I've just posted a Roland CAMM-3 PNC-3100 on ebay.  This is a great
machine, capable of very precise work in a wide variety of materials
including aluminum, copper, brass, hard and soft wood, and acrylics.
The maximum cutting area is 9-13/16" X 5-7/8" X 5-7/8", or 250mm X
150mm X 150mm.  The spindle is adjustable from 3,000 - 8,000 rpm.
The mechanical resolution is 0.00125mm and the software resolution is
0.01mm.  This allows for extremely fine reproduction of detail.


Please take a look. If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.

Kim
kim@...

Can't see this - please can you clarify how to search?  Which country is
this posted in?



Nigel Lawton



-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Galibert [mailto:kim@...]
Sent: 09 November 2004 03:29
To: ModelersCad@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ModelersCad] Roland CAMM-3 PNC-3100 for sale on Ebay




I've just posted a Roland CAMM-3 PNC-3100 on ebay.  This is a great
machine, capable of very precise work in a wide variety of materials
including aluminum, copper, brass, hard and soft wood, and acrylics.
The maximum cutting area is 9-13/16" X 5-7/8" X 5-7/8", or 250mm X
150mm X 150mm.  The spindle is adjustable from 3,000 - 8,000 rpm.
The mechanical resolution is 0.00125mm and the software resolution is
0.01mm.  This allows for extremely fine reproduction of detail.


Please take a look. If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.

Kim
kim@...







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building.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nigel asked:

> Can't see this - please can you clarify how to search?  Which country is
> this posted in?

Here's the link:

http://search.ebay.com/CAMM-3-PNC-3100_W0QQsokeywordredirectZ1QQfromZR8QQsatitle\
ZCAMM-3Q20PNC-3100

It's in the US.

Billy

Billy,



Many thanks, very tempting but I'm not quite ready for this yet.....and its
in the US (I am in the UK)



I am considering a cheaper MAXNC machine.



Nigel Lawton



http://www.geocities.com/nigellawton009/VeeTipper.html
<http://www.geocities.com/nigellawton009/VeeTipper.html>



-----Original Message-----
From: Billy O'Shea [mailto:billy@...]
Sent: 09 November 2004 09:05
To: Lawton,Nigel
Subject: Re: [ModelersCad] Roland CAMM-3 PNC-3100 for sale on Ebay



Nigel asked:

> Can't see this - please can you clarify how to search?  Which country is
> this posted in?

Here's the link:

http://search.ebay.com/CAMM-3-PNC-3100_W0QQsokeywordredirectZ1QQfromZR8QQsat
itleZCAMM-3Q20PNC-3100
<http://search.ebay.com/CAMM-3-PNC-3100_W0QQsokeywordredirectZ1QQfromZR8QQsa
titleZCAMM-3Q20PNC-3100>

It's in the US.

Billy





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building.
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Nigel wrote:

> Many thanks, very tempting but I'm not quite ready for
> this yet.....

Nor am I. :-)

> I am considering a cheaper MAXNC machine.

Not sure what I'll go with yet, but if anyone has a used Roland MDX
for sale on the right-hand side of the Atlantic, I'd be interested.

Billy

The Roland machines are definitely dream machines, especially the larger
ones with the automatic tool changers <drool>. However, they're priced like
dream machines too. :-) The smaller ones have a very limited work area for
the cost. They are also suitable really only for machining plastics, waxes,
renboard etc.

You can also do well for our type of work by getting something like a
Sherline Mill and upgrading it to CNC.

Here's my page on my Sherline mill CNC conversion:
http://www.irritatedVowel.com/Railroad/Workshop/SherlineCNC.aspx

You can do it for cheaper than I did if you have any electronics experience,
or know someone who does, or if you would rather use steppers instead of
servos, or the free CNC software instead of DeskCNC.

Pete
_____________________________________________________
 Pete Brown - Gambrills, MD (Near Annapolis)
 Visit my personal site : http://www.irritatedVowel.com
 (wallpaper, western maryland ry, .net, photography, model rr)

________________________________________
From: Billy O'Shea [mailto:billy@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 9:08 AM
To: ModelersCad@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ModelersCad] Roland CAMM-3 PNC-3100 for sale on Ebay


Nigel wrote:

> Many thanks, very tempting but I'm not quite ready for
> this yet.....

