Ken,

yes.
In energie all beings are "equal".
In order to perceive this, a human being has to loose his identification to
frozen energy, to any kind of form.

By observing, all stays inside the idea of objects and forms.
Observing, objectivity, object.

In energy all is in flow, so is subjective.

aham
I am living by the moment,
waking my future
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Bandera Ken
   To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:30 AM
   Subject: Re: [GnosticThought] The rope of time 11





   From: philo <townley7@...>

   > At 04:31 PM 8/23/2010 +0200, Aham wrote:
   >
   > <snip>
   >>The universal being can be found only while living in love, inside a human
   >body.
   >
   > Such... is thought of Human-chauvinist.
   >
   > itso,
   > philo
   IMO, the universal being equals energy which is in everything.
   Ken

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Science?



For some time I read in the newspaper that scientists proved that when a baby
does cry, this is happening because this baby does feel pain. The absurdity that
science had to prove this, made me laugh out loud.



At the same time I became aware of how senseless science can be, when they stay
present as an observer.



It took those scientists much time to prove this.

The perceiving mother and father does know this immediately.

My scepticism to the science of observers did not got minimised by this article.



aham

I am living by the moment,
waking my future

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: aham <aham@...>
> Ken,



>
> My whole interest is in being present inside the centre of now.
> The now is the meeting place of the past and the future.
> By disappearing of the past, the future gets .........open, unknown.
>
> aham
Hi Aham,
I'll be there soon enough when this body dies. For now I have stepped back from
the abyss and am living every moment as a human.


Ken







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Richard Litchfield <r.litchfield@...>



> Yes, there is, dogs in my experience.
> From: Richard Litchfield <r.litchfield@...>
>
>> Precisely. The tantric methods he offers teach that you can gain
enlightenment in three years, three months and three days if followed correctly,
yet he has been peddling this bilge for twenty years now, and though he has
>> amassed a chateau in France, etc etc, no one is any further froward! LOL.
Hellloooo! Anyone smell coffee yet? Thought not. They all put it down to their
lack of faith. My posterior!
>
> I sometimes wonder if there is any intelligent life on Earth.
>
> Ken


I have both cats and dogs. I vote for cats.


Ken







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: aham <aham@...>



> Ken.
>
> it is the perceiver, receiving a thought.
> So you do decide whether I am preaching.
> I do not have the intend to do so.
>
> aham
I am not receiving your thoughts. I am reading your words. Please try to adjust
your words to make it clear what you say is your opinion.


Ken







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Human speech is like a cracked kettle on which we tap crude rhythms for bears
to dance to, while longing to make music that will melt the stars."

Gustave Flaubert

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Bandera Ken
   To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:19 PM
   Subject: Re: [GnosticThought] The rope of time





   From: aham <aham@...>

   > Ken.
   >
   > it is the perceiver, receiving a thought.
   > So you do decide whether I am preaching.
   > I do not have the intend to do so.
   >
   > aham
   I am not receiving your thoughts. I am reading your words. Please try to
adjust your words to make it clear what you say is your opinion.

   Ken

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

No, I had cat friends, didn't live with me, and one bonded with me from early
kittenhood. We loved each other desperately! Then he got poisoned and took a
week to go. I vowed I'd never put myself through that again....
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Bandera Ken
   To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 1:17 PM
   Subject: Re: Faith Re: [GnosticThought] A bit about me





   From: Richard Litchfield <r.litchfield@...>

   > Yes, there is, dogs in my experience.
   > From: Richard Litchfield <r.litchfield@...>
   >
   >> Precisely. The tantric methods he offers teach that you can gain
enlightenment in three years, three months and three days if followed correctly,
yet he has been peddling this bilge for twenty years now, and though he has
   >> amassed a chateau in France, etc etc, no one is any further froward! LOL.
Hellloooo! Anyone smell coffee yet? Thought not. They all put it down to their
lack of faith. My posterior!
   >
   > I sometimes wonder if there is any intelligent life on Earth.
   >
   > Ken

   I have both cats and dogs. I vote for cats.

