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  • Category: Theology
  • Founded: Nov 4, 2002
  • Language: English
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#1 From: "stefanvpavlenko" <StefanVPavlenko@...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 12:09 am
Subject: lets get started
stefanvpavlenko
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Dear owner, moderator and members,

May the Lord Our God and Savior, Jesus Christ, by the prayers and
intersession of The Lady Theotokos and Ever Virgin Mary guide us to
the knowledge of truth concerning the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic
Church in which is treasured all we need for our salvation.

Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko

#2 From: Mary Lanser <mel5@...>
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 3:27 am
Subject: Re: lets get started
anarch16803
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At 12:09 AM 11/05/2002 +0000, stefanvpavlenko wrote:
>Dear owner, moderator and members,
>
>May the Lord Our God and Savior, Jesus Christ, by the prayers and
>intersession of The Lady Theotokos and Ever Virgin Mary guide us to
>the knowledge of truth concerning the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic
>Church in which is treasured all we need for our salvation.
>
>Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko

Thank you Father Stefan, Welcome! and bless...

Blessings are indeed the best way to begin.

As I mentioned in my note to you earlier, this is the birthing and baptism
of Irenikon and so your opening is most welcome and appropriate.

I will be working out a few kinks over the next day or so, in terms of
presentation and letting people know how to contact "the management",
etc.  With the prayers and patience of the members, all nine of us and
growing, and a little care on my part, I won't blow the thing up too badly.

Christ's peace to all and good night...or morning, depending on where you
are...

Mary Lanser
Owner and member...oh yes, and sinner

#3 From: RSantos%GENMIL@...
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 2:34 pm
Subject: Peter Faber
RSantos%GENMIL@...
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I'd like to offer this reflection to this new e-group (Irenikon):

Peter Faber's name is not often heard in connection with the ecumenical
movement. Yet his words written in the 16th century are quoted verbatim in
ecumenical documents today. His 8 point letter to Lainez is the only
solution to the disunity in the church today.

We live in an age similar to Peter's age. We have pagans both outside and
inside the church; we have "separated bretheren' both outside and inside
the church; and we have heretics bot outside and inside the church. Let us
now see Blessed Peter Faber's solution to such a chaotic state.

We must be holy, because only personal holiness can save and attract
others. On the 8 points that Peter presented to Lainez the first step
towards a sound ecumenism is personal holiness. This is the foundation of
the rest of his advices.

To win our separated brothers, we must regard them with love...in deed and
in truth and banish from our souls any thought that might lessen our love
and esteem for them. It is necessary to win their good will. We must not
look down on them, lord over them, judge or condemn them. And this can be
done only by a saint. Without holiness we will be arrogant lover of
discussions and argumentations, more concerned for our reputation, status
and dignity and too ready to condemn.

Only saints can inspire an ecumenical movement because ecumenism means
reconciling others, NOT to us, BUT TO GOD. And only a man of God can
accomplish that.

Peter was at the center of the reformation and counter-reformation but
Peter knew that reform must start in Peter's soul. This was in contrast
with the clergy of his time who reformed everybody else except themselves.

After reforming ourselves, let us reform our own church, the Catholic
Church. Peter worked intensely for "his conversion". Then, against popular
belief, though he was in the midst of the protestant revolt, he worked
first and mostly on the Catholic Church, which at that time was in very bad
shape.

So Peter worked on the Dominican and Franciscan novices while Ignatius of
Loyola worked on the Benedictine nuns. Peter worked on the Bishops and the
clergy and on their low level of faith and morals. He believed that holy
Bishops meant holy priests, holy priests meant holy people.

The laity were in no better shape. They condoned the laxity of the clergy
and used it to excuse their own lapses.

Defection in the church begins in the heart, not in the mind; in the will,
not in the intellect. Renewal, thus, must begin in the will, not in the
mind. Renewal is not in dogma - for all is well there; renewal must be int
the moral lives of the people. So to renew the Catholic Church we don't
present theological arguments to the mind; we present holy lives to the
will.

No one listened to Peter.

Having reformed ourselves and our church we may now approach our separated
bretheren. And our approach, Pope John XXIII declared in 1960 using the
words of Peter, must be "stress what brings men together, not that which
divides them."

There is one very strong thing that, not only can bring all christians
together, but can bind us into one - the desire for salvation. We all agree
that the way to salvation is by following Christ.  There are those who
believe in the infallibility of the Pope, the divinity of Christ, etc. but
who are lost to eternal perdition. On the other hand all who follow
Christ's example of humility and meekness are with Christ. Let us,
therefore, discuss how to be humble and meek. If we are all humble there
will be no need of further theological disputes.

Peter enumerates three reasons why christians easily fall into heresy. The
first is a bad life. The source of error of doctrine is a life of vice and
sin. Remove the vice and the error of doctrine will vanish. Peter mentions
about a priest who held some doctrinal errors. Instead of refuting his
errors, Peter merely encouraged him to abandon his lustful life and the
errors were never mentioned again.

The second reason is discouragement. Many christians find themselves
unwilling or physically weak to obey the commands of Christ and suffer like
Christ. The lives of the Apostles, the Fathers, and the saints seem to be
beyond their reach. We must show them, therefore, by our example that the
commands of Christ can be kept because God helps; thus they will recover
their former hope and confidence.

The third is loss of love of prayer. Peter held that "it is the loss of
love of unceasing prayer that cause many to lose the faith." To be
effective, unceasing prayer must be accompanied by an ordered life, ie, a
life of virtue, continual consciousness of death and judgement, avoidance
of evil. Inspiring them to this way of life by example does more good than
the sheer weight of theological arguments. Peter unceasingly prayed for
"his conversion", for the Catholic Church, for the heads of flaundering
states, for the Pope, for Luther, for Melanchton.

Peter's letter ends saying: "I have exhausted my ideas on the subject."
Truly a humble confession since there was nothing else to add to it. He
described the treatment of Luther by the clergy as "harsh". Peter took a
gloomy reunion because the church had nothing to offer the defecting
christians. He died on his way to the Council of Trent.

Peter was no less a saint because no one listened to him. But the church
was less holy because it did not listen to him. Pope John XXIII and Pope
John Paul II had sounded exactly the same message but no one is still
listening. But to those who would listen let's imitate Peter's example - by
living a holy and quiet life, always gentle and humble...

ad majorem Dei gloriam

#4 From: "kcw" <kcw7@...>
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 3:13 pm
Subject: Quote for the day (11-6-02)
thrak77
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From St. Symeon the New Theologian (The Discourses: XIX no. 1, Paulist Press
pg. 226):

     "It often happens that a person suddenly achieves in action something
that he has not promised in words, while he has agreed to something by an
oath, but when the time comes he changes his mind and completely refuses to
do it... Accordingly, to put one's trust in mere words and base oneself on
them as if they were solid facts is fitting only in the case of God's words
and the promises He has made us. He alone is unchangeable and never has He
been found in utter falsehood. But in the case of unstable men, who turn and
stray in all directions, he who leans on nothing but their words leans only
on wind and enjoys vain dreams."

In His Name,
Keith C. Wilkerson

http://home.earthlink.net/~kcw7/index.html

#5 From: "kcw" <kcw7@...>
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 12:01 pm
Subject: Quote for the day (11-7-02)
thrak77
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From St. Makarios of Egypt (The Homilies I: Spiritual Perfection no. 15, The
Philokalia Vol. 3 edited by Palmer, Sherrard and Ware; Faber and Faber pg
290):

     "...the first and highest elements of our constitution - the intellect,
the conscience, the loving power of the soul - must initially be offered to
God as a holy sacrifice. The firstfruits and the highest of our true
thoughts must be continually devoted to remembrance of Him, engrossed in His
love and in unutterable and boundless longing for Him. In this way we can
grow and move forward day by day, assisted by divine grace. Then the burden
of fulfilling the commandments will appear light to us."

In His Name,
Keith C. Wilkerson

http://home.earthlink.net/~kcw7/index.html

#6 From: RSantos%GENMIL@...
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 12:37 pm
Subject: St. Maximus the Confessor on the Filioque
RSantos%GENMIL@...
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St Maximus the Confessor on the "filioque"


           "Those of the Queen of cities (Constantinople) have attacked the
           synodal letter of the present very holy Pope, not in the case of
           all the chapters that he has written in it, but only in the case
           of two of them. One relates to the theology (of the Trinity) and
           according to this, says 'the Holy Spirit also has his ekporeusis
           from the Son.'


           The other deals with the divine incarnation. With regard to the
           first matter, they (the Romans) have produced the unanimous
           evidence of the Latin Fathers, and also of Cyril of Alexandria,
           from the study he made of the gospel of St. John. On the basis of
           these texts, they have shown that they have not made the Son the
           cause of the Spirit--they know in fact that the Father is the
           only cause of the Son and the Spirit, the one by begetting and
           the other by procession--but that they have manifested the
           procession through him and have thus shown the unity and identity
           of the essence.


           They (the Romans) have therefore been accused of precisely those
           things of which it would be wrong to accuse them, whereas the
           former (the Byzantines) have been accused of those things it has
           been quite correct to accuse them (Monothelitism).


           In accordance with your request I have asked the Romans to
           translate what is peculiar to them (the 'also from the Son') in
           such a way that any obscurities that may result from it will be
           avoided. But since the practice of writing and sending (the
           synodal letters) has been observed, I wonder whether they will
           possibly agree to doing this. It is true, of course, that they
           cannot reproduce their idea in a language and in words that are
           foreign to them as they can in their mother-tongue, just as we
           too cannot do."


                      St. Maximus, Letter to Marinus, PG 91, 136.

#7 From: Mary Lanser <mel5@...>
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 2:03 pm
Subject: Re: St. Maximus the Confessor on the Filioque
anarch16803
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At 04:37 AM 11/08/2002 -0800, RSantos%GENMIL@... wrote:
>St Maximus the Confessor on the "filioque"

Morning Ruel,

I know that I am holding things up a bit by sitting back quietly and
watching the list grow.  That might be  frustrating to some who are all
ready to go with discussion, but patience, as you know, attains all
things.  I appreciate your efforts to jump start a conversation but I have
a feeling that posting long quotes without commentary is going to be the
last thing that works to that end.

In fact posting extensive passages from any source is really just about as
deadly to conversation in virtual communities, as simply posting a news
article without extended commentary.  You know, just putting, "Here it is."
at the top is not extended commentary.  You do have a tendency to do that
and I knew when I saw you sign in that I was eventually going to suggest to
you that you not do just that here.

