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-LIST RULES-

In order to make Colombia Experts a useful and friendly place to talk about
beautiful Colombia, the guidelines below have been established. They are just
guidelines though and the moderators will be more or less flexible depending on
circumstance.

A. Basic Principles

1. No rudeness, name-calling, ad hominem attacks or personal attacks.

2. Only on-topic posts, which means anything about Colombia. No posts that start
talking about Colombia and then talk about something else off-topic.

3. Advertising of *any* form, including the promotion of your own group or list
must be cleared with the moderators first.  This is a basic courtesy and we will
almost always say yes.

4. Personal messages, relevant only to one or a few people on the list, must be
sent off-list. One-word or one-sentence or otherwise unsubstantial messages
decrease the signal-to-noise ratio and are therefore not welcome on the list.

5. No spam, commercial messages, closed-minded hate-filled diatribes that lack
cultural understanding, etc.

B. List Etiquette

1. Please post a self-intro to the list so we can get to know each other better.

2. Please trim your messages of unnecessary text, marketing junk, signatures and
anything else not relevant to your post. Please don't include more than one
previous posting in your postings to the list. This makes it easier for everyone
to participate and averts bandwidth-waste.

3. Please put your comments above any quoted text that you might be replying to
and please do not mix your words with those of the person you are replying to.
This creates confusion and results in people not reading your message.

C. Penalties

Penalties will be enforced and will generally start minor and become serious if
there are repeated offenses, according to the following scale: a warning, being
set to moderated status, suspension of posting privileges, removal from the
list, banning.

Commercial messages, including spam will result in banning. Sustained
abusiveness, repeated personal attacks, stalking and other nasty stuff will
result in banning.


  -FAQ-

1: What is an "off-topic post"?

A post that has nothing (or very little) to do with Colombia. People subscribe
to this list to talk about Colombia, so anything off-topic just irritates people
and reduces the fun.

2: What should I NEVER do?

Ask: "Is Colombia dangerous?" without any clarification, or ask where you can
find Colombian women, or talk disrespectfully to people.

3. Why is that some posts immediately get through to the list but others are
held back?

Sometimes its a technical problems. But usually messages get held back because
the poster has been to set to Moderated Status. This happens when a member has
repeatedly and wantonly broken the list rules.

4: What is "the site"?

The website about Colombia that Peter, the person who started this mailing list,
made. You can find it at http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/.

Thanks for your cooperation!

Ian Worthington (originally George Donnelly)
Moderator
ColombiaExperts-owner@YahooGroups.com


Here's a start for a new, more comprehensive FAQ.  Feel free to add items as
you wish.  Items here have generally be garnered from messages on the list. If
you object to yours being used here, please let me know and I'll delete it.

Treat it as a work in progress...  Any comments, please let me know.

Ian
...

Index:

Q. Is Colombia dangerous?
Q. Where can I meet attractive Colombian women?
Q. What's the rate of exchange?
Q. I'm in Bogotá.  Where can I learn to dance salsa, merengue, etc.?
Q. Where do I go in London to find a good bar/nightclub with a Colombian
    atmosphere? Can you recommend any bars which play the music? People have
    mentioned Unicornio before, where is it?
Q: How can I get to see the Cuidad Perdida?
Q: How do I call to Colombia (inc cellphones)?
Q: Will my GSM/TDMA/CSMA/... cellular phone work in Colombia?
Q: What's the best way to post stuff to/from Colombia?



Q. Is Colombia dangerous?
A. Yes. As are parts of NYC, LA, DC, London, Northern Ireland, ...

An important difference however, assuming you the reader are from North America,
Europe, Australia, etc., is that in those cities you at least have some idea of
what the risks look like and, unless you're totally stupid, know how to avoid
them, whereas ouside of this familiar territory you loose those senses.

