Exex-gay : Messages : 5985-6016 of 6016

Possibly in all our cultures we become desensitised……like the boiling frog syndrome.

Anthony

Moderator

My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.

Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from Pentecostal/Charismatic Backgrounds go to www.freedom2b.org

From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of colo45guy
Sent: Tuesday, 29 December 2009 11:05 AM
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Exex-gay] Re: Soybeans?

I'm glad you bring this up, Anthony. I am so desensitized to the sensationalism everytime I turn on the TV, listen to the radio, and read cureent magazines. It's so a part of everyday life here but it can get on ones nerves to say the least. There's only so much and so long a person can deal with the life of Britney Spears, for example.

--- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Venn-Brown" <anthony@...> wrote:
>
> I think that in the US there is a culture of celebrityism, sensationalism,
> excesses and talking things out to the nth degree. As an example, while I
> was over there recently it seemed the only thing that was constantly on the
> screen was either Sarah Palin or miss California Carrie
> <http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/11/13/2009-11-13_former_miss_califor
> nia_carrie_prejean_made_7_other_sex_tapes_dozens_of_nude_pics.html> Prejean
> and all the crap about their books and the behind the scenes scandals. I
> kept thinking to myself...what fascinates you people that you make people
> like this 'newsworthy'. Outside the US people generally find this quite
> bizarre.
>
>
>
> So I guess Christian TV..is possibly just a reflection of the culture.
>
>
>
> Apologies in advance if I've offended anyone from the US who are in this
> group.
>
>
>
> Anthony
>
> Moderator
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
>
> My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
> forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted,
> celebrated, and lived with integrity.
>
> <http://www.freedom2b.org/> Freedom 2 B(e)
>
> Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from
> Pentecostal/Charismatic Backgrounds go to www.freedom2b.org
>
>
>
> From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of colo45guy
> Sent: Monday, 28 December 2009 10:28 PM
> To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Exex-gay] Re: Soybeans?
>
>
>
>
>
> A Canadian friend told me that the American TV industry is notorious at
> sensationalizing anything for ratings and that we Americans are so caught up
> in it that we aren't even aware of it happening.
>
> It's sad that Christian TV has picked up on it and uses it as well. I know
> better now.
>
> --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Exex-gay%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Anthony Venn-Brown" <anthony@> wrote:
> >
> > Much of what I've seen of American Christian TV...it is a weird Christian
> > culture of excesses..and far removed from what real Christianity is about.
> > No other country has such a phenomena. Its unique to the US.
> >
> >
> >
> > I many ways I see that what Christian TV is in comparison to real
> > Christianity is like what Los Vegas is to American culture.
> >
> >
> >
> > Anthony
> >
> > Moderator
> >
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay>
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
> >
> > My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
> > forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted,
> > celebrated, and lived with integrity.
> >
> > <http://www.freedom2b.org/> Freedom 2 B(e)
> >
> > Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from
> > Pentecostal/Charismatic Backgrounds go to www.freedom2b.org
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Exex-gay%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Exex-gay%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> > Of colo45guy
> > Sent: Monday, 28 December 2009 2:47 AM
> > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Exex-gay%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Exex-gay] Soybeans?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In spite of my past of dysfunctional churches (gay and straight) I finally
> > got the courage to go back to church once again. For once (I pray and
> trust
> > that in God this really is so), there doesn't seem to be dirty politics,
> > back stabbing, or evident drama that would prompt people to come and go.
> If
> > there was a hint of politics, I WILL stay clear of all of it. Hallelujah,
> > there isn't a potential for spiritual abuse either. The love and grace of
> > God in Christ Jesus is taught.
> >
> > It's small, but I don't mind. And it is gay-affirming--the only way I'll
> go.
> >
> > Unfortunately, in my attempt to serve the Lord, there are areas of
> legalism
> > that still keep me from being able to receive God's love and I still live
> in
> > a lot of guilt and shame from the past "holiness" doctrines that almost
> > traumatized me as a believer.
> >
> > One way I get stumped is by watching Christian TV. Every time I seem to
> turn
> > on the television, there's usually something anti-gay that has to be said.
> > The latest thing I heard (also read this on the internet) about the
> > feminization of boys from a diet of soybeans.
> >
> > I was watching Paula White recently and she had a guest speaker that was
> > knowledgeable on alternative health issues. He quoted on the 700 club,
> there
> > was a brain wave activity test performed on baby boys after given a
> soybean
> > rich formula for a couple of weeks. After that period of time, the brain
> > waves turned to that of girls. In other words, his advice was to stay away
> > from soybeans because of its high amounts of natural estrogen and its
> > potential to feminize males.
> >
> > I had already read on the internet about someone who believes it is the
> > American soybean-rich diet that is causing a surge in the amount of gay
> men.
> > How can people be so stupid?
> >
> > I've tried in past to supplement my spiritual walk with Christian TV. But
> > with the soybean theory and beliefs that gayness is a generational curse
> > that needs to be broken, I have to resign from all of it altogether. I
> don't
> > care if there are healthy people that can be heard on Christian TV. Even
> on
> > the radio, I hear about hellfire and brimstone messages(which gives me
> > chills to from my past). I must stop abusing myself.
> >
> > Thank God I have my brothers and sister from the gay Christian
> > websites,exexgay groups, and facebook. Otherwise, I wouldn't make it as a
> > Gay Christian.
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.5.430 / Virus Database: 270.14.117/2582 - Release Date:
> 12/27/09
> > 09:18:00
> >
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.430 / Virus Database: 270.14.117/2582 - Release Date: 12/27/09
> 09:18:00
>

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.430 / Virus Database: 270.14.117/2582 - Release Date: 12/27/09 09:18:00

#6015

From: "colo45guy" <robcola42@...>
Date: Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:04 am
Subject: Re: Soybeans?

colo45guy

Offline

I'm glad you bring this up, Anthony.  I am so desensitized to the sensationalism
everytime I turn on the TV, listen to the radio, and read cureent magazines. 
It's so a part of everyday life here but it can get on ones nerves to say the
least.  There's only so much and so long a person can deal with the life of
Britney Spears, for example.

--- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Venn-Brown" <anthony@...> wrote:
>
> I think that in the US there is a culture of celebrityism, sensationalism,
> excesses and talking things out to the nth degree. As an example, while I
> was over there recently it seemed the only thing that was constantly on the
> screen was either Sarah Palin or miss California Carrie
> <http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/11/13/2009-11-13_former_miss_califor
> nia_carrie_prejean_made_7_other_sex_tapes_dozens_of_nude_pics.html>  Prejean
> and all the crap about their books and the behind the scenes scandals. I
> kept thinking to myself...what fascinates you people that you make people
> like this 'newsworthy'. Outside the US people generally find this quite
> bizarre.
>
>
>
> So I guess Christian TV..is possibly just a reflection of the culture.
>
>
>
> Apologies in advance if I've offended anyone from the US who are in this
> group.
>
>
>
> Anthony
>
> Moderator
>
>  <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
>
> My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
> forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted,
> celebrated, and lived with integrity.
>
>  <http://www.freedom2b.org/> Freedom 2 B(e)
>
> Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from
> Pentecostal/Charismatic Backgrounds go to www.freedom2b.org
>
>
>
> From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of colo45guy
> Sent: Monday, 28 December 2009 10:28 PM
> To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Exex-gay] Re: Soybeans?
>
>
>
>
>
> A Canadian friend told me that the American TV industry is notorious at
> sensationalizing anything for ratings and that we Americans are so caught up
> in it that we aren't even aware of it happening.
>
> It's sad that Christian TV has picked up on it and uses it as well. I know
> better now.
>
> --- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Exex-gay%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Anthony Venn-Brown" <anthony@> wrote:
> >
> > Much of what I've seen of American Christian TV...it is a weird Christian
> > culture of excesses..and far removed from what real Christianity is about.
> > No other country has such a phenomena. Its unique to the US.
> >
> >
> >
> > I many ways I see that what Christian TV is in comparison to real
> > Christianity is like what Los Vegas is to American culture.
> >
> >
> >
> > Anthony
> >
> > Moderator
> >
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay>
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
> >
> > My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
> > forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted,
> > celebrated, and lived with integrity.
> >
> > <http://www.freedom2b.org/> Freedom 2 B(e)
> >
> > Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from
> > Pentecostal/Charismatic Backgrounds go to www.freedom2b.org
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Exex-gay%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Exex-gay%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
> Behalf
> > Of colo45guy
> > Sent: Monday, 28 December 2009 2:47 AM
> > To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Exex-gay%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Exex-gay] Soybeans?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In spite of my past of dysfunctional churches (gay and straight) I finally
> > got the courage to go back to church once again. For once (I pray and
> trust
> > that in God this really is so), there doesn't seem to be dirty politics,
> > back stabbing, or evident drama that would prompt people to come and go.
> If
> > there was a hint of politics, I WILL stay clear of all of it. Hallelujah,
> > there isn't a potential for spiritual abuse either. The love and grace of
> > God in Christ Jesus is taught.
> >
> > It's small, but I don't mind. And it is gay-affirming--the only way I'll
> go.
> >
> > Unfortunately, in my attempt to serve the Lord, there are areas of
> legalism
> > that still keep me from being able to receive God's love and I still live
> in
> > a lot of guilt and shame from the past "holiness" doctrines that almost
> > traumatized me as a believer.
> >
> > One way I get stumped is by watching Christian TV. Every time I seem to
> turn
> > on the television, there's usually something anti-gay that has to be said.
> > The latest thing I heard (also read this on the internet) about the
> > feminization of boys from a diet of soybeans.
> >
> > I was watching Paula White recently and she had a guest speaker that was
> > knowledgeable on alternative health issues. He quoted on the 700 club,
> there
> > was a brain wave activity test performed on baby boys after given a
> soybean
> > rich formula for a couple of weeks. After that period of time, the brain
> > waves turned to that of girls. In other words, his advice was to stay away
> > from soybeans because of its high amounts of natural estrogen and its
> > potential to feminize males.
> >
> > I had already read on the internet about someone who believes it is the
> > American soybean-rich diet that is causing a surge in the amount of gay
> men.
> > How can people be so stupid?
> >
> > I've tried in past to supplement my spiritual walk with Christian TV. But
> > with the soybean theory and beliefs that gayness is a generational curse
> > that needs to be broken, I have to resign from all of it altogether. I
> don't
> > care if there are healthy people that can be heard on Christian TV. Even
> on
> > the radio, I hear about hellfire and brimstone messages(which gives me
> > chills to from my past). I must stop abusing myself.
> >
> > Thank God I have my brothers and sister from the gay Christian
> > websites,exexgay groups, and facebook. Otherwise, I wouldn't make it as a
> > Gay Christian.
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.5.430 / Virus Database: 270.14.117/2582 - Release Date:
> 12/27/09
> > 09:18:00
> >
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.430 / Virus Database: 270.14.117/2582 - Release Date: 12/27/09
> 09:18:00
>

#6014

From: "Anthony Venn-Brown" <anthony@...>
Date: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:00 pm
Subject: RE: Re: Soybeans?

avennbrown

Offline

I think that in the US there is a culture of celebrityism, sensationalism, excesses and talking things out to the nth degree. As an example, while I was over there recently it seemed the only thing that was constantly on the screen was either Sarah Palin or miss California Carrie Prejean and all the crap about their books and the behind the scenes scandals. I kept thinking to myself…..what fascinates you people that you make people like this ‘newsworthy’. Outside the US people generally find this quite bizarre.

So I guess Christian TV……is possibly just a reflection of the culture.

Apologies in advance if I’ve offended anyone from the US who are in this group.

Anthony

Moderator

My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.

Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from Pentecostal/Charismatic Backgrounds go to www.freedom2b.org

From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of colo45guy
Sent: Monday, 28 December 2009 10:28 PM
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Exex-gay] Re: Soybeans?

A Canadian friend told me that the American TV industry is notorious at sensationalizing anything for ratings and that we Americans are so caught up in it that we aren't even aware of it happening.

It's sad that Christian TV has picked up on it and uses it as well. I know better now.

--- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Venn-Brown" <anthony@...> wrote:
>
> Much of what I've seen of American Christian TV...it is a weird Christian
> culture of excesses..and far removed from what real Christianity is about.
> No other country has such a phenomena. Its unique to the US.
>
>
>
> I many ways I see that what Christian TV is in comparison to real
> Christianity is like what Los Vegas is to American culture.
>
>
>
> Anthony
>
> Moderator
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
>
> My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
> forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted,
> celebrated, and lived with integrity.
>
> <http://www.freedom2b.org/> Freedom 2 B(e)
>
> Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from
> Pentecostal/Charismatic Backgrounds go to www.freedom2b.org
>
>
>
> From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of colo45guy
> Sent: Monday, 28 December 2009 2:47 AM
> To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Exex-gay] Soybeans?
>
>
>
>
>
> In spite of my past of dysfunctional churches (gay and straight) I finally
> got the courage to go back to church once again. For once (I pray and trust
> that in God this really is so), there doesn't seem to be dirty politics,
> back stabbing, or evident drama that would prompt people to come and go. If
> there was a hint of politics, I WILL stay clear of all of it. Hallelujah,
> there isn't a potential for spiritual abuse either. The love and grace of
> God in Christ Jesus is taught.
>
> It's small, but I don't mind. And it is gay-affirming--the only way I'll go.
>
> Unfortunately, in my attempt to serve the Lord, there are areas of legalism
> that still keep me from being able to receive God's love and I still live in
> a lot of guilt and shame from the past "holiness" doctrines that almost
> traumatized me as a believer.
>
> One way I get stumped is by watching Christian TV. Every time I seem to turn
> on the television, there's usually something anti-gay that has to be said.
> The latest thing I heard (also read this on the internet) about the
> feminization of boys from a diet of soybeans.
>
> I was watching Paula White recently and she had a guest speaker that was
> knowledgeable on alternative health issues. He quoted on the 700 club, there
> was a brain wave activity test performed on baby boys after given a soybean
> rich formula for a couple of weeks. After that period of time, the brain
> waves turned to that of girls. In other words, his advice was to stay away
> from soybeans because of its high amounts of natural estrogen and its
> potential to feminize males.
>
> I had already read on the internet about someone who believes it is the
> American soybean-rich diet that is causing a surge in the amount of gay men.
> How can people be so stupid?
>
> I've tried in past to supplement my spiritual walk with Christian TV. But
> with the soybean theory and beliefs that gayness is a generational curse
> that needs to be broken, I have to resign from all of it altogether. I don't
> care if there are healthy people that can be heard on Christian TV. Even on
> the radio, I hear about hellfire and brimstone messages(which gives me
> chills to from my past). I must stop abusing myself.
>
> Thank God I have my brothers and sister from the gay Christian
> websites,exexgay groups, and facebook. Otherwise, I wouldn't make it as a
> Gay Christian.
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.430 / Virus Database: 270.14.117/2582 - Release Date: 12/27/09
> 09:18:00
>

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.430 / Virus Database: 270.14.117/2582 - Release Date: 12/27/09 09:18:00

#6013

From: "colo45guy" <robcola42@...>
Date: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:27 am
Subject: Re: Soybeans?

colo45guy

Offline

A Canadian friend told me that the American TV industry is notorious at
sensationalizing anything for ratings and that we Americans are so caught up in
it that we aren't even aware of it happening.

It's sad that Christian TV has picked up on it and uses it as well.  I know
better now.

--- In Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Venn-Brown" <anthony@...> wrote:
>
> Much of what I've seen of American Christian TV...it is a weird Christian
> culture of excesses..and far removed from what real Christianity is about.
> No other country has such a phenomena. Its unique to the US.
>
>
>
> I many ways I see that what Christian TV is in comparison to real
> Christianity is like what Los Vegas is to American culture.
>
>
>
> Anthony
>
> Moderator
>
>  <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Exex-gay
>
> My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be
> forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted,
> celebrated, and lived with integrity.
>
>  <http://www.freedom2b.org/> Freedom 2 B(e)
>
> Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from
> Pentecostal/Charismatic Backgrounds go to www.freedom2b.org
>
>
>
> From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of colo45guy
> Sent: Monday, 28 December 2009 2:47 AM
> To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Exex-gay] Soybeans?
>
>
>
>
>
> In spite of my past of dysfunctional churches (gay and straight) I finally
> got the courage to go back to church once again. For once (I pray and trust
> that in God this really is so), there doesn't seem to be dirty politics,
> back stabbing, or evident drama that would prompt people to come and go. If
> there was a hint of politics, I WILL stay clear of all of it. Hallelujah,
> there isn't a potential for spiritual abuse either. The love and grace of
> God in Christ Jesus is taught.
>
> It's small, but I don't mind. And it is gay-affirming--the only way I'll go.
>
> Unfortunately, in my attempt to serve the Lord, there are areas of legalism
> that still keep me from being able to receive God's love and I still live in
> a lot of guilt and shame from the past "holiness" doctrines that almost
> traumatized me as a believer.
>
> One way I get stumped is by watching Christian TV. Every time I seem to turn
> on the television, there's usually something anti-gay that has to be said.
> The latest thing I heard (also read this on the internet) about the
> feminization of boys from a diet of soybeans.
>
> I was watching Paula White recently and she had a guest speaker that was
> knowledgeable on alternative health issues. He quoted on the 700 club, there
> was a brain wave activity test performed on baby boys after given a soybean
> rich formula for a couple of weeks. After that period of time, the brain
> waves turned to that of girls. In other words, his advice was to stay away
> from soybeans because of its high amounts of natural estrogen and its
> potential to feminize males.
>
> I had already read on the internet about someone who believes it is the
> American soybean-rich diet that is causing a surge in the amount of gay men.
> How can people be so stupid?
>
> I've tried in past to supplement my spiritual walk with Christian TV. But
> with the soybean theory and beliefs that gayness is a generational curse
> that needs to be broken, I have to resign from all of it altogether. I don't
> care if there are healthy people that can be heard on Christian TV. Even on
> the radio, I hear about hellfire and brimstone messages(which gives me
> chills to from my past). I must stop abusing myself.
>
> Thank God I have my brothers and sister from the gay Christian
> websites,exexgay groups, and facebook. Otherwise, I wouldn't make it as a
> Gay Christian.
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.430 / Virus Database: 270.14.117/2582 - Release Date: 12/27/09
> 09:18:00
>

#6012

From: "Anthony Venn-Brown" <anthony@...>
Date: Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:00 am
Subject: RE: Soybeans?

avennbrown

Offline

Much of what I’ve seen of American Christian TV…….it is a weird Christian culture of excesses….and far removed from what real Christianity is about. No other country has such a phenomena. Its unique to the US.

I many ways I see that what Christian TV is in comparison to real Christianity is like what Los Vegas is to American culture.

Anthony

Moderator

My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.

Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from Pentecostal/Charismatic Backgrounds go to www.freedom2b.org

From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of colo45guy
Sent: Monday, 28 December 2009 2:47 AM
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Exex-gay] Soybeans?

In spite of my past of dysfunctional churches (gay and straight) I finally got the courage to go back to church once again. For once (I pray and trust that in God this really is so), there doesn't seem to be dirty politics, back stabbing, or evident drama that would prompt people to come and go. If there was a hint of politics, I WILL stay clear of all of it. Hallelujah, there isn't a potential for spiritual abuse either. The love and grace of God in Christ Jesus is taught.

It's small, but I don't mind. And it is gay-affirming--the only way I'll go.

Unfortunately, in my attempt to serve the Lord, there are areas of legalism that still keep me from being able to receive God's love and I still live in a lot of guilt and shame from the past "holiness" doctrines that almost traumatized me as a believer.

One way I get stumped is by watching Christian TV. Every time I seem to turn on the television, there's usually something anti-gay that has to be said. The latest thing I heard (also read this on the internet) about the feminization of boys from a diet of soybeans.

I was watching Paula White recently and she had a guest speaker that was knowledgeable on alternative health issues. He quoted on the 700 club, there was a brain wave activity test performed on baby boys after given a soybean rich formula for a couple of weeks. After that period of time, the brain waves turned to that of girls. In other words, his advice was to stay away from soybeans because of its high amounts of natural estrogen and its potential to feminize males.

I had already read on the internet about someone who believes it is the American soybean-rich diet that is causing a surge in the amount of gay men. How can people be so stupid?

I've tried in past to supplement my spiritual walk with Christian TV. But with the soybean theory and beliefs that gayness is a generational curse that needs to be broken, I have to resign from all of it altogether. I don't care if there are healthy people that can be heard on Christian TV. Even on the radio, I hear about hellfire and brimstone messages(which gives me chills to from my past). I must stop abusing myself.

Thank God I have my brothers and sister from the gay Christian websites,exexgay groups, and facebook. Otherwise, I wouldn't make it as a Gay Christian.

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#6011

From: "colo45guy" <robcola42@...>
Date: Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:47 pm
Subject: Soybeans?

colo45guy

Offline

In spite of my past of dysfunctional churches (gay and straight) I finally got
the courage to go back to church once again.  For once (I pray and trust that in
God this really is so), there doesn't seem to be dirty politics, back stabbing,
or evident drama that would prompt people to come and go.  If there was a hint
of politics, I WILL stay clear of all of it.  Hallelujah, there isn't a
potential for spiritual abuse either.  The love and grace of God in Christ Jesus
is taught.

It's small, but I don't mind.  And it is gay-affirming--the only way I'll go.

Unfortunately, in my attempt to serve the Lord, there are areas of legalism that
still keep me from being able to receive God's love and I still live in a lot of
guilt and shame from the past "holiness" doctrines that almost traumatized me as
a believer.

One way I get stumped is by watching Christian TV.  Every time I seem to turn on
the television, there's usually something anti-gay that has to be said.  The
latest thing I heard (also read this on the internet) about the feminization of
boys from a diet of soybeans.

I was watching Paula White recently and she had a guest speaker that was
knowledgeable on alternative health issues.  He quoted on the 700 club, there
was a brain wave activity test performed on baby boys after given a soybean rich
formula for a couple of weeks.  After that period of time, the brain waves
turned to that of girls. In other words, his advice was to stay away from
soybeans because of its high amounts of natural estrogen and its potential to
feminize males.

I had already read on the internet about someone who believes it is the American
soybean-rich diet that is causing a surge in the amount of gay men.  How can
people be so stupid?

I've tried in past to supplement my spiritual walk with Christian TV.  But with
the soybean theory and beliefs that gayness is a generational curse that needs
to be broken, I have to resign from all of it altogether.  I don't care if there
are healthy people that can be heard on Christian TV.  Even on the radio, I hear
about hellfire and brimstone messages(which gives me chills to from my past).  I
must stop abusing myself.

Thank God I have my brothers and sister from the gay Christian websites,exexgay
groups, and facebook.  Otherwise, I wouldn't make it as a Gay Christian.

#6010

From: "Anthony Venn-Brown" <anthony@...>
Date: Sun Dec 27, 2009 7:59 am
Subject: RE: A Dillema

avennbrown

Offline

Hey Korry…..how is this progressing for you.

Anthony Venn-Brown

Professional Coach, Speaker and Author of 'A Life of Unlearning - A Journey to Find the Truth'

Convenor of Freedom 2 b[e]

Honoured to be on the 2007 & 2009 list of the 25 Most Influential Gay & Lesbian Australians

Tel: + 61 (0)2 9699 2448

Mobile: +61 (0)416 015 231

anthony@...

Wishing you the most wonderful Christmas with family and friends.

May 2010 be successful, exciting and fulfilling.

From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Korry Korry
Sent: Friday, 27 November 2009 1:17 AM
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] A Dillema

I don't know even know if he is alive anymore. It is hard to look for him online because he has one of those ultra-commonplace anglo-names (i.e.; "John Smith") shared by millions of men in this world. But I do wonder if he is even alive anymore, if only because when we were last in touch, in 1992, his life seemed to completely falling apart; he was out of money, he left his job, he was homeless, and he complained that his friends had abandoned him -- yet while he might have convinced himself he was a victim of bad fortune, to me it seemed he was creating these circumstances almost to validate whatever internal self-loathing he carried with him and never surmounted. There was definitely something going on with a guy who during the day, as I witnessed, would give contemptuously anti-gay, self-righteously pro ex-gay interviews with the press, but then make-out with a guy (in this case, me) at night. I must say that this reflected my own internal divisions at the time, but looking back, it really does seem sick.

One of the things that has changed my outlook is the emergence of openly gay men who are such outstanding examples of citizenry; I think of the region where I used to live in America, Washington State, which has five openly gay legislators, who not only have outstanding, impressive academic and public service credentials, but in some cases, are raising children with their same-sex partners. So these are men dedicated to serving their communities, both gay and straight, and are also committed same-sex spouses and responsible fathers, reaping all the rewards of raising good, loving, successful children.

So much for the big fat lie that being gay meant you'd live life as a social pariah, full of empty, sleazy sex, with no lasting relationships, and never knowing what it is to be a dad. Not that every gay man desires to be a father, but we now know that one does not have to go the ex-gay route in order to achieve both that and a committed, loving relationship.

--- On Wed, 11/25/09, Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...> wrote:

From: Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...>
Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] A Dillema
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 12:38 PM

Certainly is a dilemma Korry.

On the one hand this gentleman is contributing to unnecessary suffering and even suicide. This is terrible and should be stopped. Our silence contributes to this. Every time we do something to deconstruct the ex-gay myth with hasten the day when these programs will be no more.

Then I think of myself on the other hand how I would have felt to be exposed. Having experienced exposure and scandal myself it’s not something I would wish on anyone. But then again it forced me out of denial and into reality. So today as a totally resolved gay man I am grateful it finally happened.

If I was in your situation I’d approach him first to let see where he is at. The best outcome would be that he would be honest himself.

I’ve just come from the ex-gay survivors conference in Florida……if you wanted to make it public then I’d connect you with some of the guys there. Some I know would do the right thing with the info and be able to advise you. Others might handle it more sensationally and insensitively. If you want me to put you in contact with the right ones…..then email me privately and we can discuss it and I’ll put you in touch.

I wonder what others feel.

Anthony Venn-Brown

An Ambassador for the GLBT Community

Award winning author of 'A Life of Unlearning - A Journey to Find the Truth'

Co-convenor of Freedom 2 b[e]

Honoured to be on the inaugural list of the 25 Most Influential Gay & Lesbian Australians

"The enemy is ignorance"

"My morality is a choice, my sexual orientation however isn't'

'When we choose to live authentically, we chip away at others' prisons of pretend'

Blog: http://alifeofunlea rning.blogspot. com/

Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook .com/gayambassad or

Follow me on Twitter https://twitter. com/gayambassado r

My YouTube Channel is here

From: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:Exex- gay@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Korry Korry
Sent: Tuesday, 24 November 2009 9:18 PM
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com
Subject: [Exex-gay] A Dillema

Boy does this bother me. Recently, a representative for a VERY high-profile
public figure in America made a lot of noise referencing his "ex-gay" friend who
purportedly found Jesus and "left the lifestyle," et al, et cetera. This was
fairly BIG news in the gay blogosphere for a while.

