I believe any woman who had relations with a non-jewish man is ineligible to
marry a kohen - whether or not there was consent.  And if she doesn't know if
her attacker was Jewish, it depends on the probability based on local.




________________________________
From: Steve Katz <skatz80817@...>
To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 6:11:02 AM
Subject: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?

 
Are you Kohen eligible? It seems that some women are being misinformed as to
whether they are eligible to marry a Kohen. According to halacha (and I
have checked this with several Rabbis, including one who is considered the
neighborhood posek), only if you are divorced, a convert or have had
intimate consensual relations with a NON-Jewish man are you then not
eligible.

Having had relations with a JEWISH man does not disqualify you from marrying
a Kohen (unless you are disqualified for one of the other two reasons).

__________________________________________________________

Steve Katz
Forest Hills, NY

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That's what Steve just said- except he said CONSENSUAL relations. Having been
ch"v attacked may be different.

Who would this posek be, Steve? I believe that, especially in matters so
important to Jewish society, rabbis worth their Halachic salt should have no
qualms about putting their names and reputations behind their opinions. There's
no reason for secrecy.





________________________________
From: Madrega Mom <madrega_mom@...>
To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 12:50:37 PM
Subject: Re: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?


I believe any woman who had relations with a non-jewish man is ineligible to
marry a kohen - whether or not there was consent.  And if she doesn't know if
her attacker was Jewish, it depends on the probability based on local.

________________________________
From: Steve Katz <skatz80817@...>
To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 6:11:02 AM
Subject: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?


Are you Kohen eligible? It seems that some women are being misinformed as to
whether they are eligible to marry a Kohen. According to halacha (and I
have checked this with several Rabbis, including one who is considered the
neighborhood posek), only if you are divorced, a convert or have had
intimate consensual relations with a NON-Jewish man are you then not
eligible.

Having had relations with a JEWISH man does not disqualify you from marrying
a Kohen (unless you are disqualified for one of the other two reasons).

__________________________________________________________

Steve Katz
Forest Hills, NY

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Madrega is correct.

Consensual or not consensual does not matter.

Gavriel

On Wed, 10 Nov 2010, Shimon Metz wrote:

> That's what Steve just said- except he said CONSENSUAL relations. Having been
> ch"v attacked may be different.
>
> Who would this posek be, Steve? I believe that, especially in matters so
> important to Jewish society, rabbis worth their Halachic salt should have no
> qualms about putting their names and reputations behind their opinions.
There's
> no reason for secrecy.
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Madrega Mom <madrega_mom@...>
> To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 12:50:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?
>
>
> I believe any woman who had relations with a non-jewish man is ineligible to
> marry a kohen - whether or not there was consent.  And if she doesn't know if
> her attacker was Jewish, it depends on the probability based on local.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Steve Katz <skatz80817@...>
> To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 6:11:02 AM
> Subject: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?
>
>
> Are you Kohen eligible? It seems that some women are being misinformed as to
> whether they are eligible to marry a Kohen. According to halacha (and I
> have checked this with several Rabbis, including one who is considered the
> neighborhood posek), only if you are divorced, a convert or have had
> intimate consensual relations with a NON-Jewish man are you then not
> eligible.
>
> Having had relations with a JEWISH man does not disqualify you from marrying
> a Kohen (unless you are disqualified for one of the other two reasons).
>
> __________________________________________________________
>
> Steve Katz
> Forest Hills, NY
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

It seems there may be differences of opinion. Of course, if no rabbis ever put
their names to their opinions, they're not worth much.




________________________________
From: Gavriel <gyarmish@...>
To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, November 11, 2010 11:32:12 PM
Subject: Re: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?


Madrega is correct.

Consensual or not consensual does not matter.

Gavriel

On Wed, 10 Nov 2010, Shimon Metz wrote:

> That's what Steve just said- except he said CONSENSUAL relations. Having been
> ch"v attacked may be different.
>
> Who would this posek be, Steve? I believe that, especially in matters so
> important to Jewish society, rabbis worth their Halachic salt should have no
> qualms about putting their names and reputations behind their opinions.
There's
> no reason for secrecy.
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Madrega Mom <madrega_mom@...>
> To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 12:50:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?
>
>
> I believe any woman who had relations with a non-jewish man is ineligible to
> marry a kohen - whether or not there was consent.  And if she doesn't know if
> her attacker was Jewish, it depends on the probability based on local.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Steve Katz <skatz80817@...>
> To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 6:11:02 AM
> Subject: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?
>
>
> Are you Kohen eligible? It seems that some women are being misinformed as to
> whether they are eligible to marry a Kohen. According to halacha (and I
> have checked this with several Rabbis, including one who is considered the
> neighborhood posek), only if you are divorced, a convert or have had
> intimate consensual relations with a NON-Jewish man are you then not
> eligible.
>
> Having had relations with a JEWISH man does not disqualify you from marrying
> a Kohen (unless you are disqualified for one of the other two reasons).
>
> __________________________________________________________
>
> Steve Katz
> Forest Hills, NY
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Steve is correct in the case of a woman married to a yisrael. In that case
consual relations makes her forbidden to her husband as in the case of
Sotah but by a Cohen its different.