Add to this a guerilla war aimed at civialian targets.  I lived in London at the
time of the IRA bombing campaign (remember Harrods?).  As I write I feel there
have been fewer attacks on civialian targets in urban ares of Colombia than
there were in mainland UK.  (If you travel outside these major cities, its a
different story of course.)  Also, with the IRA now apparently training the FARC
this could well change.  So far they have only attacked the elite of Bogotá (at
El Nogal, for example), but have declared their intencion to bring the war to
the cities.

Add to this a level of poverty of which, unless you are very unlucky, or very
widely travelled, you cannot possibly conceive, and I hope you never have and
never will have to experience.

These three factors can be found in many socities around the world of course.
India springs to mind.  Yet I could walk around the slums of Delhi with a camera
valued at more than the total lifetime earnings of a family there without a
single problem.

There is an inherent level of violence and agression common, as far as I can
make out, to most of Latin America.  Add this to the desperation of a people
suffering through the above, an economy which leaves so many of them on a
subsistance, or sub-subsistance level and, possibly, the obvious wealth of their
northern neighbours and you have an explosive combination.

The real danger you will experience then, is not from the guerillas, unless you
happen to be very, very unlucky, but from serious street crime -- armed robbery,
drugging for robery, kidnapping for ransom.  And these guys are, on the whole,
clever. (The young boy who attacked me with a fork was clearly just in
training).
Here are some examples:

o Taxi drivers with an armed accomplice hiding in the boot/trunk.  Once your
journey is underway the accomplice will emerge and escort you to an ATM to empty
  your cards.

o You leave your drink on the bar to visit the toilet/bathroom.  Someone slips
something in it.  You wake up three days later.  In hospital if you are lucky.

o As a guy you get chatting to a group of attractive girls on the street.  They
encircle you then they, or a male friend who has joined them, draws a knife or
gun.

o You are travelling on a bus in the city.  A couple of guys board, draw guns,
and order the driver to a quiet side street where the passengers are robbed.

o And so on...


That's the bad news. The good news is that many people visit Colombia without
experiencing *any* of these problems.  In the group I was with, working in
Bogotá for two years, not one of us had a more serious incident to mine aluded
to above.  However we all knew both locals and foreigners who had been shot,
robbed, raped, or murdered.

If you're not prepared to do your homework and keep your wits about you, do
yourself and everyone else a favor and stay at home.  If you are, then go and
enjoy.  Its a wonderful, wonderful country.

Further reading:

The UK FCO Travel advisary is currently at:

    
http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Pag\
e&cid=1007029390590&a=KCountryAdvice&aid=1013618385774

Check however its the most current by going to the home page:

     http://www.fco.gov.uk/

     and enter "colombia" in the search box.

The UK has missions in Bogotá, Cali, and Medellin.  Contact information may be
found on the same site.

The Embassy in Bogotá maintains (or at least has!) a website at:

     http://www.britain.gov.co/

Its not as useful as it could be and the email addresses given often don't seem
to work.  Faxes will however, and can get a response by email with a little
patience.  Then you have an address which works, and you're away.


The US has a much more extensive site at:

     http://usembassy.state.gov/colombia/wwwsmane.shtml

mainly, it seems, dedicated to, if not obsessed with, pursueding readers that
the current fumigation campaign is causing no harm to anyone.

The current travel warnings are at:

     http://travel.state.gov/colombia_warning.html

and

     http://travel.state.gov/colombia.html



Q. Where can I meet attractive Colombian women?

A. New York, Los Angles, Miami, Dallas, Barcelona, Madrid, ...  I believe there
may be one of two left in Colombia as well, but if that's your main motivation
for going, see the above first!

This group is *not* a good place to discuss this topic and doing so without due
regard for the sensitivities of other members is likely to upset a considerable
number of people and may result, in the worst case, of you being banned.

The following site has been suggested as a better place to discuss this topic:

http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/latin/

Apparently there is a "useful write up" at:
http://www.planet-love.com/gclark/gclark01/

Best of luck in your search.



