Tim -

I don't think I can adequately express how glad I am that you're here and
interested in hearing from us.  I'd be more than happy to provide feedback,
but would suggest that any requested info be sent to you directly and kept
off the list.  Our opinions about the software we use, and the need (or lack
of need) for an affiliate program can lean a little toward dogmatism ...
they can make for interesting reading, but really detract from the spirit of
the group.

What kind of feedback are you looking for, specifically?  While I can't
speak for the other members of the list, I don't know when a feature that I
desire (but can't get) or an issue that bugs me is the result of an
affiliate's programming priorities or a shortcoming in the API.

- Stephen


On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 7:40 PM, timothygcross <timothygcross@...>wrote:

> I continue to be impressed with the knowledge and experience this group
> provides.
>
> My current assignment is with FamilySearch Affiliates -- companies
> developing products and services that work with FamilySearch.  Is it
> appropriate for me to request feedback occasionally from this group
> regarding FamilySearch Affiliates?
>
> Tim
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This group is very good at feedback.  I think it would be fine.



To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
From: timothygcross@...
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 03:40:42 +0000
Subject: [FHCNET] Feedback on FamilySearch Affiliates





I continue to be impressed with the knowledge and experience this group
provides.

My current assignment is with FamilySearch Affiliates -- companies developing
products and services that work with FamilySearch. Is it appropriate for me to
request feedback occasionally from this group regarding FamilySearch Affiliates?

Tim





_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is an example of a post that I would like feedback on regarding the
affiliates.

We are exploring a concept around openly sharing information, images, sites,
etc., in the FamilySearch Community.  The idea is that when something is posted
or published on FamilySearch or on an affiliate site, this information is
immediately accessible through any of the affiliate software products or
services.  One example of this is www.photoloom.com.

www.photoloom.com is a site where we are able to upload pictures of our
ancestors.  Since www.photoloom.com is an affiliate, we are able to log into nFS
from this site and access the FamilySearch Tree.  This tree information is then
used to identify persons in the photos.  Once our ancestors are identified in
the pictures, this information is made available to the FamilySearch Community
via the FS Person ID.  Imagine pictures of your ancestors on every pedigree draw
by FamilySearch or an Affiliate.  An example of this is www.TreeSeek.com.

www.TreeSeek.com is an affiliate that generates charts from nFS.  For the
4-generation charts with pictures, www.TreeSeek.com uses nFS to create the tree
and then accesses the pictures on www.photoloom.com identified for each
ancestor.  The result is a nice 4-generation chart using nFS tree information
coupled with photos from www.photoloom.com.

My questions for the group include:
1.  Is the FamilySearch Community concept appealing?
2.  Are there sites you would like to see become part of the FamilySearch
Community?
3.  Do you think this particular example of photo tagging is something youth
would engage in?  Youth currently do similar tagging of photos on facebook, just
not for their ancestors.

Thank you for your consideration.

Tim

p.s.  Should we set up a different group to discuss these types of posts?  Or,
is it "ok" on FHCNet?

I have been waiting for this type of photo tagging to be implemented with
respect to nFS. Linking these other sites into nFS would be a great tool. I
have been working on a project with some at BYU to tag the old Mormon
journal collection and linking them with nFS. That tool allows us to link a
name in the journal to a specific PID in nFS. It looks at all the
individuals who are participating in the project, records the PIDs for their
ancestors, and when a journal entry is tagged with their ancestor's name and
PID they get a notice letting them know that there is a record available and
giving them a link to read the entry. This tool has been in beta for a while
but it has great promise.

I look forward to the day when FamilySearch Records are linked to PIDs and
timelines so we can see when a record matching the individual was created.
For example, the 1920 census would appear on the timeline at 1920, a
marriage certificate would appear on their marriage date, the death
certificate on their death date, and so on, much like the LifeBrowser
prototype that was tested a few years ago.

Over the last few years we have had branched conversation groups created
when new projects have been introduced. It might be good to start up a new
discussion group for those of us who want to be involved in more of the tech
discussion concerning this project. This way the discussions could be more
focused. Just my opinion.

Miles Meyer
Jacksonville, FL





On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 9:24 AM, timothygcross <timothygcross@...>wrote:

>
>
> This is an example of a post that I would like feedback on regarding the
> affiliates.
>
> We are exploring a concept around openly sharing information, images,
> sites, etc., in the FamilySearch Community. The idea is that when something
> is posted or published on FamilySearch or on an affiliate site, this
> information is immediately accessible through any of the affiliate software
> products or services. One example of this is www.photoloom.com.
>
> www.photoloom.com is a site where we are able to upload pictures of our
> ancestors. Since www.photoloom.com is an affiliate, we are able to log
> into nFS from this site and access the FamilySearch Tree. This tree
> information is then used to identify persons in the photos. Once our
> ancestors are identified in the pictures, this information is made available
> to the FamilySearch Community via the FS Person ID. Imagine pictures of your
> ancestors on every pedigree draw by FamilySearch or an Affiliate. An example
> of this is www.TreeSeek.com <http://www.treeseek.com/>.
>
> www.TreeSeek.com <http://www.treeseek.com/> is an affiliate that generates
> charts from nFS. For the 4-generation charts with pictures,
> www.TreeSeek.com <http://www.treeseek.com/> uses nFS to create the tree
> and then accesses the pictures on www.photoloom.com identified for each
> ancestor. The result is a nice 4-generation chart using nFS tree information
> coupled with photos from www.photoloom.com.
>
> My questions for the group include:
> 1. Is the FamilySearch Community concept appealing?
> 2. Are there sites you would like to see become part of the FamilySearch
> Community?
> 3. Do you think this particular example of photo tagging is something youth
> would engage in? Youth currently do similar tagging of photos on facebook,
> just not for their ancestors.
>
> Thank you for your consideration.
>
> Tim
>
> p.s. Should we set up a different group to discuss these types of posts?
> Or, is it "ok" on FHCNet?
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Tim,

This kind of service will be excellent for the half of the church members who
are first or second generation members who truly don't link into anybody that is
already in the nFS database who has multiple problems in their ancestral
families.  For the other half of us, there is still a lot of cleaning up to be
done - combining, separating, editing, etc. - before it's time to add photos
that may otherwise be linked to the wrong person.  It will be super when the
time is right, not only for photos, but also for digital copies of original
records.

