<<So christ is a literal son, a christian is not?>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
jesus is the literal son of God and of mary-
------------------------------------------
You mean ofliteral son of both not of God? That which makes him literal is Mary?


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
christians are adopted sons of God and no relation at all with mary, except, of
course, that we are all sons and daughters of eve.

NAS  Romans 8:15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear
again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out,
"Abba! Father!"

NAS  Romans 8:23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first
fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly
for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

NAS  Galatians 4:5 in order that He might redeem those who were under the Law,
that we might receive the adoption as sons.

NAS  Ephesians 1:5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to
Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
-------------------------------
not only Eve, but Eve and Adam, the Father and mother of the children of God

<<Three mothers of the One mother Eve, I would suppose.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
three descendants of the one mother- eve
-------------------------------
sons of Sarah, sons of hagar and sons of Mary, whose mother is Eve.

<<God choose Mary to be the mother of christ. and every christ is a child of
Mary and a child of God.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
God chose mary to be the mother of the christ (i.e. the anointed one), but every
anointed one is not a child of mary- but every anointed one is a child of God.
------------------------------
God chose Mary to be the mother of believers in jesus her son.

<<You believe that Jesus is man yet you doubt you are a christ.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
i am a christ (an anointed one), but i am not the christ (the anointed one)-
only jesus is the anointed one.
------------------------
Jesus is THE first begotton, The Christ. But you are as well a christ if you are
an anointed one.

<<yes christian and jews and moslems, literal and spiritual sons and daughters
of abraham,>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
only christians are the true spiritual sons and daughters of abraham
-------------------
all believers in the God of abraham including literal sons.


<<There are hebrew Jews, and hebrew Christians. I mean Hebrew by language.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
there are jews who do not speak hebrew, and there are those who speak hebrew and
are not jews. there are jews who reject christ and therefore are not
christian,and there are jews who accept christ and therefore are christian.
-----------------------
All Jews understand Hebrew if they do not speak it.
All Jews reject Jesus as the Christ.
and yes Jews who accept the Christ are no longer jews, they are chrsits, as you
said 'therefore are christians'.

<<I am saying, I am an Arab, I am a Palestinian and I am a Christian. Who am
I?>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\
x
arab, palestinian, and christian are three titles you identify with- but you are
only one person.
--------------------------------
As God has three titles, Father, Son, and Spirit yet a HOLY ONE.

a stone

- the apple

<<You mean literal son of both, not of God?>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
jesus was God's son by virtue of being created by him just like adam was God's
son by virtue of being crated by him. jesus is mary's son, because God uses her
uterus to create jesus and give birth to him.
------------------------
Jesus is born, Adam created a son of God.

<< That which makes him literal is Mary?>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
jesus would be the literal son of God even if God would have taken another route
and not used mary's uterus.
-----------------------------
You mean a third route? the route when He will apppear descending from the
heavens?

<<not only Eve, but Eve and Adam, the Father and mother of the children of God>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
well, we were talking about eve, but yes, adam is the father of all humankind-
but they are not the father and mother of the children of God- a lot of adam and
eve's offspring were born to the daughters of men rather than to the sons of
God- and because of adam's fall, all their offspring are born estranged from
God- it is only through jesus, the anointed one, that we can be adopted back
into God's family and once more be His sons and daughters.
-------------------------------
You mean there are daughters of men and there are daughters of God, as there is
sons of men and sons of God?

what about the offspring of daughters of God and sons of Men?

After Noah and his three sons, there was a new beginning. God chose his family.

<<sons of Sarah, sons of hagar and sons of Mary, whose mother is Eve.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
mary had 5 sons (of who jeus was one) and at least 2 daughters-

matt 13:55 "Is this not the carpenter's son? Is not His mother called Mary? And
His brothers James, Joses, Simon, and Judas? 56 "And His sisters, are they not
all with us? Where then did this Man get all these things?"

we know that jesus did not have any descendants (davinci code aside)- we do not
know about his brothers and sisters. anyway, this does not make mary the mother
of all christians.
---------------------------
Mary was the chosen woman to carry the son of God, therefore she was The
daughter of God as Jesus is the SOn of God. Jesus is my brother for for i was
born a christ, in the Uterus of 'Mary' my mother.

