This isn't about banning religion, it's about getting the government out of the
business of funding it.

jono

--- In CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com, david danel <david_danel@...> wrote:
>
> hey Ron,
>
> are you sure this fight possibly won will mean "advancing towards secular
> society"? In our country during the communist regime which called itself "free
> of religion", "finally a totally secular society" etc. etc. they hated gays
and
> lesbians and banned their alliances probably even more than some prudent
> religious systems. I don't know about any other communist/secular states that
> were tolerant in that area. Remember the Schnabel's movie set in Cuba "Before
> Night Falls"?
>
> what's a secular society? will it ban religion?
>
> david
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "rvb_is@..." <rvb_is@...>
> To: canadianatheist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, February 24, 2011 2:16:53 PM
> Subject: [CanadianAtheist] Petition for Ottawa Separate SB
>
>
> http://www.stopthehate.ca
>
> The above is a link to a petition opposing the ban of a gay/straight student
> alliance in the Ottawa Separate School Board.  They are funded with our tax
> dollars and yet they are trying to discriminate against some of the students
in
> their very own school system.  This is unacceptable.  Please take the time to
> put an electronic signature on it.  It is one of those small battles in
> advancing towards a secular society.
>
> RonVB
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

...jono,

so should I understand it as secular society being a self-cure for many forms of
hatred? what do you say then to what I mentioned before: secular societies in
the eastern europe of the 50s-80s opressing the GL community? imprisoning,
degrading within the job system etc.?

thanks for answering

david




________________________________
From: jonovision_man <jonyahoo@...>
To: CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, February 25, 2011 12:13:51 AM
Subject: [CanadianAtheist] Re: Petition for Ottawa Separate SB



This isn't about banning religion, it's about getting the government out of the
business of funding it.


jono

--- In CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com, david danel <david_danel@...> wrote:
>
> hey Ron,
>
> are you sure this fight possibly won will mean "advancing towards secular
> society"? In our country during the communist regime which called itself "free

> of religion", "finally a totally secular society" etc. etc. they hated gays
and
>
> lesbians and banned their alliances probably even more than some prudent
> religious systems. I don't know about any other communist/secular states that
> were tolerant in that area. Remember the Schnabel's movie set in Cuba "Before
> Night Falls"?
>
> what's a secular society? will it ban religion?
>
> david
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "rvb_is@..." <rvb_is@...>
> To: canadianatheist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, February 24, 2011 2:16:53 PM
> Subject: [CanadianAtheist] Petition for Ottawa Separate SB
>
>
> http://www.stopthehate.ca
>
> The above is a link to a petition opposing the ban of a gay/straight student
> alliance in the Ottawa Separate School Board.  They are funded with our tax
> dollars and yet they are trying to discriminate against some of the students
in
>
> their very own school system.  This is unacceptable.  Please take the time to
> put an electronic signature on it.  It is one of those small battles in
> advancing towards a secular society.
>
> RonVB
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That's actually not what he jono said.  He said that government shouldn't fund
groups promoting hatred against others.  Such as the Ontario Catholic School
Board and their attitude towards a gay/straight alliance.  Nothing in there says
anything about instituting oppressive policies towards them.

Valarie

--- On Thu, 2/24/11, david danel <david_danel@...> wrote:

From: david danel <david_danel@...>
Subject: Re: [CanadianAtheist] Re: Petition for Ottawa Separate SB
To: CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com
Received: Thursday, February 24, 2011, 4:25 PM



       ...jono,



so should I understand it as secular society being a self-cure for many forms of

hatred? what do you say then to what I mentioned before: secular societies in

the eastern europe of the 50s-80s opressing the GL community? imprisoning,

degrading within the job system etc.?



thanks for answering



david



________________________________

From: jonovision_man <jonyahoo@...>

To: CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Fri, February 25, 2011 12:13:51 AM

Subject: [CanadianAtheist] Re: Petition for Ottawa Separate SB



This isn't about banning religion, it's about getting the government out of the

business of funding it.



jono



--- In CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com, david danel <david_danel@...> wrote:

>

> hey Ron,

>

> are you sure this fight possibly won will mean "advancing towards secular

> society"? In our country during the communist regime which called itself "free



> of religion", "finally a totally secular society" etc. etc. they hated gays
and

>

> lesbians and banned their alliances probably even more than some prudent

> religious systems. I don't know about any other communist/secular states that

> were tolerant in that area. Remember the Schnabel's movie set in Cuba "Before

> Night Falls"?

>

> what's a secular society? will it ban religion?

>

> david

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: "rvb_is@..." <rvb_is@...>

> To: canadianatheist@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Thu, February 24, 2011 2:16:53 PM

> Subject: [CanadianAtheist] Petition for Ottawa Separate SB

>

>

> http://www.stopthehate.ca

>

> The above is a link to a petition opposing the ban of a gay/straight student

> alliance in the Ottawa Separate School Board.  They are funded with our tax

> dollars and yet they are trying to discriminate against some of the students
in

>

> their very own school system.  This is unacceptable.  Please take the time to

> put an electronic signature on it.  It is one of those small battles in

> advancing towards a secular society.

>

> RonVB

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com, david danel <david_danel@...> wrote:
>
> ...jono,
>
> so should I understand it as secular society being a self-cure for many forms
of
> hatred?

