Mike - that was a wonderfully written piece!
It has just occured to me that our economy also keeps families like mine
dependant on places like Walmart, just like the poor were once permanently
dependant on welfare programs.  I would much prefer to buy all of my food and
clothing locally, but I also realize that on our income we cannot afford to buy
many locally produced products, no matter how much I prefer them.
I love locally produced meat and fresh organic milk, but with 5 kids I go
thorugh over a gallon of milk a day.  I have to make a choice:  I can pay
$2.39/gallon for some generic mega farms milk at Cumberland farms - or I can buy
1/2 gallon of wholesome Strafford Farms for $3.19 and give the kids half the
milk they need.  It's a tough decision - really - because I believe Straffords
product is far superior and worth every penny they ask.
I splurged and bought some local bacon and ground beef last month.  It's so far
superior to the mass produced stuff that comes from Shaw's and Price Chopper
that there is no comparison.  But there again - it costs twice as much.  On a
purely cerebral level I can say.  "I would NEVER buy mass produced, hormonally
treated, non-organic meat from a mega market"  but economics tells me that I
have no choice.
On a bright note - I have begun to realize that when I buy whole foods, we eat
less BECAUSE they are whole and not pumped up with fillers and chemicals.  It is
a slow process - just like training welfare recipients to work their way out of
the system.  It will require extra effort from people who know about organics
and whole foods.  I have benefited from some of these kind people. So it's not
just a matter of buying local, we must also educate those around us.
For all you producers (farmers, artists, etc) - have you ever considered
contacting the local school and offering to open up your farm for the day or to
go in and do a demonstration.    What about offering samples at the farmers
market?  Spending a day with a home ec class teaching them about shearing,
spinning, knitting, weaving, etc.  These are the small steps that we can all
take to educate people about the alternatives.  It doesn't have to be a regular
commitment or a huge one.  It can be one day or one hour.
Orange Center School is really good at utilizing local resources - this spring
they built a clay bread oven as a school project, during the summer they run a
community garden, they took the kids on a "field trip" to the beaver dam behind
the town clerks office.  They offer after school programs throughout the year -
these are 1 hour once a week for 8 weeks and can be on any topic.  They would
probably jump at the opportunity to have someone volunteer.
I have found that one pair of Cabot hosiery socks (from the seconds sale)  will
last longer than a whole package of fruit of the looms or whatever; so that's
worth the extra to me.

Enough for now - I have to go find a stray shoe...
Amber
Mike McCleese <emailmike@...> wrote:
Walter,

Thank you for your thoughtful response to my comments about exploitation and
box stores, etc.  You are right in pointing out that my statement about the
economy and exploitation of workers seems to be a broad generalization, or
"absolute" as you put it.  Obviously my statement needs to be drawn out a
bit more since I do not believe that small businesses and farmers and those
who sell their creative artistry like your wife are "exploiters".  I have a
small business too and I'd like to think that I don't exploit the four
people who work for me.

The exploitation I refer to belongs to the economic policies of governments,
now represented by multi-national corporations which allow the majority of
the world's people to suffer unbelievable hardships.  It doesn't matter if
we live in Vermont or Cincinnati or Kalamazoo, the fact is that more people
are suffering devastating poverty on our planet today than ever before.
Some in our own country, most on other shores.  I have seen and lived among
them.  We can no longer view the suffering of people on other continents as
a consequence of their own making.

The aggressive, free market economy of today's multi-national corporations
thrive on the exploitation of people they employ as well as the people they
are selling to.  Wal-Mart, only one example but at the top of the list for
corporate exploiters, has earned more negative employee complaints from the
Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) than any other global
corporation.  They pay wages which keep people just above the US poverty
level, they are rabidly anti-union and they offer minimal benefits to
employees.

It doesn't matter that a few people we know may be promoted to management
positions at Wal-Mart.  The majority of people employed by this gargantuan
international corporation have substandard health care, if any, and they
make on average $15,000 per year.  Five of the ten richest people in the
world are Walton's, family members of the Wal-Mart empire.  The assets of
the Wal-Mart corporation exceed the Gross National Product (GNP) of most
third world countries and a few European countries.  They also import more
merchandise from China than any other global corporation.  Most of this
cheap, easy merchandise, including clothing and footwear is manufactured in
the most repressive, slave-like environments imaginable.  I have attached a
link to an article by columnist Jim Hightower about Wal-Mart for more
mind-blowing info about Sam Walton's empire.  (Founder of Wal-Mart.)

http://www.indyweek.com/durham/2002-05-08/news.html

The point is, if there is a global market for goods and services, people
will end up being exploited to deliver them in today's global economic
system.  If this were not true, millions of people on our planet would not
be suffering from malnutrition and billions of people would not be suffering
from illness, lack of affordable housing, education, and clean drinking
water.  NAFTA, (North American Free Trade Agreement), CAFTA (Central
American Free Trade Agreement),  and many other anonymous Washington
acronyms cross our radar screens everyday but we choose not to pay attention
to them.  They are news items which are tucked away in the "Business"
section of our newspapers and they are boring, uninteresting, or too
complicated to investigate.

These trade agreements and economic policies are wreaking havoc on workers
and consumers.  I don't have an easy answer about how to change the course
we are on.  Most of the members of my working class family shop at Wal-Mart
in Northern Kentucky and Southern Ohio.  They don't have much money and
Wal-Mart is easy and affordable.  They're not much interested in the worker
in China who made their workboots or underwear they purchased because they
are tired and broke and China is not just a third world country, it is a
completely alien world - one which is foreign and remote.   Of course they
don't speak English either.  The friendly, vacuous yellow smiley face at
Wal-Mart and the incredibly low prices they advertise draw people like my
mom like moths to a flame.  How could you not buy a TV/DVD combo set for
$69.00?

What my mom doesn't see is the worker in China who works 6 days a week for
$3.00 a day to make her Wal-Mart bargain happen.  When I try to tell my mom
or other friends and relatives about the worker in China they pretty much
write me off as a kind of agitator or someone who "thinks" too much.