Q. What's the rate of exchange?

Against the USD: http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=USDCOP=X&d=c&t=2y
Against the EUR: http://finance.yahoo.com/m5?s=EUR&t=COP&a=1&c=0
Against the GBP: http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=GBPCOP=X&d=c&t=2y

Historical rates of exchange can be found at:
http://www.oanda.com/convert/classic


Q. I'm in Bogotá.  Where can I learn to dance salsa, merengue, etc.?

I'm pleased you asked!  My wife happens to be a teacher.  See
http://artofdance.tripod.com for more
information, then call her, Emilse Gutierrez, on her cellphone,
+57.310.222.5665. The studio
is currently closed due to the economic situation in Colombia so don't bother
calling there!

If you can't speak Spanish, don't worry.  Neither did I when I started.  And if
she can teach me,
she can teach anyone.  Honestly.  Just get a friend to make the initial call for
you.

(If the above is too much of an advert for your liking, well at least I declared
the interest
up front!  Just for some sense of fairness we also recommend the academy where I
learnt from
her: Director Humberto Bacerra, Academia Avenida Chile, Cra 11 No 71-41 #290,
tel: +57.1.310.7319.  His replacement teacher is excellent.)

Classes in advanced salsa, tango, vals etc. can also be arranged through Emilse.



Q. Where do I go in London to find a good bar/nightclub with a Colombian
atmosphere? Can you recommend any bars which play the music? People have
mentioned Unicornio before, where is it?

A1.Unicornio is by London Bridge station at 1, Duke Street, London SE1
(Tel: +44 (0) 20 735 78898) London. It opens about 10pm Fri and Sat night.
There is also a large colombian restaurant underneath.

Another useful place is Guayando (http://www.guayandolatinclub.com/) in
Halikarnas Club 6-9 Salisbury Promenade, Green Lanes, London N8
(Tel: +44 (0) 20 88022734). That opens Saturday and every weeks has Colombian
vallenato or salsa groups.

It's generally best to go with someone, preferably other Colombians.

Those 2 are the nearest you will get to a Colombian atmosphere. Most
of the others are full of people who haven't been to south America
and are fascinated by the 'cabaret' dancing and lessons.

A list of salsa music venues in London can be found at
http://www.salsabeat.freeserve.co.uk/clubs.htm

A2. Guayandos the typical colombian atmosphere, and most bartenders, djs,
and waiters are Colombian. If you are in central London, you can pick up
the mood at Salsa club on Charing Cross Road 3 blocks down from Tottenham Court
Road tube station.

If you have been in Colombia before and would like to have an "arepa" or good
"tinto", or maybe an "empanada", there are 2 inexpensive Colombian
cafeterias inside the mall just next door to the Elephant and Caste tube
station.

Another Colombian spot is in the Brixton Area, just in the big shopping centre,
there are 2 or 3 colombian stores/restaurants, outside one Colombian butcher
shop, they put a table with 3 or 4 colombian newspapers (writted and printed
in London).


Q: How can I get to see the Cuidad Perdida?

A: As of November 2002, the Ciudad Perdida trek was one
of the "standard" tour packages sold by operators out
of Santa Marta. The Hotel Decameron had a tour agency
and it was available there (it's cheaper for tours if
you purchase from vendors outside of the hotel
however). If I recall correctly, the typical package
was 2 days getting there, 2 to get back - and only 1
day at the lost city. Price was very reasonable
(don't recall exactly but around $100 I believe) and
included food/drinks/transport and guides. Safety?
You would think that since it's a common package it
would be OK - but my guess would be that if you're a
gringo you might as well paint a red target on your
chest! The route definitely traverses some known coca
cultivation regions.

There used to be a helicopter tour as well, but it was very expensive.  I don't
know if its still available or not.  Try contacting Aviatur In Santa Marta for
more information.



Q: How do I call to Colombia (inc cellphones)?

A: Dial your international access code (US: 011, Europe: 00)
    then the international code for Colombia (57)
    then the city of cellphone code (see below)
    then the number.

    Frequent codes:
       Bogota:                              1
       Cellular Comcel:                     310
       Cellular Cellumovil (aka BellSouth): 315



Q: Will my GSM/TDMA/CSMA/... cellular phone work in Colombia?

