--- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, "Ulicia" <mydedication2000@...>
wrote:

I HAD WRITTEN
> > > The abomination...it is simply sin...sin within the church...
  organize apostasy that took over the control of the Christian Church...

ULICIA ANSWERS=
> Why do you want to generalize this away into vagueness -- though I see you are
modifying it a little in this second post, which is good-- as the ABOMINATION is
not simply "sin in the church".

MY RESPONSE=
Ulicia...I was simply saying what Daniel said in DAniel 8....
that the tamid was obscure attaked taken away by TRANSGRESSION...SIN,
I was simply responding to your post which denied my statement.
But I have told you all along that you have shown further details on the
issue...

Is something like this...I wanted to show the forest, so an understanding of the
trees(which you have brought to the forum) could be taken within the proper
context....AFTER ALL DANIEL 8 IS ACTUALLY USING THE WORD TRANSGRESSION, SIN,
WHEN SPEAKING OF THE ABOMINATION AS IT RELATES TO ITS EFFECT ON THE TAMID=

Dan 8:13  ... How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and
the TRANSGRESSION of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be
trodden under foot?

Here below is an article by somebody that has shown me a lot about the meaning
of the abomination desolation, and which shows a great understanding of what the
abomination(transgression, sin) and resultant desolation means..

The-Abomination-of-Desolation
by Gary Gibbs

Introduction

      "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by
Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him
understand:) Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains. . . For
then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the
world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" (Matthew 24: 15, 16, 21).

      What is this prophecy all about, and does it really affect Christians in
today's world?

      One of the most interesting prophecies in the Bible concerns the
abomination of desolation. The element that makes this prophecy especially
intriguing is that Jesus identifies it as a specific sign that the end is near.

      It was in answer to the disciples' question, "When shall these things be
and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" that
Jesus spoke of the abomination of desolation. He said, "When ye therefore shall
see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the
holy place, (Whoso readeth, let him understand:) then let them which be in Judea
flee into the mountains... for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not
sincethe beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" (Matthew
24:3,15-21).

      Christians of many persuasions recognize this text as a definite and
peculiar sign concerning the last days. Yet even though the majority of them can
agree that the abomination of desolation is an important sign, they can't seem
to agree on its specific nature. Even preachers are thrown into a quagmire of
confusion - looking for something that no one is very sure about. It is a
perfect example of the blind leading the blind.

      Of course, some believe they know the identity of the abomination of
desolation. Some teach that this prophecy was fulfilled when Antiochus Epiphanes
interrupted the temple sacrifices between 168 and 165 B.C. The abomination they
point to is the pig Antiochus had offered on the altar in the temple complex.
Others believe the abomination of desolation refers to a future time when an
atheistic antichrist will overthrow the temple in Jerusalem and use it as his
throne. Then there are those who believe the abomination of desolation is the
Roman standards which were worshipped in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. at the time of its
destruction by Titus.

      Just what exactly is the abomination of desolation? Is it any one of these
alternatives? Is it all of them at the same time? Or could it be possible that
not any of these interpretations are correct? The answer to these questions is
vitally important. Jesus clearly implies that our very lives could be at stake
over this matter.

      Jesus tells us that our study of the abomination of desolation should focus
on the book of Daniel (Matthew 24:15). When one makes a careful study of this
book, he discovers that the abomination of desolation can be divided into three
parts. These parts are: the abomination of desolation in Daniel's day (involving
the first temple); the abomination of desolation in Jesus' day (involving the
second temple); and finally the abomination of desolation in the time of the end
(involving the whole Christian church). The issues that come into play in the
abomination of desolation as treated in the book of Daniel remain consistent in
each of its three phases. Therefore they are types, or examples, of each other.


The First Abomination

      The key that unlocks the mystery of this prophetic event is found in the
first two verses of Daniel. "In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of
Judah came Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon unto Jerusalem, and beseiged it. And
the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with part of the vessels of
the house of God: which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his
god; and he brought the vessels into the treasure house of his god" (Daniel
1:1,2). In these two short sentences Daniel provides a concise historical
background to the remainder of the book which follows.

      Further study of Daniel's prologue reveals the abomination of desolation
was existent in his time and led to Jerusalem's captivity. The Chronicler
reveals the reason the Jewish kings fell to Babylon. "Jehoiakim was twenty and
five years old when he began to reign... and he did that which was evil in the
sight of the Lord his God." It was because of Jehoiakim's iniquitous life that
God allowed him to be taken captive.

      The significant feature of this is that Jehoiakim's evil deeds are
described this way: "Now the rest of the acts of Jehoiakim, and his abominations
which he did, and that which was found in him, behold, they are written in the
book of the kings of Israel and Judah: and Jehoiachin his son reigned in his
stead" (2 Chronicles 36:5-8). It was specifically the abominations of Jehoiakim
that led him and his city to forfeit God's protection and thus fall to
Nebuchadnezzar.

      Unfortunately Jehoiachin, his son, didn't do much better. Scripture tells
us he also did "that which was evil in the sight of the Lord." Consequently he
too was taken captive to Babylon, and "Zedekiah his brother" was placed as king
over Judah and Jerusalem (v. 9-11).

      The Bible goes on to record that not only did Zedekiah turn out to be just
as evil as his two predecessors, but "moreover all the chief of the priests, and
the people, transgressed very much after all the abominations of the heathen"
(v. 12-14). God's political and religious leaders, as well as the people,
adopted heathen ways as their own. They did this at the expense of God's
revealed truth. Notice where these abominations were committed: the people
"transgressed very much after all the abominations of the heathen; and polluted
the house of the Lord which he had hallowed in Jerusalem" (v. 14). These
abominations were standing in God's consecrated holy place, the "house of the
Lord."      The religious leaders of the day had purposefully led the people to
adopt heathen worship practices and incorporated them into their worship of God.
In substituting for God's commandments the vain notions of men, the leaders of
God's heritage provoked his wrath. The people rejected God's calls to repentance
and reformation and were left to reap the consequences. "Therefore, he brought
upon them the king of the Chaldees, who slew their young men with the sword in
the house of their sanctuary" (v. 17).

      This judgment was felt not only in the spilling of the blood, but in the
complete destruction of the city and sanctuary (v. 19). This all was done "To
fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had
enjoyed her sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she kept sabbath to
fulfill threescore and ten years" (v. 21). The result of God's people practicing
the religious abominations of the heathen was the desolation of their land, city
and sanctuary.

Breaking The Sabbath
Brought Desolation

      Just what were these abominations that resulted in such desolation? Since
this was all done "To fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah,"
then Jeremiah should be able to tell us what substitutions in worship had been
made. In Jeremiah 17 the prophet is told to stand in the gate of the people and
prophesy. Under a divine mandate, Jeremiah told the people that if they would
honor God's seventh-day Sabbath their city would remain forever, and that this
faithful obedience would lead them into such a relationship with Himself that
they would be used to convert the surrounding heathen nations (ch. 17:19-26).

      On the other hand, if they would not keep the Sabbath day holy God would
allow their city to be desolated. "But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow
the Sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of
Jerusalem on the Sabbath day; then I will kindle a fire in the gates thereof,
and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched" (v.
27).

      Sadly, the Jews chose to continue breaking God's Sabbath and thus
inaugurated their own destruction and captivity. The abomination that led to
their desolation was breaking the Sabbath. Thus, we see the significance of 2
Chronicles 36:21: "To fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah,
until the land had enjoyed her Sabbaths: for as long as she lay desolate she
kept Sabbath."

      Ezekiel, who lived during the same time, also tells us about the
abominations God's people were practicing in the holy place. In Ezekiel 8, the
prophet was brought by vision to the door of the inner gate. God proceeded to
show his servant the progressively greater outrages His people were committing.
In verses 5 and 6 He speaks of an image that provoked Him to jealousy. In an
escalation of outrage, unclean beasts had been brought into the house of God,
women were weeping for Tammuz and the greatest abomination of all was
twenty-five men standing in God's holy place "with their backs toward the temple
of the Lord, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward
the east" (Ezekiel 8:16).

      God had instructed the Jews to erect the temple in a manner that would
discourage the imitation of their heathen neighbors in sun worship. The ark of
the covenant, the very focal point of the Jews' worship, was placed at the
western end of the tabernacle. Thus the children of Israel would face the west,
their backs to the rising sun, when they worshipped the true God. Yet the
entrance of paganism among God's people had grown to such proportions that
Judah's leading men were actually turning their backs on the temple of God. This
was a significant act of apostasy.

      Both Ezekiel and Jeremiah list the heathen practices that had been
incorporated into the worship of God. Whether it was breaking the second
commandment by idol worship, adoring unclean beasts, worshipping Tammuz, the
mythological god of the pagans, or breaking God's holy Sabbath and worshiping
the sun on the day consecrated to it, these practices all were classed by God as
abominations. It was because the Jews persisted in justifying their own course
and continued in these heathen customs that God permitted the desolation of
their city.

      Daniel himself agrees that it was the sins committed by God's people that
caused their desolation. "O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech
thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy
holy mountain: because for our sins, and the iniquities of our fathers.... cause
thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate.... open thy eyes, and
behold our desolations..." (Daniel 9:16-18).      It is important to note that
the abominations were done by the apostate people of God. This in turn resulted
in their forfeiture of God's protection and called down His judgments and
chastisement in their desolation. This scenario of the abomination of desolation
in Daniel's day, involving the first Jewish temple period, prefigures the two
other abominations of desolation prophesied in Daniel. The next one we shall
consider is the one that concerns the second Jewish temple period.

The Second Temple Desolated

      After their release from Babylonian captivity and rebuilding the city and
temple, the Jewish leaders erected a mountain of rules and regulations designed
to protect them from repeating the sins that had led to their bondage. The
fourth commandment's seventh-day Sabbath became a special object of amendment.
The Jews reasoned that since it was transgression of the Sabbath that led to
their captivity, they needed to define in minute detail how the Sabbath should
be kept.

      Over 500 rules concerning Sabbathkeeping eventually resulted. Some of these
Sabbath laws were as ridiculous as this: one could not leave an egg in the sun
on the Sabbath because the sun might cook it, and cooking on the Sabbath was a
violation of the fourth commandment. Of course, this only resulted in a system
of pure legalism. At last the people began to believe that favor with God
depended on how well they obeyed the traditions of their elders.
      Ultimately the people were led full circle to disobedience again. Jesus
comments that in spite of their apparent religiosity they were still breaking
God's law even as their forefathers had during Isaiah's and Daniel's day. "Well
hath Isaiah prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoreth
me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they
worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the
commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men... full well ye reject the
commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition... making the word of
God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered" (Mark
7:6-13). Once again the people found
themselves immersed in vain and rebellious worship.

      Even though their apostasy expressed itself in legalism instead of laxness,
it was still based on the same principle upon which all pagan religions are
based - that man can save himself by his own works. Jesus, like Jeremiah of old,
rebuked this religious system and called it an abomination. "Ye are they which
justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is
highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God" (Luke 16:15).

      Jesus expressed His displeasure for their abominations on numerous
occasions. Most notable were the two times He cleansed the temple. On these
times He expressed His anger at the desecration of His holy place. The
controversy between Jesus and the Jews steamed, boiled and spewed over religion.
The religious leaders hated Him because He didn't look like the Messiah, He
didn't respect their traditions and most notably He didn't keep the Sabbath in
the manner they thought it should be kept. This latter issue infuriated the Jews
and led them to seek Jesus' death (See John 5:10-16; Matthew 12:1-4; Mark
3:1-6).

      In spite of the religious leaders' resistance, Jesus sought time and again
to bring them to repentance and reformation. Often He reproved them for their
erroneous ways and pointed the way to true and undefiled religion that is of
great price in the sight of God. Yet they hardened their hearts and beat back
the waves of God's mercy.

      As Jesus entered Jerusalem for the last time, His prophetic eye saw the
consequences of their constant rebellion. With a grief-stricken heart and tears
coursing down His cheeks, He prophesied the coming doom of the city: "For the
days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee,
and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side and shall lay thee even
with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee
one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation"
(Luke 19:41-44).

      After teaching in the temple for several days, Jesus left its precincts for
the last time. Again He was choked with anguish as He saw the ultimate result of
His people's apostasy. He exclaimed, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest
the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have
gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her
wings and ye would not! Behold your house is left unto you desolate" (Matthew
23:37,38).

      On both these occasions Jesus placed the guilt upon the people by stating,
"they knew not the time of their visitation" and "ye would not." As a result of
not responding to God's call to turn from their abominations, their temple was
to be desolated. This prophecy was fulfilled in 70 A.D. when the Roman armies of
Titus burned the temple to the ground. This second desolation of the temple
perfectly paralleled its first destruction. On both occasions the abominations
were done by the apostate people of God and the desolation was an act of
judgment performed by a heathen army.

      This desolation of Jerusalem was prophesied by Daniel to come as a result
of the people rejecting Messiah the prince. A careful study of Daniel 9:25-27
will show this to be the case. In verse 25 Messiah is promised to Israel and the
city's restoration is also predicted. But then, ominously, all is prophesied for
doom again. Verse 26 speaks of Messiah being killed by His own people and of how
this act would cause their city and sanctuary to be desolated once again.

      As Daniel heard Gabriel relay this prophecy, it was to his mind a replay of
what he had seen happen to the Jerusalem of his day. The prophecy indicated that
history would repeat itself, and this is exactly what happened. The abominations
that God's people committed resulted, in both 586 B.C. and 70 A.D., in the
destruction of their sanctuary and city -- first by Nebuchadnezzar, then by
Titus.

      Because Israel rejected the Messiah they lost their place as God's favored
people. Jesus predicted this would take place by saying, "The kingdom of God
shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits
thereof" (Matthew 21:43). Israel forfeited their franchise of the gospel by
their own obstinate sin.

      Who would be the new nation to receive the kingdom of God and bring forth
the fruits thereof? The Bible provides a clear and concise answer in the apostle
Peter's letter to the Gentile converts who "In time past were not a people, but
are now the people of God." Of the converts to Christianity, the new people of
God, he further says, "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an
holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who
hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light" (1 Peter 2:9,10).

      In the new dispensation God bestows upon the converted Christians all the
privileges and promises that had been made to the literal seed of Abraham (see
Galatians 3:26-29). Now converted Christians assume the role of Israel, and the
Christian church absorbs the status of the temple or sanctuary of God. The
Scriptures make this abundantly clear in such texts as Romans 2;28,29; Ephesians
2:11-13; 19-22; and 1 Peter 2:5.