The weird, very weird, problem for me is that I knew this "ex-gay" friend this
guy was talking about. I had sex with him 18 years ago, when I was my 27 and the
fellow was 42 -- well AFTER he dedicated himself to serving ex-gay ministries.

This has forced me to look back and contemplate how absurd this all was. I got
the guy's name and phone number via my local chapter of Exodus, and he actually
worked for a church in Northern California at the time, in addition to being a
spokesman for "ex-gay" philosophy. He was quite passionate about it, writing
angry editorials denouncing the gay rights movement as "the sodomy movement."
But he was also quite clever in stating, even publicly, that he was "not fully
healed." Apparently that seems to have been his excuse to have his cake and eat
it too. I myself was going back-and-forth on whether to pursue the ex-gay trip,
and even before I went to visit him, we talked about the possibility of engaging
in some form of physical interaction that may or may not become sexual.

The night that I got there we shared a bed, and did a little of fooling around
before we both went to sleep. I enjoyed it, he enjoyed it, but we both felt very
conflicted, so that was the relationship didn't go further.

The guy is not anything like a manipulative sociopath; he did many good works
helping the needy in his life, and did so with sincere dedication. Rather, he
seemed to epitomize the anguished split mentality that many of us who have ever
contemplated ex-gayism go through. When I contacted him again a year and a half
later, we considered getting together for a possible relationship, but then he
told me that an angel in a dream said not to. The follow-up calls I had with him
led me to believe that his life seemed to be falling apart, and today I fear may
not even be around anymore.

Hence, even though I could make headlines telling the world my story, and my
relationship with this man, I am reluctant to do so because few journalists or
bloggers would treat this issue with the sensitivity it deserves. Conservatives,
meanwhile, would claim I was lying. And furthermore, I don't want me gaining
public recognition for a sex scandal, rather than for my talents and
accomplishments. But I feel creeped out, still, that this representative of this
extremely high-profile public figure, addressing an large conservative audience
in the media, would be essentially promoting a blatant lie about somebody I
happen to know.

Frustrating.

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#6009

From: "Anthony Venn-Brown" <anthony@...>
Date: Sun Dec 27, 2009 7:59 am
Subject: RE: File - Welcome welcome welcome

avennbrown

Offline

Hi Michael….I’m catching up on my overloaded inbox…….and found this.

I’ve forwarded it to the group.

Dear Exex Gays,

Hi. My name is Michael B Bottomley. I live in Southern California. I have been gay all my life and have struggled with acceptance of being gay all my life since I first realized that I was gay when I was 20 years old. I am now 51 years old. I have gone back and forth between the gay and either conservative Roman Catholic or Fundamentalist Christian circles. The longest period that I spent in the gay community was between 1996 and 2006, which would be 10 years. I left the gay community in 2006 because my father was dying at the time and no one in the gay community really seemed to care. Or at least, that was how it seemed. Between 2005 and 2006, I had become sexually active and I got the feeling that the only thing that people in the gay community really cared about was sex. I was in a lot of emotional and spiritual turmoil at the time, and my father's passing and all the family turmoil got so bad that I just reacted, and my reaction was to leave the gay community.

I currently attend First Fundamental Bible Church of Whittier, CA. I feel that I am at the point in life where I should be going back into the gay community, hopefully for good. The one thing that bugs me about this decision is that I have formed relationships in the fundamentalist church that are valuable to me. First Fundamental Bible Church is very anti-gay. By the way, I am already attending gay events such as parties and going out with friends to gay establishments. If the fundamentalist church knew about this, I would be subject to church discipline.

I guess that if I really went into the gay community all the way, that I would lose the relationships that I have formed in the fundamentalist church. Do you see any other way to deal with this issue? I once exchanged e-mails with Wayne Besen who is a leader of the ex-ex gay movement, and his response was that sometimes you just have to let people down and let it go at that. Do you agree with this statement, based upon what you know in this message?

My purpose in joining this list is to gain insights into these and related issues. Thanks so much for your time and have a nice day.

Sincerely,

Mike Bottomley

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 11:00 PM, Exex-gay Moderator <Exex-gay-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Welcome from your friendly group moderator. It’s great that you have joined us.

This is a safe place with genuine caring people who have dealt with or are dealing with the same issues you are. A number of people in this group are here because they have read my autobiography but many others haven't. If you want to know more about me you can download the first chapter of my book at. http://www.anthonyvennbrown.com/book.html

We'd like you to say hi and tell us a little about your journey. Feel free to
Please remember this when you are posting.

1. Tone. Keep it respectful. Always. No name calling or accusations. Its poor communication. This is not the Jerry Springer or Ricky Lake show.
2. Allow others a point of view and opinion. That’s what makes this world a wonderful place. Remember that we are all at different places in our journeys. The ultimate place for us all is peace with God, ourselves and others. That can take years.
3. We don't except posts that promote sex or dating sites or from people who are pushing products. It’s not what we are here for. There are other sites for that.
4. Please don’t send lots of or daily news items. We’ve found that it kills discussion. But if you have a one off article that the majority of the group would be interested in then post that as it should promote discussion.
5. If you are not used to being a part of a yahoo group here is a suggestion. Initially you may find it manageable to set emails to be received individually. If traffic gets quite busy, the daily digest a bit more workable. Depends on how much of a cyberspace person you are. You can change the settings any time you like. If you set to web only/no mail you’ll find that you may miss out on discussion that could be relevant to you. We’d hate to miss out on your valuable contribution.

If you have some resources or know of sites that would be helpful to the group please let us know. Feel free to invite others.

Now say hi.....say as much or as little as you like but at least let us know you are here or ask any questions about concerns you may have.

Anthony
Moderator

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#6008

From: Pete Zayonce <pete.zayonce@...>
Date: Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:36 am
Subject: Re: AMAZING BIBLE PROPHECIES...

guylian2002

Offline

I've read through this post & I must say that I respectfully hope that Sodom is NOT restored to the way it was.

One of the reasons that the punishment came, was because of the inhospitable behaviour not because of sexual orientation. �I'm sure that there isn't anyone on this list that would need to be convinced that the Sodom story is not about sexuality. �

It is equally important not to draw parallels to ancient tribal behaviour & attribute it as Christian behaviour. �Lot simply could not have been a Christian because Jesus hadn't been born yet.�

2009/12/19 keemoguy <keemosabe7@...>

�

I'm sorry I posted the worng message!

First a bit about myself...
I am an odd ball person...
former born again Baptist minister for most of my life... now a critic of
Christianity and religion in general... I am no longer a religios person... I am
not being immoral, either! I wish to share my Bible knowledge that is being
covered up by professional preachers...

Here is the message I meant to post!

According to the Bible writers a positive sign of the return of Jesus Christ that hardly any Christian is willing to discuss is the FULL AND UNCONDITIONAL RESTORATION OF SODOM to the way that it was before it was destroyed! Preachers are PROMOTING HOMOPHOBIA on their own initiative because it is popular and Christians go for anything that will take them to Heaven when they die! Some Preachers are coward gays in the closet like the Most Reverend Ted Haggard the former US NATIONAL RELIGIOUS ADVISER to President Bush on Christian issues!

God did realize that he made a mistake in dropping the bomb on Sodom. GOD MADE A SWORN STATEMENT THAT HE WILL RESTORE SODOM TO THE WAY IT WAS...!!! This is fully documented in the portion of "God's Holy Word the Bible" that most Christians use for toilet paper!

Ezekiel 16:48-55 (NIV) [48-49] As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD* (*this is GOD speaking, not just another gay bashing Bible writer!), your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what you* (*what JERUSALEM did! Most Christians refuse to agree with God that JERUSALEM IS FAR MORE SINFUL THAN SODOM EVER WAS!) and your daughters have done. "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom* (*HEAR YE� HEAR YE Christians!): She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy...* (*Neither God the Father nor his ONLY BEGOTTEN God the Son Jesus Christ EVER MENTIONED THAT THE SIN OF SODOM was homosexuality! Jesus is making favorable statements about SODOM all along --Mat 10:15, 11:24, Mar 6:11, Luc 10:12) [53] "However, I* (*God) WILL RESTORE the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters and of Samaria and her daughters* (*if Sodom stands for gays, then Samaria must stand for Lesbians! Spiritually speaking, of course!), and your fortunes along with them� [55] And your sisters, SODOM with her daughters and Samaria with her daughters, WILL RETURN TO WHAT THEY WERE BEFORE* (*this is an UNCONDITIONAL RESTORATION of Sodom that homophobic Christians refuse to accept!); and you and your daughters will return to what you were before* (*God does not demand "repentance" or "turning away" at all in here, but a "RETURN TO WHAT THEY WERE BEFORE!" According to the Bible writers "Sodomy" was not the "sin" of Sodom, but CARELESS LIVING!)

http://www.theweek.com/article/index/99258/Debunking_gaytostraight_therapy

Jeremiah 13:23 (KJV) Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots?...

NEVER!...

Jesus never bothered trying to convert a homosexual or a lesbian into a heterosexual, but the preachers made homosexuality about the worst "sin" in the Bible! The gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and so on HAVE NO WAY TO CHANGE! Ask the Reverend Ted Haggard! The Jewish Bible writers admit that Jerusalem is far more "sinful" than Sodom ever was! Christians traditionally refuse to believe what GOD says in favor of gays! They feel comfortable with Saint Paul's hating almost everybody! He set the pattern for the rest of the NT writers!

When Christians say that they love the sinners, but hate their "sin" they actually mean that they love gays, but hate @nal sex. They also REALLY LOVE HITLER, BUT HATE KILLING JEWS! They loved the Salem Witches, but hated their witchcraft! Christians really love the atheists, but hate their Bible knowledge.

The Bible writers claim that the full restoration of SODOM must be taking place now anytime soon! There is nothing wrong in the Bible with gays and the same sex marriage issue that we hear today! Christians are passionately AGAINST the fulfillment of Bible prophecies that they don't like. The old Sodomites were much Holier and far more respectful of women than Righteous Lot was. Lot pledged his young virgin daughters for marriage to HETEROSEXUAL SODOMITES. These honorable citizens of Sodom were not necessarily people enjoying anal sex like Christians claim otherwise RIGHTEOUS LOT wouldn't give his daughters for them to marry! These Sodomites believed in "purity" until marriage! (Gen 19:14) It was Righteous Lot who took away his own virgin daughters from their heterosexual Sodomite fianc�s to give them away to some gays who came looking for Lot's male visitors. Actually these "visitors" or angels didn't come looking for Lot at all! They INSISTED on spending the night out in the main street of Sodom! NOT AT ALL at Lot's pad (Gen 19:2-3)! They obviously knew where the action in Sodom was and they wanted to spend the night in the middle of it, but Lot wanted them all for himself! Abraham never told them that his nephew Lot lived in Sodom (Gen 19:12)! The Greek New Testament writers and editors didn't pay attention to what the previous Bible writers said about GOD or Jesus on behalf of Sodom!

There is something wrong with the Christian definition of morality! Lot's young virgin daughters knew how to brew good wine to spice up some sex parties with their own daddy Lot until HE GOT THEM PREGNANT! Lot was a resident of the City of Sodom! He was brought up in the Sodomite culture! GOD DIDN'T REPRIMAND LOT AT ALL, but he was so impressed by the way Lot sexually handled his daughters that he called him a RIGHTEOUS MAN throughout the Bible (2 Pet 2:7-8)! The angels of God got Lot and his whole family out of Sodom before it was destroyed! Lot escaped by sheer luck! Christian dishonesty in telling the Bible story of Sodom is no different from the Iranian Ayatollahs reporting the result of the elections. The gays are now paying the price! I am not gay, but I fear for my life telling like it is in the Bible. There is no trace of evidence from any other source outside of the Bible that Sodom ever existed, but assuming that it did, the Preachers hurt and persecute gays out of sheer bigotry! Now, they are preventing the fulfillment of Bible prophecies that they don't like about the FULL UNCONDITIONAL RESTORATION of Sodom!

BTW, Jesus Christ was SPECIALLY crucified in SODOM, too for the redemption of all the SODOMITES, and to make possible the FULL UNCONDITIONAL RESTORATION OF SODOM TO WHAT THEY WERE BEFORE THEIR DESTRUCTION!

Revelation 11:8 (NIV) And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified* (*Never mind the usual slaughter going on all the time in the Bible� GOD THE SON JESUS CHRIST WAS ALSO CRUCIFIED IN SODOM! Spiritually speaking, of course! What other language do the Christians speak?).

The Book of Revelation in the Bible ends up with the statement that Jesus will be surrounded FOR EVER AND EVER by 144,000 virgin Jewish guys WHO WERE NEVER DEFILED WITH WOMEN! It doesn't mean that they were not involved in sexual activities among themselves! BUT THEY NEVER TOUCHED A WOMAN! You can tell that the Bible writers of the Book of Revelation were a bunch of queers! Men in the South display bumper stickers claiming "Real Men Love Jesus, Too!" They are looking forward to the day that they will be married to Jesus in their much expected "MARRIAGE OF THE LAMB OF GOD" deal in Revelation! Marrying a "LAMB" can be a lot of fun for some kinky guys! In fact, God expected Adam to mate with some of the ANIMALS before admitting that his idea of creating Adam alone was "NO GOOD" (Gen 2:18-20)!!! So why oppose same sex marriage now of real human people loving each other? Christian cruelty in the name of their religion knows no boundaries!