I don't know of any difference of opinion. The person who said it to Steve
may have confused these two cases.


On Fri, 12 Nov 2010, Shimon Metz wrote:

> It seems there may be differences of opinion. Of course, if no rabbis ever put
> their names to their opinions, they're not worth much.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gavriel <gyarmish@...>
> To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, November 11, 2010 11:32:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?
>
>
> Madrega is correct.
>
> Consensual or not consensual does not matter.
>
> Gavriel
>
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2010, Shimon Metz wrote:
>
>> That's what Steve just said- except he said CONSENSUAL relations. Having been
>> ch"v attacked may be different.
>>
>> Who would this posek be, Steve? I believe that, especially in matters so
>> important to Jewish society, rabbis worth their Halachic salt should have no
>> qualms about putting their names and reputations behind their opinions.
> There's
>> no reason for secrecy.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Madrega Mom <madrega_mom@...>
>> To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 12:50:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?
>>
>>
>> I believe any woman who had relations with a non-jewish man is ineligible to
>> marry a kohen - whether or not there was consent.  And if she doesn't know if
>> her attacker was Jewish, it depends on the probability based on local.
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Steve Katz <skatz80817@...>
>> To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 6:11:02 AM
>> Subject: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?
>>
>>
>> Are you Kohen eligible? It seems that some women are being misinformed as to
>> whether they are eligible to marry a Kohen. According to halacha (and I
>> have checked this with several Rabbis, including one who is considered the
>> neighborhood posek), only if you are divorced, a convert or have had
>> intimate consensual relations with a NON-Jewish man are you then not
>> eligible.
>>
>> Having had relations with a JEWISH man does not disqualify you from marrying
>> a Kohen (unless you are disqualified for one of the other two reasons).
>>
>> __________________________________________________________
>>
>> Steve Katz
>> Forest Hills, NY
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

This isn't so clear.  I think you are saying a woman married to a yisroel (or
Levi) and has consensual relations with someone other than her husband, then
becomes forbidden to her husband... But a Cohein can't marry anyone who has had
relations, consensual or not, with a non-jew.  Right?




________________________________
From: Gavriel <gyarmish@...>
To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, November 13, 2010 6:32:42 PM
Subject: Re: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?

 
Steve is correct in the case of a woman married to a yisrael. In that case
consual relations makes her forbidden to her husband as in the case of
Sotah but by a Cohen its different.

I don't know of any difference of opinion. The person who said it to Steve
may have confused these two cases.

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010, Shimon Metz wrote:

> It seems there may be differences of opinion. Of course, if no rabbis ever put
> their names to their opinions, they're not worth much.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gavriel <gyarmish@...>
> To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, November 11, 2010 11:32:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?
>
>
> Madrega is correct.
>
> Consensual or not consensual does not matter.
>
> Gavriel
>
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2010, Shimon Metz wrote:
>
>> That's what Steve just said- except he said CONSENSUAL relations. Having been
>> ch"v attacked may be different.
>>
>> Who would this posek be, Steve? I believe that, especially in matters so
>> important to Jewish society, rabbis worth their Halachic salt should have no
>> qualms about putting their names and reputations behind their opinions.
> There's
>> no reason for secrecy.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Madrega Mom <madrega_mom@...>
>> To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 12:50:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?
>>
>>
>> I believe any woman who had relations with a non-jewish man is ineligible to
>> marry a kohen - whether or not there was consent. And if she doesn't know if
>> her attacker was Jewish, it depends on the probability based on local.
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Steve Katz <skatz80817@...>
>> To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 6:11:02 AM
>> Subject: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?
>>
>>
>> Are you Kohen eligible? It seems that some women are being misinformed as to
>> whether they are eligible to marry a Kohen. According to halacha (and I
>> have checked this with several Rabbis, including one who is considered the
>> neighborhood posek), only if you are divorced, a convert or have had
>> intimate consensual relations with a NON-Jewish man are you then not
>> eligible.
>>
>> Having had relations with a JEWISH man does not disqualify you from marrying
>> a Kohen (unless you are disqualified for one of the other two reasons).
>>
>> __________________________________________________________
>>
>> Steve Katz
>> Forest Hills, NY
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes.

In addition a woman married to a Cohen who had relations even with a
Jewish person non-consensually is also forbidden.

A cohen can't marry some one in the category of Zonah - which doesn't
exactly correspond with harlot.
It includes the following:
a. Someone who had relations with someone to whom she is not allowed to
marry. ie that does not include a jewish person if she is single at the
time because she is allowed to marry that person then. But it does include
a Jewish person at the time she is married because as a married woman she
is not allowed to marry that person then, a non-Jew anytime and
of course a close forbidden relative anytime.
b. A convert
c. Someone having relations with a Halal

Look here and in chapter 18 and the chapter before (17):
[http://www.mechon-mamre.org/i/5118.htm]. Its in Hebrew
Rambam

On the other hand a Yisrael does not have these restrictions but only that
if his own wife consensually had relations with someone else she becomes
forbidden to him.
At that point, of course, he would have to divorce her and would not have
to give the Kethuba.