In the meantime, perhaps someone will develop a program that will allow us to
create web pages featuring our personal genealogy data with the photos, etc.,
and include the PID of our people which will automatically link to that person
in nFS. One would need to be able to udate the posted data whenever the need or
desire arose - sort of like RootsWeb WorldConnect on steroids... What think ye,
developers?  Could personal genealogy websites be part of the FamilySearch
Community?

Venita

On Mar 1, 2010, at 7:24 AM, timothygcross wrote:

> This is an example of a post that I would like feedback on regarding the
affiliates.
>
> We are exploring a concept around openly sharing information, images, sites,
etc., in the FamilySearch Community. The idea is that when something is posted
or published on FamilySearch or on an affiliate site, this information is
immediately accessible through any of the affiliate software products or
services. One example of this is www.photoloom.com.
>
> www.photoloom.com is a site where we are able to upload pictures of our
ancestors. Since www.photoloom.com is an affiliate, we are able to log into nFS
from this site and access the FamilySearch Tree. This tree information is then
used to identify persons in the photos. Once our ancestors are identified in the
pictures, this information is made available to the FamilySearch Community via
the FS Person ID. Imagine pictures of your ancestors on every pedigree draw by
FamilySearch or an Affiliate. An example of this is www.TreeSeek.com.
>
> www.TreeSeek.com is an affiliate that generates charts from nFS. For the
4-generation charts with pictures, www.TreeSeek.com uses nFS to create the tree
and then accesses the pictures on www.photoloom.com identified for each
ancestor. The result is a nice 4-generation chart using nFS tree information
coupled with photos from www.photoloom.com.
>
> My questions for the group include:
> 1. Is the FamilySearch Community concept appealing?
> 2. Are there sites you would like to see become part of the FamilySearch
Community?
> 3. Do you think this particular example of photo tagging is something youth
would engage in? Youth currently do similar tagging of photos on facebook, just
not for their ancestors.
>
> Thank you for your consideration.
>
> Tim
>
> p.s. Should we set up a different group to discuss these types of posts? Or,
is it "ok" on FHCNet?
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I like the program, but I see you can only add 5-7 photos unless you want to
purchase more space.
Thanks
Paul




________________________________



This is an example of a post that I would like feedback on regarding the
affiliates.

We are exploring a concept around openly sharing information, images, sites,
etc., in the FamilySearch Community.  The idea is that when something is posted
or published on FamilySearch or on an affiliate site, this information is
immediately accessible through any of the affiliate software products or
services.  One example of this is www.photoloom. com.

www.photoloom. com is a site where we are able to upload pictures of our
ancestors.  Since www.photoloom. com is an affiliate, we are able to log into
nFS from this site and access the FamilySearch Tree.  This tree information is
then used to identify persons in the photos.  Once our ancestors are identified
in the pictures, this information is made available to the FamilySearch
Community via the FS Person ID.  Imagine pictures of your ancestors on every
pedigree draw by FamilySearch or an Affiliate.  An example of this is
www.TreeSeek. com.

www.TreeSeek. com is an affiliate that generates charts from nFS.  For the
4-generation charts with pictures, www.TreeSeek. com uses nFS to create the tree
and then accesses the pictures on www.photoloom. com identified for each
ancestor.  The result is a nice 4-generation chart using nFS tree information
coupled with photos from www.photoloom. com.

My questions for the group include:
1.  Is the FamilySearch Community concept appealing?
2.  Are there sites you would like to see become part of the FamilySearch
Community?
3.  Do you think this particular example of photo tagging is something youth
would engage in?  Youth currently do similar tagging of photos on facebook, just
not for their ancestors.

Thank you for your consideration.

Tim

p.s.  Should we set up a different group to discuss these types of posts?  Or,
is it "ok" on FHCNet?







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Legacy programmers,
   May I make a suggestion for a future release. With the digital
capabilities of our day it seems reasonable now to ask for what I had hoped
would be available years ago. That is the capability of saving JPEG images
in our Legacy notes. I started years ago to save my sources in the notes
file. When I found information that added data to my family file - I would
save the location and type of data it was in my notes. It would take me a
light year to change now. Many times the source was a census image, a
picture, a sketch or a doc. image and I could only store it in a file
outside my Legacy program. If the image could be reduced to 1"by 1" and
stored in the note file it would be quicker and easier for researchers such
as I. When the file was clicked on in the note file it would come up on a
separate page as an image that could be pulled to whatever size the user
wanted to pull it for printing, enhancing, or sending as an email image to
anyone else. If you could pull that off you would have executed a real coup.
I am not alone in this desire as many long term researchers have expressed
the same interest to me. I am the director of the Ogden Regional Family
History Center and have been for 9 years. We teach Legacy at the center and
would we ever enjoy teaching that aspect of it, if it were available.

On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 4:02 PM, <swensengen@...> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> Just downloaded the new leagcy that works with new.familysearch.org
>
> It's still is not all up and working, but it is very similar to
> FamilyInsight.
>
> It let's us select your direct line to check instead of all the names in
> your files.
>
> Similar tracking system to Roots Magic4 for showing names sync to NFS.
>
> They have video's online to watch.
>
> Carol in Colorado
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--
Emil O. Hanson


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tim, I think this email list is an excellent
place for you to tell us about things like this
www.photoloom.com website.  I wasn't aware of it
until your note.  The only thing I would
recommend is that it be mentioned at the start
that it is commercial and costs $39/year for 5
gigs of storage, so that we would know at the
start whether we want to investigate it further
and/or talk about it in our classes.