Nor am I. :-)

> I am considering a cheaper MAXNC machine.

Not sure what I'll go with yet, but if anyone has a used Roland MDX
for sale on the right-hand side of the Atlantic, I'd be interested.

Billy

Pete wrote:

> Here's my page on my Sherline mill CNC conversion:
> http://www.irritatedVowel.com/Railroad/Workshop/SherlineCNC.aspx

Nice site!

You mention at one point on this page that you have developed a
Rhino plug-in that allows you to place rivets along a drawn line.
Is this available for download anywhere?

I could really use this in my Rhino work, and I'm guessing that
some other members of this group would find it useful, too.

Billy

I'm still on the run up to machining.  My journey so far is from hand made
patterns for whitemetal casting through resin casting to etching (including
using etched parts for casting patterns).  The next step I plan to take is
into turning - so I plan to buy a simple lathe.  However I would be
interested in hearing from anyone who has added NC to a small lathe as I
anticipate possibly making repeat items for small scale kits (as in
physically small and sold in small volumes).  After turning I hope to move
into NC milling to make casting masters and am building up my knowledge of
these as I go along.  The whole thing is being financed by selling kits and
I anticipate being in a position to buy a lathe within the next 3 months, an
NC mill is probably closer to a year away.  Its 3 years since I started my
journey.  I have found this group very helpful from time to time in building
up my knowledge of what's available and what can be done, and, hugely
importantly, HOW MUCH!  I am an electronics/software engineer and have some
machining experience.



Thanks guys



Nigel Lawton

-----Original Message-----
From: Billy O'Shea [mailto:billy@...]
Sent: 10 November 2004 07:54
To: Pete Brown (YahooGroups)
Subject: [ModelersCad] Rhino plug-in WAS Roland CAMM-3 PNC-3100 for sale on
Ebay




Pete wrote:

> Here's my page on my Sherline mill CNC conversion:
> http://www.irritatedVowel.com/Railroad/Workshop/SherlineCNC.aspx
<http://www.irritatedVowel.com/Railroad/Workshop/SherlineCNC.aspx>

Nice site!

You mention at one point on this page that you have developed a
Rhino plug-in that allows you to place rivets along a drawn line.
Is this available for download anywhere?

I could really use this in my Rhino work, and I'm guessing that
some other members of this group would find it useful, too.

Billy




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building.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Billy

I'll definitely make it available for download once the McNeel finalizes the
Rhino .NET SDK. Right now it is in beta, and changes every few weeks or so.
Those changes mean I need to recompile my stuff to work with it. Also, as it
stands, the code I wrote will only orient the rivets in +Z.

I hope to have some Rhino CAM (toolpath generation) stuff available some
time too. No promises on a timeframe for that, however. The folks at McNeel
are putting some line intersection tests into the SDK based on comments I
had for how I'd like to do some of the work. Great folks there. The
developer support is top notch.

Pete

_____________________________________________________
 Pete Brown - Gambrills, MD (Near Annapolis)
 Visit my personal site : http://www.irritatedVowel.com
 (wallpaper, western maryland ry, .net, photography, model rr)

________________________________________
From: Billy O'Shea [mailto:billy@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 2:54 AM
To: Pete Brown (YahooGroups)
Subject: [ModelersCad] Rhino plug-in WAS Roland CAMM-3 PNC-3100 for sale on
Ebay


Pete wrote:

> Here's my page on my Sherline mill CNC conversion:
> http://www.irritatedVowel.com/Railroad/Workshop/SherlineCNC.aspx

Nice site!

You mention at one point on this page that you have developed a
Rhino plug-in that allows you to place rivets along a drawn line.
Is this available for download anywhere?

I could really use this in my Rhino work, and I'm guessing that
some other members of this group would find it useful, too.

Billy

If one is really pinching pennies, steppers are also easier to scrounge. I
once did a suburban school district the favor of hauling away nine matching
Apple dot matrix printers, each with the same three assorted steppers in
it. Good solid ones, much bigger than you find in an inkjet.