   Ken

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Litchfield" <r.litchfield@...>
wrote:
>
> No, I had cat friends, didn't live with me, and one bonded with me from early
kittenhood. We loved each other desperately! Then he got poisoned and took a
week to go. I vowed I'd never put myself through that again....
>

Just because you don't want to be friends with cats doesn't mean dogs are
smarter than cats.

Ken

--- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "aham" <aham@...> wrote:
>
> Philo,
>
> donīt you like to be human?
>
> aham

You are the one who keeps saying he doesn't want to be human.

Ken

--- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "aham" <aham@...> wrote:
>
> Philo,
>
> without a body and without a brain you are not able to think and to feel.
>

The universe is my real body. There never was, never is, and never will be a
time when I am without a body.

IMO.

Ken

Ken,

I do the same.

aham
I am living by the moment,
waking my future
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Bandera Ken
   To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:12 PM
   Subject: Re: [GnosticThought] Where is the budding mystic supposed to go?





   From: aham <aham@...>
   > Ken,

   >
   > My whole interest is in being present inside the centre of now.
   > The now is the meeting place of the past and the future.
   > By disappearing of the past, the future gets .........open, unknown.
   >
   > aham
   Hi Aham,
   I'll be there soon enough when this body dies. For now I have stepped back
from the abyss and am living every moment as a human.

   Ken

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Very good point.  This observation that you mention proves that the heart
knows more than the head... : )

I'm new to this group.  Like what I've read so far, and I will do a better
intro soon.

Kathleen

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 3:30 AM, aham <aham@...> wrote:

>
>
> Science?
>
> For some time I read in the newspaper that scientists proved that when a
> baby does cry, this is happening because this baby does feel pain. The
> absurdity that science had to prove this, made me laugh out loud.
>
> At the same time I became aware of how senseless science can be, when they
> stay present as an observer.
>
> It took those scientists much time to prove this.
>
> The perceiving mother and father does know this immediately.
>
> My scepticism to the science of observers did not got minimised by this
> article.
>
> aham
>
> I am living by the moment,
> waking my future
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kathleen,

yes.

aham
I am living by the moment,
waking my future
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Kahabo
   To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 5:01 PM
   Subject: Re: [GnosticThought] Science?



   Very good point. This observation that you mention proves that the heart
   knows more than the head... : )

   I'm new to this group. Like what I've read so far, and I will do a better
   intro soon.

   Kathleen

   On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 3:30 AM, aham <aham@...> wrote:

   >
   >
   > Science?
   >
   > For some time I read in the newspaper that scientists proved that when a
   > baby does cry, this is happening because this baby does feel pain. The
   > absurdity that science had to prove this, made me laugh out loud.
   >
   > At the same time I became aware of how senseless science can be, when they
   > stay present as an observer.
   >
   > It took those scientists much time to prove this.
   >
   > The perceiving mother and father does know this immediately.
   >
   > My scepticism to the science of observers did not got minimised by this
   > article.
   >
   > aham
   >
   > I am living by the moment,
   > waking my future
   >
   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >
   >
   >

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Didn't say that. I meant that cats are more independent, need to go off on their
own, and that they come back sometimes poisoned, or shot (great people, humans, 
eh?), or sometimes, like Tyson, another cat favorite of mine, they never come
back.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: gnostic_ken
   To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:51 PM
   Subject: Faith Re: [GnosticThought] A bit about me





   --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Litchfield" <r.litchfield@...>
wrote:
   >
   > No, I had cat friends, didn't live with me, and one bonded with me from
early kittenhood. We loved each other desperately! Then he got poisoned and took
a week to go. I vowed I'd never put myself through that again....
   >

   Just because you don't want to be friends with cats doesn't mean dogs are
smarter than cats.

   Ken





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Litchfield" <r.litchfield@...>
wrote:
>
> Didn't say that. I meant that cats are more independent, need to go off on
their own, and that they come back sometimes poisoned, or shot (great people,
humans,  eh?), or sometimes, like Tyson, another cat favorite of mine, they
never come back.
>

Apparently a misunderstanding. I asked if there are any intelligent lifeforms on
Earth. You said dogs. I said I vote for cats meaning I think cats are more
intelligent than dogs.