The idea of a FamilySearch Community of sites
that could link to nFS is a good idea, in my
opinion.  What about FamilySearch itself having a
free website where images and links could be
stored so they could be linked to the PID's on
nFS?  Then they wouldn't have to be in nFS itself
and would be accessible to everyone, whether they
have a nFS log in or not.  I like the method
photoloom uses to tag people and think that many
youth (and older folks) would be willing to tag their uploaded images.

Typical questions I have:       I assume TreeSeek
is commercial, so how much do they charge to put
together a 4-generation chart from nFS data with
photos from photoloom?  And does TreeSeek work if
you haven't paid for a photoloom account yourself?

Don


At 08:24 AM 3/1/2010, timothygcross wrote:
>
>
>This is an example of a post that I would like
>feedback on regarding the affiliates.
>
>We are exploring a concept around openly sharing
>information, images, sites, etc., in the
>FamilySearch Community. The idea is that when
>something is posted or published on FamilySearch
>or on an affiliate site, this information is
>immediately accessible through any of the
>affiliate software products or services. One
>example of this is www.photoloom.com.
>
>www.photoloom.com is a site where we are able to
>upload pictures of our ancestors. Since
>www.photoloom.com is an affiliate, we are able
>to log into nFS from this site and access the
>FamilySearch Tree. This tree information is then
>used to identify persons in the photos. Once our
>ancestors are identified in the pictures, this
>information is made available to the
>FamilySearch Community via the FS Person ID.
>Imagine pictures of your ancestors on every
>pedigree draw by FamilySearch or an Affiliate.
>An example of this is www.TreeSeek.com.
>
>www.TreeSeek.com is an affiliate that generates
>charts from nFS. For the 4-generation charts
>with pictures, www.TreeSeek.com uses nFS to
>create the tree and then accesses the pictures
>on www.photoloom.com identified for each
>ancestor. The result is a nice 4-generation
>chart using nFS tree information coupled with photos from www.photoloom.com.
>
>My questions for the group include:
>1. Is the FamilySearch Community concept appealing?
>2. Are there sites you would like to see become
>part of the FamilySearch Community?
>3. Do you think this particular example of photo
>tagging is something youth would engage in?
>Youth currently do similar tagging of photos on
>facebook, just not for their ancestors.
>
>Thank you for your consideration.
>
>Tim
>
>p.s. Should we set up a different group to
>discuss these types of posts? Or, is it "ok" on FHCNet?
>
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2716
>- Release Date: 03/01/10 01:34:00

Donald R. Snow, Math Faculty, Nauvoo University http://www.nauvoouniversity.com
Retired Professor of Mathematics, Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah
snowd@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tim,

Yes, this topic is very acceptable.

Ileen

--- In FHCNET@yahoogroups.com, "timothygcross" <timothygcross@...> wrote:
>
> I continue to be impressed with the knowledge and experience this group
provides.
>
> My current assignment is with FamilySearch Affiliates -- companies developing
products and services that work with FamilySearch.  Is it appropriate for me to
request feedback occasionally from this group regarding FamilySearch Affiliates?
>
> Tim
>

It seems that what you desire to do
is somewhat similar to the currently
refined Web "Show options" resource
found on web searches with Google.

With the "Show options" format, nearby,
one can get nearly information concerning
http://tinyurl.com/y9ybupx
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-
day Saints, or a new custom location.
such as London, England.
http://tinyurl.com/yzwfpd5
The search gives maps and LDS
businesses, etc.

Additionally, these searches
can be refined by:Images
Videos
News
Blogs
Updates
Books
Discussions
Also, time periods and other variations.

Google is providing the LDS Church with
a "face" in the world, with present tools
connecting to FHCs and LDS organizations.
Internalization of LDS resources, without
recognition of need by individuals on the
outside of the system, limits the message
of the Church to the worldwide community.

In light of this situation, I made a complete
review of all the best of the web resources
offered within the LDS link sites, expanded
on their references, to include complementary
authorities for an Internet Education Directory.

I have just completed UPDATING
http://tinyurl.com/yhtcuso
Ancestor Roots Information: OneSource
Genealogy and Family History Searchable Databases.
http://www.academic-genealogy.com/ancestorrootsinformationdatabases.htm

This involved reviewing over 195 pages
of link checks, to assure current
clean
access to all of the International data records.

Every
known global resource has been
presented in brief outline, including
sub
sets to every key genealogy and family
history resource.  I have
established
"current information" link sets throughout
the site, so
that automatically, anyone
using the site will be updated from within
the directory itself, and thus all can be
assured of the most
currently available
free or fee resources, irrespective of which
individual or group is placing them on the
Internet, whatever the
source.

I hope many on this list will find significant
benefit
from the freely researched resources
presented here.

V. Chris
& Tom Tinney, Sr.




________________________________
From: Paul Walworth <pdgjw1936@...>
To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, March 1, 2010 9:02:37 AM
Subject: Re: [FHCNET] FamilySearch Affiliate Information Sharing


I like the program, but I see you can only add 5-7 photos unless you want to
purchase more space.
Thanks
Paul

____________ _________ _________ __

This is an example of a post that I would like feedback on regarding the
affiliates.