On Sat, 13 Nov 2010, Madrega Mom wrote:

> This isn't so clear.  I think you are saying a woman married to a yisroel (or
> Levi) and has consensual relations with someone other than her husband, then
> becomes forbidden to her husband... But a Cohein can't marry anyone who has
had
> relations, consensual or not, with a non-jew.  Right?
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gavriel <gyarmish@...>
> To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sat, November 13, 2010 6:32:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?
>
>  
> Steve is correct in the case of a woman married to a yisrael. In that case
> consual relations makes her forbidden to her husband as in the case of
> Sotah but by a Cohen its different.
>
> I don't know of any difference of opinion. The person who said it to Steve
> may have confused these two cases.
>
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010, Shimon Metz wrote:
>
>> It seems there may be differences of opinion. Of course, if no rabbis ever
put
>> their names to their opinions, they're not worth much.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Gavriel <gyarmish@...>
>> To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Thu, November 11, 2010 11:32:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?
>>
>>
>> Madrega is correct.
>>
>> Consensual or not consensual does not matter.
>>
>> Gavriel
>>
>> On Wed, 10 Nov 2010, Shimon Metz wrote:
>>
>>> That's what Steve just said- except he said CONSENSUAL relations. Having
been
>>> ch"v attacked may be different.
>>>
>>> Who would this posek be, Steve? I believe that, especially in matters so
>>> important to Jewish society, rabbis worth their Halachic salt should have no
>>> qualms about putting their names and reputations behind their opinions.
>> There's
>>> no reason for secrecy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Madrega Mom <madrega_mom@...>
>>> To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
>>> Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 12:50:37 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe any woman who had relations with a non-jewish man is ineligible to
>>> marry a kohen - whether or not there was consent. And if she doesn't know if
>>> her attacker was Jewish, it depends on the probability based on local.
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Steve Katz <skatz80817@...>
>>> To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
>>> Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 6:11:02 AM
>>> Subject: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?
>>>
>>>
>>> Are you Kohen eligible? It seems that some women are being misinformed as to
>>> whether they are eligible to marry a Kohen. According to halacha (and I
>>> have checked this with several Rabbis, including one who is considered the
>>> neighborhood posek), only if you are divorced, a convert or have had
>>> intimate consensual relations with a NON-Jewish man are you then not
>>> eligible.
>>>
>>> Having had relations with a JEWISH man does not disqualify you from marrying
>>> a Kohen (unless you are disqualified for one of the other two reasons).
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________________
>>>
>>> Steve Katz
>>> Forest Hills, NY
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Judaism makes an assumption that certain people acted a certain way or may
have acted in a certain way and the status sticks. We assume that a convert
had the status of a harlot, even though she may have been a virgin or
converted as a baby (and virgin). The status sticks according to some.

What mechanism was used after the Shoa to permit Kohanim to stay married to
their wives who had be imprisoned during the war and to other Kohanim to
marry survivors of the Holocaust? The very fact that they were prisoners or
inmates in a concentration camp, gave them the status of shvuyot and were
forbidden to Kohanim even though they may not have had relations with
non-Jews?

If a Jewish woman WAS a whore but only had relations with Jewish men, would
she be permitted to marry a Kohen?

I understand that a Jewish woman is not obligated to tell a Kohen that she
had relations with someone she was not supposed to before she marries him
unless it was a public situation such as a marriage or living together for
an extended period of time.

Shimon, there is a reason for secrecy. I once asked a rabbi about a specific
question and I was dumbfounded by his answer. The source came from one of
the most respected poskim of our age. I asked him if I could publish the
answer to help people. He replied that given the current climate, the answer
is no. He felt that the answer could help some people but if it became
widely known, the way would be shut by everyone rushing to be righter then
the right.

These are very tough situations for men and women.

Stephen



-----Original Message-----
From: Gavriel [mailto:gyarmish@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 8:57 AM
To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?

Yes.

In addition a woman married to a Cohen who had relations even with a
Jewish person non-consensually is also forbidden.

A cohen can't marry some one in the category of Zonah - which doesn't
exactly correspond with harlot.
It includes the following:
a. Someone who had relations with someone to whom she is not allowed to
marry. ie that does not include a jewish person if she is single at the
time because she is allowed to marry that person then. But it does include
a Jewish person at the time she is married because as a married woman she
is not allowed to marry that person then, a non-Jew anytime and
of course a close forbidden relative anytime.
b. A convert
c. Someone having relations with a Halal

Look here and in chapter 18 and the chapter before (17):
[http://www.mechon-mamre.org/i/5118.htm]. Its in Hebrew
Rambam

On the other hand a Yisrael does not have these restrictions but only that
if his own wife consensually had relations with someone else she becomes
forbidden to him.
At that point, of course, he would have to divorce her and would not have
to give the Kethuba.