Revelation (KJV) 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb* (*Jesus Christ) is come, and his wife* (*the Christians of the right Church brand) hath made herself ready* (*is this a "spiritual" reference to 144,000 Jews converted to Christianity?).

Revelation 14:4 (NIV) These* (*144,000 Virgin Jewish guys) are those who DID NOT DEFILE THEMSELVES WITH WOMEN* (*No virgin girl is ever reported coming near Jesus, only virgin GUYS!!!) for they kept themselves pure* (*they even carry a lapel button "Virgins for Christ"). THEY FOLLOW THE LAMB WHEREVER HE GOES. They were purchased* (*slave talk!) from among MEN and offered as first fruits to God and the Lamb* (*aka God the Son Jesus Christ).

The Apocalyptic Revelation of Jesus Christ for the "Latter Day Saints" says a lot about Jesus' sexual orientation! Jesus never accused the homosexuals of anything wrong! In fact he highly favored them over the Jews! It seems like the gays were made more unto "the image of God" than the Jews!

Matthew 11:24 (NIV) But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the Day of Judgment than for you."* (*BTW, a real judge would never go around disclosing the outcome of any court procedure to low IQ morons. Some of the Bible writers were very respectful of the gay community! Let's face it, the Dudes of the Holy Trinity are all male!)

Jesus, aka "The RIGHTEOUS Judge of the World" is demonstrating to have much more love and favoritism for the gays, Lesbians and prostitutes than for his own Jewish people! Yet Christians made TO BE gay the worst "sin" in the Bible! In our own lifetime under Christian pressure gays were given electroshock treatment to cure their homosexuality! Some Fundie Christians fear the USA would be destroyed like Sodom if gays are allowed to live.

The preachers and the Clergy are against the homosexuals only because it is popular to be gay bashing, especially among the Mormons! No preacher of any brand dares to broadcast the GOOD NEWS THAT THE BIBLE GOD WILL FULLY AND UNCONDITIONALLY RESTORE SODOM TO WHAT THEY WERE BEFORE THEIR DESTRUCTION� and that ought to be any time soon before the end of the world�!

Take it for what you feel it is worth...

--
Pete Zayonce
m: 0410248621
e: pete.zayonce@...

"I always wondered why somebody doesn't do something about that. Then I realized I was somebody."
� Lily Tomlin

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#6007

From: "Anthony Venn-Brown" <anthony@...>
Date: Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:59 am
Subject: RE: AMAZING BIBLE PROPHECIES...

avennbrown

Offline

It’s a bit of a strange post actually…..lots of scriptures and caps. Had a quick scan…..can you simplify your point in a couple of sentences.

Anthony

Moderator

My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.

Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from Pentecostal/Charismatic Backgrounds go to www.freedom2b.org

From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of keemoguy
Sent: Saturday, 19 December 2009 3:55 AM
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Exex-gay] AMAZING BIBLE PROPHECIES...

I'm sorry I posted the worng message!

First a bit about myself...
I am an odd ball person...
former born again Baptist minister for most of my life... now a critic of
Christianity and religion in general... I am no longer a religios person... I am
not being immoral, either! I wish to share my Bible knowledge that is being
covered up by professional preachers...

Here is the message I meant to post!

According to the Bible writers a positive sign of the return of Jesus Christ that hardly any Christian is willing to discuss is the FULL AND UNCONDITIONAL RESTORATION OF SODOM to the way that it was before it was destroyed! Preachers are PROMOTING HOMOPHOBIA on their own initiative because it is popular and Christians go for anything that will take them to Heaven when they die! Some Preachers are coward gays in the closet like the Most Reverend Ted Haggard the former US NATIONAL RELIGIOUS ADVISER to President Bush on Christian issues!

God did realize that he made a mistake in dropping the bomb on Sodom. GOD MADE A SWORN STATEMENT THAT HE WILL RESTORE SODOM TO THE WAY IT WAS...!!! This is fully documented in the portion of "God's Holy Word the Bible" that most Christians use for toilet paper!

Ezekiel 16:48-55 (NIV) [48-49] As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD* (*this is GOD speaking, not just another gay bashing Bible writer!), your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what you* (*what JERUSALEM did! Most Christians refuse to agree with God that JERUSALEM IS FAR MORE SINFUL THAN SODOM EVER WAS!) and your daughters have done. "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom* (*HEAR YE… HEAR YE Christians!): She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy...* (*Neither God the Father nor his ONLY BEGOTTEN God the Son Jesus Christ EVER MENTIONED THAT THE SIN OF SODOM was homosexuality! Jesus is making favorable statements about SODOM all along --Mat 10:15, 11:24, Mar 6:11, Luc 10:12) [53] "However, I* (*God) WILL RESTORE the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters and of Samaria and her daughters* (*if Sodom stands for gays, then Samaria must stand for Lesbians! Spiritually speaking, of course!), and your fortunes along with them… [55] And your sisters, SODOM with her daughters and Samaria with her daughters, WILL RETURN TO WHAT THEY WERE BEFORE* (*this is an UNCONDITIONAL RESTORATION of Sodom that homophobic Christians refuse to accept!); and you and your daughters will return to what you were before* (*God does not demand "repentance" or "turning away" at all in here, but a "RETURN TO WHAT THEY WERE BEFORE!" According to the Bible writers "Sodomy" was not the "sin" of Sodom, but CARELESS LIVING!)

http://www.theweek.com/article/index/99258/Debunking_gaytostraight_therapy

Jeremiah 13:23 (KJV) Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots?...

NEVER!...

Jesus never bothered trying to convert a homosexual or a lesbian into a heterosexual, but the preachers made homosexuality about the worst "sin" in the Bible! The gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and so on HAVE NO WAY TO CHANGE! Ask the Reverend Ted Haggard! The Jewish Bible writers admit that Jerusalem is far more "sinful" than Sodom ever was! Christians traditionally refuse to believe what GOD says in favor of gays! They feel comfortable with Saint Paul's hating almost everybody! He set the pattern for the rest of the NT writers!

When Christians say that they love the sinners, but hate their "sin" they actually mean that they love gays, but hate @nal sex. They also REALLY LOVE HITLER, BUT HATE KILLING JEWS! They loved the Salem Witches, but hated their witchcraft! Christians really love the atheists, but hate their Bible knowledge.

The Bible writers claim that the full restoration of SODOM must be taking place now anytime soon! There is nothing wrong in the Bible with gays and the same sex marriage issue that we hear today! Christians are passionately AGAINST the fulfillment of Bible prophecies that they don't like. The old Sodomites were much Holier and far more respectful of women than Righteous Lot was. Lot pledged his young virgin daughters for marriage to HETEROSEXUAL SODOMITES. These honorable citizens of Sodom were not necessarily people enjoying anal sex like Christians claim otherwise RIGHTEOUS LOT wouldn't give his daughters for them to marry! These Sodomites believed in "purity" until marriage! (Gen 19:14) It was Righteous Lot who took away his own virgin daughters from their heterosexual Sodomite fianc�s to give them away to some gays who came looking for Lot's male visitors. Actually these "visitors" or angels didn't come looking for Lot at all! They INSISTED on spending the night out in the main street of Sodom! NOT AT ALL at Lot's pad (Gen 19:2-3)! They obviously knew where the action in Sodom was and they wanted to spend the night in the middle of it, but Lot wanted them all for himself! Abraham never told them that his nephew Lot lived in Sodom (Gen 19:12)! The Greek New Testament writers and editors didn't pay attention to what the previous Bible writers said about GOD or Jesus on behalf of Sodom!

There is something wrong with the Christian definition of morality! Lot's young virgin daughters knew how to brew good wine to spice up some sex parties with their own daddy Lot until HE GOT THEM PREGNANT! Lot was a resident of the City of Sodom! He was brought up in the Sodomite culture! GOD DIDN'T REPRIMAND LOT AT ALL, but he was so impressed by the way Lot sexually handled his daughters that he called him a RIGHTEOUS MAN throughout the Bible (2 Pet 2:7-8)! The angels of God got Lot and his whole family out of Sodom before it was destroyed! Lot escaped by sheer luck! Christian dishonesty in telling the Bible story of Sodom is no different from the Iranian Ayatollahs reporting the result of the elections. The gays are now paying the price! I am not gay, but I fear for my life telling like it is in the Bible. There is no trace of evidence from any other source outside of the Bible that Sodom ever existed, but assuming that it did, the Preachers hurt and persecute gays out of sheer bigotry! Now, they are preventing the fulfillment of Bible prophecies that they don't like about the FULL UNCONDITIONAL RESTORATION of Sodom!

BTW, Jesus Christ was SPECIALLY crucified in SODOM, too for the redemption of all the SODOMITES, and to make possible the FULL UNCONDITIONAL RESTORATION OF SODOM TO WHAT THEY WERE BEFORE THEIR DESTRUCTION!

Revelation 11:8 (NIV) And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified* (*Never mind the usual slaughter going on all the time in the Bible… GOD THE SON JESUS CHRIST WAS ALSO CRUCIFIED IN SODOM! Spiritually speaking, of course! What other language do the Christians speak?).

The Book of Revelation in the Bible ends up with the statement that Jesus will be surrounded FOR EVER AND EVER by 144,000 virgin Jewish guys WHO WERE NEVER DEFILED WITH WOMEN! It doesn't mean that they were not involved in sexual activities among themselves! BUT THEY NEVER TOUCHED A WOMAN! You can tell that the Bible writers of the Book of Revelation were a bunch of queers! Men in the South display bumper stickers claiming "Real Men Love Jesus, Too!" They are looking forward to the day that they will be married to Jesus in their much expected "MARRIAGE OF THE LAMB OF GOD" deal in Revelation! Marrying a "LAMB" can be a lot of fun for some kinky guys! In fact, God expected Adam to mate with some of the ANIMALS before admitting that his idea of creating Adam alone was "NO GOOD" (Gen 2:18-20)!!! So why oppose same sex marriage now of real human people loving each other? Christian cruelty in the name of their religion knows no boundaries!

Revelation (KJV) 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb* (*Jesus Christ) is come, and his wife* (*the Christians of the right Church brand) hath made herself ready* (*is this a "spiritual" reference to 144,000 Jews converted to Christianity?).

Revelation 14:4 (NIV) These* (*144,000 Virgin Jewish guys) are those who DID NOT DEFILE THEMSELVES WITH WOMEN* (*No virgin girl is ever reported coming near Jesus, only virgin GUYS!!!) for they kept themselves pure* (*they even carry a lapel button "Virgins for Christ"). THEY FOLLOW THE LAMB WHEREVER HE GOES. They were purchased* (*slave talk!) from among MEN and offered as first fruits to God and the Lamb* (*aka God the Son Jesus Christ).

The Apocalyptic Revelation of Jesus Christ for the "Latter Day Saints" says a lot about Jesus' sexual orientation! Jesus never accused the homosexuals of anything wrong! In fact he highly favored them over the Jews! It seems like the gays were made more unto "the image of God" than the Jews!

Matthew 11:24 (NIV) But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the Day of Judgment than for you."* (*BTW, a real judge would never go around disclosing the outcome of any court procedure to low IQ morons. Some of the Bible writers were very respectful of the gay community! Let's face it, the Dudes of the Holy Trinity are all male!)

Jesus, aka "The RIGHTEOUS Judge of the World" is demonstrating to have much more love and favoritism for the gays, Lesbians and prostitutes than for his own Jewish people! Yet Christians made TO BE gay the worst "sin" in the Bible! In our own lifetime under Christian pressure gays were given electroshock treatment to cure their homosexuality! Some Fundie Christians fear the USA would be destroyed like Sodom if gays are allowed to live.

The preachers and the Clergy are against the homosexuals only because it is popular to be gay bashing, especially among the Mormons! No preacher of any brand dares to broadcast the GOOD NEWS THAT THE BIBLE GOD WILL FULLY AND UNCONDITIONALLY RESTORE SODOM TO WHAT THEY WERE BEFORE THEIR DESTRUCTION… and that ought to be any time soon before the end of the world…!

Take it for what you feel it is worth...

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Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)

#6006

From: "keemoguy" <keemosabe7@...>
Date: Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:55 pm
Subject: AMAZING BIBLE PROPHECIES...

keemoguy

Offline

I'm sorry I posted the worng message!

First a bit about myself...
I am an odd ball person...
former born again Baptist minister for most of my life... now a critic of
Christianity and religion in general... I am no longer a religios person... I am
not being immoral, either! I wish to share my Bible knowledge that is being
covered up by professional preachers...

Here is the message I meant to post!

According to the Bible writers a positive sign of the return of Jesus Christ
that hardly any Christian is willing to discuss is the FULL AND UNCONDITIONAL
RESTORATION OF SODOM to the way that it was before it was destroyed! Preachers
are PROMOTING HOMOPHOBIA on their own initiative because it is popular and
Christians go for anything that will take them to Heaven when they die! Some
Preachers are coward gays in the closet like the Most Reverend Ted Haggard the
former US NATIONAL RELIGIOUS ADVISER to President Bush on Christian issues!

God did realize that he made a mistake in dropping the bomb on Sodom. GOD MADE A
SWORN STATEMENT THAT HE WILL RESTORE SODOM TO THE WAY IT WAS...!!!  This is
fully documented in the portion of "God's Holy Word the Bible" that most
Christians use for toilet paper!

