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#64429 From: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya@...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:48 pm
Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis and phalita-jyotisha are of Geek origin!
sunil_bhatta...
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear friends,

Glory to Hippocrates and glory to those ancient Hindu scholars whose knowledge went to Hippocrates.

Sunil KB


From: AK Kaul <jyotirved@...>
To: "gopa292002@..." <gopa292002@...>; "hs_sethunathan@..." <hs_sethunathan@...>; "shivashankararao@..." <shivashankararao@...>; "krishlal@..." <krishlal@...>; "gbsub@..." <gbsub@...>; "praspandey@..." <praspandey@...>; "baqayarup@..." <baqayarup@...>; Dr. S. Ramakrishna Sharma <d.ramakrishnan2@...>; V K <vkchoudhry@...>; "bursar_99@..." <bursar_99@...>; "gbp_kumar@..." <gbp_kumar@...>; "gbsub1@..." <gbsub1@...>; Sridhar Govindan <appulali@...>; rohani <jyotish_vani@...>; akandabaratam <akandabaratam@yahoogroups.com>; sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala@...>; Gayatri Devi Vasudev <gayatridevivasudev@...>; "asthikasamaj@yahoogroups.com" <asthikasamaj@yahoogroups.com>; Arun Upadhyay <arunupadhyay30@...>; vedic_research_institute <vedic_research_institute@yahoogroups.com>; dr.p.v.vartak <info@...>; GANTA DIWAKAR <hariom4959@...>; S. Kalyanaraman <kalyan97@...>; Gopal Goel <gkgoel1937@...>; "jyotishgroup@yahoogroups.com" <jyotishgroup@yahoogroups.com>; Sudhir-Architect <ar_sudhirkumar@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 2:31 AM
Subject: [JyotishGroup] Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis and phalita-jyotisha are of Geek origin!

 

http://www.crystalinks.com/hippocrates.html

In Greek antiquity, medicine was second to mathematics. Ancient Greek Civilization was at its peak during the 400's BC. During this period of time, sick people went to the temples dedicated to Asclepius, the Greek god of healing. At this time, a man named Hippocrates began teaching that every disease had only natural causes. He is known as the great ancient Greek physician. In medicine, doctors still refer to the Hippocratic oath, instituted by Hippocrates, who is also credited with laying the foundations of medicine as a science.
Galen built on Hippocrates' theory of the four humors, and his writings became the foundation of medicine in Europe and the Middle East for centuries. The Greek physicians Herophilos and Paulus Aegineta were pioneers in the study of anatomy, while Pedanius Dioscorides wrote an extensive treatise on the practice of pharmacology.
Hippocrates was the first physician known who actually considered medicine to be a science, and to be separate from religion. He wrote the Hippocratic oath, an oath that every new doctor-to-be still says to this day. It reflected Hippocrates high ideals.
Hippocrates of Kos (c. 460 BC­c. 380 BC) was an ancient Greek physician. He has been called "the father of medicine", and is commonly regarded as one of the most outstanding figures in medicine of all time. He was a physician trained at the Dream temple of Kos, and may have been a pupil of Herodicus. Writings attributed to him (Corpus hippocraticum, or "Hippocratic writings") rejected the superstition and magic of primitive "medicine" and laid the foundations of medicine as a branch of science. Little is actually known about Hippocrates's personal life, but some of his medical achievements were documented by such people as Plato and Aristotle.
The Hippocratic writings introduced patient confidentiality, a practice which is still in use today. This was described under the Hippocratic Oath and other treatises. Hippocrates recommended that physicians record their findings and their medicinal methods, so that these records may be passed down and employed by other physicians.Other Hippocratic writings associated personality traits with the relative abundance of the four humours in the body: phlegm, yellow bile, black bile, and blood, and was a major influence on Galen and later on medieval medicine.
The Hippocratic Corpus is a collection of about sixty treatises, most written between 430 BC and AD 200. They are actually a group of texts written by several different people holding several different viewpoints erroneously grouped under the name of Hippocrates, perhaps at the Library of Alexandria. None of the texts included in the Corpus can be considered to have been written by Hippocrates himself, and one of them at least was written by his son-in-law Polybus. The best known of the Hippocratic writings is the Hippocratic Oath; however, this text was most likely not written by Hippocrates himself. A famous, time-honoured medical rule ascribed to Hippocrates is Primum non nocere ("first, do no harm"); another one is Ars longa, vita brevis ("art is long, and life short").
The Hippocratic face is the change produced in the countenance by death, or long sickness, excessive evacuations, excessive hunger, and the like. The nose is pinched, the eyes are sunk, the temples hollow, the ears cold and retracted, the skin of the forehead tense and dry, the complexion livid, the lips pendent, relaxed, and cold. The Hippocratic face is so called because it was first described by Hippocrates.
In medicine, clubbing (or digital clubbing) is a deformity of the fingers and fingernails that is associated with a number of diseases, mostly of the heart and lungs. Idiopathic clubbing can also occur. Hippocrates was probably the first to document clubbing as a sign of disease, and the phenomenon is therefore occasionally called Hippocratic fingers.
Medical astrology is an ancient medical system that associates various parts of the body, diseases, and drugs as under the influence of the Sun, Moon, and planets, along with the twelve astrological signs. Hippocrates, the Greek physician who is regarded as the father of medicine, insisted his students study astrology, saying, "He who does not understand astrology is not a doctor but a fool." Each of the astrological signs (along with the Sun, Moon, and planets) are associated with different parts of the human body. Also, many plants are referred to in old herbals as being "under the influence of" some planet. This was used as a codification of the plants properties and used to create mixtures specific to different diseases.
The associations of the signs with the parts of the body are as follows:
  • Aries - head, face, brain, eyes
  • Taurus - throat, neck, thyroid gland, vocal tract
  • Gemini - arms, lungs, shoulders, hands, nervous sytem
  • Cancer - chest, breasts, stomach, alimentary canal
  • Leo - heart, chest, spine, spinal column, upper back
  • Virgo - digestive system, intestines, spleen, nervous system
  • Libra - kidneys, skin, lumbar region, buttocks
  • Scorpio - reproductive system, sexual organs, bowels, excretory system
  • Sagittarius - hips, thighs, liver, sciatic nerve
  • Capricorn - knees, joints, skeletal system
  • Aquarius - ankles, calves, circulatory systemPisces - feet, toes, lymphatic system, adipose tissue
The Hypocratic bench or scamnum was a device invented by Hippocrates (c. 460 BC­380 BC) which used tension to aid in setting bones. It is a forerunner of the traction devices used in modern orthopedics, as well as of the rack, an instrument of torture. The patient would lie on a bench, at an adjustable angle, and ropes would be tied around his arms, waist, legs or feet, depending on the treatment needed. Winches would then be used to pull the ropes apart, correcting curvature in the spine or separating an overlapping fracture.

The Hippocratic Oath

The Hippocratic Oath is an oath traditionally taken by physicians, in which certain ethical guidelines are laid out. It is thought to be written by Hippocrates by some scholars, but this is disputed and instead thought to be written by the Pythagoreans. One traditional version is below but there are others.
Several parts of the Oath have been removed or re-worded over the years in various countries, schools, and societies but the Oath still remains one of the few elements of medicine that have remained unchanged. Most schools administer some form of oath, but the great majority no longer use this ancient version, which praises pagan gods, advocates teaching of men but not women, and forbids cutting, abortion, and euthanasia. Also missing from the ancient Oath and many modern versions are complex, new ethical landmines such as dealing with HMOs, living wills, and whether morning-after pills are technically closer to prophylactics or an abortion.
I swear by Apollo the physician, and Aesculapius, and Health, and All-heal, and all the gods and goddesses, that, according to my ability and judgment, I will keep this Oath and this stipulation- to reckon him who taught me this Art equally dear to me as my parents, to share my substance with him, and relieve his necessities if required; to look upon his offspring in the same footing as my own brothers, and to teach them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or stipulation; and that by precept, lecture, and every other mode of instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the Art to my own sons, and those of my teachers, and to disciples bound by a stipulation and oath according to the law of medicine, but to none others.
I will follow that system of regimen which, according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patients, and abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous.
I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion. With purity and with holiness I will pass my life and practice my Art.
I will not cut persons laboring under the stone, but will leave this to be done by men who are practitioners of this work. Into whatever houses I enter, I will go into them for the benefit of the sick, and will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief and corruption; and, further from the seduction of females or males, of freemen and slaves.
Whatever, in connection with my professional practice or not, in connection with it, I see or hear, in the life of men, which ought not to be spoken of abroad, I will not divulge, as reckoning that all such should be kept secret.
While I continue to keep this Oath unviolated, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and the practice of the art, respected by all men, in all times! But should I trespass and violate this Oath, may the reverse be my lot!


ShareThis








#64430 From: Hari Malla <harimalla@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:33 am
Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
harimalla...
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Rohiniji,
No sir, I am not trying to sell ayanamsha to the sayan wallahs. I am trying to sell them the lunar sayan system which automatically takes care of  ayanamsha. When we go by the seasons of the lunar months, then we have to shift 30 degrees at a time. That is good enough for the festival purpose. They need not care about ayanamshas. Ayanamsha is only for the phalit folks. Lunar seasons is good enough for them, so they do not shift the vernal equinox every year but every 2000 years considering the lunar shift of seasons...
Thank you anyway for the suggestion .
Hari Malla
 
 
--- On Thu, 4/12/12, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@...> wrote:

From: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@...>
Subject: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
To: JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, April 12, 2012, 1:23 AM

 
Well Hari_malla ji, since ayanamsha seems to have become a big chip on certain, shoulders who dance around the Sidereal Center of Jyotish, with there 6 degrees plus, 6 degrees minus dancing -- although most serious Jyotish-o-phils are dancing within an orb of 2-3 degrees -- your ayanamsha mission would need more work and more fancy foot-steps when you try to sell your ayanamshas to the Sayan-waalahs as our elder brother Kaul_dada calls them, fondly! ;-)

Love, Light, Reality!

Rohiniranjan

--- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Hari Malla <harimalla@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Harsha Indrasenji and Rohiniji,
> For the time being, till the phalit people realize the futility of their present excessive ayanamsha, perhaps, we should give the choice to the indvidual phalit person to decide what pleases him. He may try either with the cordinative ayanamsha or the unnaturally high ayanamsha that the majority are using at the present., But I am sure, with the passage of time, truth will prevail and the people will gradually shift to the cordinative ayanamsha..
> Thanks and regards,
> Hari malla
>
> --- On Wed, 4/11/12, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@...>
> Subject: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
> To: JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, April 11, 2012, 11:06 PM
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Dear Mr. Indrasena_ji,
>
> In one of the threads, probably the one that Hari Malla_ji shared from private exchange between both of you, recently, I believe you stated that the ayanamsha that you are proposing or recommending was not meant for Jyotish, but for fixing festivals and sankrantis etc. This needs a bit more elaboration.
>
> Those who are only interested in phalit jyotish and not so much calendars and festivals -- would they be wasting time and effort if they pursue your recommended/endorsed ayanamsha??
>
> Please respond as we would like to spend time and effort in areas which help phalit jyotish. The need for that is way more urgent and important for most, rather than messing around with calendars etc.
>
> Awaiting your clear and straight-forward response about that specific matter!
>
> Regards,
>
> Rohiniranjan
>
...


#64435 From: "Sunil" <astro_tellerkerala@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:25 am
Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis and phalita-jyotisha are of Geek origin!
astro_teller...
Send Email Send Email
 

dear sunil b Ji 

this is Known as calender masochism in greece medical terms  by stooges which is a self defeating personality disorder 

rgrds sunil nair 


--- In ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya@...> wrote:
>
> Dear friends,
>
> Glory to Hippocrates and glory to those ancient Hindu scholars whose knowledge went to Hippocrates.
>
> Sunil KB
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: AK Kaul jyotirved@...
> To: "gopa292002@..." gopa292002@...; "hs_sethunathan@..." hs_sethunathan@...; "shivashankararao@..." shivashankararao@...; "krishlal@..." krishlal@...; "gbsub@..." gbsub@...; "praspandey@..." praspandey@...; "baqayarup@..." baqayarup@...; Dr. S. Ramakrishna Sharma d.ramakrishnan2@...; V K vkchoudhry@...; "bursar_99@..." bursar_99@...; "gbp_kumar@..." gbp_kumar@...; "gbsub1@..." gbsub1@...; Sridhar Govindan appulali@...; rohani jyotish_vani@...; akandabaratam akandabaratam@yahoogroups.com; sunil nair astro_tellerkerala@...; Gayatri Devi Vasudev gayatridevivasudev@...; "asthikasamaj@yahoogroups.com" asthikasamaj@yahoogroups.com; Arun Upadhyay arunupadhyay30@...; vedic_research_institute vedic_research_institute@yahoogroups.com; dr.p.v.vartak
> info@...; GANTA DIWAKAR hariom4959@...; S. Kalyanaraman kalyan97@...; Gopal Goel gkgoel1937@...; "jyotishgroup@yahoogroups.com" jyotishgroup@yahoogroups.com; Sudhir-Architect ar_sudhirkumar@...
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2012 2:31 AM
> Subject: [JyotishGroup] Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis and phalita-jyotisha are of Geek origin!
>
>
>  
>
>
> http://www.crystalinks.com/hippocrates.html
>
> In Greek antiquity, medicine was second to mathematics. Ancient Greek
> Civilization was at its peak during the 400's BC. During this period of
> time, sick people went to the temples dedicated to Asclepius, the Greek
> god of healing. At this time, a man named Hippocrates began teaching
> that every disease had only natural causes. He is known as the great
> ancient Greek physician. In medicine, doctors still refer to the
> Hippocratic oath, instituted by Hippocrates, who is also credited with
> laying the foundations of medicine as a science.
> Galen built on Hippocrates' theory of the four humors, and his writings
> became the foundation of medicine in Europe and the Middle East for
> centuries. The Greek physicians Herophilos and Paulus Aegineta were
> pioneers in the study of anatomy, while Pedanius Dioscorides wrote an
> extensive treatise on the practice of pharmacology.
> Hippocrates was the first physician known who actually considered
> medicine to be a science, and to be separate from religion. He wrote the Hippocratic oath, an oath that every new doctor-to-be still says to
> this day. It reflected Hippocrates high ideals.
> Hippocrates of Kos (c. 460 BC­c. 380 BC) was an ancient Greek physician. He has been called "the father of medicine", and is commonly regarded
> as one of the most outstanding figures in medicine of all time. He was a physician trained at the Dream temple of Kos, and may have been a pupil of Herodicus. Writings attributed to him (Corpus hippocraticum, or
> "Hippocratic writings") rejected the superstition and magic of primitive "medicine" and laid the foundations of medicine as a branch of science. Little is actually known about Hippocrates's personal life, but some of his medical achievements were documented by such people as Plato and
> Aristotle.
> The Hippocratic writings introduced patient confidentiality, a practice
> which is still in use today. This was described under the Hippocratic
> Oath and other treatises. Hippocrates recommended that physicians record their findings and their medicinal methods, so that these records may
> be passed down and employed by other physicians.Other Hippocratic
> writings associated personality traits with the relative abundance of
> the four humours in the body: phlegm, yellow bile, black bile, and
> blood, and was a major influence on Galen and later on medieval
> medicine.
> The Hippocratic Corpus is a collection of about sixty treatises, most
> written between 430 BC and AD 200. They are actually a group of texts
> written by several different people holding several different viewpoints erroneously grouped under the name of Hippocrates, perhaps at the
> Library of Alexandria. None of the texts included in the Corpus can be
> considered to have been written by Hippocrates himself, and one of them
> at least was written by his son-in-law Polybus. The best known of the
> Hippocratic writings is the Hippocratic Oath; however, this text was
> most likely not written by Hippocrates himself. A famous, time-honoured
> medical rule ascribed to Hippocrates is Primum non nocere ("first, do no harm"); another one is Ars longa, vita brevis ("art is long, and life short").
> The Hippocratic face is the change produced in the countenance by death, or long sickness, excessive evacuations, excessive hunger, and the
> like. The nose is pinched, the eyes are sunk, the temples hollow, the
> ears cold and retracted, the skin of the forehead tense and dry, the
> complexion livid, the lips pendent, relaxed, and cold. The Hippocratic
> face is so called because it was first described by Hippocrates.
> In medicine, clubbing (or digital clubbing) is a deformity of the
> fingers and fingernails that is associated with a number of diseases,
> mostly of the heart and lungs. Idiopathic clubbing can also occur.Hippocrates was probably the first to document clubbing as a sign of
> disease, and the phenomenon is therefore occasionally called Hippocratic fingers.
> Medical astrology is an ancient medical system that associates various
> parts of the body, diseases, and drugs as under the influence of the
> Sun, Moon, and planets, along with the twelve astrological signs.
> Hippocrates, the Greek physician who is regarded as the father of
> medicine, insisted his students study astrology, saying, "He who does
> not understand astrology is not a doctor but a fool." Each of the
> astrological signs (along with the Sun, Moon, and planets) are
> associated with different parts of the human body.Also, many plants are referred to in old herbals as being "under the influence of" some
> planet. This was used as a codification of the plants properties and
> used to create mixtures specific to different diseases.
> The associations
> of the signs with the parts of the body are as follows:
> * Aries - head, face, brain, eyes
> * Taurus - throat, neck, thyroid gland, vocal tract
> * Gemini - arms, lungs, shoulders, hands, nervous sytem
> * Cancer - chest, breasts, stomach, alimentary canal
> * Leo - heart, chest, spine, spinal column, upper back
> * Virgo - digestive system, intestines, spleen, nervous system
> * Libra - kidneys, skin, lumbar region, buttocks
> * Scorpio - reproductive system, sexual organs, bowels, excretory system
> * Sagittarius - hips, thighs, liver, sciatic nerve
> * Capricorn - knees, joints, skeletal system
> * Aquarius - ankles, calves, circulatory systemPisces - feet, toes, lymphatic system, adipose tissue
> The Hypocratic bench or scamnum was a device invented by Hippocrates (c. 460 BC­380 BC) which used tension to aid in setting bones. It is a
> forerunner of the traction devices used in modern orthopedics, as well
> as of the rack, an instrument of torture. The patient would lie on a
> bench, at an adjustable angle, and ropes would be tied around his arms,
> waist, legs or feet, depending on the treatment needed. Winches would
> then be used to pull the ropes apart, correcting curvature in the spine
> or separating an overlapping fracture.
> ________________________________
>
> The Hippocratic Oath
> The Hippocratic Oath is an oath traditionally taken by physicians, in
> which certain ethical guidelines are laid out. It is thought to be
> written by Hippocrates by some scholars, but this is disputed and
> instead thought to be written by the Pythagoreans. One traditional
> version is below but there are others.
> Several parts of the Oath have been removed or re-worded over the years
> in various countries, schools, and societies but the Oath still remains
> one of the few elements of medicine that have remained unchanged. Most
> schools administer some form of oath, but the great majority no longer
> use this ancient version, which praises pagan gods, advocates teaching
> of men but not women, and forbids cutting, abortion, and euthanasia.
> Also missing from the ancient Oath and many modern versions are complex, new ethical landmines such as dealing with HMOs, living wills, and
> whether morning-after pills are technically closer to prophylactics or
> an abortion.
> I swear by Apollo the physician, and Aesculapius, and Health, and
> All-heal, and all the gods and goddesses, that, according to my ability
> and judgment, I will keep this Oath and this stipulation- to reckon him
> who taught me this Art equally dear to me as my parents, to share my
> substance with him, and relieve his necessities if required; to look
> upon his offspring in the same footing as my own brothers, and to teach
> them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or
> stipulation; and that by precept, lecture, and every other mode of
> instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the Art to my own sons, and
> those of my teachers, and to disciples bound by a stipulation and oath
> according to the law of medicine, but to none others.
> I will follow that system of regimen which, according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patients, and abstain from
> whatever is deleterious and mischievous.
> I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to
> produce abortion. With purity and with holiness I will pass my life and
> practice my Art.
> I will not cut persons
> laboring under the stone, but will leave this to be done by men who are
> practitioners of this work. Into whatever houses I enter, I will go into them for the benefit of the sick, and will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief and corruption; and, further from the seduction of
> females or males, of freemen and slaves.
> Whatever, in connection with my
> professional practice or not, in connection with it, I see or hear, in
> the life of men, which ought not to be spoken of abroad, I will not
> divulge, as reckoning that all such should be kept secret.
> While I continue to keep this Oath unviolated, may it be granted to me
> to enjoy life and the practice of the art, respected by all men, in all
> times! But should I trespass and violate this Oath, may the reverse be
> my lot!
>
>
> ShareThis
>
>
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>

#64436 From: "divine_seeker" <divine_seeker@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:41 am
Subject: Relation between Atmakaraka and most suitable meditation
divine_seeker
Send Email Send Email
 
Namasthe,

We have many types of meditation practices like focus on breath, practice of
japa, focus on body parts, deep contemplation on the magnanimity of the Lord,
feeling grateful etc. Each type would have given great results to certain people
(not all). But at the same time, some types would have been hardly effective or
even uncomfortable

Is there any significant relation between the Atmakaraka in a person's chart and
the most suitable/beneficial type of meditation he can take up? For instance, if
Jupiter is the Atmakaraka, focus on breath may be quite in sync.

If there is an established co-relation, that would help anyone who is having
difficulty in practice. He can try a switchover and move ahead.

Regards,
Harsha

#64439 From: vchiranjiv@...
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:32 am
Subject: Re: [AIA] Relation between Atmakaraka and most suitable meditation
vchiranjiv
Send Email Send Email
 
In hindu philosophy the unlimited qualities of the mighty are represented by the various Gods and the trinity have the overall chargeship of the subgroups.
Based on the position of the char atmakaraka and the position of various planets to it in the navamsa chart, the diety to be worshipped and meditated is determined. This is in addition to your Ishtadevta who is like the presiding family diety and like the rep of God assigned to one's family, clan etc.
This is as per an article I read in a Gujrati panchanga. (Broken language knowledge only).
however these are just steps in the worship - attempting to take the individual thru known routes initially.

Regards



Sent on my BlackBerry from Vodafone

From: "divine_seeker" <divine_seeker@...>
Sender: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 05:41:17 -0000
To: <ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AIA] Relation between Atmakaraka and most suitable meditation

 

Namasthe,

We have many types of meditation practices like focus on breath, practice of japa, focus on body parts, deep contemplation on the magnanimity of the Lord, feeling grateful etc. Each type would have given great results to certain people (not all). But at the same time, some types would have been hardly effective or even uncomfortable

Is there any significant relation between the Atmakaraka in a person's chart and the most suitable/beneficial type of meditation he can take up? For instance, if Jupiter is the Atmakaraka, focus on breath may be quite in sync.

If there is an established co-relation, that would help anyone who is having difficulty in practice. He can try a switchover and move ahead.

Regards,
Harsha


#64440 From: "sreesog" <sreesog@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:33 am
Subject: FW: Re: History of Indian Astronomy - An outline (Kalyanaraman, 2012)
sreesog
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear All,
  Here is a link to the informative blog www.swamycosmology.wordpress.com  that I received from Ramachandran Swaminathan ji.
Love and regards,
Sreenadh

==================

--- On Thu, 4/12/12, ramachandran swaminathan <mannaiswami@...> wrote:

From: ramachandran swaminathan <mannaiswami@...>
Subject: Re: FW: Re: History of Indian Astronomy - An outline (Kalyanaraman, 2012)
To: sreesog@...
Date: Thursday, April 12, 2012, 10:21 AM

 Sir.
       Kindly log on www.swamycosmology.wordpress.com to know more about the Ancient Indians Geo-centric concept which were derived form the integrated form of the Fixed 27 nakshatras in the cosmos.
With regards,
R.Swaminathan.

==================

#64447 From: Dhananjayan Brahma <abhanaya@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:08 am
Subject: Fw: This is why you're so tired at the end of the day!!
abhanaya
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This is why you're so tired at the end of the day!!


 
 

  

Age Activated Attention Disorder 
I laughed at this until I realized that this is exactly what I do.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=6oHBG3ABUJU&vq=medium<http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=6oHBG3ABUJU&vq=medium>  
      
 
 

 

 










--

"  Anger is the only thing to put off till tomorrow. " - Czech proverb


#64448 From: Sreenadh OG <sreesog@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:09 am
Subject: Apollonius of Tyana, the Philosopher-Reformer of the First Century A.D.
sreesog
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Dear All,
  This is an article by our fellow member Chakra ji posted in his blog at:http://chakra37.blogspot.in/2012/04/apollonius-of-tyana-philosopher.html
Love and regards,
Sreenadh
====================

Apollonius of Tyana, the Philosopher-Reformer of the First Century A.D.

Book Review: Apollonius of Tyana, the Philosopher-Reformer of the First Century A.D. by George Robert Stowe Mead (Theosophical Publishing Society– 1901)

Mead translated and commented on several books of the Hermetic and related traditions. This one was actually a good read about Apollonius of Tyana who was thought to be Pythagorean by training but who traveled all over the known world as a sage penetrating philosophical and religious communities from Hellenistic lands to Babylon, Spain, Rome, Asia Minor, Persia, Egypt, Ethiopia, and India. He was said to have greatly admired the Indians who Mead identifies as Buddhists. He likely would have met Graeco-Buddhists on the way to India.

Apollonius lived in the first century during the height of the Roman Empire. He was quite famous during his time and shortly after as there were several accounts of his live and exploits. Of course, not long after this when Christianity came to full power, as a rival philosophical icon, he was pronounced a heretic and charlatan. Miracles and magic attributed to him were devilized. Mead notes the general religious tolerance of the Romans and points out that any oppression against groups was mainly for political reasons – even Nero’s expulsion of philosophers really had to do with those who advocated a return to the Republic.

Apollonius was said to have spent great effort on trying to reform the various religious cults of the time. Mead thought that the charges of depravity of the Roman cults were over-stressed by the later Christian-biased historians. He does think that there were some definite excesses but that much had to do with the rites dwindling into rote social functions (similar to many modern cults). State cults, such as the Eleuisinian Mysteries were thought to have become perfunctory as well and void of deeper meaning for the participants as in ages past. Other cults and particularly secret societies had much more stringent entry requirements and vows of secrecy. Since Ancient Greek times the Pythagoreans and the Orphics (with which they blended) were associated with discipline, morality, and respected for sage-like qualities. It was they who were known reformers of the Bacchic-Eleusinian rites. By the first century A.D. there were still Orphics and Pythagoreans but also Therapeuts, Essenes, Gnostics, and Hermetics, especially around Alexandria, Egypt. These brotherhoods were numerous and scattered but also generally secretive so very few records remain of their dispositions and practices. Much of their work was undoubtedly destroyed by later Christian and Islamic peoples.

Pythagoras was said by Neo-Pythagoreans (after the time of Apollonius) to have visited India, over 500 years before Apollonius. Questions of the influence of Brahmanism and Buddhism on the Orphics, Pythagoreans, and the other brotherhoods abound. The Indian Buddhist King Ashoka in the 3rd century BC is known to have sent missionaries to Syria, Macedonia, Egypt, and Asia Minor. Communities of Indians were known to have lived in Egypt since before that time. Whether this had any influence is unknown but Mead notes similarities from the Hermes Trismegistus literature to that of the Upanishads. In any case it is unknown whether Indian ideas influenced the philosophical-religious brotherhoods of the Middle East and the West or even how much Pythagoreanism and Orphism influenced the Essenes and Gnostics. Certainly there was some scant knowledge of Vedanta and Dharma among the most philosophically-seeking of the ancient Greeks especially after the time of Alexander when contacts were well established and Greek communities mixed with Brahman and Buddhist communities in the greater-Bactrian regions. This is a fascinating time and place of much iconography and Gandharan Buddhist and hybrid texts are yet being discovered. Apollonius is recorded by a biographer and long-time companion of his who traveled along with him to India.

Mead gives an overview of much of the references to Apollonius in classical literature and beyond the Renaissance. Clearly, Apollonius was the most famous philosopher of his time and was even regarded by some as a god-like figure. He was condemned by Christian authors as his deeds rivaled those of Jesus himself. The most well known and detailed account of Apollonius of Tyana was composed by Philostratus – the Life of Apollonius. Monuments and statues of Apollonius were recorded as having been made. Vopiscus, Soterichus, Nicomachus, and Victorianus also wrote biographies of Apollonius. Those four accounts were lost. Porphry and Iamblichus both mention Apollonius as a source in their accounts of the early Pythagoreans. Beginning in the fourth century the various Christian accounts of Apollonius demonized him and even called him a plagiarizer of Christ, though he was also sometimes classified as one among the Magi. Generally the Neo-platonists of the Renaissance looked favorably on Apollonius as a key Pythagorean of their tradition. I think he is even considered a Gnostic saint in the current Ordo Templi Orientis.

The account of Philostratus (175-245 AD), a rhetorician near to the philosopher-empress Julia Domna, the Syrian wife of emperor Septimius Severus, is the key source. Domna Julia requested that he write the Life of Apollonius of Tyana and provided him with notes from accounts by Damis, a long-time companion of Apollonius. Philostratus also mentions traveling around collecting the various sayings and accounts of Apollonius. Mead mentions the difficulty of separating original accounts from the typically Roman glosses of the writer of the account. This gloss of incorporating legend into accounts was expected of the Roman authors. According to Mead:

“To Apollonius the mere fashion of a man’s faith was unessential; he was at home in all lands, among all cults. He had a helpful word for all, an intimate knowledge of the particular way of each of them, which enabled him to restore them to health. Such men are rare; the records of such men are precious, and require the embellishments of no rhetorician.”

Apollonius was born in Tyana, a city in Cappadocia in the central part of Anatolia. He studied in Tarsus and Aegae on the southern coast. He was said to have an extraordinary memory and studied Platonic, Stoic, Peripatetic, and Epicurean schools of philosophy and worked with the priests of healing temple of Asklepios. He is said to have had a special affinity for Pythagorean philosophy and learned initially from his teacher Euxenes. He adopted the Pythagorean forms of asceticism: avoiding dead things, ate only fruits and vegetables, abstained from wine, went barefoot, let his hair grow long, and wore nothing but linen. Still quite young he then lived in the Asklepian temple. After the death of his parents he shared the fortune with his brother and later gave more to his brother who had squandered his share. After restoring the family situation he returned to the temple in Aegeas and undertook a 5 year vow of silence. He traveled from city to city at this time and endured ridicule for his strange appearance. At these times he is said to have thought to himself, “ Heart, be patient, and thou, my tongue, be still.” These early accounts of Apollonius are thought to have come from Maximus of Aegea.

After this there is a gap and presumably, according to Mead, the account takes up again after a gap of some 15 or 20 years with the account of Damis. Apollonius is thought to have traveled around Arabia and greater Babylonia during this time after his vow of silence was up. Mead suggests an esoteric sort of freemasonry was about that allowed him to travel and be welcomed at various temples and communities. He is said to have adhered to a regular practice of religious exercises alone at sunrise after which he would converse with priests or leaders wherever he was, teaching and conferring with the initiated. After mid-day he would be available to all and any people seeking instruction, often in practical affairs.  In the evening he is said to have bathed in cold water like the Essenes and Therapeuts.

After this time he traveled to Ninus (formerly Nineveh) in Mesopotamia and met with Damis, who would be his traveling companion, but apparently an uninitiated and distant student. This is perhaps unfortunate for us but perhaps deliberate for Apollonius. From here he is said to have traveled to Babylon and stayed in the general region for nearly two years, then to Ecbatana in Media (northern Persia) and then on towards India through Taxila to the Indus and on to the valley of the Ganges staying for four months among the “monastery of the wise men.” This Ganges region (possibly in Nepal) was very likely a Buddhist region at this time. After returning to Babylon he went north again to Cyprus and Asia Minor, especially spending time at Ephesus, Troy, and Smyrna. Then it was on to Lesbos and Athens. In Greece he spent some time visiting and working on reforms of temple practices. After a stint in Crete he went to Rome. He was said to be in Rome in 66 AD when Nero issued his decree expelling all philosophers. From here he traveled to Spain to the city of Cadiz. After this he went to North Africa and Sicily. After this it was Rhodes and then to Alexandria where he was said to have stayed a while visiting with the future Roman Emperor Vespasian. Then he traveled up the Nile to so-called Ethiopia to visit the so-called “Gymnosophists,” the naked philosophers which some have equated as an Indian community. He is also said to have visited Phoenicians, Cilicians, Ionians, and Achaeans, then to Tarsus to meet with the new Roman Emperor Titus and back to Alexandria. He went to Rome to confront the new suspicious Emperor Domitian around 81 AD. Here he was tried but acquitted. Aside from these detailed time periods in his life there were large gaps as well. After he was acquitted in Rome (around 93 AD) he went back to Ephesus and Smyrna, sent Damis to Rome on business, and then he disappears from the pages of history.

Apollonius was for a long time among the Asklepian dream healing priests in Hellenic Asia Minor and Greece and was no doubt adept in the methods. He was said to have spent much time with the Babylonian Magi, about which to Damis he is said to have noted, “They are wise, but not in all things.” There is mention of the “Iygges” which the Magi called the “the four golden tongues of the gods’ or the winged wheels connected with Fate. These are thought to have possibly been the heavenly wheels described by Ezekiel and possibly the living spheres used in Hecate magic. Of his time in India we have only this quote from him given by Damis:

“I saw men dwelling on the earth and yet not on it, defended on all sides, yet without any defence, and yet possessed of nothing but what all possess.”

Apollonius is known to have visited the Temple of Aphrodite at Paphos. He is said to have stayed there for some time. He is said to have spent a night alone at the tomb of Achilles at Troy, afterwards visiting Thessaly to urge them to re-establish the veneration of the hero.  He said to have taught at the great Asklepian dream healing temple at Pergamos in Asia Minor. He is said to have received in vision from Achilles where to find a statue of Palamedes (an earlier hero associated with the development of letters) which he is said to have found and restored. He visited the ancient Orphic temple at Lesbos. He went to Athens and presented himself for initiation into the Eleusinian Mysteries. He was rebuked by a paranoid hierophant who quickly recanted but yet waited to be initiated by the next hierophant four years later. He is said to have spoken against the effeminacy of the Bacchanalia and the barbarism of gladiatorial combat. He visited many of the most ancient temples of Greece, restoring and consecrating temples and rites. He praised the Olympic games and recommended the Spartans to reinstitute their training methods. He is said to have avoided the Labyrith at Knossus when visiting Crete, possibly due to its one time use as a place of human sacrifice. Again in Alexandria he is said to have disdained blood-sacrifice (at the temple of Serapis?) by substitution of frankincence modeled into the form of the victim. He also sought to reform the wild excitement over horse racing that often led to violence in Alexandria. He is thought to have spent much of his life in Egypt including the long journey to Ethiopia. Apollonius is also credited with driving away unscrupulous Chaldean and Egyptian charlatans who “trafficked in the misfortunes of others.”

Damis mentions the trip to Ethiopia and their time spent among the Gymnosophists there, the naked ascetics with possible links to India. Apollonius seemed to indicate that these communities in southern Egypt and northern Ethiopia were of forgotten Indian origin. Apparently there were legends among them of their Indian origins. Mead seems to think that they were once Buddhists ascetics. 

The so-called miracles of Apollonius were mainly psychic visions, divinations, and healings attributed to him. Foreknowledge of events was a practice and subject in which Apollonius was very interested. Divination was apparently for him a spiritual practice. Communion with the “daemon” or higher self was a chief feature of the Pythagorean philosophers who were more natural mages than rhetorical philosophers. Thus he distinguished his foreknowledge as coming from a deeper or higher source than that of everyday soothsayers. Even though many miraculous healings were attributed to him he is also known to have favored rational scientific explanations over mythical ones, particularly for natural phenomena like earthquakes and tidal waves.

Apollonius practiced the Pythagorean asceticism of vegetarianism, avoiding wearing of animals, blood sacrifice, wine, and sex or marriage. He stated that Pythagoras said that he learned these practices from Indians. Apollonius did not seek to impose these restrictions on others lest they wished to be admitted to the inner circle of initiates. Damis was fine with meat and wine. Apollonius was aid to pray at sunrise, mid-day, and sundown. He was said to be prepared for death in the manner of a warrior prepared to die for the sake of philosophy. Indeed he thought it the duty of a sage to be prepared to die for his principles. Apollonius was said to be beautiful, mild, gentle, and modest but not without force when indignant. He was said to be pensive and often absorbed in meditation and focus. He was harsh with himself but gentle with others, not given to blame and complaint. He had some followers and even one among the Gymnosophists, but no specific school did he bequeath. As to Damis, he did give him these words:

“Damis, whenever you think on high matters in solitary meditation, you shall see me.”

After this and his encounters with the Indians where he stated his goal of similar communication through meditation at a distance we see that this telepathy was an interest and practice of Apollonius.

Regarding prayer and relationships to gods, Apollonius is said to have favored the gods as dispensers of justice and suggested that we pray for what is our due. He favored having little and few needs. He is said to have prayed for peace and honesty in the world. He praised the qualities of generosity, cooperation, and equality.

In a Socratic-style dialogue with Thespesion, abbot of the Gymnosophists, regarding a comparison of the Greek and Egyptian conceptions of gods, Apollonius is said to have uttered the following:

(regarding whether the gods were envisioned by imitation or imagination)

“Imagination wrought them – a workmen wiser far than imitation; for imitation only makes what it has seen, whereas imagination makes what it has never seen, conceiving it with reference to the thing it really is.”

He praised imagination as a way of bringing us closer to ideals.

Many sayings and stories are attributed to Apollonius, some in a small collection of his letters to various public officials. To Spartan officials went the following saying:

“It is possible for men not to make mistakes, but it requires noble men to acknowledge they have made them.”

In a letter to Criton he says:

“Pythagoras said that the most divine art was that of healing. And if the healing art is most divine, it must occupy itself with the soul as well as with the body; for no creature can be sound so long as the higher part in it is sickly.”

Apollonius is said to have written some widely circulated treatises, of which only a few fragments have survived. One text is called – The Mystic Rites, or Concerning Sacrifices, of which there are known fragments. In one part the following quote, showing the Pythagorean/Platonic Monism/Monotheism, is attributed to him:

“Tis best to make no sacrifice to God at all, no lighting of a fire, no calling Him by any name that men employ for things of sense. For God is over all, the first; and only after Him do come the other Gods. For He doth stand in need of naught e’en from the Gods, much less from us small men – naught that the earth brings forth, nor any life she nurseth, or even any thing the stainless air contains. The only fitting sacrifice to God is man’s best reason, and not the word that comes from his mouth.”

Other texts attributed to him include – the Oracles Concerning Divination, a rare work said to be based on whet he learned in India, The Life of Pythagoras (utilized by both Porphry and Iamblichus), the Will of Apollonius (his doctrines), a Hymn to Memory, and apparently many others.

Concerning the requirements of becoming his student these words are attributed:

“If any say he is my disciple, then let him add he keeps himself apart out of the Baths, he slays no living thing, eats of no flesh, is free from envy, malice, hatred, columny, and hostile feelings, but has his name inscribed among the race of those who’ve won their freedom.”

There is a long letter to consul Valerius about death and the wisdom of overcoming grief.

Here he describes life as “becoming” and death as ‘being’ and notes that life is the state of being seen or visible (in the dense realm being filled with matter) and death is the state of being unseen or invisible (in the subtle realms of ‘primal being’ void of matter ). Life is motion and death is rest.

“For being has this necessary peculiarity, that its change is brought about by nothing external to itself; but whole becomes parts and parts become whole in the oneness of the all.”

Here he explains that death is not a destruction of one’s nature but a change of state.

Interestingly he also explains in this letter brimming with wise sincerity that it is simply selfish to overly grieve and seek to change that which cannot be changed.

It should be noted that Mead’s account is based mainly on the biography by Philostratus but contains only short excerpts and descriptions from it. It is a useful read and I look forward to reading some of Mead’s texts regarding Gnosticism and Hermeticism.

====================

#64449 From: Sreenadh OG <sreesog@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:13 am
Subject: The Sufis - by Idries Shah
sreesog
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Dear All,
  The following is from the blog of our fellow member Chakra ji at: http://chakra37.blogspot.in/2012/03/sufis-by-idries-shah.html
Love and regards,
Sreenadh
=====================

The Sufis - by Idries Shah

Book Review: The Sufis by Idries Shah

This has got to be the quintessential book about the Sufis, their lore, and their history. It is quite comprehensive and represents an admirable survey of a vast topic. The Sufis are hard to confine into an easy classification. They are often considered an Islamic sect but as Shah points out they are not exclusively associated with Islam. It is just that they so happened to reach their greatest flowering among Islamic societies. There are Christian Sufis and secular Sufis and Sufis influenced by various paganisms, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and even shamanism. The Sufis inherited much of the Neo-platonic tradition and alchemical lore of Alexandria which was quite well developed.

This book is a gem of lore, of keys to cryptic Sufi customs, of teachings, and of the little know influence of the Sufis on various Western traditions – particularly those that came through the Spanish Arabs known as the Saracens. The Sufi traditions and literature are extensive, appearing in many places and times from the Islamic period onwards and  having sources previous to the Islamic period. Though Shah suggests Sufism as a kind of Universal Esotericism there are quite potent cultural and religious influences as well in various places and times. In most cases it accords with an inner version of Islam but often there was discord between this inner form and the outer exoteric forms of Islamic theology. Some Sufis were beloved of Islamic rulers and scholars, others were persecuted and martyred. According to Shah in the early days of Sufism it was important to speak allegiance to Islamic theology in order to be left alone. The Wisdom traditions of the Egyptian, Persian, and Byzantine empires were able to reconfigure at least somewhat in Sufic forms. Sufism certainly re-gathered the alchemical and Neoplatonic traditions that would later fuel the Renaissance.