   There are other things we can do eventually, such as set up a library of
links to documents so that there is no need to cut and past anything but
the small portion of the text to which you would like to draw someone's
attention.  So I am requesting that, for the time being, you live without
the satisfaction of watching pages and pages of already published text roll
effortlessly out from beneath your fingers as you press the SEND button.

Besides and, equally importantly, we are here to talk TO one another,
rather than AT one another.  The better thing might be for you to introduce
yourself and allow people to begin to get to know you as a person.

I think that should suffice for my commentary the moment.  Give it some
thought.

Christ's peace to you all...mary

#8 From: "rmichaelzachary1" <rmichaelzachary1@...>
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 11:29 pm
Subject: Frank Schaeffer: Diversity In Unity
rmichaelzach...
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Diversity in Unity

by Frank Schaefer

----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------

I recently lectured at an Antiochian mission parish in Southern
California, St. Andrew's Orthodox Church in Riverside, which was
established by a convert priest, Fr. Paul Finley, less than six years
ago. The congregation is as American as apple pie and as Orthodox as
Mount Athos.

St. Andrew's is one of many new Orthodox communities in the United
States and is a good example of a general trend. It's typical of
mission parishes in that it was begun by a convert priest yet now has
a congregation that is a mixture of ethnic Arab and Greek "cradle
Orthodox" as well as converts. This mixture is a seamless and happy
one that blends into one dynamic spiritual family.

Like many mission parishes, St. Andrew's reaches out zealously to the
non-Orthodox. Missionary, evangelistic activity is not left up to the
converts or the priest but is enthusiastically undertaken by the
whole community. This has brought converts and also has attracted a
number of lapsed "cradle" Greek and Arab Orthodox back to the Church.
In this sense, part of St. Andrew's mission is the re-converting of
the lapsed Orthodox. (By using the term "re-convert" I mean only to
describe the process by which a cradle Orthodox re-discovers or
discovers for the first time the treasures of Orthodoxy.)

While at St. Andrew's leading a weekend retreat and lecture series, I
noticed that a lot of people attending were Protestants. They were
curious about Orthodoxy and most became interested through contact
with parishioners. One group in particular stands out as quite
remarkable. A Protestant pastor of a Four Square Bible Church and 80
members attended each of my lectures. According to this pastor, they
will all join the Orthodox Church in the near future.

What attracted these Protestants to Orthodoxy? I believe it was the
character of St. Andrew's priest, a warm welcome from the parish, and
a knowledgeable Orthodox congregation.

A new Orthodox world is emerging in the United States, one that is no
longer stereo- typed by a few ethnic identities. It is American. It
is Greek, Arab, Russian, African, Hispanic and Anglo-Saxon. It is
white, black, brown and yellow. It is eager to move beyond the
private club mentality, and the new American Orthodoxy wants to enter
into a dynamic spiritual struggle for salvation. It seems to me this
is a true manifestation of the Holy Spirit at work.

What we see in St. Andrew's and others like it is perhaps the wave of
the future. The character of the converts and re-converted cradle
Orthodox that I have found in the last six years in these convert
mission communities can be described as follows:

1. They adhere strictly to Orthodox Holy Tradition and appreciate it.

2. They have evangelistic zeal.

3. They welcome strangers.

4. They are growing spiritually and physically.

5. They are informed about the Orthodox faith.

6. They are unashamed of Orthodoxy and willing to be Orthodox first
and American second.

7. Every aspect of the life of the Church is important, including
fasting, confession, the Church calendar and church social events,
including ethnic events.

8. Parishioners donate generously.

9. They are rarely interested by modern innovations, such as shorter
services or politically correct new translations of the ancient
liturgies.

10. There is real gratitude for the Orthodox faith- it is not taken
for granted.

11. Convert communities retain their young people, who are taught by
example that the Church is the center of life.

12. They respect their priests and bishops as true spiritual Fathers
and of being accountable to them.

There is evidence that - perhaps ironically - convert and mission
communities are doing a great deal to return backslidden cradle
Orthodox to the Church. Perhaps the zeal for the Orthodox faith shown
by the converts is contagious. An Orthodox community that evangelizes
the non-Orthodox has a better chance of hanging on to its own people.
This may be the key to bringing back Orthodox who have left. The
diversity of the new American Orthodoxy may well prove to be its
greatest asset.

This article first appeared in the Adbook for the 1996 Midwest Region
Parish Life Conference hosted by St. Elias Orthodox Church in
Sylvania, OH.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------

#9 From: "rmichaelzachary1" <rmichaelzachary1@...>
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 11:32 pm
Subject: Alexei Khomiakov: The Church Is One
rmichaelzach...
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The Church is One



by Alexei Khomiakov, 1804--1860



Content:

Unity of the Church. The Visible and Invisible Church. The Church on
Earth One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic. Scripture and Tradition.
Confession, Prayer and Deeds. The Creed. The Church and Its
Mysteries. Faith and Life in Church Unity. Salvation. Unity of
Orthodoxy.




Unity of the Church





THE UNITY OF THE CHURCH follows of necessity from the unity of God;
for the Church is not a multitude of persons in their separate
individuality, but a unity of the grace of God, living in a multitude
of rational creatures, submitting themselves willingly to grace.
Grace, indeed, is also given to those who resist it, and to those who
do not make use of it (who hide their talent in the earth), but these
are not in the Church. In fact, the unity of the Church is not
imaginary or allegorical, but a true and substantial unity, such as
is the unity of many members in a living body.

The Church is one, notwithstanding her division as it appears to a
man who is still alive on earth. It is only in relation to man that
it is possible to recognize a division of the Church into visible and
invisible; her unity is, in reality, true and absolute. Those who are
alive on earth, those who have finished their earthly course, those
who, like the angels, were not created for a life on earth, those in
future generations who have not yet begun their earthly course, are
all united together in one Church, in one and the same grace of God;
for the creation of God which has not yet been manifested is manifest
to Him; and God hears the prayers and knows the faith of those whom
He has not yet called out of non-existence into existence. Indeed the
Church, the Body of Christ, is manifesting forth and fulfilling
herself in time, without changing her essential unity or inward life
of grace. And therefore, when we speak of "the Church visible and
invisible," we so speak only in relation to man.



The Visible and

Invisible Church



THE CHURCH VISIBLE, or upon earth, lives in complete communion and
unity with the whole body of the Church, of which Christ is the Head.
She has abiding within her Christ and the grace of the Holy Spirit in
all their living fullness, but not in the fullness of their
manifestation, for she acts and knows not fully, but only so far as
it pleases God.

Inasmuch as the earthly and visible Church is not the fullness and
completeness of the whole Church which the Lord has appointed to
appear at the final judgment of all creation, she acts and knows only
within her own limits; and (according to the words of Paul the
Apostle, to the Corinthians, 1 Cor. 5. 12) does not judge the rest of
mankind, and only looks upon those as excluded, that is to say, not
belonging to her, who exclude themselves. The rest of mankind,
whether alien from the Church, or united to her by ties which God has
not willed to reveal to her, she leaves to the judgment of the great
day. The Church on earth judges for herself only, according to the
grace of the Spirit, and the freedom granted her through Christ,
inviting also the rest of mankind to the unity and adoption of God in
Christ; but upon those who do not hear her appeal she pronounces no
sentence, knowing the command of her Saviour and Head, "not to judge
another man's servant" (Rom. 14. 4).



The Church on Earth



FROM THE CREATION of the world the earthly Church has continued
uninterruptedly upon the earth, and will continue until the
accomplishment of all the works of God, according to the promise
given her by God Himself. And her signs are: inward holiness, which
does not allow for any admixture of error, for the spirit of truth
and outward unchangeableness lives within her as Christ, her
Preserver and Head does not change.

All the signs of the Church, whether inward or outward, are
recognized only by herself, and by those whom grace calls to be
members of her. To those, indeed, who are alien from her, and are not
called to her, they are unintelligible; for to such as these, outward
change of rite appears to be a change of the Spirit itself, which is
glorified in the rite (as, for instance, in the transition from the
Church of the Old Testament to that of the New, or in the change of
ecclesiastical rites and ordinances since Apostolic times). The
Church and her members know, by the inward knowledge of faith, the
unity and unchangeableness of her spirit, which is the spirit of God.
But those who are outside and not called to belong to her, behold and
know the changes in the external rite by an external knowledge, which
does not comprehend the inward [knowledge], just as also the
unchangeableness of God appears to them to be changeable in the
changes of His creations.

Wherefore the Church has not been, nor could she be, changed or
obscured, nor could she have fallen away, for then she would have
been deprived of the spirit of truth. It is impossible that there
should have been a time when she could have received error into her
bosom, or when the laity, presbyters, and bishops had submitted to
instructions or teaching inconsistent with the teaching and spirit of
Christ. The man who should say that such a weakening of the spirit of
Christ could possibly come to pass within her knows nothing of the
Church, and is altogether alien to her. Moreover, a partial revolt
against false doctrines, together with the retention or acceptance of
other false doctrines, neither is, nor could be, the work of the
Church; for within her, according to her very essence, there must
always have been preachers and teachers and martyrs confessing, not
partial truth with an admixture of error, but the full and
unadulterated truth. The Church knows nothing of partial truth and
partial error, but only the whole truth without admixture of error.
And the man who is living within the Church does not submit to false
teaching or receive the Sacraments from a false teacher; he will not,
knowing him to be false, follow his false rites. And the Church
herself does not err, for she is the truth, she is incapable of
cunning or cowardice, for she is holy. And of course, the Church, by
her very unchangeableness, does not acknowledge that to be error,
which she has at any previous time acknowledged as truth; and having
proclaimed by a General Council and common consent, that it is
possible for any private individual, or any bishop or patriarch, to
err in his teaching, she cannot acknowledge that such or such private
individual, or bishop, or patriarch, or successor of theirs, is
incapable of falling into error in teaching; or that they are
preserved from going astray by any special grace. By what would the
earth be sanctified, if the Church were to lose her sanctity? And
where would there be truth, if her judgments of to-day were contrary
to those of yesterday? Within the Church, that is to say, within her
members, false doctrines may be engendered, but then the infected
members fall away, constituting a heresy or schism, and no longer
defile the sanctity of the Church.



One, Holy,

Catholic, Apostolic



THE CHURCH is called One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic; because she
is one, and holy; because she belongs to the whole world, and not to
any particular locality; because by her all mankind and all the
earth, and not any particular nation or country, are sanctified;
because her very essence consists in the agreement and unity of the
spirit and life of all the members who acknowledge her, throughout
the world; lastly, because in the writings and doctrines of the
Apostles is contained all the fullness of her faith, her hope, and
her love.

