Skip to search.

Breaking News Visit Yahoo! News for the latest.

×Close this window

TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons · The True Sabbaths And New Moons
  • Members Only
  • Post
  • Files
  • Photos
  • Links
  • Database
  • Polls
  • Calendar

The Yahoo! Groups Product Blog

Check it out!

Group Information

? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Hear how Yahoo! Groups has changed the lives of others. Take me there.

Messages
Message #
Search:
Advanced
 Messages Help
Messages
Topics
Hot Topics
Messages 877 - 909 of 2742   Oldest  |  < Older  |  Newer >  |  Newest
Messages: Show Message Summaries Sort by Date ^  
#877 From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@...>
Date: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:31 pm
Subject: Re: Two Scriptural Studies rebutting the lunar sabbath teaching... 		yahwehcommunity
Send Email Send Email
 
Arnold,
 
IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!
 
Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the Pentecost from the 16th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.
 
Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 16th Day of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the week!
 
You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!
 
May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to STOP your HERESY!
 
In YAHSHUA's Name,
 
Carlo Tognoni
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
=================================================================================================
 

 

 



----- Original Message ----
From: "YHWHPeople@..." <YHWHPeople@...>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:28:49 AM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Two Scriptural Studies rebutting the lunar sabbath teaching...

ACarlo wrote,
 
“It's pathetic and ridiculous that you can even claim that lunar
> sabbatarians can count in the SAME way that Larry and June Acheson
> make their count to Pentecost, AFTER you said that is WRONG!
>
> And, ANYWAY, even if you do it so, your count would NOT end on
> their SAME Day, but 2 or 3 Days BEFORE it!
>
> The SCRIPTURAL Count to Pentecost begins AFTER a Seventh Day”
 
RESPONSE;I agree that the scriptural Pentecost begins after a seventh day/15 but you are wrong when you say that lunar sabbatarians can not count in the SAME way that Larry and June Acheson because they begin their count on the 16th of the first month and simply count 50 days with no respect to Sabbaths.  Please tell me why a lunar Sabbath person cannot do the same thing.  Remember Larry just counts 50 consecutive days.  We could do the same thing and just 50 consecutive days. The new Moon days and Sabbaths would be counted in the 50 consecutive days same as Larry’s. So your statement is wrong again, and I stand by my statement that Larry is being deceitful because Lunar Sabbath people can count to Pentecost the same way as he does and come out on the SAME day.
 
 
Brother Arnold



-----Original Message-----
From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 12:39 pm
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Two Scriptural Studies rebutting the lunar sabbath teaching...

Shalom Jeremiah!
 
Thank you very much for your kind message!
 
I am Very Glad that you have appreciate my explanation. Praise YAHWEH!!!
 
Yes, as you rightly said, the sign of Islam is the crescent moon, and the moon worship is a very old practice.
 
May YAHWEH Bless you and yours!
 
True Love in YAHSHUA,
 
your brother Carlo
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====


 
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark A. Fredrick <mrsf@execpc. com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:57:48 AM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Two Scriptural Studies rebutting the lunar sabbath teaching...

Thank you for your explanation. It is very clear. The sign of Islam is
the crescent moon. This moon worship goes back at least to the time of
Abram.
Jeremiah

The Community of YAHWEH wrote:

> Shalom Wayne!
>
> Many Thanks for your kind message, sharing your doubts, and asking
> questions, and help in clarify this Important Subject!
>
> I appreciate very much your humility, sincerity, and honesty in saying
> that you may be wrong and you are a lot of the time.
>
> To my current Scriptural knowledge and understanding (but I may be
> wrong too, as I have been a lot of time too), my answers to your
> questions are:
>
> 1- The Scriptural Day and The Scriptural Sabbath is the 12 Hours of
> Light Time, beginning at DAWN (with visible Sign in the Sky at
> SUNRISE), and ending at DUSK (with visible Sign in the Sky at SUNSET),
> and after that the Night comes, that is the Darkness Time, from Dark
> to Dawn.
>
> 2- The Scriptural Daily Cycle, from a Day to the Next Day, runs for 24
> Hours, from DAWN to DAWN.
>
> 3- The Scriptural Month begins at the Conjunction of the Moon with the
> Sun, and runs for 30 Days, from a Conjuction to the Next Conjunction.
>
> 4- The Scriptural Count to The Pentecost begins the Day after the
> Seventh Day Sabbath when the Wave Sheaf is Offered, when the Barley
> Harvest is Ripen (usually a couple of weeks after the Days of
> Unleavened Bread), and ends the Day after the Seventh Sabbath, that
> is, 50 Days later.
>
> 5- The Sabbath, generally speaking, has to be properly Keep as a Day
> of Rest, to be Set Apart to YAHWEH, with a Set Apart Convocation, and
> no work on It. Just as YAHSHUA clearly showed, to help others,
> especially in emergency cases, is permissible also on The Sabbath.
>
> May YAHWEH Bless you and yours!
>
> True Love in YAHSHUA,
>
> Carlo Tognoni
>
> Group owner and moderator
>
> The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
> www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com <http://www.thecommu nityofyahweh. com>
>
> ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: wayne newton <boofwayne@yahoo. com>
> To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 9:26:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Two Scriptural Studies
> rebutting the lunar sabbath teaching...
>
> Shalom to all,
>
> Forgive me, I am confused. So do we use a lunar count or a solar? I
> may be wrong and am alot of the time, I thought the new day starts at
> sundown and that the luner is what we are to use. Please teach me
> this. And also, how do we properly keep Shabbat? I so would love
> someone to clear this up for me. Yeshua bless youall
>
> The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com
> <http://yahoo. com/>> wrote:
>
> Arnold,
>
> actually you are deceptive to say the least, since your tactic is
> to move the attention to another subject, and to another person!
>
> In no way, Arnold, since the subject is LUNAR SABBATH TEACHING,
> and the person who is spreading it is YOU, and NOT Larry and June
> Acheson, and how they make their count to the Pentecost!
>
> YOUR count to the Pentecost is WRONG, and YOUR lunar sabbath
> teching is FALSE, as Larry and June Acheson clearly showed it in
> their Scriptural Study!
>
> It doesn't matter if their count to Pentecost is ERRONEOUS too,
> just as their sunset / dark to sunset / dark day, just as YOUR is!
>
> It's pathetic and ridiculous that you can even claim that lunar
> sabbatarians can count in the SAME way that Larry and June Acheson
> make their count to Pentecost, AFTER you said that is WRONG!
>
> And, ANYWAY, even if you do it so, your count would NOT end on
> their SAME Day, but 2 or 3 Days BEFORE it!
>
> The SCRIPTURAL Count to Pentecost begins AFTER a Seventh Day
> Sabbath, when the Wave Sheaf is Offered, just after the Barley
> Harvest is Reapen (AFTER, AND NOT DURING THE DAYS OF UNLEAVENED
> BREAD), and the Count of the "Omer" ends the Day AFTER the Seventh
> Sabbath is complete, 50 Day after, just as The Scriptures teach in
> Leviticus Chapter 23!
>
> YOU DON'T!!! Your count to Pentecost is TOTALLY WRONG, because of
> YOUR FALSE lunar sabbath teaching!
>
> You do NOT count your WRONG "extended sabbaths" at the end of your
> lunar month, but, instead, you count the other sabbaths, trying
> to adjust 50 Days!
>
> Really your count to your so-called "pentecost" is 52 or 53 Day
> long, CONTRARY TO THE SCRIPTURES that clearly teach 50 Days!
>
> And if you actually would count 50 Days from the day after a
> Seventh Day Sabbath, then your count would end on a Fifth or Sixth
> Day of the Week, because of your 2 or 3 "extended sabbaths", and
> NOT on the Day AFTER the Seventh Sabbath, as The Scriptures
> clearly teach!
>
> And if you count your 2 or 3 "extended sabbaths" at the end of
> your lunar month, as "sabbaths", then seven sabbaths are already
> passed after 36 or 43 Days, CONTRARY TO THE SCRIPTURES that
> clearly teach 50 Days need for Seven Sabbaths to pass, and the Day
> AFTER It!
>
> Your lunar sabbath teaching is SCRIPTURALLY FALSE, and also
> HISTORICALLY WRONG!
>
> May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and
> to STOP spreading your HERESY!
>
> In YAHSHUA's Name,
>
> Carlo Tognoni
>
> Group owner and moderator
>
> The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
> www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com <http://www.thecommu nityofyahweh. com/>
>
> ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= =========
> ========= ========= ========= ========= ====
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "YHWHPeople@ aol.com <http://aol.com/>" <YHWHPeople@ aol. com>
> To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com <http://ups.com/>
> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 7:43:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Two Scriptural Studies
> rebutting the lunar sabbath teaching...
>
> To show what extent and how Brother Larry operates in trying to
> disprove Lunar Sabbaths, he uses the count of 50 days to the
> Pentecost, etc. But what Larry don¢t tell is that he counts 50
> days from the 16th of Abib to Pentecost, He does NOT count
> Sabbaths, he just counts 7 sevens and calls them weeks that do not
> end in a Sabbath which is not scriptural.
>
> My point is that a Lunar Sabbath keeper can also count the same
> way as Larry (50 days from wave sheaf) and will keep Pentecost on
> the same day as Larry, yet Larry turns around and says Lunar
> people has no way to reach Pentecost. That should let you know
> what kind of person you are dealing with, that is very deceptive
> to say the least. He makes many fair speeches to try to pull
> people away from the true Sabbath. If anyone reads his book
> closely you will catch on to him.
>
> Brother Arnold
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tesh <teshturner@ yahoo. com>
> To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com <http://ups.com/>
> Sent: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 9:31 am
> Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Two Scriptural Studies
> rebutting the lunar sabbath teaching...
>
> being a lunar keeper..I would like to read this book..however. ..I
> dont see the 4 parts here posted...can you send that to me for
> reading?
>
> The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com
> <http://yahoo. com/>> wrote:
>
> Shalom Everyone!
>
> I would like to lovingly invite you to read the Scriptural
> Studies, "Something Different: Lunar Sabbaths", by Larry and
> June Acheson, that I have posted here (IN 4 PARTS), and "In
> Search of the True Sabbath", by W. Glenn Moore, that I have
> posted here (IN 2 PARTS).
>
> They not only show and give historical references that the
> Jews did not know and keep the Sabbaths to be originally by
> the Moon, but they also TOTALLY DESTROY the lunar sabbath
> teaching, showing Scriptural Seventh Day Sabbaths NOT by the
> Moon, to be in The Scriptures, besides all the other
> UNSCRIPTURAL aspects of the FALSE lunar sabbath teaching, as
> neutral or sabbath new moons, and extended sabbaths at the end
> of each lunar month, with no way to prepare and cook foods for
> two or three days each month, and wrong count of 50 days to
> the Pentecost, etc.
>
> May YAHWEH Bless your Understanding of HIS Will and Word, The
> Truth!
>
> True Love in YAHSHUA,
>
> Carlo Tognoni
>
> Group owner and moderator
>
> The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
> www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com
> <http://www.thecommu nityofyahweh. com/>
>
> ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= =========
> ========= ========= ========= ========= ====
>
>
>
>
>
> Tesh
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail.
> See how.
> <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=51732/ *http://overview .mail.yahoo. com/>
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL
> Mail
> <http://o.aolcdn. com/cdn.webmail. aol.com/mailtour /aol/en-us/ index.htm? ncid=AOLAOF00020 000000970>!
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile.
> Try it now.
> <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=51731/ *http://mobile. yahoo.com/ sports;_ylt= At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G 1SQtBI7ntAcJ>
>
>
>


Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!


Reply | Messages in this Topic (13)
#878 From: Seekutruth@...
Date: Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:18 pm
Subject: Re: Two Scriptural Studies rebutting the lunar s... 		Seekutruth@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Shalom to all:
 
Greetings in the name of Yahweh through His Son Yeshua the Messiah!
 
Carlo, I would like to thank you for adding me to the distribution list for this discussion.  I hope you understand why I'm not really interested in participating, at least not at this time.  I spent over three years in what I feel was a fruitless forum discussion with lunar sabbatarians, and quite frankly, I do not expect this discussion to be any different. 
 
When I first became acquainted with lunar sabbatarians, I really didn't feel any animosity towards them, and I still believe that we should do our best to treat everyone with respect, even those with whom we are in sharp disagreement.  I have never condemned anyone, nor do I plan on ever doing such a thing.  Yahweh, through His Son Yeshua, will judge us all, and I don't believe they need any help from me.  I am merely a truth seeker on a journey, hopefully to His Kingdom, Yahweh willing.  I don't claim to have the truth, but I'm doing the best I can with the resources that Yahweh has given me to work with.  Living a life that is pleasing and honorable to Yahweh is my primary goal.  I try to presume that everyone I meet has that same basic goal, and only when I sense otherwise do I react in what some might consider an undesirable manner.  Ultimately, when I find myself in the presence of anyone that I do not believe shares my goal, I try to remove myself from their presence. 
 
It took me three years, but I finally removed myself from the presence of lunar sabbatarians in the "True Sabbath" forum at EliYah's Forums.  I believe I should have bowed out long before I did.  I was recently informed that the forum owner, aware of the unfruitful proceedings in that forum discussion, locked everyone out of it.  I can only wonder why he waited so long to do this.
 
Suffice it to say that my relationship with lunar sabbatarians did not improve as a result of participating in that forum.  Rather, it deteriorated.  Judging by the tone of the current discussion, nothing seems to have changed, including my desire to become involved in exchanges with lunar sabbatarians.  Based upon previous experience, I know that any exchanges I have with them will be counter-productive. 
 
You may be aware that, as time allows, June and I are working on a revision of our original study.  As a "work in progress," each new chapter is updated on our web site as it is completed, with a separate link created for each one.  Currently, we've only completed the first six chapters.  With a total of over 30 chapters in the study, it will be quite some time before our revision is completed.  Nevertheless, I am persuaded that the first six chapters, in and of themselves, completely disprove the doctrine of lunar sabbaths.  Here is a link to the introduction of that study, and the links for the individual chapters are found at the end of the introduction:
 
 
Again, I do appreciate the kind invitation to participate in this discussion.  Some will interpret my decision to not join as a fear of being proven wrong, etc.  It wouldn't be the first time such conclusions have been drawn, and I'm sure it wouldn't be the last.  Nevertheless, suffice it to say that I have other priorities in my life right now, and I believe the evidence we present in our study speaks for itself. 
 
By the way, regarding the count to Pentecost, June and I have written a study on this topic, which may be read by accessing the following link.  I am thankful to report that a man who once told me we cannot have Yahweh's Spirit if we count to Pentecost the way we do apologized after he read our study. 
 
 
Take care and may Yahweh bless!
 
Love in Messiah,
Larry Acheson
 
In a message dated 11/21/2007 2:32:08 P.M. Central Standard Time, yahwehcommunity@... writes:

Arnold,
 
IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!
 
Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the Pentecost from the 12th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.
 
Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 12th Day of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the week!
 
You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!
 
May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to STOP your HERESY!
 
In YAHSHUA's Name,
 
Carlo Tognoni
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
=================================================================================================
 

 

 



----- Original Message ----
From: "YHWHPeople@aol.com" <YHWHPeople@aol.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:28:49 AM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Two Scriptural Studies rebutting the lunar sabbath teaching...

ACarlo wrote,
 
“It's pathetic and ridiculous that you can even claim that lunar
> sabbatarians can count in the SAME way that Larry and June Acheson
> make their count to Pentecost, AFTER you said that is WRONG!
>
> And, ANYWAY, even if you do it so, your count would NOT end on
> their SAME Day, but 2 or 3 Days BEFORE it!
>
> The SCRIPTURAL Count to Pentecost begins AFTER a Seventh Dayâ€
 
RESPONSE;I agree that the scriptural Pentecost begins after a seventh day/15 but you are wrong when you say that lunar sabbatarians can not count in the SAME way that Larry and June Acheson because they begin their count on the 16th of the first month and simply count 50 days with no respect to Sabbaths.  Please tell me why a lunar Sabbath person cannot do the same thing.  Remember Larry just counts 50 consecutive days.  We could do the same thing and just 50 consecutive days. The new Moon days and Sabbaths would be counted in the 50 consecutive days same as Larry’s. So your statement is wrong again, and I stand by my statement that Larry is being deceitful because Lunar Sabbath people can count to Pentecost the same way as he does and come out on the SAME day.
 
 
Brother Arnold



-----Original Message-----
From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 12:39 pm
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Two Scriptural Studies rebutting the lunar sabbath teaching...

Shalom Jeremiah!
 
Thank you very much for your kind message!
 
I am Very Glad that you have appreciate my explanation. Praise YAHWEH!!!
 
Yes, as you rightly said, the sign of Islam is the crescent moon, and the moon worship is a very old practice.
 
May YAHWEH Bless you and yours!
 
True Love in YAHSHUA,
 
your brother Carlo
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====


 
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark A. Fredrick <mrsf@execpc. com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:57:48 AM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Two Scriptural Studies rebutting the lunar sabbath teaching...

Thank you for your explanation. It is very clear. The sign of Islam is
the crescent moon. This moon worship goes back at least to the time of
Abram.
Jeremiah

The Community of YAHWEH wrote:

> Shalom Wayne!
>
> Many Thanks for your kind message, sharing your doubts, and asking
> questions, and help in clarify this Important Subject!
>
> I appreciate very much your humility, sincerity, and honesty in saying
> that you may be wrong and you are a lot of the time.
>
> To my current Scriptural knowledge and understanding (but I may be
> wrong too, as I have been a lot of time too), my answers to your
> questions are:
>
> 1- The Scriptural Day and The Scriptural Sabbath is the 12 Hours of
> Light Time, beginning at DAWN (with visible Sign in the Sky at
> SUNRISE), and ending at DUSK (with visible Sign in the Sky at SUNSET),
> and after that the Night comes, that is the Darkness Time, from Dark
> to Dawn.
>
> 2- The Scriptural Daily Cycle, from a Day to the Next Day, runs for 24
> Hours, from DAWN to DAWN.
>
> 3- The Scriptural Month begins at the Conjunction of the Moon with the
> Sun, and runs for 30 Days, from a Conjuction to the Next Conjunction.
>
> 4- The Scriptural Count to The Pentecost begins the Day after the
> Seventh Day Sabbath when the Wave Sheaf is Offered, when the Barley
> Harvest is Ripen (usually a couple of weeks after the Days of
> Unleavened Bread), and ends the Day after the Seventh Sabbath, that
> is, 50 Days later.
>
> 5- The Sabbath, generally speaking, has to be properly Keep as a Day
> of Rest, to be Set Apart to YAHWEH, with a Set Apart Convocation, and
> no work on It. Just as YAHSHUA clearly showed, to help others,
> especially in emergency cases, is permissible also on The Sabbath.
>
> May YAHWEH Bless you and yours!
>
> True Love in YAHSHUA,
>
> Carlo Tognoni
>
> Group owner and moderator
>
> The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
> www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com <http://www.thecommu nityofyahweh. com>
>
> ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: wayne newton <boofwayne@yahoo. com>
> To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 9:26:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Two Scriptural Studies
> rebutting the lunar sabbath teaching...
>
> Shalom to all,
>
> Forgive me, I am confused. So do we use a lunar count or a solar? I
> may be wrong and am alot of the time, I thought the new day starts at
> sundown and that the luner is what we are to use. Please teach me
> this. And also, how do we properly keep Shabbat? I so would love
> someone to clear this up for me. Yeshua bless youall
>
> The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com
> <http://yahoo. com/>> wrote:
>
> Arnold,
>
> actually you are deceptive to say the least, since your tactic is
> to move the attention to another subject, and to another person!
>
> In no way, Arnold, since the subject is LUNAR SABBATH TEACHING,
> and the person who is spreading it is YOU, and NOT Larry and June
> Acheson, and how they make their count to the Pentecost!
>
> YOUR count to the Pentecost is WRONG, and YOUR lunar sabbath
> teching is FALSE, as Larry and June Acheson clearly showed it in
> their Scriptural Study!
>
> It doesn't matter if their count to Pentecost is ERRONEOUS too,
> just as their sunset / dark to sunset / dark day, just as YOUR is!
>
> It's pathetic and ridiculous that you can even claim that lunar
> sabbatarians can count in the SAME way that Larry and June Acheson
> make their count to Pentecost, AFTER you said that is WRONG!
>
> And, ANYWAY, even if you do it so, your count would NOT end on
> their SAME Day, but 2 or 3 Days BEFORE it!
>
> The SCRIPTURAL Count to Pentecost begins AFTER a Seventh Day
> Sabbath, when the Wave Sheaf is Offered, just after the Barley
> Harvest is Reapen (AFTER, AND NOT DURING THE DAYS OF UNLEAVENED
> BREAD), and the Count of the "Omer" ends the Day AFTER the Seventh
> Sabbath is complete, 50 Day after, just as The Scriptures teach in
> Leviticus Chapter 23!
>
> YOU DON'T!!! Your count to Pentecost is TOTALLY WRONG, because of
> YOUR FALSE lunar sabbath teaching!
>
> You do NOT count your WRONG "extended sabbaths" at the end of your
> lunar month, but, instead, you count the other sabbaths, trying
> to adjust 50 Days!
>
> Really your count to your so-called "pentecost" is 52 or 53 Day
> long, CONTRARY TO THE SCRIPTURES that clearly teach 50 Days!
>
> And if you actually would count 50 Days from the day after a
> Seventh Day Sabbath, then your count would end on a Fifth or Sixth
> Day of the Week, because of your 2 or 3 "extended sabbaths", and
> NOT on the Day AFTER the Seventh Sabbath, as The Scriptures
> clearly teach!
>
> And if you count your 2 or 3 "extended sabbaths" at the end of
> your lunar month, as "sabbaths", then seven sabbaths are already
> passed after 36 or 43 Days, CONTRARY TO THE SCRIPTURES that
> clearly teach 50 Days need for Seven Sabbaths to pass, and the Day
> AFTER It!
>
> Your lunar sabbath teaching is SCRIPTURALLY FALSE, and also
> HISTORICALLY WRONG!
>
> May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and
> to STOP spreading your HERESY!
>
> In YAHSHUA's Name,
>
> Carlo Tognoni
>
> Group owner and moderator
>
> The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
> www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com <http://www.thecommu nityofyahweh. com/>
>
> ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= =========
> ========= ========= ========= ========= ====
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "YHWHPeople@ aol.com <http://aol.com/>" <YHWHPeople@ aol. com>
> To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com <http://ups.com/>
> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 7:43:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Two Scriptural Studies
> rebutting the lunar sabbath teaching...
>
> To show what extent and how Brother Larry operates in trying to
> disprove Lunar Sabbaths, he uses the count of 50 days to the
> Pentecost, etc. But what Larry don¢t tell is that he counts 50
> days from the 16th of Abib to Pentecost, He does NOT count
> Sabbaths, he just counts 7 sevens and calls them weeks that do not
> end in a Sabbath which is not scriptural.
>
> My point is that a Lunar Sabbath keeper can also count the same
> way as Larry (50 days from wave sheaf) and will keep Pentecost on
> the same day as Larry, yet Larry turns around and says Lunar
> people has no way to reach Pentecost. That should let you know
> what kind of person you are dealing with, that is very deceptive
> to say the least. He makes many fair speeches to try to pull
> people away from the true Sabbath. If anyone reads his book
> closely you will catch on to him.
>
> Brother Arnold
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tesh <teshturner@ yahoo. com>
> To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com <http://ups.com/>
> Sent: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 9:31 am
> Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Two Scriptural Studies
> rebutting the lunar sabbath teaching...
>
> being a lunar keeper..I would like to read this book..however. ..I
> dont see the 4 parts here posted...can you send that to me for
> reading?
>
> The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com
> <http://yahoo. com/>> wrote:
>
> Shalom Everyone!
>
> I would like to lovingly invite you to read the Scriptural
> Studies, "Something Different: Lunar Sabbaths", by Larry and
> June Acheson, that I have posted here (IN 4 PARTS), and "In
> Search of the True Sabbath", by W. Glenn Moore, that I have
> posted here (IN 2 PARTS).
>
> They not only show and give historical references that the
> Jews did not know and keep the Sabbaths to be originally by
> the Moon, but they also TOTALLY DESTROY the lunar sabbath
> teaching, showing Scriptural Seventh Day Sabbaths NOT by the
> Moon, to be in The Scriptures, besides all the other
> UNSCRIPTURAL aspects of the FALSE lunar sabbath teaching, as
> neutral or sabbath new moons, and extended sabbaths at the end
> of each lunar month, with no way to prepare and cook foods for
> two or three days each month, and wrong count of 50 days to
> the Pentecost, etc.
>
> May YAHWEH Bless your Understanding of HIS Will and Word, The
> Truth!
>
> True Love in YAHSHUA,
>
> Carlo Tognoni
>
> Group owner and moderator
>
> The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
> www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com
> <http://www.thecommu nityofyahweh. com/>
>
> ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= =========
> ========= ========= ========= ========= ====
>
>
>
>
>
> Tesh
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail.
> See how.
> <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=51732/ *http://overview .mail.yahoo. com/>
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL
> Mail
> <http://o.aolcdn. com/cdn.webmail. aol.com/mailtour /aol/en-us/ index.htm? ncid=AOLAOF00020 000000970>!
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile.
> Try it now.
> <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=51731/ *http://mobile. yahoo.com/ sports;_ylt= At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G 1SQtBI7ntAcJ>
>
>
>


Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!

