>From: april frazier <bhmval@...>
>Reply-To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
>To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Gnosis] Re: unsubs...1st
>Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 12:34:48 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>
>Thank you for your wise words of wisdom. Yes,it does
>bring pain to us that those out there who are ignorant
>,those who will not seek to understand and find the
>truth. It bothers me..but it's not like I want to go
>around preaching to everyone. You have to want to find
>it within yourself. You sound like such a wise and
>wonderful person.
>bhmval

Good morning Children of the Light,
The moment unfolds as it does, and humble vessels of God seeking greater
purity and increases in the Truth and Light rejoice. Children of the Light
do not necessarily preach, but they are torches that illuminate the darkest
corners of the material world by simply being their true spiritual being.
This "know thyself" or self-knowledge begins to remove the layers of maya.
Thank you for your blessings.
The gnostics motivated by the Holy Spirit to release Scripture into the
presence of other spiritual beings embrace the moment increasing the Truth
and Light of the father, glorifying God.

During this journey, sensitivity to the psychic and material components of
creation blur reality. If there is any value in the myth of the demiurge and
the subordinate archonic forces, it is the knowledge that ignorance of
religiosity, and ignorance of God the Father are the dominate thrusts
containing or rather preventing gnosis. Take heart in spiritual being. Carry
spirituality like a torch.

Say a prayer for greater Light. "Light up our way, O Lord!"
Love and Blessings, anathematize
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
>http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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On Tue, 01 May 2001 11:57:29 -0500 "anathematize osculumInfame"
<anathematized@...> writes:
>
>
>
> >From: april frazier <bhmval@...>
> >Reply-To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
> >To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Gnosis] Re: unsubs...1st
> >Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 12:34:48 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >
> >
> >Thank you for your wise words of wisdom. Yes,it does
> >bring pain to us that those out there who are ignorant
> >,those who will not seek to understand and find the
> >truth. It bothers me..but it's not like I want to go
> >around preaching to everyone. You have to want to find
> >it within yourself. You sound like such a wise and
> >wonderful person.
> >bhmval
>
> Good morning Children of the Light,

Are we not all children of the light?

> The moment unfolds as it does, and humble vessels of God seeking
> greater
> purity and increases in the Truth and Light rejoice. Children of the
> Light
> do not necessarily preach, but they are torches that illuminate the
> darkest
> corners of the material world by simply being their true spiritual
> being.

Are you saying the spiritual world is light and the material world is
darkness?

> This "know thyself" or self-knowledge begins to remove the layers of
> maya.
> Thank you for your blessings.
> The gnostics motivated by the Holy Spirit to release Scripture into
> the
> presence of other spiritual beings embrace the moment increasing the
> Truth
> and Light of the father, glorifying God.

What are you calling Scripture?

>
> During this journey, sensitivity to the psychic and material
> components of
> creation blur reality. If there is any value in the myth of the
> demiurge and
> the subordinate archonic forces, it is the knowledge that ignorance
> of
> religiosity, and ignorance of God the Father are the dominate
> thrusts
> containing or rather preventing gnosis. Take heart in spiritual
> being. Carry
> spirituality like a torch.
>
> Say a prayer for greater Light. "Light up our way, O Lord!"
> Love and Blessings, anathematize

Are you saying  "lead by example"?

Ken
________________________________________________________________
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MM Guys

I apologise to those who may recieve this more than once as it is being
crossposted to a number of lists.

This is from the Naacal tablets. The Naacals themselves claim to have come from
the "MotherLand of Man" written as Mu in their tongue, well, english
transliteration at least.

===============

Originally, the universe was only a soul or spirit. Everything was without life
- calm, silent, soundless. Void and dark was the immensity of space. Only the
supreme Spirit, the great self-existing Power, the Creator, the Seven Headed
Serpent, moved within the abyss of the darkness.

The disire came to Him to create worlds and He created worlds; and the desire
came to him to create the earth, with living things upon it, and He created the
earth and all therein.

And this is the manner of the creation of the earth, with all the living things
upon it:

The seven superlative intellects of the Seven-Headed Serpent gave seven
commands:

'Let the gases which are without form and scattered through space be brought
together, and then out of them let the earth be formed.' The gases then
assembled themselves into a whirling mass.

'Let the gases solidify to form the earth.' Then the gases solidified; volumes
were left on the outside, out of which water and the atmosphere were to be
formed; and volumes were enveloped within th new world. Darkness prevailed and
there was no sound, for as yet neither the atmosphere nor the waters were
formed.

'Let the outside gases be seperated and let them form the atmosphere and the
waters.' And the gases were seperated; one part went to form the waters, and the
waters settled upon the earth and covered it's face so that no land anywhere
appeared. The gasses that did not form the waters formed the atmosphere, and:
The light was contained in the atmosphere.

And the shafts of the sun met the shafts of the light in the atmosphere and gave
birth to light. Then there was light upon the face of the earth; and

The heat was also contained in the atmosphere.

And the shafts of the sun met the shafts of heat in the atmosphere and gave it
life. Then there was heat to warm the face of the earth.

'Let the gases that are within the earth raise the land above the face of the
waters.' Then the fires of the underneath lifted the land on which the waters
rested untill it appeared above the face of the waters, and this was the dry
land.

'Let life come forth in the waters.' And the shafts of the sun met the shafts of
the earth in the mud of the waters and there formed cosmic eggs (life germs) out
of particles of the mud. Out of these cosmic eggs came forth life as commanded.

'Let life come forth upon the land.' And the shafts of the sun met the shafts of
the earth in the dust of the land, and out of it formed cosmic eggs; and from
these cosmic eggs life came forth upon the earth as was commanded.And when all
this was done, the seventh intellect said: 'Let us make man after our own
fashion, and let us endow him with powers to rule this earth.'

Then Narayana, the Seven-headed Intellect, the Creator of all things throughout
the universe, created man, and placed within his body a living, imperishable
spirit, and man became like Narayana in intellectual power. Then was creation
complete.

==================

MP
Penn



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

IMO:

The Universe is God and God is the Universe.

The physical Universe, which we see and our animal bodies are a part of, is
the body of God.

What we call the spirit world is the mind of God.  What we call our soul is
from and a part of the mind of God.

Every physical thing has a corresponding spirit.

The thing which science calls the Big Bang is the birth of God.  The birth
happened on both the physical and the spiritual level.

There is a third level.  The life-force of God.  The breath of God.  The
thing which animates that which would otherwise be dead matter.  This
life-force is also called the spirit of God, thus much confusion.  When I am
talking about this spirit I will call it the life-force to avoid confusion
with the spirit world which is the mind of God.

This is the true Trinity.  The Body, the Mind and the Life-force of God.
That is all there is.  The All.

What is beyond the All?  What caused the Big Bang Birth of God?  I don't know
and I don't believe it is possible for us to know.  God may not even know.  I
will call it the Unknown and Unknowable God.


Matter is animated by the life-force of God and becomes life forms.  Life
forms evolve into thinking beings.  These animals think, but they only think
on a physical level limited to animal, physical thoughts.  Anybody who has
spent a lot of time with animals such as cats, dogs, horses, or goats, etc.
know they do think.  Their thoughts are limited to cat, dog, horse or
whatever thoughts.  Every physical thing in the Universe has a spirit double
in the spirit world.  So it is with animals.  This spirit double gently
nudges the animal in various ways, such as evolution, but it does not control
the animal and does not directly act in the animal's body.  The animal does
not have a conscience.

Our human animals are different.  They have been nudged into an evolutionary
path that allows a spark of the mind of God, the God consciousness, the
Christ within us, to directly inhabit the human animal mind.  Thus we are all
of two minds.  Human animal minds and spiritual God consciousness minds.

I believe our purpose is to learn to balance our human consciousness and our
god consciousness into perfection.  But first our god consciousness must
learn to wake up fully.  We must become as fully aware of the spiritual side
of existence as we are of the physical side.

That is our goal. That is what we are seeking whether we know it or not.  We,
all of us, are trying to wake up.

Some people live almost completely in the physical.  Their Divine Spark is
completely asleep.  They only think of physical things.  They only act in
human animal ways.  They have no problem with stealing, murder or anything
else so long as they are not punished for it.  If they are sorry for anything
they have done, they are really only sorry for the punishment.  Some are so
physical they don't even think of possible punishment.  They are not sinning.
  There is no eternal punishment awaiting them.  They are simply human animals
acting as animals.  Their Divine Spark is asleep.

Human laws are made for such people to keep them from running completely
amuck.  Some of them can learn to live within cultural limits because of the
threat of punishment just as a dog or cat can be house trained.  Some can't.
They are either locked away or killed depending on which human society they
live in.

Some of these physical people become "spiritual" leaders.  They can learn
church laws and apply them in a human physical way.  Thus you get things like
Holy Wars and the Inquisition.  They actually have no idea of the spiritual.
They see all spiritual things in a physical way.  Thus they think Heaven and
salvation and their God are all physical.

Churches are full of these people.  They go to church and "believe" in God
because their parents told them that was the thing to do.  Some become
preachers and priests because it looks like an easy job.  They also like to
be evangelists.