A: The primary service type is TDMA.

If this is the signal type your current phoneservice
is using then see if they have a Global Roaming plan
otherwise you will have to purchase a "Plan" or
prepaid card in Colombia.

Comcel, amongst others, is now offering GSM service. However it has chosen to
use the North-American 1900 MHz frequency band, rather than the globally
recognized 1800 Mhz.

Visitors from Americas should therefore be able to roam, subject to the normal
inter-carrier agreements or, if their phones are not locked, purchase and
install a local SIM.

Visitors from countries outside of the Americas will *not* be able to use their
phone, unless its one of the rare models offering this frequency band in
addition to your domestic ones.

Full details at http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/cou_co.shtml



Q: What's the best way to post stuff to/from Colombia?

A: Colombian postal services are, unfortunatly, not very reliable by US or
European standards.  Although some people seem to have had no problems at all
many others have lost valuable and even of-no-value consignments.

Registered, insured,  certified mail, or mail sent by courier services such as
FedEx, especially if it looks like boring business documents, seems to fair
somewhat better.  It is though far from a guarantee of success.

One member adds:

The method below worked fine when I sent a couple of
ethernet/telephone modem cards to Bogota (they needed
to get there quickly). Once the items left Miami, they
were delivered to the recipient's address the next day
(home delivery is $5 USD or the recipient can pick it
up at a designated Avianca office).

I've read about people sending DVD players and other
moderate priced goods to Colombia via Avianca. I
wonder what they do about declaring a value for
customs? On the ethernet cards, an Avianca
representative told me to declare a value and then pay
an additional 30% for customs.

Alternative for shipping parcels to Colombia:
AVIANCA EXPRESS
2511 NW 72ND AVE
MIAMI FL 33122

TEL 800.591.9112
$10 for 1st pound, $3 for each additional pound

And:

A while back I wrote about the Avianca Express office in Miami where you could
send parcels to Colombia for $10 USD for the first pound and $3 for each
additional.  I was checking rates this a.m. because I need to send about four
pieces of paper to Colombia and the FedEx and UPS sites estimated the price at
$45-$50 for delivery to an address in Bogot??.

I checked the Avianca Express site (they actually use the Gamma Carriers name,
but either URL will work) and was pleasantly surprised to see a clean, updated
site with pricing calculators for urgent mail, express mail and parcels as well
as some background info on customs charges. The site is in Spanish only, but
it's easy enough to figure out.

http://www.aviancaexpress.com/

http://www.gammacarriers.com/

They have offices in CA, CT, Wash DC, NY, NJ and a dozen or more in FL.


Another member adds:

There is an outfit called Colombian Cargo
(www.colombiancargo.com) which ships door-to-door to Colombia from
Miami ($2.60/lb), Houston ($2.70/lb), Dallas ($4.00/lb) and San
Antonio ($3.50/lb). I have no idea if they are any good and I have
no connection with them whatsoever.

hello: what is the easiest way to send money to someone in medellin. i find
westernunion expensive

HI Guys,
I'm currently a grad student at the MIT Sloan school of management and am
working on a project looking at E-Commerce in Colombia.  One of my big concerns
with the project i'm working on is i'm worried that colombia may not have the
infrastructure to provide cost effective shipping rates to farms and other
agrarian regions of colombia.  Does anyone have any idea as to how to get
pricing information for shipping agricultural supplies to colombian farms?

Any information on pricing or general comments about the infrastructure and ease
of shipping in colombia would be greatly appreciated.