There is no silver bullet for curing hatred, but certainly stopping the funding
of those institutions that carry it out is a step in the right direction.

>what do you say then to what I mentioned before: secular societies in
> the eastern europe of the 50s-80s opressing the GL community? imprisoning,
> degrading within the job system etc.?

Red herring - nobody here is advocating this, any more than you are advocating
for Crusades 2011.

jono

> thanks for answering
>
> david
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: jonovision_man <jonyahoo@...>
> To: CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, February 25, 2011 12:13:51 AM
> Subject: [CanadianAtheist] Re: Petition for Ottawa Separate SB
>
>
>
> This isn't about banning religion, it's about getting the government out of
the
> business of funding it.
>
>
> jono
>
> --- In CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com, david danel <david_danel@> wrote:
> >
> > hey Ron,
> >
> > are you sure this fight possibly won will mean "advancing towards secular
> > society"? In our country during the communist regime which called itself
"free
>
> > of religion", "finally a totally secular society" etc. etc. they hated gays
and
> >
> > lesbians and banned their alliances probably even more than some prudent
> > religious systems. I don't know about any other communist/secular states
that
> > were tolerant in that area. Remember the Schnabel's movie set in Cuba
"Before
> > Night Falls"?
> >
> > what's a secular society? will it ban religion?
> >
> > david
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: "rvb_is@" <rvb_is@>
> > To: canadianatheist@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thu, February 24, 2011 2:16:53 PM
> > Subject: [CanadianAtheist] Petition for Ottawa Separate SB
> >
> >
> > http://www.stopthehate.ca
> >
> > The above is a link to a petition opposing the ban of a gay/straight student
> > alliance in the Ottawa Separate School Board.  They are funded with our tax
> > dollars and yet they are trying to discriminate against some of the students
in
> >
> > their very own school system.  This is unacceptable.  Please take the time
to
> > put an electronic signature on it.  It is one of those small battles in
> > advancing towards a secular society.
> >
> > RonVB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

David, I would like to point out that the society here in Canada is very
different than the societies of eastern europe of the 50's to 80's, and i think
you are being a little rediculous trying to make a point with extreme
examples.  Our federal government wrote same-sex marriage into our
constitution.  We have free enterprise, and anyone who has an idea can try to
market it or start a company.  Anyone who so desires can run for political
office as well.  Hell, in the municipal election held in my city London Ontario
we even had a white supremist try running for mayor.  He didn't win of course,
but that I think demonstrates the freedoms we have here.  I am not advocating
the ending of religion or anything like that, but what I believe in is a
complete separation of church and state.  NO government funding of churches and
schools, NO opening prayers in our House of Commons, and the only chruches that
should be allowed tex exemptions are ones that
  do legitimate charitable work with the money they receive from their
congregation.  It is up to churches and families to teach their religion.  it
is up to our government to protect its citizens from discrimination.  Not for
them to fund it.
 
RonVB

--- On Fri, 2/25/11, jonovision_man <jonyahoo@...> wrote:


From: jonovision_man <jonyahoo@...>
Subject: [CanadianAtheist] Re: Petition for Ottawa Separate SB
To: CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com
Received: Friday, February 25, 2011, 5:32 AM


 





--- In CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com, david danel <david_danel@...> wrote:
>
> ...jono,
>
> so should I understand it as secular society being a self-cure for many forms
of
> hatred?

There is no silver bullet for curing hatred, but certainly stopping the funding
of those institutions that carry it out is a step in the right direction.

>what do you say then to what I mentioned before: secular societies in
> the eastern europe of the 50s-80s opressing the GL community? imprisoning,
> degrading within the job system etc.?

Red herring - nobody here is advocating this, any more than you are advocating
for Crusades 2011.

jono

> thanks for answering
>
> david
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: jonovision_man <jonyahoo@...>
> To: CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, February 25, 2011 12:13:51 AM
> Subject: [CanadianAtheist] Re: Petition for Ottawa Separate SB
>
>
>
> This isn't about banning religion, it's about getting the government out of
the
> business of funding it.
>
>
> jono
>
> --- In CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com, david danel <david_danel@> wrote:
> >
> > hey Ron,
> >
> > are you sure this fight possibly won will mean "advancing towards secular
> > society"? In our country during the communist regime which called itself
"free
>
> > of religion", "finally a totally secular society" etc. etc. they hated gays
and
> >
> > lesbians and banned their alliances probably even more than some prudent
> > religious systems. I don't know about any other communist/secular states
that
> > were tolerant in that area. Remember the Schnabel's movie set in Cuba
"Before
> > Night Falls"?
> >
> > what's a secular society? will it ban religion?
> >
> > david
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: "rvb_is@" <rvb_is@>
> > To: canadianatheist@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thu, February 24, 2011 2:16:53 PM
> > Subject: [CanadianAtheist] Petition for Ottawa Separate SB
> >
> >
> > http://www.stopthehate.ca
> >
> > The above is a link to a petition opposing the ban of a gay/straight student
> > alliance in the Ottawa Separate School Board. They are funded with our tax
> > dollars and yet they are trying to discriminate against some of the students
in
> >
> > their very own school system. This is unacceptable. Please take the time to
> > put an electronic signature on it. It is one of those small battles in
> > advancing towards a secular society.
> >
> > RonVB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Posted by: "Valarie" grasleyv@...   grasleyv
on Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:31 pm (PST)

That's actually not what he jono said. He said that government shouldn't
fund groups promoting hatred against others. Such as the Ontario Catholic
School Board and their attitude towards a gay/straight alliance. Nothing in
there says anything about instituting oppressive policies towards them.

