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#2929 From: sri venkat <ahvenkitesh@...>
Date: Wed Jan 6, 2010 7:12 pm
Subject: An invisible revolution in rural India 		viji123
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126258063197814415.html#printMode

An Invisible Revolution in Rural India


By MADHUKAR SHUKLA

Mahua Devi is a petite woman in her early twenties. She cycles through 10 to 12 villages of the Koraput district in Orissa everyday.

"I help these women keep their accounts," she tells me as we walk towards a group sitting in the shade under a tree.

When she says "these women" she is referring to one of India's millions of self-help groups, or SHGs. Each group has 15 to 20 women who pool their tiny savings of only 5 rupees to 10 rupees at a time. They use the money to give loans to members for income-generating investments like chickens, seeds or goats. The interest on the loans then adds to their savings pool.

Driving from the nearest city to the village, I don't see any bank branches. Even if there is a branch, it's unlikely it would be equipped to open even simple savings accounts for these women, given their meager savings, lack of assets and inability to read or write. For most of the village women the SHG is the only bank they have ever had.

Ms. Devi keeps the accounts for 20 groups, for which she gets a commission of 2% of the value of all the transactions. "On average, I earn about 5,000 rupees per month," she tells me.

That, I quickly calculate, works out to 250,000 rupees in cash transactions per month - an amazing economic engine, silently working in one of India's poorest regions.

Self help groups are a transformational phenomenon which has swept the Indian countryside over the last decade and a half. The groups are India's own social innovation. In a country where almost two-thirds of the population have no access to formal financial services, SHGs are a unique route to financial inclusion, increasing incomes and helping build productive assets among the poor.

Though similar groups were promoted by many non-government organizations in the 1980s the turning point of the SHG movement was a pilot project by the National Bank for Agricultural and Rural Development (NABARD) in the early 1990s.

Despite India's network of around 30,000 bank branches in rural areas, a majority of the poor still remained outside the fold of the formal banking system. NABARD studies showed this was because existing bank policies, systems and products were not aligned to meet the financial needs and constraints of the poor. What the poor can earn and save varies widely each day. Meanwhile their tiny savings – as little as 50 rupees per month - make providing banking services to them too expensive for banks.

“The self help groups have gone beyond financial inclusion and become a platform to provide a voice to a marginalized section of society.”

To bridge this gap, NABARD and a group of NGOs started a pilot project o 500 groups of women to be used a vehicle for financial intermediation through its SHG-Bank Linkage Program. Typically, these were informal groups of up to 20 women, who would meet regularly and pool their savings.

After saving for six months and proving the group had developed the required fiscal discipline through consistent savings, on-time loan payments and maintaining records the group becomes eligible to be "linked" to the local bank branch. The innovation here was that the group, rather than the individuals in it, could open an account with the bank and use that account to save and take loans.

The pilot was a remarkable success and within a year more than half of the first groups had become eligible for the bank-linkage.

Even more impressive was the fact that 90% of the loan payments were on time and there were no defaults. The success of this pilot project sparked the SHG movement which has been an unparalleled, albeit under-reported, revolution in financial inclusion.

The number of bank-linked SHGs crossed 10,000 in five years. By 2004, there were more than one million groups with their own bank accounts. By the year ended this March, the number of groups had grown to about 4.7 million, touching 59 million rural families through their members. Meanwhile, the average loan size per group has increased from 1,137 rupees in 1992 to 74,000 rupees this year. That shows the women's rising capacity to manage, utilize and pay back loans.

So is everything fine with the SHG movement? Not entirely.

According to one 2006 study (EDA Rural Systems and Andhra Pradesh Mahila Abhivruddhi Society's "Self Help Groups in India: A Study of the Light and Shades") the groups still suffer from many inadequacies. For instance, the study found that a large proportion of SHG members remained poor even after being in the groups for seven years. Another report (Access Development Services' "Microfinance in India: The State of the Sector Report 2009") underlined the popularity of SHGs has so far been a regional phenomenon tilted towards the southern and eastern states of India.

In spite of such inadequacies, however, self help groups have emerged as a critical vehicle for creating social equity and empowerment.

I once sat with women from three SHGs in the community hall of Madanpur in Haryana. The women had assembled for a workshop on "legal literacy" organized by a Delhi NGO. There was jubilation in the air and the village women were talking animatedly.

"We got the license of the local liquor shop stopped yesterday," one of the members told me with glee. "It was a drain on us because the men-folk would squander away their earnings, spoil their health, and often physically abuse us. This time we protested and kept the liquor license from being renewed."

The self help groups have gone beyond financial inclusion and become a platform to provide a voice to a marginalized section of society. Some SHGs have become forums for women to discuss everything from health and sanitation to legal rights and human trafficking. They are also being used to promote education and skill building. The groups are so respected now that they have been called upon to implement government and donor-driven programs such as the mid-day meal program for school children and HIV/AIDS awareness campaigns.

Between 2006 and 2008, more than 600,000 new self help groups were linked to banks. Assuming an average group size of around 13 or 14 members, that means more than 400 women are joining a SHG every hour!

Now if that's not a revolution, then what is?


—Madhukar Shukla is a professor of organizational behavior and strategic management at the XLRI School of Business & Human Resources in Jamshedpur.

 


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#2928 From: Parvez Jamasji <parvez1942@...>
Date: Wed Jan 6, 2010 12:41 pm
Subject: Gullible populace feeds on delusions Re : Pragmatic Euphony - 06.01.2010 		parvez1942
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"WAY to Hell is PAVED with Good Intention", if that doesn't work; then pave it with Delusions.
Kashmiriyat or ANY other . . . .yat, was; is & will be, subject to our forte; Delusions
 
Our Hall Mark since independence, neta-babus CAN'T DELVER, they FEED gullible populace,  Delusions,  software super power; Eco super power, with starvation deaths; regional super power.
 
Destination Moon & Mars, movies of 1950s !
Today, is it more tangible than those movies ? 
Time Will Tell, provided our "cutting edge, state of the art; INDIGENOUS technology" is held accountable
 
Media "RISES valiantly to the occasion, Cocooned in it's self serving TRPs; blowing thunder & lightning of "surgical strikes" - aping Bollywood ?
 
P

--- On Wed, 6/1/10, Reet <reet@...> wrote:
From: Reet <reet@...>
Subject: Pragmatic Euphony
To: parvez1942@...
Date: Wednesday, 6 January, 2010, 10:32 AM
 

Bury the Kashmiriyat ghost

Posted: 05 Jan 2010 08:15 AM PST

An alternate model of development and national integration should be propagated by National Conference to replace this outdated and non-existent political slogan.
History is the present. That’s why every generation writes it anew. But what most people think of as history is it's end product, myth.~
EL Doctorow
Kashmiriyat. The right-wing Hindu intelligentsia has dismissed it as a bogus concept– the biggest hoax unleashed to hurt the Kashmiri Pandits and protect the Islamists. The Islamic separatist ideologues have interpreted it as an Indian ploy to covet Kashmir by promoting Indian concepts of secularism and nationalism. Hizbul Mujahideen chief Syed Salahuddin has unequivocally stated that they “don’t believe in Kashmiriyatâ€. So finally the believers in Kashmiriyat are some old-fashioned romantics believing in a fuddy-duddy Nehruvian concept; a political slogan which is dusted out and brought to the fore by parties like the National Conference to differentiate themselves from and score political points over the Jamaitis and the right-wing Hindu parties. It means little in practice but in theory, it helps National Conference create an identity for itself the way sloganeering of socialism and secularism does it for Congress party at the national level.
A newsreport in Kashmir Times quotes a recent study by Kashmir University and CROSKY to confirm what has been a lingering suspicion for a few years now — that the young generation of Kashmiris have no idea of this thing called Kashmiriyat.
Sad but true, the young generation of school-going Kashmiris is the least knowledgeable lot of Kashmiri composite culture or “Kashmiriyatâ€; this is what a study conducted by the Sociology Department at Kashmir University in association with CROSKY says.
The study conducted in the high and higher secondary schools of the six major districts of Kashmir valley under the aegis of Prof Bashir Ahmad Dabla, an acclaimed sociologist of the valley points towards the trend of declining Kashmiri composite culture knowledge among the Kashmiris falling in the age group of 16-20 years.
The 20 years of violence, the study observed, is the most significant factor for the erosion of prominent or ideal traits of rich Kashmiri culture such as tolerance of all religions, plurality of various cultures, respect for different ideas and other social ethos. These undesirable social development, have not only distorted the ideal Kashmiri culture but even dehumanized the cultural ethos.
The study further showcases a huge rural and urban divide as far as understanding the Kashmiri culture goes. Srinagar youth, as per the study are less aware of their decades back Kashmiri plural culture history while the youth from districts like Anantnag, Baramulla, Budgam know something or the other about the shared cultural values, which were the hallmark of Kashmiri society two decades back.[Kashmir Times]
Once it has been conclusively proved that Kashmiriyat no longer exists in Kashmir, it is certainly time to revisit, and jettison the concept. In the second decade of twenty-first century, the old Nehruvian concepts of socialism and non-alignment have already been practically consigned to the dustbins of history in this country. Kashmiriyat is destined to meet the same fate sooner rather than later and Omar Abdullah would do well to stop paying lip service to this outdated concept as his defining political slogan now. Mr Abdullah should instead unleash a new model of development-based progressive politics which is focused on integrating Kashmir with other parts of the state, and the state with other parts of India. He should simultaneously look at means to provide greater regional autonomy to Ladakh and Jammu and to devolve political power to districts, blocks and panchayats in the state.
Rather than be constrained and burdened by this ghost from history called Kashmiriyat, the future of the state of Jammu and Kashmir — and Omar Abdullah as a Kashmiri political leader — lies in creating this forward-looking paradigm for the new generation of Kashmiris.
Long live Kashmiriyat. Kashmiriyat is dead. It is time we buried its ghost.
  

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#2927 From: Krishnaraj Rao <sahasipadyatri@...>
Date: Wed Jan 6, 2010 9:43 am
Subject: Send message to Wajahat, PMO & DoPT: Preserve the Law, not personal privileges 		sahasipadyatri@...
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We need to gently remind our Chief CIC and our government that the Law is sacred. Prestige and privileges of individuals must never take precedence over the Law. For this, I dialed 1585 from my landline to dictate these phonograms:

 

MESSAGE NO. 1:

To

Shri Wajahat Habibullah
Chief Information Commissioner
August Kranti Bhavan
Bhikaji Cama Place
New Delhi - 110 066.

 

Dear Sir, you resigned on 20th October. According to legal department of GOI, your resignation was immediate and irrevocable. Kindly oblige by moving on. Good Luck for your next assignment.

 

(Phonogram Cost Rs 48, Customer Code no. PU82)

 

 

MESSAGE NO. 2:

Important tip:

a)     Before dictating the message, state clearly that you want to send one message and one copy, and they will have to give you only one customer code number for this, and charge you for one message, not two.

b)    Please request them to send you a copy by post, and dictate your postal address. For this, the charge will be 80 paise only.

 

To

Dr Manmohan Singh
Prime Minister of India

South Block, New Delhi 110 001.

 

COPY TO:

 

Shri Prithviraj Chauhan,
Minister of State, DOPT
North Block, New Delhi 110 001.

 

Sir, Chief CIC Wajahat Habibullah resigned on 20th October. According to legal department of GOI, his resignation was immediate and irrevocable. Please relieve him with retrospective effect and appoint a successor through a transparent lawful process. Timely action will avert a public crisis of confidence.

 

(Phonogram Cost Rs 80, Customer Code no. PU83)

 

 

 

I humbly urge my fellow activists to send such messages by phonogram, by post and by email.

 

Warm Regards,

Krish

98215 88114


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#2926 From: Parvez Jamasji <parvez1942@...>
Date: Tue Jan 5, 2010 12:34 pm
Subject: Politically VERY INCORRECT but ultimatly INEVITABLE . Re:[snippets]Advice from an Israeli Agent 		parvez1942
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How to control \ avoid :
i) Decapitate the fountain head, the instigators; who extol, exhort & brainwashes the young to do their dirty work (while being safely far from harm's way) - i have cried my self hoarse ! 
 
ii) Laws akin to post WW II, "deporting Nazis; their sympathisers & supporters".
Deport those who's personal preference are above the Law of the Land or
DE ENFRANCHISE THEM. The Very Least !
Never allow them in Europe America & the UK, let alone nurture them at their bosoms; as has been done !
  
iii) Similar to Post WW II SAS action, eliminating - XPD - Nazis; their supporters & sympathisers. 
 
iv) Human Right or Rule of Law violators - Barbarians - have forfeited their Rights to the same ! 
 
V) & . . .  though politically very incorrect at present, but inevitable, ultimately; those who don't or can't control their barbarians are to be assumed as culpable as the Barbarians & punished accordingly. 
 
Thanks for your time.

Best Wishes.

Parvez Jamasji
http://www.geocities.com/siafdu/vc81.html
 
 E     :   parvez1942@...
        :   parvezjamasji@...
 
Tel   : 91-22-2412 1656 > 9 am to 9 pm = GMT + 5 1/2 hrs.
Mob  : 91 - 9820813951 \ 98201 88926
Minoo Mansion, 799 J J Road, Dadar, Bombay - 400 014, India

--- On Tue, 5/1/10, Wg Cdr (Retd) VG Kumar <vgk@...> wrote:
From: Wg Cdr (Retd) VG Kumar <vgk@...>
Subject: [snippets] Advice from an Israeli Agent
To:
Date: Tuesday, 5 January, 2010, 10:18 AM
 
Juval Aviv was the Israeli Agent upon whom the movie 'Munich' was based.
He was Golda Meir's bodyguard, and she appointed him to track down and
bring to justice the Palestinian terrorists who took the Israeli
athletes hostage and killed them during the Munich Olympic Games.

He predicted the London subway bombing on the Bill O'Reilly show on Fox
News stating publicly that it would happen within a week. At the time,
O'Reilly laughed, and mocked him saying that in a week he wanted him
back on the show. Unfortunately, within a week the terrorist attack had
occurred.

Juval Aviv gave intelligence (via what he had gathered in Israel and the
Middle East) to the Bush Administration about 9/11, a month before it
occurred. His report specifically said they would use planes as bombs
and target high profile buildings and monuments. Congress has since
hired him as a security consultant.

Now for his future predictions. He predicts the next terrorist attack on
the U.S. will occur within the next few months.

Forget hijacking airplanes, because he says terrorists will NEVER try
and hijack a plane again as they know the people onboard will never go
down quietly again. Aviv believes our airport security is a joke -- that
we have been reactionary rather than proactive in developing strategies
that are truly effective.

For example:

1) Our airport technology is outdated. We look for metal, and the new
explosives are made of plastic.

2) He talked about how some idiot tried to light his shoe on fire.
Because of that, now everyone has to take off their shoes. A group of
idiots tried to bring aboard liquid explosives. Now we can't bring
liquids on board. He says he's waiting for some suicidal maniac to pour
liquid explosive on his underwear; at which point, security will have us
all traveling naked!

Every strategy we have is reactionary.

3) We only focus on security when people are heading to the gates.

Aviv says that if a terrorist attack targets airports in the future,
they will target busy times on the front end of the airport when/where
people are checking in. It would be easy for someone to take two
suitcases of explosives, walk up to a busy check-in line, ask a person
next to them to watch their bags for a minute while they run to the
restroom or get a drink, and then detonate the bags BEFORE security even
gets involved. In Israel, security checks bags BEFORE people can even
ENTER the airport.

Aviv says the next terrorist attack here in America is imminent and will
involve suicide bombers and non-suicide bombers in places where large
groups of people congregate. (i.e., Disneyland, Las Vegas casinos, big
cities (New York, San Francisco, Chicago, etc.) and that it will also
include shopping malls, subways in rush hour, train stations, etc., as
well as, rural America this time. The interlands (Wyoming, Montana, etc.).
We in Mumbai have had this couple of times at BSE, Air India at Nariman Point etc; etc & in Trains, Buses & Taxis.  

The attack will be characterized by simultaneous detonations around the
country (terrorists like big impact), involving at least 5-8 cities,
including rural areas.

Aviv says terrorists won't need to use suicide bombers in many of the
larger cities, because at places like the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, they
can simply valet park a car loaded with explosives and walk away.

Aviv says all of the above is well known in intelligence circles, but
that U. S. Government does not want to 'alarm American citizens'
with the facts. The world is quickly going to become 'a different
place', and issues like 'global warming' and political correctness will
become totally irrelevant.

On an encouraging note, he says that Americans don't have to be
concerned about being nuked. Aviv says the terrorists who want to
destroy America will not use sophisticated weapons. They like to use
suicide as a front-line approach. It's cheap, it's easy, it's effective;
and they have an infinite abundance of young militants more than willing
to 'meet their destiny'.

He also says the next level of terrorists, over which America should be
most concerned, will not be coming from abroad. But will be, instead,
'homegrown', having attended and been educated in our own schools and
universities right here in the U.S. He says to look for 'students' who
frequently travel back and forth to the Middle East. These young
terrorists will be most dangerous because they will know our language
and will fully understand the habits of Americans; but that we Americans
won't know/understand a thing about them.

Aviv says that, as a people, Americans are unaware and uneducated about
the terrorist threats we will inevitably face. America still has only a
handful of Arabic and Farsi speaking people in our intelligence
networks, and Aviv says it is critical that we change that fact SOON.

So, what can America do to protect itself? From an intelligence
perspective, Aviv says the U.S. needs to stop relying on satellites and
technology for intelligence. We need to, instead, follow Israel's,
Ireland's and England's hands-on examples of human intelligence, both
from an infiltration perspective as well as to pay attention to, and
trust 'aware' citizens to help. We need to engage and educate ourselves
as citizens; however, our U. S. government continues to treat us, its
citizens, 'like babies'. Our government thinks we 'can't handle the
truth' and are concerned that we'll panic if we understand the realities
of terrorism. Aviv says this is a deadly mistake.

Aviv recently created/executed a security test for our Congress, by
placing an empty briefcase in five well-traveled spots in five major
cities. The results? Not one person called 911 or sought a policeman to
check it out. In fact, in Chicago, someone tried to steal the briefcase!