Ezekiel 16:48-55 (NIV) [48-49] As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD*
(*this is GOD speaking, not just another gay bashing Bible writer!), your sister
Sodom and her daughters never did what you* (*what JERUSALEM did! Most
Christians refuse to agree with God that JERUSALEM IS FAR MORE SINFUL THAN SODOM
EVER WAS!) and your daughters have done. "Now this was the sin of your sister
Sodom* (*HEAR YE� HEAR YE Christians!): She and her daughters were arrogant,
overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy...* (*Neither God
the Father nor his ONLY BEGOTTEN God the Son Jesus Christ EVER MENTIONED THAT
THE SIN OF SODOM was homosexuality! Jesus is making favorable statements about
SODOM all along --Mat 10:15, 11:24, Mar 6:11, Luc 10:12) [53] "However, I*
(*God) WILL RESTORE the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters and of Samaria and
her daughters* (*if Sodom stands for gays, then Samaria must stand for Lesbians!
Spiritually speaking, of course!), and your fortunes along with them� [55] And
your sisters, SODOM with her daughters and Samaria with her daughters, WILL
RETURN TO WHAT THEY WERE BEFORE* (*this is an UNCONDITIONAL RESTORATION of Sodom
that homophobic Christians refuse to accept!); and you and your daughters will
return to what you were before* (*God does not demand "repentance" or "turning
away" at all in here, but a "RETURN TO WHAT THEY WERE BEFORE!" According to the
Bible writers "Sodomy" was not the "sin" of Sodom, but CARELESS LIVING!)

http://www.theweek.com/article/index/99258/Debunking_gaytostraight_therapy

Jeremiah 13:23 (KJV) Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his
spots?...

NEVER!...

Jesus never bothered trying to convert a homosexual or a lesbian into a
heterosexual, but the preachers made homosexuality about the worst "sin" in the
Bible! The gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and so on HAVE NO WAY TO CHANGE! Ask the
Reverend Ted Haggard! The Jewish Bible writers admit that Jerusalem is far more
"sinful" than Sodom ever was! Christians traditionally refuse to believe what
GOD says in favor of gays! They feel comfortable with Saint Paul's hating almost
everybody! He set the pattern for the rest of the NT writers!

When Christians say that they love the sinners, but hate their "sin" they
actually mean that they love gays, but hate @nal sex. They also REALLY LOVE
HITLER, BUT HATE KILLING JEWS! They loved the Salem Witches, but hated their
witchcraft! Christians really love the atheists, but hate their Bible knowledge.

The Bible writers claim that the full restoration of SODOM must be taking place
now anytime soon! There is nothing wrong in the Bible with gays and the same sex
marriage issue that we hear today! Christians are passionately AGAINST the
fulfillment of Bible prophecies that they don't like. The old Sodomites were
much Holier and far more respectful of women than Righteous Lot was. Lot pledged
his young virgin daughters for marriage to HETEROSEXUAL SODOMITES. These
honorable citizens of Sodom were not necessarily people enjoying anal sex like
Christians claim otherwise RIGHTEOUS LOT wouldn't give his daughters for them to
marry! These Sodomites believed in "purity" until marriage! (Gen 19:14) It was
Righteous Lot who took away his own virgin daughters from their heterosexual
Sodomite fianc�s to give them away to some gays who came looking for Lot's male
visitors. Actually these "visitors" or angels didn't come looking for Lot at
all! They INSISTED on spending the night out in the main street of Sodom! NOT AT
ALL at Lot's pad (Gen 19:2-3)! They obviously knew where the action in Sodom was
and they wanted to spend the night in the middle of it, but Lot wanted them all
for himself! Abraham never told them that his nephew Lot lived in Sodom (Gen
19:12)!  The Greek New Testament writers and editors didn't pay attention to
what the previous Bible writers said about GOD or Jesus on behalf of Sodom!

There is something wrong with the Christian definition of morality! Lot's young
virgin daughters knew how to brew good wine to spice up some sex parties with
their own daddy Lot until HE GOT THEM PREGNANT! Lot was a resident of the City
of Sodom!  He was brought up in the Sodomite culture! GOD DIDN'T REPRIMAND LOT
AT ALL, but he was so impressed by the way Lot sexually handled his daughters
that he called him a RIGHTEOUS MAN throughout the Bible (2 Pet 2:7-8)! The
angels of God got Lot and his whole family out of Sodom before it was destroyed!
Lot escaped by sheer luck! Christian dishonesty in telling the Bible story of
Sodom is no different from the Iranian Ayatollahs reporting the result of the
elections. The gays are now paying the price! I am not gay, but I fear for my
life telling like it is in the Bible. There is no trace of evidence from any
other source outside of the Bible that Sodom ever existed, but assuming that it
did, the Preachers hurt and persecute gays out of sheer bigotry!  Now, they are
preventing the fulfillment of Bible prophecies that they don't like about the
FULL UNCONDITIONAL RESTORATION of Sodom!

BTW, Jesus Christ was SPECIALLY crucified in SODOM, too for the redemption of
all the SODOMITES, and to make possible the FULL UNCONDITIONAL RESTORATION OF
SODOM TO WHAT THEY WERE BEFORE THEIR DESTRUCTION!

Revelation 11:8 (NIV) And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great
city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was
crucified* (*Never mind the usual slaughter going on all the time in the Bible�
GOD THE SON JESUS CHRIST WAS ALSO CRUCIFIED IN SODOM! Spiritually speaking, of
course! What other language do the Christians speak?).

The Book of Revelation in the Bible ends up with the statement that Jesus will
be surrounded FOR EVER AND EVER by 144,000 virgin Jewish guys WHO WERE NEVER
DEFILED WITH WOMEN!  It doesn't mean that they were not involved in sexual
activities among themselves! BUT THEY NEVER TOUCHED A WOMAN!  You can tell that
the Bible writers of the Book of Revelation were a bunch of queers! Men in the
South display bumper stickers claiming "Real Men Love Jesus, Too!"  They are
looking forward to the day that they will be married to Jesus in their much
expected "MARRIAGE OF THE LAMB OF GOD" deal in Revelation! Marrying a "LAMB" can
be a lot of fun for some kinky guys! In fact, God expected Adam to mate with
some of the ANIMALS before admitting that his idea of creating Adam alone was
"NO GOOD" (Gen 2:18-20)!!! So why oppose same sex marriage now of real human
people loving each other? Christian cruelty in the name of their religion knows
no boundaries!

Revelation (KJV) 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for
the marriage of the Lamb* (*Jesus Christ) is come, and his wife* (*the
Christians of the right Church brand) hath made herself ready* (*is this a
"spiritual" reference to 144,000 Jews converted to Christianity?).

Revelation 14:4 (NIV) These* (*144,000 Virgin Jewish guys) are those who DID NOT
DEFILE THEMSELVES WITH WOMEN* (*No virgin girl is ever reported coming near
Jesus, only virgin GUYS!!!) for they kept themselves pure* (*they even carry a
lapel button "Virgins for Christ"). THEY FOLLOW THE LAMB WHEREVER HE GOES. They
were purchased* (*slave talk!) from among MEN and offered as first fruits to God
and the Lamb* (*aka God the Son Jesus Christ).

The Apocalyptic Revelation of Jesus Christ for the "Latter Day Saints" says a
lot about Jesus' sexual orientation! Jesus never accused the homosexuals of
anything wrong! In fact he highly favored them over the Jews! It seems like the
gays were made more unto "the image of God" than the Jews!

Matthew 11:24 (NIV) But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on
the Day of Judgment than for you."* (*BTW, a real judge would never go around
disclosing the outcome of any court procedure to low IQ morons. Some of the
Bible writers were very respectful of the gay community! Let's face it, the
Dudes of the Holy Trinity are all male!)

Jesus, aka "The RIGHTEOUS Judge of the World" is demonstrating to have much more
love and favoritism for the gays, Lesbians and prostitutes than for his own
Jewish people! Yet Christians made TO BE gay the worst "sin" in the Bible! In
our own lifetime under Christian pressure gays were given electroshock treatment
to cure their homosexuality! Some Fundie Christians fear the USA would be
destroyed like Sodom if gays are allowed to live.

The preachers and the Clergy are against the homosexuals only because it is
popular to be gay bashing, especially among the Mormons! No preacher of any
brand dares to broadcast the GOOD NEWS THAT THE BIBLE GOD WILL FULLY AND
UNCONDITIONALLY RESTORE SODOM TO WHAT THEY WERE BEFORE THEIR DESTRUCTION� and
that ought to be any time soon before the end of the world�!

Take it for what you feel it is worth...

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)

#6003

From: "Anthony Venn-Brown" <anthony@...>
Date: Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:50 am
Subject: RE: Update

avennbrown

Offline

So true Korry…….people will read that 1,000’s of people had tried to change their sexual orientation……and they’ll say

WHAT THE &%#K?....why would they want to do that.

Anthony Venn-Brown

An Ambassador for the GLBT Community

Award winning author of 'A Life of Unlearning - A Journey to Find the Truth'

Co-convenor of Freedom 2 b[e]

Honoured to be on the inaugural list of the 25 Most Influential Gay & Lesbian Australians

Tel: + 61 (0)2 9699 2448 Mobile: +61 (0)416 015 231

"The enemy is ignorance"

"My morality is a choice, my sexual orientation however isn't'

'When we choose to live authentically, we chip away at others' prisons of pretend'

Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook.com/gayambassador

Follow me on Twitter https://twitter.com/gayambassador

My YouTube Channel is here http://www.youtube.com/user/avb7

From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Korry Korry
Sent: Monday, 14 December 2009 11:54 AM
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] Update

Well, thank God I was never all that deeply involved in this movement. More, I just contemplated joining it.

Times have changed over the years, and so have I. I know that a number of guys, just like the one I knew, tried to "jump ship" back in the 80's when AIDS arrived. For a lot of men, seeing all their friends suddenly get sick and die stirred up a huge swell of religious guilt from their childhoods that they never fully dealt with. Some, like this guy, opted to capitulate to it, at least in his words, if not his actions.

The thing is, while HIV infection rates are still high, people are not automatically getting sick and dying like they once did because of cocktail protease inhibitors. Not that this is all a good thing, because it has resulted in a certain complacency about safe sex, especially among young people. Still, the "shock" of HIV no longer exists.

Furthermore, a new generation of gay men are growing up without hardly ever having lived in a closet, and are much more free of shame and low self-esteem than we were thirty or forty years ago. I recently met a young man, age 21, who went to a private secondary school in America. Not only was he out at an early age, so was his boyfriend, a member of the school's football team. In other words, he had a completely typical adolescence, being open about who he was, and being able to date his fellow students freely and without condemnation.

As this continues, the "ex-gay" movement will eventually become a relic of history.

--- On Sat, 12/12/09, Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...> wrote:

From: Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...>
Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] Update
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, December 12, 2009, 9:27 PM

I can understand your dilemma Korry. Whatever you decide though people should respect you for that.

Glad you contacted the ex-gay watch guys……..good guys.

I find it difficult to get ex-gayers to come out of the closet about their experience. I understand having been through it myself.

Coming out about your ex-gay experience can be difficult because.

1. We’ve often been traumatized and to speak about it triggers the trauma again

2. We want to move on

3. Some received some positive experiences whilst in ex-gay programs and to speak out feels like you are attacking the individuals

For me……..I just received so many emails from readers telling me their sad and tragic stories….and began to become more aware of the suicides…..so I couldn’t remain silent.

Anthony Venn-Brown

An Ambassador for the GLBT Community

Award winning author of 'A Life of Unlearning - A Journey to Find the Truth'

Co-convenor of Freedom 2 b[e]

Honoured to be on the inaugural list of the 25 Most Influential Gay & Lesbian Australians

Tel: + 61 (0)2 9699 2448 Mobile: +61 (0)416 015 231

"The enemy is ignorance"

"My morality is a choice, my sexual orientation however isn't'

'When we choose to live authentically, we chip away at others' prisons of pretend'

Blog: http://alifeofunlea rning.blogspot. com/

Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook .com/gayambassad or

Follow me on Twitter https://twitter. com/gayambassado r

My YouTube Channel is here http://www.youtube. com/user/ avb7

From: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:Exex- gay@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Korry Korry
Sent: Sunday, 13 December 2009 1:25 AM
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com
Subject: [Exex-gay] Update

I sent my story to exgaywatch.com, and later talked to one of the editors, who said that they could not run without identifying me by name, otherwise, of course, they'd be accused of false journalism. Since I am a professional journalist, I take their point seriously. So I might wait a bit. My problem is that I began a mid-life career change to journalism (and filmmaking) a few years ago, and have worked very hard to make a name for myself in the process. I am not in the closet, but my big problem in announcing myself as the guy who had sex with the nastily homophobic leader of an ex-gay ministry, who was recently lauded as an example for the rest of us by the self-hating closet-case Chief of Staff for an extremist conservative American senator, is that this would catch fire across the blogosphere, and henceforth, I would not be known for my work, but for a sex scandal. And I don't want all my life's accomplishments to be a mere footnote to that.

And would this change any conservative, deluded minds? I wonder; no matter how many embarrassing and discrediting scandals the ex-gay movement suffers, they seem to hold as fast to their fantasies about ex-gayism as they hold on to their belief in creationism (I once dated a gay Christian who believed in creationism, by the way, but that is another story).

I am still trying to find this particular individual from my past so I can talk to him, but his ministry now is nothing more than a post office box (which I have written to), but as for himself, he has one of those uber-generic Anglo names (along the lines of "John Smith") shared by literally millions of men, thus searching him out via online directories is difficult.

