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#64351

From: "Sunil" <astro_tellerkerala@...>
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2012 11:10 am
Subject: Re: siddhars_of_the_west

astro_teller...

Send Email

Dear Santhosh Ji

thanks for posting this Link

is it Not a surprise that this kind of sidha s some of whom are equaly claimed as indian s Like whom alexander met daiogenes ( it says he met him in india ) all started after the missionary work of budhist monks and budhism has infleunced all civilised Known world ,so many words in english we can see pali words thera putra is therapy ( budhists were good physicials eqauly in Human ,animal and plant medicine ) ,bodhi satwa has become Bosaaf and then Josheph etc is not a simple co incidence

it says the pythogoras is peetha ( yellow ) gurus ( masters ) who is budhist monks itself as many of them wear yellow dress

any way thanks for posting this Link

Is greece is western country ?? if so why not it realy influenced the west ?? why west waited for 15th century to open up in reality ??

rgrds sunil nair

--- In ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com, Santhosh Panicker <santhosh10@...> wrote:
>
>
> An interesting list of phylosophers of the west.
>
>
> http://www.nandhi.com/siddhars_of_the_west.htm
>
> Regards
> Santhosh
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (4)

#64357

From: Santhosh Panicker <santhosh10@...>
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2012 1:18 pm
Subject: Re: [AIA] Re: siddhars_of_the_west

santhosh10

Send Email

I agree Sunil ji,

lot of corruption in the history.\

I just saw this link in a mail in my inbox.

http://www.aroh.in/aroh_news_details.php?storyID=219

Have you seen this news about Neelam ji?

Congrats Neelam ji.

Regards

Santhosh

From: Sunil <astro_tellerkerala@...>
To: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 9 April 2012 2:10 PM
Subject: [AIA] Re: siddhars_of_the_west

Dear Santhosh Ji

thanks for posting this Link

it says the pythogoras is peetha ( yellow ) gurus ( masters ) who is budhist monks itself as many of them wear yellow dress

any way thanks for posting this Link

Is greece is western country ?? if so why not it realy influenced the west ?? why west waited for 15th century to open up in reality ??

rgrds sunil nair

Reply | Messages in this Topic (4)

#64358

From: "Sunil" <astro_tellerkerala@...>
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2012 1:27 pm
Subject: [AIA] Re: siddhars_of_the_west

astro_teller...

Send Email

Santhosh Ji

thanks for posting the Link of neelam Ji,actualy last few weeks back i just had a talk with her and she was so busy those days and the chat was in between so many tele calls

happy to hear that she is Honored and she deserve it too

My congratulations to neelam Ji and let god giv her more opportunity to serve more humans

rgrds sunil nair

--- In ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com, Santhosh Panicker <santhosh10@...> wrote:
>
> �
> I agree Sunil ji,
> lot of corruption in the history.\
> �
> I just saw this link in a mail in my inbox.
> http://www.aroh.in/aroh_news_details.php?storyID=219
> �
> Have you seen this news about Neelam ji?
> �
> Congrats Neelam ji.
> �
> Regards
> Santhosh
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Sunil astro_tellerkerala@...
> To: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, 9 April 2012 2:10 PM
> Subject: [AIA] Re: siddhars_of_the_west
>
>
>
> �
>
>
>
> Dear Santhosh Ji�
>
> thanks for posting this Link�
>
>
> is it Not a surprise that this kind of sidha s some of whom are equaly claimed as indian s � Like whom alexander met daiogenes ( it says he met him in india ) � all started after the missionary work of budhist monks � and budhism has infleunced all civilised Known world ,so many words in english we can see pali words thera putra is therapy � ( budhists were good physicials eqauly in Human ,animal and plant medicine ) ,bodhi satwa has become Bosaaf and then Josheph etc is not a � simple co incidence�
>
> it says the pythogoras is peetha ( yellow ) � gurus ( masters ) who is budhist monks itself as many of them wear yellow dress�
>
> any way thanks for posting this Link �
>
> Is greece is western country ?? if so why not it realy influenced the west ?? why west waited for 15th century to open up in reality ??
>
> rgrds sunil nair�
>
>
> --- In ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com, Santhosh Panicker santhosh10@ wrote:
> >
> > �
> > An interesting list of phylosophers of the west.
> > �
> > �
> > http://www.nandhi.com/siddhars_of_the_west.htm
> > �
> > Regards
> > Santhosh
> >
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (4)

#64359

From: Sreenadh OG <sreesog@...>
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2012 2:51 pm
Subject: The First Philosophers/ Siddhars of the West

sreesog

Send Email

Source: http://www.nandhi.com/siddhars_of_the_west.htm
=======================

Squashed version edited by Glyn Hughes � 2008

Thales of Miletus (620-540 BC)
Thales was the first man to whom the name of Wise was given. He wrote two books about the solstice and the equinox, for he is said to have been the first who studied astronomy, and who foretold the eclipses and motions of the sun. He asserted water to be the principle of all things, that the world had life, and was full of spirits: they say that it was he who first divided the year into three hundred and sixty-five days. He never had any teacher except the priests of Egypt. Hieronymus says that he measured the Pyramids: watching their shadow, and calculating when they were of the same size as that was. He said that there was no difference between life and death. "Why, then," said one to him, "do not you die?" "Because," said he, "it does make no difference." When he was asked what was very difficult, he said, "To know one's self." And what was easy, "To advise another." When asked how men might live most virtuously, he said, "If we never do ourselves what we blame in others. The apophthegm, "know yourself," is his." from: Diogenes Laertius - Lives of the Eminent Philosophers

Anaximander of Miletus (610-546 BC)
Anaximander, the son of Praxiadas, used to assert that the principle and primary element of all things was the Infinity, giving no exact definition as to whether he meant air or water, or anything else. And he said that the parts were susceptible of change, but that the whole was unchangeable; and that the earth lay in the middle, being of a spherical shape. The moon, he said, had a borrowed light, from the sun; and the sun he affirmed to be the purest possible fire. He was the first discoverer of the gnomon, he also made clocks and was the first person to draw a map of the earth and sea, and to make a globe. from: Diogenes Laertius - Lives of the Eminent Philosophers

Anaximenes of Miletus (585-525 BC)
Anaximenes said that the principle of everything was the air, and the Infinite; and that the stars moved not under the earth, but around the earth. He corresponded by letter with Pythagoras. from: Diogenes Laertius - Lives of the Eminent Philosophers

Pythagoras (582-496 BC)
Pythagoras was the son of Mnesarchus, an engraver, a native of Samos. As a young man he left his country, and learned the Greek, the barbarian, the Egyptian and the Cretan sacred mysteries. He returned to Samos, and finding it under the ruthless rule of Polycrates, fled to Crotona in Italy where he established laws and gained a very high reputation, together with his scholars, who were about three hundred.
Heraclides Ponticus says that Pythagoras accounted himself the son of the God Mercury, who had given him the gifts of perfect memory, and to allow his soul to transmigrate into whatever plants or animals it pleased. Pythagoras wrote books on Education, on Politics, and on Natural Philosophy. He forbade men to pray for themselves, because they do not know what is good for them. He asserted that the property of friends is common, and that friendship is equality. He is said to have been of the most dignified appearance, and to have had a golden thigh.
It was Pythagoras who carried geometry to perfection, when he discovered that the square of the hypotenuse of a right-angled triangle is equal to the squares of the sides containing the right angle, which mystery, according to Aristoxenus, the Pythagoreans held secret.
He was noted for symbolic sayings, as; "Do not stir the fire with a sword." "Do not sit down on a bushel." "Do not devour your heart." "Do not aid men in putting down a burden, but in lifting one." "Efface the traces of a pot in the ashes." "Do not wipe a seat with a lamp." "Do not piss in the sunshine." "Do not walk in the main street." "Do not cherish swallows under your roof." Now 'not to stir fire with a sword' meant, not to provoke the anger of powerful men; not to sit on a bushel is to have an equal care for the present and for the future. And more
He used to have his disciples repeat each evening: "In what have I transgress'd? What have I done? - What that I should have done have I omitted?" He taught that people should not make their friends enemies, but to render their enemies friends. Another rule was not to destroy or injure a cultivated tree, nor any animal either which does not injure men. He forbade his disciples to eat beans.
Alexander says, in his Successions of Philosophers, that he found the following dogmas of Pythagoras: That the monad was the beginning of everything; that light and darkness, and cold and heat, and dryness and moisture, were equally divided in the world; that the air around the earth was immoveable, and pregnant with disease; and that the soul is something different from life and is immortal. He also says that the soul of man is divided into three parts; into intuition (nous), and reason (phren) and mind (thymos)
Of how Pythagoras died, one says that he was trying to escape his enemies he refused to cross a field of beans, and so he was murdered.
from: Diogenes Laertius - Lives of the Eminent Philosophers

While at the Olympic games, an eagle stopped, and came down to Pythagoras. After stroking her awhile, he released her. Meeting with some fishermen who were drawing in their nets heavily laden with fishes from the deep, he predicted the exact number of fish they had caught. At Tarentum seeing an ox taking beans, Pythagoras went and whispered in the ox's ear. The beast would never touch beans thereafter.
He himself could hear the harmony of the Universe, and understood the universal music of the spheres, and of the stars which move in concert with them, and which we cannot hear because of the limitations of our weak nature. Pythagoras went to Metapontum, and everywhere arose great mobs against him, of which even now the inhabitants make mention, calling them the Pythagorean riots. from: Porphyry, Life of Pythagoras, c300AD

Xenophanes (570-470 BC)
Xenophanes was the son of Dexius, a citizen of Colophon. Having been banished from his own country, he lived at Zande, in Sicily, and at Catana.
He wrote poems in verse; and he wrote iambics against the things Hesiod and Homer said about the Gods.
His doctrine was, that there were four elements of existing things; and an infinite number of worlds, which were all unchangeable. He thought that the clouds were produced by the vapour which was borne upwards from the sun. That the essence of God was of a spherical form, in no respect resembling man; that the universe could see, and that the universe could hear, but could not breathe; and that it was in all its parts intellect, and wisdom, and eternity. He was the first person who asserted that everything which is produced is perishable, and that the soul is a spirit. from: Diogenes Laertius - Lives of the Eminent Philosophers

But if (horses) or cows or lions had hands
To draw and produce works of art as men do,
Horses would draw the figures of gods like horses
And cows like cows, and they would make their bodies
Just as the form which they each have themselves.
Ethiopians say that their gods are snub-nosed and black,
And Thracians that theirs have blue eyes and red hair.
from: The Fragments of Xenophanes, in 'The First Philosophers of Greece', trans Arthur Fairbanks, (1898)

Leucippus (c550 BC)
Leucippos was a native of Elea, but some say, of Abdera; and others, Melos.
He was a pupil of Zeno. And his principal doctrines were, that all things were infinite, and were interchanged with one another; and that the universe was a vacuum, and full of bodies; also that the worlds were produced by bodies falling into the vacuum, and becoming entangled with one another; and that the nature of the stars originated in motion, according to their increase; also, that the sun is borne round in a greater circle around the moon; that the earth is carried on revolving round the centre: and that its figure resembles a drum; he was the first philosopher who spoke of atoms as principles. from: Diogenes Laertius - Lives of the Eminent Philosophers

Heraclitus (535-475 BC) "The Weeping Philosopher"
Heraclitus was a citizen of Ephesus. He was above all men of a lofty and arrogant spirit, as is plain from his writings, in which he says that he knows everything, and had taught everything to himself. But some people affirmed that he had been a pupil of Xenophanes.
There is a book of his extant, which is about nature generally, and it is divided into three discourses; on the Universe, Politics, and Theology. He deposited this book in the temple of Diana, having written it intentionally in an obscure style, in order that only those who were able men might comprehend it, and that it might not be exposed to ridicule at the hands of common people. Theophrastus asserts, that, out of melancholy, he left some of his works half finished.
His doctrines are of this kind. That fire is an element, and that it is by the changes of fire that all things exist; being engendered sometimes by rarity, sometimes by density. But he explains nothing clearly. He also says, that everything is produced by contrariety, and that everything flows on like a river; that the universe is finite, and that there is one world, and that is produced from fire, and that the whole world is in its turn again consumed by fire at certain periods, and that all this happens according to fate. from: Diogenes Laertius - Lives of the Eminent Philosophers

Parmenides of Elea (510-440 BC)
Parmenides was a pupil of Xenophanes. He was the first person who asserted that the earth was of a spherical form; and that it was situated in the centre of the universe. He also taught that there were two elements, fire and earth; and that one of them occupies the place of the maker, the other that of the matter. He also used to teach that man was originally made out of clay. Another of his doctrines was, that the mind and the soul were the same thing, as we are informed by Theophrastus. from: Diogenes Laertius - Lives of the Eminent Philosophers

Anaxagoras (500-428 BC)
Anaxagoras was a citizen of Clazomenae, a pupil of Anaximenes, and was the first philosopher who attributed mind to matter, saying: "All things were mixed up together; then Mind came and arranged them all in distinct order."
He asserted that the sun was a mass of burning iron, greater than Peloponnesus, and that the moon contained houses, and also hills and ravines: and that the primary elements of everything were similarities of parts; that the milky way was a reflection of the light of the sun. The comets he considered to be a concourse of planets emitting rays: and the shooting stars he thought were sparks. The winds he thought were caused by the rarification of the atmosphere, which was produced by the sun. Thunder, he said, was produced by the collision of the clouds; and lightning by the rubbing together of the clouds. Earthquakes, he said, were produced by the return of the air into the earth. All animals he considered were originally generated out of moisture, and heat, and earthy particles: and subsequently from one another. And males he considered were derived from those on the right hand, and females from those on the left. They say, also, that he predicted a fall of the stones which fell near Aegospotami. He went once to Olympia wrapped in a leathern cloak as if it were going to rain; and it did rain. And they say that he once replied to a man who asked him whether the mountains at Lampsacus would ever become sea, "Yes, if time lasts long enough."
Sotion says, that he was persecuted for impiety by Cleon because he said that the sun was a fiery ball of iron. from: Diogenes Laertius - Lives of the Eminent Philosophers

Zeno of Elea (490-430 BC)
Zeno was by adoption the son of Parmenides. Aristotle, in his Sophist, says that he was the inventor of dialectics, and he was a man of the greatest nobleness of spirit, both in philosophy and in politics. There are also many books extant, which are attributed to him, full of great learning and wisdom.
He, opposing Nearches the tyrant, was arrested, as we are informed by Heraclides, and he named all the friends of the tyrant as his accomplices, and then said that he wished to whisper something privately to the tyrant; and when he came near him he bit him, and would not leave his hold. Hermippus says that Zeno was put into a mortar, and pounded to death.
His chief doctrines were, that there were several worlds, and that there was no vacuum; that the nature of all things consisted of hot and cold, and dry and moist, these elements interchanging their substances with one another; that man was made out of the earth, and that his soul was a mixture of the before-named elements in such a way that no one of them predominated.
They say that when he was reproached, he was indignant; and that when some one blamed him, he replied, "If when I am reproached, I am not angered, then I shall not be pleased when I am praised." from: Diogenes Laertius - Lives of the Eminent Philosophers

Empedocles (490-430 BC)
Empedocles, as Hippobotus relates, was a citizen of Agrigentum. Timaeus, in his ninth book, relates that he was a pupil of Pythagoras, saying that he was convicted of having divulged his secret doctrines, in the same way as Plato was, and therefore that he was forbidden thenceforth to attend his school.
Satyrus tells us that he used to say that he had been present when Empedocles was practising magic. Heraclides says that Empedocles kept the corpse of a dead woman for thirty days dead, and yet free from corruption; on which account he has called himself a physician and a prophet.
Aristotle says, that he was a most liberal man, since he constantly refused sovereign power when it was offered to him.
Hippobotus says that he went away as if he were going to mount Etna; and that when he arrived at the crater of fire he leaped in, and disappeared, wishing to establish a belief that he had become a God. But afterwards the truth was detected by one of his slippers having been dropped.
The following were some of his doctrines. He used to assert that there were four elements, fire, water, earth, and air. And that that is friendship by which they are united, and discord by which they are separated. And he asserts that the sun is a vast assemblage of fire, and that it is larger than the moon. And the moon is disk-shaped; and that the heaven itself is like crystal; and that the soul inhabits every kind of form of animals and plants.
His writings on Natural Philosophy and his Purifications extend to five thousand verses; and his Medical Poem to six hundred. from: Diogenes Laertius - Lives of the Eminent Philosophers

Melissus of Samos (fl c450 BC)
Melissus was a pupil of Parmenides; but he also had conversed with Heraclitus. He was a man greatly occupied in political affairs, and held in great esteem among his fellow citizens; on which account he was elected admiral. And he was admired still more on account of his private virtues. His doctrine was, that the Universe was infinite, unsusceptible of change, immoveable, and one, being always like to itself, and complete; and that there was no such thing as real motion, but that there only appeared to be such. As respecting the Gods, too, he denied that there was any occasion to give a definition of them, for that there was no certain knowledge of them. from: Diogenes Laertius - Lives of the Eminent Philosophers

Democritus (460-370 BC)
Democritus was a native of Abdera, or some say a citizen of Miletus.
He was a pupil of some of the Magi and Chaldaeans. He was one of three brothers who divided their patrimony among them; and he took the smaller portion, as it was in money, which he required for the purpose of travelling. And Demetrius says that his share amounted to more than a hundred talents, and that he spent the whole of it.
He also says, that he was so industrious a man, that he cut himself off in a small cottage in the garden of his house. "He used to practise himself," says Antisthenes, "in testing perceptions in various manners; sometimes retiring into solitary places, and spending his time even among tombs."
Now his principal doctrines were these. That atoms and the vacuum were the beginning of the universe; and that everything else existed only in opinion. That the worlds were infinite, created, and perishable. But that nothing was created out of nothing, and that nothing was destroyed so as to become nothing. That the atoms produced all the combinations that exist; fire, water, air, and earth. The chief good he asserts to be cheerfulness. These were his principal opinions.
Of his books, Thrasylus has given a catalogue;The Pythagoras; a treatise on the Disposition of the Wise Man; an essay on those in the Shades Below; the Tritogeneia; a treatise on Manly Courage or Valour; an essay on Cheerfulness; a volume of Ethical Commentaries; The Great World; A treatise on the Planets; the first book on Nature; two books on the Nature of Man, and others. from: Diogenes Laertius - Lives of the Eminent Philosophers

Protagoras (481-420 BC)
Protagoras was a native of Abdera, as Heraclides Ponticus tell us. But, according to Eupolis, he was a native of Teos. He was a pupil of Democritus.
He was surnamed Wisdom, and was the first person who asserted that in every question there were two sides to the argument exactly opposite to one another. And he used to employ them in his arguments, being the first person who did so. But he began something in this manner: "Man is the measure of all things: of those things which exist as he is; and of those things which do not exist as he is not." And he used to say that nothing else was soul except the senses, as Plato says, in the Theaetetus; and that everything was true. And another of his treatises he begins in this way: "Concerning the Gods, I am not able to know to a certainty whether they exist or whether they do not. For there are many things which prevent one from knowing, especially the obscurity of the subject, and the shortness of the life of man." And on account of this beginning of his treatise, he was banished by the Athenians. And they burnt his books in the market-place, calling them in by the public crier, and compelling all who possessed them to surrender them.
He was the first person who demanded payment of his pupils; fixing his charge at a hundred minae. He was also the first person who gave a precise definition of the parts of time; and who explained the value of opportunity, and who instituted contests of argument, and who armed the disputants with the weapon of sophism. He too, it was, who first invented that sort of argument which is called the Socratic, and practised regular discussions on set subjects. The writings of his which are still extant are these: a treatise on the Art of Contention; one on Wrestling; one on Mathematics; one on a Republic; one on Ambition; one on Virtues, and others. from: Diogenes Laertius - Lives of the Eminent Philosophers

Diogenes of Sinope "The Cynic" (c412-323 BC)
Diogenes was a native of Sinope, who was forced to flee from his native city, as his father kept the public bank there, and had adulterated the coinage. He came to Athens, and betook himself to a simple mode of life, living in a barrel which he found in the Temple of Cybele, for his house.
He was very violent in expressing his haughty disdain of others. He used to say, "when he beheld pilots, and physicians, and philosophers, he thought man the wisest of all animals; but when again he beheld interpreters of dreams, and soothsayers, and those who listened to them, and men puffed up with glory or riches, then he thought that there was not a more foolish animal than man." Diogenes once asked Plato for some wine, who sent him an entire jar full; and Diogenes said to him, "Will you, if you are asked how many two and two make, answer twenty? On one occasion, when no one came to listen to him while he was discoursing seriously, he began to whistle. And then when people flocked round him, he reproached them for coming with eagerness to folly, but being indifferent about good things. When some people said to him, "You are an old man, and should rest for the remainder of your life;" "Why so?" replied be, "suppose I had run a long distance, ought I to stop when I was near the end, and not rather press on?" Once, while he was sitting in the sun in the Craneum, Alexander was standing by, and said to him, "Ask any favour you choose of me." And he replied, "Cease to shade me from the sun." A man once asked him what was the proper time for supper, and he made answer, "If you are a rich man, whenever you please; and if you are a poor man, whenever you can." Having lighted a candle in the day time, he said, "I am looking for a man." On one occasion he stood under a fountain, and as the bystanders were pitying him, Plato, who was present, said to them, "If you wish really to show your pity for him, come away;" intimating that he was only acting thus out of a desire for notoriety.
When asked what he would take to let a man give him a blow on the head?" he replied, "A helmet." Seeing a youth smartening himself up, he said to him, "If you are doing that for men, you are miserable; and if for women, you are profligate." When asked what wine he liked to drink, he said, "That which belongs to another,"
Once Alexander came and stood by him, and said, "I am Alexander, the great king." " And I," said he, "am Diogenes the dog." And when he was asked why he was called a dog, he said, "Because I fawn upon those who give me anything, and bark at those who give me nothing, and bite rogues."
He said that in reality everything was a combination of all things. For that in bread there was meat, and in vegetables there was bread, and so there were some particles of all other bodies in everything, communicating by invisible passages and evaporating. Music and geometry, and astronomy, and all things of that kind, he neglected, as useless and unnecessary. But he was a man very happy in meeting arguments, as is plain from what we have already said.
His own greatest friends, as Antisthenes tells us in his Successions, sanction the story of his having died from holding his breath. Several books are attributed to him. from: Diogenes Laertius - Lives of the Eminent Philosophers

=======================

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#64367

From: vchiranjiv@...
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2012 4:46 pm
Subject: Re: [AIA] Father of medicine - Hippocrates and his importance to astrology

vchiranjiv

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Maybe when astrology was relied on by people as a cure all and end all to all maladies and thus failed tests of unrealistic expectations.
The critics of astro usually argue that if everything is preordained then ... This free will argument is due to lack of understanding by believers and non believers alike.

While all that is to happen is predetermined it will happen so after u (re)act in such a way.

Surrender is of the motive. Then there will be action. That which is not done with a selfish reason does not have binding karma.
That which is just a reaction is only adding to the loop of karma's and action reactions.

This is IMHO.

Sent on my BlackBerry� from Vodafone

From: "divine_seeker" <divine_seeker@...>

Sender: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com

Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2012 15:39:53 -0000

To: <ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com>

ReplyTo: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [AIA] Father of medicine - Hippocrates and his importance to astrology

As we all know, each modern doctor takes an Hippocrates oath before starting the professional practice after the academic training.

It is interesting to note that he considered astrology as a vital tool for the best treatment for each individual. His famous quote --- A physician without a knowledge of Astrology has no right to call himself a physician.

He has given important considerations for conducting surgeries etc.

I wonder when astrology was dropped as a factor for consideration from medical professionals. Was it due to the bias of emperors against astrology or astrology with medicine became too complex?

Regards,
Harsha

Reply | Messages in this Topic (5)

#64374

From: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya@...>
Date: Mon Apr 9, 2012 7:51 pm
Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Re: Valmikis' account of Lord Ram is stunningly accurate (Sic)!

sunil_bhatta...

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Dear Mr Sudhir Architect,

This has reference to the letter you wrote to the Hinducivilization group on the above subject. Some skeptics, as is their habit, will go on criticizing people without ever seriously trying to find the right solutions to the pressing problems. It is true that Bhatnagar wanted the people to accept his date of Lord Ramayana, without ever caring to reply to the objections. He published his wrong findings to make quick name and money. On the other hand Dr. Vartak, an honest scholar, used precessional data to zero in on the date of Lord Ram around the 74th century BCE. Dr. vartak also quoted Rajavali for some data linked to the date of Lord Buddha. However unfortunately Dr. Vartak could not interpret the Rajavali data properly as he did not have the true date of Lord Buddha. The recent studies carried out by Prof. Achar using unambiguous astronomical data and my paper on the studies on the Dotted records presented in the WAVES conference (in Florida in 2008) show that Lord Buddha indeed lived in the 19th century BCE and this is also in line with the puranic chronology. With the correct date of Buddha combined with the Rajavali data quoted by Dr. Vartak, one can see that Lord Ram indeed lived in the 74th century BCE.

Dr. Vartak could find only an approximate date of Lord Ram as he did not appear to have cared to note that Lord Ram was born on a Shukla-Navami tithi and for that the Moon will be ahead of the Sun by 96 to 108 degrees. Had he cared for this and had he used the zodiac with 28 nakshatras used in the pre-Mahabharata days and also had he had access to the sophisticated astronomical software, which give the Delta-T values he could have found the correct date. It is by taking all the required factors into account I gave my date in the 73rd century BCE, Which Mr. Kaul has been referring to as the date of Bhattacharya-Ram.

For your perusal and ready reference I am quoting below from Dr. Vartak's work as is available in the Internet.

Quote

Mahabharat states that Sage Vishwamitra started counting nakshatras from Shravana (Aadiparva A.71 and Ashwamedha A.44) and a new reference to time measurement thus initiated. According to the old tradition, the first place was assigned to the nakshatra prevelant on the Vernal Equinox. Vishwamitra modified this and started measuring from the nakshatra at the Autumnal Equinox. Sharvan was at this juncture at about 7500 B.C, which is therefore the probable period when Vishwamitra existed and also that of the Ramayanic Era.

Formerly, the year initiated with the Varsha-Rutu (season) and therefore was termed "Varsha". Ramayan shows that the flag was being hoisted to celebrate the new year on Ashwin Paurnima (Kishkindha 16/37, Ayodhya 74/36). Ayodhya 77 mentions that the flags were defaced and damaged due to heat and showers. These descriptions point to the fact that their new year started on the Summer Solstice when heat and rain simultaneously exist. The Summer Solstice fell on Ashwin Full Moon, so the Sun was diagonally opposite at Swati nakshatra. This astral configuration can be calculated to have occured around 7400 B.C.

Kishkindha 26-13 describes the commencement of the rainy season. In shloka 14, refers to Shravan as "Varshika Poorva Masa". Kishkindha 28/2 clearly shows that the rainy season began in Bhadrapada Masa. Further description "Heated by the Sun and showered by new waters, the earth is expelling vapours" (Kish.26/7) points to Bhadrapada as premonsoon. Kish.28/17 tells that there was alternate sun-shine and shadowing by the clouds. Kish.28/14 describes the on-coming rainy season. Thus Bhadrapada was the month of pre-monsoon, that is before 21st June or Summer Solstice. Naturally, months of Ashwin and Kartika formed the rainy season. It is therefore concluded that Ashwin Full Moon coincided with Summer Solstice, that year being 7400 B.C.

Rama started forest-exile in Chaitra and ended it in Chaitra. He was coronated in the same month and one month later, proceeded to Ashokavan with Seeta (Uttar 41/18) when the Shishira Rutu terminated. So it seems that Vaishakha Masa coincided with Shishira. So the Winter Solstice was at Vaishakha with the Sun at Ashwini. At present, the Winter Solstice takes place at Moola. Thus a shift of 10 nakshatras has occured since the Ramayanic Era. Precession has a rate of 960 years per nakshatra. Therefore, Ramayan must have occured 9600 years ago, which is 7600 B.C approximately.

Unquote

While Mr. Kaul has a point in denouncing Bhatanagar and Mendki he has failed to appreciate the good works done to place the date of Lord Ram in the 74th century BCE. I had the good fortune of meeting the great scholar Dr. Vartak personally in Pune some years ago and I appreciate his pioneering good work on dating of Lord Ram. Yet I must say that I do not agree with the date of the Mahabharata war given by Dr.Vartak. I feel he should have used the precessional data in the case of dating of the Mahabharata war also and that would have helped him to find the date of that war in 3139 BCE.

Regards,

Sunil KB

From: AK Kaul <jyotirved@...>
To: Sudhir-Architect <ar_sudhirkumar@...>
Cc: "hanasoge@..." <hanasoge@...>; "gopa292002@..." <gopa292002@...>; "hs_sethunathan@..." <hs_sethunathan@...>; "shivashankararao@..." <shivashankararao@...>; "krishlal@..." <krishlal@...>; "HinduCalendar@yahoogroups.com" <HinduCalendar@yahoogroups.com>; "snjoshy@..." <snjoshy@...>; "gbsub@..." <gbsub@...>; "praspandey@..." <praspandey@...>; "baqayarup@..." <baqayarup@...>; Dr. S. Ramakrishna Sharma <d.ramakrishnan2@...>; V K <vkchoudhry@...>; "bursar_99@..." <bursar_99@...>; "gbp_kumar@..." <gbp_kumar@...>; "gbsub1@..." <gbsub1@...>; Sridhar Govindan <appulali@...>; rohani <jyotish_vani@...>; akandabaratam <akandabaratam@yahoogroups.com>; sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala@...>; Gayatri Devi Vasudev <gayatridevivasudev@...>; "asthikasamaj@yahoogroups.com" <asthikasamaj@yahoogroups.com>; Arun Upadhyay <arunupadhyay30@...>; vedic_research_institute <vedic_research_institute@yahoogroups.com>; dr.p.v.vartak <info@...>; GANTA DIWAKAR <hariom4959@...>; S. Kalyanaraman <kalyan97@...>; Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@...>; "jyotishgroup@yahoogroups.com" <jyotishgroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 9, 2012 6:27 AM
Subject: [JyotishGroup] Re: Valmikis' account of Lord Ram is stunningly accurate (Sic)!

Shri Sudhir Architectji,

Jai Shri Ram!

Thank you for your response.

Kindly let me know as to what type of "right information" you want from me?

If you are asking about the exact date of incarnation of Bhagwaan Ram on the basis of the supposed astrological combinations in the Valmiki and other Ramayanas, I may inform you that all that astrological jargon in those works are interpolations of a much later date, probably post Surya Siddhanta i.e. after at least second century BCE, as there were no Mesha,Vrisha etc. Rashsis in any indigenous astronomical work till then.

Prior to that, whatever rudimentary phalita-jyotisha was there in India, it was planets vis-a-vis nakshatras, and that too only after about fifth/sixth century BCE!

Jai Shri Ram!

A K Kaul

On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Sudhir-Architect <ar_sudhirkumar@...> wrote:

Dear Sir,

Thank you for reading my e-mail and for your comments. I appreciate it. It would be very informative
if you can forward me the right information so that I can pass it on to our Hindu friends.

Thanks & Regards,

Sudhir Srinivasan
B.Arch, MSc.CPM, Dip.ID, Dip.CAD, Dip.PM
| Architect |

From: AK Kaul <jyotirved@...>
To: ar_sudhirkumar@...
Subject: Valmikis' account of Lord Ram is stunningly accurate (Sic)!

Shri Sudhir Architect ji,
Jai Shri Ram!
A gentleman sent me your following post in hinducivilization group.

What amuses me is that even scholars like you toe the line of some propagandists without checking the details themselves with the result that they find the most atrocious astronomical statements too "Very logical and enlightening"!

These days astrological/astronomical software like JHORA, Swiss-ephemeris, Solex and even "Vishnu.exe" programs are available for free on the www and anyone can check that the people who claim to have found the accurate birth charts of divine Incarnations like Bhagwaan Ram and Bhagwaan Krishna etc. are taking us for a ride!

We have several birth charts of Rama-incarnations roaming around, the most prominent ones being (i) Vartak-Ram; (ii)Bhttacharjya-Ram (iii) Mendki-Ram and (iv)Bhatnagar-Ram! Since you find Bhatnagar-Ram to be "stunningly accurate", a copy of my mail to Ms Saroj Bala (the propagandist!) and her reply (Encl. Bhatnagar-Ram-1) besides the relevant post in Waves-Vedic etc. (Bhatnagar-Ram) forums should go a long way to help you in arriving at the truth and nothing but truth that we are really being taken for a ride on the shoulders of correct birthcharts of divine incarnations!

I must put on record here that it is because of such propagandists of "Vedic astronomy" that we are celebrating all our festivals and muhurtas on wrong days like celebrating Pitra-Amavasya on the day of actual Depavali and so on!

Jai Shri Ram!
A K Kaul

From: Sudhir-Architect <ar_sudhirkumar@...>
To:
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 11:27 AM
Subject: [hc] Valmikis' account of Lord Ram is stunningly accurate

A long article, but I found it worth reading.

Very logical & enlightening.
Valmikis' account is stunningly accurate...Go on, read it and convince yourself beyond any doubts!
The facts about Ram...The story of Shri Rams' life was first narrated by Maharishi Valmiki in the Ramayana, which was written after Shri Ram was crowned as the king of
Ayodhya. Maharishi Valmiki was a great astronomer as he has made
sequential astronomical references on important dates related to the
life of Shri Ram indicating the location of planets vis-a-vis zodiac constellations and the other stars (nakshatras). Needless to add that
similar position of planets and nakshatras is not repeated in thousands
of years. By entering the precise details of the planetary configuration of the important events in the life of Shri Ram as given in the Valmiki Ramayan in the software named "Planetarium" corresponding exact dates
of these events according to the English calendar can be known. Mr
Pushkar Bhatnagar, of the Indian Revenue Service, had acquired this
software from the US. It is used to predict the solar/lunar eclipses and distance and location of other planets from earth. He entered the
relevant details about the planetary positions narrated by Maharishi
Valmiki and obtained very interesting and convincing results, which
almost determine the important dates starting from the birth of Shri Ram to the date of his coming back to Ayodhya after 14 years of exile. Maharishi Valmiki has recorded in Bal Kaand, sarga 19 and shloka eight and nine
(1/18/8,9), that Shri Ram was born on ninth tithi of Chaitra month when
the position of different planets vis-a-vis zodiac constellations and
nakshatras (visible stars) were: i) Sun in Aries; ii) Saturn in Libra;
iii) Jupiter in Cancer; iv) Venus in Pisces; v) Mars in Capricorn; vi)
Lunar month of Chaitra; vii) Ninth day after no moon; viii) Lagna as
Cancer (cancer was rising in the east); ix) Moon on the Punarvasu
(Gemini constellation & Pllux star); x) Day time (around noon). This data was fed into the software. The results indicated that this was
exactly the location of planets/stars in the noon of January 10, 5114
BC. Thus, Shri Ram was born on January 10, 5114 BC (7121 years back). As per the Indian calendar, it was the ninth day of Shukla Paksha in
Chaitra month and the time was around 12 to 1 noontime. This is exactly
the time and date when Ram Navmi is celebrated all over India. Shri Ram was born in Ayodhya. This fact can be ascertained from several
books written by Indian and foreign authors before and after the birth
of Christ - Valmiki Ramayan, Tulsi Ramayan, Kalidasas' Raghuvansam,
Baudh and Jain literature, etc. These books have narrated in great
detail the location, rich architecture and beauty of Ayodhya which had
many palaces and temples built all over the kingdom. Ayodhya was located on the banks of the Saryu river with Ganga and Panchal Pradesh on one
side and Mithila on the other side. Normally 7,000 years is a very long
period during which earthquakes, storms, floods and foreign invasions
change the course of rivers, destroy the towns/buildings and alter the
territories. Therefore, the task of unearthing the facts is monumental.
The present Ayodhya has shrunk in size and the rivers have changed their course about 40 km north/south. Shri Ram went out of Ayodhya in his
childhood (13th year as per Valmiki Ramayan) with Rishi Vishwamitra who
lived in Tapovan (Sidhhashram). From there he went to Mithila, King
Janaks' kingdom. Here, he married Sita after breaking Shiv Dhanusha.
Researchers have gone along the route adopted by Shri Ram as narrated in the Valmiki Ramayan and found 23 places which have memorials that
commemorate the events related to the life of Shri Ram. These include
Shringi Ashram, Ramghat, Tadka Van, Sidhhashram, Gautamashram, Janakpur
(now in Nepal), Sita Kund, etc. Memorials are built for great men and
not for fictitious characters. Date of exile of Shri Ram: It is mentioned in Valmiki Ramayans' Ayodhya Kand (2/4/18) that Dashratha wanted to make Shri Ram the king because Sun,
Mars and Rahu had surrounded his nakshatra and normally under such
planetary configuration the king dies or becomes a victim of conspiracies.
Dashrathas' zodiac sign was Pisces and his nakshatra was Rewati. This
planetary configuration was prevailing on the January 5, 5089 BC, and it was on this day that Shri Ram left Ayodhya for 14 years of exile. Thus, he was 25 years old at that time (5114-5089). There are several shlokas in Valmiki Ramayan which indicate that Shri Ram was 25-years-old when
he left Ayodhya for exile. Valmiki Ramayan refers to the solar eclipse
at the time of war with Khardushan in later half of 13th year of Shri
Rams' exile. It is also mentioned it was amavasya day and Mars was in
the middle. When this data was entered, the software indicated that
there was a solar eclipse on October 7, 5077 BC, (amavasya day) which
could be seen from Panchvati. The planetary configuration was also the
same - Mars was in the middle, on one side were Venus and Mercury and on the other side were Sun and Saturn. On the basis of planetary configurations described in various other chapters, the date
on which Ravana was killed works out to be December 4, 5076 BC, and Shri Ram completed 14 years of exile on January 2, 5075 BC, and that day was also Navami of Shukla Paksha in Chaitra month. Thus Shri Ram had come
back to Ayodhya at the age of 39 (5114-5075). A colleague, Dr Ram Avtar, researched on places visited by Shri Ram
during his exile, and sequentially moved to the places stated as visited by Shri Ram in the Valmiki Ramayan, starting from Ayodhya he went right upto Rameshwaram. He found 195 places which still have the memorials
connected to the events narrated in the Ramayana relating to the life of Shri Ram and Sita. These include Tamsa Tal (Mandah), Shringverpur
(Singraur), Bhardwaj Ashram (situated near Allahabad), Atri Ashram,
Markandaya Ashram (Markundi), Chitrakoot, Pamakuti (on banks of Godavari), Panchvati, Sita Sarovar, Ram Kund in Triambakeshwar near
Nasik, Shabari Ashram, Kishkindha (village Annagorai), Dhanushkoti and
Rameshwar temple. In Valmiki Ramayan it is mentioned that Shri Rams' army constructed a
bridge over the sea between Rameshwaram and Lanka. After crossing this
bridge, Shri Rams' army had defeated Ravana. Recently, NASA put pictures on the Internet of a man-made bridge, the ruins of which are lying
submerged in Palk Strait between Rameshwaram and Sri Lanka. Recently the Sri Lankan Government had expressed the desire to develop Sita Vatika
as a tourist spot. Sri Lankans believe this was Ashok Vatika where
Ravana had kept Sita as a prisoner (in 5076 BC). Indian history has
recorded that Shri Ram belonged to the Suryavansh and he was the 64th
ruler of this dynasty. The names and other relevant particulars of
previous 63 kings are listed in Ayodhya ka Etihaas written about 80 years ago by Rai Bahadur Sita Ram.
Professor Subhash Kak of Lousiana University, in his book, The
Astronomical Code of the Rig Veda, has also listed 63 ancestors of Shri
Ram who ruled over Ayodhya. Sri Rams' ancestors have been traced out as: Shri Ram, King Dashratha, King Aja, King Raghu, King Dilip and so on.
From Kashmir to Kanyakumari and from Bengal to Gujarat, everywhere
people believe in the reality of Shri Rams' existence, particularly in
the tribal areas of Himachal, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh and the
North-East. Most of the festivals celebrated in these areas revolve
around the events in the life of Shri Ram and Shri Krishna. The events and places related to the life of Shri Ram and Sita are true
cultural and social heritage of every Indian irrespective of caste and
creed. Therefore, it is common heritage. After all, Shri Ram belonged to the period when Prophet Mohammed or Jesus Christ were not born and Muslim or Christian faiths were unknown to the world. The
words Hindu (resident of Hindustan) and Indian (resident of India) were
synonymous. India was also known as Bharat (land of knowledge) and
Aryavarta (where Aryans live) and Hindustan (land of "Hindus" - derived
from word Indus). During Ram Rajya, the evils of caste system based on
birth were non-existent. In fact, Maharishi Valmiki is stated to be of
Shudra class (scheduled caste), still Sita lived with him as his adopted daughter after she was banished from Ayodhya. Luv and Kush grew in his
ashram as his disciples. We need to be proud of the fact that Valmiki
was perhaps the first great astronomer and that his study of planetary
configurations has stood the test of times. Even the latest computer
softwares have corroborated his astronomical calculations, which proves
that he did not commit any error. Shabri is stated to be belonging to the Bheel tribe. Shri Rams' army, which
succeeded in defeating Ravana, was formed by various tribals from
Central and South India. The facts, events and all other details
relating to the life of Shri Ram are the common heritage of all the
Indians including scheduled castes, scheduled tribes, Muslims,
Christians, etc. Prophet Mohammad was born 1,400 years ago. Jesus Christ was born 2,000 years back. Gautam Buddha was born 2,600 years back,
whereas Ram was born 7,000 years back. Hence, discovering the details
relating to Shri Rams' life would be lot more difficult as destruction
caused by floods, earthquakes and invasions etc., would be far greater.
But, should that stop our quest for learning more about our cultural
heritage? As Indians, let us all take pride in the fact that the Indian civilisation is the most ancient civilisation today. It is certainly more than 10,000 years old. Therefore, let us reject the
story of Aryan invasion in India in 1,500 BC as motivated implantation.
In fact Max Mueller, who was the creator of this theory had himself
rejected it. Let us admit that during the British Rule, we were educated in the schools based on Macaulay school of thinking which believed that everything Indian was inferior and that entire "Indian literature was
not worth even one book rack in England." If there were similarities in
certain features of Indian people and people from Central Europe, then
automatic inference drawn was that the Aryans coming from Europe invaded India and settled here. No one dared of thinking in any other way.
Therefore, there is urgency for the historians and all other
intellectuals to stop reducing Indian history to myth. There is need to
gather, dig out, search, unearth and analyse all the evidences, which
would throw more light on ancient Indian civilisation and culture. There is need for the print and the electronic media to take note of these
facts and create atmosphere which would motivate our young and educated
youth to carry out research and unearth true facts about the ancient
Indian civilisation and wisdom and would also encourage them to put
across the results of their research before the people fearlessly and
with a sense of pride!

by Saroj Bala, The Pioneer

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#64383

From: Hari Malla <harimalla@...>
Date: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:52 am
Subject: Fw: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)

harimalla...

Send Email

--- On Mon, 4/9/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@...> wrote:

From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@...>
Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
To: "Hari Malla" <harimalla@...>
Date: Monday, April 9, 2012, 5:23 PM

Dear Mr. Hari Malla,

Thank you.

<I am happy to hear that the referring to the coordinated Dularaka ayanamsha VE is at 5°23'37" (coordinated) Aries. I wonder what will be the prediction on this basis of ayanamsha, other things remaining the same.>

C- Coordinated longitude
S- Sidereal longitude
T- Tropical longitude
Ay – Ayanamsha (You may use whatever ayanamsha of your choice)

C = S + 30°
S = T – Ay
Therefore
C = (T – Ay) + 30°

There will be little effect on predictions based on transits, directions and inter-planetary aspects that are used in Western astrology.

Sidereal astrologers can convert coordinated longitudes to Sidereal longitudes simply by subtracting one sign from coordinated longitudes (S = C - 30°) and use accordingly.



Whatever it is astrology is not the path to Nirvana. I think the teaching is similar in Hinduism. Therefore it is better not believe in astrology.
With regards Harsha Indrasena

On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 7:36 PM, Hari Malla <harimalla@...> wrote:

Dear Harsha Indrasenji,

Thank you indeed for your carefully thought out reply.
1.Transferring the geocentric sidereal parameter to the hlocenteric one, we add the speed of the sun to the speed of the nakshyatras. This I feel is Yoga and is the ultimate goal of practising astroloogy is to achieve this too, in the mind. I have read in Bhratiya Jyotish that Parashar too has expressd this opinion that the astrologers shoulod try to go to Brahmahlok in the end. In SS, we read that at the end after educating Maya danava on astronomy, Suryamsha Purush ultimately goes to the orb of the sun, which in my view means the transfer of the geocentric center to the heliocentric one..

2. May I please know the scientific explanation attributed to the proper motion of the stars as you have mentioned.. Is it the rotation of the galaxy?

3 Thank you for acceptig my defintion of Kalpa. This definiton is concluded from the mention in the Bhagvatam of Dhruva (pole point) having two sons- Vatsar ( the year, orbit of the earth) and Kalpa (the great year, precession of the equinoxes).

4. I am happy to hear that the referring to the coordinated Dularaka ayanamsha VE is at 5°23'37" (coordinated) Aries. I wonder what will be the predicton on this basis of ayanamsha, other things remaining the same.

Although I do not believe prediction can predict 100 percent, but I do not rule out the possiblity of prediction success of about 60 percent. I feel the other five planets apart from the sun, the moon and Rahu ketu are misrepresented.
Thank you again, for your support as well as educating me in certain aspects of astronomy. .

Hari Malla

--- On Thu, 4/5/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@...> wrote:

From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@...>
Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
To: "Hari Malla" <harimalla@...>
Date: Thursday, April 5, 2012, 7:18 PM

Dear Mr. Hari Malla,

1) 

Zodiac is situated round the ecliptic, extending 8-9° north or south of the ecliptic, in the celestial sphere. This means zodiac is situated in infinity. Therefore the distance between the Sun and the Earth is negligible when compared with the distance to the Zodiac.

Therefore we can use the same zodiac in both heliocentric and geocentric versions. In heliocentric version, the zodiac is centered at Sun. In geocentric version, the zodiac is centered at Earth. But both versions refer to one and the same zodiac. Therefore what you say is correct.

2) 

No.

Days, months, years and several billion years in my mail refer to changing signs of heavenly bodies (both planets and stars).

We cannot ignore the proper motion of planets in one Kalpa for the stars that are closer to us.

Proper motion was suspected by early astronomers (according to Macrobius, AD 400) but proof was provided in 1718 by Edmund Halley, who noticed that Sirius, Arcturus and Aldebaran were over half a degree away from the positions charted by the ancient Greek astronomer Hipparchus roughly 1850 years earlier.^[23]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_motion

Proper motion of stars is important when one defines the zodiac. Therefore if we always fix Shaula at 0deg Sag or Aldebaren at 15deg Taurus, even the sidereal zodiac will keep moving over years.