In comparison, Aviv says that citizens of Israel are so well 'trained'
that an unattended bag or package would be reported in seconds by
citizen(s) who know to publicly shout, 'Unattended Bag!' The area would
be quickly & calmly cleared by the citizens themselves.

Unfortunately, India \ America hasn't been yet 'hurt enough' by terrorism for
their government to fully understand the need to educate its citizens or
for the government to understand that it's their citizens who are,
inevitably, the best first-line of defense against terrorism.

Aviv also was concerned about the high number of children here in
America who were in preschool and kindergarten after 9/11, who were
'lost' without parents being able to pick them up, and about our schools
that had no plan in place to best care for the students until parents
could get there. (In New York City, this was days, in some cases!)

He stresses the importance of having a plan, that's agreed upon within
your family, of how to respond in the event of a terrorist emergency. He
urges parents to contact their children's schools and demand that the
schools too, develop plans of actions, just as they do in Israel.

Does your family know what to do if you can't contact one another by
phone? Where would you gather in an emergency? He says we should all
have a plan that is easy enough for even our youngest children to
remember and follow.

Aviv says that the U. S. government has in force a plan, that in the
event of another terrorist attack, EVERYONE's ability to use cell phones, blackberries, etc., will immediately be cut-off, as this is the preferred communication source used by terrorists and is often the way that their bombs are detonated.

How will you communicate with your loved ones in the event you cannot
speak to each other? You need to have a plan.

If you understand, and believe what you have just read, then you must
feel compelled to send this to every concerned parent, guardian,
grandparents, uncles, aunts, whomever. Don't stop there. In addition to
sharing this via e-mail, contact and discuss this information with
whomever it makes sense to. Make contingency plans with those you care
about. Better that you have plans in place, and never have to use them,
then to have no plans in place, and find you needed them.

If you choose not to share this, or not to have a plan in place, and
nothing ever occurs -- good for you! However, in the event something
does happen, and even more so, if it directly affects your loved ones,
then this e-mail will haunt you forever.

Telling yourself after the fact, "I should have sent this to so and so,
but deleted it as so much trash from old Bill Jones, plus, I just didn't
believe it", will not change anything. You were alerted, had the chance
to do something, and instead of erring on the side of caution, you chose
to disregard, if nothing else, a sensible, valuable warning.


The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.

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#2925 From: Krishnaraj Rao <sahasipadyatri@...>
Date: Mon Jan 4, 2010 5:22 pm
Subject: PRESS RELEASE: Irregularities surface in CCIC Wajahat's resignation -- Legal Notice Served to PMO, DoPT today 		sahasipadyatri@...
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Mumbai, 4 Jan 2009: Documents unearthed by Mumbai activist Girish Mittal (mittalgirish@...) though use of Right to Information has revealed major discrepancies in the administration at Central Information Commission. The Chief Central Information Commissioner Wajahat Habibullah, whose resignation is still hanging fire, is being accorded preferential treatment. “His resignation is not being accorded the same legal treatment as that of former Information Commissioner Smt Omita Paul,” pointed out Mr Mittal, who today served legal notice to Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) and Ministry of Personnel & Grievances (DoPT). The notice urges the Union Government to take three steps to set right the wrong:

·        Firstly, give effect to resignation of Shri Wajahat Habibullah as CCIC retrospectively from the exact date and time that it was tendered to the Secretariat of President of India.

·        Secondly, recover the salary and other pecuniary benefits given to Shri Wajahat Habibullah in his capacity as CCIC as it is public money.

·        Thirdly, declare as null and void all decisions taken and Orders pronounced by him in his capacity as Central Information Commissioner after his tendering resignation.

 

The documents cited in the legal notice are part of about 350 pages which surfaced in late November 2009 in response to activist Girish Mittal's RTI application to DoPT. In December 2008, DoPT had denied having such documents, and CCIC Wajahat Habibullah had upheld this denial. In earlier years, PMO, DoPT and CCIC Wajahat had denied such information pertaining to appointment, retirement and resignation of Information Commissioners by citing the Official Secrets Act 1923.

Please read Legal Notice and Enclosures, which are attached.

Warm Regards,
Krish
98215 88114

 

 


3 of 3 Photo(s)

1 of 1 File(s)


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#2924 From: Parvez Jamasji <parvez1942@...>
Date: Mon Jan 4, 2010 4:33 am
Subject: WHY Ossilate between Extremes Re:U.S. and U.K. Shut Embassies in Yemen Over Qaeda Threats 		parvez1942
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WHY do US & UK Oscillate between Extremes - Unjustified Aggression to "cut & run ? ? ?
 
The signals - LOUD &CLEAR to the Barberians is : 
(a) DEFEATED the war against Terrorism
(b) The Islamic barberians are Invincible
(c)  This (numb-skull) Policy ENDANGERS ALL those who fight or intend to fight Terrorism WORLD-WIDE !
 
The Barberians now know what it takes to make US, UK, NATO "cut & run" !
 
1. They can indoctrinate new recrutes  to terrorism the correctness of their Policies & METHODS
 
2.
 
Thanks for your time.

Best Wishes.

 
  E    :   parvez1942@...
        :   parvezjamasji@...
 
Tel   : 91-22-2412 1656 > 9 am to 9 pm = GMT + 5 1/2 hrs.
Mob  : 91 - 9820813951 \ 98201 88926
Minoo Mansion, 799 J J Road, Dadar, Bombay - 400 014, India



--- On Sun, 3/1/10, CLG_News <clg_news@...> wrote:
From: CLG_News <clg_news@...>
Subject: U.S. and U.K. Shut Embassies in Yemen Over Qaeda Threats
To: "CLG News" <clg_news@...>
Date: Sunday, 3 January, 2010, 10:31 PM

News Updates from Citizens For Legitimate Government
03 Jan 2010
All links are here:

U.S. and U.K. Shut Embassies in Yemen Over Qaeda Threats 04 Jan 2010 The United States and Britain shut their embassies in the Yemen capital on Sunday, with the Americans citing unspecified but "ongoing threats by Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula," the regional branch responsible for the failed Christmas Day effort to blow up a U.S. airliner headed to Detroit. The closures came a day after a quiet visit to Yemen’s president by Gen. David H. Petraeus, the American regional commander, who delivered a message from President Obama of support for Yemen’s unity and counter-terrorism efforts.

White House Adviser Briefed in October on Underwear Bomb Technique 03 Jan 2010 White House counterterrorism adviser John Brennan was briefed in October on an assassination attempt by Al Qaeda that investigators now believe used the same underwear bombing technique as the Nigerian suspect who tried to blow up Northwest Airlines Flight 253 on Christmas Day, U.S. intelligence and administration officials tell NEWSWEEK. The briefing to Brennan was delivered at the White House by Muhammad bin Nayef, Saudi Arabia’s chief counterterrorism official. In late August, Nayef had survived an assassination attempt by an operative dispatched by the Yemeni branch of Al Qaeda who was pretending to turn himself in.

Italy aims to introduce body scanners: minister 02 Jan 2010 Italy aims to install full-body scanners at the main airports of Rome and Milan for flights considered at high risk of terrorist attacks, Interior Minister Roberto Maroni said in an interview published on Saturday. Maroni, speaking after last week's failed plot to bomb a U.S. passenger jet, told Corriere della Sera newspaper that he favored the swift introduction of the scanners, which can see through clothing to spot hidden explosives or weapons. [See: Are planned airport scanners just a scam? 03 Jan 2010.]

Those who wish to be added to the list can go here: http://www.legitgov.org/#subscribe_clg and add your name. Those who wish to unsubscribe can go here: http://lists.people-link.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/legitgov. If your email provider has marked this newsletter as spam, please mark it as 'not spam' and do not delete from a spam or 'junk' folder, as such actions trigger false spam complaints against the CLG. If you have any inquiries/issues with your subscription, please write: signup at legitgov dot org.

CLG Managing Editor: Lori Price. Copyright © 2010, Citizens For Legitimate Government ® All rights reserved.


The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.

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#2923 From: Parvez Jamasji <parvez1942@...>
Date: Sat Jan 2, 2010 11:47 pm
Subject: Apathetic 		parvez1942
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Certainly this Email will bounce from the neta's

Perhaps water over a duck's back !
 
. . . . Apathetic political leadership and bureaucracy have made no attempt to understand the intensity of sense of hurt of the soldiers at their continued neglect and deliberate degradation. \\\\\

What goes around COMES around ! 
 
P

Matters Military

Saturday, 2 January, 2010 6:16 PM

From:
 
 
. . . . . As India celebrates 62 years of Independence, one tends to wonder:  what makes nations great?
Why is the US an undisputed world power? Why has Britain remained undefeated for centuries?
Why has India succumbed to foreign rule so often ?
Why is India still struggling with internal dissensions and fissiparous forces ?
What does India lack ? Character ?


A chance meeting with a British army veteran in a train from Edinburgh to London proved highly revealing.
According to him,  the secret of British success lies in the public support and respect extended to the soldiers.


`Soldiers` loyalty to the nation and readiness for the supreme sacrifice are driven less by material considerations and more by an overwhelming urge to earn love and respect of their countrymen.
A grateful nation`s recognition of their contribution to national security acts as the strongest motivator,` he declared.


`Britain never forgets its war heroes. Every major landmark in London is named after distinguished soldiers and not politicians, ` he pointed out proudly. To prove his point further, he recalled,
`Before World War II, it was not uncommon to see placards hanging outside some restaurants in Paris which read `Dogs, lackeys and soldiers not allowed`.
On the other hand, even pregnant women used to get up and offer seats to soldiers in London buses.
When the war broke out, France capitulated in no time while Britain remained undefeated.`


In an article written two days before the swearing-in of US President Barack Obama, his wife Michelle devoted 515 out of 863 words to the soldiers and their families.
`So as I watch Barack take that oath, I`ll be thinking especially about those members of our American family who stand guard across the world and the loved ones who await their safe return... My husband and I are deeply grateful for the sacrifices that these families make to protect all American families. And we join them -- today and every day -- in praying for their loved ones and their safety. They don`t ask a lot in return, just a Washington that understands the challenges they face as part of their extraordinary commitment to our country... My husband understands that commitment, and he will ensure America lives up to its end,` she wrote.


`On Tuesday night, my husband and I will tuck in our daughters like we always do. Their bedrooms will be different, their home unfamiliar. But they will drift off to sleep protected by that same sacrifice that has kept all of our families safe and safeguarded our freedom for generations -- the sacrifice of our men and women in uniform and their families...For that, we could not be more grateful -- or more proud,` she added.


Now let us compare the above with the state of affairs in India. Can anyone recall a similar expression of sentiments by a national figure?
Except for perfunctory platitudes on Independence Day, the Government has singularly failed to show compassion for the soldiers or tried to redress their genuine grievances.
Apathetic political leadership and bureaucracy have made no attempt to understand the intensity of sense of hurt of the soldiers at their continued neglect and deliberate degradation.

What goes around COMES around !

Despite repeated representations, India still does not have a war memorial in the capital to honour independent India`s martyrs.
India wants to ape the West in all sundry aspects, but not in matters that affect the well-being and morale of the armed forces.
The Tomb of the Unknowns at Arlington in Washington, the Arc de Triomphe in Paris and the Cenotaph in London are admired by all Indian visitors.
Yet the absence of a suitable war memorial in New Delhi does not appear odd to them.
 
Surprisingly, it does not even hurt the conscience of the nation.
There is no other country that can be so apathetic to the memory of thousands of soldiers who have laid down their lives for its security.


Our Urban Development Ministry is more concerned with the vestiges of the British rule,  and opposes a war memorial near India Gate in the name of preserving heritage.
India Gate was built in the memory of soldiers who died in World War I during the British rule. India has fought five wars since Independence and over 40,000 soldiers have made the supreme sacrifice.
Opposition to a war memorial on frivolous grounds is an affront to the memory of martyrs and displays shameless insensitivity to the feelings of those who have lost their family members. But then, no political leader or bureaucrat can be faulted for their inability to appreciate these issues as they never send their progeny to the military.


Look at the treatment meted out to India`s tallest military leader,  Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw, the architect of India`s greatest victory ever.
It took the Government decades to determine and release his dues. India has not found him worthy of its highest national honour, the  `Bharat Ratna`. No political leader thought it necessary to attend his funeral.


In Britain and the US, heads of the State with full national leadership would have made it a point to be present to pay a nation`s grateful respects.


Nelson`s Column at Trafalgar Square occupies the pride of place in London. London boasts of numerous statues of military heroes.
No statues of political leaders are seen in the developed countries. India, on the contrary, has not found it necessary to honour Field Marshal Manekshaw`s memory whereas statues of political leaders (many with dubious credentials) dot New Delhi.


It will not be out of place here to recall the speech of President Obama at the Veterans of Foreign Wars Convention at the Phoenix Convention Center on 17 August 2009. He said, `You have fulfilled your responsibilities.
And now a grateful nation must fulfil ours. Whether you've left the service in 2009 or 1949, we will fulfil our responsibility to deliver the benefits and care that you earned.`
He described America`s commitment to its veterans as sacred bonds and a sacred trust Americans are honour bound to uphold.


`You have done your duty - to your fallen comrades, to your communities, to your country.
You have always fulfilled your responsibilities to America. And so long as I am President of the United States, America will always fulfil its responsibilities to you`, he declared.


Contrast the above pledge and assurance with the apathetic  treatment meted out to the ex-servicemen in India. In the recent past, India was witness to the most unfortunate sight of numerous military veterans returning their medals to the President to register their protest against the Government`s indifference to their pleas. Medals earned during active service are the proudest possession of soldiers,  and their being driven to surrender them should have made the Government sit up and take note.


But true to its wont, it remained totally unconcerned and unmoved. Not a single Government leader or official has considered it necessary to talk to the protesting veterans to resolve the issues.
This episode will certainly go down as a dark chapter in the history of Independent India.
WONT BE FORGOTTEN !


India won the Kargil War of 1999 at a huge cost -- 527 officers and soldiers sacrificed their lives while over a 1,000 sustained battle injuries, many maimed forever. Yet, a senior Congress leader, Mr Rashid Alvi,  had the impudence to state that commemoration was not warranted as the war took place due to an intelligence failure of the BJP Government. Every Indian soldier, both serving and retired, was aghast at the brazenness of the logic.


A notion has been deliberately perpetuated that the military must be kept under control through the bureaucracy lest it acquires political ambitions.
Examples of Pakistan and Bangladesh are quoted to implant the fear of a military takeover in the minds of gullible and ignorant political leadership.
A systematic and well planned strategy has been orchestrated to downgrade the military`s standing. The Sixth Central Pay Commission was the latest master stroke.


Although the public at large still holds the military in high esteem, a deliberate media campaign is being orchestrated by some elements with vested interests to show the military in a poor light. Instead of appreciating the military for initiating prompt disciplinary action against defaulters -- handful acts of misdemeanour and indiscretion in a 1.3 million strong organisation -- such cases are sensationalised to paint a negative picture of the services.


Historically, India does not have a culture of valuing its military. That is the reason that every invader succeeded in defeating and enslaving the sub-continent.
If India survives today despite inept political leadership and the self-serving bureaucracy, it is only due to the unquestioned loyalty of the military and enormous sacrifices made by the soldiers.


Denigration of the military always proves fatal in the long run. Any country that discredits the status of its soldiers loses the moral right to expect them to die for its security. Great nations are distinguished by the esteem in which they hold their military.


No nation that stubbornly declines to honour the martyrs, respect the soldiers and care for the veterans can ever aspire to be counted amongst the great nations, slogans like `Mera Bharat Mahan` not withstanding.  

Major General Mrinal Suman, AVSM, VSM, PhD

Where have all our heroes gone? |  More articles by General Suman


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#2922 From: Parvez Jamasji <parvez1942@...>
Date: Sat Jan 2, 2010 5:22 am
Subject: Scary for Aam Aadmi Not for neta-babus - Pragmatic Euphony 		parvez1942
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Pragmatic Euphony  Friday, 1 January, 2010 3:11 PM

From:

. . . . . The enormity of internal security challenges facing the country should be a sobering thought at the start of a brand new year: 2010. \\\\\\\\
 
There is of course a certain semantic opportunism in the claim that there has been “no terror attack†in India for more than a year after 26/11.
 
The South Asia Terrorism Portal database tells us that there have been at least 2,197
terrorism-related fatalities across the country through year 2009 (till December 28)
— with the bulk of these coming from the Maoist conflict, accounting for 977; Manipur, 415; Assam, 389; and Jammu & Kashmir, 373.
Obviously, “terror attack†in this interpretation refers narrowly to Pakistan-backed Islamist terrorist attacks in major urban centres outside Jammu & Kashmir — an interpretation that provides a window into the minds of those who rule India, and their attitudes to what they regard as the country’s `periphery’.
Nevertheless, there is cause to appreciate Home Minister P Chidambaram’s candour in admitting that the absence of even such a `terror attack’ must be credited largely to “dame luck†rather than any extraordinary initiatives by India’s security establishment.[Pioneer]
 
A Scary thought for the Aam Aadmi but NOT for the neta-babus who SAFELY cocoon themselves in NSG Cover. 
 
 P
 
 
 

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#2921 From: Parvez Jamasji <parvez1942@...>
Date: Fri Jan 1, 2010 2:58 pm
Subject: babu oof Fw:[MilitaryVeterans]Hey! I Did NOT say It! 		parvez1942
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--- On Fri, 1/1/10, CK Sharma <seekayess@...> wrote:
From: CK Sharma <seekayess@...>
Subject: [MilitaryVeterans] Hey! I Did NOT say It!
To: "22nd NDA" <22nda@googlegroups.com>, "84th/24th" <84thpc24thnav@googlegroups.com>, "MilVet" <MilitaryVeterans@yahoogroups.com>, "IndVets" <indianveterans@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, 1 January, 2010, 4:15 PM

 
Cicero’s observation on 'Bureaucrats':
A bureaucrat is the most despicable of men, though he is needed as vultures are needed, but one hardly admires vultures whom bureaucrats so strangely resemble. I have yet to meet a bureaucrat who was not petty, dull, almost witless, crafty or stupid, an oppressor or a thief, a holder of little authority in which he delights, as a boy delights in possessing a vicious dog. Who can trust such creatures? 
____________ ______

Be well!!