We are exploring a concept around openly sharing information, images, sites,
etc., in the FamilySearch Community.  The idea is that when something is posted
or published on FamilySearch or on an affiliate site, this information is
immediately accessible through any of the affiliate software products or
services.  One example of this is www.photoloom. com.

www.photoloom. com is a site where we are able to upload pictures of our
ancestors.  Since www.photoloom. com is an affiliate, we are able to log into
nFS from this site and access the FamilySearch Tree.  This tree information is
then used to identify persons in the photos.  Once our ancestors are identified
in the pictures, this information is made available to the FamilySearch
Community via the FS Person ID.  Imagine pictures of your ancestors on every
pedigree draw by FamilySearch or an Affiliate.  An example of this is
www.TreeSeek. com.

www.TreeSeek. com is an affiliate that generates charts from nFS.  For the
4-generation charts with pictures, www.TreeSeek. com uses nFS to create the tree
and then accesses the pictures on www.photoloom. com identified for each
ancestor.  The result is a nice 4-generation chart using nFS tree information
coupled with photos from www.photoloom. com.

My questions for the group include:
1.  Is the FamilySearch Community concept appealing?
2.  Are there sites you would like to see become part of the FamilySearch
Community?
3.  Do you think this particular example of photo tagging is something youth
would engage in?  Youth currently do similar tagging of photos on facebook, just
not for their ancestors.

Thank you for your consideration.

Tim

p.s.  Should we set up a different group to discuss these types of posts?  Or,
is it "ok" on FHCNet?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

We are teaching several upcoming classes at our FHC, and I'd like to update
our handout on internet sites - both US and worldwide.

I'd love to hear about your favorites - anything new, preferably.  I'm a 45
year veteran of genealogy, and know about the tried and true ones like
Cyndislist and usgenweb, multimap, Free BMD, FHC portal and Record Search
Pilot, etc. Some worldwide sites would be nice. I am especially ignorant on
Canadian research.

Thanks -- Judy Lockhart, Mission Viejo, CA FHC


  >

>

>>

>>

>>


>>

>>

>>
>>
>
>
>

>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> List owner:  ileenjohnson@...
> Unsubscribe: FHCNET-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe:   Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FHCNET
>             or send blank email to FHCNET-subscribe@...!
> Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature database 4905 (20100301) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4906 (20100301) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

Here are a few:

www.automatedgenealogy.com <http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/>  - free
-  Canada 1901, 1911 censuses - very useful.

http://www.genealogie.umontreal.ca/en/ - P.R.D.H. (Quebec vital records,
early through 1800, some later deaths) - subscription required -
excellent site.

  <http://www.ddd.dda.dk/dddform2_uk.asp>
http://www.ddd.dda.dk/dddform2_uk.asp - Danish census index site - free.

http://www.arkivalieronline.dk/English/default.aspx - Danish parish
records and census site - registration (but not $) required; a little
tricky so far

http://www.genlias.nl/en/page0.jsp - Netherlands archive site - free -
English available; excellent.

http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~afgs/index1.html - French
Canadian "Dit" Surnames - good way to track surname changes in Quebec
(also includes some anglicizations)

www.newenglandancestors.org <http://www.newenglandancestors.org/>  -
membership required in New England Historic Genealogical Society;
databases include Massachusetts Vital Records (with index) from
1841-1910; many other records also available, but the Massachusetts
Vitals are great if you need those.

Genline Family Finder also is a good subscription site for Swedish
research, but they might already have that available through the Family
History Library.

Linda Miller
Vermont

-----Original Message-----
From: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FHCNET@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Paxton Lockhart
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 3:40 PM
To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FHCNET] your favorite internet sites


We are teaching several upcoming classes at our FHC, and I'd like to
update
our handout on internet sites - both US and worldwide.

I'd love to hear about your favorites - anything new, preferably. I'm a
45
year veteran of genealogy, and know about the tried and true ones like
Cyndislist and usgenweb, multimap, Free BMD, FHC portal and Record
Search
Pilot, etc. Some worldwide sites would be nice. I am especially ignorant
on
Canadian research.

Thanks -- Judy Lockhart, Mission Viejo, CA FHC

>

>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>
>>
>
>
>

>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> List owner: ileenjohnson@ <mailto:ileenjohnson%40gmail.com> gmail.com
> Unsubscribe: FHCNET-unsubscribe@
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> Subscribe: Go to http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FHCNET>
yahoo.com/group/FHCNET
> or send blank email to FHCNET-subscribe@
<mailto:FHCNET-subscribe%40yahoogroups.comYahoo> yahoogroups.comYahoo!
> Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature database 4905 (20100301) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset. <http://www.eset.com> com
>
>
>

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature database 4906 (20100301) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset. <http://www.eset.com> com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The interesting thing about affiliate sites is the more traffic they see, the
more options they have to make the site free while making money via ads or
something else.
Photoloom currently charges an annual fee.  
TreeSeek is currently free.  The pdf files that TreeSeek creates can be saved,
shared (email, etc.), or printed out.  
I recently emailed a 9-generation chart to my ward consultant who is much better
at research than I am.  Within a week she showed up at my door with hardcopy
printouts of sources that extended one of my end-of-lines.  FH Consultants are
awesome!
Tim

--- On Mon, 3/1/10, Snow, Donald R. <snowd@...> wrote:

From: Snow, Donald R. <snowd@...>
Subject: Re: [FHCNET] FamilySearch Affiliate Information Sharing
To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 1:00 PM
















 









       Tim, I think this email list is an excellent

place for you to tell us about things like this

www.photoloom. com website.  I wasn't aware of it

until your note.  The only thing I would

recommend is that it be mentioned at the start

that it is commercial and costs $39/year for 5

gigs of storage, so that we would know at the

start whether we want to investigate it further

and/or talk about it in our classes.