Shah warns against classifying Sufism in specific ways, suggesting that it is an esoteric form that appears to fill a need, arising, flourishing, and disappearing as needed. Throughout the book he examines and expounds various Sufi word plays based on multiple and alternative word meanings in Arabic, but occasionally extending to other languages as well such as Persian and Spanish. Indeed the word ‘sufi’ seems to have a resemblance to the Greek word for wisdom ‘sophia.’ Even so, Sufism is more mystical than philosophical so preaching and debating about concepts and precepts are typically not a feature. Sufism is esoteric and mystical and so symbolic and suggestive rather than a literal tradition as the main forms of both Islam and Christianity have become. He suggests Sufism as a perennial tradition where comparisons were made among mystics of different types and sects. Shah notes the Sufi psychological views of Ghazali and Ibn El-Arabi as being legitimate precursors of the ideas of Freud and Jung. It cannot be denied that the Sufi schools and wisdom societies were the models for freemasonry and other traditions of the Middle Ages.


Shah gives detailed chapters on the most famous Sufi teachers and societies. The first is on the Mulla Nasrudin. I read these stories when I was in college from beautifully illustrated books and enjoyed them. Nasrudin was wise, witty, courageous, practical, and utterly hilarious at times. These are clever tales, often referred to as “subtleties.” They date from the 13th century or earlier and have certainly influenced later tales such as those of Don Quixote, whose Arabic origins are established, and some of those stories are the same stories as Nasrudin tales. Nasrudin doesn’t have a history, only stories. Thus he is sometimes considered a figure concocted by the dervishes. Here is a quick tale that Shah relates:


“Nasrudin used to take his donkey across the frontier every day, with the panniers loaded with straw. Since he admitted to being a smuggler when he trudged home every night, the frontier guards searched him again and again. They searched his person, sifted the straw, steeped it in water, even burned it from time to time. Meanwhile he was becoming visibly more and more prosperous.


  “Then he retired and went to live in another country. Here one of the customs officers met him, years later.


   “You can tell me now, Nasrudin,” he said. “Whatever was it that you were smuggling, when we could never catch you out?”


   “Donkeys,” said Nasrudin.


These stories are reputed to have many meanings. The Nasrudin tales do show a similarity to Zen koans and Shah would have us believe that Sufis influenced Zen, which is possible but not at all established.


“It is believed that the mystical effect of seven Nasrudin tales, studied in succession, is enough to prepare an individual for enlightenment.”


Shah goes through many of these tales and provides Sufi interpretations.


“When a Nasrudin tale is read and digested, something is happening. It is this consciousness of happening and continuity which is central to Sufism.”


Nasrudin is certainly a version of the fool, the jokester, the trickster and one of the best and most effective versions. I can only recommend the enjoyment of reading and studying these tales.


Sheikh Saadi of Shiraz (1184-1291) is the next Sufi portrayed. His writings include The Gulistan (Rose Garden) and the Bustan (Orchard) and the – Scroll of Wisdom. According to Shah he had a strong influence on European literature, his works first being translated in the West in the 17th century. His works are said to be allegorical (as are many Sufi works) and to have especially influenced European allegory. Saadi notes in the Gulistan that:


“A conference of the wise is like the bazaar of the clothsellers. In the latter place you cannot take away anything unless you pay money. In the former, you can only carry away that for which you have the capacity.”


Saadi was one of Persia’s most famous poets and his tales are in moral allegories. The Gulistan is said to be the most widely read text of Persian literature and is thought to be especially suitable for youths as a preparation for later entering the Sufi path.


Next we have Fariduddin Attar, the Chemist. He wrote the famed Parliament of the Birds which Shah calls a forerunner of Pilgrim’s Progress. He also notes parallels of the Order of the Garter to Attar’s Sufism. Attar studied the biographies of previous Sufi teachers. He wrote about them in a work known as the Recital of the Saints. He is said to have been killed as an old man by invading Mongols (with a story there as well). The traversing of the seven valleys in The Parliament of the Birds is considered to be allegorical of Sufic development. These are the valleys of quest, love, intuitive knowledge, detachment, unification, astonishment, and death. Shah gives some interesting commentary on these stages. Attar was an organizer of Sufi knowledge and schools. Rumi is said to have visited him when Attar was an old man. Shah goes through the secret symbolism of Attar’s name through the Abjad system where numbers are attributed to letters in Arabic similar to the gematria of Qabalah. He deciphers hidden word allegories in Attar’s works as well. The aim of the Sufi is to manifest the “Complete Man’ or “Perfected Being” as an enlightened state. This is akin to and directly related to the “Great Work” of alchemy and the Western Esoteric traditions.


The next master is the famed Jalaluddin Rumi, maker of thousands of profound poems. He lived in Asia Minor and his works were written in Persian. Rumi died in 1273. Rumi as well as Attar’s Parliament of the Birds directly influenced Chaucer and his Canterbury Tales. Although Rumi is counted among the greatest of poets from those who have read his works translated into English and other languages, Shah says they are even greater in the original Persian, fostering exalted states. He lists the most famous works of Rumi such as – The Spiritual Couplets. Rumi was a major influence on the Dervish schools. Rumi was not fond of dogma and promoted religious tolerance. Rumi’s poetry is full of aphorisms and practicality concerning the psychological and spiritual quest. Rumi was associated with the Mevlevi Order of dervishes. Rumi stressed that his poetry was a gift to others, particularly for their understanding: “What, after all, is my concern with poetry?” He saw his poetical work as being a good host to his guests. Here is a quote from Rumi about his search for Truth (or God) through examining different beliefs:


“Cross and Christians, end to end, I examined. He was not on the Cross. I went to the Hindu temple, to the ancient pagoda. In neither was there any sign. To the heights of Herat I went, and Kandahar. I looked. He was not on height or lowland. Resolutely, I went to the top of the Mountain of Kaf. There only was the place of the ‘Anqa bird. I went to the Kaaba. He was not there. I asked of his state from Ibn Sina: he was beyond the limits of the philosopher Avicenna… I looked into my own heart. In that place I saw him. He was in no other place…”


Ibn El-Arabi, the ‘greatest master’ was the most famous Spanish Sufi. He was from a Sufi family and his education was from the rich academic tradition of 12th century Moorish Spain. Shah notes that:


“According to Sufi tradition, Ibn El-Arabi’s mission was to “scatter” Sufi lore throughout the contemporary scene, connecting it with the existing traditions of the people.”


El-Arabi, like Rumi, was a master of mystical love poetry: “The sight of God in woman is the most perfect of all.”


El-Arabi was known for cultivation of the dream state:


“A person must control his thoughts in a dream. The training of this alertness will produce awareness of the intermediate dimension. It will produce great benefits for the individual.”


El-Arabi stressed Mohammed as the ‘perfected man.’ He spoke of not Mohammed the prophet but of Mohammed as the universal prophet, which includes all prophets – as a divine archetype. Jesus as the Logos and Mohammed as the Reality of Mohammed have a similar source, says Shah. Certainly the Jesus as Logos idea is Gnostic in origin. El-Arabi’s poetry has been described as sublime, full of fantastic imagery, and multiple meanings. His work has also been described as theosophical and full of metaphysical paradoxes. He was well loved and had a following but was also controversial and sometimes branded a heretic. He says of the universal esoteric form - of love, thus:


“My heart is capable of every form:
A cloister for the monk, a fane for idols,
A pasture for gazelles, the votary’s Ka’ba (temple),
The tables of the Torah, the Quran.
Love is the creed I hold: wherever turn
His camels, Love is still my creed and faith.”


El-Ghazali of Persia was known as – the Spinner, as most Sufis adopted a work title, acknowledging the value of trades. He was an orphan brought up by Sufis. He was also known as Algazel. He is said to have influenced St. Thomas of Aquinas and St. Francis of Assisi. He is said to have further merged Sufism with Islam. He spent the requisite 12 years wandering and meditating that was the habit of the dervishes (and incidentally also of the tantric mahasiddhas). He was concerned with the alchemical transmutation of the human mind and not with intellectualism and scholasticism. He is said to have stressed experience rather than learning. Geber (Jabir the Sufi) was said to be the first Sufi. It was Geber that is connected to the preservation and transmission of the lore of alchemy. El-Ghazali’s books were burned in Moslem Spain but later he was acknowledged as a great teacher.


The works of Omar Khayyam, particularly his Rubaiyat is famous throughout the world – and in English translation by Fitzgerald. Shah notes that Khayyam was not well-known among non-Sufis even in Persian until after his works were translated and made popular in Western languages. He became very popular in England. Shah indicates his value as a Sufi teacher though he was not as well known in Islamic lands as the others.


Next he goes through the secret language of the Sufis based on the Abjab method of Arabic gematria. It seems one would have to know the language and be initiated into the codes, perhaps knowing Persian as well. He mentions a secret society called the “Coalmen” which in Italy was called the Carbonari, or ‘charcoal burners.’ Since the last of the Moors were expelled from Spain in 1601 many likely went underground to different places in Europe. Another secret society was called ‘the Builders.’ According to Sir Richard Burton, a prominent English Sufi, these were the Oriental parents of freemasonry. The level, the square, and the letter G – of masonry – can all be logically traced to Arabic origins. The so-called “Scottish Rite” may have a different meaning since Shah notes that ‘Scotland’ was a code for ‘Spain.’ The Masonic G, he says, is the Arabic Q. He goes through a lot of this lore. He notes that the color black was associated with wisdom due to Arabic word associations and this can explain a lot of manifestations of  black icons like the black virgins of the Middle Ages, the black stone of Mecca, the black head of Baphomet, etc. The Islamic alchemy from Hermes Trismegistus in cosmopolitan Alexandria through the Islamic alchemy of Geber to the Taost alchemy of China and the Christianized alchemy of the Rosicrucians and Renaissance magicians all likely intermingled through these Medieval secret societies of Sufi type. The symbolisms of Sufism and alchemy had much overlap. One of El-Arabi’s famous texts was called – the Alchemy of Happiness. Sulphur and Mercury and the Philosopher’s Stone were key components of Sufi alchemy. Geber (Jabir) the alchemist was said to be a close companion of the Barmecides – the barmakis – said to have been descended ‘from the priests of Afghan Buddhist shrines.” Sufi lore states that alchemy was transmitted through Dhu’l-Nun the Egyptian, the Lord of the Fish, a famous Sufi teacher. So in terms of the alchemical tradition the hybrid of Hermes-Thoth (and Mercury) is considered an early master of the Sufis. So Hermetic magic and Sufism share similar origins. Shah does acknowledge the earlier origins of alchemy in the Vedic elixir traditions and also rightly notes that the alchemy of the Taoists is an offshoot of the same traditions. Dante is even given in Sufic alchemical lineages as his work is well known to have Sufi influence. The same can be said of Bacon and Raymond Lully who pioneered Renaissance alchemy. The mage Agrippa is also known of the Sufis.


An interesting part of the book is the association of Moorish/Saracen traditions with European witch lore. Frenzied dancing of people under the influence of hallucinogenic plants could be traced to Saracens. The waltz (thought to have come to Europe through the Balkans) and the dibka, or Middle Eastern ring dance are thought to have come from them as well. Shah suggests that the so-called witch’s Sabbat comes not from the Hebrew word Sabbath but from the similar Arabic word – Az-ZABAT. The word ‘Athame’ he says, may have come from the Arabic Adh-dhame. The word ‘coven’ may well derive from the Hispano-Semitic kafan – referring to a shroud over the heads of “Revelers’.


Shah mentions the Aniza Bedouin clan as the bringers of Witchcraft and the Middle Eastern round dance to the West. He notes that these were likely pre-Islamic Bedouin traditions of desert areas. He associates them to the Cult of the Revelers – known to have been in the Syrian desert areas since at least the 700’s AD. The disciples of a great Aniza teacher were known as the ‘Wise Ones.’ The word ‘Aniza’ refers to the goat as a tribal symbol:

“A torch between goat horns (“the devil” in Spain, as it later became) symbolized for them the light of illumination from the intellect (head) of the “goat,” the Aniza teacher.

He equates the Bedouin tattoos with so-called witch’s marks and the use of the symbol of the goosefoot to represent a secret meeting place. Other strange relations of Sufi and European lore are the practice of the code of Chivalry which is well known to have come from the Saracens. The troubadours of the Middle Ages brought Arabian musical forms and love poetry. The Order of the Garter (of St. George) or the Sufic St Khidr is a cult that originated in Syria and became manifested among English royalty. Morris dancing is thought to have come to England and Holland from the Saracens of Spain – thus Moorish dancing. Before that they may have come from Arab Sufis. The figure of the jester, the fool, the harlequin is also thought to have been Moorish. The mystical head of wisdom associated with the Baphomet of the Templars is also thought to have referred to a Sufi custom of ‘making a head’ referring to pursuit of spiritual development. Albertus Magnus was said to have spent years constructing a marvelous brass head. Shah notes that the Spanish Arabic word bufihamat meant ‘father of understanding’ and as well Baphomet may have been connected to Mahomet (Mohammad) as the ‘perfected man.’ Albertus Magnus was thought to be well-versed in Sufic and Saracen lore. He suggests that the cross-quarter witch holidays: May1, Aug 1, Nov 1, Feb 2 came as well from the Aniza and other Arabs. He also attributes the widdershins (counter-clockwise) circumambulation of the witches as being sourced among Arabs who circle the Kaaba in this fashion.

Shah traces the influence of Sufi teachers and Saracen troubadours on St. Francis of Assisi and his subsequent Franciscan order of Christian contemplatives. Shah suggests other general communications of Sufic and Christian mystics – those interested in illumination beyond mere dogma. Even Shakespeare could be seen as Sheik peer in Persian.

Shah devotes a chapter to the Western Sufi – Sir Richard Burton – who also used an Arabic pseudonym. He translated works but is thought to have written some as well including the Kasidah – The Tinkling of the Camel Bell. He says Burton commented on Western methods of thought and philosophy from a Sufic point of view. The Kasidah is great contemplative poetry. Shah provides plenty of excerpts and I plan to read it soon as well.

“You are all right, you are all wrong,” we hear the careless Sufi say,
For each believes his glimm’ring lamp to be the gorgeous light of day”

Sheikh Shahabudin Suhrawardi (1145-1235) was a great teacher and organizer of Sufi Dervish methods and originator of the Suhrawardi Order. Colonel Wilburforce Clarke translated one of his works – The Gifts. Clarke gives one Sufi saying meaning that Sufis tended to shun asceticism and monasticism but to practice within every day life:

“Neither fear we hell, nor desire we heaven.”

Sufis are respected and associated with the ‘sincerity’ of the wise – by the common people and so the teacher is said to encourage the development of this sincerity among the students. He lists three stages of Dervish dwellers: People of Service who serve other dwellers, People of Society who work and bond through assemblies, and People of Retirement – those of age who spend more time in solitude. Dervishes traditionally spend time traveling: travelling within, traveling in one’s own land, and traveling to other lands.

Shah goes through many dervish customs and mystical philosophy. He mentions the Science of State (hal) where various ecstatic states are catalogued and practiced. The Baraka, or mystical grace-force-essence is key to the dervishes. There is also the Baraka of the Order or School itself – mostly carried by the teachers.  The ten veils, or ‘blameable qualities’ are given as: desire, separation (rationalization), hypocrisy, desire for praise and love, illusions, avarice and parsimony, greed, irresponsibility, haste to fatigue, and negligence. One may be encumbered by mystical states (hal), stuck in the rapture, being a mere inebriation mystic:

“A Complete Sufi may be called a Master of Time, meaning master of starting and stopping, of modifying cognition”

Outward detachment and interior solitude are goals of dervish practice. Suhrawardi was eventually executed for political reasons but managed to mold a vast tradition. Other Schools are the Chishti (musicians), the Naqshbandi (silent), the Kubravi, the Rifa’I (howling), and the Mevlevi (dancing). The styles refer to methods of development. Sufi organizations are said to be deliberately temporary and meetings without great regulation. Each school had markers like types of patchworked garb. Some meeting places had checkerboard floors – perhaps a precursor to the OTO Gnostic Mass temple format. Although Sufism is not associated with asceticism there seem to be many exercises of a mystical sort – similar to yoga and visualization yoga. Each school specialized in various techniques and one could be sent from one school to another according to one’s abilities.

Shah includes a chapter of a more modern inquiry of a Western seeker to a Sufi master that is quite interesting. The master points out the preconceived notions always apparent in intellectual approaches to knowledge and suggesst openness and detachment as a better starting point. This seems akin to the Zen ‘Beginner’s Mind.’

He devotes a chapter to the ‘creed of love’ brought to Europe by the troubadours, the wandering musicians. The Sufi poet Hafiz is a famed example of a love poet. To be a poet is to be a lover – it has been said. The troubadour influence was from Arabia to Saracen Spain to southern France and into Europe. It is thought that the Church adapted by further idealization of and devotion to the Virgin Mary. It should be noted that Sufi schools were very early in Spain – from the 8th century – since Arabs ruled there since that time – so this influence on Europe was long and probably came in phases. There were Jews as well in Spain and interactions among the intellectuals of all were likely.

There is a section on – Miracles and Magic. Miracles are seen in the context of how they affect the development of the student. One of their functions is to inspire in story. Magic is subordinant to the Great Work of spiritual development:

“Magic is worked through the heightening of emotion… Magic is a training system as much as it is anything else…. Magic not only assumes that it is possible to cause certain effects by means of certain techniques; it also schools the individual in those techniques.”

Shah mentions his view of the development of Cabala and Markabah Jewish mysticism as strongly influenced by Sufi ideas. The Jewish Yudghanites of the 8th? century were aligned with Sufism. Hebrew grammar was first written in Arabic under Arab philological rules. So there is very strong evidence that Hebrew grammar and Cabalistic attributes are founded on earlier Arabic models. Shah says that the 10 sephira were originally 8 in the Arabic system. This period beginning in the 900’s? AD is called the Judeo-Arabian period. The Arabized Jews of Spain were plentiful.

Other topics include more famous teachers, hidden Sufis, esoteric interpretation of the Koran, and Malak Taus and the Yezideh cult of the Peacock Angel. Shah gives specific Sufi symbolism to the Peacock Angel cult rather than the pre-Islamic Babylonian paganism sometimes attributed to it. He thinks that the Catholic rosary was adopted from the Saracens.

Tariqa is the Arabic word for path, way, or dervish order. It has many other meanings but it mostly refers to the Sufi habit or ‘rule of living.’

Shah mentions the Tarot as having an Arabic or Sufi origin – and subsequently playing cards as well. He says some current attributes are incorrect to the original system. Certainly the Sufis carried the Tarot lore and if this lore did not originate earlier in Egypt as is legend, they certainly preserved it and re-introduced it to the Western Esoteric tradition. He suggests the word Tarot coming from the Arabic turuk, meaning ‘four ways’ although the original Latin (and Hebrew) wordplay (Taro, Rota, Orat, Tora) differ somewhat – but Tarot is said to mean “royal path” or ‘royal way’ so not so different from the turuq meaning nor the Tariqa as well.

An Egyptian Sufi from the 800’s is thought to been in the succession of the Sufi Solomon and the Solomon Temple of the Masons may not have referred to the Hebrew Solomon and Temple but to this more recent Sufi Solomon and the 8th century octagonal Sufi – Dome of the Rock temple. This Egyptian Sufi mentioned founded the Malamati Sufi Order which like ‘the Builders’ has apparently been pointed out as quite similar to the Freemasonry.

Overall this is a fantastic book. Shah sometimes seems too Sufi-centric, giving the Sufis credit for the origins of nearly everything it seems. The level that he suggests that they influenced the Hindus and even the Zen Buddhists does not seem likely though certainly these currents cross-pollinated one another here and there. I would say that Sufi influence on European culture was considerable and has not been properly acknowledged and is not at all widely known. Shah wrote several books but I am guessing this is his Magnum Opus – for he was certainly a formidable Sufi as well.


=====================

#64450 From: Sreenadh OG <sreesog@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:15 am
Subject: Adam's Tongue: How Humans Made Language, How Language Made Humansg
sreesog
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Dear All,
  The following is a book review from Chakra ji's blog at: http://chakra37.blogspot.in/2012/03/adams-tongue-how-humans-made-language.html
Love and regards,
Sreenadh
=====================

Adam's Tongue: How Humans Made Language, How Language Made Humans

Book Review: Adam’s Tongue: How Humans Made Language, How Language Made Humans by Derek Bickerton   (Hill and Wang 2009)

 This is a mind-blowing account of how we may well have discovered and developed both language and conceptual thought. By no means is this sometimes complex scenario certain but the logic is compelling and the story coherent even though some assumptions have to be made. Cutting edge ideas in evolution are all through this book. The author dukes it out with all the current ideas about language origins and points out many shortcomings. The book is fascinating and holds one’s interest well. The only problem I have with it is that he did not summarize enough after his initial arguments to package it up finer and into a more coherent whole. Bickerton is a linguistics professor but he is quite well-studied in evolutionary biology as well.


Bickerton notes that the question of language origins is very important in science for without language there would be no science. Language is perhaps what makes us human – or beyond mere animals. For all the great sensory and biological abilities of various animals it seems that language is of a magnitude greater. He notes that the evolution of language is a difficult problem to unravel. Did brain size and intelligence make language or vice versa. Or was some of the process co-evolutionary. These are some of the questions pondered. He compares the development of language in humans to the development of flight in insects. He thinks that language is the key to being human. Bickerton sees things more as a loop between genes and environment rather than as all genes a la Richard Dawkins. He also warns against regarding language as a target for natural selection. Many things have been proposed that caused language to be selected: “hunting, toolmaking, child care, social competitiveness, sexual display.” He debunks all these as triggers for language to have been selected but does note that they all have a role in the further development of language after a rudimentary functional language was in place.


He begins with a discussion of Animal Communication Systems (ACS). He points out that these are not at all similar to language and certainly not a close precursor to language – or rather, that there is no hierarchy from ACS to language. He goes through Marc Houser’s criteria for ACS – three broad categories that can overlap: 1) signals that relate to survival, 2) signals that relate to mating and reproduction, 3) social signals. These are how animals communicate in order to increase survival and reproductive success. So survival, mating, and social signals make up the full amount of ACS. The author points out that ACS are concerned with the present, that they are grounded in the here and now, and before language there is no real notion of past and future. Later he notes that animals have an ‘episodic memory’ which is a vague connection to the past, but do not really have memory or a real conception of past and future. Words and language, on the other hand, express qualities that go beyond the present. ACS are concerned strictly with survival fitness. Humans alone, he says, developed a need for language.


Bickerton analyzes and debunks language origin theories having to do with tools, hunting, sex, and grooming and gossip. He notes four tests that any theory of language must pass: 1) Uniqueness – why humans uniquely acquired language and no other species did; 2) Ecology – environment of humans that developed language needs to be taken into account; Credibility – the theory must be credible – he doses not really explain this condition well; 4) Selfishness – there should have been some selfish benefit.


Bickerton systematically rejects the idea that humans developed language as a function of increasing brain size. His conclusion is more that language allowed us to develop bigger brains rather than bigger brains being an impetus fro the development of language.


He goes through the development of language in terms of linguistics theory – from phonology – meaningless sounds, to morphology – sounds with meaning, to syntax – meaningful utterances that we understand as language.


One area of Bickerton’s expertise is with pidgin language development and here he sees a parallel to the development of early language where whatever worked to affect the transfer of ideas was used – words, sounds, gestures, body language, emphasis, etc. He does note his detractors who don’t think pidgin is a good model for language development. He sees pidgin as something intermediate between ACS and language as we know it, a protolanguage. The factor that language shares with protolanguage beyond ACS, he says, is ‘combinability.’


“Languages combine lawfully and protolanguages combine lawlessly. In other words, languages have all kind of constraints on what you may put together with what; protolanguages don’t.”


So language has syntax but protolanguage need not have it. ACS, he says, have no combinability and cannot have it. No precursor to syntax has ever been found in an ACS.

Predication, he says, is the precursor to syntax, and this requires combinablity (of sounds) in some meaningful way. Much of the search for the link between ACS and language has been involved with alarm calls among primates. They have different ones for different threats such as eagle, snake, or leopard, though these only refer indexically to the animals themselves or to threats from above, near, or below. He notes that some have tried to suggest combinability – of such things as calls for food and danger – but when analyzed they are two separate calls and not blended or combined into one.


ACS signs are indexical rather than symbolic – indexical signs point directly at what they refer to. Symbolic signs are not confined to the here and now and so are in the domain of language. He notes that both ACS and language are both informative and manipulative. ACS is primarily manipulative and only secondarily informative, while language is primarily informative and only secondarily manipulative. Information is only a byproduct of ACS. Manipulative signals are confined to the here and now while informative signals are not. He contends that symbolism rather than syntax is the uniquely human ability that allowed language to develop. In terms of development beyond ACS it was ‘displacement’ (in space and time beyond the here and now) that had to develop. Of the three types of ACS signals, it is only survival (and not mating or social signals) he explains that could have made the leap to displacement. ACS survival signals can be divided into alarm calls and food calls. Distance of newly discovered food and time to reveal news of such food is a candidate situation for displacement to have developed. There is a third class of signal different from the indexical and symbolic. This is the iconic, which is something that resembles what it refers to such as mimicking the noise a certain animal makes. This is the route (from icon to symbol) he thinks the development of symbolic language took. He gives the selective pressure as “the need to transmit information about food sources outside the sensory range of message recipients” and the means of doing this through iconic signs.


He talks a lot of the “primate-centric bias” where genetics is seen as the most influential factor on language development and perpetuated by the determinism of Richard Dawkins and many others and the focus on other primates in the search for the development of language. So ape ACS has been a main focus in this search. He goes through some theories where language is presumed to be derived from primate ACS – the primate gestures idea of Pollick and de Waal and the theory of the singing apes (as a pair-bonding mechanism) of Mithen. He re-iterates that ACS and language are different things – that ACS did not necessarily directly evolve into language.


He goes through and debunks the ‘talking apes’ experiments to teach language to apes and shows that it is not symbolic language that they are learning but an a learned extension of their ACS. He sees these experiments as teaching the apes a rudimentary form of protolanguage – with some combinability. He suggests that their neurology was altered in the sense that, “Neurons that fire together, wire together.”


Homology is discussed – ie. genetic possibilities related to earlier animal forms that lie dormant in genes. Intra-species communication among other species, particularly social insects such as ants and bees indicates a latent genetic capability for deeper than ACS communication.


Next he goes through the very interesting theory of niche construction. In explaining this he gives the example of beavers. They designed their environments by making them but their environments have designed them as well – their tails, their teeth, their mouth configuration, their eyelids, their webbed feet, and their thick fur. As the author states it, it is a situation where:  “Chance + Necessity + Time = Perfect Fitness.”


“… it’s the interaction between genes and behavior that starts the evolutionary motor, and feedback between genes and behavior that keeps it going. That’s the insight that gave birth to niche construction theory.”


“… animals themselves modify the environments they live in, and that these modified environments, in turn, select for further genetic variations in the animal. So a feedback process begins, a two-way street in which the animal is developing the niche and the niche is developing the animal, until you get the lock-and-key fit between the animal and niche that makes people say, “But there must  have been a designer!”


In defining a niche Bickerton notes three components of a niche: 1) habitat – macro and/or micro, 2) nourishment, and 3) means of obtaining food or nourishment. Though one may not think of niches as being actively constructed, many are in nature. Farming is niche construction, including ants that farm fungi or aphids. Earthworms construct their niche. Termites construct climate controlled dwellings. The photosynthesis of plants constructs a niche that allows other species, those that breathe oxygen, to thrive. The bottom line is that it is not just the species that makes the niche but the niche that makes the species. Humans, he says, have the greatest capacity to adapt the environment to their own needs. So what he says is that the development of language among humans is a form of niche construction. Humans, it seems, constructed new niches at unprecedented scale and speed. He thinks that the search for a gene for language is ultimately futile as niche construction explains language development rather than genetics. He says that alarm calls did not morph into words but probably helped ready us for words.


His explanation begins with the niche carved out by australopithecines about 2.5 mya. Aside from possible endurance hunting and living in constant danger from predators due to their small size he thinks that these proto-humans ate by foraging and by scavenging. The scavenging hierarchy would have been led by larger fiercer predators with vultures at the lowest followed by the lowliest – the humanoids. He and others think they were last but they figured out how to crack bones and devour the nutrient-dense marrow. Bones of large herbivores would have been plentiful, long-lasting, and without competition. This nutrient-dense marrow may have resulted in increased brain growth. Even so there is only a small amount of marrow in bones. Dead megafauna would have been relatively abundant. These are large animals that could not be taken down by predators – things like mammoths and hippos. They have very thick skins that predators cannot rend until they decompose for a few days. The theory is that the humans – normally at the low end of the scavenging totem pole, found that they could go in before the predators and cut open the thick skin with sharp volcanic rocks or flint. There is evidence for this in the fossil record. Up until 2 mya the cut marks on fossil bones came after predator marks – suggesting humans utilizing the bones for marrow. After this time the cut marks seem to occur before the predator marks indicating that humans got there first. This indicates a new form of scavenging and the author places it in terms of ‘optimal foraging theory’ which states that, “… any species will choose, out of available foods, just those that yield the highest calorific intake relative to the energy that’s expended in obtaining them.” This change in foraging strategy would have required these early humans to range over larger distances than before – which is indicated in the fossil record. According to the theory the humans would have to find the recently dead megafauna, quickly gather sufficient numbers of humans with sharp stones to hurl at carnivores who would be hovering near and try to move in especially as they smelled the meat better as the skin was pierced.


Next he digresses to discuss evolutionary and development biology – known as “evo-devo” which suggests that homology is more widespread than thought. Homology means going back, sometimes way back, to common ancestors to see how features developed in some but not in others – though the genes they developed from are still there, latent. If a similar niche comes about in a totally different species much later on,  that species may draw on the same genetic material in a similar way. Here he is referring to the selective pressure of the need to transmit information about food sources beyond the sensory range of recipients of that information. Both ants and bees are able to do this. Bees do it through dance and reference to the sun’s position. Ants do it through shaking displays and chemicals. This transmission behavior can be seen as a form of recruiting. Some ants, like early humans, practice a fission-fusion feeding strategy, that is, they spread out and regroup and information is transmitted (chemically) about big sources of food. Ravens scavenge with a single carcass claimed by bonding pairs though a single raven may recruit others to drive off a pair. These are all homologies of recruiting behavior regarding food sources.


He suggests that a group ancestral to homo erectus broke of from homo habilis by going from catchment scavenging (bone marrow) to territorial scavenging (dead megafauna). This would require evolutionary changes over time – bigger size, ability to withstand thirst, better throwing ability, and bigger size. He goes through a scenario where these pre-lingual humans scattered in foraging bands – where one locates a dead megafauna and gathers others to hurry and butcher it while fending off predators with their numbers and hurling sharp stones. When a dead animal was located there arose the problem of recruitment, how to gather the other bands together quickly in order to get at the food. So iconic language – like the sounds of the dead animal were likely first uttered with a desire to utter notions like “come now!”  “this way!” One possible source of evidence is the large number of so-called hand axes found together – he suggests these were not hand axes but the stones hurled at predators. He suggests it was the women who did the butchering – being protected furthest from the predators, the stone-throwing men being more expendable. So this recruitment is a form of cooperation that yields benefit that can only be derived by gathering sufficient numbers. This situation, he notes, would require non-kin cooperation, which would have been a new thing.


He donates a section to the alternative ideas of language development put forward by Noam Chomsky. He disagrees with Chomsky on the ultimate origins of language but agrees with him on many other linguistics issues and is not at all part of what he says is an existing anti-Chomsky faction. Chomsky, an expert in linguistics, had not mentioned language origins until he co-authored a paper in 2002. Here a compromise was made where the ‘faculty of language’ was divided into a broad faculty (BFL) and a narrow faculty (NFL). Hauser, one of the co-authors, believes language to have developed due to natural selection. The notion of recursion – “the capacity to embed one linguistic structure within another of the same kind – one phrase, clause, or sentence inside another” was part of FLN – that which is unique to humans and specifically dedicated to language. FLB could have developed from other biological needs. I don’t quite understand all these features but the bottom line is that Chomsky etal were saying that animals first had concepts that would not merge with other concepts. When concept merging appeared the brain was re-wired. Merging then was further developed and complex thought, planning, and language developed. The author disagrees with this sequence. He thinks that though the early humans may have had some categorizing abilities, proto-concepts of a sort, that actual language appeared before conceptualization (which is often defined as language-based thought). Of course, after a few words were learned by necessity, concepts could be further developed and lead to more words in a feedback system. This likely did not happen quickly – at first, although once it began to really happen it may taken off. Categories, he suggests, can trigger episodic memories in animals neurologically as a threat or potential food source is located but if the threat or food is not potentially present in the mind, in the here and now, then the neurons won’t fire. Concepts require defining something when it is not present. If there is no threat or no potential satisfaction then there is no biological need for the idea. The neurons are related to the threat or the satisfaction rather than to the thing that provides it. When they become related to the thing then the process would be conceptual. He gives an analogy of RAM (random access memory) and CAM (content addressable memory) with computers. CAM is more complex and more energy expensive – more like real concepts versus survival categorization. So he is saying that words allowed concepts as we know them to form neurologically. He compares online thinking and offline thinking. Online thinking refers again to the here and now and offline thinking refers to ideation of things not present. After words were developed then thought and language could co-evolve. After rudimentary language developed then all the things thought to have started language like – “instructing the young, competing socially, displaying sexually, making artifacts, gossiping, performing rituals …” would be free to be enhanced and further developed. The vast time required for the extensive re-wiring of the brain would have taken hundreds of thousands of years and during that time the human brain did gradually double in size though no major changes in human tools came about (from 2mya) for about a million years.


The recruitment signals that went beyond ACS had functional reference, had displacement, were learned, and contained protonouns (names for species), and possibly protoverbs (“come” “hurry”). In order for language to develop these signs would have had to uncouple from situations, from the here and now, and from survival fitness. Words for past and future would have had to develop and cooperation beyond that required for fitness would have had to develop before these uncouplings could take place. That is why he suggests that language did not develop right away from these recruitment signals even though they were the first break from ACS toward language. He thinks displacement was the single most influential factor in developing symbolical thinking. He suggests that a recruitment signal for say “mammoth” may have been imitated by the young and gradually the signal sound gets divorced from the immediacy of the situations where it arises and eventually a representation forms in the brain. Perhaps there were ritual re-enactments of the scavenging missions at some point and this would reify the symbols in the brains. Once symbolic thinking developed the territorial scavenging foraging strategy could be improved by noting and communicating signs suggesting possible dying megafauna. Next he thinks came the development of syntax – maybe a hundred thousand years ago as he suggests – the development of barbed weapons suggested that syntax was appearing conceptually. The barbed weapon requires a sequence of events to be learned with regard to the weapon interfacing with the animal. In light of this he thinks protolanguage was like a pidgin language with emerging syntax. Then it became possible to link concepts into coherent trains of thought. He thinks that the earliest protolanguage contained very few words with no sound overlap and that vocabulary building came much later and that the development of vocabulary selected for greater phonological complexity. Gradually, as is now well known, we developed language faculties with which we are born. He says predication preceded true syntax perhaps in the manner of sequencing words as in pidgin. Words were probably originally linked as “beads on a string” and later developed hierarchical orders which became universal as true language developed. He calls language development an auto-catalytic process – one that drives itself – due to a need for greater effectiveness and to convey more in a short time period. Hierarchical structured speech is faster than pidgin. This structure is what Chomsky calls Merge. Brevity and clarity are other factors that get enhanced with structured syntax. Needs to distinguish things of different types and to qualify things are the types of things that led to greater complexity.


In the last section he analyzes and criticizes the idea of recursion – phrases within phrases. Chomsky uses it to argue that language is cultural rather than biological but the author thinks that the origin of language is ultimately biological. This seems a bit strange or rather obvious to me as it seems that culture itself is ultimately biological so the biological origin seems much more likely to me. 


Anyway – this is an awesome book that really opens up some thought about what it really means to be human.
=====================

#64451 From: Sreenadh OG <sreesog@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:18 am
Subject: Orpheus and the Pursuit of Immortality Through Divinity
sreesog
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Dear All,
   One more book review from the blog of chakra ji: http://chakra37.blogspot.in/2012/02/orpheus-and-pursuit-of-immortality.html
Love and regards,
Sreenadh
=========================

Orpheus and the Pursuit of Immortality Through Divinity

Book Review: Orpheus And The Pursuit of Immortality Through Divinity by Harold R. Willoughby (Kindle Edition date unknown circa 1930’s to 1960’s)

This is a short text that analyses the salvific doctrines of Orphism. The author notes that Orphism is a reform of the Rites of Dionysus. Orphism was probably established by 600 BC and is thought to be quite closely related to the doctrines of Pythagoreans. Orpheus, whether a man or mythical figure, was considered to be different than the mad and wine-drunk Dionysus. Orpheus was depicted as a sober musician who tamed wild men and beasts with his music. Despite these differences Orphics also sought immortality through the god Dionysus. Rather than uniting with the god through orgiastic drunkenness the approach apparently was wholly different, quite opposite. In Orphism, immortality was courted through one’s ascetic behavior and restraint.

The main sources of knowledge about the Orphic Mysteries are the classical writers Pindar, Plato, Aristophanes, Euripedes, and later Strabo and Plutarch – and Orphic tablets found in tombs in south Italy and Crete. These are thought to be instructions to the deceased for the next world. I am not sure if these tablets are similar or related to the so-called – Mystical Hymns of Orpheus – of the Neoplatonists. Southern Italy is thought to have been an area of Orphic brotherhoods and a place where famed philosophers such as Parmenides and Pythagoras lived. Clement of Alexandria’s ‘Exhortation to the Greeks’ also mentions some Orphic lore that is now lost.

Clement of Alexandria’s text mentions Dionysus Zagreus (the hunter), son of Zeus and Persephone. Destined to become the king of the gods after his father he was killed by jealous Titans who tore him to pieces and cooked and ate them. The heart was gathered by Athena, brought to Zeus whereby he swallowed it, and after mating with Semele, Dionysus was born – so Dionysus was Zagreus reborn. This was probably related to a similar eatrlier Cretan rite of eating raw flesh. In any case, the Orphic cult is based on the character of Dionysus Zagreus. After the Titans consumed him Zeus blasted them with thunderbolts and from the ash from that blasting, man was created. So man arose from two differing natures, one divine (Dionysus Zagreus) and the other base (Titans). This is the myth behind the Orphic notion that man is essentially a soul imprisoned in a body. The tablets note that:

“I am a child of the Earth and of Starry Heaven;
But my race is of Heaven.”

This notion of body/soul dualism is a key Orphic idea. Orphic discipline attempts to purify the stain that is the body through asceticism and specific purifying morality.

Also the Orphics believed in reincarnation, or a series of long and arduous reincarnations that would eventually purify the soul. The disciplines are meant to bypass this suffering. So this goal of removing oneself from the wheel of transmigration is not too dissimilar to Hindu/Buddhist/Jain notions of karma and rebirth. The concept of some sort of moral Justice was perhaps equated with divinity. According to Pindar, Plato, and Empedocles the soul had to endure three migration cycles of a thousand or ten thousand years each before being purified the slow way. Proclus suggested that the initiator was Orpheus, the mysteries were those of Dionysus and Kore, and the goal was release of the soul from transmigration. Persephone or Kore is referred to in the tablets as: “the Pure Queen of Them Below.” She is addressed in the initiations and lore with various affirmations. Upon passing purified to the land of death Below one addresses her joyfully with the following affirmation:

“I have flown out of the sorrowful weary Wheel;
I have passed with eager feet to the Circle desired.”

Orpheus is thought by some to have been a priest of Dionysus that reformed the Bacchic rites. Central to the initiation in both rites was the consuming of raw flesh, that of a sacrificed bull. This was eucharistic and thought to nourish the spark of divinity as Dionysus Zagreus that was in man from the ashes of the Titans. It needed nourishment for it was said to be weak. It was also in a sense a re-enactment of the tragedy that befell Dionysus Zagreus. They would daub themselves with white clay or gypsum during the initiation rites as the Titans had done to disguise themselves in the myth. The clay, gypsum, mud, or pitch was thought to have also been a spiritual cleansing.

After the initial feast of flesh the austerities began. There was now an abstention from all flesh and all animal foods. These were now considered unclean. Herodotus mentions the similarities of Orphism, Egyptian practices, and Pythagoreanism. He notes that they took baths and aspersions, avoided funerals and marriages, avoided all food that was dead or killed, and avoided beans as well. A corpse was seen as void of the Dionysian element, being only the tainted Titan element. The Orphics were said to favor clothes of pure white. It was assumed, even by old classical writers such as Pindar, that the ceremonial purity sought by Orphics had a positive effect on morality and that even knowing the lore of the Orphics could promote morality. Orphism banned slaughter, murder, and suicide and so in that sense also promoted peace. Willoughby notes that:

“There were certain postmortem rules of conduct to be observed as well. The Orphic tablets bring this out most clearly. They chart the geography of the next world for the initiate, acquaint him with the divine beings who have the determination of future weal or woe, prescribe certain ritual acts to be observed, and instruct him in formularies and confessions to be repeated under certain circumstances.”

One tablet mentions two wellsprings to the left and right of Hades. The one to the left, presumably the Well of Forgetfulness, was to be avoided. One is instructed to drink from the well on the right, the Well of Memory. One was to utter to the guardians of the Well of Memory, “I am a child of Earth and Starry Heaven.”

Other Orphic practices included ‘purgations,’ fasting, and regular recitations of prayers and confessions. So life became for them a process of return to a divine nature through austerity and generally favoring morality and self-control over bodily pleasures. Willoughby refers to this process as ‘regeneration’ and presumably examines this idea in his book “Pagan Regeneration. According to 18th century Neo-platonist Thomas Taylor the works of Orpheus preceded those of Pythagoras and Plato and all are the same doctrines – although Plato was known to ridicule to Orphic notions. He refers to these doctrines as theologies and indeed the Hymns of Orpheus are hymns to many of the classical deities and anthropomorphized natural forces and qualities identified by the Greeks.