At 12:57 PM 11/10/04 +0000, Pete wrote:
>You can also do well for our type of work by getting something like a
>Sherline Mill and upgrading it to CNC.
>
>Here's my page on my Sherline mill CNC conversion:
>http://www.irritatedVowel.com/Railroad/Workshop/SherlineCNC.aspx
>
>You can do it for cheaper than I did if you have any electronics experience,
>or know someone who does, or if you would rather use steppers instead of
>servos, or the free CNC software instead of DeskCNC.

> Thanks Billy

> I'll definitely make it available for download once the McNeel finalizes the
> Rhino .NET SDK. Right now it is in beta, and changes every few weeks or so.
> Those changes mean I need to recompile my stuff to work with it. Also, as it
> stands, the code I wrote will only orient the rivets in +Z.

Thanks, Pete.

I'll look forward to that!

> I hope to have some Rhino CAM (toolpath generation) stuff available some
> time too. No promises on a timeframe for that, however. The folks at McNeel
> are putting some line intersection tests into the SDK based on comments I
> had for how I'd like to do some of the work. Great folks there. The
> developer support is top notch.

Sounds good. I have a number of Rhino plug-ins already, but none that
are specifically modelling-oriented. I think there'd probably be quite a
bit of interest in this group.

Billy

Oh yes indeed.  I have found that printers are a fantastic source of materials,
Steppers, gears, shafts, even sensors and LED's.  My students producing
some wonderful robotic projects using these as a principle source.

Dave M.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Tom E Arnold
   To: ModelersCad@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 1:56 PM
   Subject: Re: [ModelersCad] Digest Number 728


   If one is really pinching pennies, steppers are also easier to scrounge. I
   once did a suburban school district the favor of hauling away nine matching
   Apple dot matrix printers, each with the same three assorted steppers in
   it. Good solid ones, much bigger than you find in an inkjet.


   ---
   Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
   Version: 6.0.779 / Virus Database: 526 - Release Date: 19/10/2004

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings.  Just joined you so heres some info.

Retired Computer Aided Engineer, (Robotics,CNC,CAD)

Pre retirement was an instructor at my local college.

Current interests include Model Railway Signalling both Mechanical and
Modern Electronic, Model Shipbuilding (pre 1850)

Running AutoCAD R14 and 2000, DesignCAD 3000 and AlphaCAM. Awaiting
delivery of an EMCO desktop CNC Milling Machine.

Hope I can help and learn from this list.

Dave M.

A very merry solstice to all ...

http://www.oshea.dk/merrychristmas.htm

(Modelled in Rhino ;-))

Billy

I am using 3D laser scan to create cad drawings.  Still learning the
software.  "PolyWorks", is anyone familiar with this s/w?

Very nice!



A happy one to you too



Pete



_____________________________________________________
  Pete Brown - Gambrills, MD (Near Annapolis)
  Visit my personal site : http://www.irritatedVowel.com
  (wallpaper, western maryland ry, .net, photography, model rr)



   _____

From: Billy O'Shea [mailto:billy@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 3:18 PM
To: ModelersCad@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ModelersCad] Season's greetings




A very merry solstice to all ...

http://www.oshea.dk/merrychristmas.htm

(Modelled in Rhino ;-))

Billy





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi all, by now several members of this list have bought and used the
Micro Mark system.  I would like to hear the reviews.  I checked  it
out on the Micro Mark website and the price doesn't seem bad. but the
.005 thickness of brass is pretty limiting.  I would think .016 would
be more realistic.  Also, I was wondering if buying a home office
(hobby) laminator may also do the job.  These are available for under
$50 at a lot of home office supply stores.  Are there generic terms
for the laminator sheets and poto resist that Micro Mark sells?  Can
these be purchased at photo supply or home office stores?
Thanks and regards,  Vic Bitleris

Just a general comment: I ordered the kit, but as I live in
Europe they are not allowed to send me the chemicals (probably
some anti-terrorist law or something). They were willing to
send me the kit minus the chemicals but *at the same price*.

So I said no thanks.

Billy

Hi All.

Today I had a chance to try out what I assume is a new formula of Alumilite
black. Carol from Alumilite sent the sample in response to my query about
the formulation and the old purple color. The sample came pre-mixed with the
pigment. I'm used to a color change, so I jumped a gun while mixing, so the
cure was slow. Otherwise this worked really well. I have not tried mixing it
with white pigment or anything along those lines to test a gray formulation.