Valarie

--- On Thu, 2/24/11, david danel <david_danel@...> wrote:

From: david danel <david_danel@...>
Subject: Re: [CanadianAtheist] Re: Petition for Ottawa Separate SB
To: CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com
Received: Thursday, February 24, 2011, 4:25 PM


...jono,
-----------------------------
Comment from Ernie Schreiber:
This is like saddling the horse backwards.  Outlawing religious
superstitions is obviously counterproductive.  Experience has shown that by
outlawing something that has a large following (justified or not) simply
makes it more attractive to the "secret society" syndrome.  That should
never be the target.  What we have to support and enforce is the cold, hard
fact that religion is just another gamble with the desire to live in eternal
bliss after death.  It's like outlawing lotteries.  Before gambling was made
legal in Canada,  the "Irish Sweepstakes" was the "in" thing, and the
Mafia-controlled numbers racket.  Now that gambling is legal, financial
experts have calculated that the gambler's chances of winning are far more
remote than they were when it was controlled by the Mafia.  The government
has replaced the Mafia and government now pockets most of the loot.

What our aim should be is to establish a level playing field.  Rather than
outlawing religion it should be classified as a "for profit" business (which
it is) except for its charitable activities (soup kitchens, etc).   It
should be taxed like any other business and it should have no greater
influence on government and lawmaking than any other corporate business.
Needless to say that corporations have far too much influence on government
as it is and safeguards are required here, in law, to prevent government
control (or control of the election process) through the money tap by rich
corporations.  One just has to look what goes on in the US of A with rigged
elections and corporate money controlling who can run in elections and thus
limiting the choices of the electors to a few that are almost all in the
pocket of the corporations.  All that just requires some good, thorough
pragmatic thinking.

There will always be enough ignorant people who fall for the snake oil
salesmen of religion.  That just happens to be so, if we like it or not.
What we have to watch out for is, that we must guard against those fringe
elements to gain power over all of us.  Secularity and education is the only
solution.

Regards,
H. E. (Ernie) Schreiber
EUNACOM Secular Journal: http://eunacom.net
Discussion List Server at: <eunacom@yahoogroups.com>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In Facebook Swami Manavatavadi wrote to Shelley MoMelly:

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1666777876

Noble Mrs. Shelley,
Humblest Greetings.

Would you please write about your health?

I am in Exile since January 25, 2011 to avoid a plotting to arrest me and kill
me in the custody by the Brahmins, the state/police and a Hindu hardliner
reformist cult Arya Samaj. The Chief Minister of Haryana State (my town
Kurukshetra is in this state) also of this cult.

Expecting you in good health and high spirits I remain awaiting to listen from
you.

Cordially,
Swamiji
February 26 at 2:39pm
======================
Shelley MoMelly wrote:
your situation sounds desperate my friend. i hope you move somewhere where they
don't know you and won't arrest you. what are you wanted for anyway? why would
they want to kill a humble teacher of children?
February 26 at 11:17pm
===================
Swami Manavatavadi wrote:

Noble Shelley,
Humblest Greetings.

Many thanks for your kindest response.

Humbleness and services keep no meaning to the religious fanatics. I live in a
triply religious town Kurukshetra holy for Hindus, Sikhs and a hardliner Hindu
Reformist Groups ARYA SAMAJ CULT. As a nonbelieving freethinker I am declared
unqualified to live in this town and give secular education to children. The
Politicians belonging to these religious denominations as pickpockets in the
Indian trains always try to search one or other locunas so that they can
eliminate us by arresting and killing me and by officially declaring that I have
suicided because of insult becaue once the Haryana State Governor House has
declared me as: "Swami Manavatavadi is an Internationally Reputed Person".

They want me either I should suicide or they would kill me and declare it as a
suicide.

Cordially,
Swamiji
Sunday at 8:21pm
=======================
Shelley MoMelly wrote:

i now you did a LOT of traveling when you were a kid. why don't you just leave
and go someplace where they are more tolerant friend swami ji?
Monday at 1:48am
==================
Swami Manavatavadi wrote:

Noble Shelley,
Humblest Greetings.

So kind of you for your kindest suggestion. You are very right. I should leave
this religious town and chose to live where the civilized world ends and where
the people or the inhabitants have not got educated with dominion, competition,
jealousy, possessiveness, cruelty, insanity and so on. I must need to search a
place where such civilized people don't live.

To my mind tolerance is a very personal character. It may not be a character of
folks or communities or of any mass. Only the amount and . intensity of
tolerance may vary. Ofcourse the religious people especially the clergies and
religious teachers are most of the times unreasonable, cruel, insane and
intolerant in character. Religions are spread everywehere and the clerrics are
always respectable persons among the followers.

Ruling and religions are allies in most part of the word where the people dwell.

Still I should search a place and probably I am doing that. I don't know If I
can be successful or would remain a fool always in this wise people's world.