The Final Desolation

      It is in the light of this New Testament principle of spiritual Israel that
Daniel speaks of the abomination of desolation the third and final time. These
references can be found in Daniel 8:13; 11:31; and 12:11. Discerning students of
prophetic history realize that these verses predict the formation and ascension
of power by the Papacy. It is an indisputable fact of history that the Papacy
brought into the Christian church the very same practices of paganism for which
ancient Jerusalem was destroyed. One has to do only a little study to see how
image worship, Tammuz worship, and sun worship were introduced to Christianity
during the Dark Ages. Many of these abominations are still with us in the form
of statues, candles for the saints, rosary beads, Easter sunrise services and
Sunday worship. [For more information on this subject, see Amazing Facts'
booklet Baptized Paganism.]

      By no means does the papal apostasy exonerate Protestantism. Most
Protestant churches accede to the apostasy by continuing the practice of
abominations that have their roots firmly fixed in ancient pagan religions,
which were established to destroy God's truth. Both Catholicism and
Protestantism have fostered abominations in God's holy place, His church. The
Christian church is mirroring literal Israel. We are repeating many of the same
sins and will consequently reap the same punishment of desolation, unless we are
willing to read the handwriting on the wall and flee from Babylon.
      It is clear that the three occasions of abomination of desolation found in
Daniel result from apostasy on the part of God's people, but what is the sign
that will tell us when the desolation is nigh?

      In Luke 21:20 Jesus told His disciples what would be the last sign of the
imminent destruction of Jerusalem. He said, "And when ye shall see Jerusalem
compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh." This text
does not indicate that the armies are the abomination, but rather that the
armies were the instrument to cause desolation. Through the Roman armies God
would execute "the days of vengeance" for Israel's abominations.

      When the Roman armies surrounded Jerusalem, it was a sign that most of the
city's leaders and inhabitants had passed the boundaries of grace and had filled
their cup of iniquity. To the Christians living in the city, this was to be a
sign that Jerusalem would soon suffer God's judgment. As soon as the first
opportunity arose, these Christians were to "flee to the mountains" (v. 21). In
66 A.D. when Cestius, the Roman general, surrounded the city the Christians knew
the promised sign had arrived and the time had come to flee. At their first
opportunity to escape they did so, and not one Christian died in the horrible
destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

      Just as God gave the early Christians a sign of when to flee Jerusalem, so
He has given us a sign. He has made it possible for every Christian to know when
this world's probationary hour is nearing its close.

      In Revelation 13 and 14 John records a list of omens that will tell us just
how close we are to the end. The sign that will show this nation has filled its
cup of iniquity will be when it makes an image to the Papacy by uniting church
and state. How much more neatly could this be effected than by the passage of a
national Sunday law commanding everyone to honor a pagan day of worship? Such an
event will be a direct fulfillment of Revelation 13:15-17, and provide assurance
that the end of this earth's time is quickly approaching.

      One author describes coming events this way: "As the approach of Roman
armies was a sign to the disciples of the impending destruction of Jerusalem, so
may this apostasy be a sign to us that the limit of God's forbearance is
reached, that the measure of our nation's iniquity is full, and that the angel
of mercy is about to take her flight." When the churches have apostasized in
their abominations to such a degree that they enact legislation of a religious
law which displaces God's holy Sabbath with a pagan holiday, we may leave our
cities, knowing that a time of trouble will be forthcoming.

      The abomination of desolation is an important subject in these last days.
If we study this prophecy carefully, we will find that in each of its three
fulfill-ments refers to a national apostasy by God's people that ends in their
tragic destruction. We are now living in the time of the Chistian church's final
apostasy, which makes of none effect the commandments of God. We need to see
that we are in the midst of fulfilling prophecy and keep our eyes open for the
culmination of all things.

      Our only sure protection against the abomination of desolation is to give
our lives unreservedly to Jesus, loving others as He loves them and worshiping
Him in the way that His word teaches. The greatest commandment is simply to love
God with all our heart and soul and strength. If we have such love, it will be
natural for us to do all things to please and honor Him. In return, He will see
us safely through the desolation that will close this earth's history just
before He comes again.

God bless,
Maranatha.

--- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, "Ulicia" <mydedication2000@...>
wrote:


> Several have written to me, inquiring if the message of justification by faith
is the third angel's message, and I have answered, "It is the third angel's
message in verity."-- Review and Herald, April 1, 1890.

> The sins of Babylon will be laid open. The fearful results of enforcing the
observances of the church by civil authority, the inroads of Spiritualism, the
stealthy but rapid progress of the papal power,--all will be unmasked. By these
solemn warnings the people will be stirred. Thousands upon thousands will listen
who have never heard words like these. In amazement they hear the testimony that
Babylon is the church, fallen because of her errors and sins, because of her
rejection of the truth sent to her from heaven.--The Great Controversy, pp. 606,
607.
> (1888)

ULICIA,
Great quotes..
whch bring me to the question...
what are we doing to share these truth...justification by faith, as the the
third angel message....which I will post below, it seems to me that this basic
relationship is seen in Rev. 14:12...as a message of warning gives way to a
message of hope=


Rev 14:9-11  And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any
man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in
his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured
out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented
with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence
of the Lamb:   And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:
and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and
whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. \

Rev 14:12  Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the
commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 14:13  And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are
the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they
may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.


There is a question that should be in each of our minds...which is
Are we sharing this message of warning and hope to the world?
Are we bringing it to each and every one that we meet or share a moment
with...such as with those many people that through the internet we have the
opportunity to come to know or at least become accessible to them by the many
e-groups we belong to?

We the internet crowd...have such a great responsability...
Thanks God that many are doing so....let us continue...

God bless,
brunie

PS, it is so simple,  go to the many messages in the urls of EGW, Amazingfacts,
amazingdiscoveries, whitehorse media, pioneer memorial site..above all the Bible
eg e-sword.net, ...copy and paste and share....(bring it into the conversation,
into the exchange....)

Catholics alarmed by EU equal rights law

ANDREW RETTMAN

Today @ 09:15 CET

EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS - Atheists could attack galleries for showing religious art and witches could claim the right to use church halls under a draft EU equal rights law, the Roman Catholic church has warned.

The EU bill aims to curtail discrimination on grounds of religion, disability, age or sexual preference in social situations not covered by existing labour law, such as renting properties.

St Peter's church: the bishops fear minority groups could use the law to stir resentment (Photo: flip.and.serena)

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The directive could enter into force in 2011 if member states give unanimous approval in discussions planned for November by the Swedish EU presidency.

The counter-blast was put forward in recent days by the Roman Catholic Bishops' Conference of England and Wales as part of a formal British government consultation procedure.

The bishops' group "commends" the EU effort to protect "the innate dignity of every person."

But it calls for the legal text to soften a clause against creating an "offensive environment" and to add an exemption to let religious organisations "function in accordance with [their] ethos."

"There is a risk that practical implementation may effectively turn the directive into an instrument of oppression against one or other group," the church paper, signed by bishops' conference general secretary Monsignor Andrew Summersgill, says.

"Homosexual groups ...may declare themselves offended by the presentation of the Catholic Church's moral teaching on homosexual acts; Catholics may declare themselves offended by a 'Gay Pride' march; an atheist may be offended by religious pictures in an art gallery."

"It is not clear whether [the bill] would apply to the activities of a Catholic priest, if, as recently occurred, he were to refuse to take a booking for a Church Hall from a group of witches," it adds.

The European Parliament passed the draft law in April by 363 votes against 226. Left-leaning and liberal MEPs championed the bill. But centre-right deputies said it will create too much red tape.

Dear Brunie,

The discussion thus far has been very interesting.  I would have liked to participate in it, but I do not have time to compose things that do not get posted.  So here is a cut and paste thought that is not time intensive, but might be of interest to some.  There is more, but for now ... this:

Daniel 8:11
Yea, he magnified [himself] even to the prince of the host, and by
him the daily [sacrifice] was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary
was cast down.
…In relation to the "daily" that the word "sacrifice" was supplied by
man's wisdom, and does not belong to the text.1
Different translations suggest different meanings for this passage…
1) Opposing the Prince: "Unto the prince of the host it exerteth itself…."2
2) Until the Prince arrives: "Yea, it magnified itself, even to the prince…."3
3) To be like the Prince: "It made itself great, even as great as the lord…."4
4) To be in place of the Prince: "He even exalted himself as high as the
Prince of the host…."5
This little horn...<snip> identified in
Daniel 7...<snip> magnifies himself toward the pleasant land, the place
of God's Sanctuary, in opposition to Christ until His Second Advent while it
makes itself to appear Christlike in order to usurp Christ's authority.  Thus Daniel
8:11 gives vital information that we especially need to understand in the endtime.
Yea, he waxed great as a prince continually for the time appointed
then he was taken away; the place of God's sanctuary he has cast down.6
Yea, he continually waxed great even to the Prince for the time
appointed then he was taken away; and the place of God's sanctuary he
has cast down.7
A parallelism begins between Daniel 8:11 & v. 10.  [Added words removed from text.]
And it waxed great, the host of heaven; and it cast down the host
and the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.8
Yea, he magnified even to the prince of the host, and by him the
daily was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.9
                                                  
1 RH, 11/1/1850 par. 11
2 Daniel 8:11, Young's Literal Translation
3 Jewish Publication Society
4 The Bible in Basic English
5 New King James Version 
<snip>
8 Daniel 8:10
9 Daniel 8:11

An alternate rendition of these verses clarifies this parallelism:
And it waxed great to the time appointed of heaven, and it died at
the time appointed; and some of the stars of earth were trampled.1  Yea,
he waxed great as a prince continually for the time appointed then he
was taken away; the place of God's sanctuary he has cast down.2
This little horn terrorizes God's people for an appointed time.
Comfort ye, comfort ye My people, saith your God.  Speak ye
comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is
accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the
LORD'S hand double for all her sins.  The voice of him that crieth in the
wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a
highway for our God.  Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain
and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the
rough places plain: and the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all
flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.3
The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry?  All flesh is grass,
and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: the grass
withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon
it: surely the people is grass.  The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but
the word of our God shall stand for ever.4
O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high
mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with
strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your
God!  Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and His arm
shall rule for Him: behold, His reward is with Him, and His work before
Him.  He shall feed His flock like a shepherd: He shall gather the lambs
with His arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those
that are with young.5
Let plain, authoritative truth be presented with decided assurance
and in the spirit of love and kindness, that the Holy Spirit's power may
give force to the words spoken.  You are surely where many souls have
become confused.  But Christ has promised, "Lo, I am with you alway,
even unto the end."[6]  We are to claim this promise.  The Lord is not
asleep or indifferent to our faith, and He will give knowledge and grace to
all who will humble their hearts before Him.7

 <snip>
3 Isaiah 40:1-5
4 Isaiah 40:6-8
5 Isaiah 40:9-11
6 Matthew 28:20
7 21MR 436.4

[DACR 205-206]

Blessings upon God's saints

henry

--- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, "maranatha77" <maranatha77@...> wrote:
>
> --- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, Greg Goodchild greg1844@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > I don't think so. I think that the Continual/Daily was so important that Satan chose to specifically attack it. Daniel 8:9-12 is the list of specific issues that Satan chose to attack, the host - God's life giving waterss - the people filled with the knowledge of God's Word, the stars - the leaders of God's life giving waters, The Prince of the host - the Very Fountain of truth sitting on the Throne in heaven, the sanctuary in heaven and all of its life giving messages was blocked, the intercessory ministry of Christ was diverted to the priesthood of the little horn, and it cast down the truths of all of God's pillar doctrines, upon which the temple sits, including the law of God. All of these issues the Little Horn has attacked, and is continually(counterfeit Daily) attacking. All of the truths of the Sanctuary system including Jesus' intercessory ministry must be clarified in doctrine, and in action through God's last day remnant host.
>
>
> But who is denying all that...?
> I am simply clarifying that within the context of the tamid, specifically speaks of expiatory and mediatory functions...
> the rest may go under a different heading...
>
> God bless,
> brunie
>

could the Abomination spoken of in the old and new test be the roman armies led
by Titus destroying Jerusalem.


In YESHUA

SCOTT

--- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, "csheath326" <csheath326@...> wrote:
>
> could the Abomination spoken of in the old and new test be the roman armies
led by Titus destroying Jerusalem.


For what I have read the abomination were the sinful things done in the
sanctuary...in the temple itself(or at the spiritual level in the church
itself)....both sins before God...

so Mr. Gibbs speaks of the abomination, trangressions not only in the temple
itself, but by the people of that temple...

eg. the 2nd temple...the Jewish themselves desecrated the temple by their sins,
among their making man made laws that obscured God's law, ultimately by their
rejection of Christ their house was left desolate....even during the times of
the siegue they desecrated the temple by making a  fortress of it and waring in
it...
and the instrument of the Romans themselves also descrated the Holy
temple....and destroyed it...desolated it...

You see Daniel 8...tell us that it was the people of the Prince to come which
destroyed the city and the Temple...(mind you not the Prince... but His
people)...being the Messiah Prince the antecedent in this statement....this is
telling us that even the desolation itself... the destruction of the temple
itself ...the party responsible for it are the jews (prophetically considered
responsible)...even though certainly the Romans were the physical instrument for
such a destruction...


Dan 9:25 ....UNTO the Messiah the Prince(THE PRINCE THAT SHALL COME)
Dan 9:26 ....shall Messiah be cut off,
.............and the people of the prince that shall come shall
.............destroy the city and the sanctuary;...
.............and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


So yes both parties (the jews and Romans,) at different levels desecrated the
temple,  and the desolation followed...
the responsability fell directly into the hands of the Jews, yet the actual
physical destroyer were the Roman Armies...

As you look back to the first temple...then the same concept comes to view...The
prophets tell us the abominations trangressions of the Jews cause the desolation
of their temple under the hands of the Babylonian which themselves abominated
the temple, they even took away the cups of the sacred service...

Yet how does this apply to the "christian temple" the church of God.. I think
that perhaps...and I am trying to put together different ideas presented, which
I have read, (some tend to emphasize one aspect, others the other...)...is this
desecration of the church, the sin of apostasy and alliance with paganism, with
the rejection of God's law, and instituting a false law, Sunday worship, and the
rejection of the tamid...which all is consider the abomination before
God...sin...transgression...and which brings about the desolation...which we did
see during the 1290 years of Papal Supremacy during the Middle Ages..