On Sat, 13 Nov 2010, Madrega Mom wrote:

> This isn't so clear.  I think you are saying a woman married to a yisroel
(or
> Levi) and has consensual relations with someone other than her husband,
then
> becomes forbidden to her husband... But a Cohein can't marry anyone who
has had
> relations, consensual or not, with a non-jew.  Right?
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gavriel <gyarmish@...>
> To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sat, November 13, 2010 6:32:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?
>
>  
> Steve is correct in the case of a woman married to a yisrael. In that case
> consual relations makes her forbidden to her husband as in the case of
> Sotah but by a Cohen its different.
>
> I don't know of any difference of opinion. The person who said it to Steve
> may have confused these two cases.
>
> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010, Shimon Metz wrote:
>
>> It seems there may be differences of opinion. Of course, if no rabbis
ever put
>> their names to their opinions, they're not worth much.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Gavriel <gyarmish@...>
>> To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Thu, November 11, 2010 11:32:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?
>>
>>
>> Madrega is correct.
>>
>> Consensual or not consensual does not matter.
>>
>> Gavriel
>>
>> On Wed, 10 Nov 2010, Shimon Metz wrote:
>>
>>> That's what Steve just said- except he said CONSENSUAL relations. Having
been
>>> ch"v attacked may be different.
>>>
>>> Who would this posek be, Steve? I believe that, especially in matters so
>>> important to Jewish society, rabbis worth their Halachic salt should
have no
>>> qualms about putting their names and reputations behind their opinions.
>> There's
>>> no reason for secrecy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Madrega Mom <madrega_mom@...>
>>> To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
>>> Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 12:50:37 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe any woman who had relations with a non-jewish man is
ineligible to
>>> marry a kohen - whether or not there was consent. And if she doesn't
know if
>>> her attacker was Jewish, it depends on the probability based on local.
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Steve Katz <skatz80817@...>
>>> To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
>>> Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 6:11:02 AM
>>> Subject: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?
>>>
>>>
>>> Are you Kohen eligible? It seems that some women are being misinformed
as to
>>> whether they are eligible to marry a Kohen. According to halacha (and I
>>> have checked this with several Rabbis, including one who is considered
the
>>> neighborhood posek), only if you are divorced, a convert or have had
>>> intimate consensual relations with a NON-Jewish man are you then not
>>> eligible.
>>>
>>> Having had relations with a JEWISH man does not disqualify you from
marrying
>>> a Kohen (unless you are disqualified for one of the other two reasons).
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________________
>>>
>>> Steve Katz
>>> Forest Hills, NY
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Stephen,

I don't see why anything should change. There were always prosoners and
always issues like these. It may be hard but you can't throw something in
Judaism out because its difficult or not politically correct at the
moment.

The convert is not a harlot. A convert cannot marry a Cohen even if she
became a convert below the age of 3, which is the age below which we
consider any relationship to be irrelevant anyways.

Regarding the concentration camps - a prisoner, who we assume was forced
to have relations against their will, is only considered as such when
there are no other Jewish people there who can say that they were there
and nothing happened. Even if there were 2 women together it is enough to
accept that nothing happened and they are permitted to a Cohen.

I think that the issue you refer to in the holocaust may have concerned a
woman who was married and came back not knowing if her husband is still
alive - the question being: can we assume that after x amount of time
given the holocaust situation that he perished - so that she can remarry.

Regarding the case of relations with only Jewish men, I myself may feel
uncomfortable with it -
I am a Cohen -
but it is permitted since the Jewish man is someone with whom she was
allowed to marry as I mentoned in the previous email.

So, the only possibility I can see about a woman not being obligated to
tell a Cohen could only be if she only had relations with a Jewish
person.

Even then I am not so sure its a very nice thing to do and I wonder if
someone can claim Mekach Tous (faulty marriage) later even though she is
not forbidden to him. That would be like any time you marry someone who
misleads you on issues of importance.

I would say though that in the last case she should not have to
tell him immediately - to give it a little chance - but after meeting him a few
times at some point - its the only fair thing to do.