 



Check out AOL Money Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (2)
#879 From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@...>
Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:10 am
Subject: Brethren looking for Fellowship and a Place to Worship... 		yahwehcommunity
Send Email Send Email
 
Shalom Everyone!
 
Here below I am including an e-mail received from Brethren looking for Fellowship and a Place to Worship.
 
Feel free to contact them.
 
May YAHWEH Bless you All!
 
True Love in YAHSHUA,
 
your brother Carlo
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
===================================================================================================
 
 
name = Mark and Beverly werda
email = markandbev@...
comments = I've left the sda church a long time ago. My younger brother is an sda minister. I believe in the names of Yahweh and Yahshua and use Them in prayer. I want to start keeping the Feasts. I need Fellowship, a Place to Worship with other like-minded believers. Feel free to give my email address to those with whom you bear witness.
Respectfully, Mark and Bev.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)
#880 From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@...>
Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:15 am
Subject: Fw: EveryWordOfTruth group 		yahwehcommunity
Send Email Send Email
 
Shalom Everyone!
 
I am forwarding you an e-mail received from Glenn Moore, author of the Scriptural Study "In Search of the True Sabbath".
 
May YAHWEH Bless you All!
 
True Love in YAHSHUA,
 
your brother Carlo
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
=================================================================================================


 
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Glenn Moore <glenn_moore44@...>
To: EveryWordOfTruth Moderator <EveryWordOfTruth-owner@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: wayne newton <boofwayne@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 12:10:16 AM
Subject: Re: EveryWordOfTruth group

Shalom Carlo,

Thank you for including me in your study group.  I want you to know that my study on the lunar sabbaths was not given because of any special knowledge or gift on my part--but because I was confronted with a brother in the faith who became a lunar sabbatarian.  I was forced to study this issue out completely so as to give an answer.  And without the help of Larry and June Atchison, it could not have been possible.

If you are interested in studying some presentations areas which I have written about, those articles can be found at:

http://www.ponderscripture.org/articles.html

Subjects which I have posted include the Little Horn of Daniel 7, the Tefillin, the Lunar Sabbaths, and recently a short "news release" concerning my own personal fight with school and public heath officials in Hawaii over
Vaccination and TB test exemptions (based upon my religious beliefs, which are in turn based upon Scripture).

Best Regards,

Glenn Moore







EveryWordOfTruth Moderator <EveryWordOfTruth-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hello,

I've added you to EveryWordOfTruth group at Yahoo! Groups, a free,
easy-to-use service. Yahoo! Groups makes it easy to send and receive
group messages, coordinate events, share photos and files, and more.

My introductory message to you:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shalom!

I would like to Welcome you to The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group!

We have been using your Scriptural Studies in our Scriptural discussions!

May YAHWEH Bless your Understanding of HIS Will and Word, The Truth!

True Love in YAHSHUA,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofyahweh.com

============================================================





Our whole experience and duty can be summed up in Deuteronomy 6:1-9, the focus of which is verse 4 "Hear, O Israel: YHWH our Elohim is one YHWH" and the prophecy of the continued Jewish diaspora found in Revelation 12:17 and 14:12 -- "And the dragon was wroth with the woman [Israel], and went to make war with the remnant of her seed [the remnant of Israel's descendants--including both Ephraim and Judah], which keep the commandments [Mitzvot] of Elohim, and have the testimony of Yahushua Messiah." "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments [Mitzvot, or Charge] of Elohim, and the faith of [Note: not just faith in, but FAITH OF] Yahushua."

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com



Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)
#881 From: Tracy Norton <tracy6005@...>
Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:36 am
Subject: In Support of Crescent Observers 		tracy6005
Send Email Send Email
 
Shalum Alechem,

I have been busy catching up on my reading in this forum and I came across some of you who believe that crescent observers are following a pagan tradition.  Although I applaud you all for exposing the heresy in lunar sabbaths teachings, yet I fail to see how I myself, Messianic Believers, Sacred-Namers, as well as the nation of Yishrael somehow "lost" our way into marking the first day of the month with the first visible sighting of the lunar crescent (waxing). 

Some things I have discovered: 

  1. Early muslims did not include the crescent as their symbol of identity
  2. Some muslims today (like Saudi Arabia) do not include the crescent as their identity as noted in their flags.
  3. Nearly ALL muslims cresents display a waning crescent in the flags; yet Yishrael observe a waxing cresent
I believe that the Scripture is clear that the moon serve as a sign to help us mark time (in this case months).  Well in order to be a sign, you have to "see" her. 

Shalum,

Tracy
Colorado Springs, Colorado


Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (16)
#882 From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@...>
Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:40 am
Subject: Re: Two Scriptural Studies rebutting the lunar s... 		yahwehcommunity
Send Email Send Email
 
Shalom Larry!
 
Thank you very much for your very kind Message!
 
I have invited and welcome you to our Groups, to give you the opportunity to defend yourself, in case you would like to do it, since I have posted here your Scriptural Study "Something Different: Lunar Sabbaths".
 
But I fully understand your decision to do not partake to the Discussion with the lunar sabbatarians, especially after your previous experiences with them.
 
About your count to Pentecost, even if I believe that is erroneous, surely I do NOT believe that you cannot have YAHWEH's Set Apart Spirit for that reason, as the man who once told you that...
 
Anyway, I will read your Scriptural Study, and be sure that I will apologize to have said that your count to Pentecost is wrong, if The Scriptures will show your Study to be right, or I will confirm my  first judgment, if it will result Scripturally wrong (Yahchanan / John 7:24; Acts 17:10-11; 1 Thessalonians 5:21; 1 Yahchanan / John 4:1). 
 
May YAHWEH Bless you, an your wife June, and All your family!
 
True Love in YAHSHUA,
 
your brother Carlo
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
================================================================================================= 
 
 


 
----- Original Message ----
From: "Seekutruth@..." <Seekutruth@...>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 2:18:41 PM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Two Scriptural Studies rebutting the lunar s...

Shalom to all:
 
Greetings in the name of Yahweh through His Son Yeshua the Messiah!
 
Carlo, I would like to thank you for adding me to the distribution list for this discussion.  I hope you understand why I'm not really interested in participating, at least not at this time.  I spent over three years in what I feel was a fruitless forum discussion with lunar sabbatarians, and quite frankly, I do not expect this discussion to be any different. 
 
When I first became acquainted with lunar sabbatarians, I really didn't feel any animosity towards them, and I still believe that we should do our best to treat everyone with respect, even those with whom we are in sharp disagreement.  I have never condemned anyone, nor do I plan on ever doing such a thing.  Yahweh, through His Son Yeshua, will judge us all, and I don't believe they need any help from me.  I am merely a truth seeker on a journey, hopefully to His Kingdom, Yahweh willing.  I don't claim to have the truth, but I'm doing the best I can with the resources that Yahweh has given me to work with.  Living a life that is pleasing and honorable to Yahweh is my primary goal.  I try to presume that everyone I meet has that same basic goal, and only when I sense otherwise do I react in what some might consider an undesirable manner.  Ultimately, when I find myself in the presence of anyone that I do not believe shares my goal, I try to remove myself from their presence. 
 
It took me three years, but I finally removed myself from the presence of lunar sabbatarians in the "True Sabbath" forum at EliYah's Forums.  I believe I should have bowed out long before I did.  I was recently informed that the forum owner, aware of the unfruitful proceedings in that forum discussion, locked everyone out of it.  I can only wonder why he waited so long to do this.
 
Suffice it to say that my relationship with lunar sabbatarians did not improve as a result of participating in that forum.  Rather, it deteriorated.  Judging by the tone of the current discussion, nothing seems to have changed, including my desire to become involved in exchanges with lunar sabbatarians.  Based upon previous experience, I know that any exchanges I have with them will be counter-productive. 
 
You may be aware that, as time allows, June and I are working on a revision of our original study.  As a "work in progress," each new chapter is updated on our web site as it is completed, with a separate link created for each one.  Currently, we've only completed the first six chapters.  With a total of over 30 chapters in the study, it will be quite some time before our revision is completed.  Nevertheless, I am persuaded that the first six chapters, in and of themselves, completely disprove the doctrine of lunar sabbaths.  Here is a link to the introduction of that study, and the links for the individual chapters are found at the end of the introduction:
 
 
Again, I do appreciate the kind invitation to participate in this discussion.  Some will interpret my decision to not join as a fear of being proven wrong, etc.  It wouldn't be the first time such conclusions have been drawn, and I'm sure it wouldn't be the last.  Nevertheless, suffice it to say that I have other priorities in my life right now, and I believe the evidence we present in our study speaks for itself. 
 
By the way, regarding the count to Pentecost, June and I have written a study on this topic, which may be read by accessing the following link.  I am thankful to report that a man who once told me we cannot have Yahweh's Spirit if we count to Pentecost the way we do apologized after he read our study. 
 
 
Take care and may Yahweh bless!
 
Love in Messiah,
Larry Acheson
 
In a message dated 11/21/2007 2:32:08 P.M. Central Standard Time, yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com writes:

Arnold,
 
IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!
 
Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the Pentecost from the 12th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.
 
Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 12th Day of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the week!
 
You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!
 
May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to STOP your HERESY!
 
In YAHSHUA's Name,
 
Carlo Tognoni
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====
 

 

 



----- Original Message ----
From: "YHWHPeople@ aol.com" <YHWHPeople@aol. com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:28:49 AM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Two Scriptural Studies rebutting the lunar sabbath teaching...

ACarlo wrote,
 
“It's pathetic and ridiculous that you can even claim that lunar
> sabbatarians can count in the SAME way that Larry and June Acheson
> make their count to Pentecost, AFTER you said that is WRONG!
>
> And, ANYWAY, even if you do it so, your count would NOT end on
> their SAME Day, but 2 or 3 Days BEFORE it!
>
> The SCRIPTURAL Count to Pentecost begins AFTER a Seventh Day”
 
RESPONSE;I agree that the scriptural Pentecost begins after a seventh day/15 but you are wrong when you say that lunar sabbatarians can not count in the SAME way that Larry and June Acheson because they begin their count on the 16th of the first month and simply count 50 days with no respect to Sabbaths.  Please tell me why a lunar Sabbath person cannot do the same thing.  Remember Larry just counts 50 consecutive days.  We could do the same thing and just 50 consecutive days. The new Moon days and Sabbaths would be counted in the 50 consecutive days same as Larry’s. So your statement is wrong again, and I stand by my statement that Larry is being deceitful because Lunar Sabbath people can count to Pentecost the same way as he does and come out on the SAME day.
 
 
Brother Arnold



-----Original Message-----
From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 12:39 pm
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Two Scriptural Studies rebutting the lunar sabbath teaching...

Shalom Jeremiah!
 
Thank you very much for your kind message!
 
I am Very Glad that you have appreciate my explanation. Praise YAHWEH!!!
 
Yes, as you rightly said, the sign of Islam is the crescent moon, and the moon worship is a very old practice.
 
May YAHWEH Bless you and yours!
 
True Love in YAHSHUA,
 
your brother Carlo
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====


 
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark A. Fredrick <mrsf@execpc. com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 7:57:48 AM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Two Scriptural Studies rebutting the lunar sabbath teaching...

Thank you for your explanation. It is very clear. The sign of Islam is
the crescent moon. This moon worship goes back at least to the time of
Abram.
Jeremiah

The Community of YAHWEH wrote:

> Shalom Wayne!
>
> Many Thanks for your kind message, sharing your doubts, and asking
> questions, and help in clarify this Important Subject!
>
> I appreciate very much your humility, sincerity, and honesty in saying
> that you may be wrong and you are a lot of the time.
>
> To my current Scriptural knowledge and understanding (but I may be
> wrong too, as I have been a lot of time too), my answers to your
> questions are:
>
> 1- The Scriptural Day and The Scriptural Sabbath is the 12 Hours of
> Light Time, beginning at DAWN (with visible Sign in the Sky at
> SUNRISE), and ending at DUSK (with visible Sign in the Sky at SUNSET),
> and after that the Night comes, that is the Darkness Time, from Dark
> to Dawn.
>
> 2- The Scriptural Daily Cycle, from a Day to the Next Day, runs for 24
> Hours, from DAWN to DAWN.
>
> 3- The Scriptural Month begins at the Conjunction of the Moon with the
> Sun, and runs for 30 Days, from a Conjuction to the Next Conjunction.
>
> 4- The Scriptural Count to The Pentecost begins the Day after the
> Seventh Day Sabbath when the Wave Sheaf is Offered, when the Barley
> Harvest is Ripen (usually a couple of weeks after the Days of
> Unleavened Bread), and ends the Day after the Seventh Sabbath, that
> is, 50 Days later.
>
> 5- The Sabbath, generally speaking, has to be properly Keep as a Day
> of Rest, to be Set Apart to YAHWEH, with a Set Apart Convocation, and
> no work on It. Just as YAHSHUA clearly showed, to help others,
> especially in emergency cases, is permissible also on The Sabbath.
>
> May YAHWEH Bless you and yours!
>
> True Love in YAHSHUA,
>
> Carlo Tognoni
>
> Group owner and moderator
>
> The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
> www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com <http://www.thecommu nityofyahweh. com>
>
> ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: wayne newton <boofwayne@yahoo. com>
> To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 9:26:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Two Scriptural Studies
> rebutting the lunar sabbath teaching...
>
> Shalom to all,
>
> Forgive me, I am confused. So do we use a lunar count or a solar? I
> may be wrong and am alot of the time, I thought the new day starts at
> sundown and that the luner is what we are to use. Please teach me
> this. And also, how do we properly keep Shabbat? I so would love
> someone to clear this up for me. Yeshua bless youall
>
> The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com
> <http://yahoo. com/>> wrote:
>
> Arnold,
>
> actually you are deceptive to say the least, since your tactic is
> to move the attention to another subject, and to another person!
>
> In no way, Arnold, since the subject is LUNAR SABBATH TEACHING,
> and the person who is spreading it is YOU, and NOT Larry and June
> Acheson, and how they make their count to the Pentecost!
>
> YOUR count to the Pentecost is WRONG, and YOUR lunar sabbath
> teching is FALSE, as Larry and June Acheson clearly showed it in
> their Scriptural Study!
>
> It doesn't matter if their count to Pentecost is ERRONEOUS too,
> just as their sunset / dark to sunset / dark day, just as YOUR is!
>
> It's pathetic and ridiculous that you can even claim that lunar
> sabbatarians can count in the SAME way that Larry and June Acheson
> make their count to Pentecost, AFTER you said that is WRONG!
>
> And, ANYWAY, even if you do it so, your count would NOT end on
> their SAME Day, but 2 or 3 Days BEFORE it!
>
> The SCRIPTURAL Count to Pentecost begins AFTER a Seventh Day
> Sabbath, when the Wave Sheaf is Offered, just after the Barley
> Harvest is Reapen (AFTER, AND NOT DURING THE DAYS OF UNLEAVENED
> BREAD), and the Count of the "Omer" ends the Day AFTER the Seventh
> Sabbath is complete, 50 Day after, just as The Scriptures teach in
> Leviticus Chapter 23!
>
> YOU DON'T!!! Your count to Pentecost is TOTALLY WRONG, because of
> YOUR FALSE lunar sabbath teaching!
>
> You do NOT count your WRONG "extended sabbaths" at the end of your
> lunar month, but, instead, you count the other sabbaths, trying
> to adjust 50 Days!
>
> Really your count to your so-called "pentecost" is 52 or 53 Day
> long, CONTRARY TO THE SCRIPTURES that clearly teach 50 Days!
>
> And if you actually would count 50 Days from the day after a
> Seventh Day Sabbath, then your count would end on a Fifth or Sixth
> Day of the Week, because of your 2 or 3 "extended sabbaths", and
> NOT on the Day AFTER the Seventh Sabbath, as The Scriptures
> clearly teach!
>
> And if you count your 2 or 3 "extended sabbaths" at the end of
> your lunar month, as "sabbaths", then seven sabbaths are already
> passed after 36 or 43 Days, CONTRARY TO THE SCRIPTURES that
> clearly teach 50 Days need for Seven Sabbaths to pass, and the Day
> AFTER It!
>
> Your lunar sabbath teaching is SCRIPTURALLY FALSE, and also
> HISTORICALLY WRONG!
>
> May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and
> to STOP spreading your HERESY!
>
> In YAHSHUA's Name,
>
> Carlo Tognoni
>
> Group owner and moderator
>
> The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
> www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com <http://www.thecommu nityofyahweh. com/>
>
> ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= =========
> ========= ========= ========= ========= ====
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "YHWHPeople@ aol.com <http://aol.com/>" <YHWHPeople@ aol. com>
> To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com <http://ups.com/>
> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 7:43:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Two Scriptural Studies
> rebutting the lunar sabbath teaching...
>
> To show what extent and how Brother Larry operates in trying to
> disprove Lunar Sabbaths, he uses the count of 50 days to the
> Pentecost, etc. But what Larry don¢t tell is that he counts 50
> days from the 16th of Abib to Pentecost, He does NOT count
> Sabbaths, he just counts 7 sevens and calls them weeks that do not
> end in a Sabbath which is not scriptural.
>
> My point is that a Lunar Sabbath keeper can also count the same
> way as Larry (50 days from wave sheaf) and will keep Pentecost on
> the same day as Larry, yet Larry turns around and says Lunar
> people has no way to reach Pentecost. That should let you know
> what kind of person you are dealing with, that is very deceptive
> to say the least. He makes many fair speeches to try to pull
> people away from the true Sabbath. If anyone reads his book
> closely you will catch on to him.
>
> Brother Arnold
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tesh <teshturner@ yahoo. com>
> To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com <http://ups.com/>
> Sent: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 9:31 am
> Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Two Scriptural Studies
> rebutting the lunar sabbath teaching...
>
> being a lunar keeper..I would like to read this book..however. ..I
> dont see the 4 parts here posted...can you send that to me for
> reading?
>
> The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com
> <http://yahoo. com/>> wrote:
>
> Shalom Everyone!
>
> I would like to lovingly invite you to read the Scriptural
> Studies, "Something Different: Lunar Sabbaths", by Larry and
> June Acheson, that I have posted here (IN 4 PARTS), and "In
> Search of the True Sabbath", by W. Glenn Moore, that I have
> posted here (IN 2 PARTS).
>
> They not only show and give historical references that the
> Jews did not know and keep the Sabbaths to be originally by
> the Moon, but they also TOTALLY DESTROY the lunar sabbath
> teaching, showing Scriptural Seventh Day Sabbaths NOT by the
> Moon, to be in The Scriptures, besides all the other
> UNSCRIPTURAL aspects of the FALSE lunar sabbath teaching, as
> neutral or sabbath new moons, and extended sabbaths at the end
> of each lunar month, with no way to prepare and cook foods for
> two or three days each month, and wrong count of 50 days to
> the Pentecost, etc.
>
> May YAHWEH Bless your Understanding of HIS Will and Word, The
> Truth!
>
> True Love in YAHSHUA,
>
> Carlo Tognoni
>
> Group owner and moderator
>
> The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
> www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com
> <http://www.thecommu nityofyahweh. com/>
>
> ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= =========
> ========= ========= ========= ========= ====
>
>
>
>
>
> Tesh
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail.
> See how.
> <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=51732/ *http://overview .mail.yahoo. com/>
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL
> Mail
> <http://o.aolcdn. com/cdn.webmail. aol.com/mailtour /aol/en-us/ index.htm? ncid=AOLAOF00020 000000970>!
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile.
> Try it now.
> <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=51731/ *http://mobile. yahoo.com/ sports;_ylt= At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G 1SQtBI7ntAcJ>
>
>
>


Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!

 



Check out AOL Money Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.


Reply | Messages in this Topic (2)
#883 From: "The Community of YAHWEH" <yahwehcommunity@...>
Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:26 am
Subject: Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'? 		yahwehcommunity
Send Email Send Email
  
Larry,

WHY did you change TWICE the text of my message, from '16th Day'
to '12th Day'???

In my message, included here bwlow (that can be read at Message # 877
in the Group's Message Archive), I wrote TWICE 'the 16th Day':

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 16th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 16th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofyahweh.com

======================================================================



In Larry's reply (that can be read at Message # 878 in the Group's
Message Archive), my message, included after your reply, instead,
reads TWICE 'the 12th Day':

----------------------------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 11/21/2007 2:32:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
yahwehcommunity@... writes:

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 12th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 12th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofyahweh.com

======================================================================



Larry, I really wonder WHY did you change the text of my message???

Waiting for your prompt reply and explanation.