The author notes that Orphism was definitely influential in classical Greek times but perhaps was less so in Hellenistic times, although there are several indications that it was still around to some extent. The author notes a recently discovered Orpheum (presumably a meeting place of Orphics) in the ruins of Pompeii after the eruption of Vesuvius in 79 CE. Willoughby also suggests that it merged with other doctrines, religions, philosophies, and movements. So the Orphic notions probably became institutionalized into Greek culture to some extent in Hellenistic times. The Orphic Mysteries were said to remain popular at Eleusis and may have in some ways become incorporated into the Eleusinian Mysteries as translators of the Mystical Hymns of Orpheus seem to suggest. Indeed Orpheus is sometimes said to be the originator of the Mysteries. There seems to be some similarities as well between redemptive Orphic dualism and redemptive Gnostic dualism although the symbolism of light and dark seem to be pre-eminent in Gnosticism.

Accounts from Plutarch indicate that women and children could also attend certain Orphic rites. Since the soul of a moral man was thought to enter divinity upon death it has been said that these dead were deified. Tomb inscriptions seem to indicate that these ancestors were particularly venerated by the Orphics. One inscription even summarizes the Orphic doctrine:

“The body is the garment of the soul. Honor the God in me.”

Some syncretistic religions from Hellenistic Asia Minor and particularly Egypt possibly combined ideas from Orphism, Hermeticism, the Osiris cult, and local traditions. The Orphic regeneration ideas probably influenced early Christianity as well.

Not much is said in this little book about the mythology of Orpheus. He was said to be a son of the muse Calliope and a Thracian king. He is an archetypal musician, singer, and poet so should rank as a key character of bardic tradition and tribal memory. One of his stories is that of leading the maiden Eurydice from the Underworld though she dies before they return. There appear to be many varying versions of this story. Orpheus is sometimes given as the first being to reveal the mysteries of the gods to men. He is killed in various ways in the varying myths. One is that he was torn to pieces by Dionysian menaeads for failing to properly venerate his god on one occasion. His lyre was placed in the heavens as the well-known constellation Lyra. He is also associated with the swan and there was a story of him choosing to incarnate as a swan. For this he has also been associated with the constellation Cygnus and interestingly the first association of a cross with a religious figure is said to be an icon of Orpheus with a cross possibly representing the cross-shaped Cygnus constellation. There is also a story of the head of Orpheus being able to sing and speak oracles. This talking head has been compared to the much later head of Baphomet of the Templars and is similar as well to the talking head of the Celtic Bran.

Orphism can possibly be seen as one of the earliest forms of urban ‘organized’ religion that we know about through extensive writings. Plato describes the Orphics as vegetarian beggar priests who wander around doing prayers for people.


=========================

#64452 From: Sreenadh OG <sreesog@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:21 am
Subject: The Tantric Tradition
sreesog
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Dear All,
  Another book review from the blog of Chakra ji: http://chakra37.blogspot.in/2012/02/tantric-tradition.html
Love and regards,
Sreenadh
========================

The Tantric Tradition

Book Review: The Tantric Tradition  by Agehananda Bharati  (Anchor/Doubleday 1965, 1970)

This is both a good serious academic survey and a spiritual insider's account of the Tantric tradition. It is a fairly thorough account with very good comparisons of the Hindu and Buddhist Tantric systems, though the author probably knows Hindu Tantra better since he is a member of a Hindu order of monks. This book was written before more became known about Tantric Buddhism as more Tibetan lamas came to exile in the West. Nonetheless there is great information here about both Hindu and Buddhist Tantra. The author analyses the best scholarship of the time and offers some of his own ideas as well.

 Bharati notes that philosophically, tantra in both Buddhism and Hinduism is no different than non-tantric Buddhism and Hinduism. Certainly tantric or Vajrayana Buddhism builds on Mahayana Buddhism and is indeed considered by those who practice it to be a subset of Mahayana. Non-tantric Saivites also share similar philosophical positions with tantric Saivites. The difference lies in the Sadhana, or contemplative practices. So the difference between tantric and non-tantric approaches is methodological. As some of my teachers have noted – tantra is a technology, a style of practice that bypasses and may lead to quick results.

 In comparing elements of Indian philosophy he notes that all are concerned with emancipation from a state of delusion and all postulate an underlying ‘absolute’ to the phenomenal universe. Here he notes the Vedantic brahman and the Mahayana sunya, or emptiness as being similar concepts. They are both concepts used to describe (often in exclusive terms) an absoluteness beyond concepts. Bharati makes an interesting suggestion that tantrism involves experiencing the inseparability of the absolute and phenomenal worlds through sadhana. In the Madyamika philosophy of the Mahayana this is the inseparability of samsara and nirvana. He thinks that there are differences between the Hindu and Buddhist approaches but many disagree. Indeed it was said in 10th century India by the Bengali adept Atisha that the differences were so subtle as to be only detectible on higher philosophical levels. Bharati notes that:


“Hindu scholars, with no exception to my knowledge, believe in a virtual doctrinary identity of Advaita monism and Madyamika absolutism ….”


The “Advaita monism’ he mentions probably refers to the reformed “Advaita Vedanta” or non-dualism of the quasi-tantric Shankaracarya.


Methods and deities among Hindu and Buddhist tantrics overlap quite a bit and some famous practitioners are counted among both traditions. This is true of the founders of the Nath yogi ttradition such as Matsyendranath and Goraknath In some places and times such as medieval Kashmir it is hard to tell which deities were Hindu and which Buddhist as things were so thoroughly mixed. Hinduism and Buddhism usually differ on the Hindu emphasis on atma and the Buddhist emphasis on anatma. So self and non-self are basically exact opposites. Another complete reversal is the depiction of polarity. In Hindu tantra the Shakti is the active element while in Buddhist tantra the consort, or dakini is considered the passive element associated with emptiness/wisdom. Dare I say that I think there is a secretive element in these polar reversals and that perhaps all polarities are reversible. This accords with the notion of samanvaya, the reconciling of seeming contradictions on a higher philosophical level where they have no validity. Polarity and dualism are features of the phenomenal world and have no meaning in the ultimate beyond so their polarity is not ‘fixed’ even in the phenomenal world. I have been working with this idea for a while. Another Hindu-Buddhist difference is the doctrine of the three bodies of Buddha (trikaya) expounded first in the Mahayana. This does not occur in Hinduism but there are possible parallels such as in the Trika school of Kasmiri Saivism and the Vaisnava depiction of the threefold aspect of deity as ‘attraction’, ‘unrestrainability’, and ‘the purely mythological.’


Bharati includes a whole chapter on terminology and notes that terms may mean different things in the Hindu versions, the Indian Buddhist versions, and the Tibetan versions, especially regarding the so-called ‘twilight language’ – which is cryptic, esoteric, and symbolic. Terms may also have different meanings in different philosophical systems and even different meaning among the uneducated populace. Several of his explanations of the details of Buddhist terms come from the great scholar Herbert Guenther. Guenther did his utmost to try to convey the rich character of words and phrases in Tibetan and Sanskrit although with the many Tibetan speakers and translators and the many lamas who are fluent in English we get better results nowadays.


In a chapter comparing tantric literature of India and Tibet, the origins of the goddess Tara are discussed. Hindus consider her a wife of Siva and one of the ten mahavidyas (wisdom goddesses). Several scholars think she was a Buddhist goddess that the Hindus later adopted. ‘Mahacina’ Tara indicates that she was venerated beyond the Himalayas – in Tibet, Mongolia, and/or western China. Bharati thinks the Hindu Tara was a totally separate goddess – Tara meaning ‘savioress’ being a common epithet of Indian goddesses. The region of tantric influence spread from these areas north of the Himalayas westward towards Iran and southward into Cambodia and Indonesia. This has been determined by iconography and history. Unfortunately the geography given in Indian medieval history is often quite questionable. The author includes a long account from the Hindu Rudrayamala, an account which was mentioned in the Taratantra utilized by both Hindus and Buddhists. This account was written late in the 11th century – after organized Buddhism had diminished in India. Here the Brahmin sage Vasistha is advised to seek out the goddess in the lands to the north in Mahacina where the Buddhists dwell. Here he finds the Buddha who explains to him the tantric methods to worship the goddess. Other earlier accounts of this episode appear in other tantras. In some the Buddha takes wine along with the others and rather orgiastic behavior is recounted. Tara is sometimes associated with the Blue Sarasvati, Nilasarasvati. There is discussion of a tantra of Mahacina that talks about the Mahacina-method in both the Mahacintantra and the Saktisangama where Siva instructs to practice this style of the Vajrayana Buddhists in a certain way. These texts have the most info about Tibetan and Vajrayana deities pertaining to Hindus.  The largest main compilation of Buddhist tantras in India is the Sadhanamala which describes many deities and sometimes their origins. A few deities such as the Goddess Ekajati (old one tooth) are thought to have come from Tibet or Nepal to India but the other 99% are thought to be Indian in origin. Ekajati is sometimes called blue Tara in Tibet. Siva as lord of Mt. Kailash is sometimes given as equivalent to Buddha but according to Bharati this is done by the Hindus only and the Buddhists do not concede to this. But many Hindu deities occur in Buddhist tantric versions and stories.


Pilgrimage is a topic that is decidedly associated with tantra. There was pilgrimage and circumambulation before tantra but it became more widespread as a tantric practice. After Siva destroyed Daksa’s sacrifice after his wife Sati immolated herself he wandered about mad with her burnt body. After the pieces of her body fell in various places in India these spots became power places where pilgrims traveled. The Buddhists had other power places. Mt Kailash is one of the pilgrimage places shared by Buddhists, Hindus, Jains, and Bonpos. The places of the goddess and the Buddhist pilgrimage sites are called pithas. The notion of the four pithas occurs in Buddhist and Hindu tantric works. The Hevajra Tantra circa 690 AD mentions these as 1) Jalandhara (East Punjab), 2) Oddiyana (Swat Valley of Pakistan), 3) Purnagiri (unknown current location), and 4) Kamarupa (Assam). Kamarupa is still a pilgrimage site today. The Buddhist Catuspithantantra describes the four pithas mystically as the shrine of the self, the shrine of the supreme, the shrine of yoga, and the secret esoteric shrine. The same places mentioned in the Hevajra Tantra are mentioned in the Kalika Purana. These are associated with Hindu and Vaisnava deities and also the four directions. It is quite likely as well that the four pithas represented parts of the body and in some tantras there is mention of activating them within and without through nyasa, or charging them through touching. Typically one touches the various body centers. Indeed the Indian Buddhist tantrikas often utilized a four chakra system that may correspond. The Caryapadas (Indian Buddhist Mahasiddhas from Bengal) used the twilight or intentional language intermixing geography and vajra body of wind, drops, channels, and wheels. The Yamuna and Ganges rivers referred to the right and left (solar and lunar) channels of the yogic body. Pradaksina, or clockwise circumambulation, is a very common practice that may be Vedic in origin but is practiced all over India and perhaps even more vigorously by indigenous tribal peoples. There are also more ascetic things done such as fasting while prostrating the whole pilgrimage trail from feet to hands. One such circuit done by Jains is said to take 30 hours. The three day circumambulation of Mt. Kailasa is undertaken by many pilgrims, some who also circumambulate the nearby lakes as well. Pilgrimage is a way of connecting to a sacred place and sharing energy with it in order to bring that sacredness into one’s life. Since tantra is seen in the Vajrayana as the working and transformation of energy this fits right in with the methodology.


Mantra is probably the most important tantric topic. In Tibet Tantrayana is also called ‘secret mantra’ and these words of power are often at the center of tantric practice. Mantra, though often cryptic, is not the same as the cryptic twilight language or intentional language employed by tantrikas. Dharani refers to long mnemonic formulas containing mantras or strings of mantras. In some sense any sacred utterances or recitations could be considered mantra. The Vedic hymns are called mantras. Mantra usually refers to syllables or words of power that one recites and uses as a focus for meditation. Often a mantra is formally introduced to the student through the teacher or guru in a formal ceremony called diksha or abhisheka (empowerment). There are bija mantras, so-called seed mantras usually of one syllable, deity mantras, mantras of emptiness, and heart mantras. I have also heard of and received once a mantra called an approach mantra which is a special mantra to approach the deity.


Most scholars consider that Buddhist tantra preceded Hindu tantra although when we hear or read about tantra it is often mostly Hindu tantra. The Vedic seed mantras seem to have been adopted by Buddhists at the beginning of tantrism. The author categorizes mantras into three purposes: propitiation (of a deity or power), acquisition (of something difficult to obtain or powers), and identification (introjection) – of the individual with the cosmic soul. There are also mantras for the purification of the elements (bhutasuddhi). Mantra-japa is the recitation of mantras aloud or silently usually counted with beads on a string. There is what is called pranajapa, or the continuous repetition of the mantra through one’s daily tasks. The Tibetans do practices called drupchens where mantras, usually of a specific deity, are practiced continuously day and night for a few days by groups of practitioners. One of the oldest Buddhist tantras, the Guyhasmaja Tantra is said by some Buddhists to have been composed by the great Mahayanist Asanga – which would make it even a few hundred years older than circa ~ 500-650 CE that is given. Elements of tantra have been noted in the Atharva-Veda, the youngest Veda that is full of ritual and magical formulas so some scholars see it as a precursor to the tantric tradition.


Bharati goes through the association of deities with seed mantras. Some seed mantras indicate the nature of a deity. HUM depicts a warrior mode, PHAT a fierce mode, other bijas depict various goddesses, love/desire, or maya. He notes the Buddhist mantra OM HUM PHAT being used for exorcism and to prepare the mind for ‘emptiness.’ The similar Hindu mantra AM HUNG PHAT is said to be used when chopping off the head of a sacrificial goat to Kali or Durga.


Bharati goes through various rules and conventions of mantra. Often certain mantras accompany certain ritual procedures. Sometimes one works with a personal deity form, or ista-devata (yidam in Tibetan). In Tibetan practices there are various offering mantras and mudras (gestures). OM AH HUNG is a common offering mantra in Tibetan practices, these seed syllables referring to body, speech, and mind and usually appearing on the forehead, throat, and heart respectively (although as I know from the Yungdrung Bon traditiuon the OM and AH are reversed in color and body position). Bharati lists this as an identification mantra. Many of the Hindu mantras have Buddhist parallels especially Saivite ones. Mantras of Visnu, Krsna, and Tamil deities usually do not have Buddhist versions. Hindu Sakti mantras to goddesses such as Sarasvati, the goddess of speech, usually begin with AIM as the seed mantra. Bharati offers many more examples.


The intentional language , or sandhabhasa, of the tantrikas is the next subject. Bharati mentions several explanation for it: 1) to camouflage instructions from the orthodoxy, 2) an esoteric language for initiates, 3) to entice and lure people away from orthodoxy (with sexual symboloism)- this is a rather paranoid view of modern orthodox anti-tantric Hindus, 4) as a mnemonic device (to remember instruction by analogy?), and 5) comedy – couching yogic instructions in absurdly inappropriate terminology. Eroticism, the yoga of the avadhuti, or central channel, and union with the consort, emptiness, are typical topics in the sandha language. The Dohas, or realization songs of the Indian Mahasiddhas and the Bengali text, Carya Gita, are utterly full of symbolic language. So full are they that it helps to have someone to interpret. Some of the basic terms are well known though and Bharati gives a few lists. The sandha term ‘bodhicitta’ which normally refers to the ‘mind of enlightenment’ now refers to the ‘virile semen’ generated from the union of prajna (wisdom) and upaya (skillful means/effort/method).


Initiation is very important in the tantric tradition for the ‘blessing energy’ is transferred ceremonially from guru to student. Initiation is diksha. Often the initiate formally receives a mantra in the ceremony and perhaps a sadhana to practice as well. According to Bharati the Sannyasi and Udasi orders of northern India and the Nath yogis of Nepal  mention three types of diksha: 1) yoga-diksa – initiation into a hatha or laya yoga practice, usually with no mantra given, 2) upayoga-diksa – for a particular secular purpose with a mantra given, 3) jnana-diksa – ‘initiation leading to intuitive knowledge.’

There is also a notion of Sambhavi-diksa – or initiation directly from Siva.


Bharati devotes a long section to ‘Polarity Symbolism’ with the notation that the gender symbolism is reversed in the Hindu (Saivite) and Buddhist versions. He makes some effort to determine why this is so without coming to a definite conclusion. The Shakti of Shiva is considered the active, dynamic, energetic partner. In the Vajrayana the consort or dakini is usually symbolic of wisdom or emptiness, considered the static or passive aspect, although this passivity may not be as important as Bharati and others have emphasized. The wisdom goddess in Buddhism likely comes from the Mother of Wisdom, Prajnaparmita. The name Shakti does not occur in Buddhism but as Bharati notes there are certain dakinis, often of the wrathful sort that are Shakti-like. So Bharati distinguishes two types of Buddhist tantric goddesses here. As I know from Buddhism there are deities related to the four activities of enlightened beings: pacifying, enriching, magnetizing, and subduing. These range from peaceful to wrathful. The wrathful dakinis do not really seem to be passive even when joined with male deities and I think perhaps that the active-passive duality of male-female here is less relevant. When depicted alone they are especially in fierce aspect. Bharati does note that the yab-yum or male-female conjoined forms as the female astride the vajra or lotus-postured male seem to be predominantly Tibetan in their common depictions. In the Hindu Sakti tradition the goddess is sometimes depicted dancing on the corpse of Siva – often said to denote that: “Siva without Sakti is a corpse.”



Vajrayana depictions sometimes show a Vajrayana deity dancing on a corpse of a Hindu deity. I know of an Indian Vajrayana story of a painting of a Buddhist deity dancing on a Hindu deity and the Hindu pandit re-paints it the other way around and it keeps magically reverting back. The Vajrayanists would explain that the Hindu deities represent “worldly gods” and so are able to be and need to be overcome. Buddhist ‘holier-than-thou’ attitude with regards to Hindus may have to do with Buddha’s declaration that the Samadhis, or yogic trances, he learned from the matty-haired ascetics (possibly Saivites) were ultimately impermanent states and so he went beyond these through his technique of clear insight (vipasyana). Of course, the Hindus would scoff at such statements and note Siva as the unsurpassable god, lord of yoga, and enjoyer of the ultimate state. But gender can also be changed among the gods. Siva as the androgynous Ardanarisvara is one example where Siva and Sakti are united in one form. Visnu appearing as the seductress Mohini is another. There are rare Tibetan yab-yum thankas where male and female positions are reversed. Another famed gender change came much later in Buddhist China as the male bodhisattva Avalokiteshvara morphed into the female Kwan Yin. Bharati goes on to offer several detailed possibilities as to how these polarities developed – one being the duality of the powerful Samkhya philosophy of ancient India that separated the world into matter (prakriti) and spirit (purusa). The Buddhist yab-yum is the union of compassion (upaya, skillful means, action, method) and wisdom (prajna, emptiness, insight).  I think one interesting aspect is that in the Buddhist system when one experiences the non-dual state, integrates it, and stabilizes it – there is said to be no difference between samsara and nirvana and so all polarities fade, being remnants of the relative world – yet as part of samsara they still appear, yet under deeper realization they can become flexible and even reversible – as I speculate. The union of the two realities (samsara and nirvana) is the yuganaddha, and results in the apratisthita-nirvana, the nirvana that is not fixed. Bharati discusses the Kalachakra Tantra a bit and suggests that this deity in yab-yum form with prajna as consort suggests a more overall passive deity-form though I am not sure I follow his argument. Kalachakra was a late Buddhist tantra that probably originated west of India in modern Pakistan/Afghanistan and has been associated by some with a movement to unite Buddhists and Hindus against Muslim incursions.



In discussing tantric sadhana Bharati notes the three types of disposition of aspirant to the tantric mysteries: 1) pasu or animal – the lowest and most base, 2) vira or hero – the middling and perhaps most common, and 3) the divya or divine disposition. The Tibetans usually refer to this as lesser, middling, and greater capacities. The famous five M’s of so-called left-handed tantra are now discussed. There is occur in both Hindu and Buddhist tantra but I should note that I have never heard or read anything that mentions the term vamamarg, or ‘left-handed tantra’ in Buddhist works. But it is sometimes referred to as viracara, or the practice of the hero and this is in most Tibetan tantras. The five M’s (makaras) are meat, fish, wine, parched grain, and sexual intercourse. These are antinomial in the sense that they were taboo to orthodox Vedic Brahmins. These are sometimes depicted and represented symbolically and sometimes actually. In Buddhist Tantra they are usually utilized in the so-called higher tantras classification  - Anuttarayogatantras. Other of these types of sacraments are mentioned including hemp, ginger, and the wife of another. Apparently, hemp was used as a preliminary to many tantric rites. Bharati thinks this was mainly an aid to overcome cultural inhibitions to what was to become a rite of taboo and sexuality. Bharati gives descriptions of both Hindu and Buddhist versions of these rites. In the Hindu one given from the Rudrayamala the sage Vasistha receives instruction from Siva in the form of Buddha. The Buddhist version is a tantra of the sow-goddess Vajravarahi (Vajrayogini).



Bharati thinks that the emphasis on withholding the semen in many Buddhist tantras and the notion of releasing it in some Hindu tantras has to do with the Vedic emphasis on sacrifice. Indeed the release of semen has been known to be symbolic of sacrifice and indeed sacrifice is the central element of old Vedic tradition. Yet there was an element of retaining the semen even in Vedic India, particularly among the Vratya brotherhoods who were groups of somewhat outcaste young males prone to cattle-raiding in a sort of coming of age rite. Some scholars think these societies evolved into the tradition of forest yogis and ascetics that later became the hermit holy men that taught Buddha. The loss of semen was regarded as the loss of magico-spiritual energy. In this light I am not sure I agree with Bharati on this point. Tantra was certainly not designed to be hedonistic, though perhaps on occasion it became that way as some texts mention looser orgies after the austere and meditative rites were performed. Sexuality in tantra is typically a form of yoga that often involves a reversal of the usual flow of sexual energy and even sometimes a reversal of functions – as there are practices where the male takes in fluid through the tip of the penis through yogic bhanda (locks). In Buddhist tantra the feminine energy transforms into the Great Bliss, or mahasukha, that transcends ordinary bliss and becomes the ‘pure pleasure’ untainted by worldliness.



There are several other topics discussed: the kalas, or segments, equated with various goddesses, the Sanskrit syllables, or matrikas (fierce mothers) also equated with goddesses. He talks about the modern Hindu Renaissance where old orthodox Hinduism of uneducated Brahmins has been replaced by intellectual Swamis educated in Western languages and philosophy. He suggests that old style Hindus were more ritualistic and less intellectual though quite well trained and learned. Among the modern Hindu reformers he notes Rammohan Roy, Dayananda, Vivekananda, Shivananda, Chinmayananda, and Krishna Manon. He also suggests that the polytheistic element was more prevalant in the past and the modernizers have favored a more monotheistic approach, perhaps to accord better with their Western education. He notes that most tantras are more concerned with mantra than any other topic. As a goal of tantric practice, Bharati favors the term ‘enstasy’ coined by Mircea Eliade to describe the goals of the contemplative traditions of India. Hindu terms such as samadhi and kaivalya can refer to the spiritually integrated state sought. Siddhi, or magical accomplishment or power is often given as a tantric goal. In the Mahasiddha tradition it is often the supreme siddhi as mahamudra siddhi that is the quintessential accomplishment. Bharati does not mention this at all even though it is a famed practice among siddhas and yogis in Buddhist tantric India and Tibet. In the Tibetan mahamudra lineages derived ultimately from the 84 Indian mahasiddhas – the technique of mahamudra is said to be a form of vipasyana, or non-conceptual insight based on previous development of one’s shamata, or calm abiding meditation. Interestingly, he notes that a yogic goal in Vajrayana is to immobilize mind, breath, and seminal fluid. These may be referred to in sandha-language as the three jewels (Buddha, dharma, sangha) or the three nectars. I once had a Dzogchen teaching where the teacher emphasized the three styles of immovability: immovability of body, sensations, and mind. This may be a parallel. Indeed in yoga there is stopping of the breath (kumbhaka), control of the sperm, and in mahamudra and dzogchen there is the spontaneous stopping of thought. He also does not mention the classification of tantras given in Tibetan texts: The four-fold classification given ion the Sama (new) tradition and the six-fold given in the Nyingma (old) ttadition.



This was a good book with much to ponder although I can think of many ways of approaching the topic that the author did not. This may have much to do with the time period. Since then there has been much delineation within the tradition, particularly among Tibetan lamas. The lamas note that Buddhist tantra, or Vajrayana, is a subdivision of the Mahayana, that traditionally it is said to be based in the so-called ‘third turning of the wheel of dharma’ which is concerned with Tathagatagarbha, or Buddha Nature which refers to the inherent capacity to awaken from delusion. This in the Vajrayana format there is the consonant supposition that one is already enlightened or liberated beneath the apparent stains of delusion. Thus one sees all appearance as the body of the deity, all sound as the sound of the mantra of the deity, and all mentation as the mind of the deity. Bharati did not mention much about Jain tantra or Vaisnava tantra (which probably came later). He does talk a bit about the Sahajayana. Sahaja is sometimes defined as ‘effortless naturalness’ and refers to a quasi-tantric movement mainly of Bengal where ‘spontaneity’ was a key feature. It is related to mahamudra and the mahasiddha tradition but was also taken up by the Vaisnavas. Apparently, the modern Bengali Bauls retain some of it as a compendium tradition of Vaisnava sahajayana, Buddhistic mahasiddha elements, and Islamic Sufi love pandits and musicians. Bharati noticed the interests of Western occultists in Tantra and was rather ambivalent about it. There are now (and have been in the past) Americanized and Western versions of tantra that vary but mostly emphasize the ‘sacred sexuality’ aspect. These are mostly non-traditional with perhaps some traditional elements added. These are Neo-tantra and seem to mostly refer to Hindu traditions.

========================

#64453 From: Sreenadh OG <sreesog@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:25 am
Subject: In Nomine Babalon: 156 Adorations to the Scarlet Goddess
sreesog
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear All,
  One more book review from Chakra ji:http://chakra37.blogspot.in/2012/01/in-nomine-babalon-156-adorations-to.html
Love and regards,
Sreenadh
=======================

In Nomine Babalon: 156 Adorations to the Scarlet Goddess

Book Review: In Nomine Babalon: 156 Adorations to the Scarlet Goddess
by one who adores the Goddess (Dark Star Press 2011)

I stumbled on this gem by accident. This edition is limited to a mere 156 copies of which I have #101. It is simple in structure with each adoration being composed of four lines of verse, the final line being the same in each. Before and after the adorations are a few interesting excerpts from the Gnostic text – The Thunder, Perfect Mind – from the Nag Hammadi Library.

The poetry is variable, quite good mostly and ranging from a bit slow to exquisite. There are some interesting poetical adaptations from Liber AL – The Book of the Law - and other sentiments from Thelemic Mysticism and the ceremonial magic and alchemy traditions. There are also many references to varying mythologies. I think that this poetry would work great being recited (partially or wholly) in a ritual format. Strangely enough with the tag line – I raise up the cup and adore Babalon! – one could even take libations while reciting. At 156 drinks it could even make for an intoxicating drinking game!

Babalon, as a goddess-form has a reference to the biblical Whore of Babylon but more so to the Sacred Marriage, or Hieros Gamos motif, appearing first in written form as the ritualized mating play of the Sumerian Inanna and her shepherd Dumuzi, later to become Ishtar and Tammuz. Ishtar would become Astarte and Athtart among the Canaanites with similar love goddesses among the Phoenicians and in other places along the Mediterranean. The birth of Aphrodite continued this tradition. In some of these traditions she is a goddess of love and of war (Ishtar) and in some a spouse to the war god. She is most often associated with planet Venus as the war god is to Mars – thus the adoration:

I invoke You, sweet lady, under Your stars
    Adoring the union of Venus and Mars
        Offering all to their fornication!
    I raise up the cup and adore Babalon!

Indeed the romance of Venus and Mars (Aphrodite and Ares) can be considered a tryst in Greek tradition. But too it is a respite from the pains of war as love tames it for a while. Babalon is a goddess of passion and lust. She was revived in this wild form by Crowley and the subsequent momentum of the philosophy of Thelema. Her ‘egregore’ is fresh and modern, powerful and actively worked, a bit like the immediacy of the Voodoo loa. She represents the raw power of the liberated woman, the potency of intimacy, the breaking of obsolete and ineffective paradigms, and even the akwardness energy inherent in the uncertainty of sharing and confiding. She has been compared to the Shaktis of Hindu tantra who represent active energy and to the Goddess Kundalini who uncoils and rises toward enlightenment. Babalon may have characteristics of an all-purpose goddess, Ma Devi, or as a triple goddess – maid, crone, and mother. In Thelemic Mysticism she potentially rebirths the aspirant as - Babe in the Egg – coming forth beyond the fetters of ego. She may also be associated with the bending and breaking of rules, customs, and traditions – as Mother of Abominations. Indeed, in this day and age of androgyny and LGBT manifestations and rights she may be even be a he, a hybrid, or a hermaphrodite. Her mate is not only the shepherd and the god of war but in Thelema, “the Beast” which may take several forms - from Crowley as 666, the figurative Beast of Revelations, to man’s bestial nature to the composite Pan-form of the androgynous Baphomet. Indeed Baphomet shares egregore with Babalon as a deity-form of both esotericism and eroticism. Indeed the erotic is in the esoteric for the energy of reproduction pervades nature. She rides the beast – perhaps not as he on his back but as he bringing her forth on all fours. In terms of weakening the obsolete patriarchal, Osirian, now slave-religions – she is the liberated woman re-exalted. For better or worse she is the awesome force of the unsubjugated woman. She is also called – The Gate of the Sun – and – Understanding, indicating the Qabalistic Sephiroth Binah, the first of the Three Supernals beyond the Abyss. Into her cup is offered the ‘blood of the saints’ – the past effort and struggle of the newly slain ego - which cannot emerge beyond the Abyss. Her power and liberation are expressed thus:

  Now let the woman be girt with a sword,
She bows down to no man, submits to no lord!
Her strength is her armor, her father the sun,
       I raise up the cup and adore Babalon!

She is a symbol of that which is noble and shameless, guiltless and fearless:

Live life without shame, live life without guilt
For there is no law beyond Do What Thou Wilt!
        With no fear of sin or of inquisition
       I raise up the cup and adore Babalon!

Babalon represents breaking free from the chains of authority and conformity – and if you happened to have noticed – it is the roles of women and the guidance of their charges, ie. children – that are the most restricted by the old systems. Here is a section with notions from Liber AL about moving from old aeon to new aeon paradigms and activity:

The servants of slave gods are down on their kness;
          Bahlasti! Ompehda! I spit upon these!
  While they await battles from visions by John
         I raise up the cup and adore Babalon!

Guiltless embrace of ecstasy is noted in the following lines with more impetus from the Book of the Law:

    Give over thy life to love and to bliss,
And know that no god will deny thee for this!
  Divided we are for the chance of union!
    I raise up the cup and adore Babalon!

Babalon is also a goddess of initiation and the mysteries. Indeed the word “whore” in the Hebrew sense may have referred to the promiscuity of deities, as in polytheism. Here we can see a whore as one who interacts intimately with multiple god-forms and traditions, one who samples and integrates the many flavors of the magical and mystical – as an old friend used to say she is – Whore of Initiations. The following adoration shows her as The Star trump of the Tarot, the water-bearer and patron of the sign and Age of Aquarius:

  Thou goddess who pours out the life of the stars
   And kneels by the water with Your golden jars
From which flows the life that You have just drawn,
           I raise up the cup and adore Babalon!

The joining of devotion and eroticism in these adorations in a sea of meter, rhyme, and magick is most refreshing:

Thou art the mother, the sister, the whore,
   Thou art life, Thee! Thee I adore!
Thou art most beautiful, o scarlet woman,
  I raise up the cup and adore Babalon!

The goddess as the field is a recurring archetype of humans. The matrix from which life springs and returns has been depicted as feminine since early humans discovered and awed at feminine cycles and powers. In this age of the quantum vacuum, the implicate order, the Akashic Field or Akashic Echo is coming the realization that the great receptivity field of being underlies and pervades all things – and that our source and destiny is with this very field:

The wheels of the universe spinning around,
 From tiniest matter to the pure spirit crowned!
  From great galaxies to the unseen neuron!
     I raise up the cup and adore Babalon!

Babalon is a living all-purpose goddess-archetype of freedom, erotic energy. and inspiration. As humans we are nearly forced by our nature to deal with and develop a relationship with our ecstatic complex, our desire for pleasure and bliss. If we are sensible and careful with this relationship we may be able to make that relationship a healthy and happy one. Perhaps she also represents this subduing yet indulging and optimizing of our ongoing quest for bliss:

Hear the charge of the Goddess, “To me! To me!”
  As she beckons to those who wish to be free;
    Calling her children from hither and yon!
       I raise up the cup and adore Babalon!

Babalon has the potential to go beyond and be much more than the traditional goddess-forms of Wicca and old paganisms. She encompasses them and transcends them. Personally, I see deities and anthropomorphized forces as archetypal energies, psychological forces, symbolic mythical forms, qualities, principals, and neteru. Their reality is as we make it and devotion to them is devotion to our own potentially refined natures. As the following verse suggests she is there within the collective offering to heal us and perhaps the rift in our Dionysian ecstasy complex:

         In Her love chant She is calling to all –
The beast and the man, the great and the small.
 Listen within and you will hear her beckon!
     I raise up the cup and adore Babalon!

I have put much of my own opinion of the Babalon archetype into this review but this is due to the importance of the potential I sense in this archetype for the healing of the world. Any Thelemite would most enjoy this book and hopefully there will be a bigger printing out in the future and more interest in supporting one.

=======================

#64454 From: Sreenadh OG <sreesog@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:27 am
Subject: Science and the Akashic Field: An Integral Theory of Everything
sreesog
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear All,
Another book review from Chakra ji at:http://chakra37.blogspot.in/2012/01/science-and-akashic-field-integral.html
Love and regards,
Sreenadh
========================

Science and the Akashic Field: An Integral Theory of Everything

Book Review: Science and the Akashic Field: An Integral Theory of Everything
by Ervin Laszlo (Inner Traditions 2004, 2007)

This is a quintessential cutting-edge science and philosophy book by a great thinker. What makes him a great thinker in my opinion is not merely his extensive academic credentials, but his open-mindedness and his ability to quest beyond the biases typical of academia.

This is a book about interconnectivity, non-local coherence, and the organic nature, not only at the quantum level but also at the macro level of the universe (or the Metaverse), at the level of biology in nature, and at the level of consciousness.

Sorting out the mind-boggling wonders of quantum physics and relativity into a scientific worldview that we can both understand and integrate into our lives is no easy task. Laszlo makes an admirable attempt in this book. Information is postulated as the binding force of the universe in the sense that information makes up the matrix of the universe. This matrix, or quantum vacuum, is the very ‘space’ in which matter exists. Space, or “Akasha” in Sanskrit, in this theory is the field of knowledge of all that has ever been. It resembles the Holographic Theory of David Bohm where the implicate order is hidden or enfolded within (as the unseen akashic-information field/matrix) and the explicate order is the unfolded outer world we see and experience. Laszlo notes that science is the least subjective way of understanding the world compared to the others: “... personal insight, mystical intuition, art and poetry, as well as the belief systems of the world’s religions.”

Physicist’s attempts at Grand Unified Theories (GUTs) are recounted as are Quantum physicists’ notions of a Theory of Everything (TOE) – one attempt of which is Laszlo’s ideas in this book. Compelling reasons to do this among physicists are the discrepancies and incompatibilities between Einstein’s General Theory of Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. It is mainly these two major explanatory trends in physics that beg to be unified. The goal is to explain everything in a logically consistent form. Laszlo thinks it is possible and easier to step back from the physical and create an Integral Theory of Everything (I-TOE). Here he suggests that behind and beyond the manifestation of the physical universe – there is the field/matrix from which it is derived. This field, or quantum vacuum, is an information field. This is similar to what Bohm calls ‘in-formation’ where it is the field that precedes and fills ‘form’.

He discusses paradigm changes in science and the ideas arrived at through puzzles and fables that drive them. He gives three science ‘fables’ for the long emerging paradigm change in physics: 1) multiple or parallel universes, 2) observer-created universe, and 3) holographic universe. These three notions seem to be the three lead drivers for the emergence of an integral theory of everything (I-TOE).

Next examined are what Laszlo calls “Puzzles of Coherence.” Coherence puzzles are compared between physics, biology, and consciousness. It seems that these three domains show remarkable and unexpected situations of coherence – that may well be related to one another – through the postulated underlying hidden quantum information matrix. Simple coherence in physic refers to light waves having constant difference in phase:

“Coherence means that phase relations remain constant and processes and rhythms are harmonized. Ordinary light sources are coherent over a few meters; lasers, microwaves, and other technological light sources remain coherent for considerably greater distances. But the kind of coherence discovered today is more complex and significant than the standard form. It indicates a quasi-instant correlation among the parts or elements of a system, whether that system is an atom, and organism, or a galaxy. All parts of a system of such coherence are so correlated that what happens to one part also happens to the other parts”

The coherence known as “quantum non-locality” suggests that matter and energy grade into one another at deeper levels of analysis (into smaller units) and so have a quality of inseparability. Quanta can only be said to exist in “virtual states”  and in several of these virtual states simultaneously – until one is ‘measured’ scientifically, whereby it is pulled out of the virtual state into a ‘real’ state but only part of that state can actually be observed and measured. Quantum non-locality appears to be coherent in a way that shows complementarity among particles:

“Quanta are highly sociable: once they share the same identical state they remain linked no matter how far they travel from each other. When one pair of a formerly connected quanta is subjected to an interaction (that is, when it is observed or measured), it chooses its own “real” state – and its twin also chooses its own state, but not freely: it chooses it according to the choice of the first twin. The second twin always chooses a complementary state, never the same as the first twin.”

I believe it is often the “spins” that are complementary. In any case, it is hard to know what to make metaphysically about such notions – though they do seem to indicate a universe that is perhaps holographic (each part includes the whole in some way) and potentially malleable in some way beyond what we now can do.

Newtonian physics seemed to solve problems and seal our knowledge while relativity and quantum mechanics made new problems, some rather unsolvable and so our knowledge is left to leave more to mystery. Again regarding quanta Laszlo states:

“They are sociable entities, and under certain conditions they are so thoroughly “entangled” with each other that they are not just here or there, but in all measured places at the same time. Their non-locality respects neither time nor space.”

He goes through the famous EPR experiments of Einstein and company and the more recent “teleportation” experiments which may have some interesting technological features in the future – such as super fast quantum computers.

In considering coherence in cosmology he notes several cosmological puzzles that hint of coherence: 1) the violation of charge and parity, 2) the energy of “empty” space, 3) the accelerating expansion of the cosmos, 4) the “missing mass” of the universe, 5) the “horizon problem”, 6) the coherence of some cosmic ratios – certain recurring ratios are favored, 7) the fine-tuning of the universal constants – extreme statistical improbabilities are overcome. These are all ‘puzzles of coherence’ he says:

“... and they raise the possibility that this universe did not arise in the context of a random fluctuation of the underlying quantum vacuum. Instead it may have been born in the womb of a prior “meta-universe”: a Metaverse.”

Coherence in biology is apparently being discovered more and more as we better see how genes, cells, whole organisms, species, and niches show high levels of “entanglement” among their parts. Apparently the ‘dynamic equilibrium’ of biological states “requires a very high degree of coherence.” This level of coherence strongly resembles quantum coherence and so the living organism has been called a “macroscopic quantum system.” The ‘adaptive response’ of the genome shows abilities that go far beyond mere chance. A major focus of biophysics is now the interconnectivity within an organism, among organisms, and between the organism and the environment.

Regarding puzzles of coherence in consciousness, Laszlo notes that thought and image transference experiments indicate that consciousness may not be wholly individualized as previously thought. Indigenous shamanic peoples and other ancient and psychic people have long held this view. This ‘transpersonal interconnectivity’ is being suggested by many psychologists and consciousness researchers. Even the universality of human symbols and ‘archetypes’ suggests such interconnectivity. Laszlo goes through several experiments in telepathy, connectivity among identical twins, and teleosomatic medicine (healing from a distance) - which he compares to Frazer’s sympathetic magic.

To summarize the remarkable puzzles of coherence in nature and to suggest an explanation Laszlo notes that:

“These connections indicate links between the particles that make up the material substance of the universe, as well as between that parts or elements of the integrated systems constituted of the particles. The links fine-tune the particles and the elements of the systems, creating space- and time-transcending coherence among them.”

He goes through some of the ideas in physics about the ‘quantum vacuum’ as a subtle field and more hypothetical ideas such as the ‘Higgs field.’ In cosmological theories it is the nature of the quantum vacuum that would determine the fate of the universe – whether it would continue to expand or begin to contract into a possible ‘Big Crunch.’  The quantum vacuum is said to transmit light, energy, and pressure. Laszlo and physicists such as John Wheeler suggest that a more subtle ‘element’ than matter and energy is transmitted as well through the quantum vacuum. This element is information – or ‘in-formation’ in Bohm’s terminology to distinguish it from the common term. Laszlo gives the following rather vague definition:

“In-formation is a subtle quasi-instant, non-evanescent, and non-energetic connection between things at different locations in space and events at different points in time. Such connections are termed “non-local” in the natural sciences and “transpersonal” in consciousness research. In-formation links things (particles, atoms, molecules, organisms, ecologies, solar systems, entire galaxies, as well as the mind and consciousness associated with some of these things) regardless of how far they are from each other and how much time has passed since connections were created between.”