In the photos below, the piece is approximately 1" wide by .020" thick at
the thinnest part (the majority of the piece). I poured the resin directly
into the Freeman Wax mold I made on my CNC'd sherline. The scratches and
tooling marks are my own fault, so please ignore them. Also ignore the
rivets are missing on the casting; that's also my fault - I'm still learning
how to do things correctly :-)

<http://www.irritatedVowel.com/Railroad/Workshop/CNCAndCasting.aspx>

(if that wraps, go to <http://www.irritatedVowel.com/Railroad/> and select
"Workshop" and then "CNC and Casting" from the left menu.)

As an aside, Freeman Machinable Wax stands up quite well to the Alumilite
curing. I haven't yet tried a larger casting (which would generate more
heat), but this small casting worked fine. There was no softening of the
mold or any other problems.

Pete

_____________________________________________________
  Pete Brown - Gambrills, MD (Near Annapolis)
  Visit my personal site : http://www.irritatedVowel.com
  (wallpaper, western maryland ry, .net, photography, model rr)

Greetings All,

	 I sell a presensitized K&S brass sheets with both sides
laminated with negative acting resist.  I have 0.010" and 0.005"
thickness' available for $10 each, postpaid.  I can also anyone
who is interested, a .pdf of my etching process.  This uses
locally available chemicals in a tank fitted with aquarium
bubblers and heaters.  This is how I create my commercial
products.

Michael Watnoski
Free State Systems

bitlerisvj wrote:
>
> Hi all, by now several members of this list have bought and used the
> Micro Mark system.  I would like to hear the reviews.  I checked  it
> out on the Micro Mark website and the price doesn't seem bad. but the
> .005 thickness of brass is pretty limiting.  I would think .016 would
> be more realistic.  Also, I was wondering if buying a home office
> (hobby) laminator may also do the job.  These are available for under
> $50 at a lot of home office supply stores.  Are there generic terms
> for the laminator sheets and poto resist that Micro Mark sells?  Can
> these be purchased at photo supply or home office stores?
> Thanks and regards,  Vic Bitleris
>
> ModelersCad: We're technical folks but we're still having fun model building.
> Small tip: If you change the topic, change the subject line for your message
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Sure, I would love to see the PDF.  I just found out that the etchant Radio
Shack sells is no longer available at the stores.  I am not sure if they can
order it or not.  However, there are websites available that do sell the
stuff.  I still haven't found any positive photoresist yet.
Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris
Raleigh, NC



>From: Michael Watnoski <freestatesystems1@...>
>Reply-To: ModelersCad@yahoogroups.com
>To: ModelersCad@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [ModelersCad] Micro mark etch system
>Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 20:27:34 -0500
>
>Greetings All,
>
> I sell a presensitized K&S brass sheets with both sides
>laminated with negative acting resist.  I have 0.010" and
0.005"
>thickness' available for $10 each, postpaid.  I can also anyone
>who is interested, a .pdf of my etching process.  This uses
>locally available chemicals in a tank fitted with aquarium
>bubblers and heaters.  This is how I create my commercial
>products.
>
>Michael Watnoski
>Free State Systems
>
>bitlerisvj wrote:
> >
> > Hi all, by now several members of this list have bought and used
the
> > Micro Mark system.  I would like to hear the reviews.  I checked
it
> > out on the Micro Mark website and the price doesn't seem bad. but
the
> > .005 thickness of brass is pretty limiting.  I would think .016
would
> > be more realistic.  Also, I was wondering if buying a home office
> > (hobby) laminator may also do the job.  These are available for
under
> > $50 at a lot of home office supply stores.  Are there generic
terms
> > for the laminator sheets and poto resist that Micro Mark sells?
Can
> > these be purchased at photo supply or home office stores?
> > Thanks and regards,  Vic Bitleris
> >
> > ModelersCad: We're technical folks but we're still having fun
model building.
> > Small tip: If you change the topic, change the subject line for
your message
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Hi Victor,

	 I am sending the pdf off list.  The Radio Shack etchant is very
uneconomical for etching brass.  I use the dry powder in one
pound packages which mix up to one gallon.  This is enough to
etch 3 sheets of 0.010" brass with a lot of open area, like
fences.  I order mine from Electronix Express in New Jersey,
phone 1-800-972-2225, http://www.elexp.com.  Their current price
for item 03ER21 is $7.75 ea or $7.21 ea @12 or more.  Call and
request a catalog with your order.  They have other supplies for
making PCBs that are useful.