Gavriel



On Sun, 14 Nov 2010, YYZ wrote:

> Judaism makes an assumption that certain people acted a certain way or may
> have acted in a certain way and the status sticks. We assume that a convert
> had the status of a harlot, even though she may have been a virgin or
> converted as a baby (and virgin). The status sticks according to some.
>
> What mechanism was used after the Shoa to permit Kohanim to stay married to
> their wives who had be imprisoned during the war and to other Kohanim to
> marry survivors of the Holocaust? The very fact that they were prisoners or
> inmates in a concentration camp, gave them the status of shvuyot and were
> forbidden to Kohanim even though they may not have had relations with
> non-Jews?
>
> If a Jewish woman WAS a whore but only had relations with Jewish men, would
> she be permitted to marry a Kohen?
>
> I understand that a Jewish woman is not obligated to tell a Kohen that she
> had relations with someone she was not supposed to before she marries him
> unless it was a public situation such as a marriage or living together for
> an extended period of time.
>
> Shimon, there is a reason for secrecy. I once asked a rabbi about a specific
> question and I was dumbfounded by his answer. The source came from one of
> the most respected poskim of our age. I asked him if I could publish the
> answer to help people. He replied that given the current climate, the answer
> is no. He felt that the answer could help some people but if it became
> widely known, the way would be shut by everyone rushing to be righter then
> the right.
>
> These are very tough situations for men and women.
>
> Stephen
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gavriel [mailto:gyarmish@...]
> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 8:57 AM
> To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?
>
> Yes.
>
> In addition a woman married to a Cohen who had relations even with a
> Jewish person non-consensually is also forbidden.
>
> A cohen can't marry some one in the category of Zonah - which doesn't
> exactly correspond with harlot.
> It includes the following:
> a. Someone who had relations with someone to whom she is not allowed to
> marry. ie that does not include a jewish person if she is single at the
> time because she is allowed to marry that person then. But it does include
> a Jewish person at the time she is married because as a married woman she
> is not allowed to marry that person then, a non-Jew anytime and
> of course a close forbidden relative anytime.
> b. A convert
> c. Someone having relations with a Halal
>
> Look here and in chapter 18 and the chapter before (17):
> [http://www.mechon-mamre.org/i/5118.htm]. Its in Hebrew
> Rambam
>
> On the other hand a Yisrael does not have these restrictions but only that
> if his own wife consensually had relations with someone else she becomes
> forbidden to him.
> At that point, of course, he would have to divorce her and would not have
> to give the Kethuba.
>
>
>
> On Sat, 13 Nov 2010, Madrega Mom wrote:
>
>> This isn't so clear.  I think you are saying a woman married to a yisroel
> (or
>> Levi) and has consensual relations with someone other than her husband,
> then
>> becomes forbidden to her husband... But a Cohein can't marry anyone who
> has had
>> relations, consensual or not, with a non-jew.  Right?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Gavriel <gyarmish@...>
>> To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Sat, November 13, 2010 6:32:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?
>>
>>  
>> Steve is correct in the case of a woman married to a yisrael. In that case
>> consual relations makes her forbidden to her husband as in the case of
>> Sotah but by a Cohen its different.
>>
>> I don't know of any difference of opinion. The person who said it to Steve
>> may have confused these two cases.
>>
>> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010, Shimon Metz wrote:
>>
>>> It seems there may be differences of opinion. Of course, if no rabbis
> ever put
>>> their names to their opinions, they're not worth much.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Gavriel <gyarmish@...>
>>> To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
>>> Sent: Thu, November 11, 2010 11:32:12 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?
>>>
>>>
>>> Madrega is correct.
>>>
>>> Consensual or not consensual does not matter.
>>>
>>> Gavriel
>>>
>>> On Wed, 10 Nov 2010, Shimon Metz wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's what Steve just said- except he said CONSENSUAL relations. Having
> been
>>>> ch"v attacked may be different.
>>>>
>>>> Who would this posek be, Steve? I believe that, especially in matters so
>>>> important to Jewish society, rabbis worth their Halachic salt should
> have no
>>>> qualms about putting their names and reputations behind their opinions.
>>> There's
>>>> no reason for secrecy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Madrega Mom <madrega_mom@...>
>>>> To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
>>>> Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 12:50:37 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I believe any woman who had relations with a non-jewish man is
> ineligible to
>>>> marry a kohen - whether or not there was consent. And if she doesn't
> know if
>>>> her attacker was Jewish, it depends on the probability based on local.
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Steve Katz <skatz80817@...>
>>>> To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
>>>> Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 6:11:02 AM
>>>> Subject: [FrumAndSingle] Are you eligible to marry a Kohen?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Are you Kohen eligible? It seems that some women are being misinformed
> as to
>>>> whether they are eligible to marry a Kohen. According to halacha (and I
>>>> have checked this with several Rabbis, including one who is considered
> the
>>>> neighborhood posek), only if you are divorced, a convert or have had
>>>> intimate consensual relations with a NON-Jewish man are you then not
>>>> eligible.
>>>>
>>>> Having had relations with a JEWISH man does not disqualify you from
> marrying
>>>> a Kohen (unless you are disqualified for one of the other two reasons).
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Steve Katz
>>>> Forest Hills, NY
>>>>
>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>
>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Hillcrest Shidduch Committee will be meeting on Sunday, November 21st, 2010,
7:00 PM, in the YI of Hillcrest, Gold Room, 169-07 Jewel Avenue , Queens , NY
11365

 
All are welcome and encouraged to come.
 
Thank you,
 
Sam Kosofsky 
 Please send inquiries to SAK2120@...




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If a single cannot make it, where should she send her profile so that she will
be represented by someone there?