One possible mechanism for how this might work has to do with quantum spins having a minute magnetic effect that makes vortices that carry information around in the matrix. When two or more vortices meet there is an interference pattern. “This interference pattern carries information on the entire ensemble of the particles that produced the vortices.” This idea is very similar to holographic theory where interference patterns between parts convey information about the whole. Like many of the other ‘fields’ in science: electromagnetic, gravitational, various quantum fields, Higgs field, etc – the In-formation Field – cannot be measured directly, only inferred from its effects.

In ancient India the idea of the element of space, or Akasha explains a similar hidden medium or matrix from which energy, or prana, arises and returns - in a recurring cycle of universes manifesting and de-manifesting. This very same process is suggested in scientific cosmological theories. It should be noted that the Akashic Field, in Laszlo’s view as well as in ancient Indian view, is not separate from the prana within it, but consists of both energy-matter and in-formation and this altogether makes of the “in-formed universe.”

Regarding notions of a First Cause, a Prime Mover, or a Creator God of the universe Laszlo notes that cosmological theories suggest no such First Cause for our current universe which is thought to have come from a previous universe – but beyond and behind that no one knows. Several of these theories suggest that universes arise from the quantum vacuum as an effect of some instability that creates a Big Bang. Laszlo seems to think that there was some original creative act of “metaversal Design” but in any case this is something it seems we will never know empirically. He applies this same logic to evolutionary science where he suggests that the arguments in favor of evolution and those in favor of design may not be wholly incompatible. He suggests that life may have been ‘designed for evolution’ though I can see philosophical fallibility in this argument.

Next we have speculation on the nature of evolution in a multi-universe conception. Laszlo suggests that the evolution of universes is cyclic but not repetitive. He suggests an increasing complexity (through time?) of physical to physical-biological to physical-biological-psychological.

Statistically speaking it is extremely likely that there is life in other parts of the universe. Laszlo suggests that shamanic knowledge is possibly the accessing of “extraterrestrial” information or possibly (as well) sensing the Akashic Field (A-Field). He suggests that our ability to achieve balance and sustainability with nature may depend on our ability to re-learn how to sense the A-Field.  Since most cosmological theories postulate an end to the current universe – the evolutionary goals must either be attained before the end of that universe or transferred to the next universe. He does not mention this but such a scenario exists in the Buddhist Abhidharma where universes are said to be destroyed in different ways by different elements and up to certain levels of meditative stability before the next universe ensues and is re-inhabited by those beings at their respective karmic dispositions. Laszlo thinks that the quantum in-formation field, the Akashic Field, exists beyond the current series of universes – that it survives intact the destruction of the universe:

“The most fundamental element of reality is the quantum vacuum, the energy- and in-formation-filled plenum that underlies, generates, and interacts with our universe, and with whatever universes may exist in the Metaverse.”

Hindu and Chinese cosmology have a similar view. In India everything dissolves back into Akasha, to a state of Being called Brahman. Then it manifests back out to a state of Becoming, called Maya. The ceaseless inhalation exhalation cycle of being and becoming is called the Lila of Brahman, the play of ceaseless creation and dissolution.

Part 2 of the book concerns questions – mostly philosophical ones, that may be addressed by this theory and so this section is rather speculative. In discussing the nature of consciousness he makes the important observation that the association of brain function, no matter how specific, with consciousness does not entail that the brain creates consciousness. He notes that the materialist view of consciousness still predominates in scientific circles though I am guessing this has been deteriorating gradually but steadily over the years. The biggest problem with it can be summed up in the question “How can matter generate mind?” so there is a big disconnect with this approach. The answer may be end up being that matter is conscious in some way, perhaps at the quantum level as this book suggests. The notion of both mind and matter being conscious is not new and is present in several ancient belief systems. As a philosophical position it is known as  panpsychism. Laszlo gives this an evolutionary component so that we have an evolving consciousness. He calls this evolutionary panpsychism. Here mind and matter are different aspects of the same reality rather than separate as in the dualistic theories. Matter is what we apprehend when we look at something from the outside and mind is what we apprehend when we look at something from the inside. The panpsychic notions of the philosophers Alfred North Whitehead, George Wald, and the Apollo astronaut Edgar Mitchell are also recounted.

As to how we and all matter access and influence the A-field it is noted that all matter oscillates at certain frequencies. These oscillations generate wavefields which interact with other objects and wavefields which make interference patterns that convey information as in holography. These are theoretically decodable with the help of reference waves which can apparently be any wave. There are also ideas of resonating wave patterns, of collective holograms, and super-super holograms. One idea is that information is transferred when waves resonate and theoretically one could tune one’s consciousness to resonate with the holograms in the A-field. This ‘phase conjugation’ or ‘selective resonance’ is a frequency matching. Speculations about the evolutionary path of consciousness abound. Ken Wilbur gives the sequence as physical to biological to mental to subtle (which is archetypal, trans-individual, and intuitive) to causal to ultimate consciousness. R.M Bucke sees it as evolving towards ‘cosmic consciousness.” Eastern mystics and Western occultists often see it as a union of individual consciousness with universal consciousness. The question is whether the universe itself is conscious. In that case one under Laszlo’s theory one could have a mystical union with the quantum vacuum. Is the quantum matrix God (or Goddess)? The A-field theory could also apply to notions of consciousness beyond the body and beyond the brain. NDEs, OBEs and ADEs (after-death communications) as well as reincarnation can all be explained to a degree by postulating the quantum vacuum

In a chapter called – The Poetry of Akashic Vision – Laszlo gives a story of how things might be under his theory in a poetic rendering. Here he associates the quantum vacuum with the “self-realized Mind of God.”

“The universe is a memory-filled world of constant and enduring interconnection, a world where everything in-forms – acts on and interacts with – everything else.”

Laszlo notes that the mere presence of non-local coherence is evidence for the field responsible for it much as the effects of gravity are considered evidence for the gravitational field. Delving further into coherence he comes upon Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principal and all that it implies of the lack of predictability of quanta.

“The world, said Heisenberg, is built as a mathematical, and not a material, structure.”

Bohm’s hidden variables theory gives order to the universe with the idea that the unseen of the implicate is guiding the outer, or explicate order. More physicists are apparently considering this view.

Laszlo goes through the phenomenon of coherence in nature in more detail in a later chapter and in the final chapter he gives an autobiographical account of his long-developing “theory of everything” first written about in his book – The Connectivity Hypothesis.

Overall, this is a great book and Laszlo is an intriguing thinker. I think he is hovering in the right direction with – interconnectivity – and in showing relationships in the domains of physics, biology, and consciousness and how all these may be connected. Although I have never leaned toward intelligent design I have always like the old Wiccan chant – “We all come from the Goddess and to her we shall return” and perhaps she can be said to be  the mind of God, the Quantum Matrix, the Mother of Space.


========================

#64455 From: Sreenadh OG <sreesog@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:29 am
Subject: The Chaldean Oracles of Zoroaster
sreesog
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Another Book Review from Chakra ji: http://chakra37.blogspot.in/2012/01/chaldean-oracles-of-zoroaster.html
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The Chaldean Oracles of Zoroaster

Book Review: The Chaldean Oracles of Zoroaster  (compiled) by W. Wynn Westcott (1895) – based on translations by 18th century Neoplatonist Thomas Taylor

The Chaldean Oracles of Zoroaster are basically a collection of aphorisms and cosmological principles said to have been originally collected from the Chaldean, or Babylonian/Persian Wisdom tradition. They were collected and published in the Renaissance. Their origin in Chaldea and association with Zoroaster has been disputed. They were admired and expanded on by Neoplatonists such as Porphyry, Plotinus, and Iamblichus of Syria. It is thought that they form a Hellenistic Age Alexandrian synthesis similar to the lore associated with Hermes Trismegistus. They are thought to be fragmentary and probably “bastardized” with later Neoplatonist ideas. There are apparently several varying versions of the text from the Renaissance and Westcott does well to note which phrases came from which versions to some extent. Some of the adages may be as late as Renaissance time as some suggest. I must also say that I found them to be quite cryptic. Cosmological principles can be cryptic as it is but these seem jumbled around as well. It is nice to read the text as is but would perhaps be more useful with commentary, although preferably with detailed commentary with someone knowledgeable both philosophically and academically, knowing both the esoteric tradition and the continuing history of the peoples and places involved. Westcott was a Theosophist and Golden Dawn Hermeticist so his introduction is helpful and I guess he does provide some pretty useful line by line commentary.

Some of the early part has cosmological principles similar in styles and layout to the Hebrew Qabala and there may well be a connection. Whether the Oracles influenced the Qabala or vice versa is unknown but I think the Jews’ captivity in Babylon and subsequent liberation by Cyrus the Persian emperor had a profound influence on their doctrines and Qabalistic doctrine may have may have emerged from such a synthesis.

The translations come from the Greek. Zoroaster may have been a generic term for “Prince of the Magi” and may have referred to any of six teachers varying widely in time as Westcott notes. Westcott lists the available versions from 1563 to 1835, about 13 in all, some which included some commentary. Chaldean thought is thought to have had a big influence on Ancient Greek thought – perhaps even influencing Plato. The same has been noted concerning Persian ideas and forms. Babylonian astronomy and philosophy was said to be transferred by Berosus but that may have been the “official” version of things.

Taylor divided the aphorisms into those thought to have been produced by a “Zoroaster” from antiquity and those thought to have been composed by Julian and other Neoplatonic Theurgists during the reign of Roman emperor Marcus Antonius who took their authority from Plotinus. Attributing to them the word “oracles” is thought to have been an honorific term to give them a sense of sacredness rather than to be oracular though the Chaldeans are certainly thought to have had oracles and omens – especially astronomical ones – they being the likely originators of predictive astrology.

From Diodorus, it is noted in the intro that Chaldean philosophical wisdom was passed from father to son in family lineages of Magi. Westcott notes that it is best studied in relation to Qabalah and Tarot symbolism. He provides comparison tables of the Four Worlds of the Qabalistic framework to the World/Minds of the Chaldean system. The comparisons, while not exact – have some clear parallels. Both are oriented from subtle to gross, from unmanifest to manifest, not too unlike the Vedic cosmology which may have been their distant source. No doubt Westcott noticed this among similar schemes in Theosophy. The World of Supramundane Light, or Paternal Depth/First Mind corresponds to the Qabalistic World of Atziluth, or God, which is composed of Ain, Ain Soph, and Ain Soph Aur (Negativity, Limitless, and Limitless Light). The parallel of Light is most pronounced here. The  Empyrean World, or Second Mind of the Chaldean system is linked with the Qabalistic World of Briah, composed of the Three Supernals, the sephira Kether, Chokmah, and Binah. The Chaldean Ethereal World is corresponded to the World of Yetzira, or Formation. The Elementary World, called the Flower of Fire in the Chaldean System, as the Earth Matter, is a clear parallel to the World of Assiah, the Earth Matter of Qabala which contains the sepheroth Malkuth.

The Chaldean scheme of beings or hierarchy of intelligences in the universe goes from Archangels to unzoned gods to zoned gods (zonei, or planetary gods) to higher demons , ie. Angels to human souls then to lower elementals of the four types and finally to the so-called evil demons, Lucifugous, or kliphoth.

There is a notion of the seven spheres (indeed the seven being a powerful Babylonian number), one emanating from the Empyreal World, and three each in the Ethereal and Elemental Worlds. These are said to be not the same as the seven planetary forces, though the planetary forces are said to represent them on a lower plane.

“The Oracles speak of the "Paths of the Soul," the tracings of inflexible fire by which its essential parts are associated in integrity; while its various "summits," "fountains," and "vehicula," are all traceable by analogy with universal principles.”

Each of the Worlds is said to be ruled by an intelligence, a Monad, but also to contain a Triad. The Monads of the Four Worlds has a clear parallel in the Qabala where the worlds are represented by the four letter name of God as Tetragramaton with a president for each letter.

Psellus, one of the later interpreters of the oracles considered man to be composed of three kinds of souls: divine soul, rational soul, and irrational (passional) soul – residing according to Plato’s scheme in the head, heart, and stomach zone respectively. The divine soul is considered immortal, the rational soul could become immortal, and the irrational soul is equated to the astral body. If one considers it – this is not far off from soul component conceptions among Eurasian shamanic traditions. Spiritual life is more or less concentration on the subtle soul work and not getting caught up in the wiles and passions of the irrational soul. The astral or irrational soul was equated to the imaginal realm and lunar sphere (as in Qabala).

Chaldean Theurgy was said to involve communicational magic with planetary forces and star clusters (constellations) in a sort of celestial yoga:

“Unto the Planets, too, colour and sound were also attributed;, the planetary colours are connected with the ethers, and each of the Planetary forces was said to have special dominion over, or affinity with, one or other of the Zodiacal constellations. Communion with the hierarchies of these constellations formed part of the Chaldæan theurgy, and in a curious fragment it is said: "If thou often invokest it" (the celestial constellation called the Lion) "then when no longer is visible unto thee the Vault of the Heavens, when the Stars have lost their light the lamp of the Moon is veiled, the Earth abideth not, and around thee darts the lightning flame, then all things will appear to thee in the form of a Lion!"

Perhaps this is the source of Crowley’s injunction to “Invoke often.”

Visions and oracles from dreams were watched closely. The Chaldeans may well have had a well developed notion of karma as cause and effect link to the soul’s path through live(s). The Chaldean Magi were said to be ascetics of a sort – though Zoroastrianism itself was less ascetic in nature. They were said to live simple lives close to nature and be nourished on cheese, herbs, and bread. The so-called Persian Magi may have originally been the Medians subjugated by the Persians from the south and so have had a different philosophical bent than the Zoroastrian Persians of the empire. Chaldea also came to include Persia and Arabia in later times. The notions of the dualistic battle between light and darkness inherent in both Zoroastrian and Gnostic lore is also present in the Oracles.

The importance of Will in the Yogic/Alchemical process of Theurgy is recounted here in the intro:
“Will is the grand agent in the mystic progress; its rule is all potent over the nervous system. By Will the fleeting vision is fixed on the treacherous waves of the astral Light; by Will the consciousness is impelled to commune with the divinity: yet there is not One Will, but three Wills--the Wills, namely, of the Divine, the Rational and Irrational Souls--to harmonize these is the difficulty.”

The chapters are arranged as: The Oracles of Zoroaster, Ideas, Particular Souls, Matter, Magical and Philosophical Precepts, and Oracles From Porphyry.

The first oracle notes God as having the head of a hawk in both elder and younger forms. Westcott links this to the Egyptian Horus: there was both an elder Horus and a Horus the younger so two forms of Horus. Taylor linked this oracle with later Theurgists and the God with Kronos, or Saturn, though the Horus linkage is rather infallible one would think. This unbegotten God is said to emanate a spiral force. The Eternal Aeon is mentioned as a support for life. This is a bit similar to the Thelemic renderings of Pan-Aeonic forces – or the all-pervading Aeon that transcends time. As the first of rather obvious Hellenistic deity syncretism we see the oracle:

“6. The Chaldæans call the God Dionysos (or Bacchus), Iao in the Phœnician tongue (instead of the Intelligible Light), and he is also called Sabaoth, signifying that he is above the Seven poles, that is the Demiurgos.”

IAO is a magickal formula used extensively in Crowley’s Thelemic system.

The various levels of souls emanating from the Paternal Mind are said be feminine and fiery. The Three Supernals are even mentioned by name and one would have to assume that this refers to that World of the Qabala. There is recounted the unfolding of Monad, Dyad, and Triad in the manner of Neoplatonism and here Westcott makes a note:

“What the Pythagoreans signify by Monad, Duad and Triad, or Plato by Bound, Infinite and Mixed; that the Oracles of the Gods intend by Hyparxis, Power and Energy." 

Regarding the section on Ideas we have notions of the soul, the senses, and symbols entering the world from the Paternal Intellect (guarded by the Three Supernals?). As in Platonism all emanates from the One, the Monad, so this all seems to follow the Platonic Monotheistic system. This descent seems to coincide with the breakup of the One into subject-object dualism, not unlike the Indian notions.

Concerning the Triad of the Second World Westcott offers the following commentary:

“The Second Order of the Platonist philosophy was the "Intelligible and Intellectual Triad." Among the Chaldæans this order includes the Iynges, Synoches and Teletarchs. The Intellectual Triad of the later Platonists corresponds to the Fountains, Fontal Fathers or Cosmagogi of the Chaldæans.”

Here are also introduced some curious Hellenic symbolatry of the bosoms of both Hecate and Rhea which carry the “Life Bearing Fire.” Hecate is mentioned several times in this regard. Also in the section explaining the world of the lower elementals we see from Greek mythology that Python, Typhon, and Echidna, being the children of Gaia and Tartaros, and being united by Uranos, are given guardianship of the disordered lower forces after a similar Chaldean Triad not mentioned. Irrational demons and Water elementals are also mentioned.

This God as Father is referred to as animator – placing Mind in the Soul and both of these in the human body. In the Soul he placed symbols. The “Divine Spark” is said to have been made from a mingling of Mind, Divine Spirit, and Holy Love.

Here is an Oracle given in the words of Proclus:

“98. The Oracles delivered by the Gods celebrate the essential fountain of every Soul; the Empyrean, the Ethereal and the Material. This fountain they separate from (Zoogonothea) the vivifying Goddess (Rhea), from whom (suspending the whole of Fate) they make two series or orders; the one animastic, or belonging to the Soul, and the other belonging to Fate. They assert that the Soul is derived front the animastic series, but that sometimes it becometh subservient to Fate, when passing into an irrational condition of being,. it becometh subject to Fate instead of to Providence.”

The section on Matter concerns the orders of the elements and the heavenly bodies. Nymphs and water are associated with the lunar and celestial, filling the abysses – as matter pervades the world. There is mention of ‘The Seven Firmaments of the Kosmos’ which we see in Hermetic/Neoplatonic/Alchemical diagrams. Kronos is given as the Sun Assessor and as the pole lord. The Goddess (I am assuming Rhea here) collects the cycles of the “chiefs of the air”: the Melody of the Ether, the Sun, and the Spirit of the Moon.
In the section on Precepts which is quite cryptic in parts we see that placing too much faith in divination is discouraged. We see the Gnostic style revulsion of the darkness:

“145. Stoop not down unto the Darkly-Splendid World; wherein continually lieth a faithless Depth, and Hades wrapped in clouds, delighting in unintellible images, precipitous, winding, a black ever-rolling Abyss; ever espousing a Body unluminous, formless and void.

146. Stoop not down, for a precipice lieth beneath the Earth, reached by a descending Ladder which hath Seven Steps, and therein is established the Throne of an evil and fatal force.”

Here we can perhaps see the earliest renderings that later became the Judeo-Christian-Islamic notions of Hell. These notions are well thought to have been derived from Persian dualism. The seven steps seem reminiscent of the Ziggurat in reverse or with Inanna’s descent.

There is mention of the barbarous Names of Evocation and the injunction not to change them – which securely places the Theurgists in the ceremonial magic tradition. Divinity (at least at the 3 lower souls level) in the form of fire or sacred fire emanating from Divinity rather squarely does associate the Oracles with Zoroastrian notions at least outwardly. That the father sent forth a soul full of mind in the form of feminine fire is a recurring theme.

There is much of the notion of descending flame-soul, perhaps similar to the descent of the Qabalistic lighning bolt, but there is also perhaps a notion of the path of returning to the subtle as the following adages suggest:

“170. Having put on the completely armed-vigour of resounding Light, with triple strength fortifying the Soul and the Mind, He must put into the Mind the various Symbols, and not walk dispersedly on the empyræan path, but with concentration.

171. For being furnished with every kind of Armour, and armed, he is similar to the Goddess.”

172. Explore the River of the Soul, whence, or in what order you have come: so that although you have become a servant to the body, you may again rise to the Order from which you descended, joining works to sacred reason.”

These notions would be akin to the Qabalistic Path of Return or perhaps the Egyptian and other Near Eastern cults of Ascension back to the Celestial Realms.

There is advice to bridle the soul but also to apply sacred fire to heal and purify the body. There is the suggestion that the work of the Theurgist is to transcend Fate (and the Furies) – presumably through Will and perhaps as well though the intelligence of proper method.

This whole section has no commentary. It contains cryptic ritual suggestions, visions, and curious lore about Hecate again.

The final section is Hymns from Porphyry which basically describe God. Here the Monotheistic nature of the cosmology is emphasized. This Monotheism current probably did much to permit Neoplatonic thought to permeate and influence Early Christianity and later Islam, especially Sufism.

“2. There is in God an Immense Profundity of Flame! Nevertheless, the Heart should not fear to approach this Adorable Fire, or to be touched by it; it will never be consumed by this sweet Fire, whose mild and Tranquil Heat maketh the Binding, the Harmony, and the Duration of the World. Nothing subsisteth but by this Fire, which is God Himself. No Person begat Him; He is without Mother; He knoweth all things, and can be taught nothing.

He is Infallible in His designs, and His name is unspeakable, Behold now, what God is! As for us who are His messengers, We are but a Little Part of God.”

This is a classic and very important text in the occultism of the western esoteric tradition. There may well be “initiated” commentaries on it in various fraternal orders and mystery schools – whether from Renaissance times or reintegrated more recently. It is now in public domain and free from – Sacred Texts – as well as free on Kindle.
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#64456 From: Sreenadh OG <sreesog@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:33 am
Subject: The Dawn of Belief: Religion in the Upper Paleolithic of Southwestern Europe
sreesog
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Another book review from Chakra ji:http://chakra37.blogspot.in/2012/01/dawn-of-belief-religion-in-upper.html
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THe Dawn of Belief: Religion in the Upper Paleolithic of Southwestern Europe

Book Review: The Dawn of Belief: Religion in the Upper Paleolithic of Southwestern Europe by D. Bruce Dickson (University of Arizona Press 1990)

This book is a good survey of what is known of the Upper Paleolithic peoples of this part of Europe and the various academic explanations of what their beliefs may have been and the possibilities as to how they were formed.

The first section involves methodology: for defining culture and religion and the complexity of religion. He invokes the work of Emily Durkheim, Sir James Frazer, Claude Levi-Strauss and many others. In defining the complexity of religion he refers to the classification scheme of Anthony F.C. Wallace who classified cults towards increasing complexity as: 1) individualistic cults – where everyone is his own priest or shaman and no one else interfaces the supernatural for one; 2) shamanistic cults – where a part-time shaman endowed with special abilities and inspiration interfaces the supernatural on behalf of the community members of band-level societies; 3) communal cults – which are more elaborate than shamanistic cults and associated with bigger and more complex societies. In addition to shamans there are also various societies based on age, gender, kinship, and vocational abilities; 4) ecclesiastical cults – these are the most complex and exist in very large societies with much hierarchy and involve full-time priesthoods.

Next is more background into early humans before the Paleolithic period. The change from homo erectus to homo sapiens is briefly touched upon. The problem of the Neanderthals is also given where the three competing hypotheses (framed by Apsimon) are mentioned: 1) Neanderthals evolved into homo sapiens sapiens; 2) sapiens immigrated leading to extinction of Neanderthals; 3) sapiens immigrated and interbred with Neanderthals resulting in loss of distinctive Neanderthal characteristics. Consensus at the time of this book was that Neanderthals are not direct ancestors of modern humans but that may have changed or at least weakened in the last 20 years.

The divisions of the Paleolithic: Lower Paleolithic - 2.9 my to 90,000 yrs before present; Middle Paleolithic – 90,000 to 35,000 yrs before present; and Upper Paleolithic – 35,000 to 10,000 yrs bp are generally divided on the basis of changes in stone tool complexity.

The earliest evidence of human concerns beyond biological needs were noted by Stephen W. Edwards as intentional collection of red ochre and red rocks and special treatment of human and animal skulls. This activity was noted in the Early Paleolithic among homo erectus. Ochre, in the form of soft rocks and soil materials with iron oxides such as hematite, goethite, and limonite in red, yellow, brown, and black, when powdered and mixed with water and animal fat, later made excellent and durable paint – for walls and body. Humans’ relationship with ochre is exceedingly ancient and widespread. Ochre was involved in what Lewis Mumford termed “technical narcissism.” This refers to body decoration in the form of ornaments, masks, tattoos, scarifications, wigs, and clothing for purposes of establishing a human identity or purpose. It is also possible that Homo erectus was the first to utilize animal skulls. Greater complexity of tools and occasional burials with possible mortuary offerings occur in the Middle Paleolithic. Intentional burials among Neanderthals occur in widely scattered sites. It is thought that some corpses in both Neanderthal and Homo sapiens sapiens sites were bound in fetal positions – and whether this was to fit them into the hole or to bind them to keep them from returning to the living (as was done in some Germanic grave sites) is not known. There are sites where Neanderthals are thought to have stacked cave bear skulls on wall niches in a possible Bear Cult possibly similar to the bear veneration among Siberian peoples and the Ainu of Japan. Whether this was a bear cult or just where the bears died and ended up has been debated. Interestingly, a bear skull was found on a wall niche facing one entering a chamber in the recently discovered Chavez cave in southern France – a few years after the publication of this book. Another Neanderthal site in Italy shows a cave bear skull surrounded by a circle of stones. The veneration of the bear as ancestor in Siberia and the observation among Native Americans that a skinned bear looks remarkably like a human lends some credence to the bear cult scenario as well.

The Franco-Cantabria region of Southern France and Northern Spain is the main focus of the book as there are numerous Upper Paleolithic sites and caves here with well-preserved art and artifacts. The various industrial traditions through time are recounted as are the varying weather patterns through time. The Ice Ages tended to push people to the south to these regions. Large and small herd animals were available for hunting, sometimes in abundance as well as salmon spawning inland in the spring. Both the large migrating herd animals and the salmon were cyclic in availability. Portable and cave art appear. Mobile artifacts of bone, ivory, and antler become more common in the Upper Paleolithic and the appearance of personal ornaments ensues in the form of amber, shells, flint, and ochre. The number of burials increases drastically in the Upper Paleolithic. Quantity and diversity of grave goods increased much in the Upper Paleolithic. Female burials become prominent for the first time in the Upper Paleolithic. All these changes suggest a more populated, more complex, and less overall mobile society. Paleolithic peoples were thought to have lived quite short lives. One study showed only 12% of skeletons over 40 and most under 30.

Mircea Eliade coined the term “heirophany” to describe “manifestations of the sacred.” The collection and use of ochre, the arrangement of skulls, and ritual burial can fall into this category. The use of red ochre to coat corpses is thought to represent blood and to promote the idea of life to the dead presumably in another world. The above mentioned body ornaments and clothing also appear on corpses at this time. It is in the Upper Paleolithic that we see the decoration of tools, ornaments, and weapons. We see drawings and possibly symbols. Andre Leroi-Gourhan classed these implements as: 1) expendable weapons – such as spears, 2) implements of lasting utility – such as spear-throwers and pierced staffs, 3) objects to be suspended – such as ornaments, , and 4) miscellaneous objects. Engravings on mobiliary art objects led Alexander Marshack to conclude that these referred to a calendrical and notation system. Leroi-Gourhan describes the objects of religious significance as statuettes and decorated slabs. Statuettes of animals are quite rare in the Franco-Cantabrian area but are more common in Upper Paleolithic sites to the west. The most numerous of statuettes in the Franco-Cantrabrian area as well as throughout Eurasia are the Ice Age Venuses – such as the Venus of Willendorf from Austria. They were made between 14000 and 29000 yrs bp but most may have been made between 23000 and 25000 yrs bp. The large buttocks and protruding breasts of the figures suggest the acknowledgement of the mysteries of female fertility.

The term “parietal art” refers to the Upper Paleolithic cave paintings which are plentiful, well preserved, and well drawn, are mostly drawings of animals, and include animal-human hybrids. There are hundreds of these caves in Europe and likely more to be discovered. In many of these caves there are drawings of later times superimposed on those of earlier times and since these “traditions” represent thousands of years some have suggested changes in styles to be representative of different time periods. Leroi-Gourhan classed these into time periods as: Style I Primitive (32000 bp to 27000 bp) – naturalistic renderings of animals, female genitalia, and lines and dots; Style II Primitive – drawings appear in rock shelters and these drawings achieve their maximum geographic distribution; Style III Artchaic (20000-15000 bp) – polychrome becomes more common and improvements in painting and sculpting technique are seen. Rectangular and bracket-shaped signs appear; Style IV Classic (15000 -11000 bp) – shading, texture, and line work lead to the technological and aesthetic height of this form of art among these peoples. There are other classification schemes and much uncertainty as exact dating of these artistic layers is not always reliable. The artists definitely utilized the natural relief of the rock walls to enhance drawings (as can well be seen in the recent Werner Herzog documentary – Cave of Forgotten Dreams – about the Chavez cave discovered in 1994).
The paints were mineral-based which led to their survivability into the present day. The most common subjects of the paintings are large mammalian game animals such as horse, bison, auroch, mammoth, ibex (wild goat), and deer. Less common are reindeer, wooly rhinoceros, bear, lion, antelope, and musk ox. Other subjects are patterns and symbols such as meander patterns (W and M), lines, grids, ovals, parallel lines and dots. Animals were later superimposed on other animals in rather artistic ways. Some original drawings were re-engraved or re-painted. This suggests that the drawings retained their ritual value and so were restored. Less common subjects are fish and birds, less common animals such as boar, fox, wolf, and ferret, hybrid animals where a head of one animal is paired with body of another, human –animal hybrids (such as the famed Sorcerer at Les Troise Freres), and strictly human depictions which are rare. There are some profiles of humans and engraved depictions of human vulvas. Images of human hands (in red and black) also appear though infrequently – but sometimes in dense clusters which suggest some sort of ritual function. Deformed hands, or hands with missing fingers, are sometimes depicted. Rarer still are story panels. Story panels are more common in the rock art of the San people of South Africa and the Pueblo of the North American southwest. Depictions of plants and insects are very rare though Marshack sees them as representative of a seasonal calendar system and possibly more widespread than previously thought. Certainly the paintings may well have been much more common than we see today as they are so old that they are only preserved in the depths of the caves. Paintings were likely present in cave openings and more exposed places as well. Many of the preserved paintings are in cave chambers that are quite difficult to reach – some requiring significant climbing and/or crawling. This suggests to some researchers that different chambers served different cult functions – where the less accessible chambers were used by a minority of humans. The proximity to underground springs and ponds may have been significant as well. These sacred waters (according to Bahn 1978) may have been associated with rebirth and the underworld.

In terms of interpretation of this art and religion there are four main ideas and these overlap quite a bit: 1) totemism, 2) rites of passage, 3) hunting magic, and 4) cave art shamanism. The totemism interpretation stems from the work of Emily Durkheim who compared Upper Paleolithic peoples to the native Australians. These aborigines regarded the totem plants and animals as representations of sacred beings related to their clans and social groups. He concluded that this was the worship of the clan itself, and that all religion is the worship of society. Rites of passage refer to the usual rituals of coming of age, marriage, and death as the most important transitions in the life of a human. Here one crosses a boundary between one ‘status’ and another. The notion of hunting magic was derived mainly from the work of James Frazer regarding sympathetic magic. Frazer made a distinction between magic and religion. Magic, he said was manipulating the material world through the supernatural while religion is propitiating the power of the supernatural. Frazer felt that religion developed after magic as a response to the difficulty of magic. Frazer’s magic is based on two principles: homeopathy- or like produces like, and contagion – where things that are connected in some way can influence one another. So here the drawings of game animals are seen as a form of imitative magic. Pictures of animal predators such as bears and lions – which are rivals – can be seen as a form of destructive magic. Various stab-marked and wounded predator and prey animals support these ideas. Body positions of several drawings suggest dead animals and perhaps the study of the appearance of dead animals in order to be able to depict them for magical purposes. Some have noted that the absence of fish and waterfowl that were thought to be abundant and used as a main food source suggests that hunting magic is not the main focus of the drawings – although others have distinguished between big game hunting requiring skill and less skilled harvesting of abundant fish and fowl. Magic may have been aimed at increasing availability of game. Depictions of animals giving birth support this hypothesis. Cave art as part of shamanic tradition does not contradict Frazer’s notions. The animal-human hybrids here can be seen as the shaman in communication and cohabitation in body with the creation form or universal form of the animal species itself. The ideas of Andreas Lommel through his 1967 book - Shamanism: The Beginnings of Art - are here examined. Lommel mentions four motifs originating in shamanism: 1) man-animal representations, 2) hybrid creatures, 3) scenes depicted men and animals or animals fighting, and 4) drawings in X-ray style. Examples of man-animal and hybrids are the Sorcerer at Les Trois Freres,the “chamois man” and the bird-headed man being charged by a wounded bull in the cave at Lascaux. Interestingly, there is a report by an amateur archaeologist describing an unreported site with many drawn figures of bird-headed and fish-headed men. These man-animal figures and animal hybrids likely represent shamans in trance according to Lommel which is quite reasonable when one looks at the known history of Siberian and Native American shamanism which almost certainly stretches back to the Upper Paleolithic. Man-animal combat scenes may represent psychic battles between shamans and spirits or they may be taken at face value as a history of an event. The X-ray drawings may represent as well the shamanic vision powers to see within and to penetrate to the inner or bone level – or the vital level. These may possibly be related to motifs of counting the bones in order to reconfigure the slain prey (as well as the initiated shaman) and taking care not to break bones. Perhaps, as Eliade conjectures, Upper Paleolithic man was dominated with the mystical relations between man and animal – and as Leroi-Gourhan contends – with the mysteries of reproduction and especially the woman’s role.

The author gives a survey of more contemporary interpretations of Upper Paleolithic art and religion – mainly the work of Andre Leroi-Gourhan and Alexander Marshack but also Anne Sieveking, Clive Gamble, and Michael Jochim. Leroi-Gourhan surmised that the deep cave chambers were sanctuaries. He defined seven types of zones in the caves. He thinks the most important central positions of cave art were occupied by the most important animals: bison, wild oxen, aurochs, and horses. Smaller prey like deer and ibex – but also mammoth – occupy a less important position, and prey animals like bear, lion, and rhino occupy a different position. He interpreted the signs near the animals as representative of human genitalia and so assigned bison and aurochs to female genitalia and horses, ibexes, and mammoths to male genitalia. He saw these representations as a sort of syntax though I don’t quite get it. These ideas are controversial and do not seem likely or at least of utmost importance to me. The work of Marshack also challenged past interpretations in that he postulated that various markings especially on bone and antler mobiliary art (which would be assumed to be always near a mobile people) represented “time-factoring” by these ancient peoples. These markings had previously been assumed to be decoration but Marshack thought they had to do with marking the passage of time. He tried to find and present evidence that various markings were made at different times, possibly by different people and different tools so that they represented tallies of the passage of time. These decorative markings occur in widespread areas and time periods of the Upper Paleolithic so could possibly have a been a widespread “language” of sorts for reckoning time. Particularly, he noted markings of 29 to 31 likely to represent moon phases. Lunar periods could be used to count to the changes of seasons. He interpreted migratory animals and fish as occurring with images of plants (though the images are apparently hard to interpret as plants) as time-season reckoning for availability of these animals and plants. Plants and hook-jawed salmon in spawn would represent spring and fighting stags would represent autumn. The appearance of a crescent horn with 13 marks has rather obvious lunar phase symbolism. Apparently though much of Marshack’s examples are way less than obvious and his interpretations have been criticized. Anne Sieveking analyzed animal migration patterns and human settlement patterns in the Pyrenees region in order to define likely homogenous social groups. These groups likely had winter and summer residences based on food availability, movement of reindeer herds, and salmon spawning in spring. She also thought that since similar mobiliary art styles were widespread that the social systems were also related and widespread. Clive Gamble suggested that the need for collaboration in hunting big game like reindeer was closely related to the development of art – that maybe the art was a strategy for maximizing hunting success. This required larger human groups that may have been related through wider kinship ties. This strategy and technique of tracking and hunting may have had initiatory components as the young were introduced to the reindeer hunting groups. Michael Jochim compared the population dynamics required of reindeer hunters (small) and salmon gatherers (large). Both of these game could be gotten in large quantities but only in part of the year. Both could be stored and indeed the cold winters of the Upper Paleolithic in this area may have allowed meat and fish to be stored through the winter. The difference is that salmon are much more predictable than reindeer and so lead to a settled pattern for part of the year. The settled pattern would also lead to a territorial exclusiveness around certain rivers. Reindeer hunting required mobility and perhaps the sharing of regional information by different hunting groups in order to maximize success. This sharing of information may have led to extended social groups, social affiliations, and marriage ties between groups.

The next section analyzes recent and modern hunter-gatherer societies for comparison. He lists the following characteristics of these societies: 1) a simple technology – tools, skills, and social organization, 2) a subsistence system capable of producing only relatively low levels of food energy, 3) little emphasis on accumulation – possessions are a hindrance to mobile people, 4) a low population density – as resources dictate, 5) a dependence on spatially dispersed wild foods with seasonally fluctuating availability. 6) a population size determined by the amount of collectible wild food during the season of minimum availability, 7)  band organization, 8) reliance on kinship as most important social bond, 9) economic distribution and exchange based on reciprocity – gifting to balance needs and surpluses among groups, 10) individual and collective ownership – individual in terms of tools and weapons but collective in terms of resources and distribution of resources, 11) absence of full-time specializations, 12) absence of statuses and roles (beyond those of age and sex), 13) feuding, but no true warfare.

Different styles of hunter-gatherers have been recognized such as: 1) pedestrian hunter-gatherers – ie. the !Kung San of South Africa; 2) Fishing, with supplementary hunting and gathering – ie. the Tlingit of the Pacific Northwest – who were much more settled and socially stratified than other h & g groups; 3) equestrian hunter-gatherers – ie. the Cheyenne of the plains of Western North America – interestingly among them the seasonal festivals were arranged around the times when the regional groups converged for bison hunting.

Delayed-return subsistence systems probably represent an evolved (or new) form over immediate-return subsistence systems since they support surpluses and temporary settlement. This also likely aids the development of more complex social systems. One important difference between the Upper Paleolithic societies of southwestern Europe and those of both today’s pan-arctic regions and modern hunter-gatherers in other areas – is that the availability of food resources is thought to have been significantly greater in the Upper Paleolithic of that region giving more possibility of more settlement time and larger populations than we see in h & g groups today. The environments were different as well – tundra and grassland in a temperate to subtropical region which we don’t see today.  The Saami, or Lapps of northern Finland and Scandinavia may be the best analogy for Upper Paleolithic peoples as they still follow and keep reindeer herds. Their food gathering is seasonal-cyclic with fishing and sea mammals in spring-summer, trapping and reindeer hunting in fall, and “broad-spectrum subsistence” in winter. Socially, they are arranged in bands with a council that heads a group of bands. The confederation of groups also provides for help to the sick and poor and they share hunting and fishing resources such as weirs. Surpluses among the Tlingit were distributed as part of a ceremonial gift-giving reciprocity and this may have been a model in the past as well, especially at convergence times among different groups.

Analogies of the religious organization of modern hunter-gatherers reveal that they do not tend to have religious specialists but that the ability to enter altered states of consciousness is highly-prized. Hunting and the distribution of meat are filled with procedure and prohibition – essentially religious taboo. He notes that anthropologists tend to divide rituals into two types: rites of passage and rites of intensification. Rites of intensification may be more related to seasonal rites in order to re-orient the group focus to the new activities of the new season. Rites of passage are mainly concerned with the change from childhood to adulthood. The scale and elaboration of funerary rites among hunter-gatherers is determined “by the degree of their sedentism, the nature of their seasonal schedule, and whether or not they practice a delayed-return form of subsistence.” Typically, the Middle Paleolithic Neanderthal burials are interpreted as a new interest in an afterlife and the Upper Paleolithic burials due to increased population but they may be related to increased sedentism as well. 

Interestingly the caves where parietal art are found are not where people lived so there was a separation of sorts where these areas were used for special purposes but not for living quarters. Since the more difficult to reach areas of caves were decorated more elaborately and in more detail it has been assumed that these areas played a more intense ritual role. The idea that ceremonial centers built up around seasonal times when different groups could converge (like the Cheyenne did) seems a reasonable assumption in a society relying on similar resources. The author thinks the site of Altamira may have been such a site being close to variable resources as well as the coast. Seasonal pilgrimages may have included visits to the abundant parietal art caves in the region.

There is a short section speculating on ideas of binary thought among Upper Paleolithic peoples. This includes an analysis of the drawing of codes, pairs of things, and hands. Hands were seen to be red or black (two opposing colors: red for life, power, sex and black for death, morning, and decomposition) left or right, positive or negative, and whole or with missing digits.

The author takes all the above views and synthesizes them a bit. He considers that the art and religion is related to recognition a sexual dualism of sorts. He considers Marshack’s account of recognition of the lunar cycle and its relationship with the female menstruation cycle as well as the cycle of human birth, growth, and death (in terms of waxing and waning). Based on this he suggests that:

“... the Upper Paleolithic worldview probably represented a fusion of understanding of two separate, empirically knowable phenomena of the natural world: the passage of time and the nature of human – especially female – sexuality. Both of these natural phenomena are characterized by dramatic surficial or formal changes that can be observed and predicted with great ease and precision by virtually anyone.”

He says the predictability of these things molded how early man contemplated nature. The experience of cycles allows greater predictability and some idea of certainty. Predictability in nature allows practical advantages in finding food.

Regarding the Venus figures some have suggested that they were not goddesses but representatives of woman with rare medical conditions who were venerated as magical because of it. I find this unlikely due to their widespread nature in space and time. It seems more likely that they were fertility and child-birth aids. Some have given the icons not sacred functions but secular and psychological functions. Most of the Venus figures were found in domestic settings so this supports that they were perhaps not exclusively sacred.

Here is a final quote at the end of the book that I found interesting:

   “Human life is fragile and transitory and its essential fact – the inevitability of death – can be countered only by birth, by more life. Human existence is both obvious and mysterious: we know it must end in death yet it is filled with signs and portents suggesting otherwise. Fragility and mystery – fear and hope – provoke the yearnings for fertility and immortality in humankind. To find that we share these yearnings even with peoples of as remote an age as the late Pleistocene is to recognize our kinship with all humanity.”