So think of it...two parties uniting into a common action...of abomination,
desecration ...pollution =  eventually becoming one in purpose...
two parties...
the apostate church and paganism...
which resulted in desolation...at all levels..destruction, darkness...
this happened during the Middle Ages....

but it will happen again...
and will happen again to the protestant church...the abomination of desolation
as an apostasy, sin within the "temple of God"...the union of the church with
pagan forces an apostasy...which will bring Sunday Worship to the land as an
legal institution...(as it is in Rome)...
You see the protestants so far have Kept church and state separate, so the
Sunday worship has not legally being introduced as Rome had done through the
previous ages.  But when the separation of church and state brakes down within
the protestant nations, and a church state is formed, USA and those protestant
nations that followed the lead will have properly reach the level of a national
apostasy, as Rome has done many centuries ago...

So it is not only Sunday worship, but its presentation as a legal
institution..the law of the land...as a result of the formation of
a Church-State...the image of the beast..a copy of the beast government..

So Ulicia has brilliantly shown us how all this came about. I must say that I
have seen in Ulicia a great force as a champion of the truth, and I am proud of
her for establishing this forum in which TRUTH reigns supreme..the Bible...

She did not agree with a point that I brought from my readings, but in fact I
meant exactly what she was saying...I guess I did not make myself clear.

So...in conclusion...I just have to say the topic is confusing at best, but
putting all things together perhaps we can summarize it in a simpler way, but
certainly limited..but just for the purpose of an overview..(which by default is
limited)...as such then we can say=

That the Abomination...is sin, transgression within the church, as the
union of an apostate church with pagan forces(with the kings of the world)
....in one way or another, whether concious of it or not... which results in a
pollution, a desecration of the temple of God His church and which results in
its destruction...its desolation... darkness..

You see that union with paganism...need not be purposely, but by acting the same
way...the union exist..

let me put it this way...
in the first temple...they did united with pagans purposely...and desolations
follow..which ever it might have being the culprit...

in the second temple..they did not united directly, yet they had a common action
of desecration of the temple...of the church itself...

in the third temple...the EARLY CHRISTIAN CHURCH....they did allied with
paganism....


and in the third temple...the LATER CHRISTIAN CHURCH-PROTESTANTS...they will
ally with paganism as the Papal Rome.


What confuses people is that they don't see the changes in the actors
themselves.....Rome is not a christian church...Rome is pagan..(what confuses
people is that at one time was christian and was the one apostatizing....but now
it change roles in the picture...now Rome is the pagan force, while the
Protestant church is the one apostatizing...


This change of roles in the prophetic picture confuses people...
and I myself cannot keep it straight...But it is true...
the picture has been always the union of an apostate church with
paganism(whether united in resultant action of desecration, not necessarily a
formal alliance, but united in their common activities and goals)...whomever fit
the bill...that is of whom the prophecy is speaking of at a given time in
history.....

So these are the two actors in the picture=

1) An apostate Church

2) Paganism

these are the events..

1) their interactions...

2) the result...as desolation..


I think that within the above frame we can put at at a given time who was doing
what, and we get the picture....

so the picture is the same(abominations and resultant desolation)...yet the
actors are not always the same
(comparing the 1st temple, 2nd temple, 3rd temple early, 3rd temple late times)

For example take the RCC, in the EARLY THIRD TEMPLE phase her role was as the
christian church that was apostatizing...uniting with paganism...

yet by the time of the LATER 3RD TEMPLE PHASE...is the protestant church the one
that it is apostatizing by uniting with paganism(here represented by the
RCC)...See how the role of the RCC has changed, initially the one being
polluted, by the end becoming the ones that pollutes..

I hope I have not confuse anybody...I am trying myself to keep this thing
straight...and I thank many people that have shown me this information, because
I did not know it...and I am still trying to understand it...

BABYLON...THE AMALGAMATION OF PAGANISM WITH THE APOSTATE CHURCHES ,...THE UNION
OF CHURCH AND STATE...SOON TO BE WORLDWIDE...

THE HARLOT/BEAST..THE CHURCH-STATE... AFTER ALL THE BEAST IS A VEIL DRAGON...
REPRESENTS THE DRAGON...PAGANISM..

BABYLON THE GREAT=
SO AT THE END THE FOLLOWING ARE ONE IN PURPOSE=
APOSTATE PROTESTANTISM(AS THE FALSE PROPHET)...
PAPAL ROME(AS VEILED PAGANISM, BAPTIZED PAGANISM, THE BEAST)
AND OVERT PAGANISM (THE DRAGON, SATAN)

Well......
it seems, that the abomination is done by both, as united in
a common purpose whether a formal alliance is made or not (and we need to keep
in mind the different levels they may operate such as an spiritual abomination
which is sin, and the actual physical abomination of the temple which is also a
sin)

(eg, for the 2nd temple the Jews although not in alliance with the romans did
the same thing, they desecrated the temple of God, and the result was
desolation, destruction....yet the early apostate christian church was in
alliance with paganism(the kings of the world), both were in accord and in union
and they accomplish the same thing=  the desecrating the temple of God....an
abomination which resulted in desolation...

GOD BLESS,
BRUNIE

--- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, "maranatha77" <maranatha77@...>
wrote:

Correcting a mistake...(I had written Daniel 8, so I change it below to Daniel 9
the correct vision)

> You see ****Daniel 9***...tell us that it was the people of the Prince to come
which destroyed the city and the Temple...(mind you not the Prince... but His
people)...being the Messiah Prince the antecedent in this statement....this is
telling us that even the desolation itself... the destruction of the temple
itself ...the party responsible for it are the jews (prophetically considered
responsible)...even though certainly the Romans were the physical instrument for
such a destruction...
>
>
> Dan 9:25 ....UNTO the Messiah the Prince(THE PRINCE THAT SHALL COME)
> Dan 9:26 ....shall Messiah be cut off,
> .............and the people of the prince that shall come shall
> .............destroy the city and the sanctuary;...
> .............and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
>
>
> So yes both parties (the jews and Romans,) at different levels desecrated the
temple,  and the desolation followed...both are responsible, at different
levels...


...
Maranatha!

You know this is very interesting...
yet I do want to say something...
as students of the prophecy we know what apparently the writer of this article
does not know...which is who is behind the scenes....
is not a party against the other...
is both parties under the  control of Papal sponsored secret societies, actually
manipulations by the Papacy itself..

Many are blinded to Bush and what he did as the originator of a double war, and
the economic collapse happening under his mandate...
and now blame solely Obama..the fact is that both of them are or were under the
control of the same religious political power...which prophecies say will one
day formed  a New World order...a One world order...

What this lady said is true...something is going on and it is real, but let us
not forget who is the controlling the puppets...

God bless,
marantha





-- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, Angela Zwicke <cricket.zw@...> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message ----- *From:* maemoore <moore_mae@...>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* mpb [mailto:mpb92651@...]
> *Sent:* Friday, July 31, 2009 6:10 PM
> *To:* Adams Michael; Rodtang Rolf; Alexander Barry
> *Subject:* Fwd: INTERESTING
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *An interesting read!*
> *by Pam Geller*
>
>
> *[image: cid:1.813281832@...]*
>
>
>
> *Pamela "Atlas" Geller began her publishing career at **The New York Daily
> News** and subsequently took over operation of **The New York Observer** as
> Associate Publisher.  She left **The Observer** after the birth of her
> fourth child, but  remained involved in various projects including  American
> **Associates**, **Ben** Gurion University** and  being Senior Vice-President
> Strategic Planning  and Performance Evaluation at The Brandeis   School .**
> *
> *After  9/11, "Atlas" had the veil of oblivion violently  lifted from her
> consciousness and immersed  herself in the education and understanding of
>  geopolitics, Islam, terror, foreign affairs and  imminent threats the
> mainstream media and the  government wouldn't cover or discuss.  To wit:  **
> *
> *I am a student of history.  Professionally, I have written 15 books in six
> languages, and have studied history all my life. I think there is something
> monumentally large afoot, and I do not believe it is just a banking crisis,
> or a mortgage crisis, or a credit crisis.   Yes, these exist but they are
> merely single facets on a very large gemstone that is only now coming into a
> sharper focus.**  **
> *
> *Something of historic proportions is happening.  I can sense it because I
> know how it feels, smells, what it looks like, and how people react to it...
>  Yes, a perfect storm may be brewing, but there is something happening
> within our country that has been evolving for about 10 - 15 years.  The pace
> has dramatically quickened in the past two.**  **
> *
> *We demanded and then codified into law the requirement that our banks make
> massive loans to people whom we knew could never pay back?   Why?  We
> learned recently that the **Federal  Reserve**, which has little or no real
>  oversight by anyone, has "loaned" two  trillion dollars (that is
> $2,000,000,000,000)  over the past few months, **but  will not tell us to
> whom or why or disclose the  terms**.**   **That is our money. Yours and
> mine.   And that is three times the $700B we all argued about so strenuously
> ** **just this past September**.**  **
> *
> *Who has this money?  Why do they have it?   Why are the terms unavailable
> to us?  Who asked for it?  Who authorized it?  I thought this was a
> government of "We the People," who loaned our powers to our elected leaders.
> Apparently not.**
> *
> *We have spent two or more decades intentionally de-industrializing our
> economy**. Why?**  **
> *
> *We have intentionally dumbed down our schools, ignored our history, and no
> longer teach our founding documents, why we are exceptional, and why we are
> worth preserving.  Students by and large cannot write, think critically,
> read, or articulate.  Parents are not revolting, teachers are not picketing,
> and school boards continue to back mediocrity.  Why?**  **
> *
> *We have now established the precedent of protesting every close election
> (now violently in   **California** over a proposition that is so
> controversial that it wants marriage to remain between one man and one
> woman.  Did you ever think such a thing possible just a decade ago?).  We
> have corrupted our sacred political process by allowing unelected judges to
> write laws that radically change our way of life, and then mainstream
> Marxist groups like ACORN and others to turn our voting system into a banana
> republic.  To what purpose?**  **
> *
> *Now our mortgage industry is collapsing, housing prices are in free fall,
> major industries are failing, our banking system is on the verge of
> collapse, and **Social Security** is nearly bankrupt, as is Medicare and our
> entire government.  Our education system is worse than a joke (I teach
> college and know precisely what I am talking about.)  The list is staggering
> in its length, breadth, and depth.  It is potentially 1929 x 10.   ** **And
> we are at war with an enemy we cannot name for fear of offending people of
> the same religion who cannot wait to slit the throats of your children if
> they have the opportunity to do so.**  **
> *
> *And now we have elected a man no one knows anything about, who has never
> run so much as a **Dairy Queen**, let alone a town as big as **Wasilla** ,
> Alaska** .  All of his associations and  alliances are with real radicals in
> their chosen  fields of employment, and everything we learn  about him, drip
> by drip, is unsettling if not  downright scary (Surely you have heard  him
> speak about his idea to create and fund a  mandatory civilian defense force
> stronger  than our military for use inside our  borders?  No?  Oh, of
> course.   The media would never play that for you over and over and then
> demand he answer it.  **Sarah Palin**'s pregnant daughter and $150,000
> wardrobe is more important.)**  **
> *
> *Mr. Obama's winning platform can be boiled down to one word:
>  Change...radical change.  Why?**  **
> *
> *I have never been so afraid for my country and for my children as I am now.
>  This man campaigned on bringing people together, something he has never,
> ever done in his professional life.  In my assessment, Obama will divide us
> along philosophical lines, push us apart, and then try to realign the pieces
> into a new and different power structure.   Change is indeed coming.  And
> when it comes, you will never see the same nation again.**  **
> *
> *And that is only the beginning.**  **
> *
> *I thought I would never be able to experience what the ordinary, moral
> German felt in the mid-1930s.  In those times, the savior was a former
> smooth-talking rabble-rouser from the streets, about whom the average German
> knew next to nothing.  What they did know was that he was associated with
> groups that shouted, shoved, and pushed around people with whom they
> disagreed; he edged his way onto the political stage through great oratory
> and promises.  Economic times were tough, people were losing jobs, and he
> was a great speaker.  And he smiled and waved a lot.  And people, even
> newspapers, were afraid to speak out for fear that his "brown shirts" would
> bully them into submission.**  **
> *
> *And then he was duly elected to office, with a full-throttled economic
> crisis at hand [the **Great Depression**].  Slowly but surely he  seized the
> controls of government power,  department by department, person by person,
>  bureaucracy by bureaucracy.**   The kids joined a Youth Movement in his
> name, where they were taught what to think.  How did he get the people on
> his side?  He did it promising jobs to the jobless, money to the moneyless,
> and goodies for the military-industrial complex.**   He did it by
> indoctrinating the children, advocating gun control, health care for all,
> better wages, better jobs, and promising to re-instill pride once again in
> the country, across **Europe** , and across the world.**  **
> *
> *He did it with a compliant media - Did you know that?**   And he did this
> all in the name of justice and...change. And the people surely got what they
> voted for.  (Look it up if you think I am exaggerating.)  Read your history
> books. Many people objected in 1933 and were shouted down, called names,
> laughed at, and made fun of.  When **Winston Churchill** pointed out the
> obvious in the late 1930s while seated in the **House of Lords** in   **
> England** (he was not yet Prime Minister), he was booed into his seat and
> called a crazy troublemaker.  He was right, though.**  **
> *
> *Don't forget that **Germany** was the most educated, cultured country in
> Europe .  It was full of music, art, museums, hospitals, laboratories, and
> universities.  And in less than six years - a shorter time span than just
> two terms  of the U. S. presidency - it was rounding up its  own citizens,
> killing others, abrogating its  laws, turning children against parents, and
>  neighbors against neighbors.  All with the best of intentions, of course.
> The road to Hell is paved with them.**  **
> *
> *As a practical thinker, one not overly prone to emotional decisions, I have
> a choice:  I can either believe what the objective pieces of evidence tell
> me (even if they make me cringe with disgust); I can believe what history is
> shouting to me from across the chasm of seven decades; or I can hope I am
> wrong, close my eyes, have another latte and ignore what is transpiring
> around me.**  **
> *
> *Some people scoff at me; others laugh or think I am foolish, naive, or
> both.  Perhaps I am.  But I have never been afraid to look people in the eye
> and tell them exactly what I believe - and why I believe it.  I pray I am
> wrong.  But, I do not think I am.** **
> ** *
> *Since many of you enjoy senior citizen status or will sometime in the not
> too distant future, I thought you might be interested in this information. *
> *
> *
> *IN  GOD WE TRUST**  **
> *
> *Everybody  that is on this mailing list is either a senior  citizen, is
> getting close, or knows somebody that is.**  **
> *
> *Most of you know by now that the Senate version (at least) of the
> "stimulus" bill includes provisions for extensive rationing of health care
> for senior citizens.  The author of this part of the bill, former senator
> and tax evader, **Tom Daschle**, was credited today by Bloomberg with the
> following statement.  **
> *
> *Bloomberg:   "Daschle says health-care reform will not be pain free.
>  Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age
> instead of treating them." **
> *
> *If this does not sufficiently raise your ire, just remember that Senators
> and Congressmen have their own healthcare plan that is first dollar or very
> low co-pay which they are guaranteed the remainder of their lives and are
> not subject to this new law if it passes.**  **
> *
> *Please use the power of the Internet to get this message out.  Talk it up
> at the grassroots level.  We have an election coming up in just over a year.
>  We have the ability to address and reverse the dangerous direction the
> Obama administration and its allies have begun and in the interim, we
> can make our voices heard!  Let's do it!
> *
> *If you disagree, don't do anything**.*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> =
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> "Sorrow looks back. Worry looks around. Faith looks UP!"
>
>
>
> --
> "Sorrow looks back. Worry looks around. Faith looks UP!"
>