<<God chose Mary to be the mother of believers in jesus her son.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
scripture never says this
------------------
Luke 1 28 The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly
favored! The Lord is with you."

41 When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and
Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 In a loud voice she exclaimed:
"Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43 But why
am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 As soon as the
sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. 45
Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord would fulfill his promises to
her!"

Mary was the woman blessed among women.

<<Jesus is THE first begotton, The Christ. But you are as well a christ if you
are an anointed one.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
yes, i am an anointed one (a christ), but i am not the christ
-------------
a christ never claimed you are the Christ!

<<all believers in the God of abraham including literal sons.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
the scriptures tell us that whoever believes in God must also believe in His
son- if not they are antichrist

1 john 5: 9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for
this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son. 10 He who believes
in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has
made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of
His Son. 11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and
this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have
the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who
believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal
life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

1 john 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is
antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not
have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also. 24
Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you
heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in
the Father.

jews don't accept the son as messiah, and muslims say that God cannot have a son
-----------------
Jews do not accept the Christ as the Messiah, yet they accept the Messiah is a
son of God.
Moslems accept jesus as the Christ,as son of God, yet they  do not accept jesus
as son of God.



<<All Jews reject Jesus as the Christ.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
no. lots of jews have accepted jesus as the messiah
--------------------
You mean todays Palestinian Christians?

<<and yes Jews who accept the Christ are no longer jews, they are chrsits, as
you said 'therefore are christians'.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
jews don't stop being jews after they accept jesus as the mesiah and more than
palestinians stop being palestinians after they accept jesus as messiah or
germans stop being germans after they accept jesus as messiah
-----------------------------------------
Palestinian by defenition is a christian, as Israeli is by defenition a Jew.

<<As God has three titles, Father, Son, and Spirit yet a HOLY ONE.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
God is called Father i the scriptures, but He is never called "son" or "spirit"

God has a son, jesus; and God has spirit; but these are not titles.

- the apple
------------------
In the Old Testament He was called Father, the new Testament He is called Son as
Spirit.

a stone

You mean there are daughters of men and there are daughters of God, as there
is sons of men and sons of God?

     what about the offspring of daughters of God and sons of Men?

     After Noah and his three sons, there was a new beginning. God chose his
family.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\
xxxxxxxxx
adam and eve had many children, but the son of God line went through their son,
seth. all other offspring of adam and eve are of the sons and daughters of men.

noah was of the son of God line, and that line continued through his son, shem.
------------------------
Noah is your and mine blood line, the line of sons of God, surely not the only
begotton Son Jesus,  THE Christ

<<Mary was the chosen woman to carry the son of God,>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\
xxxxxxxxx
true

<<therefore she was The daughter of God as Jesus is the SOn of God.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\
xxxxxxx
mary was not the daughter of God- she was the daughter of heli and his wife-
mary's conception was not like jesus'.
------------------
the line of sons and daughters of God, is thru Mary the blest.

<<Jesus is my brother for for i was born a christ, in the Uterus of 'Mary' my
mother.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\
xxxxxxxxxxx
jesus is your brother because of God's spirit, not by birth- and you were not
born a christian (no one is)- you became a christian (an anointed one) when you
repented, and accepted the blood of jesus for the propitiation of your sin

and you were born of your mother's uterus, not mary's- mary has been dead for
2000 years.
------------------------
One becomes a christian for one is annointed by Jesus son of Mary.

<<Luke 1 28 The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly
favored! The Lord is with you."

41 When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and
Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 In a loud voice she exclaimed:
"Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43 But why
am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 As soon as the
sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. 45
Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord would fulfill his promises to
her!"

