Hi Rosa, DPR = digital pali reader, which is a must have. you can get it
from here:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/digitalpali/

Really fantastic work they did on that project. Huge time saver, space
saver, etc...

Which program and pali canon did you use to produce the search that
resulted in about 68 finds of the phrase

     “What should be done for his disciples out of compassion by a Teacher
     who seeks their welfare and has compassion for them,
     that I have done for you, Ananda.
     There are these roots of trees,
     these empty huts.
     Meditate, Ananda,
     do not delay,
     or else you will regret it later.
     This is our instruction to you.”


-Frank






On 1/5/2010 10:42 AM, Rosa Grau gmail wrote:
>
> Frank,
>
> I searched for jāyatha, maybe that explains the discrepancies. I can
> do another search if necessary. What is DPR, by the way?
>
> Rosa
>
> _____
>
> From: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>] On
> Behalf Of frank
> Sent: dimarts, 5 / gener / 2010 17:27
> To: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do
> jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe
> Vinaya Rules?, no 5.
>
> Thanks Rosa! I had the impression the phrase was even more frequent than
> that, but it's probably because there are certain key suttas such as [M
> 152] that I tend to re-read frequently, resulting in that impression.
> Playing around this morning I just realized DPR can do a much wider
> search than only the current window/sutta. Doing the widest search for
> "empty hut" in DPR results in:
> Search Results for *su~n~naagaaraani: * DN:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfDN')> 0, MN:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfMN')> 4, SN:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfSN')> 7, AN:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAN')> 4, KN:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfKN')> 0, Vin:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfVin')> 0, Abhi:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAbhi')> 0
>
> The lack of results in Samyutta presumably is due to the "..." sutta
> repetitions that are ellipsed out. I manually looked through the ending
> page of each of the 34 DN suttas (maurice walshe version) yesterday,
> and confirmed the lack of the phrase in DN. Your search results below
> found 3 occurences in MN, DPR reported 4, I'm going to look into that
> discrepancy right now and get back to you guys later today or tomorrow...
>
> -Frank
>
> On 1/5/2010 12:25 AM, Rosa Grau gmail wrote:
> >
> > Your search results:
> >
> > 1 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, māpamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 2 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni jhāyatha
bhikkhave,
> > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 3 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
bhikkhave,
> > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino MN I_utf8.txt
> >
> > 4 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave,
> > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 5 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 6 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 7 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 8 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 9 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 10 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 11 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 12 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 13 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 14 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 15 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 16 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 17 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 18 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 19 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 20 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 21 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 22 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 23 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 24 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 25 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 26 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 27 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 28 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 29 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 30 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 31 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 32 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 33 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 34 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 35 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 36 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 37 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 38 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 39 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 40 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 41 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 42 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 43 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 44 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 45 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 46 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 47 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 48 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 49 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 50 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 51 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 52 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 53 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 54 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 55 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 56 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 57 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 58 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 59 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> > bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 60 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave
> > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 61 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave
> > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 62 ā. Etāni bhikkhu rukkhamūlāni. Etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
bhikkhu,
> > mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
> >
> > 63 . Etāni bhikkhu, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
bhikkhu,
> > mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
> >
> > 64 ayā. Etāni cunda rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
cunda mā
> > pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ahuv MN I_utf8.txt
> >
> > 65 āraṃ sumāpitaṃ, So tattha patisallino eko rahasi jhāyatha. 2615.
Sa
> > rājā paridevesi putatasokena aṭṭito, J IV_utf8.txt
> >
> > 66 khaluṅkajjhāyitaṃ hoti. 1. Saddho machasaṃ. 2. Jhāyatha sīmu. 3.
> > Bandho syā, [BJT Page 610] [\x 610/] AN V_utf8.txt
> >
> > 67 hamāne sampavedhamāne passatha dakkhatha oloketha jhāyatha
> > upaparikkhathāti 'mamāyite passatha phandamāne. ' Nidd I_utf8.txt
> >
> > 68 ā. Etāni ānanda, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
ānanda,
> > mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ah MN II_utf8.txt
> >
> > Rosa
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com
> <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
> > [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com
> <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>] On
> > Behalf Of frank
> > Sent: dilluns, 4 / gener / 2010 17:40
> > To: Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com
> <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do
> > jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe
> > Vinaya Rules?, no 5.
> >
> > on compulsory meditation:
> > I was just reading [S 43] yesterday, the samyutta on asankhata (the
> > unconditoned, i.e. nibbana). This would be CDOB p. 1372. On the DPI,
> > Samyutta book 4, vaggo 9. I could be misreading the "..." ellipses that
> > reduce repetition, but it looks to me as if every single sutta in that
> > samyutta ends with the famous sequence of "here is a foot of a tree, an
> > empty hut, do jhana monks...":
> >
> > (cut and paste stock phrase from DPI)
> > yam., <javascript:postout('ya.m,',849)> bhikkhave,
> > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',850)> sattha-ra-
> > <javascript:postout('satthaaraa',851)> karan.i-yam.
> > <javascript:postout('kara.niiya.m',852)> sa-vaka-nam.
> > <javascript:postout('saavakaana.m',853)> hitesina-
> > <javascript:postout('hitesinaa',854)> anukampakena
> > <javascript:postout('anukampakena',855)> anukampam.
> > <javascript:postout('anukampa.m',856)> upa-da-ya,
> > <javascript:postout('upaadaaya,',857)> katam.
> > <javascript:postout('kata.m',858)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',859)>
> > tam. <javascript:postout('ta.m',860)> maya-.
> > <javascript:postout('mayaa.',861)> eta-ni,
> > <javascript:postout('etaani,',862)> bhikkhave,
> > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',863)> rukkhamu-la-ni,
> > <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
> > <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
> > <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
> > <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> bhikkhave,
> > <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',868)> ma-
> > <javascript:postout('maa',869)> pama-dattha;
> > <javascript:postout('pamaadattha;',870)> ma-
> > <javascript:postout('maa',871)> paccha-
> > <javascript:postout('pacchaa',872)> T <javascript:void(0)>
> > vippat.isa-rino <javascript:postout('vippa.tisaarino',874)> ahuvattha.
> > <javascript:postout('ahuvattha.',875)> ayam.
> > <javascript:postout('aya.m',876)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',877)>
> > amha-kam. <javascript:postout('amhaaka.m',878)> anusa-sani-"ti.
> > <javascript:postout('anusaasanii``ti.',879)> pat.hamam..
> > <javascript:postout('pa.thama.m.',880)>
> >
> > This whole section [S 43] deals with how unconditioned is arrived at via
> > mindfulness of body, samatha, vipassana, and the 37 aids to
> > enlightenment. After enumerating each set, it ends with the "... do
> > jhana monks... " phrase.
> > I wonder how many suttas in all the nikayas end with that paragraph? If
> > we remove suttas addressed to laity, etc, and only look at suttas
> > dealing with development of wisdom, concentration, mindfulness, I bet a
> > really high % of suttas end with "do jhanas, monks..." any tech savvy
> > people on this list ever do a search for " rukkhamu-la-ni,
> > <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
> > <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
> > <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
> > <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> " on the pali nikayas and tally
> > it up? We could get an answer to that question pretty quick.
> >
> > -Frank
> >
> > On 1/4/2010 3:14 AM, ashinpan wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Nina,
> > >
> > > Sorry, I have just come back from a trip hence this late reply.
> > >
> > > You wrote:
> > >
> > > > We are bound to be distressed about an unpleasant experience such as
> > > > an insult or a loss of dear people, but when we begin to develop
> > > > pa~n~naa we can gradually learn from such an experience. Sometimes,
> > > > when there are conditions, we may even be glad and full of
> confidence
> > > > in the Triple Gem, as we also read in this sutta:
> > > > < Tassa ce aavuso bhikkhuno eva.m Buddha.m anussarato eva.m Dhamma.m
> > > > anussarato eva.m Sa"nga.m anussarato
> > > > But if, when a bhikkhu recollects the Enlightened One, the Teaching
> > > > and the Community,
> > > > upekhaa kusalanissitaa sa.n.thaati, so tena attamano hoti...
> > > > equanimity with the beneficial (kusala dhamma) as its support,
> > > > becomes established in him, then he is satisfied.>
> > > >
> > > > Chapter I of the Visuddhimagga deals with siila, and passages on the
> > > > fourfold purification of siila can also be partly applied by a
> > > > layfollower in his own situation. We read in the Visuddhimagga (I,
> > > > 100, 101), that restraint of the sense faculties should be
> undertaken
> > > > with mindfulness, and <When not undertaken thus, virtue of
> Patimokkha
> > > > restraint is unenduring: it does not last, like a crop not fenced in
> > > > with branches...>
> > > > Also laypeople can remember that without satipa.t.thaana one is
> bound
> > > > to give in to akusala in thought, speech and action, there will be
> > > > impatience and intolerance.
> > > > We read in Vis. I, 49-51:
> > > > <Proper resort as support: a good friend. Proper resort as guarding.
> > > > Proper resort as anchoring:<It is the four foundations of
> mindfulness
> > > > on which the mind is anchored; for this is said by the Blessed
> > > > One:'Bhikkhus, what is a bhikkhu's resort, his own native place? It
> > > > is these four "foundations of mindfulness" (S.V, 148).>
> > > > These are like an anchor both for monks and laypeople.
> > > >
> > > > The following text of the Diigha Nikaaya, Mahaaparibbaanasutta (80)
> > > > shows clearly the impact of aniccaa sa~n~naa and anattaa sa~n~naa on
> > > > siila, good morality as to thought, speech and action. This
> > > > encouraging text that refers to the Order of monks is also
> beneficial
> > > > for laypeople:
> > > >
> > > > <So long as the brethren shall exercise themselves in the
> realization
> > > > of the ideas of the impermanency of all phenomena, bodily and
> mental,
> > > > the absence [in them of any abiding principle] of any "soul", of
> > > > corruption, of the danger of wrong thoughts, of the necessity of
> > > > getting rid of them, of purity of heart, of Nibbaana- so long
> may the
> > > > brethren be expected not to decline, but to prosper.>
> > >
> > > I agree with your comments and conclusions. All the sources you have
> > > quoted are from the Sutta Pi.taka, where we can meet the Buddha as a
> > > guide, as a patient teacher. However, in Vinaya we see the Buddha as
> > > an enforcer of law who practiced the policy of "carrot or stick". All
> > > Paatimokkha precepts, for example, are in the format of "Don't do this
> > > or else".
> > >
> > > I agree that meditation like satipa.t.thaana can really help
> > > individual monks to observe Vinaya rules but there is no rule to force
> > > monks to meditate. I sometimes wonder why the Buddha has not made
> > > meditation compulsory for monks.
> > >
> > > with metta
> > >
> > > Ven. Pandita
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for the input Ria.
I'll have to learn more about flexions and Pali rules before I can
confidently enter better search strings.
-Frank

On 1/5/2010 1:08 PM, grasje wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear Frank,
>
> "empty hut" appears in the satipatthana sutta as well, then as
> su~n~naagaaragato. In the MN this word appears 7 times.
> If I skip the ending "ato", DPR finds suññ�?g�?ragat�?pi (2) and
> su~n~naagaaragatopi (1) as well
> In all situations the word is preceded by "foot of a tree".
>
> The SN rends suññ�?g�?ragat�?na�f (1) and su~n~naagaaragato (15)
>
> There might be other flexions that I am not aware of. This is as far
> as my Pali goes.
>
> The -pe- repeats are not written out as complete text in the DPR, as
> far as I know, so you might want to check those in an other way. If
> you can do that on the plain pali text, here is how you can get it all
> in your wordprocessor:
>
> The whole SN is in 5 files on your computer. The files are in the
> directory
> Program files\DPR\DPR\xml\s1m.xml ; S2m ---S5m. The S1a files are the
> commentaries.
> If you want to open the files directly it is better first to make a
> copy and save that copy in another directory. DPR will refuse to read
> files that have been saved by a normal wordprocessor. You can open the
> copy in a standard wordprocessor as long as you won't try to use the
> same file in your browser afterwards. The wordprocessor will process
> all the HTML-code and convert it to quite readable Velthuis, but still
> mixed with some stuff I don't understand.
>
> BTW the directory DPPN contains the dictionary of pali proper names.
> CSS contains the layout of the pages, etc contains the dictionaries,
> images contains images and js contains javascript, the actions
> happening when you click on one of the buttons. XML contains the
> tipitaka and the commentaries.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Ria Glas
>
> --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, frank
> <fcckuan@...> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Rosa! I had the impression the phrase was even more frequent
> than
> > that, but it's probably because there are certain key suttas such as [M
> > 152] that I tend to re-read frequently, resulting in that impression.
> > Playing around this morning I just realized DPR can do a much wider
> > search than only the current window/sutta. Doing the widest search for
> > "empty hut" in DPR results in:
> > Search Results for *su~n~naagaaraani: * DN:
> > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfDN')> 0, MN:
> > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfMN')> 4, SN:
> > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfSN')> 7, AN:
> > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAN')> 4, KN:
> > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfKN')> 0, Vin:
> > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfVin')> 0, Abhi:
> > <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAbhi')> 0
> >
> > The lack of results in Samyutta presumably is due to the "..." sutta
> > repetitions that are ellipsed out. I manually looked through the ending
> > page of each of the 34 DN suttas (maurice walshe version) yesterday,
> > and confirmed the lack of the phrase in DN. Your search results below
> > found 3 occurences in MN, DPR reported 4, I'm going to look into that
> > discrepancy right now and get back to you guys later today or
> tomorrow...
> >
> > -Frank
> >
> >
> >
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear DC,
Op 4-jan-2010, om 18:41 heeft DC Wijeratna het volgende geschreven:

> 1) Why do you tranlate 'me' as 'in me'? 'In me would be locative.
> "me' is usually, instrumental, dat, or gen.
------
N: Strictly: for me, but I think for the sake of the English, John
translated it as in me. (I mostly follow his translation). Also Piya:
<The knowledge and vision arose in me>
------
> (2) You translate dhammacakkhu as 'eye of dhamma'. Later on you
> change it to 'vision of dhamma'. The two words 'eye' and 'vision'
> could be related but they are two different things. It would be
> better to be consistent, I think.Most probably dhamma-eye would
> emphasize the technical nature of the word.
------
N: Dassana.m: vision. The meaning of eye of Dhamma will be elaborated
on shortly later on in the commentary.  Dassana.m: seeing or vision.
---------

> (3) This is quite complex. Let me first say that I am not sure why
> I say, except it is a gut feeling.
> I refer to the translation of  "ya.m ki~nci samudayadhamma. m,
> sabba.m ta.m nirodhadhamman". You have translated this as:
> "Whatever is subject to arising, all that is subject to cessation".
> I can't find anything wrong with that.
> However, I feel samudayadhamma refers to the first noble truth and
> nirodhadhamma.m to the the 3rd noble truth.
------
N: This is deep in meaning, it refers to the Dependent Origination.
We find a similar expression also after each section of the
Satipa.t.thaanasutta:samudayavayadhammaanupassii. Its co. gives us a
clue (The Way of Mindfulness, Soma Thera):

<Samudaya-dhammanupassi = "Contemplating origination-things." Also
dissolution-things are included here. Origination and dissolution
should be dwelt upon by way of the fivefold method beginning with the
words: "He, thinking 'the origination of materiality comes to be
through the origination of ignorance,' in the sense of the origin of
conditions, sees the arising of the aggregate of materiality.".....

In the same way he sees the arising of the aggregate of materiality
through the origination of craving, karma and food, in the sense of
the origin of conditions, and also while seeing the sign of birth
[nibbatti lakkhana passanto pi]. He sees the passing away of the
aggregate while thinking that the dissolution of materiality comes to
be through the dissolution of ignorance, in the sense of the
dissolution of conditions, and through the dissolution of craving,
karma and food, in the same way, and while seeing the sign of
vicissitude [viparinamalakkhana].

Similarly the knowledge of passing away or ceasing is fivefold. The
sign of vicissitude or change is the bare state of dissolution
[bhanga sabhava] called impermanency [aniccata]. >

One can realize the momentary arising and falling away of dhammas,
and one can also realize arising and passing away by way of direct
understanding of conditions as explained in the D.O. So long as there
is ignorance, the first link of the D.O. ,there will be the arising
of dhammas in the cycle. This is dukkha.
I cannot go into this more, time is limited since I have to finish
things before a break I will take in a few weeks.
------
Mara: has many meanings: it can mean the personification of evil,
like 'devil', but also there is kilesa mara, dukkha mara, death. All
that is dukkha and leads to dukkha is mara.
-------
Nina.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Frank,



I searched for jāyatha, maybe that explains the discrepancies. I can do another
search if necessary. What is DPR, by the way?



Rosa





   _____

From: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of frank
Sent: dimarts, 5 / gener / 2010 17:27
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do jhana..."
Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe Vinaya Rules?, no 5.





Thanks Rosa! I had the impression the phrase was even more frequent than
that, but it's probably because there are certain key suttas such as [M
152] that I tend to re-read frequently, resulting in that impression.
Playing around this morning I just realized DPR can do a much wider
search than only the current window/sutta. Doing the widest search for
"empty hut" in DPR results in:
Search Results for *su~n~naagaaraani: * DN:
<javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfDN')> 0, MN:
<javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfMN')> 4, SN:
<javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfSN')> 7, AN:
<javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAN')> 4, KN:
<javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfKN')> 0, Vin:
<javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfVin')> 0, Abhi:
<javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAbhi')> 0

The lack of results in Samyutta presumably is due to the "..." sutta
repetitions that are ellipsed out. I manually looked through the ending
page of each of the 34 DN suttas (maurice walshe version) yesterday,
and confirmed the lack of the phrase in DN. Your search results below
found 3 occurences in MN, DPR reported 4, I'm going to look into that
discrepancy right now and get back to you guys later today or tomorrow...

-Frank

On 1/5/2010 12:25 AM, Rosa Grau gmail wrote:
>
> Your search results:
>
> 1 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, māpamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 2 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni jhāyatha
bhikkhave,
> mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 3 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
bhikkhave,
> mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino MN I_utf8.txt
>
> 4 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave,
> mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 5 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 6 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 7 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 8 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 9 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 10 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 11 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 12 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 13 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 14 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 15 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 16 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 17 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 18 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 19 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 20 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 21 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 22 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 23 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 24 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 25 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 26 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 27 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 28 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 29 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 30 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 31 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 32 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 33 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 34 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 35 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 36 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 37 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 38 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 39 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 40 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 41 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 42 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 43 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 44 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 45 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 46 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 47 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 48 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 49 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 50 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 51 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 52 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 53 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 54 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 55 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 56 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 57 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 58 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 59 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 60 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave
> mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 61 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave
> mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 62 ā. Etāni bhikkhu rukkhamūlāni. Etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
bhikkhu,
> mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
>
> 63 . Etāni bhikkhu, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
bhikkhu,
> mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
>
> 64 ayā. Etāni cunda rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha cunda
mā
> pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ahuv MN I_utf8.txt
>
> 65 āraṃ sumāpitaṃ, So tattha patisallino eko rahasi jhāyatha. 2615. Sa
> rājā paridevesi putatasokena aṭṭito, J IV_utf8.txt
>
> 66 khaluṅkajjhāyitaṃ hoti. 1. Saddho machasaṃ. 2. Jhāyatha sīmu. 3.
> Bandho syā, [BJT Page 610] [\x 610/] AN V_utf8.txt
>
> 67 hamāne sampavedhamāne passatha dakkhatha oloketha jhāyatha
> upaparikkhathāti 'mamāyite passatha phandamāne. ' Nidd I_utf8.txt
>
> 68 ā. Etāni ānanda, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
ānanda,
> mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ah MN II_utf8.txt
>
> Rosa
>
> _____
>
> From: Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com
<mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com
<mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>] On
> Behalf Of frank
> Sent: dilluns, 4 / gener / 2010 17:40
> To: Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com
<mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do
> jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe
> Vinaya Rules?, no 5.
>
> on compulsory meditation:
> I was just reading [S 43] yesterday, the samyutta on asankhata (the
> unconditoned, i.e. nibbana). This would be CDOB p. 1372. On the DPI,
> Samyutta book 4, vaggo 9. I could be misreading the "..." ellipses that
> reduce repetition, but it looks to me as if every single sutta in that
> samyutta ends with the famous sequence of "here is a foot of a tree, an
> empty hut, do jhana monks...":
>
> (cut and paste stock phrase from DPI)
> yam., <javascript:postout('ya.m,',849)> bhikkhave,
> <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',850)> sattha-ra-
> <javascript:postout('satthaaraa',851)> karan.i-yam.
> <javascript:postout('kara.niiya.m',852)> sa-vaka-nam.
> <javascript:postout('saavakaana.m',853)> hitesina-
> <javascript:postout('hitesinaa',854)> anukampakena
> <javascript:postout('anukampakena',855)> anukampam.
> <javascript:postout('anukampa.m',856)> upa-da-ya,
> <javascript:postout('upaadaaya,',857)> katam.
> <javascript:postout('kata.m',858)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',859)>
> tam. <javascript:postout('ta.m',860)> maya-.
> <javascript:postout('mayaa.',861)> eta-ni,
> <javascript:postout('etaani,',862)> bhikkhave,
> <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',863)> rukkhamu-la-ni,
> <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
> <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
> <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
> <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> bhikkhave,
> <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',868)> ma-
> <javascript:postout('maa',869)> pama-dattha;
> <javascript:postout('pamaadattha;',870)> ma-
> <javascript:postout('maa',871)> paccha-
> <javascript:postout('pacchaa',872)> T <javascript:void(0)>
> vippat.isa-rino <javascript:postout('vippa.tisaarino',874)> ahuvattha.
> <javascript:postout('ahuvattha.',875)> ayam.
> <javascript:postout('aya.m',876)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',877)>
> amha-kam. <javascript:postout('amhaaka.m',878)> anusa-sani-"ti.
> <javascript:postout('anusaasanii``ti.',879)> pat.hamam..
> <javascript:postout('pa.thama.m.',880)>
>
> This whole section [S 43] deals with how unconditioned is arrived at via
> mindfulness of body, samatha, vipassana, and the 37 aids to
> enlightenment. After enumerating each set, it ends with the "... do
> jhana monks... " phrase.
> I wonder how many suttas in all the nikayas end with that paragraph? If
> we remove suttas addressed to laity, etc, and only look at suttas
> dealing with development of wisdom, concentration, mindfulness, I bet a
> really high % of suttas end with "do jhanas, monks..." any tech savvy
> people on this list ever do a search for " rukkhamu-la-ni,
> <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
> <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
> <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
> <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> " on the pali nikayas and tally
> it up? We could get an answer to that question pretty quick.
>
> -Frank
>
> On 1/4/2010 3:14 AM, ashinpan wrote:
> >
> >
> > Dear Nina,
> >
> > Sorry, I have just come back from a trip hence this late reply.
> >
> > You wrote:
> >
> > > We are bound to be distressed about an unpleasant experience such as
> > > an insult or a loss of dear people, but when we begin to develop
> > > pa~n~naa we can gradually learn from such an experience. Sometimes,
> > > when there are conditions, we may even be glad and full of confidence
> > > in the Triple Gem, as we also read in this sutta:
> > > < Tassa ce aavuso bhikkhuno eva.m Buddha.m anussarato eva.m Dhamma.m
> > > anussarato eva.m Sa"nga.m anussarato
> > > But if, when a bhikkhu recollects the Enlightened One, the Teaching
> > > and the Community,
> > > upekhaa kusalanissitaa sa.n.thaati, so tena attamano hoti...
> > > equanimity with the beneficial (kusala dhamma) as its support,
> > > becomes established in him, then he is satisfied.>
> > >
> > > Chapter I of the Visuddhimagga deals with siila, and passages on the
> > > fourfold purification of siila can also be partly applied by a
> > > layfollower in his own situation. We read in the Visuddhimagga (I,
> > > 100, 101), that restraint of the sense faculties should be undertaken
> > > with mindfulness, and <When not undertaken thus, virtue of Patimokkha
> > > restraint is unenduring: it does not last, like a crop not fenced in
> > > with branches...>
> > > Also laypeople can remember that without satipa.t.thaana one is bound
> > > to give in to akusala in thought, speech and action, there will be
> > > impatience and intolerance.
> > > We read in Vis. I, 49-51:
> > > <Proper resort as support: a good friend. Proper resort as guarding.
> > > Proper resort as anchoring:<It is the four foundations of mindfulness
> > > on which the mind is anchored; for this is said by the Blessed
> > > One:'Bhikkhus, what is a bhikkhu's resort, his own native place? It
> > > is these four "foundations of mindfulness" (S.V, 148).>
> > > These are like an anchor both for monks and laypeople.
> > >
> > > The following text of the Diigha Nikaaya, Mahaaparibbaanasutta (80)
> > > shows clearly the impact of aniccaa sa~n~naa and anattaa sa~n~naa on
> > > siila, good morality as to thought, speech and action. This
> > > encouraging text that refers to the Order of monks is also beneficial
> > > for laypeople:
> > >
> > > <So long as the brethren shall exercise themselves in the realization
> > > of the ideas of the impermanency of all phenomena, bodily and mental,
> > > the absence [in them of any abiding principle] of any "soul", of
> > > corruption, of the danger of wrong thoughts, of the necessity of
> > > getting rid of them, of purity of heart, of Nibbaana- so long may the
> > > brethren be expected not to decline, but to prosper.>
> >
> > I agree with your comments and conclusions. All the sources you have
> > quoted are from the Sutta Pi.taka, where we can meet the Buddha as a
> > guide, as a patient teacher. However, in Vinaya we see the Buddha as
> > an enforcer of law who practiced the policy of "carrot or stick". All
> > Paatimokkha precepts, for example, are in the format of "Don't do this
> > or else".
> >
> > I agree that meditation like satipa.t.thaana can really help
> > individual monks to observe Vinaya rules but there is no rule to force
> > monks to meditate. I sometimes wonder why the Buddha has not made
> > meditation compulsory for monks.
> >
> > with metta
> >
> > Ven. Pandita
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Frank,

"empty hut" appears in the satipatthana sutta as well, then as
su~n~naagaaragato. In the MN this word appears 7 times.
If I skip the ending "ato", DPR finds suññāgāragatāpi (2) and 
su~n~naagaaragatopi (1) as well
In all situations the word is preceded by "foot of a tree".