Henry,
Interesting, but I need to study it further.
God bless,
brunie

- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, "Henry" <henrychills@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Brunie,
>
> The discussion thus far has been very interesting.  I would have liked
> to participate in it, but I do not have time to compose things that do
> not get posted.  So here is a cut and paste thought that is not time
> intensive, but might be of interest to some.  There is more, but for now
> ... this:
>
> Daniel 8:11
> Yea, he magnified [himself] even to the prince of the host, and by
> him the daily [sacrifice] was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary
> was cast down.
> …In relation to the "daily" that the word
> "sacrifice" was supplied by
> man's wisdom, and does not belong to the text.1
> Different translations suggest different meanings for this passage…
> 1) Opposing the Prince: "Unto the prince of the host it exerteth
> itself…."2
> 2) Until the Prince arrives: "Yea, it magnified itself, even to the
> prince…."3
> 3) To be like the Prince: "It made itself great, even as great as
> the lord…."4
> 4) To be in place of the Prince: "He even exalted himself as high as
> the
> Prince of the host…."5
> This little horn...<snip> identified in
> Daniel 7...<snip> magnifies himself toward the pleasant land, the place
> of God's Sanctuary, in opposition to Christ until His Second Advent
> while it
> makes itself to appear Christlike in order to usurp Christ's
> authority.  Thus Daniel
> 8:11 gives vital information that we especially need to understand in
> the endtime.
> Yea, he waxed great as a prince continually for the time appointed
> then he was taken away; the place of God's sanctuary he has cast
> down.6
> Yea, he continually waxed great even to the Prince for the time
> appointed then he was taken away; and the place of God's sanctuary
> he
> has cast down.7
> A parallelism begins between Daniel 8:11 & v. 10.  [Added words removed
> from text.]
> And it waxed great, the host of heaven; and it cast down the host
> and the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.8
> Yea, he magnified even to the prince of the host, and by him the
> daily was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.9
>
> 1 RH, 11/1/1850 par. 11
> 2 Daniel 8:11, Young's Literal Translation
> 3 Jewish Publication Society
> 4 The Bible in Basic English
> 5 New King James Version
> <snip>
> 8 Daniel 8:10
> 9 Daniel 8:11
>
>
> An alternate rendition of these verses clarifies this parallelism:
> And it waxed great to the time appointed of heaven, and it died at
> the time appointed; and some of the stars of earth were trampled.1  Yea,
> he waxed great as a prince continually for the time appointed then he
> was taken away; the place of God's sanctuary he has cast down.2
> This little horn terrorizes God's people for an appointed time.
> Comfort ye, comfort ye My people, saith your God.  Speak ye
> comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is
> accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of
> the
> LORD'S hand double for all her sins.  The voice of him that crieth
> in the
> wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert
> a
> highway for our God.  Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain
> and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and
> the
> rough places plain: and the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all
> flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.3
> The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry?  All flesh is grass,
> and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: the grass
> withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth
> upon
> it: surely the people is grass.  The grass withereth, the flower fadeth:
> but
> the word of our God shall stand for ever.4
> O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high
> mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice
> with
> strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah,
> Behold your
> God!  Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and His arm
> shall rule for Him: behold, His reward is with Him, and His work before
> Him.  He shall feed His flock like a shepherd: He shall gather the lambs
> with His arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those
> that are with young.5
> Let plain, authoritative truth be presented with decided assurance
> and in the spirit of love and kindness, that the Holy Spirit's power
> may
> give force to the words spoken.  You are surely where many souls have
> become confused.  But Christ has promised, "Lo, I am with you alway,
> even unto the end."[6]  We are to claim this promise.  The Lord is
> not
> asleep or indifferent to our faith, and He will give knowledge and grace
> to
> all who will humble their hearts before Him.7
>
>   <snip>
> 3 Isaiah 40:1-5
> 4 Isaiah 40:6-8
> 5 Isaiah 40:9-11
> 6 Matthew 28:20
> 7 21MR 436.4
>
> [DACR 205-206]
>
> Blessings upon God's saints
>
> henry
>
>
>
>
> --- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, "maranatha77"
> <maranatha77@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, Greg Goodchild greg1844@
> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't think so. I think that the Continual/Daily was so important
> that Satan chose to specifically attack it. Daniel 8:9-12 is the list of
> specific issues that Satan chose to attack, the host - God's life giving
> waterss - the people filled with the knowledge of God's Word, the stars
> - the leaders of God's life giving waters, The Prince of the host - the
> Very Fountain of truth sitting on the Throne in heaven, the sanctuary in
> heaven and all of its life giving messages was blocked, the intercessory
> ministry of Christ was diverted to the priesthood of the little horn,
> and it cast down the truths of all of God's pillar doctrines, upon which
> the temple sits, including the law of God. All of these issues the
> Little Horn has attacked, and is continually(counterfeit Daily)
> attacking. All of the truths of the Sanctuary system including Jesus'
> intercessory ministry must be clarified in doctrine, and in action
> through God's last day remnant host.
> >
> >
> > But who is denying all that...?
> > I am simply clarifying that within the context of the tamid,
> specifically speaks of expiatory and mediatory functions...
> > the rest may go under a different heading...
> >
> > God bless,
> > brunie
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To: adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com
> > > From: maranatha77@
> > > Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:56:12 +0000
> > > Subject: [adventism_prophecy] Re: The Daily
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, Greg Goodchild
> <greg1844@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Remember that in Numbers 28-29 is the great discussion of the many
> applications of the Tamid - Continual/Daily. In Numbers 28:9-10 the
> Continual is offered on the Sabbath. In Numbers 29:7-11 the Continual is
> offered on the Day of Atonement as well. In Numbers 29:12-39 the
> Continual is also offered on the Feast of Tabernacles. So the Continual
> is an integral part of all the Sanctuary activities and is the baseline
> of all the Sanctuary worship.
> > >
> > > Yes...but we need to look at it from its proper context...
> > > Aren't the continual or daily as refering to the ceremonial laws and
> rites, and even the temple itself as means of bringing man to back to
> God, to reconcialed man with God and His laws(including the 7th day
> Sabbath)...such as atonement and intercessory functions...
> > >
> > > As such then the Tamid does not include the 7th day Sabbath, but its
> restoration brings man back to God and His laws(which includes the 7th
> day Sabbath).
> > >
> > > God bless,
> > > brunie
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To: adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com
> > > > From: maranatha77@
> > > > Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:36:00 +0000
> > > > Subject: [adventism_prophecy] Re: The Daily
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > --- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, gordon elder
> <directservice246@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dan 8:11-14
> > > > > > Apparently as the cleansing commenced in the heavel
> sanctuary there also commenced a cleansing in the earthly sanctuary, the
> chuch , by restoring the sabbath truth and the sanctuary truth and
> casting out sunday keeping and popery.
> > > >
> > > > If "the daily" speaks of intercessory functions....how is it that
> the 7th Day Sabbath can be understood as being part of it?
> > > >
> > > > Ok...I was reading EGW "Calvary"...and a thought came...
> > > > I am trying to figure out the relationship of the 7th day Sabbath
> as being part of the definition of Tamid...as being included in its
> restoration....(if I understood you right)
> > > >
> > > > Since there are two basic laws...
> > > >
> > > > 1)
> > > > God's law (which includes the Sabbath), actual contained within
> the Most Holy place, in the ark of the Covenant...
> > > >
> > > > 2)
> > > > Moses laws, as reparative laws...reconciliatory laws..
> > > > as bringing man once again in accordance with God's law(#1)
> > > >
> > > > The tamid being a term that encompasses the reparative temple
> functions...by definition then the tamid does not include the 7th day
> Sabbath, which is part of the law of God itself...yet the restoration of
> the tamid would bring about a better understanding of what it its and
> what it does...a better knowledge and understanding of its functions a
> process for the reconciliation of man with God's law..which includes the
> 7th day Sabbath...
> > > >
> > > > yet we would not say that the entity "tamid" by definition
> includes the 7th day Sabbath.. as such perhaps we need to understand
> tamid for what it is defined as...is it expiatory and intercessory
> functions....?
> > > >
> > > > I am not sure what you really meant...but I am starting to see
> your point...yet within the context as above..
> > > >
> > > > God bless,
> > > > brunie
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________________
> > > > NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here.
> > > >
> http://windowslive.com/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_MB_new_hotmail_072009
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Search, add, and share the web's
> latest sports videos. Check it out.
> > >
> http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAG\
> LM_WL_QA_HM_sports_videos_072009&cat=sports
> > >
> >
>

--- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, Angela Zwicke <cricket.zw@...> wrote:
>
> The main reason I mention it is because of Ellen Whites mention of civil war
> in our country during the end times. I see a lot of uprising right now.


Yes....what she said is becoming a reality...and before our eyes...
Thanks for the information below, I do think all that is happening...
I was only saying that I will not make the culprit one or another, because all
are in the game....