From this it follows that when any society is called the Church of
Christ, with the addition of a local name, such as the Greek,
Russian, or Syrian Church, this appellation signifies nothing more
than the congregation of members of the Church living in that
particular locality, that is, Greece, Russia, or Syria; and does not
involve any such idea as that any single community of Christians is
able to formulate the doctrine of the Church, or to give a dogmatic
interpretation to the teaching of the Church without the concurrence
therewith of the other communities; still less is it implied that any
one particular community, or the pastor thereof, can prescribe its
own interpretation to the others. The grace of faith is not to be
separated from holiness of life, nor can any single community or any
single pastor be acknowledged to be the custodian of the whole faith
of the Church, any more than any single community or any single
pastor can be looked upon as the representative of the whole of her
sanctity. Nevertheless, every Christian community, without assuming
to itself the right of dogmatic explanation or teaching, has a full
right to change its forms and ceremonies, and to introduce new ones,
so long as it does not cause offense to the other communities. Rather
than do this, it ought to abandon its own opinion, and submit to that
of the others, lest that which to one might seem harmless or even
praiseworthy should seem blameworthy to another; or that brother
should lead brother into the sin of doubt and discord. Every
Christian ought to set a high value upon unity in the rites of the
Church: for thereby is manifested, even for the unenlightened, unity
of spirit and doctrine, while for the enlightened man it becomes a
source of lively Christian joy. Love is the crown and glory of the
Church.



Scripture

and Tradition



THE SPIRIT OF GOD, who lives in the Church, ruling her and making her
wise, manifests Himself within her in divers manners; in Scripture,
in Tradition, and in Works; for the. Church, which does the works of
God, is the same Church, which preserves tradition and which has
written the Scriptures. Neither individuals, nor a multitude of
individuals within the Church, preserve tradition or write the
Scriptures; but the Spirit of God, which lives in the whole body of
the Church. Therefore it is neither right nor possible to Look for
the grounds of tradition in the Scripture, nor for the proof of
Scripture in tradition, nor for the warrant of Scripture or tradition
in works. To a man living outside the Church neither her scripture
nor her tradition nor her works are comprehensible. But to the man
who lives within the Church and is united to the spirit of the
Church, their unity is manifest by the grace which lives within her.

Do not works precede Scripture and tradition? Does not tradition
precede Scripture? Were not the works of Noah, Abraham, the
forefathers and representatives of the Church of the Old Testament,
pleasing to God? And did not tradition exist amongst the patriarchs,
beginning with Adam, the forefathers of all? Did not Christ give
liberty to men and teaching by word of mouth, before the Apostles by
their writings bore witness to the work of redemption and the law of
liberty? Wherefore, between tradition, works, and scripture there is
no contradiction, but, on the contrary, complete agreement. A man
understands the Scriptures, so far as he preserves tradition, and
does works agreeable to the wisdom that lives within him. But the
wisdom that lives within him is not given to him individually, but as
a member of the Church, and it is given to him in part, without
altogether annulling his individual error; but to the Church it is
given in the fullness of truth and without any admixture of error.
Wherefore he must not judge the Church, but submit to her, that
wisdom be not taken from him.

Every one that seeks for proof of the truth of the Church, by that
very act either shows his doubt, and excludes himself from the
Church, or assumes the appearance of one who doubts and at the same
time preserves a hope of proving the truth, and arriving at it by his
own power of reason: but the powers of reason do not attain to the
truth of God, and the weakness of man is made manifest by the
weakness of his proofs. The man who takes Scripture only, and founds
the Church on it alone, is in reality rejecting the Church, and is
hoping to found her afresh by his own powers: the man who takes
tradition and works only, and depreciates the importance of
Scripture, is likewise in reality rejecting the Church, and
constituting himself a judge of the Spirit of God, who spoke by the
Scripture. For Christian knowledge is a matter, not of intellectual
investigation, but of a living faith, which is a gift of grace.
Scripture is external, an outward thing, and tradition is external,
and works are external: that which is inward in them is the one
Spirit of God. From tradition taken alone, or from scripture or from
works, a man can but derive an external and incomplete knowledge,
which may indeed in itself contain truth, for it starts from truth,
but at the same time must of necessity be erroneous, inasmuch as it
is incomplete. A believer knows the Truth, but an unbeliever does not
know it, or at least only knows it with an external and imperfect
knowledge. The Church does not prove herself either as Scripture or
as tradition or as works, but bears witness to herself, just as the
Spirit of God, dwelling in her, bears witness to Himself in the
Scriptures. The Church does not ask: Which Scripture is true, which
tradition is true, which Council is true, or what works are pleasing
to God: for Christ knows His own inheritance, and the Church in which
He lives knows by inward knowledge, and cannot help knowing, her own
manifestations. The collection of Old and New Testament books, which
the Church acknowledges as hers, are called by the name of Holy
Scripture. But there are no limits to Scripture; for every writing
which the Church acknowledges as hers is Holy Scripture. Such pre-
eminently are the Creeds of the General Councils, and especially the
Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed. Wherefore, the writing of Holy
Scripture has gone on up to our day, and, if God pleases, yet more
will be written. But in the Church there has not been, nor ever will
be, any contradictions, either in Scripture, or in tradition, or in
works; for in all three is Christ, one and unchangeable.



Confession,

Prayer and Deeds



EVERY ACTION OF THE CHURCH, directed by the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of
life and truth, sets forth the full completeness of all His gifts of
faith, hope, and love: or in Scripture not faith only, but also the
hope of the Church, is made manifest, and the love of God; and in
works well pleasing to God there is made manifest not only love, but
likewise faith and hope and grace; and in the living tradition of the
Church which awaits from God her crown and consummation in Christ,
not hope only, but also faith and love are manifested. The gifts of
the Holy Spirit are inseparably united in one holy and living unity;
but as works well pleasing to God belong more especially to love, and
prayer well pleasing to God belongs more especially to hope, so a
Creed well pleasing to God belongs more especially to faith, and the
Church's creed is rightly called the Confession or Symbol of the
Faith.

Wherefore it must be understood that Creeds and prayers and works are
nothing of themselves, but are only an external manifestation of the
inward spirit. Whereupon it also follows that neither he who prays
nor he who does works nor he who confesses the Creed of the Church is
pleasing to God, but only he who acts, confesses, and prays according
to the spirit of Christ living within him. All men have not the same
faith or the same hope or the same love; for a man may love the
flesh, fix his hope on the world, and confess his belief in a lie; he
may also love and hope and believe not fully, but only in part; and
the Church calls his faith, faith, and his hope, hope, and his love,
love; for he calls them so, and she will not dispute with him
concerning words; but what she herself calls faith, hope, and love
are the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and she knows that they are true
and perfect.



The Creed



THE HOLY CHURCH CONFESSES her faith by her whole life; by her
doctrine, which is inspired by the Holy Ghost; by her Sacraments in
which the Holy Ghost works; and by her rites, which He directs. And
the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Symbol is pre-eminently called her
Confession of Faith.

In the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Symbol is comprised the confession
of the Church's doctrine; but, in order that it might be known that
the hope of the Church is inseparable from her doctrine, it likewise
confesses her hope; for it is said: 'we look for,' and not
merely, 'we believe in,' that which is to come.

The Niceno-Constantinopolitan Symbol, the full and complete
Confession of the Church, from which she allows nothing to be omitted
and to which she permits nothing to be added, is as follows :."I
believe in one God, Father, Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth, and
of all things visible and invisible: And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all ages;
Light from Light, True God from True God, begotten, not made; of one
essence with the Father, through Whom all things were made: Who for
us men, and for our salvation, came down from Heaven, and was
incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became Man: And
was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was
buried: And He rose on the third day according to the Scriptures: And
ascended into Heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father: And
He is coming again with glory to judge the living and the dead: And
His Kingdom will have no end: And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the
Giver of Life, Who proceeds from the Father, Who with the Father and
the Son is equally worshipped and glorified, Who spoke by the
Prophets: And in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. I confess
one Baptism for the remission of sins. I look for the Resurrection of
Dead and the Life of the Age to come. Amen."

This confession, just as also the whole life of the Spirit, is
comprehensible only to one who believes and is a member of the
Church. It contains within itself mysteries inaccessible to the
inquiring intellect, and manifest only to God Himself, and to those
to whom He makes them manifest for an inward and living, not a dead
and outward, knowledge. It contains within itself the mystery of the
existence of God not only in relation to His outward action upon
creation, but also to His inward eternal being. Therefore the pride
of reason and of illegal domination, which appropriated to itself, in
opposition to the decree of the whole Church (pronounced at the
Council of Ephesus), the right to add its private explanations and
human hypotheses to the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Symbol, is in
itself an infraction of the sanctity and inviolability of the Church.
Just as the very pride of the separate Churches, which dared to
change the Symbol of the whole Church without the consent of their
brethren, was inspired by a spirit not of love, and was a crime
against God and the Church, so also their blind wisdom, which did not
comprehend the mysteries of God, was a distortion of the faith; for
faith is not preserved where love has grown weak. Wherefore the
addition of the words filioque contains a sort of imaginary dogma,
unknown to any one of the writers well pleasing to God, or of the
Bishops or successors of the Apostles in the first ages of the
Church, and not spoken by Christ our Saviour. As Christ spoke
clearly, so did and does the Church clearly confess that the Holy
Ghost proceedeth from the Father; for not only the outward, but also
the inward, mysteries of God were revealed by Christ, and by the
Spirit of Faith, to the holy Apostles and to the holy Church. When
Theodoret called all who confessed the procession of the Holy Ghost
from the Father and the Son blasphemers, the Church, while detecting
his many errors, in this case approved his judgment by an eloquent
silence. The Church does not deny that the Holy Spirit is sent not
only by the Father, but also by the Son; the Church does not deny
that the Holy Ghost is communicated to all rational creatures not
only from the Father but also through the Son; but what she does
reject is that the Holy Ghost had the principle of His procession in
the Godhead itself, not merely from the Father, but also from the
Son. He who has renounced the spirit of love and divested himself of
the gifts of grace cannot any longer possess inward knowledge that is
faith, but limits himself to mere outward knowledge; wherefore he can
only know what is external, and not the inner mysteries of God.
Communities of Christians which had broken away from the Holy Church
could no longer confess (inasmuch as they now could not comprehend
with the Spirit) the procession of the Holy Ghost, in the Godhead
itself, from the Father only; but from that time they were obliged to
confess only the external mission of the Spirit into all creation, a
mission which comes to pass, not only from the Father, but also
through the Son. They preserved the external form of the faith, but
they lost the inner meaning and the grace of God; as in their
confession, so also in their life.



