At 6:53 AM -0600 11/13/06, Carol Downton wrote:
>At 05:04 PM 11/12/2006, bekah wrote:
>>T. took a gun to meet the guy from that final phone call. I
>>figured he was going to put an end to any possibility of a loop.
>
>But didn't A take a gun the first time, and T had become A.


I think you're right!  I forgot that.

Bekah

I have been gone for a month to deal with elderly parents in Fla. I
have been skimming this group and see emails about a new group being
set up.

Is this one now dead? Well, I guess if it is I won't get an answer :)

Are we all to move to some new group? Or, have I been moved since I
was subbed here already?

Thanks!

Suzz

-------------- Original message --------------
From: bekah <bekah0176@...>

At 2:29 PM -0600 11/12/06, Carol Downton wrote:
>At 01:48 PM 11/12/2006, bekah wrote:
>>Is history is
>>going to repeat itself? By his actions, T. says no.
>
>Did he? I thought maybe some sort of loop was starting, and that threw me.

T. took a gun to meet the guy from that final phone call. I
figured he was going to put an end to any possibility of a loop.

Bekah

Thanks Sivani and Sulu! I went over there and joined just now.

Suzz

----------

--- In 21stcenturyliterature@yahoogroups.com, SuLu <sulusbooks@...> wrote:
>
> Suzz,
>
> This one is still here, but since new people can't join and we can't
update
> the website, we started another one. I think most people are posting
to both
> for this transition.
>
> SuLu

I'll put up a poll with these options.

1. I want to read one story a month from the 2006 O Henry anthology.
2. I want to read one story a month from the 2003 O Henry anthology
which many already have and has not been discussed completely.
3. I want to read one story a month from another anthology (yet to be
determined).
4. I'd rather read a short story anthology as a regular monthly selection.
5. Forget the short stories for this group.
--
SuLu
Last read: Suite Française by Irene Nemirovski
Book reviews on my blog: http://7decade.blogspot.com/
   () ()
   ( '.' )
  (")_(")o

Dear 21st century-ites,

In an hour's time it will be Dec 1 here so I thought I'd jump the gun and
send a couple of sites relating to Kate Grenville and 'The secret river'.

Kate Grenville's own home page:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/kgrenville/

Interview with Kate Grenville on Australian national radio:
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/bwriting/stories/s1527708.htm

I will say up front that I'm a fan of Kate Grenville. I haven't read all her
books, much as I'd like to, but I have enjoyed what I've read ('Dreamhouse',
'Lilian's story', 'The idea of perfection' and 'The secret river'). 'The
secret river' resonated particularly with me for a number of reasons.
(Actually, 'The idea of perfection' also resonated with me - but for
different reasons).

First is the fact that I too (like Kate Grenville) am a descendant of
convicts (and I'll tell you a bit more about that as we discuss the book)
who came to Sydney in the 1790s and who farmed in the Windsor area (if/when
you read the book you'll come across that area).

Second is the fact that the book is set mostly on the Hawkesbury river - a
beautiful river I got to know quite well in my Sydney years (1966-1975) as
we lived in the northern suburbs of Sydney not far from the Hawkesbury. In
fact, one of my most memorable family holidays was when I was 17 years old
and we spent a week on the river in a 7 berth houseboat.

(If you google Hawkesbury river using the Images option, you will find some
wonderful photos and a few maps which will give you a sense of what the
river looks like. Also, there is a beautiful Australian feature film -
beautiful in terms of scenery and an interesting though not particularly
complex narrative - that came out a couple of years ago called 'The oyster
farmer'. If you want to get a sense of the beauty of the Hawkesbury, this is
the film for you)

Third is the fact that my only experience of waterskiing was at Wiseman's
Ferry, the part of the Hawkesbury where Kate Grenville's ancestor - Solomon
Wiseman - settled. It was her thinking about what Solomon might have
done/experienced that inspired her to write this book. She realised that
there is a gap in the history about what happened when he 'took up land'
that had been occupied by indigenous people. In fact, she says that when she
talked about researching this book with an indigenous friend, that friend
corrected her when she said she was researching her ancestor who 'took up
land on the Hawkesbury'. The friend corrected her and said 'you mean, he
took land'!