3) <By the way do you agree with the 25,800 years figure for one Kalpa or cycle of precession?>

That depends on how we define Kalpa. This is your definition and it is acceptable to me.

4) I would also request you to kindly send your present value of Dulakara ayanamsha.

24°36'23"

If we shift the zero point of ayanamsha by 30 degrees for the sake of coordination, what will be the new reformed value of Dulakara ayanamsha?

VE is at 5°23'37" (coordinated) Aries.

Thank you.
Harsha Indrasena

On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 8:06 AM, Hari Malla <harimalla@...> wrote:

Dear Harsha Indrasenji,

Thank you for your reply. I am impressed by your thorough knowledge of astronomy.
I liked your following expresion too..

<Sidereal zodiac is fixed. Its background is empty. It is just 12 equal parts in sky. It is not composed of stars. Planets move rapidly over days, months and years, and stars move very very slowly over millions and billions of years across it.>

I request you to confirm that siereal zodiacs though composed of 12 equal parts in empty space is centered at the sun. I would like to add, 'when we consider the sun at the center of the circle of zodiac stars, it is the highest experience man can have. He bcomes a Buddha! This is what SS says. This is what our panchangas says, when we add the speed of nakshytras( meaning moon) to the speed of the sun( meaning the earth inits orbit), then we get Yoga. This Yoga is Buddhahood the reltionship of the sun to the stars, in its pratically static postion.
I say 'practically' because, if negligibly moving in one hundered life times or generation for we living creatures, is surely practicaly fixed. One hundered lifetime is say about 10,000 years. And a peiod of 10,000 years inhistory is already prehistoric by human standards and its civilisation. Stars moving over millions and billions of years is not connected with our eye vision and our civilisatio, since we live only for 100 years and history of our civilisation is not more than 5,000 to 10 000 years. Our human experience of static nature is quite limited and also eternity. Our life and death is surely trancscended in one life time by a Budha. and if not in one lifetime then surely in a hundered lifetimes by other humans. So much for human philosophy and end of rebirths of one person.
Now coming to our coordinative system, we shift one rashi sankranti of 30 degrees, for coordinating the sidereal and the tropical zodiacs about every 2,150 years. This is one manawantar of 12 shifts in one Kalpa of 25,800 years, in my view. I am sure you wil agree that the shift of stars in one Kalpa of 25,800 years is quite negligible. By the way do you agree with the 25,800 years figure for one Kalpa or cycle of precession?
.I would also rquest you to kinldy send your present value of Dularka ayanamsha. If we shift the zero point of aynamsha by 30 degrees for the sake of coordination, what will be the new reformed value of Dularka ayanmsha?

Thank you for our cooperation?

Hari Malla

--- On Tue, 4/3/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@...> wrote:

From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@...>
Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
To: JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 3:20 PM

Dear Mr. Hari Malla,

I very well agree with your philosophical views.

<Please note that galactic center is in no way dealt with, in our scriptures and it is meaningless to talk about it in the ancient context. This is complete misconeption to jump to conclusions and a sheer waste of time.>

Sidereal Galactic center has been defined by approximating known sidereal zodiac with the event that occurred in July 1998. Without knowing approximate location of sidereal zodiac one cannot give longitudes to this point. I consider this as a rough approximation rather than the eternal truth.

<This modern concept of science has zero effect in our practical lives.>

Modern astronomy will never ever be able to find out the beginning of sidereal Aries. We must try to find out true sidereal zodiac by scrutinizing ancient wisdom. That is why astrology is a divine science.

<Thus my request to drop this associaton with muladhara chakra which is misleading. It is as misleading as to say that one manwantar is equal to 40 years.>

It is quite true that Mula or Shaula star is closer to a zero than Spica or Chitra star. But Shaula is not a good reference point because this star is located far beyond the ecliptic. None of the planets touches this star during their course. Therefore Chitra is a better reference point than Mula star.

Other thing is that we cannot fix the longitudes of stars. Stars do move and change positions over time. We must fit the stars into nakshatras and rashis, in the same way that we do with planets, rather than fitting the nakshatras and rashis to stars.

Sidereal zodiac is fixed. Its background is empty. It is just 12 equal parts in sky. It is not composed of stars. Planets move rapidly over days, months and years, and stars move very very slowly over millions and billions of years across it.

With regards Harsha Indrasena

On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 9:35 AM, hari <harimalla@...> wrote:

Dear all,
A friendly tip here. Please note that galactic center is in no way dealt with, in our scriptures and it is meaningless to talk about it in the ancient context. This is complete misconeption to jump to conclusions and a sheer waste of time.
This modern concept of science has zero effect in our practical lives.
Thus my request to drop this associaton with muladhara chakra which is misleading. It is as misleading as to say that one manwantar is equal to 40 years.
Also 'muladhar chakra' in my view is related to the center of the earth or earth core.
thank you.
Hari Malla

--- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, "sreesog" <sreesog@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Narasimha ji,
> I have a question/dobt. What would be the longitude of Galaxy Center
> when Mula star is at 0Sg0? In this case will Galaxy Center be at the
> middle of Mula Nakshatra or somewhere else?
> Also can you please include the relative longitudes of all important
> stars (Yoga taras) in JHora to help such researches? That could be much
> helpful - not only in such studies but also asserting the Vedic and
> Puranic astronomic statements, in some cases.
> Love and regards,
> Sreenadh
>

> --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, "sreesog" <sreesog@> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Narasimha ji, Sunil ji and All,
> > //> Please convey my regards to your learned friend. His words are
> > > meaningful.//
> > Yes, and definitely from those words itself it is well evidant that
> > those words are NOT of Chandrahari ji.
> > //> Galactic Center at 240 deg will make ayanamsa deviate many degrees
> > from
> > > Lahiri. BTW, this option is already supported in JHora 7.51!//
> > Yes, True.
> > //> Apart from Galactic center at 0Sg0, JHora 7.51 also includes a
> fixed
> > > star based implementation of Chandra Hari ayanamsa, where Lambda
> > Scorpii
> > > star (Shaula) is always placed at 0Sg0. Please note that Lambda
> > Scorpii
> > > star used by Chandra Hari is several degrees away from the Galactic
> > > Center!//
> > Yes, True.
> > //> Philosophically speaking, I too am not really convinced that 180
> deg
> > > point must be the anchor for defining ayanamsa.//
> > Good realization!
> > //> (1) Focus on Prajapati, the Creator. For example, Aldebaran (Alpha
> > > Tauri) can be placed at the center of Taurus in Rohini (the star
> owned
> > > by Prajapati). JHora already offers this option. The other option
> not
> > > supported by JHora yet is to place Aldebaran at the center of Rohini
> > > itself.
> > > (2) Apart from Prajapati's star, it would make sense for the
> > *Mooladhara
> > > chakra* of Kaala Purusha to be the anchor.//
> > I appreciate this approach. Possibly Rohini (Aldebaran) star as
> the
> > star of Brahma and Rohini Nakshatra as the Birth star of Brahma points
> > to the position of Aldebaran at the middle of Rohini Nakshatra itself
> > (and not to Aldebaran at the middle of Taurus). I have a question -
> Is
> > it not giving importance to the Nakshatra and Star of Creation/Brahma
> > and placing it at the middle of Rohini Nakshatra, almost exactly same
> as
> > Chandrahari's Ayanamsa? (Even though the focus of opinion and
> arguments
> > expressed may differ, the Ayanamsa value will remains almost the same
> in
> > both these cases I think. Please clarify)
> > //> Just because the Moola star is named "Moola", some people
> associate
> > it
> > > with Mooladhara chakra. That is questionable. //
> > True. The Vedic name for Mula is "Mula Barhis" which rather means
> > "the one which spins and expands, or the root of everything (present
> in
> > the universe?)". Or in other words possibly Mula Nakshatra got its
> name
> > more because of its association with Galactic Center and not because
> of
> > its association with Mula star. Even when the position of Mula star
> at
> > 0Sg0 becomes questionable the connection of Mula Nakshatra with
> Galactic
> > Center cannot be questioned. The name Mula is more connected with
> with
> > Galactic Center (of Milky way galaxy) and not to the Muladhara Chakra
> > concept etc which are possibly of later day origin.
> > Another point is that, even though philosophical perspective, and
> also
> > the available Mesopotamian horoscopes supports a Galectic Center
> > Ayanamsa; the results predicated by Indian astrology classics match
> with
> > the given horoscope, only when the foundations proposed by Indian
> > siddhantic texts and Ayanamsa based on the same are followed. (For me
> > Surya Siddhantic Chandrahari Ayanamsa works well in this regard; even
> > though I don't force the argument that others should follow the same.
> > When it comes to prediction, everyone should follow what works for
> them
> > best - because astrology is a practical branch of knowledge). From a
> > philosophical point of view I appreciate Galaxy Centric Ayanamsa but
> it
> > do not work for me while dealing with Indian astrology (possibly
> because
> > through centuries the results are modified and made in tune with Surya
> > Siddhantic Ayanamsa etc by the indian practitioners of astrology), but
> > the Indian Ayanamsas (whether it be Chandrahari, True Chitrapaksha or
> > whatever nearby) works better for Indian astrology. If I am to read
> the
> > chart using Mesopotamian astrology principles and method, I would
> prefer
> > to use Galaxy Centric Ayanamsa, but not while dealing with Indian
> > astrology.
> > Love and regards,
> > Sreenadh
> >
> > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Namaste Sunil ji,
> > >
> > > Please convey my regards to your learned friend. His words are
> > > meaningful.
> > >
> > > Galactic Center at 240 deg will make ayanamsa deviate many degrees
> > from
> > > Lahiri. BTW, this option is already supported in JHora 7.51!
> > >
> > > Apart from Galactic center at 0Sg0, JHora 7.51 also includes a fixed
> > > star based implementation of Chandra Hari ayanamsa, where Lambda
> > Scorpii
> > > star (Shaula) is always placed at 0Sg0. Please note that Lambda
> > Scorpii
> > > star used by Chandra Hari is several degrees away from the Galactic
> > > Center!
> > >
> > > Your friend's suggestion of the intersection of galactic equator and
> > > ecliptic is interesting and may be worth investigating.
> > >
> > > * * *
> > >
> > > Philosophically speaking, I too am not really convinced that 180 deg
> > > point must be the anchor for defining ayanamsa.
> > >
> > > I can think of two logical possibilities:
> > >
> > > (1) Focus on Prajapati, the Creator. For example, Aldebaran (Alpha
> > > Tauri) can be placed at the center of Taurus in Rohini (the star
> owned
> > > by Prajapati). JHora already offers this option. The other option
> not
> > > supported by JHora yet is to place Aldebaran at the center of Rohini
> > > itself.
> > > (2) Apart from Prajapati's star, it would make sense for the
> > *Mooladhara
> > > chakra* of Kaala Purusha to be the anchor.
> > >
> > > * * *
> > >
> > > Just because the Moola star is named "Moola", some people associate
> it
> > > with Mooladhara chakra. That is questionable. If stars are named
> based
> > > on chakras they represent, show me stars named based on other six
> > > chakras (svAdhiShThAna etc)!
> > >
> > > Moola simply means root and can be the root of anything. For
> example,
> > > "bAhu-mUla" (root of arm) means armpit. As Sg shows thighs of Kaala
> > > Purusha, Moola star (ruled by Nirriti!) at its beginning could show
> > the
> > > root of thighs, i.e. groins. That is NOT the location of Mooladhara
> > > chakra.
> > >
> > > * * *
> > >
> > > Mooladhara chakra is supposed to be located a little above anus and
> a
> > > little below the reproductive organ, both shown by Scorpio. After
> all,
> > > when Parasara defined zodiacal signs, he said Vi, Li, Sc and Sg are
> > the
> > > hips (kaTi), lower belly/abdomen (basti), privities (guhya) and
> thighs
> > > (Uru) of Kaala Purusha (respectively). Thus, Mooladhara chakra must
> be
> > > *well within* Scorpio, perhaps near the middle! Placing at at 0Sg0
> > makes
> > > no sense.
> > >
> > > Antares (Alpha Scorpii) is one of the brightest stars in that region
> > and
> > > one of the very few stars to lie within 5 deg from the ecliptic
> plane.
> > >
> > > One option is to place Antares in the middle of Scorpio (i.e.
> 15Sc0).
> > > The other (and better) option is to place it at the beginning of
> > > Jyeshtha star (i.e. 16Sc40). Please note that Jyeshtha means "the
> > > first/main/chief one".
> > >
> > > Also, Jyeshtha star is ruled by Indra and the deity of Mooladhara
> > chakra
> > > as per Tantras is also four-armed Indra on a white elephant!! The
> > beeja
> > > of Indra is laM (laM indrAya namaH) and laM is also the beeja of
> > > Mooladhara chakra!
> > >
> > > Apart from Indra, some texts also associate Ganapati with Mooladhara
> > > chakra and note that Ganapati is mentioned in RigVeda as
> jyeShTha-rAja
> > > (king of Jyeshtha)! Bottomline is that Mooladhara chakra controls
> > earth
> > > element or solid state of existence and offers stability and
> > > groundedness to one's awareness. Ganapati symbolizes that and so
> does
> > > Indra (indriyas or senses!) riding an elephant (solid/grounded
> > state!).
> > >
> > > * * *
> > >
> > > I am just thinking loud here, as far as "Jyeshthapaksha" ayanamsa
> > based
> > > on Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara chakra in Jyeshtha star is concerned.
> > >
> > > In any case, I am not at all convinced that 0Sg0 shows Mooladhara
> > chakra
> > > and hence should anchor the zodiac. If one carefully studies rasis
> of
> > > zodiac, body parts of Kaala Purusha shown by them and the location
> of
> > > chakras as per Tantras, one will conclude that Mooladhara chakra
> must
> > > lie *well within* Scorpio and close to its center.
> > >
> > > Just my 2 cents - take it or leave it!
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Narasimha
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------

> > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,
> > > "Do It Yourself" ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:
> > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
> > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org
> > > Spirituality: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vedic-wisdom
> > > Jyotish writings: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JyotishWritings
> > > Twitter ID: @homam108
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > >

> > > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Sunil Bhattacharjya
> > > sunil_bhattacharjya@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Namaste Narasimhaji,
> > > >
> > > > You wrote:
> > > > Quote
> > > >> not name it "Narasimha ayanamsa". I named it "Jagannatha
> ayanamsa".
> > > >> It > is available in JHora.
> > > >>
> > > >> In standard Lahiri ayanamsa, Chitra (spica) star *fluctuates*
> > around
> > > >> 180 > deg. In Jagannatha ayanamsa, Chitra is always *fixed* at
> > > >> exactly 180 > deg.
> > > >>
> > > >> Secondly, the 2-dimensional plane onto which heavenly bodies are
> >
> > > >> projected is a *fluctuating* plane, in Lahiri ayanamsa (and most
> > > >> other > ayanamsas). Suppose we make a natal chart in April 1970
> and
> > a
> > > >> transit > chart in October 2011 and correlate planetary
> positions.
> > > >> The planes on > which planets are projected are totally different
> > on
> > > >> the two dates! Yet, > we compare the positions!
> > > >>
> > > >> In Jagannatha ayanamsa, this plane is fixed and does not change
> > from
> > > >> one > day to another. Instead of using the fluctuating Sun-earth
> > > >> rotation > plane, Jagannatha ayanamsa uses the *mean* Sun-earth
> > > >> rotation plane. So > it is fixed and does not fluctuate.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thus, Jagannatha ayanamsa is just Lahiri ayanamsa with a truly
> > fixed
> > > >> > zero point and a fixed plane. It is very close to Lahiri
> > ayanamsa.
> > > > Unquote
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for your reply. I have a liking for astrology but it may
> > not
> > > > be the very orthodox style of astrology. I am also not an
> unbeliever
> > > > in astrology like Kaulji has become with a vengeance. That is why
> > the
> > > > ayanamsha controversy did not not bug me as much as it has done to
> > > > Kaulji.BTW has Kaulji commented on the "Jagannatha ayanamsa"?
> > > >
> > > > As regards the "Jagannatha ayanamsa" I was asking a knowledgeable
> > > > friend about your efforts on correcting the Lahiri ayanamsha. He
> has
> > > > the following to say:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Quote
> > > > If Citra has to be the anchor of the sidereal zodiac, then
> Narasimha
> > > > Rao's method is no doubt an important correction to the Lahiri
> > > > ayanamsha. However, from a philosophical point of view, I do not
> see
> > > > why Citra should play such an important part in astrology as to
> > define
> > > > the beginning of the rashichakra. E.g., why not take the Galactic
> > > > Centre at the beginning of Mulanakshatra? Kindly think of the
> > meaning
> > > > of mula! That would make more sense, would it not? Or maybe even
> > > > better: the intersection point of the Galactic equator with the
> > > > ecliptic could be put at the beginning of Mula? Or if you put that
> > > > intersection point into the middle of Mulanakshatra, it would even
> > be
> > > > close to Lahiri-Ayanamsha.
> > > > Unquote
> > > >
> > > > Will you like comment on it?
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Sunil KB
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@
> > > > To: JyotishWritings@yahoogroups.com;
> > vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 3:25 PM
> > > > Subject: [JyotishGroup] Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta
> > vs
> > > > SSS
> > > > Namaste Ranjan,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the nice words. The thing with intuition is that it
> > cannot
> > > > be
> > > > transmitted. One needs to work hard to develop it and often some
> > > > moral/spiritual fabric is needed in one's character. Logical
> > knowledge
> > > > on the other hand can be transmitted and preserved.
> > > >
> > > > Sadly, people have corrupted the "logical knowledge" portion of
> > > > Jyotish
> > > > teachings of rishis and making up for it with intuition for the
> last
> > > > several centuries.
> > > >
> > > > But, with the the age of intelligent machines dawning on humanity
> > and
> > > > moral/spiritual fabric of humanity seeing a fast deterioration,
> > > > retrieving SOME "logical knowledge" portions of the teachings of
> > > > rishis
> > > > and preserving for coming generations in an easy form will be very
> > > > valuable.
> > > >
> > > > Namaste Sunil ji,
> > > >
> > > > There are many parameters other than ayanamsa, where people have
> > > > different opinions. Resolving the ayanamsa issue is just one piece
> > of
> > > > the puzzle.
> > > >
> > > > BTW, I have already come up with an ayanamsa, in 2008-2009. But I
> > did
> > > > not name it "Narasimha ayanamsa". I named it "Jagannatha
> ayanamsa".
> > It
> > > > is available in JHora.
> > > >
> > > > In standard Lahiri ayanamsa, Chitra (spica) star *fluctuates*
> around
> > > > 180
> > > > deg. In Jagannatha ayanamsa, Chitra is always *fixed* at exactly
> 180
> > > > deg.
> > > >
> > > > Secondly, the 2-dimensional plane onto which heavenly bodies are
> > > > projected is a *fluctuating* plane, in Lahiri ayanamsa (and most
> > other
> > > > ayanamsas). Suppose we make a natal chart in April 1970 and a
> > transit
> > > > chart in October 2011 and correlate planetary positions. The
> planes
> > on
> > > > which planets are projected are totally different on the two
> dates!
> > > > Yet,
> > > > we compare the positions!
> > > >
> > > > In Jagannatha ayanamsa, this plane is fixed and does not change
> from
> > > > one
> > > > day to another. Instead of using the fluctuating Sun-earth
> rotation
> > > > plane, Jagannatha ayanamsa uses the *mean* Sun-earth rotation
> plane.
> > > > So
> > > > it is fixed and does not fluctuate.
> > > >
> > > > Thus, Jagannatha ayanamsa is just Lahiri ayanamsa with a truly
> fixed
> > > > zero point and a fixed plane. It is very close to Lahiri ayanamsa.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Narasimha
> > > >
> > > > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Sunil Bhattacharjya
> > > > <sunil_bhattacharjya@> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Dear Rohini,
> > > >>
> > > >> Narasimhaji said:
> > > >>
> > > >> QUOTE
> > > >> I have not yet found what I am looking for, though I experimented
> a
> > > >> lot.
> > > >>> Neither SSS nor drik siddhanta with Lahiri/Jagannatha ayanamsa
> > (and
> > > >>> Tithi Pravesha etc) come close to that really. Nor does anything
> > > >>> else
> > > >>> I ever had exposure to.
> > > >> UNQUOTE
> > > >>
> > > >> Is it a prelude to Mr. Narasimha's possible coming out with a
> > > >> "Narasimha Ayanamsha"? Let us hope the Ayanamsha debate will be
> put
> > > >> to
> > > >> rest soon.
> > > >>
> > > >> Best,
> > > >> SKB
> > > >>
> > > >> ________________________________
> > > >> From: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@>
> > > >> To: JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012
> > 10:50
> > > >> PM
> > > >> Subject: [JyotishGroup] Re: Turning the clock back: Drik
> Siddhanta
> > vs
> > > >> SSS
> > > >>
> > > >> Ã‚ Happy Gudi Padwa, Narasimha!
> > > >>
> > > >> As the craft progresses and so do we, I am reminded of the words
> of
> > > >> Charles, my wise friend, which I paraphrase, rather than copy and
> > > >> paste!
> > > >>
> > > >> The bird of divination has two wings, Logic and Intuition. Cut
> off
> > > >> either one and the bird flops around, going in circles but never
> > > >> managing to leave ground and "take-off"
> > > >>
> > > >> What you have given to Jyotish already, regardless of what
> > jyotishis
> > > >> and jyotishi-wanna_bees realize or not is simplicity, clarity and
> > > >> HONESTY!
> > > >>
> > > >> Whether they *took* it or not is THEIR PROBLEM!!
> > > >>
> > > >> Warm regards,
> > > >>
> > > >> Ranjan
> > > >>
> > > >> --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@>
> > wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Namaste friends,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Happy new lunar year Nandana!
> > > >>>
> > > >>> If you are not interested in my views on Jyotish techniques and
> > > >>> controversies, please skip this mail.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Those who follow my Jyotish writings know that I switched to
> using
> > > >>> SSS (Sri Surya Siddhanta) for planetary calculations, at the end
> > of
> > > >>> 2010. I wrote a lot on it for a few months and then went almost
> > > >>> silent. The reason was that I was evaluating SSS vs drik
> siddhanta
> > > >>> with many more examples, after the initial euphoria died down. I
> > > >>> revisited many previous predictions and evaluated many more
> charts
> > > >>> and events and analyzed whether I made the right judgment in
> 2010.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Some people may be excited to hear this, some may be
> disappointed
> > > >>> and
> > > >>> some may be confused. But none of that is my intention. This is
> > just
> > > >>> an impassionate and rational judgment made over time. My
> apologies
> > > >>> to
> > > >>> anyone who is troubled by this in any way.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> * * *
> > > >>>
> > > >>> It is my judgment that drik siddhanta with Lahiri/Jagannatha
> > > >>> ayanamsa
> > > >>> allowed me to make the most successful predictions, especially
> > using
> > > >>> the technique of Tithi Pravesha (learnt from, and thanks to, Pt
> > > >>> Sanjay Rath). Drik siddhanta with Jagannatha ayanamsa (a slight
> > > >>> variation of Lahiri ayanamsa) allowed me to come up with the
> most
> > > >>> promising objective techniques based on objective correlations
> > > >>> between divisional longitudes (e.g. stationary transits, padamsa
> > > >>> transits, vimsottari progression & transits, transit
> conjunctions
> > > >>> etc). Tithi Prav esha and none of those objective longitude
> > > >>> correlation techniques seem to work well with SSS and I could
> not
> > > >>> come up with any other objective methods with SSS. Though there
> > were
> > > >>> a few things (e.g. divisional Vimsottari dasa) that I was happy
> > with
> > > >>> when using SSS, they did not measure up in the final analysis,
> in
> > > >>> terms of consistency, objectivity and reliability with a much
> > larger
> > > >>> set of examples.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> After careful consideration over a few months, I determined that
> > > >>> turning the clock back by 13-14 months and switching back to
> drik
> > > >>> siddhanta and Jagannatha ayanamsa is the best way forward for me
> > to
> > > >>> carry on my Jyotish researches. That is what I will be doing in
> my
> > > >>> public writings, from today onwards!
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I have integrated a few ideas developed during the SSS journey
> > (e.g.
> > > >>> divisional Vimsottari dasa, correct interpretation of Parasara's
> > > >>> verses on aspect evaluation) into my old methodology based on
> drik
> > > >>> siddhanta and Jagannatha ayanamsa. I will be using them going
> > > >>> forward. But my staple will again be Tithi Pravesha. I will also
> > be
> > > >>> again picking up several interesting objective researches based
> on
> > > >>> divisional longitudes, which I came up with during 2008-2010
> > (please
> > > >>> see http://www.vedicastrologer.org/articles for the wrtieups).
> > > >>>
> > > >>> * * *
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Just to be clear, Jagannatha Hora software will continue to
> > support
> > > >>> SSS, so that those who are interested in it can use it. Also, I
> am
> > > >>> thankful to Sri Vinay Jha for enabling me to experiment with SSS
> > and
> > > >>> to enable users of JHora to experiment with it. But I will not
> be
> > > >>> using SSS or promoting it anymore.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> * * *
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I have to honestly say one thing here.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> One learned friend once said that astrology is a combination of
> > > >>> science and art. He honestly said he started off with a "more
> > > >>> science
> > > >>> and less art" approach when young and settled with a "less
> science
> > > >>> and more art" approach in the end. He said everyone has to
> strike
> > > >>> the
> > > >>> right balance for oneself.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Some use tropical zodiac, some use sidereal zodiac, some use a
> > > >>> combination. Some use Lahiri ayanamsa, some use Krishnamoorthy
> > > >>> ayanamsa, some use some other ayanamsas. Some use rasi, some use
> > > >>> rasi-navamsa, some use all divisional charts. Some use
> Vimsottari
> > > >>> dasa, some use Chara dasa, some use many dasas. There are many
> > > >>> variations. People find what works for them and settle with some
> > > >>> "less science and more art" approach that suits their mind.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I too struck my balance in the past, but never stopped and kept
> > > >>> searching for a method that reduces the role of art (intuition).
> I
> > > >>> am
> > > >>> not looking to just strike a balance personally and pursue
> > something
> > > >>> for myself. My goal is to unearth some techniques that
> *minimize*
> > > >>> the
> > > >>> role of *intuition*, so that laymen of future generations can
> > > >>> benefit
> > > >>> from Jyotish, atleast for basic guidance in major life
> decisions,
> > > >>> without depending on astrologers who are increasingly becoming
> > > >>> commercial and unreliable.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I have not yet found what I am looking for, though I
> experimented
> > a
> > > >>> lot. Neither SSS nor drik siddhanta with Lahiri/Jagannatha
> > ayanamsa
> > > >>> (and Tithi Pravesha etc) come close to that really. Nor does
> > > >>> anything
> > > >>> else I ever had exposure to. Intuition still has *too
> significant*
> > a
> > > >>> role in all these techniques for them to be really useful to
> > laymen.
> > > >>> That is why I keep searching for something better. If I make a
> > wrong
> > > >>> turn, I'll come back when I realize it.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> In the end, it may very well turn out that my whole goal is a
> pipe
> > > >>> dream. A technique that minimizes the role of intuition and
> usable
> > > >>> by
> > > >>> laymen may not even exist, though some statements by Parasara in
> > > >>> BPHS
> > > >>> give me hope. Those who follow me overzealously may kindly note
> > this
> > > >>> possibility. I am perfectly ok with spending my entire life and
> > not
> > > >>> reaching my goal. If your goal is to strike some personal
> balance
> > > >>> and
> > > >>> becoming a good astrologer, you may be better off sticking to
> > > >>> something or the other (instead of following me on each turn and
> > > >>> twist) and working on your *intuition* through spiritual
> > practices.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Best regards,
> > > >>> Narasimha
> > >
> >
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (12)

#64384

From: Sunil Nair <astro_tellerkerala@...>
Date: Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:05 am
Subject: A Natural Home Remedy for Cough

astro_teller...

Send Email

A Natural Home Remedy for Cough

by: Junji Takano

Do you find yourself looking for a cough remedy once your throat started to feel itchy? If your answer is yes, I bet that the first thing that comes to your mind is honey syrup.

Honey Syrup for Cough

Most people start to cough during later stages of a cold, but this is not always the case. Keep in mind that coughing is a symptom and not the cause of cold.

Did you know that there are two types of coughs? These are “productive coughs” and “non-productive coughs”.

## What is a Productive Cough?

A productive cough is basically a cough that produces sputum (mucus) or phlegm. This type of cough should generally not be suppressed.

## What is a Non-productive Cough?

A non-productive cough is typically a cough that is dry, tickly, and irritating, but produces no phlegm. A productive cough can eventually become non-productive. To prevent the development of respiratory infections, it is a good idea to address the problem of non-productive coughs.

## Garlic is a Good Home Remedy for Coughs

Garlic is a great natural cough remedy. There's no limitation and you won't overdose on garlic. It contains powerful antibacterial and antiviral properties to fight infections and inflammation including lung problems.

Garlic and Ginger for Cough

## Make your Own Natural Cough Medicine with Honey

There are many herbal medicines available for cough. One of them is Elecampane. It is a potent herbal plant for which, according to research, can kill a broad spectrum of bacteria. Elecampane is very easy to grow anywhere. It is also a low maintenance plant!

Elecampane herbal plant

Elecampane infused in honey is one of my favorite natural home cough remedies. This is done by slicing its roots and mixing them to a jar of honey. Place the jar in the fridge for a few days, and the honey will be transformed into a powerful natural cough medicine.

When you have a cough, simply taste the honey. Honey also soothes your throat pretty well. You can eat the pieces of root, which now taste like candies. You may also chew on them for a while, then spit them out. This is my favorite way to take Elecampane, and children will certainly love it too.

## How You Can Make an Effective Cough Syrup or Cough Tea Recipe

1. Boil a quart of water in a saucepan.

2. Add two tablespoons of dried Elecampane root once it comes to a boil.

3. Turn down the heat and simmer for 20 minutes, then add honey. You can also add lemon juice if you want.

4. You can now drink your natural cough remedy.

You can make out various syrups out of honey by mixing garlic, ginger, and other herbal ingredients

Visit http://www.pyroenergen.com/articles12/cough-home-remedy.htm for an online version.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#64385

From: Hari Malla <harimalla@...>
Date: Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:14 am
Subject: Fw: Re: Fw: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)

harimalla...

Send Email

--- On Tue, 4/10/12, Hari Malla <harimalla@...> wrote:

From: Hari Malla <harimalla@...>
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
To: JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com
Cc: "Harsha Indrasena" <indrasenaharsha@...>, parvasudhar2065@yahoogroups.com, jyotishgroup@yahoogroups.com, "AK Kaul" <jyotirved@...>, "Gopal Goel" <gkgoel1937@...>, "Anjaneyulu Marella" <anjaneyulu_marella@...>
Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 3:13 AM

Dear Harsha indrasenji,

Thank you indeed for working out the formula for the coordinated, tropical and sidereal coordinates.

Kindly also give the value of your coordinated Dularaka ayanamsha to Rohiniji of 01-01-1900, as he desires! Thank you for the cooperation.

Hari Malla.
--- On Tue, 4/10/12, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@...> wrote:

From: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@...>
Subject: Fw: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
To: JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 2:23 AM

Hari_ji,

I am still waiting for the ayanamsha value of 01-01-1900!

Recent History seems to be repeating itself... ;-)

Once again...!