The idea of a FamilySearch Community of sites

that could link to nFS is a good idea, in my

opinion.  What about FamilySearch itself having a

free website where images and links could be

stored so they could be linked to the PID's on

nFS?  Then they wouldn't have to be in nFS itself

and would be accessible to everyone, whether they

have a nFS log in or not.  I like the method

photoloom uses to tag people and think that many

youth (and older folks) would be willing to tag their uploaded images.



Typical questions I have:       I assume TreeSeek

is commercial, so how much do they charge to put

together a 4-generation chart from nFS data with

photos from photoloom?  And does TreeSeek work if

you haven't paid for a photoloom account yourself?



Don



At 08:24 AM 3/1/2010, timothygcross wrote:

>

>

>This is an example of a post that I would like

>feedback on regarding the affiliates.

>

>We are exploring a concept around openly sharing

>information, images, sites, etc., in the

>FamilySearch Community. The idea is that when

>something is posted or published on FamilySearch

>or on an affiliate site, this information is

>immediately accessible through any of the

>affiliate software products or services. One

>example of this is www.photoloom. com.

>

>www.photoloom. com is a site where we are able to

>upload pictures of our ancestors. Since

>www.photoloom. com is an affiliate, we are able

>to log into nFS from this site and access the

>FamilySearch Tree. This tree information is then

>used to identify persons in the photos. Once our

>ancestors are identified in the pictures, this

>information is made available to the

>FamilySearch Community via the FS Person ID.

>Imagine pictures of your ancestors on every

>pedigree draw by FamilySearch or an Affiliate.

>An example of this is www.TreeSeek. com.

>

>www.TreeSeek. com is an affiliate that generates

>charts from nFS. For the 4-generation charts

>with pictures, www.TreeSeek. com uses nFS to

>create the tree and then accesses the pictures

>on www.photoloom. com identified for each

>ancestor. The result is a nice 4-generation

>chart using nFS tree information coupled with photos from www.photoloom. com.

>

>My questions for the group include:

>1. Is the FamilySearch Community concept appealing?

>2. Are there sites you would like to see become

>part of the FamilySearch Community?

>3. Do you think this particular example of photo

>tagging is something youth would engage in?

>Youth currently do similar tagging of photos on

>facebook, just not for their ancestors.

>

>Thank you for your consideration.

>

>Tim

>

>p.s. Should we set up a different group to

>discuss these types of posts? Or, is it "ok" on FHCNet?

>

>

>

>No virus found in this incoming message.

>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

>Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2716

>- Release Date: 03/01/10 01:34:00



Donald R. Snow, Math Faculty, Nauvoo University http://www.nauvooun iversity.
com

Retired Professor of Mathematics, Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah

snowd@.... edu



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 10:09 AM, ileenjohnson <ileenjohnson@...> wrote:
> Tim,
>
> Yes, this topic is very acceptable.
>
> Ileen
>

Tim, sorry if I'm pointing out the obvious, but Ileen is the list
owner, so you're good to go.

I was just informed that the site increased from 5 free photos to 200 free
photos.  It is interesting how things change.
Tim
    

--- On Mon, 3/1/10, Paul Walworth <pdgjw1936@...> wrote:

From: Paul Walworth <pdgjw1936@...>
Subject: Re: [FHCNET] FamilySearch Affiliate Information Sharing
To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 10:02 AM
















 









       I like the program, but I see you can only add 5-7 photos unless you want
to purchase more space.

Thanks

Paul



____________ _________ _________ __



This is an example of a post that I would like feedback on regarding the
affiliates.



We are exploring a concept around openly sharing information, images, sites,
etc., in the FamilySearch Community.  The idea is that when something is posted
or published on FamilySearch or on an affiliate site, this information is
immediately accessible through any of the affiliate software products or
services.  One example of this is www.photoloom. com.



www.photoloom. com is a site where we are able to upload pictures of our
ancestors.  Since www.photoloom. com is an affiliate, we are able to log into
nFS from this site and access the FamilySearch Tree.  This tree information is
then used to identify persons in the photos.  Once our ancestors are identified
in the pictures, this information is made available to the FamilySearch
Community via the FS Person ID.  Imagine pictures of your ancestors on every
pedigree draw by FamilySearch or an Affiliate.  An example of this is
www.TreeSeek. com.



www.TreeSeek. com is an affiliate that generates charts from nFS.  For the
4-generation charts with pictures, www.TreeSeek. com uses nFS to create the tree
and then accesses the pictures on www.photoloom. com identified for each
ancestor.  The result is a nice 4-generation chart using nFS tree information
coupled with photos from www.photoloom. com.



My questions for the group include:

1.  Is the FamilySearch Community concept appealing?

2.  Are there sites you would like to see become part of the FamilySearch
Community?

3.  Do you think this particular example of photo tagging is something youth
would engage in?  Youth currently do similar tagging of photos on facebook, just
not for their ancestors.



Thank you for your consideration.



Tim



p.s.  Should we set up a different group to discuss these types of posts?  Or,
is it "ok" on FHCNet?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the FHCNET
group.

   File        : /Affiliate Software Programs.pdf
   Uploaded by : ileenjohnson <ileenjohnson@...>
   Description : Affiliate Software Programs

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FHCNET/files/Affiliate%20Software%20Programs.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.htmlfiles

Regards,

ileenjohnson <ileenjohnson@...>

Thanks as that would make it a lot more usable.
Paul


________________________________



I was just informed that the site increased from 5 free photos to 200 free
photos.  It is interesting how things change.
Tim


--- On Mon, 3/1/10, Paul Walworth <pdgjw1936@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Paul Walworth <pdgjw1936@yahoo. com>
Subject: Re: [FHCNET] FamilySearch Affiliate Information Sharing
To: FHCNET@yahoogroups. com
Date: Monday, March 1, 2010, 10:02 AM



I like the program, but I see you can only add 5-7 photos unless you want to
purchase more space.