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2561 - Release Date: 12/12/09 19:39:00

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2561 - Release Date: 12/13/09 19:47:00

#6002

From: Korry Korry <korrykorrykoan@...>
Date: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:54 am
Subject: RE: Update

korrykorrykoan

Offline

Well, thank God I was never all that deeply involved in this movement. More, I just contemplated joining it.

As this continues, the "ex-gay" movement will eventually become a relic of history.

--- On Sat, 12/12/09, Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...> wrote:

From: Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...>
Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] Update
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, December 12, 2009, 9:27 PM

I can understand your dilemma Korry. Whatever you decide though people should respect you for that.

Glad you contacted the ex-gay watch guys……..good guys.

I find it difficult to get ex-gayers to come out of the closet about their experience. I understand having been through it myself.

Coming out about your ex-gay experience can be difficult because.

1.     We’ve often been traumatized and to speak about it triggers the trauma again

2.     We want to move on

3.     Some received some positive experiences whilst in ex-gay programs and to speak out feels like you are attacking the individuals

For me……..I just received so many emails from readers telling me their sad and tragic stories….and began to become more aware of the suicides…..so I couldn’t remain silent.

Anthony Venn-Brown

An Ambassador for the GLBT Community

Award winning author of 'A Life of Unlearning - A Journey to Find the Truth'

Co-convenor of Freedom 2 b[e]

Honoured to be on the inaugural list of the 25 Most Influential Gay & Lesbian Australians

Tel: + 61 (0)2 9699 2448 Mobile: +61 (0)416 015 231

"The enemy is ignorance"

"My morality is a choice, my sexual orientation however isn't'

'When we choose to live authentically, we chip away at others' prisons of pretend'

Blog: http://alifeofunlea rning.blogspot. com/

Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook .com/gayambassad or

Become a fan of 'A Life of Unlearning' on Facebook

Follow me on Twitter https://twitter. com/gayambassado r

My YouTube Channel is here http://www.youtube. com/user/ avb7

From: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:Exex- gay@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Korry Korry
Sent: Sunday, 13 December 2009 1:25 AM
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com
Subject: [Exex-gay] Update

I sent my story to exgaywatch.com, and later talked to one of the editors, who said that they could not run without identifying me by name, otherwise, of course, they'd be accused of false journalism. Since I am a professional journalist, I take their point seriously. So I might wait a bit. My problem is that I began a mid-life career change to journalism (and filmmaking) a few years ago, and have worked very hard to make a name for myself in the process. I am not in the closet, but my big problem in announcing myself as the guy who had sex with the nastily homophobic leader of an ex-gay ministry, who was recently lauded as an example for the rest of us by the self-hating closet-case Chief of Staff for an extremist conservative American senator, is that this would catch fire across the blogosphere, and henceforth, I would not be known for my work, but for a sex scandal. And I don't want all my life's accomplishments to be a mere footnote to that.

And would this change any conservative, deluded minds? I wonder; no matter how many embarrassing and discrediting scandals the ex-gay movement suffers, they seem to hold as fast to their fantasies about ex-gayism as they hold on to their belief in creationism (I once dated a gay Christian who believed in creationism, by the way, but that is another story).

I am still trying to find this particular individual from my past so I can talk to him, but his ministry now is nothing more than a post office box (which I have written to), but as for himself, he has one of those uber-generic Anglo names (along the lines of "John Smith") shared by literally millions of men, thus searching him out via online directories is difficult.

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2561 - Release Date: 12/12/09 19:39:00

#6001

From: "Anthony Venn-Brown" <anthony@...>
Date: Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:27 am
Subject: RE: Update

avennbrown

Offline

I can understand your dilemma Korry. Whatever you decide though people should respect you for that.

Glad you contacted the ex-gay watch guys……..good guys.

I find it difficult to get ex-gayers to come out of the closet about their experience. I understand having been through it myself.

Coming out about your ex-gay experience can be difficult because.

1. We’ve often been traumatized and to speak about it triggers the trauma again

2. We want to move on

3. Some received some positive experiences whilst in ex-gay programs and to speak out feels like you are attacking the individuals

For me……..I just received so many emails from readers telling me their sad and tragic stories….and began to become more aware of the suicides…..so I couldn’t remain silent.

Anthony Venn-Brown

An Ambassador for the GLBT Community

Award winning author of 'A Life of Unlearning - A Journey to Find the Truth'

Co-convenor of Freedom 2 b[e]

Honoured to be on the inaugural list of the 25 Most Influential Gay & Lesbian Australians

Tel: + 61 (0)2 9699 2448 Mobile: +61 (0)416 015 231

"The enemy is ignorance"

"My morality is a choice, my sexual orientation however isn't'

'When we choose to live authentically, we chip away at others' prisons of pretend'

Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook.com/gayambassador

Follow me on Twitter https://twitter.com/gayambassador

My YouTube Channel is here http://www.youtube.com/user/avb7

From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Korry Korry
Sent: Sunday, 13 December 2009 1:25 AM
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Exex-gay] Update

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.105/2561 - Release Date: 12/12/09 19:39:00

#6000

From: Korry Korry <korrykorrykoan@...>
Date: Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:24 pm
Subject: Update

korrykorrykoan

Offline

#5999

From: "Anthony Venn-Brown" <anthony@...>
Date: Tue Dec 8, 2009 3:06 am
Subject: RE: Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy

avennbrown

Offline

Yep…..I thought it was a good article as well. Nothing really new as you know from personal experience Korry.

Outdated concepts, debunked theories,….playing on peoples vulnerabilities……..leaders not really having a clue for the basis of their work…..people still leading double lives of denial….it’s all pretty clear and standard isn’t it.

Like I said in my presentation at the ex-gay survivors conference in Florida recently… …I think ex-gay ministries are more the symptom than the cause.

What did you think of the article Korry.

Anthony

Moderator

My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.

http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Exex- gay

Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from Pentecostal/Charismatic Backgrounds go to www.freedom2b.org

From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Korry Korry
Sent: Monday, 7 December 2009 12:23 PM
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy

Well, I have a MacBook, and experienced no problems -- yet. Thanks for posting the text, Peter, and sorry for any unintentional problems regarding the link.

Now (asking in my most civil voice) can we get on to a discussion of the article itself?

--- On Sun, 12/6/09, Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...> wrote:

From: Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...>
Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 8:16 PM

Nice to have help desk facilities in the group as well.

Thanks Pete……hope you had a great time the rest of the night on Friday. I hit the wall…..and was glad I left when I did.

Anthony

Moderator

My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.

Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from Pentecostal/ Charismatic Backgrounds go to www.freedom2b. org

From: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:Exex- gay@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Pete Zayonce
Sent: Monday, 7 December 2009 10:40 AM
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com
Subject: Re: [Exex-gay] Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy

Hi Ninure,

I'm simply reporting the results of the McAfee site advisor that blocked the site before I even landed on it. I surfed it in safe mode & the virus scanner detected 2 attempts to insert files from the site. Usually it is not the site, but a script or something that can sometimes be hidden in the comments or advertising of a site.

If you have been using the site for a year, I would strongly recommend scanning your PC - particularly if, in the past few months, you have noticed it going slower than what it was before.

Regards,

Pete

2009/12/7 Rev. Ninure D. Saunders <ninure@yahoo. com>

I have been using the alter-Net site for over a year now....

I think that something else may have "attacked" your PC,

Pax Christi,
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
My Blog
http://blog. myspace.com/ rainbow_christia n
Be my Friend on MySpace:
http://www.myspace. com/reloc. cfm?c=2&id=a75aba99- 1279-4e87- 8cfc-b359823723e c
============ ========= ======
"All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second, it is violently opposed; Third, it is accepted as self-evident." -- Arthur Schopenhauer

People often say with pride, “I’m not interested in politics.” They might as well say, “I’m not interested in my standard of living, my health, my job, my rights, my freedoms, my future, or any future.”
— Martha Gellhorn, writer/journalist (1908-1998

Live simply. Love generously.
Care deeply. Speak kindly.
Leave the rest to God.

--- On Sun, 12/6/09, Pete Zayonce <pete.zayonce@ gmail.com> wrote:

From: Pete Zayonce <pete.zayonce@ gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Exex-gay] Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com
Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 3:49 PM

Be careful of the website that Korry posted - it contains malware & viruses. It tried to install something on my PC. I've copied the text of the article below:

2009/12/7 Korry Korry <korrykorrykoan@ yahoo.com>

Ted Cox posed as a gay man to infiltrate gay-to-straight therapy programs. What he found was equal parts shocking and tragic.

http://www.alternet .org/sex/ 144390/going_ undercover_ in_the_crazy, _tragic_world_ of_christian_ gay-conversion_ therapy?page= 1

--
Pete Zayonce
m: 0410248621
e: pete.zayonce@ gmail.com

"I always wondered why somebody doesn't do something about that. Then I realized I was somebody."
– Lily Tomlin

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: 12/06/09 19:37:00

#5998

From: "Rev. Ninure D. Saunders" <ninure@...>
Date: Mon Dec 7, 2009 12:03 pm
Subject: RE: Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy

ninure

Offline

I thought it was a great article.

It was telling that those "people" admitted they were not professionals, and I wonder why they are allowed to operate.

Pax Christi,
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
My Blog
http://blog.myspace.com/rainbow_christian
Be my Friend on MySpace:
http://www.myspace.com/reloc.cfm?c=2&id=a75aba99-1279-4e87-8cfc-b359823723ec
===========================
"All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second, it is violently opposed; Third, it is accepted as self-evident." -- Arthur Schopenhauer

People often say with pride, “I’m not interested in politics.” They might as well say, “I’m not interested in my standard of living, my health, my job, my rights, my freedoms, my future, or any future.”
— Martha Gellhorn, writer/journalist (1908-1998

Live simply. Love generously.
Care deeply. Speak kindly.
Leave the rest to God.

--- On Sun, 12/6/09, Korry Korry <korrykorrykoan@...> wrote:

From: Korry Korry <korrykorrykoan@...>
Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 7:23 PM

#5997

From: Korry Korry <korrykorrykoan@...>
Date: Mon Dec 7, 2009 1:23 am
Subject: RE: Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy

korrykorrykoan

Offline

Well, I have a MacBook, and experienced no problems -- yet. Thanks for posting the text, Peter, and sorry for any unintentional problems regarding the link.

Now (asking in my most civil voice) can we get on to a discussion of the article itself?

--- On Sun, 12/6/09, Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...> wrote:

From: Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...>
Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 8:16 PM

Nice to have help desk facilities in the group as well.

Thanks Pete……hope you had a great time the rest of the night on Friday. I hit the wall…..and was glad I left when I did.

Anthony

Moderator

http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/Exex- gay

My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.

Freedom 2 B(e)

Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from Pentecostal/ Charismatic Backgrounds go to www.freedom2b. org

From: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:Exex- gay@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Pete Zayonce
Sent: Monday, 7 December 2009 10:40 AM
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com
Subject: Re: [Exex-gay] Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy

Hi Ninure,

I'm simply reporting the results of the McAfee site advisor that blocked the site before I even landed on it. I surfed it in safe mode & the virus scanner detected 2 attempts to insert files from the site. Usually it is not the site, but a script or something that can sometimes be hidden in the comments or advertising of a site.

If you have been using the site for a year, I would strongly recommend scanning your PC - particularly if, in the past few months, you have noticed it going slower than what it was before.

Regards,

Pete

2009/12/7 Rev. Ninure D. Saunders <ninure@yahoo. com>

I have been using the alter-Net site for over a year now....

I think that something else may have "attacked" your PC,

Pax Christi,
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
My Blog
http://blog. myspace.com/ rainbow_christia n
Be my Friend on MySpace:
http://www.myspace. com/reloc. cfm?c=2&id=a75aba99- 1279-4e87- 8cfc-b359823723e c
============ ========= ======
"All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second, it is violently opposed; Third, it is accepted as self-evident." -- Arthur Schopenhauer

People often say with pride, “I’m not interested in politics.” They might as well say, “I’m not interested in my standard of living, my health, my job, my rights, my freedoms, my future, or any future.”
— Martha Gellhorn, writer/journalist (1908-1998

Live simply. Love generously.
Care deeply. Speak kindly.
Leave the rest to God.

--- On Sun, 12/6/09, Pete Zayonce <pete.zayonce@ gmail.com> wrote:

From: Pete Zayonce <pete.zayonce@ gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Exex-gay] Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com
Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 3:49 PM

Be careful of the website that Korry posted - it contains malware & viruses. It tried to install something on my PC. I've copied the text of the article below:

2009/12/7 Korry Korry <korrykorrykoan@ yahoo.com>

Ted Cox posed as a gay man to infiltrate gay-to-straight therapy programs. What he found was equal parts shocking and tragic.

http://www.alternet .org/sex/ 144390/going_ undercover_ in_the_crazy, _tragic_world_ of_christian_ gay-conversion_ therapy?page= 1

--
Pete Zayonce
m: 0410248621
e: pete.zayonce@ gmail.com

"I always wondered why somebody doesn't do something about that. Then I realized I was somebody."
– Lily Tomlin

--
Pete Zayonce
m: 0410248621
e: pete.zayonce@ gmail.com

"I always wondered why somebody doesn't do something about that. Then I realized I was somebody."
– Lily Tomlin

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: 12/06/09 19:37:00

#5996

From: "Anthony Venn-Brown" <anthony@...>
Date: Mon Dec 7, 2009 1:16 am
Subject: RE: Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy

avennbrown

Offline

Nice to have help desk facilities in the group as well.