Carlo Tognoni

Group owner and moderator

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofyahweh.com

======================================================================

Reply | Messages in this Topic (9)
#884 From: Seekutruth@...
Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:01 am
Subject: Re: Larry, WHY did you change the text of my mes... 		Seekutruth@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Shalom, Carlo,
 
You ask why I twice changed the text of your message from "16th Day" to "12th Day."  When I initially read your question, I thought, "Here we go again with the false accusations," because I would never knowingly or intentionally change the text of anyone's message.  Nevertheless, I went to my "Sent" e-mails to see if I could find what you were referring to, and indeed, the "16th" had been changed to the "12th."  It took me a few minutes to figure out what happened, but I finally determined the cause of the problem by duplicating the steps I followed when responding to your e-mail.  I ask for your patience in reading my explanation.  I am also including a screen shot, which I hope will adequately serve as a visual aid to illustrate what happened.
 
Here, then, is my explanation:  I use the "spell-check" whenever I send e-mails because I've been known to misspell a word or two, and I try not to impose my spelling errors on my reading audience.  As a part of AOL's "Spelling and Grammar Checker," for reasons completely unknown to me, its database recognized "16th" as a spelling error.  The "suggested replacement," by default, is "12th."  I have no idea why it didn't recognize the 16th.  I have since added "16th" to the database as a legitimately-spelled word, so this should not happen again.
 
To further explain what transpired, when the "Spelling and Grammar Checker" displayed "16th" as a spelling error, I had the choice of clicking "Skip All" or "Replace All."  I certainly intended to click the "Skip All" option, but for whatever reason, I clicked on "Replace All" instead.  I did not mean to replace any of the text in your e-mail, but as we all now know, that is what happened.  Of course, I would have had no reason whatsoever to have wanted your text to read "12th" instead of "16th," so I trust you understand that this was a case of unintentional "user error" and not a case of trying to subvert or otherwise misrepresent anything you wrote.
 
Just in case the screen shot I'm providing below doesn't transmit to you, I'm also sending an attachment to more clearly illustrate how my "Spelling Checker" recognized "16th" as a spelling error.  I apologize for not being more alert, in which case I definitely would have clicked on "Skip All."
 
 
Take care and may Yahweh bless!
 
Love in Messiah,
Larry
 
In a message dated 11/24/2007 1:26:47 A.M. Central Standard Time, yahwehcommunity@... writes:

Larry,

WHY did you change TWICE the text of my message, from '16th Day'
to '12th Day'???

In my message, included here bwlow (that can be read at Message # 877
in the Group's Message Archive), I wrote TWICE 'the 16th Day':

----------------------------------------------------------

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 16th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 16th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofyahweh.com

======================================================================

In Larry's reply (that can be read at Message # 878 in the Group's
Message Archive), my message, included after your reply, instead,
reads TWICE 'the 12th Day':

----------------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 11/21/2007 2:32:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
yahwehcommunity@yahoo.com writes:

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 12th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 12th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofyahweh.com

======================================================================

Larry, I really wonder WHY did you change the text of my message???

Waiting for your prompt reply and explanation.

Carlo Tognoni

Group owner and moderator

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofyahweh.com

======================================================================

 



Check out AOL Money Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (5)
#885 From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@...>
Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:50 pm
Subject: Re: Larry, WHY did you change the text of my mes... 		yahwehcommunity
Send Email Send Email
 
Shabbath Shalom Larry!
 
I have appreciated very much your prompt explanation.
 
I would kindly suggest you to use the "AOL spelling and grammar checker" ONLY for your messages, and NOT for other people's messages, SKIPPING it, so avoiding to change and alter the text of other people's messages, no matter if their spelling and grammar is right or wrong.
 
Also, I see that AOL system gives suggestions, and the "12th" was one of the suggestions, and not the substitution for the "16th". In fact, on the list of suggestions, there is also "16 th" (two words), that, even if it would be a wrong spelling and grammar error (I really wonder on the quality of such AOL system), it was surely better than "12th".
 
Anyway, such episode should teach everyone of us that is very easy to have misunderstanding, and we should be very careful and alert to avoid it, being always better to clarify immediately anything, to do not create further misunderstanding, that could lead to dissentions, and prejudices.
 
By the way, as person directed involved, and also as Group owner and moderator, I have purposely posted your "mistake", so that you, Larry, could promptly show your explanation for it, just as you have done, before someone else (i.e., Arnold Bowen, for example) could note it, and say that you were "deceitful" (as he already said before...), so supporting his dissentions, and prejudices against you.
 
May YAHWEH Bless you and yours!
 
True Love in YAHSHUA,
 
your brother Carlo
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
=================================================================================================
 
 


 
----- Original Message ----
From: "Seekutruth@..." <Seekutruth@...>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 9:01:25 AM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my mes...

Shalom, Carlo,
 
You ask why I twice changed the text of your message from "16th Day" to "12th Day."  When I initially read your question, I thought, "Here we go again with the false accusations," because I would never knowingly or intentionally change the text of anyone's message.  Nevertheless, I went to my "Sent" e-mails to see if I could find what you were referring to, and indeed, the "16th" had been changed to the "12th."  It took me a few minutes to figure out what happened, but I finally determined the cause of the problem by duplicating the steps I followed when responding to your e-mail.  I ask for your patience in reading my explanation.  I am also including a screen shot, which I hope will adequately serve as a visual aid to illustrate what happened.
 
Here, then, is my explanation:  I use the "spell-check" whenever I send e-mails because I've been known to misspell a word or two, and I try not to impose my spelling errors on my reading audience.  As a part of AOL's "Spelling and Grammar Checker," for reasons completely unknown to me, its database recognized "16th" as a spelling error.  The "suggested replacement," by default, is "12th."  I have no idea why it didn't recognize the 16th.  I have since added "16th" to the database as a legitimately-spelled word, so this should not happen again.
 
To further explain what transpired, when the "Spelling and Grammar Checker" displayed "16th" as a spelling error, I had the choice of clicking "Skip All" or "Replace All."  I certainly intended to click the "Skip All" option, but for whatever reason, I clicked on "Replace All" instead.  I did not mean to replace any of the text in your e-mail, but as we all now know, that is what happened.  Of course, I would have had no reason whatsoever to have wanted your text to read "12th" instead of "16th," so I trust you understand that this was a case of unintentional "user error" and not a case of trying to subvert or otherwise misrepresent anything you wrote.
 
Just in case the screen shot I'm providing below doesn't transmit to you, I'm also sending an attachment to more clearly illustrate how my "Spelling Checker" recognized "16th" as a spelling error.  I apologize for not being more alert, in which case I definitely would have clicked on "Skip All."
 
 
Take care and may Yahweh bless!
 
Love in Messiah,
Larry
 
In a message dated 11/24/2007 1:26:47 A.M. Central Standard Time, yahwehcommunity@... writes:

Larry,

WHY did you change TWICE the text of my message, from '16th Day'
to '12th Day'???

In my message, included here bwlow (that can be read at Message # 877
in the Group's Message Archive), I wrote TWICE 'the 16th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 16th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 16th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

In Larry's reply (that can be read at Message # 878 in the Group's
Message Archive), my message, included after your reply, instead,
reads TWICE 'the 12th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

In a message dated 11/21/2007 2:32:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com writes:

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 12th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 12th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Larry, I really wonder WHY did you change the text of my message???

Waiting for your prompt reply and explanation.

Carlo Tognoni

Group owner and moderator

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

 



Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.


Reply | Messages in this Topic (5)
#886 From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@...>
Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:30 pm
Subject: Re: Larry, WHY did you change the text of my mes... 		yahwehcommunity
Send Email Send Email
 
Shabbath Shalom again Larry,
 
let me play a little bit here... maybe the reason why "AOL Spelling and Grammar Checker" shows the "16th" as an "error", is because it is an "errouneous" count to Pentecost... :-))
 
By the way, seriously speaking, I have read your Scriptural Study on the count to Pentecost, and, even if I respect your point of view, and I understand the reasons that lead you to such conclusion, I confirm it to be Scripturally wrong, simply because the count to Pentecost does NOT begin during the Day of Unleavened (Bread), so that also the other side (that count from the Seventh Day Sabbath during the Day of Unleavened Bread) is wrong too.
 
And since the count to Pentecost begins AFTER the Days of Unleavened (Bread), when the Barley Harvest is ready to be ripen (usually a couple of weeks after Passover, that is, towards the end of the month of Avib, when the Barley is not more Green, but Gold / Brown to be ripen), it could be not begin, nor end on any Day of the Week other than the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, as The Scriptures clearly show in Leviticus Chapter 23.
 
Where would The Scriptures say that the count to Pentecost began during the Days of Unleavened (Bread)? NOWHERE!
 
Both the Pharisees and the Sadducees position were wrong on such Scriptural Issue (as also in several other Scriptural Issues), being only "traditions of men", "don't knowing The Scriptures" (as YAHSHUA told BOTH of them several times!), while YAHSHUA and His Disciples (together with some other small Groups / Sects among the Jews) were Right!   
 
As you said, in your Scriptural Study, YAHWEH could have straightly said that, but evidently if HE choose to Inspire it in that way on HIS Word, The Scriptures, it was because only HIS True Called, Chosen, Elect People could Understand it PROPERLY, just as HE did for other Scriptural Issues related to HIS Sabbaths and Feast Days, that are SIGNS, MARKS between HIM and HIS True People (Exodus 31:12-18)!
 
Any wonder that the biggest controversies are just on YAHWEH's Sabbaths and Feast Days, on WHEN The Seventh Day Sabbath, and The Passover, and The Pentecost, and The New Moon (that sets YAHWEH's Feasts) are?
  
May YAHWEH Bless you and yours!
 
True Love in YAHSHUA,
 
your brother Carlo
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
==================================================================================================
 
 


 
----- Original Message ----
From: "Seekutruth@..." <Seekutruth@...>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 9:01:25 AM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my mes...

Shalom, Carlo,
 
You ask why I twice changed the text of your message from "16th Day" to "12th Day."  When I initially read your question, I thought, "Here we go again with the false accusations," because I would never knowingly or intentionally change the text of anyone's message.  Nevertheless, I went to my "Sent" e-mails to see if I could find what you were referring to, and indeed, the "16th" had been changed to the "12th."  It took me a few minutes to figure out what happened, but I finally determined the cause of the problem by duplicating the steps I followed when responding to your e-mail.  I ask for your patience in reading my explanation.  I am also including a screen shot, which I hope will adequately serve as a visual aid to illustrate what happened.
 
Here, then, is my explanation:  I use the "spell-check" whenever I send e-mails because I've been known to misspell a word or two, and I try not to impose my spelling errors on my reading audience.  As a part of AOL's "Spelling and Grammar Checker," for reasons completely unknown to me, its database recognized "16th" as a spelling error.  The "suggested replacement," by default, is "12th."  I have no idea why it didn't recognize the 16th.  I have since added "16th" to the database as a legitimately-spelled word, so this should not happen again.
 
To further explain what transpired, when the "Spelling and Grammar Checker" displayed "16th" as a spelling error, I had the choice of clicking "Skip All" or "Replace All."  I certainly intended to click the "Skip All" option, but for whatever reason, I clicked on "Replace All" instead.  I did not mean to replace any of the text in your e-mail, but as we all now know, that is what happened.  Of course, I would have had no reason whatsoever to have wanted your text to read "12th" instead of "16th," so I trust you understand that this was a case of unintentional "user error" and not a case of trying to subvert or otherwise misrepresent anything you wrote.
 
Just in case the screen shot I'm providing below doesn't transmit to you, I'm also sending an attachment to more clearly illustrate how my "Spelling Checker" recognized "16th" as a spelling error.  I apologize for not being more alert, in which case I definitely would have clicked on "Skip All."
 
 
Take care and may Yahweh bless!
 
Love in Messiah,
Larry
 
In a message dated 11/24/2007 1:26:47 A.M. Central Standard Time, yahwehcommunity@... writes:

Larry,

WHY did you change TWICE the text of my message, from '16th Day'
to '12th Day'???

In my message, included here bwlow (that can be read at Message # 877
in the Group's Message Archive), I wrote TWICE 'the 16th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 16th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 16th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

In Larry's reply (that can be read at Message # 878 in the Group's
Message Archive), my message, included after your reply, instead,
reads TWICE 'the 12th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

In a message dated 11/21/2007 2:32:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com writes:

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 12th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 12th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Larry, I really wonder WHY did you change the text of my message???

Waiting for your prompt reply and explanation.

Carlo Tognoni

Group owner and moderator

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

 



Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.


Reply | Messages in this Topic (5)
#887 From: Glenn Moore <glenn_moore44@...>
Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:40 pm
Subject: Re: Larry, WHY did you change the text of my mes... 		glenn_moore44@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Shabbat Shalom Carlo,

I know that you have other matters which you are discussing in your forum (such as count to Pentecost, true Sabbaths, etc.) but I thought I would begin a new topic.  You know, we believe in the Messiah and that He came in fulfilment of Bible prophecy to be the redeemer of mankind.  I am in the process of writing a study regarding the most significant prophecy which points to the coming Messiah (Daniel 9).  I believe that the evidence of Scripture, history, and chronology confirm that the Messiah truly did come and that He came EXACTLY on time to fulfil all the prophecies pointing to Him (Yeshua) as the Saviour of not only the Jewish people but of all mankind (who accept His offer of salvation).

While I am not prepared at this moment to publish this study (it is very long, over 150 pages, and needs further editing), I have posted part of it--an appendix which explains the Adventist dilemma regarding 1844 and the fulfilment of Daniel 8.  Since we are in the season of Hanakkah, it is only fitting that we retrace the history of that significant event in Jewish history (the "abomination of desolation") and show how such an event fulfilled the prophecy of Daniel 8:14.  Of course, this also shows that the Adventist position (which places the 2300 days as 2300 years leading to 1844) is clearly in error.

If there is any response or discussion regarding this, I am only eager to hear from others regarding this issue.

The link to the study is given here: 

http://www.ponderscripture.org/articles.html

or more directly

http://www.ponderscripture.org/PDF%20Files/1844%20Dilemma.pdf

I hope that this will give us something upon which we can all identify with and rally around.  In the future, I may post some of my research regarding the timing of the Messiah's first coming--as it contains some very compelling evidence that He was indeed the promised Messiah!

Sincerely,

Glenn Moore




Our whole experience and duty can be summed up in Deuteronomy 6:1-9, the focus of which is verse 4 "Hear, O Israel: YHWH our Elohim is one YHWH" and the prophecy of the continued Jewish diaspora found in Revelation 12:17 and 14:12 -- "And the dragon was wroth with the woman [Israel], and went to make war with the remnant of her seed [the remnant of Israel's descendants--including both Ephraim and Judah], which keep the commandments [Mitzvot] of Elohim, and have the testimony of Yahushua Messiah." "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments [Mitzvot, or Charge] of Elohim, and the faith of [Note: not just faith in, but FAITH OF] Yahushua."

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com


Reply | Messages in this Topic (5)
#888 From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@...>
Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:19 pm
Subject: Re: Larry, WHY did you change the text of my mes... 		yahwehcommunity
Send Email Send Email
 
Shabbath Shalom Glenn!
 
Thank you very much for sharing the appendix of your Scriptural Study on The Timing of The First Coming of The MESSIYAH.
 
I would kindly ask you to post it also on "Every Word of Truth" Group (EveryWordOfTruth@yahoogroups.com), being more appropriate there as Subject, being NOT directly related to Sabbaths and New Moons, that this Group is specifically for.
 
May YAHWEH Bless you and yours!
 
True Love in YAHSHUA,
 
your brother Carlo
 
Group owner and moderator
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
=================================================================================================

 
 
----- Original Message ----
From: Glenn Moore <glenn_moore44@...>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 12:40:06 PM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my mes...

Shabbat Shalom Carlo,

I know that you have other matters which you are discussing in your forum (such as count to Pentecost, true Sabbaths, etc.) but I thought I would begin a new topic.  You know, we believe in the Messiah and that He came in fulfilment of Bible prophecy to be the redeemer of mankind.  I am in the process of writing a study regarding the most significant prophecy which points to the coming Messiah (Daniel 9).  I believe that the evidence of Scripture, history, and chronology confirm that the Messiah truly did come and that He came EXACTLY on time to fulfil all the prophecies pointing to Him (Yeshua) as the Saviour of not only the Jewish people but of all mankind (who accept His offer of salvation).

While I am not prepared at this moment to publish this study (it is very long, over 150 pages, and needs further editing), I have posted part of it--an appendix which explains the Adventist dilemma regarding 1844 and the fulfilment of Daniel 8.  Since we are in the season of Hanakkah, it is only fitting that we retrace the history of that significant event in Jewish history (the "abomination of desolation") and show how such an event fulfilled the prophecy of Daniel 8:14.  Of course, this also shows that the Adventist position (which places the 2300 days as 2300 years leading to 1844) is clearly in error.

If there is any response or discussion regarding this, I am only eager to hear from others regarding this issue.

The link to the study is given here: 

http://www.pondersc ripture.org/ articles. html

or more directly

http://www.pondersc ripture.org/ PDF%20Files/ 1844%20Dilemma. pdf

I hope that this will give us something upon which we can all identify with and rally around.  In the future, I may post some of my research regarding the timing of the Messiah's first coming--as it contains some very compelling evidence that He was indeed the promised Messiah!

Sincerely,

Glenn Moore




Our whole experience and duty can be summed up in Deuteronomy 6:1-9, the focus of which is verse 4 "Hear, O Israel: YHWH our Elohim is one YHWH" and the prophecy of the continued Jewish diaspora found in Revelation 12:17 and 14:12 -- "And the dragon was wroth with the woman [Israel], and went to make war with the remnant of her seed [the remnant of Israel's descendants- -including both Ephraim and Judah], which keep the commandments [Mitzvot] of Elohim, and have the testimony of Yahushua Messiah." "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments [Mitzvot, or Charge] of Elohim, and the faith of [Note: not just faith in, but FAITH OF] Yahushua."

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger .yahoo.com



Reply | Messages in this Topic (5)
#889 From: YHWHPeople@...
Date: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:45 pm
Subject: Re: Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'? 		YHWHPeople@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Again, what is the differance between Larry and a lunar sabbath keeper or anybody if they count 50 days from the 16th they will be on the same day.

Remember Larry DON'T count 7 Sabbaths, he counts days period. Ask him and he will tell you I am right and he count days not sabaths and anyone can do the same even lunar Sabbath keepers. I dont see why you cant see this simple FACT. ASK LARRY.

I forgot how to get to your web site to see what he wrote.

Brother Arnold


-----Original Message-----
From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@...>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 2:26 am
Subject: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Larry,

WHY did you change TWICE the text of my message, from '16th Day'
to '12th Day'???

In my message, included here bwlow (that can be read at Message # 877
in the Group's Message Archive), I wrote TWICE 'the 16th Day':

----------------------------------------------------------

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 16th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 16th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofyahweh.com

======================================================================

In Larry's reply (that can be read at Message # 878 in the Group's
Message Archive), my message, included after your reply, instead,
reads TWICE 'the 12th Day':

----------------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 11/21/2007 2:32:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
yahwehcommunity@yahoo.com writes:

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 12th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 12th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofyahweh.com

======================================================================

Larry, I really wonder WHY did you change the text of my message???

Waiting for your prompt reply and explanation.

Carlo Tognoni

Group owner and moderator

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofyahweh.com

======================================================================

Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!

Reply | Messages in this Topic (9)
#892 From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@...>
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:36 am
Subject: Re: Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'? 		yahwehcommunity
Send Email Send Email
 
Arnold,
 
I guess I am not able to explain it clearly (you know, English is NOT my mother tongue, that is ITALIAN...), or you are not able, or you do not want to understand it.
 
Even a little child would understand that 50 days after the SAME day would TIMELY end on the SAME day, but, OF COURSE, that is NOT the point in discussion!
 
Let me try to explain it in another way...

 

Larry counts from the 16th, and he counts seven Weeks of 7 Days Each (that is, 49 Days), giving the meaning of 'Weeks' to the word 'Sabbaths' to count, and, on the 50 Day, his count ends on the SAME Day of the Week of when his count began, usually after Seven Sabbaths are passed (with a "strange" case, Proving that counting in such way is Scripturally erroneous, if the 16th falls on a Seventh Day Sabbath, in which the count ends on a Seventh Day Sabbath, that should be "the Day after the Seven Sabbath", with EIGHT Sabbaths passed?!?).
 
Instead, you, lunar sabbatarians, if you count 50 days from the 16th (that, for you, is ALWAYS on the first day of the week), you timely (OF COURSE!) end on the same day that Larry's count ends, but, for you, it is NOT the SAME Day of the Week that you have begun your count, and NINE sabbaths are passed (including your "extended sabbaths" at the end of your lunar month, since they are counted in such count of 50 days, otherwise, if you skip your "extended sabbaths", you can have seven "regular" sabbaths, but your count would end 2 or 3 days later)!?!
 
Instead, The Scriptures CLEARLY say that the count to Pentecost BEGINS on the Day After the Sabbath, and it ENDS on the Day After the Seventh Sabbath, 50 Days later, so that the count has to BEGIN and END on the SAME Day of the Week, AFTER Seven Sabbaths, NO MATTER WHAT!
 
So that the count of the lunar sabbatarians, ANYWAY, even using Larry's method, and TIMELY ending on the SAME day, is WRONG, because falling in a DIFFERENT day of the week than when it began, and after NINE sabbaths!
 
IS THAT FINALLY CLEAR??? I hope so....
 
 
About how to geto to our web site, to see what Larry wrote, if you mean the web site of The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group (since his Scriptural Study is NOT yet on the web site of The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA), you can go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons/ , and then click on "Messages" on the top left, just under "Home", and go to Messages # 846, # 847, # 848, # 849, where his Scriptural Study "Something Different: Lunar Sabbaths" was posted.
 
Or you can read it directly at his web site, at  http://www.ponderscripture.org/lunarsabbintro.htm .
 
May YAHWEH Open your mind and heart to Understand that you are teaching an HERESY!
 
In YAHSHUA's Name,
 
Carlo Tognoni
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
=================================================================================================
 

 

 

 



----- Original Message ----
From: "YHWHPeople@..." <YHWHPeople@...>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 5:45:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Again, what is the differance between Larry and a lunar sabbath keeper or anybody if they count 50 days from the 16th they will be on the same day.

Remember Larry DON'T count 7 Sabbaths, he counts days period. Ask him and he will tell you I am right and he count days not sabaths and anyone can do the same even lunar Sabbath keepers. I dont see why you cant see this simple FACT. ASK LARRY.

I forgot how to get to your web site to see what he wrote.

Brother Arnold


-----Original Message-----
From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 2:26 am
Subject: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Larry,

WHY did you change TWICE the text of my message, from '16th Day'
to '12th Day'???

In my message, included here bwlow (that can be read at Message # 877
in the Group's Message Archive), I wrote TWICE 'the 16th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 16th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 16th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

In Larry's reply (that can be read at Message # 878 in the Group's
Message Archive), my message, included after your reply, instead,
reads TWICE 'the 12th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

In a message dated 11/21/2007 2:32:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com writes:

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 12th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 12th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Larry, I really wonder WHY did you change the text of my message???

Waiting for your prompt reply and explanation.

Carlo Tognoni

Group owner and moderator

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!


Reply | Messages in this Topic (9)
#893 From: Seekutruth@...
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:17 am
Subject: Re: Request to be removed from list 		Seekutruth@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Shalom, Arnold,
 
As you may recall from our three-year discussion in EliYah's Forums, one of the major points of conflict between you and me has been your persistent misrepresentations of the things I write.  Over nine months ago, I removed myself from having to put up with your mistaken paraphrases of what I believe (and have written), even though something tells me you've continued with the same when I'm not around to catch you at it. 
 