There is a paradox here for me.  I understand why people like my parents get
a little pissed off at me and others with similar views.  Average working
people in this country are just trying to get by, mostly paycheck to
paycheck and the last thing they need is a "smartass" telling them where
they should shop, how they should spend their money, and why they should
write a letter to the idiot in Congress who claims to represent them..

A perfect example are the groups trying to stop logging companies in the
Pacific Northwest.  The people trying to protect the natural environment
have the best intentions about trees but seemingly no compassion at all for
the workers employed by the logging companies who are just getting by.

I understand why Walter would buy a pair of boots at Wal-Mart and why Wendy
shops there due to wheelchair access and lower price.  It's easy for people
with money and other resources to boycott things.   I've been fortunate
enough to have a business of my own.  Although I am not wealthy, I am
certainly not poor.  If I lost my business and had to work a minimum wage
job I'd probably start shopping at Wal-Mart again.  I'd like to think that I
would remain steadfast to my values but I remember what it was like growing
up in Appalachia without enough money to buy even toothpaste or toilet
paper.  It's a catch-22 and the Bastards running the show know this.  So,
how do we fight the cancer of global corporate greed?  The more we buy from
these corporations the richer and more powerful they get.

The farmer who sells a pig to a butcher who in turn sells the meat to
someone in a village is a good thing.  It is an example of an economic
system which sustains a community, not one which exploits people to create
unimaginable wealth through corporate empires.

So, when do we commence the revolution?

Mike



----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter H. Jeffries" <highlands@...>
To: <VermontHomesteaders@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: [VermontHomesteaders] Some thoughts about recent exchanges


> On Jun 29, 2005, at 1:49 PM, Mike McCleese wrote:
>> We wouldn't be able to buy much at all because the whole economy is
>> based on the exploitation of someone somewhere.
>
> I don't think economics has to be based on exploitation. It can and
> often is mutually beneficial. For example:
>
> Our family raises pastured pigs and sheep which we sell whole and half
> on the hoof delivered to the butcher. We get a fair price for our
> product, which is produced almost entirely with resources on our farm.
> Perhaps the pigs get exploited, but they've not complained and remain
> on very friendly terms with me. I don't feel that we are being
> exploited at all. If I did I would do something else instead. The
> butcher gets paid a fair price for his labor - he sets the price - so I
> don't think he's being exploited. The customer is getting an excellent
> product at a very fair price and has the choice to buy from us, another
> farmer or the supermarket so they aren't being exploited.
>
> We also sell timber - logs - for furniture making, house construction,
> paper, veneer, etc. We get a fair price for them. Yes, the market goes
> up and down a bit from time to time - I try to avoid selling species of
> wood that are going for too low a price at any time preferring to wait
> out the cycle. Again, I don't feel anyone is exploited.
>
> My wife draws portraits (she's wonderful - see
> http://hollygraphicart.com/). The only thing she uses is paper and
> pencils. I don't think anyone is being exploited in the making of the
> paper and pencils (made in USA no less) and she does not feel exploited
> doing the drawings.
>
> We're not being exploited and in none of these cases do I feel we are
> exploiting the buyers. There are many other vendors they could choose
> from. We compete in a free market and deliver value paid for. Everybody
> involved is benefiting from the transactions. This is not a mythical
> zero-sum game - It is Win-Win with everyone coming out ahead.
>
> Economics do not have to be based on exploitation. There can be a
> mutual exchange of goods, service, value and exchange medium (money)
> that leaves everyone better off than before. Take the pigs for example.
> We got started raising them first for ourself so that our family will
> have good food to eat. Without the livestock we have we ate very little
> meat in a large part due to the prices but also for quality reasons. I
> enjoy working with the animals. I dare say they enjoy me as well. Since
> I have pasture it is very easy for us to raise quite a few extra
> animals for almost the same work as what we would do for ourselves.
> Selling the them puts money in our pocket which pays our mortgage, buys
> food from the store that we can't produce ourselves (thus supporting
> our local general store and Shaws in our case), clothing for my
> children (Cheap Kids in Barre, VT - great place!), work boots (going on
> 8 years on this pair - Walmart - I shop there on occassion as needed),
> fencing (Clarks, Agway, Premier & Kencove), etc.
>
> Here's another example that is a bit different as it doesn't involve
> money but is still economic in nature. I needed some materials for
> construction and covering hay. Down at the general store their above
> ground swimming pool blew out the side and they were in the midst of
> replacing it. I offered to remove the metal and liner. This gave me
> free materials for a bit of labor. It gave them a savings on their
> trash disposal bill and saved them the time of doing a fairly daunting
> task. I felt very lucky to happen to come by on the right day and see
> the disaster that needed cleaning up. They were more than happy to have
> me clean it up. Pretty lucky since I don't go down into town on a
> regular basis! Win-win. We both benefited. Nobody was exploited.
>
> You are right that unfortunately economics is sometimes based on
> exploitation, especially when the work is done by forced slave labor or
> at slave wages. However, be careful of defining absolutes. Slave wages
> for example. What I earn per hour would be considered way below minimum
> livable wage in the big cities like New York, Tokyo, Burlington and
> Barre. People there would think it slave wages. But it works well for
> me here because my costs are much lower. Is my competition unfair
> because of that? Not really and they don't really want to dedicate
> pasture space in the city to pigs or timber forests. Likewise when you
> cross country barriers the economic exchange can get tricky.
>
> Another example is that in the cities many people apparently don't feel
> it is too much to drop several hundred dollars (!!!) per person on
> dinner out but for us that would be months worth of our food budget for
> the whole family. I once spend more than $80 on a dinner out and I
> thought that was incredibly expensive - that was for all five of us
> together. Our rare dinner out is usually a third of that. In the city a
> $50 steak is affordable in their economy - not to me though. Different
> worlds and we still in the same country. I'm just glad they are willing
> to pay it and have some trickle down my way. :) A dollar here is not
> the same as a dollar there. Some of this concept applies to production
> in third world countries as well.
>
> When I bought my steel toed work boots at Walmart I may have been
> contributing to exploitation (likely) in China. (I hear things are
> improving on that end - I hope so.) I didn't like it but I could not
> even come close to affording a good pair of high topped steel toe lace
> up leather work boots made in the USA. I also could not find one used
> in my size as I have particularly wide feet across the toes (I go
> barefoot too much one might argue) - all the used steel toed boots I
> found were way too narrow. The only new ones I found made in the USA
> were over three times as expensive. I needed to buy boots for my wife
> and my son as well. The choice became one of one person protected and
> feel better or compromise and all three of us got boots. My wife's and
> my boots have lasted us for many years - despite one of our puppies
> chewing the top edge on mine. My son out grew his but they are now worn
> by his brother. That I feel good about - the long lasting of the boots,
> not the puppy chewing! :)
>
> Definitely make a statement about what you feel is important with how
> you spend your money. Voting with your pocket book is wise. I
> personally try to avoid buying things from China for one. It is hard to
> understand why some simple things are made there and then shipped half
> way around the world when they could be made here. It is hard to keep
> reading about jobs being shipped overseas. I also don't like their
> forced labor. Unfortunately there are rare occasions when I really need
> something and I can't find any other viable closer source (read that
> one I can afford or one that simply exists). Then I bite my lip and buy
> "Made in China" products.
>
> There are those who argue that in buying products from China and places
> like them we are helping spread the wealth, raise their standard of
> living, bringing Democracy to them, etc. I would rather they made more
> progress before we start awarding them "Most Favored Nation Status".
> One step at a time - they should do something good before getting
> rewarded.
>
>> One individual certainly cannot shut this machinery down
>
> Aye, and probably just as well since who among us is wise enough to
> determine the fate of the Universe? :)
>
>> Even the most aware person contributes to the big corporate empire
>> just by paying federal taxes.
>
> Minimize this by not earning too much. :) Oh, and vote in the
> elections, of course!
>
> You make your choices carefully. Hopefully many of those choices can be
> non-exploitive.
>
> So, want a pig, a portrait... ? :)
>
> Cheers,
>
> -Walter
> Sugar Mtn Farm
> in Vermont
> ---
> 2 Livestock Dog Pups Available: http://SugarMtnFarm.com/pups/
> Piglet Parade: http://hollygraphicart.com/misc/20040917pigletparade/
> Vermont Cape House & Land: http://hollygraphicart.com/vermontcape/
> Laser Printer Iron-on Heat Transfer-Toner: http://blacklightning.com/
> Holly's Pencil Portraits: http://hollygraphicart.com/gallery.html
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.7/34 - Release Date: 6/29/2005
>
>