Cordially,
Swamiji
Monday at 6:48pm
=====================
Shelley MoMelly wrote:

the thought that hindu's are vegitarians because they will not kill has always
made me think of hindus as a gentle people. my husband for instance will not
even kill a bug unless i ask him to GET THAT COCK ROACH! i scream and cry when
they are in the room so he kills them for me but he hates doing it. so this
story you are telling me about religious leadership wanting to kill you is very
incongruous with all i've ever learned about hinduism. i'm very bothered by your
story and i hope you leave this demon filled place you are in and find truly
spiritual and loving people elsewhere who desire for their children to speak
english because your english is very good.
Yesterday at 12:45am
=================
Swami Manavatavadi wrote:

Noble Shelley,
Humblest Greetings.

Many thanks for your kindest comments and expectations.

You are very true that Indian thought process tempt people to remain kind for
all even to insects. But Hindu as a new religion which evolved in the 8th
century AD began with cruelty and oppressing branches of thoughts and practices
like Buddhists and Jainas making it more priestly and Brahminical. The common
mass is still tolerant and kind but the priestly people have the extra ordinary
rousing capabilities by declaring any person or group as demoniacal in the terms
of RAVANA of epic RAMAYANA and KAMSA of epic MAHABHARATA and convincing people
that killing of these demons RAVANA and KAMSA are good, ethical and spiritually
rich works.

My time is over now with this computer shop and I may come tomorrow . May kindly
send all these messages on my wall so that all other friends there can see your
kind comments and my replies.

Expecting you and your kind partner in good health and high spirits I remain.

Cordially,
Swamiji
22 hours ago
====================
Shelley MoMelly wrote;

i hope you find your way sweet swamiji.
18 hours ago
===============
Swami Manavatavadi wrote:

Many thanks to you Noble Shelley for your morale supporting message. Let us hope
the best. But only the Religious Leaders and the Political leaders in collusion
know what they want to do and what result they want to produce. Their god/s are
also omnipotent and can do everything possible.

While travelling in Indian Railway trains every body remains aware that there
may be pickpockets near by and they may steal your money. Despite of all
awareness of the passengers some people lose their pockets and at last the
pickpockets win the bet.

The criminals are always organized and clever to make their criminal plan get
done. Their every failure train them to be more cautious and tactful in the next
trial and after all the criminal wins the bet.

Socrates is to die may bravely or with scare or cowardice. Let us see what comes
out. Our well wishers strongly insist my stay out from our hut.

It is a good game of hide and seek between the hound and the rabbit. I don't
know how long the rabbit would survive from being hunted by the hungry fierce
hound. Let us wait and observe. May your wishes come true. Many thanks to you.
2 seconds ago

Just a short note that the Aljazeera English language television channel
located in Qatar can be accessed through the computer via the Internet world
television network.  They do offer some interesting views, also with the
Libyan problem, that seem to be more thorough than what one gets from the
usual local news services.  There are two links below that you may use:

1)   http://english.aljazzera.net/

and

2)   http://wwitv.com/tv_channels/b3554.htm

The first once gives access to the aljazzera web-site with some live
streaming and a selection of archived programs and/or news items that can be
accessed.  The second one provides a direct link to the Qatar aljazera
channel with live streaming via the world Internet television service (itv)
which allows access to television on a world-wide basis (I use it to watch
my former home-town television programs from Germany when I'm on a
nostalgia-trip).

I don't know if every user can access these URLs.  It may depend on the
service that one is subscribed to.  I am somewhat fortunate that I live in a
large city, not far away from a Bell switching centre, and I subscribe to
the Bell high speed broadband service.  It may perhaps be somewhat more
problematic in remote rural areas or with any dial-up service.

Just thought others might be interested.  If not, please just ignore it...

Regards,
H. E. (Ernie) Schreiber
EUNACOM Secular Journal: http://eunacom.net
Discussion List Server at: <eunacom@yahoogroups.com>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

CORRECTION:
Sorry about a typo in my original posting on this matter.  The first link
should have been as follows:

http://english.aljazeera.net/

My posting missed the second "e" in aljazeera.  My apologies.

Regards,
H. E. (Ernie) Schreiber
EUNACOM Secular Journal: http://eunacom.net
Discussion List Server at: <eunacom@yahoogroups.com>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Recently I've decided I simply cannot sing the Canadian national anthem in its
current form. "God keep our land glorious and free" is meaningless to me. How is
a non-existent being supposed to do anything for our country? I now sing that
line at "We'll keep our land glorious and free."

If it is to be, it's up to us, right? Let us take responsibility for a nation
that is glorious and free. And that would include freedom from having to express
any need for a deity.

Do you proudly sing the national anthem at events? If so, do you retain the 'G'
word?

Posted by: "DerekB" blyderek@...   blyderek
on Sat Mar 5, 2011 8:49 am (PST)

Recently I've decided I simply cannot sing the Canadian national anthem in
its current form. "God keep our land glorious and free" is meaningless to
me. How is a non-existent being supposed to do anything for our country? I
now sing that line at "We'll keep our land glorious and free."

If it is to be, it's up to us, right? Let us take responsibility for a
nation that is glorious and free. And that would include freedom from having
to express any need for a deity.

Do you proudly sing the national anthem at events? If so, do you retain the
'G' word?
---------------------------
Comment from Ernie Schreiber:
I can't sing worth a timker's damn.  So, at best, I hum along; no problem
with "God".  Sounds all the same in a hum...
Regards,
H. E. (Ernie) Schreiber
EUNACOM Secular Journal: http://eunacom.net
Discussion List Server at: <eunacom@yahoogroups.com>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I do proudly sing the national anthem, sometimes I just skip that part.  It's
no real difference to me.  I find it just as meaningless as "all thy sons
command" (ad a girl, I don't think that counts for me).