Thanks

Paul

____________ _________ _________ __

This is an example of a post that I would like feedback on regarding the
affiliates.

We are exploring a concept around openly sharing information, images, sites,
etc., in the FamilySearch Community.  The idea is that when something is posted
or published on FamilySearch or on an affiliate site, this information is
immediately accessible through any of the affiliate software products or
services.  One example of this is www.photoloom. com.

www.photoloom. com is a site where we are able to upload pictures of our
ancestors.  Since www.photoloom. com is an affiliate, we are able to log into
nFS from this site and access the FamilySearch Tree.  This tree information is
then used to identify persons in the photos.  Once our ancestors are identified
in the pictures, this information is made available to the FamilySearch
Community via the FS Person ID.  Imagine pictures of your ancestors on every
pedigree draw by FamilySearch or an Affiliate.  An example of this is
www.TreeSeek. com.

www.TreeSeek. com is an affiliate that generates charts from nFS.  For the
4-generation charts with pictures, www.TreeSeek. com uses nFS to create the tree
and then accesses the pictures on www.photoloom. com identified for each
ancestor.  The result is a nice 4-generation chart using nFS tree information
coupled with photos from www.photoloom. com.

My questions for the group include:

1.  Is the FamilySearch Community concept appealing?

2.  Are there sites you would like to see become part of the FamilySearch
Community?

3.  Do you think this particular example of photo tagging is something youth
would engage in?  Youth currently do similar tagging of photos on facebook, just
not for their ancestors.

Thank you for your consideration.

Tim

p.s.  Should we set up a different group to discuss these types of posts?  Or,
is it "ok" on FHCNet?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'd highly suggest that you look at the Family History  Library
favorites. These are the links that are listed at the FHL in Salt Lake.

There are two ways to access them. One by downloading the file and
installing within your browser. The other is a website that has the
links attached to a map and you can work your way through the various
categories and links. Here are the links to both.

FHL favorites to download and install:
https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Family_History_Library_Internet_Favorites


FHL favorites by map:  http://www.fhlfavorites.info/

SueM

Paxton Lockhart wrote:
>
>
> We are teaching several upcoming classes at our FHC, and I'd like to
> update
> our handout on internet sites - both US and worldwide.
>
> I'd love to hear about your favorites - anything new, preferably. I'm
> a 45
> year veteran of genealogy, and know about the tried and true ones like
> Cyndislist and usgenweb, multimap, Free BMD, FHC portal and Record Search
> Pilot, etc. Some worldwide sites would be nice. I am especially
> ignorant on
> Canadian research.
>
> Thanks -- Judy Lockhart, Mission Viejo, CA FHC
>
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tim it may not be possible but, for those of us that have Ancestry.com
subscriptions it certainly would be great if you could get them to allow
access to their user submitted pictures and other images. We currently
link them to our family file that we have uploaded. I'm sure it works
quite similar to what you have in mind. I hate having to keep track in
so many different locations and programs and websites.

I think the whole process would be wonderful, it would probably resolve
a lot of duplication and effort. Then we could focus more on what we are
charged to do....take those "new" ancestors to the temple!

BTW, RootsMagic already links photos and other images to your family
files so adding an additional link to allow links to online images would
probably be extremely easy for Bruce Buzbee to do. Have him test it out
for you.

SueM

timothygcross wrote:
>
>
> This is an example of a post that I would like feedback on regarding
> the affiliates.
>
> We are exploring a concept around openly sharing information, images,
> sites, etc., in the FamilySearch Community. The idea is that when
> something is posted or published on FamilySearch or on an affiliate
> site, this information is immediately accessible through any of the
> affiliate software products or services. One example of this is
> www.photoloom.com.
>
> www.photoloom.com is a site where we are able to upload pictures of
> our ancestors. Since www.photoloom.com is an affiliate, we are able to
> log into nFS from this site and access the FamilySearch Tree. This
> tree information is then used to identify persons in the photos. Once
> our ancestors are identified in the pictures, this information is made
> available to the FamilySearch Community via the FS Person ID. Imagine
> pictures of your ancestors on every pedigree draw by FamilySearch or
> an Affiliate. An example of this is www.TreeSeek.com.
>
> www.TreeSeek.com is an affiliate that generates charts from nFS. For
> the 4-generation charts with pictures, www.TreeSeek.com uses nFS to
> create the tree and then accesses the pictures on www.photoloom.com
> identified for each ancestor. The result is a nice 4-generation chart
> using nFS tree information coupled with photos from www.photoloom.com.
>
> My questions for the group include:
> 1. Is the FamilySearch Community concept appealing?
> 2. Are there sites you would like to see become part of the
> FamilySearch Community?
> 3. Do you think this particular example of photo tagging is something
> youth would engage in? Youth currently do similar tagging of photos on
> facebook, just not for their ancestors.
>
> Thank you for your consideration.
>
> Tim
>
> p.s. Should we set up a different group to discuss these types of
> posts? Or, is it "ok" on FHCNet?
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have posted a .pdf file containing my "analysis" of some of the new
FamilySearch affiliate programs.  I started this project with trying to make
a spread sheet listing the software and the features each provided.  The
more I worked on this the more confused I became.  It is nigh impossible to
compare the programs with one another since they all have similar, yet
different, features.

So this is my compromise.  I tried to keep it positive, focusing on the
strong points of the programs rather than what it lacked or what we
disliked.

To download the file,

Ileen Johnson
FHCNET List Owner


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A third way to get the FHL favorites, for FHC computers, is through the
LANDesk Software Deployment Portal.

A fourth way is to export them from any computer where they already reside
(although others sources are more likely to be current).