The Church

and Its Mysteries



HAVING CONFESSED her faith in the Tri-hypostatic Deity, the Church
confesses her faith in herself, because she acknowledges herself to
be the instrument and vessel of divine grace, and acknowledges her
works as the works of God, not as the works of the individuals of
whom, in her visible manifestation [upon earth], she is composed. In
this confession she shows that knowledge concerning her essence and
being is likewise a gift of grace, granted from above, and accessible
to faith alone and not to reason.

For what would be the need for me to say, "I believe," if I already
knew? Is not faith the evidence of things not seen? But the visible
Church is not the visible society of Christians, but the Spirit of
God and the grace of the Sacraments living in this society. Wherefore
even the visible Church is visible only to the believer; for to the
unbeliever a sacrament is only a rite, and the Church merely a
Society. The believer, while with the eyes of the body and of reason
he sees the Church in her outward manifestations only, by the Spirit
takes knowledge of her in her sacraments and prayers and works well
pleasing to God. Wherefore he does not confuse her with the society
which bears the name of Christians, for not every one that
saith, "Lord, Lord," really belongs to the chosen race and to the
seed of Abraham. But the true Christian knows by faith that the One
Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church will never disappear from the face
of the earth until the last judgment of all creation, that she will
remain on earth invisible to fleshly eyes, or to the understanding
which is wise according to the flesh, among the visible society of
Christians, exactly in the same way as she remains visible to the eye
of faith in the Church beyond the grave, but invisible to the bodily
eyes. But the Christian also knows, by means of the faith, that the
Church upon earth, although it is invisible, is always clothed in a
visible form; that there neither was, nor could have been, nor ever
will be a time in which the sacraments will be mutilated, holiness
will be dried up, or doctrine will be corrupted; and that he is no
Christian who cannot say where, from the time of the Apostles
themselves, the holy Sacraments have been and are being administered,
where doctrine was and is preserved, where prayers were and are being
sent up to the throne of grace. The Holy Church confesses and
believes that the sheep have never been deprived of their Divine
Pastor, and that the Church never could either err for want of
understanding — for the understanding of God dwells within her — or
submit to false doctrines for want of courage — for within her dwells
the might of the Spirit of God.

Believing in the word of God's promise, which has named all the
followers of Christ's doctrine the friends of Christ and His
brethren, and in Him the adopted sons of God, the Holy Church
confesses the paths by which it pleases God to lead fallen and dead
humanity to reunion in the spirit of grace and life. Wherefore,
having made mention of the prophets, the representatives of the age
of the Old Testament, she confesses Sacraments, through which, in the
Church of the New Testament, God sends down His grace upon men, and
more especially she confesses the Sacrament of Baptism for the
remission of sins, as containing within itself the principle of all
the others; for through Baptism alone does a man enter into the unity
of the Church, which is the custodian of all the rest of the
Sacraments.

Confessing one Baptism for the remission of sins, as a Sacrament
ordained by Christ Himself for entrance into the Church of the New
Testament, the Church does not judge those who have not entered into
communion with her through Baptism, for she knows and judges herself
only. God alone knows the hardness of the heart, and He judges the
weaknesses of reason according to truth and mercy. Many have been
saved and have received inheritance without having received the
Sacrament of Baptism with water; for it was instituted only for the
Church of the New Testament. He who rejects it rejects the whole
Church and the Spirit of God which lives within her; but it was not
ordained for man from the beginning, neither was it prescribed to the
Church of the Old Testament. For if any one should say that
circumcision was the Baptism of the Old Testament, he rejects Baptism
for women, for whom there was no circumcision; and what will he say
about the Patriarchs from Adam to Abraham, who did not receive the
seal of circumcision? And in any case does not he acknowledge that
outside the Church of the New Testament the Sacrament of Baptism was
not of obligation? If he will say that it was on behalf of the Church
of the Old Testament that Christ received Baptism, who will place a
limit to the loving-kindness of God, who took upon Himself the sins
of the world? Baptism is indeed of obligation; for it alone is the
door into the Church of the New Testament, and in Baptism alone does
man testify his assent to the redeeming action of grace. Wherefore
also in Baptism alone is he saved.

Moreover, we know that in confessing one Baptism, as the beginning of
all Sacraments, we do not reject the others; for, believing in the
Church, we, together with her, confess Seven Sacraments, namely,
Baptism, the Eucharist, Laying on of Hands, Confirmation with Chrism,
Marriage, Penance, and Unction of the Sick. There are also many other
Sacraments; for every work which is done in faith, love, and hope, is
suggested to man by the Spirit of God, and invokes the unseen Grace
of God. But the Seven Sacraments are in reality not accomplished by
any single individual who is worthy of the mercy of God, but by the
whole Church in the person of an individual, even though he be
unworthy.

Concerning the Sacrament of the Eucharist (Communion) the Holy Church
teaches that in it the change of bread and wine into the Body and
Blood of Christ is verily accomplished. She does not reject the
word 'Transubstantiation'; but she does not assign to it that
material meaning which is assigned to it by the teachers of the
Churches which have fallen away. The change of the bread and wine
into the Body and Blood of Christ is accomplished in the Church and
for the Church. If a man receive the consecrated Gifts, or worship
them, or think on them with faith, he verily receives, adores, and
thinks on the Body and Blood of Christ. If he receive unworthily he
verily rejects the Body and Blood of Christ; in any case, in faith or
in unbelief, he is sanctified or condemned by the Body and Blood of
Christ. But this Sacrament is in the Church and not for the outside
world, not for fire, not for irrational creatures, not for
corruption, and not for the man who has not heard the law of Christ
in the Church itself (we are speaking of the visible Church), to the
elect and to the reprobate the Holy Eucharist is not a mere
commemoration concerning the mystery of redemption, it is not a
presence of spiritual gifts within the bread and wine, it is not
merely a spiritual reception of the Body and Blood of Christ, but is
His true Body and Blood. Not in spirit alone was Christ pleased to
unite Himself with the faithful, but also in Body and in Blood; in
order that that union might be complete, and not only spiritual but
also corporal. Both nonsensical explanations concerning the relations
of the holy Sacrament to elements and irrational creatures (when the
Sacrament was instituted for the Church alone), and that spiritual
pride which despises body and blood and rejects the corporal union
with Christ, are equally opposed to the Church. We shall not rise
again without the body, and no spirit, except the Spirit of God, can
be said to be entirely incorporeal. He that despises the body sins
through pride of spirit.

Of the Sacrament of Ordination the Holy Church teaches that through
it the grace which brings the Sacraments into effect is handed on in
succession from the Apostles and from Christ Himself: not as if no
Sacrament could be brought to effect otherwise than through
Ordination (for every Christian is able through Baptism to open the
door of the Church to an infant or a Jew or a heathen), but that
Ordination contains within itself all the fullness of grace given by
Christ to His Church. And the Church herself, in Communicating to her
members the Fullness of spiritual gifts, in the strength of the
freedom given her by God, has appointed differences in the grades of
Ordination. The Presbyter who performs all the Sacraments except
Ordination has one gift, the Bishop who performs Ordination has
another; and higher than the gift of the Episcopate there is nothing.
The Sacrament gives to him who receives it this great significance
that, even if he be unworthy, yet in performing his Sacramental
service his action necessarily proceeds not from himself, but from
the whole Church, that is from Christ living within her. If
Ordination ceased, all the Sacraments except Baptism would also
cease; and the human race would be torn away from grace: for the
Church herself would then bear witness that Christ had departed from
her.

Concerning the Sacrament of Confirmation with Chrism, the Church
teaches that in it the gifts of the Holy Ghost are conferred upon the
Christian, confirming his faith and inward holiness: and this
Sacrament is by the will of the Holy Church performed not by Bishops
only, but also by Presbyters, although the Chrism itself can only be
blessed by a Bishop.

Of the Sacrament of Marriage the Holy Church teaches that the grace
of God, which blesses the succession of generations in the temporal
existence of the human race and the holy union of man and woman for
the organization of the family, is a sacramental gift imposing upon
those who receive it a high obligation of mutual love and spiritual
holiness, through which that which otherwise is sinful and material
is endued with righteousness and purity. Wherefore the great teachers
of the Church, the Apostles, recognize the Sacrament of marriage even
amongst the heathen: for while they forbid concubinage, they confirm
marriage between Christians and heathens; saying that the man is
sanctified by the believing wife, and the wife by the believing
husband (1 Cor. 7. 14). These words of the Apostle do not mean that;
an unbeliever could be saved by his or her union with a believer, but
that the marriage is sanctified: for it is not the person, but the
husband or wife, who is sanctified. One person is not saved through
another, but the husband or the wife is sanctified in relation to the
marriage itself. And thus marriage is not unclean, even amongst
idolaters; but they themselves know not of the grace of God given
unto them. The Holy Church through her ordained ministers
acknowledges and blesses the union, blessed by God, of husband and
wife. Wherefore marriage is not a mere rite but a true Sacrament. And
it receives its accomplishment in the Holy Church, for in her alone
is every holy thing accomplished in its fullness.

Concerning the Sacrament of Penance the Holy Church teaches that
without it the spirit of man cannot be cleansed from the bondage of
sin and of sinful pride: that he himself cannot remit his own sins
(for we have only the power to condemn, not to justify ourselves),
and that the Church alone has the power of justifying, for within her
lives the fullness of the Spirit of Christ. We know that the first
one who entered the Kingdom of Heaven after the Savior was the one
who condemned himself and repented (thief) saying on the cross: "We
receive the due reward of our deeds" (Luke 23:41). Because of this
repentance he received absolution from Him who alone can absolve, and
who gave this authority to His Church (John 20:23).

Of the Sacrament of Anointing with consecrated oil [Unction of the
Sick] the Holy Church teaches, that in it is perfected the blessing
of the whole fight (1 Tim. 4:7) which has been endured by a man in
his life upon earth, of all the journey which has been gone through
by him in faith and humility, and that in Unction of the Sick the
divine verdict itself is pronounced upon man's earthly frame, healing
it, when all medicinal means are of no avail, or else permitting
death to destroy the corruptible body, which is no longer required
for the Church on earth or the mysterious ways of God.