Thanks Pete……hope you had a great time the rest of the night on Friday. I hit the wall…..and was glad I left when I did.

Anthony

Moderator

My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.

Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from Pentecostal/Charismatic Backgrounds go to www.freedom2b.org

From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Pete Zayonce
Sent: Monday, 7 December 2009 10:40 AM
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Exex-gay] Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy

Hi Ninure,

If you have been using the site for a year, I would strongly recommend scanning your PC - particularly if, in the past few months, you have noticed it going slower than what it was before.

Regards,

Pete

2009/12/7 Rev. Ninure D. Saunders <ninure@...>

I have been using the alter-Net site for over a year now....

I think that something else may have "attacked" your PC,

Pax Christi,
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
My Blog
http://blog.myspace.com/rainbow_christian
Be my Friend on MySpace:
http://www.myspace.com/reloc.cfm?c=2&id=a75aba99-1279-4e87-8cfc-b359823723ec
===========================
"All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second, it is violently opposed; Third, it is accepted as self-evident." -- Arthur Schopenhauer

People often say with pride, “I’m not interested in politics.” They might as well say, “I’m not interested in my standard of living, my health, my job, my rights, my freedoms, my future, or any future.”
— Martha Gellhorn, writer/journalist (1908-1998

Live simply. Love generously.
Care deeply. Speak kindly.
Leave the rest to God.

--- On Sun, 12/6/09, Pete Zayonce <pete.zayonce@...> wrote:

From: Pete Zayonce <pete.zayonce@...>
Subject: Re: [Exex-gay] Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 3:49 PM

Be careful of the website that Korry posted - it contains malware & viruses. It tried to install something on my PC. I've copied the text of the article below:

2009/12/7 Korry Korry <korrykorrykoan@ yahoo.com>

--
Pete Zayonce
m: 0410248621
e: pete.zayonce@ gmail.com

"I always wondered why somebody doesn't do something about that. Then I realized I was somebody."
– Lily Tomlin

--
Pete Zayonce
m: 0410248621
e: pete.zayonce@...

"I always wondered why somebody doesn't do something about that. Then I realized I was somebody."
– Lily Tomlin

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: 12/06/09 19:37:00

#5995

From: Pete Zayonce <pete.zayonce@...>
Date: Sun Dec 6, 2009 11:39 pm
Subject: Re: Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy

guylian2002

Offline

Hi Ninure,

I'm simply reporting the results of the McAfee site advisor that blocked the site before I even landed on it. �I surfed it in safe mode & the virus scanner detected 2 attempts to insert files from the site. �Usually it is not the site, but a script or something that can sometimes be hidden in the comments or advertising of a site.

If you have been using the site for a year, I would strongly recommend scanning your PC - particularly if, in the past few months, you have noticed it going slower than what it was before.

Regards,

Pete

2009/12/7 Rev. Ninure D. Saunders <ninure@...>

�

I have been using the alter-Net site for over a year now....

I think that something else may have "attacked" your PC,

Pax Christi,
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
My Blog
http://blog.myspace.com/rainbow_christian
Be my Friend on MySpace:
http://www.myspace.com/reloc.cfm?c=2&id=a75aba99-1279-4e87-8cfc-b359823723ec
===========================
"All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second, it is violently opposed; Third, it is accepted as self-evident." -- Arthur Schopenhauer

People often say with pride, �I�m not interested in politics.� They might as well say, �I�m not interested in my standard of living, my health, my job, my rights, my freedoms, my future, or any future.�
� Martha Gellhorn, writer/journalist (1908-1998

Live simply. Love generously.
Care deeply. Speak kindly.
Leave the rest to God.

--- On Sun, 12/6/09, Pete Zayonce <pete.zayonce@...> wrote:

From: Pete Zayonce <pete.zayonce@...>
Subject: Re: [Exex-gay] Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 3:49 PM

�

Be careful of the website that Korry posted - it contains malware & viruses. �It tried to install something on my PC. �I've copied the text of the article below:

2009/12/7 Korry Korry <korrykorrykoan@ yahoo.com>

�

Ted Cox posed as a gay man to infiltrate gay-to-straight therapy programs. What he found was equal parts shocking and tragic.

http://www.alternet .org/sex/ 144390/going_ undercover_ in_the_crazy, _tragic_world_ of_christian_ gay-conversion_ therapy?page= 1

--
Pete Zayonce
m: 0410248621
e: pete.zayonce@ gmail.com

"I always wondered why somebody doesn't do something about that. Then I realized I was somebody."
� Lily Tomlin

--
Pete Zayonce
m: 0410248621
e: pete.zayonce@...

"I always wondered why somebody doesn't do something about that. Then I realized I was somebody."
� Lily Tomlin

#5994

From: "Anthony Venn-Brown" <anthony@...>
Date: Sun Dec 6, 2009 11:23 pm
Subject: RE: A Dillema

avennbrown

Offline

If you do Korry…..and you need help with connections…..I know all the guys in the US who will handle this for you.

Anthony Venn-Brown

An Ambassador for the GLBT Community

Award winning author of 'A Life of Unlearning - A Journey to Find the Truth'

Co-convenor of Freedom 2 b[e]

Honoured to be on the inaugural list of the 25 Most Influential Gay & Lesbian Australians

"The enemy is ignorance"

"My morality is a choice, my sexual orientation however isn't'

'When we choose to live authentically, we chip away at others' prisons of pretend'

Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook.com/gayambassador

Follow me on Twitter https://twitter.com/gayambassador

My YouTube Channel is here

From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Korry Korry
Sent: Sunday, 6 December 2009 3:35 AM
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] A Dillema

After much Google searching, I found that this individual -- this martyr-hero among conservative evangelicals and politicians for his showing the way to be "ex-gay" -- still has his ministry going, if only as a post office box address. I wrote to him over a week ago, asking him to e-mail me back. I still have not gotten a reply. More and more I am thinking of simply going forward and making a statement to the media.

--- On Wed, 11/25/09, Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...> wrote:

From: Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...>
Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] A Dillema
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 12:38 PM

Certainly is a dilemma Korry.

If I was in your situation I’d approach him first to let see where he is at. The best outcome would be that he would be honest himself.

I wonder what others feel.

Anthony Venn-Brown

An Ambassador for the GLBT Community

Award winning author of 'A Life of Unlearning - A Journey to Find the Truth'

Co-convenor of Freedom 2 b[e]

Honoured to be on the inaugural list of the 25 Most Influential Gay & Lesbian Australians

"The enemy is ignorance"

"My morality is a choice, my sexual orientation however isn't'

'When we choose to live authentically, we chip away at others' prisons of pretend'

Blog: http://alifeofunlea rning.blogspot. com/

Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook .com/gayambassad or

Follow me on Twitter https://twitter. com/gayambassado r

My YouTube Channel is here

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.81/2524 - Release Date: 11/24/09 19:37:00

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.91/2541 - Release Date: 12/06/09 19:37:00

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (24)

#5993

From: "Anthony Venn-Brown" <anthony@...>
Date: Sun Dec 6, 2009 11:23 pm
Subject: RE: Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy

avennbrown

Offline

Thanks for the alert Pete

Anthony

Moderator

My sexual orientation is not a sickness to be healed or a sin to be forgiven. My sexual orientation is a gift from my Creator to be accepted, celebrated, and lived with integrity.

Support - Information - Dialogue for GLBTIQ People from Pentecostal/Charismatic Backgrounds go to www.freedom2b.org

From: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Pete Zayonce
Sent: Monday, 7 December 2009 8:49 AM
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Exex-gay] Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy

Be careful of the website that Korry posted - it contains malware & viruses. It tried to install something on my PC. I've copied the text of the article below:

Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy

By Sena Christian, AlterNet
Posted on December 5, 2009, Printed on December 6, 2009
http://www.alternet.org/story/144390/

Over the course of the past two years, writer Ted Cox posed as a gay man. He attended weekly meetings for several months at two churches in California and a two-day camp at a ranch in northern Arizona in February, both geared toward one end: turning homosexual men and women straight. Last week, I sat down with my friend, Cox, to hear about his experience going undercover in Christian gay-to-straight therapy programs.

Sena Christian: What made you want to learn more about the Christian gay-to-straight movement?

Ted Cox: I was born and raised in the Mormon church and even after I became non-religious, I was still fascinated with religion. This was a cool intersection of religion, subculture, sex and equal rights.

SC: What exactly interested you?

TC: I first heard about gay-conversion therapy from a segment on The Daily Show, called Diagnosis: Mystery and Jason Jones interviews one of the most infamous names in ex-gay therapy who's Richard Cohen. What bothered me about the segment is that they didn't touch on the religious background behind these programs. There is no such thing as atheist, agnostic or non-religious groups trying to make gay people straight. Evangelical Christians, especially, tend to be heavily involved in this movement.

SC: Tell me about gay-conversion therapy.

They promote this idea that they can make you straight. That's their public message. As you dig deeper, you find out that people are actually suppressing their sexuality. They tell people these programs will make you free from homosexuality through faith and prayer; the programs will help you find the strength to live a chaste, Christian life. That doesn't necessarily mean heterosexuality, or marriage and happy children; so what it means is leaving behind your urges, desires and actions.

[These programs] say homosexuality is the result of emotional or psychological scarring in childhood, where you don't properly identify with your parent of the same sex. They say you're not born that way, it's not genetic, but it is your choice as to whether or not you act on those feelings and attractions.

SC: How do they suggest one can repair emotional damage?

TC: They can't seem to agree. It could be praying, studying scripture and going to church. It can be through therapy with a licensed counselor. It could be like the camp I attended where you act out traumatic events through your childhood or go through holding-touch therapy. These programs have been around since the 1970s. In earlier versions, men would have their testicles strapped to electrodes and they'd be electrocuted while being shown pictures of men. This was the idea of shocking the gay out of you.

SC: When you went undercover in the Christian gay-to-straight movement, what did you expect to find?

TC: I didn't know what to expect. Part of the adventure was: What would it really be like? There are weekly groups [with] prayer, scripture study, singing of hymns, some lesson addressing the emotional wounds leading to homosexuality. There's a lot of bonding with the men in these programs. They spend a lot of time together partly because, I'm guessing, they're still attracted to, and would rather hang out with, other men. But also because they can't find friendship within their churches; there are a lot of people they haven't told or can't tell and so they end up bonding together.

SC: Did you ever come out as straight?

TC: I told two people. One is the leader of one of the weekly meeting groups and it seemed his biggest concern was the fact that I was an atheist and unsaved. He was more concerned for my eternal welfare than for the fact that I had lied to him. The second man I told was one of the guys I'd really bonded with at the camp in Arizona. He was upset I had lied to him. I don't blame him.

SC: Let's talk about the camp in Arizona.

TC: This camp bills itself as an intense 48-hours immersive, experiential retreat. The idea is that there's an emotional burden to fix. It's called Journey into Manhood, run by a group called People Can Change. They bill themselves as non-religious. The organizer of the camp is a Mormon, Rich Wyler.

SC: What happened at the camp?

It starts out with these odd exercises meant to confront how you feel about men. For one exercise, you're standing just inches away from another man and you're staring him in the eyes, and someone in the background is telling you to think about what emotions come up. You do this with every man at the camp. It is very uncomfortable.

SC: How did you feel during the camp?

TC: At first, I was very confused and then I became amused. But as the weekend wore on, I became really angry and sad. I was angry because I feel these men are being lied to; they're being charged $650 for a system that, I think, does not work. I feel [these men] are victims of religious abuse and being told that there is something wrong about their fundamental identity, that they are committing a grievous sin if a man acts on what comes naturally to him. That made me angry.

I saw one man distraught that he was damaging his own sons, that they would end up gay because he was not enough of a man. And I wanted to just hug him, and tell him, "It's OK, it's alright. So what if your kids turn out gay? And you can't turn them gay." I became sad because I saw men reenact traumatic events from their childhood. The paperwork tells you [camp staff members] are not acting as professionals so you have no idea how ethical this is, how safe—psychologically—any of these programs are. I felt sad that their pain was being used to exploit them to make them feel like that was the reason they were gay.

SC: So these were traumatic events about their father or lack of a male figure?

TC: Yes. One man, for example, reenacted his father beating his mother. The men in the group had to play the different parts. Another man had to reenact beating his dad to death with a baseball bat because he remembers a time when his dad was reading a newspaper and didn't want to play with his son; he told his son, "Leave me alone."

SC: What were some shocking or surprising aspects of the meetings or camp?

TC: What was surprising at the weekly meetings was this emphasis on falling in love with Christ. In order to overcome your attraction to men, it was to fall in love—in almost a romantic way—to the most perfect man. Some of the songs they sang sounded like soft-rock 80s love hits, but they were about Jesus instead of your sweetheart. It was shocking the idea that holding and cuddling with another man is supposed to make you straight. We can laugh and say, "Are you serious?" But everyone wants to be touched and held, and for some of these men this is one way for them to get the affection they need.

The [camp] reinforced stereotypes about masculinity and manhood. The counselor would say: "Complete this sentence, 'I feel masculine when,' or 'A man is this.'" And the answers that came up were: protector, provider, husband, father. A man is strong, he is a meat eater. They're enforcing this alpha male American masculinity.

SC: Did you find any value in the weekly meetings or the camp?

TC: On the positive side, I saw many men finally opening up to other people. Some of them for decades had been hiding their attractions and not telling a soul. Also, thirty years ago you would not find a place for men or women to gather at a church because they're trying to overcome same-sex attraction. These programs are opening up a dialogue in Christianity about sexuality and sin and what all of this means.