Valarie


--- On Sun, 3/6/11, Ernie Schreiber <eunacom@...> wrote:

From: Ernie Schreiber <eunacom@...>
Subject: [CanadianAtheist] Canadian national anthem
To: CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com
Received: Sunday, March 6, 2011, 7:56 AM

   
     
     
      Posted by: "DerekB" blyderek@...   blyderek

on Sat Mar 5, 2011 8:49 am (PST)



Recently I've decided I simply cannot sing the Canadian national anthem in

its current form. "God keep our land glorious and free" is meaningless to

me. How is a non-existent being supposed to do anything for our country? I

now sing that line at "We'll keep our land glorious and free."



If it is to be, it's up to us, right? Let us take responsibility for a

nation that is glorious and free. And that would include freedom from having

to express any need for a deity.



Do you proudly sing the national anthem at events? If so, do you retain the

'G' word?

---------------------------

Comment from Ernie Schreiber:

I can't sing worth a timker's damn.  So, at best, I hum along; no problem

with "God".  Sounds all the same in a hum...

Regards,

H. E. (Ernie) Schreiber

EUNACOM Secular Journal: http://eunacom.net

Discussion List Server at: <eunacom@yahoogroups.com>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





   
     

   
   






 

HUMBLE INVITATION TO PARTICIPATE IN "CELEBRATING DEDICATION TO CHILDREN"
======================================

	 KIDS' KINGDOM
THE INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL OF
HUMANITARIAN THOUGHTS AND PRACTICE
(MANAVATAVADI VISHWA SANSTHAN)
Rajghat, KURUKSHETRA-136118, Haryana, INDIA
Tel/FAX: +91-(0)1744-291278/291378
Originator/Director: SWAMI MANAVATAVADI
Listserve: MANAVATAVADI-GROUP-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=134271193259904
E-mail: manavatavadi@...,  manavatavadi@...,
swamiji@..., manavata@...
Web: www.iheu.org/node/1439, www.iheu.org/node/2557
March 8, 2011

Subject:  HUMBLE INVITATION TO PARTICIPATE.

Noble All Here,
Humblest Greetings.

We, the Associates, 105 previous street children with other privileged children,
sympathizers from all over and parents of both privileged homes and slums, do
most humbly feel our pleasure to extend our heartiest Invitation to you to
kindly participate (either in person or in proxy) in this poor, ever-persecuted,
deprived, obviously betrayed and humiliated Institution's Traditional Annual
Function, "CELEBRATING DEDICATION TO CHILDREN" on Sunday, March 13, 2011  to
observe our innovative applications on Child Psychology on the basis of the long
forgotten sage of probably 4000 B.C., MAHARSHI DHAUMYA and to encourage the
morale of our children, their parents, all associates and sympathizers to
continue this well-praised endeavors despite of perpetually never ended thrusted
adversities.

The tentative programe is sited as under: (Sunday the March 13, 2011)

1. SECULAR DHYANA YOGA TRAINING 6-00 a.m. to 7-00 a.m.
	 (Systems: VIRECHANA, PRATI-ROPANA & SAMSTHAPANA)
2. Question-Answer Session on DHYANA YOGA 7-00 a.m. to 8-00 a.m.
3. De-Addiction and SMART Recovery Camp 9-00 a.m. to 10-00a.m.
"CELEBRATING DEDICATION TO CHILDREN"
4. Traditional Folk Songs by Rural Sympathizers 9-00 a.m.
5. Messages Through Children's Expression   10-30 a.m.
6. Presenting Pre-Arranged Gifts of Study Kits and
	 Mementoes t+o our Children through the Guests
7. Children's Problems for the Parents and the Society
and the Problems the Children do pass through : Swami Manavatavadi
8. Questions Answered (Preferably Written)
9. The Guests' Views
10. Thanks By Deviji (Sadhvi Asha Manav)
11. Country Style Communal Feast at the End    12-00 Noon

Expecting your kindest Anticipation we remain thanking you All.

Cordially,
Swami Manavatavadi

The article copied below is an interesting read.  What do you think?



Religion faces extinction in Canada, study finds
[Ottawa Citizen, March 23, 2011, page A4]

  Religion may be on the road to extinction in Canada — mathematically
speaking, that is.

Travelling with us are Australia, Austria, the Czech Republic, Finland,
Ireland, the Netherlands, New Zealand and Switzerland.

A study presented Tuesday at the American Physical Society meeting in Dallas
noted a steady rise in the percentage of those countries' residents who
claim no religious affiliation, and explained how social factors could help
push religion toward the dustbin of history.

Richard Weiner, a University of Arizona researcher and one of the study's
authors, explained the formula's conclusions.

"There'll be a continuing loss of membership among people that identify
themselves as belonging to a religion. Over time, we could reach a time
where society is dominated by people who claim religious non-affiliation,"
he said.

The study attempted to link these countries' religious identities with the
social motives behind belonging to particular groups. Researchers said that
as the masses who claim religious non-affiliation swell, it becomes more
appealing to join the ranks of that group.