CK Sharma

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#2920 From: Parvez Jamasji <parvez1942@...>
Date: Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:48 am
Subject: Grow Up sub Continent Fw:[MilitaryVeterans]Grow up and smell the Coffee - An Article in Dawn, Premier Daily in Pakistan 		parvez1942
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Grow Up sub Continent
P
 
How true  ! for India as well.
Bigger country, MORE Problems. Problems SAME !
 
Happy & Healthy  New Year to ALL
 
P

--- On Mon, 28/12/09, Murugan Subbiah <sm532ster@...> wrote:
From: Murugan Subbiah <sm532ster@...>
Subject: [MilitaryVeterans] Grow up and smell the Coffee - An Article in Dawn, Premier Daily in Pakistan
To: Date: Monday, 28 December, 2009, 10:27 PM

An interesting article in Dawn, the premier political daily in Pakistan. The good sign is that the democratic ethos are slowly taking roots in Pakistan. Free Press is an important part of Democracy. Otherwise how do you explain that this Author, however irrelevant he is, has the integrity to say that the Political thinking in Pakistan is juvenile. He says the obvious when he mentions that India would not budge and it is better to forget Kashmir. If you seriously look at the criteria that the Author uses to assess the current thinking in Pakistan and apply the same to India, what do we think about our political behaviour?
After all we both belong to same stock. Read an interesting article on the political situation in Pakistan in the Premier Daily Dawn that is widely popular in Pakistan.
S.Murugan.

By Irfan Husain
Saturday, 26 Dec, 2009
While individuals can indulge in daydreams, nations do so at their own peril. So wake up and smell the coffee. —APP/File Photo
While individuals can indulge in daydreams, nations do so at their own peril. So wake up and smell the coffee. —APP/File Photo
THE late Enid Blyton enriched my childhood with tales of adventure and derring-do, as she did for millions of kids around the world. I am happy to see her Famous Five and Secret Seven series still on sale, an indication that some things, at least, have not changed.
However, I did not associate the author with serious, philosophical views until I came across this quotation attributed to her: “Growing old is compulsory; growing up is optional.†The more I reflected on these words, the more I saw how relevant they were for Pakistan as a nation.
In the 1950s, the constant refrain I heard was how young a state Pakistan was as an excuse and an explanation for the new country’s many failings and shortcomings. Gradually, this mantra has faded as Pakistan grew older, even though things have got worse, not better, with the passage of years.
As I look around, I see many signs of a country that has grown older, but has failed to grow up. For one, we remain too immature as a nation to reflect on where we have gone wrong, and what needs to be done to set matters right. We live from one day to the next, confident in the expectation that generous adults will look after us, no matter what transgressions we commit.
In the event, foreign aid has propped us up, relieving us of the tough decisions we need to take in order to make Pakistan a viable, prosperous state.
Other examples abound. When we see we can’t have something, we tend to throw a tantrum and dig in our heels instead of moving on. For over 60 years, we have been fixated over the Kashmir issue. Whatever the legal rights and wrongs of the matter, the harsh truth is that India is not going to budge, and there is nothing Pakistan can do to change this reality.
Hundreds of billions of rupees and thousands of wasted lives later, we are where we were decades ago. In fact, we have lost whatever diplomatic support we once had. The world is heartily sick of the dispute, and wishes we could just put the matter to rest and move on.
We are aggressive and touchy to the point of paranoia. Take the recent furore over the Kerry-Lugar law as a good example. For weeks, the media and the military were in hysterics over the evil intentions of the Americans who were bent on throwing billions of dollars in our direction.
Pundits and TV anchors fulminated and frothed at the mouth, insisting that somehow ghairat or our national honour had been affronted. Then suddenly, as though a switch had been turned off, this crescendo of irrational argument ceased. What had changed? Probably the dollars had started coming in, and nothing shuts up a needy teenager like a fistful of cash.
Like most young boys, we love playing with toy guns, only in Pakistan’s case, they take the shape of lethal weapons, including nuclear ones. All nations have armed forces and arsenals, but they do not generally take such pride in them. In Pakistan, derelict jet fighters are mounted in public squares; models of missiles decorate parks; and mock-ups of Chagai where our first nuclear tests were conducted, sprout in open spaces.
Kids usually hate being mocked or criticised, and take umbrage at the smallest slight, whether it is real or imagined. So, too, do our leaders. A few months ago, a law was seriously being considered to prevent people from passing around jokes about the president on the Internet, or by SMS. This move drew much derision internationally, and was mercifully dropped.
More often than not, children are intensely self-absorbed, caring little for the needs of those around them. Similarly, our well-to-do tend not to think about the rest of their countrymen, focusing only on their immediate families. And when they do give to charity, they are concerned only about how their alms will buy them a place in heaven. Partly as a consequence of this callousness, poverty continues to stalk the land. Illiteracy, hunger and disease are endemic. Nevertheless, enclaves of obscenely ostentatious wealth flourish amidst a vast ocean of poverty.
Impatience is another attribute of the young. Living only in the present, they want everything now. So, too, do our politicians demand regime change whenever they are not in power. Unwilling to wait for a government to complete its term of office, they plot with the military or the judiciary to overthrow the ruling party so they can grab power. More often than not, the army uses these discontented politicians as levers to upset the political applecart.
This refusal to follow the rules and allow a government to complete its tenure is rife among the media as well. Thus, we can see the feeding frenzy among TV chat show panellists and their hosts in the wake of the NRO judgment that has dealt the PPP government a severe blow. In fact, we can almost see these people salivating at the prospect of more political upheaval.
Like children with a short attention span, we get bored with the same ministers saying the same thing after a year or so. We just cannot understand that above all, we need a period of political stability and tranquillity. And we desperately need a consensus to fight the jihadis who are threatening to tear down the foundations of our state. Despite these dangers, we continue to squabble like kids; far from developing a common front, we are doing everything we can to destroy our political rivals, destabilising the entire system in the process.
Faced with harsh reality, many kids escape into fantasy. We, too, continue nursing dreams of a united Muslim ummah that would be able to take on the hated West. In Pakistan, various extremist groups are committed to restoring Muslim rule over the entire subcontinent.
But while individuals can indulge in daydreams, nations do so at their own peril. So wake up and smell the coffee. Above all, let’s please try and grow up.
HIGHLIGHTS
  • Investing in health
    Healthcare spending remains abysmally low in Pakistan, with rural systems hovering on the brink.
  • American assistance
    For once, the aid flowing into Pakistan has been earmarked for development and not the military.


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--
There is nothing Good or Bad, it is all about Choices ........ So choose wisely.
Don't believe all that you hear and don't say all that you think.
Learn to listen. It is an art.
Not knowing something is normally a milestone on the way to Knowledge.

S.MURUGAN.
AIR CMDE(Retd)
D532, Jalvayu Vihar,
Kalyan Nagar Post,
Bangalore-560043.
Tel No" 080- 23682532.
Mobile: 9343730552.


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#2919 From: Parvez Jamasji <parvez1942@...>
Date: Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:56 am
Subject: - NOT AN EXCUSE Re:[MilitaryVeterans]MILITARY'S MECHANISM 		parvez1942
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. . . . . The military draws its manpower from within the country, where moral standards have fallen, corruption is rampant and there is a climate of loot and plunder, right across the national landscape. \\\\\\\\\
 
An atoll awash in an Ocean of corruption
With our Roll Models 'showing the way ' of new & innovative ways to plunder their OWN 
 
- NOT AN EXCUSE
 
P
--- On Tue, 29/12/09, Krishan K Punchhi <kkpunchhi@...> wrote:
From: Krishan K Punchhi <kkpunchhi@...>
Subject: [MilitaryVeterans] MILITARY'S MECHANISM
To: "AFI Club" <AFIndiaClub@yahoogroups.com>, "indianveterans" <indianveterans@yahoogroups.com>, "milvets militaryveterans" <militaryveterans@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, 29 December, 2009, 4:38 AM

 

From The Tribune, Chandigarh of 29 Dec 2009.

Regards..... ......... Cdr K K Punchhi

 

http://www.tribunei ndia.com/ 2009/20091229/ letters.htm

 

Military’s mechanism

The military draws its manpower from within the country, where moral standards have fallen, corruption is rampant and there is a climate of loot and plunder, right across the national landscape.
The main difference is that this fall in standards is unacceptable in the military. That is how military’s internal mechanism picks out such black sheep (liquor, ketchup, moral turpitude and land scams, etc types) and dishes out exemplary punishment.
As against this what happened to all those DCs in Punjab who had misappropriated Red Cross and Kargil funds, etc and put these to private and personal use? There are unlimited numbers of other cases which are pushed under the carpet. What of SPS Rathore of Ruchika case: 19 years later, a farce!
The self-correcting mechanism is what distinguishes the military from the general rot in the country.
  Brig HARWANT SINGH, (retd), SAS Nagar

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#2918 From: Parvez Jamasji <parvez1942@...>
Date: Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:19 am
Subject: SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY AT IT'S BEST-Media. Re:[makeindiasuperpower]RE:NavNirman-Lesser Indian's SOS [rti-times]Predictions 		parvez1942
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Lets Band together, the Only SURVIVAL TOOL for the Aam Admi - Lesser Indians.
 
This is SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY AT IT'S BEST 
 
Congrats to the Media, it does play crucial roles in bringing justice to Hapless - Lesser - Indians as is witnessed in Jessica Lal's & now Ruchika's case.
There may be more such cases not yet in public domain, as the two above.
 
Media is also doing a great job of pulling us out of the mire of BLIND Superstition by exposing it. 
 
This ought to  be remedied post haste, this IS Headline News & should could & should replace Trivia masquerading as Breaking News.
 
Please provide a link to Bharat Swabhiman for ease of joining for the Janta.
May be the Sarkar - greatest Defaulter - sensing danger to itself - neta-babu-police; will refer to this Band as "EXTREMISTS" or . . . . , to annihilate it. 
 
Thanks for your time.

Best Wishes.

  
E     :   parvez1942@...
        :   parvezjamasji@...
 
Tel   : 91-22-2412 1656 > 9 am to 9 pm = GMT + 5 1/2 hrs.
Mob  : 91 - 9820813951 \ 98201 88926
Minoo Mansion, 799 J J Road, Dadar, Bombay - 400 014, India
 
 
--- On Sun, 27/12/09, jag1ts <jag1ts@...> wrote:
From: jag1ts <jag1ts@...>
Subject: [makeindiasuperpower] RE: NavNirman - Lesser Indian's SOS [rti-times]Predictions
To: NavNirman@yahoogroups.com, "'Milap Choraria'" <milap_choraria@...>, "'Indian Veterans Def'" <indianveterans@yahoogroups.com>, "'Military Veterans Def'" <MilitaryVeterans@yahoogroups.com>, "'Capt Reet Def'" <reet@...>, "'David de Figueiredo Wg. Cdr.'" <figifly@...>, "'Harpendra Singh Sekhon Wg. Cdr.'" <harrysekhon@...>, "'N R Bhatt Wg.Cdr.'" <nr_bhatt@...>, "'V. Rajpal Wg.Cdr.'" <vkrajpal2002@...>, "'Ramesh Mallik Wg.Cdr.'" <mallik_ramesh@...>
Cc: "'Vikki Athavale'" <vatts1998@...>, "'Ragul Athavale'" <rahnissan_ghana@...>, "'Cynthia Stephen Journo'" <cynstepin@...>, "'Urvi Sukul Singh Journo'" <usukulsingh@...>, "'Urvashi Sharma Journo'" <rtimahilamanchup@...>, "'Mumbai 9 TV'" <editormumbai@...>, "'NDTV TV'" <feedback@...>, "'Hum Log TV'" <feedback@...>, "'India Super Power YG'" <makeindiasuperpower@yahoogroups.com>, "'Yuva Jagruti YG'" <yuvajagruti@yahoogroups.com>, "'Better India GOVERNANCE YG'" <betterindia@...>, "'Hum Jaagte Hai Governance YG'" <HumJanenge@...>, "'Studies Zorastrian'" <info@...>, "'World Zor Com Center Directory Zorastrian'" <directory@...>, "'RKB TV'" <info@...>
Date: Sunday, 27 December, 2009, 7:17 PM

 
Dear friends,
 
This email is meant for all honest, well meaning patriotic Indians who feel that our beloved Country is in dire straits (in a mess), which is likely to get worse - unless we all unite and act. Those who are prepared to contribute their time, effort and resources (money) towards the cause of a better India. Those who wish to be part of the solution.
 

Are you one of them?

 
(Only) If so, please read on...
 
Quoting from what appayyasastry marla has written:
 
"Let the House remember this. The Indian political parties and political classes do not represent the Indian masses. It is a delusion to believe that they do. I wish they did.
 Indian politicians have proved that the premonition of Winston Churchill is true. 
 
 Speaking on the eve of Indian Independence Winston Churchill said "Power will go to the hands of rascals, rogues and freebooters. All Indian leaders will be of low caliber and men of straw."
 
Indian politicians have proved that the premonition of Winston Churchill is true. 
   In his magazine 'Harijan' dated 24th May, 1942, Gandhiji wrote, "Under my proposal, they have to leave India in God’s hands – but in modern parlance to anarchy, and that anarchy may lead to internecine warfare for a time or to unrestrained dacoities. From these, a true India will rise in the place of the false one we see".
Further he writes: 
 

The Indians and Indian politicians have proved that the premonition of Winston Churchill is true.   

Gandhiji's prediction of 'anarchy, internecine wars and unrestrained dacoities' is what we see today.  

Now, let us hope for Gandhiji's prediction 

'Rise of a true India ' to become true.   

Friends now I ask, is it enough to hope? Or do we need to do something about it? If so should we do it individualy, in small grups or as a united entity? If as a united entity should we not unite with the largest and most viable option?
 
 Wether we are aware of it oe not the one and only such option is Bharat Swabhimaan. It  already numbers in lakhs - within an year of its creation. Besides the most crucial factor is that it has been created by and is led by PP Swami Ram Dev ji of Patanjali Yog Peeth of Haridwar.
 
To get a better idea please tune into Aastha Channel from 5 am to 7.30 am and 8pm to 9pm daily; also please call or email.
 
 
regards,
jagwant
09779450654
 
If we are not part of the solution ;
We are part of the problem!
 
To become part of the solution please contact sender.
 
--आओ २१वी सदी की नई आज़ादी की लडाई में भाग लें,
 à¤­à¤¾à¤°à¤¤ सà¥à¤µà¤¾à¤­à¤¿à¤®à¤¾à¤¨ से जà¥à¤¡à¤¼à¤•à¤° à¤à¤• नया भारत बनाà¤.


From: NavNirman@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:NavNirman@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Parvez Jamasji
Sent: 26 December 2009 10:08

Paradox of OUR times : A Cry, a SOS rises up from helpless, Hapless Indians to Save their Souls from the Worst, PREDATOR Indians. 

Usurpers & Arrogators of Lesser Indian's Wives, Daughters; Property, even Life. 

Does it surprise, then that there are Separatists, Extremists & people fearing for themselves want to Leave India  ANYWAY they can, to save themselves from the greatest DEFAULTER, Greatest LITIGANT; & the Greatest FREEBOOTER - GOVERNMENT !  

These Freebooters use the FULL FORCE of Police et al, to BLUDGEON the Lessor Indians into SUBJUGATION, to Protect their turf.  

TYRANNY the World didn't see, even in the "dark ages" ! 

Rocket Science is Not needed to understand why these Beneficiaries - neta-babus - want & strive to Weaken the Protectors of Bharat Mata by spreading Lies ""if Fauj is Strong it will take over"" 

THIS state of Lesser Indian is witnessed not only in India but Worldwide, it is REALITY, as PROPHESIED; not heresy. 

Best Wishes. 

 

E     :   parvez1942@yahoo. com
        :   parvezjamasji@ hotmail.com

 

Tel   : 91-22-2412 1656 > 9 am to 9 pm = GMT + 5 1/2 hrs.
Mob  : 91 - 9820813951 \ 98201 88926
Minoo Mansion , 799 J J Road , Dadar, Bombay - 400 014, India
 

 


 

 



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#2917 From: Krishnaraj Rao <sahasipadyatri@...>
Date: Sun Dec 27, 2009 1:51 pm
Subject: Mystery no. 1: Which public authority has CIC Selection papers -- PMO, DOPT or Parliament Secretariat? 		sahasipadyatri@...
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In DoPT’s reply to our legal notice, there is an offer to make available the “minutes of the decision taken by the committee.” Presumably, it means that DoPT is willing to provide minutes of each and every meeting of the PM’s committee that selects Central Information Commissioners. So we should quote this reply and file RTI applications asking for the minutes of each and every meeting, including the one where Omita Paul was selected, and the most recent inconclusive meeting where L K Advani walked out in a huff. Getting the minutes of all the meetings would mean substantial progress in following the paper-trail and solving some mysteries.

With strange contradictions and half-logical reasoning for denial of information, PMO, DOPT and CCIC Wajahat Habibullah have set up a fine paper trail. They have given us four mysteries to solve, namely:

1)      Which public authority holds documents generated while selecting Central Information Commissioners? Our choices are:

(a)                Prime Minister’s Office

(b)               DOPT

(c)                Some little-known secretariat in the Parliament

(d)               None of the above

(e)               All of the above

(f)                 Some of the above

(g)                Other

Based on your reply to the above riddle, you must guess the proper authority to address an RTI application – because, rest assured, they will not direct your application to the proper authority.

2)      Weeks or months before any selection or appointment of CIC actually happens, some events start happening. For example, meetings are called, agenda papers are circulated, inter-department or intra-department letters are written about the need to appoint new CICs in the light of mounting pendency or in response to Chief CIC’s requisitions. At some point, decisions are made for soliciting applications, nominations etc. These decisions are recorded and formalized in minutes of meetings or exchange of correspondence. DoPT is asked to submit a short-list of candidates before a certain date for the consideration of Prime Minister’s selecting committee. Some selection criteria – written or unwritten -- are used for short-listing them. Recommendations and file-notings are made in this decision-making process. With reference to all this, two questions arise:

(a)    Is it legal and justified to classify such documents as “Confidential”?  