The other question I had was about online retailing.  It's very pervasive in
America and I was wondering how pervasive e-commerce was in colombia and whether
people used their mobile phones for purchasing items.  Any opinions or
information on this would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,
Jared Lou

zoom.com      it is easy just from home





On Fri, 2 Dec 2011 14:22:46 +0000, David Ursprung <smartcard1@...>
wrote:
> As far as I know almost all if not all of us have done the same thing.
> The limiting factor is the quantity allowed to withdraw from a cash
> machine daily. Mine is $500.00 (some are much greater) which makes it
> difficult to buy a high end item.
>
> For a whileI had accounts in Panama and the US. I had two debit cards
> from the Panama bank and could withdraw $1000 with them and another $500
> with the US card.
>
> -------------------------
> To: ColombiaExperts@yahoogroups.com
> From: cjmsmit@...
> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 14:25:49 +0100
> Subject: Re: [ColombiaExperts] sending money to colombia
>
>       What I did: I opened a bankaccount in my homecountry and sent the
> bankcard to Colombia, so they can get the money at any cashmachine.
>
> met vriendelijke groet,
>
> Kees Smit
>
> 2011/12/2 jeromemackenzie
>         hello: what is the easiest way to send money to someone in
> medellin. i find westernunion expensive
>
>             Reply to sender [2] |  Reply to group [3] | Reply
> via web post [4] | Start a New Topic [5]  Messages in this topic [6] (3)

>      Recent Activity:
>
>   Visit Your Group [7]
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>  *Colombia Experts* Discussing Colombia
>
>  The Best of Colombia Experts is at:
>  http://isw.me.uk/content/category/4/14/27/ [8] and
>
http://isw.me.uk/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=The+Best+of+Colombia+Experts
> [9]
>
>     MARKETPLACE
>
> Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on -
> Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now. [10]
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] mailto:ainsle14@...
> [2]
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mailto:smartcard1@...?subject=RE%3A%20%5BColombiaExperts%5D%20sending%20\
money%20to%20colombia
> [3]
>
mailto:ColombiaExperts@yahoogroups.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5BColombiaExperts%5D%20s\
ending%20money%20to%20colombia
> [4]
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hello: what is the easiest way to send money to someone in medellin. i find westernunion expensive

 

HI Guys,
I'm currently a grad student at the MIT Sloan school of management and am working on a project looking at E-Commerce in Colombia. One of my big concerns with the project i'm working on is i'm worried that colombia may not have the infrastructure to provide cost effective shipping rates to farms and other agrarian regions of colombia. Does anyone have any idea as to how to get pricing information for shipping agricultural supplies to colombian farms?

Any information on pricing or general comments about the infrastructure and ease of shipping in colombia would be greatly appreciated.

The other question I had was about online retailing. It's very pervasive in America and I was wondering how pervasive e-commerce was in colombia and whether people used their mobile phones for purchasing items. Any opinions or information on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Jared Lou