Just some introductory comments,

Cheers, Sue
__________________________________________________________________________

   Sue Terry                           __  /\
                                      /  \/  \
    +61  2 6248 2180 (w)             /        \
    +61  2 6286 8336 (h)            /         /
    +61  2 6248 2165 (fax)          \   __  */
                                     `-'  \_/
   sueterry@...

Œ... she had never been harried by the glamour of any possessions but books¹
(Thea Astley 'Drylands')
__________________________________________________________________________

At 06:27 AM 11/30/2006, Sue TERRY wrote:

>Dear 21st century-ites,
>
>In an hour's time it will be Dec 1 here so I thought I'd jump the gun and
>send a couple of sites relating to Kate Grenville and 'The secret river'.

I must say, this was one of the best books, from my point of view,
that I have read this year.  I just finished it a couple of days ago,
having read it in about four days.  It was wonderfully done.  I could
hardly put it down.


Carol Downton

Nashville, TN 37216
(615)228-4569
reply to: oldlawmom@...

Live free or die!

Dear 21st century-ites,

In an hour's time it will be Dec 1 here so I thought I'd jump the gun and
send a couple of sites relating to Kate Grenville and 'The secret river'.

Kate Grenville's own home page:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/kgrenville/

Interview with Kate Grenville on Australian national radio:
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/bwriting/stories/s1527708.htm

I will say up front that I'm a fan of Kate Grenville. I haven't read all her
books, much as I'd like to, but I have enjoyed what I've read ('Dreamhouse',
'Lilian's story', 'The idea of perfection' and 'The secret river'). 'The
secret river' resonated particularly with me for a number of reasons.
(Actually, 'The idea of perfection' also resonated with me - but for
different reasons).

First is the fact that I too (like Kate Grenville) am a descendant of
convicts (and I'll tell you a bit more about that as we discuss the book)
who came to Sydney in the 1790s and who farmed in the Windsor area (if/when
you read the book you'll come across that area).

Second is the fact that the book is set mostly on the Hawkesbury river - a
beautiful river I got to know quite well in my Sydney years (1966-1975) as
we lived in the northern suburbs of Sydney not far from the Hawkesbury. In
fact, one of my most memorable family holidays was when I was 17 years old
and we spent a week on the river in a 7 berth houseboat.

(If you google Hawkesbury river using the Images option, you will find some
wonderful photos and a few maps which will give you a sense of what the
river looks like. Also, there is a beautiful Australian feature film -
beautiful in terms of scenery and an interesting though not particularly
complex narrative - that came out a couple of years ago called 'The oyster
farmer'. If you want to get a sense of the beauty of the Hawkesbury, this is
the film for you)

Third is the fact that my only experience of waterskiing was at Wiseman's
Ferry, the part of the Hawkesbury where Kate Grenville's ancestor - Solomon
Wiseman - settled. It was her thinking about what Solomon might have
done/experienced that inspired her to write this book. She realised that
there is a gap in the history about what happened when he 'took up land'
that had been occupied by indigenous people. In fact, she says that when she
talked about researching this book with an indigenous friend, that friend
corrected her when she said she was researching her ancestor who 'took up
land on the Hawkesbury'. The friend corrected her and said 'you mean, he
took land'!

Just some introductory comments,

Cheers, Sue
__________________________________________________________

Sue Terry __ /\
/ \/ \
+61 2 6248 2180 (w) / \
+61 2 6286 8336 (h) / /
+61 2 6248 2165 (fax) \ __ */
`-' \_/
sueterry@grapevine.net.au

Œ... she had never been harried by the glamour of any possessions but books¹
(Thea Astley 'Drylands')
__________________________________________________________

Well what a coincidence? I lived in Sydney from 1966 to 1975 - most of my
high school and all of my university years. Our first place when we arrived
was in Roseville, but we were only there for 3 mths. The house we lived in
for the rest of the time until I left was in Wahroonga (or did I say that
already?). Presumably you went to school there ... Which one may I ask?