Michael Watnoski
Free State Systems


Victor Bitleris wrote:
>
> Sure, I would love to see the PDF.  I just found out that the etchant Radio
> Shack sells is no longer available at the stores.  I am not sure if they can
> order it or not.  However, there are websites available that do sell the
> stuff.  I still haven't found any positive photoresist yet.
> Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris
> Raleigh, NC
>

Hi Pete:

You are off to a great start. That front you did looked mighty fine. We'll
have you building us a "real" loco before long. LOL



John


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> <http://www.irritatedVowel.com/Railroad/Workshop/CNCAndCasting.aspx>

Hi Pete -

Very nice! I'm a long way behind you in the learning process, so I've
bookmarked your page. :-)

One problem here in Denmark is that I can't seem to find casting wax
anywhere. If anyone knows of a good European outlet, I'd be grateful
to hear about it.

Billy

Thanks John.

Once I work on polishing the molds, and tighten up my tool changing process
(I have some ideas on both), I think I'll be ready to go :-)

Pete

_____________________________________________________
 Pete Brown - Gambrills, MD (Near Annapolis)
 Visit my personal site : http://www.irritatedVowel.com
 (wallpaper, western maryland ry, .net, photography, model rr)

________________________________________
From: proscalebrass@... [mailto:proscalebrass@...]
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 3:41 PM
To: ModelersCad@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ModelersCad] Casting using molds created via CNC


Hi Pete:

You are off to a great start. That front you did looked mighty fine. We'll 
have you building us a "real" loco before long. LOL

John

The wax I use is by Freeman, and is a machining wax.

Casting wax (for lost wax casting) is a bit different.

I'm not sure where you'd find either locally, but you can almost certainly
have it shipped overseas from the US if you want. The decline in the US
dollar might not make that as bad a prospect as it once was.

Pete

_____________________________________________________
 Pete Brown - Gambrills, MD (Near Annapolis)
 Visit my personal site : http://www.irritatedVowel.com
 (wallpaper, western maryland ry, .net, photography, model rr)

________________________________________
From: Billy O'Shea [mailto:billy@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 1:56 AM
To: Pete Brown (YahooGroups)
Subject: Re: [ModelersCad] Casting using molds created via CNC


> <http://www.irritatedVowel.com/Railroad/Workshop/CNCAndCasting.aspx>

Hi Pete -

Very nice! I'm a long way behind you in the learning process, so I've
bookmarked your page. :-)

One problem here in Denmark is that I can't seem to find casting wax
anywhere. If anyone knows of a good European outlet, I'd be grateful
to hear about it.

Billy

In a message dated 1/12/2005 1:33:42 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
ModelersCad@yahoogroups.com writes:

One  problem here in Denmark is that I can't seem to find casting wax
anywhere.  If anyone knows of a good European outlet, I'd be grateful
to hear about  it.



Billy, have you checked to find any Lapidary, or jewelry making  suppliers?
If there are any, they will either supply casting waxes, or can  tell you
where to get them.  Or any lapidary magazines that have  advertisers for europe?
At least here in New Mexico, they are both places as a source of casting
waxes of all kinds.  You might want to go online and contact Rio Grande
http://www.riogrande.com/ , they have a very  large catalog, and are a mail
order
supplier.  See if they can ship to you  and also get there catalog.
Bill
New Mexico


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi modelers.  (I also posted this to the brass loco builders group for
ideas.) I am planning on doing a photo etch of a tender wrapper (in HO
1/87th) and rather than using the old Mel Thornburgh method of
punching (embossing) the rivets.  I plan on using Intellicad, an
Autocad lookalike and am hoping someone on this list can give me
guidance as to the size of rivets.  That is how big should the printed
ones be.  Also, since I may use feet and inches and scale down to
1/87th for printing.  If I do use feet/inches, how many inches should
a rivet be.  I know that in real life, they were about one and a half
inches, but this may be too small for HO scale model size.  Also
looking for real life size in case I just make the image real HO size.
  I would guess about .030? I am open to all suggestions.
I will also be coming back to ask the best way to do the tender coal
box S curves in CAD.
Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

Hi Vic

Rivets really varied in size. 1 1/2" is actually a very large rivet. Many
have heads that are only 5/8". You don't want the rivets to jump out at you
as oversized, so go with as close to scale as you can. One way to do this
would be to take a photo of the tender you are doing, deskew it so it is
parallel to the camera, and then lay your CAD drawing over it. You should be
able to get an idea of the rivet size that way.