Worthwhile read indeed.

===================

#64457 From: Hari Malla <harimalla@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:34 am
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
harimalla...
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Dear Harsha Indrasenji,
Thank you for the careful analysis of the coordinated ayanamsha issue. I feel the absolute sidereal ayanamsha cannot be entertained for long. The reason is there is no direct effect of the individual stars upon us whatsoever. They only act as the fixed references for the sun,  moon and the other planets including Rahu and Ketu. This is also clarified by the fact that the same zodiac becomes all the 12 houses for people born with the different lagans or rashi kundali. Thus the stars themselves have no particular effect upon us. Thus to attribute any special quality to a certain group of stars independantly for all the time is unthinkable. They are only reflecting the effects of the sun, the moon or the axial relationship with the earth for the manawantar or the sidereal period of 2150 years,.  This period is the  period over which a certain star group can have the so called sidereal quality, which though is actually the reflected qualities from the sun, moon and the earth axis relationship.

<2)      Please define the coordinated ayanamsha as a formula. Is it like: Coordinated ayanamsha = Tropical Aries Zero - Coordinated Aries zero>

I think if the present ayansmha is taken psoitve as (+24) then  the coordinated reformed ayanamsha becomes minus six (-6) at the present.  The ayanamsha then varies from - -6 to +15 degrees, this time of reform. When the reform occurrs in future, in the beginning it is -15, then in about 1000 years, it comes to zero and then it becomes positive and reaches upto + 15 in about another 1000 years. Then the zero point is shifted by 30 dgrees when the reformed ayanamsha suddenly changes to -15 etc.
Please improve the ssytem, mathematically after understnding what I am trying to say. Thanks and
Regards,
Hari Malla

--- On Thu, 4/12/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@...> wrote:

From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@...>
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
To: "Hari Malla" <harimalla@...>
Date: Thursday, April 12, 2012, 6:07 AM

Dear Mr. Hari Malla,

 

1)      Do you recommend the sidereal astrologers to use coordinated zodiac in phalit work? I think sidereal astrologers should continue to use sidereal zodiac for phalit work.

2)      Please define the coordinated ayanamsha as a formula.

 

Is it like

 

Coordinated ayanamsha = Tropical Aries Zero - Coordinated Aries zero

 

If so the coordinated ayanamsha will fluctuate between +15 to -15.

 With regards Harsha Indrasena

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 8:37 AM, Hari Malla <harimalla@...> wrote:
Dear Harsha Indrasenji,
Thank you for your reply, I think you are quite clear in your opinion and very careful too.
The coordinated ayanamsha is for those who believe in astrology with the effects of the other five planets.. It is just a compromise with the astrologers who insists upon the reality of the effects of these planets, since this idea has been used for thousands of year, although with a misudnerstanding.  Just not to go against this tradition, I do not mind the use of ayanamsha in sidereal predictive calculations.
The coordinated system is the periodic shift of the zero point of ayanamsha so that the coordination of the sidereal and tropicial  relationship is never lost. Talking in terms of justification of the coordination which is different from the use of ayanmsha,i would like to say the following.
1. Ayanamsha is minor adjustment within one particular age where as coordination is major adjustment over the ages when the zero point of ayanmsha is shifted by 30 degreees at a time. Ayanamsha is thus limited to plus and minus 15 degrees at  each age.
1. Lagan kundali is based on daily rotational movement of the earth which centers upon the pole point, Thus it is tropical based. The chandra rashi kundali is based upon the monthly revolutonary motion of the moon around the earth.
2. These two motions must be coordinated with respect to each other so the  two view points can salvage the truth from both these two view points. These two view points are connected to our five senses( lagan kundali) and the intellect or mind (chandra rashi kundali). Since the five senses and the mind is both within the same person, they must as a first necessity be coordinated or harmonised so that the person is a integreted or a sane person. Please know that the earth takes these two motions as the daily rotation and the monthly wobble too. I hope you know about the monthly motion of the earth produced by the gravitational influences of the mooon. The moon and the earth core are said to go around the common earth-moon barycenter every month. The  earth axis and the monthly earth wobble both being executed by the same earth possess, has as a necessity, a natural coordination, without doubt.
3. Here we have to have a different definition of the sidereal coordinate.The sidereal cordinates is or should be just the mean position of the lunar fluctuation of one month due to adhimas ineah age. This midpoint of monthly motion of the full moon over the stars is also well depicted by the nomenclature system of the lunar months and the related nakshyatras. The full moon of Falgun fluctuates over the two nakshyatras of purva falguni and uttara falguni nakshyatras. Thus Meen sankranti is 180 degrees to the boundary beween these two nakshytras aproximately. Mesh sankranti is 180 degrees to the mid point of chitra nakshyatras, Chaitra full moon flucutating between two padas each of Hasta and Swati with Chitra nakshtyras at its midddle.. Thus we can define the mesh sankranti as the mid point of the Chaitra purnima or the equinoctical purnima fluctuation zone.
Here we are giving more importance to the lunar month rather than the solar sankrantis. The reason is lunar months are natural months but the sankrantis like mesh sankranti  are arbitrary 30 degres demarcation made by Man. If we understand this fact then we should not have the problem of shifting the zero point of ayansmha as the sankrantis whenever we shift the full moon zones and keeping the zero point as the mean postion of the fluctuation zone of he full moon.
Of coure, in the above analysis we are taking for granted that the stars by themselves have no effect upon us ( for our precidictive purpose) except as fixed incdicators or reference points in space for teh sun adn the moon..
 I guess, I have given a different out look than genearally accepted by the astrologers. they think the strs are primary effectors which is not acutally true. these stars are efeatgors only as the fixed references of the effects of the sun and the moon. Plese ask where i ahvenotbeen clear. Thank you,
Hari malla
 
 
 
 
--- On Tue, 4/10/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@...> wrote:

From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@...>
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
To: "Hari Malla" <harimalla@...>
Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 2:45 PM


Dear Mr. Hari Malla,

 

He may use the ayanamsha of his choice, i.e. Yukteshwar. The Yukteshwar ayanamsha on 1st Jan 1900 is 21° 04' 56".

 

If he wants the Coordinated longitudes of Sun, Moon and Stars for the purpose of calendar reform he can use the following formula:

Coordinated longitude = (Tropical longitude – Yukteshwar Ayanamsha) + 30°

 

If he calculates sidereal longitudes directly he can use the following formula:

Coordinated longitude = Sidereal longitude + 30°

 

Since Coordinated calendar reform is interested only in festivals, there is no need of defining a coordinated ayanamsha. Apart from sun, moon and stars I do not think coordinated system is interested in other five planets.

 

I went through the files section again in Parvasudhar group, but could not find much weight given to Ayanamsha. Exact ayanamsha is not necessary in Moon based coordinated calendar since shift of zodiac is done every 2160 years and there is a wide fluctuation zone to the Moon. In that sense Coordinated calendar seems to be simpler and superior to sidereal calendar.

 

My understanding is that Coordinated system is not for predictive astrology; it has been proposed to correct timing of religious festivals. This differs vastly from the other two systems proposed, i.e. Tropical and Sidereal calendar. It looks like to me that the latter two systems are mainly interested in maintaining astrology rather than religion. I make this conclusion based on what you have said about astrology from the religious point of view. There is no need to sacrifice religion to the stars by maintain sidereal zodiac in festival calendar. But sidereal zodiac still has its place in predictive astrology, which I also follow.

 

I may be wrong. Please give your comments so that I could understand coordinated system better. No need to take this as a conclusion but rather the beginning of a discussion.

 With regards Harsha Indrasena

On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 8:43 AM, Hari Malla <harimalla@...> wrote:
Dear Harsha indrasenji,
Thank you indeed for working out the formula for the coordinated, tropical and sidereal coordinates.
Kindly also give the value of your coordinated Dularaka ayanamsha to  Rohiniji of 01-01-1900, as he desires!  Thank you for the cooperation.

Hari Malla.
--- On Tue, 4/10/12, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@...> wrote:

From: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@...>
Subject: Fw: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
To: JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 2:23 AM


 
Hari_ji,

I am still waiting for the ayanamsha value of 01-01-1900!

Recent History seems to be repeating itself... ;-)

Once again...!

Regards,

RR_,

--- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, "hari" <harimalla@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Raj Raoji and Rohiniji,
> If it interests you to use coordinated longitude, Harsh Indrasenji has
> supplied the formula for the reepctive coordinates. I feel he is quick in mathemtics. No?
> regards,
> Hari Malla
>
>
>
> --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Hari Malla <harimalla@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Mon, 4/9/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@>
> > Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
> > To: "Hari Malla" <harimalla@>
> > Date: Monday, April 9, 2012, 5:23 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Mr. Hari Malla,
> >  
> > Thank you.
> >  
> > <I am happy to hear that the referring to the coordinated Dularaka ayanamsha VE is at 5°23'37" (coordinated) Aries. I wonder what will be the prediction on this basis of ayanamsha, other things remaining the same.>
> >  
> > C- Coordinated longitude
> > S- Sidereal longitude
> > T- Tropical longitude
> > Ay â€" Ayanamsha (You may use whatever ayanamsha of your choice)
> >  
> > C = S + 30°
> > S = T â€" Ay
> > Therefore
> > C = (T â€" Ay) + 30°
> >  
> > There will be little effect on predictions based on transits, directions and inter-planetary aspects that are used in Western astrology.
> >  
> > Sidereal astrologers can convert coordinated longitudes to Sidereal longitudes simply by subtracting one sign from coordinated longitudes (S = C - 30°) and use accordingly.
> >  
> > <I feel the other five planets apart from the sun, the moon and Rahu ketu are misrepresented.>
> >  
> > Whatever it is astrology is not the path to Nirvana. I think the teaching is similar in Hinduism. Therefore it is better not believe in astrology.
> >  With regards Harsha Indrasena
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 7:36 PM, Hari Malla <harimalla@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Harsha Indrasenji,
> > Thank you indeed for your carefully thought out reply.
> > 1.Transferring the geocentric sidereal parameter to the hlocenteric one, we add the speed of the sun to the speed of the nakshyatras. This I feel is Yoga and is the ultimate goal of practising astroloogy is to achieve this too, in the mind. I have read in Bhratiya Jyotish that Parashar too has expressd this opinion that the astrologers shoulod try to go to Brahmahlok in the end. In SS, we read that at the end after educating Maya danava on astronomy, Suryamsha Purush ultimately goes to the orb of the sun, which in my view means the transfer of the geocentric center to the heliocentric one..
> > 2. May I please know the scientific explanation attributed to the proper motion of the stars as you have mentioned.. Is it the rotation of the galaxy?
> >  
> > 3 Thank you for acceptig my defintion of Kalpa. This definiton is concluded from the mention in the Bhagvatam of Dhruva (pole point) having two sons- Vatsar ( the year, orbit of the earth) and Kalpa (the great year, precession of the equinoxes).
> >  
> > 4. I am happy to hear that the referring to the coordinated Dularaka ayanamsha VE is at 5°23'37" (coordinated) Aries. I wonder what will be the predicton on this basis of ayanamsha, other things remaining the same.
> > Although I do not believe prediction can predict 100 percent, but I do not rule out the possiblity of prediction success of about 60 percent. I feel the other five planets apart from the sun, the moon and Rahu ketu are misrepresented.
> > Thank you again, for your support as well as educating me in certain aspects of astronomy. .
> > Hari Malla
> >
> >  
> >  
> > --- On Thu, 4/5/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@>
> > Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
> > To: "Hari Malla" <harimalla@>
> > Date: Thursday, April 5, 2012, 7:18 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Mr. Hari Malla,
> >  
> > 1) <I request you to confirm that the sidereal zodiac though composed of 12 equal parts in empty space is centered at the sun.>
> >  
> > Zodiac is situated round the ecliptic, extending 8-9° north or south of the ecliptic, in the celestial sphere. This means zodiac is situated in infinity. Therefore the distance between the Sun and the Earth is negligible when compared with the distance to the Zodiac.
> >  
> > Therefore we can use the same zodiac in both heliocentric and geocentric versions. In heliocentric version, the zodiac is centered at Sun. In geocentric version, the zodiac is centered at Earth. But both versions refer to one and the same zodiac. Therefore what you say is correct.
> >  
> > 2) <I am sure you will agree that the shift of stars in one Kalpa of 25,800 years is quite negligible.>
> >  
> > No.
> >  
> > Days, months, years and several billion years in my mail refer to changing signs of heavenly bodies (both planets and stars).
> >  
> > We cannot ignore the proper motion of planets in one Kalpa for the stars that are closer to us.
> >  
> > Proper motion was suspected by early astronomers (according to Macrobius, AD 400) but proof was provided in 1718 by Edmund Halley, who noticed that Sirius, Arcturus and Aldebaran were over half a degree away from the positions charted by the ancient Greek astronomer Hipparchus roughly 1850 years earlier.[23]
> >  
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_motion
> >  
> > Proper motion of stars is important when one defines the zodiac. Therefore if we always fix Shaula at 0deg Sag or Aldebaren at 15deg Taurus, even the sidereal zodiac will keep moving over years.
> >  
> > 3) <By the way do you agree with the 25,800 years figure for one Kalpa or cycle of precession?>
> >  
> > That depends on how we define Kalpa. This is your definition and it is acceptable to me.
> >  
> > 4) I would also request you to kindly send your present value of Dulakara ayanamsha.
> >  
> > 24°36'23"
> >  
> > If we shift the zero point of ayanamsha by 30 degrees for the sake of coordination, what will be the new reformed value of Dulakara ayanamsha?
> >  
> > VE is at 5°23'37" (coordinated) Aries.
> >  
> > Thank you.
> > Harsha Indrasena
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 8:06 AM, Hari Malla <harimalla@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Harsha Indrasenji,
> >
> > Thank you for your reply. I am impressed by your thorough knowledge of astronomy.
> > I liked your following expresion too..
> >
> > <Sidereal zodiac is fixed. Its background is empty. It is just 12 equal parts in sky. It is not composed of stars. Planets move rapidly over days, months and years, and stars move very very slowly over millions and billions of years across it.>
> > I request you to confirm that siereal zodiacs though composed of 12 equal parts in empty space is centered at the sun. I would like to add, 'when we consider the sun at the center of the circle of zodiac stars, it is the highest experience man can have. He bcomes a Buddha! This is what SS says. This is what our panchangas says, when we add the speed of nakshytras( meaning moon) to the speed of the sun( meaning the earth inits orbit), then we get Yoga. This Yoga is Buddhahood the reltionship of the sun to the stars, in its pratically static postion.
> > I say 'practically' because, if negligibly moving in one hundered life times or generation  for we living creatures,  is surely practicaly fixed. One hundered lifetime is say about 10,000 years. And a peiod of 10,000 years inhistory is already prehistoric by human standards and its civilisation. Stars moving over millions and billions of years is not connected with our eye vision and our civilisatio, since we live only for 100 years and  history of our civilisation  is not more than 5,000 to 10 000 years. Our human experience of static nature is quite limited and also eternity. Our life and death is surely trancscended in one life time by a Budha. and if not in one lifetime then surely in a hundered lifetimes by other humans. So much for human philosophy and end of rebirths of one person.
> > Now coming to our coordinative system, we shift one rashi sankranti of 30 degrees, for coordinating the sidereal and the tropical zodiacs about every 2,150 years. This is one manawantar of 12 shifts in one Kalpa of 25,800 years, in my view. I am sure you wil agree that the shift of stars in one Kalpa of 25,800 years is quite negligible. By the way do you agree with the 25,800 years figure for one Kalpa or cycle of precession?
> > .I would also rquest you to kinldy send your present value of Dularka ayanamsha. If we shift the zero point of aynamsha by 30 degrees for the sake of coordination, what will be the new reformed value of Dularka ayanmsha?
> >  
> > Thank you for our cooperation?
> >  
> > Hari Malla
> >
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > --- On Tue, 4/3/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@>
> > Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
> > To: JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 3:20 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Mr. Hari Malla,
> >  
> > I very well agree with your philosophical views.
> >  
> > <Please note that galactic center is in no way dealt with, in our scriptures and it is meaningless to talk about it in the ancient context. This is complete misconeption to jump to conclusions and a sheer waste of time.>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sidereal Galactic center has been defined by approximating known sidereal zodiac with the event that occurred in July 1998. Without knowing approximate location of sidereal zodiac one cannot give longitudes to this point. I consider this as a rough approximation rather than the eternal truth.
> >  
> >
> >
> > <This modern concept of science has zero effect in our practical lives.>
> >
> >
> > Modern astronomy will never ever be able to find out the beginning of sidereal Aries. We must try to find out true sidereal zodiac by scrutinizing ancient wisdom. That is why astrology is a divine science.
> >  
> >
> >
> > <Thus my request to drop this associaton with muladhara chakra which is misleading. It is as misleading as to say that one manwantar is equal to 40 years.>
> >
> >
> > It is quite true that Mula or Shaula star is closer to a zero than Spica or Chitra star. But Shaula is not a good reference point because this star is located far beyond the ecliptic.  None of the planets touches this star during their course. Therefore Chitra is a better reference point than Mula star.
> >  
> >
> >
> > Other thing is that we cannot fix the longitudes of stars. Stars do move and change positions over time. We must fit the stars into nakshatras and rashis, in the same way that we do with planets, rather than fitting the nakshatras and rashis to stars.
> >  
> >
> >
> > Sidereal zodiac is fixed. Its background is empty. It is just 12 equal parts in sky. It is not composed of stars. Planets move rapidly over days, months and years, and stars move very very slowly over millions and billions of years across it.
> >                                    
> >
> >
> > With regards Harsha Indrasena
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 9:35 AM, hari <harimalla@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear all,
> > A friendly tip here. Please note that galactic center is in no way dealt with, in our scriptures and it is meaningless to talk about it in the ancient context. This is complete misconeption to jump to conclusions and a sheer waste of time.
> > This modern concept of science has zero effect in our practical lives.
> > Thus my request to drop this associaton with muladhara chakra which is misleading. It is as misleading as to say that one manwantar is equal to 40 years.
> > Also 'muladhar chakra' in my view is related to the center of the earth or earth core.
> > thank you.
> > Hari Malla
> >
> >
> > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, "sreesog" <sreesog@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Narasimha ji,
> > > I have a question/dobt. What would be the longitude of Galaxy Center
> > > when Mula star is at 0Sg0? In this case will Galaxy Center be at the
> > > middle of Mula Nakshatra or somewhere else?
> > > Also can you please include the relative longitudes of all important
> > > stars (Yoga taras) in JHora to help such researches? That could be much
> > > helpful - not only in such studies but also asserting the Vedic and
> > > Puranic astronomic statements, in some cases.
> > > Love and regards,
> > > Sreenadh
> > >
> >
> >
> > > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, "sreesog" <sreesog@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Narasimha ji, Sunil ji and All,
> > > > //> Please convey my regards to your learned friend. His words are
> > > > > meaningful.//
> > > > Yes, and definitely from those words itself it is well evidant that
> > > > those words are NOT of Chandrahari ji.
> > > > //> Galactic Center at 240 deg will make ayanamsa deviate many degrees
> > > > from
> > > > > Lahiri. BTW, this option is already supported in JHora 7.51!//
> > > > Yes, True.
> > > > //> Apart from Galactic center at 0Sg0, JHora 7.51 also includes a
> > > fixed
> > > > > star based implementation of Chandra Hari ayanamsa, where Lambda
> > > > Scorpii
> > > > > star (Shaula) is always placed at 0Sg0. Please note that Lambda
> > > > Scorpii
> > > > > star used by Chandra Hari is several degrees away from the Galactic
> > > > > Center!//
> > > > Yes, True.
> > > > //> Philosophically speaking, I too am not really convinced that 180
> > > deg
> > > > > point must be the anchor for defining ayanamsa.//
> > > > Good realization!
> > > > //> (1) Focus on Prajapati, the Creator. For example, Aldebaran (Alpha
> > > > > Tauri) can be placed at the center of Taurus in Rohini (the star
> > > owned
> > > > > by Prajapati). JHora already offers this option. The other option
> > > not
> > > > > supported by JHora yet is to place Aldebaran at the center of Rohini
> > > > > itself.
> > > > > (2) Apart from Prajapati's star, it would make sense for the
> > > > *Mooladhara
> > > > > chakra* of Kaala Purusha to be the anchor.//
> > > > I appreciate this approach. Possibly Rohini (Aldebaran) star as
> > > the
> > > > star of Brahma and Rohini Nakshatra as the Birth star of Brahma points
> > > > to the position of Aldebaran at the middle of Rohini Nakshatra itself
> > > > (and not to Aldebaran at the middle of Taurus). I have a question -
> > > Is
> > > > it not giving importance to the Nakshatra and Star of Creation/Brahma
> > > > and placing it at the middle of Rohini Nakshatra, almost exactly same
> > > as
> > > > Chandrahari's Ayanamsa? (Even though the focus of opinion and
> > > arguments
> > > > expressed may differ, the Ayanamsa value will remains almost the same
> > > in
> > > > both these cases I think. Please clarify)
> > > > //> Just because the Moola star is named "Moola", some people
> > > associate
> > > > it
> > > > > with Mooladhara chakra. That is questionable. //
> > > > True. The Vedic name for Mula is "Mula Barhis" which rather means
> > > > "the one which spins and expands, or the root of everything (present
> > > in
> > > > the universe?)". Or in other words possibly Mula Nakshatra got its
> > > name
> > > > more because of its association with Galactic Center and not because
> > > of
> > > > its association with Mula star. Even when the position of Mula star
> > > at
> > > > 0Sg0 becomes questionable the connection of Mula Nakshatra with
> > > Galactic
> > > > Center cannot be questioned. The name Mula is more connected with
> > > with
> > > > Galactic Center (of Milky way galaxy) and not to the Muladhara Chakra
> > > > concept etc which are possibly of later day origin.
> > > > Another point is that, even though philosophical perspective, and
> > > also
> > > > the available Mesopotamian horoscopes supports a Galectic Center
> > > > Ayanamsa; the results predicated by Indian astrology classics match
> > > with
> > > > the given horoscope, only when the foundations proposed by Indian
> > > > siddhantic texts and Ayanamsa based on the same are followed. (For me
> > > > Surya Siddhantic Chandrahari Ayanamsa works well in this regard; even
> > > > though I don't force the argument that others should follow the same.
> > > > When it comes to prediction, everyone should follow what works for
> > > them
> > > > best - because astrology is a practical branch of knowledge). From a
> > > > philosophical point of view I appreciate Galaxy Centric Ayanamsa but
> > > it
> > > > do not work for me while dealing with Indian astrology (possibly
> > > because
> > > > through centuries the results are modified and made in tune with Surya
> > > > Siddhantic Ayanamsa etc by the indian practitioners of astrology), but
> > > > the Indian Ayanamsas (whether it be Chandrahari, True Chitrapaksha or
> > > > whatever nearby) works better for Indian astrology. If I am to read
> > > the
> > > > chart using Mesopotamian astrology principles and method, I would
> > > prefer
> > > > to use Galaxy Centric Ayanamsa, but not while dealing with Indian
> > > > astrology.
> > > > Love and regards,
> > > > Sreenadh
> > > >
> > > > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Namaste Sunil ji,
> > > > >
> > > > > Please convey my regards to your learned friend. His words are
> > > > > meaningful.
> > > > >
> > > > > Galactic Center at 240 deg will make ayanamsa deviate many degrees
> > > > from
> > > > > Lahiri. BTW, this option is already supported in JHora 7.51!
> > > > >
> > > > > Apart from Galactic center at 0Sg0, JHora 7.51 also includes a fixed
> > > > > star based implementation of Chandra Hari ayanamsa, where Lambda
> > > > Scorpii
> > > > > star (Shaula) is always placed at 0Sg0. Please note that Lambda
> > > > Scorpii
> > > > > star used by Chandra Hari is several degrees away from the Galactic
> > > > > Center!
> > > > >
> > > > > Your friend's suggestion of the intersection of galactic equator and
> > > > > ecliptic is interesting and may be worth investigating.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > Philosophically speaking, I too am not really convinced that 180 deg
> > > > > point must be the anchor for defining ayanamsa.
> > > > >
> > > > > I can think of two logical possibilities:
> > > > >
> > > > > (1) Focus on Prajapati, the Creator. For example, Aldebaran (Alpha
> > > > > Tauri) can be placed at the center of Taurus in Rohini (the star
> > > owned
> > > > > by Prajapati). JHora already offers this option. The other option
> > > not
> > > > > supported by JHora yet is to place Aldebaran at the center of Rohini
> > > > > itself.
> > > > > (2) Apart from Prajapati's star, it would make sense for the
> > > > *Mooladhara
> > > > > chakra* of Kaala Purusha to be the anchor.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > Just because the Moola star is named "Moola", some people associate
> > > it
> > > > > with Mooladhara chakra. That is questionable. If stars are named
> > > based
> > > > > on chakras they represent, show me stars named based on other six
> > > > > chakras (svAdhiShThAna etc)!
> > > > >
> > > > > Moola simply means root and can be the root of anything. For
> > > example,
> > > > > "bAhu-mUla" (root of arm) means armpit. As Sg shows thighs of Kaala
> > > > > Purusha, Moola star (ruled by Nirriti!) at its beginning could show
> > > > the
> > > > > root of thighs, i.e. groins. That is NOT the location of Mooladhara
> > > > > chakra.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > Mooladhara chakra is supposed to be located a little above anus and
> > > a
> > > > > little below the reproductive organ, both shown by Scorpio. After
> > > all,
> > > > > when Parasara defined zodiacal signs, he said Vi, Li, Sc and Sg are
> > > > the
> > > > > hips (kaTi), lower belly/abdomen (basti), privities (guhya) and
> > > thighs
> > > > > (Uru) of Kaala Purusha (respectively). Thus, Mooladhara chakra must
> > > be
> > > > > *well within* Scorpio, perhaps near the middle! Placing at at 0Sg0
> > > > makes
> > > > > no sense.
> > > > >
> > > > > Antares (Alpha Scorpii) is one of the brightest stars in that region
> > > > and
> > > > > one of the very few stars to lie within 5 deg from the ecliptic
> > > plane.
> > > > >
> > > > > One option is to place Antares in the middle of Scorpio (i.e.
> > > 15Sc0).
> > > > > The other (and better) option is to place it at the beginning of
> > > > > Jyeshtha star (i.e. 16Sc40). Please note that Jyeshtha means "the
> > > > > first/main/chief one".
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, Jyeshtha star is ruled by Indra and the deity of Mooladhara
> > > > chakra
> > > > > as per Tantras is also four-armed Indra on a white elephant!! The
> > > > beeja
> > > > > of Indra is laM (laM indrAya namaH) and laM is also the beeja of
> > > > > Mooladhara chakra!
> > > > >
> > > > > Apart from Indra, some texts also associate Ganapati with Mooladhara
> > > > > chakra and note that Ganapati is mentioned in RigVeda as
> > > jyeShTha-rAja
> > > > > (king of Jyeshtha)! Bottomline is that Mooladhara chakra controls
> > > > earth
> > > > > element or solid state of existence and offers stability and
> > > > > groundedness to one's awareness. Ganapati symbolizes that and so
> > > does
> > > > > Indra (indriyas or senses!) riding an elephant (solid/grounded
> > > > state!).
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > I am just thinking loud here, as far as "Jyeshthapaksha" ayanamsa
> > > > based
> > > > > on Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara chakra in Jyeshtha star is concerned.
> > > > >
> > > > > In any case, I am not at all convinced that 0Sg0 shows Mooladhara
> > > > chakra
> > > > > and hence should anchor the zodiac. If one carefully studies rasis
> > > of
> > > > > zodiac, body parts of Kaala Purusha shown by them and the location
> > > of
> > > > > chakras as per Tantras, one will conclude that Mooladhara chakra
> > > must
> > > > > lie *well within* Scorpio and close to its center.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just my 2 cents - take it or leave it!
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Narasimha
> > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,
> > > > > "Do It Yourself" ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:
> > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
> > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org
> > > > > Spirituality: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vedic-wisdom
> > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JyotishWritings
> > > > > Twitter ID: @homam108
> > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> >
> >
> > > > > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Sunil Bhattacharjya
> > > > > sunil_bhattacharjya@ wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Namaste Narasimhaji,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You wrote:
> > > > > > Quote
> > > > > >> not name it "Narasimha ayanamsa". I named it "Jagannatha
> > > ayanamsa".
> > > > > >> It > is available in JHora.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> In standard Lahiri ayanamsa, Chitra (spica) star *fluctuates*
> > > > around
> > > > > >> 180 > deg. In Jagannatha ayanamsa, Chitra is always *fixed* at
> > > > > >> exactly 180 > deg.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Secondly, the 2-dimensional plane onto which heavenly bodies are
> > > >
> > > > > >> projected is a *fluctuating* plane, in Lahiri ayanamsa (and most
> > > > > >> other > ayanamsas). Suppose we make a natal chart in April 1970
> > > and
> > > > a
> > > > > >> transit > chart in October 2011 and correlate planetary
> > > positions.
> > > > > >> The planes on > which planets are projected are totally different
> > > > on
> > > > > >> the two dates! Yet, > we compare the positions!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> In Jagannatha ayanamsa, this plane is fixed and does not change
> > > > from
> > > > > >> one > day to another. Instead of using the fluctuating Sun-earth
> > > > > >> rotation > plane, Jagannatha ayanamsa uses the *mean* Sun-earth
> > > > > >> rotation plane. So > it is fixed and does not fluctuate.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Thus, Jagannatha ayanamsa is just Lahiri ayanamsa with a truly
> > > > fixed
> > > > > >> > zero point and a fixed plane. It is very close to Lahiri
> > > > ayanamsa.
> > > > > > Unquote
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you for your reply. I have a liking for astrology but it may
> > > > not
> > > > > > be the very orthodox style of astrology. I am also not an
> > > unbeliever
> > > > > > in astrology like Kaulji has become with a vengeance. That is why
> > > > the
> > > > > > ayanamsha controversy did not not bug me as much as it has done to
> > > > > > Kaulji.BTW has Kaulji commented on the "Jagannatha ayanamsa"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As regards the "Jagannatha ayanamsa" I was asking a knowledgeable
> > > > > > friend about your efforts on correcting the Lahiri ayanamsha. He
> > > has
> > > > > > the following to say:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Quote
> > > > > > If Citra has to be the anchor of the sidereal zodiac, then
> > > Narasimha
> > > > > > Rao's method is no doubt an important correction to the Lahiri
> > > > > > ayanamsha. However, from a philosophical point of view, I do not
> > > see
> > > > > > why Citra should play such an important part in astrology as to
> > > > define
> > > > > > the beginning of the rashichakra. E.g., why not take the Galactic
> > > > > > Centre at the beginning of Mulanakshatra? Kindly think of the
> > > > meaning
> > > > > > of mula! That would make more sense, would it not? Or maybe even
> > > > > > better: the intersection point of the Galactic equator with the
> > > > > > ecliptic could be put at the beginning of Mula? Or if you put that
> > > > > > intersection point into the middle of Mulanakshatra, it would even
> > > > be
> > > > > > close to Lahiri-Ayanamsha.
> > > > > > Unquote
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Will you like comment on it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Sunil KB
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > From: Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@
> > > > > > To: JyotishWritings@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > > > JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 3:25 PM
> > > > > > Subject: [JyotishGroup] Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta
> > > > vs
> > > > > > SSS
> > > > > > Namaste Ranjan,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for the nice words. The thing with intuition is that it
> > > > cannot
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > transmitted. One needs to work hard to develop it and often some
> > > > > > moral/spiritual fabric is needed in one's character. Logical
> > > > knowledge
> > > > > > on the other hand can be transmitted and preserved.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sadly, people have corrupted the "logical knowledge" portion of
> > > > > > Jyotish
> > > > > > teachings of rishis and making up for it with intuition for the
> > > last
> > > > > > several centuries.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But, with the the age of intelligent machines dawning on humanity
> > > > and
> > > > > > moral/spiritual fabric of humanity seeing a fast deterioration,
> > > > > > retrieving SOME "logical knowledge" portions of the teachings of
> > > > > > rishis
> > > > > > and preserving for coming generations in an easy form will be very
> > > > > > valuable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Namaste Sunil ji,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are many parameters other than ayanamsa, where people have
> > > > > > different opinions. Resolving the ayanamsa issue is just one piece
> > > > of
> > > > > > the puzzle.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > BTW, I have already come up with an ayanamsa, in 2008-2009. But I
> > > > did
> > > > > > not name it "Narasimha ayanamsa". I named it "Jagannatha
> > > ayanamsa".
> > > > It
> > > > > > is available in JHora.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In standard Lahiri ayanamsa, Chitra (spica) star *fluctuates*
> > > around
> > > > > > 180
> > > > > > deg. In Jagannatha ayanamsa, Chitra is always *fixed* at exactly
> > > 180
> > > > > > deg.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Secondly, the 2-dimensional plane onto which heavenly bodies are
> > > > > > projected is a *fluctuating* plane, in Lahiri ayanamsa (and most
> > > > other
> > > > > > ayanamsas). Suppose we make a natal chart in April 1970 and a
> > > > transit
> > > > > > chart in October 2011 and correlate planetary positions. The
> > > planes
> > > > on
> > > > > > which planets are projected are totally different on the two
> > > dates!
> > > > > > Yet,
> > > > > > we compare the positions!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In Jagannatha ayanamsa, this plane is fixed and does not change
> > > from
> > > > > > one
> > > > > > day to another. Instead of using the fluctuating Sun-earth
> > > rotation
> > > > > > plane, Jagannatha ayanamsa uses the *mean* Sun-earth rotation
> > > plane.
> > > > > > So
> > > > > > it is fixed and does not fluctuate.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thus, Jagannatha ayanamsa is just Lahiri ayanamsa with a truly
> > > fixed
> > > > > > zero point and a fixed plane. It is very close to Lahiri ayanamsa.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > Narasimha
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Sunil Bhattacharjya
> > > > > > <sunil_bhattacharjya@> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Dear Rohini,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Narasimhaji said:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> QUOTE
> > > > > >> I have not yet found what I am looking for, though I experimented
> > > a
> > > > > >> lot.
> > > > > >>> Neither SSS nor drik siddhanta with Lahiri/Jagannatha ayanamsa
> > > > (and
> > > > > >>> Tithi Pravesha etc) come close to that really. Nor does anything
> > > > > >>> else
> > > > > >>> I ever had exposure to.
> > > > > >> UNQUOTE
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Is it a prelude to Mr. Narasimha's possible coming out with a
> > > > > >> "Narasimha Ayanamsha"? Let us hope the Ayanamsha debate will be
> > > put
> > > > > >> to
> > > > > >> rest soon.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Best,
> > > > > >> SKB
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> ________________________________
> > > > > >> From: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@>
> > > > > >> To: JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012
> > > > 10:50
> > > > > >> PM
> > > > > >> Subject: [JyotishGroup] Re: Turning the clock back: Drik
> > > Siddhanta
> > > > vs
> > > > > >> SSS
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Â Happy Gudi Padwa, Narasimha!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> As the craft progresses and so do we, I am reminded of the words
> > > of
> > > > > >> Charles, my wise friend, which I paraphrase, rather than copy and
> > > > > >> paste!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> The bird of divination has two wings, Logic and Intuition. Cut
> > > off
> > > > > >> either one and the bird flops around, going in circles but never
> > > > > >> managing to leave ground and "take-off"
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> What you have given to Jyotish already, regardless of what
> > > > jyotishis
> > > > > >> and jyotishi-wanna_bees realize or not is simplicity, clarity and
> > > > > >> HONESTY!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Whether they *took* it or not is THEIR PROBLEM!!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Warm regards,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Ranjan
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Namaste friends,
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Happy new lunar year Nandana!
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> If you are not interested in my views on Jyotish techniques and
> > > > > >>> controversies, please skip this mail.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Those who follow my Jyotish writings know that I switched to
> > > using
> > > > > >>> SSS (Sri Surya Siddhanta) for planetary calculations, at the end
> > > > of
> > > > > >>> 2010. I wrote a lot on it for a few months and then went almost
> > > > > >>> silent. The reason was that I was evaluating SSS vs drik
> > > siddhanta
> > > > > >>> with many more examples, after the initial euphoria died down. I
> > > > > >>> revisited many previous predictions and evaluated many more
> > > charts
> > > > > >>> and events and analyzed whether I made the right judgment in
> > > 2010.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Some people may be excited to hear this, some may be
> > > disappointed
> > > > > >>> and
> > > > > >>> some may be confused. But none of that is my intention. This is
> > > > just
> > > > > >>> an impassionate and rational judgment made over time. My
> > > apologies
> > > > > >>> to
> > > > > >>> anyone who is troubled by this in any way.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> * * *
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> It is my judgment that drik siddhanta with Lahiri/Jagannatha
> > > > > >>> ayanamsa
> > > > > >>> allowed me to make the most successful predictions, especially
> > > > using
> > > > > >>> the technique of Tithi Pravesha (learnt from, and thanks to, Pt
> > > > > >>> Sanjay Rath). Drik siddhanta with Jagannatha ayanamsa (a slight
> > > > > >>> variation of Lahiri ayanamsa) allowed me to come up with the
> > > most
> > > > > >>> promising objective techniques based on objective correlations
> > > > > >>> between divisional longitudes (e.g. stationary transits, padamsa
> > > > > >>> transits, vimsottari progression & transits, transit
> > > conjunctions
> > > > > >>> etc). Tithi Prav esha and none of those objective longitude
> > > > > >>> correlation techniques seem to work well with SSS and I could
> > > not
> > > > > >>> come up with any other objective methods with SSS. Though there
> > > > were
> > > > > >>> a few things (e.g. divisional Vimsottari dasa) that I was happy
> > > > with
> > > > > >>> when using SSS, they did not measure up in the final analysis,
> > > in
> > > > > >>> terms of consistency, objectivity and reliability with a much
> > > > larger
> > > > > >>> set of examples.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> After careful consideration over a few months, I determined that
> > > > > >>> turning the clock back by 13-14 months and switching back to
> > > drik
> > > > > >>> siddhanta and Jagannatha ayanamsa is the best way forward for me
> > > > to
> > > > > >>> carry on my Jyotish researches. That is what I will be doing in
> > > my
> > > > > >>> public writings, from today onwards!
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I have integrated a few ideas developed during the SSS journey
> > > > (e.g.
> > > > > >>> divisional Vimsottari dasa, correct interpretation of Parasara's
> > > > > >>> verses on aspect evaluation) into my old methodology based on
> > > drik
> > > > > >>> siddhanta and Jagannatha ayanamsa. I will be using them going
> > > > > >>> forward. But my staple will again be Tithi Pravesha. I will also
> > > > be
> > > > > >>> again picking up several interesting objective researches based
> > > on
> > > > > >>> divisional longitudes, which I came up with during 2008-2010
> > > > (please
> > > > > >>> see http://www.vedicastrologer.org/articles for the wrtieups).
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> * * *
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Just to be clear, Jagannatha Hora software will continue to
> > > > support
> > > > > >>> SSS, so that those who are interested in it can use it. Also, I
> > > am
> > > > > >>> thankful to Sri Vinay Jha for enabling me to experiment with SSS
> > > > and
> > > > > >>> to enable users of JHora to experiment with it. But I will not
> > > be
> > > > > >>> using SSS or promoting it anymore.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> * * *
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I have to honestly say one thing here.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> One learned friend once said that astrology is a combination of
> > > > > >>> science and art. He honestly said he started off with a "more
> > > > > >>> science
> > > > > >>> and less art" approach when young and settled with a "less
> > > science
> > > > > >>> and more art" approach in the end. He said everyone has to
> > > strike
> > > > > >>> the
> > > > > >>> right balance for oneself.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Some use tropical zodiac, some use sidereal zodiac, some use a
> > > > > >>> combination. Some use Lahiri ayanamsa, some use Krishnamoorthy
> > > > > >>> ayanamsa, some use some other ayanamsas. Some use rasi, some use
> > > > > >>> rasi-navamsa, some use all divisional charts. Some use
> > > Vimsottari
> > > > > >>> dasa, some use Chara dasa, some use many dasas. There are many
> > > > > >>> variations. People find what works for them and settle with some
> > > > > >>> "less science and more art" approach that suits their mind.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I too struck my balance in the past, but never stopped and kept
> > > > > >>> searching for a method that reduces the role of art (intuition).
> > > I
> > > > > >>> am
> > > > > >>> not looking to just strike a balance personally and pursue
> > > > something
> > > > > >>> for myself. My goal is to unearth some techniques that
> > > *minimize*
> > > > > >>> the
> > > > > >>> role of *intuition*, so that laymen of future generations can
> > > > > >>> benefit
> > > > > >>> from Jyotish, atleast for basic guidance in major life
> > > decisions,
> > > > > >>> without depending on astrologers who are increasingly becoming
> > > > > >>> commercial and unreliable.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I have not yet found what I am looking for, though I
> > > experimented
> > > > a
> > > > > >>> lot. Neither SSS nor drik siddhanta with Lahiri/Jagannatha
> > > > ayanamsa
> > > > > >>> (and Tithi Pravesha etc) come close to that really. Nor does
> > > > > >>> anything
> > > > > >>> else I ever had exposure to. Intuition still has *too
> > > significant*
> > > > a
> > > > > >>> role in all these techniques for them to be really useful to
> > > > laymen.
> > > > > >>> That is why I keep searching for something better. If I make a
> > > > wrong
> > > > > >>> turn, I'll come back when I realize it.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> In the end, it may very well turn out that my whole goal is a
> > > pipe
> > > > > >>> dream. A technique that minimizes the role of intuition and
> > > usable
> > > > > >>> by
> > > > > >>> laymen may not even exist, though some statements by Parasara in
> > > > > >>> BPHS
> > > > > >>> give me hope. Those who follow me overzealously may kindly note
> > > > this
> > > > > >>> possibility. I am perfectly ok with spending my entire life and
> > > > not
> > > > > >>> reaching my goal. If your goal is to strike some personal
> > > balance
> > > > > >>> and
> > > > > >>> becoming a good astrologer, you may be better off sticking to
> > > > > >>> something or the other (instead of following me on each turn and
> > > > > >>> twist) and working on your *intuition* through spiritual
> > > > practices.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Best regards,
> > > > > >>> Narasimha
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>




#64458 From: Sreenadh OG <sreesog@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:35 am
Subject: Dead Names: THe Dark History of the Necronomicon
sreesog
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A Book Review by Chakra ji: http://chakra37.blogspot.in/2011/12/dead-names-dark-history-of-necronomicon.html
===================

Dead Names: THe Dark History of the Necronomicon

Book Review: Dead Names: The Dark History of the Necronomicon 
by Simon (Avon Books 2006)

This was a great read. Simon sure can weave a tale, though in this book he recounts the rather bizarre story of how the famous grimoire – The Necronomicon – ie. The Book of Dead Names, fell into his hands. It has been assumed, according to internet analysis and a book that has been written, that the Necronomicon is a hoax, invented and perpetuated by Simon and his colleagues. Simon (a professed pseudonym) here presents his argument that the Necronimocon is a real textual grimoire written in Greek by an Arab late in the first millenium CE. He claimed that the manuscript turned up as a part of the booty in a theft ring of esoteric books from libraries (mostly European) in the 70’s. He shows the actual newspaper article about the two priests implicated in the thefts. Simon is apparently a priest of the Eastern Orthodox sect who became more and more interested in ceremonial magick as time passed. He worked with the OTO in New York City (but said he was never a member), taught classes in magick at Herman Slater’s Warlock Shoppe in New York City, and was part of the varied magickal community an NYC during the magical revival of the 70’s and 80’s. He does a great job of painting a picture of that time and place. The Warlock Shoppe became Magickal Childe in the 80’s and I remember getting the catalogues from them then so I actually remember many of the things to which he refers. Simon does mention in the preface that he does at times attribute conduct to himself to protect the privacy of some others – particularly ecclesiastical personnel – involved, who do not wish to risk their reputations.