Anyhow, there's a good chance you saw the Hawkesbury if you went anywhere
north or north west. When you head north on the Pacific Highway up to
Gosford, Woy Woy and then to Newcastle, you cross the Hawkesbury where it is
particularly beautiful I think. It's quieter around Wiseman's Ferry - which
is why you can water ski there.

Cheers, Sue

On 2/12/06 8:04, "Lisa T." <booklisa50@...> wrote:

> I've finally gotten around to Googling the Hawkesbury River and I am realizing
> I must have visited it when I lived in Australia.  I lived in the Sydney
> suburb of Roseville, a few train stops south of Wahroonga.  And now I'm pretty
> sure I spent some time in Wiseman's Ferry but it is all so hazy.  I was 15 and
> that was 35 years ago!
>
> Lisa

__________________________________________________________________________

   Sue Terry                           __  /\
                                      /  \/  \
    +61  2 6248 2180 (w)             /        \
    +61  2 6286 8336 (h)            /         /
    +61  2 6248 2165 (fax)          \   __  */
                                     `-'  \_/
   sueterry@...

Œ... she had never been harried by the glamour of any possessions but books¹
(Thea Astley 'Drylands')
__________________________________________________________________________

Well what a coincidence? I lived in Sydney from 1966 to 1975 - most of my
high school and all of my university years. Our first place when we arrived
was in Roseville, but we were only there for 3 mths. The house we lived in
for the rest of the time until I left was in Wahroonga (or did I say that
already?). Presumably you went to school there ... Which one may I ask?

Anyhow, there's a good chance you saw the Hawkesbury if you went anywhere
north or north west. When you head north on the Pacific Highway up to
Gosford, Woy Woy and then to Newcastle, you cross the Hawkesbury where it is
particularly beautiful I think. It's quieter around Wiseman's Ferry - which
is why you can water ski there.

Cheers, Sue

On 2/12/06 8:04, "Lisa T." <booklisa50@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I've finally gotten around to Googling the Hawkesbury River and I am realizing
> I must have visited it when I lived in Australia. I lived in the Sydney
> suburb of Roseville, a few train stops south of Wahroonga. And now I'm pretty
> sure I spent some time in Wiseman's Ferry but it is all so hazy. I was 15 and
> that was 35 years ago!
>
> Lisa

__________________________________________________________

Sue Terry __ /\
/ \/ \
+61 2 6248 2180 (w) / \
+61 2 6286 8336 (h) / /
+61 2 6248 2165 (fax) \ __ */
`-' \_/
sueterry@grapevine.net.au

Œ... she had never been harried by the glamour of any possessions but books¹
(Thea Astley 'Drylands')
__________________________________________________________

Well,  I got through it a second time and found myself listening to
some parts over and over.   I walked around cleaning and doing the
laundry with my iPod and then when something interesting happened go
to the computer, listen again on iTunes  and  make a note!   Then I'd
listen on iTunes for awhile (and play games) because it's more
comfortable than the earphones and make little notes pretty easily.
Lordie,  I've never done that before with an Audible.   And I wrote
probably 6 posts with horrendous digressions and so on.
Blah-blah-blah ...

Anyway,  yes, The Secret River is a very good book (or I wouldn't
have made it all the way through the second time!)  and one which
raises a lot of interesting issues.   I knew next  to nothing about
the Aboriginal people of Australia except that they've been there a
long, long time and  had some kind of "dream-time" and "walk about,"
interesting art and music.  I was really glad that Grenville didn't
presume to tell me much about the aboriginal people.  I guess I found
out they ate wild yams and used fire to flush out the lizards and
were proficient kangaroo hunters.   They didn't wear clothing.
(Doesn't it get kind of cold sometimes? -  Eeks!)

Grenville has a really great way with words and her ability to create
what seem to me to be fully fleshed out characters while maintaining
a fine plot.   I really appreciated the way that Sal was presented
although she seemed a bit too good to be true.