"The model predicts that for societies in which the perceived utility of not
adhering is greater than the utility of adhering, religion will be driven
toward extinction," the study said.

"We tried to quantify . . . that the perceived utility of non-affiliation is
greater than the perceived utility of belonging to a religion," added
Weiner. "That effect is enough to start driving people to the group that's
non-affiliated, and then as more people become non-affiliated, that makes
the group more attractive."

Weiner speculated that social pressures are contributing to the decline in
religious identification in these countries. "People no longer see the slate
of benefits as being as great as they probably did 100 years ago. It's
become less socially useful."

Daniel Abrams, one of the study's co-authors, used a similar model in 2003
to predict the decline of the world's lesser-spoken languages.

A 2006 Statistics Canada report noted that 16 per cent of Canadians reported
no religious affiliation in 2001, up from four per cent 30 years earlier.
However, young Canadians are even less religious, with close to half of
15-29 year olds claiming no religious identity in 2004.

In the Netherlands, where close to 50 per cent of the population identifies
as not belonging to a religion, Weiner said they found that by mid-century
close to 70 per cent of the country will be made up of non-believers.

"That's very substantial growth over four decades," Weiner said. "It's not
saying that religion will not exist, but it will very strongly change the
makeup of society. Maybe in 100 years in some of these countries if this
trend continues, there will be a very small percentage of people that still
identify themselves as belonging to a religion."

However, University of Ottawa sociologist Diane Pacom cautioned against
writing off religion as a part of Canada's culture.

"Even if Canadians say (their affiliation) to their friends, publicly they
won't say it because it's not cool," she said.

Pacom added that religion's role in society is hard to capture, as
traditionally religious activities like weddings are still commonly
practiced — even without the religious meaning it once had.

"Religion may not be seen as a practice, but as a way of living it's still
very present. No mathematical formula can catch that," she said.

fappleyard@...

© Copyright (c) Postmedia News

-------------------------

End of article.  Have you heard of anything similar at your location?



Regards,

H. E. (Ernie) Schreiber
EUNACOM Secular Journal: http://eunacom.net
Discussion List Server at: <eunacom@yahoogroups.com>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"The team took those percentages and applied the nonlinear dynamics model they
created, with parameters adjusted for the merits of membership in a
non-religious category. The theory behind this non-affiliation increase boils
down to something similar to social networking. Groups with larger numbers and
more members offer more attraction to be a part of. The bigger a group, the more
members they are able to draw in."

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-03-religion-verge-extinction-countries.html

Great way to make it understandable to common people like me :-)

I take it that the main religions are overtaken by the church of Facebook etc.

Dan Roper

This site looks like a promising way to make your vote count, even
if you don't think it will.

	 http://www.votepair.ca/

    The idea is to get matched to someone who's willing to swap votes
with you, in order to improve both your chances at getting your
preferred candidate elected. From the site:


You should pair vote if either:
- You want to keep a political party from winning.
- You don't feel that there is any point in voting for whom you want,
as the candidate or party has no chance of getting elected.
- You are tired of your vote not being represented in Parliament.


    Looks good to me. Spread the word!


Michael

As a small-c conservative atheist, the only vote that make sense is (somewhat
unfortunately) the Conservative party... this seems like a tool more suited to
the left-of-center.

jono

--- In CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dunn <md@...> wrote:
>
>    This site looks like a promising way to make your vote count, even
> if you don't think it will.
>
>  http://www.votepair.ca/
>
>    The idea is to get matched to someone who's willing to swap votes
> with you, in order to improve both your chances at getting your
> preferred candidate elected. From the site:
>
>
> You should pair vote if either:
> - You want to keep a political party from winning.
> - You don't feel that there is any point in voting for whom you want,
> as the candidate or party has no chance of getting elected.
> - You are tired of your vote not being represented in Parliament.
>
>
>    Looks good to me. Spread the word!
>
>
> Michael
>

Started the day with chocolate bunnies and an easter egg hunt for the kids,
ending it with turkey and paska (Ukrainian tradition).

Jesus who? ;)  Kids don't know/care, they're more interested in such questions
as "how did the Easter Bunny hide an egg so high?".

As a parent, I suspect (but thus far cannot prove) that there is more harm
trying to fight against tradition than rolling with it.  Why deny a child the
fun of the non-Christian aspects of a holiday, when they are entirely compatible
with a lack of a deity?

IMO.  Happy (atheist) Easter! :)

jono

Not exactly atheism-related, but how does one react when a local
library has/publicizes talks about astrology and homeopathy...? I'm
"writing a letter". Whoopee!


Michael

If it's a public library, nothing.  A public library has an obligation to
provide programs that are of interest to every member of the public.  To not do
so is pretty well censorship.

Valarie (a librarian)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 5:36 PM -0700 4/26/11, Valarie wrote:
>If it's a public library, nothing. A public library has an obligation to
>provide programs that are of interest to every member of the public.

    So, they should allow me to do the UFO, moon landing fakes, and
9-11 conspiracy talks I now want to give?


>To not do
>so is pretty well censorship.
>
>Valarie (a librarian)

You can try.  I don't know what the scheduling and meeting space rental policies
are like.  As a public institution, it has to try to fill the needs of the
public, even if you think those needs are stupid.