The Necronomicon has been assumed to have been invented as a legendary magic text in the 20’s by the horror author H.P Lovecraft who apparently mentions both the book and a bit of its content. Simon claims to never have heard of Lovecraft’s story when the Necronomicon fell into his hands. If this is true we are left to ponder how Lovecraft knew about it which remains unanswered. Simon’s Necronomicon contains many names from ancient Sumerian. The Sumerian script and pronunciation was not recovered and interpreted until the late 19th century. This can only mean that there was a tradition practicing with Sumerian deities until the late Dark Ages when the Arab composed the text. Certainly Sumerian would have been known to the later Babylonians and Assyrians. Simon suggests that it was kept up by tribal peoples. The text contains ‘bastardized’ Sumerian and Babylonian intermingled with Neoplatonic type magic which is what one might expect from a later text. If the text did emanate from Arabia – it would not be so far-fetched as Arabia is very close geographically to southern Iraq and ancient Sumer and Babylon. Yemen is also an area referred to in ancient and modern works in the Necronomicon and in works on Arabic magick.

Simon teaches us about the ‘wandering bishops’ – bishops of various Christian churches with shoddy or non-existent credentials. He tells the story of Andrew Prazsky, who became a bishop of the Slavonic Orthodox Church at a young age under bizarre circumstances and his friend, the writer Peter Lavenda. Prazsky started his own church, was a collector of church paraphernalia (and rare occult texts), a well known homosexual, a shyster, and employer of the two priests convicted in the rare book heists. Simon thinks that he burned the manuscripts, including the Necronomicom, out of fear of being implicated. Prazsky died under mysterious circumstances – possibly accidental but likely a suicide. His aged father committed suicide before him by hanging himself in the church on the eve of the Russian Orthodox Christmas. These tragedies are part of the “Dark History of the Necronomicon” as is the suicide of the original publisher – Larry Barnes of Barnes Graphics – from a drug overdose. Herman Slater and his partner at the occult shop died of AIDS. Simon tells the stories of all these people but notes that the history was not all dark as many people did quite well. He tells the story of a vibrant occult scene that included varied groups and types of people from Wicca, paganism, OTO, Church of Satan, Process Church (this one an offshoot from Scientology), New Age, and even the Son of Sam Cult that was implicated in several serial murders and animal sacrifices. Simon was apparently involved in the staging of fests such as the performance of the Rock Opera Book of the Law – which incidentally is why I originally got the book – as I was looking for info on this – I have it on a cassette somewhere but not much can be found on the internet about it. The performance and recording was done by a band called Black 47 (though they may have been called – The Major Thinkers – then. A guy named Larry Kirwan is credited with some of the music. His band, Black 47, is apparently quite popular now as an Irish band in NYC area and has done music for many movies. People congregated around a pub called Bells of Hell and Simon was part of a group called StarGroup One that put things together media and magic-wise. Even the Marvel Comics crowd were among the folk. Later in the book Simon gives updates on several of these folk.

Simon goes into great detail about the goings on of the Wandering Bishops including Pratzsky’s and Lavenda’s daring appearance (as teens) at the televised funeral of Robert Kennedy where they apparently faked their way in dressed as young priests in Russian Orthodox garb and knew enough of the rite to seem authentic. This happened before they became recognized priests and helped authenticate them. Many of the ‘apostolic successions’ or lineages of various sects are examined.

Simon talks about the appearance of the book, his getting various people to translate it from the Greek and other people to re-draw all the sigils in the book. He describes how Larry Barnes came into the picture, how the book was promoted, the first hardbound edition, and the eventual mass market paperback edition by Avon Books  - that was not originally planned. Many people have criticized this format for a secret and potentially dangerous grimoire but Simon seems to like that it was available to people at low cost. There is much discussion also of young occultists working with it as a symbol of the self-professed and quite reckless teenage satanist. The book was found to be possessed by a small teenage cult who committed murder and was suggested to be possibly implicated in other occult crimes but Simon shrugs off such nonsense. He also gives a good history of the  ‘Satanic Panic’ of the late 1980’s that brought occult crime paranoia to its height with most of it found to be a total hoax. The Son of Sam Cult was an exception. Ritual murders were committed by them as part of an offshoot of the Process Church which was itself an offshoot of Scientology. This Cult had nothing to do with the Necronomicon but some of its members undoubtably crossed paths and shared events with others in the general occult community of the time and place. Simon gives has own interesting analysis of troubled teenager occultism below:

“The idea that reciting a few prayers from a book enables one to master the unseen world is very attractive to the disenfranchised elements of our society. Those who are powerless in any other way – politically, economically, socially – can seek solace in these forbidden books and a means to self-empowerment. That is why troubled and disturbed teenagers find the occult so fascinating, for they are suffering from two forms of stress: the normal stress of being adolescent in a world full of stimulation and excess, and the stress that comes from psychological imbalance and disorder. In effect, these troubled youths are potential shamans for they fit many of the requirements of shamanism as described in works by Mircea Eliade, for instance: mental disorders, confusion over sexual identity, creative sensitivity, social ostracism. In the case of the shamans, the initiate returns to the tribe empowered by the spirits to fulfill a necessary role as healer and seer. In our case – in modern Western, scientifically oriented society – the “initiate” has no social function to fulfill, no “redeeming social value,” and no cultural framework in which to understand the changes that are taking place within his soul or the strange desires that motivate him. He either outgrows this fascination with the occult as he forces himself into some semblance of balance or conformity, or he turns into a Roderick Ferrell and looks for sacrificial victims. There is rarely a desire to turn to organized religion for comfort or understanding, since the whole point of the occult quest is to seek out an alternative form of spiritual expression, one that provides avenue for the deep conflicts one is experiencing as well as an outlet for the anti-social acts he feels driven to commit. Organized religion is ill-equipped to deal in a constructive way with feelings of anger, rage, lust, and the other, baser human emotions and instincts. Its approach has always been to control or exorcise those feelings, to rein them in or banish them entirely. The occultist – especially the young, adolescent occultist – distrusts that approach to what he believes are his natural inclinations.”

Part 2 of the book is called – The Sumerian Tradition and the Hidden God – and this part I found to be rather fascinating. Apparently the similarities of the Necronomicon to an authentic Sumerian text such as the Enuma Elish, recovered in archaeological investigations – show the Necronomicon to have gone through many changes – to have been ‘bastardized’ as Simon puts it, by time and cultural crossings. He suggests that there are so many references to Sumerian and later Akkadian and Babylonian civilizations that the grimoire is a unique survival of an occult system that made its way through various changes of empire and was glossed over by the popular neo-Platonic forms of Hermetic magick of the Mediterranean areas of the early years of the first millenium. It is well known that the Babylonians and Akkadians preserved the Sumerian language as well as Sumerian religion and magic. According to Simon:

“What we seem to have is an attempt by a Middle Eastern occultist to syncretize the oral tradition of his cult, a Sumerian tradition, with the more literate Gnostic and neo-Platonist influences alive in his environment.”

Simon suggests that the Toda people of Southwest India were Sumerians that had fled and eventually landed there. Their stone monuments and the symbols thereon – eight petaled star flower, seven pointed stars, lunar crescent horns, and scorpions are very similar to Sumerian monuments and so to is their god On – to the Sumerian An, or Anu. Sumerian loan words are thought to be in their language – which is an Elamite-Dravidian dialect. The Elamites came from Iran northeast of Mesopotamia but their precursor culture may have as well been the Sumerian precursor culture as well as perhaps the Indus Valley culture. Genetic markers of the Toda – which is a very small tribal population – are apparently much different than most Indians, and they are much lighter skinned than most South Indian Dravidians. Simon suggests the possibility that the Toda fled Sumeria when the Semitic Babylonians invaded around 2000 BC. The example of he Toda is given as one possibility as to how a Sumerian tradition could survive. Next he talks about the cult of the Yezidis in northern Iraq that have Shaitan as a deity. As well they venerate Melek Taus, the Peacock Angel and the well-known demon Azazel – who they call Melek Azazel. This is thought to be similar to the Canaanite deity Asiz. Simon suggests a relation to the Azif of the Necronomicon – which refers to the ‘nocturnal howling of the Jinn’ and - Al Azif - is apparently the Arabic title of the Necronomicon. Azazel is also the scapegoat of the Jews, carrier of the sins away into the wilderness. The very fact that these deities (Azazel, Shaitan [Satan]) are demons and devils in Islamic and later ceremonial magick traditions suggests that perhaps they were gods in earlier cultures. Yezidism was formed from earlier cults during the life of the founder Sufi – Sheikh Adi ben Musafir – in the 1100’s C.E. Previous to this there was a mythical belief in the area of  - the King of the Jinn, aka Shaitan or Ibliss. Simon links the Yezidi beliefs in seven angels, a forgetful God, and other symbols and practices to ancient Mesopotamian beliefs. The admonitions in the Necronomicon “Spirit of the earth remember, Spirit of the sky remember” also suggest that the gods are forgetful.

Simon suggests that Lovecraft’s demon Cthulhu is the same as KUTULU given in the Necronomocon which means “Man of Kutu” or “Man of the Underworld.” In the north of Sumer was the city of Cutha, or Gudua, or Kutu (in Semitic). The deity of this city was Nergal, god of Mars. It was also a necropolis, a ‘city of the dead’ or resting place of the dead. Nergal was also a god of death and the Underworld and ancient tablets apparently mention the forces of chaos being ‘suckled’ by the monstrous sea goddess Tiamat – similar to the Necronomicon descriptions. Simon links the Cuthites to the biblical Samaritans who apparently are still a small minority in Israel and still practice animal sacrifice as in the old ways. Apparently they were also around Saudi Arabia in the early centuries A.D. and were in Mecca during the time of Mohammed as is mentioned. The Samaritans were considered heretics by the Jews for worshipping idols. Mohammed was of the priestly tribe called the Quraysh who were in charge of the Black Stone of Mecca. Pre-Islamic peoples would visit and circumambulate this stone/Ka’aba/cube (much as Moslems do today) which was associated with 360 deities – 360 being a well known Babylonian number of the complete circle, the zodiac, and time. Mohammed may have exploited the Jews’ disdain for the Samaritans in order to convert the Jews of Mecca to Islam. The seven circumambulations of the stone at Mecca may well be presaged by the seven gates of several Sumerian and Babylonian stories (as in a few different Inanna myths) and the seven steps of the ziggurats – and the various symbolism of the seven zonei, or wanderers/planets given in the Necronomicon and Babylonian omen astrology. Simon suggests that the sacrifice of goats and sheep among Muslims on pilgrimage to Mecca harks back to pre-Islamic times and that the priests of the Quraysh tribe may have been the old priests of the war god Nergal at Cutha. After being won over to Mohammed’s doctrine they conquered Mesopotamia (their old homeland?) and the caliphate was eventually set up in Baghdad. The Quraysh tribe was known to be in Babylon around 200 A.D. during the Sassanid Persian Empire where they acquired writing and practices of the Persian Magi. They also brought to Mecca the Mesopotamian deities Hubal and al-Uzza (Goddess of Venus). Nergal was known at this time period in Mesopotamia as well. As far as chthonic deities such as Nergal, Simon notes that Lovecraft invented in his stories – Miskatonic University – which certainly suggests the word ‘chthonic” in its European pronunciation. He also notes a pre- Lovecraft occurrence of a Semitic version of the word Kutulu in a recently found version of – The Key of Solomon – thought to have been lost. Here the name and seal of Kutulu (KThULH) is immediately followed by a description of the Mazkim – the ‘liers in wait’ demons mentioned in the Necronomicon. Many years after the book was published Simon mentions being led to a web posting on Arabic magic where it was posted that khathoolan is a word in Arabic meaning ‘deserter’ and can also refer to Satan in the Quran. He suggests that perhaps Lovecraft had some sort of access to lost Arab magic information. “Deserter’ or ‘abandoner’ again suggests the old forgetful gods.

In describing the key Middle Eastern influences on the Western occult traditions Simon offers the following:

“... the most dramatic influence on modern occultism derives from the Qabala of the Jews, the astrology of the Babylonians, and the syncretistic mass of supernatural beliefs and practices inherited from the ancient Egyptians, the Gnostics, the Arabs, the Manicheans, and others that have come down to us in such esoteric traditions as alchemy, Rosicrucianism, Templarism, and Freemasonry.”

Lovecraft gave a date of 730 A.D. for the writing of the Necronomicon. This would be about a hundred years after the founding of Islam and among the height of the conquests where old pagan beliefs were in deep danger of being wiped out – as is indicated in the dire language of the ‘Mad Arab’ in the Necronomicon.

Simon goes on to compare the works of the Thelemic mages, Aleister Crowley, Kenneth Grant, and Jack Parsons in regards to the Sumerian tradition. Crowley encountered the Yezidi in his travels and was quoted by Grant as saying that the rediscovery of the Sumerian tradition was a key goal of magick. The spirit/loa/god/trans-human intelligence said to have dictated the – Book of the Law – to Crowley’s consort at the time – was named Aiwas. Aiwas was said by Crowley to have been the true name of the god of the Yezidis. Aiwas has also been equated to Shaitan and in several Thelemic rites is given as Shaitan-Aiwas. Though Simon thinks Lovecraft had access to authentic Arabic magic texts – perhaps the Necronomicon itself, Grant considered Lovecraft to have somehow channeled these authentic ancient currents. There is also mentioned a (legendary?) Arabic grimoire called – The Veils of Negative Existence – which was said by occult scholar Francis King to have once been in the possession of the Golden Dawn. He also discusses Grant’s notion of – The Hidden God – perhaps in reference to old displaced gods in general as the gods of our ancestors still remotely accessible to us and/or to the dangerous and chaotic/chthonic “Ancient Ones” mentioned in the Necronomicon.

Simon goes through the initiatory structure in the Necronomicon where one encounters the Seven Gates – again equated to the planets, colors, symbols, and other correspondences. Also there is reference to guarding the gates (in service to humanity) magically so that chaotic and destructive magical forces don’t find their way through to our plane. There is an account of Inanna’s descent into the Underworld and her return. Simon suggests that she did not return alone but brought dangerous magical forces with her. Also discussed is the possibility that the Sumerian religion refers to extraterrestrial contact – such as was mentioned and written extensively about by the late Zacharia Sitchin. There is a ritual in the text of blood sacrifice – which really makes the detractors of the text cringe and consider it an evil satanic text – but as Simon points out – animal sacrifice was quite common in pagan times and is common then and today as well among Muslims and many other peoples. One would perhaps expect it from a non-Christianized sect of that time and place.

Next Simon refutes much of the information floating around the internet about the book and how it came to be. He exclusively refutes many of the assertions of Gonce and Harm’s book – The Necronomicon Files – published in 1998 and 2003. Though I have never read this book – Simon does take quotes from it and soundly refute them. He suggests that it is mostly an amateurish attack on his credibility, the authenticity of the text, and the danger of the text in leading to occult crime. Simon’s arguments, especially as to lore, are well referenced and clearly and well stated.

Simon also notes a few other books he has penned about the Necronomicon: The Gates of the Necronomicon – and the Necronomicon Spellbook. There is another one I have by Donald Tyson that was published around the same times as – Dead Names – but I have not read it. At a glance it looks like it does have quite a bit of lore that perhaps corroborates some of Simon’s work.

I really enjoyed this book – a fast and exciting read. Whether what - Simon says – is true or partially true or an elaborate hoax – it sure was a fun read. I have found Simon’s analysis in this book to be intelligent, plausible, accurate to what I know, and so he does seem sincere. I read the Necronomicon many years ago and may have done some preliminary exercises with it but no major rituals. I do know a few people that have done some of the rites and I do recall some strange results. The fact that the Necronomicon was published in small paperback format by Avon – as was this book – Dead Names – made it very inexpensive and available. It was a very good selling occult book compared to most in such a genre. I remember actually familiarizing myself as a late teen (with a few magical comrades) with the deities and ideas in the book. We saw it as daring and perhaps dangerous but not as satanic or destructive. We appreciated the ancient lore and the possibility of tapping into lost and perhaps powerful sources of magical energy.


===================

#64459 From: Sreenadh OG <sreesog@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:38 am
Subject: Soma: The Divine Hallucinogen
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Another Book Review from Chakra ji: http://chakra37.blogspot.in/2011/12/soma-divine-hallucinogen.html
===================

Soma: The Divine Hallucinogen

Book Review: Soma: The Divine Hallucinogen by David L. Spess
(Park Street Press 2000)

This is a fascinating mind-blowing account of the ancient Vedic Soma Tradition (and Avestan Haoma tradition) and its undoubted and very precise influence on all alchemical traditions, early magic, and the spiritual tradition of the East, Near East, and the West.

The Vedic Soma plant was called the ‘elixir of immortality’. According to Spess the plant’s identity was veiled in secrecy. He says that this original ‘elixir of immortality’ spawned all the subsequent legendary elixirs – those of Chinese Taoism, and those of Greco-Egyptian, Islamic, and European alchemy.

The described affects of the specially prepared Soma include ‘luminous ecstatic states’, increased longevity, and enhanced paranormal abilities. Spess equates the regular practice of the Soma rite to developing the ‘body of light’ – or astral/energy body – which is a major goal of magical traditions. He also postulates that similar hallucinogenic drinks were central features of the Mystery Religions. He wonders if therapeutic drugs could be made from the soma plant(s).

The Rig Veda has many sections with hymns devoted to Soma, as deity and as sacred plant/plant formulation. The author also mentions a lost text known as the Madhu Brahmana where the soma recipe and formulation was said to be written down but it was also surely passed down in an oral tradition. The secret of soma and its preparation is known as the madhu-vidya, or “honey doctrine.” The references to soma in the Rg Veda are poetic and cryptic with allusions somewhat akin to ‘kennings.’  

Shamanistic entheogenic rites likely evolved as people became more settled. The Vedic hymns are thought to have been written down between 1800 and 900 BC but the rites and myths referred to may be much older, perhaps even stretching back to Indo-Iranian peoples of central Asia circa 4000-3500 BC.

The author suggests that ancient herbalists found combinations of psychoactive substances. He thinks soma was such a combination and that it had multiple effects: sedative, stimulant, hallucinogen, and enhancer of psychic abilities. He suggests that different preparations and combinations at different dosages produced different effects and that the literature suggests that daily use among both priests and common people occurred. Soma sages were said to have abilities to walk on water and to enter into rays of light or transform into bodies of light. He suggests doctrines that certain plants can store light and under proper preparation techniques that light can be unleashed and form a medium for the human body-mind. This is similar to doctrines among Gnostic Manicheans and alchemists. He suggests that the ‘entheogenic light’ of these plants could awaken the inner light of humans. So here he is postulating a definite connection of Vedic doctrine with much later Manichean Gnostic doctrine from 200’s AD. Soma is strongly associated with luminous phenomena in the Vedic hymns. It is associated with internal luminosity and the ‘cosmic pillar of light.’ This pillar is also mentioned in the Eleusinian Mysteries which were also thought to employ entheogens and according to the author are, through the structure and ritual use of the entheogen, a later form of the same basic rite. Indra and the wild deities called the Maruts that help him are all said to partake of the soma and its ecstasy. Indra is said in some hymns to have created the entire cosmos while in soma ecstasy. The soma drinking priest identifies with Indra. The Vedic gods are said to maintain their immortality by drinking soma. The sages become immortal by drinking soma. Soma was also considered a great medicine. It was reputed to heal eye diseases, joints, limbs, vital energy imbalances, and lack of virility. Vedic hymns suggest that soma lifts one out of the body like gusts of wind into the Anthropos of light at the cosmic center of the universe. It is unknown whether soma was a hallucinogen in our current common usage of the term – but the author thinks that the rite lasted three days or longer and that the ecstatic states described suggest intense experiences.

Spess seems to think that the Avestan haoma was prior to the Vedic soma and was a different plant. He suggests that since Indus Valley times the Aryan people traded and overlapped cultures with the IV peoples. The IV peoples were thought to have a vast trading network with outposts on the Arabian coast to trade with Sumerians. He thinks that plant knowledge from India combined with Indo-Iranian entheogen rite to make up the Vedic soma rite.

Spess gives the main soma plant as the lotus plant – Nelumbo species. But he also notes that there were many formulations called soma and these often included the related Nymphaea – or water lily plant. Apparently there were many varieties of these plants, Northern India being the most rich in them. The Egyptian water lily was found to be exactly the same species as in India and is thought to have been brought to Egypt at an early – pre-dynastic date – when Spess says tribes migrated from Iran to Northern Egypt. The trade of the lotus plants may have come through the Indus Valley trade networks. Both of these plants are psychoactive and medicinal with Nelumbo having a long reputation as a longevity herb – being as well anti-bacterial, anti-tumoral, and rejuvinative. Recent medical tests confirm some of these properties.

The author roughly describes several different lotus drinks, both unfermented and fermented. He notes that Nelumbo contains alkaloids that supress the effects of alcohol so that the alcohol in the body can further extract the entheogenic compounds and increase their effects.

He describes Buddha’s disciples being able to prepare lotus drinks – but only in times of food shortages. He suggests that they were aware that it could aid meditation but the danger of overindulgence compelled Buddha to restrict its consumption. He also suggests that by the time of Buddha (~500 BC) the plants were scarce from over-harvesting on the Indian plains and that the main source was the mountainous regions of Kashmir.

He notes that important compounds of these plants would oxidize readily after picking and so lose their potency. That is why he thinks that soma rites often occurred along the Indus or Saravati Rivers (in the Vedas) or other lakes and rivers. Brahmins cultivated them in temple pools.

Spess suggests that the lotus plants (Nelumbo and Nymphaea) had unusual ways of growing and were thought to be particularly connected to the sun and moon – absorbing and transmitting their energies in a special way. The mythological youthful horse twins – the Asvins – are associated with the preparation of soma at the three times of dawn, midday, and dusk. Spess thinks that freshly pressed soma juice, or sap, was mixed with a mead-like fermented soma beverage. The Asvins were the physicians of the gods and their medicine was soma. The soma allowed one to glow like the moon god, Soma. Symbolically the Asvins are associated with the flowers themselves, but possibly also the buds (which resemble horseheads in profile) and the leaves (which resemble horses’ hooves). It may be interesting to note that the parts of lotus plants also appear metaphorically in the esoteric lore of Buddhism and Hinduism. The Asvins are also associated with bee culture and honey, they being the flowers that give the nectar but also the bees themselves. Spess goes through quite a bit of symbolism that he derives from cryptic descriptions from the Rig Veda, Atharva Veda, and several other texts. He sees the horse and soma as representing a water god. He notes the churning of the milk ocean myth as a metaphor for making soma – indeed it is the elixir of immortality and the lotus goddess Laksmi as well as poison that comes from the churning. The Asvins are quite directly associated with the Greek youth twins, the Dioscuri, who are in a similar way associated to the Eleusinian Mysteries.

Throughout the ancient world India was legendary for people of long life and for the elixir of immortality. The “munis” or long-haired sages of India had sought out immortality though breath control, fasting, entheogens, and other ascetic practices. These “matty-haired” ascetics first taught the Buddha. “In both the Rg Veda and the Atharva Veda, the elixir was associated with gold, the imperishable solar metal.” The author thinks that the association of gold with the elixir of life transferred from the Vedics to the Chinese where it became a central principle to Taoist Alchemy. He says that it was only much later that gold was linked with the elixir in European and Islamic Alchemy. Interestingly, he notes the chanting meters of the Rg Veda (there were a few different ones).  He says that special breathing techniques were used with each type of meter rhythm. As someone who has done a fair share of chanting of sadhanas and mantras in liturgical languages (mostly Sanskrit and Tibetan) I can also say that long chanting itself in a ritualistic format can put one in a mild altered or enhanced consciousness state. The monotony of chanting can also spur a mild dissociative trance. In comparing the Indian and Chinese breathing techniques – some very detailed similarities have been noted and most scholars seem to agree that they came from a similar source which was likely India or the Vedic-Aryan areas.

The soma ceremonies seem to involve the drinking of the plant juices in conjunction with a yoga of the subtle body where a golden glow was developed in the womb of the heart. This inner womb of the heart is identified with activating the subtle body of light.

“This continuum-womb is identical to the Islamic philosopher’s egg, the internal elixir embryo of Taoist alchemy, and the Hermetic vessel of European alchemy.”

The author cites the ideas of Joseph Needham and H.H. Dubs regarding the transfer of alchemical ceremony and knowledge from India and perhaps Indo-Iranian tribes in greater-Persia to China likely through the Yueh-Chih people before 300 BCE. Some have claimed that alchemy was formulated in Egypt and the author does cede that alchemy as a syncretic philosophical system resulting in the Greco-Egyptian alchemical tradition. The author notes Demokritos (460-370 BCE) as an important early figure in this tradition. He was reported to have traveled widely – possibly to India. His theory of atoms is similar to that of the Ajivikas of India who were around during the time of Buddha. Pliny linked Demokritos to the Magi of Persia.

“The main ideas that were transmitted through Greece and Egypt concern the Indo-Iranian sacrificial rituals of haoma/soma. These rituals involve an up and down motion and circulation process, both within the human body and the greater universe. The notion of up and down movement is important in Greek alchemy. It has a direct relationship to uniting the aspects of microcosm and macrocosm. Another important aspect of the sacrificial rituals is the concept of the spiritual water. The subtle water is the luminous soma energy or the fiery water. This water is both the source of the unification of opposites and the ultimate goal of the alchemical quest. The sacrificial ritual unites the above and the below and opens up the source of the light of lights. All of the Greco-Egyptian alchemical operations take place within the bowl-shaped altar as the alembic-womb of transformation. This universal matrix is located at the cosmic center within the heart of being...... During the soma ceremony a dismemberment and then a rememberment occur within the solar heart, the Hermetic vessel. Within the heart as the alembic womb, luminous rays of being are gathered together through the sensory channels and alchemical creations and transmutations are formed within the oceanic-pneumatic matrix and projected from the heart outward into manifestation.”

The Asvins were said to produce a golden elixir by combining the sun and moon lotuses (day-blooming and night-blooming?) which is also the union of Agni (fire) and Soma (water) and so too the union of the sun and the moon. The union of opposite natures later became the sulphur-mercury theory of the medieval alchemists. The Barmakis of post-Buddhist Afghanistan and the Sabians of Harran may have been purveyors of Vedic/Persian of alchemical knowledge to the early Sufis – as well as the Greeks, Egyptians, and Indians themselves. In any case the author thinks that the Agni-Soma duality is the ultimate origin of the sulphur-mercury union of opposites.

The author examines the connection between the Indo-Iranian soma ceremony and the earliest known forms of Ancient Greek herbal magic. He mentions a fragment of a poem by Alcman from 650 BCE Sparta which describes a plant ceremony very similar to those described in the Rg Veda and shows many striking direct parallels. There is good evidence that the whole Greek conception of ambrosia derives from soma. The Greek plant is called “serpent-slayer” as is soma when it is stated that it was soma that gave Indra the strength to slay the serpent-dragon Vrtra. The pre-Socratic philosopher Empedocles is also thought have formulated the Pythagorean Greek magical thought from the Indo-Iranian magical traditions. Empedocles is also thought to have been influenced by Indian Buddhism and yoga – with yogic breath control practices attributed to him. Apollonius of Tyana also sings the praises of the Indian Brahmins. Possible connections between Indo-Aryans and Egypt include the possibility of the Hyksos Dynasty being Indo-Aryans, the Indo-Aryan Mitanni marriage contracts, and an Indian colony in the Egyptian city of Memphis around 500 BCE. Indian figurines from this period have been found in the temple of Ptah in Memphis. So this colony could be another possible avenue of Indian influence on early Gnosticism, Neo-Platonism, Theurgy, and Greco-Egyptian Alchemy. Rg Vedic, Kabbalistic, and Neoplatonic cosmologies share similarities, particularly the notion of the unmanifest and manifest worlds of matter. The descent into matter and the return to spirit and oneness is a similar theme. The author thinks that the origin of Neoplatonic theurgy is the Indian Vedas and Upanishads possibly through the influence of the so-called Chaldean Oracles (of Zoroaster) which may not be Chaldean and may not as well be derived from Zoroaster, or only partially. Many similarities occur between the Vedas/Upanishads and early Gnosticism and Hermeticism. These include the logos doctrine and the Anthropos-Adamas-Christ of light. The Purusa Sukta hymn of the Vedas refers to the Cosmic Being (sometimes as Vishnu, sometimes as Indra) that has direct parallels to the Anthropos, or primal man. Spess notes a relationship between the primal man and the cosmic tree/pillar as both pole star and midday sun – both being the zenith of the center of the sky.

The yogic idea of the gathering of prana in the heart also has some Gnostic corollaries. Jewish Merkabah mysticism, the Gnostic Pleroma, the glorified ‘body of Christ’, the Islamic ‘throne of god’ and the Imam as ‘man of light’ also likely relate directly to the Indo-Aryan Purusa-Sukta idea. The Greco-Egyptian alchemist Zosimos (~300 CE) mentions this subtle body alchemy as a central mystery of Mithraism as well. The logos doctrine, or the word as god, likely as well goes back to the Vedas. There is a similar creation myth form Memphis Egypt from about 500 BCE but this is thought to have come about later, perhaps being influenced by the earlier Vedic version. The inverted tree symbolism in alchemy has clear parallels in the Rg Veda and suggestions as well in Indus Valley art. The notion (as a few authors have noted) is that the polar (pole star) cosmologies of older shamanic peoples was unified with the solar cosmologies of the Indo-Aryans and made the basic cosmology myth model of many ancient peoples. The author thinks that the Indo-Aryan Mitanni passed on the cosmic tree symbolism to the Assyrians. He suggests that recent archeological digs in Hierakonpolis in southern Egypt indicate that the early founders of Egyptian civilization came from the vicinity of Iran. The author also ties in many ideas and symbolisms to later medieval alchemy. The union of heaven and earth, sun and moon, fire and water, Agni and Soma, and mercury and sulphur all indicate the Union of Opposites symbolism inherent in the soma ceremony and all known alchemical traditions.

Other later influences include the Ayurvedic rasayana alchemical rejuvination and healing techniques and the alchemical traditions of Buddhism and Tantra. The notion of the body as microcosm with the subtle yoga body of chakras, winds, channels, and drops is a probable derivative as well. The yogic central channel (Shushumna) as a pillar of light and as the most important channel to be developed is a rather direct corollary as well. Interestingly the famed Buddhist Tantric guru Padmanambhava (the lotus-born) and the whole early Tantric tradition may well have been influenced by the Indo-Iranian magi. Greater India at the time included areas adjacent to the Persian empire and these are the areas where Tantra was likely formulated.

“The origin of the Tibetan practices of uniting the red and white bindus within the heart to form the “ground of being luminosity” comes from the Rg Vedic soma ceremony in its uniting of the white celestial soma with the red Agni fire. This practice is basic to most Tibetan Buddhist schools, two of which are the Dzogchen and the Kalacakra.”

Subtle body yogas of the Tamil and Nath Siddhas, the Buddhist Siddhacarya (Mahasiddha tradition), and Kalachakra Tantra all have an element of alchemical transformation.

He compares the myth of the Golden Fleece to the golden egg/golden embryo alchemical symbolism to descriptions of the soma brew being formulated by the Asvins – the equivalent Dioscuri twins are involved with Golden Fleece.

Patanjali in his Yoga Sutras notes that supernatural powers similar to yogic powers can be derived from certain herbs. The early Indian Buddhist alchemist Nagarjuna says more or less the same. One of the yogic powers is the transmutation of substances into gold. Tantra can also be referred to Tantric Alchemy:

“The Hindu Tantra Kamakalavilasa states that the bindu, or essence of the universe, consists of two parts: one white, the other red, which represents Siva as soma and Sakti as fire in the tantric systems..........Uniting the opposites is considered the method of producing the philosophers’ stone. It is also the method of achieving enlightenment in tantric philosophy and the soma ceremony.”

In some genealogies of alchemy Zoroaster (an Indo-Iranian) is given as the first in the lineages further suggesting an Indo-Iranian, or Indo-Aryan (as the Vedas probably contain ceremonial and herbal data before the Aryan-Iranian split) origin of alchemy.

This was a great and exciting read – though not all of it entirely convincing. The author does make a great and undeniable case for the signifiacnt Vedic influence on all of these ancient spiritual ideas.

===================

#64460 From: Sreenadh OG <sreesog@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:41 am
Subject: Click here for panchanga
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#64461 From: Sreenadh OG <sreesog@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:44 am
Subject: CHAKRA RASI Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri
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Source: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://jyotishashastra.blogspot.com/2012/04/rasi-chakra-de-swami-sri-yukteswar-giri.html
============================

CHAKRA RASI Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri


Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri (1855-1936).


REASON AND PURPOSE OF THIS STUDY

The successful impact of exposed pipe article last month in this blog, entitled "Findings of Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri on Astrology" , has motivated me and provided the impetus to share this time I started work done in During the year 2005 as it marked the 150th anniversary of his birth. Prior to that time I tried to get your full birth data by any means but unfortunately I could get your birth time. Given the fact that all sources, certainly qualified, with whom I contacted since then unaware of this fundamental fact, I have come to the conclusion that the time of birth, most likely, may have been deliberately hidden. In response, the main purpose of the work has been to try to reach a Rasi Chakra (wheel of signs = chart) possible and probable, under the outstanding personal characteristics and some important events that had experience both in their worldly life and in the stage of spiritual consecration.

On what is no doubt that this being so singular, whose name was Priyanath Karar profane, born a May 10, 1855, in the frown of a middle class family in the town of Serampore, 15 km north Calcutta, in Bengal, India (88E20 ', 20N45'), the son of Kshetranath Karar and Kadambini. These data are provided only in "Autobiography of a Yogi", by Paramahansa Yogananda his beloved disciple, but Swami Satyananda Giri confirms in writing the biography of his master. Also, both realize that their jñanagurudev left this plane consciously mahasamadhi by the March 9, 1936, about 19hs, at the age of 80.87 years.



SIGNIFICANT EVENTS OF ITS EXISTENCE

I n his biography informs us that Priyanath Kshetranath lost his father when he was a child, looking for it during his adolescence in the obligation to assume important responsibilities in the management of family properties. From childhood he was an outstanding student, passed the entrance examinations to the Christian Missionary School of Serampore, where to make contact with the Bible would awaken interest in the figure of Christ Jesus. General medicine, and physiology in particular, were passionate about matters that the reasons for attending medical school in Calcutta. After graduating Priyanath married and had a daughter. His wife died a few years after getting married, why stop living with her ​​daughter to join the monastic order of the Swamis.

At 29 years, in 1884, Priyanath made ​​contact with Benares Lahiri Mahasaya, who was adopted as personnel guru, starting the path of kriya yoga under his tutelage in the field Giri, one of ten branches of the ancient order of monks Swamis . Priyanath spent several years with his teacher and, after he stopped living with him, visiting him regularly followed in the holy Varanasi. From then on be known as Yukteswar (means "united to Ishwara," one of the names of God).

Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri in his youth.

In 1894 while attending the Kumbha Mela in Allahabad, a festival to be held every twelve years where yogis gather from all over India, met his guru Mahavatar Babaji param-teacher of his teacher. Seeing the interest in the Bible Yukteswar, Babaji suggested he write a book summarizing more harmoniously the spiritual principles relevant legacies in the Bible with the philosophy behind yoga conceptually. At that meeting, Babaji went several times to him with the title of Swami Yukteswar understood this as a tribute to his spiritual advancement, and assuming its height, adopted it since. During that year, as mandated by Babaji, wrote the book titled commissioned which Darsanam Kaivalya (teaching only), currently published in Spanish with the title "Sacred Science" (see bibliography). In the introduction, Swami Sri Yukteswar wrote:
"The purpose of this book is to show as clearly as possible that there is an essential unity in all religions, there is no difference between the truths expressed by the various beliefs, there is only one method of changing the world (both external and internal) and there is only one goal, supported by all the scriptures. "
Swami Sri Yukteswar having assumed its role in the chain of teachers to which he belonged became his great two-story family home in an ashram in Serampore he called Priya Dham, which means "the abode of the beloved." There lived a small and select group of young chelas (disciples) of the city which led them in their spiritual journey. In 1903 he founded a second ashram in the city of Puri, on the shores of the Indian Ocean, about 482 km southwest of Calcutta, which he called Karar Ashram. In these two ashrams Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri taught his students, and that was how he began to develop an organization that calling Sadhu Sabha finally ended (meeting wise).

Ashram in Serampore family home.

His interest in education led him to develop a school program, with physics, physiology, geography, astronomy and astrology at the time cutting edge. He also wrote a book in Bengali and Hindi to learn basic English simply titled "First Book". Swami Sri Yukteswar was an expert in Jyotish (Vedic astrology), so that all students had used astrological gemstones and bangles, among many other therapeutic measures to counteract the adverse influence that indicated the same. This explains the fact that he has also written a basic book on the subject called Jyotish. It also always been interested in astronomy, as demonstrated by the petition of his theory of the Yugas (ages or ages) that develops in the first part of his aforementioned book "The Holy Science".

In 1910 Swami Sri Yukteswar met the young Mukunda Lal Ghosh in Calcutta, who later became his pupil better known as Paramahansa Yogananda, assuming the mission entrusted by his master to propagate the doctrine of kriya yoga all over the world.

In his book "Autobiography of a Yogi" Yogananda describes his teacher Swami Sri Yukteswar as a Jnana-avatar, thus indicating that it was an incarnation of wisdom. Its severity, and high standards, made most of his disciples abandoned him a few years together. At this Yogananda attributed the small number of disciples around his master by the strict methods of training which, according to textual words he "could not describe rather than dramatic."

He presented so far gives us a summary idea of the most outstanding features of the personality of Swami Sri Yukteswar, and of some most relevant dates and periods of its existence, and from there to arrive home at a time, resulting in a Rasi Chakra that is representative of the temporal manifestation of his Soul.


ASSESSMENT IN astrality
BIRTHDAY Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri

When looking to arrive at an estimated time of birth knowing only the date on which delivery occurs imposed evaluate the sky for when to begin and end the day. Since the so-called "day Vedic" extending from one sunrise to the next, and not from midnight to midnight as follows in the Western calendar, presented the Rasi Chakra dawn beginning May 10, 1855 and the beginning the next day, this time ending on the day he was born Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri.


As can be seen, in both representations of heaven for when that dawn on 10 and 11 May the Rasi Chakra is unchanged in the leading indicators, not the Navamsa (ninth divisional chart, see article: "Interpretation of the Navamsa Letter " ).

Given this has to address the transit of the Moon along the navamsas juxtaposed to the padas (quarters 3 ° 20 ') fall within the nakshatras where it travels during the time interval between one sunrise to another. For the start of the day he was born Sri Yukteswar the Moon was located at 7 ° 39 'Aquarius, at 0 ° 59' of the nakshatra Satabishak in his first sword. At the time of the end or, which is, following Vedic day begins, the Moon is 22 ° 00 'Aquarius, 2 ° 00' of the nakshatra Poorvabhadra in his first sword. This leads us to consider the indications of both characterological and destinales nakshatras and nuances settled by the case mix for each of the padas contained therein. In summary, it has traveled by observing the moon from 7 ° 39 'to 22 ° 00' Aquarius in the way understood 5:02:41 temporarily between May 10 Day and 5:02:09 of next day.

Varuna, the deity of nakshatra Satabishak

The first nakshatra where the Moon is transiting Satabishak, also known as Shatataraka. The mythical deity associated with it is Varuna, god of waters, particularly the ocean, the cosmic and moral law, is one of the Aditya or Vedic and celestial personifications of the eight Vasu so personifications of natural elements. As guardian of the rite and the cosmic law should be imposed by a severe character. Usually depicted riding a sea monster or crocodile. The latter is a representation of the destructive forces that threaten human integrity. Varuna mounted on it is your domain, dressage through, making it a server to ultimately fulfill its mission.