God bless,
brunie


> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 2:49 PM, maranatha77 <maranatha77@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > You know this is very interesting...
> > yet I do want to say something...
> > as students of the prophecy we know what apparently the writer of this
> > article does not know...which is who is behind the scenes....
> > is not a party against the other...
> > is both parties under the control of Papal sponsored secret societies,
> > actually manipulations by the Papacy itself..
> >
> > Many are blinded to Bush and what he did as the originator of a double war,
> > and the economic collapse happening under his mandate...
> > and now blame solely Obama..the fact is that both of them are or were under
> > the control of the same religious political power...which prophecies say
> > will one day formed a New World order...a One world order...
> >
> > What this lady said is true...something is going on and it is real, but let
> > us not forget who is the controlling the puppets...
> >
> > God bless,
> > marantha
> >
> > -- In
adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com<adventism_prophecy%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Angela Zwicke <cricket.zw@> wrote:
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- *From:* maemoore <moore_mae@>
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > *From:* mpb [mailto:mpb92651@]
> > > *Sent:* Friday, July 31, 2009 6:10 PM
> > > *To:* Adams Michael; Rodtang Rolf; Alexander Barry
> > > *Subject:* Fwd: INTERESTING
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *An interesting read!*
> > > *by Pam Geller*
> > >
> > >
> > > *[image: cid:1.813281832@]*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *Pamela "Atlas" Geller began her publishing career at **The New York
> > Daily
> >
> > > News** and subsequently took over operation of **The New York Observer**
> > as
> > > Associate Publisher. She left **The Observer** after the birth of her
> > > fourth child, but remained involved in various projects including
> > American
> > > **Associates**, **Ben** Gurion University** and being Senior
> > Vice-President
> > > Strategic Planning and Performance Evaluation at The Brandeis School .**
> > > *
> > > *After 9/11, "Atlas" had the veil of oblivion violently lifted from her
> > > consciousness and immersed herself in the education and understanding of
> > > geopolitics, Islam, terror, foreign affairs and imminent threats the
> > > mainstream media and the government wouldn't cover or discuss. To wit: **
> > > *
> > > *I am a student of history. Professionally, I have written 15 books in
> > six
> > > languages, and have studied history all my life. I think there is
> > something
> > > monumentally large afoot, and I do not believe it is just a banking
> > crisis,
> > > or a mortgage crisis, or a credit crisis. Yes, these exist but they are
> > > merely single facets on a very large gemstone that is only now coming
> > into a
> > > sharper focus.** **
> > > *
> > > *Something of historic proportions is happening. I can sense it because I
> > > know how it feels, smells, what it looks like, and how people react to
> > it...
> > > Yes, a perfect storm may be brewing, but there is something happening
> > > within our country that has been evolving for about 10 - 15 years. The
> > pace
> > > has dramatically quickened in the past two.** **
> > > *
> > > *We demanded and then codified into law the requirement that our banks
> > make
> > > massive loans to people whom we knew could never pay back? Why? We
> > > learned recently that the **Federal Reserve**, which has little or no
> > real
> > > oversight by anyone, has "loaned" two trillion dollars (that is
> > > $2,000,000,000,000) over the past few months, **but will not tell us to
> > > whom or why or disclose the terms**.** **That is our money. Yours and
> > > mine. And that is three times the $700B we all argued about so
> > strenuously
> > > ** **just this past September**.** **
> > > *
> > > *Who has this money? Why do they have it? Why are the terms unavailable
> > > to us? Who asked for it? Who authorized it? I thought this was a
> > > government of "We the People," who loaned our powers to our elected
> > leaders.
> > > Apparently not.**
> > > *
> > > *We have spent two or more decades intentionally de-industrializing our
> > > economy**. Why?** **
> > > *
> > > *We have intentionally dumbed down our schools, ignored our history, and
> > no
> > > longer teach our founding documents, why we are exceptional, and why we
> > are
> > > worth preserving. Students by and large cannot write, think critically,
> > > read, or articulate. Parents are not revolting, teachers are not
> > picketing,
> > > and school boards continue to back mediocrity. Why?** **
> > > *
> > > *We have now established the precedent of protesting every close election
> > > (now violently in **California** over a proposition that is so
> > > controversial that it wants marriage to remain between one man and one
> > > woman. Did you ever think such a thing possible just a decade ago?). We
> > > have corrupted our sacred political process by allowing unelected judges
> > to
> > > write laws that radically change our way of life, and then mainstream
> > > Marxist groups like ACORN and others to turn our voting system into a
> > banana
> > > republic. To what purpose?** **
> > > *
> > > *Now our mortgage industry is collapsing, housing prices are in free
> > fall,
> > > major industries are failing, our banking system is on the verge of
> > > collapse, and **Social Security** is nearly bankrupt, as is Medicare and
> > our
> > > entire government. Our education system is worse than a joke (I teach
> > > college and know precisely what I am talking about.) The list is
> > staggering
> > > in its length, breadth, and depth. It is potentially 1929 x 10. ** **And
> > > we are at war with an enemy we cannot name for fear of offending people
> > of
> > > the same religion who cannot wait to slit the throats of your children if
> > > they have the opportunity to do so.** **
> > > *
> > > *And now we have elected a man no one knows anything about, who has never
> > > run so much as a **Dairy Queen**, let alone a town as big as **Wasilla**
> > ,
> > > Alaska** . All of his associations and alliances are with real radicals
> > in
> > > their chosen fields of employment, and everything we learn about him,
> > drip
> > > by drip, is unsettling if not downright scary (Surely you have heard him
> > > speak about his idea to create and fund a mandatory civilian defense
> > force
> > > stronger than our military for use inside our borders? No? Oh, of
> > > course. The media would never play that for you over and over and then
> > > demand he answer it. **Sarah Palin**'s pregnant daughter and $150,000
> > > wardrobe is more important.)** **
> > > *
> > > *Mr. Obama's winning platform can be boiled down to one word:
> > > Change...radical change. Why?** **
> > > *
> > > *I have never been so afraid for my country and for my children as I am
> > now.
> > > This man campaigned on bringing people together, something he has never,
> > > ever done in his professional life. In my assessment, Obama will divide
> > us
> > > along philosophical lines, push us apart, and then try to realign the
> > pieces
> > > into a new and different power structure. Change is indeed coming. And
> > > when it comes, you will never see the same nation again.** **
> > > *
> > > *And that is only the beginning.** **
> > > *
> > > *I thought I would never be able to experience what the ordinary, moral
> > > German felt in the mid-1930s. In those times, the savior was a former
> > > smooth-talking rabble-rouser from the streets, about whom the average
> > German
> > > knew next to nothing. What they did know was that he was associated with
> > > groups that shouted, shoved, and pushed around people with whom they
> > > disagreed; he edged his way onto the political stage through great
> > oratory
> > > and promises. Economic times were tough, people were losing jobs, and he
> > > was a great speaker. And he smiled and waved a lot. And people, even
> > > newspapers, were afraid to speak out for fear that his "brown shirts"
> > would
> > > bully them into submission.** **
> > > *
> > > *And then he was duly elected to office, with a full-throttled economic
> > > crisis at hand [the **Great Depression**]. Slowly but surely he seized
> > the
> > > controls of government power, department by department, person by person,
> > > bureaucracy by bureaucracy.** The kids joined a Youth Movement in his
> > > name, where they were taught what to think. How did he get the people on
> > > his side? He did it promising jobs to the jobless, money to the
> > moneyless,
> > > and goodies for the military-industrial complex.** He did it by
> > > indoctrinating the children, advocating gun control, health care for all,
> > > better wages, better jobs, and promising to re-instill pride once again
> > in
> > > the country, across **Europe** , and across the world.** **
> > > *
> > > *He did it with a compliant media - Did you know that?** And he did this
> > > all in the name of justice and...change. And the people surely got what
> > they
> > > voted for. (Look it up if you think I am exaggerating.) Read your history
> > > books. Many people objected in 1933 and were shouted down, called names,
> > > laughed at, and made fun of. When **Winston Churchill** pointed out the
> > > obvious in the late 1930s while seated in the **House of Lords** in **
> > > England** (he was not yet Prime Minister), he was booed into his seat and
> > > called a crazy troublemaker. He was right, though.** **
> > > *
> > > *Don't forget that **Germany** was the most educated, cultured country in
> > > Europe . It was full of music, art, museums, hospitals, laboratories, and
> > > universities. And in less than six years - a shorter time span than just
> > > two terms of the U. S. presidency - it was rounding up its own citizens,
> > > killing others, abrogating its laws, turning children against parents,
> > and
> > > neighbors against neighbors. All with the best of intentions, of course.
> > > The road to Hell is paved with them.** **
> > > *
> > > *As a practical thinker, one not overly prone to emotional decisions, I
> > have
> > > a choice: I can either believe what the objective pieces of evidence tell
> > > me (even if they make me cringe with disgust); I can believe what history
> > is
> > > shouting to me from across the chasm of seven decades; or I can hope I am
> > > wrong, close my eyes, have another latte and ignore what is transpiring
> > > around me.** **
> > > *
> > > *Some people scoff at me; others laugh or think I am foolish, naive, or
> > > both. Perhaps I am. But I have never been afraid to look people in the
> > eye
> > > and tell them exactly what I believe - and why I believe it. I pray I am
> > > wrong. But, I do not think I am.** **
> > > ** *
> > > *Since many of you enjoy senior citizen status or will sometime in the
> > not
> > > too distant future, I thought you might be interested in this
> > information. *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *IN GOD WE TRUST** **
> > > *
> > > *Everybody that is on this mailing list is either a senior citizen, is
> > > getting close, or knows somebody that is.** **
> > > *
> > > *Most of you know by now that the Senate version (at least) of the
> > > "stimulus" bill includes provisions for extensive rationing of health
> > care
> > > for senior citizens. The author of this part of the bill, former senator
> > > and tax evader, **Tom Daschle**, was credited today by Bloomberg with the
> > > following statement. **
> > > *
> > > *Bloomberg: "Daschle says health-care reform will not be pain free.
> > > Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age
> > > instead of treating them." **
> > > *
> > > *If this does not sufficiently raise your ire, just remember that
> > Senators
> > > and Congressmen have their own healthcare plan that is first dollar or
> > very
> > > low co-pay which they are guaranteed the remainder of their lives and are
> > > not subject to this new law if it passes.** **
> > > *
> > > *Please use the power of the Internet to get this message out. Talk it up
> > > at the grassroots level. We have an election coming up in just over a
> > year.
> > > We have the ability to address and reverse the dangerous direction the
> > > Obama administration and its allies have begun and in the interim, we
> > > can make our voices heard! Let's do it!
> > > *
> > > *If you disagree, don't do anything**.*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > =
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > "Sorrow looks back. Worry looks around. Faith looks UP!"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > "Sorrow looks back. Worry looks around. Faith looks UP!"
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> "Sorrow looks back. Worry looks around. Faith looks UP!"
>

--- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, gordon elder <directservice246@...>
wrote:
>
> All of these interpretations that associate the daily of Daniel 7 & 8 with the
sacrificial system is in effect saying the word sacrifice belongs to that text
where Sis. White say it does not belong.

Nobody is saying that...
what it is been said is that the functions represented by the daily of the OT,
continue in Christ in the NT, expiatory and mediatory functions,
intercessory...reparative functions...reconciliatory functions. The visions is
addressing those functions... (not the sacrifices per se, but what they were to
accomplished, as based in the promise of Christ, and as taken over by Christ
Himself when the time arrived....at the cross, at His death)

The "ordinances" in the OT were blotted out at the Cross, yet Christ assume
those functions, as simple as that..as such the functions continue through out
the whole time period of the 2,300 years, at which point Yom kipur takes place,
and starts the Final judgment (yet for the the living final generation the
expiatory and mediatory functions continue until the end of this judgment)...

In fact the OT ordinances found their meaning in the promise of Christ...

As such when you see the tamid lasting 2,300 years as per Daniel 8, this time
period includes both the OT and NT times and therefore the issue in question in
the vision are the "functions" per se...(not the sacrifices)..that is why the
prophetic time period can include both OT and NT times...including all the way
from MedoPersia to 1844 AD  as the point in time when Yom Kipur starts, and the
Final Judgment starts...


This tamid functions, then continue during Yom Kipur ...as well as the Final
Judgment.. there is a "restoration"  or cleansing...not only at the heavenly
level, but also at the earthly level.  At the heavenly level the saints are
vindicated the antichristian system found guilty...all before the universe......
here on earth the truth is restored...(the truth about God's law and Christ's
gospel)


Nobody has said that "the daily" as mentioned in the prophecy  needs to speak of
the sacrifices, because it does not..It speaks of what those "sacrifices and
oblations" were to accomplished in the promise of Christ, which during the NT
became an actual reality in Christ...

The daily speaks of reconciliatory laws...
bringing man in "at oneness" with the Law of God...(7th day Sabbath included).

We need not confuse the daily with the law of God...they are very different...To
say that the daily is the law of God(as the Sabbath), saying that the daily is
the Sabbath for example... (as some think it is) is saying that the ceremonial
law is the same thing as the Moral law...and it is not...

And nowhere is more evident that relationships between the daily and the law of
God that in the sanctuary itself...=

you find the daily in the court and Holy Place...
you find the sabbath in the Most Holy place, the throne of God...

"daily" is solely speaking of Christ's functions of expiation of sin and
intercession, mediation in our behalf(getting a pardon for our sins), as  Christ
as a promise, a covenant...gave power to the OT tamid, and is giving power to
the NT tamid...

The sanctuary is clear in its functions and where and when they take place...and
to it we should listen...


God bless,
maranatha!




>
> --- On Fri, 8/7/09, maranatha77 <maranatha77@> wrote:
>
> From: maranatha77 <maranatha77@...>
> Subject: [adventism_prophecy] Re: The Daily
> To: adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 4:51 PM
>
> Henry,
>
> Interesting, but I need to study it further.
>
> God bless,
>
> brunie
>
> - In adventism_prophecy@ yahoogroups. com, "Henry" <henrychills@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Dear Brunie,
>
> >
>
> > The discussion thus far has been very interesting.  I would have liked
>
> > to participate in it, but I do not have time to compose things that do
>
> > not get posted.  So here is a cut and paste thought that is not time
>
> > intensive, but might be of interest to some.  There is more, but for now
>
> > ... this:
>
> >
>
> > Daniel 8:11
>
> > Yea, he magnified [himself] even to the prince of the host, and by
>
> > him the daily [sacrifice] was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary
>
> > was cast down.
>
> > …In relation to the "daily" that the word
>
> > "sacrifice" was supplied by
>
> > man's wisdom, and does not belong to the text.1
>
> > Different translations suggest different meanings for this passage…
>
> > 1) Opposing the Prince: "Unto the prince of the host it exerteth
>
> > itself…."2
>
> > 2) Until the Prince arrives: "Yea, it magnified itself, even to the
>
> > prince…."3
>
> > 3) To be like the Prince: "It made itself great, even as great as
>
> > the lord…."4
>
> > 4) To be in place of the Prince: "He even exalted himself as high as
>
> > the
>
> > Prince of the host…."5
>
> > This little horn...<snip> identified in
>
> > Daniel 7...<snip> magnifies himself toward the pleasant land, the place
>
> > of God's Sanctuary, in opposition to Christ until His Second Advent
>
> > while it
>
> > makes itself to appear Christlike in order to usurp Christ's
>
> > authority.  Thus Daniel
>
> > 8:11 gives vital information that we especially need to understand in
>
> > the endtime.
>
> > Yea, he waxed great as a prince continually for the time appointed
>
> > then he was taken away; the place of God's sanctuary he has cast
>
> > down.6
>
> > Yea, he continually waxed great even to the Prince for the time
>
> > appointed then he was taken away; and the place of God's sanctuary
>
> > he
>
> > has cast down.7
>
> > A parallelism begins between Daniel 8:11 & v. 10.  [Added words removed
>
> > from text.]
>
> > And it waxed great, the host of heaven; and it cast down the host
>
> > and the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.8
>
> > Yea, he magnified even to the prince of the host, and by him the
>
> > daily was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.9
>
> >
>
> > 1 RH, 11/1/1850 par. 11
>
> > 2 Daniel 8:11, Young's Literal Translation
>
> > 3 Jewish Publication Society
>
> > 4 The Bible in Basic English
>
> > 5 New King James Version
>
> > <snip>
>
> > 8 Daniel 8:10
>
> > 9 Daniel 8:11
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > An alternate rendition of these verses clarifies this parallelism:
>
> > And it waxed great to the time appointed of heaven, and it died at
>
> > the time appointed; and some of the stars of earth were trampled.1  Yea,
>
> > he waxed great as a prince continually for the time appointed then he
>
> > was taken away; the place of God's sanctuary he has cast down.2
>
> > This little horn terrorizes God's people for an appointed time.
>
> > Comfort ye, comfort ye My people, saith your God.  Speak ye
>
> > comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is
>
> > accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of
>
> > the
>
> > LORD'S hand double for all her sins.  The voice of him that crieth
>
> > in the
>
> > wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert
>
> > a
>
> > highway for our God.  Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain
>
> > and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and
>
> > the
>
> > rough places plain: and the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all
>
> > flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.3
>
> > The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry?  All flesh is grass,
>
> > and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: the grass
>
> > withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth
>
> > upon
>
> > it: surely the people is grass.  The grass withereth, the flower fadeth:
>
> > but
>
> > the word of our God shall stand for ever.4
>
> > O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high
>
> > mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice
>
> > with
>
> > strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah,
>
> > Behold your
>
> > God!  Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and His arm
>
> > shall rule for Him: behold, His reward is with Him, and His work before
>
> > Him.  He shall feed His flock like a shepherd: He shall gather the lambs
>
> > with His arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those
>
> > that are with young.5
>
> > Let plain, authoritative truth be presented with decided assurance
>
> > and in the spirit of love and kindness, that the Holy Spirit's power
>
> > may
>
> > give force to the words spoken.  You are surely where many souls have
>
> > become confused.  But Christ has promised, "Lo, I am with you alway,
>
> > even unto the end."[6]  We are to claim this promise.  The Lord is
>
> > not
>
> > asleep or indifferent to our faith, and He will give knowledge and grace
>
> > to
>
> > all who will humble their hearts before Him.7
>
> >
>
> >   <snip>
>
> > 3 Isaiah 40:1-5
>
> > 4 Isaiah 40:6-8
>
> > 5 Isaiah 40:9-11
>
> > 6 Matthew 28:20
>
> > 7 21MR 436.4
>
> >
>
> > [DACR 205-206]
>
> >
>
> > Blessings upon God's saints
>
> >
>
> > henry
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --- In adventism_prophecy@ yahoogroups. com, "maranatha77"
>
> > <maranatha77@ > wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > --- In adventism_prophecy@ yahoogroups. com, Greg Goodchild greg1844@
>
> > wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > I don't think so. I think that the Continual/Daily was so important
>
> > that Satan chose to specifically attack it. Daniel 8:9-12 is the list of
>
> > specific issues that Satan chose to attack, the host - God's life giving
>
> > waterss - the people filled with the knowledge of God's Word, the stars
>
> > - the leaders of God's life giving waters, The Prince of the host - the
>
> > Very Fountain of truth sitting on the Throne in heaven, the sanctuary in
>
> > heaven and all of its life giving messages was blocked, the intercessory
>
> > ministry of Christ was diverted to the priesthood of the little horn,
>
> > and it cast down the truths of all of God's pillar doctrines, upon which
>
> > the temple sits, including the law of God. All of these issues the
>
> > Little Horn has attacked, and is continually( counterfeit Daily)
>
> > attacking. All of the truths of the Sanctuary system including Jesus'
>
> > intercessory ministry must be clarified in doctrine, and in action
>
> > through God's last day remnant host.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > But who is denying all that...?
>
> > > I am simply clarifying that within the context of the tamid,
>
> > specifically speaks of expiatory and mediatory functions...
>
> > > the rest may go under a different heading...
>
> > >
>
> > > God bless,
>
> > > brunie
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > To: adventism_prophecy@ yahoogroups. com
>
> > > > From: maranatha77@
>
> > > > Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 12:56:12 +0000
>
> > > > Subject: [adventism_prophecy ] Re: The Daily
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > --- In adventism_prophecy@ yahoogroups. com, Greg Goodchild
>
> > <greg1844@> wrote:
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Remember that in Numbers 28-29 is the great discussion of the many
>
> > applications of the Tamid - Continual/Daily. In Numbers 28:9-10 the
>
> > Continual is offered on the Sabbath. In Numbers 29:7-11 the Continual is
>
> > offered on the Day of Atonement as well. In Numbers 29:12-39 the
>
> > Continual is also offered on the Feast of Tabernacles. So the Continual
>
> > is an integral part of all the Sanctuary activities and is the baseline
>
> > of all the Sanctuary worship.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Yes...but we need to look at it from its proper context...
>
> > > > Aren't the continual or daily as refering to the ceremonial laws and
>
> > rites, and even the temple itself as means of bringing man to back to
>
> > God, to reconcialed man with God and His laws(including the 7th day
>
> > Sabbath)...such as atonement and intercessory functions...
>
> > > >
>
> > > > As such then the Tamid does not include the 7th day Sabbath, but its
>
> > restoration brings man back to God and His laws(which includes the 7th
>
> > day Sabbath).
>
> > > >
>
> > > > God bless,
>
> > > > brunie
>
> > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > To: adventism_prophecy@ yahoogroups. com
>
> > > > > From: maranatha77@
>
> > > > > Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:36:00 +0000
>
> > > > > Subject: [adventism_prophecy ] Re: The Daily
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > > > --- In adventism_prophecy@ yahoogroups. com, gordon elder
>
> > <directservice246@ > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > Dan 8:11-14
>
> > > > > > > Apparently as the cleansing commenced in the heavel
>
> > sanctuary there also commenced a cleansing in the earthly sanctuary, the
>
> > chuch , by restoring the sabbath truth and the sanctuary truth and
>
> > casting out sunday keeping and popery.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > If "the daily" speaks of intercessory functions... .how is it that
>
> > the 7th Day Sabbath can be understood as being part of it?
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Ok...I was reading EGW "Calvary"... and a thought came...
>
> > > > > I am trying to figure out the relationship of the 7th day Sabbath
>
> > as being part of the definition of Tamid...as being included in its
>
> > restoration. ...(if I understood you right)
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Since there are two basic laws...
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > 1)
>
> > > > > God's law (which includes the Sabbath), actual contained within
>
> > the Most Holy place, in the ark of the Covenant...
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > 2)
>
> > > > > Moses laws, as reparative laws...reconciliato ry laws..
>
> > > > > as bringing man once again in accordance with God's law(#1)
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > The tamid being a term that encompasses the reparative temple
>
> > functions... by definition then the tamid does not include the 7th day
>
> > Sabbath, which is part of the law of God itself...yet the restoration of
>
> > the tamid would bring about a better understanding of what it its and
>
> > what it does...a better knowledge and understanding of its functions a
>
> > process for the reconciliation of man with God's law..which includes the
>
> > 7th day Sabbath...
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > yet we would not say that the entity "tamid" by definition
>
> > includes the 7th day Sabbath.. as such perhaps we need to understand
>
> > tamid for what it is defined as...is it expiatory and intercessory
>
> > functions... .?
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > I am not sure what you really meant...but I am starting to see
>
> > your point...yet within the context as above..
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > God bless,
>
> > > > > brunie
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
>
> > > > > NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here.
>
> > > > >
>
> > http://windowslive. com/Mobile? ocid=TXT_ TAGLM_WL_ CS_MB_new_
hotmail_072009
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
>
> > > > Windows Live™ Hotmail®: Search, add, and share the web's
>
> > latest sports videos. Check it out.
>
> > > >
>
> > http://www.windowsl ive.com/Online/ Hotmail/Campaign /QuickAdd? ocid=TXT_
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>
> > LM_WL_QA_HM_ sports_videos_ 072009&cat= sports
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> >
>

--- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, "maranatha77" <maranatha77@...>
wrote:

Correction...""    ""

> The "ordinances" in the OT were blotted out at the Cross, yet Christ assume
those functions, as simple as that..as such the functions continue through out
the whole time period of the 2,300 years, at which ""ending point"  Yom kipur
""starts"", and starts the Final judgment (yet for the the living final
generation the expiatory and mediatory functions continue until the end of this
judgment)...

> In fact the OT ordinances found their meaning in the promise of Christ...

It is not possible to understand the end time abomination of Desolation without first knowing what an abomination is.  The Bible gives quite a list of abominations.  And the abomination of Desolation is an abomination that makes one desolate.

Daniel 11:31
And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Leviticus 18:29
For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.

What does it mean for those that commit abominations to be cut off?

Exodus 31:14
Ye shall keep the Sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

This text equates being put to death with being cut off.

When it is studied to its final conclusion: the endtime abomination of Desolation is the spurious sabbath being exalted in place of God's true Sabbath.  Thus those that accept the false sabbath as though it were true, will be "cut off" or become desolate.

Leviticus 26:35
As long as it lieth desolate it shall rest; because it did not rest in your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it.

Job 15:34
For the congregation of hypocrites shall be desolate, and fire shall consume the tabernacles of bribery.

Psalm 34:21
Evil shall slay the wicked: and they that hate the righteous shall be desolate.

Blessings upon God's saints

henry

--- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, "csheath326" <csheath326@...> wrote:
>
> could the Abomination spoken of in the old and new test be the roman armies led by Titus destroying Jerusalem.
>
>
> In YESHUA
>
> SCOTT
>

-- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, "maranatha77" <maranatha77@...> wrote:
> As such when you see the tamid lasting 2,300 years as per Daniel 8, this time
period includes both the OT and NT times and therefore the issue in question in
the vision are the "functions" per se...(not the sacrifices)..that is why the
prophetic time period can include both OT and NT times...including all the way
from MedoPersia to 1844 AD  as the point in time when Yom Kipur starts, and the
Final Judgment starts...

I just want to add...that the tamid never stops even during the NT times even
when attacked by the little horn..this is evident because through all the ages
Jesus has continue with His expiatiory and mediatory functions on behalf of the
sinner...

yet..when the prophecy speaks of "the daily(Christ functions) as taken away,...
this speaks solely of what is happening at the earthly level, simply that what
is taking place in heaven is falsely presented as taking place here on
earth...and interfered with by the Antichrist, which by making himself as an
intercessor in fact blurrs from the masses the truth of Christ's own functions,
usurping Christ...that is why it is known as the Antichrist..falsely taking the
place of Christ.....actually it dos much more since it tramples upon the
sanctuary itself...which includes God's law...

God bless,
maranatha...

--- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, "Henry" <henrychills@...> wrote:
  the endtime abomination of
> Desolation is the spurious sabbath being exalted in place of God's true
Sabbath.  Thus those that accept the false sabbath as though it were true, will
be "cut off" or become desolate.


Certainly...but perhaps we can open the umbrella wider...as being
an attack agains the sanctuary and its host IN GENERAL=

Dan 8:13 ... How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and
the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be
trodden under foot?


DEFINITION= transgression of desolation =  AS MEANING "to give both the
sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot"...
SANCTUARY...ALL INCLUSIVE...AS
an attack against God's law, His Sabbath being changed...
an attack againts Christ and His functions(the false tamid instituted)
an attack against his hosts...the saints...the persecutions...

Perhaps...all of those activities are included within the abomination-that
brings desolation....destruction...

God bless,
maranatha...







>
> Leviticus 26:35
> </passage/?book_id=3&chapter=26&verse=35&version=9&context=verse>
> As long as it lieth desolate it shall rest; because it did not rest in
> your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it.
>
> Job 15:34
> </passage/?book_id=22&chapter=15&verse=34&version=9&context=verse>
> For the congregation of hypocrites shall be desolate, and fire shall
> consume the tabernacles of bribery.
>
> Psalm 34:21
> </passage/?book_id=23&chapter=34&verse=21&version=9&context=verse>
> Evil shall slay the wicked: and they that hate the righteous shall be
> desolate.
>
> Blessings upon God's saints
>
> henry
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, "csheath326" <csheath326@>
> wrote:
> >
> > could the Abomination spoken of in the old and new test be the roman
> armies led by Titus destroying Jerusalem.
> >
> >
> > In YESHUA
> >
> > SCOTT
> >
>

By Avi Issacharoff : PA officials: U.S. wants borders to top peace talks

Talkback

Title: Israel continues to steal land. Name: Maureen Ann City: Bathurst State: Australia

Maan News. 8.8.09. "Backed by their army, settlers bid for expansion in three locations." Hebron settlers are planting Palestinian-owned land under military guard in an apparent take over attempt. Settlers from the illegal settlement, Kiryat Arba, moved onto land belong to Muhammad Mustafa Jaba, Al-Beqa`a area outside Hebron. Dozens of Israeli military vehicles closed the village of Kfil Haris, as they escorted settlers through the area. Kfil Haris resident, Karam Abu Hammad said Israeli troops ordered him out of his car at the entrance of the village. As he walked home another lot of soldiers ordered him off the road. Check points were erected throughout the village to ensure locals remained indoors as a herd of settlers entered the area. Maan reporters observed settler activists converging on an abandoned Israeli military base outside of Bethlehem. Settlers have been holding weekly religious services, lectures and martial arts training at the hill top base, under military guard.

Israel's Settlements program began in 1967 following their war with the Arabs, when Israel chose to ignore the Fourth Geneva Convention which it had signed, and in its violation, the violation of international law, began to settle conquered territory by force of arms.  Gain of national territory by conquest, by wars and force of arms was banned immediately following World War II, and we are all its beneficiaries, whatever one may think about Globalism and the evil forces of secret societies which have infested international institutions.  That illegitimacy does not illegitimate the rule of law between nations.

The United States of America has chosen to support the wickedness of the State of Israel in her program of systematic land theft from the Palestinian people who have had priority ancestral and aboriginal rights over the Jewish newcomers, who have forfeited their claims by virtual absence from the land for two millennia, since God evicted them by Roman arms.

Behind this wickedness stands the prince of darkness opposing the dictates of the God of the universe.  The devil knows how easy it is for him to choose the religious organizations which God has rejected, first and foremost the Jews.  Firstly, the Jewish Zionists can by the success the devil brings become convinced that they are being led by the hand of God.  Secondly, American dispensationalist Christians, the only allies of the Jewish zealots, are victims of the False Prophet of Revelation, Dispensationalism, and under the leadership of the False Prophet, have flexed their political muscle in the US Congress and in national presidential elections, where they elected G W Bush.  Then on 9/11/2001 terrorists laid low into the dust the Constitution of the United States of America no less, because that is precisely where "Homeland Security" has brought the United States of America, lead as sheep to the slaughter by the False Prophet.  The 9/11 terrorists made abundantly clear on numerous occaisions well documented even in official Bush Administration congressional investigations, that the motivation for the 9/11 terrorists was US support of Israeli Occupation of Palestinian lands.  It was Arab sympathy with the unarguably just cause of the Palestinian people which brought down New York's Twin Towers.  It was US Evangelical dispensationalists who have done everything imaginable to obscure and hide this fact from the masses of the American people.

Glaciers a canary in the coal mine of global warming

(CNN) -- U.S. scientists monitoring shrinking glaciers in Washington and Alaska reported this week that a major meltdown is under way.

The Gulcana glacier in Alaska is one of three glaciers considered a benchmark by the U.S. Geological Survey.

A 50-year government study found that the world's glaciers are melting at a rapid and alarming rate. The ongoing study is the latest in a series of reports that found glaciers worldwide are melting faster than anyone had predicted they would just a few years ago. It offers a clear indication of an accelerating climate change and warming earth, according to the authors.

Since 1959, the U.S. Geological Survey, which published the study on its Web site, has been tracking the movements of the South Cascade glacier in Washington and the Wolverine and Gulcana glaciers in Alaska. The three glaciers are considered "benchmarks" for the conditions of thousands of other glaciers because they're in different climate zones and at various elevations.

"These changes are taking place in Washington State and Alaska in three different climate regimes," said Edward Josberger, the lead researcher on the study with the USGS Washington Water Science Center in Tacoma, Washington. "So we feel it's definitely something going on, probably on a global scale, and of course, if you look at other such measurements around the world and put it all together, yes, glaciers are retreating and retreating rapidly."

In a telephone interview with CNN, Josberger called the unprecedented glacial melt the "canary in the coal mine."

The half-century record contains measurements of the amount of snow that has fallen on the glaciers each winter and on how much ice has melted off each summer. The data give scientists a sense of whether the glacier is getting more "healthy" or losing mass, Josberger said. They also indicate what's happening to mountain glaciers in other parts of the world, the scientist said.

"We feel it's definitely the signature of global change and climate warming," Josberger said.

The melt of glaciers is resulting in higher sea levels and affecting ecosystems and the rivers that emanate from these glaciers, Josberger said. "In terms of water supply available for people, Anchorage is fed by two glacially fed lakes. There are some very strong impacts that could happen."

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/08/07/global.warming/index.html

Was Jesus officiating in the heavenly sanctuary in Old Testament Times?

As I understand scripture it wasn't until after the cross that He entered the
heavenly sanctuary with His own blood there to first do the work of the DAILY in
the holy place, and later to enter the work of the Day of Atonement.

Prior to the cross everything was "A PROMISE"
there was not yet the blood.  The temple was not OPENED until Christ ascended
into heaven.

We must keep this in it's proper sequence.

1.  The sacrifice (As depicted in Daniel 9) when Christ was "cut off, but not
for himself....cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease... to seal up the
vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. "

Daniel 9 pointed us to the cross and leads us into the "anointing of the
heavenly sanctuary" where Jesus enters with His own blood to BEGIN the DAILY
phase of His ministry.

2. The DAILY (as depicted in Daniel 8) is equvialent to the DAILY ministration
in the HOLY PLACE where the priests entered beyond the first veil to minister.  
There Christ ministered "the daily" for 1810 years.
This the horn sought to eclipse from the view of the people.

The DAILY leads us to the DAY OF ATONEMENT or CLEANSING of the sanctuary which
always comes after the DAIly.