The SN rends suññāgāragatānaṃ (1) and su~n~naagaaragato (15)

There might be other flexions that I am not aware of. This is as far as my Pali
goes.

The -pe- repeats are not written out as complete text in the DPR, as far as I
know, so you might want to check those in an other way. If you can do that on
the plain pali text, here is how you can get it all in your wordprocessor:

The whole SN is in 5 files on your computer. The files are in the directory
Program files\DPR\DPR\xml\s1m.xml ; S2m ---S5m. The S1a files are the
commentaries.
If you want to open the files directly it is better first to make a copy and
save that copy in another directory. DPR will refuse to read files that have
been saved by a normal wordprocessor. You can open the copy in a standard
wordprocessor as long as you won't try to use the same file in your browser
afterwards. The wordprocessor will process all the HTML-code and convert it to
quite readable Velthuis, but still mixed with some stuff I don't understand.

BTW the directory DPPN contains the dictionary of pali proper names.
CSS contains the layout of the pages, etc contains the dictionaries, images
contains images and js contains javascript, the actions happening when you click
on one of the buttons. XML contains the tipitaka and the commentaries.

Kind regards,

Ria Glas


--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, frank <fcckuan@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Rosa! I had the impression the phrase was even more frequent than
> that, but it's probably because there are certain key suttas such as [M
> 152] that I tend to re-read frequently, resulting in that impression.
> Playing around this morning I just realized DPR can do a much wider
> search than only the current window/sutta. Doing the widest search for
> "empty hut" in DPR results in:
> Search Results for *su~n~naagaaraani: * DN:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfDN')> 0, MN:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfMN')> 4, SN:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfSN')> 7, AN:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAN')> 4, KN:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfKN')> 0, Vin:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfVin')> 0, Abhi:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAbhi')> 0
>
> The lack of results in Samyutta presumably is due to the "..." sutta
> repetitions that are ellipsed out. I manually looked through the ending
> page of each of the 34 DN suttas (maurice walshe version)  yesterday,
> and confirmed the lack of the phrase in DN. Your search results below
> found 3 occurences in MN, DPR reported 4, I'm going to look into that
> discrepancy right now and get back to you guys later today or tomorrow...
>
> -Frank
>
>
>

Ok, there are at least 4 confirmed occurences in Majjima Nikaya of the
phrase, "Here is a foot of a tree, an empty hut, [monks], you better
practice jhana or you will deeply regret it later...."

     Majjhima occurrences: 152, 106, 19, 8, [ m8.nypo
     <http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.008.nypo.html> ], [
     m19.than
     <http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.019.than.html> ], [
     m106.than
     <http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.106.than.html> ], [
     m.152.than
     <http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.152.than.html> ]

M152 is one of my all time favorite suttas. M8 and M19 I've also re-read
with disproportionate frequency, which is why in my mind I have the
impression the phrase "practice jhana"  is much more frequent than 4
occurrences out of 152 in Majjhima. I loooooove M152. I really love
m152. I can not express in ascii how much I love that sutta. It
describes what behavior and accomplishment we strive for in practicing
the buddha's path. I'm cutting and pasting an excerpt from Thanissaro's
translation:
"And how is one a noble one with developed faculties?
There is the case where, when seeing a form with the eye, there arises
in a monk what is agreeable, what is disagreeable, what is agreeable &
disagreeable.
If he wants, he remains percipient of loathsomeness in the presence of
what is not loathsome.
If he wants, he remains percipient of unloathsomeness in the presence of
what is loathsome.
If he wants, he remains percipient of loathsomeness in the presence of
what is not loathsome & what is.
If he wants, he remains percipient of unloathsomeness in the presence of
what is loathsome & what is not.
If he wants — in the presence of what is loathsome & what is not —
cutting himself off from both, he remains equanimous, alert, & mindful.
----------------------------------------------------------
my comments: How beautiful is that? To abide in peace, freedom,
fearlessness, under any and every circumstance that life can throw at
you. I can totally understand the sentiment of Buddhists who have the
desire to just bow to the triple gem for the rest of their life, I mean
physically bow and prostrate again and again, forgoing eating, sleeping,
etc... There's just no way fully express or capture how beautiful,
profound, effective the dhamma is.
-Frank










On 1/5/2010 8:26 AM, frank wrote:
> Thanks Rosa! I had the impression the phrase was even more frequent
> than that, but it's probably because there are certain key suttas such
> as [M 152] that I tend to re-read frequently, resulting in that
> impression. Playing around this morning I just realized DPR can do a
> much wider search than only the current window/sutta. Doing the widest
> search for "empty hut" in DPR results in:
> Search Results for *su~n~naagaaraani: * DN:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfDN')> 0, MN:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfMN')> 4, SN:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfSN')> 7, AN:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAN')> 4, KN:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfKN')> 0, Vin:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfVin')> 0, Abhi:
> <javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAbhi')> 0
>
> The lack of results in Samyutta presumably is due to the "..." sutta
> repetitions that are ellipsed out. I manually looked through the
> ending page of each of the 34 DN suttas (maurice walshe version)
> yesterday, and confirmed the lack of the phrase in DN. Your search
> results below found 3 occurences in MN, DPR reported 4, I'm going to
> look into that discrepancy right now and get back to you guys later
> today or tomorrow...
>
> -Frank
>
>
> On 1/5/2010 12:25 AM, Rosa Grau gmail wrote:
>>
>> Your search results:
>>
>> 1 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, māpamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 2 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni jhāyatha
bhikkhave,
>> mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 3 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino MN I_utf8.txt
>>
>> 4 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 5 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 6 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 7 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 8 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 9 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 10 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 11 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 12 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 13 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 14 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 15 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 16 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 17 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 18 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 19 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 20 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 21 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 22 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 23 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 24 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 25 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 26 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 27 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 28 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 29 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 30 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 31 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 32 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 33 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 34 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 35 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 36 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 37 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 38 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 39 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 40 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 41 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 42 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 43 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 44 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 45 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 46 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 47 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 48 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 49 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 50 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 51 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 52 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 53 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 54 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 55 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 56 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 57 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 58 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 59 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 60 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 61 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
>> bhikkhave mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 62 ā. Etāni bhikkhu rukkhamūlāni. Etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
>> bhikkhu, mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
>>
>> 63 . Etāni bhikkhu, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
>> bhikkhu, mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
>>
>> 64 ayā. Etāni cunda rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
cunda
>> mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ahuv MN I_utf8.txt
>>
>> 65 āraṃ sumāpitaṃ, So tattha patisallino eko rahasi jhāyatha. 2615.
>> Sa rājā paridevesi putatasokena aṭṭito, J IV_utf8.txt
>>
>> 66 khaluṅkajjhāyitaṃ hoti. 1. Saddho machasaṃ. 2. Jhāyatha sīmu. 3.
>> Bandho syā, [BJT Page 610] [\x 610/] AN V_utf8.txt
>>
>> 67 hamāne sampavedhamāne passatha dakkhatha oloketha jhāyatha
>> upaparikkhathāti 'mamāyite passatha phandamāne. ' Nidd I_utf8.txt
>>
>> 68 ā. Etāni ānanda, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
ānanda,
>> mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ah MN II_utf8.txt
>>
>> Rosa
>>
>> _____
>>
>> From: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
>> [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>] On
>> Behalf Of frank
>> Sent: dilluns, 4 / gener / 2010 17:40
>> To: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do
>> jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe
>> Vinaya Rules?, no 5.
>>
>> on compulsory meditation:
>> I was just reading [S 43] yesterday, the samyutta on asankhata (the
>> unconditoned, i.e. nibbana). This would be CDOB p. 1372. On the DPI,
>> Samyutta book 4, vaggo 9. I could be misreading the "..." ellipses that
>> reduce repetition, but it looks to me as if every single sutta in that
>> samyutta ends with the famous sequence of "here is a foot of a tree, an
>> empty hut, do jhana monks...":
>>
>> (cut and paste stock phrase from DPI)
>> yam., <javascript:postout('ya.m,',849)> bhikkhave,
>> <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',850)> sattha-ra-
>> <javascript:postout('satthaaraa',851)> karan.i-yam.
>> <javascript:postout('kara.niiya.m',852)> sa-vaka-nam.
>> <javascript:postout('saavakaana.m',853)> hitesina-
>> <javascript:postout('hitesinaa',854)> anukampakena
>> <javascript:postout('anukampakena',855)> anukampam.
>> <javascript:postout('anukampa.m',856)> upa-da-ya,
>> <javascript:postout('upaadaaya,',857)> katam.
>> <javascript:postout('kata.m',858)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',859)>
>> tam. <javascript:postout('ta.m',860)> maya-.
>> <javascript:postout('mayaa.',861)> eta-ni,
>> <javascript:postout('etaani,',862)> bhikkhave,
>> <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',863)> rukkhamu-la-ni,
>> <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
>> <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
>> <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
>> <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> bhikkhave,
>> <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',868)> ma-
>> <javascript:postout('maa',869)> pama-dattha;
>> <javascript:postout('pamaadattha;',870)> ma-
>> <javascript:postout('maa',871)> paccha-
>> <javascript:postout('pacchaa',872)> T <javascript:void(0)>
>> vippat.isa-rino <javascript:postout('vippa.tisaarino',874)> ahuvattha.
>> <javascript:postout('ahuvattha.',875)> ayam.
>> <javascript:postout('aya.m',876)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',877)>
>> amha-kam. <javascript:postout('amhaaka.m',878)> anusa-sani-"ti.
>> <javascript:postout('anusaasanii``ti.',879)> pat.hamam..
>> <javascript:postout('pa.thama.m.',880)>
>>
>> This whole section [S 43] deals with how unconditioned is arrived at via
>> mindfulness of body, samatha, vipassana, and the 37 aids to
>> enlightenment. After enumerating each set, it ends with the "... do
>> jhana monks... " phrase.
>> I wonder how many suttas in all the nikayas end with that paragraph? If
>> we remove suttas addressed to laity, etc, and only look at suttas
>> dealing with development of wisdom, concentration, mindfulness, I bet a
>> really high % of suttas end with "do jhanas, monks..." any tech savvy
>> people on this list ever do a search for " rukkhamu-la-ni,
>> <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
>> <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
>> <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
>> <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> " on the pali nikayas and tally
>> it up? We could get an answer to that question pretty quick.
>>
>> -Frank
>>
>> On 1/4/2010 3:14 AM, ashinpan wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Dear Nina,
>> >
>> > Sorry, I have just come back from a trip hence this late reply.
>> >
>> > You wrote:
>> >
>> > > We are bound to be distressed about an unpleasant experience such as
>> > > an insult or a loss of dear people, but when we begin to develop
>> > > pa~n~naa we can gradually learn from such an experience. Sometimes,
>> > > when there are conditions, we may even be glad and full of confidence
>> > > in the Triple Gem, as we also read in this sutta:
>> > > < Tassa ce aavuso bhikkhuno eva.m Buddha.m anussarato eva.m Dhamma.m
>> > > anussarato eva.m Sa"nga.m anussarato
>> > > But if, when a bhikkhu recollects the Enlightened One, the Teaching
>> > > and the Community,
>> > > upekhaa kusalanissitaa sa.n.thaati, so tena attamano hoti...
>> > > equanimity with the beneficial (kusala dhamma) as its support,
>> > > becomes established in him, then he is satisfied.>
>> > >
>> > > Chapter I of the Visuddhimagga deals with siila, and passages on the
>> > > fourfold purification of siila can also be partly applied by a
>> > > layfollower in his own situation. We read in the Visuddhimagga (I,
>> > > 100, 101), that restraint of the sense faculties should be undertaken
>> > > with mindfulness, and <When not undertaken thus, virtue of Patimokkha
>> > > restraint is unenduring: it does not last, like a crop not fenced in
>> > > with branches...>
>> > > Also laypeople can remember that without satipa.t.thaana one is bound
>> > > to give in to akusala in thought, speech and action, there will be
>> > > impatience and intolerance.
>> > > We read in Vis. I, 49-51:
>> > > <Proper resort as support: a good friend. Proper resort as guarding.
>> > > Proper resort as anchoring:<It is the four foundations of mindfulness
>> > > on which the mind is anchored; for this is said by the Blessed
>> > > One:'Bhikkhus, what is a bhikkhu's resort, his own native place? It
>> > > is these four "foundations of mindfulness" (S.V, 148).>
>> > > These are like an anchor both for monks and laypeople.
>> > >
>> > > The following text of the Diigha Nikaaya, Mahaaparibbaanasutta (80)
>> > > shows clearly the impact of aniccaa sa~n~naa and anattaa sa~n~naa on
>> > > siila, good morality as to thought, speech and action. This
>> > > encouraging text that refers to the Order of monks is also beneficial
>> > > for laypeople:
>> > >
>> > > <So long as the brethren shall exercise themselves in the realization
>> > > of the ideas of the impermanency of all phenomena, bodily and mental,
>> > > the absence [in them of any abiding principle] of any "soul", of
>> > > corruption, of the danger of wrong thoughts, of the necessity of
>> > > getting rid of them, of purity of heart, of Nibbaana- so long may the
>> > > brethren be expected not to decline, but to prosper.>
>> >
>> > I agree with your comments and conclusions. All the sources you have
>> > quoted are from the Sutta Pi.taka, where we can meet the Buddha as a
>> > guide, as a patient teacher. However, in Vinaya we see the Buddha as
>> > an enforcer of law who practiced the policy of "carrot or stick". All
>> > Paatimokkha precepts, for example, are in the format of "Don't do this
>> > or else".
>> >
>> > I agree that meditation like satipa.t.thaana can really help
>> > individual monks to observe Vinaya rules but there is no rule to force
>> > monks to meditate. I sometimes wonder why the Buddha has not made
>> > meditation compulsory for monks.
>> >
>> > with metta
>> >
>> > Ven. Pandita
>> >
>> >
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Rosa! I had the impression the phrase was even more frequent than
that, but it's probably because there are certain key suttas such as [M
152] that I tend to re-read frequently, resulting in that impression.
Playing around this morning I just realized DPR can do a much wider
search than only the current window/sutta. Doing the widest search for
"empty hut" in DPR results in:
Search Results for *su~n~naagaaraani: * DN:
<javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfDN')> 0, MN:
<javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfMN')> 4, SN:
<javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfSN')> 7, AN:
<javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAN')> 4, KN:
<javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfKN')> 0, Vin:
<javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfVin')> 0, Abhi:
<javascript:go_anchor('searchb','sbfAbhi')> 0