(b)   If so classified, can they be denied under Official Secrets Act (OSA) 1923, notwithstanding Section 22 of RTI Act? (By the way, OSA – a remnant of the British era – probably isn’t even an accepted law in Independent India, as it hasn’t been notified in the Gazette of India after Independence.)

 

3)      Assuming that the answers to Question 2(a) and 2(b) are both “Yes”, have the  above-mentioned documents ACTUALLY BEEN CLASSIFIED as ‘confidential’ by PMO? Or are they hanging in limbo, given this government’s policy of ‘Decide Nothing, Deny Nothing, and Say Nothing’?

 

4)      If they have been classified as ‘confidential’, can we at least ask for reasoning under Section 4(1)(d) of RTI Act? Or will they even deny us an explanation for why confidentiality is necessary?

These mysteries arise from the two Second Appeals cited below:

 

A.      22nd Sept 2006: Second appeal of Ms Vishaish Uppal’s RTI Application to PMO, which was later transferred to DOPT.

 

In her RTI application on 22nd Nov 2005, Ms Uppal sought to inspect files, papers etc. relating to the appointment of the CICs and Chief CIC. This application was transferred to DOPT. However, on 13th Jan 2006, Ms Uppal reverted to PMO stating that she had been shown only one file and informed by PIO that files pertaining to the entire selection process are with PMO and not with DoPT.

 

Appellate Authority Sh. Jawed Usmani, Jt. Secy. in the PM’s Office, refused to disclose the information on the ground that the papers in the files relating to the selection of the Chief Information Commissioner and the Information Commissioners have been given the security classification “Confidential” under the Manual of Departmental Security Instructions, 1994 read with the relevant provisions of the Official Secrets Act, 1923 and according to the said Manual, such documents should be addressed to and seen only by those persons who have a direct concern with the subject matter contained therein. The Appellate Authority therefore stated that the Appellant cannot be allowed to inspect said file/document, as these documents are classified “Confidential”. The Appellate Authority had held that as no case having been made out for making any exception under sec. 8(2) of the Act, Ms. Vishaish Uppal could not be allowed to inspect the documents.

 

CCIC WAJAHAT’S CIRCUITOUS REASONING: “The appellate Authority has held that the matter has been classified “confidential” under the Official Secrets Act, 1923. However, in view of the provisions of the Section 22 of the Act “The provision of this Act shall have effect notwithstanding anything inconsistent therewith contained in the Official Secrets Act, 1923, and any other law for the time being in force or in any instrument having effect by virtue of any law other than this Act”, the provisions of Official Secrets Act stands over-ridden. Section 8(2) enables the public authority to disclose information notwithstanding anything in the Official Secrets Act, 1923 or any of the exemptions permissible under Section 8(1), if the public interest in disclosure outweighs the harm to the protected interests. Sec. 8(2) is, therefore, not a ground distinct and separate from what has been specified explicitly under Section 8(1) of the Act for withholding information by the public authority.

 

The Appellate Authority, therefore, cannot withhold this information either on the ground that the information is classified as “confidential” under the Official Secrets Act or under Section 8(2) alone. However, Sec 22 as described above only overrides anything inconsistent with the Right to Information Act, 2005. The Official Secrets Act, 1923 stands neither rescinded nor abrogated. While a public authority may only withhold such information as could be brought within any of the clauses of Section 8(1), it is open to that authority to classify any of these items of information as “Confidential”, thus limiting the discretion of any other authority in respect to these.”

 

Wajahat then concluded: “In this particular case denial of information is under the orders of the Public Authority and it is open to the Public Authority to deny the information provided such denial can be justified under Section 8(1) of the Act. The Prime Minister’s Office will, therefore, re-examine the matter in view of the observations made above within fifteen days of the date of issue of the Decision Notice and it may disclose the information to the appellant, unless of course, the disclosure of the information can be denied or withheld under any of the provisions of the RTI Act, 2005. The Public Authority shall take an appropriate reasoned decision.”

 

[Somebody help me understand the three self-contradictory paragraphs highlighted in blue. To me, it looks like Wajahat sounding judicious while suggesting an escape route to PMO and DOPT for denying the information.

 

But suppose we give Wajahat the benefit of doubt. After all, he ordered PMO to decide one way or another in 15 days. Question is: Did they? Answer is: No. Look at Wajahat’s order seven months later on 16th April 2007, in the case of Milap Choraria’s Complaint. It quotes his earlier order and says, “In light of the above CPIO DoPT may process the present application.” I think Milap did not get the information, and I think Wajahat did not do anything further to help anybody get the information.]

 

B.      22nd December 2008: Second appeal hearing of J S Bhattacharjee’s RTI Application to DoPT.

In his RTI application on 21st July 2007, Bhattacharjee asked commonsense questions such as:

·         Government’s policy/ principle guidelines etc for the collection of names of expected CIC to be sent to the Recommendation Committee for selection

·         Whether names of CIC are collected on ‘pick & choose’ basis or on the basis of the recommendations of Ministers

·         Whether there was a system of “Search Committee” for collecting probable names and how the five names for CIC

·         How the five names for CIC have been finally selected by the Government leaving hundreds of qualified officials

·         Whether the post of CIC is meant only for retired officials

·         Whether the present CIC had applied for the post and if so, the source of his information of vacancy

·         Whether government advertised for the post of CIC and when?

 

DOPT’s standard stonewalling reply was: “Clause (5) and (6) of Section 12 of the Right to Information Act, 2005, prescribe the conditions for appointment to the posts of Chief Information Commissioner (CIC) and Central Information Commissioners (IC). There is no other laid down policy/principle/ guidelines on the subject. Persons for the post of CIC are considered on the basis of conditions contained in above referred provisions of the Act. No other information in the matter is available.”

 

CCIC WAJAHAT’s REASONING FOR UPHOLDING DOPT’S STONEWALLING: “The Committee set up u/s 12 (3) of the RTI Act cannot be deemed to be a Departmental Committee or Departmental Selection Committee. This is a Committee set up through the RTI Act 2005 not by Government but, through the very enactment of this law, by Parliament in order to make recommendations to the President of India on appointment of Chief Information Commissioner and Information Commissioners of the Central Information Commission. The response of the DoPT in this regard is correct in that the Department is only a servicing instrument for this Committee. The reference to the Committee as a Selection Committee by Shri K G Verma, Director in disposing of the first appeal is not to place this Committee in the category of a Departmental Selection Committee but only with reference to its purpose, which is indeed the selection of individuals it considers to be of eminence, which it recommends to the President of India for appointment as Chief Information Commissioner /Information Commissioner. Seen in this context it is quite conceivable that the DoPT, which is the only the servicing organisation, maintains no records of deliberations of this Committee, which the group is not required to maintain if they do in fact exist, other than its recommendations, which CPIO Ms. Zoya agreed before us is a document held by the DoPT.”

 

[Please note that in this second appeal, nobody mentions Official Secrets Act for justifying the denial. Why? My guess is: (a) PMO DID NOT CLASSIFY THE CIC SELECTION PAPERS AS ‘CONFIDENTIAL’ (b) PMO THOUGHT THAT IT WAS LEGALLY & POLITICALLY INADVISABLE TO RESORT TO THE OFFICIAL SECRETS ACT. Therefore, they now denied the same information on a new ground, namely the plea that DoPT is not supposed to be having the records.

 

CCIC Wajahat’s reasoning is like a bikini: What it reveals is very interesting, but what it conceals is vital. He deliberately refrains from asking the key question: IF NOT DOPT, WHICH DEPARTMENT OR SECRETARIAT IS SUPPOSED TO MAINTAIN RECORDS OF DELIBERATIONS?]

The fact that DoPT has replied to our legal notice, and also our other correspondence in the matter of CIC selection, while other departments have forwarded the correspondence to DoPT for replies, suggests that DoPT is the only logical place for the documents, and that the officials are lying when they state that there is no information with them.

Many activists are trying to solve the ‘Mystery of the Missing CIC Selection Papers’. Please apply your mind to cracking this puzzle through RTI applications, public pressure or other methods at your command.

Warm Regards,

Krish

98215 88114

 

 

 

 


Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)
#2916 From: "N C Gupta" <ncgupta38@...>
Date: Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:38 pm
Subject: RE: Solution or Crutch ? Re:[makeindiasuperpower]NavNirman - Lesser Indian's SOS 		ncgupta38
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

I am again attaching my view of INDIA. Now there in no use looking into the past. If we wish to

really become a part of rise of ASEA along with CHINA and JAPAN, we have to change ourselves

faster. Otherwise we will be looking towards CHINA more desperately than USA. Just sitting with

G8/G20 will not solve our problems. We may soon surpass CHINA in population with perhaps as

one of the greatest achievement, giving us more problems than solutions. Let us install Rahul Gandhi

as President of INDIA in 2010. Perhaps this may be a solution to adopt new system of GOVERNANCE.

Something should happen and that too fast, is the real need.

Regards

N.C.Gupta  

 

From: NavNirman@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NavNirman@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Parvez Jamasji
Sent: 27 December 2009 09:45
To: makeindiasuperpower@yahoogroups.com; Milap Choraria
Cc: Yuva Jagruti YG; Better India GOVERNANCE YG; NIRMAN YG; Hum Jaagte Hai Governance YG
Subject: Solution or Crutch ? Re:[makeindiasuperpower]NavNirman - Lesser Indian's SOS

 

 

My response to preceding Email was to Hi Lite  'Milap Choraria', Appayya Sastry Marla; Winston_Churchill & our very Own BAPU's Prophesies


To make AWARE as many as possible, so they aren't 'take in' by delusions; of Indian Economic Proves, that is UNABLE to avoid starvation.

 

Another delusion "Green & white revolution" dal @ Rs100/Kg & milk @ 30/lt  

Despite "Worlds' Best financial wizards" at India's Helm

 

Perhaps & Hopefully your solution may pull India out of it's morass ? 

 

With the World's predictions you quote, providing the crutch ?

 

P 


--- On Sat, 26/12/09, jag1ts <jag1ts@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: jag1ts <jag1ts@yahoo.com>
Subject: [>makeindiasuperpower] NavNirman - Lesser Indian's SOS
To: NavNirman@yahoogroups.com, "'Milap Choraria'" <milap_choraria@yahoo.com>, "'Indian Veterans Def'" <indianveterans@yahoogroups.com>, "'Military Veterans Def'" <MilitaryVeterans@yahoogroups.com>, "'Capt Reet Def'" <reet@kamlafauji.in>, "'David de Figueiredo Wg. Cdr.'" <figifly@hotmail.com>, "'Harpendra Singh Sekhon Wg. Cdr.'" <harrysekhon@hotmail.com>, "'N R Bhatt Wg.Cdr.'" <nr_bhatt@yahoo.com>, "'V. Rajpal Wg.Cdr.'" <vkrajpal2002@yahoo.co.in>, "'Ramesh Mallik Wg.Cdr.'" <mallik_ramesh@hotmail.com>
Cc: "'Vikki Athavale'" <vatts1998@gmail.com>, "'Ragul Athavale'" <rahnissan_ghana@yahoo.co.uk>, "'Cynthia Stephen Journo'" <cynstepin@yahoo.com>, "'Urvi Sukul Singh Journo'" <usukulsingh@hotmail.com>, "'Urvashi Sharma Journo'" <rtimahilamanchup@gmail.com>, "'Mumbai 9 TV'" <editormumbai@tv9.net>, "'NDTV TV'" <feedback@ndtv.in>, "'Hum Log TV'" <feedback@ndtv.com>, "'India Super Power YG'" <makeindiasuperpower@yahoogroups.com>, "'Yuva Jagruti YG'" <yuvajagruti@yahoogroups.com>, "'Better India GOVERNANCE YG'" <betterindia@aol.com>, "'Hum Jaagte Hai Governance YG'" <HumJanenge@yahoogroups.co.in>, "'Studies Zorastrian'" <info@oshihan.org>, "'World Zor Com Center Directory Zorastrian'" <directory@wzcc.net>, "'RKB TV'" <info@rkbshow.com>
Date: Saturday, 26 December, 2009, 7:24 PM

Dear friends,

 

regards,

jagwant

 

If we are not part of the solution ;

We are part of the problem!

 

To become part of the solution please contact sender.

 

--आओ २१वी सदी की नई आज़ादी की लडाई में भाग लें,

 à¤­à¤¾à¤°à¤¤ सà¥à¤µà¤¾à¤­à¤¿à¤®à¤¾à¤¨ से जà¥à¤¡à¤¼à¤•à¤° à¤à¤• नया भारत बनाà¤.


--- On Sat, 26/12/09, ncgupta38@gmail. com <ncgupta38@gmail. com> wrote:

 

But world is predicting that ASEA led by CHINA , JAPAN and INDIA will equate in economy with Europe/USA and Russia by 2048. In India political scenario is going to be led by the present parties only, may be in more fragmented format of many new political parties of dissenters coming up. People are generally happy with growth of India , even in all these odds we are daily crying. Gandhi ji is almost forgotten.

Our intelligent people though write a lot in media and crib, but don’t really do anything worthwhile. They are also not concerned and connected to the masses. So ultimately who should lead INDIA and how is the real question to answer.

Regards. Happy new year to ALL.

N.C. Gupta

From: NavNirman@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:NavNirman@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Parvez Jamasji
Sent: 26 December 2009 10:08

Paradox of OUR times : A Cry, a SOS rises up from helpless, Hapless Indians to Save their Souls from the Worst, PREDATOR Indians.

Usurpers & Arrogators of Lesser Indian's Wives, Daughters; Property, even Life.  

Does it surprise, then that there are Separatists, Extremists & people fearing for themselves want to Leave India  ANYWAY they can, to save themselves from the greatest DEFAULTER, Greatest LITIGANT; & the Greatest FREEBOOTER - GOVERNMENT ! 

These Freebooters use the FULL FORCE of Police et al, to BLUDGEON the Lessor Indians into SUBJUGATION, to Protect their turf.  

TYRANNY the World didn't see, even in the "dark ages" !

Rocket Science is Not needed to understand why these Beneficiaries - neta-babus - want & strive to Weaken the Protectors of Bharat Mata by spreading Lies ""if Fauj is Strong it will take over""

THIS state of Lesser Indian is witnessed not only in India but Worldwide, it is REALITY, as PROPHESIED; not heresy.

Best Wishes.

E     :   parvez1942@yahoo. com
        :   parvezjamasji@ hotmail.com

Tel   : 91-22-2412 1656 > 9 am to 9 pm = GMT + 5 1/2 hrs.
Mob  : 91 - 9820813951 \ 98201 88926
Minoo Mansion , 799 J J Road , Dadar, Bombay - 400 014, India

. . . . . have to leave India in God’s hands - in modern parlance to anarchy, and that anarchy may lead to internecine warfare for a time or to unrestrained dacoities. \\\\\\\\\

Gandhiji's prediction of 'anarchy, internecine wars and unrestrained dacoities' is what we see today. 

Now, let us hope for Gandhiji's prediction 

'Rise of a true India ' to become true. 

Appayya Sastry Marla


--- On Sat, 26/12/09, Milap Choraria <milap_choraria@ yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Milap Choraria <milap_choraria@ yahoo.com>
Subject: [rti-times] Predictions or hiding plans of the then British Prime Minister Winston Churchill proved to be true
To: rti-times@lists.riseup.net
Date: Saturday, 26 December, 2009, 7:37 AM

On March 11, 1942 British Prime Minister Winston Churchill made an announcement before the House of Commons regarding his plans to send Sir Stafford Cripps' Mission to India, from which at the first hand this was appears that Britain was intended to hand over the Freedom or transfer the Powers to India or Indians of it choices. Churchill announced interalia as follows:

“The crisis in the affairs of India arising out of the Japanese advance has made us wish to rally all the forces of Indian life, to guard their land from the menace of the invader. In August, 1940, a full statement was made about the aims and policy we are pursuing in India . This amounted, in short, to a promise that, as soon as possible after the war, India should attain Dominion status, in full freedom and equality with this country and the other Dominions, under a Constitution to be framed by Indians, by agreement among themselves and acceptable to the main elements in Indian national life. This was, of course, subject to the fulfillment of our obligations for the protection of minorities, including the depressed classes, and of our treaty obligations to the Indian States, and to the settlement of certain lesser matters arising out of our long association with the fortunes of the Indian sub-continent.â€

Here, important question was raised by Mahatma Gandhi by opposing the aforesaid British Plan, with teeth and nail, because that imposes a condition on us to accept British System of Democracy and Governance, though which was acceptable to Jawaharlal Nehru, since he was Power Monger. Can Indian Politicians, challenge the results are not according to hiding plan of Winston Churchill that Powers in India should be in the hands of the rascals, rogues and freebooters and they are low caliber and men of straw?  

From: appayyasastry marla:
To: milap_choraria@ yahoo.com
Sent: Fri, December 25, 2009 10:47:36 AM
Subject: Predictions that proved to be true

Speaking on the eve of Indian Independence Winston Churchill said "Power will go to the hands of rascals, rogues and freebooters. All Indian leaders will be of low caliber and men of straw."  

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Winston_Churchil l

In response to the policy of the Labour government toward India he said "Let the House remember this. The Indian political parties and political classes do not represent the Indian masses. It is a delusion to believe that they do. I wish they did. They are not as representative of them as the movements in Britain represent the surges and impulses of the British nation." 

http://legacy. lclark.edu/ ~campion/ hist217/speeches .htm

In his magazine 'Harijan' dated 24th May, 1942, Gandhiji wrote, "Under my proposal, they have to leave India in God’s hands – but in modern parlance to anarchy, and that anarchy may lead to internecine warfare for a time or to unrestrained dacoities. From these, a true India will rise in the place of the false one we see". 

http://sourcebook.fsc.edu/history/gandhi.html

The Indians and Indian politicians have proved that the premonition of Winston Churchill is true. 