Thanks,




________________________________
From: Samuel Kosofsky <sammykshmuel@...>
To: englewoodshuls@yahoogroups.com; fivetownsshuls@yahoogroups.com;
frumandsingle@yahoogroups.com; imyirtzahashembyus@yahoogroups.com;
jflatbushonline@yahoogroups.com; KewGardensHills@yahoogroups.com;
kghcachat@yahoogroups.com; kghsingles@yahoogroups.com; sak2120@...;
lisaslist@yahoogroups.com; monseyshuls@yahoogroups.com;
passaicjews@yahoogroups.com; queensshuls@yahoogroups.com;
sishullist@yahoogroups.com; Tri-StateJewishCommunit@...
Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 11:04:05 PM
Subject: [FrumAndSingle] The Hillcrest Shidduch Committee is Meeting this coming
Sunday

 
The Hillcrest Shidduch Committee will be meeting on Sunday, November 21st, 2010,

7:00 PM, in the YI of Hillcrest, Gold Room, 169-07 Jewel Avenue , Queens , NY
11365

 
All are welcome and encouraged to come.
 
Thank you,
 
Sam Kosofsky 
 Please send inquiries to SAK2120@...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

CHANUKA SINGLES PARTY FEATURING THE MOSHAV BAND AND WINE TASTING
Saturday, December 4 · 7:30pm - 11:30pm
Location SASSON V"SIMCHA HALL 1223 CONEY ISLAND AVENUE
BETWEEN AVENUES H & I
Brooklyn, NY
  LIGHT REFRESHMENTS WILL BE SERVED
TRANSPORTATION MAY BE PROVIDED FROM NY LI & NJ FOR A GROUP
PLEASE CALL SHIFRA @347-672-5969.
$40.00 BEFORE DEC 2
$60.00 @ THE DOOR
RSVP CALL SURI @718-810-2845

CHANUKA SINGLES PARTY FEATURING THE MOSHAV BAND AND WINE TASTING
Saturday, December 4 · 7:30pm - 11:30pm
Location SASSON V"SIMCHA HALL 1223 CONEY ISLAND AVENUE
BETWEEN AVENUES H & I
Brooklyn, NY
Created By
Shifra Mendlowitz
More Info LIGHT REFRESHMENTS WILL B SERVED
TRANSPOTATION MAY BE PROVIDED FROM NY LI & NJ FOR A GROUP PLEASE CALL SHIFRA
@347-672-5969.
$40.00 BEFORE DEC 2
$60.00 @ THE DOOR
RSVP CALL SURI @718-810-2845

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A Speed Dating Event for Kohanim and Eligible Women
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City: New York, New York
Location: A Restaurant in Midtown Manhattan
Time: 5:00 P.M. - 9:00 P.M.
Cost: $26.00, if payment received by 12/10/10. $36.00, if payment is received
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Details: A Speed Dating Event for Kohanim and Eligible Women

Time Sunday, December 26 · 5:00pm - 9:00pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Location - a restaurant in Manhattan
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Location will be given to each person upon receipt of payment.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cost:
$26.00, if paid by December 10, 2010. If paid after, price is $36.00. Prepayment
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Friday, December 31, 2010 to Sunday, January 2, 2011



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New Year's Weekend Singles Shabbaton

(ages 30's to youthful 50's)



Located at the Silver Spring Jewish Center

1401 Arcola Avenue, Silver Spring, Maryland 20902



Hosted by Shari Solomon, Stephanie Frumkin, and Fran Hisler

in loving memory of Fran's father, Avraham ben Sender, A"H



Join singles from all over the country for a fantastic weekend of
socializing, fun, meeting new people and gourmet cuisine in a warm and
friendly atmosphere!



Featuring...

* Lodging - Home Hospitality for Friday & Saturday Night

* Delicious and Spirited Shabbat Meals at Shul

* World Renowned Speaker, Rabbi Dr. Ivan Lerner, Psychologist and Other Engaging
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* Dynamic Mixers and Icebreakers

* Table Talk - An entertaining way to meet each other.

* Match Cards - Select people you’re interested in--Matches emailed!

* Delectable Dessert Buffets, Fun Games and Nature Hike

* Motzei Shabbat Entertainment: Comic Hypnotist/Mentalist Ronnie Baras

* Melava Malka & Kumsitz (Bring your own musical instruments!)

* Sunday Brunch Buffet

* Sunday Ice Skating (Optional - Pay at rink.)



Cost:

Early Bird Special: Register by Saturday, 12/25: $149

Register Sunday, 12/26 or after (space permitting): $169



To register or for more information go to JewishSocialScene.com or email
JewishSocialScene@....




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Hillcrest Shidduch Committee will be meeting on Sunday, December 26th, 2010,
7:00 PM, in the YI of Hillcrest, Gold Room,

169-07 Jewel Avenue, Queens, NY 11365
 
All are welcome and encouraged to come.
 