Regards,

RR_,

--- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, "hari" <harimalla@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Raj Raoji and Rohiniji,
> If it interests you to use coordinated longitude, Harsh Indrasenji has
> supplied the formula for the reepctive coordinates. I feel he is quick in mathemtics. No?
> regards,
> Hari Malla
>
>
>
> --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Hari Malla <harimalla@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Mon, 4/9/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@>
> > Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
> > To: "Hari Malla" <harimalla@>
> > Date: Monday, April 9, 2012, 5:23 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Mr. Hari Malla,
> > Â
> > Thank you.
> > Â
> > <I am happy to hear that the referring to the coordinated Dularaka ayanamsha VE is at 5Â°23'37" (coordinated) Aries. I wonder what will be the prediction on this basis of ayanamsha, other things remaining the same.>
> > Â
> > C- Coordinated longitude
> > S- Sidereal longitude
> > T- Tropical longitude
> > Ay â€" Ayanamsha (You may use whatever ayanamsha of your choice)
> > Â
> > C = S + 30Â°
> > S = T â€" Ay
> > Therefore
> > C = (T â€" Ay) + 30Â°
> > Â
> > There will be little effect on predictions based on transits, directions and inter-planetary aspects that are used in Western astrology.
> > Â
> > Sidereal astrologers can convert coordinated longitudes to Sidereal longitudes simply by subtracting one sign from coordinated longitudes (S = C - 30Â°) and use accordingly.
> > Â
> > 
> > Â
> > Whatever it is astrology is not the path to Nirvana. I think the teaching is similar in Hinduism. Therefore it is better not believe in astrology.
> > Â With regards Harsha Indrasena
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 7:36 PM, Hari Malla <harimalla@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Harsha Indrasenji,
> > Thank you indeed for your carefully thought out reply.
> > 1.Transferring the geocentric sidereal parameter to the hlocenteric one, we add the speed of the sun to the speed of the nakshyatras. This I feel is Yoga and is the ultimate goal of practising astroloogy is to achieve this too, in the mind. I have read in Bhratiya Jyotish that Parashar tooÂ has expressd this opinion that the astrologers shoulod try to go to Brahmahlok in the end. In SS, we read that at the end after educating Maya danava on astronomy, Suryamsha Purush ultimately goes to the orb of the sun, which in my view means the transfer of the geocentric center to the heliocentric one..
> > 2. MayÂ I please know the scientific explanation attributed to the proper motion of the stars as you have mentioned.. Is it the rotation of the galaxy?
> > Â
> > 3 Thank you for acceptig my defintion of Kalpa. This definiton is concluded from the mention in the Bhagvatam of Dhruva (pole point)Â having two sons-Â VatsarÂ ( the year, orbit of the earth) and Kalpa (the great year, precession of the equinoxes).
> > Â
> > 4. I am happy to hear that the referring to the coordinated Dularaka ayanamsha VE is at 5Â°23'37" (coordinated) Aries.Â I wonder what will be the predicton on this basis of ayanamsha, other things remaining the same.
> > Although I do not believe prediction can predict 100 percent, butÂ I do not rule out the possiblity of prediction success of about 60 percent. I feel the other five planets apart from the sun, the moon and Rahu ketu are misrepresented.
> > Thank you again, for your supportÂ as well asÂ educating me in certain aspects of astronomy.Â .
> > Hari Malla
> >
> > Â
> > Â
> > --- On Thu, 4/5/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@>
> > Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
> > To: "Hari Malla" <harimalla@>
> > Date: Thursday, April 5, 2012, 7:18 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Mr. Hari Malla,
> > Â
> > 1) 
> > Â
> > Zodiac is situated round the ecliptic, extending 8-9Â° north or south of the ecliptic, in the celestial sphere. This means zodiac is situated in infinity. Therefore the distance between the Sun and the Earth is negligible when compared with the distance to the Zodiac.
> > Â
> > Therefore we can use the same zodiac in both heliocentric and geocentric versions. In heliocentric version, the zodiac is centered at Sun. In geocentric version, the zodiac is centered at Earth. But both versions refer to one and the same zodiac. Therefore what you say is correct.
> > Â
> > 2) 
> > Â
> > No.
> > Â
> > Days, months, years and several billion years in my mail refer to changing signs of heavenly bodies (both planets and stars).
> > Â
> > We cannot ignore the proper motion of planets in one Kalpa for the stars that are closer to us.
> > Â
> > Proper motion was suspected by early astronomers (according to Macrobius, AD 400) but proof was provided in 1718 by Edmund Halley, who noticed that Sirius, Arcturus and Aldebaran were over half a degree away from the positions charted by the ancient Greek astronomer Hipparchus roughly 1850 years earlier.[23]
> > Â
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_motion
> > Â
> > Proper motion of stars is important when one defines the zodiac. Therefore if we always fix Shaula at 0deg Sag or Aldebaren at 15deg Taurus, even the sidereal zodiac will keep moving over years.
> > Â
> > 3) <By the way do you agree with the 25,800 years figure for one Kalpa or cycle of precession?>
> > Â
> > That depends on how we define Kalpa. This is your definition and it is acceptable to me.
> > Â
> > 4) I would also request you to kindly send your present value of Dulakara ayanamsha.
> > Â
> > 24Â°36'23"
> > Â
> > If we shift the zero point of ayanamsha by 30 degrees for the sake of coordination, what will be the new reformed value of Dulakara ayanamsha?
> > Â
> > VE is at 5Â°23'37" (coordinated) Aries.
> > Â
> > Thank you.
> > Harsha Indrasena
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 8:06 AM, Hari Malla <harimalla@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Harsha Indrasenji,
> >
> > Thank you for your reply. I am impressed by yourÂ thorough knowledge of astronomy.
> > I liked your following expresion too..
> >
> > <Sidereal zodiac is fixed. Its background is empty. It is just 12 equal parts in sky. It is not composed of stars. Planets move rapidly over days, monthsÂ and years, and stars move very very slowly over millions and billions of years across it.>
> > IÂ request you to confirm that siereal zodiacs though composed of 12 equal parts in emptyÂ space is centered at the sun. I would like to add, 'when we consider the sun at the center of the circle of zodiac stars, it is the highest experience man can have. He bcomes a Buddha! This isÂ what SS says. This is what our panchangas says, when we add the speed of nakshytras( meaning moon)Â to the speed of the sun( meaning the earth inits orbit), then we get Yoga. This Yoga is Buddhahood the reltionship of the sun to the stars, in its pratically static postion.
> > I say 'practically' because, if negligibly moving in one hundered life times or generationÂ Â for we living creatures,Â is surely practicaly fixed. One hundered lifetime is say about 10,000 years. And a peiod ofÂ 10,000 yearsÂ inhistory is already prehistoric by human standards and its civilisation. Stars moving over millions and billions of years is not connected with our eye vision and our civilisatio, since we live only for 100 years andÂ history of our civilisationÂ is not more thanÂ 5,000 to 10 000 years. Our human experience of staticÂ natureÂ is quite limited and also eternity. Our life and death is surely trancscended in one life time by a Budha. and if not in one lifetime then surely in a hundered lifetimes by other humans. So much for human philosophy and end of rebirths of one person.
> > Now coming to our coordinative system, we shift one rashi sankranti of 30 degrees, for coordinating the sidereal and the tropical zodiacs about every 2,150 years. This is one manawantar of 12 shifts in one Kalpa of 25,800 years, in my view. I am sure you wil agree that the shift of stars in one Kalpa of 25,800 years is quite negligible. By the way do you agree with the 25,800 years figure for one Kalpa or cycle of precession?
> > .I would also rquest you to kinldy send your present value of Dularka ayanamsha. If we shift the zero point of aynamsha by 30 degrees for the sake of coordination, what will be the new reformed value of Dularka ayanmsha?
> > Â
> > Thank you for our cooperation?
> > Â
> > Hari Malla
> >
> > Â
> > Â
> > Â
> > Â
> > --- On Tue, 4/3/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@>
> > Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
> > To: JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 3:20 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Â
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Mr. Hari Malla,
> > Â
> > I very well agree with your philosophical views.
> > Â
> > <Please note that galactic center is in no way dealt with, in our scriptures and it is meaningless to talk about it in the ancient context. This is complete misconeption to jump to conclusions and a sheer waste of time.>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sidereal Galactic center has been defined by approximating known sidereal zodiac with the event that occurred in July 1998. Without knowing approximate location of sidereal zodiac one cannot give longitudes to this point. I consider this as a rough approximation rather than the eternal truth.
> > Â
> >
> >
> > <This modern concept of science has zero effect in our practical lives.>
> >
> >
> > Modern astronomy will never ever be able to find out the beginning of sidereal Aries. We must try to find out true sidereal zodiac by scrutinizing ancient wisdom. That is why astrology is a divine science.
> > Â
> >
> >
> > <Thus my request to drop this associaton with muladhara chakra which is misleading. It is as misleading as to say that one manwantar is equal to 40 years.>
> >
> >
> > It is quite true that Mula or Shaula star is closer to a zero than Spica or Chitra star. But Shaula is not a good reference point because this star is located far beyond the ecliptic. Â None of the planets touches this star during their course. Therefore Chitra is a better reference point than Mula star.
> > Â
> >
> >
> > Other thing is that we cannot fix the longitudes of stars. Stars do move and change positions over time. We must fit the stars into nakshatras and rashis, in the same way that we do with planets, rather than fitting the nakshatras and rashis to stars.
> > Â
> >
> >
> > Sidereal zodiac is fixed. Its background is empty. It is just 12 equal parts in sky. It is not composed of stars. Planets move rapidly over days, monthsÂ and years, and stars move very very slowly over millions and billions of years across it.
> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
> >
> >
> > With regards Harsha Indrasena
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 9:35 AM, hari <harimalla@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Â
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear all,
> > A friendly tip here. Please note that galactic center is in no way dealt with, in our scriptures and it is meaningless to talk about it in the ancient context. This is complete misconeption to jump to conclusions and a sheer waste of time.
> > This modern concept of science has zero effect in our practical lives.
> > Thus my request to drop this associaton with muladhara chakra which is misleading. It is as misleading as to say that one manwantar is equal to 40 years.
> > Also 'muladhar chakra' in my view is related to the center of the earth or earth core.
> > thank you.
> > Hari Malla
> >
> >
> > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, "sreesog" <sreesog@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Narasimha ji,
> > > I have a question/dobt. What would be the longitude of Galaxy Center
> > > when Mula star is at 0Sg0? In this case will Galaxy Center be at the
> > > middle of Mula Nakshatra or somewhere else?
> > > Also can you please include the relative longitudes of all important
> > > stars (Yoga taras) in JHora to help such researches? That could be much
> > > helpful - not only in such studies but also asserting the Vedic and
> > > Puranic astronomic statements, in some cases.
> > > Love and regards,
> > > Sreenadh
> > >
> >
> >
> > > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, "sreesog" <sreesog@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Narasimha ji, Sunil ji and All,
> > > > //> Please convey my regards to your learned friend. His words are
> > > > > meaningful.//
> > > > Yes, and definitely from those words itself it is well evidant that
> > > > those words are NOT of Chandrahari ji.
> > > > //> Galactic Center at 240 deg will make ayanamsa deviate many degrees
> > > > from
> > > > > Lahiri. BTW, this option is already supported in JHora 7.51!//
> > > > Yes, True.
> > > > //> Apart from Galactic center at 0Sg0, JHora 7.51 also includes a
> > > fixed
> > > > > star based implementation of Chandra Hari ayanamsa, where Lambda
> > > > Scorpii
> > > > > star (Shaula) is always placed at 0Sg0. Please note that Lambda
> > > > Scorpii
> > > > > star used by Chandra Hari is several degrees away from the Galactic
> > > > > Center!//
> > > > Yes, True.
> > > > //> Philosophically speaking, I too am not really convinced that 180
> > > deg
> > > > > point must be the anchor for defining ayanamsa.//
> > > > Good realization!
> > > > //> (1) Focus on Prajapati, the Creator. For example, Aldebaran (Alpha
> > > > > Tauri) can be placed at the center of Taurus in Rohini (the star
> > > owned
> > > > > by Prajapati). JHora already offers this option. The other option
> > > not
> > > > > supported by JHora yet is to place Aldebaran at the center of Rohini
> > > > > itself.
> > > > > (2) Apart from Prajapati's star, it would make sense for the
> > > > *Mooladhara
> > > > > chakra* of Kaala Purusha to be the anchor.//
> > > > I appreciate this approach. Possibly Rohini (Aldebaran) star as
> > > the
> > > > star of Brahma and Rohini Nakshatra as the Birth star of Brahma points
> > > > to the position of Aldebaran at the middle of Rohini Nakshatra itself
> > > > (and not to Aldebaran at the middle of Taurus). I have a question -
> > > Is
> > > > it not giving importance to the Nakshatra and Star of Creation/Brahma
> > > > and placing it at the middle of Rohini Nakshatra, almost exactly same
> > > as
> > > > Chandrahari's Ayanamsa? (Even though the focus of opinion and
> > > arguments
> > > > expressed may differ, the Ayanamsa value will remains almost the same
> > > in
> > > > both these cases I think. Please clarify)
> > > > //> Just because the Moola star is named "Moola", some people
> > > associate
> > > > it
> > > > > with Mooladhara chakra. That is questionable. //
> > > > True. The Vedic name for Mula is "Mula Barhis" which rather means
> > > > "the one which spins and expands, or the root of everything (present
> > > in
> > > > the universe?)". Or in other words possibly Mula Nakshatra got its
> > > name
> > > > more because of its association with Galactic Center and not because
> > > of
> > > > its association with Mula star. Even when the position of Mula star
> > > at
> > > > 0Sg0 becomes questionable the connection of Mula Nakshatra with
> > > Galactic
> > > > Center cannot be questioned. The name Mula is more connected with
> > > with
> > > > Galactic Center (of Milky way galaxy) and not to the Muladhara Chakra
> > > > concept etc which are possibly of later day origin.
> > > > Another point is that, even though philosophical perspective, and
> > > also
> > > > the available Mesopotamian horoscopes supports a Galectic Center
> > > > Ayanamsa; the results predicated by Indian astrology classics match
> > > with
> > > > the given horoscope, only when the foundations proposed by Indian
> > > > siddhantic texts and Ayanamsa based on the same are followed. (For me
> > > > Surya Siddhantic Chandrahari Ayanamsa works well in this regard; even
> > > > though I don't force the argument that others should follow the same.
> > > > When it comes to prediction, everyone should follow what works for
> > > them
> > > > best - because astrology is a practical branch of knowledge). From a
> > > > philosophical point of view I appreciate Galaxy Centric Ayanamsa but
> > > it
> > > > do not work for me while dealing with Indian astrology (possibly
> > > because
> > > > through centuries the results are modified and made in tune with Surya
> > > > Siddhantic Ayanamsa etc by the indian practitioners of astrology), but
> > > > the Indian Ayanamsas (whether it be Chandrahari, True Chitrapaksha or
> > > > whatever nearby) works better for Indian astrology. If I am to read
> > > the
> > > > chart using Mesopotamian astrology principles and method, I would
> > > prefer
> > > > to use Galaxy Centric Ayanamsa, but not while dealing with Indian
> > > > astrology.
> > > > Love and regards,
> > > > Sreenadh
> > > >
> > > > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Namaste Sunil ji,
> > > > >
> > > > > Please convey my regards to your learned friend. His words are
> > > > > meaningful.
> > > > >
> > > > > Galactic Center at 240 deg will make ayanamsa deviate many degrees
> > > > from
> > > > > Lahiri. BTW, this option is already supported in JHora 7.51!
> > > > >
> > > > > Apart from Galactic center at 0Sg0, JHora 7.51 also includes a fixed
> > > > > star based implementation of Chandra Hari ayanamsa, where Lambda
> > > > Scorpii
> > > > > star (Shaula) is always placed at 0Sg0. Please note that Lambda
> > > > Scorpii
> > > > > star used by Chandra Hari is several degrees away from the Galactic
> > > > > Center!
> > > > >
> > > > > Your friend's suggestion of the intersection of galactic equator and
> > > > > ecliptic is interesting and may be worth investigating.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > Philosophically speaking, I too am not really convinced that 180 deg
> > > > > point must be the anchor for defining ayanamsa.
> > > > >
> > > > > I can think of two logical possibilities:
> > > > >
> > > > > (1) Focus on Prajapati, the Creator. For example, Aldebaran (Alpha
> > > > > Tauri) can be placed at the center of Taurus in Rohini (the star
> > > owned
> > > > > by Prajapati). JHora already offers this option. The other option
> > > not
> > > > > supported by JHora yet is to place Aldebaran at the center of Rohini
> > > > > itself.
> > > > > (2) Apart from Prajapati's star, it would make sense for the
> > > > *Mooladhara
> > > > > chakra* of Kaala Purusha to be the anchor.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > Just because the Moola star is named "Moola", some people associate
> > > it
> > > > > with Mooladhara chakra. That is questionable. If stars are named
> > > based
> > > > > on chakras they represent, show me stars named based on other six
> > > > > chakras (svAdhiShThAna etc)!
> > > > >
> > > > > Moola simply means root and can be the root of anything. For
> > > example,
> > > > > "bAhu-mUla" (root of arm) means armpit. As Sg shows thighs of Kaala
> > > > > Purusha, Moola star (ruled by Nirriti!) at its beginning could show
> > > > the
> > > > > root of thighs, i.e. groins. That is NOT the location of Mooladhara
> > > > > chakra.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > Mooladhara chakra is supposed to be located a little above anus and
> > > a
> > > > > little below the reproductive organ, both shown by Scorpio. After
> > > all,
> > > > > when Parasara defined zodiacal signs, he said Vi, Li, Sc and Sg are
> > > > the
> > > > > hips (kaTi), lower belly/abdomen (basti), privities (guhya) and
> > > thighs
> > > > > (Uru) of Kaala Purusha (respectively). Thus, Mooladhara chakra must
> > > be
> > > > > *well within* Scorpio, perhaps near the middle! Placing at at 0Sg0
> > > > makes
> > > > > no sense.
> > > > >
> > > > > Antares (Alpha Scorpii) is one of the brightest stars in that region
> > > > and
> > > > > one of the very few stars to lie within 5 deg from the ecliptic
> > > plane.
> > > > >
> > > > > One option is to place Antares in the middle of Scorpio (i.e.
> > > 15Sc0).
> > > > > The other (and better) option is to place it at the beginning of
> > > > > Jyeshtha star (i.e. 16Sc40). Please note that Jyeshtha means "the
> > > > > first/main/chief one".
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, Jyeshtha star is ruled by Indra and the deity of Mooladhara
> > > > chakra
> > > > > as per Tantras is also four-armed Indra on a white elephant!! The
> > > > beeja
> > > > > of Indra is laM (laM indrAya namaH) and laM is also the beeja of
> > > > > Mooladhara chakra!
> > > > >
> > > > > Apart from Indra, some texts also associate Ganapati with Mooladhara
> > > > > chakra and note that Ganapati is mentioned in RigVeda as
> > > jyeShTha-rAja
> > > > > (king of Jyeshtha)! Bottomline is that Mooladhara chakra controls
> > > > earth
> > > > > element or solid state of existence and offers stability and
> > > > > groundedness to one's awareness. Ganapati symbolizes that and so
> > > does
> > > > > Indra (indriyas or senses!) riding an elephant (solid/grounded
> > > > state!).
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > I am just thinking loud here, as far as "Jyeshthapaksha" ayanamsa
> > > > based
> > > > > on Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara chakra in Jyeshtha star is concerned.
> > > > >
> > > > > In any case, I am not at all convinced that 0Sg0 shows Mooladhara
> > > > chakra
> > > > > and hence should anchor the zodiac. If one carefully studies rasis
> > > of
> > > > > zodiac, body parts of Kaala Purusha shown by them and the location
> > > of
> > > > > chakras as per Tantras, one will conclude that Mooladhara chakra
> > > must
> > > > > lie *well within* Scorpio and close to its center.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just my 2 cents - take it or leave it!
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Narasimha
> > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,
> > > > > "Do It Yourself" ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:
> > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
> > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org
> > > > > Spirituality: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vedic-wisdom
> > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JyotishWritings
> > > > > Twitter ID: @homam108
> > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> >
> >
> > > > > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Sunil Bhattacharjya
> > > > > sunil_bhattacharjya@ wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Namaste Narasimhaji,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You wrote:
> > > > > > Quote
> > > > > >> not name it "Narasimha ayanamsa". I named it "Jagannatha
> > > ayanamsa".
> > > > > >> It > is available in JHora.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> In standard Lahiri ayanamsa, Chitra (spica) star *fluctuates*
> > > > around
> > > > > >> 180 > deg. In Jagannatha ayanamsa, Chitra is always *fixed* at
> > > > > >> exactly 180 > deg.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Secondly, the 2-dimensional plane onto which heavenly bodies are
> > > >
> > > > > >> projected is a *fluctuating* plane, in Lahiri ayanamsa (and most
> > > > > >> other > ayanamsas). Suppose we make a natal chart in April 1970
> > > and
> > > > a
> > > > > >> transit > chart in October 2011 and correlate planetary
> > > positions.
> > > > > >> The planes on > which planets are projected are totally different
> > > > on
> > > > > >> the two dates! Yet, > we compare the positions!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> In Jagannatha ayanamsa, this plane is fixed and does not change
> > > > from
> > > > > >> one > day to another. Instead of using the fluctuating Sun-earth
> > > > > >> rotation > plane, Jagannatha ayanamsa uses the *mean* Sun-earth
> > > > > >> rotation plane. So > it is fixed and does not fluctuate.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Thus, Jagannatha ayanamsa is just Lahiri ayanamsa with a truly
> > > > fixed
> > > > > >> > zero point and a fixed plane. It is very close to Lahiri
> > > > ayanamsa.
> > > > > > Unquote
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you for your reply. I have a liking for astrology but it may
> > > > not
> > > > > > be the very orthodox style of astrology. I am also not an
> > > unbeliever
> > > > > > in astrology like Kaulji has become with a vengeance. That is why
> > > > the
> > > > > > ayanamsha controversy did not not bug me as much as it has done to
> > > > > > Kaulji.BTW has Kaulji commented on the "Jagannatha ayanamsa"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As regards the "Jagannatha ayanamsa" I was asking a knowledgeable
> > > > > > friend about your efforts on correcting the Lahiri ayanamsha. He
> > > has
> > > > > > the following to say:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Quote
> > > > > > If Citra has to be the anchor of the sidereal zodiac, then
> > > Narasimha
> > > > > > Rao's method is no doubt an important correction to the Lahiri
> > > > > > ayanamsha. However, from a philosophical point of view, I do not
> > > see
> > > > > > why Citra should play such an important part in astrology as to
> > > > define
> > > > > > the beginning of the rashichakra. E.g., why not take the Galactic
> > > > > > Centre at the beginning of Mulanakshatra? Kindly think of the
> > > > meaning
> > > > > > of mula! That would make more sense, would it not? Or maybe even
> > > > > > better: the intersection point of the Galactic equator with the
> > > > > > ecliptic could be put at the beginning of Mula? Or if you put that
> > > > > > intersection point into the middle of Mulanakshatra, it would even
> > > > be
> > > > > > close to Lahiri-Ayanamsha.
> > > > > > Unquote
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Will you like comment on it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Sunil KB
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > From: Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@
> > > > > > To: JyotishWritings@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > > > JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 3:25 PM
> > > > > > Subject: [JyotishGroup] Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta
> > > > vs
> > > > > > SSS
> > > > > > Namaste Ranjan,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for the nice words. The thing with intuition is that it
> > > > cannot
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > transmitted. One needs to work hard to develop it and often some
> > > > > > moral/spiritual fabric is needed in one's character. Logical
> > > > knowledge
> > > > > > on the other hand can be transmitted and preserved.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sadly, people have corrupted the "logical knowledge" portion of
> > > > > > Jyotish
> > > > > > teachings of rishis and making up for it with intuition for the
> > > last
> > > > > > several centuries.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But, with the the age of intelligent machines dawning on humanity
> > > > and
> > > > > > moral/spiritual fabric of humanity seeing a fast deterioration,
> > > > > > retrieving SOME "logical knowledge" portions of the teachings of
> > > > > > rishis
> > > > > > and preserving for coming generations in an easy form will be very
> > > > > > valuable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Namaste Sunil ji,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are many parameters other than ayanamsa, where people have
> > > > > > different opinions. Resolving the ayanamsa issue is just one piece
> > > > of
> > > > > > the puzzle.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > BTW, I have already come up with an ayanamsa, in 2008-2009. But I
> > > > did
> > > > > > not name it "Narasimha ayanamsa". I named it "Jagannatha
> > > ayanamsa".
> > > > It
> > > > > > is available in JHora.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In standard Lahiri ayanamsa, Chitra (spica) star *fluctuates*
> > > around
> > > > > > 180
> > > > > > deg. In Jagannatha ayanamsa, Chitra is always *fixed* at exactly
> > > 180
> > > > > > deg.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Secondly, the 2-dimensional plane onto which heavenly bodies are
> > > > > > projected is a *fluctuating* plane, in Lahiri ayanamsa (and most
> > > > other
> > > > > > ayanamsas). Suppose we make a natal chart in April 1970 and a
> > > > transit
> > > > > > chart in October 2011 and correlate planetary positions. The
> > > planes
> > > > on
> > > > > > which planets are projected are totally different on the two
> > > dates!
> > > > > > Yet,
> > > > > > we compare the positions!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In Jagannatha ayanamsa, this plane is fixed and does not change
> > > from
> > > > > > one
> > > > > > day to another. Instead of using the fluctuating Sun-earth
> > > rotation
> > > > > > plane, Jagannatha ayanamsa uses the *mean* Sun-earth rotation
> > > plane.
> > > > > > So
> > > > > > it is fixed and does not fluctuate.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thus, Jagannatha ayanamsa is just Lahiri ayanamsa with a truly
> > > fixed
> > > > > > zero point and a fixed plane. It is very close to Lahiri ayanamsa.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > Narasimha
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Sunil Bhattacharjya
> > > > > > <sunil_bhattacharjya@> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Dear Rohini,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Narasimhaji said:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> QUOTE
> > > > > >> I have not yet found what I am looking for, though I experimented
> > > a
> > > > > >> lot.
> > > > > >>> Neither SSS nor drik siddhanta with Lahiri/Jagannatha ayanamsa
> > > > (and
> > > > > >>> Tithi Pravesha etc) come close to that really. Nor does anything
> > > > > >>> else
> > > > > >>> I ever had exposure to.
> > > > > >> UNQUOTE
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Is it a prelude to Mr. Narasimha's possible coming out with a
> > > > > >> "Narasimha Ayanamsha"? Let us hope the Ayanamsha debate will be
> > > put
> > > > > >> to
> > > > > >> rest soon.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Best,
> > > > > >> SKB
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> ________________________________
> > > > > >> From: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@>
> > > > > >> To: JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012
> > > > 10:50
> > > > > >> PM
> > > > > >> Subject: [JyotishGroup] Re: Turning the clock back: Drik
> > > Siddhanta
> > > > vs
> > > > > >> SSS
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Ãƒâ€š Happy Gudi Padwa, Narasimha!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> As the craft progresses and so do we, I am reminded of the words
> > > of
> > > > > >> Charles, my wise friend, which I paraphrase, rather than copy and
> > > > > >> paste!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> The bird of divination has two wings, Logic and Intuition. Cut
> > > off
> > > > > >> either one and the bird flops around, going in circles but never
> > > > > >> managing to leave ground and "take-off"
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> What you have given to Jyotish already, regardless of what
> > > > jyotishis
> > > > > >> and jyotishi-wanna_bees realize or not is simplicity, clarity and
> > > > > >> HONESTY!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Whether they *took* it or not is THEIR PROBLEM!!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Warm regards,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Ranjan
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Namaste friends,
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Happy new lunar year Nandana!
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> If you are not interested in my views on Jyotish techniques and
> > > > > >>> controversies, please skip this mail.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Those who follow my Jyotish writings know that I switched to
> > > using
> > > > > >>> SSS (Sri Surya Siddhanta) for planetary calculations, at the end
> > > > of
> > > > > >>> 2010. I wrote a lot on it for a few months and then went almost
> > > > > >>> silent. The reason was that I was evaluating SSS vs drik
> > > siddhanta
> > > > > >>> with many more examples, after the initial euphoria died down. I
> > > > > >>> revisited many previous predictions and evaluated many more
> > > charts
> > > > > >>> and events and analyzed whether I made the right judgment in
> > > 2010.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Some people may be excited to hear this, some may be
> > > disappointed
> > > > > >>> and
> > > > > >>> some may be confused. But none of that is my intention. This is
> > > > just
> > > > > >>> an impassionate and rational judgment made over time. My
> > > apologies
> > > > > >>> to
> > > > > >>> anyone who is troubled by this in any way.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> * * *
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> It is my judgment that drik siddhanta with Lahiri/Jagannatha
> > > > > >>> ayanamsa
> > > > > >>> allowed me to make the most successful predictions, especially
> > > > using
> > > > > >>> the technique of Tithi Pravesha (learnt from, and thanks to, Pt
> > > > > >>> Sanjay Rath). Drik siddhanta with Jagannatha ayanamsa (a slight
> > > > > >>> variation of Lahiri ayanamsa) allowed me to come up with the
> > > most
> > > > > >>> promising objective techniques based on objective correlations
> > > > > >>> between divisional longitudes (e.g. stationary transits, padamsa
> > > > > >>> transits, vimsottari progression & transits, transit
> > > conjunctions
> > > > > >>> etc). Tithi Prav esha and none of those objective longitude
> > > > > >>> correlation techniques seem to work well with SSS and I could
> > > not
> > > > > >>> come up with any other objective methods with SSS. Though there
> > > > were
> > > > > >>> a few things (e.g. divisional Vimsottari dasa) that I was happy
> > > > with
> > > > > >>> when using SSS, they did not measure up in the final analysis,
> > > in
> > > > > >>> terms of consistency, objectivity and reliability with a much
> > > > larger
> > > > > >>> set of examples.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> After careful consideration over a few months, I determined that
> > > > > >>> turning the clock back by 13-14 months and switching back to
> > > drik
> > > > > >>> siddhanta and Jagannatha ayanamsa is the best way forward for me
> > > > to
> > > > > >>> carry on my Jyotish researches. That is what I will be doing in
> > > my
> > > > > >>> public writings, from today onwards!
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I have integrated a few ideas developed during the SSS journey
> > > > (e.g.
> > > > > >>> divisional Vimsottari dasa, correct interpretation of Parasara's
> > > > > >>> verses on aspect evaluation) into my old methodology based on
> > > drik
> > > > > >>> siddhanta and Jagannatha ayanamsa. I will be using them going
> > > > > >>> forward. But my staple will again be Tithi Pravesha. I will also
> > > > be
> > > > > >>> again picking up several interesting objective researches based
> > > on
> > > > > >>> divisional longitudes, which I came up with during 2008-2010
> > > > (please
> > > > > >>> see http://www.vedicastrologer.org/articles for the wrtieups).
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> * * *
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Just to be clear, Jagannatha Hora software will continue to
> > > > support
> > > > > >>> SSS, so that those who are interested in it can use it. Also, I
> > > am
> > > > > >>> thankful to Sri Vinay Jha for enabling me to experiment with SSS
> > > > and
> > > > > >>> to enable users of JHora to experiment with it. But I will not
> > > be
> > > > > >>> using SSS or promoting it anymore.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> * * *
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I have to honestly say one thing here.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> One learned friend once said that astrology is a combination of
> > > > > >>> science and art. He honestly said he started off with a "more
> > > > > >>> science
> > > > > >>> and less art" approach when young and settled with a "less
> > > science
> > > > > >>> and more art" approach in the end. He said everyone has to
> > > strike
> > > > > >>> the
> > > > > >>> right balance for oneself.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Some use tropical zodiac, some use sidereal zodiac, some use a
> > > > > >>> combination. Some use Lahiri ayanamsa, some use Krishnamoorthy
> > > > > >>> ayanamsa, some use some other ayanamsas. Some use rasi, some use
> > > > > >>> rasi-navamsa, some use all divisional charts. Some use
> > > Vimsottari
> > > > > >>> dasa, some use Chara dasa, some use many dasas. There are many
> > > > > >>> variations. People find what works for them and settle with some
> > > > > >>> "less science and more art" approach that suits their mind.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I too struck my balance in the past, but never stopped and kept
> > > > > >>> searching for a method that reduces the role of art (intuition).
> > > I
> > > > > >>> am
> > > > > >>> not looking to just strike a balance personally and pursue
> > > > something
> > > > > >>> for myself. My goal is to unearth some techniques that
> > > *minimize*
> > > > > >>> the
> > > > > >>> role of *intuition*, so that laymen of future generations can
> > > > > >>> benefit
> > > > > >>> from Jyotish, atleast for basic guidance in major life
> > > decisions,
> > > > > >>> without depending on astrologers who are increasingly becoming
> > > > > >>> commercial and unreliable.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I have not yet found what I am looking for, though I
> > > experimented
> > > > a
> > > > > >>> lot. Neither SSS nor drik siddhanta with Lahiri/Jagannatha
> > > > ayanamsa
> > > > > >>> (and Tithi Pravesha etc) come close to that really. Nor does
> > > > > >>> anything
> > > > > >>> else I ever had exposure to. Intuition still has *too
> > > significant*
> > > > a
> > > > > >>> role in all these techniques for them to be really useful to
> > > > laymen.
> > > > > >>> That is why I keep searching for something better. If I make a
> > > > wrong
> > > > > >>> turn, I'll come back when I realize it.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> In the end, it may very well turn out that my whole goal is a
> > > pipe
> > > > > >>> dream. A technique that minimizes the role of intuition and
> > > usable
> > > > > >>> by
> > > > > >>> laymen may not even exist, though some statements by Parasara in
> > > > > >>> BPHS
> > > > > >>> give me hope. Those who follow me overzealously may kindly note
> > > > this
> > > > > >>> possibility. I am perfectly ok with spending my entire life and
> > > > not
> > > > > >>> reaching my goal. If your goal is to strike some personal
> > > balance
> > > > > >>> and
> > > > > >>> becoming a good astrologer, you may be better off sticking to
> > > > > >>> something or the other (instead of following me on each turn and
> > > > > >>> twist) and working on your *intuition* through spiritual
> > > > practices.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Best regards,
> > > > > >>> Narasimha
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (4)

#64394

From: Hari Malla <harimalla@...>
Date: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:22 pm
Subject: Re: A few drops from the Ocean of Vedic Knowledge- Vedic Physical Sciences

harimalla...

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Dear Sabhlokji,

Thank you for your support. Such analysis has been done by the Governent of Nepal and they have come to some solid conclucsions. They have recommended that all the Hindu festivals both solar and the lunar ones must be moved one month backwards, so that the Vedic seasons involed with those festivals will be correct or restored,.

Hope you will support this recommendation. Would you like to know more about this? thank you any way for your openenss.

Hari Malla

--- On Tue, 4/10/12, Prem Sabhlok <premsabhlok@...> wrote:

From: Prem Sabhlok <premsabhlok@...>
Subject: A few drops from the Ocean of Vedic Knowledge- Vedic Physical Sciences
To: "Hari Malla" <harimalla@...>
Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 2:13 PM

Dear Hari Malla ji,

I entirely agree with you that some learned person should analyse our Fetivals whether they conform to Vedic spiritual science (metaphysics) or not.

Also we need to analyse whether our religious priests are performing their functions/rituals/yajnas etc conforming to Vedic guidelines/teachings

Regards

Prem Sabhlok

--- On Tue, 10/4/12, Hari Malla <harimalla@...> wrote:

From: Hari Malla <harimalla@...>
Subject: Re: A few drops from the Ocean of Vedic Knowledge- Vedic Physical Sciences
To: "Prem Sabhlok" <premsabhlok@...>
Date: Tuesday, 10 April, 2012, 7:16 AM

Dear Sabhlokji,

<The scientists are advised to study cause and effect of all material elements and also how the objects are produced and there after utilize these properly (R.V. 5-47-3)>

Are the religous people not to follow this same sermon. How about analysing our festivals wether they are in the times as suggesed by the Vedas or not?

Thank you,
Har iMalla-

- On Tue, 4/10/12, Prem Sabhlok <premsabhlok@...> wrote:

From: Prem Sabhlok <premsabhlok@...>
Subject: A few drops from the Ocean of Vedic Knowledge- Vedic Physical Sciences
To: poornima.ap@..., popli.raman@..., "Vedas Bhan" <bhank17@...>, "Hari V-32" <hari_bhudia@...>, "GGN Hitesh Puri" <hpuri2007@...>, highesteem.surabi@..., himani.dugar@..., "Vivek VHP" <vivek.vhp@...>, omnath.garg@..., ompratisthan@...
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Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 12:01 AM

(Know Thy Vedas)

Rig Veda 1-72-2 and 8 mentions that the greatest service to God is to spread the spirit of Vedas with honesty, straight-forwardness, without deceit of any kind, for all to enjoy true and spiritual happiness.

Subject: Vedic Physical Sciences and Scientific Temper

The Vedas combine science with metaphysics and clearly mention that it is God who is the giver of knowledge of all sciences as "Sahstra sam " (R.V. 1-10-11).

The scientists are advised to study cause and effect of all material elements and also how the objects are produced and there after utilize these properly (R.V. 5-47-3). By following these guidelines they can alleviate much suffering of the people (R.V. 5-77-4). Without the knowledge and practical application of physical sciences, it is not possible to eradicate poverty and attain prosperity (R.V. 1-34-1 to 5).

In the Rig-Veda the focal point is the human being and the knowledge about physical sciences contained there in is for the welfare of the entire mankind.

This knowledge also helps the human beings to develop Scientific Outlook.

To get a feel of Vedic physical sciences, reference to a few hymns are given in the very beginning. The Sun never sets or rises and it is the earth, which rotates (Sama Veda121). The gravitational effect of solar system makes the earth stable (R.V.1-103-2, 1-115-4 and 5-81-2). The subtle axle of the earth does not get rusted and the earth continues to revolve on its axle (R.V. 1-164-29). The science of Time and its subtle nature is described in (R.V.1-92-12 and 1-95-8). The need to study the properties of water, air and fire for discovering and manufacturing aircrafts, ships and other vehicles capable of moving in the firmament, land and water are mentioned in Rig Veda 1-3-1,2, 1-34-1, 1-140-1 and many other hymns.

Physical sciences relating to agriculture, medicine, astronomy mathematics particularly algebra, toxicology etc. are described in R.V.1-71-9, 4-57-5, Sama Veda 121 and many other hymns/riks.

For a better appreciation of Vedic science, a few terms used in the original Vedic bhasha (language) as contained in the mantras/riks are mentioned. Viman diye neshu for vehicles like aircrafts (RV 1-34-1, 9 and 1-85-7). Vaj gatau- very high-speed vehicles in the air (R.V 6-60-12). Rekha di ganit vidys vigyaya- the science of Algebra (R.V 1-19-1). Surya Vidyau tau- knowledge of the Sun and electricity. Indr-agani- power, energy and electricity (R.V 6-60-12, 13), krishna garbha- knower of Algebra (R.V 6-75-2). Vidyamadi bha vidyut vidyante yashate- in which electric telegraph wires have been arranged (R.V 1-88-1).

Many other terms and words relating to physical sciences can be found in these hymns like kanu, anu, bhutas, maha bhutas, tatva, maha tatva etc., The other terms have been used like Ratha for vehicles moving in the firmament and middle region, on the surface of the earth and over the water, ashvinau for scientists, anu and kanu for gross and subtle atoms, tan matras for sub atomic particles sponda for sound etc. Few other words are amritasya nidhi - ambrosia (R.V. 1-186-3), Brahamand pinda i.e macrocosm and microcosm. In Yajur Veda 18-24 and 25 many terms relating to addition, subtraction, division, square, cube, square root, and cube root have been used. Yajur Veda 18-22 and R.V. 6-22-2 also refer to certain other terms of the physical sciences.

In the Vedas scientists are described as men and women of absolute self-control, truthful with scientific outlook and destroyers of miseries (R.V., 1-3-4). With the help of these scientists one could travel far on the earth and also in the sky through conveyances, which run and touch the middle region (R.V., 1-3-1, 6-22-2 and 1-22-2).

Such scientists from both the sexes go across to distance places quickly like the mind and electricity (R.V., 1-71-9). In this hymn aircrafts and even space ships are hinted. These ashvinaus should be well versed in Physics, agricultural sciences (R.V. 4-57-5), medical sciences (R.V. 5-74-3), astronomy (S.V. 121) and other sciences.

There is a mention of infrared rays, study of Algebra (Rekha di ganit vidya), sound as a medium of knowledge for various sciences, diseases like bile, cough, jaundice and others and their treatment etc. The relevant hymns in this regard are in Rig-Veda 1-185-2, 1-12-1, 2, 1-22-1 to 4, 1-2-3, 1-95-1, 1-101-1 and many other.

For more details on Vedic science the seekers of Vedic knowledge can see Glimpses of Vedic Metaphysics for on line reading and even taking print at no cost on Website http://www,sabhlokcity.com/metaphysics/ OR through search engine of <google.com>, <yahoo.com>, <lulu.com>

Kindly render divine social service and forward this to other seekers of Vedic knowledge.

Revival of Vedas can strengthen Vedic Sanatan Dharma- eternal religion

With regards,

Yours Spiritual Brother,

Prem Sabhlok

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#64398

From: "Sunil" <astro_tellerkerala@...>
Date: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:28 pm
Subject: Re: [AIA] Father of medicine - Hippocrates and his importance to astrology

astro_teller...

Send Email

chiranjiv Ji and Harsha Ji

The words of Hippocratus explains the relation between all sciences and astrology and may b more explains the greece connection with india and its astrology and its medical stream

ayurveda also openly supports astrology and ayurveda

There were remains of ships wrecked in past which r of greece origin and has found bottles containing ayurvedic products and powders which r shipped to greece

what i am coming to tell here is till the semitic desert religions formed and attain prominace tru force and other methods all world was following same models in worship ,calender and upto a certain extent natural medicine ( atleast seasonal calenders are same pattern every where in world which is based on equinoxes and soltises )

Till roman empire florished and it took christinity as its official religion there is infomation that what ever there were practised as system of medicine is Lost and crushed and sidelined calling it is paganistic origin ,we Know there is reference that Julius ceaser was a c section baby and Later whole roman empire lost that kind of knowledge because this infleunce of other semitic religion s over the paganic religons

so till 15th century other wise till the period of rennaisance astrology was part of scientific discipline and was regrded as crown in jewel where after the materialistic based science devlpment and their relgious traditions taken a strong hold on modern semitic desert religions on all over world has givn this seperation frm other branches of Knowledge and astrology and more over astrology needs a strict observence of life system where as material based science has improved bit more and dependable than astrology .

In past there is muhurtha chikilsa was there in many systems of medicine means time to start the treatment etc or studying chart for possible problems etc were practised

The astrology and astronomy seperated in modern day and modern zodiac etc evolved is the reason were scientific temper etc on astrology started and main stream relgious blfs and supports also givn way for the attack against astrology ,same time astrology also lost its patronage and many times it has faced lot of hard ships and also destruction of many texts by barbarian attacks and destructions of many libraries also caused Lose many fine systems used in astrology .

but still those who has confusion abt future and its course etc is digging all the ways to find a answer to it

people r paying billions for getting some guidance in finance astrology in vain and there is hardly any one i find some one can realy guide a native tru with any kind of fundamental analaysis as whole market is based on speculation and manupulation of big weights and govmnts are spending crores for meteorological predictions called climate prediction tho it has more weaker basis than astrology but supported by the scientific anda viswas ( blind blfs ) mainly since Modern science also acting Like a religion

rgrds sunil nair

--- In ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com, vchiranjiv@... wrote:
>
> Maybe when astrology was relied on by people as a cure all and end all to all maladies and thus failed tests of unrealistic expectations.
> The critics of astro usually argue that if everything is preordained then ... This free will argument is due to lack of understanding by believers and non believers alike.
>
> While all that is to happen is predetermined it will happen so after u (re)act in such a way.
>
> Surrender is of the motive. Then there will be action. That which is not done with a selfish reason does not have binding karma.
> That which is just a reaction is only adding to the loop of karma's and action reactions.
>
> This is IMHO.
>
> Sent on my BlackBerry� from Vodafone
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "divine_seeker" divine_seeker@...
> Sender: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2012 15:39:53
> To: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com
> Reply-To: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [AIA] Father of medicine - Hippocrates and his importance to astrology
>
> As we all know, each modern doctor takes an Hippocrates oath before starting the professional practice after the academic training.
>
> It is interesting to note that he considered astrology as a vital tool for the best treatment for each individual. His famous quote --- A physician without a knowledge of Astrology has no right to call himself a physician.
>
> He has given important considerations for conducting surgeries etc.
>
> I wonder when astrology was dropped as a factor for consideration from medical professionals. Was it due to the bias of emperors against astrology or astrology with medicine became too complex?
>
> Regards,
> Harsha
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (5)

#64400

From: "sreesog" <sreesog@...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:09 am
Subject: Re: Hippocrates (BC 460-BC 380) on the importance to astrology

sreesog

Send Email

Source: http://www.crystalinks.com/hippocrates.html
======================

In medicine, clubbing (or digital clubbing) is a deformity of the fingers and fingernails that is associated with a number of diseases, mostly of the heart and lungs. Idiopathic clubbing can also occur. Hippocrates was probably the first to document clubbing as a sign of disease, and the phenomenon is therefore occasionally called Hippocratic fingers.

Medical astrology is an ancient medical system that associates various parts of the body, diseases, and drugs as under the influence of the Sun, Moon, and planets, along with the twelve astrological signs. Hippocrates, the Greek physician who is regarded as the father of medicine, insisted his students study astrology, saying, "He who does not understand astrology is not a doctor but a fool." Each of the astrological signs (along with the Sun, Moon, and planets) are associated with different parts of the human body. Also, many plants are referred to in old herbals as being "under the influence of" some planet. This was used as a codification of the plants properties and used to create mixtures specific to different diseases.The associations of the signs with the parts of the body are as follows:

Aries - head, face, brain, eyes
Taurus - throat, neck, thyroid gland, vocal tract
Gemini - arms, lungs, shoulders, hands, nervous sytem
Cancer - chest, breasts, stomach, alimentary canal
Leo - heart, chest, spine, spinal column, upper back
Virgo - digestive system, intestines, spleen, nervous system
Libra - kidneys, skin, lumbar region, buttocks
Scorpio - reproductive system, sexual organs, bowels, excretory system
Sagittarius - hips, thighs, liver, sciatic nerve
Capricorn - knees, joints, skeletal system
Aquarius - ankles, calves, circulatory systemPisces - feet, toes, lymphatic system, adipose tissue

======================
--- In ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com, "divine_seeker" <divine_seeker@...> wrote:
>
> As we all know, each modern doctor takes an Hippocrates oath before starting the professional practice after the academic training.
>
> It is interesting to note that he considered astrology as a vital tool for the best treatment for each individual. His famous quote --- A physician without a knowledge of Astrology has no right to call himself a physician.
>
> He has given important considerations for conducting surgeries etc.
>
> I wonder when astrology was dropped as a factor for consideration from medical professionals. Was it due to the bias of emperors against astrology or astrology with medicine became too complex?
>
> Regards,
> Harsha
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (5)

#64402

From: "Sunil" <astro_tellerkerala@...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:31 am
Subject: Re: Hippocrates (BC 460-BC 380) on the importance to astrology

astro_teller...

Send Email

Dear sreenadh Ji

Thanks for posting on Hippocratus

Now i Know why clubbing and partying is bad ,and u miss to copy meena rasi part with signs and parts of the body

let me check the Link ,oh it is missing in the article too ,or was greece people were on austerity those days i dont know

thanks and rgrds sunil nair

--- In ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com, "sreesog" <sreesog@...> wrote:
>
> Source: http://www.crystalinks.com/hippocrates.html
> <http://www.crystalinks.com/hippocrates.html>
> ======================
>
> In medicine, clubbing (or digital clubbing) is a deformity of the
> fingers and fingernails that is associated with a number of diseases,
> mostly of the heart and lungs. Idiopathic clubbing can also occur.
> Hippocrates was probably the first to document clubbing as a sign of
> disease, and the phenomenon is therefore occasionally called Hippocratic
> fingers.
>
> Medical astrology is an ancient medical system that associates various
> parts of the body, diseases, and drugs as under the influence of the
> Sun, Moon, and planets, along with the twelve astrological signs.
> Hippocrates, the Greek physician who is regarded as the father of
> medicine, insisted his students study astrology, saying, "He who does
> not understand astrology is not a doctor but a fool." Each of the
> astrological signs (along with the Sun, Moon, and planets) are
> associated with different parts of the human body. Also, many plants are
> referred to in old herbals as being "under the influence of" some
> planet. This was used as a codification of the plants properties and
> used to create mixtures specific to different diseases.The associations
> of the signs with the parts of the body are as follows:
>
>
>
> * Aries - head, face, brain, eyes
> * Taurus - throat, neck, thyroid gland, vocal tract
> * Gemini - arms, lungs, shoulders, hands, nervous sytem
> * Cancer - chest, breasts, stomach, alimentary canal
> * Leo - heart, chest, spine, spinal column, upper back
> * Virgo - digestive system, intestines, spleen, nervous system
> * Libra - kidneys, skin, lumbar region, buttocks
> * Scorpio - reproductive system, sexual organs, bowels, excretory
> system
> * Sagittarius - hips, thighs, liver, sciatic nerve
> * Capricorn - knees, joints, skeletal system
> * Aquarius - ankles, calves, circulatory systemPisces - feet, toes,
> lymphatic system, adipose tissue
>
> ======================
> --- In ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com, "divine_seeker"
> divine_seeker@ wrote:
> >
> > As we all know, each modern doctor takes an Hippocrates oath before
> starting the professional practice after the academic training.
> >
> > It is interesting to note that he considered astrology as a vital tool
> for the best treatment for each individual. His famous quote --- A
> physician without a knowledge of Astrology has no right to call himself
> a physician.
> >
> > He has given important considerations for conducting surgeries etc.
> >
> > I wonder when astrology was dropped as a factor for consideration from
> medical professionals. Was it due to the bias of emperors against
> astrology or astrology with medicine became too complex?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Harsha
> >
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (5)

#64403

From: Sunil Nair <astro_tellerkerala@...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:02 am
Subject: The Grand Canyon,Arizona US -- A indic culture ???

astro_teller...

Send Email

see the link a Budha Like ( or pasupati siva Like ) figure in grand canyon Lost city

http://www.crystalinks.com/gc_egyptconnection.html

Rgrds sunil Nair

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#64404

From: Hari Malla <harimalla@...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:07 am
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)

harimalla...

Send Email

Dear Harsha Indrasenji,

Thank you for your reply, I think you are quite clear in your opinion and very careful too.

The coordinated ayanamsha is for those who believe in astrology with the effects of the other five planets.. It is just a compromise with the astrologers who insists upon the reality of the effects of these planets, since this idea has been used for thousands of year, although with a misudnerstanding. Just not to go against this tradition, I do not mind the use of ayanamsha in sidereal predictive calculations.

The coordinated system is the periodic shift of the zero point of ayanamsha so that the coordination of the sidereal and tropicial relationship is never lost. Talking in terms of justification of the coordination which is different from the use of ayanmsha,i would like to say the following.

1. Ayanamsha is minor adjustment within one particular age where as coordination is major adjustment over the ages when the zero point of ayanmsha is shifted by 30 degreees at a time. Ayanamsha is thus limited to plus and minus 15 degrees at each age.

1. Lagan kundali is based on daily rotational movement of the earth which centers upon the pole point, Thus it is tropical based. The chandra rashi kundali is based upon the monthly revolutonary motion of the moon around the earth.

2. These two motions must be coordinated with respect to each other so the two view points can salvage the truth from both these two view points. These two view points are connected to our five senses( lagan kundali) and the intellect or mind (chandra rashi kundali). Since the five senses and the mind is both within the same person, they must as a first necessity be coordinated or harmonised so that the person is a integreted or a sane person. Please know that the earth takes these two motions as the daily rotation and the monthly wobble too. I hope you know about the monthly motion of the earth produced by the gravitational influences of the mooon. The moon and the earth core are said to go around the common earth-moon barycenter every month. The earth axis and the monthly earth wobble both being executed by the same earth possess, has as a necessity, a natural coordination, without doubt.

3. Here we have to have a different definition of the sidereal coordinate.The sidereal cordinates is or should be just the mean position of the lunar fluctuation of one month due to adhimas ineah age. This midpoint of monthly motion of the full moon over the stars is also well depicted by the nomenclature system of the lunar months and the related nakshyatras. The full moon of Falgun fluctuates over the two nakshyatras of purva falguni and uttara falguni nakshyatras. Thus Meen sankranti is 180 degrees to the boundary beween these two nakshytras aproximately. Mesh sankranti is 180 degrees to the mid point of chitra nakshyatras, Chaitra full moon flucutating between two padas each of Hasta and Swati with Chitra nakshtyras at its midddle.. Thus we can define the mesh sankranti as the mid point of the Chaitra purnima or the equinoctical purnima fluctuation zone.

Here we are giving more importance to the lunar month rather than the solar sankrantis. The reason is lunar months are natural months but the sankrantis like mesh sankranti are arbitrary 30 degres demarcation made by Man. If we understand this fact then we should not have the problem of shifting the zero point of ayansmha as the sankrantis whenever we shift the full moon zones and keeping the zero point as the mean postion of the fluctuation zone of he full moon.

Of coure, in the above analysis we are taking for granted that the stars by themselves have no effect upon us ( for our precidictive purpose) except as fixed incdicators or reference points in space for teh sun adn the moon..

I guess, I have given a different out look than genearally accepted by the astrologers. they think the strs are primary effectors which is not acutally true. these stars are efeatgors only as the fixed references of the effects of the sun and the moon. Plese ask where i ahvenotbeen clear. Thank you,

Hari malla

--- On Tue, 4/10/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@...> wrote:

From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@...>
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
To: "Hari Malla" <harimalla@...>
Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 2:45 PM

Dear Mr. Hari Malla,

He may use the ayanamsha of his choice, i.e. Yukteshwar. The Yukteshwar ayanamsha on 1^st Jan 1900 is 21° 04' 56".

If he wants the Coordinated longitudes of Sun, Moon and Stars for the purpose of calendar reform he can use the following formula:
Coordinated longitude = (Tropical longitude – Yukteshwar Ayanamsha) + 30°

If he calculates sidereal longitudes directly he can use the following formula:
Coordinated longitude = Sidereal longitude + 30°

Since Coordinated calendar reform is interested only in festivals, there is no need of defining a coordinated ayanamsha. Apart from sun, moon and stars I do not think coordinated system is interested in other five planets.

I went through the files section again in Parvasudhar group, but could not find much weight given to Ayanamsha. Exact ayanamsha is not necessary in Moon based coordinated calendar since shift of zodiac is done every 2160 years and there is a wide fluctuation zone to the Moon. In that sense Coordinated calendar seems to be simpler and superior to sidereal calendar.

My understanding is that Coordinated system is not for predictive astrology; it has been proposed to correct timing of religious festivals. This differs vastly from the other two systems proposed, i.e. Tropical and Sidereal calendar. It looks like to me that the latter two systems are mainly interested in maintaining astrology rather than religion. I make this conclusion based on what you have said about astrology from the religious point of view. There is no need to sacrifice religion to the stars by maintain sidereal zodiac in festival calendar. But sidereal zodiac still has its place in predictive astrology, which I also follow.

I may be wrong. Please give your comments so that I could understand coordinated system better. No need to take this as a conclusion but rather the beginning of a discussion.
With regards Harsha Indrasena

On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 8:43 AM, Hari Malla <harimalla@...> wrote:

Dear Harsha indrasenji,

Thank you indeed for working out the formula for the coordinated, tropical and sidereal coordinates.

Kindly also give the value of your coordinated Dularaka ayanamsha to Rohiniji of 01-01-1900, as he desires! Thank you for the cooperation.

Hari Malla.
--- On Tue, 4/10/12, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@...> wrote:

From: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@...>
Subject: Fw: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
To: JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 2:23 AM

Hari_ji,

I am still waiting for the ayanamsha value of 01-01-1900!

Recent History seems to be repeating itself... ;-)

Once again...!