In this instance, once again, you have misrepresented me, and once again, I ask you to please stop.  Anyone who has read the study June and I wrote pertaining to the count to Pentecost knows that what you wrote, i.e., "Larry DON'T count 7 Sabbaths, he counts days period," is simply not true. 
 
According to the Septuagint, "And ye shall number to yourselves from the day after the sabbath, from the day on which ye shall offer the sheaf of the heave-offering, seven full WEEKS: until the morrow after the last WEEK ye shall number FIFTY DAYS, and shall bring a new meat-offering to YHWH."  This translation reflects the understanding of the Hebrew scholars who translated the Torah from Hebrew into Greek in the 3rd century BCE.  This was also the understanding of Philo, a contemporary of Yeshua, as well as the historian Josephus.  Not everyone agrees with the Septuagint's translation, and that's fine, but that's not my point here.  My point is, while we do count days, we don't "count days period," as you would have others believe.  As per the Septuagint translation, we also count weeks. 
 
June and I make it plain in our study that we respect the view of those who believe the count begins on the morrow after the weekly Sabbath, even though we do not agree.  Our study was not written to slam those with whom we disagree:  It was written as our response to those who make a point of letting us know that they believe our view is "wrong."  You are free to agree or disagree.  Until we are shown that our evidence is flawed, we will continue to count this way.  We aren't trying to dissuade anyone from continuing to practice the way they've been counting, but since we have (once again) been misrepresented, I will only state that we not only count days, as commanded, but we also count weeks for the same reason. 
 
As for the way you count to Pentecost (observing it in the fourth month of the Scriptural year), this is something we spent an inordinate amount of time discussing in EliYah's Forums, with both sides believing their respective view is correct.  No resolution came about during our three-year discussion, nor do I expect any resolution here.
 
Carlo, I would prefer to avoid further communication in this unfruitful manner, so I would like to officially request that my name and/or e-mail address be removed from this list.  However, anyone wishing to e-mail me privately, presuming they do so with the spirit of benevolence and integrity, is welcome to do so, and I will do my best to respond in a timely manner.  Thank you very much!
 
With love in Messiah,
Larry Acheson
 
In a message dated 11/24/2007 5:46:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, YHWHPeople@... writes:

Again, what is the differance between Larry and a lunar sabbath keeper or anybody if they count 50 days from the 16th they will be on the same day.

Remember Larry DON'T count 7 Sabbaths, he counts days period. Ask him and he will tell you I am right and he count days not sabaths and anyone can do the same even lunar Sabbath keepers. I dont see why you cant see this simple FACT. ASK LARRY.

I forgot how to get to your web site to see what he wrote.

Brother Arnold


-----Original Message-----
From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@yahoo.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 2:26 am
Subject: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Larry,

WHY did you change TWICE the text of my message, from '16th Day'
to '12th Day'???

In my message, included here bwlow (that can be read at Message # 877
in the Group's Message Archive), I wrote TWICE 'the 16th Day':

----------------------------------------------------------

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 16th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 16th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofyahweh.com

======================================================================

In Larry's reply (that can be read at Message # 878 in the Group's
Message Archive), my message, included after your reply, instead,
reads TWICE 'the 12th Day':

----------------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 11/21/2007 2:32:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
yahwehcommunity@yahoo.com writes:

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 12th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 12th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofyahweh.com

======================================================================

Larry, I really wonder WHY did you change the text of my message???

Waiting for your prompt reply and explanation.

Carlo Tognoni

Group owner and moderator

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofyahweh.com

======================================================================

Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!

 



Check out AOL Money Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (7)
#894 From: YHWHPeople@...
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:30 am
Subject: Re: Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'? 		YHWHPeople@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Shalom Brother Carlo,

I am glad we can at least agree on one thing and that is when a scriptural New moon/month begins.

I don't know of another way to explain it to you about counting to Pentecost other than it don’t matter how or which Sabbath you keep, if you count 50 days beginning on the 16th, you will wind up at the same place 50 days later, no matter who you are. And that is the way Larry counts to Pentecost. He does not pay any attention to New moon days OR SABBATHS, he just counts to 50, and anyone else can do the same no matter which Sabbath they keep. Please ask him and he will tell you that, he is not that deceitful.

I do not agree with his count except the beginning on the 16th which is in harmony with Philo, Josephus and the Septuagint, not to mention scripture.

Unlike Brother Larry, I count 7 Sabbaths complete even unto the morrow after the 7th Sabbath and then I number 50 days and then bring a new meat offering from my summer wheat harvest. See http://lunarsabbath.info/_wsn/page4.html 



-----Original Message-----
From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@...>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 8:36 pm
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Arnold,
 
I guess I am not able to explain it clearly (you know, English is NOT my mother tongue, that is ITALIAN...), or you are not able, or you do not want to understand it.
 
Even a little child would understand that 50 days after the SAME day would TIMELY end on the SAME day, but, OF COURSE, that is NOT the point in discussion!
 
Let me try to explain it in another way...
 
Larry counts from the 16th, and he counts seven Weeks of 7 Days Each (that is, 49 Days), giving the meaning of 'Weeks' to the word 'Sabbaths' to count, and, on the 50 Day, his count ends on the SAME Day of the Week of when his count began, usually after Seven Sabbaths are passed (with a "strange" case, Proving that counting in such way is Scripturally erroneous, if the 16th falls on a Seventh Day Sabbath, in which the count ends on a Seventh Day Sabbath, that should be "the Day after the Seven Sabbath", with EIGHT Sabbaths passed?!?).
 
Instead, you, lunar sabbatarians, if you count 50 days from the 16th (that, for you, is ALWAYS on the first day of the week), you timely (OF COURSE!) end on the same day that Larry's count ends, but, for you, it is NOT the SAME Day of the Week that you have begun your count, and NINE sabbaths are passed (including your "extended sabbaths" at the end of your lunar month, since they are counted in such count of 50 days, otherwise, if you skip your "extended sabbaths", you can have seven "regular" sabbaths, but your count would end 2 or 3 days later)!?!
 
Instead, The Scriptures CLEARLY say that the count to Pentecost BEGINS on the Day After the Sabbath, and it ENDS on the Day After the Seventh Sabbath, 50 Days later, so that the count has to BEGIN and END on the SAME Day of the Week, AFTER Seven Sabbaths, NO MATTER WHAT!
 
So that the count of the lunar sabbatarians, ANYWAY, even using Larry's method, and TIMELY ending on the SAME day, is WRONG, because falling in a DIFFERENT day of the week than when it began, and after NINE sabbaths!
 
IS THAT FINALLY CLEAR??? I hope so....
 
 
About how to geto to our web site, to see what Larry wrote, if you mean the web site of The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group (since his Scriptural Study is NOT yet on the web site of The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA), you can go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons/ , and then click on "Messages" on the top left, just under "Home", and go to Messages # 846, # 847, # 848, # 849, where his Scriptural Study "Something Different: Lunar Sabbaths" was posted.
 
Or you can read it directly at his web site, at  http://www.ponderscripture.org/lunarsabbintro.htm .
 
May YAHWEH Open your mind and heart to Understand that you are teaching an HERESY!
 
In YAHSHUA's Name,
 
Carlo Tognoni
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
=================================================================================================
 
 
 
 


----- Original Message ----
From: "YHWHPeople@aol.com" <YHWHPeople@aol.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 5:45:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Again, what is the differance between Larry and a lunar sabbath keeper or anybody if they count 50 days from the 16th they will be on the same day.

Remember Larry DON'T count 7 Sabbaths, he counts days period. Ask him and he will tell you I am right and he count days not sabaths and anyone can do the same even lunar Sabbath keepers. I dont see why you cant see this simple FACT. ASK LARRY.

I forgot how to get to your web site to see what he wrote.

Brother Arnold


-----Original Message-----
From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 2:26 am
Subject: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Larry,

WHY did you change TWICE the text of my message, from '16th Day'
to '12th Day'???

In my message, included here bwlow (that can be read at Message # 877
in the Group's Message Archive), I wrote TWICE 'the 16th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 16th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 16th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

In Larry's reply (that can be read at Message # 878 in the Group's
Message Archive), my message, included after your reply, instead,
reads TWICE 'the 12th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

In a message dated 11/21/2007 2:32:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com writes:

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 12th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 12th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Larry, I really wonder WHY did you change the text of my message???

Waiting for your prompt reply and explanation.

Carlo Tognoni

Group owner and moderator

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!


Reply | Messages in this Topic (9)
#895 From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@...>
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:18 am
Subject: Re: Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'? 		yahwehcommunity
Send Email Send Email
 
Arnold,
 
sorry, but actually we do NOT agree even when a Scriptural New Moon / Month begins, because, even if both of us believe that the monthly Conjunction between Sun and Moon is the New Moon, marking the beginning of the Scriptural Month, very often we begin the Month on DIFFERENT Days, because you (erroneously from my point of view) believe that the Day begins from the Sunset / Dark, and I believe that the Day begins from the Dawn / Sunrise, so that very often what I believe to be the First Day of the Month would be your Second Day of the Month, because you (erroneously from my point of view) begin the Day from the Night before.
 
About the count to Pentecost, I already told you that to simply count 50 Days, OF COURSE, is TIMELY the SAME for EVERYONE, but, because of your lunar sabbath doctrine, your count of 50 Days, including your "extended sabbaths", will end on the SAME TIME, but on DIFFERENT Days of the Week, and with MORE Sabbaths passed than Larry's, and CONTRARY to The Scriptures.
 
May YAHWEH Open your mind and heart to Understand It!
 
In YAHSHUA's Name,
 
Carlo Tognoni
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
=================================================================================================
 
 

----- Original Message ----
From: "YHWHPeople@..." <YHWHPeople@...>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 11:30:15 PM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Shalom Brother Carlo,

I am glad we can at least agree on one thing and that is when a scriptural New moon/month begins.

I don't know of another way to explain it to you about counting to Pentecost other than it don¢t matter how or which Sabbath you keep, if you count 50 days beginning on the 16th, you will wind up at the same place 50 days later, no matter who you are. And that is the way Larry counts to Pentecost. He does not pay any attention to New moon days OR SABBATHS, he just counts to 50, and anyone else can do the same no matter which Sabbath they keep. Please ask him and he will tell you that, he is not that deceitful.

I do not agree with his count except the beginning on the 16th which is in harmony with Philo, Josephus and the Septuagint, not to mention scripture.

Unlike Brother Larry, I count 7 Sabbaths complete even unto the morrow after the 7th Sabbath and then I number 50 days and then bring a new meat offering from my summer wheat harvest. See http://lunarsabbath .info/_wsn/ page4.html 



-----Original Message-----
From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 8:36 pm
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Arnold,
 
I guess I am not able to explain it clearly (you know, English is NOT my mother tongue, that is ITALIAN...), or you are not able, or you do not want to understand it.
 
Even a little child would understand that 50 days after the SAME day would TIMELY end on the SAME day, but, OF COURSE, that is NOT the point in discussion!
 
Let me try to explain it in another way...
 
Larry counts from the 16th, and he counts seven Weeks of 7 Days Each (that is, 49 Days), giving the meaning of 'Weeks' to the word 'Sabbaths' to count, and, on the 50 Day, his count ends on the SAME Day of the Week of when his count began, usually after Seven Sabbaths are passed (with a "strange" case, Proving that counting in such way is Scripturally erroneous, if the 16th falls on a Seventh Day Sabbath, in which the count ends on a Seventh Day Sabbath, that should be "the Day after the Seven Sabbath", with EIGHT Sabbaths passed?!?).
 
Instead, you, lunar sabbatarians, if you count 50 days from the 16th (that, for you, is ALWAYS on the first day of the week), you timely (OF COURSE!) end on the same day that Larry's count ends, but, for you, it is NOT the SAME Day of the Week that you have begun your count, and NINE sabbaths are passed (including your "extended sabbaths" at the end of your lunar month, since they are counted in such count of 50 days, otherwise, if you skip your "extended sabbaths", you can have seven "regular" sabbaths, but your count would end 2 or 3 days later)!?!
 
Instead, The Scriptures CLEARLY say that the count to Pentecost BEGINS on the Day After the Sabbath, and it ENDS on the Day After the Seventh Sabbath, 50 Days later, so that the count has to BEGIN and END on the SAME Day of the Week, AFTER Seven Sabbaths, NO MATTER WHAT!
 
So that the count of the lunar sabbatarians, ANYWAY, even using Larry's method, and TIMELY ending on the SAME day, is WRONG, because falling in a DIFFERENT day of the week than when it began, and after NINE sabbaths!
 
IS THAT FINALLY CLEAR??? I hope so....
 
 
About how to geto to our web site, to see what Larry wrote, if you mean the web site of The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group (since his Scriptural Study is NOT yet on the web site of The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA), you can go to http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/TheTrueSab bathsAndNewMoons / , and then click on "Messages" on the top left, just under "Home", and go to Messages # 846, # 847, # 848, # 849, where his Scriptural Study "Something Different: Lunar Sabbaths" was posted.
 
Or you can read it directly at his web site, at  http://www.pondersc ripture.org/ lunarsabbintro. htm .
 
May YAHWEH Open your mind and heart to Understand that you are teaching an HERESY!
 
In YAHSHUA's Name,
 
Carlo Tognoni
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====
 
 
 
 


----- Original Message ----
From: "YHWHPeople@ aol.com" <YHWHPeople@aol. com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 5:45:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Again, what is the differance between Larry and a lunar sabbath keeper or anybody if they count 50 days from the 16th they will be on the same day.

Remember Larry DON'T count 7 Sabbaths, he counts days period. Ask him and he will tell you I am right and he count days not sabaths and anyone can do the same even lunar Sabbath keepers. I dont see why you cant see this simple FACT. ASK LARRY.

I forgot how to get to your web site to see what he wrote.

Brother Arnold


-----Original Message-----
From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 2:26 am
Subject: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Larry,

WHY did you change TWICE the text of my message, from '16th Day'
to '12th Day'???

In my message, included here bwlow (that can be read at Message # 877
in the Group's Message Archive), I wrote TWICE 'the 16th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 16th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 16th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

In Larry's reply (that can be read at Message # 878 in the Group's
Message Archive), my message, included after your reply, instead,
reads TWICE 'the 12th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

In a message dated 11/21/2007 2:32:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com writes:

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 12th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 12th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Larry, I really wonder WHY did you change the text of my message???

Waiting for your prompt reply and explanation.

Carlo Tognoni

Group owner and moderator

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!



Reply | Messages in this Topic (9)
#896 From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@...>
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:36 am
Subject: Re: Request to be removed from list 		yahwehcommunity
Send Email Send Email
 
Shalom Larry!
 
I am Very Sorry to hear your request to be removed from the Group.
 
Just for Arnold?!? Are not the other 100 Members / Families of the Group MORE IMPORTANT than him?!?
 
And I am sure that you can be very useful to everyone of them, with your important contributions, from time to time!
 
I would like to kindly ask you to remain subscribed to the Group, just to control what people (i.e., Arnold Bowen, for example) can write about what you said, and to be able to correct them, if you want, from time to time, if they mispresent you.
 
To prove my appreciation for your Scriptural Studies (even if I do not agree with all of them), I have added a Link to your Web Site, "Truth Seekers - Ponder Scripture" (www.ponderscripture.org) in The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA Web Site (www.thecommunityofyahweh.com). 
 
I would like to leave to you the final decision. So, if you want to stay subscribed to the Group, just don't do anything, and, instead, if you want to be removed from the Group, just click "unsubscribe", at the bottom of the e-mail.
 
No one, except me (as Group owner and moderator) will know your decision, if you are in or out of the Group (a smart way to remain in...).
 
May YAHWEH Bless you and yours!
 
True Love in YAHSHUA,
 
your brother Carlo Tognoni
 
Group owner and moderator
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
=================================================================================================
 
 
 

----- Original Message ----
From: "Seekutruth@..." <Seekutruth@...>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 11:17:24 PM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Request to be removed from list

Shalom, Arnold,
 
As you may recall from our three-year discussion in EliYah's Forums, one of the major points of conflict between you and me has been your persistent misrepresentations of the things I write.  Over nine months ago, I removed myself from having to put up with your mistaken paraphrases of what I believe (and have written), even though something tells me you've continued with the same when I'm not around to catch you at it. 
 
In this instance, once again, you have misrepresented me, and once again, I ask you to please stop.  Anyone who has read the study June and I wrote pertaining to the count to Pentecost knows that what you wrote, i.e., "Larry DON'T count 7 Sabbaths, he counts days period," is simply not true. 
 
According to the Septuagint, "And ye shall number to yourselves from the day after the sabbath, from the day on which ye shall offer the sheaf of the heave-offering, seven full WEEKS: until the morrow after the last WEEK ye shall number FIFTY DAYS, and shall bring a new meat-offering to YHWH."  This translation reflects the understanding of the Hebrew scholars who translated the Torah from Hebrew into Greek in the 3rd century BCE.  This was also the understanding of Philo, a contemporary of Yeshua, as well as the historian Josephus.  Not everyone agrees with the Septuagint's translation, and that's fine, but that's not my point here.  My point is, while we do count days, we don't "count days period," as you would have others believe.  As per the Septuagint translation, we also count weeks. 
 
June and I make it plain in our study that we respect the view of those who believe the count begins on the morrow after the weekly Sabbath, even though we do not agree.  Our study was not written to slam those with whom we disagree:  It was written as our response to those who make a point of letting us know that they believe our view is "wrong."  You are free to agree or disagree.  Until we are shown that our evidence is flawed, we will continue to count this way.  We aren't trying to dissuade anyone from continuing to practice the way they've been counting, but since we have (once again) been misrepresented, I will only state that we not only count days, as commanded, but we also count weeks for the same reason. 
 
As for the way you count to Pentecost (observing it in the fourth month of the Scriptural year), this is something we spent an inordinate amount of time discussing in EliYah's Forums, with both sides believing their respective view is correct.  No resolution came about during our three-year discussion, nor do I expect any resolution here.
 
Carlo, I would prefer to avoid further communication in this unfruitful manner, so I would like to officially request that my name and/or e-mail address be removed from this list.  However, anyone wishing to e-mail me privately, presuming they do so with the spirit of benevolence and integrity, is welcome to do so, and I will do my best to respond in a timely manner.  Thank you very much!
 
With love in Messiah,
Larry Acheson
 
In a message dated 11/24/2007 5:46:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, YHWHPeople@aol. com writes:

Again, what is the differance between Larry and a lunar sabbath keeper or anybody if they count 50 days from the 16th they will be on the same day.

Remember Larry DON'T count 7 Sabbaths, he counts days period. Ask him and he will tell you I am right and he count days not sabaths and anyone can do the same even lunar Sabbath keepers. I dont see why you cant see this simple FACT. ASK LARRY.

I forgot how to get to your web site to see what he wrote.

Brother Arnold


-----Original Message-----
From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 2:26 am
Subject: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Larry,

WHY did you change TWICE the text of my message, from '16th Day'
to '12th Day'???

In my message, included here bwlow (that can be read at Message # 877
in the Group's Message Archive), I wrote TWICE 'the 16th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 16th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 16th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

In Larry's reply (that can be read at Message # 878 in the Group's
Message Archive), my message, included after your reply, instead,
reads TWICE 'the 12th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

In a message dated 11/21/2007 2:32:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com writes:

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 12th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 12th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Larry, I really wonder WHY did you change the text of my message???

Waiting for your prompt reply and explanation.

Carlo Tognoni

Group owner and moderator

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!

 



Check out AOL Money Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.


Reply | Messages in this Topic (7)
#897 From: Seekutruth@...
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:02 am
Subject: Re: Request to be removed from list 		Seekutruth@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Shalom, Carlo,
 
Please understand that my decision to be removed from the group is not "just for Arnold," and no, the other members of the group are NOT more important than him.  I have met Arnold, and in spite of our tremendous differences, including other concerns that I prefer to not bring up here, I like him as a person and wish him no ill will.  Moreover, I believe each individual is equally important, so no one in this group is, in my estimation, more important than Arnold. 
 
I believe I sufficiently explained my reason for not wishing to participate in the e-mail I sent on 11/22/2007.  As I mentioned in that e-mail, I spent over three years in what I feel was a fruitless forum discussion with lunar sabbatarians (not just Arnold!), and quite frankly, I do not expect this discussion to be any different.  I also wrote, "Suffice it to say that my relationship with lunar sabbatarians did not improve as a result of participating in that forum.  Rather, it deteriorated.  Judging by the tone of the current discussion, nothing seems to have changed, including my desire to become involved in exchanges with lunar sabbatarians.  Based upon previous experience, I know that any exchanges I have with them will be counter-productive." 
 
It may or may not help you to know that I have never claimed to be a teacher, preacher, prophet, rabbi, elder, or whatever other title man chooses to place upon himself.  I have always been, and I remain, a student of the Word ... a truth seeker.  As a student of the Word, I sometimes have my conclusions pertaining to Scripture challenged, and this is why I have chosen to compile the studies that appear on our web site.  Most of them were written in response to exchanges I have had with other believers over the years.  Thus, I regard most of our studies to be "responses" more than actual "studies," per se.
 
With all the above in mind, many of our "responses" to lunar sabbatarian claims may be found on our web site.  Eventually, Yahweh willing, all of our "responses" will be there for everyone to see.  In the meantime, if anyone of noble intentions has any questions, they are free to e-mail me privately.  As time allows, I will do my best to reply to any such inquiries.  As far as correcting the misrepresentations and mischaracterizations that lunar sabbatarians may choose to make about me and the things I have written, all I can say is, I am more concerned with regard to what Yahweh thinks about me than what man thinks about me.  He alone knows my heart.
 
Again, I appreciate the kind invitation to join this group, but I believe it would be best for me to not participate. 
 
May Yahweh bless you all!
 
Love in Messiah,
Larry
 
In a message dated 11/25/2007 12:36:55 A.M. Central Standard Time, yahwehcommunity@... writes:

Shalom Larry!
 
I am Very Sorry to hear your request to be removed from the Group.
 
Just for Arnold?!? Are not the other 100 Members / Families of the Group MORE IMPORTANT than him?!?
 
And I am sure that you can be very useful to everyone of them, with your important contributions, from time to time!
 
I would like to kindly ask you to remain subscribed to the Group, just to control what people (i.e., Arnold Bowen, for example) can write about what you said, and to be able to correct them, if you want, from time to time, if they mispresent you.
 
To prove my appreciation for your Scriptural Studies (even if I do not agree with all of them), I have added a Link to your Web Site, "Truth Seekers - Ponder Scripture" (www.ponderscripture.org) in The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA Web Site (www.thecommunityofyahweh.com). 
 
I would like to leave to you the final decision. So, if you want to stay subscribed to the Group, just don't do anything, and, instead, if you want to be removed from the Group, just click "unsubscribe", at the bottom of the e-mail.
 
No one, except me (as Group owner and moderator) will know your decision, if you are in or out of the Group (a smart way to remain in...).
 
May YAHWEH Bless you and yours!
 