Ken

--- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "aham" <aham@...> wrote:
>
> Ken,
>
> I do the same.
>
> aham
> I am living by the moment,
> waking my future
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Bandera Ken
>   To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 2:12 PM
>   Subject: Re: [GnosticThought] Where is the budding mystic supposed to go?
>
>
>
>
>
>   From: aham <aham@...>
>   > Ken,
>
>   >
>   > My whole interest is in being present inside the centre of now.
>   > The now is the meeting place of the past and the future.
>   > By disappearing of the past, the future gets .........open, unknown.
>   >
>   > aham
>   Hi Aham,
>   I'll be there soon enough when this body dies. For now I have stepped back
from the abyss and am living every moment as a human.
>
>   Ken

Maybe I misunderstood. Don't you keep going on about wanting to live fully
aware?

Ken

--- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "brian" <humbleservant1god@...> wrote:
>
> hi ken, is it possible you use a different word other than faith?

I use faith to mean one thing. The common meaning that the Christian priests and
preachers use when they tell you to have faith in their church, their dogma,
their god, their bible and themselves. It means suspend all reason, all logic,
all disbelief, all thinking ability and believe this no matter what.

If a person wants to mean something else then my opinion is in order to avoid
confusion a person should use a different word or words.

"Reasonable belief" is a good choice IMO.

Ken

--- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "aham" <aham@...> wrote:
>
> Ken,
>
> I now speak out of my experiences and by the experiences in working/relating
with humans:
> as far I do understand you were on an astral journey, looking for answers.
> The answers present inside outer space (OBE) are within the light you were.
>

Yeah. Some experience it and call it the astral plane. Some experience it and
call it Heaven. Likely both names are wrong. Whatever.

Ken

--- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "aham" <aham@...> wrote:
>
> Ken,
>
> I now speak out of my experiences and by the experiences in working/relating
with humans:
> as far I do understand you were on an astral journey, looking for answers.
> The answers present inside outer space (OBE) are within the light you were.
> Light is the answer.
> Darkness is the quest.
>
> My experiences are just the opposite:
> I went into the inner void, of not knowing and the light came inside of me,
now nourishing my with the answers/light I do need for the next moment. I had to
pass an inner limit of a totally NO. I had the indea I had to die, but in fact
this NO died.
>
> aham

You ignored where I said
"First I'll describe another series of experiences."

Ken

--- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, Gnostic Tom <gnostictom@...> wrote:
>
>   On 8/24/2010 11:35 PM, brian wrote:
> > to me, faith is the ability to believe in something so much that you can
make it real.
> this to me is "magic" and not "faith",
> where you raise a cone and summon,
> not beg on your needs to some god on a cloud up there
>
> the power of resolve, of ambition, of planning,
> aligns forces together, synchronizes events,
> gives you intuition as to how to pull it off,
> but this is not "faith" in the Christian sense
>
> tom

I think that is what Hitler called triumph of the will. It is single minded
determination. I do think Hitler had intuition. Not always a good thing as
Hitler proved.

IMO.

Ken

--- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "aham" <aham@...> wrote:
>
> Symbiotic relationships
>
>
>
> In every one of us there exists deep down inside a longing to the
> final unity. We are looking for a unity which can not be separated
> anymore.

How do you know what is in every one of us?

Ken

--- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <sutton167@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, Bandera Ken <bandera_ken@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > God did not create the universe, says Hawking
> > http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_britain_hawking
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> My theory on the big bang is that god is the big bang.  The supreme god that
is.  The Gnostic text of Pistis-Sophia explains this really well, allegorically
speaking.  I also liken the Gnostic "spark" to that of cosmic dust from the big
bang which condensed and came together to create our sun and planet Earth. as
well as other solar systems in the universe
>

Hi Matt,
Exactly. The story of the Creation in Genesis follows almost exactly the Big
Bang and then Evolution on Earth with only a couple of things out of order if
one understands this was explained by someone who had no scientific knowledge
whatsoever.