Faith and Life

in Church Unity



THE CHURCH, even upon earth, lives, not an earthly human life, but a
life of grace which is divine. Wherefore not only each of her
members, but she herself as a whole, solemnly calls herself "Holy."
Her visible manifestation is contained in the Sacraments, but her
inward life in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, in faith, hope, and
love. Oppressed and persecuted by enemies without, at times agitated
and lacerated within by the evil passions of her children, she has
been and ever will be preserved without wavering or change wherever
the Sacraments and spiritual holiness are preserved. Never is she
either disfigured or in need of reformation. She lives not under a
law of bondage, but under a law of liberty. She neither acknowledges
any authority over her, except her own, nor any tribunal, but the
tribunal of faith (for reason does not comprehend her), and she
expresses her love, her faith, and her hope in her prayers and rites,
suggested to her by the Spirit of truth and by the grace of Christ.
Wherefore her rites themselves, even if they are not unchangeable
(for they are composed by the spirit of liberty and may be changed
according to the judgment of the Church) can never, in any case,
contain any, even the smallest, admixture of error or false doctrine.
And the rites (of the Church) while they are unchanged are of
obligation to the members of the Church; for in their observance is
the joy of holy unity.

External unity is the unity manifested in the communion of
Sacraments; while internal unity is unity of spirit. Many (as for
instance some of the martyrs) have been saved without having been
made partakers of so much as one of the Sacraments of the Church (not
even of Baptism) but no one is saved without partaking of the inward
holiness of the Church, of her faith, hope, and love: for it is not
works which save, but faith. And faith, that is to say, true and
living faith, is not twofold, but single. Wherefore both those who
say that faith alone does not save, but that works also are
necessary, and those who say that faith saves without works, are void
of understanding; for if there are no works, then faith is shown to
be dead; and, if it be dead, it is also untrue; for in true faith
there is Christ the truth and the life; but, if it be not true, then
it is false, that is to say, mere external knowledge. But can that
which is false save a man? But if it be true, then it is also a
living faith, that is to say, one which does works; but if it does
works, what works are still required?

The divinely inspired Apostle saith: "Show me the faith of which thou
boastest thyself by thy works, even as I show my faith by my works."
Does he acknowledge two faiths? No, but exposes a senseless
boast. "Thou believest in God, but the devils also believe." Does he
acknowledge that there is faith in devils? No, but he detects the
falsehood which boasts itself of a quality which even devils
possess. "As the body," saith he, "without the soul is dead, so faith
without works is dead also." Does he compare faith to the body and
works to the Spirit? No, for such a simile would be untrue; but the
meaning of his words is clear. Just as a body without a soul is no
longer a man, and cannot properly be called a man, but a corpse, so
faith also that does no works cannot be called true faith, but false;
that is to say, an external knowledge, fruitless, and attainable even
by devils. That which is written simply ought also to be read simply.
Wherefore those who rely upon the Apostle James for a proof that
there is a dead faith and a living faith, and as it were two faiths,
do not comprehend the words of the Apostle; for the Apostle bears
witness not for them, but against them. Likewise when the Great
Apostle of the Gentiles says, 'What is the use of faith without love,
even of such a faith as would remove mountains?" (1 Cor. 13:2) he
does not maintain the possibility of such faith without love: but
assuming its possibility he shows that it would be useless. Holy
Scripture ought not to be read in the spirit of worldly wisdom, which
wrangles over words, but in the spirit of the wisdom of God, and of
spiritual simplicity. The Apostle, in defining faith, says, "it is
the evidence of things unseen, and the confidence of things hoped
for" (not merely of things awaited, or things to come), but if we
hope, we also desire, and if we desire, we also love; for it is
impossible to desire that which a man loves not. Or have the devils
also hope? Wherefore there is but one faith, and when we ask, "Can
true faith save without works?" we ask a senseless question; or
rather no question at all: for true faith is a living faith which
does works; it is faith in Christ, and Christ in faith.

Those who have mistaken a dead faith, that is to say, a false faith,
or mere external knowledge, for true faith, have gone so far in their
delusion that, without knowing it themselves, they have made of it an
eighth Sacrament. The Church has faith, but it is a living faith; for
she has also sanctity. But if one man or one bishop is necessarily to
have the faith, what are we to say? Has he sanctity? No, for it may
be he is notorious for crime and immorality. But the faith is to
abide in him even though he be a sinner. So the faith within him is
an eighth Sacrament; inasmuch as every Sacrament is the action of the
Church in an individual, even though he be unworthy. But through this
Sacrament what sort of faith abides in him? A living faith? No, for
he is a sinner. But a dead faith, that is to say, external knowledge,
is attainable, even by devils. And is this to be an eighth Sacrament?
Thus does departure from the truth bring about its own punishment.

We must understand that neither faith nor hope nor love saves of
itself (for will faith in reason, or hope in the world, or love for
the flesh save us?). No, it is the object of faith which saves. If a
man believes in Christ, he is saved in his faith by Christ; if he
believes in the Church, he is saved by the Church; if he believes in
Christ's Sacraments, he is saved by them; for Christ our God is in
the Church and the Sacraments. The Church of the Old Testament was
saved by faith in a Redeemer to come. Abraham was saved by the same
Christ as we. He possessed Christ in hope, while we possess Him in
joy. Wherefore he who desires Baptism is baptized in will; while he
who has received Baptism possesses it in joy. An identical faith in
Baptism saves both of them. But a man may say, "if faith in Baptism
saves, what is the use of being actually baptized?" If he does not
receive Baptism what did he wish for? It is evident that the faith
which desires Baptism must be perfected by the reception of Baptism
itself, which is its joy. Therefore also the house of Cornelius
received the Holy Ghost before he received Baptism, while the eunuch
was filled with the same Spirit immediately after Baptism (Acts 10,
44-47, 8. 38, cf. 2. 38). For God can glorify the Sacrament of
Baptism just as well before, as after, its administration. Thus the
difference between the opus operans and opus operatum disappears. We
know that there are many persons who have not christened their
children, and many who have not admitted them to Communion in the
Holy Mysteries, and many who have not confirmed them: but the Holy
Church understands things otherwise, christening infants and
confirming them and admitting them to Communion. She has not ordained
these things in order to condemn unbaptized children, whose angels do
always behold the face of God (Matt. 18:10); but she has ordained
this, according to the spirit of love which lives within her, in
order that the first thought of a child arriving at years of
discretion should be, not only a desire, but also a joy for
sacraments which have been already received. And can one know the joy
of a child who to all appearances has not yet arrived at discretion?
Did not the prophet, even before His birth, exult for joy concerning
Christ (St. Luke 1. 41)? Those who have deprived children of Baptism
and Confirmation and Communion are they who, having inherited the
blind wisdom of blind heathendom, have not comprehended the majesty
of God's Sacraments, but have required reasons and uses for
everything and, having subjected the doctrine of the Church to
scholastic explications, will not even pray unless they see in the
prayer some direct goal or advantage. But our law is not a law of
bondage or of hireling service, laboring for wages, but a law of the
adoption of sons, and of love which is free.

We know that when any one of us falls he falls alone; but no one is
saved alone. He who is saved is saved in the Church, as a member of
her, and in unity with all her other members. If any one believes, he
is in the communion of faith; if he loves, he is in the communion of
love; if he prays, he is in the communion of prayer. Wherefore no one
can rest his hope on his own prayers, and every one who prays asks
the whole Church for intercession, not as if he had doubts of the
intercession of Christ, the one Advocate, but in the assurance that
the whole Church ever prays for all her members. All the angels pray
for us, the apostles, martyrs, and patriarchs, and above them all,
the Mother of our Lord, and this holy unity is the true life of the
Church. But if the Church, visible and invisible, prays without
ceasing, why do we ask her for her prayers? Do we not entreat mercy
of God and Christ, although His mercy preventeth our prayer? The very
reason that we ask the Church for her prayers is that we know that
she gives the assistance of her intercession even to him that does
not ask for it, and to him that asks she gives it in far greater
measure than he asks: for in her is the fullness of the Spirit of
God. Thus we glorify all whom God has glorified and is glorifying;
for how should we say that Christ is living within us, if we do not
make ourselves like unto Christ? Wherefore we glorify the Saints the
Angels, and the Prophets, and more than all the most pure Mother of
the Lord Jesus, not acknowledging her either to have been conceived
without sin, or to have been perfect (for Christ alone is without sin
and perfect), but remembering that the pre-eminence, passing all
understanding, which she has above all God's creatures was borne
witness to by the Angel and by Elizabeth and, above all, by the
Saviour Himself when He appointed John, His great Apostle and seer of
mysteries, to fulfill the duties of a son and to serve her.

Just as each of us requires prayers from all, so each person owes his
prayers on behalf of all, the living and the dead, and even those who
are as yet unborn, for in praying, as we do with all the Church, that
the world may come to the knowledge of God, we pray not only for the
present generation, but for those whom God will hereafter call into
life. We pray for the living that the grace of God may be upon them,
and for the dead that they may become worthy of the vision of God's
face. We know nothing of an intermediate state of souls, which have
neither been received into the kingdom of God, nor condemned to
torture, for of such a state we have received no teaching either from
the Apostles or from Christ; we do not acknowledge Purgatory, that
is, the purification of souls by sufferings from which they may be
redeemed by their own works or those of others: for the Church knows
nothing of salvation by outward means, nor any sufferings whatever
they may be, except those of Christ; nor of bargaining with God, as
in the case of a man buying himself off by good works.

All such heathenism as this remains with the inheritors of the wisdom
of the heathen, with those who pride themselves in place, or name, or
in territorial dominion, and who have instituted an eighth Sacrament
of dead faith. But we pray in the spirit of love, knowing that no one
will be saved otherwise than by the prayer of all the Church, in
which Christ lives, knowing and trusting that so long as the end of
time has not come, all the members of the Church, both living and
departed, are being perfected incessantly by mutual prayer. The
Saints whom God has glorified are much higher than we, but higher
than all is the Holy Church, which comprises within herself all the
Saints, and prays for all, as may be seen in the divinely inspired
Liturgy. In her prayer our prayer is also heard; however unworthy we
may be to be called sons of the Church. If, while worshipping and
glorifying the Saints, we pray that God may glorify them, we do not
lay ourselves open to the charge of pride; for to us who have
received permission to call God "Our Father" leave has also been
granted to pray, "Hallowed be Thy Name, Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be
done." And if we are permitted to pray of God that He will glorify
His Name, and accomplish His Will, who will forbid us to pray Him to
glorify His Saints, and to give repose to His elect? For those indeed
who are not of the elect we do not pray, just as Christ prayed not
for the whole world, but for those whom the Lord had given unto Him
(St. John 17). Let no one say: "What prayer shall I apportion for the
living or the departed, when my prayers are insufficient even for
myself?" For if he is not able to pray, of what use would it be to
pray even for himself? But in truth the spirit of love prays in him.
Likewise let him not say: "What is the good of my prayer for another,
when he prays for himself, and Christ Himself intercedes for him?"
When a man prays, it is the spirit of love which prays within him.
Let him not say: "It is even now impossible to change the judgment of
God," for his prayer itself is included in the ways of God, and God
foresaw it. If he be a member of the Church his prayer is necessary
for all her members. If the hand should say that it did not require
blood from the rest of the body, and that it would not give its own
blood to it, the hand would wither. So a man is also necessary to the
Church, as long as he is in her; and, if he withdraws himself from
communion with her, he perishes himself and will cease to be any
longer a member of the Church. The Church prays for all, and we pray
together for all; but our prayer must be true, and a true expression
of love, and not a mere form of words. Not being able to love all
men, we pray for those whom we love, and our prayer is not
hypocritical; but we pray God that we may be able to love all and
pray for all without hypocrisy. Mutual prayer is the blood of the
Church, and the glorification of God her breath. We pray in a spirit
of love, not of interest, in the spirit of filial freedom, not of the
law of the hireling demanding his pay. Every man who asks: "What use
is there in prayer?" acknowledges himself to be in bondage. True
prayer is true love.