3.  The DAY OF ATONEMENT (as depicted in Daniel 7)
when Christ (the Son of Man) goes before the Ancient of Days and is given the
kingdom and dominions, and presents the names (see Rev. 3:4-5) of those who have
overcome in His name.   These inherit the kingdom Christ has won back for
humanity.  Yes, on the Day of Atonement there is still intercession and
mediation, but it's not "the daily", it is part of the DAY OF ATONEMENT.



I'm sorry but your study sounds too much like the evengelical version, not one
that teaches the sanctuary doctrine.

--- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, "maranatha77" <maranatha77@...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> -- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, "maranatha77" <maranatha77@> wrote:
> > As such when you see the tamid lasting 2,300 years as per Daniel 8, this
time period includes both the OT and NT times and therefore the issue in
question in the vision are the "functions" per se...(not the sacrifices)..that
is why the prophetic time period can include both OT and NT times...including
all the way from MedoPersia to 1844 AD  as the point in time when Yom Kipur
starts, and the Final Judgment starts...
>
> I just want to add...that the tamid never stops even during the NT times even
when attacked by the little horn..this is evident because through all the ages
Jesus has continue with His expiatiory and mediatory functions on behalf of the
sinner...
>
> yet..when the prophecy speaks of "the daily(Christ functions) as taken
away,... this speaks solely of what is happening at the earthly level, simply
that what is taking place in heaven is falsely presented as taking place here on
earth...and interfered with by the Antichrist, which by making himself as an
intercessor in fact blurrs from the masses the truth of Christ's own functions,
usurping Christ...that is why it is known as the Antichrist..falsely taking the
place of Christ.....actually it dos much more since it tramples upon the
sanctuary itself...which includes God's law...
>
> God bless,
> maranatha...
>

If these scientific advances continue, the galaxy will have no choice but to defend itself against the pollution of sin from planet earth, and to destroy the earth in self-defense.

Vilis

Kepler telescope makes quick discovery

(CNN) -- NASA's Kepler space telescope has already made a discovery, and its science operations aren't even officially under way yet.

The planet used in the test is a giant gas planet about the size of Jupiter that orbits a star called HAT P-7.

1 of 2

NASA scientists who put the telescope through a 10-day test after its March 6 launch said this week that Kepler is working well. Its ability to detect minute changes in light has enabled scientists to determine that a planet orbiting a distant star has an atmosphere, shows only one side to its sun and is so hot it glows.

Kepler's ability to take measurements that precise at such a great distance "proves we can find Earth-size planets," William Borucki, Kepler's principal science investigator told reporters at a recent briefing.

The powerful scope is looking at thousands of stars in its vision field in the Milky Way on a 3½-year mission to find planets the size of Earth and to determine how common these planets are.

The planet used in the test, a giant gas planet about the size of Jupiter, orbits a star called HAT P-7 in just 2.2 days and is 26 times closer than Earth is to the sun, according to NASA. It is called an exoplanet because it orbits a star outside the solar system.

Kepler detected the planet's atmosphere, demonstrating the telescope's capabilities and giving astronomers what NASA says is "only a taste of things to come."

"It learned that this planet is like 4,000 degrees Fahrenheit. That is so hot. And it's 4,000 degrees Fahrenheit just on one side only. The other side would be closer to 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit, " said Sara Seager, a professor at Massachusetts Institute of Technology and a Kepler science team member.

"This particular planet showed an unusual change in brightness," she said. "As the planet is orbiting the star, it goes through phases just as the moon goes through phases as seen from Earth."

"Kepler learned something new about an old planet," she said. "The new discovery was that planet is extremely hot, very, very hot. And it's very, very hot on one side, compared to the other."

Borucki compared it to "an element in your toaster or stove."

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/space/08/08/space.kepler.discovery/index.html

--- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, "Ulicia" <mydedication2000@...>
wrote:
>
> Was Jesus officiating in the heavenly sanctuary in Old Testament Times?
>
> As I understand scripture it wasn't until after the cross that He entered the
heavenly sanctuary with His own blood there to first do the work of the DAILY in
the holy place, and later to enter the work of the Day of Atonement.


I have not set otherwise...

I simply said that the expiatory and mediatory functions that Jesus took upon
during the NT, had been in place during the OT times(by sacrifices and
oblation). and that the OT tamid found its meaning in Christ...

I have agreed with you that He entered into the Holy place after the cross at
the ascension to do those expiatory and Mediatory functions by virtue of His
blood(from the court where it was sacrifice) and by virtue of being our High
Priest...

I have always said that Jesus entered in the most HOly, for Yom Kipur in 1844
AD, at the end of the 2,300 years...


> Prior to the cross everything was "A PROMISE"
> there was not yet the blood.  The temple was not OPENED until Christ ascended
into heaven.
> We must keep this in it's proper sequence.
> 1.  The sacrifice (As depicted in Daniel 9) when Christ was "cut off, but not
for himself....cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease... to seal up the
vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
> Daniel 9 pointed us to the cross and leads us into the "anointing of the
heavenly sanctuary" where Jesus enters with His own blood to BEGIN the DAILY
phase of His ministry.


yes...you have said it He brought with Him the blood...is by virtue of what He
did  in the "court" that He can have that blood in the Holy place... The truth
is that the Holy place functions, without the blood cannot be performed....As
such Jesus functions as being the heavenly Tamid reflect totally what happened
in earth in the earthly sanctuary in the courtyard and Holy Place...certainly
only once He had to die, but the blood is presented over and over to cover our
many sins right there in the Holy Place..where the saints..the church is
symbolically located, actually that is why the saints are symbolized as crying
from under the altar of the holy place......


I do not deny that Jesus is in the Holy place officiating during the Tamid, but
his blood had its origin from the courtyard..just like the blood that was carry
into the Holy place originated from the sacrifices in the courtyard...In the
blood those functions are tied, and unified....



> 2. The DAILY (as depicted in Daniel 8) is equvialent to the DAILY ministration
in the HOLY PLACE where the priests entered beyond the first veil to minister.  
There Christ ministered "the daily" for 1810 years.  This the horn sought to
eclipse from the view of the people.


But the the Tamid in DAniel 8 is said to included all the time period of the
2,300 years...as such is totally speaking of Mediatory and intercessory
functions on behalf of the sinner,  in the OT by virtue of Christ as the
promise, and in the NT by virtue of Christ as the reality...

The vision of Daniel 8 when refering to the Tamid is speaking solely of the
functions of expiation and mediation, does not address specifically, who or what
is performing those functions....yet, includes OT sacrifices and oblation as
finding its meaning in the promise of Christ....and during the NT times Jesus as
that reality=it was and it is Christ the one that made and makes such functions
possible.

The functions of Christ during the NT(expiatory and mediatory functions)
continue despite the attack and obscuration done to them by the little horn
itself( which did so during the later times of the NT era)...



>
> The DAILY leads us to the DAY OF ATONEMENT or CLEANSING of the sanctuary which
always comes after the DAIly.
>
> 3.  The DAY OF ATONEMENT (as depicted in Daniel 7)
> when Christ (the Son of Man) goes before the Ancient of Days and is given the
kingdom and dominions, and presents the names (see Rev. 3:4-5) of those who have
overcome in His name.   These inherit the kingdom Christ has won back for
humanity.  Yes, on the Day of Atonement there is still intercession and
mediation, but it's not "the daily", it is part of the DAY OF ATONEMENT.

You are right...
I simply said that the functions of mediation and expiation as done during the
2,300 years(during the tamid).. continue during Yom Kipur...the day of Judgment,
final judgment...

the daily sacrifices and Priestly oblation functioned as expiation and mediation
on behalf of the sinner...during the NT.
this daily sacrifices and oblation, stopped because Christ assume those
functions in the NT era..He became our expiatory lamb and mediatory High
priest..


We need to be able to separate
the action from the actor...eg=
In a movie=
1) the actor works
2) the work is done by the actor...

I think the prophecy is speaking... when refering to the tamid..as being the
work(mediation and intercession, expiation)...irrespective of whom is in charge
of those functions...irrespective of whether was done by the sacrifices and
oblation, or by Christ Himself...Yet we know that Christ was the only one that
made such functions possible and gave meaning to them during the OT Era and also
He is the one in charge of those functions during the NT era...

certainly is Christ the one that made those functions possible..yet Why is the
"work" the one emphasized in the prophecy of Daniel 8?
Answer= because=That is the only way that the tamid can be understood to last
the 2,300 years...as the prophecy tell us..
and the fact is that it did...=

OT....
being the first 69.5 weeks(486.5 years) the times of those functions as
represented by the sacrifices and oblation....

NT...
and the rest of the Time, NT period, it was Christ himself which took upon
Himself those functions...became the expiatory lamb and mediatory High priest...


As such...what is the meaning of the tamid?...is not the same question as who
did the tamid?

one is the meaning of the funtion....
the other is who perform that function...
totally different, yet related....


> I'm sorry but your study sounds too much like the evengelical version, not one
that teaches the sanctuary doctrine.

Could it be that you have misunderstood me? or I was not too clear?
Which ever...

why say that my version sound too much like the "evengelical" version...what is
the purpose?

Putting that aside...

The fact alone that the Tamid lasted 2,300 years(from its reinstitution in the
Jewish 2nd temple during the OT as found in the sacrifices and oblation, and as
it was continued by Christ Himself our pascal lamb and High Priest during the
latter part of this time period) that fact alone tell us  that the prophecy
addresses the all inclusive functions of expiation and mediation, certainly not
the actors per se whose specific timelines were shorter,(eg the initial 69.5
weeks=486.5 years for the sacrifices and oblation, and the later part as done by
Christ)

...that 2,300 years timeline includes both the times of the OT times of the
sacrifices and oblation, and the NT times of Jesus as the expiatory lamb and
intercessory High Priest... It is during this later phase, the most later part
of the NT phase of the 2,300 years, that the attacked to the Tamid took place
with resultant obscuration from the eyes of man during the 1290 years of Papal
Supremacy from 508 AD to 1798 AD,...times of the unchecked
abomination-desolation...(wounded in 1798 AD)...soon after(blessed is the one
that waits up to the end of the 1335 years), at the end of 1843 the blessed year
of the Hope starts, with the actual starting point of Yom kipur taking place in
1844 AD ..the Final judgment.

Sorry about the repetitions...
but apparently some clarification was needed...

Dan 8:13.....
How long shall be the vision
concerning the daily sacrifice,
and the transgression of desolation,
to give both the sanctuary and
the host to be trodden under foot?

How long is the vision  which includes =

1)
the times of the duration of the actual daily(Tamid)?

2)
which includes the times of when it was attacked by the
"transgression-desolation?
which resulted=
a)
the "sanctuary" in general and all the funtions there performed are trodden
under foot,(tamid as Christ redempetion and God's law as supreme) are attacked,
blurred and misrepresented.t..
b)
and the host representing the saints are also stepped upon... persecuted,
misrepresented, misjudged, and abused, and killed...during the times of this
trangression...


<-----------------2,300y=TAMID-general=inclusive------------> 1844AD

<----------OT tamid---------->X<----------NT tamid----------> Y kipur

<-----------------------------------------<-----abom=des-->-> cleanse

<-----------1810--------------------------<------1290y---->->time-end


It is during the later phase of the 2,300 years or NT heavenly Tamid in the
heavenly sanctuary (as per Christ's does it in the Holy) that the sanctuary in
general and the host are attacked...

1)
This does not stops the actual tamid, or Christ's expiatory and intercessory
functions, but it does blurs those functions from man eyes(as obscure by the
papal confessional, interdict, a false tamid)

2)
and this attack to the sanctuary as the throne of God found in the Most Holy is
attacked by attacking and "TRYING" TO CHANGE God's laws...the change of 7th
Sabbath for Sunday...

2)
and the host the saints are attacked...their persecutions...until the wound
neutralizes this evil force..

So the abomination desolation...attacks the sanctuary in general=

attacking the tamid as representing Christs functions in the Holy where it
brought his blood..(doing so by creating a false tamid, a false confessional)

attacking the Most Holy, as representing the throne of God and His law..

attacks, persecutes his people...which are found within the Holy place...

God bless,
brunie


Let me clarify something..it is the functions of expiation and medition that
took place during the tamid...those same functions are the ones that continue
during Yom Kipur besides the associated Final judgment....



> --- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, "maranatha77" <maranatha77@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > -- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, "maranatha77" <maranatha77@>
wrote:
> > > As such when you see the tamid lasting 2,300 years as per Daniel 8, this
time period includes both the OT and NT times and therefore the issue in
question in the vision are the "functions" per se...(not the sacrifices)..that
is why the prophetic time period can include both OT and NT times...including
all the way from MedoPersia to 1844 AD  as the point in time when Yom Kipur
starts, and the Final Judgment starts...
> >
> > I just want to add...that the tamid never stops even during the NT times
even when attacked by the little horn..this is evident because through all the
ages Jesus has continue with His expiatiory and mediatory functions on behalf of
the sinner...
> >
> > yet..when the prophecy speaks of "the daily(Christ functions) as taken
away,... this speaks solely of what is happening at the earthly level, simply
that what is taking place in heaven is falsely presented as taking place here on
earth...and interfered with by the Antichrist, which by making himself as an
intercessor in fact blurrs from the masses the truth of Christ's own functions,
usurping Christ...that is why it is known as the Antichrist..falsely taking the
place of Christ.....actually it dos much more since it tramples upon the
sanctuary itself...which includes God's law...
> >
> > God bless,
> > maranatha...
> >
>

Dan 9:25 "So you are to know and discern {that} from the issuing of a decree to
restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince {there will be} seven
weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in
times of distress.


  Dan 9:26 "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have
nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and
the sanctuary. And its end {will come} with a flood; even to the end there will
be war; desolations are determined.


  Dan 9:27 "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in
the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and
on the wing of abominations {will come} one who makes desolate, even until a
complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes
desolate."

NOTICE "MESSIAH THE PRINCE" IS DIFFERENT THEN "people of the prince to come"

  The Hebrew differentiates between the two, they are not the same.

The people of the prince is refering to the destruction of Jerusalem at the
hands of the romans..... THE NEW TESTATMENT BEARS THIS OUT...


Mat 24:15 "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken
of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader
understand), ...

QUESTION...WHAT IS THE ABOMINATION...answ Mark 13:14 and luk 21:20

Mar 13:14 "But when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing where it
should not be (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee
to the mountains.

Luk 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that
her desolation is near.

THESE 3 PASSAGES ALL RELATE TO TITUS......

Dan 12:11 "From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the
abomination of desolation is set up, {there will be} 1,290 days.