Gandhiji's prediction of 'anarchy, internecine wars and unrestrained dacoities' is what we see today. 

Now, let us hope for Gandhiji's prediction 

'Rise of a true India ' to become true. 

Appayya Sastry Marla
 

TRUTH SHALL ALWAYS PREVAIL
Milap Choraria  Editor: Suchna Ka Adhikar / RTI TIMES
National Convenor : Movement for Accountability to Public (MAP)
http://milapchoraria.tripod.com/msp

 

 


 

 

 

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.

 

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.



The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.

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#2915 From: Parvez Jamasji <parvez1942@...>
Date: Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:31 am
Subject: IInd SOS from Lesser Indian Re: NavNirman-COMATOSE Defence Producers Re:AOC Sachdeva:India needs medium transport aircraft 		parvez1942
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
 
Request RTI Wiz to ask why our Comatose Indigenous Cutting Edge, bla,bla; Defence Producers SHOULD not be euthanized 
 
This WILL save the Tax payer 100s if not 1000s of Corers, that should be spent to avoid Starvation Deaths, & maybe; may be, bring down Food Cost Inflation so that rest of the country (barring neta-babus) DON'T join the line for committing suicide; IF they CAN NOT join the line for Separatists &/or Extremists or those Escaping from / Fleeing the "super power India" with ONLY their Souls & HOPE

 
FEEDBACK WELCOME & APPRECIATED
 
Best Wishes.
 
 
 E     :   parvez1942@...
        :   parvezjamasji@...
 
Tel   : 91-22-2412 1656 > 9 am to 9 pm = GMT + 5 1/2 hrs.
Mob  : 91 - 9820813951 \ 98201 88926
Minoo Mansion, 799 J J Road, Dadar, Bombay - 400 014, India

 
--- On Sun, 27/12/09, chandran chandran <pkc484@...> wrote:
From: chandran chandran <pkc484@...>
Subject: Re: NavNirman - COMATOSE Defence Producers Re:AOC Sachdeva:India needs medium transport aircraft
To: NavNirman@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, 27 December, 2009, 10:07 AM

 
This state of affairs prevail in all ministries/departme nt of our government. Efforts be made  to curtail imports and implement indigenous content, be questioned and status monitored,when India boasts for "Knowledge Management" with abundance of Manpower.
Ex-serviceman Peechulli K. Chandran (Ex.Signal Boy OC) 1962~1966,                            

--- On Sun, 27/12/09, Parvez Jamasji <parvez1942@yahoo. com> wrote:

From: Parvez Jamasji <parvez1942@yahoo. com>
Subject: NavNirman - COMATOSE Defence Producers Re:AOC Sachdeva:India needs medium transport aircraft
To: "Exservicemen Joint Action Front Sanjha Morch" <sanjhamorcha@ gmail.com>, "Snippets AF" <snippets@yahoogroup s.com>, "Indian Veterans Def" <indianveterans@ yahoogroups. com>, "Military Veterans Def" <MilitaryVeterans@ yahoogroups. com>, "Capt Reet Def" <reet@kamlafauji. in>, "David de Figueiredo Wg. Cdr." <figifly@hotmail. com>, "Harpendra Singh Sekhon Wg. Cdr." <harrysekhon@ hotmail.com>, "N R Bhatt Wg.Cdr." <nr_bhatt@yahoo. com>, "V. Rajpal Wg.Cdr." <vkrajpal2002@ yahoo.co. in>, "Ramesh Mallik Wg.Cdr." <mallik_ramesh@ hotmail.com>
Cc: "India Super Power YG" <makeindiasuperpower @yahoogroups. com>, "Yuva Jagruti YG" <yuvajagruti@ yahoogroups. com>, "Sansad Sansad YG" <sansad@sansad. org>, "Better India GOVERNANCE YG" <betterindia@ aol.com>, "NIRMAN YG" <NavNirman@yahoogrou ps.com>, "Hum Jaagte Hai Governance YG" <HumJanenge@yahoogro ups.co.in>
Date: Sunday, 27 December, 2009, 8:24 AM

 
What the neta-babus are hunting for now, is to purchase Men behind the machine, along with the machine
 
Planes, Tanks & Ships are bought for the last 62 years despite Our Indigenous Cutting edge, State of the Art Technology.
Kept Comatose as it's USELESS products the CAPTIVE Fauj refuses to buy.
 
There being "No Cuts" for the neta-babus it's useless to them also.
 
P


--- On Sun, 27/12/09, Exservicemen Joint Action Front Sanjha Morch <sanjhamorcha@ gmail.com> wrote:
From: Exservicemen Joint Action Front Sanjha Morch <sanjhamorcha@ gmail.com>
Subject: AOC Sachdeva: India needs medium transport aircraft
To: "Sgt Jagdeep Singh" <iaf_jagdip@yahoo. co.in>
Date: Sunday, 27 December, 2009, 5:57 AM


CLICK THE LINK BELOW FOR DETAILS 
 'AOC Sachdeva: India needs medium transport aircraft'


With Warm Regards
Ex-Servicemen Joint Action Front
SANJHA MORCHA)
Chairman ------------ ---- Major SS Dhillon ------------ Ex-Signal Paras------- ---09988026822
President--- --------- ----  Lt Col RS Bopari------ -------Ex- ASC------ --------- -----09888480786
Joint President -------Lt Col AS Bhinder----2nd & 18 Sikh Regt-------- ---9872301705
Sr Vice President --CPL JS Kumbra-----AIF- --------- --------- --------- ---9417250916
Gen Secy-------- ----- Lt Col CJS Khera------- ----- Ex-Bengal Sappers---099882664 50

"“The life of the nation is secure only while the nation is honest, truthful & virtuousâ€


The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)
#2914 From: chandran chandran <pkc484@...>
Date: Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:37 am
Subject: Re: NavNirman - COMATOSE Defence Producers Re:AOC Sachdeva:India needs medium transport aircraft 		pkc484
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
This state of affairs prevail in all ministries/department of our government. Efforts be made  to curtail imports and implement indigenous content, be questioned and status monitored,when India boasts for "Knowledge Management" with abundance of Manpower.
Ex-serviceman Peechulli K. Chandran (Ex.Signal Boy OC) 1962~ 1966,                              Dr. Chandran Peechulli, Ph.D; MBA; D.Sc; FIE(India), PgDIMS(UK), PgTED; FIIPE; MSEI; MSNAME (USA), Ex.Chief Engineer( Marine ), G.M.( Tech ) Crossworld Shipping. Managing Editor & Publisher-"MARINE WAVES" International Maritime Newsletter. www.themarinewaves.com * browse and read editorials archive.

--- On Sun, 27/12/09, Parvez Jamasji <parvez1942@...> wrote:

From: Parvez Jamasji <parvez1942@...>
Subject: NavNirman - COMATOSE Defence Producers Re:AOC Sachdeva:India needs medium transport aircraft
To: "Exservicemen Joint Action Front Sanjha Morch" <sanjhamorcha@...>, "Snippets AF" <snippets@yahoogroups.com>, "Indian Veterans Def" <indianveterans@yahoogroups.com>, "Military Veterans Def" <MilitaryVeterans@yahoogroups.com>, "Capt Reet Def" <reet@...>, "David de Figueiredo Wg. Cdr." <figifly@...>, "Harpendra Singh Sekhon Wg. Cdr." <harrysekhon@...>, "N R Bhatt Wg.Cdr." <nr_bhatt@...>, "V. Rajpal Wg.Cdr." <vkrajpal2002@...>, "Ramesh Mallik Wg.Cdr." <mallik_ramesh@...>
Cc: "India Super Power YG" <makeindiasuperpower@yahoogroups.com>, "Yuva Jagruti YG" <yuvajagruti@yahoogroups.com>, "Sansad Sansad YG" <sansad@...>, "Better India GOVERNANCE YG" <betterindia@...>, "NIRMAN YG" <NavNirman@yahoogroups.com>, "Hum Jaagte Hai Governance YG" <HumJanenge@...>
Date: Sunday, 27 December, 2009, 8:24 AM

 

What the neta-babus are hunting for now, is to purchase Men behind the machine, along with the machine
 
Planes, Tanks & Ships are bought for the last 62 years despite Our Indigenous Cutting edge, State of the Art Technology.
Kept Comatose as it's USELESS products the CAPTIVE Fauj refuses to buy.
 
There being "No Cuts" for the neta-babus it's useless to them also.
 
P


--- On Sun, 27/12/09, Exservicemen Joint Action Front Sanjha Morch <sanjhamorcha@ gmail.com> wrote:
From: Exservicemen Joint Action Front Sanjha Morch <sanjhamorcha@ gmail.com>
Subject: AOC Sachdeva: India needs medium transport aircraft
To: "Sgt Jagdeep Singh" <iaf_jagdip@yahoo. co.in>
Date: Sunday, 27 December, 2009, 5:57 AM


CLICK THE LINK BELOW FOR DETAILS 
 'AOC Sachdeva: India needs medium transport aircraft'


With Warm Regards
Ex-Servicemen Joint Action Front
SANJHA MORCHA)
Chairman ------------ ---- Major SS Dhillon ------------ Ex-Signal Paras------- ---09988026822
President--- --------- ----  Lt Col RS Bopari------ -------Ex- ASC------ --------- -----09888480786
Joint President -------Lt Col AS Bhinder----2nd & 18 Sikh Regt-------- ---9872301705
Sr Vice President --CPL JS Kumbra-----AIF- --------- --------- --------- ---9417250916
Gen Secy-------- ----- Lt Col CJS Khera------- ----- Ex-Bengal Sappers---099882664 50

"“The life of the nation is secure only while the nation is honest, truthful & virtuousâ€


The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.


The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)
#2913 From: Parvez Jamasji <parvez1942@...>
Date: Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:15 am
Subject: Solution or Crutch ? Re:[makeindiasuperpower]NavNirman - Lesser Indian's SOS 		parvez1942
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
 
My response to preceding Email was to Hi Lite  'Milap Choraria', Appayya Sastry Marla; Winston_Churchill & our very Own BAPU's Prophesies

To make AWARE as many as possible, so they aren't 'take in' by delusions; of Indian Economic Proves, that is UNABLE to avoid starvation.
 
Another delusion "Green & white revolution" dal @ Rs100/Kg & milk @ 30/lt  
Despite "Worlds' Best financial wizards" at India's Helm
 
Perhaps & Hopefully your solution may pull India out of it's morass ? 
 
With the World's predictions you quote, providing the crutch ?
 
P 

--- On Sat, 26/12/09, jag1ts <jag1ts@...> wrote:
From: jag1ts <jag1ts@...>
Subject: [>makeindiasuperpower] NavNirman - Lesser Indian's SOS
To: NavNirman@yahoogroups.com, "'Milap Choraria'" <milap_choraria@...>, "'Indian Veterans Def'" <indianveterans@yahoogroups.com>, "'Military Veterans Def'" <MilitaryVeterans@yahoogroups.com>, "'Capt Reet Def'" <reet@...>, "'David de Figueiredo Wg. Cdr.'" <figifly@...>, "'Harpendra Singh Sekhon Wg. Cdr.'" <harrysekhon@...>, "'N R Bhatt Wg.Cdr.'" <nr_bhatt@...>, "'V. Rajpal Wg.Cdr.'" <vkrajpal2002@...>, "'Ramesh Mallik Wg.Cdr.'" <mallik_ramesh@...>
Cc: "'Vikki Athavale'" <vatts1998@...>, "'Ragul Athavale'" <rahnissan_ghana@...>, "'Cynthia Stephen Journo'" <cynstepin@...>, "'Urvi Sukul Singh Journo'" <usukulsingh@...>, "'Urvashi Sharma Journo'" <rtimahilamanchup@...>, "'Mumbai 9 TV'" <editormumbai@...>, "'NDTV TV'" <feedback@...>, "'Hum Log TV'" <feedback@...>, "'India Super Power YG'" <makeindiasuperpower@yahoogroups.com>, "'Yuva Jagruti YG'" <yuvajagruti@yahoogroups.com>, "'Better India GOVERNANCE YG'" <betterindia@...>, "'Hum Jaagte Hai Governance YG'" <HumJanenge@...>, "'Studies Zorastrian'" <info@...>, "'World Zor Com Center Directory Zorastrian'" <directory@...>, "'RKB TV'" <info@...>
Date: Saturday, 26 December, 2009, 7:24 PM
Dear friends,
 
regards,
jagwant
 
If we are not part of the solution ;
We are part of the problem!
 
To become part of the solution please contact sender.
 
--आओ २१वी सदी की नई आज़ादी की लडाई में भाग लें,
 à¤­à¤¾à¤°à¤¤ सà¥à¤µà¤¾à¤­à¤¿à¤®à¤¾à¤¨ से जà¥à¤¡à¤¼à¤•à¤° à¤à¤• नया भारत बनाà¤.

--- On Sat, 26/12/09, ncgupta38@gmail. com <ncgupta38@gmail. com> wrote:

But world is predicting that ASEA led by CHINA , JAPAN and INDIA will equate in economy with Europe/USA and Russia by 2048. In India political scenario is going to be led by the present parties only, may be in more fragmented format of many new political parties of dissenters coming up. People are generally happy with growth of India , even in all these odds we are daily crying. Gandhi ji is almost forgotten.

Our intelligent people though write a lot in media and crib, but don’t really do anything worthwhile. They are also not concerned and connected to the masses. So ultimately who should lead INDIA and how is the real question to answer.

Regards. Happy new year to ALL.

N.C. Gupta

From: NavNirman@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:NavNirman@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Parvez Jamasji
Sent: 26 December 2009 10:08

Paradox of OUR times : A Cry, a SOS rises up from helpless, Hapless Indians to Save their Souls from the Worst, PREDATOR Indians.

Usurpers & Arrogators of Lesser Indian's Wives, Daughters; Property, even Life.  

Does it surprise, then that there are Separatists, Extremists & people fearing for themselves want to Leave India  ANYWAY they can, to save themselves from the greatest DEFAULTER, Greatest LITIGANT; & the Greatest FREEBOOTER - GOVERNMENT ! 

These Freebooters use the FULL FORCE of Police et al, to BLUDGEON the Lessor Indians into SUBJUGATION, to Protect their turf.  

TYRANNY the World didn't see, even in the "dark ages" !

Rocket Science is Not needed to understand why these Beneficiaries - neta-babus - want & strive to Weaken the Protectors of Bharat Mata by spreading Lies ""if Fauj is Strong it will take over""

THIS state of Lesser Indian is witnessed not only in India but Worldwide, it is REALITY, as PROPHESIED; not heresy.

Best Wishes.

E     :   parvez1942@yahoo. com
        :   parvezjamasji@ hotmail.com

Tel   : 91-22-2412 1656 > 9 am to 9 pm = GMT + 5 1/2 hrs.
Mob  : 91 - 9820813951 \ 98201 88926
Minoo Mansion , 799 J J Road , Dadar, Bombay - 400 014, India

. . . . . have to leave India in God’s hands - in modern parlance to anarchy, and that anarchy may lead to internecine warfare for a time or to unrestrained dacoities. \\\\\\\\\

Gandhiji's prediction of 'anarchy, internecine wars and unrestrained dacoities' is what we see today. 

Now, let us hope for Gandhiji's prediction 

'Rise of a true India ' to become true. 

Appayya Sastry Marla


--- On Sat, 26/12/09, Milap Choraria <milap_choraria@ yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Milap Choraria <milap_choraria@ yahoo.com>
Subject: [rti-times] Predictions or hiding plans of the then British Prime Minister Winston Churchill proved to be true
To: rti-times@...
Date: Saturday, 26 December, 2009, 7:37 AM

On March 11, 1942 British Prime Minister Winston Churchill made an announcement before the House of Commons regarding his plans to send Sir Stafford Cripps' Mission to India, from which at the first hand this was appears that Britain was intended to hand over the Freedom or transfer the Powers to India or Indians of it choices. Churchill announced interalia as follows:

“The crisis in the affairs of India arising out of the Japanese advance has made us wish to rally all the forces of Indian life, to guard their land from the menace of the invader. In August, 1940, a full statement was made about the aims and policy we are pursuing in India . This amounted, in short, to a promise that, as soon as possible after the war, India should attain Dominion status, in full freedom and equality with this country and the other Dominions, under a Constitution to be framed by Indians, by agreement among themselves and acceptable to the main elements in Indian national life. This was, of course, subject to the fulfillment of our obligations for the protection of minorities, including the depressed classes, and of our treaty obligations to the Indian States, and to the settlement of certain lesser matters arising out of our long association with the fortunes of the Indian sub-continent.â€

Here, important question was raised by Mahatma Gandhi by opposing the aforesaid British Plan, with teeth and nail, because that imposes a condition on us to accept British System of Democracy and Governance, though which was acceptable to Jawaharlal Nehru, since he was Power Monger. Can Indian Politicians, challenge the results are not according to hiding plan of Winston Churchill that Powers in India should be in the hands of the rascals, rogues and freebooters and they are low caliber and men of straw?  

From: appayyasastry marla:
To: milap_choraria@ yahoo.com
Sent: Fri, December 25, 2009 10:47:36 AM
Subject: Predictions that proved to be true

Speaking on the eve of Indian Independence Winston Churchill said "Power will go to the hands of rascals, rogues and freebooters. All Indian leaders will be of low caliber and men of straw."  

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Winston_Churchil l

In response to the policy of the Labour government toward India he said "Let the House remember this. The Indian political parties and political classes do not represent the Indian masses. It is a delusion to believe that they do. I wish they did. They are not as representative of them as the movements in Britain represent the surges and impulses of the British nation." 

http://legacy. lclark.edu/ ~campion/ hist217/speeches .htm

In his magazine 'Harijan' dated 24th May, 1942, Gandhiji wrote, "Under my proposal, they have to leave India in God’s hands – but in modern parlance to anarchy, and that anarchy may lead to internecine warfare for a time or to unrestrained dacoities. From these, a true India will rise in the place of the false one we see". 

http://sourcebook.fsc.edu/history/gandhi.html

The Indians and Indian politicians have proved that the premonition of Winston Churchill is true. 

Gandhiji's prediction of 'anarchy, internecine wars and unrestrained dacoities' is what we see today. 