In HO, I have done rivets as small as 0.005" using my mill, which would come
out to just under half an inch in size. Those are a good size for reasonably
matching, for example, the rivets on a Walther's troop sleeper.

Since you have CAD, you'll want to reduce it to 1:87.1 later. That's a
factor of 0.011481056. Keep in mind that you want to use as straight a paper
path as your printer will allow. All lasers and inkjets distort what they
print, but the worst offenders are typically the ones that curl the paper
back up and out the front. If you have a setting to run it straight through
(for thick stock like envelopes, usually), use that. Professional etchers
use expensive typesetting/printing machines that have far less distortion.

I assume you will do the tender wrapper in two or more pieces. If so, try
not to stick the seams in the corners. It is very difficult to get the
correct bend in them without a little bit of overlap. One common thing I've
seen done is to put the seam at the very back center of the tender.

Pete

_____________________________________________________
 Pete Brown - Gambrills, MD (Near Annapolis)
 Visit my personal site : http://www.irritatedVowel.com
 (wallpaper, western maryland ry, .net, photography, model rr)

________________________________________
From: bitlerisvj [mailto:bitlerisvj@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 1:01 PM
To: ModelersCad@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ModelersCad] Photoetching rivets in tender wrapper


Hi modelers.  (I also posted this to the brass loco builders group for
ideas.) I am planning on doing a photo etch of a tender wrapper (in HO
1/87th) and rather than using the old Mel Thornburgh method of
punching (embossing) the rivets.  I plan on using Intellicad, an
Autocad lookalike and am hoping someone on this list can give me
guidance as to the size of rivets.  That is how big should the printed
ones be.  Also, since I may use feet and inches and scale down to
1/87th for printing.  If I do use feet/inches, how many inches should
a rivet be.  I know that in real life, they were about one and a half
inches, but this may be too small for HO scale model size.  Also
looking for real life size in case I just make the image real HO size.
I would guess about .030? I am open to all suggestions.
I will also be coming back to ask the best way to do the tender coal
box S curves in CAD.
Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

At 06:00 PM 1/12/2005 +0000, you wrote:


>Hi modelers.  (I also posted this to the brass loco builders group for
>ideas.) I am planning on doing a photo etch of a tender wrapper (in HO
>1/87th) and rather than using the old Mel Thornburgh method of
>punching (embossing) the rivets.  I plan on using Intellicad, an
>Autocad lookalike and am hoping someone on this list can give me
>guidance as to the size of rivets.  That is how big should the printed
>ones be.  Also, since I may use feet and inches and scale down to
>1/87th for printing.  If I do use feet/inches, how many inches should
>a rivet be.  I know that in real life, they were about one and a half
>inches, but this may be too small for HO scale model size.  Also
>looking for real life size in case I just make the image real HO size.
>  I would guess about .030? I am open to all suggestions.
>I will also be coming back to ask the best way to do the tender coal
>box S curves in CAD.
>Thanks and regards, Vic Bitleris

Hi Vic;

Most rivet heads are smaller; for instance a 5/8 dia rivet has a head just
under 1.125 inches in diameter. I doubt that any tender rivets were bigger
than that. If you could be more specific on what tender you are building,
perhaps I could be more helpful.

A good thing about etching the rivets is that you can easily space them
closely together. It is difficult to get punched rivets close enough
together for tender applications. On the other hand, it is difficult to
etch a rivet that has the depth of a punched rivet. It's been my experience
that the etching method produces results that look very nice.

In my opinion, it is very important that the model rivets are close to
scale size.

I always draw in real inches and resize the drawing to HO scale.

Al Welch