Anybody who joins a Church on their own, changes religions without someone
forcing them to, or reads any kind or spiritual or metaphysical book out of
curiosity or anything like that has a Divine Spark that is at least trying to
wake up no matter how physical they live their life.


Animals are neither good nor bad. They are animals. They do not do good
things or bad things.  They do animal things.

A cat in the wild acts as a cat.  A female cat may mate with a neighbor male
cat for years.  One year a new, strong male cat moves into the area.  He
fights the resident male.  The new cat wins.  The female then mates with the
new male.  No wrong has been committed.  These are natural cat acts.  That's
what cats do.  The female has kittens.  For some reason she may abandon one
or more of them.  She may kill one or more of them.  She is not doing wrong.
She is doing a mother cat thing.  She will not rot is some cat hell for
killing her kitten(s).  She is a cat animal and she does cat animal things.
If the female cat kills something, the male cat will take it away for himself
if he is in the area.  She may have to kill something else for herself and
her kittens.  Again, a cat thing, not a bad thing.

The same is true with our human animals.  When we do human things, we are not
being bad.  We are not sinning.  We are acting as human animals.  When we
lie, steal, cheat, fight, kill, have sex with each other's mates or do any of
the other things we have been told are bad, we are not sinning.  We are just
being human animals.  These things only seem wrong to us who have developed
our spiritual self from a mere spark into a flame.

This is why we should not judge.  We especially must not judge ourselves. It
is not our human animal's fault it does human animal things and it is not our
spiritual self's fault that our human animal does human animal things.

I am trying to point out that the same behavior we call bad or undesirable in
humans is normal behavior in animals.  These things are not bad or wrong or
sins, they are simply normal behavior for our human animal part of our self.
Thus we should not judge ourselves for doing wrong when we are being normal.

I have observed animals, both in their natural environment and domesticated,
all my life.  It is quite normal for animal parents to fight with their
children as the children approach adulthood.  Right now I have a mother goat
who acts like she absolutely hates her adult children.

This is also common in humans.  When adult human children are forced to life
with a parent or parents, trouble is often the result.  This is human animal
behavior on the part of the parents.  No mater how much they love the child,
they make trouble.  If you find yourself in this situation the only options
are either leave, or understand it is natural human behavior on the part of
the parent and ignore it.  There is absolutely no way you can reason your
parent's animal out of it anymore than I can reason my goat animal out of
seeming to hate her adult children.  So, don't even try.

Our divine spark would have a really hard time developing in a completely
animal society.  In human animal social organization the basic unit  is the
pack.  This is about the same as the social organization of wolfs.  The
leader of the wolf pack is the alpha male, the biggest, meanest male in the
pack.  The leader of the human pack, gang, or tribe is the alpha male, the
biggest, meanest male in the gang.

In a social unit where everybody is fighting, stealing and cheating as normal
day to day existence it is very hard for the divine spark to grow.


Thus the spark began to influence the human animals towards a less violent
organization.  The idea that leadership should be inherited instead of seized
was a step forward.  Gradually over thousands of years the god within us has
tried to guide society towards an organization which is more conductive to
spiritual growth.  It has taken a long time and we are not there yet.  I was
asked a few days ago if we should engage in political activity.  My answer is
if you have the urge, do it.  If you don't, don't.  And don't let anyone try
to manipulate you into political activity by saying it is your duty.  Your
only duty is to the god consciousness within you.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

In spite of the non-spiritual political and social environments in which they
have lived many people have managed to grow their divine spark into a flame
of god consciousness. Some, such as Jesus and the Buddha have become fully
aware of the spiritual side of the Universal God.

I appreciate your reply George on the discussion of
the universe being in the shape of a man and that Man
is God. You did make me feel better. I guess,being a
gnostic,you almost also have to be a heretic...aren't
we th skeptical ones??
I guess I wonder if you do belive in the universe
being God and I was a little puzzled that you weren't
sure if you ven believed in Jesus. Personally,I do.
And he was an Essene,before he formed the gnostic
movement or gnostic christianity. I mean,otherwise
..what does that mean,??That he followed himself. I do
believe in him and I beleieve in his secrect teaching
that I've read in the book call,"The Secret Teachings
of Jesus..The four gnostics."
Plese tell me why you don't beleive in Jesus.
You've peaked my curiosity bug!<smile>
Wish we would chat face to face..sometimes I like the
eye-to-eye level rather than this,:What do you look
like,?What are your hobbies,?,Are you
married,blah,blah blah<smile>
Sincerely,though I look forward to your reply.
My last question is this..do you meditate? And if so
,how? What tapes,tools ,setings do you use. And if you
find meditaion useful and purposeful or just a plain
waste of time to collect your thoughts ??
Many warm regards,
April
   **Note:**
       I woul d very much like to know what or if your
beliefs on reincarnation are? Past lives and how many
lives..I beleieve in that strongly,just as I beleieve
we all wrote our own chatrs in Heaven before we came
here. I do beleieve in Spirit guides,and I sine I
believe in reincarnation,I beleieve we have met before
in a past life...sorry,...in no means to I tend to
freak you out about all this,that's just what I
beleieve and in the chart I wrote, I prob wrote that
on my next visit to the earth plane(which is now)we
would meet or br in contact again.
Yes,your thoughts on that ,i would like very much
,too.
April

--- GeorgeHarvey2621@... wrote:
> --- In GnosticThought@y..., april frazier
> <bhmval@y...> wrote:
> > Greetings, George Harvey***
> > Have you ever heard of the universe  actually
> having
> > an ending,..<and beginning>??
>
> You mean like an edge?  Well people are always
> claiming they have
> found the edge, but the next year someone else says
> they were wrong
> but now the edge has been found.
>
> >I ask only because I
> > have read somewhere that the Universe is in the
> shape
> > of a man,...some believe to be God??
>
> Is he looking for a woman? :)
> I for sure don't know, but I doubt if God is in the
> actual shape of
> man reguardless of if the Universe is actually God
> or not.
>
> > I'm not quite sure myself??
> > Also, I've often been called a heretic because I
> say
> > that Jesus did NOT die on the cross...what are you
> > thoughts,curious as to your beliefs???
> > Please rsvp.
> > ***April***
>
> Don't feel so all alone. Even as a Gnostic I am a
> heretic.
> Which of my beliefs are you curious about?  Do I
> think Jesus died on
> the cross?  I'm not even sure Jesus existed.  Some
> say he was a pagan
> myth.
>
> George
>
>


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> concept of Orthodoxy came about. After that anything the Church
didn't
> particularly agree with was called Heresy and could get you burned
at the
> Stake. Just like being a Protestant at the wrong place and time
could get you
> killed in Europe.  regards johnmoon3717@a...

Fiat lux,

A less publicized part of Christianity's dark history is the fact
that the Protestants actually have more notches on their gun, so to
speak, than the Catholics do.  They burned more pagans in Europe
during the 1600-1700s, and Catholics were as brutally persecuted in
the American colonies prior to through some time after the infamous
Salem Witch Hunts, than were Protestants persecuted in Europe since
the Reformation.  F.Y.I.