Love and unity are above everything, but love expresses itself in
many ways: by works, by prayer, and by spiritual songs. The Church
bestows her blessing upon all these expressions of love. If a man
cannot express his love for God by word, but expresses it by a
visible representation, that is to say an image (icon), will the
Church condemn him? No, but she will condemn the man who condemns
him, for he is condemning another's love. We know that without the
use of an image men may also be saved and have been saved, and if a
man's love does not require an image he will be saved without one;
but if the love of his brother requires an image, he, in condemning
this brother's love, condemneth himself; if a man being a Christian
dare not listen without a feeling of reverence to a prayer or
spiritual song composed by his brother, how dare he look without
reverence upon the image which his love, and not his art, has
produced? The Lord Himself, who knows the secrets of the heart, has
designed more than once to glorify a prayer or psalm; will a man
forbid Him to glorify an image or the graves of the Saints? One may
say: "The Old Testament has forbidden the representation of God;" but
does he, who thus thinks he understands better than Holy Church the
words which she herself wrote (that is, the Scriptures), not see that
it was not a representation of God which the Old Testament forbade
(for it allowed the Cherubim, and the brazen serpent, and the writing
of the Name of God), but that it forbade a man to make unto himself a
god in the similitude of any object in earth or in heaven, visible or
even imaginary?

If a man paints an image to remind him of the invisible and
inconceivable God, he is not making to himself an idol. If he
imagines God to himself and thinks that He is like to his
imagination, he maketh to himself an idol — that is the meaning of
the prohibition in the Old Testament. But an image [eikon] (that is
to say, the Name of God painted in colors), or a representation of
His Saints, made by love, is not forbidden by the spirit of truth.
Let none say, "Christians are going over to idolatry;" for the spirit
of Christ which preserves the Church is wiser than a man's
calculating wisdom. Wherefore a man may indeed be saved without
images, but he must not reject images.

The Church accepts every rite which expresses spiritual aspiration
towards God, just as she accepts prayer and images [eikons], but she
recognizes as higher than all rites the holy Liturgy, in which is
expressed all the fullness of the doctrine and spirit of the Church;
and this, not only by conventional signs or symbols of some kind, but
by the word of life and truth inspired from above. He alone knows the
Church who knows the Liturgy. Above all is the unity of holiness and
love.



Salvation



THE HOLY CHURCH, in confessing that she looks for the Resurrection of
the dead and the final judgment of all mankind, acknowledges that the
perfecting of all her members will be fulfilled together with her
own, and that the future life pertains, not only to the spirit, but
also to the spiritual body; for God alone is a perfectly incorporeal
Spirit. Wherefore she rejects the pride of those who preach a
doctrine of an incorporeal state beyond the grave, and consequently
despise the body, in which Christ rose from the dead. This body will
not be a fleshly body, but will be like unto the corporeal state of
the Angels, inasmuch as Christ Himself said that we shall be like
unto the Angels.

In the last Judgment our justification in Christ will be revealed in
its fullness; not our sanctification only, but also our
justification, for no man has been or is as yet completely
sanctified, but there is still need of justification. Christ worketh
all that is good in us, whether it be in faith or in hope or in love;
while we only submit ourselves to His working, but no man submits
himself wholly. Therefore there is still need of justification by the
sufferings and blood of Christ. Who, then, can continue to speak of
the merits of his own works, or of a treasury of merits and prayers?
Only those who are still living under a law of bondage. Christ works
all good in us, but we never wholly submit ourselves, none, not even
the Saints, as the Saviour Himself has said. Grace works all, and
grace is given freely and to all, that none shall be able to murmur,
but not equally to all, not according to predestination, but
according to foreknowledge, as the Apostle says. A smaller talent
indeed is given to the man in whom the Lord has foreseen negligence,
in order that the rejection of a greater gifts should not serve to
greater condemnation. And we do not increase the talents which have
been intrusted to us ourselves, but they are put out to the
exchangers, in order that even here there should not be any merit of
ours, but only non-resistance to the grace which causes the increase.
Thus the distinction between "sufficient" and "effectual" grace
disappears. Grace worketh all, if a man submits to it the Lord is
perfected in- him, and perfects him; but let not a man boast himself
in his obedience, for his obedience itself is of grace. But we never
submit ourselves wholly: wherefore besides sanctification we ask also
for justification.

All is accomplished in the consummation of the general judgement, and
the Spirit of God that is, the Spirit of faith, hope, and love, will
reveal Himself in all His fullness, and every gift will attain its
utmost perfection; but above them all will be love. Not that it is to
be thought that faith and hope, which are the gifts of God, will
perish (for they are not separable from love), but love alone will
preserve its name, while faith, arriving at its consummation, will
then have become full inward knowledge and sight; and hope will have
become joy; for even on earth we know that the stronger it is, the
more joyful it is.



Unity of Orthodoxy



BY THE WILL OF GOD the Holy Church, after the falling away of many
schisms, and of the Roman Patriarchate, was preserved in the Greek
Dioceses and Patriarchates, and only those communities can
acknowledge one another as fully Christian which preserve their unity
with the Eastern Patriarchates, or enter into this unity. For there
is one God and one Church, and within her there is neither dissension
nor disagreement.

And therefore the Church is called Orthodox, or Eastern, or Greco-
Russian, but all these are only temporary designations. The Church
ought not to be accused of pride for calling herself Orthodox,
inasmuch as she also calls herself Holy. When false doctrines shall
have disappeared, there will be no further need for the name
Orthodox, for then there will be no erroneous Christianity. When the
Church shall have extended herself, or the fullness of the nations
shall have entered into her, then all local appellations will cease;
for the Church is not bound up with any locality; she neither boasts
herself of any particular see or territory, nor preserves the
inheritance of pagan pride; but she calls herself One Holy Catholic
and Apostolic; knowing that the whole world belongs to her, and that
no locality therein possesses any specia1 significance, but only
temporarily can and does serve for the glorification of the name of
God, according to His unsearchable will.







Missionary Leaflet # E72

Copyright © 2001 Holy Trinity Orthodox Mission

466 Foothill Blvd, Box 397, La Canada, Ca 91011

Editor: Bishop Alexander (Mileant)






(Church_is_One_e.doc, 12-04-2001)

Edited by Donald Shufran

#10 From: Mary Lanser <mel5@...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 12:02 am
Subject: Re: Alexei Khomiakov: The Church Is One
anarch16803
Send Email Send Email
 
"rmichaelzachery" receives "no mail" from Irenikon and appears not to have
read the list guidelines.

   You may find all of his excellent long posts at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrthodoxMartyria/

#11 From: "rmichaelzachary1" <rmichaelzachary1@...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 12:58 am
Subject: Re: Alexei Khomiakov: The Church Is One
rmichaelzach...
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Mary,

Christ is in our midst!

Please forgive me a sinner if in any way I have been non-cognizant of
any guidelines.  I thought this group was an egroup equivalent of its
namesake, the journal once printed by Maloney SJ.  I hope that a
positive orient which is not uncritical is also welcome, and I hope
you can welcome this.  Whilst in general I am not welcoming of
anything resembling eastern rite catholicism, I  am heartened by your
openess and wish to express a general gratitude and admiration of
your endeavour.  I am not clear of just exactly what you consider
appropriate or inappropriate in reference to your guidelines.  To
avoid any possible future misunderstanding, I would be the first to
volunteer to have all future posts from myself moderated.  And I
would be grateful  if you did so.  I post this openly, for I am
clarifying the fact that whatever participation I may put forward on
your group, I should like to be understood as not malign.  I thank
you for your endorsement of Orthodox Martyria and can only say that
waht is posted on my group is not worthy of me, a sinner:  I am not
the one who has expressed the Truth excellently, but the Saints and
Fathers of the Church.  Sincerely, I am not here to offend, for your
graciousness and overall kind character is an endorsement of what you
do.
    I would put forward a discussion topic with two provisos:
1).  It be confronted ONLY with a positive orientation, responses
being a product of prayer and fasting.
2).  It would have your approval to be pursued.
That discussion topic would be:  In what amicable context can view
the position of eastern rite catholicism in dialogue between
Orthodoxy and the latins.  This discussion should be non-injurious,
and I genuinely do have something in mind.  It should reflect the
Spirit of Love and Truth.  At the same time, it should not compromise
the integrity of the three positions: Orthodox, uniate, latin.  I
view it in three phases:
1). Putting forward and building three theses.
2). Integrating and being critical of these theses.
3). Resolving what can be agreed upon.
You would agree--I hope--that this could be a scholarly and
legitimate model put forward.  In any event, I thank you for your
patience.
    Although of late I have little concerned myself with dialgue
oriented in this direction--I prefer to engage the non-Chalcedonians,
for their orientation and life is more in accord with what I view as
compatible--I am happy to engage in this discussion.  Know that this
is neither an endorsement of either points of view, latin and
alligned or non-Chalcedonian: I view both from a Traditional Orthodox
perspective, but I am open to discussion.
    I would also direct the kind and patient readership to a TRULY
excellent group, that of my dear friend:
GenuineOrthodox-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
I thank you for your endearing kindness and open to any emails,
private or on this board if in any way I may help you.

He is and ever shall be!
Rostislav Mikhailovich Malleev-Pokrovsky





--- In Irenikon@y..., Mary Lanser <mel5@p...> wrote:
> "rmichaelzachery" receives "no mail" from Irenikon and appears not
to have
> read the list guidelines.
>
>   You may find all of his excellent long posts at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrthodoxMartyria/

#12 From: Mary Lanser <mel5@...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 1:48 am
Subject: Re: Re: Alexei Khomiakov: The Church Is One
anarch16803
Send Email Send Email
 
At 12:58 AM 11/08/2002 +0000, rmichaelzachary1 wrote:
>Dear Mary,
>
>Christ is in our midst!