Even back when I was a fundie Christian I could see no conflict between the
story in Genesis and science.

Ken

Yeah, I was talking about my own experience. Don't have a lot with cats. Also,
with cats, you get those sad little offerings so often, dead birds, which I
don't like, either.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: ken5906
   To: GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 6:51 PM
   Subject: Faith Re: [GnosticThought] A bit about me





   --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Litchfield" <r.litchfield@...>
wrote:
   >
   > Didn't say that. I meant that cats are more independent, need to go off on
their own, and that they come back sometimes poisoned, or shot (great people,
humans, eh?), or sometimes, like Tyson, another cat favorite of mine, they never
come back.
   >

   Apparently a misunderstanding. I asked if there are any intelligent lifeforms
on Earth. You said dogs. I said I vote for cats meaning I think cats are more
intelligent than dogs.

   Ken





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm posting a link to the Amazon listing for the journal in case anyone is
interested. I've been perusing the preview and think it's very interesting.


Brenda


http://www.amazon.com/Journal-Contemporary-Heathen-Thought/dp/1452883718/ref=sr_\
1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279043542&sr=8-1#reader_1452883718

Thank you Brenda.

I just looked at and added it to my cart.

Ken

--- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "bhuzes" <brenda@...> wrote:
>
> I'm posting a link to the Amazon listing for the journal in case anyone is
interested. I've been perusing the preview and think it's very interesting.
>
>
> Brenda
>
>
>
http://www.amazon.com/Journal-Contemporary-Heathen-Thought/dp/1452883718/ref=sr_\
1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279043542&sr=8-1#reader_1452883718
>

Using Symbolism, here is my take on human transformation
(note: see The Gospel of Thomas saying 22)
I also uploaded this file to our yahoo group

http://picasion.com/show/13941982/ <http://picasion.com/show/13941982/>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "ken5906" <bandera_ken@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, "Matt" <sutton167@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In GnosticThought@yahoogroups.com, Bandera Ken <bandera_ken@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > God did not create the universe, says Hawking
> > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_britain_hawking
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > My theory on the big bang is that god is the big bang.  The supreme god that
is.  The Gnostic text of Pistis-Sophia explains this really well, allegorically
speaking.  I also liken the Gnostic "spark" to that of cosmic dust from the big
bang which condensed and came together to create our sun and planet Earth. as
well as other solar systems in the universe
> >
>
> Hi Matt,
> Exactly. The story of the Creation in Genesis follows almost exactly the Big
Bang and then Evolution on Earth with only a couple of things out of order if
one understands this was explained by someone who had no scientific knowledge
whatsoever.
>
> Even back when I was a fundie Christian I could see no conflict between the
story in Genesis and science.
>
> Ken
>
Hi Ken,
Yes! You just reminded me of a good book I just read from my local library
called The Genesis Enigma: Why the story of creation is scientifically accurate
By Andrew Parker.
If you haven't read it already I highly recommend it

M.S
Webmaster

As a mother, I was horrified when I found out that some ignoramuses that
called themselves doctors would operate on babies without anesthesia because
"Babies don't feel pain. They cry because they are away from their mothers
and are frightened." Just because a baby couldn't talk and say that they
hurt, the idiot doctors believed that they couldn't feel pain. Talk about
sick theories! These guys probably got their kicks out of pulling the wings
off from flies before they went to medical school.

Linda


"aham" aham@... wrote:

>
> Science?
>
> For some time I read in the newspaper that scientists proved that when a
> baby does cry, this is happening because this baby does feel pain. The
> absurdity that science had to prove this, made me laugh out loud.
>
> At the same time I became aware of how senseless science can be, when they
> stay present as an observer.
>
> It took those scientists much time to prove this.
>
> The perceiving mother and father does know this immediately.
>
> My scepticism to the science of observers did not got minimised by this
> article.
>
> aham
>
> I am living by the moment,
> waking my future
>

"Bandera Ken" bandera_ken@... wrote:
>
> > I sometimes wonder if there is any intelligent life on Earth.
> >
> > Ken


> I have both cats and dogs. I vote for cats.
>
> Ken



So do I. I've had both up through the years and, while dogs can be trained
by humans, humans are trained by cats.