At one conference I attended, one couple told the story of their own son who was gay and proud and living in the Castro district [in San Francisco]. These two were pastor and wife, and they said, "We love our son unconditionally. We have gone and had dinner with him in the Castro." It set an example of how people should treat their sons and daughters even if they don't agree with how they're living. That was a very powerful message.

SC: You're breaking a confidentiality agreement by speaking to me about the camp. Why take that chance?

TC: I had to. If I don't talk about this, this is going to keep happening. I met one man who is married and has children and he would go online to hook up with other men and he was having anonymous sex with strangers and then going home to his wife. Another man was married and making phone calls to gay-sex chat lines and his daughter discovered the bill. A lot of these men are living lies and it affects themselves, their wives, their children. I can't stay silent about this. I feel like there's a greater good in talking about this and exposing what's going on.

2009/12/7 Korry Korry <korrykorrykoan@...>

Ted Cox posed as a gay man to infiltrate gay-to-straight therapy programs. What he found was equal parts shocking and tragic.

http://www.alternet.org/sex/144390/going_undercover_in_the_crazy,_tragic_world_of_christian_gay-conversion_therapy?page=1

--
Pete Zayonce
m: 0410248621
e: pete.zayonce@...

"I always wondered why somebody doesn't do something about that. Then I realized I was somebody."
– Lily Tomlin

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#5992

From: "Rev. Ninure D. Saunders" <ninure@...>
Date: Sun Dec 6, 2009 10:07 pm
Subject: Re: Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy

ninure

Offline

I have been using the alter-Net site for over a year now....

I think that something else may have "attacked" your PC,

Pax Christi,
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
My Blog
http://blog.myspace.com/rainbow_christian
Be my Friend on MySpace:
http://www.myspace.com/reloc.cfm?c=2&id=a75aba99-1279-4e87-8cfc-b359823723ec
===========================
"All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second, it is violently opposed; Third, it is accepted as self-evident." -- Arthur Schopenhauer

People often say with pride, “I’m not interested in politics.” They might as well say, “I’m not interested in my standard of living, my health, my job, my rights, my freedoms, my future, or any future.”
— Martha Gellhorn, writer/journalist (1908-1998

Live simply. Love generously.
Care deeply. Speak kindly.
Leave the rest to God.

--- On Sun, 12/6/09, Pete Zayonce <pete.zayonce@...> wrote:

From: Pete Zayonce <pete.zayonce@...>
Subject: Re: [Exex-gay] Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, December 6, 2009, 3:49 PM

Be careful of the website that Korry posted - it contains malware & viruses. It tried to install something on my PC. I've copied the text of the article below:

2009/12/7 Korry Korry <korrykorrykoan@ yahoo.com>

Ted Cox posed as a gay man to infiltrate gay-to-straight therapy programs. What he found was equal parts shocking and tragic.

http://www.alternet .org/sex/ 144390/going_ undercover_ in_the_crazy, _tragic_world_ of_christian_ gay-conversion_ therapy?page= 1

--
Pete Zayonce
m: 0410248621
e: pete.zayonce@ gmail.com

"I always wondered why somebody doesn't do something about that. Then I realized I was somebody."
– Lily Tomlin

#5991

From: Pete Zayonce <pete.zayonce@...>
Date: Sun Dec 6, 2009 9:49 pm
Subject: Re: Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy

guylian2002

Offline

Be careful of the website that Korry posted - it contains malware & viruses. �It tried to install something on my PC. �I've copied the text of the article below:

Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy

By Sena Christian, AlterNet
Posted on December 5, 2009, Printed on December 6, 2009
http://www.alternet.org/story/144390/

Sena Christian: What made you want to learn more about the Christian gay-to-straight movement?

�

SC: What exactly interested you?

TC: I first heard about gay-conversion therapy from a segment on�The Daily Show, called�Diagnosis: Mystery�and Jason Jones interviews one of the most infamous names in ex-gay therapy who's�Richard Cohen. What bothered me about the segment is that they didn't touch on the�religious background�behind these programs. There is no such thing as atheist, agnostic or non-religious groups trying to make gay people straight. Evangelical Christians, especially, tend to be heavily involved in this movement.

SC: Tell me about gay-conversion therapy.

SC: How do they suggest one can repair emotional damage?

TC: They can't seem to agree. It could be praying, studying scripture and going to church. It can be through therapy with a licensed counselor. It could be like the camp I attended where you act out traumatic events through your childhood or go through�holding-touch therapy. These programs have been around since the 1970s. In earlier versions, men would have their testicles strapped to electrodes and they'd be electrocuted while being shown pictures of men. This was the idea of shocking the gay out of you.

SC: When you went undercover in the Christian gay-to-straight movement, what did you expect to find?

SC: Did you ever come out as straight?

SC: Let's talk about the camp in Arizona.

TC: This camp bills itself as an intense 48-hours immersive, experiential retreat. The idea is that there's an emotional burden to fix. It's called�Journey into Manhood, run by a group called�People Can Change. They bill themselves as non-religious. The organizer of the camp is a� Mormon,�Rich Wyler.�

SC: What happened at the camp?

SC: How did you feel during the camp?

I saw one man distraught that he was damaging his own sons, that they would end up gay because he was not enough of a man. And I wanted to just hug him, and tell him, "It's OK, it's alright. So what if your kids turn out gay? And you can't turn them gay." I became sad because I saw men reenact traumatic events from their childhood. The paperwork tells you [camp staff members] are not acting as�professionals�so you have no idea how ethical this is, how safe�psychologically�any of these programs are. I felt sad that their pain was being used to exploit them to make them feel like that was the reason they were gay.

SC: So these were traumatic events about their father or lack of a male figure?

SC: What were some shocking or surprising aspects of the meetings or camp?

TC: What was surprising at the weekly meetings was this emphasis on falling in love with Christ. In order to overcome your attraction to men, it was to fall in love�in almost a romantic way�to the most perfect man. Some of the songs they sang sounded like soft-rock 80s love hits, but they were about Jesus instead of your sweetheart. It was shocking the idea that�holding and cuddling�with another man is supposed to make you straight. We can laugh and say, "Are you serious?" But everyone wants to be touched and held, and for some of these men this is one way for them to get the affection they need.�

SC: Did you find any value in the weekly meetings or the camp?

At one conference I attended, one couple told the story of their own son who was gay and proud and living in the�Castro district�[in San Francisco]. These two were pastor and wife, and they said, "We love our son unconditionally. We have gone and had dinner with him in the Castro." It set an example of how people should treat their sons and daughters even if they don't agree with how they're living. That was a very powerful message.�

SC: You're breaking a confidentiality agreement by speaking to me about the camp. Why take that chance?

TC: I had to. If I don't�talk about this, this is going to keep happening. I met one man who is married and has children and he would go online to hook up with other men and he was having anonymous sex with strangers and then going home to his wife. Another man was married and making phone calls to gay-sex chat lines and his daughter discovered the bill. A lot of these men are living lies and it affects themselves, their wives, their children. I can't�stay silent�about this. I feel like there's a greater good in talking about this and exposing what's going on.

�

2009/12/7 Korry Korry <korrykorrykoan@...>

�

Ted Cox posed as a gay man to infiltrate gay-to-straight therapy programs. What he found was equal parts shocking and tragic.

http://www.alternet.org/sex/144390/going_undercover_in_the_crazy,_tragic_world_of_christian_gay-conversion_therapy?page=1

--
Pete Zayonce
m: 0410248621
e: pete.zayonce@...

"I always wondered why somebody doesn't do something about that. Then I realized I was somebody."
� Lily Tomlin

#5990

From: Korry Korry <korrykorrykoan@...>
Date: Sun Dec 6, 2009 9:42 pm
Subject: Going Undercover in the Crazy, Tragic World of Christian Gay-Conversion Therapy

korrykorrykoan

Offline

Ted Cox posed as a gay man to infiltrate gay-to-straight therapy programs. What
he found was equal parts shocking and tragic.

http://www.alternet.org/sex/144390/going_undercover_in_the_crazy,_tragic_world_o\
f_christian_gay-conversion_therapy?page=1

#5989

From: Korry Korry <korrykorrykoan@...>
Date: Sat Dec 5, 2009 4:34 pm
Subject: RE: A Dillema

korrykorrykoan

Offline

From: Anthony Venn-Brown <anthony@...>
Subject: RE: [Exex-gay] A Dillema
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 12:38 PM

Certainly is a dilemma Korry.

On the one hand this gentleman is contributing to unnecessary suffering and even suicide. This is terrible and should be stopped. Our silence contributes to this. Every time we do something to deconstruct the ex-gay myth with hasten the day when these programs will be no more.

Then I think of myself on the other hand how I would have felt to be exposed. Having experienced exposure and scandal myself it’s not something I would wish on anyone. But then again it forced me out of denial and into reality. So today as a totally resolved gay man I am grateful it finally happened.

If I was in your situation I’d approach him first to let see where he is at. The best outcome would be that he would be honest himself.

I’ve just come from the ex-gay survivors conference in Florida……if you wanted to make it public then I’d connect you with some of the guys there. Some I know would do the right thing with the info and be able to advise you. Others might handle it more sensationally and insensitively. If you want me to put you in contact with the right ones…..then email me privately and we can discuss it and I’ll put you in touch.

I wonder what others feel.

Anthony Venn-Brown

An Ambassador for the GLBT Community

Award winning author of 'A Life of Unlearning - A Journey to Find the Truth'

Co-convenor of Freedom 2 b[e]

Honoured to be on the inaugural list of the 25 Most Influential Gay & Lesbian Australians

"The enemy is ignorance"

"My morality is a choice, my sexual orientation however isn't'

'When we choose to live authentically, we chip away at others' prisons of pretend'

Blog: http://alifeofunlea rning.blogspot. com/

Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook .com/gayambassad or

Become a fan of 'A Life of Unlearning' on Facebook

Follow me on Twitter https://twitter. com/gayambassado r

My YouTube Channel is here

From: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:Exex- gay@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Korry Korry
Sent: Tuesday, 24 November 2009 9:18 PM
To: Exex-gay@yahoogroup s.com
Subject: [Exex-gay] A Dillema

Boy does this bother me. Recently, a representative for a VERY high-profile
public figure in America made a lot of noise referencing his "ex-gay" friend who
purportedly found Jesus and "left the lifestyle," et al, et cetera. This was
fairly BIG news in the gay blogosphere for a while.

The weird, very weird, problem for me is that I knew this "ex-gay" friend this
guy was talking about. I had sex with him 18 years ago, when I was my 27 and the
fellow was 42 -- well AFTER he dedicated himself to serving ex-gay ministries.

This has forced me to look back and contemplate how absurd this all was. I got
the guy's name and phone number via my local chapter of Exodus, and he actually
worked for a church in Northern California at the time, in addition to being a
spokesman for "ex-gay" philosophy. He was quite passionate about it, writing
angry editorials denouncing the gay rights movement as "the sodomy movement."
But he was also quite clever in stating, even publicly, that he was "not fully
healed." Apparently that seems to have been his excuse to have his cake and eat
it too. I myself was going back-and-forth on whether to pursue the ex-gay trip,
and even before I went to visit him, we talked about the possibility of engaging
in some form of physical interaction that may or may not become sexual.

The night that I got there we shared a bed, and did a little of fooling around
before we both went to sleep. I enjoyed it, he enjoyed it, but we both felt very
conflicted, so that was the relationship didn't go further.

The guy is not anything like a manipulative sociopath; he did many good works
helping the needy in his life, and did so with sincere dedication. Rather, he
seemed to epitomize the anguished split mentality that many of us who have ever
contemplated ex-gayism go through. When I contacted him again a year and a half
later, we considered getting together for a possible relationship, but then he
told me that an angel in a dream said not to. The follow-up calls I had with him
led me to believe that his life seemed to be falling apart, and today I fear may
not even be around anymore.

Hence, even though I could make headlines telling the world my story, and my
relationship with this man, I am reluctant to do so because few journalists or
bloggers would treat this issue with the sensitivity it deserves. Conservatives,
meanwhile, would claim I was lying. And furthermore, I don't want me gaining
public recognition for a sex scandal, rather than for my talents and
accomplishments. But I feel creeped out, still, that this representative of this
extremely high-profile public figure, addressing an large conservative audience
in the media, would be essentially promoting a blatant lie about somebody I
happen to know.

Frustrating.

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Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (24)

#5988

From: "Anthony Venn-Brown" <anthony@...>
Date: Thu Dec 3, 2009 1:31 am
Subject: RE: RE: Hello and just looking around

avennbrown

Offline

Hey Jessica……I have the ideal place for you.

Its Freedom 2 b[e]

The best thing to do is to register……then when it is okayed (this is to stop spammers)…..then post your story here….there are similar ones to yours.

Telling Our Stories

Some guidelines are here 'Telling Our Stories' Forum -Please read this before posting

Lots of activity there as you will see.

Speak to you in the forum.

Anthony Venn-Brown

An Ambassador for the GLBT Community

Award winning author of 'A Life of Unlearning - A Journey to Find the Truth'

Co-convenor of Freedom 2 b[e]

Honoured to be on the inaugural list of the 25 Most Influential Gay & Lesbian Australians

"The enemy is ignorance"

"My morality is a choice, my sexual orientation however isn't'

'When we choose to live authentically, we chip away at others' prisons of pretend'

Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook.com/gayambassador