Indeed He dwells among us unto ages!

Dear Rostislav,

>Please forgive me a sinner if in any way I have been non-cognizant of
>any guidelines.

How could I do otherwise?

>   I thought this group was an egroup equivalent of its
>namesake, the journal once printed by Maloney SJ.

I was hoping it could be a bit more dynamic, you see.  Real people speaking
to real people in the spirit of our Lord.   Perhaps even Father George
might approve of such an appropriation of the name.

Sometimes it is better to post the reference to an article's location, and
save our time and space here for discussion, dialogue, personal witness,
prayer and the like.

>   I hope that a
>positive orient which is not uncritical is also welcome, and I hope
>you can welcome this.

Yes.

>  Whilst in general I am not welcoming of
>anything resembling eastern rite catholicism, I  am heartened by your
>openess and wish to express a general gratitude and admiration of
>your endeavour.  I am not clear of just exactly what you consider
>appropriate or inappropriate in reference to your guidelines.  To
>avoid any possible future misunderstanding, I would be the first to
>volunteer to have all future posts from myself moderated.

It appears to me that owner-moderation is no longer necessary.  It is not
that I do not like to see extended essays or meditations or topical
articles and news.  I love them.  I am addicted to words, to ideas, to
reading them and to writing them, to hearing their music, but too many
words all at once, and outside of the context of the immediate thought or
idea on the board, do tend to stifle conversation and dialogue that may
well profit from the longer pieces, IF and when taken in shorter bytes.

So perhaps we can limit ourselves to posting the url's for certain
pertinent or interesting long texts?  Or judiciously cutting and pasting or
typing or scanning small pieces of text, with attributions, that will add
rather than detract from dialogue or discussion?

Coincidentally, and I don't think he will mind my saying so, but Father
Gregory, a listmember, said to me in a private conversation on the opening
day of the list that the faithful of both Orthodoxy and of Rome can read
the same patristic text or scriptural passage and arrive at what sometimes
appears to be diametrically opposed conclusions concerning the meaning of
the text or the theological truth contained within.

Father is quite correct.  So it is important here to take texts that have
meaning to us and not only share the text but also the meanings, both
spiritual and practical, that we derive from those texts.  Perhaps we will
agree, perhaps not, and perhaps something entirely new and unexpected will
happen.  A change of heart, a glimmer of understanding...a spark of
inspiration.

>   And I
>would be grateful  if you did so.  I post this openly, for I am
>clarifying the fact that whatever participation I may put forward on
>your group, I should like to be understood as not malign.

I wish you could see the quite smile on my face, and you would know acceptance.

>   I thank
>you for your endorsement of Orthodox Martyria and can only say that
>waht is posted on my group is not worthy of me, a sinner:  I am not
>the one who has expressed the Truth excellently, but the Saints and
>Fathers of the Church.

You seem to have an "eye" for good texts, strong ideas, which is why I
recommended it.

>  Sincerely, I am not here to offend, for your
>graciousness and overall kind character is an endorsement of what you
>do.

Thank you.

>    I would put forward a discussion topic with two provisos:
>1).  It be confronted ONLY with a positive orientation, responses
>being a product of prayer and fasting.
>2).  It would have your approval to be pursued.
>That discussion topic would be:  In what amicable context can view
>the position of eastern rite catholicism in dialogue between
>Orthodoxy and the latins.  This discussion should be non-injurious,
>and I genuinely do have something in mind.  It should reflect the
>Spirit of Love and Truth.  At the same time, it should not compromise
>the integrity of the three positions: Orthodox, uniate, latin.  I
>view it in three phases:
>1). Putting forward and building three theses.
>2). Integrating and being critical of these theses.
>3). Resolving what can be agreed upon.
>You would agree--I hope--that this could be a scholarly and
>legitimate model put forward.  In any event, I thank you for your
>patience.
>    Although of late I have little concerned myself with dialgue
>oriented in this direction--I prefer to engage the non-Chalcedonians,
>for their orientation and life is more in accord with what I view as
>compatible--I am happy to engage in this discussion.  Know that this
>is neither an endorsement of either points of view, latin and
>alligned or non-Chalcedonian: I view both from a Traditional Orthodox
>perspective, but I am open to discussion.

Would you care to begin with a position statement or a statement of the
"three theses" as you see them?  I would be most happy to see this as the
inaugural discussion on Irenikon.

>    I would also direct the kind and patient readership to a TRULY
>excellent group, that of my dear friend:
>GenuineOrthodox-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>I thank you for your endearing kindness and open to any emails,
>private or on this board if in any way I may help you.

You have already helped me in ways that you may never see.  The fruits of
kindness are hidden deep in the heart of the tree...<smile>...And now you
see here why I dare not BAN long texts, simply suggest that we make them a
product of our own efforts.....blessings, mary

#13 From: "kcw" <kcw7@...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 11:34 am
Subject: Quote for the day (11-8-02)
thrak77
Send Email Send Email
 
From St. John of Kronstadt (My Life in Christ: Part 1, Holy Trinity
Monastery pg. 140):

     "Those commit murder who, through avarice or any other bad reason, delay
in affording the doctor's help to a sick person, or in giving bread to the
hungry."

In His Name,
Keith C. Wilkerson

http://home.earthlink.net/~kcw7/index.html

#14 From: "Karl P Henning" <kph37@...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 2:17 pm
Subject: Greetings
kph37
Send Email Send Email
 
Thank you all for making me welcome to the group.

I am a "there-&-back-again" Catholic;  drifted into a series of
Protestant houses while a teenager ... this was essentially (for me)
a slouch into a low-grade 'atheism' ... and while I was in Russia I
was restored to the Faith.

So, I am a Catholic with affection and respect for Orthodoxy.

Vocationally, I am a composer and clarinetist (also sing bass in a
paid choir, and conduct on occasion) ... to date, none of these
several musical tasks provides our upkeep, so I have been working at
an unmusical and unglamorous job in downtown Boston.

I look forward to listening and learning.

Pax Christi vobiscum,
~Karl

#15 From: "Karl P Henning" <kph37@...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 2:24 pm
Subject: Re: Frank Schaeffer: Diversity In Unity
kph37
Send Email Send Email
 
Lovely article.

Is Frank Schaeffer the son of Francis Schaeffer (or is he Francis
Schaeffer himself)?

Years ago, I was introduced to a series called something like "How
Then Shall We Live?" ... which prompted me to read some half dozen
Schaeffer books when I was a teenager.  As a young musician who was
in desperate need of a cultural background, I was especially
fascinated with Schaeffer's work ... though at this remove, I am
afraid I remember little enough of it ....

Pax Christi vobiscum,
~Karl

#16 From: Mary Lanser <mel5@...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 3:43 pm
Subject: Re: Greetings
anarch16803
Send Email Send Email
 
At 02:17 PM 11/08/2002 +0000, Karl P Henning wrote:
>Thank you all for making me welcome to the group.
>
>I am a "there-&-back-again" Catholic;  drifted into a series of
>Protestant houses while a teenager ... this was essentially (for me)
>a slouch into a low-grade 'atheism' ... and while I was in Russia I
>was restored to the Faith.
>
>So, I am a Catholic with affection and respect for Orthodoxy.

Morning Karl....I'd love to hear more of that story as you have time.

>Vocationally, I am a composer and clarinetist (also sing bass in a
>paid choir, and conduct on occasion) ... to date, none of these
>several musical tasks provides our upkeep, so I have been working at
>an unmusical and unglamorous job in downtown Boston.

Went and looked at your web site yesterday which is what prompted my
private note to you.  I am intrigued by your philosophy of music and other
essays.  Feel free to post the url here.  Others may find you and your
ideas equally engaging.

>I look forward to listening and learning.
>
>Pax Christi vobiscum,
>~Karl

Thank you for introducing yourself.  As far as I am aware at the moment, we
now have two young composers on the list and are twice blessed for it.  I
am hoping to soon have time here to make use of the "Link" section and
"Files" section provided to us by yahoogroups on the main page for Irenikon.

I'd like to keep the url's for our Orthodox and Roman Catholic sister lists
close at hand as well as text locations, and privately owned sites such as
your own.  The resources in ustav and Typikon, for example, are very
valuable and should be readily accessible as conversations develop
here.  The "Files" section is not too large but large enough to keep things
there when there is a need to see them for some particular topic.  Might as
well use what is available to us at the moment.  I am hoping this year to
have a website set up as a companion to Irenikon which will give us a bit
more space.

Christ's peace.....mary

#17 From: "Karl P Henning" <kph37@...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 4:20 pm
Subject: Re: Greetings
kph37
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In Irenikon@y..., Mary Lanser <mel5@p...> wrote:

> Went and looked at your web site yesterday which is what prompted
> my private note to you.  I am intrigued by your philosophy of music
> and other essays.  Feel free to post the url here.  Others may find
> you and your ideas equally engaging.

Thank you kindly.

> ... As far as I am aware at the moment, we now have two young
> composers on the list and are twice blessed for it.

With gratitude, I provide my URL;  and take pleasure in furnishing
Ivan's as well.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/ivanmoody/

http://members.tripod.com/~Karl_P_Henning/nf/front.html

Pax Christi vobiscum,
~Karl

#18 From: H R Stockert <the.avatar@...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 4:39 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Greetings
theavatar0
Send Email Send Email
 
At 04:20 PM 11/8/02 +0000, you wrote:
>--- In Irenikon@y..., Mary Lanser <mel5@p...> wrote:
>
> > Went and looked at your web site yesterday which is what prompted
> > my private note to you.  I am intrigued by your philosophy of music
> > and other essays.  Feel free to post the url here.  Others may find
> > you and your ideas equally engaging.
>
>Thank you kindly.
>
> > ... As far as I am aware at the moment, we now have two young
> > composers on the list and are twice blessed for it.
>
>With gratitude, I provide my URL;  and take pleasure in furnishing
>Ivan's as well.
>
>http://members.lycos.co.uk/ivanmoody/
>
>http://members.tripod.com/~Karl_P_Henning/nf/front.html
>
>Pax Christi vobiscum,
>~Karl

I hate when this happens......I hate being the bearer of bad news.  But
Karl, your members.tripod.com site has a busted link.   No document is
found at the url given.
                              ___________________________________________________

"You have the right to remain silent.  Anything you say will be misquoted
then used against you."

- FORP,  November 2002

43.405N,  73.264W

#19 From: Mary Lanser <mel5@...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 4:54 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Greetings
anarch16803
Send Email Send Email
 
At 11:39 AM 11/08/2002 -0500, H R Stockert wrote:
> >
> >http://members.tripod.com/~Karl_P_Henning/nf/front.html
> >
> >Pax Christi vobiscum,
> >~Karl
>
>I hate when this happens......I hate being the bearer of bad news.  But
>Karl, your members.tripod.com site has a busted link.   No document is
>found at the url given.