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.7/34 - Release Date: 6/29/2005



SPONSORED LINKS
Vermont state quarter Vermont state flag Vermont secretary of state

---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


     Visit your group "VermontHomesteaders" on the web.

     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  VermontHomesteaders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------





---------------------------------
Yahoo! Sports
  Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mike from this list was at the Maple Corner parade yesterday and I got to
meet him ;-) He took a picture of Zeke and I and I sure wish I had been smart
enough to take HIS picture! Mike is very cute, with nice blue eyes. He's the
sort of guy you like the minute you meet him.

I'm invited to go over to his homestead today. We will see. I was so wiped
out tired from all of yesterday's excitement that I didn't wake up until
noon...and I feel like going back for a nap.

Here's the pic he took of us....

_http://journals.aol.com/wsm311/WendyUsuallyWanders/entries/2855_
(http://journals.aol.com/wsm311/WendyUsuallyWanders/entries/2855)

  (http://busdepot.com/details/tents.jsp)
Wendy  (wsm311@...)
Peace and Carrots Farm
Maple Corner,  Vermont
http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mr. John Linder,


I have sent a copy of this to my Vermont Representatives

Over a month ago on another forum there was a nice write-up on the
Fair Tax Bill. It was very nicely done by
Congressman John Linder from Georgia. I had some questions, so shot
him an Email.
After doing this, I said why not my Vt. Reps. Instead? So I emailed my
questions to
Gov. Jim Douglas
Bernard Sanders
Jim Jeffords
Patrick Leahy

On June 13 I herd from Sanders, just to say massage received. And no
answers to my questions. Have herd from no one else. I guess the Vt.
Gang ether don't know about of just don't care about the Fair Tax.
Bill. I am sending a copy of this to all four of them.

BUT I got a very nice letter from John Linder of Georgia.

I think you Mr. John Linder for your reply.
John

I like this!

- publicizing your experience with our duly elected employees. Much more of
this is needed. Not long but exact and to the point, without rancor. I may not
  agree with the writer but that is not the point. I am concerned about our
employees involvement with the public and his following it's will as  opposed
to corporate influence. Massive exposure is the key.

In a message dated 7/6/2005 8:17:46 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
jjunk300@... writes:

Mr. John  Linder,


I have sent a copy of this to my Vermont  Representatives

Over a month ago on another forum there was a nice  write-up on the
Fair Tax Bill. It was very nicely done by
Congressman  John Linder from Georgia. I had some questions, so shot
him an Email.
After doing this, I said why not my Vt. Reps. Instead? So I emailed  my
questions to
Gov. Jim Douglas
Bernard Sanders
Jim  Jeffords
Patrick Leahy

On June 13 I herd from Sanders, just to say  massage received. And no
answers to my questions. Have herd from no one  else. I guess the Vt.
Gang ether don't know about of just don't care about  the Fair Tax.
Bill. I am sending a copy of this to all four of them.

BUT I got a very nice letter from John Linder of Georgia.

I  think you Mr. John Linder for your reply.
John







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

MacDale,

I thank you for your reply and hope others will
express their concern about not getting answers from
our employees.

In the original I asked if they supported Far Tax. I
can’t get an answer on that either. I like the way
this sounds, and hope it goes through.
John in Vt.