The lack of results in Samyutta presumably is due to the "..." sutta
repetitions that are ellipsed out. I manually looked through the ending
page of each of the 34 DN suttas (maurice walshe version)  yesterday,
and confirmed the lack of the phrase in DN. Your search results below
found 3 occurences in MN, DPR reported 4, I'm going to look into that
discrepancy right now and get back to you guys later today or tomorrow...

-Frank


On 1/5/2010 12:25 AM, Rosa Grau gmail wrote:
>
> Your search results:
>
> 1 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, māpamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 2 Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni jhāyatha
bhikkhave,
> mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino AN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 3 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
bhikkhave,
> mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino MN I_utf8.txt
>
> 4 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave,
> mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 5 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 6 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 7 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 8 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 9 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 10 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 11 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 12 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 13 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 14 ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 15 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 16 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 17 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 18 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 19 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 20 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 21 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 22 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 23 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 24 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 25 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 26 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 27 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 28 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 29 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 30 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 31 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 32 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 33 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 34 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 35 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 36 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 37 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 38 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 39 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 40 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 41 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 42 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 43 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 44 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 45 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 46 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 47 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 48 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 49 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 50 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 51 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 52 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 53 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 54 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 55 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 56 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 57 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 58 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 59 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
> bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 60 Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave
> mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 61 etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave
> mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino SN IV_utf8.txt
>
> 62 ā. Etāni bhikkhu rukkhamūlāni. Etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
bhikkhu,
> mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
>
> 63 . Etāni bhikkhu, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
bhikkhu,
> mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a AN III_utf8.txt
>
> 64 ayā. Etāni cunda rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha cunda
mā
> pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ahuv MN I_utf8.txt
>
> 65 āraṃ sumāpitaṃ, So tattha patisallino eko rahasi jhāyatha. 2615. Sa
> rājā paridevesi putatasokena aṭṭito, J IV_utf8.txt
>
> 66 khaluṅkajjhāyitaṃ hoti. 1. Saddho machasaṃ. 2. Jhāyatha sīmu. 3.
> Bandho syā, [BJT Page 610] [\x 610/] AN V_utf8.txt
>
> 67 hamāne sampavedhamāne passatha dakkhatha oloketha jhāyatha
> upaparikkhathāti 'mamāyite passatha phandamāne. ' Nidd I_utf8.txt
>
> 68 ā. Etāni ānanda, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
ānanda,
> mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ah MN II_utf8.txt
>
> Rosa
>
> _____
>
> From: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>] On
> Behalf Of frank
> Sent: dilluns, 4 / gener / 2010 17:40
> To: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do
> jhana..." Re: Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe
> Vinaya Rules?, no 5.
>
> on compulsory meditation:
> I was just reading [S 43] yesterday, the samyutta on asankhata (the
> unconditoned, i.e. nibbana). This would be CDOB p. 1372. On the DPI,
> Samyutta book 4, vaggo 9. I could be misreading the "..." ellipses that
> reduce repetition, but it looks to me as if every single sutta in that
> samyutta ends with the famous sequence of "here is a foot of a tree, an
> empty hut, do jhana monks...":
>
> (cut and paste stock phrase from DPI)
> yam., <javascript:postout('ya.m,',849)> bhikkhave,
> <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',850)> sattha-ra-
> <javascript:postout('satthaaraa',851)> karan.i-yam.
> <javascript:postout('kara.niiya.m',852)> sa-vaka-nam.
> <javascript:postout('saavakaana.m',853)> hitesina-
> <javascript:postout('hitesinaa',854)> anukampakena
> <javascript:postout('anukampakena',855)> anukampam.
> <javascript:postout('anukampa.m',856)> upa-da-ya,
> <javascript:postout('upaadaaya,',857)> katam.
> <javascript:postout('kata.m',858)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',859)>
> tam. <javascript:postout('ta.m',860)> maya-.
> <javascript:postout('mayaa.',861)> eta-ni,
> <javascript:postout('etaani,',862)> bhikkhave,
> <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',863)> rukkhamu-la-ni,
> <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
> <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
> <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
> <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> bhikkhave,
> <javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',868)> ma-
> <javascript:postout('maa',869)> pama-dattha;
> <javascript:postout('pamaadattha;',870)> ma-
> <javascript:postout('maa',871)> paccha-
> <javascript:postout('pacchaa',872)> T <javascript:void(0)>
> vippat.isa-rino <javascript:postout('vippa.tisaarino',874)> ahuvattha.
> <javascript:postout('ahuvattha.',875)> ayam.
> <javascript:postout('aya.m',876)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',877)>
> amha-kam. <javascript:postout('amhaaka.m',878)> anusa-sani-"ti.
> <javascript:postout('anusaasanii``ti.',879)> pat.hamam..
> <javascript:postout('pa.thama.m.',880)>
>
> This whole section [S 43] deals with how unconditioned is arrived at via
> mindfulness of body, samatha, vipassana, and the 37 aids to
> enlightenment. After enumerating each set, it ends with the "... do
> jhana monks... " phrase.
> I wonder how many suttas in all the nikayas end with that paragraph? If
> we remove suttas addressed to laity, etc, and only look at suttas
> dealing with development of wisdom, concentration, mindfulness, I bet a
> really high % of suttas end with "do jhanas, monks..." any tech savvy
> people on this list ever do a search for " rukkhamu-la-ni,
> <javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
> <javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
> <javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
> <javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> " on the pali nikayas and tally
> it up? We could get an answer to that question pretty quick.
>
> -Frank
>
> On 1/4/2010 3:14 AM, ashinpan wrote:
> >
> >
> > Dear Nina,
> >
> > Sorry, I have just come back from a trip hence this late reply.
> >
> > You wrote:
> >
> > > We are bound to be distressed about an unpleasant experience such as
> > > an insult or a loss of dear people, but when we begin to develop
> > > pa~n~naa we can gradually learn from such an experience. Sometimes,
> > > when there are conditions, we may even be glad and full of confidence
> > > in the Triple Gem, as we also read in this sutta:
> > > < Tassa ce aavuso bhikkhuno eva.m Buddha.m anussarato eva.m Dhamma.m
> > > anussarato eva.m Sa"nga.m anussarato
> > > But if, when a bhikkhu recollects the Enlightened One, the Teaching
> > > and the Community,
> > > upekhaa kusalanissitaa sa.n.thaati, so tena attamano hoti...
> > > equanimity with the beneficial (kusala dhamma) as its support,
> > > becomes established in him, then he is satisfied.>
> > >
> > > Chapter I of the Visuddhimagga deals with siila, and passages on the
> > > fourfold purification of siila can also be partly applied by a
> > > layfollower in his own situation. We read in the Visuddhimagga (I,
> > > 100, 101), that restraint of the sense faculties should be undertaken
> > > with mindfulness, and <When not undertaken thus, virtue of Patimokkha
> > > restraint is unenduring: it does not last, like a crop not fenced in
> > > with branches...>
> > > Also laypeople can remember that without satipa.t.thaana one is bound
> > > to give in to akusala in thought, speech and action, there will be
> > > impatience and intolerance.
> > > We read in Vis. I, 49-51:
> > > <Proper resort as support: a good friend. Proper resort as guarding.
> > > Proper resort as anchoring:<It is the four foundations of mindfulness
> > > on which the mind is anchored; for this is said by the Blessed
> > > One:'Bhikkhus, what is a bhikkhu's resort, his own native place? It
> > > is these four "foundations of mindfulness" (S.V, 148).>
> > > These are like an anchor both for monks and laypeople.
> > >
> > > The following text of the Diigha Nikaaya, Mahaaparibbaanasutta (80)
> > > shows clearly the impact of aniccaa sa~n~naa and anattaa sa~n~naa on
> > > siila, good morality as to thought, speech and action. This
> > > encouraging text that refers to the Order of monks is also beneficial
> > > for laypeople:
> > >
> > > <So long as the brethren shall exercise themselves in the realization
> > > of the ideas of the impermanency of all phenomena, bodily and mental,
> > > the absence [in them of any abiding principle] of any "soul", of
> > > corruption, of the danger of wrong thoughts, of the necessity of
> > > getting rid of them, of purity of heart, of Nibbaana- so long may the
> > > brethren be expected not to decline, but to prosper.>
> >
> > I agree with your comments and conclusions. All the sources you have
> > quoted are from the Sutta Pi.taka, where we can meet the Buddha as a
> > guide, as a patient teacher. However, in Vinaya we see the Buddha as
> > an enforcer of law who practiced the policy of "carrot or stick". All
> > Paatimokkha precepts, for example, are in the format of "Don't do this
> > or else".
> >
> > I agree that meditation like satipa.t.thaana can really help
> > individual monks to observe Vinaya rules but there is no rule to force
> > monks to meditate. I sometimes wonder why the Buddha has not made
> > meditation compulsory for monks.
> >
> > with metta
> >
> > Ven. Pandita
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Yong Peng,
Thank you very much.
Op 3-jan-2010, om 10:40 heeft Ong Yong Peng het volgende geschreven:

> [22/120]
>
> The New Pali Course Part III (1950)
> Prof. A. P. Buddhadatta Maha Nayaka Thera
>
> Chapter VII Definition of the Indeclinables

112. neva (=na+eva), indeed not

"Ta`n kho pan'eta.m paapakamma.m n'eva maataraa kata.m, na pitaraa
kata.m." [A.i,139]

YP: "That certainly this evil deed (is) indeed not done by mother,
not done by father."