Try it again, Father, I just used it successfully as it is here....mary

#20 From: H R Stockert <the.avatar@...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 5:15 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Greetings
theavatar0
Send Email Send Email
 
At 11:54 AM 11/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
>At 11:39 AM 11/08/2002 -0500, H R Stockert wrote:
> > >
> > >http://members.tripod.com/~Karl_P_Henning/nf/front.html
> > >
> > >Pax Christi vobiscum,
> > >~Karl
> >
> >I hate when this happens......I hate being the bearer of bad news.  But
> >Karl, your members.tripod.com site has a busted link.   No document is
> >found at the url given.
>
>Try it again, Father, I just used it successfully as it is here....mary


Must have been a server glitch.  Just tried it from double-click mode here
and this time it did work.  Four times on the original note it did not.

                              ___________________________________________________

"You have the right to remain silent.  Anything you say will be misquoted
then used against you."

- FORP,  November 2002

43.405N,  73.264W

#21 From: "Timothy Copple" <Timothy@...>
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 6:42 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Frank Schaeffer: Diversity In Unity
rcopple
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Karl P Henning" <kph37@...>
To: <Irenikon@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 8:24 AM
Subject: [Irenikon] Re: Frank Schaeffer: Diversity In Unity


> Lovely article.
>
> Is Frank Schaeffer the son of Francis Schaeffer (or is he Francis
> Schaeffer himself)?

What I've heard is that Frank Schaeffer (the Protestant one that wrote on
many moral issues) is the father of Frankie Schaeffer (the one who converted
to Orthodoxy). If Francis is the longer name for Frank, then I think you are
correct, if by Frank you are referring to Frankie. <g>


Rdr. Timothy Copple

#22 From: "kcw" <kcw7@...>
Date: Sat Nov 9, 2002 2:07 pm
Subject: Quote for the day (11-9-02)
thrak77
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From St. Maximos the Confessor (Second Century on Love no. 82, The
Philokalia Vol. 2 edited by Palmer, Sherrard and Ware; Faber and Faber pg.
79):

     "Some say that there would be no evil in the created world unless there
were some power outside this world dragging us towards evil. But this
so-called power is in fact our neglect of the natural energies of the
intellect. For those who nurture these energies always do good, never evil.
If this, then, is what you too wish to do, get rid of negligence and you
will also drive out evil, which is the wrong use of our conceptual images of
things, followed by the wrong use of the things themselves."

In His Name,
Keith C. Wilkerson

http://home.earthlink.net/~kcw7/index.html

#23 From: "kcw" <kcw7@...>
Date: Sun Nov 10, 2002 12:09 pm
Subject: Quote for the day (11-10-02)
thrak77
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From Nikolaos P. Vassiliadis (The Mystery of Death, Chapter 20: The Funeral
Service; The Brotherhood of Orthodox Theologians pg. 367):

     "...we do not belong to ourselves, we are not masters of ourselves. We
have God as our Lord and Master and to Him belong both our life and our
death. Therefore, whether we live or whether we die, our first and foremost
purpose is how to gain Christ. He is the center of our life and of our
death; He 'is all, and in all' (Col. 3:11). Since, as St. Paul says, this is
precisely the reason that Christ died and rose again, and again received
life as man, that He may be Lord of both the living and the dead."

In His Name,
Keith C. Wilkerson

http://home.earthlink.net/~kcw7/index.html

#24 From: "kcw" <kcw7@...>
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 12:47 pm
Subject: Quote for the day (11-11-02)
thrak77
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From St. Gregory Palamas (The Homilies Vol. 1, Homily Three para. 1; St.
Tikhon's Seminary Press pg. 22):

     "The person suffering from spiritual famine, being deprived of and
desiring spiritual nourishment, goes round searching for someone with God's
gift of teaching. If he finds someone, he joyfully feeds on the bread of
spiritual life, the word of salvation, which nobody who keeps searching to
the end fails to find. As Christ says, 'Every one that asketh receiveth; and
he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened' (Luke
11:10)."

In His Name,
Keith C. Wilkerson

http://home.earthlink.net/~kcw7/index.html

#25 From: "Karl P Henning" <kph37@...>
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 2:18 pm
Subject: Re: Frank Schaeffer: Diversity In Unity
kph37
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Timothy Copple wrote:

> What I've heard is that Frank Schaeffer (the Protestant one
> that wrote on many moral issues) is the father of Frankie
> Schaeffer (the one who converted to Orthodoxy).

Dear Tim,

Good to see you!

I don't think I have heard all that much about the younger
Schaeffer ... and all I knew of the elder (apart from the books I
read some years ago) was that he was associated with something called
L'Abri fellowship in (I think) Switzerland.

Given the wealth of his father's knowledge (which, I think, was not
knowledge alone, but tinged with some wisdom) it does not surprise me
at all that his son turned to Orthodoxy ... it seems to me that
earnest and honest Protestants must inevitably fold into either
Catholicism or Orthodoxy.

Pax Christi tecum,
~Karl

#26 From: tony c <tcom@...>
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 3:31 pm
Subject: Re: Frank Schaeffer: Diversity In Unity
tcom@...
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>it seems to me that
>earnest and honest Protestants must inevitably fold into either
>Catholicism or Orthodoxy.

...and hopefully Catholics and Orthodox will all fold into the Church
someday. Which is why I subscribed to this list.  :)

-tony cominsky
-boston, ma

#27 From: "Karl P Henning" <kph37@...>
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 4:12 pm
Subject: Re: Frank Schaeffer: Diversity In Unity
kph37
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Tony wrote:

> ...and hopefully Catholics and Orthodox will all fold
> into the Church someday. Which is why I subscribed
> to this list.  :)

Good morning, Tony!

Perhaps I am not the only one who looks forward to any elaboration
you might offer upon this cryptic statement? :-)

> -boston, ma

Ah, yes! -- the Town Which the Phrase "In My Opinion" Built :-)

Pax Christi tecum,
~Karl (who works on Post Office Square, even on Veterans Day ....)

#28 From: tony c <tcom@...>
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 6:18 pm
Subject: The Proof is in the Saints
tcom@...
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>  > ...and hopefully Catholics and Orthodox will all fold
>>  into the Church someday. Which is why I subscribed
>  > to this list.  :)
>
>Perhaps I am not the only one who looks forward to any elaboration
>you might offer upon this cryptic statement? :-)

It's just my way of saying that the separated Apostolic Churches have
to get it together in re-disovering our original unity that, although
ruptured, still exists in an imperfect temporal sense as well as a
more perfect metaphysical sense.

My resoning is summed up thus: the proof is in the saints. As a Roman
Catholic I have no doubt that, for example, Elder Porphyrios (a Greek
Orthodox) and St. John of Kronstadt and St. Silouan (Russian
Orthodox) are saints. The Apostolic Churches produce saints. Our
priesthood is real, our sacraments are real and bestow grace, and our
traditions foster holiness of a degree that is not found within
Christian churches separated from the Tradition.

Orthodoxy played a major role in my re-discovery of the Roman Church
that I abandoned. It was both a reinforecement and a compliment to
what I knew.

The fragmentation of the Church (the Body of Christ as my good friend
St. Paul says) weakens the proclamation of the Gospel to a world in
desperate need of Christ. And the fragmentation allows people to
elevate evolved traditions to the level of Tradition. The latter I
see as a function of language and local custom in particular. This is
the sin of the Pharisees, of which we should be ever watchful.

My hope for unity lies w/ the Holy Spirit, and in a more distilled
sense, the prayers of the All Holy Mother of God. The time has come
for us to lower our voices to hear the voice of the Shepherd, and bow
our heads so that the Head of the Body, Jesus Christ, can be
recognized in our midst.

So, in summary, what I'm saying is that the saints that are found
withing our traditions point to the fact that none of the Apoltolic
Churches are completely without the grace of the Holy Spirit. And
that the differences which keep us apart, though important, may not
be as important as we make them out to be.

Anyway, that's how it looks to me.

-tony cominsky

#29 From: "rmichaelzachary1" <rmichaelzachary1@...>
Date: Tue Nov 12, 2002 2:33 am
Subject: Re: Frank Schaeffer: Diversity In Unity
rmichaelzach...
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Honestly now, without venturing into polemics, is "branch theory" an
official and accepted ecclesiology here?!  Can this posting below be
a breach of guidelines?  I for one, being a Traditionalist Orthodox
Christian, view "branch theory" as one of the sickest symptoms of the
pan-heresy of ecumenism.  As an Orthodox member of this group, I hope
future postings will be more sensitive and less offensive.
Orthodoxia I Thanatos!
Rostislav Mikhailovich Malleev-Pokrovsky


--- In Irenikon@y..., tony c <tcom@w...> wrote:
> >it seems to me that
> >earnest and honest Protestants must inevitably fold into either
> >Catholicism or Orthodoxy.
>
> ...and hopefully Catholics and Orthodox will all fold into the
Church
> someday. Which is why I subscribed to this list.  :)
>
> -tony cominsky
> -boston, ma

#30 From: Mary Lanser <mel5@...>
Date: Tue Nov 12, 2002 2:53 am
Subject: Re: Re: Frank Schaeffer: Diversity In Unity
anarch16803
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At 02:33 AM 11/12/2002 +0000, rmichaelzachary1 wrote:
>Honestly now, without venturing into polemics, is "branch theory" an
>official and accepted ecclesiology here?!  Can this posting below be
>a breach of guidelines?  I for one, being a Traditionalist Orthodox
>Christian, view "branch theory" as one of the sickest symptoms of the
>pan-heresy of ecumenism.  As an Orthodox member of this group, I hope
>future postings will be more sensitive and less offensive.
>Orthodoxia I Thanatos!
>Rostislav Mikhailovich Malleev-Pokrovsky

Dear Rostislav,

I fear that you have taken offense where none was offered.  All
perspectives are welcome here.  To be expressed.  Perhaps even to be
discussed.

What is not welcome is "shedding blood" over them.

The outline of a model for union that you proposed to me privately, may be
quite odious to some, and you recognized and commented upon that in your
note to me.  I said that you may post it in any event for it is indeed your
perspective and your firm belief in what is good and right and true.  I was
and am prepared to support your right to express that perspective whether
or not I believe it to be correct, right or good.  I ask that you afford
all others the same indulgence that I have offered you, whether you ever
make use of it by posting your proposal or not.  I never promised Irenikon
to be easy, merely possible....mary

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