Regards,

RR_,

--- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, "hari" <harimalla@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Raj Raoji and Rohiniji,
> If it interests you to use coordinated longitude, Harsh Indrasenji has
> supplied the formula for the reepctive coordinates. I feel he is quick in mathemtics. No?
> regards,
> Hari Malla
>
>
>
> --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Hari Malla <harimalla@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Mon, 4/9/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@>
> > Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
> > To: "Hari Malla" <harimalla@>
> > Date: Monday, April 9, 2012, 5:23 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Mr. Hari Malla,
> > Â
> > Thank you.
> > Â
> > <I am happy to hear that the referring to the coordinated Dularaka ayanamsha VE is at 5Â°23'37" (coordinated) Aries. I wonder what will be the prediction on this basis of ayanamsha, other things remaining the same.>
> > Â
> > C- Coordinated longitude
> > S- Sidereal longitude
> > T- Tropical longitude
> > Ay â€" Ayanamsha (You may use whatever ayanamsha of your choice)
> > Â
> > C = S + 30Â°
> > S = T â€" Ay
> > Therefore
> > C = (T â€" Ay) + 30Â°
> > Â
> > There will be little effect on predictions based on transits, directions and inter-planetary aspects that are used in Western astrology.
> > Â
> > Sidereal astrologers can convert coordinated longitudes to Sidereal longitudes simply by subtracting one sign from coordinated longitudes (S = C - 30Â°) and use accordingly.
> > Â
> > 
> > Â
> > Whatever it is astrology is not the path to Nirvana. I think the teaching is similar in Hinduism. Therefore it is better not believe in astrology.
> > Â With regards Harsha Indrasena
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 7:36 PM, Hari Malla <harimalla@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Harsha Indrasenji,
> > Thank you indeed for your carefully thought out reply.
> > 1.Transferring the geocentric sidereal parameter to the hlocenteric one, we add the speed of the sun to the speed of the nakshyatras. This I feel is Yoga and is the ultimate goal of practising astroloogy is to achieve this too, in the mind. I have read in Bhratiya Jyotish that Parashar tooÂ has expressd this opinion that the astrologers shoulod try to go to Brahmahlok in the end. In SS, we read that at the end after educating Maya danava on astronomy, Suryamsha Purush ultimately goes to the orb of the sun, which in my view means the transfer of the geocentric center to the heliocentric one..
> > 2. MayÂ I please know the scientific explanation attributed to the proper motion of the stars as you have mentioned.. Is it the rotation of the galaxy?
> > Â
> > 3 Thank you for acceptig my defintion of Kalpa. This definiton is concluded from the mention in the Bhagvatam of Dhruva (pole point)Â having two sons-Â VatsarÂ ( the year, orbit of the earth) and Kalpa (the great year, precession of the equinoxes).
> > Â
> > 4. I am happy to hear that the referring to the coordinated Dularaka ayanamsha VE is at 5Â°23'37" (coordinated) Aries.Â I wonder what will be the predicton on this basis of ayanamsha, other things remaining the same.
> > Although I do not believe prediction can predict 100 percent, butÂ I do not rule out the possiblity of prediction success of about 60 percent. I feel the other five planets apart from the sun, the moon and Rahu ketu are misrepresented.
> > Thank you again, for your supportÂ as well asÂ educating me in certain aspects of astronomy.Â .
> > Hari Malla
> >
> > Â
> > Â
> > --- On Thu, 4/5/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@>
> > Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
> > To: "Hari Malla" <harimalla@>
> > Date: Thursday, April 5, 2012, 7:18 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Mr. Hari Malla,
> > Â
> > 1) 
> > Â
> > Zodiac is situated round the ecliptic, extending 8-9Â° north or south of the ecliptic, in the celestial sphere. This means zodiac is situated in infinity. Therefore the distance between the Sun and the Earth is negligible when compared with the distance to the Zodiac.
> > Â
> > Therefore we can use the same zodiac in both heliocentric and geocentric versions. In heliocentric version, the zodiac is centered at Sun. In geocentric version, the zodiac is centered at Earth. But both versions refer to one and the same zodiac. Therefore what you say is correct.
> > Â
> > 2) 
> > Â
> > No.
> > Â
> > Days, months, years and several billion years in my mail refer to changing signs of heavenly bodies (both planets and stars).
> > Â
> > We cannot ignore the proper motion of planets in one Kalpa for the stars that are closer to us.
> > Â
> > Proper motion was suspected by early astronomers (according to Macrobius, AD 400) but proof was provided in 1718 by Edmund Halley, who noticed that Sirius, Arcturus and Aldebaran were over half a degree away from the positions charted by the ancient Greek astronomer Hipparchus roughly 1850 years earlier.[23]
> > Â
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_motion
> > Â
> > Proper motion of stars is important when one defines the zodiac. Therefore if we always fix Shaula at 0deg Sag or Aldebaren at 15deg Taurus, even the sidereal zodiac will keep moving over years.
> > Â
> > 3) <By the way do you agree with the 25,800 years figure for one Kalpa or cycle of precession?>
> > Â
> > That depends on how we define Kalpa. This is your definition and it is acceptable to me.
> > Â
> > 4) I would also request you to kindly send your present value of Dulakara ayanamsha.
> > Â
> > 24Â°36'23"
> > Â
> > If we shift the zero point of ayanamsha by 30 degrees for the sake of coordination, what will be the new reformed value of Dulakara ayanamsha?
> > Â
> > VE is at 5Â°23'37" (coordinated) Aries.
> > Â
> > Thank you.
> > Harsha Indrasena
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 8:06 AM, Hari Malla <harimalla@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Harsha Indrasenji,
> >
> > Thank you for your reply. I am impressed by yourÂ thorough knowledge of astronomy.
> > I liked your following expresion too..
> >
> > <Sidereal zodiac is fixed. Its background is empty. It is just 12 equal parts in sky. It is not composed of stars. Planets move rapidly over days, monthsÂ and years, and stars move very very slowly over millions and billions of years across it.>
> > IÂ request you to confirm that siereal zodiacs though composed of 12 equal parts in emptyÂ space is centered at the sun. I would like to add, 'when we consider the sun at the center of the circle of zodiac stars, it is the highest experience man can have. He bcomes a Buddha! This isÂ what SS says. This is what our panchangas says, when we add the speed of nakshytras( meaning moon)Â to the speed of the sun( meaning the earth inits orbit), then we get Yoga. This Yoga is Buddhahood the reltionship of the sun to the stars, in its pratically static postion.
> > I say 'practically' because, if negligibly moving in one hundered life times or generationÂ Â for we living creatures,Â is surely practicaly fixed. One hundered lifetime is say about 10,000 years. And a peiod ofÂ 10,000 yearsÂ inhistory is already prehistoric by human standards and its civilisation. Stars moving over millions and billions of years is not connected with our eye vision and our civilisatio, since we live only for 100 years andÂ history of our civilisationÂ is not more thanÂ 5,000 to 10 000 years. Our human experience of staticÂ natureÂ is quite limited and also eternity. Our life and death is surely trancscended in one life time by a Budha. and if not in one lifetime then surely in a hundered lifetimes by other humans. So much for human philosophy and end of rebirths of one person.
> > Now coming to our coordinative system, we shift one rashi sankranti of 30 degrees, for coordinating the sidereal and the tropical zodiacs about every 2,150 years. This is one manawantar of 12 shifts in one Kalpa of 25,800 years, in my view. I am sure you wil agree that the shift of stars in one Kalpa of 25,800 years is quite negligible. By the way do you agree with the 25,800 years figure for one Kalpa or cycle of precession?
> > .I would also rquest you to kinldy send your present value of Dularka ayanamsha. If we shift the zero point of aynamsha by 30 degrees for the sake of coordination, what will be the new reformed value of Dularka ayanmsha?
> > Â
> > Thank you for our cooperation?
> > Â
> > Hari Malla
> >
> > Â
> > Â
> > Â
> > Â
> > --- On Tue, 4/3/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@>
> > Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
> > To: JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 3:20 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Â
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Mr. Hari Malla,
> > Â
> > I very well agree with your philosophical views.
> > Â
> > <Please note that galactic center is in no way dealt with, in our scriptures and it is meaningless to talk about it in the ancient context. This is complete misconeption to jump to conclusions and a sheer waste of time.>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sidereal Galactic center has been defined by approximating known sidereal zodiac with the event that occurred in July 1998. Without knowing approximate location of sidereal zodiac one cannot give longitudes to this point. I consider this as a rough approximation rather than the eternal truth.
> > Â
> >
> >
> > <This modern concept of science has zero effect in our practical lives.>
> >
> >
> > Modern astronomy will never ever be able to find out the beginning of sidereal Aries. We must try to find out true sidereal zodiac by scrutinizing ancient wisdom. That is why astrology is a divine science.
> > Â
> >
> >
> > <Thus my request to drop this associaton with muladhara chakra which is misleading. It is as misleading as to say that one manwantar is equal to 40 years.>
> >
> >
> > It is quite true that Mula or Shaula star is closer to a zero than Spica or Chitra star. But Shaula is not a good reference point because this star is located far beyond the ecliptic. Â None of the planets touches this star during their course. Therefore Chitra is a better reference point than Mula star.
> > Â
> >
> >
> > Other thing is that we cannot fix the longitudes of stars. Stars do move and change positions over time. We must fit the stars into nakshatras and rashis, in the same way that we do with planets, rather than fitting the nakshatras and rashis to stars.
> > Â
> >
> >
> > Sidereal zodiac is fixed. Its background is empty. It is just 12 equal parts in sky. It is not composed of stars. Planets move rapidly over days, monthsÂ and years, and stars move very very slowly over millions and billions of years across it.
> > Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
> >
> >
> > With regards Harsha Indrasena
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 9:35 AM, hari <harimalla@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Â
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear all,
> > A friendly tip here. Please note that galactic center is in no way dealt with, in our scriptures and it is meaningless to talk about it in the ancient context. This is complete misconeption to jump to conclusions and a sheer waste of time.
> > This modern concept of science has zero effect in our practical lives.
> > Thus my request to drop this associaton with muladhara chakra which is misleading. It is as misleading as to say that one manwantar is equal to 40 years.
> > Also 'muladhar chakra' in my view is related to the center of the earth or earth core.
> > thank you.
> > Hari Malla
> >
> >
> > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, "sreesog" <sreesog@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Narasimha ji,
> > > I have a question/dobt. What would be the longitude of Galaxy Center
> > > when Mula star is at 0Sg0? In this case will Galaxy Center be at the
> > > middle of Mula Nakshatra or somewhere else?
> > > Also can you please include the relative longitudes of all important
> > > stars (Yoga taras) in JHora to help such researches? That could be much
> > > helpful - not only in such studies but also asserting the Vedic and
> > > Puranic astronomic statements, in some cases.
> > > Love and regards,
> > > Sreenadh
> > >
> >
> >
> > > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, "sreesog" <sreesog@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Narasimha ji, Sunil ji and All,
> > > > //> Please convey my regards to your learned friend. His words are
> > > > > meaningful.//
> > > > Yes, and definitely from those words itself it is well evidant that
> > > > those words are NOT of Chandrahari ji.
> > > > //> Galactic Center at 240 deg will make ayanamsa deviate many degrees
> > > > from
> > > > > Lahiri. BTW, this option is already supported in JHora 7.51!//
> > > > Yes, True.
> > > > //> Apart from Galactic center at 0Sg0, JHora 7.51 also includes a
> > > fixed
> > > > > star based implementation of Chandra Hari ayanamsa, where Lambda
> > > > Scorpii
> > > > > star (Shaula) is always placed at 0Sg0. Please note that Lambda
> > > > Scorpii
> > > > > star used by Chandra Hari is several degrees away from the Galactic
> > > > > Center!//
> > > > Yes, True.
> > > > //> Philosophically speaking, I too am not really convinced that 180
> > > deg
> > > > > point must be the anchor for defining ayanamsa.//
> > > > Good realization!
> > > > //> (1) Focus on Prajapati, the Creator. For example, Aldebaran (Alpha
> > > > > Tauri) can be placed at the center of Taurus in Rohini (the star
> > > owned
> > > > > by Prajapati). JHora already offers this option. The other option
> > > not
> > > > > supported by JHora yet is to place Aldebaran at the center of Rohini
> > > > > itself.
> > > > > (2) Apart from Prajapati's star, it would make sense for the
> > > > *Mooladhara
> > > > > chakra* of Kaala Purusha to be the anchor.//
> > > > I appreciate this approach. Possibly Rohini (Aldebaran) star as
> > > the
> > > > star of Brahma and Rohini Nakshatra as the Birth star of Brahma points
> > > > to the position of Aldebaran at the middle of Rohini Nakshatra itself
> > > > (and not to Aldebaran at the middle of Taurus). I have a question -
> > > Is
> > > > it not giving importance to the Nakshatra and Star of Creation/Brahma
> > > > and placing it at the middle of Rohini Nakshatra, almost exactly same
> > > as
> > > > Chandrahari's Ayanamsa? (Even though the focus of opinion and
> > > arguments
> > > > expressed may differ, the Ayanamsa value will remains almost the same
> > > in
> > > > both these cases I think. Please clarify)
> > > > //> Just because the Moola star is named "Moola", some people
> > > associate
> > > > it
> > > > > with Mooladhara chakra. That is questionable. //
> > > > True. The Vedic name for Mula is "Mula Barhis" which rather means
> > > > "the one which spins and expands, or the root of everything (present
> > > in
> > > > the universe?)". Or in other words possibly Mula Nakshatra got its
> > > name
> > > > more because of its association with Galactic Center and not because
> > > of
> > > > its association with Mula star. Even when the position of Mula star
> > > at
> > > > 0Sg0 becomes questionable the connection of Mula Nakshatra with
> > > Galactic
> > > > Center cannot be questioned. The name Mula is more connected with
> > > with
> > > > Galactic Center (of Milky way galaxy) and not to the Muladhara Chakra
> > > > concept etc which are possibly of later day origin.
> > > > Another point is that, even though philosophical perspective, and
> > > also
> > > > the available Mesopotamian horoscopes supports a Galectic Center
> > > > Ayanamsa; the results predicated by Indian astrology classics match
> > > with
> > > > the given horoscope, only when the foundations proposed by Indian
> > > > siddhantic texts and Ayanamsa based on the same are followed. (For me
> > > > Surya Siddhantic Chandrahari Ayanamsa works well in this regard; even
> > > > though I don't force the argument that others should follow the same.
> > > > When it comes to prediction, everyone should follow what works for
> > > them
> > > > best - because astrology is a practical branch of knowledge). From a
> > > > philosophical point of view I appreciate Galaxy Centric Ayanamsa but
> > > it
> > > > do not work for me while dealing with Indian astrology (possibly
> > > because
> > > > through centuries the results are modified and made in tune with Surya
> > > > Siddhantic Ayanamsa etc by the indian practitioners of astrology), but
> > > > the Indian Ayanamsas (whether it be Chandrahari, True Chitrapaksha or
> > > > whatever nearby) works better for Indian astrology. If I am to read
> > > the
> > > > chart using Mesopotamian astrology principles and method, I would
> > > prefer
> > > > to use Galaxy Centric Ayanamsa, but not while dealing with Indian
> > > > astrology.
> > > > Love and regards,
> > > > Sreenadh
> > > >
> > > > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Namaste Sunil ji,
> > > > >
> > > > > Please convey my regards to your learned friend. His words are
> > > > > meaningful.
> > > > >
> > > > > Galactic Center at 240 deg will make ayanamsa deviate many degrees
> > > > from
> > > > > Lahiri. BTW, this option is already supported in JHora 7.51!
> > > > >
> > > > > Apart from Galactic center at 0Sg0, JHora 7.51 also includes a fixed
> > > > > star based implementation of Chandra Hari ayanamsa, where Lambda
> > > > Scorpii
> > > > > star (Shaula) is always placed at 0Sg0. Please note that Lambda
> > > > Scorpii
> > > > > star used by Chandra Hari is several degrees away from the Galactic
> > > > > Center!
> > > > >
> > > > > Your friend's suggestion of the intersection of galactic equator and
> > > > > ecliptic is interesting and may be worth investigating.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > Philosophically speaking, I too am not really convinced that 180 deg
> > > > > point must be the anchor for defining ayanamsa.
> > > > >
> > > > > I can think of two logical possibilities:
> > > > >
> > > > > (1) Focus on Prajapati, the Creator. For example, Aldebaran (Alpha
> > > > > Tauri) can be placed at the center of Taurus in Rohini (the star
> > > owned
> > > > > by Prajapati). JHora already offers this option. The other option
> > > not
> > > > > supported by JHora yet is to place Aldebaran at the center of Rohini
> > > > > itself.
> > > > > (2) Apart from Prajapati's star, it would make sense for the
> > > > *Mooladhara
> > > > > chakra* of Kaala Purusha to be the anchor.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > Just because the Moola star is named "Moola", some people associate
> > > it
> > > > > with Mooladhara chakra. That is questionable. If stars are named
> > > based
> > > > > on chakras they represent, show me stars named based on other six
> > > > > chakras (svAdhiShThAna etc)!
> > > > >
> > > > > Moola simply means root and can be the root of anything. For
> > > example,
> > > > > "bAhu-mUla" (root of arm) means armpit. As Sg shows thighs of Kaala
> > > > > Purusha, Moola star (ruled by Nirriti!) at its beginning could show
> > > > the
> > > > > root of thighs, i.e. groins. That is NOT the location of Mooladhara
> > > > > chakra.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > Mooladhara chakra is supposed to be located a little above anus and
> > > a
> > > > > little below the reproductive organ, both shown by Scorpio. After
> > > all,
> > > > > when Parasara defined zodiacal signs, he said Vi, Li, Sc and Sg are
> > > > the
> > > > > hips (kaTi), lower belly/abdomen (basti), privities (guhya) and
> > > thighs
> > > > > (Uru) of Kaala Purusha (respectively). Thus, Mooladhara chakra must
> > > be
> > > > > *well within* Scorpio, perhaps near the middle! Placing at at 0Sg0
> > > > makes
> > > > > no sense.
> > > > >
> > > > > Antares (Alpha Scorpii) is one of the brightest stars in that region
> > > > and
> > > > > one of the very few stars to lie within 5 deg from the ecliptic
> > > plane.
> > > > >
> > > > > One option is to place Antares in the middle of Scorpio (i.e.
> > > 15Sc0).
> > > > > The other (and better) option is to place it at the beginning of
> > > > > Jyeshtha star (i.e. 16Sc40). Please note that Jyeshtha means "the
> > > > > first/main/chief one".
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, Jyeshtha star is ruled by Indra and the deity of Mooladhara
> > > > chakra
> > > > > as per Tantras is also four-armed Indra on a white elephant!! The
> > > > beeja
> > > > > of Indra is laM (laM indrAya namaH) and laM is also the beeja of
> > > > > Mooladhara chakra!
> > > > >
> > > > > Apart from Indra, some texts also associate Ganapati with Mooladhara
> > > > > chakra and note that Ganapati is mentioned in RigVeda as
> > > jyeShTha-rAja
> > > > > (king of Jyeshtha)! Bottomline is that Mooladhara chakra controls
> > > > earth
> > > > > element or solid state of existence and offers stability and
> > > > > groundedness to one's awareness. Ganapati symbolizes that and so
> > > does
> > > > > Indra (indriyas or senses!) riding an elephant (solid/grounded
> > > > state!).
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > I am just thinking loud here, as far as "Jyeshthapaksha" ayanamsa
> > > > based
> > > > > on Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara chakra in Jyeshtha star is concerned.
> > > > >
> > > > > In any case, I am not at all convinced that 0Sg0 shows Mooladhara
> > > > chakra
> > > > > and hence should anchor the zodiac. If one carefully studies rasis
> > > of
> > > > > zodiac, body parts of Kaala Purusha shown by them and the location
> > > of
> > > > > chakras as per Tantras, one will conclude that Mooladhara chakra
> > > must
> > > > > lie *well within* Scorpio and close to its center.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just my 2 cents - take it or leave it!
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Narasimha
> > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,
> > > > > "Do It Yourself" ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:
> > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
> > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org
> > > > > Spirituality: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vedic-wisdom
> > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JyotishWritings
> > > > > Twitter ID: @homam108
> > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> >
> >
> > > > > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Sunil Bhattacharjya
> > > > > sunil_bhattacharjya@ wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Namaste Narasimhaji,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You wrote:
> > > > > > Quote
> > > > > >> not name it "Narasimha ayanamsa". I named it "Jagannatha
> > > ayanamsa".
> > > > > >> It > is available in JHora.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> In standard Lahiri ayanamsa, Chitra (spica) star *fluctuates*
> > > > around
> > > > > >> 180 > deg. In Jagannatha ayanamsa, Chitra is always *fixed* at
> > > > > >> exactly 180 > deg.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Secondly, the 2-dimensional plane onto which heavenly bodies are
> > > >
> > > > > >> projected is a *fluctuating* plane, in Lahiri ayanamsa (and most
> > > > > >> other > ayanamsas). Suppose we make a natal chart in April 1970
> > > and
> > > > a
> > > > > >> transit > chart in October 2011 and correlate planetary
> > > positions.
> > > > > >> The planes on > which planets are projected are totally different
> > > > on
> > > > > >> the two dates! Yet, > we compare the positions!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> In Jagannatha ayanamsa, this plane is fixed and does not change
> > > > from
> > > > > >> one > day to another. Instead of using the fluctuating Sun-earth
> > > > > >> rotation > plane, Jagannatha ayanamsa uses the *mean* Sun-earth
> > > > > >> rotation plane. So > it is fixed and does not fluctuate.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Thus, Jagannatha ayanamsa is just Lahiri ayanamsa with a truly
> > > > fixed
> > > > > >> > zero point and a fixed plane. It is very close to Lahiri
> > > > ayanamsa.
> > > > > > Unquote
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you for your reply. I have a liking for astrology but it may
> > > > not
> > > > > > be the very orthodox style of astrology. I am also not an
> > > unbeliever
> > > > > > in astrology like Kaulji has become with a vengeance. That is why
> > > > the
> > > > > > ayanamsha controversy did not not bug me as much as it has done to
> > > > > > Kaulji.BTW has Kaulji commented on the "Jagannatha ayanamsa"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As regards the "Jagannatha ayanamsa" I was asking a knowledgeable
> > > > > > friend about your efforts on correcting the Lahiri ayanamsha. He
> > > has
> > > > > > the following to say:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Quote
> > > > > > If Citra has to be the anchor of the sidereal zodiac, then
> > > Narasimha
> > > > > > Rao's method is no doubt an important correction to the Lahiri
> > > > > > ayanamsha. However, from a philosophical point of view, I do not
> > > see
> > > > > > why Citra should play such an important part in astrology as to
> > > > define
> > > > > > the beginning of the rashichakra. E.g., why not take the Galactic
> > > > > > Centre at the beginning of Mulanakshatra? Kindly think of the
> > > > meaning
> > > > > > of mula! That would make more sense, would it not? Or maybe even
> > > > > > better: the intersection point of the Galactic equator with the
> > > > > > ecliptic could be put at the beginning of Mula? Or if you put that
> > > > > > intersection point into the middle of Mulanakshatra, it would even
> > > > be
> > > > > > close to Lahiri-Ayanamsha.
> > > > > > Unquote
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Will you like comment on it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Sunil KB
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > From: Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@
> > > > > > To: JyotishWritings@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > > > JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 3:25 PM
> > > > > > Subject: [JyotishGroup] Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta
> > > > vs
> > > > > > SSS
> > > > > > Namaste Ranjan,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for the nice words. The thing with intuition is that it
> > > > cannot
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > transmitted. One needs to work hard to develop it and often some
> > > > > > moral/spiritual fabric is needed in one's character. Logical
> > > > knowledge
> > > > > > on the other hand can be transmitted and preserved.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sadly, people have corrupted the "logical knowledge" portion of
> > > > > > Jyotish
> > > > > > teachings of rishis and making up for it with intuition for the
> > > last
> > > > > > several centuries.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But, with the the age of intelligent machines dawning on humanity
> > > > and
> > > > > > moral/spiritual fabric of humanity seeing a fast deterioration,
> > > > > > retrieving SOME "logical knowledge" portions of the teachings of
> > > > > > rishis
> > > > > > and preserving for coming generations in an easy form will be very
> > > > > > valuable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Namaste Sunil ji,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are many parameters other than ayanamsa, where people have
> > > > > > different opinions. Resolving the ayanamsa issue is just one piece
> > > > of
> > > > > > the puzzle.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > BTW, I have already come up with an ayanamsa, in 2008-2009. But I
> > > > did
> > > > > > not name it "Narasimha ayanamsa". I named it "Jagannatha
> > > ayanamsa".
> > > > It
> > > > > > is available in JHora.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In standard Lahiri ayanamsa, Chitra (spica) star *fluctuates*
> > > around
> > > > > > 180
> > > > > > deg. In Jagannatha ayanamsa, Chitra is always *fixed* at exactly
> > > 180
> > > > > > deg.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Secondly, the 2-dimensional plane onto which heavenly bodies are
> > > > > > projected is a *fluctuating* plane, in Lahiri ayanamsa (and most
> > > > other
> > > > > > ayanamsas). Suppose we make a natal chart in April 1970 and a
> > > > transit
> > > > > > chart in October 2011 and correlate planetary positions. The
> > > planes
> > > > on
> > > > > > which planets are projected are totally different on the two
> > > dates!
> > > > > > Yet,
> > > > > > we compare the positions!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In Jagannatha ayanamsa, this plane is fixed and does not change
> > > from
> > > > > > one
> > > > > > day to another. Instead of using the fluctuating Sun-earth
> > > rotation
> > > > > > plane, Jagannatha ayanamsa uses the *mean* Sun-earth rotation
> > > plane.
> > > > > > So
> > > > > > it is fixed and does not fluctuate.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thus, Jagannatha ayanamsa is just Lahiri ayanamsa with a truly
> > > fixed
> > > > > > zero point and a fixed plane. It is very close to Lahiri ayanamsa.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > Narasimha
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Sunil Bhattacharjya
> > > > > > <sunil_bhattacharjya@> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Dear Rohini,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Narasimhaji said:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> QUOTE
> > > > > >> I have not yet found what I am looking for, though I experimented
> > > a
> > > > > >> lot.
> > > > > >>> Neither SSS nor drik siddhanta with Lahiri/Jagannatha ayanamsa
> > > > (and
> > > > > >>> Tithi Pravesha etc) come close to that really. Nor does anything
> > > > > >>> else
> > > > > >>> I ever had exposure to.
> > > > > >> UNQUOTE
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Is it a prelude to Mr. Narasimha's possible coming out with a
> > > > > >> "Narasimha Ayanamsha"? Let us hope the Ayanamsha debate will be
> > > put
> > > > > >> to
> > > > > >> rest soon.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Best,
> > > > > >> SKB
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> ________________________________
> > > > > >> From: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@>
> > > > > >> To: JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012
> > > > 10:50
> > > > > >> PM
> > > > > >> Subject: [JyotishGroup] Re: Turning the clock back: Drik
> > > Siddhanta
> > > > vs
> > > > > >> SSS
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Ãƒâ€š Happy Gudi Padwa, Narasimha!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> As the craft progresses and so do we, I am reminded of the words
> > > of
> > > > > >> Charles, my wise friend, which I paraphrase, rather than copy and
> > > > > >> paste!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> The bird of divination has two wings, Logic and Intuition. Cut
> > > off
> > > > > >> either one and the bird flops around, going in circles but never
> > > > > >> managing to leave ground and "take-off"
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> What you have given to Jyotish already, regardless of what
> > > > jyotishis
> > > > > >> and jyotishi-wanna_bees realize or not is simplicity, clarity and
> > > > > >> HONESTY!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Whether they *took* it or not is THEIR PROBLEM!!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Warm regards,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Ranjan
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Namaste friends,
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Happy new lunar year Nandana!
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> If you are not interested in my views on Jyotish techniques and
> > > > > >>> controversies, please skip this mail.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Those who follow my Jyotish writings know that I switched to
> > > using
> > > > > >>> SSS (Sri Surya Siddhanta) for planetary calculations, at the end
> > > > of
> > > > > >>> 2010. I wrote a lot on it for a few months and then went almost
> > > > > >>> silent. The reason was that I was evaluating SSS vs drik
> > > siddhanta
> > > > > >>> with many more examples, after the initial euphoria died down. I
> > > > > >>> revisited many previous predictions and evaluated many more
> > > charts
> > > > > >>> and events and analyzed whether I made the right judgment in
> > > 2010.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Some people may be excited to hear this, some may be
> > > disappointed
> > > > > >>> and
> > > > > >>> some may be confused. But none of that is my intention. This is
> > > > just
> > > > > >>> an impassionate and rational judgment made over time. My
> > > apologies
> > > > > >>> to
> > > > > >>> anyone who is troubled by this in any way.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> * * *
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> It is my judgment that drik siddhanta with Lahiri/Jagannatha
> > > > > >>> ayanamsa
> > > > > >>> allowed me to make the most successful predictions, especially
> > > > using
> > > > > >>> the technique of Tithi Pravesha (learnt from, and thanks to, Pt
> > > > > >>> Sanjay Rath). Drik siddhanta with Jagannatha ayanamsa (a slight
> > > > > >>> variation of Lahiri ayanamsa) allowed me to come up with the
> > > most
> > > > > >>> promising objective techniques based on objective correlations
> > > > > >>> between divisional longitudes (e.g. stationary transits, padamsa
> > > > > >>> transits, vimsottari progression & transits, transit
> > > conjunctions
> > > > > >>> etc). Tithi Prav esha and none of those objective longitude
> > > > > >>> correlation techniques seem to work well with SSS and I could
> > > not
> > > > > >>> come up with any other objective methods with SSS. Though there
> > > > were
> > > > > >>> a few things (e.g. divisional Vimsottari dasa) that I was happy
> > > > with
> > > > > >>> when using SSS, they did not measure up in the final analysis,
> > > in
> > > > > >>> terms of consistency, objectivity and reliability with a much
> > > > larger
> > > > > >>> set of examples.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> After careful consideration over a few months, I determined that
> > > > > >>> turning the clock back by 13-14 months and switching back to
> > > drik
> > > > > >>> siddhanta and Jagannatha ayanamsa is the best way forward for me
> > > > to
> > > > > >>> carry on my Jyotish researches. That is what I will be doing in
> > > my
> > > > > >>> public writings, from today onwards!
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I have integrated a few ideas developed during the SSS journey
> > > > (e.g.
> > > > > >>> divisional Vimsottari dasa, correct interpretation of Parasara's
> > > > > >>> verses on aspect evaluation) into my old methodology based on
> > > drik
> > > > > >>> siddhanta and Jagannatha ayanamsa. I will be using them going
> > > > > >>> forward. But my staple will again be Tithi Pravesha. I will also
> > > > be
> > > > > >>> again picking up several interesting objective researches based
> > > on
> > > > > >>> divisional longitudes, which I came up with during 2008-2010
> > > > (please
> > > > > >>> see http://www.vedicastrologer.org/articles for the wrtieups).
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> * * *
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Just to be clear, Jagannatha Hora software will continue to
> > > > support
> > > > > >>> SSS, so that those who are interested in it can use it. Also, I
> > > am
> > > > > >>> thankful to Sri Vinay Jha for enabling me to experiment with SSS
> > > > and
> > > > > >>> to enable users of JHora to experiment with it. But I will not
> > > be
> > > > > >>> using SSS or promoting it anymore.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> * * *
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I have to honestly say one thing here.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> One learned friend once said that astrology is a combination of
> > > > > >>> science and art. He honestly said he started off with a "more
> > > > > >>> science
> > > > > >>> and less art" approach when young and settled with a "less
> > > science
> > > > > >>> and more art" approach in the end. He said everyone has to
> > > strike
> > > > > >>> the
> > > > > >>> right balance for oneself.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Some use tropical zodiac, some use sidereal zodiac, some use a
> > > > > >>> combination. Some use Lahiri ayanamsa, some use Krishnamoorthy
> > > > > >>> ayanamsa, some use some other ayanamsas. Some use rasi, some use
> > > > > >>> rasi-navamsa, some use all divisional charts. Some use
> > > Vimsottari
> > > > > >>> dasa, some use Chara dasa, some use many dasas. There are many
> > > > > >>> variations. People find what works for them and settle with some
> > > > > >>> "less science and more art" approach that suits their mind.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I too struck my balance in the past, but never stopped and kept
> > > > > >>> searching for a method that reduces the role of art (intuition).
> > > I
> > > > > >>> am
> > > > > >>> not looking to just strike a balance personally and pursue
> > > > something
> > > > > >>> for myself. My goal is to unearth some techniques that
> > > *minimize*
> > > > > >>> the
> > > > > >>> role of *intuition*, so that laymen of future generations can
> > > > > >>> benefit
> > > > > >>> from Jyotish, atleast for basic guidance in major life
> > > decisions,
> > > > > >>> without depending on astrologers who are increasingly becoming
> > > > > >>> commercial and unreliable.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I have not yet found what I am looking for, though I
> > > experimented
> > > > a
> > > > > >>> lot. Neither SSS nor drik siddhanta with Lahiri/Jagannatha
> > > > ayanamsa
> > > > > >>> (and Tithi Pravesha etc) come close to that really. Nor does
> > > > > >>> anything
> > > > > >>> else I ever had exposure to. Intuition still has *too
> > > significant*
> > > > a
> > > > > >>> role in all these techniques for them to be really useful to
> > > > laymen.
> > > > > >>> That is why I keep searching for something better. If I make a
> > > > wrong
> > > > > >>> turn, I'll come back when I realize it.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> In the end, it may very well turn out that my whole goal is a
> > > pipe
> > > > > >>> dream. A technique that minimizes the role of intuition and
> > > usable
> > > > > >>> by
> > > > > >>> laymen may not even exist, though some statements by Parasara in
> > > > > >>> BPHS
> > > > > >>> give me hope. Those who follow me overzealously may kindly note
> > > > this
> > > > > >>> possibility. I am perfectly ok with spending my entire life and
> > > > not
> > > > > >>> reaching my goal. If your goal is to strike some personal
> > > balance
> > > > > >>> and
> > > > > >>> becoming a good astrologer, you may be better off sticking to
> > > > > >>> something or the other (instead of following me on each turn and
> > > > > >>> twist) and working on your *intuition* through spiritual
> > > > practices.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Best regards,
> > > > > >>> Narasimha
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (12)

#64405

From: "sreesog" <sreesog@...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:42 am
Subject: Re: Hippocrates (BC 460-BC 380) on the importance to astrology

sreesog

Send Email

--- In ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com, "Sunil" <astro_tellerkerala@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear sreenadh Ji
> Thanks for posting on Hippocratus
> Now i Know why clubbing and partying is bad ,and u miss to copy meena
> rasi part with signs and parts of the body
> let me check the Link ,oh it is missing in the article too ,or was
> greece people were on austerity those days i dont know
> thanks and rgrds sunil nair
>
> --- In ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com, "sreesog" sreesog@
> wrote:
> >
> > Source: http://www.crystalinks.com/hippocrates.html
> > <http://www.crystalinks.com/hippocrates.html>
> > ======================
> >
> > In medicine, clubbing (or digital clubbing) is a deformity of the
> > fingers and fingernails that is associated with a number of diseases,
> > mostly of the heart and lungs. Idiopathic clubbing can also occur.
> > Hippocrates was probably the first to document clubbing as a sign of
> > disease, and the phenomenon is therefore occasionally called
> Hippocratic
> > fingers.
> >
> > Medical astrology is an ancient medical system that associates various
> > parts of the body, diseases, and drugs as under the influence of the
> > Sun, Moon, and planets, along with the twelve astrological signs.
> > Hippocrates, the Greek physician who is regarded as the father of
> > medicine, insisted his students study astrology, saying, "He who does
> > not understand astrology is not a doctor but a fool." Each of the
> > astrological signs (along with the Sun, Moon, and planets) are
> > associated with different parts of the human body. Also, many plants
> are
> > referred to in old herbals as being "under the influence of" some
> > planet. This was used as a codification of the plants properties and
> > used to create mixtures specific to different diseases.The
> associations
> > of the signs with the parts of the body are as follows:
> >
> >
> >
> > * Aries - head, face, brain, eyes
> > * Taurus - throat, neck, thyroid gland, vocal tract
> > * Gemini - arms, lungs, shoulders, hands, nervous sytem
> > * Cancer - chest, breasts, stomach, alimentary canal
> > * Leo - heart, chest, spine, spinal column, upper back
> > * Virgo - digestive system, intestines, spleen, nervous system
> > * Libra - kidneys, skin, lumbar region, buttocks
> > * Scorpio - reproductive system, sexual organs, bowels, excretory
> > system
> > * Sagittarius - hips, thighs, liver, sciatic nerve
> > * Capricorn - knees, joints, skeletal system
> > * Aquarius - ankles, calves, circulatory systemPisces - feet,
> toes,
> > lymphatic system, adipose tissue
> >
> > ======================
> > --- In ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com, "divine_seeker"
> > divine_seeker@ wrote:
> > >
> > > As we all know, each modern doctor takes an Hippocrates oath before
> > starting the professional practice after the academic training.
> > >
> > > It is interesting to note that he considered astrology as a vital
> tool
> > for the best treatment for each individual. His famous quote --- A
> > physician without a knowledge of Astrology has no right to call
> himself
> > a physician.
> > >
> > > He has given important considerations for conducting surgeries etc.
> > >
> > > I wonder when astrology was dropped as a factor for consideration
> from
> > medical professionals. Was it due to the bias of emperors against
> > astrology or astrology with medicine became too complex?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Harsha
> > >
> >
>

Reply | Messages in this Topic (5)

#64407

From: Sreenadh OG <sreesog@...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:25 am
Subject: Skeletons, skulls and bones in Japanese Art – and elsewhere – Part One Skeletons, skulls and bones in Japanese Art and elsewhere – Part Four

sreesog

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Source: http://printsofjapan.wordpress.com/2009/08/04/skeletons-skulls-and-bones-in-japanese-art-and-elsewhere-%E9%AA%B8%E9%AA%A8-%E9%AB%91%E9%AB%8F-%E4%BA%BA%E9%AA%A8/
=======

Skeletons, skulls and bones in Japanese Art – and elsewhere 骸骨, 髑髏, 人骨 – Part One

Filed under: Art,Japanese woodblock prints,Kabuki — vegder @ 10:21 am
Tags: Danjuro, Ingres, Max Klinger, skeletons, skulls

Gaikotsu 骸骨 is skeleton in Japanese, zugaikotsu 頭蓋骨 is skull and jinkotsu 人骨 is for human bones. By itself 骨 means ‘bone’ and is pronounced ‘hone’ in two syllables.

Fatal attraction: There is hardly a kabuki play which is not muddled in one way or another. The problems of understanding and following the themes are compounded by the fact that every major play seems to have numerous versions. In one the main character is a hero in the next he is a villain. Sometimes love remains unrequited and other times it is requited very nicely, thank you. Such is the case of the monk Seigen (清玄) and the woman he burns for, Princess Sakura (桜姫). Let me explain: In one version he is having a homosexual fling with a younger man, they agree to commit suicide together, the younger man leaps to his death on his 17th birthday – while yearning to come back as a woman – and Seigen chickens out at the last moment and doesn’t jump at all. Fast forward seventeen years and Seigen has made quite a name for himself as an abbot and is visited by a gorgeous young woman – you guessed it – and who, not meaning to, sweeps him off his feet and just happens to be the reincarnation of his erstwhile gay lover. Well no good can come of this I can tell you. In some of the stories Sakurahime, the princess, becomes his lover while in other stories she flees and is pursued, flees some more and is pursued some more and so on. All of this – either with her as his lover or not- is more than her devoted servant can stand so he kills Seigen and that should be that. But no, the dead man’s passions are too great and he rises from the grave to haunt the princess.

The image below is emancipated (and tweaked a bit) from a 1783 print by Shunshō. It shows Danjurō V as the ghost – that’s right, the ghost – of Seigen terrorizing Sakurahime. Wearing a skin tight, black suit painted to look like a skeleton he performed against a black background to heighten the effect. Only the crest on his right arm tells us who is in there.

Shunsho_Seigen_DanjuroV_skeleton5b

Lust, betrayal, murders, a skeleton and a ghost: In 1796 Matthew Gregory Lewis (1775-1818) published a scandalous Gothic novel called The Monk: A Romance. It was pretty much banned because it was downright racy and obscene by contemporary standards. Lewis tried to revise it to a more respectable level, an R rating say, but the damage had been done. One part describes a very young girl, Beatrice de las Cisternas, who is forced into a Spanish nunnery by her parents. But when she reached puberty… watch out! “…no sooner did her warm and voluptuous character begin to be developed than she abandoned herself freely to the impulse of her passions, and seized the first opportunity to seize their gratifications.” Yeow! She ran off to Germany to be the mistress of a Bavarian baron. She threw orgiastic feasts which rivalled those of Cleopatra. She slept with the baron’s younger brother who promised to make an honest woman out of her if only she would kill the baron. So she did. Stabbed him through the heart. Ran off to the cave for a rendezvous with his brother expecting to get married only to be murdered by him. He left her body to rot there and by the time she was just little bits of flesh, hair and bones her ghost began to haunt the new baron’s castle dressed in her nun’s habit, carrying the bloody knife. In time she succeeded in frightening the new baron to death, but not before a long period of torment. They called her the Bleeding Nun.

The next baron called in a famous exorcist who went to the cave and quieted the spirit of the Bleeding Nun, but not completely. At that point her bones could not be moved to hallowed ground, but the exorcizer – who is said to have been none other than the infamous Wandering Jew – ordered her to remain quietly at rest as long as he lived, which wasn’t very long. In time Beatrice remains were moved ”…and deposited in the family vault [and] all due ceremonies were performed…”

I mention this because in one case the story is Japanese through and through, frightening crowds in 18th century Japan, while the other, a totally independent tale, was doing the same thing at about the same time for European readers. Both seem to share a common thread: No distinction was made between the moldering flesh, the skeletal remains and the vengeful spirit/ghost. Both involved uncontrollable lust, murders and subsequent hauntings. How uncanny.

Below is an image from the ossuary at Sedlec that typifies the marriage of the temporal and the eternal. This picture was placed in the public domain by Wilson44691 at http://commons.wikimedia.org. The skull is real, the angel isn’t. More about Sedlec and ossuaries later.

SedlecTrumpet_by_Wilson44691_6

I think it was Guy de Maupassant (1850-93: ギ・ド・モーパッサン) who gave his readers a disembodied hand which tormented a man until it killed him. For nights he had dreamt of a hand scurrying over his floors, walls and bed curtains using it fingers as though they were legs. When they found the body of the man it looked as though he had been strangled by a skeleton. At least that is what the examining doctor thought. In the victims mouth were the skeletal remains of a finger – bitten off in the struggle. Later a bony hand was found in the cemetary with a finger missing. Hmmm? Spooky!

Don’t ask…. I’m clueless (but you knew that already):The doctored image below is from a Japanese woodblock triptych by Kochoro dated 1893. I believe it belongs to a category of avant garde kabuki plays which were determined to shock their audiences with all things contemporary. Performers often wore western clothing and hair styles. The three main characters appear to have been live actors. I have removed a lot of lines which represented threads coming from above and attached to each of them making them look like large marionettes. Something tells me the role of the skeletons were indeed played by oversized marionettes. Just look at the differences between the one on the left and the one on the right. I’d like to see an actor do what the one on the left is doing. Now that would be a neat trick.

Marionette_skeletons6

And what is it with those stilts? Maybe it isn’t kabuki after all. The three non-skeletal figures look a lot like circus performers. The lavender hose and the hint of a golden fringed corset (?) worn by the figure on the far left scream circus outfit. Possibly a female acrobat. And what about the fellow in the center? Who dresses like that? His stripes clash, for goodness sake. Thrift shop chic for sure. Surely he’s a carnie. Looks like one to me - even his face is painted and that hat…! And what is with those skeletons?

Clueless, I am absolutely clueless but completely intrigued. Your guess as to what is happening in this picture would be just as good as mine. But who cares? It is a great image either way. At least, I think so.

In case you are having trouble imagining these figures in an unadulterated form here is a detail from the middle panel.

Unadulterated_detail6

War, good God y’all: I was going to save this next image until the end of this post, but what the heck. It is called “The Apotheosis of War” and is one of the most powerful paintings ever created. Painted in 1871 by the Russian Vasily Vereshchagin it is a bleak reminder to anyone comtemplating sending their sons off to fight. The only life visible is the birds looking for carion. Even the trees are leafless. If there is a more poignant indictment of war I don’t know what it is. It reminds me of a line from the poem by Percy Byshe Shelly that describes the ruins of a once great empire: “Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!”

Apotheosis_of_War7c

This image shown above may well be under copyright restriction, but I was unable to tell for sure. I tried to find a contact e-mail address so I could ask permission to use it, but was completely flumoxed. If someone from the Tretyakov Museum sees it and wants me to remove it I will. But… I hope not. It is too great an image and deserves to be seen more.

What is the connection between the Hebrew word shalom and the English word skeleton? Probably nothing, but there is a folk etymology which says there may be. Our word skeleton comes from the Greek word skhellein which translates as ’dried up’ or ‘withered’ body. It is a shortened version of sôma skeletón or ‘dried up body.’ Sclerosis and arteriosclerosis both have the same Greek source, skhleros, which means ‘hard.’ But what does this have to do with the word shalom? According to Ernest Klein the ancient Akkadian word for a whole corpse was shalamtu. From that evolved shalom (and the Arabic salaam) which today means ‘Peace’, but originally meant ‘Wholeness’.

The word ‘bone’ on the other hand: “Somewhat unusually for a basic body-part term, bone, is a strictly Germanic word; it has no relatives in other Indo-European languages.” The German bein and the Swedish ben have the same source. “They both mean ‘leg’ as well as ‘bone,’ suggesting that the original connotiation… may have been ‘long bone.’ ” (Quotes from: Dictionary of Word Origins by John Ayto)

Skoal! To your health!: The word ‘skoal’ is related to the word ‘skull’ because skulls were used as drinking vessels. The earliest root for both words meant to slice or cut and that may be because the skull was cut from the skeleton. It would appear that the word ‘skoal’ came into the English language via a visit to Denmark by the Scottish king, James VI – later James I of England. The original English word for skull was hēafodpanne, literally ‘head-pan.’

What I want to know is just who were the Vikings toasting? Surely not the donor of the drinking vessel. One other note: I am totally incapable – or nearly so – of exploring the etymologies of Japanese words. Perhaps that is a good thing. But, if only I could… One can only dream.

I suppose everything after this will be anticlimactic – so to speak: The Japanese were masters of the grotesque and they were also masters of the erotic. Sometimes they combined the two, but rarely. Erotic Japanese prints have a large audience of admirers some of whom are sophisticates, some who suffer from arrested development and act like teenagers no matter their age and some of whom are just downright creepy. In most cases it is first impressions which count and most viewers don’t give a damn how well printed something is or even who produced it even if we know. Such is the case of the skeleton image shown below. Look closely at it because it is quite clever. Crude and jarring, but still quite clever. Not only is the creature aroused, but his entire skeletal structure is made up of penis-shaped bones. The woman is obviously startled and terrified. Don’t you think? Should she survive the encounter who is ever going to believe her?

I don’t know who the artist is or exactly what he was thinking, but I am not sure that matters. (I have altered the image so it reads better visually, but kept all of the most important elements.)

The truth comes out!

I now know who did the image shown below. It was by Kuniyoshi, but under a pseudonym. It is from a series of twelve genital – both male and female -related prints entitled ‘Ghost Story: Night Procession of 100 Demons’. However, considering the Japanese penchant for punning through the use of homonyms it could also be read as ‘Pussy Stories: 100 Night Ejaculations’. The image itself is entitled ‘karikkotsu‘ or ‘Penis Skeleton’. This information is provided in Timothy Clark’s new catalogue of the Arthur R. Miller collection of Kuniyoshi prints. It illustrates the whole set on p. 258.

Skeleton_with_penis_shaped_bones

“If I had had to learn anatomy I never would have become an artist.” I am not sure I should go down this road, but someone has to I suppose. Look at the image shown above: There are so many things wrong with it on so many levels, but one of them pops up immediately. The penis is not a bone! In 1998 the Nobel Prize for Medicine was given to three researchers who had studied the effect of nitric oxide on living organisms. Nitric oxide is a pollutant which can enter the atmosphere from a car’s exhaust. The Nobel committee described it’s effects as such: “Nitric Oxide, NO, is a short-lived, endogenously produced gas that acts as a signalling molecule in the body. Signal transmission by a gas, produced by one cell, which penetrates membranes and regulates the function of other cells is an entirely new principle for signalling in the human organism.” I can’t tell you how it works, but in the case of the human male the transmission of NO in the blood stream facilitates arousal and hence that led to the discovery of Viagra (バイアグラ). See how smoothly this works: Automobile pollution to blood stream to erections and a cure for one cause of impotence. Psychological issues are another matter altogether. Still none of this gives the skeleton of a male a bone where there was none and never will be. Perhaps the artist knew this intuitively, but was taking ‘poetic’ license. Perhaps he didn’t.

When I entered junior high school and had to take gym classes and group showers afterwards I heard a lot of talk about boners and giving someone the bone. I had led a sheltered life in oh so many ways, was late in developing both physically and psychologically – and who can say that isn’t still the truth – and didn’t really have any idea what my wet, naked classmates were talking about. It was like dirty jokes: I had to laugh just to cover the fact that I didn’t get them. But in time… naturally I did. And still the use of those terms – you know which ones I mean and don’t make me repeat them – I can be a bit of a prude – became clear enough. Who cared how it worked on me, them or the anatomically incorrect - and some would say inappropriate – skeleton shown above. Who cared if there was a bone there or not. And yet… thank goodness for those three researchers and that insightful Nobel committee. Was there ever a better prize? Ask Pfizer stockholders: Was there?

The quote that led off this section is attributed to Ingres (1780-1867: アングル), one of the greatest artists who ever lived. He painted gloriously and like Picasso (ピカソ) was still painting images of voluptuous, languid and oh-so-sexy women when he was an octogenarian. When Ingres was about 35 years old he created one of his many masterpiece, La Grande Odalisque. Some of his critics were brutal. “She has too many vertebrae. Three too many.” In Ingres’ defense others have said he was taking artisic license and was thinking of the 16th century Mannerists and their preternaturally elongated limbs. Even one masterpiece by Pamagianino (パルミジャニーノ) is called ”The Madonna with the long neck”. But the criticism stung – what criticism doesn’t – and perhaps that is what led Ingres to say that if he had ever had to study anatomy he never would have become a painter. Maybe the artist who created the ithyphallic skeleton knew better. Maybe he didn’t. We’ll never know. (Below is Ingres’ La Grande Odalisque. Gorgeous, isn’t it? That is not a real question. I know it is – extra vertebrae or not. Perhaps it is even a bit sexist of me. Women can have as many vertebrae as they want, but men can’t have bones where they don’t belong. That is just plain wrong.)

The_Grande_Odalisque_by_Ingres

The Piss of Death: At the beginning of the 20th cenury the German artist, Max Klinger (1857-1920: マックス・クリンガ), painted an image of the Grim Reaper taking a moment out from his busy schedule to take a leak. This was referred to as Der pinkelnde Tod. Ten years before that Klinger had produced an etching/drypoint of the same subject entitled Tod am See. Both are interesting and both are a bit goofy. In neither one are there any human observers – others than us, of course. Finally a moment alone. Naturally they are as ridiculous as the Japanese print shown above displaying the skeleton with an erection. These images are absurd and counter-intuitive, but not in the way that quantum physics is. We get these. We relate even though these imagaes exist in a world which just can’t be. (Richard Feynman – リチャード.ファインマン, on the other hand, said that no one can understand quantum mechanics. We just have to learn to accept it.) Both pictures of skeletons are silly. Everyone knows that skeletons don’t drink, don’t sweat and don’t urinate. Everyone. But that didn’t stop Klinger. (See the detail from the print below.)

Klinger_Tod_am_See_dtl

Channeling Gahan Wilson – or is it the other way around? What I know about channeling – or care to know, for that matter – you could fit a thousand times over in a nanotube. But looking at their works either Klinger would seem to be channeling Wilson or Wilson him, because they share the same sense of the comic/macabre. One site notes that Wilson’s earliest know drawing – age 6 – is of the Grim Reaper killing a man. Picasso, on the other hand, at that age was drawing copulating donkeys. Maybe he was 7. Then there is always the possiblity of reincarnation – another of my intellectual black holes. Klinger died in 1920 and baby Gahan was born in 1930. I am not suggesting… (K.D. Lang, born. 1961, says she is the reincarnation of Patsy Cline who died in 1963. A neat trick if you can do it, but that’s none of my business either.)