Peace profound, One Love,
Fr. Gregory

"A Short History of Gnosticism
The roots of Gnosticism reach far into antiquity and, during much of its
history , has faced such persecution as to destroy most records about it.
Gnosticism transcends the boundaries of secular religion. Elements of it
can be found among Quakers and Old Catholics, the Hebrew Kabbalah, Zen
Buddhism, Taoism, Sufism, Baha'i', in Greek philosophy, and even
Polynesian Huna. Kabbalistic Gnosticism (or a predecessor thereof) was
probably brought to Palestine from Ur of the Chaldees by Abraham.
Gnosticism even transcends the long-standing war between science and
religion. In fact, it was Gnostic philosophers like Phthagoras, who were
primarily responsible for developing the scientific method. On the other
extreme, we can see Hebrew messianic movements (a constant process in
Judaism) growing consistently out of Kabbalistic Gnosticism. There is no
clear evidence indicating Christianity to be an exception to this rule.
In fact, the earliest recorded schism in Christianity was between the
Gnostics and Pistics. Several of the Gospels are clearly Gnostic in
orientation, including the  Gospels of John, Thomas, Philip, and Mary.
Then, it was the Pistics who were the heretics, and they were often hated
at that, because it was (and still is) Pistics who would burn Gnostic
writings wherever they could find them.
In AD 38, the Church of Antioch was founded by James, Peter and Thomas in
Antioch, Asia Minor.
In AD 64, Pistic Christianity began growing by leaps and bounds when Nero
began throwing Christians to the lions in the arena. Roman courts offered
Christians an out: they could denounce their religion and go free. The
Pistics refused and died for it. The Gnostics were horrified. They were
faced with a veritable Jonestown horror in their midst. Their friends and
neighbors were committing suicide by walking willingly into the mouths of
lions.
While Gnostics respected honesty, they respected life more, and they knew
that the man who would brandish a sword at them was not interested in
honesty, but only in their obedience. They became hated and scorned by
Pistics for refusing to die with them.
Better advertising could not have been bought. No faith, no commitment,
could have been more impressive to the spectators. The arena made
converts by the droves, and it was Pistic Christians that they sought out
to learn more about this powerful religion.
In Ad 325, the Roman Catholic Church was created by a pagan emperor named
Constantine. It was only superficially a Christian Church. The First
Nicean Council was assembled to work out the details. While it was
supposed to have been made up of Christian elders from five major
Christian centers (Rome, Athens, Alexandria, Jerusalem and Antioch), it
also included elders of all the major Pagan religions of Rome. Bishops
from the cults of Mithras, Tammuz, Oannes (Dagon), Ceres, Janus, Bacchus,
Apollo, Osiris, Jupiter, and Constantine's own religion: Sol Invictus,
were invited. It was Constantine's wish that all of the Pagan religions,
then at odds with each other, creating unnecessary conflicts, be unified
into one "Catholic" church. "Catholic" means universal. The proceedings
of that council were conducted by Constantine with an iron hand, and one
of the positions which he insisted upon, and got, was to make Pistis a
doctrine of the new church. Gnosticism could not be tolerated, because it
encouraged its members to question authority. Pistis was thus politically
expedient, because it forbade questioning.
The institution of the papacy was built on the doctrine of being the
successors of St. Peter as Bishop of Rome, and the first bishop. History,
however, does not show Peter to have been in Rome, or to have ever been a
bishop, anywhere. The first bishop of Rome was listed as Linus. "Peter of
Rome" took the place of the Pet-Roma, the "Book of Stone" which played a
major part in initiation into the Eleusinian Mysteries. The statue of
Jupiter (Jo-Peter) in Rome came to be worshipped as the image of Peter,
with the claim that it always had been the image of Peter.
An effective unification of all of Rome's religions had to, not only
include the major deities of those religions, but it also had to place
them in a position subordinate to the over-god, who was to pull them all
together, and to grant him the higher authority. The names of the
disciples, then, corresponded to the names of those deities. Matthew was
Mithras, Thomas - Tammuz, Mark - Mars, John - Oannes, Peter - Jupiter,
Paul - Apollo. Even the Virgin Mary was a variation on older myths. The
name "Jesus Christ" was actually a contraction on "Hesus" and "Christos".
The use of crosses, as symbols, was almost non-existent before. This was
generally regarded as a violation of the second commandment, and the
reminder of Christ's suffering was usually deemed inappropriate.
A vote was cast to decide whether women had souls. The women won by one
vote. Among early Christians, however, it was the women, as much as the
men, who had visions and were accepted for that ability.
The Church of Antioch left the council in disgust. As a consequence, it
was persecuted as far away as Malabar, India.
The new church was virtually Christian in name only. Early Christians,
and not Gnostics alone, were committed pacifists and anarchists. They
refused to enter the military, or any kind of government work. After the
Nicean Council, this changed, such that within 60 years almost every
soldier and civil servant was a Catholic. The traditional Christian
virtues of love, tolerance and forgiveness were quickly swept under the
proverbial carpet.
Constantine never converted. On his deathbed, when he was too delirious
to protest, "Saint Eusebius" entered his chambers, sprinkled holy water
on him, and declared him baptized. Constantine, ruthless as he was, had
put a stop to the persecution of Christians, but his successors began the
persecution of Gnostics in earnest. Popes and Catholic emperors, alike,
have shown, by its fruits, that this religion is, in fact, the utter
depth of evil. Emperors Valens and Valentinian were such ruthless
butchers as to make even Caligula look like a sweetheart. They were
barely the beginning.
· In AD 366, Damasus became pope by the violent removal of his rivals. He
hired gangs of thugs to ambush Bishop Ursinus's party in the Basilica.
137 men were left dead, not counting those killed in the previous street
fighting.
· In AD 375, Valens had untold thousands slaughtered on basis of name
alone, because a magician obtained a prophecy giving the first letters of
the name of Valen's successor: Theta-Epsilon-Omega. Untold thousands were
killed on name alone. Anyone whose name began with those letters, whether
named Theodore, Theodosius, Theodatus, Theophilus, or Theodora, were
sought out and killed. Untold thousands more were also killed on mere
suspicion of occult practice. The heads of those executed were piled high
in the town squares. Dispite his efforts, Valens could not stop the
fulfillment of the prophecy. After his death, an official named
Theodosius, from an obscure province of Gaul, took power. Theodosius, a
Catholic, ordered the continued slaughter of occult practitioners.
· In Ad 1095, in the First Crusade, thousands of Jews in the Rhine valley
alone, were dragged from their homes and slaughtered by crusaders before
they left for the Holy Land. Along the 2,000 miles of their journey, they
butchered and plundered. In Jerusalem, they killed almost everyone they
could find, including Christians, Jews and even allies. Their war cry was
"God wills it!" Raymond of Aguilers proudly wrote: "In the temple of
Solomon, one rode in blood up to the knees and even to the horses
bridles, by the just and marvelous judgment of God."
· In AD 1139, Pope Innocent II put a ban on longbows. Longbows were the
new superweapons, capable of piercing a knight's armor. This ban, of
course, did nothing to keep it out of the hands of Muslims. What it
attempted to do was to keep it out of the hands of peasants, to prevent
them from defending themselves from abusive lords and barons, who would
steal with impunity and casually rape any peasant girl they desired. The
longbow made it possible for peasants to protect their daughters' honor.
This, to a philandering papacy, was intolerable.
· In AD 1191, Richard the Lion-hearted captured Acre and ordered 3,000
captives, many women and children, taken outside the city and killed.
· In AD 1209, the entire population of the Albigens was slaughtered at
the order of Pope Innocent III. The Albigens, in the south of France, was
then the most populous, the most technically, socially, and economically
advanced part of Europe. Its population was largely Gnostics and Arian
Christians, and were a sanctuary for Jews who were persecuted most
everyplace
·  else in Europe. All of these groups had a high percentage of literacy
and read the Bible, which was prohibited by the Vatican. Innocent III was
seeking to put a stop to the "Gnostic heresy", but found it to be
entrenched throughout Europe, so he followed the "Cathar Crusade" with
the creation of the Inquisition, resulting in countless millions of
people being slowly and brutally tortured to death over the next 500
years, under mere suspicion of being witches. Innocent also reinstated a
prohibition against the owning or reading of Bibles by anyone other than
clergy, under penalty of death.
· In AD 1252, Pope Innocent IV gave sanction to the use of torture. When
an inquisitor showed up, whole villages could be wiped out and a province
could lose half its population, all slowly tortured to death or burned at
the stake. The Inquisitor would then leave with all of the wealth, half
of which was sent to the Vatican. Inquisitors became relentless in their
greed. They condemned as many as possible in their drive for riches. Even
the dead were condemned, so inheritances could be stolen from their
heirs.
· Columbus, Cortez, Pizzaro, DeSoto, in the search for God, Glory and
Gold in the new world, left trails of blood. Columbus had about 2,000 San
Salvadorians killed for telling him they didn't know where any gold was.
· Following the U.S. Civil War, the papacy continued to defend the
institution of slavery, even when it had fallen into disfavor most
everywhere else.
· The papacy also continued the practice of creating castratos (boys
castrated before puberty to keep their singing voices high-pitched) for
their own entertainment, long after it had fallen in disfavor throughout
Italy.
Neither is Catholicism alone in being responsible for such atrocity. It
has, in fact, been endemic to almost every Pistic religion:
· The Aztecs, Mayans and Incas practiced human sacrifice. In the 1300s,
the Aztecs, alone, killed about 20,000 yearly.
· India's Thugee sect, before it was wiped out with the help of the
British, claimed the murder of about 20,000 per year.
· Islamic Jihads, mandated by the Koran, resulted in the deaths of
millions over a period of 1,200 years.
· Baha'i's have been a peaceful people, since the religion was founded in
Persia, in 1844. Baha'u'lla'h, their leader, taught against too rigid
dogma. The Islamics disagreed, and killed thousands of Baha'i's. In 1852,
200,000 Baha'i's were massacred in the streets of Tehran.
· In the early 1900s, Muslim Turks committed genocide against the
Armenians.
· Noteworthy is the fact that neither Hitler nor Stalin was tolerant of
dissent or disagreement. Hitler believed himself on a mission from God.
Stalin enforced atheist communism as a Pistic dogma.
· In 1947, when India won its independence from Great Britain, the Hindus
and Muslims began killing each other with religious zeal. A million died,
including Ghandi, before it stopped.
Neither can the word of Pistic leaders be trusted. The Vatican, in
particular, has a long-standing tradition of fabricating its own history
as it went along.
· Constantine burned, along with Christian writings that did not fit his
ideas for the new religion; he also burned the records of 300 years of
Greek philosophy. Neither would he be the last emperor to burn historical
documents to cover his tracks. A controversy was raised by a man named
Heirocles, who accused the Council of plagiarizing the library of
Apollonius of Tyana to produce the New Testament. Heirocles' own
arguments were destroyed, but Euesbius' rebuttal, consisting mostly of
ridicule, survived.
· Circa AD 366, It was Damasus who invented the name "pope", derived from
a Greek word for father: "pappas", in violation of Christ's commandments.
He also invented the doctrine of the pope being the successor to St.
Peter, never mind Peter was never a bishop in Rome, nor anywhere else,
and it is doubtful he was ever in Rome. Meanwhile, Peter was one of the
founders of the Church of Antioch, which had succeeded from the Catholic
Church.
· In AD 378, Emperor Theodosius ordered large numbers of historical
documents burned.
· Circa AD 390, Cyril, Bishop of Alexandria, incited a mob to burn the
Library of Alexandria, and brutally murder Hypatia, its curator and
librarian. For these crimes he was sainted. The Library of Alexandria had
been the largest, most comprehensive library of the ancient world. Part
of it survived to be burned by Pistic Arabs about two centuries later.
· In AD 750, a document surfaced entitled: "The Donation of Constantine"
claiming to have been written by Emperor Constantine giving deed of the
entire Roman Empire to the Church. Such a greed for power grew out of the
acceptance of this story as fact, that there would be as many as four
popes take power in a day, each after having his predecessor murdered. It
was exposed as a forgery on both linguistic and historical grounds,
independently, by Nicholas of Cues in 1433, and Lorenzo Valla in 1440.
· In AD 1030, Pope Gregory the Great took power, declared himself a
saint, and created a staff of forgers to create documents supporting any
new policy as already existing. Gregory was later excommunicated by a
group of Italian Bishops for "preferring licentiousness to honorable
marriage". Most "celibate" popes were actually shameless philanderers,
womanizers, but Gregory, in reinstating the doctrine of priestly
celebacy, had exiled the wives and children of Roman priests, leaving
them helpless, while doing nothing about the prostitutes and concubines
kept by the clergy. Many wives committed suicide.
Christian history has, by no means, been all bad. Of special note is the
Religious Society of Friends, also known as Quakers. The Quakers have
done more work on behalf of world peace than probably all other
religions, with the possible exception of the Baha'i's. The Society of
Friends, founded in England in the early 1600s, has as its central
teaching that everyone has an "Inner Light": "He was the true light which
lighted every man who came into the world." John 1:9. As such, they went
a long way toward rediscovering the teachings of ancient Gnosticism, even
regarding the "Inner Light" as a higher authority than scripture. They
have also been one of the most egalitarian forms of Christianity,
subjecting major decisions, concerning the group, whether in business or
church management, to a consensus. As Saturn Corp. has discovered, this
approach is a very effective quality control device, and many a Quaker
business has prospered by employing that approach.
So what of the followers, the true believers of Catholicism, Islam,
Communism or any other Pistic religion? It is not they who are the evil.
They are merely ignorant pawns in someone else's game. To attack them is
to miss the point and create an unnecessary enemy. Even the bad apples
are merely the symptom of a bad system. If we merely attack bad apples,
we condemn ourselves to keep on doing so, like attacking criminals
without addressing the causes of crime. To do so is to be short-sighted
and ineffectual. It is the Pistic commitment to BELIEF, to the exclusion
of evidence, that is at the root of the evil in our world. To believe to
the exclusion of evidence is to create a schism between your
understanding and your senses. This is nothing less than a breach of
integration, and therefore a breach of integrity. Having done so, you
leave yourself open to be used as a tool of whatever evil your leaders
wish to commit.
Obfuscation, fraud, and even slander are still going on. In fact, they
are widespread among Pistic Churches. Some examples can be found in:
Sites That Slander Gnosticism. An analysis is offered in: Why
Fundamentalist Religions are Really the Devil's Teaching. Should we
really expect any better of the spiritual heirs of one of the most
pathological, and long-standing, liars in history: the Roman Catholic
Church?
Jesus once said that we should beware of false prophets, that we shall
know them by their fruits. The fruits of Gnosticism have benefited many.
Gnostic teaching has brought us science, prosperity, wisdom and a
foundation for peace. The fruits of Pistis have been oppression,
deception, book-burning, torture, the falsification of history, mass
murder, and even suicide in the name of God. "
________________________________________________________________
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Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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In a message dated 5/8/01 10:14:55 PM Central Daylight Time, bhmval@...
writes:

>
>  I appreciate your reply George on the discussion of
>  the universe being in the shape of a man and that Man
>  is God. You did make me feel better. I guess,being a
>  gnostic,you almost also have to be a heretic...aren't
>  we th skeptical ones??

Yes, The original skeptics. We believe nothing except what our own heart
tells us is true.  I don't believe we should accept anything by faith that
any priest, prophet, preacher, angel or guru tells us.  If it don't ring
true, don't believe it.  Don't believe it just because it is in the bible or
some other book either. Don't believe something just because some great
master said it. Jesus and the other masters were no better than you and I.
They were just humans on the way to enlightenment.  Some were more advanced
than we, but some may have been less advanced.  So if it just feels wrong,
don't believe it.
Ask whatever god you pray to and then meditate.  The right answer for you
will come to you. Don't be afraid of your own feelings and insights.

Of course the above applies to itself as well.  If it don't seem right to
you, don't believe a word of it.

George

Good Gnostic advice is truly timeless !



The Golden Verses of Pythagoras


PREPARATION

Render to the Immortal Gods the consecrated cult;
Guard then thy faith: Revere the memory
Of the Illustrious Heroes, of Spirits demi-Gods.

PURIFICATION

Be a good son, just brother, spouse tender, and good father.
Choose for thy friend, the friend of virtue;
Yield to his gentle counsels, profit by his life,
And for a trifling grievance never leave him;
If thou canst at least: for a most rigid law
Binds Power to Necessity.
Still it is given thee to fight and overcome
Thy foolish passions: learn thou to subdue them.
Be sober, diligent, and chaste; avoid all wrath.
In public or in secret ne'er permit thou
any evil; and above all else respect thyself.

Speak not nor act before thou hast reflected.
Be just. Remember that a power invincible
Ordains to die; that riches and the honours
Easily acquired, are easy thus to lose.
As to the evils which Destiny involves,
Judge them what they are: endure them all and strive,
As much as thou art able, to modify the traits:
The Gods, to the most cruel, have not exposed the Sage.

Even as Truth, does Error have its lovers:
With prudence the Philosopher approves or blames;
If Error triumph, he departs and waits.
Listen and in thine heart engrave my words;
Keep closed thine eye and ear 'gainst prejudice;
Of others the example fear; think always for thyself:
Consult, deliberate, and freely choose.
Let fools act aimlessly and without cause.
Thou shouldst, in the present, contemplate the future.

That which thou dost not know, pretend not that thou dost.
Instruct thyself: for time and patience favour all.
Neglect not thy health: dispense with moderation
Food to the body, and to the mind, repose.
Too much attention or too little shun; for envy
Thus, to either excess is alike attached.
Luxury and avarice have similar results.
One must choose in all things a mean just and good.

PERFECTION

Let not sleep e'er close thy eyes
Without thou ask thyself: What have I omitted and what done?
Abstain thou if 'tis evil; persevere if good.
Meditate upon my counsels; love them; follow them;
To the divine virtues will they know how to lead thee.
I swear it by the One who in our hearts engraved
The sacred Tetrad, symbol immense and pure,
Source of Nature and model of the Gods.
But before all, thy soul to its faithful duty,
Invoke these Gods with fervour, that whose aid,
Thy work begun, alone can terminate.
Instructed by them, naught shall then deceive thee:
Of diverse beings thou shalt sound the essence;
And thou shalt know the principle and end of All.
If Heaven wills it, thou shalt know that Nature,
Alike in everything, is the same in every place:
So that, as to thy true rights enlightened,
Thine heart shall no more feed on vain desires.
Thou shalt see that the evils which devour men
Are of their choice and fruit; that these unfortunates
Seek afar the goodness whose source within they bear.
For few know happiness: playthings of the passions,
Hither, thither tossed by adverse waves,
Upon a shoreless sea, they blinded roll,
Unable to resist or to the tempest yield.

God! Thou couldst save them by opening their eyes.
But no; 'tis for the humans of a race divine
To discern Error and to see the Truth.
Nature serves them. Thou who fathomed it,
O wise and happy man, rest in its haven.
But observe my laws, abstaining from the things
Which thy soul must fear, distinguishing them well;
Letting intelligence o'er thy body reign;
So that, ascending into radiant Ether,
Midst the Immortals, thou shalt be thyself a God.



You may want to check out:
http://www.pythagoreans.org



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

MM April


> Greetings everyone!!
> I have but one question,and I hope someone can answer
> this.Does anybody want to discuss the loest city of
> Atlantis,dating back from the very Beginning,and
> possibly(as Edgar Cayce put it) where some if not all
> of us came from?!?
> ***April***

To my knowledge, Atlantis was the last of 3 great continents to disappear
according to legend and itself was a colony of what is said to be the
birthplace of man. !st was Mu (Motherland in the Naacal tongue which is
called "Nag-Maya" by the Buddhist priests of India) which was in the pacific
ocean, 2nd was Lemuria in the Indian ocean, and lastly Atlantis in the
Atlantic. I myself see them all as allegorical. Ever notice the accounting
of the destruction of Atlantis symbolically matches the destruction (flood)
during the time of Moses?