On Fri, 2 Dec 2011 18:39:07 +0000, David Ursprung <smartcard1@...>
wrote:
> One thing that boosts the cost of sending money by agencies from
> Colombia is that there is a 16% tax on everything. It doesn't apply to
> money received by ATM machine - which is also known as Caja Automatica
> here. The 16%tax is used, by and large, to pay to keep Medellin looking
> beautiful..Right now every municipality has lights displayed and what
> displays they are, all trying to outdo each other. I learned yesterday
> that a portion of the services bill every month goes toward decorating
> that municipality for Christmas. In addition to decorating the
> municipalities with lights there are beautiful, amazing lighting
> decorations along the river Medellin, paralleling the metro tren so they
> are easy to see and definitely worth a $2.30 round trip by train. There
> probably are some equivalent displays in the US but in my limited
travels
> I've not seen them
>
> -------------------------
> To: colombiaexperts@yahoogroups.com
> From: smartcard1@...
> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 18:19:26 +0000
> Subject: RE: [ColombiaExperts] sending money to colombia
>
>  I'd say they are fare and that includes, in my opinion, Western Union.
> Yesterday by ATM snd debit card
> I cashed $720.000 that cost $366USD and $320.000 that cost $160USD. Very
> cheap but my bank (USAA Federal)absorbs the first 8 ATM transaction fee
> for a month
> . The problem with the exchange rate is that the better it is for us the
> more it costs to send money via WU. I imagine the other agencies might
be
> the same.
>
> Things are looking up and as I understand it the money makers are trying
> to push the value to the 1/2000 psychological point before the end of
the
> year.
>
> I wnet round and round with ZOOM FOR 3 months before I finally gave up
on
> them-
>
> -------------------------
> To: ColombiaExperts@yahoogroups.com
> From: akble@...
> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 06:27:35 -0800
> Subject: Re: [ColombiaExperts] sending money to colombia
>
> David what are the exchange rates normally? decent? Are you using debit
> cards? any added expense? I have been using MoneyGram for a monthly
> "allowance" and runs through Walmart $9.90 Andy
>      FROM: David Ursprung
>  TO: colombiaexperts@yahoogroups.com
>  SENT: Friday, December 2, 2011 8:22 AM
>  SUBJECT: RE: [ColombiaExperts] sending money to colombia
>
>   As far as I know almost all if not all of us have done the same thing.
> The limiting factor is the quantity allowed to withdraw from a cash
> machine daily. Mine is $500.00 (some are much greater) which makes it
> difficult to buy a high end item.
>
> For a whileI had accounts in Panama and the US. I had two debit cards
> from the Panama bank and could withdraw $1000 with them and another $500
> with the US card.
>
> To: ColombiaExperts@yahoogroups.com
> From: cjmsmit@...
> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 14:25:49 +0100
> Subject: Re: [ColombiaExperts] sending money to colombia
>
>       What I did: I opened a bankaccount in my homecountry and sent the
> bankcard to Colombia, so they can get the money at any cashmachine.
>
> met vriendelijke groet,
>
> Kees Smit
>
> 2011/12/2 jeromemackenzie
>         hello: what is the easiest way to send money to someone in
> medellin. i find westernunion expensive
>
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money%20to%20colombia
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had good sending with zoom, what was your problem with zoom?





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I don't find the infrastructure here to be too bad - the roads - at least the
main ones are pretty good - just not enough of them or big enough - and in the
mountains in the rainy season - can have problems - but compared to other
countries in Latin America - not so bad - compared to the US - yes it is
underwhelming.

Colombia does need better logistics though - it ranked only above Bolivia in
terms of logistics in South America - shipping via truck, ship, plane etc ....
they have the ab-lity to do it - just don't manage it well.

On -line sales - when 90% of the people makes less than $800/month there is not
a lot of extra spending money - so when you include shipping - even if it is
only $5 or $8 that can be a significant amount. Just cheaper to buy at the local
store - and if they don't have it - the locals figure they don't really need it.

When I shop in el Hueco in Centro or the discount area of Itagui - I see a lot
of small stores surviving on sales to small retailers in the country and small
towns - they make a lot of the clothes here in medellin, the small retailers
come into the city and pick up the clothes maybe once or twice a month -
everything is written down in small notebooks ( no computers)- merchandise is
packed in the car and taken back - a little like how the States would do
business back in the 50's ( or so I am told)

I do a little of this myself - I bring Victoria Secret Spray and Aeropastale
shirts back from the States for the esposa to sell, she sells it to friends,
co-workers and family - she even gives them terms on a 30K peso shirt - they
have 2 months to pay on the 15 and the 30th. This is strictly a small time thing
- I get my money back she keeps the differnce - to a gringo the differnce isn't
much but when the locals work 6 days a week for 9 hours a day and make
$300/month - if you can make an extra $150 on the side it makes a difference.
Possibly next year we will make the whole thing legit and invest in a small
store and ship some products here -

I write this just to show how tight things are for even inexpensive items - sure
there is a lot of money in Colombia but it is concentrated in a small amount of
hands. For on-line sales to take off - people are going to have to make more
money.