I first saw Wilson’s dark, but witty cartoons in Playboy Magazine. The one I remember best was that of the skeleton of a man sitting in the driver’s seat of a convertible at a stop sign. The sign said ”Stop” so he did – pernmanently. In a similar vein is Max Kinger’s figure lying across the railroad tracks. I would sure love to know how the body got there in the first place and what in the hell happened to that damned train, but your guess would be as good as mine.

Klinger_skeleton_on_tracks_dt;

NO POST IS EVER FINISHED AND CLEARLY THAT IS TRUE HERE. OBVIOUSLY THIS WILL ONLY BE PART ONE. BESIDES, I STRAYED FROM THE MAIN TOPIC DEALING WITH JAPANESE ART. SORRY! I DO THAT A LOT. BE PATIENT I WILL GET BACK TO IT, BUT FOR NOW…

For more information about Japanese prints and culture please visit our other web site at http://www.printsofjapan.com/.

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#64408

From: Sreenadh OG <sreesog@...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:28 am
Subject: Skeletons, skulls and bones in Japanese Art and elsewhere – Part Four

sreesog

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Source: http://printsofjapan.wordpress.com/2012/03/20/skeletons-skulls-and-bones-in-japanese-art-and-elsewhere-part-four/
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Skeletons, skulls and bones in Japanese Art and elsewhere – Part Four

Filed under: Art,Japanese woodblock prints,Kabuki — vegder @ 9:31 am
Tags: Jacques Callot, Kuniyoshi, Osaka prints, Toyokuni I

I never would have imagined how endless this topic would be – or seem to be – when I started posting thoughts about it way back on August 4, 2009. But it is. It just goes on and on and on and my files for what should be added grow and grow and grow. Clearly I will be a skeleton long before the end ever comes. There is irony in that. Of course, there is irony in just about everything these days – even topics which hover just above the morbid. Don’t blame me. I am just the messenger.

Recently some friends of mine took a long vacation in southeastern Asia. They visited Laos, Vietnam, and Cambodia. Lucky them. Since they have returned they have let out in dribs and drabs some of their photos. One of them on the husband’s Facebook page showed skulls from the Killing Fields. It was quite chilling. I called and asked him to send me some larger examples which I could post here. He sent me one his wife had taken which could hardly be ignored. On one level it is pure tragedy while on another it is a work of art. Both are bound together inextricably, but it took the wife’s eye to catch the tragic and ironic in one simple photograph. It represents both pathos and humor – two emotions not easily reconciled. See for yourself. Some of you will not agree with my assessment. That’s okay. It is hard to find humor in something so exceedingly horrific, but here I think she succeeded.

Gentle Clarence’s monologue from Richard III – The other day one of the movies shown on TV was an updated version – updated in setting, not in text – Richard III by Shakespeare. A favorite of mine. I love watching, reading and listening to Shakespeare over and over because every time I hear something new or have a new revelation. This time it was Clarence’s monologue.

Clarence has been accused of treason against the king, his brother, and is consigned to the Tower. There he has a frightening dream in which he and his brother Richard, Duke of Gloucester, and the arch-villain of this tale, are walking together when Richard falls into the sea.

Methought that Gloucester stumbled; and, in falling,
Struck me, that thought to stay him, overboard,
Into the tumbling billows of the main.
Lord, Lord! methought what pain it was to drown!
What dreadful noise of waters in mine ears!
What ugly sights of death within mine eyes!
Methought I saw a thousand fearful wrecks;
Ten thousand men that fishes gnaw’d upon;
Wedges of gold, great anchors, heaps of pearl,
Inestimable stones, unvalued jewels,
All scattered in the bottom of the sea.
Some lay in dead men’s skulls, and in those holes
Where eyes did once inhabit, there were crept
As ’twere in scorn of eyes, reflecting gems,
That woo’d the slimy bottom of the deep
And mock’d the dead bones that lay scatter’d by.

There is more to Clarence’s death than meets the eye. He is asleep when his murderers arrive. He awakens and knows what is about to happen to him. Clarence tries to reason with them, but they are on a mission. In the movie I referred to above the assassins catch him in his bath, slit his throat and drown him. In the play, Act I, Scene IV they catch him in his bed, stab him and then drown him in a large cask of Malmsey, a sweet wine Shakespeare would have been more than familiar with. Right before the heinous act, the first murderer says to Clarence ”Make peace with your God, for you must die, my lord…”

Another aside: In the Twelfth Night by Shakespeare Olivia asks the clown “What’s a drunken man like, fool?” The clown answers:

Like a drowned man, a fool and a mad man: one
draught above heat makes him a fool; the second mads
him, and a third drowns him.

Damien Hirst’s bejeweled skull – Clarence’s comments made me think of the platinum and diamond encrusted skull designed by Hirst and produced by Bentley and Skinner of Bond Street, jewelers to the Queen. This artwork is entitled “For the Love of God”. What else could it be? There are 8,601 pavé-set diamonds, i.e., diamonds mounted so closely together that you cannot see the mountings that they are set into. The skull looks like it is paved with precious stones. Notice the flawless, pink pear-shaped diamond set into the middle of the forehead.

Starting in April 2012 this piece is going on display in the Tate Modern. For how long? I don’t know. I suppose that will depend on the generosity of the consortium that owns it. Also, it can’t be a coincidence that this is Her Majesty’s Diamond Jubilee year, can it?

This image, which I have altered somewhat was posted at Flickr by loungerie. If for any reason, this conflicts with copyright laws I will gladly remove it if notified by the appropriate authorities. Otherwise it will stay here for all to see and enjoy. Let’s hope for the latter.

The crystal skull hoax! or hoax? – I think this issue has been resolved. All of the larger crystal skulls which were claimed to be pre-Columbian are definitely hoaxes. Of course, there are people who will never accept that they aren’t authentic, imbued with supernatural powers. But then again, I once knew a woman, whom I really liked and respected, who swore that Vice President Spiro Agnew was the greatest vice president who ever lived. However, an official Senate.gov site on this man says that President Nixon thought that no one would ever impeach him if it meant elevating Agnew to the presidency. Of course, it wasn’t just my friend who thought Agnew was greatest. Even Frank Sinatra told the V. P. to fight on. However, to avoid jail time Agnew pled nolo contendere and agreed to pay back taxes on unlisted bribes and resigned his office. [Sinatra lent him the money so he could pay the IRS.] My point: Against all evidence to the contrary some percentage of the populous is going to believe what they are going to believe – even about large crystal skulls.

Fake, schmake, I am a sucker for large rock crystal items. I don’t own any, nor do I want to, but I do really-really love looking at them no matter how inauthentic they are. (I love the authentic ones too.) And, as far as I can tell, the British Museum continues to display this head just with the appropriate labeling. The story of this skull and the research on others is quite revealing: 1) Many of the fakes passed through the hands of a late 19th century French antiquities dealer named Eugène Boban who had once lived in Mexico; 2) The only two places on earth where such large rock crystal deposits could be found which could provide a chunk large enough to carve such a head – Brazil and Madagascar – and neither one was a trading partner with the Toltec, Mixtec, Aztec, Maya or others from that region; 3) Modern technological techniques have allowed us to examine closely how these skulls were carved and indicate that a jeweler’s or lapidary wheel was used. William Foshag, a mineralogist working for the Smithsonian realized this in the 1950s; 4) None of the original records of archaeological discoveries in the Mexico and Central America list any large crystal skulls. 5) The iconography of the carving does not line up well with the other skull images from those pre-European-invasion cultures.

Even the small crystal skulls which are thought to be relatively authentic have their issues. These smaller items, which all vertical holes drilled through them from top to bottom, may have been pre-Colombian beads which were re-carved once they arrived in Europe.

There must be a story here – For the gazillionth time, it doesn’t take Rod Stewart to tell us that there is more to this print than meets the eye. The History: According to the accounts there was a Lord Hotta in Shimōsa Province. He was a real cruel bastard and treated the peasants horrendously. In fact, the situation got so bad that the leader of the peasants went to Edo to petition the shogun for relief. He did this knowing that it was a mandatory death sentence for any peasant and his family to even approach the shogun. The Theater: For reasons it would take too long to explain, all names of real life historical places and people were changed for the theater, but the theater goers would generally know what they were talking about. In the print shown below the evil lord is suffering from some kind of malady which causes him to see and be plagued by ghosts. The whitish figure in the center of the print, with outstretched arms and legs, represents the dead peasant leader who was crucified because of his social transgression. The ghosts of other victims of the lord’s cruelty are represented by the snow/skull like heads. And, just to press home the point, Kuniyoshi has drawn an ectoplasmic arm and hand which is caressing the ailing ruler’s cheek. In the lower right of the print is the outline of a ghost which seems to be there holding council with the ‘maddened lord

This information and more was provided by Sarah E. Thompson in her Utagawa Kuniyoshi: The Sixty-nine Stations of the Kisokaidō.

Ainsworth Bequest, Allen Memorial Art Museum, Oberlin College

You want skulls? I’ll give you skulls – The earliest example I have found of an actor as Teranishi Kanshin in print form wearing a robe decorated with skulls is from the early part of the 19th century. It is by Toyokuni I and is in the collection of the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston. A beautiful design.

www..mfa.org

I will never cease to be amazed by the creative genius of Kuniyoshi who designed the print shown below. It dates from ca. 1845-46 and is from a series which marries Genji references to contemporary stage performances. The connections are often tenuous and at times most probably fictional, but who cares? What amazes me the most is the skull and how it appears to be composed of an octopus folded in on itself. Just look at its lower jaw with the teeth. Its the tentacled arm of that creature.

Below is another print by Kuniyoshi from 1852 showing the character Teranishi Kanshin wearing a robe decorated with decrepit skeletons. But note also the title cartouche in red in the upper right. Notice anything odd about its border?

More text to follow soon #3.

A particularly fine touch in the print shown above is the landscape inset in the upper left. Sarah E. Thompson in her book The Sixty-nine Stations of the Kisokaidō points out that this section is printed in the shape of a skull. Even the landscape. See for yourself.

Another example by Kuniaki II (1835-88) of an actor wearing a similar robe playing the same role is in Boston. This print dates from 1862. (See below – the full print on the left and a detail on the right.)

www..mfa.org

A cautionary note: Kanshin is not the only character that wears robes decorated with skulls. Tōken Jūbei does too. The most stellar example is a print by Hokushū (active from ca. 1809-32) from ca. 1822. The second one is by Kunikazu (1849-67) from ca. 1860. Both were produced in Osaka. The one on the left is from the MFA in Boston while the one on the right is from the Walters in Baltimore.

www..mfa.org Walters Art Museum

Skulls as a fashion statement – Sometimes skulls are worn as necklaces.

Or consider the skulls worn by Kali, the Indian god of destruction (and creation). In most literature she is described as wearing a garland of skull, but the images mainly show severed heads. I suppose, technically speaking – why quibble with Kali? – they are skulls but with their mortal coverings still attached. Below of two such examples. The first one is from the Walters Art Museum in Baltimore and is said to date from ca. 1800 and the second is from the British Museum, and unlike anything else shown on this page, is a lithograph from ca. 1895.

Walters Art Museum

What do you wear when you can’t find your tiara? Your crown of skull, of course – Below is an anonymous French ‘satirical’ print of the head of Marat, the Marat of the French Terror, the Marat of the famous bath scene by David, the Marat who was assassinated by a provincial woman, Charlotte Corday, on July 13, 1793. One of the most vilified men of all history is shown here wearing a crown of skulls and nails.

Just to drive this point home, the Marat-point, here is another print after Paul Baudry from the British Museum from the mid to late 19th century. Notice her crazed look. Notice the knife.

Of course, satire was in the air, especially in late 18th century England. Below is James Gillray’s take on the trial of Charlotte Corday. She displays a degree of elegance while her judges are shown as freakish caricatures. The body of Marat is the bloody body of Marat on display at the bottom of the print. Needless to say, she was convicted and guillotined. Sadly we don’t have her skull to add to this gory tale.

Now, before we leave the concept of wearing skulls as a crown you should see what else I found. It is a 19th century Tibetan thang-kha featuring Mahākāla, a god who drinks the blood of his victims from a bowl made from a skull. It is sloshing about, but it is the crown I want you to focus own. Chic, eh?

The skull as netsuke -

www.metmuseum.org

There is one more skeleton netsuke from the collection at the Met worth showing here. It dates from the 19th century.

www.metmuseum.org

If I didn’t know better I would swear that this next piece is a Japanese netsuke, but… However, according to t he Walters this tiny little, 2 5/8″ high, carving is Flemish and from the first half of the 17th century. Otherwise, I would swear…

Walters Art Museum

A 17th century German skull watch case -

You know those ads for botox or wrinkle removers or weight loss products? Well, this next little, and I do mean little, piece would fit the bill for before and after images if it weren’t so gruesome. I ran across it while looking through the on-line collection of the Walters Art Museum in Baltimore. They don’t know its exact date or even its place of origin, but it is made of ivory and is only 2 7/8″ high. Described as a “Pendant with Monk and Death” it seems so familiar, so up to date except in the modern photos of before and after the before is nearly always glum looking while the after has a sparkle in its eye at the least and is smiling and fresh at its most. What I don’t know is how they know it is a monk. The death part I get. That’s obvious. See if you agree.

Walters Art Museum

Two skull related items from the Rijksmuseum – As I was looking for new skull and bone related art works in the Rijksmuseum I ran across two which I thought would make interesting additions to this series of posts. The first is a trepan dating from 1693 to 1702. So, you are probably asking yourself “What the ‘h’ is a trepan?” Well, I’ll tell you. It is what surgeons used to drill holes into the skulls of living people. The Oxford Dictionary tells us that it comes from the Greek terms for ‘to bore’ and ‘hole’.

What I am about to tell you won’t come as any surprise to those of you who keep up on the history of trepanation, but it came to me like a bolt out of the blue: There is actually a book called Trepanation: History, Discovery, Theory from 2003. Amazing, isn’t it? I am going to try to read this book and get back to you later. Sooner if possible.

This is from the book mentioned above, and then some: Paul Broca (1824-80), a French scientist, anthropologist and physician, located the part of the brain where speech originates. This in called ‘Broca’s area’. He was elected President of the Paris Surgical Society in 1865 and Professor of Clinical Surgery in 1868. After mapping out the cerebral topography he “…used his new method to trepan the skull and drain an abscess in patient [sic] whose speech had become impaired after a closed head injury. Even though brain tissue was not removed, some authors regard Broca’s case as the first brain surgery to be based on the theory of cortical localization of function.” Like everyone else at that time, Broca did not believe that there were any examples of trepanning prior to ancient Greece. Then in 1867 “…he was shown an old Peruvian skull with cross-hatched cuts.”

While the skull shown below is Peruvian it is not the one Broca saw, but it is ancient and displays the same basic techniques used to relieve the victims suffering. It was posted at Flickr by Luciana Christante who admits to not knowing its age.

There was an article in 1877 about this Peruvian technique where it was surmised that “a burin, or tool like that used by engravers on wood and metal” had been used and not a drill. When Broca first saw the original example he guessed that the patient could have survived for a week or two at most.

“As for Broca, the skull marked a great moment and a turning point in his illustrious career. One year after he presented the Peruvian skull in Paris, trepanned skulls and fragments dating from the Neolithic Period (c. 3,000 –2,000 BC) began to be found began to be found on French soil by his friend and associate P.-Barthélemy Prunières. Although Prunières… at first misinterpreted his specimens (he thought the openings were made after death to allow the skulls to serve as ceremonial drinking cups), Broca… recognized the trepanned skulls for what they were and worked diligently in the 1870s to understand how trepanation was performed and why. In this context, he published a plethora of papers and notes, and even a book on trepanation, for which he was well recognized by the scientific community…”

The second great skull-related piece in the Rijksmuseum is a reliquary bust of St. Frederick made in Utrecht in 1362. It contains bits of the skull of said saint.

I will write about this saint and reliquaries in general later, but as a note to myself right now I have to remember to look up terms like Sabellianism, Arianism and the Athanasian Creed. Arianism I have looked up before, but like so many other things these days I just can remember exactly what it stands for. The others are relatively new to me – especially Sabellianism. Of course, none of this is important to you right now and you may have wasted a bit of your time just reading this, but… so goes life. Sorry!

I now know more today, April 9. 2012. than I did yesterday. Sabellius, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, flourished in ca. 220 and taught that Father, Son and Holy Ghost are all parts of a single divine being. The same source tells me that Arianism, based on the teachings of Arian (ca. 250 – ca. 336), argued that Christ was not divine, but God is. The Athanasian Creed, of disputed origin, sets forth the principles of the Trinity and Incarnation. Now we can move on – okay?

In a book listing the emblems of each saint it says that the motif used for St. Frederick is two swords because he was martyred by two men who thrust him through. A quick search led me to a tiny print by Jacques Callot (ジャック. カロ: 1592-1635), one of my favorite print makers of all time, showing St. Frederick being struck down by his assassins. I found it at Viquipèdia. So, why was he martyred? The answer may lie in a book published in 1904, Lives and Legends of the English Bishops and Kings, Mediaeval Monks and Other Later Saints: “St. Frederick, who was Bishop of Utrecht from 820 to 838, and is occasionally represented in the robes of his office, with two swords piercing his breast, or in the hands of two assassins who are stabbing him, is said to have brought his terrible doom upon himself by his plain speaking to Queen Judith, the second wife of Louis le Débonnaire, whose plots against her stepsons he had discovered. ”

Judith was Louis the D’s second wife and was his blood relative. Turns out that Frederick railed against their unionon the grounds that it was somewhat incestuous. Louis told Judith that she should either win Frederick over to their side or have him killed. I guess she failed on the first count, but succeeded on the second. This is all so Lion-in-Winterish it’s amazing. Different characters, same sort of intrigues. Or, what about Becket where Henry II of England had him killed in the cathedral? Just ask T.S. Eliot. It’s all the same – basically. And what do you get in the end? I ask you: bones. See, there is a thread here. It always leads to bones and more bones and more…

A note to sticklers and women named Judith: There are other versions of the account of Frederick’s martyrdom and not all of them blame Louis’s wife. Some of them say it was a group of pagans who resented Frederick’s butting into their lives. They didn’t want to be converted so they killed him.

Now, excuse me, I have to go off on another tangent: Louis the Debonair (778-840)? What a great name. But who was he? He was one of the three sons of Charlemagne and he was also known as Louis the Pious. Imagine being known by such a nickname – Debonair, not Pious. I’m a bit envious. [Not really.]

And now a message from my friend Mike -

I just started this new post and there will be much more to follow. What? Your guess is as good as mine right not. So, please be patient and come back often. Thanks.

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From: Sreenadh OG <sreesog@...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:29 am
Subject: Skeletons, skulls and bones in Japanese Art and elsewhere – Part Three

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Source: http://printsofjapan.wordpress.com/2011/02/19/skeletons-skulls-and-bones-in-japanese-art-and-elsewhere-part-three/
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Skeletons, skulls and bones in Japanese Art and elsewhere – Part Three

Filed under: Art,Greek mythology,Japanese woodblock prints — vegder @ 5:12 pm
Tags: Hendrik Goltzius, Hiroshige, Japanese woodblock prints, Kuniyoshi, Lovis Corinth, Yoshitoshi

Let me tell you -there are only two kinds of people in this world! – those who never believe me and those who claim not to, but secretly do.

The people who never believe me are idiots! Those who always pretend not to believe me aren’t idiots, but some of them border on it.* I came to this conclusion yesterday when riding my bike – and the day they killed bin Laden, but that’s not what’s important here. I rode particularly hard and by the end I was totally soaked and dripping sweat and basking in the joy of all of those endorphins. A natural (and legal) high. Some of my clearest thinking happens on exercise days.

*To be fair to everyone – idiots, near idiots and non-idiots alike – I often make statements, believing myself to be right, when I am so, so wrong. Rack it up to human frailty. I do.

So what is it that people don’t believe about me this time or pretend not to? They just aren’t buying it when I tell them that I am not obsessed with skeletons and skulls no matter how much incriminating evidence there is to the contrary. Come on… you know I am not a dissembler!! When I tell you, dear reader, that I only chose ‘skeletons, skulls and bones’ as a topic, and keep placing variant posts about it on the web, it is because it is just another topic like any other topic. It is out there. You’ve got to believe me. It is simple as that. But why am I addressing this now? Because yesterday while as I was pushing myself physically I happened to notice the skull and crossbones warning bell cum compass on my bike and thought “How ironic!” How fitting.

I can remember the day I bought it. My choice was based on how loud the bell was and not its design. The design was just another one of life’s little jokes, a real perk. The skull and cross bones bell says nothing about me. By nature I am a pussycat and not a Hell’s Angel type. In fact, whenever I growl at people they yawn. (They yawn on many other occasions too when they are with me too, but more about that later.) Conclusion: the design couldn’t have been better suited to my wussiness. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Now back to there being only two kinds of people in this world. Well… actually, now that I think about it, there are 3. A lot of people don’t speak English or at least my version of it and they wouldn’t be able to understand me anyway and, therefore, would probably be less judgmental than the first two groups. And what about those people who are deaf? Oooops, a 4th kind. In fact, to be honest, I mean completely honest, there are probably quite a few more categories.

So, believe me if you want to, but I won’t hold my breath. Besides, I am not doing this for your sake, but mine. However, you can join me in the sweetness of the fact that I am writing this close to the 66th anniversary of the announcement of Hitler’s death. Time and space. How gloriously fortuitous.

Note: I will probably move these new comments and the accompanying photo to my ‘About’ page soon, but for now I want it here. Live with it.

Fantasy? I just read The King Must Die by Mary Renault. It tells the story of Theseus and his many adventures. While performing as a bull dancer at the court of Minos on Crete Theseus often travels through the secret passages of the labyrinth in order to have trysts with Ariadne, the king’s daughter and high priestess. “Here were no stores, but now and then the rubbish of the ancient earthquakes, broken pots shaped without the wheel, or old crude tools. And once, where the earth had settled, there was a man’s white skull sticking out of the ground from the eye-sockets upward, before one of the great pillars. He still wore shreds of an old hide helmet. He was the Watcher of the Threshold, the strong warrior they bury living under a sacred place, for his ghost to fight off demons from it. I started, and then saluted him as became his honor. Ariadne had passed that way before, and only drew her skirt aside.” (This part was added on October 19, 2011.)

Memento mori

A fellow I have known for ages e-mailed me yesterday. Every so often he gets in touch, but rarely. He wrote to let me know he was still out there and paying attention to what I have been doing. He mentioned the pages devoted to tattoos on my other web site. For good measure he threw in a couple of pictures of his brand-spanking-new-day-old grandchild in the arms of the proud father. The close up which can be seen above is an incredibly sock-knocking-off photo. What really got me after the cuteness factor wore off fractionally was that the tattoo of a skull and bones made for a remarkably striking contrast with baby. The juxtaposition of a new life with a graphic reminder of the inevitability of everyone’s mortality is amazing. We come into this world as part of a grand cycle. As it says in Ecclesiastes: “…for every activity under heaven its time… a time to be born and a time to die.”

For those of you who aren’t religious just ask the Byrds, Judy Collins and Pete Seeger – Turn! Turn! Turn!

On an even more personal note: This incredible photo arrived at my computer at the same time that hundreds of thousands of Arabs are risking their lives – and some of them are losing them – in order that others will live free. Those people are consciously facing their mortality and all of its consequences. Murders are taking place followed quickly by funerals and more murders and more funerals. I ascribed nothing mystical or cosmic to this: the baby, the skull tattoo and the yearning to be free have all met in time and space, at least, in my head they have. I wish I could explain this better.

Don’t forget: Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas.

Quis Evadet? Who escapes?

Babies and bubbles and skulls, too –

An inscription which accompanies this prints from 1594 says in part: “The fresh silvery flower, fragrant with the breath of spring,/ Withers once its beauty wanes;/ Likewise the life of man, already ebbing in the newborn babe,/ Vanishes like a bubble or fleeting smoke.” Goltzius engraving shown courtesy of the British Museum. © Trustees of the British Museum

The smoke in the background is a reference to Psalm 102:

For my days vanish like smoke;
my bones glow like burning embers

What is with the bubbles? Some dictionaries define ‘bubble’ as something insubstantial, groundless, ephemeral. Economic bubbles foster greed. Dot com bubbles, housing bubbles… oh, what the hell, let’s throw in Ponzi schemes. Avarice is one of the Seven Deadly Sins. Bubbles burst. Like life bubbles always come to an end. Perhaps the picture shown below is the perfect metaphor for an upside down mortgage. It shows a photo – cropped by me – originally taken by Mila Zinkova and posted at commons.wikimedia.org. Look carefully. It appears to reflect a house upright in the top and reversed and upside down in the bottom as though it was underwater. Perfect. But, just for good measure, to drive home the point of ephemerality, I have placed the photo of a beer bubble next to the first one. This one was taken by Markus Leupold-Löwenthal and placed at the same site. The point: All the beers and beer bubbles in the whole world won’t make things better, but its a start.

Man is a bubble – Homo bulla

Erasmus (1549 – 1636) quoted Varro (116 B.C. – 27 B.C.) as saying “Man is but a bubble.” Actually there is more to the original quote: “If a man’s a bubble, an old man is more so.” Erika Langmuir in Imaging Childhood points out that the original bubble being referred to was probably sea foam because modern soap from which bubbles could be blown was a much later invention. She also notes that often the putti are shown blowing bubbles through a straw, a “…dry husk of short-lived grass…” which extends the metaphor of life’s brevity. To support this she cites Isaiah 40:6-8:

All flesh is grass, and all its loveliness is like the flower of the field.
7The grass withers, the flower fades,
When the breath of the LORD blows upon it;
Surely the people are grass.
⁸The grass withers, the flower fades,
But the word of our God stands forever.

Prior to that it appears in Psalm 103:

Man’s days are like the grass;
he blossoms like the flowers of the field;
a wind passes over them, and they cease to be,
and their place knows them no more.

Job 14 tells us that man is born of woman, his life is short and difficult. “He blossoms like a flower and then he withers…” This point is pounded home later by James and Peter, too.

Sadeler engraving after Marten de Vos shown courtesy of the British Museum. © Trustees of the British Museum

There is a mid-sixteenth century medal designed by Nickel Milicz showing a putto, a skull and an hour-glass. The inscription reads: Nihil morte certius hora autem mortis nihil incer or “Nothing is more certain than death, but nothing more uncertain than the hour of it.”

An engraving from ca. 1550 by Hieronymous Cock (ヒエロニムス・コック: ca. 1510 – 1570) possibly after Melchior Lorch. © Trustees of the British Museum

A drawing on vellum attributed to Jacob Hoefnagel from 1598. The vanity inset of the baby with the hour glass and skull is surrounded by dead and living flora and fauna. © Trustees of the British Museum

Madam Bubble is a slut! – William Makepeace Thackeray (ウィリアム・メイクピース・サッカレ: 1811-1863) got the title of his most famous novel, Vanity Fair (虚栄の市), from a place name in John Bunyan’s ( ジョンバニヤン: 1628-1688) Pilgrim’s Progress (天路歴程). Here Bunyan explicitly links the ephemeral and vanity together in the person of Madam Bubble.

While Master Standfast was making his journey he said that he encountered a woman “…in very pleasant attire, but old, who presented herself unto me, and offered me three things, to wit, her body, her purse, and her bed.” Standfast declined, but the woman, Madam Bubble, just smiled and made the offer again. She promised him greatness and happiness. Again he declined. She told him she was the mistress of the world, but Standfast prayed for deliverance – and got it.

Another character in this allegory, Great-heart, described Madam Bubble to a tee: “This woman is a witch, and it is by virtue of her sorceries that this ground is enchanted. Whoever doth lay their head down in her lap, had as good lay it down upon that block over which the axe doth hang; and whoever lay their eyes upon her beauty, are counted the enemies of God.” Later she is described as “…a bold and impudent slut; she will talk with any man…. It was she that set Absolom against his father, and Jeroboam against his master. It was she that persuaded Judas to sell his Lord…. She makes variance betwixt rulers and subjects, betwixt parents and children, betwixt neighbour and neighbour, betwixt a man and his wife, betwixt a man and himself, betwixt the flesh and the spirit.”

Madam Bubble appeals to every man’s vanity and we all know what that will get you.

Putti with skulls -

Horst W. Janson wrote in 1937: “Death in the numerous allegories conceived by the imagination of fifteenth and sixteenth century artists assumes its strangest, if not its most important, form in the putto with the death’s head. Unlike others, it was not founded on the literary or pictorial traditions of earlier periods. Consequently, it retained, throughout its existence, a flexibility that enabled it to be a focal point for all those conflicting notions of death which the Renaissance developed out of the heritage of the late Middle Ages.”

The earliest representation of a putto with a skull, according to Janson, is to be found on a medal designed by Givoanni Boldù in Venice in 1458. In his left hand the putto holds a bundle of flames: “There can be little doubt about the significance of the flame, a well-known symbol of the soul.” From it came many of the images we know today and many variations on the original theme – whatever that was. All the related images shown above rose from this design. Below is a picture of that medal from the collection of the Victoria and Albert Museum.

The evolution of how men would represent death: Janson points out that “… to classic Greece death appeared as Thanatos, a youthful genius, and as a symbol of death the corpse was unknown.” However, in the late Middle Ages the ‘animated corpse’ made its appearance. On the left below is an ancient Greek representation of Thanatos from a piece in the British Museum. To the right of that is an image from an 18th century emblem book showing life and death together.

Lovis Corinth (ロヴィス・コリント : 1858 – 1925), a great German print maker, had a massive stroke in 1911, but continued working even though his hands trembled terribly after that. What he lost in precision he gained in expressiveness. Through the years he had painted and drawn many self-portraits. The drypoint from 1916 entitled Der Künstler und der Tod I brings home his more urgent sense of mortality. Across the top the print is the name Thanatos written in Greek, but here is no ‘youthful genius’ as portrayed by the ancient Greeks. Instead it is a skeleton much closer to the medieval concept of the walking corpse. However, before you get the wrong idea, Corinth had already made use of a skeleton in his art long before his stroke – a concept harking back to the Danse macabre. In 1896 Corinth painted his commanding Selbstporträt mit Skelett as seen below on the right.

The image on the left above is shown courtesy of the British Museum. © Trustees of the British Museum

We all know about Egyptian mummies, but what I didn’t know is that ” On festive occasions, small statues of dried out mummies were placed on the dining tables, reminding the guests of their future and thus inducing them to take full advantage of the present. When the Romans took over this usage, they replaced the mummy with the skeleton when representing man’s corporeal state after death.”

The mask as a substitute symbol for death – Sometimes the putti are accompanied by a mask instead of a skull. Janson, citing Deonna, added “…that the Dionysiac mask could have the same meaning; that the putti playing with masks on many Dionysiac sarcophagi symbolize the Dionysiac paradise of eternal inebriation, whereas the mask stands for death.” Below are two examples from the British Museum. The first one is by Hans Sebald Beham (1500-50) showing two putting holding a shield with a mask surrounded by flames.To the left of that engraving is an etching by Jonas Umbach (ca. 1624-1700). It shows frolicking putti, one wearing a mask and a satyr. (This part was added on December 29, 2011.)

The bones of Adam or nascentes morimur – Ignorance, especially mine, can be a powerful thing. That is why I always tell people never to quote me because I am so often wrong. Take nacentes morimur as an example. If asked before I started this section I would have said that I thought this was probably a Christian reference. My loose translation – and remember, I did miserably in Latin in school – would be “You are born to die” or “We are…” Of course purists and pedants would disagree by degrees, but that is my translation and I will stand by it.

What’s remarkable is that this saying originates not in the bosom of the Church, but rather in something quite the opposite. It comes from Manilius in the 1st century A.D. and was meant to apply to astrology. For example: What’s your sign? Because if you know what their sign is then you know what’s coming for them – especially if you know all of the other related mumbo jumbo like which house and what was rising and falling at that time. Their birth sign inevitably leads to their demise and there ain’t nothing that can be done about that. Manilius wrote:

Fata regum orbem, certa stant omnia lege
Longaque per certos signantur tempora casus.
Nascentes morimur, finisque ab origine pendet.

Fate rules the world, everything is determined by a fixed law,
And long periods of time are marked with their certain events.
At birth, we die, and our end depends on our beginning.

It is what Manilius said right before “Fata regum orbem” which might be more important.I am not sure of the Latin, but it translates as “Set your minds free, mortal men, let your cares go and deliver your lives from all this pointless fuss.” Or, in modern speak: “Sit back and enjoy it. There is not a damn thing you can do about it.”

So, despite the fact that nacentes morimur was penned around the time of the Crucifixion, which was meant to redeem man of his original sin, it was in no way associated with it. However, in time it came to be linked in the minds of certain people to not only that act, but even was carried backwards to certain events which occurred in the Book of Genesis (創世記): Adam (アダム) did not know his own nakedness prior to biting into that damned apple he had no sense of mortality. But with one bite and a few commands later and he did.

In Genesis 2:25 it says: “Now they were both naked, the man and his wife, but they had no feeling of shame.” But the apple changed all that. Genesis 3:7: “Then the eyes of both of them were opened and they discovered that they were naked; so they stitched fig-leaves together and made themselves loincloths.” Then they hid. If things were bad enough already God found them out, placed several curses on them in including banishment from the Garden and topped it off with the fact that Adam “…would return to the ground; for from it you were taken. Dust you are, to dust you shall return.” Mortality! (Genesis 3:19)

There could be no clearer example of what was to come for mankind than what is represented in a 16th century woodcut after Sebald Beham showing Adam taking an apple from Eve (イヴ ), Eve taking an apple from the snake and centered above them all is an oversized skull.

This is the reason why images of Christ are so often accompanied with images of a skull with or without bones, Adam’s bones. The circle is complete. Nascentes morimur! Below is a painting referred to as The Meditation on the Passion by Carpaccio. Seated in the center is the figure of Christ. On the ground to his left are the skull and bones of Adam.

www.metmuseum.org. (Below is a detail of the skull and bones.)

Janson noted that St. Jerome, from the 4th century and one of the founding fathers of the Catholic faith, repeated an older myth – of local Jewish origin – that Adam’s burial site was on Golgotha. Hence, the skull and bones at the foot of the Cross. Later Christian scholars dismissed this concept, but still the bones showed up in later imagery as seen above and below. Besides, the Eastern Church continued to believe that Adam’s tomb was on that mount.

There is an amazing print after Guido Reni (グイド.レーニ: 1575-1642) in the collection of the British Museum. It shows the Christ child asleep on his cross. His head is resting against a large skull. Adam’s? A crown of thorns is leaning against one of the arms of the cross and nearby on the ground are three nails. To top this off and to make sure the image is unmistakable – as if that was possible – there is an hour glass on a ledge behind the sleeping infant. The sands of time. Nacentes morimur!

A drawing from the school or circle of Jean Cousin the Younger (ca. 1525 – ca. 1595), also in the British Museum, shows a descent from the cross. In the lower left are the skull and bones of Adam.

A. E. Housman and Manilius – Housman, British poet and author of A Shropshire Lad, was also the greatest Latinist of his day. His finest achievement in that field was his sef-published translation of Manilius. But Housman wasn’t blind to Manilius’s flaws. He once wrote a colleague: “I adjure you not to waste your time on Manilius. He writes on astronomy and astrology without knowing either.” Housman wrote to an American that he wasn’t sending along a copy of the translations because Manilius “…is so dull that few professed scholars can read it…” and besides he doubted that there was anyone in the United States who could even understand it if he did.

Below is a 1926 charcoal drawing of Housman by Francis Dodd.

A Latin word for specter or ghost is larva. However, Petronius also used it for skeleton. This conforms to Janson’s comment that skeletons became a symbol to the ancient Romans of death in the underworld. These larvae could walk and talk and carry on ordinary activities. The best ancient representation is exemplified by the ‘skeleton cups’ found at Boscoreale near Pompeii. The silver repoussé cup shown below displays famous Greek poets and philosophers, including Menander, Euripides and Sophocles among others, standing beneath a garland of roses. Zeno and Epicurus argue with each other right in front of mating dogs. There is also a Greek inscription which translates as “Enjoy life while you can, for tomorrow is uncertain.”

Skeletons portrayed on drinking vessels was in not way thought to be morbid. In fact, it was a celebration of life. A reminder, like that of a passage in the Satyricon by Petronius: “As we drank and admired each luxury in detail, a slave brought in a silver skeleton, made so that its limbs and spine could be moved and bent in every direction. He put it down once or twice on the table so that the supple joints showed several attitudes, and Trimalchio said appropriately: ‘Alas for us poor mortals, all that poor man is is nothing. So we shall all be, after the world below takes us away. Let us live then while it goes well with us.’ “

Skulls and butterflies – In ancient Rome the butterfly came to be known as “…a common image for the soul.” Frequently it was paired with an image of a skull. This is an interesting juxtaposition for several reasons. One of these is that butterflies were considered the spirits of dead souls in Japan. I don’t know the source of this belief, but if it came into Japan with Buddhism that would make sense because Buddhism came into China from India and the core Indian belief systems are closely linked to those of the ancient Greeks and Romans. This would be one case of cross-cultural borrowing which I could believe in.

Although it is not clearly visible in the images of the Boscoreale cup shown above there is a description from a volume originally published in 1926: “The field is filled by three large skeletons. The one nearest the column holds in its right hand a large purse full of money, and in its left hand a butterfly (typifying the soul), which it presents to the second skeleton.”

The butterfly as the soul and the nature of reality -

Chuang Tzu (Ch. 莊子), the great Taoist thinker of the 4th to 3rd centuries B.C., supposedly wrote:

I do not know whether I was a man dreaming I was a butterfly,
Or, whether I am now a butterfly dreaming I am a man.

On a personal note: I tried googling the term ‘skull’ plus ‘butterfly’ and hitting the image search button. What came up were a ton of ‘interesting’ tattoos. And, I do mean a ton. Try it – if you care or dare and draw your own conclusions. If I have any thoughts about the results it would be that it strikes me as odd that an ancient Roman belief should show up so prominently on the flesh of young (and not so young) people today. Qualifying the search by adding words like ‘ancient’ and ‘Roman’ did nothing to clear out this mess.

On December 29, 2011 I finally found an example worth using. Below is another print from the collection of the British Museum. It is an etching by Joseph Fromiller (1693-1760). The connection is clear when you know that the insect sitting on the skull is said to be a butterfly.

What about the Japanese and bubbles?

I am not sure, but I think one could count the number of bubble-related Japanese woodblock prints on one hand, maybe two. That is probably because the Japanese don’t attach the same symbolism to bubbles as they do (or have) in the West. While I had trouble thinking of prints with bubbles in them I did come up with one prime and humorous example by Kuniyoshi. I modified the overall design so I could emphasize the bubbles themselves. The picture is self-explanatory.

Yoshitoshi scary skull -

What could be more natural?

Toyokuni I image of the priest Ikkyu carrying a skull. Below is a diptych from the British Museum collection of priest Ikkyu of encountering a famous courtesan. The humor and the irony should not be missed here.

Snow skulls and skeletons: the madness of Taira Kiyomori

The middle and left panel of a Hiroshige triptych showing Taira Kiyomori (1118-81) looking at at his snow covered garden at his Fukuhara Palace. These are shown courtesy of the British Museum. © Trustees of the British Museum

Below is a detail of the two left panels of a triptych by Yoshitoshi.

I just started this post and will add the text later, but for now here are several teasers. Especially fine is that picture of the newborn baby at the top, don’t you think? One of my favorite images I have ever posted. Ever!

If you would like to get to our first post on this subject click on the link below:

http://printsofjapan.wordpress.com/2009/08/04/skeletons-skulls-and-bones-in-japanese-art-and-elsewhere-骸骨-髑髏-人骨/

For the second post go to

http://printsofjapan.wordpress.com/2009/11/03/skeletons-skull-and-bones-in-japanese-art-and-elsewhere-part-two/

To see my web pages devoted to the Japanese and their tattoos – mainly in woodblock prints – you can start at

http://www.printsofjapan.com/Bad_boys_and_their_tattoos.htm

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From: Sreenadh OG <sreesog@...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:33 am
Subject: Skeletons, skulls and bones in Japanese Art and elsewhere – Part Two

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Source: http://printsofjapan.wordpress.com/2009/11/03/skeletons-skull-and-bones-in-japanese-art-and-elsewhere-part-two/
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Skeletons, skulls and bones in Japanese Art and elsewhere – Part Two

Filed under: Art,Japanese woodblock prints — vegder @ 11:59 am
Tags: danse macabre, Death and the maiden, Holbein, Kuniyoshi

When East met West – anatomically speaking

In 1771 a nameless, female criminal was executed. She earned, the hard way, the dubious honor of benefitting the exchange of ideas between the West and Japan and changing perceptions forever. Her contribution was not voluntary. Three men interested in the elements of Dutch medicine bribed the executioner to let them view her dissection. One of them was Sugita Gempaku (杉田玄白: 1733-1817) who happened to have access to a Dutch translation (1734) of an original German publication called the Anatomische Tabellen (人体解剖図表: 1722) by Johann Adam Kulmus (ヨハン. アダム.クルムス: 1689-1745). Gempaku was so impressed by the books accuracy that the next day he and his colleagues set about translating this work into Japanese. The result was the Kaitai Shinsho (解体新書: 1774) or ‘New Book of Anatomy’ sparked a whole new look at the European scientific method and an entirely new look at traditional Japanese medicine. The illustration below is from that translated copy.

Kaitai_shinsho_skeleton

Gempaku warned his readers that they would have to change their way of looking at things they thought they already knew. He called it “changing one’s outlook” (memboku o aratemeru). His revelations that day started a revolution in medicine and respect for Western scholarship. Of course, there had been dissections in the past but Gempaku believed that earlier Chinese and Japanese physicians had seen what they wanted to see to confirm their beliefs and not the true nature of things. He referred to his predecessors as being “hardened by chronic misconceptions”. According to Shigehisa Kuriyama in his essay “Between Mind and Eye: Japanese Anatomy in the Eighteenth Century” Gempaku felt that a physicians inability to see the truth was not just foggy thinking based on centuries of misconceptions, but that it was downright delusional and pathological in its resistance. There had been accounts of dissections from as early as the Han dynasty in China (206 B.C. to 220 A.D.), but there wasn’t a printed graphic to work from until the Sung dynasty almost a thousand years later. However, it wasn’t until the mid-14th century that such diagrams began to appear in Japan due to the work of the monk-physician Kajiwara Shōzen (梶原性全: 1266-1337). It took another four centuries before Japanese scholars began to seriously question the work handed down since the time of the Sung.

Cats have skulls and sometimes skulls have cats – at least in Japan

Kuniyoshi is undeniably a genius. I have said this elsewhere: If artistic ideas were tantamount to words Kuniyoshi would have the largest vocabulary of any artist I have ever known of – anywhere – anywhere in the world. Does that make him the best artist ever? No. But considering his remarkable skills he must be counted among the greatest. Besides, ‘best’ is a subjective word and from my perspective there is no ‘best,’ but many qualify.

Below is a prime example of Kuniyoshi’s fertile imagination. I have isolated one element of a print by him which shows skulls composed of the bodies of cats. Below that is the my adulterated version of the original print so you can better focus on the skulls themselves. But also, below that, are two other details from another robe which he is wearing and it too is decorated with skulls. Only this time the skulls are made up of lotus plants.

Kuniyoshi_skull_cats_pattern7e

Kuniyoshi_skull_cats_pattern5

Kuniyoshi_lotus_skull_pattern4a

Kuniyoshi_lotus_skulls_pattern4b

And then there is the sandal skull… Recently someone sent me a link to a web site that purported to show a face of Christ in a woodgrain product being sold by a major retailer. However, I thought the image had been doctored to make it look like Jesus and wasn’t very convincing. But I digress… as usual. Below is an enlargement of the sandal in the Kuniyoshi print I have been discussing and there is no mistaking the artist’s intent or that he meant to use a woodgrain to show it.

Kuniyoshi_sandal_skull6

Then there is Kuniyoshi’s cats of cats

Kuniyoshi_cat_made_of_cats5

Kuniyoshi_cat_head_made_of_cats5

Kuniyoshi and his skull of gourds

I suppose that Kuniyoshi’s images shown below could give new meaning to the phrase ’out of one’s gourd.’ But, of course, that is a Western phrase and odds are that there is no Japanese 19th century equivalent. On the other hand, after thinking about this some more, there probably is/was an appropriate Japanese phrase to fit such moments. If, and only if, the term ‘out of one’s gourd’ or ‘off one’s gourd’ has anything to do with drinking to excess an alcoholic beverage out of a gourd and becoming falling-down-slobbering-stupid-drunk how could the Japanese not have an expression to suit that condition?

Kuniyoshi_gourd_skull_dtl.7

Kuniyoshi_gourd_skulls3

Hirosada and his ginko leaf skulls -

The picture of ginko leaves on the right above was posted at commons.wikimedia by Friedrich Böhringer.

The danse macabre

There is a wonderful description of a storm by Thomas Hardy’s (トマス・ハーディ: 1840-1928) in his novel Far From the Madding Crowd (遥か群衆を離れて): “Heaven opened then, indeed. The flash was almost too novel for its for its inexpressably dangerous nature to be at once realized, and they could only comprehend the magnificance of its beauty. It sprang from east, west, north, south. It was a perfect dance of death. The forms of skeletons appeared in the air, shaped with blue fire for bones – dancing, leaping, striding, racing around, and mingling altogether in unparalled confusion.” Hardy continues by describing a bolt of lightning striking Gabriel who is holding Bathsheba’s arm: “In the meantime one of the grisly forms had alighted upon the point of Gabriel’s rod, to run invisibly down it, down the chain and into the earth. Gabriel was almost blinded, and he could feel Bathsheba’s warm arm tremble in his hand – a sensation novel and thrilling enough; but love, life, everything human seemed small and trifling in such close juxtaposition with an infuriated universe.”

Holbein_Danse_Macabre_drummer7c
Woodcut from the ‘Dance of Death’ series by Hans
Holbein (ハンス.ホルバイン: 1497-1543) the Younger .

In the 18th century Pierre Maupertuis (モーペルチュイ: 1698-1759), one of history’s great polymaths, on a visit to the ossuary at Toulouse was asked why the skeletons seemed to be laughing. His response, in French of course, was that they were laughing at us, the living. The skeleton drummer shown above is clearly enjoying himself. Not only does he have a smile on his face, a wicked grin you might say, but he’s got ears too. Hmmm? Odd isn’t it. Near his bony left foot is death’s hourglass with its inexorable sands or as Pink Floyd so succintly put it: “Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.”