--- MacDale1st@... wrote:

>
> I like this!
>
> - publicizing your experience with our duly elected
> employees. Much more of
> this is needed. Not long but exact and to the point,
> without rancor. I may not
>  agree with the writer but that is not the point. I
> am concerned about our
> employees involvement with the public and his
> following it's will as  opposed
> to corporate influence. Massive exposure is the key.
>
> In a message dated 7/6/2005 8:17:46 A.M. Pacific
> Daylight Time,
> jjunk300@... writes:
>
> Mr. John  Linder,
>
>
> I have sent a copy of this to my Vermont
> Representatives
>
> Over a month ago on another forum there was a nice
> write-up on the
> Fair Tax Bill. It was very nicely done by
> Congressman  John Linder from Georgia. I had some
> questions, so shot
> him an Email.
> After doing this, I said why not my Vt. Reps.
> Instead? So I emailed  my
> questions to
> Gov. Jim Douglas
> Bernard Sanders
> Jim  Jeffords
> Patrick Leahy
>
> On June 13 I herd from Sanders, just to say  massage
> received. And no
> answers to my questions. Have herd from no one
> else. I guess the Vt.
> Gang ether don't know about of just don't care about
>  the Fair Tax.
> Bill. I am sending a copy of this to all four of
> them.
>
> BUT I got a very nice letter from John Linder of
> Georgia.
>
> I  think you Mr. John Linder for your reply.
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>




____________________________________________________
Sell on Yahoo! Auctions – no fees. Bid on great items.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Ugh. PETA people stand accused of killing dogs.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8255324/

*****Ugh. PETA people stand accused of killing dogs.******






Extremist groups, like extremist people are unbalanced in their ideas and
acts. If you look at life with one filter, you miss everything else.

Hopefully most people lead varied and more balanced lives and take the  whole
world into consideration. Which includes people, pets, trees and the  planet.



Wendy  (wsm311@...)
Peace and Carrots Farm
Maple Corner,  Vermont
http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Some of you may be interested to know about the several new
Christian-Agrarian Blogs that have sprouted up on the internet
recently.

"The Deliberate Agrarian" is one. It is described as "One Man's
Ruminations on Family, Faith, and Livin' The Good Life"

From that one Blog you can find links to the others....
"Homesteader Life," "Anthises in Agriculture," "Northern Farmer,"
Kansas Milkmaid," "Sun & Soil."

www.thedeliberateagrarian.blogspot.com

_www.thedeliberateagrarian.blogspot.com_
(http://www.thedeliberateagrarian.blogspot.com)






I am impressed. A good combination of heartfelt writing, information and
commerce. I am all for people trying to sell me something if I can be
entertained and educated, too.

This is a very good model for other homesteaders to follow.



Wendy  (wsm311@...)
Peace and Carrots Farm
Maple Corner,  Vermont
http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I recently recieved an advertisement for a subscription to the
"Vermont property owners report" and I noticed it mentioned something
about an "Ancient roads issue".

This has got me a bit worried, as we own property up there (have a
couple years before we can move there).

Can anyone tell me about this or point me to a website. About All I
found was the VAST website.

I'm worried that our frontage maybe closed but am unsure how to find
out. The road appears on the Westfield town map as a legal trail (runs
between balanced rock and buck hill roads), but once again I'm not
sure what that means.

*****I'm worried that our frontage maybe closed but am unsure how to  find
out. The road appears on the Westfield town map as a legal trail  (runs
between balanced rock and buck hill roads), but once again I'm  not
sure what that means.*****



Ask the town clerk and the road commissioner. Between the two of them,  they
know just about everything ;-)

Here in Calais we have many squabbles over class 4 roads. Some people  want
them kept open and others block them up every chance they get.







Wendy  (wsm311@...)
Peace and Carrots Farm
Maple Corner,  Vermont
http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I just did a search on vermont ancient roads and came up with a slew of links. 
There's alot of info out there.  My understanding is that the state actually
plans to 'divest' it's interests in Ancient Roads for liability reasons - but I
haven't researched it much beyond that.
I hate to admit it - but aside from yard/garden work and the ocassional
afternoon swim - I'm not much of and outdoors person.  I get sunstroke very
easily and can't spend lots of time outside.

Amber
Don <pcdreams@...> wrote:
I recently recieved an advertisement for a subscription to the
"Vermont property owners report" and I noticed it mentioned something
about an "Ancient roads issue".

This has got me a bit worried, as we own property up there (have a
couple years before we can move there).

Can anyone tell me about this or point me to a website. About All I
found was the VAST website.

I'm worried that our frontage maybe closed but am unsure how to find
out. The road appears on the Westfield town map as a legal trail (runs
between balanced rock and buck hill roads), but once again I'm not
sure what that means.




---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


     Visit your group "VermontHomesteaders" on the web.

     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  VermontHomesteaders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------




---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail for Mobile
  Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,

I'm a new member and Wendy blog reader and want to ask Wendy how you manage to
live
so well on such a tight budget? I'm envious. I'm up in Troy, on a limited income
working
part time and really curious how you afford all that medical care and such
really cool
things like the Mule?

Tell me your secrets Wendy!

Forestchild Kay

*****I'm a new member and Wendy blog reader and want to ask Wendy
how  you manage to live so well on such a tight budget? I'm
envious. I'm up in  Troy, on a limited income working part
time and really curious how you  afford all that medical care
and such really cool things like the Mule?  *****






First of all, never put someone....especially me, on a pedestal. I'm only
good at getting by with less than most because I've done it most of my  life.

I have been disabled for a long time. I have mixed connective tissue
disease, myasthenia gravis, congestive heart failure and a bunch of other 
things.
Being disabled gives me a small income and comes with medical care. I'd  rather
go back to working hard!!! Being sick isn't my favorite way to live life.
Most of my time is spent resting or napping. Even when I camp or travel, I do
very little physically. The stuff wrong with me makes me feel like I have 24/7
flu plus I am very weak and hurt all over. Everything is a struggle
physically....even having fun.

Luckily I wasn't always like this. I did a lot of backpacking, bicycling,
canoeing, caving, skiing, etc. when I was younger. I was also able to do
homesteading chores, gardening, building, etc. for years before I got as bad as 
I
am now.

The biggest reason I can live cheaply is that I do not live in a typical
American house. I can hunker down here with almost no money and survive. We heat
only with firewood, have gravity fed spring water, do not have hot running
water, no dishwasher, etc. We have a solar greenhouse for supplemental heat and
  growing seedlings, a homemade sawdust toilet and outhouse, a root cellar,
etc.