YP: I have "kho pana" (but indeed) as 'certainly'.


N: Yes. But I think that as to  Ta�nkho, this �ta.m� belongs to
paapakamma.m. PTS:  that evil action of yours ...

Ta.m and eta.m, perhaps for the sake of stress?

--------

113. nanu (na+nu), is it not? (This is in affirmation and
interrogation.)

"Nanu te puttena Ma.t.taku.n.dalinaa mayi mana.m pasaadetvaa sagge
nibbatta-bhaavo kathito?" [DhA.i,33]

"Was it not told by your son, Ma.t.taku.n.dali, that he was born in
heaven on account of the faith in me?"
-------

Just the use of the article 'the' in English sounds strange.

Suggestted: On account of faith in me, or: his faith...

--------

(b) "Mu~nca pure, mu~nca pacchato,
Majjhe mu~nca bhavassa paaraguu." [Dhp.v.348]

"Give up the things of the future, give up the things of the past,
Give up the things of the present; cross to the farther
shore." [B.L.iii,229]

------

N: bhavassa, of existence. The transl has: cross to the farther shore
of existence...

-------------

Nina.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Venerable Pandita,

Op 5-jan-2010, om 15:14 heeft ashinpan het volgende geschreven:

> The idea of carrot or stick helps to a certain extent. If a person
> is even not afraid of a stick, well, no one can help him.
------
N: This is clear. Thank you for all your observations and your
patience answering all these mails.

With respect,

Nina.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Nina,

You wrote:
> N: As to satipa.t.thaana, it would not be possible to enforce this.
> The aim is to see anattaa, no person or self who can beforced, since
> whatever arises is dependent on conditions.
>  From your paper I see that you are concerned about the order of
> monks, while you wrote: <if the monastic code can be maintained free
> from the whims and fancies of the Order, at least a minority of good
> monks would be able to follow it and get benefits even if the
> majority is corrupt beyond all repair.>
> Not sure whether the idea of carrot or stick helps.

The idea of carrot or stick helps to a certain extent. If a person is even not
afraid of a stick, well, no one can help him.

> I am inclined to  see the unity of the teaching of the Tipi.taka and would not
separate  the teaching of Vinaya as being different, with a different approach.

I don't mean that Sutta and Vinaya Pi.takas contradict each other, rather they
complement each other. Let us take, for example, a meditation centre. The
meditation instructor may be always emitting kindness and patience but he may
need to complement his kindness with strict rules and regulations so that
meditation retreats can run smoothly. It is the same case here.

> Doing good deeds, restraint from bad deeds, I think that one has to
> know and be aware of the different cittas that arise in a day and
> motivate deeds. Lobha comes in disguise; it seems we are doing good,  but how
many akusala cittas arise without being noticed. The clinging  to self is in the
way all the time.

I agree. However, the basic principle of Vinaya is "Manodvaare aapatti naama
natthi" (there is no offence in the mind-door). And someone who has studied
Abhidhamma systematically at least can judge his or her own deeds as good or
bad, at least at the physical or verbal levels, if not at the mental level.

> The monk who has become a sotaapanna has eradicated the wrong view of
> self and he cannot return to worldly life.
>
> We read in the Kindred Sayings (V, Mah�-vagga, Book I, Ch VI, � 12,
> The river) that the Buddha spoke by way of simile about the monk who
> will not return to the layman's life; he said that the river Ganges,
> tending towards the east, cannot be made to change its course and
> tend towards the west. We read:
>
> Just so monks, if the r�jah's royal ministers or his friends or boon
> companions or kinsmen or blood relatives were to come to a monk who
> is cultivating and making much of the ariyan eightfold way, and were
> to seek to entice him with wealth, saying: "Come, good man! Why
> should these yellow robes torment you? Why parade about with shaven
> crown and bowl? Come! Return to the lower life and enjoy possessions
> and do deeds of merit"� for that monk so cultivating and making much
> of the ariyan way, return to the lower life is impossible. Why so?
> Because, monks, that monk's heart has for many a long day been bent
> on detachment, inclined to detachment, turned towards detachment, so
> that there is no possibility for him to return to the lower life...
> -----------------

Actually it is a controversial matter in Burma. I am not familiar enough with
suttas to give any considered opinion but at least I know that Mahasi Sayadaw
believed sotapanna monks may still return to worldly life. I don't know the
doctrinal basis of his opinion.

with metta

Ven. Pandita

Your search results:





1     Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
bhikkhave, māpamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     AN IV_utf8.txt

2       Etāni bhikkhave, rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     AN IV_utf8.txt

3     Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     MN I_utf8.txt

4     Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

5     ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

6     ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

7     ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

8     ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

9     ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

10    ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

11    ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

12    ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

13    ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

14    ā etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

15    Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

16    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

17    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

18    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

19    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

20    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

21    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

22    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

23    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

24    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

25    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

26    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

27    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

28    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

29    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

30    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

31    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

32    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

33    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

34    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

35    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

36    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

37    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

38    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

39    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

40    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

41    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

42    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

43    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

44    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

45    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

46    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

47    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

48    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

49    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

50    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

51    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

52    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

53    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

54    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

55    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

56    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

57    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

58    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

59    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

60    Etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

61    etāni bhikkhave rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
bhikkhave mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino     SN IV_utf8.txt

62    ā. Etāni bhikkhu rukkhamūlāni. Etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
bhikkhu, mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a   AN III_utf8.txt

63    . Etāni bhikkhu, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
bhikkhu, mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino a   AN III_utf8.txt

64    ayā. Etāni cunda rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni. Jhāyatha
cunda mā pamādattha. Mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ahuv      MN I_utf8.txt

65    āraṃ sumāpitaṃ,  So tattha patisallino eko rahasi jhāyatha.   2615.
Sa rājā paridevesi putatasokena aṭṭito,     J IV_utf8.txt

66    khaluṅkajjhāyitaṃ hoti.   1. Saddho  machasaṃ. 2. Jhāyatha  sīmu.
3. Bandho  syā,   [BJT Page 610] [\x 610/]      AN V_utf8.txt

67    hamāne sampavedhamāne passatha dakkhatha oloketha jhāyatha
upaparikkhathāti 'mamāyite passatha phandamāne. '  Nidd I_utf8.txt

68    ā. Etāni ānanda, rukkhamūlāni, etāni suññāgārāni, jhāyatha
ānanda, mā pamādattha, mā pacchā vippaṭisārino ah  MN II_utf8.txt





Rosa



   _____

From: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of frank
Sent: dilluns, 4 / gener / 2010 17:40
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Subject: how many suttas end with "here is a tree, empty hut, do jhana..." Re:
Antw.: [Pali] Re: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe Vinaya Rules?, no 5.





on compulsory meditation:
I was just reading [S 43] yesterday, the samyutta on asankhata (the
unconditoned, i.e. nibbana). This would be CDOB p. 1372. On the DPI,
Samyutta book 4, vaggo 9. I could be misreading the "..." ellipses that
reduce repetition, but it looks to me as if every single sutta in that
samyutta ends with the famous sequence of "here is a foot of a tree, an
empty hut, do jhana monks...":

(cut and paste stock phrase from DPI)
yam., <javascript:postout('ya.m,',849)> bhikkhave,
<javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',850)> sattha-ra-
<javascript:postout('satthaaraa',851)> karan.i-yam.
<javascript:postout('kara.niiya.m',852)> sa-vaka-nam.
<javascript:postout('saavakaana.m',853)> hitesina-
<javascript:postout('hitesinaa',854)> anukampakena
<javascript:postout('anukampakena',855)> anukampam.
<javascript:postout('anukampa.m',856)> upa-da-ya,
<javascript:postout('upaadaaya,',857)> katam.
<javascript:postout('kata.m',858)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',859)>
tam. <javascript:postout('ta.m',860)> maya-.
<javascript:postout('mayaa.',861)> eta-ni,
<javascript:postout('etaani,',862)> bhikkhave,
<javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',863)> rukkhamu-la-ni,
<javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
<javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
<javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
<javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> bhikkhave,
<javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',868)> ma-
<javascript:postout('maa',869)> pama-dattha;
<javascript:postout('pamaadattha;',870)> ma-
<javascript:postout('maa',871)> paccha-
<javascript:postout('pacchaa',872)> T <javascript:void(0)>
vippat.isa-rino <javascript:postout('vippa.tisaarino',874)> ahuvattha.
<javascript:postout('ahuvattha.',875)> ayam.
<javascript:postout('aya.m',876)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',877)>
amha-kam. <javascript:postout('amhaaka.m',878)> anusa-sani-"ti.
<javascript:postout('anusaasanii``ti.',879)> pat.hamam..
<javascript:postout('pa.thama.m.',880)>

This whole section [S 43] deals with how unconditioned is arrived at via
mindfulness of body, samatha, vipassana, and the 37 aids to
enlightenment. After enumerating each set, it ends with the "... do
jhana monks... " phrase.
I wonder how many suttas in all the nikayas end with that paragraph? If
we remove suttas addressed to laity, etc, and only look at suttas
dealing with development of wisdom, concentration, mindfulness, I bet a
really high % of suttas end with "do jhanas, monks..." any tech savvy
people on this list ever do a search for " rukkhamu-la-ni,
<javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
<javascript:postout('etaani',865)> suñña-ga-ra-ni.
<javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
<javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> " on the pali nikayas and tally
it up? We could get an answer to that question pretty quick.

-Frank

On 1/4/2010 3:14 AM, ashinpan wrote:
>
>
> Dear Nina,
>
> Sorry, I have just come back from a trip hence this late reply.
>
> You wrote:
>
> > We are bound to be distressed about an unpleasant experience such as
> > an insult or a loss of dear people, but when we begin to develop
> > pa~n~naa we can gradually learn from such an experience. Sometimes,
> > when there are conditions, we may even be glad and full of confidence
> > in the Triple Gem, as we also read in this sutta:
> > < Tassa ce aavuso bhikkhuno eva.m Buddha.m anussarato eva.m Dhamma.m
> > anussarato eva.m Sa"nga.m anussarato
> > But if, when a bhikkhu recollects the Enlightened One, the Teaching
> > and the Community,
> > upekhaa kusalanissitaa sa.n.thaati, so tena attamano hoti...
> > equanimity with the beneficial (kusala dhamma) as its support,
> > becomes established in him, then he is satisfied.>
> >
> > Chapter I of the Visuddhimagga deals with siila, and passages on the
> > fourfold purification of siila can also be partly applied by a
> > layfollower in his own situation. We read in the Visuddhimagga (I,
> > 100, 101), that restraint of the sense faculties should be undertaken
> > with mindfulness, and <When not undertaken thus, virtue of Patimokkha
> > restraint is unenduring: it does not last, like a crop not fenced in
> > with branches...>
> > Also laypeople can remember that without satipa.t.thaana one is bound
> > to give in to akusala in thought, speech and action, there will be
> > impatience and intolerance.
> > We read in Vis. I, 49-51:
> > <Proper resort as support: a good friend. Proper resort as guarding.
> > Proper resort as anchoring:<It is the four foundations of mindfulness
> > on which the mind is anchored; for this is said by the Blessed
> > One:'Bhikkhus, what is a bhikkhu's resort, his own native place? It
> > is these four "foundations of mindfulness" (S.V, 148).>
> > These are like an anchor both for monks and laypeople.
> >
> > The following text of the Diigha Nikaaya, Mahaaparibbaanasutta (80)
> > shows clearly the impact of aniccaa sa~n~naa and anattaa sa~n~naa on
> > siila, good morality as to thought, speech and action. This
> > encouraging text that refers to the Order of monks is also beneficial
> > for laypeople:
> >
> > <So long as the brethren shall exercise themselves in the realization
> > of the ideas of the impermanency of all phenomena, bodily and mental,
> > the absence [in them of any abiding principle] of any "soul", of
> > corruption, of the danger of wrong thoughts, of the necessity of
> > getting rid of them, of purity of heart, of Nibbaana- so long may the
> > brethren be expected not to decline, but to prosper.>
>
> I agree with your comments and conclusions. All the sources you have
> quoted are from the Sutta Pi.taka, where we can meet the Buddha as a
> guide, as a patient teacher. However, in Vinaya we see the Buddha as
> an enforcer of law who practiced the policy of "carrot or stick". All
> Paatimokkha precepts, for example, are in the format of "Don't do this
> or else".
>
> I agree that meditation like satipa.t.thaana can really help
> individual monks to observe Vinaya rules but there is no rule to force
> monks to meditate. I sometimes wonder why the Buddha has not made
> meditation compulsory for monks.
>
> with metta
>
> Ven. Pandita
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Nina,

Few comments:
(1)�Why do you tranlate 'me' as 'in me'? 'In me would be locative.�"me' is
usually, instrumental, dat, or gen.
(2) You translate dhammacakkhu as 'eye of dhamma'. Later on you change it to
'vision of dhamma'. The two words 'eye' and 'vision' could be related but they
are two different things. It would be better to be consistent, I think.Most
probably dhamma-eye would emphasize the technical nature of the word.
(3) This is quite complex. Let me first say that I am not sure why I say, except
it is a gut feeling.
I refer to the translation of� "ya.m ki~nci samudayadhamma. m, sabba.m ta.m
nirodhadhamman". You have translated this as: "Whatever is subject to arising,
all that is subject to
cessation". I can't find anything wrong with that.
However, I feel samudayadhamma refers to the first noble truth and
nirodhadhamma.m to the the 3rd noble truth.