Gary Templeman

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sue Maxwell" <smaxwl@...>
To: <FHCNET@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: [FHCNET] your favorite internet sites


> I'd highly suggest that you look at the Family History  Library
> favorites. These are the links that are listed at the FHL in Salt Lake.
>
> There are two ways to access them. One by downloading the file and
> installing within your browser. The other is a website that has the
> links attached to a map and you can work your way through the various
> categories and links. Here are the links to both.
>
> FHL favorites to download and install:
> https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Family_History_Library_Internet_Favorites
>
>
> FHL favorites by map:  http://www.fhlfavorites.info/
>
> SueM
>
> Paxton Lockhart wrote:
>>
>>
>> We are teaching several upcoming classes at our FHC, and I'd like to
>> update
>> our handout on internet sites - both US and worldwide.
>>
>> I'd love to hear about your favorites - anything new, preferably. I'm
>> a 45
>> year veteran of genealogy, and know about the tried and true ones like
>> Cyndislist and usgenweb, multimap, Free BMD, FHC portal and Record Search
>> Pilot, etc. Some worldwide sites would be nice. I am especially
>> ignorant on
>> Canadian research.
>>
>> Thanks -- Judy Lockhart, Mission Viejo, CA FHC
>>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> List owner:  ileenjohnson@...
> Unsubscribe: FHCNET-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe:   Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FHCNET
>             or send blank email to FHCNET-subscribe@...!
> Groups Links
>
>
>

More dit names:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~unclefred/DitNames.html

Newspapers:
http://news.nnyln.net/

Wills:
http://www.sampubco.com/

EllisIsland, etc: (best search engine)
http://stevemorse.org/ellis/passengers.php

Published families/lists/boards/freepages:
www.rootsweb.com

Worldwide genealogy Locations:
http://www.worldgenweb.org/

Regards, Fred

From: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FHCNET@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Ralph and Linda Miller
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 4:06 PM
To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [FHCNET] your favorite internet sites


Here are a few:

www.automatedgenealogy.com <http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/> - free
- Canada 1901, 1911 censuses - very useful.

http://www.genealogie.umontreal.ca/en/ - P.R.D.H. (Quebec vital records,
early through 1800, some later deaths) - subscription required -
excellent site.

<http://www.ddd.dda.dk/dddform2_uk.asp>
http://www.ddd.dda.dk/dddform2_uk.asp - Danish census index site - free.

http://www.arkivalieronline.dk/English/default.aspx - Danish parish
records and census site - registration (but not $) required; a little
tricky so far

http://www.genlias.nl/en/page0.jsp - Netherlands archive site - free -
English available; excellent.

http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~afgs/index1.html - French
Canadian "Dit" Surnames - good way to track surname changes in Quebec
(also includes some anglicizations)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think it is a wonderful concept that will be difficult to properly
implement. As has been alluded to, nFS currently still has MAJOR problems
with records that are combinations of people who are NOT the same. Until
that issue is resolved, attaching pictures just adds to the complexity. When
there are records in nFS that have such problems as age ranges for
birthdates spanning over a hundred years, people combined with a parent or
grandparent of the same name and so on I foresee images as a huge source of
contention.

As an example, consider what might happen if someone adds a picture for John
Doe (who has his son, John Jr. combined in error). When someone else later
(properly) uncombines Jr., WHO does the picture stay attached to? Or do you
duplicate the picture and have it travel with both records, one of which is
wrong? Will you only allow the original uploader to delete or correct a
picture attachment error?

In the current system, one cannot edit another person's submission, only add
another opinion or dispute. While there are some advantages to having a
situation where information is never removed, carrying that same principle
into pictures means there will be a lot of opinions like, "The picture
attached to PID xyz is NOT really Aunt Sally".

I do think it would be a wonderful addition for settled lines where everyone
is in agreement on the pedigree. But unless you can keep pictures out of the
mixed up lines, or have some way to enforce some kind of strict
documentation that the picture really is the claimed person, I say that your
resources are better spent elsewhere. I believe it would be more prudent to
fix the current problems before moving on to something new that will suffer
the same flaw.

Gary Templeman

----- Original Message -----
From: "timothygcross" <timothygcross@...>
To: <FHCNET@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 6:24 AM
Subject: [FHCNET] FamilySearch Affiliate Information Sharing


> This is an example of a post that I would like feedback on regarding the
> affiliates.
<snip>  One example of this is www.photoloom.com.
>
> www.photoloom.com is a site where we are able to upload pictures of our
> ancestors.  Since www.photoloom.com is an affiliate, we are able to log
> into nFS from this site and access the FamilySearch Tree.  This tree
> information is then used to identify persons in the photos.  Once our
> ancestors are identified in the pictures, this information is made
> available to the FamilySearch Community via the FS Person ID.  Imagine
> pictures of your ancestors on every pedigree draw by FamilySearch or an
> Affiliate.

Go to http://www.telusplanet.net/public/mtoll/
  This is a website by one of our consultants at the Lethbridge, alberta FHC.
Lots of links to Canada as well as all over the world.


To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
From: paxnjudy@...
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 12:39:38 -0800
Subject: [FHCNET] your favorite internet sites





We are teaching several upcoming classes at our FHC, and I'd like to update
our handout on internet sites - both US and worldwide.

I'd love to hear about your favorites - anything new, preferably. I'm a 45
year veteran of genealogy, and know about the tried and true ones like
Cyndislist and usgenweb, multimap, Free BMD, FHC portal and Record Search
Pilot, etc. Some worldwide sites would be nice. I am especially ignorant on
Canadian research.

Thanks -- Judy Lockhart, Mission Viejo, CA FHC

>

>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>
>>
>
>
>

>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> List owner: ileenjohnson@...
> Unsubscribe: FHCNET-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe: Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FHCNET
> or send blank email to FHCNET-subscribe@...!
> Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature database 4905 (20100301) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4906 (20100301) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com





_________________________________________________________________
Introducing Windows® phone.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9708122

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have posted a .pdf file containing my "analysis" of some of the new
FamilySearch affiliate programs.  I started this project trying to make a spread
sheet listing the software and the features each provided.  The more I worked on
this the more confused I became.  It is nigh impossible to compare the programs
with one another since they all have similar, yet different, features.