MP
Penn

MM John


>
> In a message dated 5/11/01 3:54:07 PM, penn.dragon@... writes:
>
> << I know I'm somewhat late as for a reply to this. but have you ever
> considered that the Creator may be unbegotten because he is constantly
being
> begotten? >>
>
>  So you would be adding a step to say the original creator? Just trying to
> understand/
> Generally There are I believe, The original creator, 2nd the feminine,
> (creating)( of course in some eschatology's There are only Two, The upper
> level and the Lower., in others there as many as 4, The original creator
in
> theory would not of a necessity know he was creating (according to some
> Gnosis theory) Then of course as yet that are the two others, and then the
> union of the Masculine and feminine, making up the standing alone (or he
that
> stands alone.( sometimes this figure is identified with Christ, other
times I
> believe Simon Magus, identified himself as this figure.
>   But are you then saying the original Divine spark (The father
> /creator/demiurgos)depending on your background, would therefore be being
> created at the same time that he is created, How would that work?
>   Just trying to get this clear in my head of course not that I would of a
> necessity disagree regards johnmoon3717@...
>
>

I understand that your are trying to figure out from whence I come on this
:)

1st, when I refer to the Creator as him, I don't mean he is male; it's
merely a convenience of language on my part for that.

2nd. Another step? (interesting you also mention Simon Magus). Not to my
understanding. As Simon Magus taught, even the Creator is made up of
opposing polarities and is actually at balance between them, and that the
act of creation (just like with us) is a result of these polar opposites
combining. This 2 is my understanding. The Creator is neither male nor
female, but a combination of the principles of each.

To give an idea of the creation using something we each whitness every day,
lets use light and dark as the opposing polarities. Each on it's own is
ownly 1/2 the picture. Combine them however and you have a new entity which
is born from both. This new entity here is called "day" which includes both
light and dark equally in it's nature. And they are continually recombining
and begetting days. Same basic idea behind the Creator being constantly
begotten, only though that this is through each of us.

How could the Creator be created as he creates? When his very creation is
himself. When God said "There is none besides me." He may well have meant
(my understanding) that he is creation itself, in this sense nothing exists
but God, and each new creation within this creation is just God again.

This start to paint the picture of my understanding for you?

MP
Penn

Thanks George...don't worry,I can wait;-)
Write me whenever you can. Thanks so much for your
insights and opinions. I do value them...we have
Grrreat discussions!!
April
--- GeorgeHarvey2621@... wrote:
> --- In GnosticThought@y..., april frazier
> <bhmval@y...> wrote:
> > To George...
> > Never got a reply on the subject of reincarnation
> from
> > you..you mentioned that you can recall some of
> your
> > past lives...care to share? How many?where you
> were?
> > How you died? Have we crossed paths before??
> > I'm interested and wish I could recall some of my
> past
> > lives...I wouldn't even know where to begin?
> > Hypnosis?Past life regressions? Dreams?
> > Please rsvp.
> > Blessings!!!
> > April
>
> April,
> I promise I'll answer all of your questions as I
> have time.
>
> George
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Good morning johnmoon!!
hanks for the thoughts/reply!! I understand what you
are saying about recalling some of our past lives hru
dreams...in our subconcious minds..guess I'm just
frustrated...have you been able to recall any of your
past lives,and how many?Think or know if this is your
last??
Love and Blessings,
April xxoxo
--- BitsyCat1@... wrote:
>  I feel like in dreams, perhaps, between the veil as
> it were, and under
> hypnosis which is a n induced dream state we
> remember fragments of out past
> lives. The mind when near sleep has time (deprived
> of sensory perception to
> search elsewhere for input
> It finds that input in pre experience and by
> projecting forward as well. When
> this occurs it is called Deja Vu.( or prophecy).
> Just a few thoughts johnmoon3717@...
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

--- In GnosticThought@y..., Merlin8638@xxx.xxx wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm sorry I haven't been able to communicate much this past week.
I promised
> to tell you how to do a past life regression on Saturday.  Well, it
is
> Saturday. It just isn't the Saturday I meant.
>
> Simple past life regression exercise:
>
> Find a quite place to set.  Don't get too comfortable or you may go
to sleep.
>
> You can take as long on each step as you like.  You may have
someone read the
> steps to you, you may record them on a tape and play them to
yourself or you
> may open your eyes and read the next step when you are ready.  Or
of course
> you may do it all from memory. Whatever works for you.  When I show
people in
> person I of course lead them thru it. It is best for beginners to
think of
> each thing for from two to five minutes.
>
> 1) Relax and meditate to clear your mind.  If you have never
meditated before
> just shut your eyes and relax and try to think nothing, or
visualize a
> wonderful beautiful place, a seashore for example.
>
> 2) Now, think of a meal you ate yesterday.
>
> 3) Where were you?
>
> 4) What were you eating?
>
> 5) Did you like the meal?
>
> 6) Remember the smell.
>
> 7) Remember the taste.
>
> 8) Were you alone or with somebody?
>
> 9) If you were with somebody, who were they? (If alone, what other
than the
> meal attracted your attention?)
>
> 10) What did they look like? (If alone think of the room you were
in.)
>
> 11) Now, think of a meal you ate a year or more ago.
>
> 12) Where were you?
>
> 13) What were you eating?
>
> 14) Did you like the meal?
>
> 15) Remember the smell.
>
> 16) Remember the taste.
>
> 17) Were you alone or with somebody?
>
> 18) If you were with somebody, who were they? (If alone, what other
than the
> meal attracted your attention?)
>
> 19) What did they look like? (If alone think of the room you were
in.)
>
> 20) Now, think of the first meal you can ever remember.
>
> 21) Where were you?
>
> 22) What were you eating?
>
> 23) Did you like the meal?
>
> 24) Remember the smell.
>
> 25) Remember the taste.
>
> 26) Were you alone or with somebody?
>
> 27) If you were with somebody, who were they? (If alone, what other
than the
> meal attracted your attention?)
>
> 28) What did they look like? (If alone think of the room you were
in.)
>
> 29) Now, think of some time in history you know little or nothing
about.
> Ancient Greece, the American frontier, China in the 1600s, anything.
>
> 30) think of a meal.
>
> 31) Where were you eating your meal? Inside, in the kitchen,
outside, etc.?
>
> 32) What were you eating?
>
> 33) Did you like the meal?
>
> 34) Remember the smell.
>
> 35) Remember the taste.
>
>
>
> 36) Were you alone or with somebody?
>
> 37) If you were with somebody, who were they? (If alone, what other
than the
> meal attracted your attention?)
>
> 38) What did they look like? (If alone think of your surroundings.)
>
> 39) Take as long as you like to explore the world you are
remembering.
>
> That's it.  About three fourths of the people I have led thru this
exercise
> have remembered something the first time they tried.  Most
remembered
> something the second or third time.  Next time you do it substitute
> "birthday" or "feeling happy or sad" or "being with someone you
love" or
> something for "meal".
>
> Any question?  Comments?
>
> Love, Light and Peace,
> Merlin

--- In GnosticThought@y..., Merlin8638@xxx.xxx wrote:
> I posted simple directions for experiencing past lives the other
day. Of
> course you may ask me any questions you wish, but if you want to
pursue it
> farther you might want to get a guide book.  A good one I usually
recommend
> for beginners is "How to Uncover Your Past Lives" by Ted Andrews.
It is
> published by Llewellyn Publications.  Their web site is
>  http://www.llewellyn.com
> I find their books, including this one, all the time at Barns and
Nobels.
> There are of course a lot of other good books on past lives
regression out
> there.  This is just the best for beginners I have found.
>
> No, I don't have anything to do with Llewellyn other than I have
bought and
> gave away a lot of their books.
>
> Love, Light and Peace,
> Merlin

(This is for the Atlantis/Egypt discussion.  If the old boring Guardian says the
pyramids were launch pads, it's gotta be true!  --  Frank)



Pyramids seen as stairways to heaven

Pharoahs used monuments as launch pads to the afterlife, says scientist

By Tim Radford, science editor
The Guardian
Monday May 14, 2001


The pyramids of Egypt could be explained as symbolic stairways to the stars,
according to a British scientist. And - in a twist that will delight New Age
believers in mysterious energies and alien spacecraft - the inspiration for
the pyramids might indeed have arrived from outer space, in the form of a
meteorite.

Toby Wilkinson, an Egyptologist based at Cambridge University, told a
conference over the weekend that some of his theory was "deliberately
controversial, provocative, but tantalising".

He argued, from evidence of the orientation of the pyramids - always to the
northern pole star - and from the names given to estates to finance funerary
cults, and the shape of the pyramids themselves, that they could be seen as
launch pads for the pharaoh's journey to the afterlife among the stars.

"Circumpolar stars are a very good metaphor for the afterlife because when
viewed, they never seem to set: they simply rotate around the pole star.
They are the undying stars, or in Egyptian terminology, the Indestructibles,
a perfect destination for the soul of the dead king," he told a Bloomsbury
archaeological summer school at University College London.

Pyramid structures extend from the north of Egypt to the Sudan, and they
were built over thousands of years. "Where are all the steps that led up to
pyramid building?" he asked. "We stand marvelling at these monuments and
they seem to have appeared almost from nowhere, but clearly something like
that cannot be put up overnight without the infrastructure in place."