�DCD. G. D. C. Wijeratna




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Nina,

Maara is not in hell. He is also a deva, I think.

DC
 D. G. D. C. Wijeratna




________________________________
From: Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...>
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 9:01:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Pali]Q. Dhammacakkappavattanasutta, no 15

 
Dear DC,
thank you for your observations.
Op 3-jan-2010, om 16:12 heeft DC Wijeratna het volgende geschreven:

> (1) In Pali (the teachings of the Buddha), a word can have many
> meanings. A well-known example is braahma.na.
> (2)Ssimilary, the word deva has many meanings. In fact, rain is
> also a deva. (devo vassatu kaalena).
> (3) Therefore, meaning must be derived from the context.
-------
N: A cross reference of texts with similar expressions is also very
helpful. Some people find such texts with the computer, but I cannot.
-------
> DC: (6) Sadevamanussaya, occurs to my knowledge only in the
> expression, 'sadevake loke samaarake... sadevamanussaaya '. There is
> no word 'devamanussaaya' , I think in the canon.
------
N: The ending aaya indicates that it belongs to pajaaya. I was in
vain looking in different grammars for the type of suffix, taddhita.
We know the expression satthaa devamanussaana. m ((MI, 37, A III, 285).
-------
> DC: (7) Then last, sadevake is followed by samaarake, whereas
> sadevamanussaaya is preceded by sassama.nabraahmani yaa pajaaya.
-------
N: That is a good observation: the contrast deva and maara, in heaven
and hell. And then together in the human plane: sama.nas, brahmas,
rulers and people.

-------
Nina.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Venerable Pandita,
Op 4-jan-2010, om 12:14 heeft ashinpan het volgende geschreven:

> All the sources you have quoted are from the Sutta Pi.taka, where
> we can meet the Buddha as a guide, as a patient teacher. However,
> in Vinaya we see the Buddha as an enforcer of law who practiced the
> policy of "carrot or stick". All Paatimokkha precepts, for example,
> are in the format of "Don't do this or else".
>
> I agree that meditation like satipa.t.thaana can really help
> individual monks to observe Vinaya rules but there is no rule to
> force monks to meditate. I sometimes wonder why the Buddha has not
> made meditation compulsory for monks.
--------
N: As to satipa.t.thaana, it would not be possible to enforce this.
The aim is to see anattaa, no person or self who can beforced, since
whatever arises is dependent on conditions.
  From your paper I see that you are concerned about the order of
monks, while you wrote: <if the monastic code can be maintained free
from the whims and fancies of the Order, at least a minority of good
monks would be able to follow it and get benefits even if the
majority is corrupt beyond all repair.>
Not sure whether the idea of carrot or stick helps. I am inclined to
see the unity of the teaching of the Tipi.taka and would not separate
the teaching of Vinaya as being different, with a different approach.
You wrote to Lennart: <For us, monkhood will help us to do good deeds
more easily while make it more difficult for us to do bad deeds. (At
least it is the common motive for us to become monks.) For that
privilege, we have to pay a price---we must observe the Vinaya rules. >

Doing good deeds, restraint from bad deeds, I think that one has to
know and be aware of the different cittas that arise in a day and
motivate deeds. Lobha comes in disguise; it seems we are doing good,
but how many akusala cittas arise without being noticed. The clinging
to self is in the way all the time.
The monk who has become a sotaapanna has eradicated the wrong view of
self and he cannot return to worldly life.

We read in the Kindred Sayings (V, Mah�-vagga, Book I, Ch VI, � 12,
The river) that the Buddha spoke by way of simile about the monk who
will not return to the layman�s life; he said that the river Ganges,
tending towards the east, cannot be made to change its course and
tend towards the west. We read:

Just so monks, if the r�jah�s royal ministers or his friends or boon
companions or kinsmen or blood relatives were to come to a monk who
is cultivating and making much of the ariyan eightfold way, and were
to seek to entice him with wealth, saying: �Come, good man! Why
should these yellow robes torment you? Why parade about with shaven
crown and bowl? Come! Return to the lower life and enjoy possessions
and do deeds of merit�� for that monk so cultivating and making much
of the ariyan way, return to the lower life is impossible. Why so?
Because, monks, that monk�s heart has for many a long day been bent
on detachment, inclined to detachment, turned towards detachment, so
that there is no possibility for him to return to the lower life...
-----------------
Nina.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lennart Lopin wrote:

>
> ...maybe because it is the whole reason for being a monk?
>
> Nibbānogadhañhi āvuso visākha, brahmacariyaṃ vussati
nibbānaparāyaṇaṃ
> nibbānapariyosānan”ti (ma. ni. 1.466) ettha nibbānaṃ pariyosānanti
vuttaṃ
>
> > I agree that meditation like satipa.t.thaana can really help individual
> > monks to observe Vinaya rules but there is no rule to force monks to
> > meditate. I sometimes wonder why the Buddha has not made meditation
> > compulsory for monks.

Well, you have quoted another sutta. However, the picture of Vinaya as seen by
Burmese monks in theoretical study and actual practice does appear different
from that seen in suttas.

I think I should go into some details here. For us, monkhood will help us to do
good deeds more easily while make it more difficult for us to do bad deeds. (At
least it is the common motive for us to become monks.) For that privilege, we
have to pay a price---we must observe the Vinaya rules. Anything beyond that is
up to the individual choice. You even do not have to promise that you will try
to achieve liberation! Of course, we believe that Samsara is bad and Nibbaana is
good because we have confidence in the Buddha, but it does not mean that we are
in a hurry to be liberated.

For us, Buddhism is like a supermarket where you can get anything if you pay the
proper price for your choice.

Such an attitude may appear odd to you but a thorough study of Vinaya will
reveal the Theravadin monasticism as a safe area where you can have a lot of
freedom to choose as long as you do not transgress the Vinaya boundaries.

with metta

Ven. Pandita

on compulsory meditation:
I was just reading [S 43] yesterday, the samyutta on asankhata (the
unconditoned, i.e. nibbana). This would be CDOB p. 1372. On the DPI,
Samyutta book 4, vaggo 9. I could be misreading the "..." ellipses that
reduce repetition, but it looks to me as if every single sutta in that
samyutta ends with the famous sequence of "here is a foot of a tree, an
empty hut, do jhana monks...":

(cut and paste stock phrase from DPI)
yam., <javascript:postout('ya.m,',849)> bhikkhave,
<javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',850)> sattha-ra-
<javascript:postout('satthaaraa',851)> karan.i-yam.
<javascript:postout('kara.niiya.m',852)> sa-vaka-nam.
<javascript:postout('saavakaana.m',853)> hitesina-
<javascript:postout('hitesinaa',854)> anukampakena
<javascript:postout('anukampakena',855)> anukampam.
<javascript:postout('anukampa.m',856)> upa-da-ya,
<javascript:postout('upaadaaya,',857)> katam.
<javascript:postout('kata.m',858)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',859)>
tam. <javascript:postout('ta.m',860)> maya-.
<javascript:postout('mayaa.',861)> eta-ni,
<javascript:postout('etaani,',862)> bhikkhave,
<javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',863)> rukkhamu-la-ni,
<javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
<javascript:postout('etaani',865)> su��a-ga-ra-ni.
<javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
<javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> bhikkhave,
<javascript:postout('bhikkhave,',868)> ma-
<javascript:postout('maa',869)> pama-dattha;
<javascript:postout('pamaadattha;',870)> ma-
<javascript:postout('maa',871)> paccha-
<javascript:postout('pacchaa',872)> T <javascript:void(0)>
vippat.isa-rino <javascript:postout('vippa.tisaarino',874)> ahuvattha.
<javascript:postout('ahuvattha.',875)> ayam.
<javascript:postout('aya.m',876)> vo <javascript:postout('vo',877)>
amha-kam. <javascript:postout('amhaaka.m',878)> anusa-sani-"ti.
<javascript:postout('anusaasanii``ti.',879)> pat.hamam..
<javascript:postout('pa.thama.m.',880)>

This whole section [S 43] deals with how unconditioned is arrived at via
mindfulness of body, samatha, vipassana, and the 37 aids to
enlightenment. After enumerating each set, it ends with the "... do
jhana monks... " phrase.
I wonder how many suttas in all the nikayas end with that paragraph? If
we remove suttas addressed to laity, etc, and only look at suttas
dealing with development of wisdom, concentration, mindfulness, I bet  a
really high % of suttas end with "do jhanas, monks..." any tech savvy
people on this list ever do a search for " rukkhamu-la-ni,
<javascript:postout('rukkhamuulaani,',864)> eta-ni
<javascript:postout('etaani',865)> su��a-ga-ra-ni.
<javascript:postout('su~n~naagaaraani.',866)> jha-yatha,
<javascript:postout('jhaayatha,',867)> " on the pali  nikayas  and tally
it up? We could get an answer to that question pretty quick.

-Frank



On 1/4/2010 3:14 AM, ashinpan wrote:
>
>
> Dear Nina,
>
> Sorry, I have just come back from a trip hence this late reply.
>
> You wrote:
>
> > We are bound to be distressed about an unpleasant experience such as
> > an insult or a loss of dear people, but when we begin to develop
> > pa~n~naa we can gradually learn from such an experience. Sometimes,
> > when there are conditions, we may even be glad and full of confidence
> > in the Triple Gem, as we also read in this sutta:
> > < Tassa ce aavuso bhikkhuno eva.m Buddha.m anussarato eva.m Dhamma.m
> > anussarato eva.m Sa"nga.m anussarato
> > But if, when a bhikkhu recollects the Enlightened One, the Teaching
> > and the Community,
> > upekhaa kusalanissitaa sa.n.thaati, so tena attamano hoti...
> > equanimity with the beneficial (kusala dhamma) as its support,
> > becomes established in him, then he is satisfied.>
> >
> > Chapter I of the Visuddhimagga deals with siila, and passages on the
> > fourfold purification of siila can also be partly applied by a
> > layfollower in his own situation. We read in the Visuddhimagga (I,
> > 100, 101), that restraint of the sense faculties should be undertaken
> > with mindfulness, and <When not undertaken thus, virtue of Patimokkha
> > restraint is unenduring: it does not last, like a crop not fenced in
> > with branches...>
> > Also laypeople can remember that without satipa.t.thaana one is bound
> > to give in to akusala in thought, speech and action, there will be
> > impatience and intolerance.
> > We read in Vis. I, 49-51:
> > <Proper resort as support: a good friend. Proper resort as guarding.
> > Proper resort as anchoring:<It is the four foundations of mindfulness
> > on which the mind is anchored; for this is said by the Blessed
> > One:'Bhikkhus, what is a bhikkhu's resort, his own native place? It
> > is these four "foundations of mindfulness" (S.V, 148).>
> > These are like an anchor both for monks and laypeople.
> >
> > The following text of the Diigha Nikaaya, Mahaaparibbaanasutta (80)
> > shows clearly the impact of aniccaa sa~n~naa and anattaa sa~n~naa on
> > siila, good morality as to thought, speech and action. This
> > encouraging text that refers to the Order of monks is also beneficial
> > for laypeople:
> >
> > <So long as the brethren shall exercise themselves in the realization
> > of the ideas of the impermanency of all phenomena, bodily and mental,
> > the absence [in them of any abiding principle] of any "soul", of
> > corruption, of the danger of wrong thoughts, of the necessity of
> > getting rid of them, of purity of heart, of Nibbaana- so long may the
> > brethren be expected not to decline, but to prosper.>
>
> I agree with your comments and conclusions. All the sources you have
> quoted are from the Sutta Pi.taka, where we can meet the Buddha as a
> guide, as a patient teacher. However, in Vinaya we see the Buddha as
> an enforcer of law who practiced the policy of "carrot or stick". All
> Paatimokkha precepts, for example, are in the format of "Don't do this
> or else".
>
> I agree that meditation like satipa.t.thaana can really help
> individual monks to observe Vinaya rules but there is no rule to force
> monks to meditate. I sometimes wonder why the Buddha has not made
> meditation compulsory for monks.
>
> with metta
>
> Ven. Pandita
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear DC,
thank you for your observations.
Op 3-jan-2010, om 16:12 heeft DC Wijeratna het volgende geschreven:

> (1) In Pali (the teachings of the Buddha), a word can have many
> meanings. A well-known example is braahma.na.
> (2)Ssimilary, the word deva has many meanings. In fact, rain is
> also a deva. (devo vassatu kaalena).
> (3) Therefore, meaning must be derived from the context.
-------
N: A cross reference of texts with similar expressions is also very
helpful. Some people find such texts with the computer, but I cannot.
-------
> DC: (6) Sadevamanussaya, occurs to my knowledge only in the
> expression, 'sadevake loke samaarake...sadevamanussaaya'. There is
> no word 'devamanussaaya', I think in the canon.
------
N: The ending aaya indicates that it belongs to pajaaya. I was in
vain looking in different grammars for the type of suffix, taddhita.
We know the expression satthaa devamanussaana.m ((MI, 37, A III, 285).
-------
> DC: (7) Then last, sadevake is followed by samaarake, whereas
> sadevamanussaaya is preceded by sassama.nabraahmaniyaa pajaaya.
-------
N: That is a good observation: the contrast deva and maara, in heaven
and hell. And then together in the human plane: sama.nas, brahmas,
rulers and people.