--- In ColombiaExperts@yahoogroups.com, David Ursprung <smartcard1@...> wrote:
>
>
> They put it into a box, inside a sealed bag.  Cost, $8.400
>
> To: ColombiaExperts@yahoogroups.com
> From: w_turley@...
> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 06:57:02 -0800
> Subject: Re: [ColombiaExperts] Shipping rates and Online E-Commerce
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>       I think both would work, ask at your agency. Our drugstore has packaging
materials but I don't know if that is universal or just our place
>  Bill  & Gloria TurleyFinca PicafloresVda Resguerdo
> Somondoco, Boyaca
> Colombia
>        From: David Ursprung <smartcard1@...>
>  To: colombiaexperts@yahoogroups.com
>  Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2011 9:51 AM
>  Subject: RE: [ColombiaExperts] Shipping rates and Online E-Commerce
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> I have a small, leather bag to send to Clyde.  Does Servientrega use shipping
envelopes or do I have to box and wrap the bag?
>
> To: ColombiaExperts@yahoogroups.com
> From: w_turley@...
> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 06:44:24 -0800
> Subject: Re: [ColombiaExperts] Shipping rates and Online E-Commerce
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> Hi Carl and all    I get mail through the Colombian mail service ( 4/72 ?) not
to the door of course but when I go to town it is handed to me. Packages and
parcels are regularly sent when my wife doesn't want to carry something when she
returns from Bogota. She uses Servientrega for this. These shipments go to the
local drugstore and a friendly druggist calls us. We live in a very isolated
rural area. Bill  & Gloria TurleyFinca PicafloresVda Resguerdo
> Somondoco, Boyaca
> Colombia
>
>  From: Carl Edlund Anderson <cea@...>
>  To: ColombiaExperts@yahoogroups.com
>  Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2011 9:34 AM
>  Subject: Re: [ColombiaExperts] Shipping rates and Online E-Commerce
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>       The difficulties lie in the associated costs. The farther one goes into
rural areas, the more shipping costs rise and the less disposable income people
have.
> Amazon etc. exist in the US because the infrastructure exists to support it. 
(And, first an foremost, the infrastructure exists to support the relative
levels of prosperity -- even in these times of economic crisis -- that make all
that shopping possible anyway).  In Colombia, that infrastructure simply doesn't
exist -- at least, not outside relatively dense areas of urban population (i.e.
cities).  Not yet, anyway.
>
> Cheers,Carl
> On 05 Dec 2011, at 11:12 , William Turley wrote:Jared  All farming areas do
have service from Servientrega. Depending on the mass of the shipment  this
might be a solution Bill  & Gloria TurleyFinca PicafloresVda Resguerdo
> Somondoco, Boyaca
> Colombia
> From: jaredlou27 <jaredlou0@...>
> To: ColombiaExperts@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 2:34 PM
> Subject: [ColombiaExperts] Shipping rates and Online E-Commerce
>
>
>
> HI Guys,
> I'm currently a grad student at the MIT Sloan school of management and am
working on a project looking at E-Commerce in Colombia. One
>  of my big concerns with the project i'm working on is i'm worried that
colombia may not have the infrastructure to provide cost
>  effective shipping rates to farms and other agrarian regions of colombia.
Does anyone have any idea as to how to get pricing information for shipping
agricultural supplies to colombian farms?
>
> Any information on pricing or general comments about the infrastructure and
ease of shipping in colombia would be greatly appreciated.
>
> The other question I had was about online retailing. It's very pervasive in
America and I was wondering how pervasive e-commerce was in colombia and whether
people used their mobile phones for purchasing items. Any opinions or
information on this would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Jared Lou
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --Carl Edlund Andersonhttp://www.carlaz.com/
>

On 07 Dec 2011, at 08:46 , Chuck wrote:
> I don't find the infrastructure here to be too bad - the roads - at least the
main ones are pretty good - just not enough of them or big enough - and in the
mountains in the rainy season - can have problems - but compared to other
countries in Latin America - not so bad - compared to the US - yes it is
underwhelming.


Well, since the original topic is implicitly comparing or at least thinking
about the spread of e-commerce in Colombia vs. the US, then the underwhelming
nature of Colombia's infrastructure is pretty center stage. :)


> On -line sales - when 90% of the people makes less than $800/month there is
not a lot of extra spending money - so when you include shipping - even if it is
only $5 or $8 that can be a significant amount. Just cheaper to buy at the local
store - and if they don't have it - the locals figure they don't really need it.