True Love in YAHSHUA,
 
your brother Carlo Tognoni
 
Group owner and moderator
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
=================================================================================================
 
 


 
----- Original Message ----
From: "Seekutruth@aol.com" <Seekutruth@aol.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 11:17:24 PM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Request to be removed from list

Shalom, Arnold,
 
As you may recall from our three-year discussion in EliYah's Forums, one of the major points of conflict between you and me has been your persistent misrepresentations of the things I write.  Over nine months ago, I removed myself from having to put up with your mistaken paraphrases of what I believe (and have written), even though something tells me you've continued with the same when I'm not around to catch you at it. 
 
In this instance, once again, you have misrepresented me, and once again, I ask you to please stop.  Anyone who has read the study June and I wrote pertaining to the count to Pentecost knows that what you wrote, i.e., "Larry DON'T count 7 Sabbaths, he counts days period," is simply not true. 
 
According to the Septuagint, "And ye shall number to yourselves from the day after the sabbath, from the day on which ye shall offer the sheaf of the heave-offering, seven full WEEKS: until the morrow after the last WEEK ye shall number FIFTY DAYS, and shall bring a new meat-offering to YHWH."  This translation reflects the understanding of the Hebrew scholars who translated the Torah from Hebrew into Greek in the 3rd century BCE.  This was also the understanding of Philo, a contemporary of Yeshua, as well as the historian Josephus.  Not everyone agrees with the Septuagint's translation, and that's fine, but that's not my point here.  My point is, while we do count days, we don't "count days period," as you would have others believe.  As per the Septuagint translation, we also count weeks. 
 
June and I make it plain in our study that we respect the view of those who believe the count begins on the morrow after the weekly Sabbath, even though we do not agree.  Our study was not written to slam those with whom we disagree:  It was written as our response to those who make a point of letting us know that they believe our view is "wrong."  You are free to agree or disagree.  Until we are shown that our evidence is flawed, we will continue to count this way.  We aren't trying to dissuade anyone from continuing to practice the way they've been counting, but since we have (once again) been misrepresented, I will only state that we not only count days, as commanded, but we also count weeks for the same reason. 
 
As for the way you count to Pentecost (observing it in the fourth month of the Scriptural year), this is something we spent an inordinate amount of time discussing in EliYah's Forums, with both sides believing their respective view is correct.  No resolution came about during our three-year discussion, nor do I expect any resolution here.
 
Carlo, I would prefer to avoid further communication in this unfruitful manner, so I would like to officially request that my name and/or e-mail address be removed from this list.  However, anyone wishing to e-mail me privately, presuming they do so with the spirit of benevolence and integrity, is welcome to do so, and I will do my best to respond in a timely manner.  Thank you very much!
 
With love in Messiah,
Larry Acheson
 
In a message dated 11/24/2007 5:46:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, YHWHPeople@aol. com writes:

Again, what is the differance between Larry and a lunar sabbath keeper or anybody if they count 50 days from the 16th they will be on the same day.

Remember Larry DON'T count 7 Sabbaths, he counts days period. Ask him and he will tell you I am right and he count days not sabaths and anyone can do the same even lunar Sabbath keepers. I dont see why you cant see this simple FACT. ASK LARRY.

I forgot how to get to your web site to see what he wrote.

Brother Arnold


-----Original Message-----
From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 2:26 am
Subject: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Larry,

WHY did you change TWICE the text of my message, from '16th Day'
to '12th Day'???

In my message, included here bwlow (that can be read at Message # 877
in the Group's Message Archive), I wrote TWICE 'the 16th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 16th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 16th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

In Larry's reply (that can be read at Message # 878 in the Group's
Message Archive), my message, included after your reply, instead,
reads TWICE 'the 12th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

In a message dated 11/21/2007 2:32:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com writes:

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 12th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 12th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Larry, I really wonder WHY did you change the text of my message???

Waiting for your prompt reply and explanation.

Carlo Tognoni

Group owner and moderator

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!

 



Check out AOL Money Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.

 



Check out AOL Money Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (7)
#898 From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@...>
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:39 pm
Subject: Re: Request to be removed from list 		yahwehcommunity
Send Email Send Email
 
Shalom Larry!
 
I am Very Sorry that you have confirmed your decision to unsubscribe from the Group.
 
By saying that the other 100 Members / Families of the Group are more important than Arnold, I was clearly referring to the way he has been mispresenting you, of which you worried about, and certainly NOT to him as person, of course, that also I perceive to be sincere, even if he was "blinded" in such "lunar passion", that is his "trap"!
 
We have always to remember that "Satan is the deceiver of the WHOLE WORD" (Revelation 12:9), and that could include also us, if that was possible, assuming to be among the very elect (Mattithyah / Matthew 24:24)!
 
For you to remain subscribed to the Group, it would have not necessarily meant to actively partecipate to the Discussions, since out of more than 100 Members / Families of the Group, usually only few of them post Messages, just as it usually occurs in all the other Forums and Groups of Discussion.
 
Anyway, I respect your decision.
 
May YAHWEH Bless you and yours!
 
True Love in YAHSHUA,
 
your brother Carlo Tognoni
 
Group owner and moderator
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
=================================================================================================
 
 


 
----- Original Message ----
From: "Seekutruth@..." <Seekutruth@...>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 8:02:24 AM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Request to be removed from list

Shalom, Carlo,
 
Please understand that my decision to be removed from the group is not "just for Arnold," and no, the other members of the group are NOT more important than him.  I have met Arnold, and in spite of our tremendous differences, including other concerns that I prefer to not bring up here, I like him as a person and wish him no ill will.  Moreover, I believe each individual is equally important, so no one in this group is, in my estimation, more important than Arnold. 
 
I believe I sufficiently explained my reason for not wishing to participate in the e-mail I sent on 11/22/2007.  As I mentioned in that e-mail, I spent over three years in what I feel was a fruitless forum discussion with lunar sabbatarians (not just Arnold!), and quite frankly, I do not expect this discussion to be any different.  I also wrote, "Suffice it to say that my relationship with lunar sabbatarians did not improve as a result of participating in that forum.  Rather, it deteriorated.  Judging by the tone of the current discussion, nothing seems to have changed, including my desire to become involved in exchanges with lunar sabbatarians.  Based upon previous experience, I know that any exchanges I have with them will be counter-productive. " 
 
It may or may not help you to know that I have never claimed to be a teacher, preacher, prophet, rabbi, elder, or whatever other title man chooses to place upon himself.  I have always been, and I remain, a student of the Word ... a truth seeker.  As a student of the Word, I sometimes have my conclusions pertaining to Scripture challenged, and this is why I have chosen to compile the studies that appear on our web site.  Most of them were written in response to exchanges I have had with other believers over the years.  Thus, I regard most of our studies to be "responses" more than actual "studies," per se.
 
With all the above in mind, many of our "responses" to lunar sabbatarian claims may be found on our web site.  Eventually, Yahweh willing, all of our "responses" will be there for everyone to see.  In the meantime, if anyone of noble intentions has any questions, they are free to e-mail me privately.  As time allows, I will do my best to reply to any such inquiries.  As far as correcting the misrepresentations and mischaracterization s that lunar sabbatarians may choose to make about me and the things I have written, all I can say is, I am more concerned with regard to what Yahweh thinks about me than what man thinks about me.  He alone knows my heart.
 
Again, I appreciate the kind invitation to join this group, but I believe it would be best for me to not participate. 
 
May Yahweh bless you all!
 
Love in Messiah,
Larry
 
In a message dated 11/25/2007 12:36:55 A.M. Central Standard Time, yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com writes:

Shalom Larry!
 
I am Very Sorry to hear your request to be removed from the Group.
 
Just for Arnold?!? Are not the other 100 Members / Families of the Group MORE IMPORTANT than him?!?
 
And I am sure that you can be very useful to everyone of them, with your important contributions, from time to time!
 
I would like to kindly ask you to remain subscribed to the Group, just to control what people (i.e., Arnold Bowen, for example) can write about what you said, and to be able to correct them, if you want, from time to time, if they mispresent you.
 
To prove my appreciation for your Scriptural Studies (even if I do not agree with all of them), I have added a Link to your Web Site, "Truth Seekers - Ponder Scripture" (www.ponderscripture .org) in The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA Web Site (www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com). 
 
I would like to leave to you the final decision. So, if you want to stay subscribed to the Group, just don't do anything, and, instead, if you want to be removed from the Group, just click "unsubscribe" , at the bottom of the e-mail.
 
No one, except me (as Group owner and moderator) will know your decision, if you are in or out of the Group (a smart way to remain in...).
 
May YAHWEH Bless you and yours!
 
True Love in YAHSHUA,
 
your brother Carlo Tognoni
 
Group owner and moderator
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====
 
 


 
----- Original Message ----
From: "Seekutruth@ aol.com" <Seekutruth@aol. com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 11:17:24 PM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Request to be removed from list

Shalom, Arnold,
 
As you may recall from our three-year discussion in EliYah's Forums, one of the major points of conflict between you and me has been your persistent misrepresentations of the things I write.  Over nine months ago, I removed myself from having to put up with your mistaken paraphrases of what I believe (and have written), even though something tells me you've continued with the same when I'm not around to catch you at it. 
 
In this instance, once again, you have misrepresented me, and once again, I ask you to please stop.  Anyone who has read the study June and I wrote pertaining to the count to Pentecost knows that what you wrote, i.e., "Larry DON'T count 7 Sabbaths, he counts days period," is simply not true. 
 
According to the Septuagint, "And ye shall number to yourselves from the day after the sabbath, from the day on which ye shall offer the sheaf of the heave-offering, seven full WEEKS: until the morrow after the last WEEK ye shall number FIFTY DAYS, and shall bring a new meat-offering to YHWH."  This translation reflects the understanding of the Hebrew scholars who translated the Torah from Hebrew into Greek in the 3rd century BCE.  This was also the understanding of Philo, a contemporary of Yeshua, as well as the historian Josephus.  Not everyone agrees with the Septuagint's translation, and that's fine, but that's not my point here.  My point is, while we do count days, we don't "count days period," as you would have others believe.  As per the Septuagint translation, we also count weeks. 
 
June and I make it plain in our study that we respect the view of those who believe the count begins on the morrow after the weekly Sabbath, even though we do not agree.  Our study was not written to slam those with whom we disagree:  It was written as our response to those who make a point of letting us know that they believe our view is "wrong."  You are free to agree or disagree.  Until we are shown that our evidence is flawed, we will continue to count this way.  We aren't trying to dissuade anyone from continuing to practice the way they've been counting, but since we have (once again) been misrepresented, I will only state that we not only count days, as commanded, but we also count weeks for the same reason. 
 
As for the way you count to Pentecost (observing it in the fourth month of the Scriptural year), this is something we spent an inordinate amount of time discussing in EliYah's Forums, with both sides believing their respective view is correct.  No resolution came about during our three-year discussion, nor do I expect any resolution here.
 
Carlo, I would prefer to avoid further communication in this unfruitful manner, so I would like to officially request that my name and/or e-mail address be removed from this list.  However, anyone wishing to e-mail me privately, presuming they do so with the spirit of benevolence and integrity, is welcome to do so, and I will do my best to respond in a timely manner.  Thank you very much!
 
With love in Messiah,
Larry Acheson
 
In a message dated 11/24/2007 5:46:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, YHWHPeople@aol. com writes:

Again, what is the differance between Larry and a lunar sabbath keeper or anybody if they count 50 days from the 16th they will be on the same day.

Remember Larry DON'T count 7 Sabbaths, he counts days period. Ask him and he will tell you I am right and he count days not sabaths and anyone can do the same even lunar Sabbath keepers. I dont see why you cant see this simple FACT. ASK LARRY.

I forgot how to get to your web site to see what he wrote.

Brother Arnold


-----Original Message-----
From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 2:26 am
Subject: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Larry,

WHY did you change TWICE the text of my message, from '16th Day'
to '12th Day'???

In my message, included here bwlow (that can be read at Message # 877
in the Group's Message Archive), I wrote TWICE 'the 16th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 16th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 16th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

In Larry's reply (that can be read at Message # 878 in the Group's
Message Archive), my message, included after your reply, instead,
reads TWICE 'the 12th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

In a message dated 11/21/2007 2:32:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com writes:

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 12th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 12th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Larry, I really wonder WHY did you change the text of my message???

Waiting for your prompt reply and explanation.

Carlo Tognoni

Group owner and moderator

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!

 



Check out AOL Money Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.

 



Check out AOL Money Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.


Reply | Messages in this Topic (7)
#899 From: "Mark A. Fredrick" <mrsf@...>
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:58 pm
Subject: Re: Request to be removed from list 		mrsf@...
Send Email Send Email
 
I understand why why you must leave. It is the same reason I don't participate much. I see the strife that arises.

1Ti 6:4  He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings.

1Ti 6:5  Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

1Ti 6:6  But godliness with contentment is great gain.

 

Tit 3:9  But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

 

Jeremiah




Seekutruth@... wrote:

Shalom, Carlo,
 
Please understand that my decision to be removed from the group is not "just for Arnold," and no, the other members of the group are NOT more important than him.  I have met Arnold, and in spite of our tremendous differences, including other concerns that I prefer to not bring up here, I like him as a person and wish him no ill will.  Moreover, I believe each individual is equally important, so no one in this group is, in my estimation, more important than Arnold. 
 
I believe I sufficiently explained my reason for not wishing to participate in the e-mail I sent on 11/22/2007.  As I mentioned in that e-mail, I spent over three years in what I feel was a fruitless forum discussion with lunar sabbatarians (not just Arnold!), and quite frankly, I do not expect this discussion to be any different.  I also wrote, "Suffice it to say that my relationship with lunar sabbatarians did not improve as a result of participating in that forum.  Rather, it deteriorated.  Judging by the tone of the current discussion, nothing seems to have changed, including my desire to become involved in exchanges with lunar sabbatarians.  Based upon previous experience, I know that any exchanges I have with them will be counter-productive." 
 
It may or may not help you to know that I have never claimed to be a teacher, preacher, prophet, rabbi, elder, or whatever other title man chooses to place upon himself.  I have always been, and I remain, a student of the Word ... a truth seeker.  As a student of the Word, I sometimes have my conclusions pertaining to Scripture challenged, and this is why I have chosen to compile the studies that appear on our web site.  Most of them were written in response to exchanges I have had with other believers over the years.  Thus, I regard most of our studies to be "responses" more than actual "studies," per se.
 
With all the above in mind, many of our "responses" to lunar sabbatarian claims may be found on our web site.  Eventually, Yahweh willing, all of our "responses" will be there for everyone to see.  In the meantime, if anyone of noble intentions has any questions, they are free to e-mail me privately.  As time allows, I will do my best to reply to any such inquiries.  As far as correcting the misrepresentations and mischaracterizations that lunar sabbatarians may choose to make about me and the things I have written, all I can say is, I am more concerned with regard to what Yahweh thinks about me than what man thinks about me.  He alone knows my heart.
 
Again, I appreciate the kind invitation to join this group, but I believe it would be best for me to not participate. 
 
May Yahweh bless you all!
 
Love in Messiah,
Larry
 
In a message dated 11/25/2007 12:36:55 A.M. Central Standard Time, yahwehcommunity@yahoo.com writes:

Shalom Larry!
 
I am Very Sorry to hear your request to be removed from the Group.
 
Just for Arnold?!? Are not the other 100 Members / Families of the Group MORE IMPORTANT than him?!?
 
And I am sure that you can be very useful to everyone of them, with your important contributions, from time to time!
 
I would like to kindly ask you to remain subscribed to the Group, just to control what people (i.e., Arnold Bowen, for example) can write about what you said, and to be able to correct them, if you want, from time to time, if they mispresent you.
 
To prove my appreciation for your Scriptural Studies (even if I do not agree with all of them), I have added a Link to your Web Site, "Truth Seekers - Ponder Scripture" (www.ponderscripture.org) in The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA Web Site (www.thecommunityofyahweh.com). 
 
I would like to leave to you the final decision. So, if you want to stay subscribed to the Group, just don't do anything, and, instead, if you want to be removed from the Group, just click "unsubscribe", at the bottom of the e-mail.
 
No one, except me (as Group owner and moderator) will know your decision, if you are in or out of the Group (a smart way to remain in...).
 
May YAHWEH Bless you and yours!
 
True Love in YAHSHUA,
 
your brother Carlo Tognoni
 
Group owner and moderator
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
=================================================================================================
 
 


 
----- Original Message ----
From: "Seekutruth@aol.com" <Seekutruth@aol.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 11:17:24 PM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Request to be removed from list

Shalom, Arnold,
 
As you may recall from our three-year discussion in EliYah's Forums, one of the major points of conflict between you and me has been your persistent misrepresentations of the things I write.  Over nine months ago, I removed myself from having to put up with your mistaken paraphrases of what I believe (and have written), even though something tells me you've continued with the same when I'm not around to catch you at it. 
 
In this instance, once again, you have misrepresented me, and once again, I ask you to please stop.  Anyone who has read the study June and I wrote pertaining to the count to Pentecost knows that what you wrote, i.e., "Larry DON'T count 7 Sabbaths, he counts days period," is simply not true. 
 
According to the Septuagint, "And ye shall number to yourselves from the day after the sabbath, from the day on which ye shall offer the sheaf of the heave-offering, seven full WEEKS: until the morrow after the last WEEK ye shall number FIFTY DAYS, and shall bring a new meat-offering to YHWH."  This translation reflects the understanding of the Hebrew scholars who translated the Torah from Hebrew into Greek in the 3rd century BCE.  This was also the understanding of Philo, a contemporary of Yeshua, as well as the historian Josephus.  Not everyone agrees with the Septuagint's translation, and that's fine, but that's not my point here.  My point is, while we do count days, we don't "count days period," as you would have others believe.  As per the Septuagint translation, we also count weeks. 
 
June and I make it plain in our study that we respect the view of those who believe the count begins on the morrow after the weekly Sabbath, even though we do not agree.  Our study was not written to slam those with whom we disagree:  It was written as our response to those who make a point of letting us know that they believe our view is "wrong."  You are free to agree or disagree.  Until we are shown that our evidence is flawed, we will continue to count this way.  We aren't trying to dissuade anyone from continuing to practice the way they've been counting, but since we have (once again) been misrepresented, I will only state that we not only count days, as commanded, but we also count weeks for the same reason. 
 
As for the way you count to Pentecost (observing it in the fourth month of the Scriptural year), this is something we spent an inordinate amount of time discussing in EliYah's Forums, with both sides believing their respective view is correct.  No resolution came about during our three-year discussion, nor do I expect any resolution here.
 
Carlo, I would prefer to avoid further communication in this unfruitful manner, so I would like to officially request that my name and/or e-mail address be removed from this list.  However, anyone wishing to e-mail me privately, presuming they do so with the spirit of benevolence and integrity, is welcome to do so, and I will do my best to respond in a timely manner.  Thank you very much!
 
With love in Messiah,
Larry Acheson
 
In a message dated 11/24/2007 5:46:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, YHWHPeople@aol. com writes:

Again, what is the differance between Larry and a lunar sabbath keeper or anybody if they count 50 days from the 16th they will be on the same day.

Remember Larry DON'T count 7 Sabbaths, he counts days period. Ask him and he will tell you I am right and he count days not sabaths and anyone can do the same even lunar Sabbath keepers. I dont see why you cant see this simple FACT. ASK LARRY.

I forgot how to get to your web site to see what he wrote.

Brother Arnold


-----Original Message-----
From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 2:26 am
Subject: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Larry,

WHY did you change TWICE the text of my message, from '16th Day'
to '12th Day'???

In my message, included here bwlow (that can be read at Message # 877
in the Group's Message Archive), I wrote TWICE 'the 16th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 16th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 16th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

In Larry's reply (that can be read at Message # 878 in the Group's
Message Archive), my message, included after your reply, instead,
reads TWICE 'the 12th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

In a message dated 11/21/2007 2:32:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com writes:

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 12th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 12th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Larry, I really wonder WHY did you change the text of my message???

Waiting for your prompt reply and explanation.

Carlo Tognoni

Group owner and moderator

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
 
Check out AOL Money Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.

 



Check out AOL Money Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (7)
#900 From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@...>
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:52 pm
Subject: Re: Request to be removed from list 		yahwehcommunity
Send Email Send Email
 
Shalom Jeremiah!
 
This is a Public Forum, a Group of Discussion where anyone can subscribe and post Messages, that is, the corrispondent of a Public Place / Plaza, where anyone can speak and expose their ideas, and others can listen or not, and agree or not.
 
Yes, there is a specific target of the Discussions, and usually people interested in such Scriptural Issues would subscribe and partkake to this Group, but this Group of Discussion is NOT The Community / Congregation / Assembly / House of YAHWEH, otherwise there would be Scriptural Rules that would NOT let anyone to teach and spread heresies.
 
It is NOT my intention to transform this Group of Discussion into The Community / Congregation / Assembly / House of YAHWEH, because the Members of this Group of Discussion are mainly indipendent Believers who came out of "Churchity", just as myself, and they are FREE to expose and discuss here their points of view, opinions, and beliefs, without fear to be "excommunicated".
 
Of course, Brethren that would like to be Members of The Community of YAHWEH For The The Disciples of YAHWEH, and want to commit to be actively involved in The Work of YAHWEH are MOST WELCOME, but this Group of Discussion mainly is NOT composed of Members of The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA.
 
And the ONLY Rules in this Group of Discussion are those of Common Sense, to do not offend and personally attack other people, and very, very rarely I have banned someone from this Group of Discussion. 
 
Actually The Scriptures, that you have quoted, dear Jeremiah, should be seen in their FULL context, clearly showing that the Apostle Shaul (Paul) was speaking to Timothy and Titus, two Elders in The Community / Congregation / Assembly / House of YAHWEH, about what was occurring into It, and how they would have act, clearly referring to dissentions and heresies into The Community of the Believers, that some people were spreading and teaching there, for love of power and money!
 
Please, kindly read their FULL context:
 
1 Timothy 6:3-12 -
3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our King YAHSHUA MESSIYAH, and to the doctrine which is according to piety;   
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is piety: from such withdraw thyself.
6 But piety with contentment is great gain.
7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11 But thou, O man of YAHWEH, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, piety, faith, love, patience, meekness.
12 Fight the righteous fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a righteous profession before many witnesses.
 
Titus 3:9-11 -
9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the Law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
 
Said that, of course, anyone is FREE to actively partake or not to the Discussions of this Group, or to abstain from some or all the Discussions of this Group, or to read only the Messages, or even to unsubscribe, just as in a Public Place / Plaza, there are some people who speak and discuss, and usually the majority of people who listen, and someone who leaves, and goes away from there.
 
May YAHWEH Bless you and yours!
 
True Love in YAHSHUA,
 
your brother Carlo Tognoni
 
Group owner and moderator
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
=================================================================================================
 
 
 


----- Original Message ----
From: Mark A. Fredrick <mrsf@...>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 8:58:20 AM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Request to be removed from list

I understand why why you must leave. It is the same reason I don't participate much. I see the strife that arises.

1Ti 6:4  He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings.

1Ti 6:5  Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

1Ti 6:6  But godliness with contentment is great gain.