This infrastructure included royal command of the economy, systematic
taxation, a body of experience in public works and increasing mastery of
stone as a building material. There had also to be religious or political
motivation. Dr Wilkinson traced the rise of a professional civil service in
seals, documents and grave inscriptions dating back almost to 3,000BC, and
the continuing evidence of Egyptian belief not only in an afterlife, but in
death itself as a journey.

Kate Spence, a Cambridge colleague, had demonstrated in a paper last year
that from the first, the pyramids were all precisely oriented towards the
northern stars. There were further clues in the names, which were crucially
important in ancient Egyptian culture. One pyramid was explicitly called
"the gleaming". Another was called "the pyramid that is a star". From the
1st dynasty onwards - long before the pyramids were built - kings had
founded estates to finance their tomb cults: one of these was explicitly
called "Horus (that is, the king) rises as a star".

"What clearer exposition could we have of the ideology surrounding a king's
afterlife than that?" Dr Wilkinson asked.

Tombs of the first dynasties were concealed by mounds of earth, seen as
symbols of rebirth or resurrection. The first pyramid - the step pyramid at
Saqqara, built in the 3rd dynasty - had its altar to the north, and the ramp
down into its subterranean chambers started from the north face.

"It can also be seen as a ramp from the burial chamber," he said. "Because
if you stand in the burial chamber underneath, and look up this entrance
ramp, you are looking at the northern sky. And this is perhaps a launch pad
for the king's spirit, to eject him straight to the northern stars where he
hopes to spend his afterlife."

Fourth dynasty pyramids - including the Great Pyramid and others on the Giza
plateau - were very carefully oriented towards the stars. Could they have
been modelled on stars?

"What does a star look like in three dimensions? We could only know that if
we had a star that has fallen to Earth for us to look at. A meteorite,
perhaps, a shooting star that has literally come down to Earth."

He had a candidate: a stone - long since lost - that had been revered at the
temple of Heliopolis in the fourth dynasty. It was known as the Benben
stone, and it was represented in inscriptions as conical or pyramid-shaped.
Significantly, the Egyptian word for the capstone, the uppermost stone on a
pyramid, was "benbenet" or little benben. The high priest at Heliopolis was
called "greatest of observers", a title that had astronomical links.

"Could it have been that the Benben stone itself was a meteorite? A signal
from the celestial realm to the earthly realm, something that is worshipped
as a sign from the heavens? Well, it is a rather tantalising suggestion," Dr
Wilkinson said.

"I'm not a geologist, and wouldn't claim to be, but there is a particular
kind of meteorite, a rare kind of meteorite, which as it enters the
atmosphere, is formed into a shape that startlingly resembles a pyramid.
Could the benben stone have been such a stone? Could it have been a shooting
star that had fallen to earth and been worshipped as a sign from the heavens




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 5/14/01 1:48:52 PM Central Daylight Time,
fkovacs@... writes:

>
>  Pyramids seen as stairways to heaven

The original Jacob's ladder?

George

Hi April,

In a message dated 5/8/01 10:14:55 PM Central Daylight Time, bhmval@...
writes:

>  My last question is this..do you meditate?

Yes.

>And if so
>  ,how? What tapes,tools ,setings do you use.

I have been doing it for so long that I just close my eyes and I'm off.
Of course I didn't start off that way.  We had a meditation class for several
years. Each week we would get together and try out various methods we had
heard about or read about. There was always a candle to focus on and usually
some kind of background music.

>And if you
>  find meditaion useful and purposeful or just a plain
>  waste of time to collect your thoughts ??

Very useful. It's how I contact the Gnosis.
I don't contact the Gnosis directly every time I meditate.  In fact I never
set out to contact the Gnosis. It just seems to happen when I go very, very
deep.  When I meditate I try to clear my mind of everything and just be.
Sometimes I find myself in a state of Knowing which is what I call contact
with the Gnosis. In that state I am conscious of everything. Nothing is
hidden from me. I am, everything Is, and I Know Everything.  As I come out of
meditation the Knowing fades something like a dream fades when you wake up.
When I come back to this level of consciousness I can only remember the
feeling of Knowing and sometimes bits and snips of Knowledge.  Then my mind
begins to fill in the gaps between the bits and snips with beliefs and
knowledge from this physical world.  The end result is I have a new personal
myth or belief which has only snips and bits of real knowledge and the rest
filled in by my physical brain. That is how I formed the beliefs in my IMO
which I have posted to this list.

George

Hey there George,
thaks for your reply. I become so frustrated...when I
try to meditate..I can't seem to clear my mind of
thoughts...all kinds of thoughts keep coming as I try
to cler them out..in short,I guess I haven't mastered
or praticed enough to meditate,but I do try.
April
--- GeorgeHarvey2621@... wrote:
> Hi April,
>
> In a message dated 5/8/01 10:14:55 PM Central
> Daylight Time, bhmval@...
> writes:
>
> >  My last question is this..do you meditate?
>
> Yes.
>
> >And if so
> >  ,how? What tapes,tools ,setings do you use.
>
> I have been doing it for so long that I just close
> my eyes and I'm off.
> Of course I didn't start off that way.  We had a
> meditation class for several
> years. Each week we would get together and try out
> various methods we had
> heard about or read about. There was always a candle
> to focus on and usually
> some kind of background music.
>
> >And if you
> >  find meditaion useful and purposeful or just a
> plain
> >  waste of time to collect your thoughts ??
>
> Very useful. It's how I contact the Gnosis.
> I don't contact the Gnosis directly every time I
> meditate.  In fact I never
> set out to contact the Gnosis. It just seems to
> happen when I go very, very
> deep.  When I meditate I try to clear my mind of
> everything and just be.
> Sometimes I find myself in a state of Knowing which
> is what I call contact
> with the Gnosis. In that state I am conscious of
> everything. Nothing is
> hidden from me. I am, everything Is, and I Know
> Everything.  As I come out of
> meditation the Knowing fades something like a dream
> fades when you wake up.
> When I come back to this level of consciousness I
> can only remember the
> feeling of Knowing and sometimes bits and snips of
> Knowledge.  Then my mind
> begins to fill in the gaps between the bits and
> snips with beliefs and
> knowledge from this physical world.  The end result
> is I have a new personal
> myth or belief which has only snips and bits of real
> knowledge and the rest
> filled in by my physical brain. That is how I formed
> the beliefs in my IMO
> which I have posted to this list.
>
> George
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

I couldn't sleep & found this over at amazon.uk.  Made my evening!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1854794450/qid=989910812/202-2660577-69\
56609

Notice the review given by the reader from BOSTON, MASS!  Some things never
change, you know?   Also (to pretend for a moment this is on-topic) it is a fact
that Pythagoras didn't eat beans and forbade his followers to eat beans as well.
What did Pythagoras know??

Frank


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

More about the Archons --

I was talking to a friend later this evening and the subject came around to THEM
again.  It's been that sort of week & it's only Monday (ok, Tuesday morning). 
He told me not to neglect the wonderful gnostic allegories in the movies
recently, & I can't imagine how I forgot.

Two spring right to mind.

"The Matrix" -- the Archons are portrayed as especially sleazy in this one, and
they police the world for anyone who gets a glimpse of the "world as it really
is."  Think of them as corporate spin control artists on steroids.  I cherish
the last scene where Neo (Keanu Reeves) tells them after the showdown that he's
blowing their cover, and soon, Neo says, "we'll have a world without you."

That's GOOD gnosticism; the ancients felt if the Archons could be exposed, their
power would dissipate and before long even they would disappear.

The other movie is scarier.  It's the subject of a conspiracy theory already.

"Eyes Wide Shut" --  The conspiracy theory is this:  Stanley Kubrick got killed
for making this movie (his death WAS unexpected and seems odd if you read the
reports).  The key scene in the picture is when Tom Cruise goes to the exclusive
orgy-cum-power-ritual (allegedly based on the Bilderbergers meetings every
year).  The participants at the ritual/orgy are all masked because they are all
powerful and famous people.  Think presidents, prime ministers, Allan Greenspan,
Rupert Murdoch, etc.  At least one right wing book is out analyzing this thing
from an antiglobalist perspective, but the simplest explanation is even scarier.

Kubrick is saying, THEY'RE HERE.  They're real.  The Archons rule.  They kill
anyone who gets in their way... maybe even Kubrick.

Taken as fiction, both are interesting but quite distinct.  "The Matrix" givies
us science fictional Archons which are more or less traditional:  Superhuman,
super evil, beyond the power of most of us to fight.

"Eyes Wide Shut" gives us the New Archon,. the global elite who rule by stealth
and play god with power they have gotten unfairly.  They're human, but believe
they are beyond human rules and sometimes call themselves Masters of the
Universe (which I find revealing).

Either way, 2 powerful and interesting flicks about an interesting piece of
Gnostic theology.