By the mid-15th century the Dance of Death was ubiquitous in Europe. Why not? One hundred years ealier the Black Death (黒死病) had ravaged the populations from the sweltering, southern tip of Italy to the frigid Scandanavian region. No one was immune. In The Gender of Death: A Cultural History in Art and Literature the author, Karl Guthke, states that within the Christian world bracketed from the Fall to Last Judgement “…Death is a terrifying presence. Inexorably he approaches representatives of all estates and classes, hauling them out of life after a brief dialogue or dispute, without ever granting a reprieve.” Guthke also notes that “Gender specific attributes such as a drum often confirm [that Death] is a male image.”

Holbein_Danse_Macabre_Nun_no.7d

Nathanile Hawthorne (ナサニエル・ホーソーン: 1804-64) in his Twice Told Tales (二度語られた物語) relates the story of a woman who has been widowed three times and is determined to try again. One of her deceased husband’s had actually been a lot younger. But the woman was undaunted and determined to stay young although she clearly was losing that battle. Hawthorne noted that “The young have less charity for aged follies than the old for those of youth.” As the bride approached the Episcopalian church with her youthful entourage the mood soon began to sour. The chuch bell began a mournful, death knell. Everyone noticed, but the bride in particular. It was as if the “…stroke of the bell had fallen directly on her heart…” Soon the groom’s company was seen approaching, but so too was that of a funeral. Others began to join the crowd already in the church. The bride thought she recognized old friends long deceased. “Many a merry night she had danced with them in her youth; and now, in joyless age, she felt that some withered partner should request her hand, and all unite in a dance of death, to the music of the funeral bell.”

When the groom appered he was wearing his shroud. “The corpse stood motionless, but addressed the widow in accents that seemed to melt into the clang of the bell. Which fell heavily on the air while he spoke. ‘Come my bride!’ said those pale lips. ‘The hearse is ready. The sexton stands waiting for us at the door of the tomb. Let us be married; and then to our coffins!’ “

Holbein_Danse_Macabre_orchestra_no,4

All human beauty is ended by death – omnem in homine venustatem mors abolet (with an erotic subtext)

The image shown below is a detail from a print by Hans Sebald Beham (ハンス・ゼーバルト・ベーハム: 1500-50). While Death is not quite a skeleton yet – note the muscular arms and legs – he is well on his way to becoming one. His head is the only obvious give away – other than the inscription, of course – but how many of us can easily translate from the Latin? But what is particularly bothering here is the obvious erotic nature of the couple: the seduction of death. The tilt of his head/skull as he whispers into her ear while holding firmly onto her wrists.

Death_and_a_nude_woman_by_Beham6d

W. H. Auden (オーデン: 1907-73) once wrote:

Time and fevers burn away
Individual beauty from
Thoughtful children, and the grave
Proves the child ephemeral…

What’s worse than a going on a blind date?

Rendezvous_with_a_skeleton_6b

Kunisada_1850_Oiwa_and_monsters_6b

If you have any suggestions please get in touch.

For more information about Japanese prints and culture please visit our other web site at http://www.printsofjapan.com/.

================

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#64411

From: Sreenadh OG <sreesog@...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:59 am
Subject: FW: Re: History of Indian Astronomy - An outline (Kalyanaraman, 2012)

sreesog

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--- In hinducivilization@yahoogroups.com, "S. Kalyanaraman" <kalyan97@...> wrote:
29.3.12
http://bharatkalyan97.blogspot.in/2012/03/history-of-indian-astronomy-outline.ht\
ml

I am thankful to Shri Arun Upadhyay for the insights and links to documents
provided by him.
History of Indian Astronomy - An outline (Kalyanaraman, 2012)
[image: Listen to this article. Powered by
Odiogo.com]<http://bharatkalyan97.blogspot.in/2012/03/history-of-indian-astronom\
y-outline.html>
History of Indian Astronomy - An outline

Astronomy is one facet in the history of Indian science which rivaled the
scientific developments in Ayurveda (medical systems and therapeutic
effects of herbs) and chemistry (metallurgy, in particular).

Astronomical knowledge was used in day-to-day lives of people for timing
events such as annual festivals, marriages, performance of yajnas on
specific days of a year, start of agricultural sowing season. Astronomical
knowledge also resulted in advances in geometry in Indian mathematical
sciences to create fire-altars of specific geometrical shapes.

Countering some misconceptions

To say that all Sanskrit astronomical literature is translated from Arabic
is simply a restatement of the idea originated by Neugebauer, developed by
Pingree and continues to be propagated. Nayanasukha may have translated
some works from Arabic to Sanskrit. So was Euclid’s geometry translated
into Rekhaganita in Jaisingh’s time. Does that mean that Indians did not
have any knowledge of geometry? Sulbasutras used for yajna-s and
construction of agni-kundas (fire-altars) attest to the knowledge of
geometry.

There is evidence that the beginnings of Arabic astronomy are deeply rooted
in Indian astronomy. Some references may be cited:

“We report on a significant contribution made by the Kerala School of
Indian astronomers to planetary theory in the fifteenth century. Nilakantha
Somasutvan, the renowned astronomer of the Kerala School, carried out a
major revision of the older Indian planetary model for the interior
planets, Mercury and Venus, in his treatise Tantrasangraha (1500 AD), and
for the first time in the history of astronomy, he arrived at an accurate
formulation of the equation of centre for these planets. He also described
the implied geometrical picture of planetary motIon, where the five planets
- Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn - move in eccentric orbits
around the Sun, which in turn goes around the Earth. The later astronomers
of the Kerala School seem to have by and large adopted the planetary model
developed by Nilakantha.” (K. Ramasubramanian, MD Srinivas and MS Sriram,
1994, Modification of the earlier Indian planetary theory by the Kerala
astronomers (c. 1500 AD) and the implied heliocentric picture of planetry
motion, Current Science, Vol. 66, No. 10, 25 May 1994:
http://www.physics.iitm.ac.in/~labs/amp/kerala-astronomy.pdf) Copy attached
for ready reference.

Aryabhatiya, an ancient Sanskrit text on astronomy

Aryabhatiya is an ancient Sanskrit text on astronomy. The date of this text
is identified by a verse in Aryabhatiya which specifies his year of birth.

“When sixty times sixty years and three quarter-yugs had elapsed (of the
current yuga), twenty-three years had then passed since my birth.”
(A.iii.10).
शष्ट्यब्दानां शष्टिर्यदा
व्यतीतास्त्रयश्च युगपादाः
त्रयधिका
विंशतिरब्दास्तदेह मम
जन्मनोतीताः (A.iii.10).
Shashtyabdaanaam shashtiryadaa vyateetaastrayas’ca yugapaadaah
Trayadhikaa vims’atirabdaastadeha mama janmanoteetaah

This shows that in the Kali year 360, Aryabhata was twenty three years of
age. Even if it was read Kali year 3600, Aryabhata’s birth year corresponds
to 499 CE. (See Annex A. Hindu scholars dispute this reading and date
Aryabhata 360 years from Kali era which starts from c. 3100 BCE.)

The astronomical scope of Aryabhatiya may be gleaned from the table of
contents:
<http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZZmqEg9HoDE/T3VBRx3fbVI/AAAAAAAARjA/I5zMvRnkVN8/s1600\
/aryabhatiya1.jpg>
<http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-24hbyvwECxQ/T3VBYEF58OI/AAAAAAAARjM/7bM-9BedqIE/s1600\
/aryabhatiya2.jpg>

Bhaskara I (629 CE) was the earliest commentator of Aryabhatiya. Bhaskara
identifies that Aryabhata as from Kusumapura, that is, Pataliputra in
ancient Magadha. Aryabhata was born in As’maka janapada, according to
commentator Nilakantha (1500 CE). University of Nalanda had an astronomical
observatory; most likely, Aryabhata was kulapati (Chancellor) of this
University.

History of Indian Astronomy

http://www.scribd.com/doc/57672028/Indian-Astronomy-a-sourcebook BV
Subbarayappa and KV Sarma, 1985, Indian Astronomy – A source book, Bombay,
Nehru Centre. The Source book provides a select bibliography of over 300
important texts on Indian astronomy.
Indian Astronomy-a
sourcebook<http://www.scribd.com/doc/57672028/Indian-Astronomy-a-sourcebook>

“…the Indian astronomical tradition is very ancient, over four thousand
years old. It is still a living tradition as an integral part of the social
and religious life of the people, in which the traditional calendar called
the Pancanga continues to play an important role. The origins of the Indian
calendrical computation methods can be traced to the Vedic period, over
three thousand years ago, and since then astronomy in India has progressed
continuously with its own original ideas. At times it has also assimilated
the astronomical methods of the other culture-areas in a spirit of
open-mindedness, thus displaying a real scientific attitude.” (Raja
Ramanna, Foreword, p.5)

The book goes on to review the importance of astronomy in Hindu tradition:
“The Vedic life was noted for the performance of several sacrifices at
prescribed times, thus forging a relationship between the performer of
sacrifices (microcosm) with the heavens (macrocosm). There were monthly
rituals like the Dars’apurnamaasa and seasonal rites like the Caaturmaasya.
The sacrificial session called the Gavaamayana was specially designed for
the daily observation of the movements of the Sun and of the disappearance
of the Moon, and this must have given the priests sufficiently precise
knowledge about the astronomical elements. We have evidence to show that
even knowledge of a special kind, like the Saros of the Greeks, for
predicting the eclipse, was possessed by the priests of the Atri
family…jyotisha or the science as astronomy, was an integral part of the
life of the Vedic people of whom the Vedic priests were well versed in
astronomy. The astronomical knowledge was needed by them, apart from the
sacrifices, for festivities, marriages, sowing of the seeds and the like –
a tradition continuing even to this day. Though the Vedanga-jyotisha is…the
earliest text in India exclusively devoted to astronomy, the four Vedic
samhitas (the Rgveda, the Yajurveda, the Saamaveda and the Atharvaveda),
the Braahmanas, the Aaranyakas and the Upanishads contain a good deal of
astronomical knowledge. As to the Vedanga-jyotisha itself, there are two
recensions – the Rgvedic one containing 35 verses and the Yajurvedic having
43 verses…The astronomical knowledge of the Vedic literature may be
summarized thus: The universe was conceived as of three distinct parts –
the earth (prthvi), the firmament (antariksha) and the heavens (dyaus). The
Sun was regarded as the most important heavenly object and its path, the
ecliptic, was considered sacred. The Moon was the next most important and
became the obvious choice for time-reckoning. It was referred to as
maasakrt (‘maker of the month’) – the interval between two consecutive new
moons or full moons. There were two systems of month-reckoning, namely the
amaanta and the purnimaanta, ending with the new moon and the full moon,
respectively. The Moon’s path was observed in relation to the 27 or 28
nakshatras or asterisms and the lunar zodiac was well determined. There is
no denying the fact that, although there were lunar zodiac presentations in
Babylonia, China and Arabia, the method and the manner adopted by the Vedic
priests unmistakably point to their originality. The names of the lunar
months were given on the basis of the nakshatras in which the full moon
occurred. The twelve lunar months were divided into seasons of two months
each. There were also special names for the solar months. A month was
divided into two parts or pakshas, the bright half and the dark half of one
lunation, each paksha having 15 tithis, an ingenious device, which is
characteristically Indian, for calendrical purposes and the names of the
paksha following the Sanskrit ordinals. A day was regarded as consisting of
30 muhurts, (the longest at the summer solstice being 18 and the shortest
at the winter solstice 12 muhurtas). Intercalation at regular intervals was
known for luni-solar annual calendrical adjustments. The Vedic priests
possessed specific knowledge of the solstices and the Svarbhaanu legend
points to their observation of the solar eclipses…The Vedanga-jyotisha
conceived of a cycle of five years, a luni-solar cycle called the yuga, at
the beginning of which the Sun and the Moon would lie at the starting point
of the nakshatra Dhanishthaa. During this period, there would be 5
revolutions of the Sun, 67 Moon’s sidereal and 62 synodic months; 1830
saavana or civil days; 1835 sidereal days, 1800 solar days and 1860 lunar
days or tithis. The civil day was divided into 30 muhurtas: 1 muhurta into
2 naadikaas: 1 naadikaa into 10 1/20 kalaas; 1 kaalaa into 124 kaasthaas;
and 1 kaasthaa into 5 aksharas. The text, in a succinct manner, mentions
the 27 nakshatras, 10 ayanas and vishuvas and 30 rtus – all in an archaic,
aphoristic language. The object of dividing the day into 124 parts was to
have the ending moments of tithis in whole units; likewise of the 27
nakshatras. Each nakshatra was conceived in terms of 124 parts. Since there
are 1830 civil days in a five-year period, the year would consist of 366
days each; the rtus (when divided by 6) would have 61 days, and each ayana,
183 days. Two intercalary months were thought of, one at the end of the
fifth ayana and the other at the end of the 10th, for luni-solar
adjustments. To make the calendrical computation more accurate, the
day-length was considered to change by 6 muhurts, in one ayana, i.e. the
daily change would be 6/183 or 2/61 muhurtas. The later Hindu works like
the Gargasamhitaa and the Paitaamaha as well as the Jaina works like
Suryapannatti and Jyothskaranda follow the same system as that of the
Vedanga-jyotisha… The Vedanga-jyotisha is attributed to Lagadha who might
have codified the astronomical knowledge which was in vogue for several
centuries before him. The classical language employed in the text as now
available indicates that Lagadha’s work should have been redacted by a
later person in about 400 BCE…While the astronomical computations
enunciated in the Vedanga-jyotisha continud to be in use for a long time,
possibly during the few centuries preceding the Christian era, there was
emerging a new class of astronomical literature called Siddhaantas. An
important development was the gradual replacement of the nakshatra system
by the 12 Signs of the zodiac, Mesha, Vrshabha, Mithuna..Miina, similar to
the animistic notions of the Babylonians and from them of the Greeks. With
the invasion of India by Alexander the Great in the fourth century BCE and
the subsequent Hellenic and the Hellenistic or Greco-Roman contacts with
India, conceivably the astronomical elements of the former should have
influenced the Indian culture-area. Such elements included the length of
the year, planetary motions, calculation of solar and lunar eclipses, ideas
of parallax, determination of mean longistudes etc. Another notable aspect
was that, during this period and a few centuries after the Christian era,
the Indian culture-area developed new mathematical methods, many of them
for promoting astronomical calculations. The result was that the Indian
astronomers were able mathematicians too and the mathematicization of
astronomy added a veneer of accuracy to the study of several astronomical
phenomena.” (pp. xx-xxii)

“…The Indian traditional astronomy is essentially geo-centric and
geo-static inasmuch as the Earth is considered to be a stationary sphere at
the centre of the solar system. The Sun, the Moon and the planets have a
motion of their own from west to east while the asterisms or the stellar
sphere is considered to have their motion from east to west, as a result of
which the former are supposed to fall behind the latter. This geocentric
and geo-stationary view was for the first time o0dified by Aryabhata I who,
while maintaining the geo-centric idea, conceived of a direct rotation of
the Earth about its axis, and even gave a precise rate of rotation stating
that the Earth rotates through an angle of one second in one praana of
time…The Indian astronomers conceived of the celestial sphere in all its
details – the zenith, the nadir, the horizon, the prime vertical, the hour
circle, the meridian, the ecliptic, the celestial equator and the
inclination of the ecliptic to it, the celestial poles etc…the Indian
astronomers, through calculations of their own, have arrived at the
obliquity of the ecliptic with the celestial equator as 24 degrees which
forms the basis of their other computations.” (p. xxxi)

“…Though the influx of astronomical texts into China started from the 6th
century CE itself, it was during the Sui dynasty (CE 581-618) and the
‘Glorious Period’ of the Thang dynasty (618-907) that the process reached
its height. RC Gupta has listed a number of Indian texts which were
translated into Chinese during this period and several Indian scholars who
went to China and engaged themselves in this work. (See ‘Indian astronomy
in China’, Vishveshvaranand Ind. Jl., 19 (1981) 266-72). The Indian
calendrical system was popular also in Nepal, Tibet, Thailand, Java and
other places. During the reign of Caliph al-Mansur, an Indian astronomer
visited Baghdad, carrying with him the textul material concerning planetary
tables, calculation of eclipses and the like, as evidenced by the account
of Ibn al-Adami in his astronomical tables Nazm al-iga. The interest in
Indian astronomical texts evinced by the Caliph was so great that he
ordered the Braahmasphuta-siddhaanta and Khandakhaadyaka of Brahmagupt to
be translated into Arabic. Muhammed ib Ibrahim al-Fazari rendered the
former, nd the Ya’qub ibn Tariq, the latter into Arabic under the titles
Sindhind and Arkand, respectively, understandably with the help of Indian
pundits who had already established their reputation in the royal court.
Aryabhata I was known to the Arab astronomers as ‘Arjabahr’. The well-known
astronomers like al-Khwarizmi, al-Hasan, al-Nairizi, ibn as-Saffar, ibn
Yunis and al-Battani were quite familiar with the Indian astronomical
computations and used them even in their works. Some of the Islamic zijes
included the zero meridian of Ujjain, under the name ‘Arin’, the
Kaliyuga-era, spherical trigonometrical calculations etc. It may be noted
that the Sanskrit word ‘jyaa’ or ‘jiivaa’ meaning half-chord, had got
mutilated in its Arabic form, which in its Latin translation came to be
called ‘sinus’, and later ‘sine’. The most outstanding scientific
transmitter and synthesizer was al-Biruni who came to India in the eleventh
century CE, stayed here for a considerable time and acquired intimate
knowledge of Indian astronomy. Before he came to India, he had already an
insight into the Indian astronomical endeavours, through the Arabic
translations. He wrote many books in Arabic and his Tarikh al-Hind, is a
classic and a veritable source for Inian astronomy of the times. The
Islamic culture-area played an important role not only in the transmission
of astronomical and other scientific ideas but also in engendering its
scientific development. In astronomy, Maraagha school led by Nasir al-Din
at-Tusi had established itself by the thirteenth century CE. Later, an
off-shoot of this school flourished in Samarkand, of which Ulugh Bek was a
well-known astronomer. He built there an observatory and compiled
diligently certain sets of astronomical tables. During the Mughal period in
India, Islamic astronomical elements became rather widely current. Earlier,
in the fourteenth century, Mahendra Suri had incorporated Islamic elements
into his Yantraraja and, during the Mughal period, Malayendu Suri produced
a commentary on it. In the court of Akbar was Nilakantha Jyotirvid who
compiled a popular work called Taajika-Nilakanthii, introducing into it a
number of Persian technical terms of astronomical import. The most
important development during this period, however, was the erection of huge
masonry observatories by Maharaja Sawai Jai Singh II in the second quarter
of the eighteenth century, deriving inspiration from those in Samakand. He
built observatories in Delhi, Jaipur, Ujjain, Mathura and Banaras. As to
the telescope, there is no doubt that Jai Singh used it for observing the
Moon, the sun-spots and the moons of Jupiter and the like. Nevertheless, he
appears to have relied more on the instruments erected by him, for his
recordings, which were meticulously documented under the title Zij
Muhammad-shaahii, a text which still needs to be studied and evaluated in
depth. There is also a Sanskrit version of this work.” (pp.xxxviii-xxxx)

Astronomy for calendrical events and mathematics for fire-altar shapes

The yajnas were performed at precise times according to the Hindu
calendrical system. The performance was supported by yajna-kundas
(fire-altars of specific shapes) constructed using rules of geometry.

S’rauta sutras contain discussion and non-axiomatic demonstrations of cases
of the Pythagorean theorem and Pythagorean triples. It is also implied and
cases presented in the earlier work of Apastamba and Baudhayana, although
there is no consensus on whether or not Apastamba's rule is derived from
Mesopotamia. In Baudhayana, the rules are given as follows:

1.9. The diagonal of a square produces double the area [of the square].
[...]
1.12. The areas [of the squares] produced separately by the lengths of the
breadth of a rectangle together equal the area [of the square] produced by
the diagonal.
1.13. This is observed in rectangles having sides 3 and 4, 12 and 5, 15 and
8, 7 and 24, 12 and 35, 15 and 36. (Plofker, Kim (2007). "Mathematics in
India". The Mathematics of Egypt, Mesopotamia, China, India, and Islam: A
Sourcebook. Princeton University Press, pp. 388-389.)

The Satapatha Brahmana and the Taittiriya Samhita were probably also aware
of the Pythagoras theorem.Seidenberg (1983) argued that either "Old
Babylonia got the theorem of Pythagoras from India or that Old Babylonia
and India got it from a third source".Seidenberg suggested that this source
might be Sumerian and may predate 1700 BC… Pythagorean triples are found in
Apastamba's rules for altar construction (Joseph, G. G. 2000. The Crest of
the Peacock: The Non-European Roots of Mathematics. Princeton University
Press. 416 pages. ISBN 0691006598. page 229.). They were used for the
construction of right angles. These triples are easily derived from an old
Babylonian rule… The Baudhayana Shulba sutra gives the construction of
geometric shapes such as squares and rectangles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shulba_Sutras

Bibliographical notes:

Prof KV Sharma provides an account in “A history of the Kerala School of
Astronomy”, Vishveshvaranand Institute, Hoshiarpur (1972) of hundreds of
works in Sanskrit (and Malayalam) from 4th century all the way to 19th
century.

Brahmasphuta siddhanta was brought to the Caliph of Baghdad, Ali Mansur in
770 CE and it was translated into Arabic (Zij-al Sindhind).

Aryabhata's work and Brahmagupta's Khandakhadyaka were also translated into
Arabic. (Zij-al Arkand).

Brhatsamhita of Varahamihira was translated into Persian when Firuj Tughlaq
was ruling in Delhi (1351-1388 CE)(Kitab Barahi sanghita).

Mahendra Suri in 1370 CE wrote Yantraraja, based on sources in Arabic and
Persian.

When Jai Singh II started work on his Zij-i-Muhammad Shahi, Jagannatha
Pandita translated Nasir-al-Din Tusi's Tahrir al-Majisti (Almagest from
Ptolemy) into Sanskrit, Samrat Siddhanta (1747 CE).

Zij-i-Ulugh Begi was translated into Sanskrit, Tara-Sarani by Jai singh's
jyotishi, Kewalrama Srimali. Zije Nityanadi Shahjahani was prepared in
Sanskrit by Nityanad, son of Devadatta in 1727 CE.

Wazir Hasan Abdi, ‘Enrichment of Mathematical Sciences in India through
Arabic and Persian’ in: B, V. Subbarayappa and S R N murthy (eds.),
1988,Scientific heritage of India: Proceedings of a national seminar,
September 19-21, 1986, Bangalore.
http://books.google.co.in/books/about/Scientific_heritage_of_India.html?id=bq4yA\
AAAIAAJ&redir_esc=y

K.V. Sarma, "Source Materials on Indian Mathematics and Astronomy “ in B.V.
Subbarayappa & S.R.N. Mutthy (ed), Scientific Heritage of India: Proceeding
of a National Seminar, September 19-21, 1986, The Mythic Society,
Bangalore, 1988, pp. 1-9.

C. K. Raju and Dennis Almeida (Aryabhata Group), “The Transmission of the
Calculus from Kerala to Europe, Part I: Motivation and Opportunity”, “Part
II: Documentary and Circumstantial Evidence”. Paper presented at the
Aryabhata Conference, Trivandrum, Jan, 2000.

Raju, C.K. , Computers, mathematics education, and the alternative
epistemology of the calculus in the Yuktibhâsâ Philosophy East and West 51,
University of Hawaii Press, 2001.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/78993368/Popular-Hindu-Astronomy Kalinath
Mukherjee, 1905, Popular Hindu Astronomy, Calcutta, Nirmal Mukherjea
http://www.scribd.com/doc/58616460/Aryabhatiya-with-English-commentary KS
Shukla, ed., 1976, Aryabhatiya: text and English commentary, New Delhi,
Indian National Science Academy
http://www.scribd.com/doc/57165936/Surya-siddhanta Mahavir Prasad
Srivastava, 1940, Surya Siddhanta: Commentary (Hindi), Allahabad,
Ratnakumari svadhyaya sansthan,
http://www.scribd.com/Arunupadhyay
Annex A. Debate on Āryabhaṭa’s date
Āryabhaṭa-1 wrote Āryabhaṭīya in Kali 360 year. Ṣaṣṭyabdānām
ṣaḍbhiryadā
(60x6).
आर्यभटीय, कालक्रियापाद-
षष्ट्यब्दानां षड्भिर्यदा
व्यतीतास्त्रयश्च युगपादाः।
त्र्यधिका
विंशतिरब्दास्तदेह मम
जन्मनोऽतीताः॥१०॥
= When 6 cycles of 60 years passed in third quarter of Yuga (Kali), then 23
years of my life has passed.
Āryabhaṭīya (1/3) mentioned that in one Mahāyuga of 43,20,000 years, the
Earth rotates itself on its own axis 158,22,37,500 times and the moon
revolves round 5,77,53,336 times. Thus, the number of rotations of the
Earth per Lunar orbit is 27.39646936.
Vākya-karaṇa (short sentences indicating numbers for easy calculation of
planets) were based on Āryabhaṭa.
Kali Samvat starts on 17/18-2-3102 BC (without counting 0 CE), Ujjain
mid-night.
Kali era which was only 36 years after Mahābhārata war.
महाभारत, शान्ति पर्व
(४७/३)-शुक्लपक्षस्य चाष्टम्यां
माघमासस्य पार्थिव।
प्राजापत्ये च नक्षत्रे मध्यं
प्राप्ते दिवाकरे॥
निवृत्तमात्रे त्वयन उत्तरे
वै दिवाकरे।
समावेशयदात्मानमात्मन्येव
समाहितः॥३॥
अनुशासन पर्व (१६७/५) उषित्वा
शर्वरीः श्रीमान्
पञ्चाशन्नगरोत्तमे। समयं
कौवाग्र्यस्य सस्मार
पुरुषर्षभः॥५॥
दिष्ट्या प्राप्तोऽसि कौन्तेय
सहामात्यो युधिष्ठिर।
परिवृत्तो हि भगवान्
सहस्रांशुर्दिवाकरः॥२६॥
अष्टपञ्चाशतं रात्र्यः
शयानस्याद्य मे गताः। शरेषु
निशिताग्रेषु यथा वर्षशतं
तथा॥।२७॥
माघोऽयं समनुप्राप्तो मासः
सौम्यो युधिष्ठिर।
त्रिभागशेषः पक्षोऽयं
शुक्लोबवितुमर्हति॥२८॥
उद्योग पर्व(१४२/१८)
सप्तमाच्चापि दिवसादमावास्या
भविष्यति। संग्रामो युज्यतां
तस्यां तामाहुः शक्रदेवताम्॥
भीष्मपर्व (३/३२)-चतुर्दशीं
पञ्चदशीं भूतपूर्वां च
षोडषीम् ।
इमां तु नाभिजाने
ऽहममावास्यां त्रयोदशीम्।
चन्द्रसूर्यावुभौ
ग्रस्तावेकमासीं
त्रयोदशीम्।।३२॥
अपर्वणि ग्रहेणैतौ प्रजाः
संक्षपयिष्यतः। मांसपर्वं
पुनस्तीव्रमासीत् कृष्ण
चतुर्दशीम्॥३३॥
(2) Kaliyuga started on 17/18-2-3102 BC Ujjain midnight Friday, with Vijaya
samvatsara by sūrya-siddhānta (mean motion of Guru), and Pramāthī as per
Pitāmaha-siddhānta followed in south India.

kerala-astronomy _1_<http://www.docstoc.com/docs/117498839/kerala-astronomy-_1_>

Kerala Astronomy (K. Ramasubramanian et al,
1994)<http://www.scribd.com/srini_kalyanaraman/d/87298146-Kerala-Astronomy-K-Ram\
asubramanian-et-al-1994>

Select Bibliography Indian
Astronomy<http://www.scribd.com/srini_kalyanaraman/d/87299736-Select-Bibliograph\
y-Indian-Astronomy>
Kalyanaraman
Sarasvati Research Center.

--
Sarasvati <http://sites.google.com/site/kalyan97>
====================

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From: Sreenadh OG <sreesog@...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:13 am
Subject: PUPPIES, PUPPIES, PUPPIES – Not Quite the Zodiac – The Dog – inu

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Source: http://printsofjapan.wordpress.com/tag/zodiac/
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PUPPIES, PUPPIES, PUPPIES – Not Quite the Zodiac – The Dog – inu – 戌

Filed under: Art,Japanese woodblock prints — vegder @ 9:21 am
Tags: Fragonard, Harunobu, Hiroshige, Koryusai, Kuniyoshi, Rembrandt, Toraji, zodiac

Before you move on to dogs and puppies, I thought you might want to know that I have been updating my most recent skulls and bones post. If you are among the curious go there and look for the section on the bones of Adam or nascentes morimur. There will be several additions and I have just begun to get to it. So… like everything else I do please try to be patient with me. I’m only human – or so the rumor goes. Below is a teaser:

You will find it at: http://printsofjapan.wordpress.com/2011/02/19/skeletons-skulls-and-bones-in-japanese-art-and-elsewhere-part-three/ – that is, if you are interested.

Now, back to the subject at hand:

I found this at commons.wikimedia, but it was originally posted at Flickr by delta16v. This is a shiba inu 柴犬 or ‘brushwood dog’. There is a woman in my neighborhood who walks her dog every day. I stopped and asked her once recently what the dogs breed was and she told me it is a shiba inu and then she added that Ichiro owns one. Unbeknownst to her that was the impetus that got me to start this post.

A few thoughts about the shiba inu (and maybe some other Japanese breeds) – I think, and remember I emphasize the ‘I think’ part, that most experts now believe dogs evolved from wolves. That said, Mark Derr in his Dog’s Best Friend… says “Although this association is the most speculative, Canis lupus hodophilax, the extinct little Japanese wolf, probably figured in the creation of dogs like the shikoku, kai, the shiba inu, and other indigenous breeds.”

Everyone loves puppies – well, almost everyone. They bring out the awwwwwww factor in most people in the West. I can’t be sure about other places on earth – if you know what I mean, but generally they touch something in even the most hardhearted individuals around. They certainly do in me, but, hell, I cry at sad movies. (Don’t tell anyone. Let’s keep that just between you and me, okay?) For example, several years ago I went hiking and camping with friends in Banff National Park. We saw tons of wildlife from black bears and mountain goats to marmots. However, the one which was the most surprising was a stuffed dog I spotted along the trail from Lake Louise to the Lake Agnes teahouse. Despite its look of pure innocence one can never be sure so I decided that it would be best to give this creature a wide berth and a good thing I did. I lived to write about it.

Anyway, I have to admit I was truly conflicted about even starting this post. One side of me wanted to address the topic of puppies and dogs in Japanese art, culture and history, in general and the other side kept saying don’t do it! Remember the zodiac? That has to be dealt with at some point and how are you [meaning 'me'] going to separate to two? And, guess what, I was right. I couldn’t. So… here goes. I am now going to tackle another subject I know next to nothing about. Ignorance should be my middle name, but it isn’t. It’s Steve. But that’s not important. What is important is that hopefully by the end of this ‘puppy’ adventure I should know something new concerning this topic – and hopefully you will too.

This detail from a Hiroshige print from 1858 is one of my most favorite images of puppies in Japanese art. Too cute to ignore.

Year of the Dog 戌年, Month of the Dog, Day of the Dog, Hour of the Dog 戌ノ刻 -The dog is the eleventh sign of the Japanese zodiac, it represents 7 to 9 PM, west-northwest and now September.

Just so you will know the character for dog can be either 犬 which is used for dogs in general or 戌 which is used for the zodiac. Both are pronounced inu.

The koyomi 暦 or lunar calendar was used from the early 7th century until the adoption of the solar-based Gregorian calendar on January 1, 1873. The earlier koyomi operated very much like our Farmer’s Almanac did. It not only let farmers know when they should plant or harvest, but it advised on everything else – good, bad and indifferent.

According to an article in The Japan Times from Dec. 31, 2005 people born in a dog year “…possess a sense of duty and obligation. You are fastidious, diligent and make a peaceful, harmonious atmosphere.” Those are the good traits. The negatives are selfishness and being stubborn.

But what if I want to get married? – According to Leon Frédéric in his entry on the horoscope says that if you were born in the year of the Rat it would be best if you married someone born in the year of the Dragon, Monkey or Ox, but you can settle for a Dog person if necessary. If you were born in the year of the Ox, Dragon or Goat stay away from Dogs. If you were born in the year of the Tiger, Rabbit or Horse a Dog would make a good match. Frédéric doesn’t tell us what a Snake,Monkeys of Boar should do – at least when it comes to Dogs. If you were born in a year of the Cock you shouldn’t trust a Dog, but at least a Dog isn’t as bad as a Rabbit.

The Hour of the Dog 7 to 9 P.M. – Sometimes the connection with dogs is not so evident. Utamaro did a series of elegant prints in ca. 1794 which show courtesans engaged in everyday activities – everything but sex. In the upper right hand corner of each print is a late 18th century clock with the title of the individual hour – remember traditionally Japanese hours were two hours long – written on the front. Look for the inu 戌 character. It is there.

The Day of the Dog – In the Japan Encyclopedia by Louis Frédéric it says: “A custom according to which a pregnant woman wears a special obi called iwata-obi [岩田帯] tied around her chest on the day of the dog (Inu no Hi), starting in the fifth month of pregnancy, in order to have an easy delivery.” Below is an image I found posted at commons.wikimedia by Snorer. It is originally from the Heibonsha Encyclopedia of 1927. I tweaked the image to make it appear in the negative.

Elsewhere Frédéric lists the Day of the Dog of the 3rd Month as a bad luck day when people should not work in their fields or get married.

Demonomania – When I set out to do research on the Hour of the Dog there were lots of references, the majority in fact, to how this or that happened at that time. Most references could be easily skipped over because they appeared in modern novels or Western uses of the same term, but in a different sort of way. Then I found a fascinating book called Chinese Magical Medicine and finally something that wasn’t just fluff. For example, this book had one sentence that read: “It may turn out, upon analysis, that the wave of demonomania that swept over the Japanese aristocracy was to a large extent iatrogenic, produced by the monkish physicians themselves.” That sentence stopped me in my tracks. I hadn’t had an experience like that since I was a teenager reading an editorial in the Kansas City Star in which they used the terms ‘smarmy’ and ‘purblind’ in the same passage. Anyway, back to the topic: What is the significance of the Hour of the Dog?

It would seem that throughout South and East Asia there was only one explanation for childhood diseases and deaths – demon possession. In fact, a system developed which stated that there were 12 female demons which corresponded to the afflictions of the young from birth to the age of 12. The first female demon possessed and tormented children from the day of their birth until the age of 1. That is when the second female demon would take over until the child turned 2 and so on. The 12th female demon which had started out as a male, but was conveniently transformed into the ‘fairer’ sex, was Skanda. Skanda is a fascinating character on his own. He was originally a demon who led a group of animal demons until he was transformed into a protector of life among the Buddhist pantheon. Below is an image of him riding on his vehicle, the peacock. It is from a photo posted at commons.wikimedia by Dbalbiez and shows a Khmer sculpture now in the Musée Guimet.

To rid a child of its afflictions each demoness requires a special ceremony of incantations and preperations. Think Linda Blair and Max von Sydow in The Exorcist. Here is the formula as it pertains to the female Skanda:

Such are the preparations to be followed in the event of an attack by the mother-demon Skandā during
the twelfth day, month, or year of life. In this case, the chief symptom is a fixed and furious staring, as if
the child wanted to attack someone, and clenching of the hands and feet. The spell-possessor should
model the child’s image in barley dough; the banners this time should be red, powdered cowhorn should
be an ingredient of the fumigatory, and the consecrated offerings should be borne out of town at
the hour of the Dog (7:00-9:00 A.M.) in an easterly direction then carried around in all four directions
before being thrown away.

This next passage is from a 1900 article by Ernest W. Clement on The Folk-Lore of Japanese Calendars:

The following items about the superstitions of seasons have been obtained from a booklet by Mr. Hachihama
on ” Superstitious Japan ” (Meishin no Nippon): If one swallows seven grains of red beans (azuki) and one go
of sake before the hour of the ox on the first day of the year, he will be free from sickness and calamity
throughout the year; if be drinks loso [spiced sake] at the hour of the tiger of the same day, he will be untouched
by malaria through the year; if he washes his armpits with his own urine at the hour of the tiger of the same day,
he will be free from offensive smell in those parts. On the 7th day of the 1st month if a male swallows seven, and
a female fourteen, red beans, they will be free from sickness all their lives ; if one takes a hot bath on the same
day, he will escape calamity. If one bathes at the hour of the dog on the tenth day [of the same month],
his teeth will become hard.

It’s the zodiac stupid! – No, I don’t think you are stupid. I don’t even know you, probably. The point I am trying to make is more a note to myself since I so often stray from the topic. The dog is first and foremost a sign of the zodiac – at least traditionally. In ca. 1840 Kuniyoshi produced a series a series of prints which paired famous heroes with zodiacal signs. I have posted the one for inu below. Notice the character for dog printed in black in a red field in the upper right. The hero represented here is Hata Rokurōzaemon from the early 14th century.

The banners of the enemy, the Hōjō, are seen in the distance. In a 1922 sales catalogue of the Rouart collection Frederick Gookin states: “By the aid of his remarkably intelligent dog and a few devoted followers he captured twelve of the thirty-seven fortresses held by the Hōjō. The dog was sent to the enemy’s lines after nightfall; if he found the guards alert he came back and barked, if the watch was neglected he reported the favorable condition by wagging his tail.”

Did I mention faithful? An abbreviated story of Hachiko, the akita – There are numerous retellings of the story of Hachiko. So, remember what I am about to relate is not the gospel. That said, Hachiko would accompany his owner, Professor Ueno, to the Shibuya every day and would greet him on his return at 3 PM. Then one day the professor didn’t show up. Nor did he return the next day or the next or… oh, you get the point. This went on for years. People took pity on the dog and fed and sheltered him, but each day he would return to the station and wait for his owner. His devotion became a national sensation and people would travel to Shibuya just to see, pet and feed him – for good luck. On March 7, 1935 Hachiko died at the age of 12. All of the newspapers carried the story and “A day of mourning was declared.”

Later that year a bronze statue was erected on the site where he had waited. However, like so many other statues it was melted down for the war effort. After the war a new statue, the one seen immediately below, was dedicated to this loyal pup. And now the carcass of Hachiko can still be seen on display in a museum in Ueno Park.

This is my altered picture of a statue of Hachiko at Shibuya. The original was posted at Flickr by Soberch.

Here is the same Hachiko – sort of – after having visited the taxidermist and now on display at the National Museum of Nature and Science in Ueno. This image was posted at commons.wikimedia by Muramasa.

So, I know you are asking yourself, at this very moment “When was the first dog represented in a Japanese woodblock print?” Well, to tell you the truth, I don’t know. However, I am going to try to find out. Until then, what I can tell you is this – Harunobu (春信: 1725-70), the artist who probably created the first multi-colored (nishiki) prints in the 1760s and 70s included images of dogs in quite a few of his works. Some of these dogs represented the real thing and some of them were imaginary. Below you will see what I mean.

Begging for a treat – How many times every day do Americans tell their dogs to sit, fetch, play dead, roll over or beg? Who could count that high. Sometimes one has to wonder whose behavior is more greatly modified, the dog’s or the owner’s? The Harunobu print shown below could just as easily be a scene from a contemporary household down the street or maybe even yours – with just a few changes like clothing, etc. It seems that some things haven’t never really change.

I found an earlier woodblock print of a dog and it is by Hishikawa Moronobu (菱川師宣: d. 1694). (I added the green background.)

Of course, I know that there were earlier painting which included dogs. For example, there is painting by Sotatsu (宗達: fl. 1600-1630s) in the Freer Sackler collection in D. C. Below is a detail showing all of the painted surface.

The spotted puppy is a particularly endearing image. In 1802, another Year of the Dog, one artist created an egoyomi (絵暦) or calendar print showing two spotted puppies. But look carefully, those spots are actually Japanese characters representing the different months.

Another hidden message – In 1778 Koryusai produced a print of seven puppies grouped near a narcissus plant. Since 1778 was another Year of the Dog the print makes perfect sense. However, what most people wouldn’t realize that it was also the seventh year of the An’ei era (1772-81) and hence the seven pups. They are huddled together to fight off the cold.

Kiyonaga and Koryusai dogs after Harunobu – This first image below is of two girls with a dog by Koryusai. Is that a ball or a biscuit drawing the dog’s attention? Probably a ball? That’s my guess. Yours might be different.

Another Koryusai shows a courtesan with her assistant and a rather hefty looking pekingese. In ca. 1781 Kiyonaga produced an image of a woman leaving her bath with a dog watching her. This is a motif which was reproduced in one variation or another by later artists right up into the 20th century.

Sleeve dogs – It has been said that the pekingese was a favorite among 18th century prostitutes. In a book by James Dyer Ball called Things Chinese from 1904 there is a particularly apt quote: “They are docile, playful, and affectionate, and of unusual intelligence. Their long silky coats, delicate and finely formed paws, large, lustrous eyes, massive heads, and long, feathery tails, proudly curled over their backs, make them beautiful pets. . . . Smallness is an important point, as they are carried in the large sleeves of Japanese ladies and called ‘sleeve dogs.’” This is an expression, I must admit, I had not heard until now. And, in case you were wondering, the French for sleeve dog is le sleeve-dog, or chien de la Cour. This breed is sometimes known as a Japanese spaniel or Japanese chin.

There is a short story, Kerfol, by Edith Wharton (イーディス・ウォートン: 1862-1937) of a woman who is visiting Brittany for the first time. A friend suggests that she look at a run-down property which he says she could pick up cheaply. He drops her off at a juncture in a road and tells her how to find the place. The description makes it seem like the House of Usher was located in Brigadoon. There is a sense of the unreal, of other-worldliness. When she arrives she is greeted by a guard dog in the courtyard. “…a little dog [which] barred my way. He was such a remarkably beautiful little dog that for a moment he made me forget the splendid place he was defending. I was not sure of his breed at the time, but have since learned that it was Chinese, and that he was of a rare variety called the “Sleeve-dog.” He was very small and golden brown, with large brown eyes and a ruffled throat: he looked rather like a large tawny chrysanthemum. I said to myself: ‘These little beasts always snap and scream, and somebody will be out in a minute.’ ¶ The little animal stood before me, forbidding, almost menacing: there was anger in his large brown eyes. But he made no sound, he came no nearer. Instead, as I advanced, he gradually fell back…” The sleeve-dog was joined by other dogs which also remained silent while an intense white pointer with one brown ear looked down at them from a window. To learn the rest read the story. The sleeve dog plays an important role.

The next quote is from the 1905 edition of With the Empress Dowager by Katherine Augusta Carl. While it deals with China and not Japan still I feel that it is worth citing. “The dogs at the Palace are kept in a beautiful pavilion with marble floors. They have silken cushions to sleep on, and special eunuchs to attend them. They are taken for daily outdoor exercise and given their baths with regularity. There are hundreds of dogs in the Palace, the young Empress, the Princesses and Ladies, and even the eunuchs, having their own. Some of the eunuchs are great fanciers and breeders of them. One of them still breeds the sleeve-dog. Her Majesty’s known dislike to these latter is probably the cause of fewer being bred in the palace now than formerly, and the race is slowly dying out.”

Below is a detail from a print by Koryusai (湖龍斎: active 1760-83) on the left and a Japanese chin on the right. It was originally posted at Flickr by Alex Archambault.

And just for good measure I have decided to add an image I found at commons.wikipedia originally posted elsewhere by Exceptionalrule. Again this 6 month old pup brings out the awwwwww factor in many of us. Not all of us, but enough not to be embarrassed by our own reactions.

After Wharton’s adored pet, Nicette, a papillon, died she kept only pekingese. There is an odd picture of Wharton with two small dogs balanced not in her sleeves, but on her shoulders. It was posted at Flickr by 50 Watts.

Say what? There is a book by Maureen Adams, Shaggy Muses…, in which Wharton’s love of dogs is discussed. However, Adams makes one, at least one, I haven’t found any others, mistake when she says: “…the Pekingese was unknown outside China until the Opium War, when British soldiers invaded the Imperial Palace in Peking and discovered the body of a princess who had committed suicide rather than fall into enemy hands. Guarding her body were five exotic dogs that looked like small lions. Several officers took the dogs back to England, and in 1861, they presented the most beautiful beautiful of the five to Queen Victoria. This little Peke, appropriately named Looty, so pleased the queen that she had Looty’s portrait painted by Sir Edwin Landseer, the preeminent Victorian painter.”

Supposedly the Queen named the dog Looty because it came from the Summer Palace and was made a gift to her by the 99th Regiment. Below is a photograph of the dog taken by William Bambridge and still in the Royal Collection.

She was wrong! When Maureen Adams said: “…the Pekingese was unknown outside China until the Opium War…” she was wrong. When I read that I thought about the fact that these dogs were fashionable pets among courtesans in Japan in, at least, the late 18th century. To be fair, how would Ms. Adams have known that. So, perhaps I was being a bit niggling on this one. And then I read what Margaret Truman, Harry’s daughter, had to say about it in The President’s House: 1800 to the Present The Secrets and History of the World’s Most Famous Home:

Photo of Margaret Truman posted at commons.wikimedia by Scewing

“In 1855, Commodore Matthew C. Perry returned from his historic voyage to Japan, a trip that opened that country to trade with the West. Perry brought back several crates full of gifts for President Franklin Pierce, including Japanese silks, porcelains, and fans. The gift that appealed to the president most was a collection of seven tiny canines that were known in Asia as ‘sleeve dogs’.” (The two images shown below were posted at commons.wikimedia by Gwillhickers for the stamp and Maksim for the picture of Franklin Pierce. Do you think Pierce is posed like that in a Napoleonic-hand-in-coat position because he is petting his new pekingese? Probably not, but just wait until you see the next reference from this book.)

Jeff Davis and shades of Elle Woods and Paris Hilton – Truman continued: “Pierce kept one of the dogs at the White House. The others were given to friends, including Secretary of War Jefferson Davis, who was so delighted with the creature that he carried him around in his pocket.” (This image of Jeff Davis was posted at commons.wikimedia by Materialscientist. The 1887 photo of Queen Victoria was placed at the same location by Phrood. I put them side by side because, according to Margaret Truman, Pres. Pierce and several of his friends, including Davis, owned sleeve dogs before the Queen did.)