 

Tit 3:9  But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

 

Jeremiah




Seekutruth@aol. com wrote:

Shalom, Carlo,
 
Please understand that my decision to be removed from the group is not "just for Arnold," and no, the other members of the group are NOT more important than him.  I have met Arnold, and in spite of our tremendous differences, including other concerns that I prefer to not bring up here, I like him as a person and wish him no ill will.  Moreover, I believe each individual is equally important, so no one in this group is, in my estimation, more important than Arnold. 
 
I believe I sufficiently explained my reason for not wishing to participate in the e-mail I sent on 11/22/2007.  As I mentioned in that e-mail, I spent over three years in what I feel was a fruitless forum discussion with lunar sabbatarians (not just Arnold!), and quite frankly, I do not expect this discussion to be any different.  I also wrote, "Suffice it to say that my relationship with lunar sabbatarians did not improve as a result of participating in that forum.  Rather, it deteriorated.  Judging by the tone of the current discussion, nothing seems to have changed, including my desire to become involved in exchanges with lunar sabbatarians.  Based upon previous experience, I know that any exchanges I have with them will be counter-productive. " 
 
It may or may not help you to know that I have never claimed to be a teacher, preacher, prophet, rabbi, elder, or whatever other title man chooses to place upon himself.  I have always been, and I remain, a student of the Word ... a truth seeker.  As a student of the Word, I sometimes have my conclusions pertaining to Scripture challenged, and this is why I have chosen to compile the studies that appear on our web site.  Most of them were written in response to exchanges I have had with other believers over the years.  Thus, I regard most of our studies to be "responses" more than actual "studies," per se.
 
With all the above in mind, many of our "responses" to lunar sabbatarian claims may be found on our web site.  Eventually, Yahweh willing, all of our "responses" will be there for everyone to see.  In the meantime, if anyone of noble intentions has any questions, they are free to e-mail me privately.  As time allows, I will do my best to reply to any such inquiries.  As far as correcting the misrepresentations and mischaracterization s that lunar sabbatarians may choose to make about me and the things I have written, all I can say is, I am more concerned with regard to what Yahweh thinks about me than what man thinks about me.  He alone knows my heart.
 
Again, I appreciate the kind invitation to join this group, but I believe it would be best for me to not participate. 
 
May Yahweh bless you all!
 
Love in Messiah,
Larry
 
In a message dated 11/25/2007 12:36:55 A.M. Central Standard Time, yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com writes:

Shalom Larry!
 
I am Very Sorry to hear your request to be removed from the Group.
 
Just for Arnold?!? Are not the other 100 Members / Families of the Group MORE IMPORTANT than him?!?
 
And I am sure that you can be very useful to everyone of them, with your important contributions, from time to time!
 
I would like to kindly ask you to remain subscribed to the Group, just to control what people (i.e., Arnold Bowen, for example) can write about what you said, and to be able to correct them, if you want, from time to time, if they mispresent you.
 
To prove my appreciation for your Scriptural Studies (even if I do not agree with all of them), I have added a Link to your Web Site, "Truth Seekers - Ponder Scripture" (www.ponderscripture .org) in The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA Web Site (www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com). 
 
I would like to leave to you the final decision. So, if you want to stay subscribed to the Group, just don't do anything, and, instead, if you want to be removed from the Group, just click "unsubscribe" , at the bottom of the e-mail.
 
No one, except me (as Group owner and moderator) will know your decision, if you are in or out of the Group (a smart way to remain in...).
 
May YAHWEH Bless you and yours!
 
True Love in YAHSHUA,
 
your brother Carlo Tognoni
 
Group owner and moderator
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====
 
 


 
----- Original Message ----
From: "Seekutruth@ aol.com" <Seekutruth@aol. com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 11:17:24 PM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Request to be removed from list

Shalom, Arnold,
 
As you may recall from our three-year discussion in EliYah's Forums, one of the major points of conflict between you and me has been your persistent misrepresentations of the things I write.  Over nine months ago, I removed myself from having to put up with your mistaken paraphrases of what I believe (and have written), even though something tells me you've continued with the same when I'm not around to catch you at it. 
 
In this instance, once again, you have misrepresented me, and once again, I ask you to please stop.  Anyone who has read the study June and I wrote pertaining to the count to Pentecost knows that what you wrote, i.e., "Larry DON'T count 7 Sabbaths, he counts days period," is simply not true. 
 
According to the Septuagint, "And ye shall number to yourselves from the day after the sabbath, from the day on which ye shall offer the sheaf of the heave-offering, seven full WEEKS: until the morrow after the last WEEK ye shall number FIFTY DAYS, and shall bring a new meat-offering to YHWH."  This translation reflects the understanding of the Hebrew scholars who translated the Torah from Hebrew into Greek in the 3rd century BCE.  This was also the understanding of Philo, a contemporary of Yeshua, as well as the historian Josephus.  Not everyone agrees with the Septuagint's translation, and that's fine, but that's not my point here.  My point is, while we do count days, we don't "count days period," as you would have others believe.  As per the Septuagint translation, we also count weeks. 
 
June and I make it plain in our study that we respect the view of those who believe the count begins on the morrow after the weekly Sabbath, even though we do not agree.  Our study was not written to slam those with whom we disagree:  It was written as our response to those who make a point of letting us know that they believe our view is "wrong."  You are free to agree or disagree.  Until we are shown that our evidence is flawed, we will continue to count this way.  We aren't trying to dissuade anyone from continuing to practice the way they've been counting, but since we have (once again) been misrepresented, I will only state that we not only count days, as commanded, but we also count weeks for the same reason. 
 
As for the way you count to Pentecost (observing it in the fourth month of the Scriptural year), this is something we spent an inordinate amount of time discussing in EliYah's Forums, with both sides believing their respective view is correct.  No resolution came about during our three-year discussion, nor do I expect any resolution here.
 
Carlo, I would prefer to avoid further communication in this unfruitful manner, so I would like to officially request that my name and/or e-mail address be removed from this list.  However, anyone wishing to e-mail me privately, presuming they do so with the spirit of benevolence and integrity, is welcome to do so, and I will do my best to respond in a timely manner.  Thank you very much!
 
With love in Messiah,
Larry Acheson
 
In a message dated 11/24/2007 5:46:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, YHWHPeople@aol. com writes:

Again, what is the differance between Larry and a lunar sabbath keeper or anybody if they count 50 days from the 16th they will be on the same day.

Remember Larry DON'T count 7 Sabbaths, he counts days period. Ask him and he will tell you I am right and he count days not sabaths and anyone can do the same even lunar Sabbath keepers. I dont see why you cant see this simple FACT. ASK LARRY.

I forgot how to get to your web site to see what he wrote.

Brother Arnold


-----Original Message-----
From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 2:26 am
Subject: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Larry,

WHY did you change TWICE the text of my message, from '16th Day'
to '12th Day'???

In my message, included here bwlow (that can be read at Message # 877
in the Group's Message Archive), I wrote TWICE 'the 16th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 16th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 16th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

In Larry's reply (that can be read at Message # 878 in the Group's
Message Archive), my message, included after your reply, instead,
reads TWICE 'the 12th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

In a message dated 11/21/2007 2:32:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com writes:

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 12th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 12th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Larry, I really wonder WHY did you change the text of my message???

Waiting for your prompt reply and explanation.

Carlo Tognoni

Group owner and moderator

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
 
Check out AOL Money Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.

 



Check out AOL Money Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.


Reply | Messages in this Topic (7)
#901 From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@...>
Date: Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:17 pm
Subject: Re: Request to be removed from list 		yahwehcommunity
Send Email Send Email
 
Shalom again Jeremiah, and Everyone!
 
To see the DIFFERENCE between a Public Forum, a Group of Discussion where anyone can subscribe and post Messages, that is, the corrispondent of a Public Place / Plaza, where anyone can speak and expose their ideas and beliefs, and others can listen or not, and agree or not, AND The Community / Congregation / Assembly / House of YAHWEH, where there would be Scriptural Rules that would NOT let anyone to teach and spread heresies, you can read what YAHSHUA, and then His Apostles, said in Public Places / Plazas, in The Temple, and in the Synagogues, and all the discussions, and dissentions that came out.
 
Mattithyah / Matthew Chapter 23, and Acts Chapters 4 and 18 are very syntomatic!
 
What I read is that YAHSHUA, and then His Apostles, were VERY DIFFERENT from some hypocrites and cowards, that hide themselves and their ideas and beliefs, and/or keep them for themselves, believing to be more "Holy" than the other "common" people!
 
The TRUE Witness of The Message of The Reign of YAHWEH (Mattithyah / Matthew 24:14) is NOT just to broadcast radio or tv programs, and/or to distribute free publications, as someone erroneously believe!
 
It is A LOT MORE!!!
 
It is to be actively and personally involved in The Work of YAHWEH, just as YAHSHUA, and His Apostles, were, even putting at risk their own lives for Love of The Truth!
 
Is that not just what YAHSHUA said? Mattithyah / Matthew Chapter 25!
 
May YAHWEH Bless you and yours!
 
True Love in YAHSHUA,
 
your brother Carlo Tognoni
 
Group owner and moderator
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
=================================================================================================
 
 
 


----- Original Message ----
From: Mark A. Fredrick <mrsf@...>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 8:58:20 AM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Request to be removed from list

I understand why why you must leave. It is the same reason I don't participate much. I see the strife that arises.

1Ti 6:4  He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings.

1Ti 6:5  Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

1Ti 6:6  But godliness with contentment is great gain.

 

Tit 3:9  But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

 

Jeremiah




Seekutruth@aol. com wrote:

Shalom, Carlo,
 
Please understand that my decision to be removed from the group is not "just for Arnold," and no, the other members of the group are NOT more important than him.  I have met Arnold, and in spite of our tremendous differences, including other concerns that I prefer to not bring up here, I like him as a person and wish him no ill will.  Moreover, I believe each individual is equally important, so no one in this group is, in my estimation, more important than Arnold. 
 
I believe I sufficiently explained my reason for not wishing to participate in the e-mail I sent on 11/22/2007.  As I mentioned in that e-mail, I spent over three years in what I feel was a fruitless forum discussion with lunar sabbatarians (not just Arnold!), and quite frankly, I do not expect this discussion to be any different.  I also wrote, "Suffice it to say that my relationship with lunar sabbatarians did not improve as a result of participating in that forum.  Rather, it deteriorated.  Judging by the tone of the current discussion, nothing seems to have changed, including my desire to become involved in exchanges with lunar sabbatarians.  Based upon previous experience, I know that any exchanges I have with them will be counter-productive. " 
 
It may or may not help you to know that I have never claimed to be a teacher, preacher, prophet, rabbi, elder, or whatever other title man chooses to place upon himself.  I have always been, and I remain, a student of the Word ... a truth seeker.  As a student of the Word, I sometimes have my conclusions pertaining to Scripture challenged, and this is why I have chosen to compile the studies that appear on our web site.  Most of them were written in response to exchanges I have had with other believers over the years.  Thus, I regard most of our studies to be "responses" more than actual "studies," per se.
 
With all the above in mind, many of our "responses" to lunar sabbatarian claims may be found on our web site.  Eventually, Yahweh willing, all of our "responses" will be there for everyone to see.  In the meantime, if anyone of noble intentions has any questions, they are free to e-mail me privately.  As time allows, I will do my best to reply to any such inquiries.  As far as correcting the misrepresentations and mischaracterization s that lunar sabbatarians may choose to make about me and the things I have written, all I can say is, I am more concerned with regard to what Yahweh thinks about me than what man thinks about me.  He alone knows my heart.
 
Again, I appreciate the kind invitation to join this group, but I believe it would be best for me to not participate. 
 
May Yahweh bless you all!
 
Love in Messiah,
Larry
 
In a message dated 11/25/2007 12:36:55 A.M. Central Standard Time, yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com writes:

Shalom Larry!
 
I am Very Sorry to hear your request to be removed from the Group.
 
Just for Arnold?!? Are not the other 100 Members / Families of the Group MORE IMPORTANT than him?!?
 
And I am sure that you can be very useful to everyone of them, with your important contributions, from time to time!
 
I would like to kindly ask you to remain subscribed to the Group, just to control what people (i.e., Arnold Bowen, for example) can write about what you said, and to be able to correct them, if you want, from time to time, if they mispresent you.
 
To prove my appreciation for your Scriptural Studies (even if I do not agree with all of them), I have added a Link to your Web Site, "Truth Seekers - Ponder Scripture" (www.ponderscripture .org) in The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA Web Site (www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com). 
 
I would like to leave to you the final decision. So, if you want to stay subscribed to the Group, just don't do anything, and, instead, if you want to be removed from the Group, just click "unsubscribe" , at the bottom of the e-mail.
 
No one, except me (as Group owner and moderator) will know your decision, if you are in or out of the Group (a smart way to remain in...).
 
May YAHWEH Bless you and yours!
 
True Love in YAHSHUA,
 
your brother Carlo Tognoni
 
Group owner and moderator
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====
 
 


 
----- Original Message ----
From: "Seekutruth@ aol.com" <Seekutruth@aol. com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 11:17:24 PM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Request to be removed from list

Shalom, Arnold,
 
As you may recall from our three-year discussion in EliYah's Forums, one of the major points of conflict between you and me has been your persistent misrepresentations of the things I write.  Over nine months ago, I removed myself from having to put up with your mistaken paraphrases of what I believe (and have written), even though something tells me you've continued with the same when I'm not around to catch you at it. 
 
In this instance, once again, you have misrepresented me, and once again, I ask you to please stop.  Anyone who has read the study June and I wrote pertaining to the count to Pentecost knows that what you wrote, i.e., "Larry DON'T count 7 Sabbaths, he counts days period," is simply not true. 
 
According to the Septuagint, "And ye shall number to yourselves from the day after the sabbath, from the day on which ye shall offer the sheaf of the heave-offering, seven full WEEKS: until the morrow after the last WEEK ye shall number FIFTY DAYS, and shall bring a new meat-offering to YHWH."  This translation reflects the understanding of the Hebrew scholars who translated the Torah from Hebrew into Greek in the 3rd century BCE.  This was also the understanding of Philo, a contemporary of Yeshua, as well as the historian Josephus.  Not everyone agrees with the Septuagint's translation, and that's fine, but that's not my point here.  My point is, while we do count days, we don't "count days period," as you would have others believe.  As per the Septuagint translation, we also count weeks. 
 
June and I make it plain in our study that we respect the view of those who believe the count begins on the morrow after the weekly Sabbath, even though we do not agree.  Our study was not written to slam those with whom we disagree:  It was written as our response to those who make a point of letting us know that they believe our view is "wrong."  You are free to agree or disagree.  Until we are shown that our evidence is flawed, we will continue to count this way.  We aren't trying to dissuade anyone from continuing to practice the way they've been counting, but since we have (once again) been misrepresented, I will only state that we not only count days, as commanded, but we also count weeks for the same reason. 
 
As for the way you count to Pentecost (observing it in the fourth month of the Scriptural year), this is something we spent an inordinate amount of time discussing in EliYah's Forums, with both sides believing their respective view is correct.  No resolution came about during our three-year discussion, nor do I expect any resolution here.
 
Carlo, I would prefer to avoid further communication in this unfruitful manner, so I would like to officially request that my name and/or e-mail address be removed from this list.  However, anyone wishing to e-mail me privately, presuming they do so with the spirit of benevolence and integrity, is welcome to do so, and I will do my best to respond in a timely manner.  Thank you very much!
 
With love in Messiah,
Larry Acheson
 
In a message dated 11/24/2007 5:46:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, YHWHPeople@aol. com writes:

Again, what is the differance between Larry and a lunar sabbath keeper or anybody if they count 50 days from the 16th they will be on the same day.

Remember Larry DON'T count 7 Sabbaths, he counts days period. Ask him and he will tell you I am right and he count days not sabaths and anyone can do the same even lunar Sabbath keepers. I dont see why you cant see this simple FACT. ASK LARRY.

I forgot how to get to your web site to see what he wrote.

Brother Arnold


-----Original Message-----
From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 2:26 am
Subject: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Larry,

WHY did you change TWICE the text of my message, from '16th Day'
to '12th Day'???

In my message, included here bwlow (that can be read at Message # 877
in the Group's Message Archive), I wrote TWICE 'the 16th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 16th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 16th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

In Larry's reply (that can be read at Message # 878 in the Group's
Message Archive), my message, included after your reply, instead,
reads TWICE 'the 12th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

In a message dated 11/21/2007 2:32:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com writes:

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 12th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 12th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Larry, I really wonder WHY did you change the text of my message???

Waiting for your prompt reply and explanation.

Carlo Tognoni

Group owner and moderator

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
 
Check out AOL Money Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.

 



Check out AOL Money Finance's list of the hottest products and top money wasters of 2007.


Reply | Messages in this Topic (7)
#902 From: "Nico Du Toit" <dtoitnj@...>
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:06 am
Subject: Question on day begining 		dtoitnj@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Why do you say a day begins with sunrise ?
 
Nico
 
Sinai

>>> On 11/25/2007 at 8:18 AM, in message <835278.74292.qm@...>, The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@...> wrote:

Arnold,
 
sorry, but actually we do NOT agree even when a Scriptural New Moon / Month begins, because, even if both of us believe that the monthly Conjunction between Sun and Moon is the New Moon, marking the beginning of the Scriptural Month, very often we begin the Month on DIFFERENT Days, because you (erroneously from my point of view) believe that the Day begins from the Sunset / Dark, and I believe that the Day begins from the Dawn / Sunrise, so that very often what I believe to be the First Day of the Month would be your Second Day of the Month, because you (erroneously from my point of view) begin the Day from the Night before.
 
About the count to Pentecost, I already told you that to simply count 50 Days, OF COURSE, is TIMELY the SAME for EVERYONE, but, because of your lunar sabbath doctrine, your count of 50 Days, including your "extended sabbaths", will end on the SAME TIME, but on DIFFERENT Days of the Week, and with MORE Sabbaths passed than Larry's, and CONTRARY to The Scriptures.
 
May YAHWEH Open your mind and heart to Understand It!
 
In YAHSHUA's Name,
 
Carlo Tognoni
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
=================================================================================================
 


 
----- Original Message ----
From: "YHWHPeople@aol.com" <YHWHPeople@aol.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 11:30:15 PM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Shalom Brother Carlo,

I am glad we can at least agree on one thing and that is when a scriptural New moon/month begins.

I don't know of another way to explain it to you about counting to Pentecost other than it don't matter how or which Sabbath you keep, if you count 50 days beginning on the 16th, you will wind up at the same place 50 days later, no matter who you are. And that is the way Larry counts to Pentecost. He does not pay any attention to New moon days OR SABBATHS, he just counts to 50, and anyone else can do the same no matter which Sabbath they keep. Please ask him and he will tell you that, he is not that deceitful.

I do not agree with his count except the beginning on the 16th which is in harmony with Philo, Josephus and the Septuagint, not to mention scripture.

Unlike Brother Larry, I count 7 Sabbaths complete even unto the morrow after the 7th Sabbath and then I number 50 days and then bring a new meat offering from my summer wheat harvest. See http://lunarsabbath .info/_wsn/ page4.html 



-----Original Message-----
From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 8:36 pm
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Arnold,
 
I guess I am not able to explain it clearly (you know, English is NOT my mother tongue, that is ITALIAN...), or you are not able, or you do not want to understand it.
 
Even a little child would understand that 50 days after the SAME day would TIMELY end on the SAME day, but, OF COURSE, that is NOT the point in discussion!
 
Let me try to explain it in another way...
 
Larry counts from the 16th, and he counts seven Weeks of 7 Days Each (that is, 49 Days), giving the meaning of 'Weeks' to the word 'Sabbaths' to count, and, on the 50 Day, his count ends on the SAME Day of the Week of when his count began, usually after Seven Sabbaths are passed (with a "strange" case, Proving that counting in such way is Scripturally erroneous, if the 16th falls on a Seventh Day Sabbath, in which the count ends on a Seventh Day Sabbath, that should be "the Day after the Seven Sabbath", with EIGHT Sabbaths passed?!?).
 
Instead, you, lunar sabbatarians, if you count 50 days from the 16th (that, for you, is ALWAYS on the first day of the week), you timely (OF COURSE!) end on the same day that Larry's count ends, but, for you, it is NOT the SAME Day of the Week that you have begun your count, and NINE sabbaths are passed (including your "extended sabbaths" at the end of your lunar month, since they are counted in such count of 50 days, otherwise, if you skip your "extended sabbaths", you can have seven "regular" sabbaths, but your count would end 2 or 3 days later)!?!
 
Instead, The Scriptures CLEARLY say that the count to Pentecost BEGINS on the Day After the Sabbath, and it ENDS on the Day After the Seventh Sabbath, 50 Days later, so that the count has to BEGIN and END on the SAME Day of the Week, AFTER Seven Sabbaths, NO MATTER WHAT!
 
So that the count of the lunar sabbatarians, ANYWAY, even using Larry's method, and TIMELY ending on the SAME day, is WRONG, because falling in a DIFFERENT day of the week than when it began, and after NINE sabbaths!
 
IS THAT FINALLY CLEAR??? I hope so....
 
 
About how to geto to our web site, to see what Larry wrote, if you mean the web site of The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group (since his Scriptural Study is NOT yet on the web site of The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA), you can go to http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/TheTrueSab bathsAndNewMoons / , and then click on "Messages" on the top left, just under "Home", and go to Messages # 846, # 847, # 848, # 849, where his Scriptural Study "Something Different: Lunar Sabbaths" was posted.
 
Or you can read it directly at his web site, at  http://www.pondersc ripture.org/ lunarsabbintro. htm .
 
May YAHWEH Open your mind and heart to Understand that you are teaching an HERESY!
 
In YAHSHUA's Name,
 
Carlo Tognoni
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====
 
 
 
 


----- Original Message ----
From: "YHWHPeople@ aol.com" <YHWHPeople@aol. com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 5:45:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Again, what is the differance between Larry and a lunar sabbath keeper or anybody if they count 50 days from the 16th they will be on the same day.

Remember Larry DON'T count 7 Sabbaths, he counts days period. Ask him and he will tell you I am right and he count days not sabaths and anyone can do the same even lunar Sabbath keepers. I dont see why you cant see this simple FACT. ASK LARRY.

I forgot how to get to your web site to see what he wrote.

Brother Arnold


-----Original Message-----
From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 2:26 am
Subject: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Larry,

WHY did you change TWICE the text of my message, from '16th Day'
to '12th Day'???

In my message, included here bwlow (that can be read at Message # 877
in the Group's Message Archive), I wrote TWICE 'the 16th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 16th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 16th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

In Larry's reply (that can be read at Message # 878 in the Group's
Message Archive), my message, included after your reply, instead,
reads TWICE 'the 12th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

In a message dated 11/21/2007 2:32:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com writes:

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 12th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 12th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Larry, I really wonder WHY did you change the text of my message???

Waiting for your prompt reply and explanation.

Carlo Tognoni

Group owner and moderator

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!



Reply | Messages in this Topic (9)
#903 From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@...>
Date: Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:59 pm
Subject: Re: Question on day begining 		yahwehcommunity
Send Email Send Email
 
Shalom Nico!
 
About your question, I said that a Day begins with Dawn / Sunrise simply because I believe it, and it is Scripturally so!
 