-------
Nina.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Nina,

Many thanks for your long reply.
I agree with Piya. It is really the explanation given in the commentaries.

But I have one or two observations to make.
(1) In Pali (the teachings of the Buddha), a word can have many meanings. A
well-known example is braahma.na.
(2)Ssimilary, the word deva has many meanings. In fact, rain is also a deva.
(devo vassatu kaalena).
(3) Therefore, meaning must be derived from the context.
(4) Dhamma is well-ecxpounded (svaakkhaato), it has meaning(saattha.m) and
properly constructed to give the exact meaning (sabhyanjan.m), complete in all
respects (kevala paripunn.m)
(5) Therefore it is not possible for confusing meanings
(6) Sadevamanussaya, occurs to my knowledge only in the expression, 'sadevake
loke samaarake...sadevamanussaaya'. There is no word 'devamanussaaya', I think
in the canon.
(7) Then last, sadevake is followed by samaarake, whereas sadevamanussaaya is
preceded by sassama.nabraahmaniyaa pajaaya.

With mettaa,

�D. G. D. C. Wijeratna





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

...maybe because it is the whole reason for being a monk?

Nibbānogadhañhi āvuso visākha, brahmacariyaṃ vussati
nibbānaparāyaṇaṃ
nibbānapariyosānan”ti (ma. ni. 1.466) ettha nibbānaṃ pariyosānanti
vuttaṃ




> > brethren be expected not to decline, but to prosper.>
>
> I agree with your comments and conclusions. All the sources you have quoted
> are from the Sutta Pi.taka, where we can meet the Buddha as a guide, as a
> patient teacher. However, in Vinaya we see the Buddha as an enforcer of law
> who practiced the policy of "carrot or stick". All Paatimokkha precepts, for
> example, are in the format of "Don't do this or else".
>
> I agree that meditation like satipa.t.thaana can really help individual
> monks to observe Vinaya rules but there is no rule to force monks to
> meditate. I sometimes wonder why the Buddha has not made meditation
> compulsory for monks.
>
> with metta
>
> Ven. Pandita
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Nina,

Sorry, I have just come back from a trip hence this late reply.

You wrote:

> We are bound to be distressed about an unpleasant experience such as
> an insult or a loss of dear people, but when we begin to develop
> pa~n~naa we can gradually learn from such an experience. Sometimes,
> when there are conditions, we may even be glad and full of confidence
> in the Triple Gem, as we also read in this sutta:
> < Tassa ce aavuso bhikkhuno eva.m Buddha.m anussarato eva.m Dhamma.m
> anussarato eva.m Sa"nga.m anussarato
> But if, when a bhikkhu recollects the Enlightened One, the Teaching
> and the Community,
> upekhaa kusalanissitaa sa.n.thaati, so tena attamano hoti...
> equanimity with the beneficial (kusala dhamma) as its support,
> becomes established in him, then he is satisfied.>
>
> Chapter I of the Visuddhimagga deals with siila, and passages on the
> fourfold purification of siila can also be partly applied by a
> layfollower in his own situation. We read in the Visuddhimagga (I,
> 100, 101), that restraint of the sense faculties should be undertaken
> with mindfulness, and <When not undertaken thus, virtue of Patimokkha
> restraint is unenduring: it does  not last, like a crop not fenced in
> with branches...>
> Also laypeople can remember that without satipa.t.thaana one is bound
> to give in to akusala in thought, speech and action, there will be
> impatience and intolerance.
> We read in Vis. I, 49-51:
> <Proper resort as support: a good friend. Proper resort as guarding.
> Proper resort as anchoring:<It is the four foundations of mindfulness
> on which the mind is anchored; for this is said by the Blessed
> One:'Bhikkhus, what is a bhikkhu's resort, his own native place? It
> is these four "foundations of mindfulness" (S.V, 148).>
> These are like an anchor both for monks and laypeople.
>
>   The following text of the Diigha Nikaaya, Mahaaparibbaanasutta (80)
> shows clearly the impact of aniccaa sa~n~naa and anattaa sa~n~naa on
> siila, good morality as to thought, speech and action. This
> encouraging text that refers to the Order of monks is also beneficial
> for laypeople:
>
> <So long as the brethren shall exercise themselves in the realization
> of the ideas of the impermanency of all phenomena, bodily and mental,
> the absence [in them of any abiding principle] of any "soul", of
> corruption, of the danger of wrong thoughts, of the necessity of
> getting rid of them, of purity of heart, of Nibbaana- so long may the
> brethren be expected not to decline, but to prosper.>

I agree with your comments and conclusions. All the sources you have quoted are
from the Sutta Pi.taka, where we can meet the Buddha as a guide, as a patient
teacher. However, in Vinaya we see the Buddha as an enforcer of law who
practiced the policy of "carrot or stick". All Paatimokkha precepts, for
example, are in the format of "Don't do this or else".

I agree that meditation like satipa.t.thaana can really help individual monks to
observe Vinaya rules but there is no rule to force monks to meditate.  I
sometimes wonder why the Buddha has not made meditation compulsory for monks.

with metta

Ven. Pandita

Dear friends,

Dhammacakkappavattanasutta, no 16
----------
~naa.na~nca pana me dassana.m udapaadi - 'akuppaa me vimutti, aya.m
antimaa jaati, natth'idaani punabbhavo'"ti.
Idamavoca Bhagavaa. Attamanaa pa~ncavaggiyaa bhikkhuu Bhagavato
bhaasita.m abhinandunti.
Imasmi~nca pana veyyaakara.nasmi.m bha~n~namaane aayasmato
Ko.n.da~n~nassa viraja.m viitamala.m dhammacakkhu.m udapaadi - "ya.m
ki~nci samudayadhamma.m, sabba.m ta.m nirodhadhamman"ti.
----------
~naa.na~n/ca/ pana/ me/       dassana.m/ udapaadi/
/knowledge/ and/ then/ in me/ vision/       arose/

'akuppaa/ me/ vimutti/,           aya.m/ antimaa/ jaati/,
'unshakable/ in me /liberation/, this/ last/ birth/,

natthi/     'idaani/ puna/bbhavo/'"ti.
there is not/ now/ again  /life/
---------
The knowledge and vision then arose in me - 'Unshakable is liberation
in me, this is my last birth, now there is no more existence again'.
---------
Idam/ avoca/ Bhagavaa.
Thus/ said/ the Blessed One.

Attamanaa/ pa~ncavaggiyaa/         bhikkhuu
delighted/belonging to the group of five/the monks

Bhagavato/ bhaasita.m/ abhinandunti.
by the Blessed One/what was spoken/rejoiced/
---------
Thus said the Blessed One. Delighted, the monks of the group of five
rejoiced in
the Blessed One's words.
-----------------------
Imasmi~nca/ pana/ veyyaakara.nasmi.m/ bha~n~namaane
Then when this explication was being spoken,

aayasmato/ Ko.n.da~n~nassa/ viraja.m/ viitamala.m/
for the venerable/Konda~n~na/free from defilement/without stain/

dhammacakkhu.m/ udapaadi/
eye of dhamma/ arose
--------
there arose in the venerable Konda~n~na the vision of the Dhamma,
free from defilement or stain
-----------
"ya.m ki~nci/ samudayadhamma.m/, sabba.m/ ta.m/ nirodhadhamman"ti./
whatever/arising nature/                all/  that/  cessation nature/

"Whatever is subject to arising, all that is subject to cessation".
-----
Then when this explication was being spoken, there arose in the
venerable Konda~n~na the vision of the Dhamma, free from defilement
or stain - "Whatever is subject to arising, all that is subject to
cessation".
---------------
Text: The knowledge and vision then arose in me - 'Unshakable is
liberation in me, this is my last birth, now there is no more
existence again'.
Thus said the Blessed One. Delighted, the monks of the group of five
rejoiced in
the Blessed One's words.
Then when this explication was being spoken, there arose in the
venerable Konda~n~na the vision of the Dhamma, free from defilement
or stain - "Whatever is subject to arising, all that is subject to
cessation".
----------
grammar: Imasmi~nca pana veyyaakara.nasmi.m bha~n~namaane: locative
absolute, Warder Ch 16, where this expression is given as an
example). bha~n~namaane: bha.nati: to speak, proclaim. ba~n~nati is
passive (Warder index of verbs). -maana: present participle.
Ba~n~namaana: being spoken.
-------------
Nina.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[22/120]

The New Pali Course Part III (1950)
Prof. A. P. Buddhadatta Maha Nayaka Thera

Chapter VII Definition of the Indeclinables

112. neva (=na+eva), indeed not

"Ta`n kho pan'eta.m paapakamma.m n'eva maataraa kata.m, na pitaraa kata.m."
[A.i,139]

YP: "That certainly this evil deed (is) indeed not done by mother, not done by
father."

YP: I have "kho pana" (but indeed) as 'certainly'.

113. nanu (na+nu), is it not? (This is in affirmation and interrogation.)

"Nanu te puttena Ma.t.taku.n.dalinaa mayi mana.m pasaadetvaa sagge
nibbatta-bhaavo kathito?" [DhA.i,33]

"Was it not told by your son, Ma.t.taku.n.dali, that he was born in heaven on
account of the faith in me?"

114. nu expresses uncertainty and interrogation

"Gato nu Cittakuu.ta.m vaa
  Kelaasa.m vaa Yugandhara.m?" [DhA.iii,217]

Has he gone to (the mountain) Cittakuu.ta, or to Kelaasa or Yugandhara?

115. namo, homage; veneration

"Namo te purisaaja~n~na; Namo to purisuttama." [Theg.v.629]

"Hail unto thee, thou nobly born of men!
  Hail unto thee, thou highest among men!" [Ps.B.274]

116. naha, is adversative and negative

"Naha nuuna so orako dhammavinayo, na saa orakaa pabbajjaa yattha... Vipassii
kumaaro... pabbajito." [D.ii,30]

Surely this is not ordinary religious rule, this is no common going forth in
which prince Vipassii has become a monk.

117. naama, just; indeed; for sure

"Pamattassa ca naama cattaaro apaayaa sakagehasadisaa." [DhA.i,9]

Surely the four states of misery are like his own home to a negligent person.

118. nuuna, certainly; is it then?

"Etaasa.m nuuna bhante samaadhi-bhaavanaana.m sacchikiriyaahetu bhikkhuu
Bhagavati brahmacariya.m carantii ti?" [D.i,155]

"Then, Sir, is it for the sake of attaining to the practice of such
self-concentration that the brethren lead the religious life under the Blessed
One?"

119. nicca.m, always; constantly

"Nicca.m aaraddhaviriyehi pa.n.ditehi sahaa vase." [Theg.v.148]

Always live with the wise who are strenuous.

120. pageva, beforehand; early; not to speak of

(a) Se.t.thidhiitaa pi'ssa pageva sa~n~na.m adaasi." [A.A.429]

The millionaire's daughter gave him information beforehand.