Exactly -- a condition which I would also link closely to the poor
infrastructure.

Mind you, I would not wish it to be understood that I consider replication of
American-style consumer culture as a desirable outcome -- and it would not need
to be the only outcome, as plenty of people in, say, northwestern Europe have
excellent roads and online shopping, yet manage to avoid pepper-spraying each
other over the last croissant or whatever ... ;)


> I write this just to show how tight things are for even inexpensive items -
sure there is a lot of money in Colombia but it is concentrated in a small
amount of hands. For on-line sales to take off - people are going to have to
make more money.



Yes indeed -- and I would argue that better infrastructure is a key ingredient
in helping more people make more money.

Cheers,
Carl

--
Carl Edlund Anderson
http://www.carlaz.com/

I would guess that at least 50% of the population in Colombia makes the minimum
or maybe slightly more - that is close to $300/month.

With that very limited income it is very hard to buy anything other than the
very basics - no matter how good the infrastructure is somehow they have to
raise the income level of the magority of Colombians - better roads would be a
help but there needs to be a lot more changes.

I think things are getting better for most here however - it will take time -
but it least it is going in the right direction as opposed to what is happening
in the States and parts of Europe.

--- In ColombiaExperts@yahoogroups.com, Carl Edlund Anderson <cea@...> wrote:
>
>
> On 07 Dec 2011, at 08:46 , Chuck wrote:
> > I don't find the infrastructure here to be too bad - the roads - at least
the main ones are pretty good - just not enough of them or big enough - and in
the mountains in the rainy season - can have problems - but compared to other
countries in Latin America - not so bad - compared to the US - yes it is
underwhelming.
>
>
> Well, since the original topic is implicitly comparing or at least thinking
about the spread of e-commerce in Colombia vs. the US, then the underwhelming
nature of Colombia's infrastructure is pretty center stage. :)
>
>
> > On -line sales - when 90% of the people makes less than $800/month there is
not a lot of extra spending money - so when you include shipping - even if it is
only $5 or $8 that can be a significant amount. Just cheaper to buy at the local
store - and if they don't have it - the locals figure they don't really need it.
>
>
> Exactly -- a condition which I would also link closely to the poor
infrastructure.
>
> Mind you, I would not wish it to be understood that I consider replication of
American-style consumer culture as a desirable outcome -- and it would not need
to be the only outcome, as plenty of people in, say, northwestern Europe have
excellent roads and online shopping, yet manage to avoid pepper-spraying each
other over the last croissant or whatever ... ;)
>
>
> > I write this just to show how tight things are for even inexpensive items -
sure there is a lot of money in Colombia but it is concentrated in a small
amount of hands. For on-line sales to take off - people are going to have to
make more money.
>
>
>
> Yes indeed -- and I would argue that better infrastructure is a key ingredient
in helping more people make more money.
>
> Cheers,
> Carl
>
> --
> Carl Edlund Anderson
> http://www.carlaz.com/
>

On 08 Dec 2011, at 08:23 , Chuck wrote:
> With that very limited income it is very hard to buy anything other than the
very basics - no matter how good the infrastructure is somehow they have to
raise the income level of the magority of Colombians - better roads would be a
help but there needs to be a lot more changes.

Indeed, many more.  Still ... again, I would argue that history reveals that
good transportation infrastructure is a virtual prerequisite to economic
development.  I struggle to think of a society from any period in history that
achieved notable economic gains without what was, for its time at least,
relatively decent transportation (of some kind or another).

In other words, as long as the movement of goods, people, money, and ideas are
restricted, prosperity will almost certainly remain elusive. Sure: you could
have great transportation and everyone might remain poor for other reasons. But
I very seriously doubt that general levels of prosperity could rise very
significantly without better transportation.

Cheers,
Carl

--
Carl Edlund Anderson
http://www.carlaz.com/