In simple words, YAHWEH Called the Light DAY, when HE separated / divided the Light from the Darkness, that HE Called Night (Genesis 1:3-5; 14-18), and YAHSHUA Said that there are 12 Hours of Light in the DAY, after which the Night comes (Yahchanan / John 9:4-5; 11:9-10), that is, the DAY is 12 Hours of Light Time, running from Dawn (with visible Sign in the Sky at Sunrise) to Dusk (with visible Sign in the Sky at Sunset), after which the Night comes, the Darkness Time, running from Dark to Dawn.
 
So that:
1- the Day runs from Dawn to Dusk, during 12 Scriptural Hours of Light;
2- the Daily Cycle, from a Day to the Next Day, runs from Dawn to Dawn.
 
Please, kindly check the Messages of the Group, clicking on "Messages", on the top left, in the Home Page of the Group, and read the Messages related to this Subject, to have all the details.
 
Or you can read the Scriptural Articles on this Subject on The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA Web Site, at www.thecommunityofyahweh.com .
 
May YAHWEH Bless your Understanding of It!
 
True Love in YAHSHUA,
 
Carlo Tognoni
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
=================================================================================================
 


 
----- Original Message ----
From: Nico Du Toit <dtoitnj@...>
To: The@...
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 2:06:09 AM
Subject: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Question on day begining

Why do you say a day begins with sunrise ?
 
Nico
 
Sinai

>>> On 11/25/2007 at 8:18 AM, in message <835278.74292. qm@web33506. mail.mud. yahoo.com>, The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com> wrote:

Arnold,
 
sorry, but actually we do NOT agree even when a Scriptural New Moon / Month begins, because, even if both of us believe that the monthly Conjunction between Sun and Moon is the New Moon, marking the beginning of the Scriptural Month, very often we begin the Month on DIFFERENT Days, because you (erroneously from my point of view) believe that the Day begins from the Sunset / Dark, and I believe that the Day begins from the Dawn / Sunrise, so that very often what I believe to be the First Day of the Month would be your Second Day of the Month, because you (erroneously from my point of view) begin the Day from the Night before.
 
About the count to Pentecost, I already told you that to simply count 50 Days, OF COURSE, is TIMELY the SAME for EVERYONE, but, because of your lunar sabbath doctrine, your count of 50 Days, including your "extended sabbaths", will end on the SAME TIME, but on DIFFERENT Days of the Week, and with MORE Sabbaths passed than Larry's, and CONTRARY to The Scriptures.
 
May YAHWEH Open your mind and heart to Understand It!
 
In YAHSHUA's Name,
 
Carlo Tognoni
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====
 


 
----- Original Message ----
From: "YHWHPeople@ aol.com" <YHWHPeople@aol. com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 11:30:15 PM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Shalom Brother Carlo,

I am glad we can at least agree on one thing and that is when a scriptural New moon/month begins.

I don't know of another way to explain it to you about counting to Pentecost other than it don't matter how or which Sabbath you keep, if you count 50 days beginning on the 16th, you will wind up at the same place 50 days later, no matter who you are. And that is the way Larry counts to Pentecost. He does not pay any attention to New moon days OR SABBATHS, he just counts to 50, and anyone else can do the same no matter which Sabbath they keep. Please ask him and he will tell you that, he is not that deceitful.

I do not agree with his count except the beginning on the 16th which is in harmony with Philo, Josephus and the Septuagint, not to mention scripture.

Unlike Brother Larry, I count 7 Sabbaths complete even unto the morrow after the 7th Sabbath and then I number 50 days and then bring a new meat offering from my summer wheat harvest. See http://lunarsabbath .info/_wsn/ page4.html 



-----Original Message-----
From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 8:36 pm
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Arnold,
 
I guess I am not able to explain it clearly (you know, English is NOT my mother tongue, that is ITALIAN...), or you are not able, or you do not want to understand it.
 
Even a little child would understand that 50 days after the SAME day would TIMELY end on the SAME day, but, OF COURSE, that is NOT the point in discussion!
 
Let me try to explain it in another way...
 
Larry counts from the 16th, and he counts seven Weeks of 7 Days Each (that is, 49 Days), giving the meaning of 'Weeks' to the word 'Sabbaths' to count, and, on the 50 Day, his count ends on the SAME Day of the Week of when his count began, usually after Seven Sabbaths are passed (with a "strange" case, Proving that counting in such way is Scripturally erroneous, if the 16th falls on a Seventh Day Sabbath, in which the count ends on a Seventh Day Sabbath, that should be "the Day after the Seven Sabbath", with EIGHT Sabbaths passed?!?).
 
Instead, you, lunar sabbatarians, if you count 50 days from the 16th (that, for you, is ALWAYS on the first day of the week), you timely (OF COURSE!) end on the same day that Larry's count ends, but, for you, it is NOT the SAME Day of the Week that you have begun your count, and NINE sabbaths are passed (including your "extended sabbaths" at the end of your lunar month, since they are counted in such count of 50 days, otherwise, if you skip your "extended sabbaths", you can have seven "regular" sabbaths, but your count would end 2 or 3 days later)!?!
 
Instead, The Scriptures CLEARLY say that the count to Pentecost BEGINS on the Day After the Sabbath, and it ENDS on the Day After the Seventh Sabbath, 50 Days later, so that the count has to BEGIN and END on the SAME Day of the Week, AFTER Seven Sabbaths, NO MATTER WHAT!
 
So that the count of the lunar sabbatarians, ANYWAY, even using Larry's method, and TIMELY ending on the SAME day, is WRONG, because falling in a DIFFERENT day of the week than when it began, and after NINE sabbaths!
 
IS THAT FINALLY CLEAR??? I hope so....
 
 
About how to geto to our web site, to see what Larry wrote, if you mean the web site of The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group (since his Scriptural Study is NOT yet on the web site of The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA), you can go to http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/TheTrueSab bathsAndNewMoons / , and then click on "Messages" on the top left, just under "Home", and go to Messages # 846, # 847, # 848, # 849, where his Scriptural Study "Something Different: Lunar Sabbaths" was posted.
 
Or you can read it directly at his web site, at  http://www.pondersc ripture.org/ lunarsabbintro. htm .
 
May YAHWEH Open your mind and heart to Understand that you are teaching an HERESY!
 
In YAHSHUA's Name,
 
Carlo Tognoni
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====
 
 
 
 


----- Original Message ----
From: "YHWHPeople@ aol.com" <YHWHPeople@aol. com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 5:45:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Again, what is the differance between Larry and a lunar sabbath keeper or anybody if they count 50 days from the 16th they will be on the same day.

Remember Larry DON'T count 7 Sabbaths, he counts days period. Ask him and he will tell you I am right and he count days not sabaths and anyone can do the same even lunar Sabbath keepers. I dont see why you cant see this simple FACT. ASK LARRY.

I forgot how to get to your web site to see what he wrote.

Brother Arnold


-----Original Message-----
From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 2:26 am
Subject: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Larry,

WHY did you change TWICE the text of my message, from '16th Day'
to '12th Day'???

In my message, included here bwlow (that can be read at Message # 877
in the Group's Message Archive), I wrote TWICE 'the 16th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 16th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 16th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

In Larry's reply (that can be read at Message # 878 in the Group's
Message Archive), my message, included after your reply, instead,
reads TWICE 'the 12th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

In a message dated 11/21/2007 2:32:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com writes:

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 12th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 12th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Larry, I really wonder WHY did you change the text of my message???

Waiting for your prompt reply and explanation.

Carlo Tognoni

Group owner and moderator

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!




Reply | Messages in this Topic (9)
#904 From: Tracy Norton <tracy6005@...>
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:27 am
Subject: Re: In Support of Crescent Observers 		tracy6005
Send Email Send Email
 

Shalum Olyichem,


John, I believe you need provide better proof to your belief that Crescent Moon Observance is evil and Conjunction Moon Observance is scriptural.  Just because you quote scriptural verses out of context does not invalidate Crescent Moon Observance and justify Conjunction Moon Observance.  My response is in bold blue...


Crescent Moon

"The beginning of months (new moon, freshening of the Moled, yerah hodes) occurs at the head / first of each lunar month. Some observe the beginning of the month when they see the first visible light of the crescent moon. Yahweh warns us not to lift up our eyes unto heaven to worship and serve the sun, moon, stars and all of the celestials in the second expanse. Deu4:19, "


Just because a man looks at the sun and the moon and the stars does not mean that he is worshipping them. 

  • And Alhyim saw the light, that [it was] good: and Alhyim divided the light from the darkness. -- Genesis 1:4
So according to your reasoning, when Yahweh saw the light, I guess you assume he was worshipping the light also?  Yahweh forbid!

[14] And Alhyim said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

[15] And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

[16] And Alhyim made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: the stars also.   -- Isaiah 1:13-14

I believe that Yahweh wanted us to look at the sun and the moon and the stars to for signs and for seasons and for days and for years.  And the sons of Yishrael were able to distinguish between observing and worshipping them.  Therefore, you want me to believe that whenever I and the sons of Yishrael observe a Crescent New Moon that we are accused of worshipping the moon?!  But when you and others observe a Conjunction New Moon then you want us to believe that you are not worshipping but just observing?  Surely, you jest.


[ And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; ] -- Isaiah 17:3


Again, you are confusing the word "observing" with the word "worshipping".  Yes, many men of Yishrael actually worshipped the sun, moon, and stars; but at the same time many Yishraeli's observed the sun, moon, and stars to determine the signs, season, days, and years. 


[5] And he put down the idolatrous priests, whom the kings of Yahudah had ordained to burn incense in the high places in the cities of Yahudah , and in the places round about Yerushalem; them also that burned incense unto B'ol, to the sun, and to the moon, and to the planets, and to all the host of heaven.  -- 2 Kings 23:5.


Again, you are confusing the word "observing" with the word "worshipping".   These idolatrous priests observed AND worshipped them.  And these verses did not indicated whether they worshipped the moon at conjunction, or crescent, or full, or half phases of the moon.  You are assuming that they only worshipped the moon at the crescent phase only. 


"After Moshe and Yahshua hit the dust/sleep with their fathers, then the people are following the "moon". Yahweh clearly tells us not to lift up our eyes to the celestials/cresent moon, but the religions of the world look/worship to the crescent "moon" to start its "months"."


[19] And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, [even] all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.  -- Deuteronomy 4:19


Noticed that Yahweh said that they be driven to worship them.  The emphasis is placed on worshipping and serving them and not on seeing them. 


"Yahweh has said that the whole world is deceived. "


True, but he did not said that the whole world is deceived into worshipping the sun, moon, and stars.  Surely, there were prophets, priests, and other remnants of both the sons of Yishrael and sons of Adam that were walking the narrow road like Noach, Abraham, Yusep, and David.  These qdshym knew the difference on how to observe them and not worship them.


"New moon crescents were hung from the necks of camels of the kings of Midian. Jud8:21, 26-27 Yahweh told Israel not to adopt the pagan religious practices of the nations around them. "


You are reading your words into The Holy Scriptures:  These verses did not indicate that the Midians worshipped the ornaments that hung on the camels' necks.  Are you saying that their ornaments are evidence that they "worshipped" and not just "observed" the moon?  If you believed they did, then you should restate your statements as "I believe" instead of "This definitely worshipped the moon".  I see just jewelry like crown, rings, and bracelets:  Which could be just only decorations.   You proof is conjecture and lacking as best. 


"Don't be dismayed at the signs of the sky/heavens, for nations are dismayed at them. Jer10:2-3; "


[2] Thus saith YAHWEH, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
[3] For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.  -- Yirmyahu 10:2-3


Again, John, you are taking the above verses out of context when you quote it to me.  Because, we are not "dismayed" at the signs of the heavens, when we "observed" the new moon crescent in marking the beginning of each month.  "Dismayed" is not "observed" otherwise every son of Adam would be guilty of sin (including Yahshuo the Mashiach) if observing the lights are a sin.  But blessed be Yahshuo H'Mshiach and blessed be the sons of Yishrael that they know that observing the lights in the heavens is not a sin;  it is when you worship and serve them that makes it a sin.  Also, I am not cutting down a tree and making it into an idol when I observe the sun, moon, and stars for signs, seasons, days, and years. 


"Deu4:16-20 "

[16] Lest ye corrupt [yourselves], and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,
We don't make graven images when we are commanded to observe the sun, moon, and stars according to Genesis 1.


[17] The likeness of any beast that [is] on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air,
We don't make beast images when we are commanded to observe the sun, moon, and stars according to Genesis 1.


[18] The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that [is] in the waters beneath the earth:
We don't make creeping or fish images when we are commanded to observe the sun, moon, and stars according to Genesis 1.


[19] And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, [even] all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which YAHWEH thy Alhyim hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.
When we lift up our eyes and see the sun, and the moon, and the stars; we only OBSERVE them and we are not DRIVEN to WORSHIP them nor SERVE them according the commandment in Genesis 1. 


[20] But YAHWEH hath taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, [even] out of Miztryim, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as [ye are] this day.
HallelYah!  As a grafted wild olive branch, I am humble and grateful for my Father in Heaven, that is Yahweh for bringing us Guyim out of the furnance and unto His inheritance -- The Sons of Yishrael through Yahushuo The Messiah!  And we honor him by observing the sun, moon, and stars in order to keep the TRUE signs, season, days, and years (so says Genesis 1).


"In that day Yahweh will take away the ornament of anklets, and the little suns and crescents. Isa3:18 "

Once again, you are taking the above verse (Isaiah 3:18) out of context!  Yahweh is taking away these ornaments because the wicked oppressors "have eaten up they vineyard; the spoil of the poor [is] in your houses"!  Moreover, Yahweh took away ALL jewelry and beautiful clothing which includes rings, bracelets, mufflers, suits of apparel, wimples, crisping pins, fine linen, glasses, vails, and hoods.  And he turned the daughters of Tziun beauty into sackcloth and baldness.  because of their haughtiness and oppression.  Isaiah 3:18 has nothing to do with observing the Crescent New Moon in order to determine each month!


"We should follow Job's example and not acknowledge anything pagan. He put Yahweh first in his life and he wasn't going to change. Job42:8-17 "

So should you put away observing New Moon Conjunction (or any Moon Observance) since what you do may be considered pagan?  As for me, I know that observing the Crescent New Moon for signs and months does not means I am observing a pagan ritual.  I believe you have no proof but I ask you to provide proof nevertheless that this practice is pagan and yours is not.  We put Yahweh first like Ayub (Job) because we keep the true signs, months, seasons, days, and years by observing these lights.


"Yahweh puts an end to those who do the feasts, new moons and sabbaths incorrectly. He hates their festivals which are done wrong. Hos2:11; Amo5:21-22 "

Like a broken record, you are reading in the verses of Hosea 2:11 that these sinners did what we today are doing.  Husho prophesied and Yishrael and against Yahudah that they committed whoredom against Yahweh!  This whoredom is following other alhyims which could have been anything -- in the heavens, earth, and sea!  You don't know which because Husho did not specify the idols.  Therefore you should not make assumptions that he was talking about observing the new moon because no where did he say this.  Note that he hated their shabaths; I wonder what they were doing to cause Yahweh to hate their shbaths?  Ditto for Amos 5:21-22!  He hated their feasts and sacrifices!  Was it because of Crescent New Moon observance?  Was it Conjunction New Moon observance that cause him to hate their sabbath observance?


"Names of the crescent moon, crescent necklaces, moon ornaments,  tinkling ornaments, magic charms, little suns, and round tires like the moon. Blow the ram's horn at the time of the freshening of the moled, and at the full moon. Psa81:3 (From this we can understand that the moons cycle is split in half, one part begins when the moon is dark at its conjunction and the other half incepts when the moon is full. A crescent moon does not fit.)"


According to your reasoning, then blowing the shofar on the new moon is a pagan practice and idolatry; because in order for Yishrael to blow the shupar, they first have to see (observe) the moon (be it crescent or conjunction -- it doesn't matter).  Be we know that observing the new moon and blowing the shupar is not a sin but a commandment as says YAHWEH The ALHYIM in the book of Genesis 1:14. 

Where is your evidence that crescent new moon observance is only an act of worshipping the moon.  And where is your evidence of  conjunction  (or any other  kind) of moon observance is never a act of worshipping the moon?

I am just curious why you are not guilty of being "dismayed at the signs of heavens"  when you count the Omer, or observe Yum Teruoh, or Sabbath days.  Because in order to blow the trumpet or count the Omer, or observe the sabbath you have to SEE (that is, OBSERVE) the sun, moon, and stars; if you were living in the  days before the year 1 CE, years before the anti-Christ Roman Emporer Constantine II outlawed the observance of the new moons (regardless of the phase).
 
Shalum Olyichem,

Sergeant Tracy Norton
aka "Gabriel"
U. S. Army
Fort Carson, Colorado


----- Original Message ----
From: "john.a.perry@..." <john.a.perry@...>
To: tracy6005@...
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 10:46:27 AM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] In Support of Crescent Observers

Hi Tracy,

I thought I would add in my two cents worth. I do not like to look to the crescent moon to determine the beginning of a moled, see notes below. Of late, I go with the evening twilight prior to the conjunction of the earth, moon and sun. The following is a minor amount of info I put together on crescent moon's.

I will not try to change your point of view as you will not try to change mine, but we can each offer why we currently do what it is we do.

I hope this helps, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Yahanan

Crescent Moon

The beginning of months (new moon, freshening of the Moled, yerah hodes) occurs at the head / first of each lunar month. Some observe the beginning of the month when they see the first visible light of the crescent moon. Yahweh warns us not to lift up our eyes unto heaven to worship and serve the sun, moon, stars and all of the celestials in the second expanse. Deu4:19, 17:3; Isa1:13-14; 2Kin23:5. After Moshe and Yahshua hit the dust/sleep with their fathers, then the people are following the "moon". Yahweh clearly tells us not to lift up our eyes to the celestials/cresent moon, but the religions of the world look/worship to the crescent "moon" to start its "months". Yahweh has said that the whole world is deceived. New moon crescents were hung from the necks of camels of the kings of Midian. Jud8:21, 26-27 Yahweh told Israel not to adopt the pagan religious practices of the nations around them. Don't be dismayed at the signs of the sky/heavens, for nations are dismayed at them. Jer10:2-3; Deu4:16-20 In that day Yahweh will take away the ornament of anklets, and the little suns and crescents. Isa3:18 We should follow Job's example and not acknowledge anything pagan. He put Yahweh first in his life and he wasn't going to change. Job42:8-17 Yahweh puts an end to those who do the feasts, new moons and sabbaths incorrectly. He hates their festivals which are done wrong. Hos2:11; Amo5:21-22 Names of the crescent moon, crescent necklaces, moon ornaments,  tinkling ornaments, magic charms, little suns, and round tires like the moon. Blow the ram's horn at the time of the freshening of the moled, and at the full moon. Psa81:3 (From this we can understand that the moons cycle is split in half, one part begins when the moon is dark at its conjunction and the other half incepts when the moon is full. A crescent moon does not fit.)

Shalum Alechem,

I have been busy catching up on my reading in this forum and I came across some of you who believe that crescent observers are following a pagan tradition.  Although I applaud you all for exposing the heresy in lunar sabbaths teachings, yet I fail to see how I myself, Messianic Believers, Sacred-Namers, as well as the nation of Yishrael somehow "lost" our way into marking the first day of the month with the first visible sighting of the lunar crescent (waxing). 

Some things I have discovered: 

  1. Early muslims did not include the crescent as their symbol of identity
  2. Some muslims today (like Saudi Arabia) do not include the crescent as their identity as noted in their flags.
  3. Nearly ALL muslims cresents display a waning crescent in the flags; yet Yishrael observe a waxing cresent
I believe that the Scripture is clear that the moon serve as a sign to help us mark time (in this case months).  Well in order to be a sign, you have to "see" her. 

Shalum,

Tracy
Colorado Springs, Colorado



Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (16)
#905 From: "Nico Du Toit" <dtoitnj@...>
Date: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:17 am
Subject: Re: Question on day begining 		dtoitnj@...
Send Email Send Email
 
I do not have internet only email
 
Can you maybe copy tbhe article from this page and send it to me
 
Thanks
 
Nico

>>> On 11/26/2007 at 6:59 PM, in message <749392.96053.qm@...>, The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@...> wrote:

Shalom Nico!
 
About your question, I said that a Day begins with Dawn / Sunrise simply because I believe it, and it is Scripturally so!
 
In simple words, YAHWEH Called the Light DAY, when HE separated / divided the Light from the Darkness, that HE Called Night (Genesis 1:3-5; 14-18), and YAHSHUA Said that there are 12 Hours of Light in the DAY, after which the Night comes (Yahchanan / John 9:4-5; 11:9-10), that is, the DAY is 12 Hours of Light Time, running from Dawn (with visible Sign in the Sky at Sunrise) to Dusk (with visible Sign in the Sky at Sunset), after which the Night comes, the Darkness Time, running from Dark to Dawn.
 
So that:
1- the Day runs from Dawn to Dusk, during 12 Scriptural Hours of Light;
2- the Daily Cycle, from a Day to the Next Day, runs from Dawn to Dawn.
 
Please, kindly check the Messages of the Group, clicking on "Messages", on the top left, in the Home Page of the Group, and read the Messages related to this Subject, to have all the details.
 
Or you can read the Scriptural Articles on this Subject on The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA Web Site, at www.thecommunityofyahweh.com .
 
May YAHWEH Bless your Understanding of It!
 
True Love in YAHSHUA,
 
Carlo Tognoni
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
=================================================================================================
 


 
----- Original Message ----
From: Nico Du Toit <dtoitnj@eskom.co.za>
To: The@...
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 2:06:09 AM
Subject: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Question on day begining

Why do you say a day begins with sunrise ?
 
Nico
 
Sinai

>>> On 11/25/2007 at 8:18 AM, in message <835278.74292. qm@web33506. mail.mud. yahoo.com>, The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com> wrote:

Arnold,
 
sorry, but actually we do NOT agree even when a Scriptural New Moon / Month begins, because, even if both of us believe that the monthly Conjunction between Sun and Moon is the New Moon, marking the beginning of the Scriptural Month, very often we begin the Month on DIFFERENT Days, because you (erroneously from my point of view) believe that the Day begins from the Sunset / Dark, and I believe that the Day begins from the Dawn / Sunrise, so that very often what I believe to be the First Day of the Month would be your Second Day of the Month, because you (erroneously from my point of view) begin the Day from the Night before.
 
About the count to Pentecost, I already told you that to simply count 50 Days, OF COURSE, is TIMELY the SAME for EVERYONE, but, because of your lunar sabbath doctrine, your count of 50 Days, including your "extended sabbaths", will end on the SAME TIME, but on DIFFERENT Days of the Week, and with MORE Sabbaths passed than Larry's, and CONTRARY to The Scriptures.
 
May YAHWEH Open your mind and heart to Understand It!
 
In YAHSHUA's Name,
 
Carlo Tognoni
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====
 


 
----- Original Message ----
From: "YHWHPeople@ aol.com" <YHWHPeople@aol. com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 11:30:15 PM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Shalom Brother Carlo,

I am glad we can at least agree on one thing and that is when a scriptural New moon/month begins.