Frank


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 5/14/01 8:41:27 PM Central Daylight Time, bhmval@...
writes:

> Hey there George,
>  thaks for your reply. I become so frustrated...when I
>  try to meditate..I can't seem to clear my mind of
>  thoughts...all kinds of thoughts keep coming as I try
>  to cler them out..in short,I guess I haven't mastered
>  or praticed enough to meditate,but I do try.
>  April

The trick is to now worry about it.  That's part of the process. Just let the
images and thoughts drift away. As they drift away others will replace them.
Don't worry about them either. Just unfocus. It's similar to going to sleep.
That's what the candle is for.  You focus on the candle (or whatever) and
that helps to not think other thoughts. Then finally you unfocus from the
candle itself.  Also you might try a mental exercise like focusing on a
pleasant place.  Or you might try counting to ten and then back to one and
back to ten and keep going until you forget you are counting.  Anything to
clear your mind of random thoughts.  Focus on one thing, then drift out of
focus.
Also keep meditating. Don't give up.  You are doing better than you think.

George

April asked about Atlantis.  Others answered her.  Here is my opinion:

I was watching the history channel several nights ago.  There was a program
about ancient Egypt and the pyramids.  Someone said "We are a species with
amnesia.  A large chunk of our history has been lost." I believe that is the
truth. There were advanced civilizations before ours. Some may have even been
more advanced that ours.  Something happened.  They fell for some reason.
The ancient Egyptians had records of the most recent advanced civilization.
Those records have now been lost or we just don't understand them.  There may
have been a place called Atlantis which sunk into the sea, or "Atlantis" may
just be the Egyptian name for that lost civilization and "sunk into the sea"
may just be an analogy for the fall of that civilization.   I do believe
there were civilizations before ours. I don't know where they were, but I
suspect they were more or less worldwide as is ours.  I don't know if one of
them was named Atlantis or not and I don't know if the name matters anyway.

Does that answer your question?

George

In a message dated 5/16/01 6:09:50 PM Central Daylight Time,
BitsyCat1@... writes:

>
>  You know One of the things that people do no think about is that its
>  generally considered true that originally there was a super continent(
>  Pangea). Then the Two
>  Split Once then again for Australia(The original two formed The Asia
> European
>  and African continent, and the other form the Americas.
>    This process is generally given a clean continental drift on a computer
>  model. But what if this drift wasn't quite as clean as the computer model.
>  Between the America and the European continent a section is dragged
(Barely
>  balanced on a ridge on the ocean basin, the continental drift continues)
at
>  the edge of the drift is a volcanic area open to the sea.
>    Eventually the drift would pull apart the area that the civilization had
>  been built upon. Originally The area would have been not far from the
other
>  continents edges (Africa, Europe The Mediterranean on one side the
Americas
>  on the other.
>    It would have afforded protection because of the sea. The race in
question
>
>  could not be invaded, could control the approach of invaders, etc. After a
>  while a sea going community would develop (trading with boats and ships)
>  Eventually the drift would be greater, greater and greater sections would
>  sink into the sea as the continents pulled apart.
>   How Long centuries many many or a thousand years.
>  While wars ravages the mainland's diseases and starvation, the continent
int
>
>  he center would have a continuous water supply, protection from war, No
>  contact with diseases.
>   Finally though The two continents would pull too far apart, or speed up.
> The
>  drift  section that was above ground would start to sink and then with the
>  volcanic edge open to the sea it could have been cataclysmic, And viewable
>  from the Coast. It would appear to happen quickly but would have actually
>  have occurred over thousands of years.
>   There would be little if any trace of the center of the rift perhaps at
the
>
>  very edges.
>  Islands perhaps left on each edge of the drift that came apart.

Could very well have happened something like that.

George

Atlantis did exist, it was not one continent only but consisted out of a
couple of continents globally. The placement of the continents on the globe
resembled the way we know it today.

The Atlanteans were a greatly civilised people, with amazing technology,
much more advanced than we were today. Their destruction was due to some
atomic explosion. And it did all sink into the sea. Today evidence of this
can be found along the east cost of America, where walls of this lost
civilization can still be seen deep underneath the oceans waters.

It is believed that the atlanteans had a magnetic device, huge piece of
equipment, that sunk in the region of the bermuda triangle. It is still on
the ocean floor, and that would explain all the strange phenomena occuring
in these areas.

Unfortunately I do not have my notes with me at this time, but I will bring
them to work next time and post more on this subject.

Regards,

Lucille.


>From: GeorgeHarvey2621@...
>Reply-To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
>To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Gnosis] Atlantis
>Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 15:04:25 EDT
>
>
>April asked about Atlantis.  Others answered her.  Here is my opinion:
>
>I was watching the history channel several nights ago.  There was a program
>about ancient Egypt and the pyramids.  Someone said "We are a species with
>amnesia.  A large chunk of our history has been lost." I believe that is
>the
>truth. There were advanced civilizations before ours. Some may have even
>been
>more advanced that ours.  Something happened.  They fell for some reason.
>The ancient Egyptians had records of the most recent advanced civilization.
>Those records have now been lost or we just don't understand them.  There
>may
>have been a place called Atlantis which sunk into the sea, or "Atlantis"
>may
>just be the Egyptian name for that lost civilization and "sunk into the
>sea"
>may just be an analogy for the fall of that civilization.   I do believe
>there were civilizations before ours. I don't know where they were, but I
>suspect they were more or less worldwide as is ours.  I don't know if one
>of
>them was named Atlantis or not and I don't know if the name matters anyway.
>
>Does that answer your question?
>
>George
>

_________________________________________________________________________
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I am just going to take the time in copying my notes for you guys (it will
mainly be in point form), hope that they will be interesting and
satisfactory. Here we go then:

The Civilisation of Atlantis:

a) History, Evidence and Traditions:

*  The main continent dissapeared into the ocean.

*  Atlantis were known by the Greeks, Assirians, Phoenecians, Mayans,
Egiptions, Aztecks and also the SAN people from Africa. This knowledge of
Atlantis were in their traditions and myths.

*  Henri Schlieman and his brother Paul - based on the writings of Plato,
discovered the city of Troy.

*  Homer (writer) talked about an island named Ogigia/Cheira, where the
nymph Kalypso (the daughter of Neptune) was living - this refers to
Atlantis.

*  In the "Le Plongeom", a Mayan script, the following was written: "In the
year of 6 Kan... many earth quakes happened and many millions of people
died." These events happened 8 years before these texts were writen.

*  Colums were found in the ocean, huge structures. Also; Jars in Troy with
the inscription: "These jars were made in the golden and transparent temple
by the law of Chronos of Atlantis" on them.

*  In the Bermuda triangle scaled pyramids (like the ones found in South
America) were found under the ocean. In this area, from the air, structures
resembling highways can be seen going into the atlantic ocean.

*  In the north of Spain, a people called the "Basks / Vasks" lived. Their
language is completely diffirent from the rest of Europe. Their physical
constitution were completely diffirent than of the Spanish. They played a
game called "Pelota", which was very similar to a game the Mayans played.
The Mayans were also able to understand a missionary from Bask. -> Consider
the distance between South America (Mayans) and Spain (Basks), could
something have connected them? What were the link these two peoples had with
each other. It is strongly believed that these two peoples (among many
others) were direct descendants from Atlantis.
To make things a little more interesting: In India a people called "Nagas"
were found, their language was called "Naga Maya", and their number system
are almost identical to those of the Mayans and the Basks.... :)

*  The Olympic games are traces left from the days of Atlantis.

*  Also; Bull fighting = this is an external representation of an internal
process. This art was dedicated to Neptune.

*  More things coming from the times of Atlantis: The Book of Thot (Tarrot)
with its 78 Chapters, The traditions of the Hebrew Kaballah, Devices of
Turkey, Dance of the Giants (Chior-gaor) also know as Stonehenge.

* The actual remains of Atlantis can be found on every continent, because
Atlantis was not just an island, they were a race that inhabited the entire
planet. Madeira, Azoraz, Canary, Bahamas, Crete, Cape Verde, Cuba, Puerto
Rica -> these islands were all the highest mountains of Atlantis.

* More evidence of Atlantis: Sphinks, pyramids, Egyptian Cities, Most
archeological sites in South America, Megalithic Constructions in France,
Ireland, England and North Africa, runic writings, carvings in stone and
also the "speaking stones" or oracles of the stone.

This is just a short introduction to Atlantis, making note of evidence of
this lost civilization. Part two of Atlantis will follow shortly.

Lucille.