So this is my compromise.  I tried to keep it positive, focusing on the strong
points of each program rather than the negative (what it lacked or what we
disliked).

To download the file go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FHCNET/files/.  As
always, if you do not have a Yahoo ID and sign-in,please email me at
ileenjohnson@... and I will email a copy to you.

Ileen Johnson
FHCNET List Owner

On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 4:24 AM, timothygcross <timothygcross@...> wrote:
> My questions for the group include:
> 1.  Is the FamilySearch Community concept appealing?
> 2.  Are there sites you would like to see become part of the FamilySearch
Community?
> 3.  Do you think this particular example of photo tagging is something youth
would engage in?  Youth currently do similar tagging of photos on facebook, just
not for their ancestors.
>

#3, Maybe at some point.  I'm cautious right now for reasons I'll make clear.
#2, Findagrave.com.  It already has a large collection of headstone
photos.  It does have some genealogy lines, but it doesn't handle it
all that well and it's a secondary purpose of the site.
#1, Yes, with reservations.  One has to consider all the ways that
people use, abuse, and get bent out of shape about.  One would need to
craft some kind of policy about how to handle things.

Some issues I've seen or at least heard of:
- Someone will take photos from the site and post it elsewhere without
permission. (Technically illegal due to copyright restrictions.)

- Someone will take photos from other sites and post it to nFS without
proper permission.

- Someone will post "documents" using the photo feature.

- Someone will post generic photos - such as the steamship they
crossed over on, or a Purple Heart for a soldier was was awarded one.

- Sooner or later someone will upload something offensive.  Perhaps
blatantly offensive, or at least upsetting - such as a criminal mug
shot.  Or perhaps a post-mortem photo.

- Someone will upload a photo that someone disputes as being the wrong person.

- What about photos uploaded with large "copyright" messages or watermarks?

In short, any stupid thing you can think of WILL happen.  Some
reasonable, some "out there".

For myself, I think I'd like the option to restrict the photo.  For
example,it would only be visible to those "of blood".  It wouldn't be
visible to looky-loos.

To avoid the problem when a person is "split", I'd suggest that a
photo be attached to only one singular person ID.  That way, the
person could only be combined, never split.

TreeSeek doesn't know how to handle diacritics for names and places in foreign
languages.  It leaves these letters out altogether.

--- In FHCNET@yahoogroups.com, Tim Cross <timothygcross@...> wrote:
>
> The interesting thing about affiliate sites is the more traffic they see, the
more options they have to make the site free while making money via ads or
something else.
> Photoloom currently charges an annual fee.  
> TreeSeek is currently free.  The pdf files that TreeSeek creates can be
saved, shared (email, etc.), or printed out.  
> I recently emailed a 9-generation chart to my ward consultant who is much
better at research than I am.  Within a week she showed up at my door with
hardcopy printouts of sources that extended one of my end-of-lines.  FH
Consultants are awesome!
> Tim
>

Welcome Russell Houghton as a FHCNET moderator.  I'm getting up in years and
want to be sure FHCNET continues if anything ever happens to me.  We will be
working together to moderate FHCNET.

Ileen Johnson
FHCNET List Owner


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I must disagree.  I think this is a great place to post and to read opinions
and comments regarding FS affiliates - or any other program or website that
may be used by patrons.

Eric

To: FHCNET@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FHCNET] Feedback on FamilySearch Affiliates

Tim -

I don't think I can adequately express how glad I am that you're here and
interested in hearing from us.  I'd be more than happy to provide feedback,
but would suggest that any requested info be sent to you directly and kept
off the list.  Our opinions about the software we use, and the need (or lack
of need) for an affiliate program can lean a little toward dogmatism ...
they can make for interesting reading, but really detract from the spirit of
the group.

What kind of feedback are you looking for, specifically?  While I can't
speak for the other members of the list, I don't know when a feature that I
desire (but can't get) or an issue that bugs me is the result of an
affiliate's programming priorities or a shortcoming in the API.

- Stephen


On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 7:40 PM, timothygcross
<timothygcross@...>wrote:

> I continue to be impressed with the knowledge and experience this group
> provides.
>
> My current assignment is with FamilySearch Affiliates -- companies
> developing products and services that work with FamilySearch.  Is it
> appropriate for me to request feedback occasionally from this group
> regarding FamilySearch Affiliates?
>
> Tim
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

List owner:  ileenjohnson@...
Unsubscribe: FHCNET-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe:   Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FHCNET
              or send blank email to FHCNET-subscribe@...!
Groups Links

Download the FHL favourites from the landesk management site.  It is
extensive.

Eric

Subject: [FHCNET] your favorite internet sites

We are teaching several upcoming classes at our FHC, and I'd like to update
our handout on internet sites - both US and worldwide.

I'd love to hear about your favorites - anything new, preferably.  I'm a 45
year veteran of genealogy, and know about the tried and true ones like
Cyndislist and usgenweb, multimap, Free BMD, FHC portal and Record Search
Pilot, etc. Some worldwide sites would be nice. I am especially ignorant on
Canadian research.

Thanks -- Judy Lockhart, Mission Viejo, CA FHC


  >

>

>>

>>

>>


>>

>>

>>
>>
>
>
>

>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> List owner:  ileenjohnson@...
> Unsubscribe: FHCNET-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe:   Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FHCNET
>             or send blank email to FHCNET-subscribe@...!
> Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature database 4905 (20100301) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4906 (20100301) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com





------------------------------------

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