Linda

"ken5906" bandera_ken@...

> Hi Matt,
Exactly. The story of the Creation in Genesis follows almost exactly the Big
Bang and then Evolution on Earth with only a couple of things out of order
if one understands this was explained by someone who had no scientific
knowledge whatsoever.

> Even back when I was a fundie Christian I could see no conflict between
> the story in Genesis and science.

> Ken



I have never figured out why there hasn't been a compromise by seeing
evolution as the tool of God to bring about the world we have now, and using
evolution in order to keep species going through environmental changes such
as ice-ages, desertification, etc. It can make sense for both sides.

Now consider the Genesis account. Although I don't take it literally, I can
see how evolution could fit in with it through seven great periods, each
lasting thousands if not millions of years, "days" merely being a symbolic
term. But saying that it was all created in seven literal days is absurd. If
God is eternal, what was his hurry? Keeping in mind that this was originally
an ancient oral account which was only written down maybe at the most three
thousand years ago, the original version of this could have been much
different, having been garbled over the centuries in the telling. The
original may have actually been closer to the evolutionary form than it is
now.

Consider Genesis 1:11 and 12, for example. Here we find grass, herbs and
fruit trees coming forth before there was a sun, moon and stars in verses 14
to 18. This may well have been confused in the telling, so that verses 14 to
18 may belong just after verse 1or 2, and then would come the creation of
day and night (now verses 4 and 5), after which the dry land appears (now
verse 10), then life in the waters (verses 20 to 22), then life appearing on
the earth and so on. Otherwise, it is no wonder that scientists discount the
Genesis creation account.

The following makes a little more sense, though it's hardly complete. I use
the term God, though Divine Conscious Intelligence would be closer to what
It is. --

0. (Introductory verse.) God is the spiritual source of the first impulse
which, in the void, brings forth the unformed universe. He brought this
forth from himself, for there was nothing else from which it could come. All
there is comes from God and is of God's substance.

1. Out of the swirling chaos of the unformed universe, God brought together
the elements out of which were formed stars, planets and moons. Among these
was the Sun and its planets, including the earth.

2. Upon the earth the light of the Sun did shine and the earth spun,
becoming the day and the night, and time was born. The firmament
(atmosphere) formed about the earth, dividing the earth from the outer
cosmos.

3. From the earth, waters came forth and the dry land did appear through
upheavals from within the earth, and so the dry land was divided from the
sea.

4. God breathed his life force upon the waters and within the waters did
life come forth, and this life reproduced, changing as time went on until
there were plants in the waters, and some of them were thrown upon the dry
land by the tides where they took root and changed as they adapted to the
dry land. Mosses, grass and herbs came forth, until finally came forth trees
of all kinds.

5. God breathed again his life force upon the waters and within the waters
did moving creatures develop and reproduce as male and female, and they also
changed over time until they, too, moved onto the dry land and continued to
change until they could flourish away from the waters.

6. Upon the dry land, the creatures moved and reproduced, changing as the
earth changed and as they moved, some growing more intelligent through
experience and necessity. Among these creatures, was one which was more
intelligent than the others, having become so to compensate for its weakness
in senses and slowness of its gait. This creature was mankind. Mankind's
intelligence made it possible to create things that other creatures could
not, so that mankind was able to harness fire to his own use and to till the
earth to grow his own food. Mankind built homes for himself and clothed
himself so that he could spread over the face of the earth and survive
wherever he willed to be. Mankind became aware of God and wanted to know
more about him. And God gave mankind psychic gifts for his spiritual
evolution by which he could hear the voice of God and understand God's
works.

7. And God was pleased that what he had brought forth from himself in the
beginning had evolved into such wonder and complexity. And God knew that the
universe would continue to change as long as it existed, for allowing such
change was his way of perfecting the universe.

Linda