Now, let us hope for Gandhiji's prediction 

'Rise of a true India ' to become true. 

Appayya Sastry Marla
 

TRUTH SHALL ALWAYS PREVAIL
Milap Choraria  Editor: Suchna Ka Adhikar / RTI TIMES
National Convenor : Movement for Accountability to Public (MAP)
http://milapchoraria.tripod.com/msp

 

 


 

 



The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (2)
#2912 From: Parvez Jamasji <parvez1942@...>
Date: Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:54 am
Subject: COMATOSE Defence Producers Re:AOC Sachdeva:India needs medium transport aircraft 		parvez1942
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
 
What the neta-babus are hunting for now, is to purchase Men behind the machine, along with the machine
 
Planes, Tanks & Ships are bought for the last 62 years despite Our Indigenous Cutting edge, State of the Art Technology.
Kept Comatose as it's USELESS products the CAPTIVE Fauj refuses to buy.
 
There being "No Cuts" for the neta-babus it's useless to them also.
 
P


--- On Sun, 27/12/09, Exservicemen Joint Action Front Sanjha Morch <sanjhamorcha@...> wrote:
From: Exservicemen Joint Action Front Sanjha Morch <sanjhamorcha@...>
Subject: AOC Sachdeva: India needs medium transport aircraft
To: "Sgt Jagdeep Singh" <iaf_jagdip@...>
Date: Sunday, 27 December, 2009, 5:57 AM


CLICK THE LINK BELOW FOR DETAILS 
 'AOC Sachdeva: India needs medium transport aircraft'


With Warm Regards
Ex-Servicemen Joint Action Front
SANJHA MORCHA)
Chairman ---------------- Major SS Dhillon ------------Ex-Signal Paras----------09988026822
President----------------  Lt Col RS Bopari-------------Ex-ASC--------------------09888480786
Joint President -------Lt Col AS Bhinder----2nd & 18 Sikh Regt-----------9872301705
Sr Vice President --CPL JS Kumbra-----AIF-------------------------------9417250916
Gen Secy------------- Lt Col CJS Khera------------ Ex-Bengal Sappers---09988266450

"“The life of the nation is secure only while the nation is honest, truthful & virtuousâ€


The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)
#2911 From: <ncgupta38@...>
Date: Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:14 am
Subject: RE: NavNirman - Lesser Indian's SOS Fw:[rti-times]Predictions or hiding plans of the then British Prime Minister Winston Churchill proved to be true 		ncgupta38
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

Dear All,

But world is predicting that ASEA led by CHINA, JAPAN and INDIA will equate in economy with Europe/USA

and Russia by 2048. In India political scenario is going to be led by the present parties only, may be in more

fragmented format of many new political parties of dissenters coming up. People are generally happy with

growth of India, even in all these odds we are daily crying. Gandhi ji is almost forgotten. Our intelligent people

though write a lot in media and crib, but don’t really do anything worthwhile. They are also not concerned and

connected to the masses. So ultimately who should lead INDIA and how is the real question to answer.

Regards. Happy new year to ALL.

N.C. Gupta

 

From: NavNirman@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NavNirman@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Parvez Jamasji
Sent: 26 December 2009 10:08
To: Milap Choraria; Indian Veterans Def; Military Veterans Def; Capt Reet Def; David de Figueiredo Wg. Cdr.; Harpendra Singh Sekhon Wg. Cdr.; N R Bhatt Wg.Cdr.; V. Rajpal Wg.Cdr.; Ramesh Mallik Wg.Cdr.
Cc: Vikki Athavale; Ragul Athavale; Cynthia Stephen Journo; Urvi Sukul Singh Journo; Urvashi Sharma Journo; Mumbai 9 TV; NDTV TV; Hum Log TV; India Super Power YG; Yuva Jagruti YG; Better India GOVERNANCE YG; NIRMAN YG; Hum Jaagte Hai Governance YG; Studies Zorastrian; World Zor Com Center Directory Zorastrian; RKB TV
Subject: NavNirman - Lesser Indian's SOS Fw:[rti-times]Predictions or hiding plans of the then British Prime Minister Winston Churchill proved to be true

 

 

Paradox of OUR times : A Cry, a SOS rises up from helpless, Hapless Indians to Save their Souls from the Worst, PREDATOR Indians.

 

Usurpers & Arrogators of Lesser Indian's Wives, Daughters; Property, even Life.  

 

Does it surprise, then that there are Separatists, Extremists & people fearing for themselves want to Leave India ANYWAY they can, to save themselves from the greatest DEFAULTER, Greatest LITIGANT; & the Greatest FREEBOOTER - GOVERNMENT ! 

 

These Freebooters use the FULL FORCE of Police et al, to BLUDGEON the Lessor Indians into SUBJUGATION, to Protect their turf.  

TYRANNY the World didn't see, even in the "dark ages" !

 

Rocket Science is Not needed to understand why these Beneficiaries - neta-babus - want & strive to Weaken the Protectors of Bharat Mata by spreading Lies ""if Fauj is Strong it will take over""

 

THIS state of Lesser Indian is witnessed not only in India but Worldwide, it is REALITY, as PROPHESIED; not heresy.

 

Best Wishes.

 

 

E     :   parvez1942@yahoo.com
        :   parvezjamasji@hotmail.com

 

Tel   : 91-22-2412 1656 > 9 am to 9 pm = GMT + 5 1/2 hrs.
Mob  : 91 - 9820813951 \ 98201 88926
Minoo Mansion, 799 J J Road, Dadar, Bombay - 400 014, India


 

. . . . . have to leave India in God’s hands - in modern parlance to anarchy, and that anarchy may lead to internecine warfare for a time or to unrestrained dacoities. \\\\\\\\\

 

Gandhiji's prediction of 'anarchy, internecine wars and unrestrained dacoities' is what we see today. 

 

Now, let us hope for Gandhiji's prediction 

'Rise of a true India ' to become true. 

Appayya Sastry Marla


--- On Sat, 26/12/09, Milap Choraria <milap_choraria@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Milap Choraria <milap_choraria@yahoo.com>
Subject: [rti-times] Predictions or hiding plans of the then British Prime Minister Winston Churchill proved to be true
To: rti-times@lists.riseup.net
Date: Saturday, 26 December, 2009, 7:37 AM

On March 11, 1942 British Prime Minister Winston Churchill made an announcement before the House of Commons regarding his plans to send Sir Stafford Cripps' Mission to India, from which at the first hand this was appears that Britain was intended to hand over the Freedom or transfer the Powers to India or Indians of it choices. Churchill announced interalia as follows:

“The crisis in the affairs of India arising out of the Japanese advance has made us wish to rally all the forces of Indian life, to guard their land from the menace of the invader. In August, 1940, a full statement was made about the aims and policy we are pursuing in India . This amounted, in short, to a promise that, as soon as possible after the war, India should attain Dominion status, in full freedom and equality with this country and the other Dominions, under a Constitution to be framed by Indians, by agreement among themselves and acceptable to the main elements in Indian national life. This was, of course, subject to the fulfillment of our obligations for the protection of minorities, including the depressed classes, and of our treaty obligations to the Indian States, and to the settlement of certain lesser matters arising out of our long association with the fortunes of the Indian sub-continent.”

 

Here, important question was raised by Mahatma Gandhi by opposing the aforesaid British Plan, with teeth and nail, because that imposes a condition on us to accept British System of Democracy and Governance, though which was acceptable to Jawaharlal Nehru, since he was Power Monger. Can Indian Politicians, challenge the results are not according to hiding plan of Winston Churchill that Powers in India should be in the hands of the rascals, rogues and freebooters and they are low caliber and men of straw?  

From: appayyasastry marla:
To: milap_choraria@yahoo.com
Sent: Fri, December 25, 2009 10:47:36 AM
Subject: Predictions that proved to be true

Speaking on the eve of Indian Independence Winston Churchill said "Power will go to the hands of rascals, rogues and freebooters. All Indian leaders will be of low caliber and men of straw."  

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill

 

In response to the policy of the Labour government toward India he said "Let the House remember this. The Indian political parties and political classes do not represent the Indian masses. It is a delusion to believe that they do. I wish they did. They are not as representative of them as the movements in Britain represent the surges and impulses of the British nation." 

 

http://legacy.lclark.edu/~campion/hist217/speeches.htm

 

In his magazine 'Harijan' dated 24th May, 1942, Gandhiji wrote, "Under my proposal, they have to leave India in God’s hands – but in modern parlance to anarchy, and that anarchy may lead to internecine warfare for a time or to unrestrained dacoities. From these, a true India will rise in the place of the false one we see". 

http://sourcebook.fsc.edu/history/gandhi.html

 

The Indians and Indian politicians have proved that the premonition of Winston Churchill is true. 

Gandhiji's prediction of 'anarchy, internecine wars and unrestrained dacoities' is what we see today. 

Now, let us hope for Gandhiji's prediction 

'Rise of a true India ' to become true. 

Appayya Sastry Marla
 

TRUTH SHALL ALWAYS PREVAIL
Milap Choraria  Editor: Suchna Ka Adhikar / RTI TIMES
National Convenor : Movement for Accountability to Public (MAP)
http://milapchoraria.tripod.com/msp

 

 


 

 



The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.


Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (2)
#2910 From: Parvez Jamasji <parvez1942@...>
Date: Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:38 am
Subject: Lesser Indian's SOS Fw:[rti-times]Predictions or hiding plans of the then British Prime Minister Winston Churchill proved to be true 		parvez1942
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
 
Paradox of OUR times : A Cry, a SOS rises up from helpless, Hapless Indians to Save their Souls from the Worst, PREDATOR Indians.
 
Usurpers & Arrogators of Lesser Indian's Wives, Daughters; Property, even Life.  
 
Does it surprise, then that there are Separatists, Extremists & people fearing for themselves want to Leave India ANYWAY they can, to save themselves from the greatest DEFAULTER, Greatest LITIGANT; & the Greatest FREEBOOTER - GOVERNMENT ! 
 
These Freebooters use the FULL FORCE of Police et al, to BLUDGEON the Lessor Indians into SUBJUGATION, to Protect their turf.  
TYRANNY the World didn't see, even in the "dark ages" !
 
Rocket Science is Not needed to understand why these Beneficiaries - neta-babus - want & strive to Weaken the Protectors of Bharat Mata by spreading Lies ""if Fauj is Strong it will take over""
 
THIS state of Lesser Indian is witnessed not only in India but Worldwide, it is REALITY, as PROPHESIED; not heresy.
 
Best Wishes.
 
 
E     :   parvez1942@...
        :   parvezjamasji@...
 
Tel   : 91-22-2412 1656 > 9 am to 9 pm = GMT + 5 1/2 hrs.
Mob  : 91 - 9820813951 \ 98201 88926
Minoo Mansion, 799 J J Road, Dadar, Bombay - 400 014, India

 
. . . . . have to leave India in God’s hands - in modern parlance to anarchy, and that anarchy may lead to internecine warfare for a time or to unrestrained dacoities. \\\\\\\\\

 

Gandhiji's prediction of 'anarchy, internecine wars and unrestrained dacoities' is what we see today. 

 

Now, let us hope for Gandhiji's prediction 

'Rise of a true India ' to become true. 

Appayya Sastry Marla


--- On Sat, 26/12/09, Milap Choraria <milap_choraria@...> wrote:

From: Milap Choraria <milap_choraria@...>
Subject: [rti-times] Predictions or hiding plans of the then British Prime Minister Winston Churchill proved to be true
To: rti-times@...
Date: Saturday, 26 December, 2009, 7:37 AM

On March 11, 1942 British Prime Minister Winston Churchill made an announcement before the House of Commons regarding his plans to send Sir Stafford Cripps' Mission to India, from which at the first hand this was appears that Britain was intended to hand over the Freedom or transfer the Powers to India or Indians of it choices. Churchill announced interalia as follows:

“The crisis in the affairs of India arising out of the Japanese advance has made us wish to rally all the forces of Indian life, to guard their land from the menace of the invader. In August, 1940, a full statement was made about the aims and policy we are pursuing in India . This amounted, in short, to a promise that, as soon as possible after the war, India should attain Dominion status, in full freedom and equality with this country and the other Dominions, under a Constitution to be framed by Indians, by agreement among themselves and acceptable to the main elements in Indian national life. This was, of course, subject to the fulfillment of our obligations for the protection of minorities, including the depressed classes, and of our treaty obligations to the Indian States, and to the settlement of certain lesser matters arising out of our long association with the fortunes of the Indian sub-continent.â€

 

Here, important question was raised by Mahatma Gandhi by opposing the aforesaid British Plan, with teeth and nail, because that imposes a condition on us to accept British System of Democracy and Governance, though which was acceptable to Jawaharlal Nehru, since he was Power Monger. Can Indian Politicians, challenge the results are not according to hiding plan of Winston Churchill that Powers in India should be in the hands of the rascals, rogues and freebooters and they are low caliber and men of straw?  

From: appayyasastry marla:
To: milap_choraria@...
Sent: Fri, December 25, 2009 10:47:36 AM
Subject: Predictions that proved to be true

Speaking on the eve of Indian Independence Winston Churchill said "Power will go to the hands of rascals, rogues and freebooters. All Indian leaders will be of low caliber and men of straw."  

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill

 

In response to the policy of the Labour government toward India he said "Let the House remember this. The Indian political parties and political classes do not represent the Indian masses. It is a delusion to believe that they do. I wish they did. They are not as representative of them as the movements in Britain represent the surges and impulses of the British nation." 

 

http://legacy.lclark.edu/~campion/hist217/speeches.htm

 

In his magazine 'Harijan' dated 24th May, 1942, Gandhiji wrote, "Under my proposal, they have to leave India in God’s hands – but in modern parlance to anarchy, and that anarchy may lead to internecine warfare for a time or to unrestrained dacoities. From these, a true India will rise in the place of the false one we see". 

http://sourcebook.fsc.edu/history/gandhi.html

 

The Indians and Indian politicians have proved that the premonition of Winston Churchill is true. 

Gandhiji's prediction of 'anarchy, internecine wars and unrestrained dacoities' is what we see today. 

Now, let us hope for Gandhiji's prediction 

'Rise of a true India ' to become true. 

Appayya Sastry Marla
 

TRUTH SHALL ALWAYS PREVAIL
Milap Choraria  Editor: Suchna Ka Adhikar / RTI TIMES
National Convenor : Movement for Accountability to Public (MAP)
http://milapchoraria.tripod.com/msp



 


The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (2)
#2909 From: Shivshankar Surkund <snsurkund@...>
Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 12:47 pm
Subject: RE: NavNirman - My name is not Khan, I am Mr Kaul 		snsurkund@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi there,
 
Irrespective of the political party they represent, all elected representative atre UNITED at least on one issue - which they demonstrated by voting the Bill unanimously - special perks and priviledges to amounting thousands of crores.
 
If more states (Telangana,Gorkhaland,Vidarbha etc) are carved out, needless to say the expenditure to 'take care' of elected people on 'tax payers'.
 
Now see, in Jharkhand, a person who was in prison for serious charges, is now dictating that no Govt. can be formed without HE being CM.   Every party is willing to change colours, overlook nation's interest', voters interest, but just one objective - to be in power.
 
Mera Desh Mahan.
 
s.n.surkund

--- On Fri, 12/25/09, ncgupta38@... <ncgupta38@...> wrote:

From: ncgupta38@... <ncgupta38@...>
Subject: RE: NavNirman - My name is not Khan, I am Mr Kaul
To: NavNirman@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, December 25, 2009, 4:37 AM

 

Dear Venkat ji,

 You are taking up many topics and bringing up many issues. Hope these are finding

 right noises in the NAVNIRMAN group with right responses.

 Many thanks for your this input. Hindus and Muslims are like two eyes which can not

 see each other but were to see together as thought and expected by our founding fathers

 after freedom. This gave birth to SECULARISM ,but the real motives are not clear even

 today. Now we are a confused nation.

 Regards.

 N.C.Gupta

 

From: NavNirman@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto: NavNirman@yahoogrou ps.com ] On Behalf Of sri venkat
Sent: 25 December 2009 13:21
Subject: NavNirman - My name is not Khan, I am Mr Kaul

 

 

My name is not Khan, I am Mr Kaul

http://blogs. timesofindia. indiatimes. com/indus- calling/entry/ my-name-is- not-khan

Tarun Vijay Tuesday December 22, 2009
I am not Khan. My name bears a different set of four letters: K A U L.
Kaul. As those who know Indian names would understand I happened to be
born in a family which was called Hindu by others. Hence, we were
sure, we would never get a friend like KJ to make a movie on our
humiliations, and the contemptuous and forced exile from our homeland.
It's not fashionable. It's fashionable to get a Khan as a friend and
portray his agony and pains and sufferings when he is asked by a US
private to take off his shoes and show his socks. Natural and quite
justifiable that Khan must feel insulted and enraged. Enough Masala to
make a movie.

But unfortunately I am a Kaul. I am not a Khan.

Hence when my sisters and mothers were raped and killed, when
six-year-old Seema was witness to the brutal slaughtering of her
brother, mother and father with a butcher's knife by a Khan, nobody
ever came to make a movie on my agony, pain and anguish, and tears.

No KJ would make a movie on Kashmiri Hindus. Because we are not Khans.
We are Kauls.

When we look at our own selves as Kauls, we also see a macabre dance
of leaders who people Parliament. Some of them were really concerned
about us. They got the bungalows and acres of greenery and had their
portraits were worshipped by the gullible devotees of patriotism.

They made reservations in schools and colleges for us. In many many
other states. But never did they try that we go back to our homes.
They have other priorities and 'love your jihadi neighborhood'
programmes. They get flabbier and flabbier with the passing of each
year, sit on sacks of sermons; issue instructions to live simply and
follow moral principles delivered by ancestors and kept in documents
treated with time-tested preservatives.

They could play with me because my name is Kaul. And not Mr Khan. I
saw the trailer to this fabulous movie, which must do good business at
the box office.

There was not even a hint that terror is bad and it is worse if it is
perpetuated in the name of a religion that means Peace. Peace be upon
all its followers and all other the creatures too.