Many of the features described are emparentan perfectly with the features of severity that Yogananda tells us about his teacher, and the interest thereof by the laws governing the universe. From there his interest in astrology and astronomy in mentioned above. This nakshatra has an orientation toward the dharma or right action. The observations show that in this nakshatra dominate with his Moon here astrologers, astronomers, physicists, healers, writers and researchers.


Ajaikapada, Poorvabadra nakshatra deity.

The second nakshatra where the Moon is transiting Poorvabadra. This is linked to the mythical deity Ajaikapada, related to Shiva in his role as destroyer Rudra or form. Naturally this is a far cry from the imprint characterological Yukteswar, but even if we consider their influence directed towards artha (acquisition). Here the casuistic reports on the existence of his Moon here astrologers, occultists, magicians, administrators and businessmen, but not anything related to research, writings and other materials listed in the previous nakshatra. Proof of the points made here is a comment that makes Yogananda on his teacher.
"Out of my teacher read scriptures very rarely. However, it was invariably aware of the latest discovery of science, and other advances in knowledge. "
The astrologer Bepin Behari further instructs us on the evolutionary direction of these two nakshatras. He argues that when it dominates the higher the nakshatra Satabishak once transcended the psychological pain, induces fusion with the universal mind, while for the case of Poorvabadra, if given the same orientation gives boldness, provided that it has transcended the anguish and grief own anxieties generated by the atavism materials. There is no doubt that from this point of view again is the first and the second nakshatra which best corresponds to the two distinct phases existential Yukteswar. He must go through the psychological pain of the early deaths of his father, wife and daughter, as the latter died at the time of their marriage at a young age, then do take a spiritual path of absolute dedication once started in the branch Giri of the Swamis.

Having defined the nakshatra Satabishak as containing his natal Moon the inquiry to establish the location is reduced to an arc extending from 7 ° 39 'to 20 ° 00' Aquarius. The padas, or quarters contained therein are juxtaposed to the following four navamsas, leaving the first turn contained within the first decanate, while the remaining three matches the second. There are critical years indicated by the navamsas and significant years of deanship. These are detailed below:  

Sagittarius Navamsa: 6 ° 40 'to 10 ° 00' Aquarius, in the first decanate:
Significant year for the first dean: 16, 24, 25, 29, 35, 46 and 57.
Significant year for Sagittarius Navamsa, first pada: 4, 9, 16, 36, 44, 76.  

Capricorn Navamsa: 10 ° 00 'to 13 ° 20' Aquarius, in the second decanate:
Significant years for second decanate: 15, 26, 27, 37, 38, 51, 58, 59 and 67.
Capricorn Navamsa significant years for second pada: 19, 27, 34, 49, 54, 68.  

Aquarius Navamsa: 13 ° 20 'to 16 ° 40' Aquarius, in the second decanate:
Significant years for second decanate: Same as above.
Aquarius Navamsa significant years for third pada: 7, 14, 20, 28, 32, 61.  

Pisces Navamsa: 16 ° 40 'to 20 ° 00 Aquarius, in the second decanate:
Significant years for second decanate: Same as above.
Significant years for Pisces Navamsa, fourth pada: 10, 12, 21, 26, 52, 61.

From the above indicated significant years are highlighted mainly by Capricorn Navamsa coinciding with the second pada of Satabishak, in the second decanate of Aquarius.  

28/29 years: It is initiated by his master Lahiri Mahasaya of Benares, who adopted as personnel guru, starting the path of kriya yoga under his tutelage in the Giri branch of the order of monks Swamis. This event would be the one indicated by the first pada, but Please kindly note that in this lies nothing more and nothing less than Jupiter 7 ° 16 'Aquarius, the planet representing the guru or spiritual master, which symbolically closes perfectly.  

38/39 years: He has his first meeting with Babaji and writes the book he instructs. Indicated by the second dean. This fact is central and is related to the ratio that will later with Yogananda.  

48/49 years: Build and founded a second ashram in the city of Puri. Indicated by the second pada, in the second decanate.  

54/55 years: Meet the disciple Babaji promised to send him to spread the Yoga in the West: Mukunda Lal Gosh, who would later be given the monastic name of Paramahansa Yogananda. Indicated by the second pada, in the second decanate.

KT Shubakaran in his remarkable, and certainly recommended work "Nakshatra Based Predictions" Beyond, raise, among several other things, generally those born in Satabishaka have an aristocratic air, and intelligence that distinguishes outstanding above all others, specifically for when the Moon is placed in the second pada (10 ° 00 'to 13 ° 20' Aquarius) of this nakshatra reads as follows:
"This position of the Moon makes the native a renowned astrologer. Unlike born in the first quarter, the native will have only one wife, this being devout love it ... you should take care to its 28 years ... "
It is interesting to see how the casuistry ends up confirming what was observed here. Thus defining the position of the moon in this sword, because then the time interval is reduced significantly from the initial uncertainty as the Moon enters the same at 10:48 AM and leaves at 16:03 PM. Within the time interval of 15 minutes can be 5hs with Ascendant in Cancer, Leo or Virgo, along which are juxtaposed the nakshatras Ashlesha, Magha, Purvafalgunhi, Uttarafalgunhi, Hasatha and Chitra as potential sub-sectors of 13 ° 20 'where located. Despite the diversity of possibilities, the conspicuous appearance lion seems to leave little doubt about the Ascendant sign.

Yogananda called this picture "The Lion of Bengal"

In this regard it is interesting what the writer says WY Evans-Wentz as he describes his impression of the character and appearance of Sri Yukteswar in the preface to his "Autobiography of a Yogi" by Yogananda:
"Sri Yukteswar had a poise and a nice voice, nice presence, and worthy of veneration that his followers offered spontaneously. All who knew him, both his own community and others, held him in high esteem. I vividly recall his tall, erect and ascetic, dressed in the saffron robes of monks resigning at the entrance of the ashram to welcome me. His hair was rather long and wavy, and had a beard. His body was strong and athletic but slender and well formed, and walked with energy. "
This description largely confirms the potential of the Ascendant lion. This closes perfectly with the native sky, as Jupiter and Moon are in seventh house, Gaja-Kesari forming a yoga, aspecting the first house. This yoga (link) gives great strength and alertness while fosters empathy with the public, it being remembered by the natives after his departure from this world. The house is a turn in trikona to the exalted position of the sun in ninth house (house of God, the father and guru), coexisting in the same house with Mars, Mercury and Rahu (North Node), leaving all evidence linking a spiritual order of the first magnitude. Mars as ruler of fourth house (Scorpio) and nine (Aries) from the Ascendant Leo Yogakaraka acquires that status, at home nine, joined the Sun as ruler of a house (Leo), form one of the Raja Yogas (royal marriages) more powerful than can be found since, as stated, are highly dignified. This becomes outstanding because the Sun is its Atmakaraka (maximum length planet by sign) or personal significator Soul. The appearance, moral strength and physical energy to the terms WY Evans-Wentz explained in the temporary setting only the union of these two planets mutually gravitate friends on the Ascendant.

Now in Leo is to define the nakshatra where you can have located the Ascendant. Leo develop within the four padas of Magha (120 ° 00 'to 133 ° 20') and Purvafalgunhi (133 ° 20 'to 146 ° 40'), and the first pada of Uttarafalgunhi (146 ° 40 'to 150 * 00 '). The deities or mythical references associated with these nakshatras are the Pitris, Bhaga and Aryaman, respectively, while the most significant stars contained in each are Ro Leonis (Regulus), Delta Leonis and beta Leonis (Denebola) in order of appearance. This and the cumulative case mix for each of them has led me to decide by Magha, the first of it which extends from 00 ° 00 'to 13 ° 20' Leo.

In this environment, smaller and time using the method based Nadi and Antartattwas Tattvas and the Kunda for accuracy, arrived at 12:12:39 pm. By this time, Hari Chandra ayanamsa by the sidereal ascendant is located 6 ° 48 'Leo, in the Navamsa of Gemini. Carried tropic length is the same at 29 ° 22 'of the same sign. This will assess the symbolic images given by Charubel, by way of verification, both in length tropic and sidereal, as they used to do Don Carmelo Silva and several of his students and close colleagues among whom was Dr. Brosig:

Symbolic image for the Ascendant Sayana (tropical) - Grade 30:
"A wise old man sitting next to a nightstand and studying a difficult problem. This points to someone who has a deep intellect, strong will and a mature judgment. Someone who is really a magician. "
Symbolic image for the Ascendant Nirayana (sidereal) - Grade 7:
"A pyramid-shaped figure with a Maltese cross at its apex or top. This is a glorious degree as there is hardly another in the zodiac. From a beam of light from a sun top, metaphysical, one of those suns which together with our move around the Central Sun. Means the greatest good, the sublime, with prophetic inspirations, governs how wonderful and fills the soul of a brand of heavenly glory. This grade has an affinity with 7 ° Libra. "
I could not find within the sign Leo, both in tropics and in sidereal descriptions based on symbolic images closer to the magnitude of the figure of Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri. So I will explain below then the Rasi Chakra likely this be exceptional, eclectic rectified by the integration of various synthetic instrumental resources:




Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri left this plane consciously mahasamadhi by the March 9, 1936. But that is topic for another story, which surely will be grounds to face a future inquiry ...



References:

"Autobiographical of a Yogi" by Paramahansa Yogananda.
Editorial Kier. Buenos Aires, Argentina.

"The Holy Science", Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri.
Editorial Kier. Buenos Aires, Argentina.

"Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri Maharaj," Swami Satyananda Giri.
Yoga Niketan editions. London, UK.  

"Myths and Symbols of Vedic Astrology" Bepin Behari.
Sagar Publications. New Delhi, India.

"Nakshatra Based Predictions", KT Shubakaran.
Sagar Publications. New Delhi, India.




© 2012 Architect Paul M. Mauro

============================

#64462 From: Sreenadh OG <sreesog@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:46 am
Subject: ASSESSMENTS ON Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri ASTROLOGY
sreesog
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Source: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://jyotishashastra.blogspot.com/2012/03/apresiaciones-de-swami-sri-yukteswar.html
======================

ASSESSMENTS ON Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri ASTROLOGY



Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri (1855-1936).

In the sixteenth chapter of the book "Autobiography of a Yogi" by Paramahansa Yogananda presents a very interesting dialogue with his teacher Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri on the universal principles upon which rests the astrological influence and possible neutralization, or at least reducing, symbolized by the effects thereof. Here I present only a few passages of particular interest. The dialogue between teacher and pupil begins:


- Mukunda, why do not you get an astrological bangle?.

- What, I do, Master? I do not believe in astrology.

- It's not about belief, the only scientific attitude to be taken on anything is to see if this is true. The law of gravity operated so effectively before Newton as after him. The cosmos would be in a very chaotic situation, if the laws could not operate without the sanction of human belief.

Charlatans have brought the stellar science to its present disrepute. Astrology is extensive, both mathematical and filosficamente1, and can not be properly absorbed, except by men of profound understanding. The ignorant can not read the heavens, and go there instead of just scribbling a script, as expected in this imperfect world. But one should not dismiss the wisdom with the wise. All parts of creation are linked together and interchange their influences. The balanced rhythm of the universe is based on reciprocity, continued my master-:

The man, in his human aspect, has to fight two kinds of forces: first, the tumults of his inner being, caused by the mixture of earth, water, fire, air and ether elements, and second, the disintegrating external powers of nature. So long as man struggling with his mortality, will be affected by the myriad mutations of heaven and earth.

Astrology is the study of human response to global stimulus. The stars have no conscious benevolence or animosity; radiation they send only positive or negative. They do not help or harm humanity, but I offer an appropriate channel for operation outside of the balance of cause and effect in the past has been set in motion by man.

A child born on that day and at such time, because the celestial rays are in mathematical harmony with his individual karma. His horoscope is a map demonstrative of his unalterable past and probable future results. But the natal chart can be rightly interpreted only by men of intuitive wisdom, and these are very few.

The message emblazoned the widely across the sky, at the time of birth, does not mean an emphasis on the fate or destiny as a result of a past good or bad, but serves to elevate the will of man, so you can escape the universal slavery . What he did can override. No one but he was the instigator of the causes whose effects are currently experiencing in your life. He can overcome any limitation, because he himself has created by its own facts, and because he possesses spiritual resources that are not subject to planetary influences.

The superstitious fear in astrology unfortunately makes us automatons dependent on a mechanical guide.

The wise man defeats his planets, or whatever it is, his past, transferring their allegiance from the creation to the Creator. The more you do with the spirit unity, less may be dominated by matter. The soul is always free, not subject to death, because he has no birth. It can not be ruled by the stars.

The man is a soul and has a body. When he realizes properly, identity, leaves behind all compulsive brackets. While he remains confused in his ordinary state of spiritual amnesia, you need to know the subtle fetters of the law in their environment.

God is harmony, the devotee who is in harmony, never run an unbalanced action. Its activities will be adjusted correctly and naturally according to the astrological law. After prayer and deep meditation is in contact with the divine consciousness, there is no power greater than that of domestic protection.


Paramahansa Yogananda with his guru, Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri.

- Then, dear Master, why do you want me to wear an astrological bangle?.

-I dared to venture this question after a long silence during which he had been trying to assimilate the noble exhibition of Sri Yukteswar.

- Only when the traveler has reached the end of your trip can dispense with their maps and itineraries. During the trip, makes use of all indications. The ancient rishis discovered many ways to shorten the period of exile of the man in error. There are certain mechanical devices in the law of karma which can be skillfully adjusted by the fingers of wisdom.

All human ills are caused by the violation of some universal law. The scriptures teach us that man must comply with those laws of nature without impairing the divine omnipotence. It should say: "Lord, I believe in you and know that you can help me, but I'll also do my part to undo any wrong he has committed." And so, with different means, through prayer, strength of will, by means of meditation according to Yoga, by consultation with saints, by use of astrological bangles, adverse effects of past actions can be substantially reduced or canceled altogether.

In the same way that a house can be equipped with a copper lightning rod to absorb the shock, so the bodily temple can be benefited by various protective measures. In the past, our yogis discovered that pure metals emit an astral light, which works mightily against the negative trends of the planets. Radiation subtle electrical and magnetic are constantly circulating in the universe, when the man's body is benefiting not given it consideration, when it is being broken does not know ...


I suggest the interested reader to access the complete reading of this chapter, no doubt, will be of great benefit (download here: "Mastering the influence of the Stars" ). Seldom have I been able to find an explanation as clear synthesis of the rationale underpinning conceptually, from a viewpoint esoteric astrological indicators.



OM TAT SAT



2012 Architect Paul M. Mauro

======================

#64477 From: Hari Malla <harimalla@...>
Date: Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:28 am
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
harimalla...
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Dear Harsha Indrasenji,
Thank you for the quory. Yes, sure, in the practical sense you are right. But the coordination is overdue at the present. The reason being the shift of tropical vernal equinox from the Chaitra purima zone to Falgun purnima zone has already occurred long back when the ayanmsha crossed 15 degrees and now has reached 9 degrees ( 24- 15=9 degrees) extra. Our sun-moon coordinated system which uses the adhimas for the control of lunar seasons, keeps the sidereal vernal equinox (ie sidereal Mesh sankranti)  at the middle of the fluctuation zone of Chaitra purnima which is accepted as the lunar vernal equinox,  in the dharmashastras even to this day. I believe the Thervada Buddhists keep the new year as Chaitra purnima, for this reason only...
In the great Swayambhu stupa  of Kathmandu, there is also a special festivals at this time. It is  also said that the stupa was established at this time of Chaitra purima. I have also read that Buddha has asked the stupas to be built at the 'Cross road'. By this 'cross road' I am understanding it to be Vernal equinox. It is at the vernal equinox, when we have the north south directional movement of the earth in space and the east west movement direction of the moon in space occurring at around 90 degrees. This means the north, south, east,and  west direction matches in the way,  we are used to on the earth surface.
If we multiply 9 by 72 years then we arrive at the time when the shift of lunar veral equiox should have already been done.as 648 years ago. This means the correction or shift of lunar vernal equionx should have already ben done in the 14th century AD. At that time, the sidereal solar vernal equinox also should have been shfted to th epresent Meen sankranti.
Thus the present shift is already overdue long back. I even feel the Moslem and the British domination of the Indian subcontinent was due to this reason, since the celebration of fetivals at the wrong time had weakend the inhabitntas of Bharat varsha, morally.
Thank you for bearing with me.
Hari Malla
--- On Thu, 4/12/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@...> wrote:

From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@...>
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
To: "Hari Malla" <harimalla@...>
Date: Thursday, April 12, 2012, 5:59 PM


Dear Mr. Hari Malla,

 

Since we are yet to shift the zodiac to the proposed coordinated position am I correct if I say at present (or in 1900AD), coordinated zodiac and sidereal zodiac overlap. This is because we are still following the festival calendar coordinated by Varahamihira who shifted nirayana uttarayana from dhanishta to makara zero. Therefore coordinated ayanamsha at present (or in 1900AD) is around +24. Once we shift the zodiac from current position, the coordinated ayanamsha becomes -6.

 With regards Harsha Indrase

On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 2:04 PM, Hari Malla <harimalla@...> wrote:
Dear Harsha Indrasenji,
Thank you for the careful analysis of the coordinated ayanamsha issue. I feel the absolute sidereal ayanamsha cannot be entertained for long. The reason is there is no direct effect of the individual stars upon us whatsoever. They only act as the fixed references for the sun,  moon and the other planets including Rahu and Ketu. This is also clarified by the fact that the same zodiac becomes all the 12 houses for people born with the different lagans or rashi kundali. Thus the stars themselves have no particular effect upon us. Thus to attribute any special quality to a certain group of stars independantly for all the time is unthinkable. They are only reflecting the effects of the sun, the moon or the axial relationship with the earth for the manawantar or the sidereal period of 2150 years,.  This period is the  period over which a certain star group can have the so called sidereal quality, which though is actually the reflected qualities from the sun, moon and the earth axis relationship.

<2)      Please define the coordinated ayanamsha as a formula. Is it like: Coordinated ayanamsha = Tropical Aries Zero - Coordinated Aries zero>
I think if the present ayansmha is taken psoitve as (+24) then  the coordinated reformed ayanamsha becomes minus six (-6) at the present.  The ayanamsha then varies from - -6 to +15 degrees, this time of reform. When the reform occurrs in future, in the beginning it is -15, then in about 1000 years, it comes to zero and then it becomes positive and reaches upto + 15 in about another 1000 years. Then the zero point is shifted by 30 dgrees when the reformed ayanamsha suddenly changes to -15 etc.
Please improve the ssytem, mathematically after understnding what I am trying to say. Thanks and
Regards,
Hari Malla

--- On Thu, 4/12/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@...> wrote:

From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@...>
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
To: "Hari Malla" <harimalla@...>
Date: Thursday, April 12, 2012, 6:07 AM


Dear Mr. Hari Malla,

 

1)      Do you recommend the sidereal astrologers to use coordinated zodiac in phalit work? I think sidereal astrologers should continue to use sidereal zodiac for phalit work.

2)      Please define the coordinated ayanamsha as a formula.

 

Is it like

 

Coordinated ayanamsha = Tropical Aries Zero - Coordinated Aries zero

 

If so the coordinated ayanamsha will fluctuate between +15 to -15.

 With regards Harsha Indrasena

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 8:37 AM, Hari Malla <harimalla@...> wrote:
Dear Harsha Indrasenji,
Thank you for your reply, I think you are quite clear in your opinion and very careful too.
The coordinated ayanamsha is for those who believe in astrology with the effects of the other five planets.. It is just a compromise with the astrologers who insists upon the reality of the effects of these planets, since this idea has been used for thousands of year, although with a misudnerstanding.  Just not to go against this tradition, I do not mind the use of ayanamsha in sidereal predictive calculations.
The coordinated system is the periodic shift of the zero point of ayanamsha so that the coordination of the sidereal and tropicial  relationship is never lost. Talking in terms of justification of the coordination which is different from the use of ayanmsha,i would like to say the following.
1. Ayanamsha is minor adjustment within one particular age where as coordination is major adjustment over the ages when the zero point of ayanmsha is shifted by 30 degreees at a time. Ayanamsha is thus limited to plus and minus 15 degrees at  each age.
1. Lagan kundali is based on daily rotational movement of the earth which centers upon the pole point, Thus it is tropical based. The chandra rashi kundali is based upon the monthly revolutonary motion of the moon around the earth.
2. These two motions must be coordinated with respect to each other so the  two view points can salvage the truth from both these two view points. These two view points are connected to our five senses( lagan kundali) and the intellect or mind (chandra rashi kundali). Since the five senses and the mind is both within the same person, they must as a first necessity be coordinated or harmonised so that the person is a integreted or a sane person. Please know that the earth takes these two motions as the daily rotation and the monthly wobble too. I hope you know about the monthly motion of the earth produced by the gravitational influences of the mooon. The moon and the earth core are said to go around the common earth-moon barycenter every month. The  earth axis and the monthly earth wobble both being executed by the same earth possess, has as a necessity, a natural coordination, without doubt.
3. Here we have to have a different definition of the sidereal coordinate.The sidereal cordinates is or should be just the mean position of the lunar fluctuation of one month due to adhimas ineah age. This midpoint of monthly motion of the full moon over the stars is also well depicted by the nomenclature system of the lunar months and the related nakshyatras. The full moon of Falgun fluctuates over the two nakshyatras of purva falguni and uttara falguni nakshyatras. Thus Meen sankranti is 180 degrees to the boundary beween these two nakshytras aproximately. Mesh sankranti is 180 degrees to the mid point of chitra nakshyatras, Chaitra full moon flucutating between two padas each of Hasta and Swati with Chitra nakshtyras at its midddle.. Thus we can define the mesh sankranti as the mid point of the Chaitra purnima or the equinoctical purnima fluctuation zone.
Here we are giving more importance to the lunar month rather than the solar sankrantis. The reason is lunar months are natural months but the sankrantis like mesh sankranti  are arbitrary 30 degres demarcation made by Man. If we understand this fact then we should not have the problem of shifting the zero point of ayansmha as the sankrantis whenever we shift the full moon zones and keeping the zero point as the mean postion of the fluctuation zone of he full moon.
Of coure, in the above analysis we are taking for granted that the stars by themselves have no effect upon us ( for our precidictive purpose) except as fixed incdicators or reference points in space for teh sun adn the moon..
 I guess, I have given a different out look than genearally accepted by the astrologers. they think the strs are primary effectors which is not acutally true. these stars are efeatgors only as the fixed references of the effects of the sun and the moon. Plese ask where i ahvenotbeen clear. Thank you,
Hari malla
 
 
 
 
--- On Tue, 4/10/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@...> wrote:

From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@...>
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
To: "Hari Malla" <harimalla@...>
Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 2:45 PM


Dear Mr. Hari Malla,

 

He may use the ayanamsha of his choice, i.e. Yukteshwar. The Yukteshwar ayanamsha on 1st Jan 1900 is 21° 04' 56".

 

If he wants the Coordinated longitudes of Sun, Moon and Stars for the purpose of calendar reform he can use the following formula:

Coordinated longitude = (Tropical longitude – Yukteshwar Ayanamsha) + 30°

 

If he calculates sidereal longitudes directly he can use the following formula:

Coordinated longitude = Sidereal longitude + 30°

 

Since Coordinated calendar reform is interested only in festivals, there is no need of defining a coordinated ayanamsha. Apart from sun, moon and stars I do not think coordinated system is interested in other five planets.

 

I went through the files section again in Parvasudhar group, but could not find much weight given to Ayanamsha. Exact ayanamsha is not necessary in Moon based coordinated calendar since shift of zodiac is done every 2160 years and there is a wide fluctuation zone to the Moon. In that sense Coordinated calendar seems to be simpler and superior to sidereal calendar.

 

My understanding is that Coordinated system is not for predictive astrology; it has been proposed to correct timing of religious festivals. This differs vastly from the other two systems proposed, i.e. Tropical and Sidereal calendar. It looks like to me that the latter two systems are mainly interested in maintaining astrology rather than religion. I make this conclusion based on what you have said about astrology from the religious point of view. There is no need to sacrifice religion to the stars by maintain sidereal zodiac in festival calendar. But sidereal zodiac still has its place in predictive astrology, which I also follow.

 

I may be wrong. Please give your comments so that I could understand coordinated system better. No need to take this as a conclusion but rather the beginning of a discussion.

 With regards Harsha Indrasena

On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 8:43 AM, Hari Malla <harimalla@...> wrote:
Dear Harsha indrasenji,
Thank you indeed for working out the formula for the coordinated, tropical and sidereal coordinates.
Kindly also give the value of your coordinated Dularaka ayanamsha to  Rohiniji of 01-01-1900, as he desires!  Thank you for the cooperation.

Hari Malla.
--- On Tue, 4/10/12, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@...> wrote:

From: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@...>
Subject: Fw: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
To: JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 2:23 AM


 
Hari_ji,

I am still waiting for the ayanamsha value of 01-01-1900!

Recent History seems to be repeating itself... ;-)

Once again...!