I live on my income, but everyone here has their own income to live on. We
each pitch in $50/week for food. I cook and they take turns doing dishes. I do
the shopping, but someone always has to go with me. I shop using an electric
wheelchair and am not strong enough to lift much. I can do something
ONCE....like lifting my dog into the van or ATV, then I can't do it again for a
while. That's the nature of MG.

I save up the best coupons, then buy those things when they are on sale.
Sometimes I get things free when the coupons are doubled. We grow some of our
own fruits and vegetables. On my web page, in the Will Wendy Weed or Wander
articles, I tell how I built up and developed this homestead with very little
money. I'd say the biggest route to success is to have a vision of what you want
  and make all decisions based on that. We went for years without what some
people  consider basics so we could use all our money for building our houses,
buying  manure and getting tools.

I had the last ATV for 14 years. I acquired it through Voc-Rehab as a way  to
help me keep farming. The Mule we just got belongs to both Peter and I. We
each pay $70/month for the payment plan. It's sure worth $2/day for me to be
able to get from the house to the road, to bring in groceries and firewood,
books and other accumulations.

Our cars are all old clunkers bought for cash. Unless I'm going quick to
Florida, I don't drive much. My van can sit without moving for weeks. Our
electricity used to be reasonable. Now that I'm on 5 liters of o2, it has 
increased
by a couple of dollars a day. Being able to breathe seems worth the  cost.

I'm running out of energy and brain cells. I hope I at least sort of
answered your questions.



Wendy  (wsm311@...)
Peace and Carrots Farm
Maple Corner,  Vermont
http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Factoring in everything you can - land, taxes, medical, food, ... how
much does it cost to live a homesteading lifestyle?

The federal poverty level is $9,570 for single person to $19,350 for
a family of four. If your income is below this, do you consider
yourselves living in poverty?

Hardy
--
______________________________________________________________________________
Hardy Machia     *    Catamount Software      *    Liberty in our lifetime
802-372-9512     *    www.catamount.com       *    www.freestateproject.org

*****Factoring in everything you can - land, taxes, medical, food, ...  how
much does it cost to live a homesteading lifestyle?

The federal  poverty level is $9,570 for single person to $19,350 for
a family of four.  If your income is below this, do you consider
yourselves living in  poverty?*****



There was a time when 2 of us lived on less than $200/month and another  when
3 of us had $300/month. We are still alive ;-) Back then we had no
electricity, no indoor cooking, no running water, no.......

At this point there are two houses here with two people in each house.  We
split some expenses and keep others separate. Our combined net income is  around
poverty level. In some ways I feel deprived and others rich. Depends on  my
mood at the moment and if my dog needs emergency vet care.

When my daughter and I lived in our rented cabin, I was much more able
bodied. I grew lots of food and gleaned wild foods constantly. I also worked  at
least two part to fulltime jobs that were seasonally busy. During  non-tourist
seasons I subsisted on what I had stored up. When I was working, I  bought
extra neccessities. I went without running water there for 6  years. Didn't have
a
car most of that time, either.

If I had a working body and lived here, I could get by on a few  thousand a
year if I did without electricity and a vehicle. It's all a matter  of how much
you "need" and how much you can do for yourself. If I became a  millionaire
tomorrow, I bet I could spend all that ;-p

There is no such thing as an  answer.....






Wendy  (wsm311@...)
Peace and Carrots Farm
Maple Corner,  Vermont
http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

*****Factoring in everything you can - land, taxes, medical, food,  ...  how
much does it cost to live a homesteading  lifestyle?****






Are you asuming it's cheaper to be a homesteader? It just occured to me
that's what you are really asking. The answer is NO. I'd say it's cheaper to 
live
frugally in a town or city where you are near things and can dumpster dive.
It's just harder to go without running water and electricity in a city.

Whatever sort of person you are now, I doubt if things will change your  core
needs and wants. Most new homesteaders fall into this trap. That's why I
wrote this....

_http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/HowNotToBecomeAHomesteader.html_
(http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/HowNotToBecomeAHomesteader.html)



Wendy  (wsm311@...)
Peace and Carrots Farm
Maple Corner,  Vermont
http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Wendy,

Thanks for explaining so much especially when you don't feel good.

If I'm not getting too personal, I was wondering where you income comes
from and how you afford health benefits and all your medical care? The
benefits offered at my job are outrageously expensive. I can understand
why so many farmers and homesteaders don't have health insurance.

Thank you for taking the time to answer and the articles. I haven't
been to your site in awhile, but look forward to a refresher.

Forest child Kay
On Jul 8, 2005, at 2:20 PM, wsm311@... wrote:

>
>
>
>  First of all, never put someone....especially me, on a pedestal. I'm
> only 
>  good at getting by with less than most because I've done it most of
> my  life.
>
>  I have been disabled for a long time. I have mixed connective tissue 
>  disease, myasthenia gravis, congestive heart failure and a bunch of
> other  things.
>  Being disabled gives me a small income and comes with medical care.
> I'd  rather
>  go back to working hard!!! Being sick isn't my favorite way to live
> life. 
>  Most of my time is spent resting or napping. Even when I camp or
> travel, I do 
>  very little physically. The stuff wrong with me makes me feel like I
> have 24/7 
>  flu plus I am very weak and hurt all over. Everything is a struggle 
>  physically....even having fun.
>
>  Luckily I wasn't always like this. I did a lot of backpacking,
> bicycling, 
>  canoeing, caving, skiing, etc. when I was younger. I was also able to
> do 
>  homesteading chores, gardening, building, etc. for years before I got
> as bad as  I
>  am now.
>
>  The biggest reason I can live cheaply is that I do not live in a
> typical 
>  American house. I can hunker down here with almost no money and
> survive. We heat 
>  only with firewood, have gravity fed spring water, do not have hot
> running 
>  water, no dishwasher, etc. We have a solar greenhouse for
> supplemental heat and
>  growing seedlings, a homemade sawdust toilet and outhouse, a root
> cellar, 
>  etc.
>
>  I live on my income, but everyone here has their own income to live
> on. We 
>  each pitch in $50/week for food. I cook and they take turns doing
> dishes. I do 
>  the shopping, but someone always has to go with me. I shop using an
> electric 
>  wheelchair and am not strong enough to lift much. I can do something 
>  ONCE....like lifting my dog into the van or ATV, then I can't do it
> again for a 
>  while. That's the nature of MG.
>
>  I save up the best coupons, then buy those things when they are on
> sale. 
>  Sometimes I get things free when the coupons are doubled. We grow
> some of our 
>  own fruits and vegetables. On my web page, in the Will Wendy Weed or
> Wander 
>  articles, I tell how I built up and developed this homestead with
> very little 
>  money. I'd say the biggest route to success is to have a vision of
> what you want
>  and make all decisions based on that. We went for years without what
> some
>  people  consider basics so we could use all our money for building
> our houses,
>  buying  manure and getting tools.
>
>  I had the last ATV for 14 years. I acquired it through Voc-Rehab as a
> way  to
>  help me keep farming. The Mule we just got belongs to both Peter and
> I. We 
>  each pay $70/month for the payment plan. It's sure worth $2/day for
> me to be 
>  able to get from the house to the road, to bring in groceries and
> firewood, 
>  books and other accumulations.
>
>  Our cars are all old clunkers bought for cash. Unless I'm going quick
> to 
>  Florida, I don't drive much. My van can sit without moving for weeks.
> Our 
>  electricity used to be reasonable. Now that I'm on 5 liters of o2, it
> has  increased
>  by a couple of dollars a day. Being able to breathe seems worth the 
> cost.
>
>  I'm running out of energy and brain cells. I hope I at least sort of 
>  answered your questions.
>
>
>
>  Wendy  (wsm311@...)
>  Peace and Carrots Farm
>  Maple Corner,  Vermont
> http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/
>
>
>
>  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Vermont state quarter
> Vermont state flag
> Vermont secretary of state
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  ▪   Visit your group "VermontHomesteaders" on the web.
>  
>  ▪   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  VermontHomesteaders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
>  ▪   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

*****If I'm not getting too personal, I was wondering where you income  comes
from and how you afford health benefits and all your medical  care?*****


As I already said, I get disability and insurance comes with that. Why so
curious?





Wendy  (wsm311@...)
Peace and Carrots Farm
Maple Corner,  Vermont
http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

When I was a young homesteader, I had no healthcare. When I had a tooth go
bad, all I could afford was to go to the dentist and get it yanked. I only saw
a  doc if I felt about ready to die. That almost killed me.

I finally went to Dartmouth-Hitchcock hospital using Hill-Burton money for
poor, very ill people. After 11 days, they couldn't figure out what was wrong
with me and decided I must be crazy or depressed. I still had wicked bad fever
  and pain so went to an old country doc. He poked my abdomen and said I
needed my  appendix out. He sent me to a surgeon in the Bennington hospital. The
surgeon  said I needed my appendix out but refused to do it if I was uninsured.
He sent  me to the Medicaid office.

The people at Medicaid were really mean to me. They said I was eligible for
nothing since I was single and childless. They said they turned down people
who  then died the next day, but they did not believe I was sick enough. I got
even  sicker and went back to the surgeon. He finally agreed to operate. When
he did,  he found my appendix had been burst for quite a while. It had formed a
cyst  around itself. My belly was full of peritonitis.

I got cut open from one side of my belly to the other. They had to take out
my intestines, clean them up, fill me with antibiotics and see if I lived. I
was  very sick and spent almost two weeks in the hospital. Later, I got a free
lawyer  who did pro bono work. My whole ordeal horrified him. He ended up
giving a lot  of people hell ;-) He got retroactive Medicaid to pay for the
operation, but not  afterwards.

I was uninsured most of the time until I got disability.

Wendy  (wsm311@...)
Peace and Carrots Farm
Maple Corner,  Vermont
http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,

I was curious because I worry. We don't have health insurance and I
wondered how you and Heather were able to get such great medical care.
Thought if you had a great insurance provider for low income farmers
like myself that i'd check into it.

Forest child Kay
On Jul 8, 2005, at 9:10 PM, wsm311@... wrote:
>
>
>  As I already said, I get disability and insurance comes with that.
> Why so 
>  curious?
>
>
>
>
>
>  Wendy  (wsm311@...)
>  Peace and Carrots Farm
>  Maple Corner,  Vermont
> http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/
>
>
>
>  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  ▪   Visit your group "VermontHomesteaders" on the web.
>  
>  ▪   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  VermontHomesteaders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
>  ▪   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

*****Thought if you had a great insurance provider for low income  farmers
like myself that i'd check into it.****


If you  are low income, you are eligible for VHAP. Have you applied? You can
earn  quite a bit of money and still be eligible. Premiums are paid on a
sliding scale. You make more money, you pay a higher premium. You cannot drop
insurance to get it, though.







Wendy  (wsm311@...)
Peace and Carrots Farm
Maple Corner,  Vermont
http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You can get info about VHAP here...

_http://www.dsw.state.vt.us/districts/ovha/ovha10.htm_
(http://www.dsw.state.vt.us/districts/ovha/ovha10.htm)

_http://www.path.state.vt.us/Programs_Pages/Healthcare/vhap.htm_
(http://www.path.state.vt.us/Programs_Pages/Healthcare/vhap.htm)

Wendy  (wsm311@...)
Peace and Carrots Farm
Maple Corner,  Vermont
http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Wendy,

Thank you for the information. No I haven't applied but I'll look into
doing so.
Farm work can be dangerous and you never know what might happen.

It's too bad those so-called care givers were so mean to you. You are
very lucky to be alive.

Speaking of teeth, I probably really should go to the dentist soon but
that's another expensive venture.

I was impressed with the quality of medical care you seem to be
getting. At least it comes across as quality when reading your blog.

Thanks again.