I don't know of another way to explain it to you about counting to Pentecost other than it don't matter how or which Sabbath you keep, if you count 50 days beginning on the 16th, you will wind up at the same place 50 days later, no matter who you are. And that is the way Larry counts to Pentecost. He does not pay any attention to New moon days OR SABBATHS, he just counts to 50, and anyone else can do the same no matter which Sabbath they keep. Please ask him and he will tell you that, he is not that deceitful.

I do not agree with his count except the beginning on the 16th which is in harmony with Philo, Josephus and the Septuagint, not to mention scripture.

Unlike Brother Larry, I count 7 Sabbaths complete even unto the morrow after the 7th Sabbath and then I number 50 days and then bring a new meat offering from my summer wheat harvest. See http://lunarsabbath .info/_wsn/ page4.html 



-----Original Message-----
From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 8:36 pm
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Arnold,
 
I guess I am not able to explain it clearly (you know, English is NOT my mother tongue, that is ITALIAN...), or you are not able, or you do not want to understand it.
 
Even a little child would understand that 50 days after the SAME day would TIMELY end on the SAME day, but, OF COURSE, that is NOT the point in discussion!
 
Let me try to explain it in another way...
 
Larry counts from the 16th, and he counts seven Weeks of 7 Days Each (that is, 49 Days), giving the meaning of 'Weeks' to the word 'Sabbaths' to count, and, on the 50 Day, his count ends on the SAME Day of the Week of when his count began, usually after Seven Sabbaths are passed (with a "strange" case, Proving that counting in such way is Scripturally erroneous, if the 16th falls on a Seventh Day Sabbath, in which the count ends on a Seventh Day Sabbath, that should be "the Day after the Seven Sabbath", with EIGHT Sabbaths passed?!?).
 
Instead, you, lunar sabbatarians, if you count 50 days from the 16th (that, for you, is ALWAYS on the first day of the week), you timely (OF COURSE!) end on the same day that Larry's count ends, but, for you, it is NOT the SAME Day of the Week that you have begun your count, and NINE sabbaths are passed (including your "extended sabbaths" at the end of your lunar month, since they are counted in such count of 50 days, otherwise, if you skip your "extended sabbaths", you can have seven "regular" sabbaths, but your count would end 2 or 3 days later)!?!
 
Instead, The Scriptures CLEARLY say that the count to Pentecost BEGINS on the Day After the Sabbath, and it ENDS on the Day After the Seventh Sabbath, 50 Days later, so that the count has to BEGIN and END on the SAME Day of the Week, AFTER Seven Sabbaths, NO MATTER WHAT!
 
So that the count of the lunar sabbatarians, ANYWAY, even using Larry's method, and TIMELY ending on the SAME day, is WRONG, because falling in a DIFFERENT day of the week than when it began, and after NINE sabbaths!
 
IS THAT FINALLY CLEAR??? I hope so....
 
 
About how to geto to our web site, to see what Larry wrote, if you mean the web site of The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group (since his Scriptural Study is NOT yet on the web site of The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA), you can go to http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/TheTrueSab bathsAndNewMoons / , and then click on "Messages" on the top left, just under "Home", and go to Messages # 846, # 847, # 848, # 849, where his Scriptural Study "Something Different: Lunar Sabbaths" was posted.
 
Or you can read it directly at his web site, at  http://www.pondersc ripture.org/ lunarsabbintro. htm .
 
May YAHWEH Open your mind and heart to Understand that you are teaching an HERESY!
 
In YAHSHUA's Name,
 
Carlo Tognoni
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====
 
 
 
 


----- Original Message ----
From: "YHWHPeople@ aol.com" <YHWHPeople@aol. com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 5:45:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Again, what is the differance between Larry and a lunar sabbath keeper or anybody if they count 50 days from the 16th they will be on the same day.

Remember Larry DON'T count 7 Sabbaths, he counts days period. Ask him and he will tell you I am right and he count days not sabaths and anyone can do the same even lunar Sabbath keepers. I dont see why you cant see this simple FACT. ASK LARRY.

I forgot how to get to your web site to see what he wrote.

Brother Arnold


-----Original Message-----
From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 2:26 am
Subject: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Larry,

WHY did you change TWICE the text of my message, from '16th Day'
to '12th Day'???

In my message, included here bwlow (that can be read at Message # 877
in the Group's Message Archive), I wrote TWICE 'the 16th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 16th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 16th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

In Larry's reply (that can be read at Message # 878 in the Group's
Message Archive), my message, included after your reply, instead,
reads TWICE 'the 12th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

In a message dated 11/21/2007 2:32:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com writes:

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 12th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 12th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Larry, I really wonder WHY did you change the text of my message???

Waiting for your prompt reply and explanation.

Carlo Tognoni

Group owner and moderator

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!




Reply | Messages in this Topic (9)
#906 From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@...>
Date: Sat Dec 1, 2007 12:58 am
Subject: Re: Question on day begining 		yahwehcommunity
Send Email Send Email
 
Shalom Nico!
 
Thank you very much for your kind reply!
 
Just as you have asked, I will e-mail you the Scriptural Articles on this Subject from The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA Web Site, at www.thecommunityofyahweh.com .
 
May YAHWEH Bless your Understanding of It!
 
True Love in YAHSHUA,
 
Carlo Tognoni
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
=================================================================================================
 
 


----- Original Message ----
From: Nico Du Toit <dtoitnj@...>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 4:17:14 AM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Question on day begining

I do not have internet only email
 
Can you maybe copy tbhe article from this page and send it to me
 
Thanks
 
Nico

>>> On 11/26/2007 at 6:59 PM, in message <749392.96053. qm@web33511. mail.mud. yahoo.com>, The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com> wrote:

Shalom Nico!
 
About your question, I said that a Day begins with Dawn / Sunrise simply because I believe it, and it is Scripturally so!
 
In simple words, YAHWEH Called the Light DAY, when HE separated / divided the Light from the Darkness, that HE Called Night (Genesis 1:3-5; 14-18), and YAHSHUA Said that there are 12 Hours of Light in the DAY, after which the Night comes (Yahchanan / John 9:4-5; 11:9-10), that is, the DAY is 12 Hours of Light Time, running from Dawn (with visible Sign in the Sky at Sunrise) to Dusk (with visible Sign in the Sky at Sunset), after which the Night comes, the Darkness Time, running from Dark to Dawn.
 
So that:
1- the Day runs from Dawn to Dusk, during 12 Scriptural Hours of Light;
2- the Daily Cycle, from a Day to the Next Day, runs from Dawn to Dawn.
 
Please, kindly check the Messages of the Group, clicking on "Messages", on the top left, in the Home Page of the Group, and read the Messages related to this Subject, to have all the details.
 
Or you can read the Scriptural Articles on this Subject on The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA Web Site, at www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com .
 
May YAHWEH Bless your Understanding of It!
 
True Love in YAHSHUA,
 
Carlo Tognoni
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====
 


 
----- Original Message ----
From: Nico Du Toit <dtoitnj@eskom. co.za>
To: The@...
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 2:06:09 AM
Subject: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Question on day begining

Why do you say a day begins with sunrise ?
 
Nico
 
Sinai

>>> On 11/25/2007 at 8:18 AM, in message <835278.74292. qm@web33506. mail.mud. yahoo.com>, The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com> wrote:

Arnold,
 
sorry, but actually we do NOT agree even when a Scriptural New Moon / Month begins, because, even if both of us believe that the monthly Conjunction between Sun and Moon is the New Moon, marking the beginning of the Scriptural Month, very often we begin the Month on DIFFERENT Days, because you (erroneously from my point of view) believe that the Day begins from the Sunset / Dark, and I believe that the Day begins from the Dawn / Sunrise, so that very often what I believe to be the First Day of the Month would be your Second Day of the Month, because you (erroneously from my point of view) begin the Day from the Night before.
 
About the count to Pentecost, I already told you that to simply count 50 Days, OF COURSE, is TIMELY the SAME for EVERYONE, but, because of your lunar sabbath doctrine, your count of 50 Days, including your "extended sabbaths", will end on the SAME TIME, but on DIFFERENT Days of the Week, and with MORE Sabbaths passed than Larry's, and CONTRARY to The Scriptures.
 
May YAHWEH Open your mind and heart to Understand It!
 
In YAHSHUA's Name,
 
Carlo Tognoni
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====
 


 
----- Original Message ----
From: "YHWHPeople@ aol.com" <YHWHPeople@aol. com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 11:30:15 PM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Shalom Brother Carlo,

I am glad we can at least agree on one thing and that is when a scriptural New moon/month begins.

I don't know of another way to explain it to you about counting to Pentecost other than it don't matter how or which Sabbath you keep, if you count 50 days beginning on the 16th, you will wind up at the same place 50 days later, no matter who you are. And that is the way Larry counts to Pentecost. He does not pay any attention to New moon days OR SABBATHS, he just counts to 50, and anyone else can do the same no matter which Sabbath they keep. Please ask him and he will tell you that, he is not that deceitful.

I do not agree with his count except the beginning on the 16th which is in harmony with Philo, Josephus and the Septuagint, not to mention scripture.

Unlike Brother Larry, I count 7 Sabbaths complete even unto the morrow after the 7th Sabbath and then I number 50 days and then bring a new meat offering from my summer wheat harvest. See http://lunarsabbath .info/_wsn/ page4.html 



-----Original Message-----
From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 8:36 pm
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Arnold,
 
I guess I am not able to explain it clearly (you know, English is NOT my mother tongue, that is ITALIAN...), or you are not able, or you do not want to understand it.
 
Even a little child would understand that 50 days after the SAME day would TIMELY end on the SAME day, but, OF COURSE, that is NOT the point in discussion!
 
Let me try to explain it in another way...
 
Larry counts from the 16th, and he counts seven Weeks of 7 Days Each (that is, 49 Days), giving the meaning of 'Weeks' to the word 'Sabbaths' to count, and, on the 50 Day, his count ends on the SAME Day of the Week of when his count began, usually after Seven Sabbaths are passed (with a "strange" case, Proving that counting in such way is Scripturally erroneous, if the 16th falls on a Seventh Day Sabbath, in which the count ends on a Seventh Day Sabbath, that should be "the Day after the Seven Sabbath", with EIGHT Sabbaths passed?!?).
 
Instead, you, lunar sabbatarians, if you count 50 days from the 16th (that, for you, is ALWAYS on the first day of the week), you timely (OF COURSE!) end on the same day that Larry's count ends, but, for you, it is NOT the SAME Day of the Week that you have begun your count, and NINE sabbaths are passed (including your "extended sabbaths" at the end of your lunar month, since they are counted in such count of 50 days, otherwise, if you skip your "extended sabbaths", you can have seven "regular" sabbaths, but your count would end 2 or 3 days later)!?!
 
Instead, The Scriptures CLEARLY say that the count to Pentecost BEGINS on the Day After the Sabbath, and it ENDS on the Day After the Seventh Sabbath, 50 Days later, so that the count has to BEGIN and END on the SAME Day of the Week, AFTER Seven Sabbaths, NO MATTER WHAT!
 
So that the count of the lunar sabbatarians, ANYWAY, even using Larry's method, and TIMELY ending on the SAME day, is WRONG, because falling in a DIFFERENT day of the week than when it began, and after NINE sabbaths!
 
IS THAT FINALLY CLEAR??? I hope so....
 
 
About how to geto to our web site, to see what Larry wrote, if you mean the web site of The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group (since his Scriptural Study is NOT yet on the web site of The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA), you can go to http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/TheTrueSab bathsAndNewMoons / , and then click on "Messages" on the top left, just under "Home", and go to Messages # 846, # 847, # 848, # 849, where his Scriptural Study "Something Different: Lunar Sabbaths" was posted.
 
Or you can read it directly at his web site, at  http://www.pondersc ripture.org/ lunarsabbintro. htm .
 
May YAHWEH Open your mind and heart to Understand that you are teaching an HERESY!
 
In YAHSHUA's Name,
 
Carlo Tognoni
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====
 
 
 
 


----- Original Message ----
From: "YHWHPeople@ aol.com" <YHWHPeople@aol. com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 5:45:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Again, what is the differance between Larry and a lunar sabbath keeper or anybody if they count 50 days from the 16th they will be on the same day.

Remember Larry DON'T count 7 Sabbaths, he counts days period. Ask him and he will tell you I am right and he count days not sabaths and anyone can do the same even lunar Sabbath keepers. I dont see why you cant see this simple FACT. ASK LARRY.

I forgot how to get to your web site to see what he wrote.

Brother Arnold


-----Original Message-----
From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndN ewMoons@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 2:26 am
Subject: [TheTrueSabbathsAnd NewMoons] Larry, WHY did you change the text of my message, from '16th Day' to '12th Day'?

Larry,

WHY did you change TWICE the text of my message, from '16th Day'
to '12th Day'???

In my message, included here bwlow (that can be read at Message # 877
in the Group's Message Archive), I wrote TWICE 'the 16th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 16th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 16th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

In Larry's reply (that can be read at Message # 878 in the Group's
Message Archive), my message, included after your reply, instead,
reads TWICE 'the 12th Day':

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

In a message dated 11/21/2007 2:32:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
yahwehcommunity@ yahoo.com writes:

Arnold,

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY!

Even if Larry and June Acheson erroneously begin the count to the
Pentecost from the 12th Day of the 1st Month (the Day after the
ANNUAL Sabbath), and NOT the Day after the Seventh Day Sabbath, their
count, 50 Day after, ends ON THE SAME DAY OF THE WEEK.

Instead, if your lunar sabbatarians count 50 Days from the 12th Day
of the 1st Month, that, for you, is the day after BOTH the ANNUAL AND
SEVENTH DAY SABBATH, your count would NOT end on the same day of the
week, but 2 or 3 days BEFORE it, on the fifth or sixth day of the
week!

You are WRONG again, and the deceiful person here, Arnold!

May YAHWEH Open your closed mind and heart to Understand It, and to
STOP your HERESY!

In YAHSHUA's Name,

Carlo Tognoni

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Larry, I really wonder WHY did you change the text of my message???

Waiting for your prompt reply and explanation.

Carlo Tognoni

Group owner and moderator

The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
www.thecommunityofy ahweh.com

============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ========= ====

Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!





Reply | Messages in this Topic (9)
#908 From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@...>
Date: Sun Dec 2, 2007 6:19 am
Subject: Is Work a Blessing or a Cursing, a Free Choice or an Obligation? 		yahwehcommunity
Send Email Send Email
 
Shalom Everyone!
 
Is Work a Blessing or a Cursing, a Free Choice or an Obligation?
 
Work surely is a blessing and a satisfation, when it is a free choice. But that is a very rare case on this Earth.
 
For the vast majority of people on this Earth, work is a cursing and an obligation, just to survive, to get meat (food).
 
WHY???
 
Lets read what occurred at the time of the Creation of man, to better understand it...
 
Genesis 1:26-31:
26 And The Mightiest One said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So The Mightiest One created man in His Own image, in the image of The Mightiest One created He him; male and female created He them.
28 And The Mightiest One blessed them, and The Mightiest One said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And The Mightiest One said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 And The Mightiest One saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the dusk came to be, and the dawn came to be. Day Six.
 
Do you read, in The Scriptures above, of any work that YAHWEH said to man to do, to survive, to get meat (food)?
 
What HE said to them, after having blessed them, was:
- to be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the Earth, and subdue it;
- to have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the Earth;
- to have given them for meat (food) every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the Earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed;
- to have given for meat (food) every green herb to all animals created.
 
There is NO WORD of any work commanded to man (or to animals), to survive, to get meat (food).
 
 
Lets continue to read what occurred in more details...
 
Genesis 2:7-10, 15-17:
7 And YAHWEH The Mightiest One formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8 And YAHWEH The Mightiest One planted a Garden eastward in Eden; and there He put the man whom He had formed.
9 And out of the ground made YAHWEH The Mightiest One to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of righteousness and evil.
10 And a river went out of Eden to water the Garden; ...
15 And YAHWEH The Mightiest One took the man, and put him into the Garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16 And YAHWEH The Mightiest One commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of righteousness and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
 
Again, do you read, in The Scriptures above, of any work that YAHWEH said to man to do, to survive, to get meat (food)?
 
What HE said to man, after having taken him, and put him into the garden of Eden, was:
- to dress, and to keep the Garden;
- to be free to eat of every tree of the Garden;
- to do not eat of the tree of the knowledge if righteousness and evil, under penality of death.
 
Again, there is NO WORD of any work commanded to man to survive, to get meat (food).
 
 
Lets continue to read what YAHWEH said to human beings, after they disobeyed HIS Commandment to do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of righteousness and evil...
 
Genesis 3:16-19:
16 Unto the woman He said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17 And unto Adam He said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
 
 
Once again, do you read, in The Scriptures above, of any work that YAHWEH said to man to do, to survive, to get meat (food)?
 
YES, and it was a cursing and an obligation, a result to have sinned, having disobeyed YAHWEH's Commandment!
 
Then, is work a blessing or a cursing, a free choice or an obligation?
 
Work to survive, to get meat (food) was, and is a cursing and an obligation for human beings, because our progenitors, Adam and Eve, sinned, disobeyed YAHWEH's Commandment, and we have inherited the cursings and obligations for it, that is, death for all human beings, and hard work to survive, to get meat (food) for men, and sorrow for giving birth to children, and submission to their husbands, for women.
 
But work can be a blessing and a satisfation, when it is a a free choice. But it is a very rare case on this Earth.
 
When YAHWEH gave the Commandment on the Sabbath, He said:
 
Exodus 20:8-11:
8 Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it set apart.
9 Six Days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the Seventh Day is the Sabbath of YAHWEH thy Mightiest One: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in Six Days YAHWEH made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the Seventh Day: wherefore YAHWEH blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.
Deuteronomy 5:12-15:
12 Keep the Sabbath Day to sanctify it, as YAHWEH thy Mightiest One hath commanded thee.
13 Six Days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
14 But the Seventh Day is the Sabbath of YAHWEH thy Mightiest One: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that YAHWEH thy Mightiest One brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore YAHWEH thy Mightiest One commanded thee to keep the Sabbath Day.
 
Was work a free choice for man? If so, it would a blessing and a satisfation.
 
But actually work for Six Days was, and is a cursing and an obligation, to survive, to get meat (food).
 
Was work for Six Days a free choice, a blessing and satisfation for YAHWEH? YES, it was!
 
HE worked Six Days to Create (or Re-Made) the Heavens and the Earth, and everything in them, because it was His FREE Choice, and a blessing and a satisfation to do so!
 
And ALSO man, when he was created, BEFORE to sin (disobbeying to YAHWEH's Commandment), had the SAME FREE choice to work as a blessing and a satisfation!
 
But man sinned (disobbeying to YAHWEH's Commandment), and, as result of sin, man died, and work became for man a cursing and an obligation, to survive, to get meat (food)!
 
That is the Scriptural and Historic Fact of Sinning Mankind!
 
But when The Reign of YAHWEH will Come, with The NEW Heavens and The New Earth, then the Saved Mankind will Live FOREVER in a Paradise, in a Garden of Eden that will include All the Earth, and will have AGAIN the opportunity of work as a FREE choice, as a blessing and a satisfation, as YAHWEH Planned for man in the Beginning, when He put man on the Garden of Eden, and NOT as a cursing and an obligation, to survive, and to get meat (food), as it was after man sinned, and died, as still it is for the vast majority of people on this Earth!
 
May YAHWEH Want that HIS Reign, and that Blessed Time will Come SOON!
 
True Love in YAHSHUA,
 
Carlo Tognoni
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
===============================================================================
 

Reply | Messages in this Topic (2)
#909 From: The Community of YAHWEH <yahwehcommunity@...>
Date: Mon Dec 3, 2007 1:42 am
Subject: Re: In Support of Crescent Observers 		yahwehcommunity
Send Email Send Email
 
Shalom Tracy!
 
Thank you very much for kindly sharing your point of view and belief.
 
Just to have a more correct and balanced information, let me lovingly say that several Messianic Believers, Sacred-Namers mark the First Day of the Month by the Conjunction, as well as the current nation of Israel officially marks the New Moon by the Conjunction.
 
Said that, the New Moon is still a very controversial Scriptural Issue, otherwise there would be not several Messianic Believers, Sacred Namers, as well as several Jews that keep the New Moon by the first visible Crescent or Sliver.
 
Just as many of the Arab nations keep the first visible Crescent or Sliver, even if some of the them keep the Conjunction.
 
Certainly ALSO (but NOT only) the Moon serves as a Sign in the Sky to mark time (Genesis 1:14-18).
 
But, in the case of the New Moon, are you sure that when you "see" NO Moon in the Sky (because the Moon is there, but covered from the Sun), that would be NOT a Sign in the Sky, just as when you "see" the Crescent, being the Conjunction the New Moon, and the Crescent usually the end of the First Day of the Month?
 
Also Brethren who keep the Conjunction, are using the Moon as Sign in the Sky, just as Brethren who keep the Crescent.
 
The difference is that the Conjunction can be ALSO calculated astronomically, besides to be "seen" when NO Moon is in the Sky, or also it can be "seen" the last Crescent of the "old" Moon, knowing that TOMORROW is the New Moon, at the Conjunction, just as it can be a very possible explanation of the reason why David and Yahnathatn could say just that (1 Samuel 20:5, 18), and avoiding such NOT Scriptural practice and rabbinical tradition to post-pone the New Moon to the Day after, if the first Crescent is not "seen".
 
While the first Crescent can only "seen", and if it could be NOT "seen", because the Sky is covered, usually the NOT Scriptural practice and rabbinical tradition is to post-pone the New Moon to the Day after, without to know if the Day before was the first Crescent or not.
 
May YAHWEH Bless you and yours!
 
True Love in YAHSHUA,
 
your brother Carlo
 
The Community of YAHWEH For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
 
===============================================================================
 
 


 
----- Original Message ----
From: Tracy Norton <tracy6005@...>
To: TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons@yahoogroups.com; TheTrueCommunity@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 11:36:02 PM
Subject: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] In Support of Crescent Observers

Shalum Alechem,

I have been busy catching up on my reading in this forum and I came across some of you who believe that crescent observers are following a pagan tradition.  Although I applaud you all for exposing the heresy in lunar sabbaths teachings, yet I fail to see how I myself, Messianic Believers, Sacred-Namers, as well as the nation of Yishrael somehow "lost" our way into marking the first day of the month with the first visible sighting of the lunar crescent (waxing). 

Some things I have discovered: 

  1. Early muslims did not include the crescent as their symbol of identity
  2. Some muslims today (like Saudi Arabia) do not include the crescent as their identity as noted in their flags.
  3. Nearly ALL muslims cresents display a waning crescent in the flags; yet Yishrael observe a waxing cresent
I believe that the Scripture is clear that the moon serve as a sign to help us mark time (in this case months).  Well in order to be a sign, you have to "see" her. 

Shalum,

Tracy
Colorado Springs, Colorado


Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.


Reply | Messages in this Topic (16)
Messages 877 - 909 of 2742   Oldest  |  < Older  |  Newer >  |  Newest
Add to My Yahoo!      XML What's This?
Copyright © 2010 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines NEW - Help