Mary was the woman blessed among women.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\
xxxxxxxxx
yes, blest, because she was to be the mother of God's anointed one (messiah,
christ)- but this does not make her our mother.
--------------------
My mother was a blest among women, a Mary.

<<a christ, never claimed you are the Christ!>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\
xxxxxxxx
well, when you say that you are christ, instead of saying that you are a christ-
there is a big difference between those two statements
----------------------
Sorry for the confusion.

<<all believers in the God of abraham including literal sons.>>
<<Jews do not accept the Christ as the Messiah,>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\
xxxxxxxxxx
since christ and messiah both mean the same thing- this statement is redundant-
jews do not accept jesus as the messiah
---------------------
I meant Jesus the Man not Christ his spirit.

<<yet they accept the Messiah is a son of God.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\
xxxxxxxxx
yes, the phrase "son of God" is just another way of saying "messiah"
--------------------------
yes another way of saying 'christ' not only christian.

<<Moslems accept jesus as the Christ,as son of God, yet they do not accept jesus
as son of God.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\
xxxxxxxxx
moslems don't accept anybody as "son of God"- for it says right in the koran
that God cannot have a son
---------------------



<<You mean todays Palestinian Christians?>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\
xxxxxxxx
no, i mean that there are lots of jews throughout the world who have accepted
jesus as the messiah


<<Palestinian by defenition is a christian, as Israeli is by defenition a Jew.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\
xxxxxxxxxx
i don't mean to be educating you about your own country, me who lives half a
world away- but the fact of the matter is that there are a lot more islamists
who are palestinian than there are christian palestinians
------------------------------------------
those whom you call Islamist Palestinians believe Jesus is the Christ.


and there are christians who are citizens of israel
-------------------
Those who are called Arab Christians, Palestinians.

<<In the Old Testament He was called Father, the new Testament He is called Son
as Spirit.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\
xxxxxxxxxx
in the old testament YHVH God is called Father or compared to a Father a few
times. but it is in the new that jesus teaches us strongly that God is our
Father. however, God is never referred to as the son or to holy spirit. like i
said, God has spirit, spirit is a quality of God, but spirit is never called
God.

- the apple
----------------
Like I said God is our Father, God is our Son, God is our Spirit.

<<Noah is your and mine blood line, the line of sons of God, surely not the only
begotton Son Jesus, THE Christ>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
luke's geneology that he records in the 3rd chapter of his gospel shows that the
bloodline of messiah starts with adam and goes through noah and seth right up to
mary.
--------------
it does not stop at Mary. It continues thru her children, Jesus being the first
begotton. surely the christs are the others.

<<the line of sons and daughters of God, is thru Mary the blest.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
scripture does not teach this
-----------
It teaches that my brother Jesus is of this blood line

<<One becomes a christian for one is annointed by Jesus son of Mary.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
one is anointed christian by God, not jesus
-----------------------
whether It Jesus who chooses me or whether it is God it realy makes no
difference. God will accept his Son's Judgement.

<<I meant Jesus the Man not Christ his spirit.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
christ is not spirit- a christ is one who has been anointed- jesus the man, and
jesus the anointed one is the same person
---------------------
It is the spirit of the annointer (The Christ) that which annoints us as
christs.

<<those whom you call Islamist Palestinians believe Jesus is the Christ.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
but they do not believe that he is the son of God, and that makes all the
difference

NAS  1 John 5:10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the witness in
himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has
not believed in the witness that God has borne concerning His Son.
---------------------------------------
they believe He is the Christ, born of the blest Mary.
Palestinians believe Mary is our Mother, as Abraham is our Father.