So you make a movie on the humiliation of taking off shoes to a
foreign police force which has decided not to allow another 9/11.

The humiliation of taking off the shoes and the urge to show that you
are innocent is really too deep. But what about the humiliation of
leaving your home and hearth and the world and the relatives and wife
and mother and father? And being forced to live in shabby tents, at
the mercy of nincompoop leaders encashing your misery and
bribe-seeking babus? And seeing your daughters growing up too sudden
and finding no place to hide your shame?

No KJ would ever come forward to make a movie, a telling,
spine-chilling narration on the celluloid, of five-year-old Seema, who
saw her parents and brother being slaughtered by a butcher's knife in
Doda. Because her dad was not Mr Khan. He was one Mr Kaul.

Sorry, Mr Kaul and your entire ilk. I can't help you.

It's not fashionable to side with those who are Kauls. And Rainas. And
Bhatts. Dismissively called KPs. KPs means Kashmiri Pandits. They are
a bunch of communalists. They were the agents of one Mr Jagmohan who
planned their exodus so that Khans can be blamed falsely. In fact, a
movie can be made on how these KPs conspired their own exile to give a
bad name to the loving and affectionate Khan brothers of the valley.

To voice the woes of Kauls is sinful. The right course to get counted
in the lists of the Prime Minister's banquets and the President's
parties is to announce from the roof top: hey, men and ladies, I am Mr
Khan.

The biggest apartheid the state observes is to exclude those who cry
for Kauls, wear the colours of Ayodhya, love the wisdom of the
civilisational heritage, dare to assert as Hindus in a land which is
known as Hindustan too and struggle to live with dignity as Kauls.
They are out and exiled. You can see any list of honours and invites
to summits and late-evening gala parties to toast a new brand. All
that the Kauls are allowed is a space at Jantar Mantar: shout, weep
and go back to your tents after a tiring demonstration. Mr Kaul, you
have got a wrong name.

A dozen KJs would fly to take you atop the glory - posts and gardens
of sympathies if you accept to wear a Khan name and love a Sunita,
Pranita, Komal or a Kamini. Well, here you have a sweetheart in
Mandira. That goes well with the story.

And you pegged the movie plot on autism.

I wept. It was too much. I wept as a father of a son who needed a
story as an Indian. Who cares for his autistic son, his relationship
with the western world, his love affair with a young sweet something
as a human, as someone whose heart goes beyond being a Hindu, a Muslim
or a proselytizing Vatican-centric aggressive soul. Not the one who
would declare in newspaper interviews: "I think I am an ambassador for
Islam". Shah Rukh is Shah Rukh, not because he is an ambassador for
Islam. If that was true, he could have found a room in Deoband. Fine
enough. But he became a heartthrob and a famousl star because he is a
great actor. He owes everything he has to Indians and not just to
Muslims. We love him not because he is some Mr Khan. We love him
because he has portrayed the dreams, aspirations, pains, anguish and
ups and downs of our daily life. As an Indian. As one of us.

If he wants to use our goodwill and love for strengthening his image
as an ambassador for Islam, will we have to think to put up an
ambassador for Hindus? That, at least to me, would be unacceptable
because I trust everyone: a Khan or a Kaul or a Singh or a Victor. Who
represents India represents us all too, including Hindus. My best
ambassadorship would be an ambassadorship for the tricolour and not
for anything else because I see my Ram and Dharma in that. I don't
think even an Amitabh or a Hritik would ever think in terms Shah Rukh
has chosen for himself. But shouldn't these big, tall, successful
Indians who wear Hindu names make a movie on why Kauls were ousted?
Why Godhra occurred in the first place? Why nobody, yes, not a single
Muslim, comes forward to take up the cause of the exiled and killed
and contemptuously marginalized Kauls whereas every Muslim complainant
would have essentially a Hindu advocate to take on Hindus as fiercely
as he can?

If you are Mr Khan and found dead on the railway tracks, the entire
nation would be shaken. And he was also a Rizwan. May be just a
coincidence that our Mr Khan in the movie is also a Rizwan.

Rizwan's death saw the police commissioner punished and cover stories
written by missionary writers. But if you are a Sharma or a Kaul and
happened to love an Ameena Yusuf in Srinagar , you would soon find
your corpse inside the police thana and NONE, not even a small-time
local paper would find it worthwhile to waste a column on you. No
police constable would be asked to explain how a wrongly detained
person was found dead in police custody?

Because the lover found dead inside a police thana was not Mr Khan. No
KJ would ever come forward to make a movie on 'My name is Kaul. And I
am terror-struck by Khans'.

Give me back my identity as an Indian, Mr. Khan and I would have no
problem even wearing your name and appreciating the tender love of an
autistic son.


Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)
#2908 From: <ncgupta38@...>
Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 12:37 pm
Subject: RE: NavNirman - My name is not Khan, I am Mr Kaul 		ncgupta38
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

Dear Venkat ji,

 You are taking up many topics and bringing up many issues. Hope these are finding

 right noises in the NAVNIRMAN group with right responses.

 Many thanks for your this input. Hindus and Muslims are like two eyes which can not

 see each other but were to see together as thought and expected by our founding fathers

 after freedom. This gave birth to SECULARISM ,but the real motives are not clear even

 today. Now we are a confused nation.

 Regards.

 N.C.Gupta

 

From: NavNirman@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NavNirman@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sri venkat
Sent: 25 December 2009 13:21
Subject: NavNirman - My name is not Khan, I am Mr Kaul

 

 

My name is not Khan, I am Mr Kaul

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indus-calling/entry/my-name-is-not-khan

Tarun Vijay Tuesday December 22, 2009
I am not Khan. My name bears a different set of four letters: K A U L.
Kaul. As those who know Indian names would understand I happened to be
born in a family which was called Hindu by others. Hence, we were
sure, we would never get a friend like KJ to make a movie on our
humiliations, and the contemptuous and forced exile from our homeland.
It's not fashionable. It's fashionable to get a Khan as a friend and
portray his agony and pains and sufferings when he is asked by a US
private to take off his shoes and show his socks. Natural and quite
justifiable that Khan must feel insulted and enraged. Enough Masala to
make a movie.

But unfortunately I am a Kaul. I am not a Khan.

Hence when my sisters and mothers were raped and killed, when
six-year-old Seema was witness to the brutal slaughtering of her
brother, mother and father with a butcher's knife by a Khan, nobody
ever came to make a movie on my agony, pain and anguish, and tears.

No KJ would make a movie on Kashmiri Hindus. Because we are not Khans.
We are Kauls.

When we look at our own selves as Kauls, we also see a macabre dance
of leaders who people Parliament. Some of them were really concerned
about us. They got the bungalows and acres of greenery and had their
portraits were worshipped by the gullible devotees of patriotism.

They made reservations in schools and colleges for us. In many many
other states. But never did they try that we go back to our homes.
They have other priorities and 'love your jihadi neighborhood'
programmes. They get flabbier and flabbier with the passing of each
year, sit on sacks of sermons; issue instructions to live simply and
follow moral principles delivered by ancestors and kept in documents
treated with time-tested preservatives.

They could play with me because my name is Kaul. And not Mr Khan. I
saw the trailer to this fabulous movie, which must do good business at
the box office.

There was not even a hint that terror is bad and it is worse if it is
perpetuated in the name of a religion that means Peace. Peace be upon
all its followers and all other the creatures too.

So you make a movie on the humiliation of taking off shoes to a
foreign police force which has decided not to allow another 9/11.

The humiliation of taking off the shoes and the urge to show that you
are innocent is really too deep. But what about the humiliation of
leaving your home and hearth and the world and the relatives and wife
and mother and father? And being forced to live in shabby tents, at
the mercy of nincompoop leaders encashing your misery and
bribe-seeking babus? And seeing your daughters growing up too sudden
and finding no place to hide your shame?

No KJ would ever come forward to make a movie, a telling,
spine-chilling narration on the celluloid, of five-year-old Seema, who
saw her parents and brother being slaughtered by a butcher's knife in
Doda. Because her dad was not Mr Khan. He was one Mr Kaul.

Sorry, Mr Kaul and your entire ilk. I can't help you.

It's not fashionable to side with those who are Kauls. And Rainas. And
Bhatts. Dismissively called KPs. KPs means Kashmiri Pandits. They are
a bunch of communalists. They were the agents of one Mr Jagmohan who
planned their exodus so that Khans can be blamed falsely. In fact, a
movie can be made on how these KPs conspired their own exile to give a
bad name to the loving and affectionate Khan brothers of the valley.

To voice the woes of Kauls is sinful. The right course to get counted
in the lists of the Prime Minister's banquets and the President's
parties is to announce from the roof top: hey, men and ladies, I am Mr
Khan.

The biggest apartheid the state observes is to exclude those who cry
for Kauls, wear the colours of Ayodhya, love the wisdom of the
civilisational heritage, dare to assert as Hindus in a land which is
known as Hindustan too and struggle to live with dignity as Kauls.
They are out and exiled. You can see any list of honours and invites
to summits and late-evening gala parties to toast a new brand. All
that the Kauls are allowed is a space at Jantar Mantar: shout, weep
and go back to your tents after a tiring demonstration. Mr Kaul, you
have got a wrong name.

A dozen KJs would fly to take you atop the glory - posts and gardens
of sympathies if you accept to wear a Khan name and love a Sunita,
Pranita, Komal or a Kamini. Well, here you have a sweetheart in
Mandira. That goes well with the story.

And you pegged the movie plot on autism.

I wept. It was too much. I wept as a father of a son who needed a
story as an Indian. Who cares for his autistic son, his relationship
with the western world, his love affair with a young sweet something
as a human, as someone whose heart goes beyond being a Hindu, a Muslim
or a proselytizing Vatican-centric aggressive soul. Not the one who
would declare in newspaper interviews: "I think I am an ambassador for
Islam". Shah Rukh is Shah Rukh, not because he is an ambassador for
Islam. If that was true, he could have found a room in Deoband. Fine
enough. But he became a heartthrob and a famousl star because he is a
great actor. He owes everything he has to Indians and not just to
Muslims. We love him not because he is some Mr Khan. We love him
because he has portrayed the dreams, aspirations, pains, anguish and
ups and downs of our daily life. As an Indian. As one of us.

If he wants to use our goodwill and love for strengthening his image
as an ambassador for Islam, will we have to think to put up an
ambassador for Hindus? That, at least to me, would be unacceptable
because I trust everyone: a Khan or a Kaul or a Singh or a Victor. Who
represents India represents us all too, including Hindus. My best
ambassadorship would be an ambassadorship for the tricolour and not
for anything else because I see my Ram and Dharma in that. I don't
think even an Amitabh or a Hritik would ever think in terms Shah Rukh
has chosen for himself. But shouldn't these big, tall, successful
Indians who wear Hindu names make a movie on why Kauls were ousted?
Why Godhra occurred in the first place? Why nobody, yes, not a single
Muslim, comes forward to take up the cause of the exiled and killed
and contemptuously marginalized Kauls whereas every Muslim complainant
would have essentially a Hindu advocate to take on Hindus as fiercely
as he can?

If you are Mr Khan and found dead on the railway tracks, the entire
nation would be shaken. And he was also a Rizwan. May be just a
coincidence that our Mr Khan in the movie is also a Rizwan.

Rizwan's death saw the police commissioner punished and cover stories
written by missionary writers. But if you are a Sharma or a Kaul and
happened to love an Ameena Yusuf in Srinagar, you would soon find
your corpse inside the police thana and NONE, not even a small-time
local paper would find it worthwhile to waste a column on you. No
police constable would be asked to explain how a wrongly detained
person was found dead in police custody?

Because the lover found dead inside a police thana was not Mr Khan. No
KJ would ever come forward to make a movie on 'My name is Kaul. And I
am terror-struck by Khans'.

Give me back my identity as an Indian, Mr. Khan and I would have no
problem even wearing your name and appreciating the tender love of an
autistic son.


Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)
#2907 From: sri venkat <ahvenkitesh@...>
Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 7:51 am
Subject: My name is not Khan, I am Mr Kaul 		viji123
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
  
My name is not Khan, I am Mr Kaul

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indus-calling/entry/my-name-is-not-khan

Tarun Vijay  Tuesday December 22, 2009
I am not Khan. My name bears a different set of four letters: K A U L.
Kaul. As those who know Indian names would understand I happened to be
born in a family which was called Hindu by others. Hence, we were
sure, we would never get a friend like KJ to make a movie on our
humiliations, and the contemptuous and forced exile from our homeland.
It's not fashionable. It's fashionable to get a Khan as a friend and
portray his agony and pains and sufferings when he is asked by a US
private to take off his shoes and show his socks. Natural and quite
justifiable that Khan must feel insulted and enraged. Enough Masala to
make a movie.

But unfortunately I am a Kaul. I am not a Khan.

Hence when my sisters and mothers were raped and killed, when
six-year-old Seema was witness to the brutal slaughtering of her
brother, mother and father with a butcher's knife by a Khan, nobody
ever came to make a movie on my agony, pain and anguish, and tears.

No KJ would make a movie on Kashmiri Hindus. Because we are not Khans.
We are Kauls.

When we look at our own selves as Kauls, we also see a macabre dance
of leaders who people Parliament. Some of them were really concerned
about us. They got the bungalows and acres of greenery and had  their
portraits  were worshipped by the gullible devotees of patriotism.

They made reservations in schools and colleges for us. In many many
other states. But never did they try that we go back to our homes.
They have other priorities and 'love your jihadi neighborhood'
programmes. They get flabbier and flabbier with the passing of each
year, sit on sacks of sermons; issue instructions to live simply and
follow moral principles delivered by ancestors and kept in documents
treated with time-tested preservatives.

They could play with me because my name is Kaul. And not Mr Khan. I
saw the trailer to this fabulous movie, which must do good business at
the box office.

There was not even a hint that terror is bad and it is worse if it is
perpetuated in the name of a religion that means Peace. Peace be upon
all its followers and all other the creatures too.

So you make a movie on the humiliation of taking off shoes to a
foreign police force which has decided not to allow another 9/11.

The humiliation of taking off the shoes and the urge to show that you
are innocent is really too deep. But what about the humiliation of
leaving your home and hearth and the world and the relatives and wife
and mother and father? And being forced to live in shabby tents, at
the mercy of nincompoop leaders encashing your misery and
bribe-seeking babus? And seeing your daughters growing up too sudden
and finding no place to hide your shame?

No KJ would ever come forward to make a movie, a telling,
spine-chilling narration on the celluloid, of five-year-old Seema, who
saw her parents and brother being slaughtered by a butcher's knife in
Doda. Because her dad was not Mr Khan. He was one Mr Kaul.

Sorry, Mr Kaul and your entire ilk. I can't help you.

It's not fashionable to side with those who are Kauls. And Rainas. And
Bhatts. Dismissively called KPs. KPs means Kashmiri Pandits. They are
a bunch of communalists. They were the agents of one Mr Jagmohan who
planned their exodus so that Khans can be blamed falsely. In fact, a
movie can be made on how these KPs conspired their own exile to give a
bad name to the loving and affectionate Khan brothers of the valley.

To voice the woes of Kauls is sinful. The right course to get counted
in the lists of the Prime Minister's banquets and the President's
parties is to announce from the roof top: hey, men and ladies, I am Mr
Khan.

The biggest apartheid the state observes is to exclude those who cry
for Kauls, wear the colours of  Ayodhya, love the wisdom of the
civilisational heritage, dare to assert as Hindus in  a land which is
known as Hindustan too and  struggle to live with dignity as Kauls.
They are out and exiled. You can see any list of honours and invites
to summits and late-evening gala parties to toast a new brand. All
that the Kauls are allowed is a space at Jantar Mantar: shout, weep
and go back to your tents after a tiring demonstration. Mr Kaul, you
have got a wrong name.

A dozen KJs would fly to take you atop the glory - posts and gardens
of sympathies if you accept to wear a Khan name and love a Sunita,
Pranita, Komal or a Kamini. Well, here you have a sweetheart in
Mandira. That goes well with the story.

And you pegged the movie plot on autism.

I wept. It was too much. I wept as a father of a son who needed a
story as an Indian. Who cares for his autistic son, his relationship
with the western world, his love affair with a young  sweet something
as a human, as someone whose heart goes beyond being a Hindu, a Muslim
or a proselytizing Vatican-centric aggressive soul. Not the one who
would declare in newspaper interviews: "I think I am an ambassador for
Islam".  Shah Rukh is Shah Rukh, not because he is an ambassador for
Islam. If that was true, he could have found a room in Deoband. Fine
enough. But he became a heartthrob and a famousl star because he is a
great actor. He owes everything he has to Indians and not just to
Muslims. We love him not because he is some Mr Khan. We love him
because he has portrayed the dreams, aspirations, pains, anguish and
ups and downs of our daily life. As  an Indian. As one of us.

If he wants to use our goodwill and love for strengthening his image
as an ambassador for Islam, will we have to think to put up an
ambassador for Hindus? That, at least to me, would be unacceptable
because I trust everyone: a Khan or a Kaul or a Singh or a Victor. Who
represents India represents us all too, including Hindus. My best
ambassadorship would be an ambassadorship for the tricolour and not
for anything else because I see my Ram and Dharma in that. I don't
think even an Amitabh or a Hritik would ever think in terms Shah Rukh
has chosen for himself.  But shouldn't these big, tall, successful
Indians who wear Hindu names make a movie on why Kauls were ousted?
Why Godhra occurred in the first place? Why nobody, yes, not a single
Muslim, comes forward to take up the cause of the exiled and killed
and contemptuously marginalized Kauls whereas every Muslim complainant
would have essentially a Hindu advocate to take on Hindus as fiercely
as he can?

If you are Mr Khan and found dead on the railway tracks, the entire
nation would be shaken. And he was also a Rizwan. May be just a
coincidence that our Mr Khan in the movie is also a Rizwan.

Rizwan's death saw the police commissioner punished and cover stories
written by missionary writers. But if you are a Sharma or a Kaul and
happened to love an  Ameena Yusuf in Srinagar, you would soon find
your corpse inside the police thana and NONE, not even a small-time
local paper would find it worthwhile to waste a column on you.  No
police constable would be asked to explain how a wrongly detained
person was found dead in police custody?