>From: april frazier <bhmval@...>
>Reply-To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
>To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Gnosis] Atlantis
>Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 08:32:10 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Thanks Lucille!!!
>You're the best!! I'll axiously await your post..I
>can't wait!!!<smile!!!>
>April
>--- Lucille Koen <lucillekoen@...> wrote:
> > I am looking forward to posting it:) I have some
> > really wonderfully
> > interesting information on both Atlantis and Egypt
> > in a Gnostic context.
> > Speak to you guys soon.
> >
> > Lucille.
> >
> >
> > >From: GeorgeHarvey2621@...
> > >Reply-To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [Gnosis] Atlantis
> > >Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 07:07:49 EDT
> > >
> > >In a message dated 5/17/01 4:52:32 AM Central
> > Daylight Time,
> > >lucillekoen@... writes:
> > >
> > > > Atlantis did exist, it was not one continent
> > only but consisted out of a
> > > >  couple of continents globally. The placement of
> > the continents on the
> > >globe
> > > >  resembled the way we know it today.
> > > >
> > > >  The Atlanteans were a greatly civilised people,
> > with amazing
> > >technology,
> > > >  much more advanced than we were today. Their
> > destruction was due to
> > >some
> > > >  atomic explosion. And it did all sink into the
> > sea. Today evidence of
> > >this
> > > >  can be found along the east cost of America,
> > where walls of this lost
> > > >  civilization can still be seen deep underneath
> > the oceans waters.
> > > >
> > > >  It is believed that the atlanteans had a
> > magnetic device, huge piece of
> > > >  equipment, that sunk in the region of the
> > bermuda triangle. It is still
> > >on
> > > >  the ocean floor, and that would explain all the
> > strange phenomena
> > >occuring
> > > >  in these areas.
> > > >
> > > >  Unfortunately I do not have my notes with me at
> > this time, but I will
> > >bring
> > > >  them to work next time and post more on this
> > subject.
> > > >
> > > >  Regards,
> > > >
> > > >  Lucille.
> > >
> > >Hi Lucille,
> > >I'll be looking forward to seeing your post.
> > >
> > >George
> >
> >
>_________________________________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> > http://www.hotmail.com.
> >
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
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>Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
>http://auctions.yahoo.com/

_________________________________________________________________________
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Also in point form:

*  Altlantis existed all over North America, and there was ancient cities
made by the Atlanteans. These lands were known as Mayolandia.

* The Capital of Atlantis was in Poseidonia and was known as "the garden of
Hesperides".

* Parts of South America: Peru, Argentina, Parts of Brazil -> was known as
the valley of gold or Mauritania. The reason why these parts were named the
valley of gold was due to the legend of Eldorado -> "the city of gold". But
this was not material gold, but the city of Shambala. In this area there was
a gold much more valuable than our gold and it was called "aurichalchum", it
was used in the Atlantean thecnology.

* In Machupichu, lake Titikaka (the highest lake in the world) - there are
evidence of a harbour.

*  After the catastrophy, upto the middle ages, there was an island called
"Nontrabada", the sailers that went to this island came back with many
strange stories of ante duvian animals (pre-historic) etc.

*  Today in the North of Spain on the Balearean Islands (Ibiza), there used
to be a people called "Malabares", with a great knowledge of magic. They had
the peculiar custom of cutting their tongues in two and having complete
control of speech of both parts of the tongue. They were a very developed
people and it is said that they were taken by Melckezedec.

*  More direct decendants from the Atlanteans were:
Tuata de Danan, in the last days of Atlantis they were the guardians of the
light. They had wars with another Jinas people, an evil people, these wars
were fought in the thrid and fourth dimensions. The Tuatas de Danan were
responsible for the recovery of the seed for the Arean race.

* In the times of Atlantis the following places were known by the following
names: Egypt = Caironia, Mongolia = Maraleicia, India & Tibet = Perlandia.

* In the desert of Gobi, there are still temples, machines and scientific
equipment from the Atlanteans, we are not allowed to use them, and there for
they are being guarded by diffirent beings.


So that concludes part two. Part Three on the decadence and destruction of
Atlantis will follow shortly.

Lucille.
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Every race lives through 4 ages, like the seasons;

1. The Golden Age of Atlantis:

Any golden age is like spring, caracterised by purity, no evil between men.
It is like the times of Eden, no ego and no psychological defects.

Physically the Atlanteans were very diffirent than what we, the Arean race,
look like. The air in the Atlantean times were much more aqueous. The
conquered the element water.

During the milleniums their bodies went through changes as the air became
more dry. At first the Atlanteans were a very tall people, but as they
adapted themselves to the changes in their environment, they became shorter.

They then started to develop intellect, and with this development they
entered the silver age.

2. The Silver age of Atlantis:

Any silver age is like the summer time,the Atlanteans were still pure, but
with certain intellectual arguments between them, and emotional problems aas
symptoms of a decrease in purity. 800 000 years ago the first great
catastrophy happened in Atlantis - new geological placements of earth.

3. The Copper age of Atlantis:

The above mentioned catastrophy marked the entering into the copper or
bronze age. The Atlanteans started creating frontiers, divisions, pride
started growing, vanity, they started using the esoteric sciences in a
negative and degenerated way. 200 000 years ago a second catastrophy
occured. This was a dramatic change of the whole geography. There were
Kumaras or Cherubs (beings of a great level of consciousness) in Atlantis
who tried to stop the degeneration of the Atlantean race, but this could not
be avoided.

4.  Iron Age of Atlantis:

This was an age in Atlantis with the following caracteristics:
Wars, developed science, the building of atomic bombs, idoltary, sexomania,
cannibalism, the law of the long life changed into the law of the short
life, a disrespect of the gods due to their pride, the building of kingdoms,
slavery, the creation of robots with a certain level of consciousness ->
this was at first very useful, but then they started using it for negative
purposes.

The Atlanteans knew all the magic of the elements,and had alot of knowledge
of atomic particles and they did alot of experimenting with this. They
started creating animals, eg: Harpias (birds of bad luck, used for evil
doings), Gargoiles, rats, donkeys and the Yeti.

The Atlanteans practised a science called "Opothrapy", which is
ultraphysical endocrynology, and they learnt how to use these fluids. These
glandular fluids helped Queen Jesebel to retain her beauty and youth for
thousands of years. She took these life fluids from young boys and girls and
used it on herself and threw the corpses to the starving masses ->
cannibalism.

There was an enormous growth of technology. They used to decompose the
sunlight and use it as energy. They were extremely intelligent, but very
proud.

They knew how to do transplants of all the organs including the brain.

The capital of the Atlanteans were Troyan, known as the city of the seven
golden gates.

The atlanteans degenerated themselves completely. When the star of Baal
fell, it destroyed all of humanity and caused the verticalization of the
axis of the earth.  Survivors of this catastrophy became the Neanderthals.
Before this last and greatest catastrophy, Great beings came to help the
Atlanteans, to try and warn them of what was coming should their
degeneration continue. But as we know they did not listen, and while the
profits were speaking their warnings the disaster struck, great waves
(tsunamis), earth quakes etc. A complete and chaotic destruction occured.

There were selected groups of people in every continent, pairs (male and
female), that were saved in order to start the new race. The atlantean race
were ruled by Neptune. Our race, the Arean race, followed the destruction of
the Atlanteans and our race is ruled by Aries (mars).
We are currently in our iron age, following the exact same path as did the
Atlanteans, through our degeneration: sexomania, pride, wrath, cloning and
terrible growth of technology, we are going to meet the same end. Again a
selected few will be saved and kept in safe and hidden places, to be the
forefathers of the new race that will follow us. These selected few will
have to be holy and pure, to fit into the Golden age of the new race, which
will be called: "Khoradhi".

We may learn from the history of the Atlanteans, but I fear the we will not.
Great is the urgency for us to become pure and completely solarized, that we
may be saved and not be destroyed.


The end.
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I just posted this to another Gnostic list. It is short, simple and
pretty much sums up my opinion about Christianity and Gnosticism in
all their forms:

The basic difference between Christianity and Gnosticism is this.

Christianity says: "You must have faith in what we tell you is true
(Suspend reason and believe church doctrine no matter what.)

Gnosticism says "Above all, to your own self be true."

George

John wrote:
.
> Were you aware they had found mummies in the Gobi? Mummies of a Caucasian
Race
> That wove Tartan (Not dissimilar to the tartan in say Scotland and
Ireland)
> Interesting eh? Buried in the Gobi they were Freeze dried. Some have
yellow
> and red Hair still Visible. In theory prior to this time the 1st Caucasian
to
> make a record of his journey into the desert was Marco Polo.

I remember when this all started to come out.  One of the theories is that
these remains are of an ancient "outpost" army that existed to keep Asiatics
(particularly Chinese) out of the Mediterranian world.  The evidence that it
goes back that far is weird but quite real.  The Egyptians and Greeks in
particular wanted to keep the East boxed out of the West since way back; it
implies that the centralized Asians were seen as a threat long ago.

(No kidding.  "Yellow Peril" is not a modern construction.  The accounts the
Greeks wrote about Persia or the loathing Egyptians felt for the Hyksos
sounds as bad as any WWII Hollywood propaganda about the evil "Japs".)

For instance, the Finnish language is related in several ways to... Korean.
Possibly, the Finns are the remnants of a European army that migrated west
(or was expelled) many centuries ago.  It would mean that a sort of
East-West struggle has been going on in the Eurasian landmass since before
modern record-keeping began.

I think it was the Reader's Digest (Of all people!) who ran a story about
the possible remnants of Alexander the Great's army out near Turkistan, by
the Hunza valley.  It's the tip of the iceburg of anomilies of east/west
migrations.  But nobody wrote a history about these anomalies that makes any
sense, so we can only conclude that there's a whole lot of people showing up
in places thousands of miles and centuries before they were supposed to be
there.

It's something to keep in mind when we try to figure out what religious idea
came from where.  There was a lot more going back & forth than previously
supposed; ideas came with trade caravans, armies, even entire migrations of
tribes.  Maybe Confucius got HIS ideas from a passing Finn.

Frank