(b) "Manasikaatum pi me esaa, bhikkhave, disaa na phaasu hoti, pageva gantu.m."
[A.i,275]

It is unpleasant for me, O monks, even to think of such a quarter, not to speak
of going there.

121. pagevatara.m, very early

"Aayasmaa Anuruddho pagevatara.m aagaccheyya." [M.iii,145]

The venerable Anuruddha may come very early.

122. pacchato, from behind

"Sujaataa pi yaanaka.m pahaaya... paridevamaanaa pacchato pacchato agamaasi."
[J.ii,123]

YP: "Sujaataa too, leaving the carriage... (and) lamenting, went close behind."

YP: From PTS PED, pacchato pacchato: close behind.

(b) "Mu~nca pure, mu~nca pacchato,
      Majjhe mu~nca bhavassa paaraguu." [Dhp.v.348]

"Give up the things of the future, give up the things of the past,
  Give up the things of the present; cross to the farther shore." [B.L.iii,229]

ref: http://www.tipitaka.net/pali/synthesis/pali3.00.cdv

(to be continued...)

Dear DC,

Op 31-dec-2009, om 17:10 heeft DC Wijeratna het volgende geschreven:

> In your tranlation of the Dhammacakka passage, the word 'deva',
> occurs twice. May be the deva in " sadevake" and the deva in
> "sadevamanussaaya" have different meanings.
-------
N: Thank you for your observation. It is a good idea to compare
different translations. I am glad you remind me.
Ven. Bodhi just translates in both cases: devas.

I compare with Nanamoli's translation:< I did not claim in the world
with its gods, its Maras and high divinities, in this generation with
its monks and brahmans, with its princes and men to have discovered
the full awakening that is supreme.>

Ven. Narada: I did not acknowledge in this world inclusive of gods,
Māras and Brahmas and amongst the hosts of ascetics and priests, gods
and men, ...

Piya (<http://dharmafarer.googlepages.com> ): in this world with its
gods, its Maaras [evil ones], and its Brahmas [High Gods], this
generation with its recluses and brahmins, its rulers and people.

Piya has a helpful note to rulers:
deva, here in the sense of  “devas by convention” (sammati,deva),
ie kings. The other 2 types of deva are“gods by
rebirth” (upapatti,deva) and “gods by
purification” (visuddhi,deva), i.e. the Buddhas, Pratyeka  Buddhas
(N: sskr for Pacceka Buddhas, Silent Buddhas) and arhats.

The second time deva is used it can be translated as king or rulers.

I just have a problem when deva is used together with manussa,
sadevamanussaaya, I am thinking of the Buddha being called teacher of
devas and men.

Nina.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Nina,

In your tranlation of the Dhammacakka passage, the word 'deva', occurs twice.
May be the deva in "�sadevake"�and the deva in �"sadevamanussaaya"�have
different meanings.

Mettaa,�D. G. D. C. Wijeratna




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Kumara,

Chan has a deep distrust of words (as did Buddha. See, inter alia, 
Po.t.tapaadasutta DN 9, 202 ). When the Chan teacher tries to explain with
language the nature of reality to his student, it is called "stepping into the
weeds". Therefore they developed non-linguistic forms of teaching like the shout
or the slap/kick.
In Koan 69 of the Book of Serenity, for example, Nanquan asks  a lecturer, "What
is the ultimate principle of the Nirvana Scripture?" The lecturer said "Thusness
is the ultimate principle" Nanquan said "As soon as you call it 'thus', it has
already changed". Later he says "Where knowledge doesn't reach, don't speak of
it; if you speak of it, then horns grow on the head."
I am sure if I look through the Blue Cliff Record of 100 koans and the Book of
Serenity (a further 100 koans) long enough, I can find an exact quote about
"going straight to hell" , but in almost every koan there is a deep distrust of
words - getting stuck in words gets us stuck in conceptual structures and
Buddhism is about renouncing all conceptual structures, whether of the ego, the
object, decisions, prejudices, words - or whatever we are stuck to.

Mettaa, Bryan

Cleary, Thomas. 2005. Book of Serenity, One Hundred Zen Dialogues. Boston:
Shambhala

Cleary, Thomas & Cleary, J. C. 2005. The Blue Cliff Record. Boston: Shambhala






________________________________
From: Kumâra Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...>
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, December 31, 2009 3:28:00 AM
Subject: When you start to use words... {Re: [Pali] Previous email  resent with
Velthuis translieration and translation of Pali passage}


Bryan Levman wrote thus at 03:11 31/12/2009:
>Yes I agree, neither Love nor Nibbana can be described with words. As they say
in Chan, when you start to use words, you've already gone to hell,

Hmm.... Is that true?

kb





       __________________________________________________________________
Get the name you've always wanted @ymail.com or @rocketmail.com! Go to
http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/jacko/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bryan Levman wrote thus at 03:11 31/12/2009:
>Yes I agree, neither Love nor Nibbana can be described with words. As they say
in Chan, when you start to use words, you've already gone to hell,

Hmm.... Is that true?

kb

I must have composed my posting poorly. I meant to ask if anyone have this so
that I can get a copy for myself. :-)

kb

Piya Tan wrote thus at 17:00 30/12/2009:
>Ven Kumara,
>
>I would like to read this article; so please send it to me.
>
>Thanks and happy new year,
>
>With metta & mudita,
>
>Piya
>
>On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 10:40 AM, Kum�ra Bhikkhu
<<mailto:kumara.bhikkhu@...>kumara.bhikkhu@...> wrote:
>
>
>Would anyone have this?
>
>Pannasiri, Bhadanta 1950: "Sig�lov�da-Sutta", Visva-Bharati Annals, vol. 3 pp.
150-228.
>
>I'm told he makes some general comparative remarks in the first pages and then
translates the Chinese versions. FYI, there about 5 versions of the sutta in the
Agamas, clearly suggesting an evolution. The sutta has long seemed suspicious to
me.
>
>kb
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>The Minding Centre
>Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
>Singapore 650644
>Tel: 8211 0879
>Meditation courses & therapy:
<http://themindingcentre.org>http://themindingcentre.org
>Sutta translation: <https://dharmafarer.net>https://dharmafarer.net


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear friends,

   Dhammacakkappavattanasutta, no 15.
----------
Text:
Yaavakiiva~nca me, bhikkhave, imesu catuusu ariyasaccesu eva.m
tipariva.t.ta.m dvaadasaakaara.m yathaabhuuta.m ~naa.nadassana.m na
suvisuddha.m ahosi, n'eva taavaaha.m, bhikkhave, sadevake loke
samaarake sabrahmake sassama.nabraahma.niyaa pajaaya sadevamanussaaya
'anuttara.m sammaasambodhi.m abhisambuddho'ti pacca~n~naasi.m.
--------------
Yaavakiiva~n/ca/ me/, bhikkhave/, imesu catuusu ariyasaccesu/
   So long as /and/ for me/   monks/       /as to these four noble truths

eva.m/ tipariva.t.ta.m/ dvaadasaakaara.m
thus/in three rounds/ in /twelve ways/

yathaabhuuta.m/ ~naa.nadassana.m/ na/ suvisuddha.m/ ahosi/

just as it is/ knowledge and vision/not/ well-purified/was/

-------
N: grammar: yaavakiiva: yaava: so long as. kiiva: how much, how many.
yaava taava (taava in next section): so long as. n'eva taavaaha.m: na
eva taava aaha.m: so long I did not...
taavaaha.m: taava aaha.m.
yathaabhuuta.m: in reality, in truth. bhuuta: become. bhuuta.m:
nature, truth.
-------------
So long as, monks, my knowledge and vision just as it is of these
four noble truths was not well-purified, in three rounds and twelve
ways thus,
-----------------------------
n'eva/   taavaaha.m,/ bhikkhave/, sadevake/ loke/ samaarake/ sabrahmake
not thus/so long I /monks/     with its devas/ in the world/with
maara/ with brahma/

sassama.nabraahma.niyaa/ pajaaya/ sadevamanussaaya/
with recluses and brahmins/in generation/with devas and humans/

'anuttara.m/ sammaasambodhi.m/ abhisambuddho'ti /pacca~n~naasi.m/.
unsurpassed/perfect enlightenment/completely realized/I claimed/
---------
grammar: suffix -ka or -ika: for bahubbiihi compounds. Samaarake:
denotes the relationship between: in the world, loke, and maara, brahma.
sassama.nabraahma.niyaa/ pajaaya : pajaa: generation, world. Suffix -
iya qualifies pajaa.

------------
then, monks, I did not claim, in this world with its devas, Mara, and
Brahma, in this generation with its recluses and Brahmins, devas and
humans: "I have completely realized unsurpassed perfect enlightenment".

-------------------
So long as, monks, my knowledge and vision just as it is of these
four noble truths was not well-purified, in three rounds and twelve
ways thus, then, monks, I did not claim, in this world with its
devas, Mara, and Brahma, in this generation with its recluses and
Brahmins, devas and humans: "I have completely realized unsurpassed
perfect enlightenment".
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
Yato ca kho me, bhikkhave, imesu catuusu ariyasaccesu eva.m
tipariva.t.ta.m dvaadasaakaara.m yathaabhuuta.m ~naa.nadassana.m
suvisuddha.m ahosi, athaaha.m, bhikkhave, sadevake loke samaarake
sabrahmake sassama.nabraahma.niyaa pajaaya sadevamanussaaya
'anuttara.m sammaasambodhi.m abhisambuddho'ti pacca~n~naasi.m.
----------------------------
Yato ca/ kho/        /me, /bhikkhave, /imesu catuusu ariyasaccesu
And since/,indeed/for me/monks/ as to these four noble truths

eva.m/ tipariva.t.ta.m/ dvaadasaakaara.m
   thus/in three rounds/ in twelve ways/

yathaabhuuta.m /~naa.nadassana.m/ suvisuddha.m ahosi/,

just as it is/ knowledge and vision/ well-purified/was/

And since, monks, my knowledge and vision just as it is of these four
noble truths was indeed well-purified, in three rounds and twelve
ways thus,
-----------
athaaha.m/, bhikkhave/, sadevake/ loke/ samaarake/ sabrahmake
then I/  monks/with its devas/ in the world/with maara/ with brahma/

sassama.nabraahma.niyaa/ pajaaya /   sadevamanussaaya/
with recluses and brahmins/in generation/with devas and humans/

anuttara.m/sammaasambodhi.m/ abhisambuddho'ti/ pacca~n~naasi.m.
unsurpassed/perfect enlightenment/completely realized/I claimed

then, monks, I did claim, in this world with its devas, Mara, and
Brahma, in this generation with its recluses and Brahmins, devas and
humans: "I have completely realized unsurpassed perfect enlightenment".

-------------------
And since, monks, my knowledge and vision just as it is of these four
noble truths was indeed well-purified, in three rounds and twelve
ways thus, then, monks, I did claim, in this world with its devas,
Mara, and Brahma, in this generation with its recluses and Brahmins,
devas and humans: "I have completely realized unsurpassed perfect
enlightenment".
--------
N: In three rounds and twelve ways: The three rounds of the four
noble Truths constitute twelve ways.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------
Nina.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi DC,

Yes I agree, neither Love nor Nibbana can be described with words. As they say
in Chan, when you start to use words, you've already gone to hell,

Mettā,

Bryan






________________________________
From: DC Wijeratna <dcwijeratna@...>
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, December 29, 2009 10:40:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Pali] Previous email resent with Velthuis translieration and
translation of Pali passage


Hi Bryan,

"
True love is the love with no opposite - selfless, unselfish, total
unconditional compassion with no ego in the way - same for Nibbana."

"with no ego in the way": Love is a concept, or may be an emotion, that has the
"ego". A loves B, C, D, ....whole world.." Still the A is there. For a 'Nibbanic
mind", there is no world to love. It is not possible to use any human concept to
describe Nibbaana. This is what MN 1 is about. The bhikkhus to whom it was
preached did not accept it delightfully (Really did not understand it). The only
sutta in the Nikaayas, to my knowledge, where that happened.

Mettaa,

DC(D. G. D. C. Wijeratna)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people.. Go to Yahoo!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi All,

As per Ong Yong Peng's instructions I have added a 106-book lot that I have made
available on eBay to the buy/sell app.  It can be found here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/app/forsale/entry/view/0029ffc2-f548-4f34-8dc\
8-a0fccbb3f318

Please take a look if you are interested in obtaining a large selection of some
amazing Pali and related books, with many rare and out-of-print, for a very
reasonable price.

Very best,

Alan

P.S. If you are not yourself interested, but know someone who might be, please
do relate this information to them, or alternatively, let me know, and I can
contact them directly.