Valarie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"The Christian resolve to find the world evil and ugly, has made the world evil
and ugly." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

The following was posted by: "ram puniyani" ram.puniyani@...
on Sat May 7, 2011 10:45 am (PDT)
*Obama, Osama and Politics of Oil Hunger*

*Ram Puniyani*

The military operation (May 2nd 2011) which killed Osama bin Laden has
raised many questions related to the deeper truths of the phenomenon of Al
Qaeda, Terrorism and role of US in the region. What is obvious is that US in
a neat military operation violated the air space of Pakistan; with the help
of highly trained commandoes killed Osama bin Laden, the most dreaded name
in the annals of terrorism, the chief of Al Qaeda. Barrack Husain Obama is
in the seventh heaven for achieving a feat which US intelligence claims it
was trying from many years and finally has succeeded. Obama has all the
reasons to be happy as now after garnering the Noble Price for Peace he has
shaped himself as the one who looks ‘strong’ and can annihilate the
‘enemies’. It should surely improve his electoral ratings.

Pakistan authorities have been caught in a strange situation. They have been
claiming that Osama is not living in Pakistan; there are no terrorists in
Pakistan etc. In this backdrop, lo and behold, Osama is found at the walking
distance of the famous military academy of Pakistan. Pakistan as a state has
been humiliated by the mighty US. US violated Pakistan’s sovereignty. US did
not inform Pakistan about the military operation which it undertook on
Pakistan’s land. On the top of that US is refusing to apologize for this
violation of Pakistan’s air space, for using its military in another
country. Now fears are rife that US may do similar things to wipe out
Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal. Due to Pakistan’s lie about Osama’s living in
Pakistan, there are voices calling for declaring Pakistan as a terrorist
state. Indian army Chief is telling loud and clear that Indian armed forces
are also competent to undertake such an operation.

In the whole spectacle created around the death of Osama bin Laden, some
deeper truth is being further hidden from the public eye. The fact that
truth is a multilayered phenomenon is being ignored and the whole game of
United States in first helping the creation of Al Qaeda, supporting Osama
bin Laden with money and armaments to join the anti Russian forces is
practically being pushed under the carpet. While Pakistan has to take the
blame for ‘housing’ Osama, the deeper fact is that Pakistan army and ISI had
mostly been hands in glove with the US policies for control over the oil
wealth of the region.

Just a few decades ago, during cold war, Communism was projected as the
enemy No One by United States and its minions. US policies aimed at
conquering the World economically, politically and also militarily where
possible. Socialist block was a big obstacle for US ambition. Around this
time Russian army occupies Afghanistan, and supports Afghan Communist
regimes’ efforts to bring in land reforms. Russian move brings in a reaction
in the form of US promoting a radical version of Islam. That was
incidentally also the time when the US army was demoralized due to its
defeat at the hands of Vietnamese people struggling to establish their own
nationalism. To counter the Soviet presence in the area, US played a clever
political trick. It resorted to encouraging and supporting the militant
version of Islam. US-CIA helped set up Madrassas in Pakistan through the
ISI. These Madrassas distorted the Islamic words Jihad and Kafir. A syllabus
was developed in Washington to brainwash the Asian Muslim youth on to the
path of terrorism. Osama, a Saudi Arabian Civil engineer was supported to
take the lead of Al Qaeda and rest is by now too well known.

While we know the doings of Al Qaeda, its terror acts in the region,
Pakistan, India both, not much is thought of the fact that at a time it was
US and its alliance with Pakistan army and ISI that the cancerous seeds of
this terrorist organization were sowed. An arrangement was struck whereby
weapons were brought in the ships, which were not to be checked at the
ports, and straight given to the Al Qaeda, which was in the good books of US
at that time. One recalls an interesting statement by the one of the
previous US Presidents, Ronald Reagan. While introducing the elements from
Al Qaeda, who were on a visit to the White house in 1985, Regan told the
puzzled media persons that the strange looking persons; gentlemen “... are
the moral equivalents of America's founding fathers." (Ronald Regan while
introducing the Mujahedeen leaders to media on the White house lawns.
(1985).
It was a time when these characters were fighting the US war in Afghanistan,
the US war for balance of power and for the hegemony in the oil rich area.

After the gulf war 1991, in which Iraq was cornered by US, and after many
other Muslim countries were mauled by US, the Al Qaeda outfits turned
against its own creator, the United States. They started calling it ‘The
Great Satan” and poured venom against the US. Meanwhile Pakistan was under
the grip of military dictatorship of different Generals, who were thick as
thieves with the Maulanas and were constantly being guided by US through its
Ambassador based in Pakistan. Pakistan Military and ISI, for a price, played
the role of an assistant cum errand boy for the US policies in the area. The
situation starting changing after 9/11, when the World Trade Center was
attacked and nearly 3000 people from different countries and belonging too
many religions were killed. After this US media manufactured a new word in
the dictionary of terrorism. US media linked Islam with terrorism and word
Islamic-Terrorism was coined which became the buzz word picked by the media
all over the World. With this came the theory of ‘Clash of Civilizations’,
the guiding principle of US foreign policy.