Forest child Kay
On Jul 8, 2005, at 10:00 PM, wsm311@... wrote:

> You can get info about VHAP here...
>
>  _http://www.dsw.state.vt.us/districts/ovha/ovha10.htm_
>  (http://www.dsw.state.vt.us/districts/ovha/ovha10.htm)
>
>  _http://www.path.state.vt.us/Programs_Pages/Healthcare/vhap.htm_
>  (http://www.path.state.vt.us/Programs_Pages/Healthcare/vhap.htm)
>
>  Wendy  (wsm311@...)
>  Peace and Carrots Farm
>  Maple Corner,  Vermont
> http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/
>
>
>
>  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>  ▪   Visit your group "VermontHomesteaders" on the web.
>  
>  ▪   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  VermontHomesteaders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
>  ▪   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

*****I was impressed with the quality of medical care you seem to be
getting. At least it comes across as quality when reading your  blog.*****






Really??? I like my hematologist and gynecologist the best. They are  both
genuinely caring and good docs. I used to have a great neurologist, but he  died
;-(  Only 36,000 people in the US have myasthenia gravis. Finding a
knowledgeable neuro is difficult anywhere.....and REALLY hard in Vermont. I like
my
rheumatolgist, but haven't seen her in a looong time. I used to dislike the
cardiologist, but he turned out to be a real good guy during my January
hospitalization. I loved the bone doc and am real glad I haven't needed him 
since my
broken leg and ankle healed! I could probably get arrested for  just thinking
what I do about the pulmonologist....can you say clueless??

My primary care doc has branched out to taking care of drug addicts on the
side. He no longer has much time for me, so I mostly see a DO in his office. I
respect her a great deal. Unfortunately ALL my docs feel out of their league
with me. I have a very complicated medical history with an unusual
conglomeration of diseases. On the internet, I have found quite a few others 
almost
the same as me!! We all have our trials and tribulations with medical  people.
If I did not have an online support group of folks in the same boat as  me, I
think I would go completely bonkers.

When I first got diagnosed with MG, the folks in the emergency room made me
worse several times. I now have a file of drugs I absolutely cannot take right
  there waiting for me in the ER. The lupus is easiest to get treated for me
and  the myasthenia the worst. 90% of my medical frustrations are neurological.
I'm  seeing a new neuro and all I can say is...he had BETTER be GOOD!!!

If I had known I was going to grow up to be a wimp, I'm not sure what I
would have done different. If I could change how things are going now, I wish I
had a smart neuro versed in MG....not the easiest task when you are a low
income  homesteader. The DO says I should not even consider going to docs here
and
should be in Boston. Sigh....




Wendy  (wsm311@...)
Peace and Carrots Farm
Maple Corner,  Vermont
http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Jul 8, 2005, at 9:24 PM, forest child wrote:
> I was curious because I worry. We don't have health insurance and I
> wondered how you and Heather were able to get such great medical care.
> Thought if you had a great insurance provider for low income farmers
> like myself that i'd check into it.

You're right - it is bad. But the level of insurance that many people
can afford, or not afford, is not much better. We don't have health
insurance. We used to have 'insurance'. For a long time we paid for
private health insurance ourselves but it was horribly expensive even
with our $10,000 deductible _per_person_per_year_ and 20% co-pay. If we
ever got sick we would have had to pay up to the first $50,000
_per_year_ plus 20% of anything beyond that. This was through BCBS.

This means we were self-insured for the first $12,000 of medical bills
per person per year. In other words, the insurance never kicks in. :(
We paid all our own medical bills anyways even though we 'had'
insurance. Our insurance also did not cover dental or vision, just
medical. This was the best we could afford and most months that meant
being very creative with finances to make that big payment to Blue
Cross Blue Shield - e.g., other bills didn't get paid on occasion,
electric, phone, don't buy groceries, put off fixing the van, etc.

I was always having to carefully watch the doctors to make sure they
didn't do extra tests since I was paying for everything. This was a
hard concept for the doctors since they were used to people being fully
insured and the insurance company paying the tab so they could load up
with lots of extra lab tests. Every year I'm supposed to get a blood
work-up. It is only (only?!) $250 if just the right tests are done but
the lab and doctor would add on extra 'standard' tests which could
boost the bill to over $1,000. They said, "oh, well, we figured the
insurance company was paying so it didn't matter." No, they were just
lining their pockets at my expense. I would have to fight that every
time. The blood test (liver enzyme test for valpresic acid) always was
negative and in the last few years I didn't get it because of the
combined cost of the premiums for the health insurance - either I paid
the premium or I paid for the lab test, can't do both. Now that I no
longer have insurance I can afford the basica annual lab test I am
supposed to get. Ironic, no?

The health insurance was marginally _not_ worth it but we kept
struggling to pay the premiums every month (our single highest bill) on
the theory that we "needed" to have it for an emergency - yeah, right,
an emergency that would cost more than $50,000 per year. :( They kept
upping the premium until finally we could no longer afford even that
little bit of major medical disaster insurance. I just wish I had
stopped the insurance sooner and saved the over $100,000 I paid them
over the years. :( You could buy a house for that! And no, I don't feel
I got any value for that money.

Here is the extra bonus kicker - if you have insurance the hospital
charges you 40% more for everything. So, since we paid it all we were
paying 40% more than we would have paid if we had no insurance, on top
of paying the outrageous insurance premiums each month. This actually
makes it much cheaper to have no insurance than to have a high
deductible insurance like we had.

Now we have no health insurance at all. We also have a lot more money
in our pocket at the end of the month. We live very, very carefully. I
am fortunate in that my sister is a family physician and my mother,
father and father-in-law were all family physicians too so I grew up
learning a lot about self-care and prevention as did my wife. That
helps both as habits for prevention and for when I have questions. They
enjoy the pork and eggs. :) The internet is another very good resource
for information. These things help.