Because the lover found dead inside a police thana was not Mr Khan. No
KJ would ever come forward to make a movie on 'My name is Kaul. And I
am terror-struck by Khans'.

Give me back my identity as an Indian, Mr. Khan and I would have no
problem even wearing your name and appreciating the tender love of an
autistic son.

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (3)
#2906 From: "N C Gupta" <ncgupta38@...>
Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 4:04 am
Subject: Great thoughts for 2010 		ncgupta38
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 

Dear All,

 

Give this heart to everyone you don't want to
lose in '09 including me if you care.

Try to collect 5, it's not easy!

'Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.'

A sharp tongue can cut your own throat.

If you
want your dreams to come true, you mustn't
oversleep.

Of all
the things you wear, your expression is the most
important.



The best
vitamin for making friends...... B1.

The
happiness of your life depends on the quality of
your thoughts.

the
heaviest thing you can carry is a
grudge..

One
thing you can give and still keep....is your
word.


�

You lie
the loudest when you lie to yourself.

If
you lack the courage to start, you have already
finished.

One thing you can't recycle is
wasted time.

Ideas
won't work unless ' You' do.

Your
mind is like a parachute...it functions only
when open.


The 10
commandments are not a multiple
choice.

The
pursuit of happiness is the chase of a lifetime!
It is never too late to become what you might
have been.



Life is too short to wake up with regrets.. So love
the people who treat you right.. Forget about the
ones who don't. Believe everything happens for a reason. If you
get a second chance, grab it with both hands. If
it changes your life, let it. Nobody said life
would be easy, they just promised it would be
worth it.


Friends are like balloons;
once you let them go, you might not get them
back. Sometimes we get so busy with our own
lives and problems that we may not even notice
that we've let them fly away. Sometimes we are so
caught up in who's right and who's wrong that we
forget what's right and wrong.. Sometimes we just
don't realize what real friendship means until it
is too late. I don't want to let that happen so
I'm going to tie you to my heart so I never lose
you.

Send
this to all your friends including me and see
how many you get back. Even send it to your
balloons that you think have flown away forever.
You may be surprised to see it return.

Send this heart to everybody that
has touched your life in a positive
way.

Thank you for being
in my life!!!

�

�

 

 


Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)
#2905 From: Parvez Jamasji <parvez1942@...>
Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:32 am
Subject: FORFEITED RIGHTS Fw:indianveterans]Powerful speech from "A few good men" 		parvez1942
Online Now Online Now
Send Email Send Email
 
All Howlers who Call for application of "Rule of Law, Human Rights"; to terrorists, Criminals child lifters & Rapists - are NOBLE Hypocrites.
They haven't solved any Problems for protecting the Aam Janta from these Psycho Predators.  
 
These self styled "Do Gooders" will get a perspective of Reality by clicking :
 
. . . .I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it.
. . . . Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a weapon and stand a post." \\\\\
- A Few Good Men - Jack Nickolson
 
Those who  Haven't Cared for the Rule of Law & Human Rights themselves, FORFEITED their Rights to them.
  
P

--- On Thu, 24/12/09, B Bates <balraj.bates@...> wrote:
From: B Bates <balraj.bates@...>
Subject:[indianveterans] Powerful speech from movie "A few good men"
To: "Indian Veterans" <indianveterans@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, 24 December, 2009, 8:32 PM
 
 
Another powerful speech from the movie "A few good men'.
 
It's words are: 
"We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use then as the backbone of a life trying to defend something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said 'thank you', and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a weapon and stand a post." - A Few Good Men - Jack Nickolson
 
B Bates
 

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (1)
#2904 From: Krishnaraj Rao <sahasipadyatri@...>
Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:00 pm
Subject: Govt of India gives silly answer to Legal Notice on CIC Selection 		sahasipadyatri@...
Send Email Send Email
 

Replying to our legal notice served on November 26 ’09 about mandatory disclosures required under Section 4 about CIC Selections, Mr R K Girdhar, Under Secretary (RTI), DoPT, sent a copy-paste of Section 12(3) of RTI Act 2005, and added that minutes of meeting of Prime Minister’s selection committee could be provided upon request.

 

To this, Advocate Rasheed Qureshi sent a rejoinder – another legal notice -- stating: “You have not addressed the legal requirements called for in the legal notice. You have merely quoted Section 12(3) of the RTI Act, 2005 which is a matter of record and does not need reiteration. Moreover, your offer to provide the minutes of the meeting of the Committee would not absolve you to make mandatory disclosures as per Section 4 of the said Act… I call upon you to make the said disclosures expeditiously, failing which my client(s) shall be constrained to take legal redress through court.”

 

Read the full legal notice, DoPT’s reply and our rejoinder here:  http://www.box.net/shared/iv7tcs8iz2

 

Warm Regards,

Krish

98215 88114


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#2903 From: Parvez Jamasji <parvez1942@...>
Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:46 pm
Subject: Practice & Preaching to Coinside ? Re:A Muslims' tribute to Jesus on this Christmas day 		parvez1942
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. . . . In the Qur’aan, God says, he sent a messenger to every tribe, every nation and every people to create harmony and peace among themselves. \\\\\

Poor God  ! Lost Power ?
S\He didn't know that his enthusiastic followers UNDID his\her plans

 

Track Record :

 

The followers are mightier than God by ignoring Her\His edicts, they have made the "Followers" the target of Ridicule & Alienation for practising the OPPOSITE of what is preached.

While the Silent majority sits on the fence to await the outcome of the Armageddon & then side with the Winners 

 
Best Wishes for the Season.
 
 
E     :   parvez1942@...
        :   parvezjamasji@...
 
Tel   : 91-22-2412 1656 > 9 am to 9 pm = GMT + 5 1/2 hrs.
Mob  : 91 - 9820813951 \ 98201 88926
Minoo Mansion, 799 J J Road, Dadar, Bombay - 400 014, India


--- On Thu, 24/12/09, The FoundationforPluralism <thejournalofpluralism@...> wrote:
From: The FoundationforPluralism <thejournalofpluralism@...>
Subject: A Muslims' tribute to Jesus on this Christmas day
To: parvez1942@...
Date: Thursday, 24 December, 2009, 2:10 PM

A tribute to Jesus

 
A tribute to Jesus on this Christmas;
What does it mean to be religious?
.
Mike Ghouse

This column is dedicated to Rev. Petra Weldes of the Center for Spiritual Living in Dallas. Some of my conversation with her inspired me to write this tribute to Jesus and what it means to be religious.
 
http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2009/12/tribute-to-jesus.html

When Jesus calls on us to follow him, Krishna suggests us to surrender to him, Allah asks us to submit to his will and every spiritual master shares that wisdom in one form or the other, what could they mean?

By the way Jesus did not call on Christians to follow him, he called on humanity to follow him, neither Allah in Qur’aan addresses Muslims, and he addresses the universe from the very first line.

The bottom line: Every effort was made to pull one up from one’s selfish interests that are a source of conflicts with other’s selfish interests, to the larger interests of the society which paved way for peace and long term security of every one. The idea applies to the nations as well, what is good for me has got to be good for others and vice-versa for a sustainable balance in the society. We cannot have advantages at the cost of others; such benefits are temporary and deleterious to lasting peace.

Whether you are a painter, artist, poet, tailor, sculptor, mechanic, teacher, chef, engineer, doctor or a builder, you want your output to be good, pleasant, durable, sustainable and co-exist in harmony with its surroundings. God is no different, like a mother, he, she or it wants his creation to co-exist in harmony.

Through the teachers, the creator has communicated that wisdom to everyone of the seven billion of us; for example in one version, Krishna says whenever the balance in a society is lost (adharma), some wise man or woman will emerge from among them and restore that elusive balance to the society (bring righteousness - dharma). In the Qur’aan, God says, he sent a messenger to every tribe, every nation and every people to create harmony and peace among themselves.

You can see that act played out by Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, Bahaullah, Nanak, Buddha, Mahavir, Confucius, Zarathushtra, Gandhi and a host of shamans in every native, and earth based traditions. No one is left out; we need to respect the work of each one of them to honor God. Even among Atheists there will be one who will work on creating peace within and with others. They all have done what a representative of Goodness (or God) ought to do; cultivate a culture of harmony and co-existence, isn’t that religious?

Indeed, you do have a peace maker amongst you; on your board, at your school, city council, business, church or a social club. That one person brings the relief.

It is from this perspective; I share the thought that, to be religious is to be a mitigater of conflicts and a nurturer of goodwill. Each one of us has to ask ourselves every moment of the day, is my act, my thoughts and my words mitigate or aggravate a conflict? Do I see the wisdom in the teachings of the great masters? Am I religious? (One does not have to believe in God to be religious, an Atheist can be religious in the sense, he or she wants to create harmony by mitigating conflicts and nurturing goodwill).

In the name of the creator, whatever name we choose to call or in the interests of co-existence, and in the name of our great teacher Jesus, let’s commit to be the mitigater of conflicts and nurturers of goodwill, on his on his birthday to honor him.

Let’s believe in his message of loving even our enemies is good for us as individuals and the society. Together, let us all see the beauty and wisdom of his teachings without any reserve. Let’s us all receive his message of goodness today and become religious.

Merry Christmas, May God tempt you to be religious and to be like Jesus.

Mike Ghouse is a thinker, writer speaker and an activist of pluralism, interfaith, co-existence, peace, Islam and India. He is a frequent guest at the TV, radio and print media offering pluralistic solutions to issues of the day. His three websites and 22 Blogs are listed on http://www.mikeghouse.net/

Feel free to write your comments: http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2009/12/tribute-to-jesus.html#comments


This message was sent from The FoundationforPluralism to parvez1942@.... It was sent from: Mike Ghouse, 2665 Villa Creek Drive, Suite 206, Dallas, TX 75234. You can modify/update your subscription via the link below.

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#2902 From: Parvez Jamasji <parvez1942@...>
Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:18 am
Subject: police will save n-b-p, as they SAVED Mumbai 26/11/2008 		parvez1942
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. . . . Director IDSA Mr. N.S. Sisodia an IAS Officer said that if Defence Forces are given more powers, they will seize power like Pakistan and Bangladesh \\\\\\\\
   
DESPITE neta-babu-police LIES, the Fauj has not seized power in the last 62 years, nor intends to transfer n-b-p's HEADACHE to IT'S SELF.
 
At the PERIL of the Aam Janta, neta-babu-police ignores what the Aam Janta says having cocooned themselves in NSG Cover
 
EXPOSED ON 26/11/2008 : Lack of Integrity KILLED, Arrogance of POWER - to ignore training, KILLED; Mindset - to CASUALLY wear bullet proof jackets; KILLED.  
Isn't this THE HALLMARK of the neta-babu-police?  
 
The obvious n-b-p IQ, to hobble the Fauj by neglect, InJustice & InEquity; in the hope the police will save them; as they SAVED Mumbai 26/11/2008. Ludicrous ! 
 
P
 
 

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#2901 From: sri venkat <ahvenkitesh@...>
Date: Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:27 pm
Subject: A Run on the Dollar Starts Soon: Within next 12 the U.S. Treasury will have to refinance $2 trillion in short-term debt 		viji123
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A Run on the Dollar Starts Soon
By Porter Stansberry

http://www.dailywealth.com/archive/2009/nov/2009_nov_28.asp

It's one of those numbers that's so unbelievable you have to actually
think about it for a while...

Within the next 12 months, the U.S. Treasury will have to refinance $2
trillion in short-term debt. And that's not counting any additional
deficit spending, which is estimated to be around $1.5 trillion.

Put the two numbers together. Then ask yourself, how in the world can
the Treasury borrow $3.5 trillion in only one year? That's an amount
equal to nearly 30% of our entire GDP. And we're the world's biggest
economy. Where will the money come from?

How did we end up with so much short-term debt? Like most entities
that have far too much debt – whether subprime borrowers, GM, Fannie,
or GE – the U.S. Treasury has tried to minimize its interest burden by
borrowing for short durations and then "rolling over" the loans when
they come due. As they say on Wall Street, "a rolling debt collects no
moss."

What they mean is, as long as you can extend the debt, you have no
problem. Unfortunately, that leads folks to take on ever greater
amounts of debt... at ever shorter durations... at ever lower interest
rates. Sooner or later, the creditors wake up and ask themselves: What
are the chances I will ever actually be repaid? And that's when the
trouble starts. Interest rates go up dramatically. Funding costs soar.
The party is over. Bankruptcy is next.

When governments go bankrupt, it's called a "default." Currency
speculators figured out how to accurately predict when a country would
default. Two well-known economists – Alan Greenspan and Pablo Guidotti
– published the secret formula in a 1999 academic paper. The formula
is called the Greenspan-Guidotti rule.

The rule states: To avoid a default, countries should maintain hard
currency reserves equal to at least 100% of their short-term foreign
debt maturities. The world's largest money-management firm, PIMCO,
explains the rule this way: "The minimum benchmark of reserves equal
to at least 100% of short-term external debt is known as the
Greenspan-Guidotti rule. Greenspan-Guidotti is perhaps the single
concept of reserve adequacy that has the most adherents and empirical
support."

The principle behind the rule is simple. If you can't pay off all of
your foreign debts in the next 12 months, you're a terrible credit
risk. Speculators are going to target your bonds and your currency,
making it impossible to refinance your debts. A default is assured.

So how does America rank on the Greenspan-Guidotti scale? It's a
guaranteed default.

The U.S. holds gold, oil, and foreign currency in reserve. It has
8,133.5 metric tonnes of gold (it is the world's largest holder). At
current dollar values, it's worth around $300 billion. The U.S.
strategic petroleum reserve shows a current total position of 725
million barrels. At current dollar prices, that's roughly $58 billion
worth of oil. And according to the IMF, the U.S. has $136 billion in
foreign currency reserves. So altogether... that's around $500 billion
of reserves. Our short-term foreign debts are far bigger.

According to the U.S. Treasury, $2 trillion worth of debt will mature
in the next 12 months. So looking only at short-term debt, we know the
Treasury will have to finance at least $2 trillion worth of maturing
debt in the next 12 months. That might not cause a crisis if we were
still funding our national debt internally. But since 1985, we've been
a net debtor to the world. Today, foreigners own 44% of all our debts,
which means we owe foreign creditors at least $880 billion in the next
12 months – an amount far larger than our reserves.

Keep in mind, this only covers our existing debts. The Office of
Management and Budget is predicting a $1.5 trillion budget deficit
over the next year. That puts our total funding requirements on the
order of $3.5 trillion over the next 12 months.

So... where will the money come from? Total domestic savings in the
U.S. are only around $600 billion annually. Even if we all put every
penny of our savings into U.S. Treasury debt, we're still going to
come up nearly $3 trillion short. That's an annual funding requirement
equal to roughly 40% of GDP.

Where is the money going to come from? From our foreign creditors? Not
according to Greenspan-Guidotti. And not according to the Indian or
Russian central banks, which have stopped buying Treasury bills and
begun to buy enormous amounts of gold. The Indians bought 200 metric
tonnes this month. Sources in Russia say the central bank there will
double its gold reserves.

So where will the money come from? The printing press. The Federal
Reserve has already monetized nearly $2 trillion worth of Treasury
debt and mortgage debt. This weakens the value of the dollar and
devalues our existing Treasury bonds. Sooner or later, our creditors
will face a stark choice: Hold our bonds and continue to see the value
diminish slowly, or try to escape to gold and see the value of their
U.S. bonds plummet.

One thing they're not going to do is buy more of our debt. Which
central banks will abandon the dollar next? Brazil, Korea, and Chile.
These are the three largest central banks that own the least amount of
gold. None owns even 1% of its total reserves in gold.

All of this is going to lead to a severe devaluation of the U.S.
dollar... Which I expect to happen within 18 months. I examined these
issues in much greater detail in the most recent issue of my
newsletter, Porter Stansberry's Investment Advisory, which was
published last week. Coincidentally, America's paper of record – the
New York Times – repeated our warnings (nearly word for word) last
weekend. Word is getting out.

If you haven't taken steps to protect yourself from the coming
devaluation – like owning gold and silver bullion, foreign real
estate, and farmland – make sure you do it soon. The dollar rout is
coming.

Good investing,

Porter Stansberry

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#2900 From: "N C Gupta" <ncgupta38@...>
Date: Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:46 pm
Subject: FW: Your contract of friendship has been renewed for the New Year 2010! 		ncgupta38
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Dear All,

This is the wish chain from my daughter Anubha. I liked it and share

 with you all for your best life in 2010.

 Regards.

 N.C.Gupta

 

From: Naveen Gupta [mailto:ncgupta38@...]
Sent: 22 December 2009 15:21
To: Naveen Gupta
Subject: Fwd: Your contract of friendship has been renewed for the New Year 2010!

 

 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: anubhagmail <goyal.anubha@...>
Date: Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 12:19 PM
Subject: Your contract of friendship has been renewed for the New Year 2010!
To:

Thanks a lot for the fantastic new year wishes Anil Bhaisaheb

I am forwarding the same to all my friends and relatives for renewal of contract with them

 

Friendship 2010 Contract

After serious & cautious consideration... Your contract of friendship has been renewed for the New Year 2010!

It was a very hard decision to make... So try not to screw it up!!!

My Wish for You in 2010

May peace break into your home and may thieves come to steal your debts. 

May the pockets of your jeans become a magnet for $100 bills. 

May love stick to your face like Vaseline and may laughter assault your lips!

May happiness slap you across the face and may your tears be that of joy

May the problems you had, forget your home address! 

In simple words ............

May 2010 be the best year of your life!!!

Regards
Anubha Goyal, Technical Director & Incharge NIC-MoRD Project Cell,
(O) : 274A, Krishi Bhawan (Ph) 91-11-23381312 ; IP Phone 6205
(M) : 9810705227;  Email : anubhag@...




--
N C Gupta
Managing Director
NAV KRISHI TRACTORS PVT. LTD.
128 C, Gandhinagar, Ghaziabad, UP, India
91-120-2712005, FAX- 91-11-26266666
9818368369 (Mobile)


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