  Dan 12:12 "How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days!

  Daniel 12 has another one... the endtime abomination....what is it?

could this be related to islam and the Dome of the rock which is built exactly
on top of the HOLY OF HOLIES? Possible...why..

1290 days is also interpreted as years by many, I refer to RASHI for my
readings....

The dome of the rock was begun in 687 a.d..  1290 year after that is 1977..

what begins in 1977...Israel begins under Mnachen Began the prime minister to
resettle Jerusalem but he who lives to see 1335 years after the  A.O.D. how
blessed is he..that would be 2022.. The messiahs return...

we know that Jerusalem is trampled under foot for  seven years..under this
cenario that would put us at 2015 for the cleansing of Jerusalem and the return
of Ezekiels Temple...



In Yeshua

scott

Hi Scott.

Actually, the Hebrew suggests that Messiah the Prince is the same individual
that has the people. Notice how it says, "Messiah the Prince," then "shall
Messiah be cut off," then "people of the Prince that shall come." "Messiah the
Prince ... Messiah ... Prince." Thus, both words occur twice, and appear in the
same order in relation to each other.

"People of the Prince" can mean a number of things. It can refer to the people
being the kin of the prince. It can refer to the people being in covenant
relationship to the prince. In the case of the Messiah, the Jews were both His
kin and in covenant relationship to Him.

Zec. 9:9, 11 and Mal. 3:1 both speak of the Messiah coming in connection with a
covenant. Thus, Dan. 9's reference to a prince coming in connection with a
covenant should also refer to the Messiah.

The coming Prince is the one who confirms the covenant in Dan. 9:27. That
individual should then be the same as the Prince of the covenant of Dan. 11:22,
and therefore must be Christ.

But the question of the identity of the coming prince has nothing to do with who
perpetrated the abominations of Dan. 9:27, if that verse is translated, "on the
wings of abominations he shall make it desolate." As Mat. 22:7 pictures the
Romans as being the armies of God, so also Christ can be the Prince of Dan. 9:27
who makes the city desolate through the Romans, who bring along their
abominations in the process.

Yet the "people" of the phrase "people of the prince" are more naturally the
Jews rather than the Romans. And Josephus testifies that it was the Jews, not
the Romans, that were responsible for destroying Jerusalem. Titus was pretty
upset when the Jews started burning the temple complex.

Bob

--- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, "csheath326" <csheath326@...> wrote:
>
>
> Dan 9:25 "So you are to know and discern {that} from the issuing of a decree
to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince {there will be} seven
weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in
times of distress.
>
>
>  Dan 9:26 "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have
nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and
the sanctuary. And its end {will come} with a flood; even to the end there will
be war; desolations are determined.
>
>
>  Dan 9:27 "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in
the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and
on the wing of abominations {will come} one who makes desolate, even until a
complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes
desolate."
>
> NOTICE "MESSIAH THE PRINCE" IS DIFFERENT THEN "people of the prince to come"
>
>  The Hebrew differentiates between the two, they are not the same.
>
> The people of the prince is refering to the destruction of Jerusalem at the
hands of the romans..... THE NEW TESTATMENT BEARS THIS OUT...
>
>
> Mat 24:15 "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was
spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader
understand), ...
>
> QUESTION...WHAT IS THE ABOMINATION...answ Mark 13:14 and luk 21:20
>
> Mar 13:14 "But when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing where it
should not be (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee
to the mountains.
>
> Luk 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize
that her desolation is near.
>
> THESE 3 PASSAGES ALL RELATE TO TITUS......
>
> Dan 12:11 "From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the
abomination of desolation is set up, {there will be} 1,290 days.
>
>
>  Dan 12:12 "How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days!
>
>  Daniel 12 has another one... the endtime abomination....what is it?
>
> could this be related to islam and the Dome of the rock which is built exactly
on top of the HOLY OF HOLIES? Possible...why..
>
> 1290 days is also interpreted as years by many, I refer to RASHI for my
readings....
>
> The dome of the rock was begun in 687 a.d..  1290 year after that is 1977..
>
> what begins in 1977...Israel begins under Mnachen Began the prime minister to
resettle Jerusalem but he who lives to see 1335 years after the  A.O.D. how
blessed is he..that would be 2022.. The messiahs return...
>
> we know that Jerusalem is trampled under foot for  seven years..under this
cenario that would put us at 2015 for the cleansing of Jerusalem and the return
of Ezekiels Temple...
>
>
>
> In Yeshua
>
> scott
>

I see this differently.

Daniel (and other scripture) deals with two princes that are on opposite sides.

MESSIAH THE PRINCE
The Prince of Life. (Acts 3:15)

A Prince and a Savior, giving repentance and forgiveness of sins. (Acts 5:31)

Prince of hosts. (Daniel 8:11)

Messiah the Prince (Daniel 9:25)

Prince of the covenant (Daniel 11:22)

The great Prince who stands for the people. (Daniel 12:1)

He is KING of kings, and LORD of Lords. (Rev. 19:16)

He will win! for his will be the everlasting dominion, which shall not pass
away, and his kingdom shall not be destroyed. (Dan. 7:14)

THEN THERE IS:

THE PRINCE OF DARKNESS
Prince of demons (Matt. 12:24)

Prince of power of disobedience (Eph. 2:2)

Prince of the world who is cast out by Christ, tries to accuse and destroy
Christ, but is judged. (John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11)

Prince of the people who destroy the sanctuary, prince of desolation. (Daniel
9:26)

He is the prince who said his in his heart, "I will ascend into heaven, I will
exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the
congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the
clouds; I will be like the most High." (Isaiah 14:13,14)

But judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to
destroy it. (Dan. 7:26)




Each Prince has representatives upon earth --

Messiah the Prince has His faithful representatives

The Prince of Darkness has his representatives and one of the chief ones is
ROME.  (Rome as it evolves through all its phases in the last couple milleniums)







--- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Pickle" <bob@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Scott.
>
> Actually, the Hebrew suggests that Messiah the Prince is the same individual
that has the people. Notice how it says, "Messiah the Prince," then "shall
Messiah be cut off," then "people of the Prince that shall come." "Messiah the
Prince ... Messiah ... Prince." Thus, both words occur twice, and appear in the
same order in relation to each other.
>
> "People of the Prince" can mean a number of things. It can refer to the people
being the kin of the prince. It can refer to the people being in covenant
relationship to the prince. In the case of the Messiah, the Jews were both His
kin and in covenant relationship to Him.
>
> Zec. 9:9, 11 and Mal. 3:1 both speak of the Messiah coming in connection with
a covenant. Thus, Dan. 9's reference to a prince coming in connection with a
covenant should also refer to the Messiah.
>
> The coming Prince is the one who confirms the covenant in Dan. 9:27. That
individual should then be the same as the Prince of the covenant of Dan. 11:22,
and therefore must be Christ.
>
> But the question of the identity of the coming prince has nothing to do with
who perpetrated the abominations of Dan. 9:27, if that verse is translated, "on
the wings of abominations he shall make it desolate." As Mat. 22:7 pictures the
Romans as being the armies of God, so also Christ can be the Prince of Dan. 9:27
who makes the city desolate through the Romans, who bring along their
abominations in the process.
>
> Yet the "people" of the phrase "people of the prince" are more naturally the
Jews rather than the Romans. And Josephus testifies that it was the Jews, not
the Romans, that were responsible for destroying Jerusalem. Titus was pretty
upset when the Jews started burning the temple complex.
>
> Bob
>
> --- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, "csheath326" <csheath326@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Dan 9:25 "So you are to know and discern {that} from the issuing of a decree
to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince {there will be} seven
weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in
times of distress.
> >
> >
> >  Dan 9:26 "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and
have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city
and the sanctuary. And its end {will come} with a flood; even to the end there
will be war; desolations are determined.
> >
> >
> >  Dan 9:27 "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but
in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering;
and on the wing of abominations {will come} one who makes desolate, even until a
complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes
desolate."
> >
> > NOTICE "MESSIAH THE PRINCE" IS DIFFERENT THEN "people of the prince to come"
> >
> >  The Hebrew differentiates between the two, they are not the same.
> >
> > The people of the prince is refering to the destruction of Jerusalem at the
hands of the romans..... THE NEW TESTATMENT BEARS THIS OUT...
> >
> >
> > Mat 24:15 "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was
spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader
understand), ...
> >
> > QUESTION...WHAT IS THE ABOMINATION...answ Mark 13:14 and luk 21:20
> >
> > Mar 13:14 "But when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION standing where it
should not be (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee
to the mountains.
> >
> > Luk 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize
that her desolation is near.
> >
> > THESE 3 PASSAGES ALL RELATE TO TITUS......
> >
> > Dan 12:11 "From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the
abomination of desolation is set up, {there will be} 1,290 days.
> >
> >
> >  Dan 12:12 "How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335
days!
> >
> >  Daniel 12 has another one... the endtime abomination....what is it?
> >
> > could this be related to islam and the Dome of the rock which is built
exactly on top of the HOLY OF HOLIES? Possible...why..
> >
> > 1290 days is also interpreted as years by many, I refer to RASHI for my
readings....
> >
> > The dome of the rock was begun in 687 a.d..  1290 year after that is 1977..
> >
> > what begins in 1977...Israel begins under Mnachen Began the prime minister
to resettle Jerusalem but he who lives to see 1335 years after the  A.O.D. how
blessed is he..that would be 2022.. The messiahs return...
> >
> > we know that Jerusalem is trampled under foot for  seven years..under this
cenario that would put us at 2015 for the cleansing of Jerusalem and the return
of Ezekiels Temple...
> >
> >
> >
> > In Yeshua
> >
> > scott
> >
>

Speaking more specifically about the princes in Daniel 9 --

Which Prince?

The way to read these verse is to realize they are speaking of two parallel subjects: the city and it's temple, and the coming Messiah.
(A) Speaks of the Messiah
(B) of the city.

9:25
Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem
A. Until Messiah the Prince, there shall be 7 weeks, 62 weeks,
B. The street will be built again and the wall even in troublesome times.

9:26
A. And after the 62 weeks Messiah shall be cut off but not for Himself.
B. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destory the city and the sanctuary and the end..war..desolation..

9:27
A. He shall cofirm a covenant with many for one week, in the midst of week sacrifices cease.
B. One will come who makes desolate even until the consummation.

And Rome is the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. Rome fulfilled the prophecy several years later, completely destroying Jerusalem and the sanctuary building in 70 A.D. as well as filling our history book with accounts of "desolation" against the Jews for hundreds of years.

Notice that in each segment in which the destructive prince is mention, it says he WILL COME, he's still coming in the second reference to him. Notice too, in Daniel 11:22, the one who comes "with a flood" to "overthrow" is NOT the Prince of the Covenant! The Prince of the Covenant is "broken" by that flood. Thus the "people of the prince who is to come with a flood" in Daniel 9, are the Roman's who also crucified Christ. It was the Romans who were to come and who DESTROYED THE TEMPLE AND THE CITY after the covenant was confirmed with the Jewish nation for "one week" yet they rejected it.

The same choice faces the world today.

Which prince do we chose to accept and follow.
The last day issues have striking resemblance to the situation in Christ's time.  

Sadly the mob cryed out -- "We have no king but Caesar" and they urged the Romans to crucify Jesus.

In the last days the whole world will be following and worshipping the beast (Papal authority) and the image of the beast (See Rev. 13)  Only a remnant will choose to stay faithful to God.

Hi Bob...

Lets look at two items one, the meaning of the word, and two the structure of
the hebrew....here is how the majority ot the time the king james interperet the
hebrew word ...nagiyd


1) leader, ruler, captain, prince

a) ruler, prince

b) prince-overseer

c) ruler (in other capacities)

d) princely things


Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 44 AV — ruler 20, prince 9,
captain 6, leader 4, governor 3, nobles 1, excellent things 1 Gesenius's Lexicon
(Help)



heres how they translate people...
1) nation, people

a) people, nation

b) persons, members of one's people, compatriots, country-men

2) kinsman, kindred


Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 1862 AV — people 1836,
nation 17, people + 01121 4, folk 2, Ammi 1, men 1, each 1 Gesenius's Lexicon
(Help)

your  loose interpretation falls even short of the King jame....

in vs 25 we see in most translations the word Messiah and Prince
capitilized...because the hebrew h4899 משיח mashiyach  
is a messianic term...


Dan 9:25 "So you are to know and discern {that} from the issuing of a decree to
restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince {there will be} seven
weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in
times of distress.

In vs26 prince is part of a prepositional phrase refering back to the subject
"people" neither one in any hebrew refering to the messiah...


two different subjects in vs 25,26....vs 26 prince is better translated
leader....see above.....but the mistake by the king james people  and you was to
link the two, they are not the same,,,pick up any hebrew bible and read.....

  Dan 9:26 "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have
nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and
the sanctuary. And its end {will come} with a flood; even to the end there will
be war; desolations are determined.

Josepheus in war of the jews does note that there was much fighting among the
jews. and they did do some damage, but he does not associate the destruction of
Jerusalem with them.....


And you dont even have to go to Josephus,, just look at the new
testament....again these are key to daniel. they are all describing the same
cenario differently

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of
by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him
understand:)

Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by
Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth
understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:


Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that
the desolation thereof is nigh.

Matt 24:15 tells us were to look for the abomination "the holy place"

Mark 13:14 tells them it shouldnt be there and they should flee

Luke 21:20 tells us what the  Abamination is "Armies"

and whose armies according to Josephus.....Roman ..specifically the most
dangerous legions...I believe the 12th

Most people interpret Matt 24:15 holy place to mean the temple,, but any simple
study will prove that incorrect. lets look at the word for  Place..

place,   g5117 τόπος topos
topos
  Pronunciation

to'-pos (Key) you can see and here the word in english for topography...which
does not mean building,,,but refers to land or terrritory ect... to interpret it
as The Temple is wrong...

Here is the King James definitions

Part of Speech
masculine noun

  Root Word (Etymology)

apparently a primary word

TDNT Reference
8:187,1184
  Vines
View Entry


Outline of Biblical Usage 1) place, any portion or space marked off, as it were
from surrounding space

a) an inhabited place, as a city, village, district

b) a place (passage) in a book

2) metaph.

a) the condition or station held by one in any company or assembly

b) opportunity, power, occasion for acting

Click for Synonyms


Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 92 AV — place 80, room 5,
quarter 2, licence 1, coast 1, where 1, plain + 3977 1, rock + 5138 1 Thayer's
Lexicon (Help)

  so it would read " when you see the abomination standing in the Holy land or
city or Jerusalem...not some building....

So the people of the prince(leader) is the roman armies



In YESHUA

scott