Our kids get priority on health dollars - they have a dental checkup in
August and get all their immunizations. We all brush and floss
carefully. I have a cracked tooth that needs a root canal but that is
too expensive - I baby it with mouthwash. I've set my own bones and
sewed myself up. I prefer not to shake hands (major disease vector). I
wash my hands frequently and so do the kids. We take care of cuts and
abrasions. I don't operate heavy equipment if I'm not feeling tip-top
so I am less likely to make mistakes. Take things slow. Don't rush.
Figure out how to avoid dangerous things. Eat healthily. Get some sun
but not too much. Get gentle exercise - easy on a farm or homestead!

Prevention is the watch word.

Keep healthy,

-Walter
Sugar Mtn Farm
in Orange, VT
---
Guardian Dog Pups Available: http://SugarMtnFarm.com/pups/
Piglet Parade: http://hollygraphicart.com/misc/20040917pigletparade/
Vermont Cape House & Land: http://hollygraphicart.com/vermontcape/
Laser Printer Iron-on Heat Transfer-Toner: http://blacklightning.com/
Holly's Pencil Portraits: http://hollygraphicart.com/gallery.html

>If I became a  millionaire  tomorrow, I bet I could spend all that ;-p

Hehe, I had the list of how to spend my millions when I was in 7th
grade. It goes real quick.

Hardy

Income is not as important a question as expenses-  My health insurance is more
than my property taxes with transportation costs (gas and car maintenance) a
very close third.  Am I living in poverty if my expenses exceed my income??? I
never thought about it that way, but no I personally don't- others may.... I
feel I live more richly than people who go to a job working for someone else
everyday, who have more money to buy, buy, buy.  I grow my own food (still buy
coffee and toilet paper at the store, though) and try to reuse building
materials or get them free from the town dump.  I do sometimes have to buy good
lumber but I don't spend money on cable tv or cell phones or other trappings of
modern society. When I lived in the city, you can't believe what people put out
to the curb on trash day- most of my house is furnished with other poeple's
cast-offs that I either just painted or needed minor repairs. I am currently
having a new, safe chimney built by a mason, something that is a
  big expense for this year but will pay for itself in a couple of years in
fossil fuel savings.  I have been gathering firewood for the past several years
in anticipation of having this done.  I had to plan for it.

Hardy Machia <hardy2@...> wrote:Factoring in everything you can -
land, taxes, medical, food, ... how
much does it cost to live a homesteading lifestyle?

The federal poverty level is $9,570 for single person to $19,350 for
a family of four. If your income is below this, do you consider
yourselves living in poverty?

Hardy
--
______________________________________________________________________________
Hardy Machia     *    Catamount Software      *    Liberty in our lifetime
802-372-9512     *    www.catamount.com       *    www.freestateproject.org


---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


     Visit your group "VermontHomesteaders" on the web.

     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  VermontHomesteaders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------





---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
  Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

****I do sometimes have to buy good lumber but I don't spend money on  cable
tv or cell phones or other trappings of modern society. When I lived in  the
city, you can't believe what people put out to the curb on trash day- most  of
my house is furnished with other poeple's cast-offs that I either just
painted or needed minor repairs.*****


The only time I ever lived in a city is when I went to college. I've been  a
homesteader most of my adult life. I can understand not getting cable TV or  a
cell phone because you don't need or want one, but why frame it as a
trapping of modern society? Things are either helpful to you or not. I'm not 
picking
on any particular person with this question. I'm curious because it's
something I have heard repeated a bazillion times in homesteading  forums.

My kid didn't grow up with a TV until she was 8 or 9 years old.  Much of that
time we did not have electricity but even when we had it, we were  too busy
having fun or reading to want a TV. Then for years we watched channel  3 in a
cloud of snow as it was the only thing that came in here even with an
antennae. At some point we got satellite TV.  Now that I am wimpy, I  enjoy it
;-)
What would I do without the food, travel, science, craft,  DIY and health shows?
;-) For me it's a matter of need/want. Didn't need  it before, want it now.
Actually. I'm the one who had the satellite TV  installed and I paid for it for
several years. Now we have a different  provider and Peter pays for it. I
would not get all the channels he chooses to  get because I am too cheap ;-p

Heather and I got matching cell phones when she went on her 6 month hike.  On
the tops of mountains, she had no trouble getting signals. We kept in touch
so I knew when and where to meet her at road crossings. Thanks to the cell
phones, I ended up "rescuing" a few folks on the trail who needed to go to
docs. I have one of those pay as you go plans for $15/month. The time rolls 
over
because I never use much. Then, when I go off on one of my longer cross
country adventures, I use up all that saved up time. Works great for me  ;-)

And about OUR technology....now that my daughter is back in her own house
instead of the hippy school bus, I started realizing that she owns an awful  lot
in here!!! The VCR, toaster, microwave and vacuum are all hers. She won  the
VCR, bought a classic stainless steel heavy duty toaster, got the  microwave
for $8 at a garage sale and actually paid almost $200 for the  vacuum. Now I
get to decide if I want to replace those things or do without.  Hmmmmmm........





Wendy  (wsm311@...)
Peace and Carrots Farm
Maple Corner,  Vermont
http://www.homestead.com/peaceandcarrots/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

VHAP no longer covers dental for adults (what a bummer)  they dropped it a
couple of years ago when they increased the number of people they could cover
and started charging premiums.  We're fortunate that we can get it through the
National Guard fairly inexpensively.  Basic dental care actually isn't hideously
expensive (at least not from my dentist) a regular checkup is around $50-$75
(not including x-rays - I don't think), and a filling was about $75-100 as I
recall.  Root canals were a bit more and I had a crown done last year - THAT was
expensive nearly $1000 but our insurance covered all but $400.  My dentist is
still willing to bill and allow partial payments so we can budget for those
types of things.  DH never goes but I try to at least get a regular check up and
I usually need at least 1 filling per year.

Amber

forest child <forestchild@...> wrote:
Hi Wendy,

Thank you for the information. No I haven't applied but I'll look into
doing so.
Farm work can be dangerous and you never know what might happen.

It's too bad those so-called care givers were so mean to you. You are
very lucky to be alive.

Speaking of teeth, I probably really should go to the dentist soon but
that's another expensive venture.

I was impressed with the quality of medical care you seem to be
getting. At least it comes across as quality when reading your blog.

Thanks again.

Forest child Kay
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]