This theory in nutshell stated that the ‘backward Islamic civilization’ is
out to attack the advanced Western Civilization. Gorge W. Bush used the word
Crusade as his cover for attacking Afghanistan and outlined this thesis of
Clash of Civilization in simple words, “Americans are asking: why do they
hate us? They hate our freedoms-our freedom of religion, our freedom of
speech, our freedom to vote and assemble and disagree with each
other."(George W. Bush, in his speech in US Congress in the aftermath of
9/11, 2001)

This thesis demonized the Muslims of the World to no end. With the efforts
for democratic revolutions in Tunisia, Egypt and other Arab countries, many
a biases created deliberately against Islam and Muslims are collapsing. US
now wants to change the slogan which can continue its project to hegemonize
the World. ‘Exporting Democracy’ may be one such slogan, which will give the
legitimiacy to its global military domination. Pakistan military regime
which served the US interests so compliantly for so many years has been
partly overtaken by civilian Government in Pakistan, which in turn is trying
to bring semblance of democracy, trying to release the Pakistani society
from the shackles of Military-Mullah complex. This is coinciding with the
change in US policy. Now probably US no longer needs the services of
Pakistan Military ISI, so an open criticism of Pakistan after promoting it
for decades. Pakistan leadership needs to introspect about the future of the
people, as to how to escape the vice like grip of US domination and develop
the nation in alliance with regional forces. US-Pakistan relations should be
a lesson to others also. How US is capable of using the regimes and then
abandoning them after depleting them of their self respect, is abundantly
clear in this story. Other nations trying to dine in White House need a
relook at the suicidal path being adopted by them.

------------------------------
Comment from Ernie Schreiber:
This is an interesting view coming from the East.  This is politics (not
much to do with atheism); however, it points to the real dangers the USA is
getting involved in when engaging with a nuclear power that could well play
havoc over the entire world and threaten all our lives.

Regards,
H. E. (Ernie) Schreiber
EUNACOM Secular Journal: http://eunacom.net
Discussion List Server at: <eunacom@yahoogroups.com>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alcoholics Anonymous delists two secular AA groups:

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1002750--fight-over-god-splits-toronto-aa-gr\
oups?bn=1

Some pretty typical religious nonsense in there...

"If you don't believe in any power greater than yourself, you are on your own."

"You need to believe in something higher than yourself. Our self got us drunk."

etc!

Disgusting, IMO.  These groups were separate entities that didn't change the
religious bent of the others, but were at least part of the AA umbrella.  I
assume they will continue separately, but it will make it more difficult for
athesists/agnostics/non-Christians to find help.

jono

The following was posted by: "jonovision_man" jonyahoo@...
jonovision_man
on Sat Jun 4, 2011 5:33 am (PDT)

Alcoholics Anonymous delists two secular AA groups:

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1002750--fight-over-god-splits-toronto-aa-gr\
oups?bn=1

Some pretty typical religious nonsense in there...

"If you don't believe in any power greater than yourself, you are on your
own."

"You need to believe in something higher than yourself. Our self got us
drunk."

etc!

Disgusting, IMO. These groups were separate entities that didn't change the
religious bent of the others, but were at least part of the AA umbrella. I
assume they will continue separately, but it will make it more difficult for
athesists/agnostics/non-Christians to find help.

jono
--------------------
Question from Ernie Schreiber:
I never had any occasion to join any "cure of alcoholism" group; however, I
am wondering what this "delisting" of secular AA groups means.  From what I
read, this will exclude the secular groups from being listed in the AA
directory.  Is that an important item?  If it means that secular groups can
no longer be contacted, that would be a reason for a law-suit for
discrimination on the grounds of religion.  But secular AA groups are,
surely, listed somewhere.  What's the situation?  I know of the American
Group ("Secular Sobriety" or something like that) but I haven't seen it
advertised in Free Inquiry. How do they get recognized? Just asking.  The AA
groups wants to instill a feeling of powerlessness of the individual in
overcoming an addiction which then means that a "higher power" or some "god"
must be relied upon.  That is self-defeating.  Belief in one's own personal
abilities and willpower ought to be instilled in the addict if he/she is to
be cured.
Regards,
H. E. (Ernie) Schreiber
EUNACOM Secular Journal: http://eunacom.net
Discussion List Server at: <eunacom@yahoogroups.com>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If this pic doesn't come through let me know and i will post it to the group.


RonVB



Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on Rogers

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Take that and dispute it:
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/216596_10150230192374276_59527927\
5_8545086_2474506_n.jpg

Enjoy,   Dicoll  ;-)

I guess the person(s) who made that image have never heard of the hydrologic
cycle.  I think I learned about it in public school, then more so in high
school, then more so in university.

Thank Zeus I got an education!!

--- In CanadianAtheist@yahoogroups.com, "dicoll3000" <dicoll@...> wrote:
>
> Take that and dispute it:
>
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/216596_10150230192374276_59527927\
5_8545086_2474506_n.jpg
>
> Enjoy,   Dicoll  ;-)
>

This was posted by: "dicoll3000" dicoll@...   dicoll3000
on Thu Jun 9, 2011 6:56 am (PDT)


Take that and dispute it:
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/216596_10150230192374276_59527927\
5_8545086_2474506_n.jpg

Enjoy, Dicoll ;-)
------------------------
Comment from Ernie Schreiber:
The figures provided are disputable.  Besides, we are not "using" up the
water, we are simply recycling it.

Nice try.

Regards,
H. E. (Ernie) Schreiber
EUNACOM Secular Journal: http://eunacom.net
Discussion List Server at: <eunacom@yahoogroups.com>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]