<<Like I said God is our Father,>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
yes, scripture teaches this

<<God is our Son, God is our Spirit.>>
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no, scripture does not teach this

scripture teaches that the man jesus is the son, and God's spirit is our spirit

- the apple
------------------------
God is scripture teaches that we are Jesus brothers and sisters, that we
believers in the God of Abraham, the God of Jesus, the GOd of Mary
believe in One God who has a living family.

a stone

<<it does not stop at Mary. It continues thru her children, Jesus being the
first begotton. surely the christs are the others.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
that's right, it does not stop with mary- it stops with jesus- we know that
jesus did not have any children- we do not know if mary's other children, James
and Joseph and Simon and Judas, or his sisters had any children. if they did,
the messiah blood line did not continue through them. we are children of God,
and brothers and sisters of jesus, but not by blood line- we are brothers and
sisters by adoption- an adoption that is brought about by God's spirit.
  ----------------------------------
1 John 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed
remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

Acts 17:29 "Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the
divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and
skill.


<<It teaches that my brother Jesus is of this blood line>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
yes, it does, and the blood line stops with him
--------------------------
It does not stop with Jesus, .

Ephesian 2 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been
brought near by the blood of Christ.

<<It is the spirit of the annointer (The Christ) that which annoints us as
christs.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
actually, we are anointed with God's spirit
-------------------
Same stuff.

NAS  2 Corinthians 1:21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and
anointed us is God,


<<Palestinians believe Mary is our Mother, as Abraham is our Father.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
well, if they believe that, they are incorrect for the scriptures do not teach
that- no people or person is the authority- only the scriptures
-----------------------------
Again scriptures teach that we are of the seed of Abraham, therefore brothers
and sisters.

<<God is scripture teaches that we are Jesus brothers and sisters,>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
yes, by God's spirit, by adoption
-----------------------------
Refer to scripture above

<<that we, the believers in the God of Abraham, the God of Jesus, the GOd of
Mary, believe in One God who has a living family.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
yes, God has a family, and jesus, Abraham, mary, and all the saints who have
ever lived, are living and who will ever live are all part of that family- and
some day, jesus will appear and the dead shall rise, and we will all be with
jesus.

- the apple
---------------
AAmeen

a stone

<<It does not stop with Jesus, .

Ephesian 2 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been
brought near by the blood of Christ.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
yes, we are brought near - but we are brought near by spirit, not by blood
----------------------------
Luke 19And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them,
saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
20Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in
my blood, which is shed for you.

<<Again scriptures teach that we are of the seed of Abraham, therefore brothers
and sisters.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
again, we are spiritual seed, not blood

you are confusing and mixing blood line with spiritual line- flesh with spirit-
and as paul says

NAS  Galatians 5:17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the
Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that
you may not do the things that you please.

- the apple
----------------
They are in opposition as in two poles of the one magnet.

1 John 4: 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that
Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3And every spirit that confesseth
not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that
spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now
already is it in the world.

stone

Pardon me for jumping in here, but Kelton: if the context of the Philippians
passage is as you say (and I do not disagree), and you're arguing that a
comparison to Adam has nothing to do with it, then surely talk of a pre-existent
divine being coming to earth would be even less relevant.  If Adam Christology
doesn't fit the context, why on earth would pre-existence Christology fit?