There is much more to be admired and enjoyed in Maureen Adams’ book than to be criticized: For example, in her first section on Elizabeth Barrett Browning (エリザベス・バレット・ブラウニング: 1806–1861) she writes about this author’s overwhelming grief following the death of one of her brothers. She had had a lot of reasons to be sad and mournful prior to this, but Bro’s death could have been her final straw. That is, until her friend Mary Mitford sent her a cocker spaniel puppy to cheer her up. It worked. Not immediately, but soon enough. Ms. Barrett was drawn out of her depression by this irrepressible pet called Flush. Adams reports that Flush “…invented a favorite game that he insisted on repeating over and over. As Elizabeth reclined on her sofa, Flush would climb from the armrest to the top of her head and perch there ‘with his silky ears flapping about mine’ for several minutes. Then with no warning he would tumble down over her shoulders ‘like an avalanche.’ Although Elizabeth considered the game ‘eccentric and perverse’ and worried that Flush might break her bones, she tolerated it because he enjoyed it so much.” The mental picture one gets of this game rivals or trumps the shoulder-sitting picture shown above of Edith Wharton and her overly indulged dogs.

Browning wrote a toucing poem, To Flush, My Dog. Virginia Woolf (ヴァージニア・ウルフ: 1882-1941) wrote a biography of Flush (フラッシュ). Woolf is an interesting case. ” ‘Flush‘, wrote Quentin Bell in the biography of his aunt [Virginia Woolf], ‘is not so much a book by a dog lover as a book by someone who would love to be a dog.” Woolf and her family shared a trait: They liked to compare one another and others to animals or creatures. Woolf, who in one of her fits of madness swore that she heard the birds singing in Greek, once referred to Aldous Huxley as a ‘gigantic grasshopper.’ As a point of interest Huxley (オールダス・ハックスリー: 1894-1963) was 6′ 4 1/2″ tall. I think that says it all. Below is a photo of Huxley, his wife and son. Also, just for comparison’s sake I am posting a detail of a photo of a ‘gigantic grasshopper’ below. It was taken by edi wibowo and posted at commons.wikimedia.

Paranoia, the destroyer – Before I leave Margaret Truman and her book I thought I should give you a quote which reminds me of a Kinks song. Let me set the stage: Kennedy met Khrushchev in Vienna, Later Khrushchev sent Jacqueline Kennedy some gifts including a mongrel dog named Puschinka as a gift for Caroline. “…the Secret Service was understandably suspicious of Pushinka. For all anyone knew, she might have an electronic bug implanted in her tail. Before the dog could be admitted to the White House, she had to undergo a security check. Fortunately, she turned out to be clean.”

It may not be a sleeve dog, but… The fashion for owning small dogs was clearly popular in the late 18th to early 19th century in Japan – much as it is today in the West. Below is a painting by Shungyō (春暁) in the collection of the British Museum. It appears to date from 1789-95. The dog does not appear to be a pekingnese because its tail does not curl back on itself.

There is a Chinese plate in the British Museum dating from ca. 1735-45. The museum describes its decoration as being in the European style. There is a pekingese in the center with various birds along the edge with and overall diaper pattern. But it is the dog which I found most striking. Was this plate exported to Europe in the early 18th century? If so, it must have seemed quite an exotic oddity.

A gruesome, gory ghost story, but what is it? There is a Kuniyoshi print of Okada Magodayu Toyonari (岡田孫太夫豊成) slaying a dog possessed by the spirit of a monk. Supposedly Toyonari is one of the 47 loyal retainers of the Chushingura, but even here… In any case, I don’t have the slightest what the story of this print is. It seems to me the dog gets the worst of it and the spirit is basically unfazsed. If anyone out there who doesn’t contribute to or swear by Wikipedia knows the true story please contact me. Thanks.

So many unanswered questions, so many bizarre images – Kuniyoshi was known for his warrior prints. Here is #23 of one of his Chushingura series showing Katsude Shinemon Taketata holding a lantern over a dog which looks like it just came out of a clown car at the circus. Even the dog looks like an afterthought and seems created in a different style – a painterly, freer, less hard-edged style – and even as though it was created by a different hand. Perhaps the text explains what’s happening here, but it is way beyond my abilities to read it. All I can do is show it to you. When or if they answer is ever made clear I will share it.

There is an English painting from ca. 1790 in the Metropolitan Museum of Art attributed to George Morland (ジョージ・モーランド: 1763-1804) showing performing dogs dancing before a mother and child and two boys.

www.metmuseum.org. (Below is a close up of 3 of the dogs.)

And then there is the dog’s ruffled collar – How long have humans been dressing up their dogs. Well, let’s see, dogs were domesticated some [fill in the blank] years ago and at some point someone’s cave outfit fell on a poor mutt and the whole group laughed. “Boy, that gives me an idea, they must have thought.” And in time someone must have thought there was money to be made in designing clothes for pets and voila! Not to mention all of the home spun fashions. The proof of this hypothesis is everywhere. Just look at these examples. The one on the left was posted at commons.wikimedia by Plepl and the one on the right by amandarydell.

Inu hariko 犬張子 – Papier mâché dogs: Frédéric says these are talismans used to protect “…the birth and health of children, used mainly during the Edo period. It originated with another, quite similar talisman, Inubako (dog-box). It was customary to write the kanji character for dog (inu) on the forehead of children to keep them from falling ill. Today it is a toy, sometimes displayed during the festival for little girls…”

This is from the collection of the Brooklyn Museum.

Detail from a Buncho (文調: fl. 1765-92) print.

Below is a Kuniyoshi print from ca. 1850-52. It shows Inue Shinbei Masashi 犬江親兵衛仁 from the History of the Eight Dogs of Satomi. On his robes are inu hariko.

A little history of a select few East Asian dogs – According to Sandra and Harry Choron “The Shiba Inu can be traced back to Japan’s Joumon period (10,000 to 300 B.C.). She is the oldest Japanese breed and is also the smallest of the Japanese spitz breeds. The Shiba Inu we see today is the product of crossing the Shinshu Shiba, Mino Shiba, and Sanin Shiba, all from different regions of Japan.”

Of the Pekingese the Chorons say “…dates back 4000 years. She was the imperial dog of China and was believed to ward off evil spirits. Chinese commoners had to bow to this toy dog, and Chinese emperors were buried with them with the hope that they would serve as protection in the afterlife. The theft of one of these dogs was punishable by death.”

Julien Fielding in his Discovering World Religions at 24 Frames Per Second states that in December 1936 the Shiba inu was “…designated a ‘precious natural product of the Japanese nation.’ ” Another credible source says it is 1937. Yet a third date, 1932, appears in Laura Payton’s book devoted to this dog. The truth lies in there somewhere – that is, if there is any such thing as the Truth. I suspect in this case there is, but as yet I haven’t the slightest how to figure it out.

Payton credits the efforts to preserve this and other breeds to Saito Hirokichi starting in 1928. According to Payton there are 6 breeds of dogs in Japan. However, the Shiba is the only one not named after a geographical location.

The Howell Book of Dogs by Liz Palika says that World War II almost brought the Shiba inu to extinction, but that it was saved by a concerted effort after the war ended. The author doesn’t say why or how it came so close to extinction.

Brett Walker in The Lost Wolves of Japan says that “Prior to the early twentieth century, the categories of canine remained diverse and dependent on social situations and ecological contexts; wolves (ōkami), sick wolves (byōrō), mountain dogs (yamainu), honorable dogs (oinu), big dogs (ōinu), wild dogs (yaken), bad dogs (akuken), village dogs (sato inu), domesticated dogs (kai inu), and hunting dogs all loped across the boundaries of status and of occupational, religious, and regional understandings of the categories of canine.” All of this began to change with the increased use of the Linnaean system in the early 20th c. This was at least eight decades after the methods of Linnaeus had been introduced for botanical and other zoological taxonomies.

A man and his dog – In Ueno Park in Tokyo is a famous statue of Saigo Takamori (1827-77). He helped lead the revolt which overthrew the Tokugawa shogunate. In the Kodansha Encyclopedia entry it says that this statue “…shows him as a man of the people, dressed casually and with his favorite dog at his side.” That’s all I know about it so far, but if I find out more about the dog I will update this entry. Below are two images. The first is a photo of the statue posted at commons.wikimedia by Arabatibabateke. The second one is a garish print by Kunitoshi (1847-99) and now in the Smithsonian collection.

A few more oddities – In the 1871 publication of Once a Week, volume 25, there is an article called ‘A Few Words on Dogs and Their Diet’. The author says that huskies eat fish and like it because that is what their masters feed them. Dogs in the wine regions eat grapes. “In many vine-growing countries, the dogs seem unable to resist an apparently unnatural taste for grapes; and they do so much damage to vineyards, that in Bordeaux the gardes champetres are authorized to kill every canine vagrant found amidst the vines, unless he is duly muzzled; and miniature gallows may be seen in all directions, with the unhappy victims suspended by the neck.” So much for grape eating mutts. The author goes on to tell us that many dogs like strawberries because they are sweet. “Dogs that do not delight in sugar and confectionery are comparatively rare.”

In time the author describes the so-called sleeve dog: “The sleeve- dog — apparently the name by which it is known in China — is a degenerated, long- legged variety of pug, rigidly kept on low diet, and never allowed to run about on the ground ; they are kept very much on the top of a ‘kang’ or stove bed-place, and not allowed to run about on the ground, as it is supposed that if they run on the ground they will derive strength from the ground and be able to grow large. Their food is much restricted, and consists chiefly of boiled rice.” How East Asian of them! But wait… it gets even better. The article goes on to mentioned that the most prized of these dogs in Japan are the smaller ones who have had their growth stunted by saké. Oh… and yes, they have a particular dislike of foreigners. Saké will do that sometimes.

Tickling her fancy… – Anyone who has looked at my posts previously knows that I don’t stay within narrow bounds. There are far to many similarities between what happens in one culture and another, in one age and another, in one household and another. Rarely do I try to draw a direct connection because rarely do I think there is one. Generally, I think it is only a matter of human nature repeating itself. That is why I think I would be totally remiss if I didn’t show you one of my favorite images dealing with dogs. It is by Fragonard (フラゴナール: 1732-1806), one of my favorite artists on so many levels. It shows a young woman and her long-tailed dog frolicking in her boudoir. It has nothing to do with the Zodiac, it has nothing to do with Japan or woodblock prints, but… It has everything to do with the core of human nature and Art – with a capital A.

I found the painting at commons.wikipedia posted by Anagoria. The original is in the Alte Pinakothek in Munich. Note that it was painted around the same time Harunobu was creating his brilliant woodblock prints.

You are not going to believe me, but I don’t like Fragonard for any lascivious reasons – although that would be hard to tell judging from the appearance of the painting shown above. I like – NO! make that LOVE Fragonard because he was one of the greatest and most facile painters who ever lived. He ranks right up there with Rembrandt, Titian, Goya, Velazquez, Vermeer and Hals in my book. (I didn’t name all of my favorites, but you should get the idea.) However, now that I have tried to make that clear – you need to understand that I could stand in front of a portrait by him for an eternity and never notice the time or others going by – and now that I have tried to make that clear, I will lead you into the next dog-related images which I must say are definitely of a crude, rude and prurient nature.

One more point: When Fragonard was once asked how he was able to paint such beautiful women I think he used a rather crude French expression that translates loosely as “I paint them with my sex.” The literal translation is a lot cruder, but that is the gist. Renoir said basically the same thing 100 years later. I’m not sure, but I think it was Diderot, the encyclopedist, who once said that Fragonard’s painted the most exquisite whores in France – or some such thing.

There is a tamer and far more Japanese counterpart to the Fragonard painting shown above. It is by Toraji Ishikawa (石川寅治: 1875-1964) and was considered scandalous in its day. Toraji struck every nerve of conservative/militaristic/reactionary Japan when he came out with a series of large female nudes engaged in everyday activities – activities that many women went through only these women were naked. Without sounding lecherous, I love these prints and was lucky enough over the years to have owned and sold quite a few of them. Most recently I sold a keyblock print for “Sound of a Bell” from 1934. Now that I look back at it I notice that it features a sleeve dog, a pekingese and I see it now so differently because of this post. Below is an image of the finished print. It may not be Fragonard, but it is damned close – in my book.

Doing it doggie-style in Japan – Anyone who knows anything about Japanese woodblock prints knows about their huge production, mainly anonymous, of shunga (春画). Shunga can be translated as porn, porno, pornography, erotica or more literally as ‘spring picture’. While most of the time it was banned that didn’t seem to be a deterrent to its production and distribution. Avidly collected by Westerners – at least in the last 60 years, it is here and it is never going away. While often it was produced by competent artists its main purpose was not artistic. It was mainly lewd and served the same purpose Playboy magazines served for teenage boys of the 1950s and 60s. The difference is that Japanese shunga left far less to the imagination.

These erotic prints shared certain things in commons: 1) Women almost always – close to 100% of the time – played the subordinate role and 2) the male genitalia was often exaggerated in an almost cartoonish fashion. (First viewers of Japanese shunga often gasp. After that many snicker while others express disgust.) One thing they rarely did was display acts of bestiality, but this is my section on dogs in Japan and there are a couple examples which show male dogs in the act with human women. Rare, but not unheard of. (I wish I had a thousand dollars for every guy I have ever talked to who has claimed he saw the donkey act in Tijuana.) That said, now for the ADULT WARNING! DON’T CLICK ON THE LINK BELOW IF YOU ARE UNDERAGED OR EASILY OFFENDED MORALLY! I didn’t create these images. I am merely the messenger.

http://www.printsofjapan.com/Beastiality_in_Japan.htm

Just so you know that my mind is not always in the gutter, there is another painting of a dog which is among my all-time favorites. It is by Giacomo Balla (ジャコモ・バッラ: 1871-1953) and hangs in the Albright Knox Museum in Buffalo, New York. Entitled “Dynamism of a Dog on a Leash” (鎖に繋がれた犬のダイナミズム) from 1912 shows a woman walking her dachshund (ダックスフンド). Of course, to be fair, the dog is probably near the gutter. So, I guess you could say that my mind is closer to the gutter than not when it comes to this masterpiece. You be the judge.

Balla was a member of the Futurists who tried to portray movement in their art. I think he succeeded terrifically. There is wit and humor here. The dog has at least eight tails and innumerable legs. I wish we could know what Einstein would have made of this painting relative to his theories of time and space.

Taking a dump – One of the world’s truly great images of a dog doing what a dog does is from a Rembrandt etching from 1633. The subject of the print is The Good Samaritan. In the lower right, adding to the realism of the scene is a defecating dog. Kenneth Clark in his Rembrandt and the Italian Renaissance wrote: “Another symbol, even more repulsive occurs in his etching of the Good Samaritan… dated in eh fourth state 1633. It is Rembrandt’s dogmatic sermon against the frivolity of elegance. The forms are not simply ungraceful; they are reduced to clouts and clods. The figures hang from one another like a string of potatoes, and their sequence of lumpish shapes comes most sharply into focus with the dog, who is there to remind us that if we are to practise the Christian virtues of charity and humility, we must extend our sympathy to all natural functions, even those which disgust us. It is interesting that almost the only person to recognise the meaning of this etching was Goethe, in his essay Rembrandt als Denker. As a matter of fact, the dog seems to be an after-thought, for it does not appear in the small oil painting in the Wallace Collection, which I believe to be an authentic modello for the etching; and scholars jealous for Rembrandt’s good name have tried to maintain that it was added by a pupil.”

An annus horribilus (as the Queen would say) – Back in 1994 I was having a terrible year. People and pets around me were either dying or in near-death conditions – from the youngest to the oldest. Then I got it, meningitis, and I too thought I was going to die. All of this happened around the time I was planning a great party for the 10th anniversary of my art gallery in Kansas City. To celebrate it I gave out 4′ lengths of the best black velvet I could find to about 18 different artists who I trusted to come up with something spectacular. I made it clear that although I had paid for the velvet and was paying for a spectacular party they would be the sole owners of their own, individual pieces. They came through spectacularly.

The first painting – some were sculptures – arrived as I was just beginning to recover from the meningitis. The doorbell rang and it took me at least 5 minutes to get to the door – something which normally would take me a few seconds. It was Nora Othic and her contribution to the show. I was too bent over and immersed in pain to see what it looked like. Five minutes later I had made it back to my couch. We talked for a few minutes and then I asked her to turn the painting toward me so I could see it and see it I did. Now first I have to tell you that under normal conditions I have a laugh which can clear a room. She turned the painting toward me and despite the pain I started laughing so hard that I made her turn it toward the wall again. In fact, I told her she had to or else she was going to kill me then and there. Below a large detail of Nora’s piece entitled The Toilet of Queenie. Queenie, who has since died was one of her pets at that time.

Notice the little flying puppies in the upper right just where little flying putti would be. Clever, eh?

I told Nora that I already knew the painting and within minutes – or probably what seemed like hours – I showed her the cover of a museum catalogue devoted to an exhibition of the paintings of Johann Liss who died in 1631 somewhere in his early 30s. Below is a part of that cover representing his Toilet of Venus.

The Black Velvet Show was such a success that the Kansas City Star ran a couple of articles about it. One appeared on a Sunday, the most vaunted of arts coverage almost exclusively reserved for institutional stuff at that time, and there was a color reproduction of Nora’s painting on the front page of that section. Nora said that ever since Queenie appeared in color in the Star she was impossible to deal with.

Saving the best for last – Well, it’s not necessarily ‘the best’, but it is a winner. This gold and silver dog pennant now in the Louvre was created in Susa in ca. 3,300 to 3,000 B.C. It is a metallurgical marvel. Only 1.4 cm high it combines many different techniques. The body of the figure was cast using the lost-wax method. While the metal was still hot the ears and tail were pulled outward and extra material was used to get the tail to bring it back over the animal’s back. The loop was soldered with copper and gold – the first time this was known to have been done. It may not be Japanese, but it sure is spectacular.

I guess I am not quite finished yet. While this may not have anything to do with Japan, the Japanese and their dogs this next part does deal with a particular fascination of mine – words and their origins. If only I could talk to you about Japanese etymologies, but alas… I can’t. However, I can pass along a few thoughts about words in English – and occasionally in a few other European languages, but not well. Let’s take a look at the word ‘dog’. Where in the hell did this word come from? It first showed up in Old English as docga in about the 11th century, but didn’t spread into more generalized usage until two centuries later. And it wasn’t until the 16th century that it began to overtake the word ‘hound’. Not only that but “It has no known relatives of equal antiquity in other European languages…” However, in the 16th and 17th centuries it did begin to spread into other European languages, but like so many other words it morphed somewhat: In German a deutsche dogge is a great dane, an englische dogge is a mastiff; in French dogue is a mastiff and in Swedish dogg is ‘bulldog’.

Joseph T. Shipley in The Origins of English Words notes that “In the Bible the dog is mentioned 18 times, the cat not once.”

Please remember no post is ever finished. I know it is a lot to ask you to look at something you have read before again, but you can never tell when I am going to add something new. Not even I am able to anticipate that. So be patient with me and try to learn to endure. I am doing the best I can. Thanks!

For more information about Japanese prints and culture please visit our other web site at http://www.printsofjapan.com/.

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From: Sreenadh OG <sreesog@...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:22 am
Subject: Not quite the Zodiac – Part Two: The tiger – tora

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Source: http://printsofjapan.wordpress.com/2010/04/15/not-quite-the-zodiac-part-two-the-tiger-tora-%E5%AF%85/
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Not quite the Zodiac – Part Two: The tiger – tora – 寅

Filed under: Art,Buddhism,Chinese mythology,Japanese literature,Japanese mythology,Japanese woodblock prints,Kabuki,Noh theater — vegder @ 7:59 pm
Tags: Hokusai, Korea, Kunichika, Kunisada, Kuniyoshi, Nihongi, tigers, Yoshitoshi

Like all of my posts I pick a subject and then let it take me where it will. Something like hang-gliding on capricious air currents. That said, here is the start of a beautiful journey using a downright silly image of a man dressed as a tiger (sort of) doing some kind of gleeful dance that looks like an extremely bad Irish jig. Or, maybe like a baton-thrusting, high-stepping leader of a marching band… This image is taken from a print by Kunisada.

Tigers were not indigenous to Japan so any representations of them might seem a bit capricious or odd, but dancing tigers are somewhat over the edge… unless, of course, you considered that 1) the artist Kunisada wast so damned skilled and 2) immediate source of this prancing figure may have come from a whimsical moment in a Kabuki play. [Note that in Nepal there was the tiger festival, the Bagh Jatra, where "...worshippers danced disguised as tigers."]

Tora is the 3rd sign of the Chinese zodiac and traditionally represents 3 AM to 5 AM in the Japanese day of 12 2 hour hours. Directionally it is presented as east to northeast. Although the sign of the Dragon is considered it counterpart – which can be viewed as either hostile or cooperative – it stands for 7 AM to 9 AM east to southeast. Needham noted in a chapter on Chinese alchemy that “In the cosmological tradition the status of dragon and tiger as abstractions is ambiguous. They embody Yin and Yang emergent from their opposites, but early sources differ as to whether the Dragon is Yang within Yin or Yin within Yang.”

“The day of the ox was deemed propitious for the cutting of fingernails and the day of the tiger for the cutting of toenails.” Astrologically whenever the element metal is linked to the tiger fish are poisonous. (This info is provided by T. Volker in The Animal in Far Eastern Art…)

Volker says that originally the tiger represented the feminine half of the Chinese universe, but at some point was assigned its polar opposite.

Later Needham later refers to the Masculine element as Yang, hence Tiger. The Feminine is Yin, Dragon. “The Realised Dragon is the quicksilver within cinnabar. It is born when the solar seminal essence (jih ching) of mature Yang pours down and its realised chhi enters the earth. It is named mercury. The Realised Tiger is the white silver within black lead.” Jih ching is 日晶. Below is a detail from a piece of Spanish cinnabar posted at commons.wikimedia by Parent Géry. Droplets of liquid mercury can be seen dotting its surface.

A curious thought came to me after I posted the image shown above: If someone had shown it to me cold without any reference points I would have thought that it was photo taken by the Hubble telescope.

In ancient China

Merrily Baird explains how the Tiger and Dragon can be counted as counterparts. “In the traditional cosmology of China, the tiger is one of the Four Sacred Creatures, representing autumn, the western direction [notice the contradiction to information provided above - both work], the wind, and the color white. It is thus the compliment of the dragon, which represents the east, the spring season, and water. The interaction of the two – the play of wind and water – is thought vital for creating the nurturing weather that makes soil fertile and crops prosper.”

Archeologists have found ancient burial sites which just barely begin to reveal the mind-set of their occupants. One such site is believed to be that of a wu or shaman who operated as a conjurer of psychopomps or (soul) animal vehicles which can form a bridge to the supernatural world. Among the images found in this site are believed to be those of dragons, tigers and deer.

“When the tiger is five hundred years old its fur is thought to become white and when it is a thousand years old it goes to inhabit the moon with the hare and the toad. When it is 500 years old there appears on its forehead the character wang (Jap. Ō ), king. A white millennial tiger is also said to inhabit the Milky Way. (Volker) Wang is 王.

Berthold Laufer (1874-1934) wrote in his Jade: a Study in Chinese Archaeology and Religion, first published in 1912, said that “The West forms the only exception, being worshipped under the sign of a tiger, the first and oldest example in China of a personal image of a deity.” All other deities were represented by geometrical forms. The heavens were seen in a circle, the earth was represented by a square, etc. Laufer also tells us that a Chinese dictionary from ca. 100 A.D. “…an auspicious jade being the design of a tiger [was] used to mobilize an army.” ¶ It was common practice to bury the dead, the rich and powerful dead, with jade objects. “…the tiger-jade was buried in the grave at the right side of the corpse, i.e. facing west in the grave. ¶ Laufer cites Leopold de Saussure (1866-1926) who believed that “…the tiger as symbol of the autumn is Orion.” Saussure told the story of Huang-ti who tamed tigers and then trained them to use in his wars against his enemies. Hence, tigers became associated with the concept of the warrior himself. ¶ Laufer adds that tigers mate in the fall and the female gestates for seven months. The males tend to be 7′ long and 7 is a yang number reaffirming its masculinity. [I am not sure I buy this, but that's what he said.] The tiger is a solar animal (yang wu), lord of the mountains (shan kün) and king of all the quadrapeds. Born in late May, the beginning of summer according to Laufer’s accounting, is why it is a zodaical sign indicating the onset of that season. “We [also] now understand why in the Han period the tiger symbol was used as a token of command over the army.” ¶ A 2nd century A.D. account said that tigers could chase away demons. Another story tells of the king of Wu (513-494 B.C.) who was buried with precious swords. Placed as a guardian on top of his burial mound was a stone tiger. In time an emperor passed by the tomb and decided to take the swords but as he was about to dig up the grave site a menacing tiger appeared at the top of the tumulus. The emperor struck at it with his sword, but hit at the last moment the tiger jumped away and the sword hit the stone effigy instead. Laufer says “…the mark is still visible”, but the swords are no longer there. He credits a different grave-robbing people for this. ¶ Laufer tells of a Chinese bronze in a Japanese collection which he has seen which shows a child suckling at the teat of a tiger. The story: The child was born of an illicit liaison between a man of a princely house and a princess of another. After the birth the grandmother ordered that infant be taken out and abandoned in the marshes. There it was found by a tigress which nurtured it. Later the prince of Yun, the child’s father, was out hunting and saw his son with the tiger. When he confronted the mother she admitted the whole thing and the child was retrieved and given the name “Suckled by a Tigress”. He grew up to play an important role within his kingdom sometime around the end of the 8th century B.C.

A powder made from the ashes of its skin were thought to ward off diseases while its nails and its whiskers could drive away evil.

The Tiger vs. the Dragon: A Cosmic Smackdown

“The dragon and the tiger are at enmity, and if a tiger’s bones are thrown into a ‘dragon’s well,’ rain will follow within three days…”

Japan’s oldest reference to a tiger – okay, maybe the second oldest

The Nihongi (日本紀) is the second oldest chronicle from Japan and was written as an historical document covering the time up to 697 A.D. It was completed on July 1, 720. Many of its accounts relate to Japanese/Korean events. One such example is that of Kashiwade no Omi (膳臣), sometimes called Kashihade no Omi – (almost every Japanese name seems to have more than one variant making research for the novice incredibly difficult) - and his sojourn on Korean peninsula. In one he and his family have landed on the shore of Paekche, an early Korean kingdom. His son wanders off and disappears. It was a dreadful night because there was a snowstorm. In the morning Kashiwade only found the tracks of a tiger which he believed had eaten his son. In W. G. Aston’s translation Kashiwade had strapped on his sword and armor and went out searching. “Coming to a cliff, he drew his sword, and said: ‘I, have respectfully taken charge of the silken threads and cords, with weary toil by land and sea, my hair combed by the wind, my bath the rain, with the grass for my mat and thorns for my carpet, came hither, all because I loved my child, and wished to make him succeed to his father’s office. Thou (too), O Dread Deity! has parental love as one feature of thy character. Now to-night my child disappeared. Following up his traces, I sought for him as far as this place, and without fear of losing my life I intend to have my revenge. For this I have come. Upon this that tiger advanced before me and opened his mouth in order to devour me. But I, Hasuhi, swiftly stretched out my left hand and seized that tiger by the tongue, while with my right I stabbed it to death. Then I stripped off its skin and returned with it.” (Below, on the left, is a detail of most of a print by Kuniyoshi showing Kashiwade no Hanoshi slaying the tiger. Too bad the tongue part isn’t featured. To the right of that is another version by the same artist. In this one our hero is prying open the jaws of the tiger. This print is a promised gift to the British Museum from Professor Arthur Miller. (© Trustees of the British Museum)

In another part of the Nihongi there is the story of Kuratsukuri no Tokushi (鞍作得志) who befriended a tiger and from whom he learned to turn barren mountains green, make yellow earth into clear water “…all manner of wonderful arts to many to enumerate. Moreover, the tiger bestowed on him his needle, saying: ‘Be watchful! be watchful and let no one know! Treated with this there is no disease which may not be cured.’ ” And it was true. “Tokushi always kept the needle concealed in a pillar. Afterwards the tiger broke the pillar and ran away, taking the needle with him.” The people of Koryö – another Korean kingdom – “…hearing that Tokushi wished to return, put him to death by poison.” If only he still had that needle. By the way, as best I can tell Kuratsukuri means ‘saddle maker’.

In one of Aston’s footnotes he quotes Giles as saying that any official who wears a garment made from a tiger skin “…will be a terror to evil-doers, while as a private individual he will have no enemies.”

Motoori Norinaga (本居宣長 1730-1801) wrote: “In the Nihongi and Manyōshū the tiger and the wolf are also spoken of as kami.” In the entry on Shinto in Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics from 1921 it states: “Animals may receive worship for their own sakes as terrible or uncanny beings. It is for this reason that the tiger, the serpent, and the wolf are called Kami. But they have no temples and no organized cult.”

Now for the oldest reference – okay, partial reference to a tiger: Killing the nue

Large detail of Yoshitoshi’s Ii no Hayata slaying the nue on the left. Hokusai’s version – or one of them. The orange ground and the red of the blood are my addition.

In 1886 William Anderson wrote about the slaying of the nue in a description of prints and drawings in the British Museum. An emperor is ill and every night a strange bird lands on the roof of the palace and sings a strange song. The year is 1153 and the hero-to-be is Minamoto no Yorimasa (源頼政: 1105-80), a 5th generation descendant of the killer, Yorimitsu, of the monster, Shuten-doji. Night comes, the bird lands and starts singing and Yorimasa shoots an arrow into the darkened night but in the direction the sound is coming from. There is a loud thud – or plop, if you like. Yorimasa and his warrior/assistant, Ii no Hayata, rush over and the latter finishes off this bizarre creature. Naturally the Emperor is miraculously cured at that very moment and Yorimasa is rewarded with a special sword and a beautiful woman is thrown in for good measure. Not bad for a shot in the dark, eh?

In Basil Hall Chamberlain’s translation of the Kojiki (古事記) it says that the Deity-of-Eight-Thousand-Spears goes a wooing. The object of his affection is the Princess of Nuna-kaha. He sings a song on his arrival which reads in part: “While I am standing [here], the nuye sings on the green mountain…” He then describes the other birds singing including the cock’s crow and finishes with “Oh the pity that [the] birds should sing! Oh! these birds! Would that I could beat them till they were sick!” In a footnote Chamberlain explains this irksome behavior. The deity in his haste is frustrated that he is unable to enter the princess’s chamber and as everyone knows that when the birds start announcing the coming of dawn that is usually the time when lovers sneak away. “Would that he could kill these unwelcome harbingers of day, and bring back the darkness!” Chamberlain then gives us a description of the nuye – if it is to be believed: “…it has the head of a monkey, the body of a racoon-faced dog, the tail of a serpent, and the hands (sic) and feet of a tiger.”

Of course, I can’t prove this, but… according to tradition Minamoto no Yoshitsune, one of Japan’s greatest heroes, was destined for greatness because he was born in the hour of the tiger, in the month of the tiger, in the year of the tiger. Clearly his path was made for him. Below are two examples from the collection at the British Museum created in the 19th century honoring this man. Both show him as a young boy. The first one is by Taito II is a surimono and we can assume that it was created for a Year of the Tiger, which would make it most likely to have been done in 1830 or 1842. 30 would be my first guess. (This short little section was added on September 23, 2011.)

Notice that Yoshitsune’s sword is sheathed in a tiger skin. Animal sheaths were considered more prestigious and tiger skins were thought to be the best. Only the most important figures possessed them. And, like all other things Japanese, this type of sheath had a special name – shirizaya-no-tachi or 尻鞘の太刀.

The second example is from a well-known legend from Yoshitsune’s childhood when he was said to have been trained in martial arts by tengu. It comes from a triptych from the 4th month of 1858 and is by Kuniyoshi.

Take ni tora – Bamboo and Tiger – 竹に寅

W. R. van Gulik tells us “In Japan the tiger portrayed among bamboostalks in the wind is known as take ni tora, ‘tiger in bamboo’. This representation is generally taken to symbolize that even most powerful of terrestrial forces, namely the king of all animals, had to yield to the forces of nature. As such, the tiger in the take ni tora representation is also said to be identified with the wind itself, symbolizing as it were the rustling wind in the bamboo grove. The tiger may appear in combination with the dragon, the latter portrayed among the clouds or merely symbolized by falling rain. This representation is called uchū no tora, ‘tiger in rain’, once again symbolizing through the image of the greatest celestial animal strength and that of the greatest terrestrial animal strength, the ultimate superiority of the elements of nature over and above the earthly forces.”

In a play, Battles of Coxinga, by Chikamatsu there is a passage which relates directly to the image shown below. Its hero, Watōnai [see a section further down this page] says: “They say that when a tiger roars a wind rises. I’m sure that this storm must be the work of some wild beast. Yang Hsiang, one of the twenty-four examples of filial piety, escaped danger from a ferocious tiger because of his devotion to his parents.”

In 1889 a book on Japanese art by Huish said that the tiger “…is very often depicted in a storm cowering beneath bamboos, signifying the insignificant power of the mightiest of beasts as compared to that of the elements. When merely seen in connection with bamboos, it is so because its power is such that it can transverse a thousand miles at a stride, even through a bamboo forest.”

Merrily Baird on “A tiger sheltering in bamboo. The tiger is said to be the only animal capable of penetrating bamboo thickets, and the pairing of the two is said to represent the weak giving shelter to the strong.”

Tigers and the wind -

This Kuniyoshi image of Yoko defending his father against a tiger is shown courtesy of the British Museum. Notice the prominent display of the wind. (© Trustees of the British Museum)

Isn’t life waterfull?

One of my favorite Japanese prints showing a tiger- with of without a waterfall – is by Kunisada and dates from about 1820. Shown below on the right courtesy of the British Museum. (© Trustees of the British Museum) It is entitled Tora no asobi (tiger at play) in the cartouche in the upper right. This animal certainly looks like it is enjoying itself.

It’s a wrap

Tigers don’t show up often as design motifs on Japanese robes. This is true especially on women’s clothing. You would think they would considering the tiger’s significant relationship to the cosmos as a plus, but they don’t. For birds they do, and the same for flowers and bats, but not tigers. However, in the example shown below from an 1873 print by Kunichika the tiger is there in spades. You don’t even have to look hard to find it. Not only that it gives the appearance of staring the viewer down and winning at it. That is, if the viewer is a child or an adult who isn’t any taller than, say, 4′.

For men, on the other hand, especially warriors, the tiger skin is something to flaunt. Proof of one’s rank, valor, fearlessness and – dare I say it – virility. Yes, I dare. It’s my blog. But back to the topic: If you look at the image below your first thought might be that the warrior is struggling with a tiger in the heat of battle. But, au contraire. The tiger is long dead and the warrior is using his skin as a shield against the (slings and) arrows coming from his very human enemies.

This image comes from the monumental series of prints produced by Kuniyoshi illustrating many of the scenes from the Suikoden which tells the tales of the heroes of the Water Margin (水滸伝). According to the original Katsuenra Genshōshichi – the Japanese name – grabbed a blue fox skin to defend himself, but Kuniyoshi changed that to a tiger skin. Poetic license. His original Chinese name is Ruan Xiaoqi (阮小七).

Oda Nobunaga (織田信長: 1534-82), one of the great figures of Japanese history, during the building of his castle in Kyoto was described by a Jesuit this way: “He always strode around girded about with a tiger skin on which to sit and wearing rough and coarse clothing; following his example everyone wore skins and no-one dared to appear before him in court dress while building was still in progress.”

Man vs. Beast – Watōnai (和藤內) and the Tiger

Watōnai, a theatrical character is half Chinese on his father’s side and half Japanese on his mother’s. Even his name is a curious amalgamation: “…three characters representing ‘Japan,’ ‘China,’ and within respectively – is appropriate, if not too pat, for a hybrid individual…” His story is far too complex and convoluted to tell here – in its many versions. But one thing should be noted: he also was known as Coxinga. I mention this only because sometimes you will be looking at a print and the main character is called Watōnai while at other times it is Coxinga – one and the same fellow. Partially based on a real life person who wanted to conquer China (and perhaps Japan, too) Watōnai follows the path of the fantastic known to so many dramatic creations. On the stage Chikamatsu’s version succeeds where his historical counterpart failed. (Something like Romeo and Juliet living happily ever after.)

His honor and nationalism are quintessentially Japanese. When he and his mother are lost in a bamboo grove in China he is convinced it is Chinese foxes which have brought on their hardship. While in the grove Watōnai and his mother are set upon by a huge tiger. Watōnai struggled with tiger which was only subdued when his mother used a sacred charm which came from the shrine at Ise. “Watōnai! You were born in the Land of the Gods and you musn’t harm the body, hair and skin you received from them in a contest with a brute beast. Japan is far away, but the gods dwell in your body. Why shouldn’t this charm from the Great Shrine by the Isuzu River be effective now?” He accepts the charm, points it at the tiger and the rest is history – or, should I say, pure fiction. Later when challenged by a group of Chinese soldiers and struggles with their leader he shouts out: “You despise Japan as a small country, but are you not impressed with the martial art of the Japanese, which even a tiger fears?” Then the tiger and Watōnai join forces to overcome the Chinese.

When the Chinese soldiers were told to “Kill the old hag, too!” they were in for a bit of a surprise. “They make a beeline for her with flailing swords, but – a further sign of divine protection – the gods lend their strength to the tiger. It springs up, quivering, bares its teeth. It leaps with a fierce roar at the enemy…. They fling at the tiger their hunting spears, rough lances, and whatever else comes to hand, and slash with their swords. The tiger, possessed of divine strength, leaps about at will, snatching their swords in mid-air with his jaws and dashing them to splinters against the rocks. The glint of the blades scatters like a hail of jewels or slivers of ice.” Translated from Chikamatsu by Donald Keene.

Now, this may not seem to be related, but it is. There is a Japanese game very much like rock, paper, scissors called ken. There are several versions of it. One is fox-ken in which “…both hands are used to make more interesting gestures. In the tiger-ken (tora-ken), which seems to have been invented in Japan a short time after the fox-ken, the gestures are even more interesting, because the whole body is used. This ken probably arose through the popularity of Chikamatsu Monzaemon’s play Kokusenya gassen (The Battle of Coxinga, 1715). In this ken, the half-Japanese, half-Chinese hero Wutônai defeats the tiger (tora), which defeats Wutônai’s old mother (basama), who is in turn superior to Wutônai, her son.” All of this is that much more interesting because there were/are no tigers in the wild in Japan. (From: The Culture of Japan as Seen through Its Leisure)

Watōnai is fearlessly approaching a killer tiger. These two panels from a Kuniyoshi triptych are shown courtesy of the British Museum. (© Trustees of the British Museum)

In many accounts Watōnai says it would be unmanly to confront the tiger with a blade because blades from Japan are imbued with the power of the gods. Besides, the hero claims that he can lay low an elephant or demon with one blow of his fist, let alone a tiger.

Man vs. Beast – hand to claw combat

There is a song on the English rap album, The Streets, called The Irony of It All. It features two protagonists. One is Terry who says “I’m a law abider” and adds that “there’s nothing I like more than getting fired up on beer, and when the weekends here… to exercise my right to get paralytic and fight… [and] when geezers look at me funny [I] bounce ‘em round like bunnies…” “Good clean grief” he calls it and besides he ain’t no thief. Then there is Tim who tells us “I’m a criminal. In the eyes of society I need to be in jail for the choice of herbs I inhale.”

Now, I can’t tell you what it is about the partial image by Kuniyoshi shown below that reminds me of those lyrics, but they do. Imagine a scenario where an innocent pussy cat is minding his own business when along comes a brutish, testosterone driven he-man. Somewhat like the last lyrics spoken by Terry: “Why you cheeky little swine come here. I’m gonna batter you. Come here.” (Of course, ‘batter’ here is pronounced ‘battuh’.) But, alas, that’s not what this picture is about. It tells the story of Gyōja Bushō who is traveling in an area which has a man-eating tiger. It has already killed 25 men and there is no end in site. Bushō stops at a local inn and eats dinner and gets drunk. The innkeeper tells him of the loathsome beast and urges him to spend the night there because that is when the tiger goes on the hunt. Bushō only laughs and declares that he is afraid of nothing. As you might imagine these two brutes meet and in the struggle Bushō’s club is split into pieces when he hits a tree by mistake and he has nothing left to pummel the tiger with but his fists. Guess who won. Leave it to say that Bushō was declared a local hero.

In one Japanese version by Bakin (馬琴) all it took was a single blow of Bushō’s fist, but that was a re-write of the original. “…clutching the beast by the ruff with his left hand, Wu Song freed his right, big as an iron mallet, and with all his might began to pound. [¶] After sixty or seventy blows the tiger, blood streaming from its eyes, mouth, nose and ears, lay motionless, panting weakly. Wu Song got up and searched around under the pine tree until he found the stump of his broken staff. With this he beat the animal till it breathed no more.” Now that’s the Chinese version.

Gyōja Bushō is the Japanese name given to Wu Sung (武松) in the Chinese original of the story.

Above are two prints by Kuniyoshi. Both versions are probably based on that of Bakin’s one blow theory. These prints are promised gifts from Professor Arthur Miller to the British Museum. (© Trustees of the British Museum)

The Lady and the Tiger – and a really big fish, a couple more ladies and a dancing frog

Chinese tiger amalgams and variants

In The Classic of Mountains and Seas composed from the 3rd century B.C. to the 2nd century A.D. there is a whole menagerie of magical creatures. Many of these include tiger-like elements. #1: In a translation by Anne Birrell there is mountain called Cherrysunny which seems to be covered or littered with “…scarlet gold on its south face, and plenty of white gold on its north face. There is an animal on this mountain which looks like a horse, but it has a white head and stripes like a tiger, and a scarlet tail. It makes a noise like the crooning of a human being. Its name is the stag-silkworm. If you wear some of it in your belt, it will help you to have children and grandchildren.” #2: On Mount Floatjade is an animal “…which looks like a tiger, but it has the tail of an ox. It makes a noise like a dog’s bark. Its name is the hoggy. It eats humans.” #3: A river runs along a part of Mt. Prayerpass. Along the banks are tiger-crocodiles which make a noise like mandarin ducks. [I am not exactly clear from the description what makes them tiger-like, but the name alone made it too good not to mention here.] Tiger-crocodiles can be used to produce a treatment for piles and eating it can prevent abscesses. Another source translates this creature as a tiger-dragon. #4: At Mt. Bell is a monstrously huge osprey which “…looks like an eagle, but has black markings, a white head, a scarlet beak, and tiger claws. He makes a noise like a dawn goose. Whenever he appears, there will be a major war.” #5: On Mt. Carobriver is the Great God’s Garden of Peace where the “…deity Brave Raise resides… In appearance, this deity has a horse’s body and a human face, with tiger markings and bird wings.”

Above is a tiny detail from a Kuniyoshi print.

#6: At the Mound of Offspringline “…is the Great God’s City Here Below. The deity Land My presides over it. In appearance, he has a tiger’s body and nine tails, a human head and tiger claws. #7: On another mountain “There is an animal… which looks like a hone; it has a white body with a black tail, a single horn and the fangs and claws of a tiger…” #8: On Mt. Hookmy is an animal “…which has the appearance of a ram’s body and a human face; its eyes are under its armpits; it has tiger fangs and human nails. It makes a noise like a baby. Its name is the goat-owl. It eats humans.” #9: At Mt. Northhubbub is an animal that “…looks like a tiger, but has a white body, a dog’s head, a horse’s tail, and the long bristles of a sow.” #10: At Mt. Hollowberry there is an animal “…which looks like an ox but has the markings of a tiger. It makes a noise like a chiming bell. Its name is the ling-ling. When it cries, it calls itself. Whenever it appears there will be a major flood…” #11: “There is an animal… which looks like a fox and it has nine tails and nine heads, and tiger claws…” #12: A bird with a white head and rat’s feet with tiger claws. #13: On the south side of Mt. Cucumber is what appears to be a human only it happens to have the tail of a tiger. When it comes and goes there is a flash of bright light. #14: The Alligator Siege deity lives on Mt. Highhorse. “He has the appearance of a human face, ram’s horns, and tiger’s claws.” He, also, is accompanied by flashes of light. #15: The human-like inhabitants of the land of Venomtwist are striped like tigers. #16: There is a god-human called Sky Cry with a human’s face, a tiger’s body and ten tails. There are many more examples, but I would think you get the point by now. To be fair, you probably got it back at the 3rd or 4th example.

In Japanese lore there is a nine-tailed fox as there was in China along with several variations on the nine-tailed tiger. This cannot be a coincidence. Something else must be at work here. Besides some scholars believe that nine is the most propitious number. As I recall at the Nelson Art Gallery there is a ceiling from a Chinese temple with nine dragons representing the nine levels or circles of heaven.

Below is a detail of just such a creature, the fox, from a print by Kuniyoshi. It was sent to me at my request from my great friend Mike. At some point in the future I hope to get to a post on foxes as though it hasn’t all been said before, but for now you will have to settle with this example.

When the Japanese adopted the premier creature, the dragon, as their own they dressed it in their own imagination. It came to be described as having the legs and claws of the tiger.

Perhaps you scoff!

Perhaps you find the creatures in the section above a bit too fantastic. Well, are they? Perhaps the Chinese imagination was just way ahead of its time. Back in 2003 there was an article in the New York Times about genetic engineering of animals. It discussed the soon to be marketed zebra fish which has been altered by the addition of a gene from coral which made them fluoresce and glow in the dark. Below is an image of an unmodified, ordinary example posted at commons.wikimedia byKristof vt. After that is a posting by www.glofish.com at the same site of genetically engineered zebra fish.

A few years before that there was the case of the artist who got a lab to insert a jellyfish into a rabbit so that it would glow in the dark. I don’t have access to that rabbit so I doctored an image taken from Kelson at commons.wikimedia and the results are shown below. Note that I could have added tiger fangs dripping blood and maybe some fish scales or a curly-cue pigs tail, but I think the image says what needs to be said. And who hasn’t heard of the jackalope? (By the way, no animals were hurt in the production of this post… by me!) What’s next? A new and improved Vegder? Wouldn’t hurt.

Who’s your daddy? Not Hoosier daddy!

Many people are frightened by the prospects of genetically engineered crops and who can blame them? But perhaps that is just the beginning. H. G. Wells thought about such things back in 1896 when he wrote The Island of Dr. Moreau. What would it be like if we could mix different species? Or put the body part of one animal onto or into a completely different animal? Wait a sec! What about pig to human transplants? We already have them. And what does that do to keeping kosher for those who want to keep kosher?

We can say conclusively that none of these issues were uppermost in Kuniyoshi’s mind when he created his tiger-headed men like those shown below. But then what? What could he have been thinking?

Next thing you know you’ll be telling me that tigers and lions can’t mate

This morning I was listening to an interview with Tippi Hedren of “The Birds” fame about her preserve, Shambala, a home for big cats. She mentioned that they had a liger. Half lion, half tiger. It would seem that the lion is always the father. This was news to me so I looked it up and found a wonderful image – see below – posted at commons.wikimedia by Алексей Шилин. I also looked it up and found that in a new National Geographic publication for kids that they didn’t consider it natural and that generally lions and tigers would not mate and according to them probably shouldn’t. Any off-spring, no matter how adorable they are, tend to have all kinds of congenital problems. But, at least, now I know that there is such a creature: The tiger, a sign of the zodiac mixed with the lion, the guardian of Buddha. Who would have thought?