Finally,  I sensed that there were some real and important themes
running through the book.   The main one I kept picking up on was how
secrets can poison a relationship.   This theme was repeated in many
situations  from the Thornhill marriage and  Blackburn's family to
the secrets kept from history.

Bekah

Thanks Lisa - I did send a repeat posting yesterday, before I heard about
this. The second posting came through pretty quickly but I don't think the
first one has appeared yet. However, now knowing the story I promise not to
repeat again!

Sue

On 27/1/07 17:41, "Lisa Hill" <gunung2@...> wrote:

> BTW Yahoo is experiencing a 20 hour delay for email postings and there is a
> huge backlog. On the Yahoo Blog site,
> http://blog.360.yahoo.com/y_groups_team?p=561 I found the following
> suggestion below about how to advise your members about it.  I have put a
> scrolling banner on my ANZLL site.
>
> Later postings are coming through before earlier ones, and they say that all
> the postings will flow through eventually so encourage people not to send
> repeat postings.
>
> Lisa in Oz
>
__________________________________________________________________________

   Sue Terry                           __  /\
                                      /  \/  \
    +61  2 6248 2180 (w)             /        \
    +61  2 6286 8336 (h)            /         /
    +61  2 6248 2165 (fax)          \   __  */
                                     `-'  \_/
   sueterry@...

'I read fiction to be freed from my own suffocatingly narrow perspective on
life¹ (Philip Roth)

__________________________________________________________________________

We are at 21stFiction in yahoo groups.

Karen, who started this group had some personal issues that got in the
way of her being here with us. We love this group so to keep it going
and make things easy on us, we moved to a new group called 21st
Fiction. When Karen gets back we are hoping she will let us know. In
the mean time, please feel free to join us there.

Our current read for March is - The Emperor's Children by Clare
Messud - April is Night Watch by Sarah Waters - May is House of
Meetings by Martin Amis - June is The Vision of Emma Blau by Ursula
Hegi - July is The Road by Cormac McCarthy

We are at 21stFiction in yahoo groups.

Karen, who started this group had some personal issues that got in the
way of her being here with us. We love this group so to keep it going
and make things easy on us, we moved to a new group called 21st
Fiction. When Karen gets back we are hoping she will let us know. In
the mean time, please feel free to join us there.

Our current read for March is - The Emperor's Children by Clare
Messud.

April is Night Watch by Sarah Waters

May is House of Meetings by Martin Amis

June is The Road by Cormac McCarthy

July is The Vision of Emma Blau by Ursula

5. Several of the novel’s female characters lived in the pre-feminist era and certainly fared poorly at the hands of men. Does the fact that she was pushing for gender equality—not to mention saving lives—justify Sarah Heath’s poor parenting skills? Would women’s rights be where they are today if it weren’t for women like her?

Hmmm...funny old questions really. Answer to the first question, though, is
no. The most important job we do, really, is parenting. It is not something
that should be entered into lightly and, if we are not prepared to take it
seriously (and this includes respecting the child as an individual not as
some creature to be made in one's own image) we shouldn't really do it. Of
course, Sarah may have been trying her best to be a good parent. She didn't
set out to be negligent or abusive, she was just , perhaps, to ideologically
bound to see that parenting is about bringing up human beings not about
pushing one's ideology.

Second question. I don't really know. Women's rights are where they are
because of strong women prepared to buck the system and fight for their
right to be there BUT that doesn't necessarily mean that all such women are
also bad parents.

Cheers, Sue

On 13/04/09 23:17 , "SuLu" <sulusbooks@...> wrote:

> 5. Several of the novel¹s female characters lived in the pre-feminist era
> and certainly fared poorly at the hands of men. Does the fact that she was
> pushing for gender equality‹not to mention saving lives‹justify Sarah
> Heath¹s poor parenting skills? Would women¹s rights be where they are today
> if it weren¹t for women like her?
>


__________________________________________________________________________

Sue Terry

+61  2 6286 8336 (h)

   sueterry@... OR
   sue.terry@...

...though the story is a fancy, it is a fancy drawn from the deepest truth.
(Richard Flanagan, Wanting)

__________________________________________________________________________