Greg


--- In TrinityQuestion@yahoogroups.com, KGRAHAM0938@... wrote:
>
>
> Apple:well, i have shown you- now you are just in denial- so when you have a
scriptural argument against- let me know- you did not rebut any of my argument-
you just denied it.
>
> - the apple
>
> Response: Sure no problem. Lets go to Phil 1.27 -30. The topic here is
suffering, not Adam.
>
> ESV Philippians 1:29 For it has been granted to you that for the sake of
Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake, 1:30
engaged in the same conflict that you saw I had and now hear that I still have.
>
> Paul then goes on to discuss unity in Christ (nothing still to do with Adam),
this unity in Christ gives us encouragement, comfort, fellowship, and
compassion.
>
> ESV Philippians 2:1 So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort
from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy,
>
> Paul then encourages them to make his joy complete by being of one mind and to
live in harmony. Maintain the same love, united in spirit, intent on one
purpose. Be filled with joy.
>
> The only way to do the above is to dismiss sin, particularly selfishness. The
only way to overcome that is to regard others as more important than yourself
(still nothing to do with Adam).
>
> ESV Philippians 2:3 Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count
others more significant than yourselves.
>
> And then the ultimate example of this of course is Christ.
>
> So there is no comparison going on here at all. Rather a strong desire for the
people to be unified and together and full of joy. Bringing up Adam here would
not fit well with the context because this is about unity amongst the church of
God.
>
> So your challenge has been meet.
>
>
>
>
> Kelton Graham
> kgraham0938@...
> Club Wolverine
> Huron High School
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: applsaucefactory@...
> To: TrinityQuestion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 10:13:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [TrinityQuestion] Re: Intro & Trinity questions @Apple
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 3/28/2011 10:03:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
KGRAHAM0938@... writes:
>
>
> This has zilch to do with Adam and the fall. If you can show me an actual
comparison in the actual text, you'd have an argument. But you are just reading
this one into the text.
>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\
xxxxxxxxxx
> well, i have shown you- now you are just in denial- so when you have a
scriptural argument against- let me know- you did not rebut any of my argument-
you just denied it.
>
> - the apple
>

<<Luke 19And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them,
saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
20Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in
my blood, which is shed for you.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
again, this is not talking about genetic blood lines- this is talking about
sacrificial blood
  -----------------------
You mean possessing the gene of God? not the spirit of God?
When one takes holy Communion one takes of this spiritual blood, we become
adopted children thru His blood.

<<They are in opposition as in two poles of the one magnet.

1 John 4: 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that
Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3And every spirit that confesseth
not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that
spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now
already is it in the world.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
no, they are in opposition as the opposite ends of two separate magnets- the
ends of the same magnet cannot be in opposition because they are the same magnet

- the apple
------------------------
Two separate forces, as in God and Satan, the Spirit and the Flesh?

In Jesus they existed together. and so in his children,
each as One magnet, yet Two opposite poles existing in harmony together.

stone

<<You mean possessing the gene of God? not the spirit of God?>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
God does not have genes
----------
God has children.

<<When one takes holy Communion one takes of this spiritual blood, we become
adopted children thru His blood.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
when we take communion, we commemorate the death of christ

NAS  1 Corinthians 11:26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup,
you proclaim the Lord's death until He comes.

the blood of christ through which we become adopted children is his sacrificial
blood- not his genetic blood line
-----------------------------
you call it sacrificial others call it genetic, I call it both.

<<Two separate forces, as in God and Satan, the Spirit and the Flesh?>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
yes, two separate forces
--------------------------

John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give
eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Jesus was given the power over Satan.

<<In Jesus they existed together. and so in his children, each as One magnet,
yet Two opposite poles existing in harmony together.>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
not in harmony- in enmity (hostile) with each other

NAS  Romans 8:7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it
does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so;

- the apple
--------------------------
Does have to be in enmity. they do coexist together as One force.

stone

<<God has children.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
yes, God has children, but not by blood (genetics)
--------------------------
God has children in spirit and in blood (genetics), after all who are the sons
of God if not the blood line of Jesus genetically to Adam?.
  Lk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son
of Adam, which was the son of God.

<<you call it sacrificial others call it genetic, I call it both.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
it doesn't matter what you or i or other call it- what matters is what scripture
says- and scriptuure says that the blood of jesus is the sacrificial blood that
is the propoitiation for our sin- it is what makes us a child of God.
---------------------------------
Hebrews 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered
himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the
living God?


<<Jesus was given the power over Satan.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\
xx
yes, he was, but that is irrelavant to our discussion about us being children by
blood or by the spirit.
---------------------------
Not one or the other; we are the marriage of both flesh and spirit.

<<Does have to be in enmity. they do coexist together as One force.>>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
the bible says that they are two completely different and separate forces

- the apple
-----------------
The bible teaches there is but One Force, One God.

the stone