How to separate the men from the boys… errrr… I mean tigers

Kuniyoshi had a genius for creating new worlds. If it could be imagined he could draw. Such is the case of his anthropomorphic tiger seen below. Also, notice how he has used his tail as a sash or belt to help support what looks like a sheathed sword and a pouch. He is wearing a blue and white bandana commonly seen tied around the heads of day laborers. He is carrying a pole across his shoulders, probably bamboo, balancing packages on both ends. But the finest touch – he is either getting a light for his pipe from the man next to him or he is giving him one.

In the Outlines of Chinese Symbolism and Art Motives by C. A. S. Williams it says: “The written symbol for this animal consists of the radical hu (虍), which is the representation of the tiger’s stripes, while the form jên (儿), man, below, implies that the beast rears up on its hind legs like a human being erect.”

Supposedly, but not necessarily true

First I have to tell you something which you already know: There is a lot of misinformation out there and who am I to stand in its way. That said, here are some little known ‘tiger’ related items which I can neither disprove nor prove so I will repeat them.

#1 The Naidka people who live in eastern and southern India, but mostly in southern, have a saying: “May the tiger eat me if I tell a lie.”

#2 The Guanyin rode on the back of a tiger to the Land of the Dead where ‘she’ sings in her heavenly voice to relieve the suffering of the damned souls. This so angers the lord of the dead that he banishes the Guanyin back to our world where she is lives on an island and dispersing mercy to the living. Nothing is said of what happened to the tiger. In Chinese this Land of the Dead was called Feng du 酆都.

#3 There was a half-tiger, half-man god in the moon called Moyang Melur. He held the secrets of a civilized society in a bag and didn’t share them with humans who ran rampant on the earth. One night Moyang Melur was enjoying himself as usual watching humans rape, cheat, lie, etc. when he leaned a little too far forward and fell to earth himself. There he met Moyang Kapir, a human, and threatened him if he didn’t help him get back to the moon. Moyang Kapir set up a rope by which they both climbed back to the moon. While there the human feared he would be eaten so he stole away taking the bag with its secrets with him. Once back on earth he destroyed the rope so the moon god couldn’t follow. Then Moyang Kapir dispensed the rules of society to mankind and as you know things got a lot better. My question: Which part was tiger and which part human?

#4 There is a story of a Buddha who sacrificed himself to a hungry tiger to save the lives of others.

#5 The mountain god in Korea was always accompanied by a tiger.

#6 A Korean myth of the Heavenly King Hwanung – who wanted to dwell on earth: “At that time a bear and a tiger living in the same cave prayed to Holy Hwanung to transform them into human beings. The king gave them a bundle of sacred mugworts and twenty cloves of garlic and said, ‘If you eat these and shun the sunlight for one hundred days, you will assume human form.’ Both animals ate the spices and avoided the sun. After twenty-one days the bear became a woman, but the tiger, unable to observe the taboo, remained a tiger. Unable to find a husband, the bear-woman prayed under the altar tree for a child. Hwanung metamorphosed himself , lay with her, and begot a son…” This is from Sources of Korean Tradition… vol. 2.

#7a In the Cambridge Shorter History of India there is this saying: “He who rides the tiger cannot dismount.” #7b In a 1920 novel by Chauncey Crafts Hotchkiss one character says: “Confucius says: ‘He who rides the tiger cannot dismount.’ ” #7c In 2007 the case of sentencing Mario Claiborne, a drug dealer, reached the U. S. Supreme Court. The issues are not what I am concerned with here, but what does matter to me is that in a 1995 Circuit Court of Appeals decision it was written: “If he was regarded as a prospective perjurer, on the theory that, ‘one who rides the tiger cannot dismount’, it must be remembered that the immunity afforded by the Fifth Amendment relates to the past. It is not a license to a person testifying to commit perjury.” (Despite the fact that the Supreme Court made its ruling the whole point was mooted when Claiborne was shot to death in St. Louis in late May 2007.) #7d In a 1924 book, Western Civilization and the Far East, one chapter states with ” ‘He who rides the tiger [blah, blah, blah].’ – A Chinese Saying” #7e Charles Dawes, 30th Vice President of the United States, veep to Calvin Coolidge, descendant of William Dawes who road with Paul Revere to warn the locals that ‘The British are coming!’, stated in his autobiography “He who rides… etc.” He also said “I should hate to think that the Senate was as tired of me at the beginning of my service as I am of the Senate at the end.”

An exception to the tiger-riding rule?

Maybe there are times and there are people, i.e., morphed gods, who enjoying riding the tiger and don’t want to get off. Shoki could be one such example. He is known as the Demon Queller. Tigers quell demons, too. The two together.. and what do you get? A double whammy. Kyōsai (暁斎: 1831-89) knew this as can be seen in the detail of a triptych shown below:

#8a From The Book of Rites is a saying “He who treads on the tail of a tiger which does not bite him will see progress and success.” [This is my loose interpretation.] #8b In the 4th to 3rd century B.C. told the story of Confucius encountering a weeping woman who said that a tiger had killed her father-in-law, husband and son. When asked why the woman had not fled the area she responded that it was because the government was not harsh. ” ‘There!’ cried the Master, turning to his disciples; ‘remember that. Bad government is worse than a tiger.’ ” #8c Chinese children learned the proverb “It is easier to catch a tiger by the tail than to ask a favor.”

#9 In a volume called Law Relating to Animals an argument is made that “If a person wakes up in the middle of the night and finds an escaping tiger on top of his bed and suffers a heart attack, it would be nothing to the point that the intentions of the tiger were quite amiable.”

#10 In the Nihongi there is a quote: “Give a tiger wings and let him go.”

#11 In parts of India it is said that wherever a man was killed by a tiger people would start a cairn of rocks and that whenever someone else would pass that spot again they would add an extra rock. This is not completely unlike the common practice in the U.S. today of erecting white crosses accompanied by plastic flowers at the site of automobile or motorcycle wrecks where someone died – often because they were drunk, stoned, speeding, etc., or in the wrong place at the wrong time when someone else was drunk, stoned, speeding, etc. Call me cynical.

#12 “In central Java the wer-tiger is held to guard the plantations against wild pigs.”

#13 Among the Nagas of India it is thought that the tiger could cause an eclipse.

#14 “A myth of descent from a tiger ancestor among the Bhils and Rajputs [of India]… but tiger-worship proper is confined to wilder tribes.”

#15 In Mirzapur tiger-gods were said to live in bira trees and at night they would take human form and call out the names of passersby. Those who answer get sick.

#16 The first live tiger displayed in Rome was said to be in ca. 11 B. C. It was kept in a cage.

#17 There are more metaphors in China surrounding the tiger’s powers – real or imaginary – than that of any other animal. For those who wielded power it meant dignity and sternness. For soldiers it was courage and fierceness. Its mere appearance or the sound of its roar represented danger and terror. Still does.

#18 Tiger whiskers were said to help ease the pain of toothaches. (I know that if I encountered a tiger in the wild I would forget about any toothache I might have at the time.)

#19 In ancient China some soldiers would dress up in fake tiger skin outfits and would then roar in an attempt to intimidate their enemies.

#20 It was written that if a tiger leaps at its prey three times and fails each time then it will walk away. However, any of its victims will become demons once digested with the exception of dogs which simply make the tiger drunk. Bad smells will drive it away.

#21 If a person was eaten by a tiger one of two things might happen according to the Chinese: 1) it will urge the tiger to eat others or 2) the human’s spirit will lose all will to escape, but will stay near the tiger to serve its purposes.

#22 When the eccentric Zen priest Ikkyū (一休) was five years old he was already known for his precocity. One story says that he was called before the shogun Ashikaga Yorimitsu (足利義満) who pointed at a painting of a tiger and told the boy to go tie it up. To this the boy said he would tie it up right after Yorimitsu drove it away.

#23 In ancient China there was a reclusive Buddhist monk named Xuanzong who lived by himself on a mountain infested with tigers. One day an old man showed up and told the monk that formerly he had been a man eating tiger but since he had studied the monk’s teaching he had been transformed into a deity (deva).

When did the Japanese see their first live tiger?

I don’t know, but we do know that foreign circuses were visiting Japan as early as 1871 – maybe a bit earlier. Perhaps a gift of a tiger had been sent by the Koreans or the Chinese before that, but if there was one we haven’t seen the evidence yet. If or when we find any new information we will post it here. But until then here below on the left is a detail for your delectation taken from an anonymous print from ca. 1881. Clearly it represents a circus troupe visiting form abroad. On the right is a detail from a Chikanobu (周延) triptych dated 1886.

While I can give the earliest date of a live tiger in Japan I can quote an interesting account from the mid-19th century – ca. 1860-1. In a book published in 1873 by Samuel Mossman it says “Among the imports at Yokohama was a tiger from Singapore, brought over by a Dutch trader. The Japanese customs refused at first to let it be landed, while the shipmaster would not take it back. In this dilemma it was resolved that it should be let loose on shore, which horrified the officials, and they gladly admitted the animal, while the importer sold it for ten times its cost, to a Japanese wild-beast showman.” UPDATE: Yokohama: Prints from Nineteenth-Century Japan says that the first live tiger was displayed in the Ryōgoku district in 1860. On a print by Yoshitoyo (芳豊) there is an inscription by Kanagaki Robun (仮名垣魯文: 1839-94) in which he says: “When the tiger and the leopard roar… the rooftiles will all shake, and wine on a table will tip over…. Being able to view such a frightening beast in a prosperous district spreads the moral reform of peace widely across the seas and has been a blessing for this suspicious reign.”

Below is an adulterated version of a Yoshitoyo print from that period showing the ferocity of a captive tiger having his lunch.

For more information about Japanese prints and culture please visit our other web site at http://www.printsofjapan.com/.
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#64415

From: Sreenadh OG <sreesog@...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:07 am
Subject: BharatVarsha !

sreesog

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Source: http://chiraan.wordpress.com/2012/04/07/bharatvarsha/
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BharatVarsha !

07 Apr

Jambudweepa is 1 lakh yojan .. in the centre of Jambudweepa is Meru which is 16000 yojan at base and 32000 yojan at the top .

At the base is ilavrata khanda which is squarish . ..Meru in between is like a karnika inside the lotus … just as the karnika inside the lotus has many kesaris ..there are many kesar pavats along the meru-border of ilavrat khanda ..each is 100 yojan in height and 80 yojan in circular periphery at base . all along the ilavrat khnada boundary towards other khanda like Bhadrashva onthe east and ketumal on the west kuru on the north and bharat on the south .. are the series of mountain ranges which leave Ketumal bhadrashva Kuru and BHARAT VARSHA as a outer petal like structure for JAMBUDWEEPA .[ BHUPADMA PATRANI ]

Nishad and neel parvat are 1 lakh yojan along the east west samudra ..forming border for ketumal bhdrashva and ilavrat from east west direction .. Surrounding Ilavrat is MANDAR GANDHAMADAN SUPARSHAVA AND VIPULA ..On these parvat are big 1100 yojan JAMBU tree whose fruits keeps falling on these kesar parvats and break . The juice of the fruits falling continuously form a river called JAMBUNADI .. the grounds around the kesar parvat get drenched in this fruit juice as river soaks through it .. when wind blows the banks of this river soaked with the jambu fruit juice become dry and land mixed with this juice when dry become a gold mine of GOLD named JAMBUNAD GOLD which DEVATAS use for their jewellery known as divine GOLD . … JAMBUNAD GOLD .. there are vaibhraj ,forest , gandhamadan forest nandan and chitrarath forest are there . similarly there are ARUNOD MAHABHADRA SEETOD ad MAANAS sarovar ..which are always treaded by Devatas only .

The people [ devatas ] who drink the water of this river JAMBU never get OLD nor do they have diseases .. They never become unhappy and are always in joyous mood . They dont get tired and uneasy feeling never bothers them . Hunger doesnt trouble them and they never fear anything . The people here in all the eight KHANDAS [except BHARAT VARSHA ] are always happy .. these land are like SWARGA On BHUMI .. the people here have varnashram dharma and YUGA never applies to them they remain truthful in all yugas and Miseries never touch people here .. The people of these Khandas live for 10000 and 12000 years with constant ayushya … Indra never gives rainfall here the water in these lands are sufficient for the people .

People who have done extreme punya get birth here and live happily to enjoy their punya ..

Bharat VArsha is the only land in entire universe where karma done in this land gives either Swarga or NARAKA ..and nishkaam karma gives moksha .. so one gets phala for the KARMA in BHARAT VARSHA .

On the MERU parvat at the top by the side of BRAMHAPURI is three shringakaar Parvat which is 14000 yojan in height .. like a TRISHUL .. the SWARGA loka is based on this trishoolaakar Parvat … The Ganaga from the Bramhaloka falls amidst this TRishul onto MERU and divides into four stream .. SEETA towards Bhadrashva khanda .. CHAKSHU nadi into Ketumal , Bhadra Nadi into Uttarkuru and ALAKANANDA nadi falls towards SOUTH and flowing through the sky falling on NISHAD HIMAKOOTA and HIMACHAL parvat via akaash marga it falls into BHARATVARSHA and divides into seven streams to flow into BHARAT and finally meets samudra .

Bharat varsha is the only bhumi for KARMANUSHTHANA rest all are BHOGABHUMI … here there are kulagiri [ mountains ranges ] namely mahendra , malay sahyachal shuktimanta ruksha vindhya and PAriyatra ..among these mountains men do the karma which make them eligible to enjoy in other khandas , or do papakarma to go to naraka or take animal births or do tapasya etc to get higher lokas .thus this is sadhan bhumi .

This BHARAT VARSHA is nine thousand yojana and has nine divisions

INDRA DWEEPA
KASHERU DWEEPA
TAMRAPARNI
GABHASTIMAAN
NAAGDWEEPA
SAUMYA DWEEPA
GANDHARVA DWEEPA
VAARUN DWEEPA
BHARAT KHANDA [ SAAGAR SAMVRUTTA]

This Bharat khanda is 1000 yojana was once rules SAAGAR . Sagarputra the sons of Saagar ploughed this land to look for the divine horse and cut through the mainland into EIGHT smaller upadweepa . [ continents ] and ocean rushed through in between these continents ,.. forming big sea known as Sagar .. these EIGHT dweepas are [ note the sanskrit name of modern continents ]

SWARNAPRASTHA
CHANDRASHUKRA
AWARTAN
RAMANAK
MUDAHARAN
PANCHJANYA
SHIMHALA
LANKA

The centre of the ninth dweepa BHARAT live bramhan kshtriya vaishya shudra by doing yaga yagnya karma etc ..to the east are Kiratas ..to the west live yavanas .

Shatadru and chandrbahga rivers sprout from Himaparvat ,
vedasmriti srings from pariyatra parvat ,
narmada surasa spring from vindhya parvat
tapi river,payokshini and nirvindhya from Ruksha parvat
From the foothills of sahyachal the rivers whose names if taken with devotion alone destroys many sins ,such rivers are Godavari bheemarathi krishnaveni
krutamala tamraparni from malaya parvat
trisaama rushikul from mahendra parvat
kumaradhara from shuktimat parvat
These rivers further divide into many thousand smaller rivers

Now the names of countries on earth ie Bharata khanda spread into east west north south and northeast southeast northwest and south west directions from HASTINAPUR ..

In the centre of Bharat dweepa are the countries ruled by Krittika rohini and MRIGASIRA . they are

bhadra arimeda mandavya salva neepa ujjihan sankhyat maru vatsa ghosha yamun saaraswat matsyadesha , madhyamik desha , mathur , upajyotisha , dharmaranya ,shoorsen ,shaurgreeva uddehika pandudesha gudadesha ashwaththa panchaal saaket kanka kuru kaalkoti kukur paariyatra naha audumbar kapishthala and HASTINAPUR .

Towards East are the countries governed by ARDRA PUNARVASU AND PUSHYAMI they are

Anjan vrushabdhwaj padma maalyavaan giri, vyaghrmukha suhya karvat chaandrapura shoorpakarna khas MAGADH , shibirgiri MITHILA ,samathat ODRA ashvaavadan danturak , PRAGJYOTISH , Laohitya Ksheerodsamudra , purushad udaygiri Bhadra gaudak PAUNDRA utkala KASHI mekal ambhastha ekpad Tamraliptak kaushalak Vardhamaan

Towards South EAST countries governed by Ashlesha MAGHA and Poorvaphalguni are

Koshal KALINGA VANGA UPABANGA jatharanga shaulika vidarbha vatsa ANDHRA chedi urdhwakantha Vrush naliker , charmadweepa , Vindhyantvasinistripuri ..shmashrudhar ,hemakoot vyalgrev mahagreeva , KISHKINDHA kantaksthal ,NISHADRASTRA , PURIK dasharNa , Nagna parna shaabar

towards SOUTH countries giverned by uttara Hasta chitta are

LANKA kalajin saurikirna , TALIKAT , girinagar , malay parvat , dardur mahendra malindya BHARUKACHCHA , kankat , konkan , vanavasi ,shibika , phanikar , ABHIRA , aakar . ven , avartak , dashpur , gonarda . KERAL KARNAT , MAHATAVI , chitrakoot . nasikya . kollagiri , CHOLA , KRAUNCH , jatadhar , kaveri ,RUSHYAMOOK , Vaidurya shankhamuktakar desha . atriashram varichar Dharmapattan dweepa ,ganarajya , krushna vellur ,pishika , shoorpadri , kusum naag , TUMBAVAN KARMAENY KAYAMBO tapasashram . dakshin samudra ,rushika , kanchi , maruchipattanam , cheryay desha , SIMHALA rushabha , baladevapattanam , dandakavanam , TIMINGILASHAN , Bhadra , KUTCH , KUNJARDARI TAmraparni

SOUTHWEST countries governed by swati vishkha anuradha are

PALLAVA KAMBHOJ SINDHU SAUVIR , VADVAMUKH ARAB ,AMBHASTHA KAPILA NARIMUKHA Anart phenagiri , YAVAN , MARGAR , karnapraveya , PARSHIKA SHUDRA BARBAR KIRAT-KHANDA kravyad . AABHIR , Chanchuuk .HEmagiri SINDHUkaalak revatak SAURASHTRA BAADAR DRAVIDA

WESTERN countries ruled by Jyestha moola and poorvashadha are

MANIMAAN MEGHVAN Vanaough kshurarpan Astagiri aparantak ,shantik HAIHAY , PRASHASTADRI , VOKKON , PANCHANAD , RAMATH , PAARAT TAAR KSHITJRUNGHA VAISHYA KANK SHAKA , inhabited by nirmaryada mletcha

North western countries ruled by uttarashadha shravan dhanishtha are

MANDAVYA TUSHAR Taalhal MADRA ashmak kuluth halada STREERAJYA NRUSIMHAvana KHASTHA , VENUMATI . Phalguluka , guluha , marukuchcha charmaranga ekvilochana shoolik deerghgreeva aasykeshi

Northern countries ruled by shatabhshaga uttarabhadra and poorvabhadra are

Kailash himavaan vasumaan dhanushmaan krounch vasaati merugiri uttarkuru kshudrmeena KEKAY YAMUN bhogaprastha ARJUNAYAN , AGNIDRA , adarshant dweepa trigarta , TURUGAAnan svamukha keshdhar , chipitnasika , daserak vaatdhaan shardhaan Takshasheela pushkalavat kailavat ,kantdhaan ambar madrak maalav paurav kachhar dandapingalak Maanhal HUN kohal sheetak BHOOTAPURA gandhara yahsovati nagari hemataal rajanya khachar gavyadesh yaoudheya dasameya shyamak kshemadhoorta

Countries in NORTHEASTEN region governed by Revati ashwini Bharini are

Meruk nastarajya pashupaal keer KASHMEERA , Abhisaar , darad , tangan , kuloot sairandri vanarashtra bramhapura darvadamar vanrajya keerat CHINA KAUNINDA BHALLA PATOLA JATASUR Kunat Khas Ghosha Kuchika ekcharan anuvidhdha SUVARNABHU Vasudhan divishta Paurav cheeranivasi Trinetra Munjadri gandharva

EVEN devatas sing that a birth in BHARATVARSHA is for the very fortunate among devatas for they can take step forward towards MOKSHA .

Krishnarpanamastu .

About chiraan

a humble bramhin learned enough(by the grace of Teacher) to present tenets of astrology as propounded by sages.

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55 Comments

Posted by chiraan on April 7, 2012 in Astroanalysis, Astrology and purana, karma

Tags: Bharat varsha, jambudweepa EARTH INDIA

55 Responses to BharatVarsha !

Kamal

April 11, 2012 at 13:28

Sir shouldnt the satellite images give a petal like structure of bharatkhanda instead of spherical one..? What are we missing here.. please guide..

Regards
Kamal

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- chiraan
  
  April 11, 2012 at 13:30
  
  bharat varsha is petal like bharat khanda is spherical .. tiryak kshetra ,, how is the edge of a gigantic petal imagine
  
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  Reply
  - hrishikesh
    
    April 11, 2012 at 13:56
    
    SriKrishna takes Arjuna to meet MahaVishnu; there is darkness on the way; SriKrishna uses Sudarshana chakra; is it just to illuminate the way or is it because the dark region is thick and needs cutting through and what is the route taken ?
    
    Also Anjaneya when fetching Sanjeevini sees a “black hole” is it a short cut to andhama tamas?
    
    Rate This
  - chiraan
    
    April 11, 2012 at 14:16
    
    anantasan is beyond andhatamas .. and no light in andhatamas … so sudarshan chakra enlightens it … there is philosophical meaning to it …
    
    Rate This
  - Usha
    
    April 11, 2012 at 14:35
    
    Pranama Guruvaryaa,
    
    Is the spherical Bharat khanda situated at the edge of Bharat varsha like a dew drop on a lotus petal? I was under the impression that it is reverse? Bharat khanda is one of the nine khandas of Jambu dweepa… what are the shapes of these khandas?
    
    regards
    Usha
    
    Rate This
chiraan

April 10, 2012 at 20:57

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- padmini hrishikesh
  
  April 11, 2012 at 12:11
  
  Namaste Guruji
  
  Sri HAri Vayu Gurubhyo Namaha
  
  Kishkindha is in between karnataka and A.P. ? wow it is very fascinating to know that. Is this Kishkinda the exact place “Kishkinda Khanda” mentioned in Ramayana where all the Vanaraas lived?
  
  Pranam Guruji
  
  Hare Srinivasa
  
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  - hrishikesh
    
    April 11, 2012 at 12:15
    
    Yes .. this can be verified by the fact that Sri Vadirajaru gave the ruler of Vijaynagar Kingdom Vali Bhandara during credit crisis
    
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  - chiraan
    
    April 11, 2012 at 13:27
    
    First SRIKRISHNA gave VAALI Bhandar to YUDHISTHIR when they had financial crunch during ashwamedha yagnya ,.left over was given by VADIRAAJA .. One cannot find any blemish in VAADIRAJARU as he lived for 120 years only people who have never committed sins live that long .. 100 years one can live by poorvajanam karma .. but beyond that one can live only by satkarma in the present life ..any sins ones life gets reduced /. but vadirajaru took sajeeva samadhi ..
    
    Rate This
- sushena
  
  April 11, 2012 at 15:22
  
  respected guruji pranama
  guruji in yuddha kanda of valmiki ramayana it is mentioned that meru parvat is towards west of kishkinda.guruji please correct me
  humble pranama
  
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chiraan

April 10, 2012 at 00:39

REAL TIME VIEW OF THE EARTH FROM SATELLITE

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chiraan

April 10, 2012 at 00:38

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chiraan

April 10, 2012 at 00:37

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#64429

From: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya@...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:48 pm
Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis and phalita-jyotisha are of Geek origin!

sunil_bhatta...

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Dear friends,

Glory to Hippocrates and glory to those ancient Hindu scholars whose knowledge went to Hippocrates.

Sunil KB

From: AK Kaul <jyotirved@...>
To: "gopa292002@..." <gopa292002@...>; "hs_sethunathan@..." <hs_sethunathan@...>; "shivashankararao@..." <shivashankararao@...>; "krishlal@..." <krishlal@...>; "gbsub@..." <gbsub@...>; "praspandey@..." <praspandey@...>; "baqayarup@..." <baqayarup@...>; Dr. S. Ramakrishna Sharma <d.ramakrishnan2@...>; V K <vkchoudhry@...>; "bursar_99@..." <bursar_99@...>; "gbp_kumar@..." <gbp_kumar@...>; "gbsub1@..." <gbsub1@...>; Sridhar Govindan <appulali@...>; rohani <jyotish_vani@...>; akandabaratam <akandabaratam@yahoogroups.com>; sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala@...>; Gayatri Devi Vasudev <gayatridevivasudev@...>; "asthikasamaj@yahoogroups.com" <asthikasamaj@yahoogroups.com>; Arun Upadhyay <arunupadhyay30@...>; vedic_research_institute <vedic_research_institute@yahoogroups.com>; dr.p.v.vartak <info@...>; GANTA DIWAKAR <hariom4959@...>; S. Kalyanaraman <kalyan97@...>; Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@...>; "jyotishgroup@yahoogroups.com" <jyotishgroup@yahoogroups.com>; Sudhir-Architect <ar_sudhirkumar@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 2:31 AM
Subject: [JyotishGroup] Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis and phalita-jyotisha are of Geek origin!

http://www.crystalinks.com/hippocrates.html

In Greek antiquity, medicine was second to mathematics. Ancient Greek Civilization was at its peak during the 400's BC. During this period of time, sick people went to the temples dedicated to Asclepius, the Greek god of healing. At this time, a man named Hippocrates began teaching that every disease had only natural causes. He is known as the great ancient Greek physician. In medicine, doctors still refer to the Hippocratic oath, instituted by Hippocrates, who is also credited with laying the foundations of medicine as a science.

Galen built on Hippocrates' theory of the four humors, and his writings became the foundation of medicine in Europe and the Middle East for centuries. The Greek physicians Herophilos and Paulus Aegineta were pioneers in the study of anatomy, while Pedanius Dioscorides wrote an extensive treatise on the practice of pharmacology.

Hippocrates was the first physician known who actually considered medicine to be a science, and to be separate from religion. He wrote the Hippocratic oath, an oath that every new doctor-to-be still says to this day. It reflected Hippocrates high ideals.

Hippocrates of Kos (c. 460 BCc. 380 BC) was an ancient Greek physician. He has been called "the father of medicine", and is commonly regarded as one of the most outstanding figures in medicine of all time. He was a physician trained at the Dream temple of Kos, and may have been a pupil of Herodicus. Writings attributed to him (Corpus hippocraticum, or "Hippocratic writings") rejected the superstition and magic of primitive "medicine" and laid the foundations of medicine as a branch of science. Little is actually known about Hippocrates's personal life, but some of his medical achievements were documented by such people as Plato and Aristotle.

The Hippocratic writings introduced patient confidentiality, a practice which is still in use today. This was described under the Hippocratic Oath and other treatises. Hippocrates recommended that physicians record their findings and their medicinal methods, so that these records may be passed down and employed by other physicians.Other Hippocratic writings associated personality traits with the relative abundance of the four humours in the body: phlegm, yellow bile, black bile, and blood, and was a major influence on Galen and later on medieval medicine.

The Hippocratic Corpus is a collection of about sixty treatises, most written between 430 BC and AD 200. They are actually a group of texts written by several different people holding several different viewpoints erroneously grouped under the name of Hippocrates, perhaps at the Library of Alexandria. None of the texts included in the Corpus can be considered to have been written by Hippocrates himself, and one of them at least was written by his son-in-law Polybus. The best known of the Hippocratic writings is the Hippocratic Oath; however, this text was most likely not written by Hippocrates himself. A famous, time-honoured medical rule ascribed to Hippocrates is Primum non nocere ("first, do no harm"); another one is Ars longa, vita brevis ("art is long, and life short").

The Hippocratic face is the change produced in the countenance by death, or long sickness, excessive evacuations, excessive hunger, and the like. The nose is pinched, the eyes are sunk, the temples hollow, the ears cold and retracted, the skin of the forehead tense and dry, the complexion livid, the lips pendent, relaxed, and cold. The Hippocratic face is so called because it was first described by Hippocrates.

In medicine, clubbing (or digital clubbing) is a deformity of the fingers and fingernails that is associated with a number of diseases, mostly of the heart and lungs. Idiopathic clubbing can also occur. Hippocrates was probably the first to document clubbing as a sign of disease, and the phenomenon is therefore occasionally called Hippocratic fingers.

The associations of the signs with the parts of the body are as follows:

Aries - head, face, brain, eyes
Taurus - throat, neck, thyroid gland, vocal tract
Gemini - arms, lungs, shoulders, hands, nervous sytem
Cancer - chest, breasts, stomach, alimentary canal
Leo - heart, chest, spine, spinal column, upper back
Virgo - digestive system, intestines, spleen, nervous system
Libra - kidneys, skin, lumbar region, buttocks
Scorpio - reproductive system, sexual organs, bowels, excretory system
Sagittarius - hips, thighs, liver, sciatic nerve
Capricorn - knees, joints, skeletal system
Aquarius - ankles, calves, circulatory systemPisces - feet, toes, lymphatic system, adipose tissue

The Hypocratic bench or scamnum was a device invented by Hippocrates (c. 460 BC380 BC) which used tension to aid in setting bones. It is a forerunner of the traction devices used in modern orthopedics, as well as of the rack, an instrument of torture. The patient would lie on a bench, at an adjustable angle, and ropes would be tied around his arms, waist, legs or feet, depending on the treatment needed. Winches would then be used to pull the ropes apart, correcting curvature in the spine or separating an overlapping fracture.

The Hippocratic Oath

The Hippocratic Oath is an oath traditionally taken by physicians, in which certain ethical guidelines are laid out. It is thought to be written by Hippocrates by some scholars, but this is disputed and instead thought to be written by the Pythagoreans. One traditional version is below but there are others.

Several parts of the Oath have been removed or re-worded over the years in various countries, schools, and societies but the Oath still remains one of the few elements of medicine that have remained unchanged. Most schools administer some form of oath, but the great majority no longer use this ancient version, which praises pagan gods, advocates teaching of men but not women, and forbids cutting, abortion, and euthanasia. Also missing from the ancient Oath and many modern versions are complex, new ethical landmines such as dealing with HMOs, living wills, and whether morning-after pills are technically closer to prophylactics or an abortion.

I swear by Apollo the physician, and Aesculapius, and Health, and All-heal, and all the gods and goddesses, that, according to my ability and judgment, I will keep this Oath and this stipulation- to reckon him who taught me this Art equally dear to me as my parents, to share my substance with him, and relieve his necessities if required; to look upon his offspring in the same footing as my own brothers, and to teach them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or stipulation; and that by precept, lecture, and every other mode of instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the Art to my own sons, and those of my teachers, and to disciples bound by a stipulation and oath according to the law of medicine, but to none others.

I will follow that system of regimen which, according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patients, and abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous.

I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion. With purity and with holiness I will pass my life and practice my Art.

I will not cut persons laboring under the stone, but will leave this to be done by men who are practitioners of this work. Into whatever houses I enter, I will go into them for the benefit of the sick, and will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief and corruption; and, further from the seduction of females or males, of freemen and slaves.

Whatever, in connection with my professional practice or not, in connection with it, I see or hear, in the life of men, which ought not to be spoken of abroad, I will not divulge, as reckoning that all such should be kept secret.

While I continue to keep this Oath unviolated, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and the practice of the art, respected by all men, in all times! But should I trespass and violate this Oath, may the reverse be my lot!

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Reply | Messages in this Topic (4)

#64430

From: Hari Malla <harimalla@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:33 am
Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)

harimalla...

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Dear Rohiniji,
No sir, I am not trying to sell ayanamsha to the sayan wallahs. I am trying to sell them the lunar sayan system which automatically takes care of ayanamsha. When we go by the seasons of the lunar months, then we have to shift 30 degrees at a time. That is good enough for the festival purpose. They need not care about ayanamshas. Ayanamsha is only for the phalit folks. Lunar seasons is good enough for them, so they do not shift the vernal equinox every year but every 2000 years considering the lunar shift of seasons...

Thank you anyway for the suggestion .

Hari Malla

--- On Thu, 4/12/12, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@...> wrote:

From: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@...>
Subject: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
To: JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, April 12, 2012, 1:23 AM

Well Hari_malla ji, since ayanamsha seems to have become a big chip on certain, shoulders who dance around the Sidereal Center of Jyotish, with there 6 degrees plus, 6 degrees minus dancing -- although most serious Jyotish-o-phils are dancing within an orb of 2-3 degrees -- your ayanamsha mission would need more work and more fancy foot-steps when you try to sell your ayanamshas to the Sayan-waalahs as our elder brother Kaul_dada calls them, fondly! ;-)

Love, Light, Reality!

Rohiniranjan

--- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Hari Malla <harimalla@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Harsha Indrasenji and Rohiniji,
> For the time being, till the phalit people realize the futility of their present excessive ayanamsha, perhaps, we should give the choice to the indvidual phalit person to decide what pleases him. He may try either with the cordinative ayanamsha or the unnaturally highÂ ayanamsha that the majority are using at the present., But I am sure, with the passage of time, truth will prevail and the people will gradually shift to the cordinative ayanamsha..
> Thanks and regards,
> Hari malla
>
> --- On Wed, 4/11/12, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@...>
> Subject: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
> To: JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, April 11, 2012, 11:06 PM
>
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
> Dear Mr. Indrasena_ji,
>
> In one of the threads, probably the one that Hari Malla_ji shared from private exchange between both of you, recently, I believe you stated that the ayanamsha that you are proposing or recommending was not meant for Jyotish, but for fixing festivals and sankrantis etc. This needs a bit more elaboration.
>
> Those who are only interested in phalit jyotish and not so much calendars and festivals -- would they be wasting time and effort if they pursue your recommended/endorsed ayanamsha??
>
> Please respond as we would like to spend time and effort in areas which help phalit jyotish. The need for that is way more urgent and important for most, rather than messing around with calendars etc.
>
> Awaiting your clear and straight-forward response about that specific matter!
>
> Regards,
>
> Rohiniranjan
>
...

Reply | Messages in this Topic (10)

#64435

From: "Sunil" <astro_tellerkerala@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:25 am
Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis and phalita-jyotisha are of Geek origin!

astro_teller...

Send Email

dear sunil b Ji

this is Known as calender masochism in greece medical terms by stooges which is a self defeating personality disorder

rgrds sunil nair

--- In ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya@...> wrote:
>
> Dear friends,
>
> Glory to Hippocrates and glory to those ancient Hindu scholars whose knowledge went to Hippocrates.
>
> Sunil KB
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: AK Kaul jyotirved@...
> To: "gopa292002@..." gopa292002@...; "hs_sethunathan@..." hs_sethunathan@...; "shivashankararao@..." shivashankararao@...; "krishlal@..." krishlal@...; "gbsub@..." gbsub@...; "praspandey@..." praspandey@...; "baqayarup@..." baqayarup@...; Dr. S. Ramakrishna Sharma d.ramakrishnan2@...; V K vkchoudhry@...; "bursar_99@..." bursar_99@...; "gbp_kumar@..." gbp_kumar@...; "gbsub1@..." gbsub1@...; Sridhar Govindan appulali@...; rohani jyotish_vani@...; akandabaratam akandabaratam@yahoogroups.com; sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@...; Gayatri Devi Vasudev gayatridevivasudev@...; "asthikasamaj@yahoogroups.com" asthikasamaj@yahoogroups.com; Arun Upadhyay arunupadhyay30@...; vedic_research_institute vedic_research_institute@yahoogroups.com; dr.p.v.vartak
> info@...; GANTA DIWAKAR hariom4959@...; S. Kalyanaraman kalyan97@...; Gopal Goel gkgoel1937@...; "jyotishgroup@yahoogroups.com" jyotishgroup@yahoogroups.com; Sudhir-Architect ar_sudhirkumar@...
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 2:31 AM
> Subject: [JyotishGroup] Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis and phalita-jyotisha are of Geek origin!
>
>
> �
>
>
> http://www.crystalinks.com/hippocrates.html
>
> In Greek antiquity, medicine was second to mathematics. Ancient Greek
> Civilization was at its peak during the 400's BC. During this period of
> time, sick people went to the temples dedicated to Asclepius, the Greek
> god of healing. At this time, a man named Hippocrates began teaching
> that every disease had only natural causes. He is known as the great
> ancient Greek physician. In medicine, doctors still refer to the
> Hippocratic oath, instituted by Hippocrates, who is also credited with
> laying the foundations of medicine as a science.
> Galen built on Hippocrates' theory of the four humors, and his writings
> became the foundation of medicine in Europe and the Middle East for
> centuries. The Greek physicians Herophilos and Paulus Aegineta were
> pioneers in the study of anatomy, while Pedanius Dioscorides wrote an
> extensive treatise on the practice of pharmacology.
> Hippocrates was the first physician known who actually considered
> medicine to be a science, and to be separate from religion. He wrote the Hippocratic oath, an oath that every new doctor-to-be still says to
> this day. It reflected Hippocrates high ideals.
> Hippocrates of Kos (c. 460 BCc. 380 BC) was an ancient Greek physician. He has been called "the father of medicine", and is commonly regarded
> as one of the most outstanding figures in medicine of all time. He was a physician trained at the Dream temple of Kos, and may have been a pupil of Herodicus. Writings attributed to him (Corpus hippocraticum, or
> "Hippocratic writings") rejected the superstition and magic of primitive "medicine" and laid the foundations of medicine as a branch of science. Little is actually known about Hippocrates's personal life, but some of his medical achievements were documented by such people as Plato and
> Aristotle.
> The Hippocratic writings introduced patient confidentiality, a practice
> which is still in use today. This was described under the Hippocratic
> Oath and other treatises. Hippocrates recommended that physicians record their findings and their medicinal methods, so that these records may
> be passed down and employed by other physicians.Other Hippocratic
> writings associated personality traits with the relative abundance of
> the four humours in the body: phlegm, yellow bile, black bile, and
> blood, and was a major influence on Galen and later on medieval
> medicine.
> The Hippocratic Corpus is a collection of about sixty treatises, most
> written between 430 BC and AD 200. They are actually a group of texts
> written by several different people holding several different viewpoints erroneously grouped under the name of Hippocrates, perhaps at the
> Library of Alexandria. None of the texts included in the Corpus can be
> considered to have been written by Hippocrates himself, and one of them
> at least was written by his son-in-law Polybus. The best known of the
> Hippocratic writings is the Hippocratic Oath; however, this text was
> most likely not written by Hippocrates himself. A famous, time-honoured
> medical rule ascribed to Hippocrates is Primum non nocere ("first, do no harm"); another one is Ars longa, vita brevis ("art is long, and life short").
> The Hippocratic face is the change produced in the countenance by death, or long sickness, excessive evacuations, excessive hunger, and the
> like. The nose is pinched, the eyes are sunk, the temples hollow, the
> ears cold and retracted, the skin of the forehead tense and dry, the
> complexion livid, the lips pendent, relaxed, and cold. The Hippocratic
> face is so called because it was first described by Hippocrates.
> In medicine, clubbing (or digital clubbing) is a deformity of the
> fingers and fingernails that is associated with a number of diseases,
> mostly of the heart and lungs. Idiopathic clubbing can also occur.Hippocrates was probably the first to document clubbing as a sign of
> disease, and the phenomenon is therefore occasionally called Hippocratic fingers.
> Medical astrology is an ancient medical system that associates various
> parts of the body, diseases, and drugs as under the influence of the
> Sun, Moon, and planets, along with the twelve astrological signs.
> Hippocrates, the Greek physician who is regarded as the father of
> medicine, insisted his students study astrology, saying, "He who does
> not understand astrology is not a doctor but a fool." Each of the
> astrological signs (along with the Sun, Moon, and planets) are
> associated with different parts of the human body.Also, many plants are referred to in old herbals as being "under the influence of" some
> planet. This was used as a codification of the plants properties and
> used to create mixtures specific to different diseases.
> The associations
> of the signs with the parts of the body are as follows:
> * Aries - head, face, brain, eyes
> * Taurus - throat, neck, thyroid gland, vocal tract
> * Gemini - arms, lungs, shoulders, hands, nervous sytem
> * Cancer - chest, breasts, stomach, alimentary canal
> * Leo - heart, chest, spine, spinal column, upper back
> * Virgo - digestive system, intestines, spleen, nervous system
> * Libra - kidneys, skin, lumbar region, buttocks
> * Scorpio - reproductive system, sexual organs, bowels, excretory system
> * Sagittarius - hips, thighs, liver, sciatic nerve
> * Capricorn - knees, joints, skeletal system
> * Aquarius - ankles, calves, circulatory systemPisces - feet, toes, lymphatic system, adipose tissue
> The Hypocratic bench or scamnum was a device invented by Hippocrates (c. 460 BC380 BC) which used tension to aid in setting bones. It is a
> forerunner of the traction devices used in modern orthopedics, as well
> as of the rack, an instrument of torture. The patient would lie on a
> bench, at an adjustable angle, and ropes would be tied around his arms,
> waist, legs or feet, depending on the treatment needed. Winches would
> then be used to pull the ropes apart, correcting curvature in the spine
> or separating an overlapping fracture.
> ________________________________
>
> The Hippocratic Oath
> The Hippocratic Oath is an oath traditionally taken by physicians, in
> which certain ethical guidelines are laid out. It is thought to be
> written by Hippocrates by some scholars, but this is disputed and
> instead thought to be written by the Pythagoreans. One traditional
> version is below but there are others.
> Several parts of the Oath have been removed or re-worded over the years
> in various countries, schools, and societies but the Oath still remains
> one of the few elements of medicine that have remained unchanged. Most
> schools administer some form of oath, but the great majority no longer
> use this ancient version, which praises pagan gods, advocates teaching
> of men but not women, and forbids cutting, abortion, and euthanasia.
> Also missing from the ancient Oath and many modern versions are complex, new ethical landmines such as dealing with HMOs, living wills, and
> whether morning-after pills are technically closer to prophylactics or
> an abortion.
> I swear by Apollo the physician, and Aesculapius, and Health, and
> All-heal, and all the gods and goddesses, that, according to my ability
> and judgment, I will keep this Oath and this stipulation- to reckon him
> who taught me this Art equally dear to me as my parents, to share my
> substance with him, and relieve his necessities if required; to look
> upon his offspring in the same footing as my own brothers, and to teach
> them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or
> stipulation; and that by precept, lecture, and every other mode of
> instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the Art to my own sons, and
> those of my teachers, and to disciples bound by a stipulation and oath
> according to the law of medicine, but to none others.
> I will follow that system of regimen which, according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patients, and abstain from
> whatever is deleterious and mischievous.
> I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to
> produce abortion. With purity and with holiness I will pass my life and
> practice my Art.
> I will not cut persons
> laboring under the stone, but will leave this to be done by men who are
> practitioners of this work. Into whatever houses I enter, I will go into them for the benefit of the sick, and will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief and corruption; and, further from the seduction of
> females or males, of freemen and slaves.
> Whatever, in connection with my
> professional practice or not, in connection with it, I see or hear, in
> the life of men, which ought not to be spoken of abroad, I will not
> divulge, as reckoning that all such should be kept secret.
> While I continue to keep this Oath unviolated, may it be granted to me
> to enjoy life and the practice of the art, respected by all men, in all
> times! But should I trespass and violate this Oath, may the reverse be
> my lot!
>
>
> ShareThis
>
>
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Reply | Messages in this Topic (4)

#64436

From: "divine_seeker" <divine_seeker@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:41 am
Subject: Relation between Atmakaraka and most suitable meditation

divine_seeker

Send Email

Namasthe,

We have many types of meditation practices like focus on breath, practice of
japa, focus on body parts, deep contemplation on the magnanimity of the Lord,
feeling grateful etc. Each type would have given great results to certain people
(not all). But at the same time, some types would have been hardly effective or
even uncomfortable

Is there any significant relation between the Atmakaraka in a person's chart and
the most suitable/beneficial type of meditation he can take up? For instance, if
Jupiter is the Atmakaraka, focus on breath may be quite in sync.

If there is an established co-relation, that would help anyone who is having
difficulty in practice. He can try a switchover and move ahead.

Regards,
Harsha

Reply | Messages in this Topic (9)

#64439

From: vchiranjiv@...
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:32 am
Subject: Re: [AIA] Relation between Atmakaraka and most suitable meditation

vchiranjiv

Send Email

In hindu philosophy the unlimited qualities of the mighty are represented by the various Gods and the trinity have the overall chargeship of the subgroups.
Based on the position of the char atmakaraka and the position of various planets to it in the navamsa chart, the diety to be worshipped and meditated is determined. This is in addition to your Ishtadevta who is like the presiding family diety and like the rep of God assigned to one's family, clan etc.
This is as per an article I read in a Gujrati panchanga. (Broken language knowledge only).
however these are just steps in the worship - attempting to take the individual thru known routes initially.

Regards

Sent on my BlackBerry� from Vodafone

From: "divine_seeker" <divine_seeker@...>

Sender: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com

Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 05:41:17 -0000

To: <ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com>

ReplyTo: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [AIA] Relation between Atmakaraka and most suitable meditation

Namasthe,

We have many types of meditation practices like focus on breath, practice of japa, focus on body parts, deep contemplation on the magnanimity of the Lord, feeling grateful etc. Each type would have given great results to certain people (not all). But at the same time, some types would have been hardly effective or even uncomfortable

Is there any significant relation between the Atmakaraka in a person's chart and the most suitable/beneficial type of meditation he can take up? For instance, if Jupiter is the Atmakaraka, focus on breath may be quite in sync.

If there is an established co-relation, that would help anyone who is having difficulty in practice. He can try a switchover and move ahead.

Regards,
Harsha

Reply | Messages in this Topic (9)

#64440

From: "sreesog" <sreesog@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:33 am
Subject: FW: Re: History of Indian Astronomy - An outline (Kalyanaraman, 2012)

sreesog

Send Email

Dear All,
Here is a link to the informative blog www.swamycosmology.wordpress.com that I received from Ramachandran Swaminathan ji.
Love and regards,
Sreenadh
==================

--- On Thu, 4/12/12, ramachandran swaminathan <mannaiswami@...> wrote:

From: ramachandran swaminathan <mannaiswami@...>
Subject: Re: FW: Re: History of Indian Astronomy - An outline (Kalyanaraman, 2012)
To: sreesog@...
Date: Thursday, April 12, 2012, 10:21 AM

Sir.
Kindly log on www.swamycosmology.wordpress.com to know more about the Ancient Indians Geo-centric concept which were derived form the integrated form of the Fixed 27 nakshatras in the cosmos.

With regards,
R.Swaminathan.

==================

Reply | Messages in this Topic (2)

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