Thank you,
 
Sam Kosofsky




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jewish Social Scene
invites you to a
 New Year's Weekend Singles Shabbaton, 12/31-1/2
at the Silver Spring Jewish Center
1401 Arcola Ave., Silver Spring, MD 20902

Hosted by Shari Solomon, Stephanie Frumkin & Fran Hisler
in loving memory of Fran's father, Avraham ben Sender, A"H.
 
Join singles (ages 30's to youthful 50's) from all over the country for a
fantastic weekend of socializing, fun, meeting new people, and gourmet cuisine
in a warm and friendly atmosphere.

Featuring...
* Lodging - Home Hospitality for Friday & Saturday Night
* Delicious and Spirited Shabbat Meals at Shul
* World Renowned Speaker, Rabbi Dr. Ivan Lerner, Psychologist and Other Engaging
Speakers
* Dynamic Mixers and Icebreakers
* Table Talk - An entertaining way to meet each other.
* Match Cards - Select people you’re interested in--Matches emailed!
* Delectable Dessert Buffets, Fun Games and Nature Hike
* Motzei Shabbat Entertainment: Comic Hypnotist/Mentalist Ronnie Baras
* Melava Malka & Kumsitz (Bring your own musical instruments!)
* Sunday Brunch Buffet
* Sunday Ice Skating (Optional - Pay at rink.)

Cost:
Early Bird Special: Register by Saturday, 12/25: $149
Register Sunday, 12/26 or after (space permitting): $169

To register or for more information go to JewishSocialScene.com or email
JewishSocialScene@....

We look forward to seeing you there!  And please spread the word to your
friends!

~ Shari, Stephanie & Fran ~
Jewish Social Scene
(for select Jewish singles - 30's to youthful 50's)








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A kohen many NOT marry:

* a divorced woman or a safek divorced woman

* a convert woman or a safek convert woman

* a woman who committed adultery

* a woman whose father is not Jewish

* a woman who was kidnapped by Gentiles

* a daughter of a challal (called a challalah)

* a woman who had voluntary or involuntary
   intimate penetration with:

*** a man who is not Jewish
*** a close relative (father, brother, etc)
     even though they are Jewish
*** a mamzer, even though they are Jewish
*** a challal, even though they are Jewish
*** a behemah

*If a kohen intentionally or intentionally married
a woman forbidden to him, his sons, grandsons, and
great-grandsons for all generations are CHALLALIM,
not kohanim.  His daughter and the daughters of
his challal male descendants are called CHALLALAHS.

A kohen may never marry a challallah, and if he does,
then his descendants for all generations are challalim.

* A kohen may not marry a woman who was intimate with
a challal, or the widow of a challal.

* A kohen may marry a widow, if she is not in any of
the forbidden categories, and he is not a Kohen Gadol.
In our time, there is no Kohen Gadol.

* Many Jews who are mamzerim do not know that they
are mamzerim, and many Jews who are challalim do not
know that they are challalim.

And even if they do know, the women they are physically
intimate with might never be told.

So a Jewish woman could sincerely believe that she
is permitted to marry a kohen, because the man she
was intimate with was Jewish, not realizing that
she is actually forbidden to a kohen because
the Jew she was intimate with was a mamzer or challal.

Can you please site the sources for this.  it is very different than the psak I
got when I asked...




________________________________
From: derechemet <derechemet@...>
To: FrumAndSingle@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, December 26, 2010 10:23:10 PM
Subject: [FrumAndSingle] Laws of Kohen Marriages

 
A kohen many NOT marry:

* a divorced woman or a safek divorced woman

* a convert woman or a safek convert woman

* a woman who committed adultery

* a woman whose father is not Jewish

* a woman who was kidnapped by Gentiles

* a daughter of a challal (called a challalah)

* a woman who had voluntary or involuntary
intimate penetration with:

*** a man who is not Jewish
*** a close relative (father, brother, etc)
even though they are Jewish
*** a mamzer, even though they are Jewish
*** a challal, even though they are Jewish
*** a behemah

*If a kohen intentionally or intentionally married
a woman forbidden to him, his sons, grandsons, and
great-grandsons for all generations are CHALLALIM,
not kohanim. His daughter and the daughters of
his challal male descendants are called CHALLALAHS.

A kohen may never marry a challallah, and if he does,
then his descendants for all generations are challalim.

* A kohen may not marry a woman who was intimate with
a challal, or the widow of a challal.

* A kohen may marry a widow, if she is not in any of
the forbidden categories, and he is not a Kohen Gadol.
In our time, there is no Kohen Gadol.

* Many Jews who are mamzerim do not know that they
are mamzerim, and many Jews who are challalim do not
know that they are challalim.

And even if they do know, the women they are physically
intimate with might never be told.

So a Jewish woman could sincerely believe that she
is permitted to marry a kohen, because the man she
was intimate with was Jewish, not realizing that
she is actually forbidden to a kohen because
the Jew she was intimate with was a mamzer or challal.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Madrega Mom wrote:
 
<< Can you please site the sources for this. 
It is very different than the psak I got when I asked... >>
 
Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer, Siman 4, Sif 19:
A Kohen should not marry a woman whose father is not Jewish.

Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer, Siman 6, Sif 8:
A Kohen should not marry a woman who had intimate
physical connection with a challal [even though
a challal is by definition Jewish].
 
I recommend MADE IN HEAVEN by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan.
If my memory is correct, that book mentions the prohibition
against a woman who committed adultery.
 
I do not remember the source for the prohibition against
a kohen marrying a woman who had intimate
physical connection with a mamzer.
 
____________________________________________
 
To receive quick quotes from a variety of
classic Jewish Torah books, please go to:
 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DerechEmet/
 
For Jewish people ONLY! Thank you!
____________________________________________




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is plain scare mongering. Using the logic below no Jew would ever get
married, as they do not know whether the person they marry is not a mamzer.

This just goes to show that nobody should rely on a pesak given on an internet
forum, but should ask their local orthodox rabbi.


> So a Jewish woman could sincerely believe that she
> is permitted to marry a kohen, because the man she
> was intimate with was Jewish, not realizing that
> she is actually forbidden to a kohen because
> the Jew she was intimate with was a mamzer or challal.
>

We're expecting a FULL HOUSE!  Please join us!
Jewish Social Scene invites you to a New Year's Weekend Singles Shabbaton,
12/31-1/2at the Silver Spring Jewish Center
1401 Arcola Ave., Silver Spring, MD 20902

Hosted by Shari Solomon, Stephanie Frumkin & Fran Hislerin loving memory of
Fran's father, Avraham ben Sender, A"H.
 Join
  singles (ages 30's to youthful 50's) from all over the country for a
fantastic weekend of socializing, fun, meeting new people, and gourmet
cuisine in a warm and friendly atmosphere.
Featuring... 
* Lodging - Home Hospitality for Friday & Saturday Night
*
  Delicious and Spirited Shabbat Meals at Shul 
* World Renowned Speaker, Rabbi Dr. Ivan Lerner, Psychologist and Other  
 Engaging Speakers
* Dynamic Mixers and Icebreakers 
* Table Talk - An entertaining way to meet each other.
* Match Cards - Select people you’re interested in--Matches emailed!
* Delectable Dessert Buffets, Fun Games and Nature Hike 
* Motzei Shabbat Entertainment: Comic Hypnotist/Mentalist Ronnie Baras 
* Melava Malka & Kumsitz (Bring your own musical instruments!) 
* Sunday Brunch Buffet 
* Sunday Ice Skating (Optional - Pay at rink.)

Cost: $169 (Pre-Registration Required)

To register or for more information go to JewishSocialScene.com, email
JewishSocialScene@... or call Stephanie at 301-593-7622 or Shari
at 917-501-7099.

We look forward to seeing you there!  

~ Shari, Stephanie & Fran ~
Jewish Social Scene
(for select Jewish singles - 30's to youthful 50's)

Join our Facebook group: "Jewish Social Scene" to find out the latest events
and more!
Click here to sign up for the Jewish Social Scene email list.
Register for our New Year's Weekend Shabbaton on our new
website:JewishSocialScene.com!




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Hillcrest Shidduch Committee will be meeting on Sunday, January 9th, 2011,
7:00 PM, in Congregation Ohr Moshe,

170-16 73rd Avenue, Hillcrest, NY 11366
 
Send queries to sak2120@...
 
All are welcome and encouraged to come.
 
Thank you,
 
Sam Kosofsky




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                     Sharon Ganz & Friends Join
                   America's Finest Singles for a
              PRE-PURIM SINGLES SHABBATON

                         March 4 & 5, 2011

At: Cong. Bnai Yeshurun
     Teaneck, NJ

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Late fee:   $159 (after 2/24)

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JOIN US & BECOME SHIIDDUCH # 66




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> 1) He's 38, sweet, kind, funny, heart of gold, sensitive, hard working,tall
and slim, well put together.
> articulate, Jewish Music is huge for him
> 2)BT 10 years+, very normal, trendy, accepting of others, loves encouraging
and
> supporting others, learns something from everyone he meets. he is modern to
theright, learns at night, has a TV for sports
>
> 3) He has plans to move to NEW YORK but is flexible
> 4)he is flexible abt his living area, plans to move to usa
>
> 5)Needs a girl who's outgoing,old- fashioned in some respects, warm,
sensitive, loves to share the cooking and baking with her husband, put together
(physically and emotionally) easygoing, enjoys going to Shul when possible. The
woman he desires is someone who enjoys jewish music. she should be open to
travelling to date
>
> 6)This man can cook and bake very well.
>. This man has a very special middah of sensitivity to others needs,
> and going out of his way so someone else can smile.
>
> Any leads would be appreciated. He also really in need of shadchanim who can
help him ongoing, he has no family involvement.
> danster29@hotmail. com/ 1 647 342 0924