Regards,

RR_,

--- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, "hari" <harimalla@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Raj Raoji and Rohiniji,
> If it interests you to use coordinated longitude, Harsh Indrasenji has
> supplied the formula for the reepctive coordinates. I feel he is quick in mathemtics. No?
> regards,
> Hari Malla
>
>
>
> --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Hari Malla <harimalla@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Mon, 4/9/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@>
> > Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
> > To: "Hari Malla" <harimalla@>
> > Date: Monday, April 9, 2012, 5:23 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Mr. Hari Malla,
> >  
> > Thank you.
> >  
> > <I am happy to hear that the referring to the coordinated Dularaka ayanamsha VE is at 5°23'37" (coordinated) Aries. I wonder what will be the prediction on this basis of ayanamsha, other things remaining the same.>
> >  
> > C- Coordinated longitude
> > S- Sidereal longitude
> > T- Tropical longitude
> > Ay â€" Ayanamsha (You may use whatever ayanamsha of your choice)
> >  
> > C = S + 30°
> > S = T â€" Ay
> > Therefore
> > C = (T â€" Ay) + 30°
> >  
> > There will be little effect on predictions based on transits, directions and inter-planetary aspects that are used in Western astrology.
> >  
> > Sidereal astrologers can convert coordinated longitudes to Sidereal longitudes simply by subtracting one sign from coordinated longitudes (S = C - 30°) and use accordingly.
> >  
> > <I feel the other five planets apart from the sun, the moon and Rahu ketu are misrepresented.>
> >  
> > Whatever it is astrology is not the path to Nirvana. I think the teaching is similar in Hinduism. Therefore it is better not believe in astrology.
> >  With regards Harsha Indrasena
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 7:36 PM, Hari Malla <harimalla@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Harsha Indrasenji,
> > Thank you indeed for your carefully thought out reply.
> > 1.Transferring the geocentric sidereal parameter to the hlocenteric one, we add the speed of the sun to the speed of the nakshyatras. This I feel is Yoga and is the ultimate goal of practising astroloogy is to achieve this too, in the mind. I have read in Bhratiya Jyotish that Parashar too has expressd this opinion that the astrologers shoulod try to go to Brahmahlok in the end. In SS, we read that at the end after educating Maya danava on astronomy, Suryamsha Purush ultimately goes to the orb of the sun, which in my view means the transfer of the geocentric center to the heliocentric one..
> > 2. May I please know the scientific explanation attributed to the proper motion of the stars as you have mentioned.. Is it the rotation of the galaxy?
> >  
> > 3 Thank you for acceptig my defintion of Kalpa. This definiton is concluded from the mention in the Bhagvatam of Dhruva (pole point) having two sons- Vatsar ( the year, orbit of the earth) and Kalpa (the great year, precession of the equinoxes).
> >  
> > 4. I am happy to hear that the referring to the coordinated Dularaka ayanamsha VE is at 5°23'37" (coordinated) Aries. I wonder what will be the predicton on this basis of ayanamsha, other things remaining the same.
> > Although I do not believe prediction can predict 100 percent, but I do not rule out the possiblity of prediction success of about 60 percent. I feel the other five planets apart from the sun, the moon and Rahu ketu are misrepresented.
> > Thank you again, for your support as well as educating me in certain aspects of astronomy. .
> > Hari Malla
> >
> >  
> >  
> > --- On Thu, 4/5/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@>
> > Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
> > To: "Hari Malla" <harimalla@>
> > Date: Thursday, April 5, 2012, 7:18 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Mr. Hari Malla,
> >  
> > 1) <I request you to confirm that the sidereal zodiac though composed of 12 equal parts in empty space is centered at the sun.>
> >  
> > Zodiac is situated round the ecliptic, extending 8-9° north or south of the ecliptic, in the celestial sphere. This means zodiac is situated in infinity. Therefore the distance between the Sun and the Earth is negligible when compared with the distance to the Zodiac.
> >  
> > Therefore we can use the same zodiac in both heliocentric and geocentric versions. In heliocentric version, the zodiac is centered at Sun. In geocentric version, the zodiac is centered at Earth. But both versions refer to one and the same zodiac. Therefore what you say is correct.
> >  
> > 2) <I am sure you will agree that the shift of stars in one Kalpa of 25,800 years is quite negligible.>
> >  
> > No.
> >  
> > Days, months, years and several billion years in my mail refer to changing signs of heavenly bodies (both planets and stars).
> >  
> > We cannot ignore the proper motion of planets in one Kalpa for the stars that are closer to us.
> >  
> > Proper motion was suspected by early astronomers (according to Macrobius, AD 400) but proof was provided in 1718 by Edmund Halley, who noticed that Sirius, Arcturus and Aldebaran were over half a degree away from the positions charted by the ancient Greek astronomer Hipparchus roughly 1850 years earlier.[23]
> >  
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_motion
> >  
> > Proper motion of stars is important when one defines the zodiac. Therefore if we always fix Shaula at 0deg Sag or Aldebaren at 15deg Taurus, even the sidereal zodiac will keep moving over years.
> >  
> > 3) <By the way do you agree with the 25,800 years figure for one Kalpa or cycle of precession?>
> >  
> > That depends on how we define Kalpa. This is your definition and it is acceptable to me.
> >  
> > 4) I would also request you to kindly send your present value of Dulakara ayanamsha.
> >  
> > 24°36'23"
> >  
> > If we shift the zero point of ayanamsha by 30 degrees for the sake of coordination, what will be the new reformed value of Dulakara ayanamsha?
> >  
> > VE is at 5°23'37" (coordinated) Aries.
> >  
> > Thank you.
> > Harsha Indrasena
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 8:06 AM, Hari Malla <harimalla@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Harsha Indrasenji,
> >
> > Thank you for your reply. I am impressed by your thorough knowledge of astronomy.
> > I liked your following expresion too..
> >
> > <Sidereal zodiac is fixed. Its background is empty. It is just 12 equal parts in sky. It is not composed of stars. Planets move rapidly over days, months and years, and stars move very very slowly over millions and billions of years across it.>
> > I request you to confirm that siereal zodiacs though composed of 12 equal parts in empty space is centered at the sun. I would like to add, 'when we consider the sun at the center of the circle of zodiac stars, it is the highest experience man can have. He bcomes a Buddha! This is what SS says. This is what our panchangas says, when we add the speed of nakshytras( meaning moon) to the speed of the sun( meaning the earth inits orbit), then we get Yoga. This Yoga is Buddhahood the reltionship of the sun to the stars, in its pratically static postion.
> > I say 'practically' because, if negligibly moving in one hundered life times or generation  for we living creatures,  is surely practicaly fixed. One hundered lifetime is say about 10,000 years. And a peiod of 10,000 years inhistory is already prehistoric by human standards and its civilisation. Stars moving over millions and billions of years is not connected with our eye vision and our civilisatio, since we live only for 100 years and  history of our civilisation  is not more than 5,000 to 10 000 years. Our human experience of static nature is quite limited and also eternity. Our life and death is surely trancscended in one life time by a Budha. and if not in one lifetime then surely in a hundered lifetimes by other humans. So much for human philosophy and end of rebirths of one person.
> > Now coming to our coordinative system, we shift one rashi sankranti of 30 degrees, for coordinating the sidereal and the tropical zodiacs about every 2,150 years. This is one manawantar of 12 shifts in one Kalpa of 25,800 years, in my view. I am sure you wil agree that the shift of stars in one Kalpa of 25,800 years is quite negligible. By the way do you agree with the 25,800 years figure for one Kalpa or cycle of precession?
> > .I would also rquest you to kinldy send your present value of Dularka ayanamsha. If we shift the zero point of aynamsha by 30 degrees for the sake of coordination, what will be the new reformed value of Dularka ayanmsha?
> >  
> > Thank you for our cooperation?
> >  
> > Hari Malla
> >
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > --- On Tue, 4/3/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@>
> > Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
> > To: JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 3:20 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Mr. Hari Malla,
> >  
> > I very well agree with your philosophical views.
> >  
> > <Please note that galactic center is in no way dealt with, in our scriptures and it is meaningless to talk about it in the ancient context. This is complete misconeption to jump to conclusions and a sheer waste of time.>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sidereal Galactic center has been defined by approximating known sidereal zodiac with the event that occurred in July 1998. Without knowing approximate location of sidereal zodiac one cannot give longitudes to this point. I consider this as a rough approximation rather than the eternal truth.
> >  
> >
> >
> > <This modern concept of science has zero effect in our practical lives.>
> >
> >
> > Modern astronomy will never ever be able to find out the beginning of sidereal Aries. We must try to find out true sidereal zodiac by scrutinizing ancient wisdom. That is why astrology is a divine science.
> >  
> >
> >
> > <Thus my request to drop this associaton with muladhara chakra which is misleading. It is as misleading as to say that one manwantar is equal to 40 years.>
> >
> >
> > It is quite true that Mula or Shaula star is closer to a zero than Spica or Chitra star. But Shaula is not a good reference point because this star is located far beyond the ecliptic.  None of the planets touches this star during their course. Therefore Chitra is a better reference point than Mula star.
> >  
> >
> >
> > Other thing is that we cannot fix the longitudes of stars. Stars do move and change positions over time. We must fit the stars into nakshatras and rashis, in the same way that we do with planets, rather than fitting the nakshatras and rashis to stars.
> >  
> >
> >
> > Sidereal zodiac is fixed. Its background is empty. It is just 12 equal parts in sky. It is not composed of stars. Planets move rapidly over days, months and years, and stars move very very slowly over millions and billions of years across it.
> >                                    
> >
> >
> > With regards Harsha Indrasena
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 9:35 AM, hari <harimalla@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear all,
> > A friendly tip here. Please note that galactic center is in no way dealt with, in our scriptures and it is meaningless to talk about it in the ancient context. This is complete misconeption to jump to conclusions and a sheer waste of time.
> > This modern concept of science has zero effect in our practical lives.
> > Thus my request to drop this associaton with muladhara chakra which is misleading. It is as misleading as to say that one manwantar is equal to 40 years.
> > Also 'muladhar chakra' in my view is related to the center of the earth or earth core.
> > thank you.
> > Hari Malla
> >
> >
> > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, "sreesog" <sreesog@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Narasimha ji,
> > > I have a question/dobt. What would be the longitude of Galaxy Center
> > > when Mula star is at 0Sg0? In this case will Galaxy Center be at the
> > > middle of Mula Nakshatra or somewhere else?
> > > Also can you please include the relative longitudes of all important
> > > stars (Yoga taras) in JHora to help such researches? That could be much
> > > helpful - not only in such studies but also asserting the Vedic and
> > > Puranic astronomic statements, in some cases.
> > > Love and regards,
> > > Sreenadh
> > >
> >
> >
> > > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, "sreesog" <sreesog@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Narasimha ji, Sunil ji and All,
> > > > //> Please convey my regards to your learned friend. His words are
> > > > > meaningful.//
> > > > Yes, and definitely from those words itself it is well evidant that
> > > > those words are NOT of Chandrahari ji.
> > > > //> Galactic Center at 240 deg will make ayanamsa deviate many degrees
> > > > from
> > > > > Lahiri. BTW, this option is already supported in JHora 7.51!//
> > > > Yes, True.
> > > > //> Apart from Galactic center at 0Sg0, JHora 7.51 also includes a
> > > fixed
> > > > > star based implementation of Chandra Hari ayanamsa, where Lambda
> > > > Scorpii
> > > > > star (Shaula) is always placed at 0Sg0. Please note that Lambda
> > > > Scorpii
> > > > > star used by Chandra Hari is several degrees away from the Galactic
> > > > > Center!//
> > > > Yes, True.
> > > > //> Philosophically speaking, I too am not really convinced that 180
> > > deg
> > > > > point must be the anchor for defining ayanamsa.//
> > > > Good realization!
> > > > //> (1) Focus on Prajapati, the Creator. For example, Aldebaran (Alpha
> > > > > Tauri) can be placed at the center of Taurus in Rohini (the star
> > > owned
> > > > > by Prajapati). JHora already offers this option. The other option
> > > not
> > > > > supported by JHora yet is to place Aldebaran at the center of Rohini
> > > > > itself.
> > > > > (2) Apart from Prajapati's star, it would make sense for the
> > > > *Mooladhara
> > > > > chakra* of Kaala Purusha to be the anchor.//
> > > > I appreciate this approach. Possibly Rohini (Aldebaran) star as
> > > the
> > > > star of Brahma and Rohini Nakshatra as the Birth star of Brahma points
> > > > to the position of Aldebaran at the middle of Rohini Nakshatra itself
> > > > (and not to Aldebaran at the middle of Taurus). I have a question -
> > > Is
> > > > it not giving importance to the Nakshatra and Star of Creation/Brahma
> > > > and placing it at the middle of Rohini Nakshatra, almost exactly same
> > > as
> > > > Chandrahari's Ayanamsa? (Even though the focus of opinion and
> > > arguments
> > > > expressed may differ, the Ayanamsa value will remains almost the same
> > > in
> > > > both these cases I think. Please clarify)
> > > > //> Just because the Moola star is named "Moola", some people
> > > associate
> > > > it
> > > > > with Mooladhara chakra. That is questionable. //
> > > > True. The Vedic name for Mula is "Mula Barhis" which rather means
> > > > "the one which spins and expands, or the root of everything (present
> > > in
> > > > the universe?)". Or in other words possibly Mula Nakshatra got its
> > > name
> > > > more because of its association with Galactic Center and not because
> > > of
> > > > its association with Mula star. Even when the position of Mula star
> > > at
> > > > 0Sg0 becomes questionable the connection of Mula Nakshatra with
> > > Galactic
> > > > Center cannot be questioned. The name Mula is more connected with
> > > with
> > > > Galactic Center (of Milky way galaxy) and not to the Muladhara Chakra
> > > > concept etc which are possibly of later day origin.
> > > > Another point is that, even though philosophical perspective, and
> > > also
> > > > the available Mesopotamian horoscopes supports a Galectic Center
> > > > Ayanamsa; the results predicated by Indian astrology classics match
> > > with
> > > > the given horoscope, only when the foundations proposed by Indian
> > > > siddhantic texts and Ayanamsa based on the same are followed. (For me
> > > > Surya Siddhantic Chandrahari Ayanamsa works well in this regard; even
> > > > though I don't force the argument that others should follow the same.
> > > > When it comes to prediction, everyone should follow what works for
> > > them
> > > > best - because astrology is a practical branch of knowledge). From a
> > > > philosophical point of view I appreciate Galaxy Centric Ayanamsa but
> > > it
> > > > do not work for me while dealing with Indian astrology (possibly
> > > because
> > > > through centuries the results are modified and made in tune with Surya
> > > > Siddhantic Ayanamsa etc by the indian practitioners of astrology), but
> > > > the Indian Ayanamsas (whether it be Chandrahari, True Chitrapaksha or
> > > > whatever nearby) works better for Indian astrology. If I am to read
> > > the
> > > > chart using Mesopotamian astrology principles and method, I would
> > > prefer
> > > > to use Galaxy Centric Ayanamsa, but not while dealing with Indian
> > > > astrology.
> > > > Love and regards,
> > > > Sreenadh
> > > >
> > > > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Namaste Sunil ji,
> > > > >
> > > > > Please convey my regards to your learned friend. His words are
> > > > > meaningful.
> > > > >
> > > > > Galactic Center at 240 deg will make ayanamsa deviate many degrees
> > > > from
> > > > > Lahiri. BTW, this option is already supported in JHora 7.51!
> > > > >
> > > > > Apart from Galactic center at 0Sg0, JHora 7.51 also includes a fixed
> > > > > star based implementation of Chandra Hari ayanamsa, where Lambda
> > > > Scorpii
> > > > > star (Shaula) is always placed at 0Sg0. Please note that Lambda
> > > > Scorpii
> > > > > star used by Chandra Hari is several degrees away from the Galactic
> > > > > Center!
> > > > >
> > > > > Your friend's suggestion of the intersection of galactic equator and
> > > > > ecliptic is interesting and may be worth investigating.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > Philosophically speaking, I too am not really convinced that 180 deg
> > > > > point must be the anchor for defining ayanamsa.
> > > > >
> > > > > I can think of two logical possibilities:
> > > > >
> > > > > (1) Focus on Prajapati, the Creator. For example, Aldebaran (Alpha
> > > > > Tauri) can be placed at the center of Taurus in Rohini (the star
> > > owned
> > > > > by Prajapati). JHora already offers this option. The other option
> > > not
> > > > > supported by JHora yet is to place Aldebaran at the center of Rohini
> > > > > itself.
> > > > > (2) Apart from Prajapati's star, it would make sense for the
> > > > *Mooladhara
> > > > > chakra* of Kaala Purusha to be the anchor.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > Just because the Moola star is named "Moola", some people associate
> > > it
> > > > > with Mooladhara chakra. That is questionable. If stars are named
> > > based
> > > > > on chakras they represent, show me stars named based on other six
> > > > > chakras (svAdhiShThAna etc)!
> > > > >
> > > > > Moola simply means root and can be the root of anything. For
> > > example,
> > > > > "bAhu-mUla" (root of arm) means armpit. As Sg shows thighs of Kaala
> > > > > Purusha, Moola star (ruled by Nirriti!) at its beginning could show
> > > > the
> > > > > root of thighs, i.e. groins. That is NOT the location of Mooladhara
> > > > > chakra.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > Mooladhara chakra is supposed to be located a little above anus and
> > > a
> > > > > little below the reproductive organ, both shown by Scorpio. After
> > > all,
> > > > > when Parasara defined zodiacal signs, he said Vi, Li, Sc and Sg are
> > > > the
> > > > > hips (kaTi), lower belly/abdomen (basti), privities (guhya) and
> > > thighs
> > > > > (Uru) of Kaala Purusha (respectively). Thus, Mooladhara chakra must
> > > be
> > > > > *well within* Scorpio, perhaps near the middle! Placing at at 0Sg0
> > > > makes
> > > > > no sense.
> > > > >
> > > > > Antares (Alpha Scorpii) is one of the brightest stars in that region
> > > > and
> > > > > one of the very few stars to lie within 5 deg from the ecliptic
> > > plane.
> > > > >
> > > > > One option is to place Antares in the middle of Scorpio (i.e.
> > > 15Sc0).
> > > > > The other (and better) option is to place it at the beginning of
> > > > > Jyeshtha star (i.e. 16Sc40). Please note that Jyeshtha means "the
> > > > > first/main/chief one".
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, Jyeshtha star is ruled by Indra and the deity of Mooladhara
> > > > chakra
> > > > > as per Tantras is also four-armed Indra on a white elephant!! The
> > > > beeja
> > > > > of Indra is laM (laM indrAya namaH) and laM is also the beeja of
> > > > > Mooladhara chakra!
> > > > >
> > > > > Apart from Indra, some texts also associate Ganapati with Mooladhara
> > > > > chakra and note that Ganapati is mentioned in RigVeda as
> > > jyeShTha-rAja
> > > > > (king of Jyeshtha)! Bottomline is that Mooladhara chakra controls
> > > > earth
> > > > > element or solid state of existence and offers stability and
> > > > > groundedness to one's awareness. Ganapati symbolizes that and so
> > > does
> > > > > Indra (indriyas or senses!) riding an elephant (solid/grounded
> > > > state!).
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > I am just thinking loud here, as far as "Jyeshthapaksha" ayanamsa
> > > > based
> > > > > on Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara chakra in Jyeshtha star is concerned.
> > > > >
> > > > > In any case, I am not at all convinced that 0Sg0 shows Mooladhara
> > > > chakra
> > > > > and hence should anchor the zodiac. If one carefully studies rasis
> > > of
> > > > > zodiac, body parts of Kaala Purusha shown by them and the location
> > > of
> > > > > chakras as per Tantras, one will conclude that Mooladhara chakra
> > > must
> > > > > lie *well within* Scorpio and close to its center.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just my 2 cents - take it or leave it!
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Narasimha
> > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,
> > > > > "Do It Yourself" ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:
> > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
> > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org
> > > > > Spirituality: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vedic-wisdom
> > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JyotishWritings
> > > > > Twitter ID: @homam108
> > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> >
> >
> > > > > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Sunil Bhattacharjya
> > > > > sunil_bhattacharjya@ wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Namaste Narasimhaji,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You wrote:
> > > > > > Quote
> > > > > >> not name it "Narasimha ayanamsa". I named it "Jagannatha
> > > ayanamsa".
> > > > > >> It > is available in JHora.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> In standard Lahiri ayanamsa, Chitra (spica) star *fluctuates*
> > > > around
> > > > > >> 180 > deg. In Jagannatha ayanamsa, Chitra is always *fixed* at
> > > > > >> exactly 180 > deg.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Secondly, the 2-dimensional plane onto which heavenly bodies are
> > > >
> > > > > >> projected is a *fluctuating* plane, in Lahiri ayanamsa (and most
> > > > > >> other > ayanamsas). Suppose we make a natal chart in April 1970
> > > and
> > > > a
> > > > > >> transit > chart in October 2011 and correlate planetary
> > > positions.
> > > > > >> The planes on > which planets are projected are totally different
> > > > on
> > > > > >> the two dates! Yet, > we compare the positions!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> In Jagannatha ayanamsa, this plane is fixed and does not change
> > > > from
> > > > > >> one > day to another. Instead of using the fluctuating Sun-earth
> > > > > >> rotation > plane, Jagannatha ayanamsa uses the *mean* Sun-earth
> > > > > >> rotation plane. So > it is fixed and does not fluctuate.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Thus, Jagannatha ayanamsa is just Lahiri ayanamsa with a truly
> > > > fixed
> > > > > >> > zero point and a fixed plane. It is very close to Lahiri
> > > > ayanamsa.
> > > > > > Unquote
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you for your reply. I have a liking for astrology but it may
> > > > not
> > > > > > be the very orthodox style of astrology. I am also not an
> > > unbeliever
> > > > > > in astrology like Kaulji has become with a vengeance. That is why
> > > > the
> > > > > > ayanamsha controversy did not not bug me as much as it has done to
> > > > > > Kaulji.BTW has Kaulji commented on the "Jagannatha ayanamsa"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As regards the "Jagannatha ayanamsa" I was asking a knowledgeable
> > > > > > friend about your efforts on correcting the Lahiri ayanamsha. He
> > > has
> > > > > > the following to say:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Quote
> > > > > > If Citra has to be the anchor of the sidereal zodiac, then
> > > Narasimha
> > > > > > Rao's method is no doubt an important correction to the Lahiri
> > > > > > ayanamsha. However, from a philosophical point of view, I do not
> > > see
> > > > > > why Citra should play such an important part in astrology as to
> > > > define
> > > > > > the beginning of the rashichakra. E.g., why not take the Galactic
> > > > > > Centre at the beginning of Mulanakshatra? Kindly think of the
> > > > meaning
> > > > > > of mula! That would make more sense, would it not? Or maybe even
> > > > > > better: the intersection point of the Galactic equator with the
> > > > > > ecliptic could be put at the beginning of Mula? Or if you put that
> > > > > > intersection point into the middle of Mulanakshatra, it would even
> > > > be
> > > > > > close to Lahiri-Ayanamsha.
> > > > > > Unquote
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Will you like comment on it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Sunil KB
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > From: Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@
> > > > > > To: JyotishWritings@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > > > JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 3:25 PM
> > > > > > Subject: [JyotishGroup] Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta
> > > > vs
> > > > > > SSS
> > > > > > Namaste Ranjan,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for the nice words. The thing with intuition is that it
> > > > cannot
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > transmitted. One needs to work hard to develop it and often some
> > > > > > moral/spiritual fabric is needed in one's character. Logical
> > > > knowledge
> > > > > > on the other hand can be transmitted and preserved.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sadly, people have corrupted the "logical knowledge" portion of
> > > > > > Jyotish
> > > > > > teachings of rishis and making up for it with intuition for the
> > > last
> > > > > > several centuries.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But, with the the age of intelligent machines dawning on humanity
> > > > and
> > > > > > moral/spiritual fabric of humanity seeing a fast deterioration,
> > > > > > retrieving SOME "logical knowledge" portions of the teachings of
> > > > > > rishis
> > > > > > and preserving for coming generations in an easy form will be very
> > > > > > valuable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Namaste Sunil ji,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are many parameters other than ayanamsa, where people have
> > > > > > different opinions. Resolving the ayanamsa issue is just one piece
> > > > of
> > > > > > the puzzle.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > BTW, I have already come up with an ayanamsa, in 2008-2009. But I
> > > > did
> > > > > > not name it "Narasimha ayanamsa". I named it "Jagannatha
> > > ayanamsa".
> > > > It
> > > > > > is available in JHora.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In standard Lahiri ayanamsa, Chitra (spica) star *fluctuates*
> > > around
> > > > > > 180
> > > > > > deg. In Jagannatha ayanamsa, Chitra is always *fixed* at exactly
> > > 180
> > > > > > deg.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Secondly, the 2-dimensional plane onto which heavenly bodies are
> > > > > > projected is a *fluctuating* plane, in Lahiri ayanamsa (and most
> > > > other
> > > > > > ayanamsas). Suppose we make a natal chart in April 1970 and a
> > > > transit
> > > > > > chart in October 2011 and correlate planetary positions. The
> > > planes
> > > > on
> > > > > > which planets are projected are totally different on the two
> > > dates!
> > > > > > Yet,
> > > > > > we compare the positions!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In Jagannatha ayanamsa, this plane is fixed and does not change
> > > from
> > > > > > one
> > > > > > day to another. Instead of using the fluctuating Sun-earth
> > > rotation
> > > > > > plane, Jagannatha ayanamsa uses the *mean* Sun-earth rotation
> > > plane.
> > > > > > So
> > > > > > it is fixed and does not fluctuate.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thus, Jagannatha ayanamsa is just Lahiri ayanamsa with a truly
> > > fixed
> > > > > > zero point and a fixed plane. It is very close to Lahiri ayanamsa.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > Narasimha
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Sunil Bhattacharjya
> > > > > > <sunil_bhattacharjya@> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Dear Rohini,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Narasimhaji said:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> QUOTE
> > > > > >> I have not yet found what I am looking for, though I experimented
> > > a
> > > > > >> lot.
> > > > > >>> Neither SSS nor drik siddhanta with Lahiri/Jagannatha ayanamsa
> > > > (and
> > > > > >>> Tithi Pravesha etc) come close to that really. Nor does anything
> > > > > >>> else
> > > > > >>> I ever had exposure to.
> > > > > >> UNQUOTE
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Is it a prelude to Mr. Narasimha's possible coming out with a
> > > > > >> "Narasimha Ayanamsha"? Let us hope the Ayanamsha debate will be
> > > put
> > > > > >> to
> > > > > >> rest soon.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Best,
> > > > > >> SKB
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> ________________________________
> > > > > >> From: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@>
> > > > > >> To: JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012
> > > > 10:50
> > > > > >> PM
> > > > > >> Subject: [JyotishGroup] Re: Turning the clock back: Drik
> > > Siddhanta
> > > > vs
> > > > > >> SSS
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Â Happy Gudi Padwa, Narasimha!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> As the craft progresses and so do we, I am reminded of the words
> > > of
> > > > > >> Charles, my wise friend, which I paraphrase, rather than copy and
> > > > > >> paste!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> The bird of divination has two wings, Logic and Intuition. Cut
> > > off
> > > > > >> either one and the bird flops around, going in circles but never
> > > > > >> managing to leave ground and "take-off"
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> What you have given to Jyotish already, regardless of what
> > > > jyotishis
> > > > > >> and jyotishi-wanna_bees realize or not is simplicity, clarity and
> > > > > >> HONESTY!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Whether they *took* it or not is THEIR PROBLEM!!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Warm regards,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Ranjan
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Namaste friends,
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Happy new lunar year Nandana!
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> If you are not interested in my views on Jyotish techniques and
> > > > > >>> controversies, please skip this mail.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Those who follow my Jyotish writings know that I switched to
> > > using
> > > > > >>> SSS (Sri Surya Siddhanta) for planetary calculations, at the end
> > > > of
> > > > > >>> 2010. I wrote a lot on it for a few months and then went almost
> > > > > >>> silent. The reason was that I was evaluating SSS vs drik
> > > siddhanta
> > > > > >>> with many more examples, after the initial euphoria died down. I
> > > > > >>> revisited many previous predictions and evaluated many more
> > > charts
> > > > > >>> and events and analyzed whether I made the right judgment in
> > > 2010.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Some people may be excited to hear this, some may be
> > > disappointed
> > > > > >>> and
> > > > > >>> some may be confused. But none of that is my intention. This is
> > > > just
> > > > > >>> an impassionate and rational judgment made over time. My
> > > apologies
> > > > > >>> to
> > > > > >>> anyone who is troubled by this in any way.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> * * *
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> It is my judgment that drik siddhanta with Lahiri/Jagannatha
> > > > > >>> ayanamsa
> > > > > >>> allowed me to make the most successful predictions, especially
> > > > using
> > > > > >>> the technique of Tithi Pravesha (learnt from, and thanks to, Pt
> > > > > >>> Sanjay Rath). Drik siddhanta with Jagannatha ayanamsa (a slight
> > > > > >>> variation of Lahiri ayanamsa) allowed me to come up with the
> > > most
> > > > > >>> promising objective techniques based on objective correlations
> > > > > >>> between divisional longitudes (e.g. stationary transits, padamsa
> > > > > >>> transits, vimsottari progression & transits, transit
> > > conjunctions
> > > > > >>> etc). Tithi Prav esha and none of those objective longitude
> > > > > >>> correlation techniques seem to work well with SSS and I could
> > > not
> > > > > >>> come up with any other objective methods with SSS. Though there
> > > > were
> > > > > >>> a few things (e.g. divisional Vimsottari dasa) that I was happy
> > > > with
> > > > > >>> when using SSS, they did not measure up in the final analysis,
> > > in
> > > > > >>> terms of consistency, objectivity and reliability with a much
> > > > larger
> > > > > >>> set of examples.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> After careful consideration over a few months, I determined that
> > > > > >>> turning the clock back by 13-14 months and switching back to
> > > drik
> > > > > >>> siddhanta and Jagannatha ayanamsa is the best way forward for me
> > > > to
> > > > > >>> carry on my Jyotish researches. That is what I will be doing in
> > > my
> > > > > >>> public writings, from today onwards!
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I have integrated a few ideas developed during the SSS journey
> > > > (e.g.
> > > > > >>> divisional Vimsottari dasa, correct interpretation of Parasara's
> > > > > >>> verses on aspect evaluation) into my old methodology based on
> > > drik
> > > > > >>> siddhanta and Jagannatha ayanamsa. I will be using them going
> > > > > >>> forward. But my staple will again be Tithi Pravesha. I will also
> > > > be
> > > > > >>> again picking up several interesting objective researches based
> > > on
> > > > > >>> divisional longitudes, which I came up with during 2008-2010
> > > > (please
> > > > > >>> see http://www.vedicastrologer.org/articles for the wrtieups).
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> * * *
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Just to be clear, Jagannatha Hora software will continue to
> > > > support
> > > > > >>> SSS, so that those who are interested in it can use it. Also, I
> > > am
> > > > > >>> thankful to Sri Vinay Jha for enabling me to experiment with SSS
> > > > and
> > > > > >>> to enable users of JHora to experiment with it. But I will not
> > > be
> > > > > >>> using SSS or promoting it anymore.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> * * *
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I have to honestly say one thing here.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> One learned friend once said that astrology is a combination of
> > > > > >>> science and art. He honestly said he started off with a "more
> > > > > >>> science
> > > > > >>> and less art" approach when young and settled with a "less
> > > science
> > > > > >>> and more art" approach in the end. He said everyone has to
> > > strike
> > > > > >>> the
> > > > > >>> right balance for oneself.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Some use tropical zodiac, some use sidereal zodiac, some use a
> > > > > >>> combination. Some use Lahiri ayanamsa, some use Krishnamoorthy
> > > > > >>> ayanamsa, some use some other ayanamsas. Some use rasi, some use
> > > > > >>> rasi-navamsa, some use all divisional charts. Some use
> > > Vimsottari
> > > > > >>> dasa, some use Chara dasa, some use many dasas. There are many
> > > > > >>> variations. People find what works for them and settle with some
> > > > > >>> "less science and more art" approach that suits their mind.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I too struck my balance in the past, but never stopped and kept
> > > > > >>> searching for a method that reduces the role of art (intuition).
> > > I
> > > > > >>> am
> > > > > >>> not looking to just strike a balance personally and pursue
> > > > something
> > > > > >>> for myself. My goal is to unearth some techniques that
> > > *minimize*
> > > > > >>> the
> > > > > >>> role of *intuition*, so that laymen of future generations can
> > > > > >>> benefit
> > > > > >>> from Jyotish, atleast for basic guidance in major life
> > > decisions,
> > > > > >>> without depending on astrologers who are increasingly becoming
> > > > > >>> commercial and unreliable.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I have not yet found what I am looking for, though I
> > > experimented
> > > > a
> > > > > >>> lot. Neither SSS nor drik siddhanta with Lahiri/Jagannatha
> > > > ayanamsa
> > > > > >>> (and Tithi Pravesha etc) come close to that really. Nor does
> > > > > >>> anything
> > > > > >>> else I ever had exposure to. Intuition still has *too
> > > significant*
> > > > a
> > > > > >>> role in all these techniques for them to be really useful to
> > > > laymen.
> > > > > >>> That is why I keep searching for something better. If I make a
> > > > wrong
> > > > > >>> turn, I'll come back when I realize it.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> In the end, it may very well turn out that my whole goal is a
> > > pipe
> > > > > >>> dream. A technique that minimizes the role of intuition and
> > > usable
> > > > > >>> by
> > > > > >>> laymen may not even exist, though some statements by Parasara in
> > > > > >>> BPHS
> > > > > >>> give me hope. Those who follow me overzealously may kindly note
> > > > this
> > > > > >>> possibility. I am perfectly ok with spending my entire life and
> > > > not
> > > > > >>> reaching my goal. If your goal is to strike some personal
> > > balance
> > > > > >>> and
> > > > > >>> becoming a good astrologer, you may be better off sticking to
> > > > > >>> something or the other (instead of following me on each turn and
> > > > > >>> twist) and working on your *intuition* through spiritual
> > > > practices.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Best regards,
> > > > > >>> Narasimha
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>





#64479 From: Hari Malla <harimalla@...>
Date: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:29 am
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
harimalla...
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Dear Harsha Indrasenji,
In continuation of my last mail, I take the liberty to add a little more.
Firstly, i hope you agree to the present ayansmha being positive so that the reformed ayanamhas becomes -6, with the zero point shifted by 30 degrees. If we take the present ayanamsha as negative then the reformed ayanamsha becomes + 6. Which sign, do you think is better? Perhaps taking the present ayanamsha as + 24 degrees is OK.
Secondly, if we go by the nomenclature of the manwatars as given  in the Bhagvatam, the present manawantar is said to be the seventh manawatar and is known as Vaivasat Manawantar. The reformed eighth Manawantar becomes Sabarni manawantar.
From this angle the 24 degrees ayanamsha of Vaivasat Manawantar becomes the -6 ayanamsha of the reformed new Sabarni Manawantar.
thank you.
Hari Malla
--- On Thu, 4/12/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@...> wrote:

From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@...>
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
To: "Hari Malla" <harimalla@...>
Date: Thursday, April 12, 2012, 5:59 PM


Dear Mr. Hari Malla,

 

Since we are yet to shift the zodiac to the proposed coordinated position am I correct if I say at present (or in 1900AD), coordinated zodiac and sidereal zodiac overlap. This is because we are still following the festival calendar coordinated by Varahamihira who shifted nirayana uttarayana from dhanishta to makara zero. Therefore coordinated ayanamsha at present (or in 1900AD) is around +24. Once we shift the zodiac from current position, the coordinated ayanamsha becomes -6.

 With regards Harsha Indrase

On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 2:04 PM, Hari Malla <harimalla@...> wrote:
Dear Harsha Indrasenji,
Thank you for the careful analysis of the coordinated ayanamsha issue. I feel the absolute sidereal ayanamsha cannot be entertained for long. The reason is there is no direct effect of the individual stars upon us whatsoever. They only act as the fixed references for the sun,  moon and the other planets including Rahu and Ketu. This is also clarified by the fact that the same zodiac becomes all the 12 houses for people born with the different lagans or rashi kundali. Thus the stars themselves have no particular effect upon us. Thus to attribute any special quality to a certain group of stars independantly for all the time is unthinkable. They are only reflecting the effects of the sun, the moon or the axial relationship with the earth for the manawantar or the sidereal period of 2150 years,.  This period is the  period over which a certain star group can have the so called sidereal quality, which though is actually the reflected qualities from the sun, moon and the earth axis relationship.

<2)      Please define the coordinated ayanamsha as a formula. Is it like: Coordinated ayanamsha = Tropical Aries Zero - Coordinated Aries zero>
I think if the present ayansmha is taken psoitve as (+24) then  the coordinated reformed ayanamsha becomes minus six (-6) at the present.  The ayanamsha then varies from - -6 to +15 degrees, this time of reform. When the reform occurrs in future, in the beginning it is -15, then in about 1000 years, it comes to zero and then it becomes positive and reaches upto + 15 in about another 1000 years. Then the zero point is shifted by 30 dgrees when the reformed ayanamsha suddenly changes to -15 etc.
Please improve the ssytem, mathematically after understnding what I am trying to say. Thanks and
Regards,
Hari Malla

--- On Thu, 4/12/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@...> wrote:

From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@...>
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
To: "Hari Malla" <harimalla@...>
Date: Thursday, April 12, 2012, 6:07 AM


Dear Mr. Hari Malla,

 

1)      Do you recommend the sidereal astrologers to use coordinated zodiac in phalit work? I think sidereal astrologers should continue to use sidereal zodiac for phalit work.

2)      Please define the coordinated ayanamsha as a formula.

 

Is it like

 

Coordinated ayanamsha = Tropical Aries Zero - Coordinated Aries zero

 

If so the coordinated ayanamsha will fluctuate between +15 to -15.

 With regards Harsha Indrasena

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 8:37 AM, Hari Malla <harimalla@...> wrote:
Dear Harsha Indrasenji,
Thank you for your reply, I think you are quite clear in your opinion and very careful too.
The coordinated ayanamsha is for those who believe in astrology with the effects of the other five planets.. It is just a compromise with the astrologers who insists upon the reality of the effects of these planets, since this idea has been used for thousands of year, although with a misudnerstanding.  Just not to go against this tradition, I do not mind the use of ayanamsha in sidereal predictive calculations.
The coordinated system is the periodic shift of the zero point of ayanamsha so that the coordination of the sidereal and tropicial  relationship is never lost. Talking in terms of justification of the coordination which is different from the use of ayanmsha,i would like to say the following.
1. Ayanamsha is minor adjustment within one particular age where as coordination is major adjustment over the ages when the zero point of ayanmsha is shifted by 30 degreees at a time. Ayanamsha is thus limited to plus and minus 15 degrees at  each age.
1. Lagan kundali is based on daily rotational movement of the earth which centers upon the pole point, Thus it is tropical based. The chandra rashi kundali is based upon the monthly revolutonary motion of the moon around the earth.
2. These two motions must be coordinated with respect to each other so the  two view points can salvage the truth from both these two view points. These two view points are connected to our five senses( lagan kundali) and the intellect or mind (chandra rashi kundali). Since the five senses and the mind is both within the same person, they must as a first necessity be coordinated or harmonised so that the person is a integreted or a sane person. Please know that the earth takes these two motions as the daily rotation and the monthly wobble too. I hope you know about the monthly motion of the earth produced by the gravitational influences of the mooon. The moon and the earth core are said to go around the common earth-moon barycenter every month. The  earth axis and the monthly earth wobble both being executed by the same earth possess, has as a necessity, a natural coordination, without doubt.
3. Here we have to have a different definition of the sidereal coordinate.The sidereal cordinates is or should be just the mean position of the lunar fluctuation of one month due to adhimas ineah age. This midpoint of monthly motion of the full moon over the stars is also well depicted by the nomenclature system of the lunar months and the related nakshyatras. The full moon of Falgun fluctuates over the two nakshyatras of purva falguni and uttara falguni nakshyatras. Thus Meen sankranti is 180 degrees to the boundary beween these two nakshytras aproximately. Mesh sankranti is 180 degrees to the mid point of chitra nakshyatras, Chaitra full moon flucutating between two padas each of Hasta and Swati with Chitra nakshtyras at its midddle.. Thus we can define the mesh sankranti as the mid point of the Chaitra purnima or the equinoctical purnima fluctuation zone.
Here we are giving more importance to the lunar month rather than the solar sankrantis. The reason is lunar months are natural months but the sankrantis like mesh sankranti  are arbitrary 30 degres demarcation made by Man. If we understand this fact then we should not have the problem of shifting the zero point of ayansmha as the sankrantis whenever we shift the full moon zones and keeping the zero point as the mean postion of the fluctuation zone of he full moon.
Of coure, in the above analysis we are taking for granted that the stars by themselves have no effect upon us ( for our precidictive purpose) except as fixed incdicators or reference points in space for teh sun adn the moon..
 I guess, I have given a different out look than genearally accepted by the astrologers. they think the strs are primary effectors which is not acutally true. these stars are efeatgors only as the fixed references of the effects of the sun and the moon. Plese ask where i ahvenotbeen clear. Thank you,
Hari malla
 
 
 
 
--- On Tue, 4/10/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@...> wrote:

From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@...>
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
To: "Hari Malla" <harimalla@...>
Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 2:45 PM


Dear Mr. Hari Malla,

 

He may use the ayanamsha of his choice, i.e. Yukteshwar. The Yukteshwar ayanamsha on 1st Jan 1900 is 21° 04' 56".

 

If he wants the Coordinated longitudes of Sun, Moon and Stars for the purpose of calendar reform he can use the following formula:

Coordinated longitude = (Tropical longitude – Yukteshwar Ayanamsha) + 30°

 

If he calculates sidereal longitudes directly he can use the following formula:

Coordinated longitude = Sidereal longitude + 30°

 

Since Coordinated calendar reform is interested only in festivals, there is no need of defining a coordinated ayanamsha. Apart from sun, moon and stars I do not think coordinated system is interested in other five planets.

 

I went through the files section again in Parvasudhar group, but could not find much weight given to Ayanamsha. Exact ayanamsha is not necessary in Moon based coordinated calendar since shift of zodiac is done every 2160 years and there is a wide fluctuation zone to the Moon. In that sense Coordinated calendar seems to be simpler and superior to sidereal calendar.

 

My understanding is that Coordinated system is not for predictive astrology; it has been proposed to correct timing of religious festivals. This differs vastly from the other two systems proposed, i.e. Tropical and Sidereal calendar. It looks like to me that the latter two systems are mainly interested in maintaining astrology rather than religion. I make this conclusion based on what you have said about astrology from the religious point of view. There is no need to sacrifice religion to the stars by maintain sidereal zodiac in festival calendar. But sidereal zodiac still has its place in predictive astrology, which I also follow.

 

I may be wrong. Please give your comments so that I could understand coordinated system better. No need to take this as a conclusion but rather the beginning of a discussion.

 With regards Harsha Indrasena

On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 8:43 AM, Hari Malla <harimalla@...> wrote:
Dear Harsha indrasenji,
Thank you indeed for working out the formula for the coordinated, tropical and sidereal coordinates.
Kindly also give the value of your coordinated Dularaka ayanamsha to  Rohiniji of 01-01-1900, as he desires!  Thank you for the cooperation.

Hari Malla.
--- On Tue, 4/10/12, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@...> wrote:

From: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@...>
Subject: Fw: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
To: JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, April 10, 2012, 2:23 AM


 
Hari_ji,

I am still waiting for the ayanamsha value of 01-01-1900!

Recent History seems to be repeating itself... ;-)

Once again...!

Regards,

RR_,

--- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, "hari" <harimalla@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Raj Raoji and Rohiniji,
> If it interests you to use coordinated longitude, Harsh Indrasenji has
> supplied the formula for the reepctive coordinates. I feel he is quick in mathemtics. No?
> regards,
> Hari Malla
>
>
>
> --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Hari Malla <harimalla@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Mon, 4/9/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@>
> > Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
> > To: "Hari Malla" <harimalla@>
> > Date: Monday, April 9, 2012, 5:23 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Mr. Hari Malla,
> >  
> > Thank you.
> >  
> > <I am happy to hear that the referring to the coordinated Dularaka ayanamsha VE is at 5°23'37" (coordinated) Aries. I wonder what will be the prediction on this basis of ayanamsha, other things remaining the same.>
> >  
> > C- Coordinated longitude
> > S- Sidereal longitude
> > T- Tropical longitude
> > Ay â€" Ayanamsha (You may use whatever ayanamsha of your choice)
> >  
> > C = S + 30°
> > S = T â€" Ay
> > Therefore
> > C = (T â€" Ay) + 30°
> >  
> > There will be little effect on predictions based on transits, directions and inter-planetary aspects that are used in Western astrology.
> >  
> > Sidereal astrologers can convert coordinated longitudes to Sidereal longitudes simply by subtracting one sign from coordinated longitudes (S = C - 30°) and use accordingly.
> >  
> > <I feel the other five planets apart from the sun, the moon and Rahu ketu are misrepresented.>
> >  
> > Whatever it is astrology is not the path to Nirvana. I think the teaching is similar in Hinduism. Therefore it is better not believe in astrology.
> >  With regards Harsha Indrasena
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 7:36 PM, Hari Malla <harimalla@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Harsha Indrasenji,
> > Thank you indeed for your carefully thought out reply.
> > 1.Transferring the geocentric sidereal parameter to the hlocenteric one, we add the speed of the sun to the speed of the nakshyatras. This I feel is Yoga and is the ultimate goal of practising astroloogy is to achieve this too, in the mind. I have read in Bhratiya Jyotish that Parashar too has expressd this opinion that the astrologers shoulod try to go to Brahmahlok in the end. In SS, we read that at the end after educating Maya danava on astronomy, Suryamsha Purush ultimately goes to the orb of the sun, which in my view means the transfer of the geocentric center to the heliocentric one..
> > 2. May I please know the scientific explanation attributed to the proper motion of the stars as you have mentioned.. Is it the rotation of the galaxy?
> >  
> > 3 Thank you for acceptig my defintion of Kalpa. This definiton is concluded from the mention in the Bhagvatam of Dhruva (pole point) having two sons- Vatsar ( the year, orbit of the earth) and Kalpa (the great year, precession of the equinoxes).
> >  
> > 4. I am happy to hear that the referring to the coordinated Dularaka ayanamsha VE is at 5°23'37" (coordinated) Aries. I wonder what will be the predicton on this basis of ayanamsha, other things remaining the same.
> > Although I do not believe prediction can predict 100 percent, but I do not rule out the possiblity of prediction success of about 60 percent. I feel the other five planets apart from the sun, the moon and Rahu ketu are misrepresented.
> > Thank you again, for your support as well as educating me in certain aspects of astronomy. .
> > Hari Malla
> >
> >  
> >  
> > --- On Thu, 4/5/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@>
> > Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
> > To: "Hari Malla" <harimalla@>
> > Date: Thursday, April 5, 2012, 7:18 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Mr. Hari Malla,
> >  
> > 1) <I request you to confirm that the sidereal zodiac though composed of 12 equal parts in empty space is centered at the sun.>
> >  
> > Zodiac is situated round the ecliptic, extending 8-9° north or south of the ecliptic, in the celestial sphere. This means zodiac is situated in infinity. Therefore the distance between the Sun and the Earth is negligible when compared with the distance to the Zodiac.
> >  
> > Therefore we can use the same zodiac in both heliocentric and geocentric versions. In heliocentric version, the zodiac is centered at Sun. In geocentric version, the zodiac is centered at Earth. But both versions refer to one and the same zodiac. Therefore what you say is correct.
> >  
> > 2) <I am sure you will agree that the shift of stars in one Kalpa of 25,800 years is quite negligible.>
> >  
> > No.
> >  
> > Days, months, years and several billion years in my mail refer to changing signs of heavenly bodies (both planets and stars).
> >  
> > We cannot ignore the proper motion of planets in one Kalpa for the stars that are closer to us.
> >  
> > Proper motion was suspected by early astronomers (according to Macrobius, AD 400) but proof was provided in 1718 by Edmund Halley, who noticed that Sirius, Arcturus and Aldebaran were over half a degree away from the positions charted by the ancient Greek astronomer Hipparchus roughly 1850 years earlier.[23]
> >  
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_motion
> >  
> > Proper motion of stars is important when one defines the zodiac. Therefore if we always fix Shaula at 0deg Sag or Aldebaren at 15deg Taurus, even the sidereal zodiac will keep moving over years.
> >  
> > 3) <By the way do you agree with the 25,800 years figure for one Kalpa or cycle of precession?>
> >  
> > That depends on how we define Kalpa. This is your definition and it is acceptable to me.
> >  
> > 4) I would also request you to kindly send your present value of Dulakara ayanamsha.
> >  
> > 24°36'23"
> >  
> > If we shift the zero point of ayanamsha by 30 degrees for the sake of coordination, what will be the new reformed value of Dulakara ayanamsha?
> >  
> > VE is at 5°23'37" (coordinated) Aries.
> >  
> > Thank you.
> > Harsha Indrasena
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 8:06 AM, Hari Malla <harimalla@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Harsha Indrasenji,
> >
> > Thank you for your reply. I am impressed by your thorough knowledge of astronomy.
> > I liked your following expresion too..
> >
> > <Sidereal zodiac is fixed. Its background is empty. It is just 12 equal parts in sky. It is not composed of stars. Planets move rapidly over days, months and years, and stars move very very slowly over millions and billions of years across it.>
> > I request you to confirm that siereal zodiacs though composed of 12 equal parts in empty space is centered at the sun. I would like to add, 'when we consider the sun at the center of the circle of zodiac stars, it is the highest experience man can have. He bcomes a Buddha! This is what SS says. This is what our panchangas says, when we add the speed of nakshytras( meaning moon) to the speed of the sun( meaning the earth inits orbit), then we get Yoga. This Yoga is Buddhahood the reltionship of the sun to the stars, in its pratically static postion.
> > I say 'practically' because, if negligibly moving in one hundered life times or generation  for we living creatures,  is surely practicaly fixed. One hundered lifetime is say about 10,000 years. And a peiod of 10,000 years inhistory is already prehistoric by human standards and its civilisation. Stars moving over millions and billions of years is not connected with our eye vision and our civilisatio, since we live only for 100 years and  history of our civilisation  is not more than 5,000 to 10 000 years. Our human experience of static nature is quite limited and also eternity. Our life and death is surely trancscended in one life time by a Budha. and if not in one lifetime then surely in a hundered lifetimes by other humans. So much for human philosophy and end of rebirths of one person.
> > Now coming to our coordinative system, we shift one rashi sankranti of 30 degrees, for coordinating the sidereal and the tropical zodiacs about every 2,150 years. This is one manawantar of 12 shifts in one Kalpa of 25,800 years, in my view. I am sure you wil agree that the shift of stars in one Kalpa of 25,800 years is quite negligible. By the way do you agree with the 25,800 years figure for one Kalpa or cycle of precession?
> > .I would also rquest you to kinldy send your present value of Dularka ayanamsha. If we shift the zero point of aynamsha by 30 degrees for the sake of coordination, what will be the new reformed value of Dularka ayanmsha?
> >  
> > Thank you for our cooperation?
> >  
> > Hari Malla
> >
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > --- On Tue, 4/3/12, Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Harsha Indrasena <indrasenaharsha@>
> > Subject: Re: [JyotishGroup] Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara Chakra? (Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta vs SSS)
> > To: JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 3:20 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Mr. Hari Malla,
> >  
> > I very well agree with your philosophical views.
> >  
> > <Please note that galactic center is in no way dealt with, in our scriptures and it is meaningless to talk about it in the ancient context. This is complete misconeption to jump to conclusions and a sheer waste of time.>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sidereal Galactic center has been defined by approximating known sidereal zodiac with the event that occurred in July 1998. Without knowing approximate location of sidereal zodiac one cannot give longitudes to this point. I consider this as a rough approximation rather than the eternal truth.
> >  
> >
> >
> > <This modern concept of science has zero effect in our practical lives.>
> >
> >
> > Modern astronomy will never ever be able to find out the beginning of sidereal Aries. We must try to find out true sidereal zodiac by scrutinizing ancient wisdom. That is why astrology is a divine science.
> >  
> >
> >
> > <Thus my request to drop this associaton with muladhara chakra which is misleading. It is as misleading as to say that one manwantar is equal to 40 years.>
> >
> >
> > It is quite true that Mula or Shaula star is closer to a zero than Spica or Chitra star. But Shaula is not a good reference point because this star is located far beyond the ecliptic.  None of the planets touches this star during their course. Therefore Chitra is a better reference point than Mula star.
> >  
> >
> >
> > Other thing is that we cannot fix the longitudes of stars. Stars do move and change positions over time. We must fit the stars into nakshatras and rashis, in the same way that we do with planets, rather than fitting the nakshatras and rashis to stars.
> >  
> >
> >
> > Sidereal zodiac is fixed. Its background is empty. It is just 12 equal parts in sky. It is not composed of stars. Planets move rapidly over days, months and years, and stars move very very slowly over millions and billions of years across it.
> >                                    
> >
> >
> > With regards Harsha Indrasena
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 9:35 AM, hari <harimalla@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear all,
> > A friendly tip here. Please note that galactic center is in no way dealt with, in our scriptures and it is meaningless to talk about it in the ancient context. This is complete misconeption to jump to conclusions and a sheer waste of time.
> > This modern concept of science has zero effect in our practical lives.
> > Thus my request to drop this associaton with muladhara chakra which is misleading. It is as misleading as to say that one manwantar is equal to 40 years.
> > Also 'muladhar chakra' in my view is related to the center of the earth or earth core.
> > thank you.
> > Hari Malla
> >
> >
> > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, "sreesog" <sreesog@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Narasimha ji,
> > > I have a question/dobt. What would be the longitude of Galaxy Center
> > > when Mula star is at 0Sg0? In this case will Galaxy Center be at the
> > > middle of Mula Nakshatra or somewhere else?
> > > Also can you please include the relative longitudes of all important
> > > stars (Yoga taras) in JHora to help such researches? That could be much
> > > helpful - not only in such studies but also asserting the Vedic and
> > > Puranic astronomic statements, in some cases.
> > > Love and regards,
> > > Sreenadh
> > >
> >
> >
> > > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, "sreesog" <sreesog@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Narasimha ji, Sunil ji and All,
> > > > //> Please convey my regards to your learned friend. His words are
> > > > > meaningful.//
> > > > Yes, and definitely from those words itself it is well evidant that
> > > > those words are NOT of Chandrahari ji.
> > > > //> Galactic Center at 240 deg will make ayanamsa deviate many degrees
> > > > from
> > > > > Lahiri. BTW, this option is already supported in JHora 7.51!//
> > > > Yes, True.
> > > > //> Apart from Galactic center at 0Sg0, JHora 7.51 also includes a
> > > fixed
> > > > > star based implementation of Chandra Hari ayanamsa, where Lambda
> > > > Scorpii
> > > > > star (Shaula) is always placed at 0Sg0. Please note that Lambda
> > > > Scorpii
> > > > > star used by Chandra Hari is several degrees away from the Galactic
> > > > > Center!//
> > > > Yes, True.
> > > > //> Philosophically speaking, I too am not really convinced that 180
> > > deg
> > > > > point must be the anchor for defining ayanamsa.//
> > > > Good realization!
> > > > //> (1) Focus on Prajapati, the Creator. For example, Aldebaran (Alpha
> > > > > Tauri) can be placed at the center of Taurus in Rohini (the star
> > > owned
> > > > > by Prajapati). JHora already offers this option. The other option
> > > not
> > > > > supported by JHora yet is to place Aldebaran at the center of Rohini
> > > > > itself.
> > > > > (2) Apart from Prajapati's star, it would make sense for the
> > > > *Mooladhara
> > > > > chakra* of Kaala Purusha to be the anchor.//
> > > > I appreciate this approach. Possibly Rohini (Aldebaran) star as
> > > the
> > > > star of Brahma and Rohini Nakshatra as the Birth star of Brahma points
> > > > to the position of Aldebaran at the middle of Rohini Nakshatra itself
> > > > (and not to Aldebaran at the middle of Taurus). I have a question -
> > > Is
> > > > it not giving importance to the Nakshatra and Star of Creation/Brahma
> > > > and placing it at the middle of Rohini Nakshatra, almost exactly same
> > > as
> > > > Chandrahari's Ayanamsa? (Even though the focus of opinion and
> > > arguments
> > > > expressed may differ, the Ayanamsa value will remains almost the same
> > > in
> > > > both these cases I think. Please clarify)
> > > > //> Just because the Moola star is named "Moola", some people
> > > associate
> > > > it
> > > > > with Mooladhara chakra. That is questionable. //
> > > > True. The Vedic name for Mula is "Mula Barhis" which rather means
> > > > "the one which spins and expands, or the root of everything (present
> > > in
> > > > the universe?)". Or in other words possibly Mula Nakshatra got its
> > > name
> > > > more because of its association with Galactic Center and not because
> > > of
> > > > its association with Mula star. Even when the position of Mula star
> > > at
> > > > 0Sg0 becomes questionable the connection of Mula Nakshatra with
> > > Galactic
> > > > Center cannot be questioned. The name Mula is more connected with
> > > with
> > > > Galactic Center (of Milky way galaxy) and not to the Muladhara Chakra
> > > > concept etc which are possibly of later day origin.
> > > > Another point is that, even though philosophical perspective, and
> > > also
> > > > the available Mesopotamian horoscopes supports a Galectic Center
> > > > Ayanamsa; the results predicated by Indian astrology classics match
> > > with
> > > > the given horoscope, only when the foundations proposed by Indian
> > > > siddhantic texts and Ayanamsa based on the same are followed. (For me
> > > > Surya Siddhantic Chandrahari Ayanamsa works well in this regard; even
> > > > though I don't force the argument that others should follow the same.
> > > > When it comes to prediction, everyone should follow what works for
> > > them
> > > > best - because astrology is a practical branch of knowledge). From a
> > > > philosophical point of view I appreciate Galaxy Centric Ayanamsa but
> > > it
> > > > do not work for me while dealing with Indian astrology (possibly
> > > because
> > > > through centuries the results are modified and made in tune with Surya
> > > > Siddhantic Ayanamsa etc by the indian practitioners of astrology), but
> > > > the Indian Ayanamsas (whether it be Chandrahari, True Chitrapaksha or
> > > > whatever nearby) works better for Indian astrology. If I am to read
> > > the
> > > > chart using Mesopotamian astrology principles and method, I would
> > > prefer
> > > > to use Galaxy Centric Ayanamsa, but not while dealing with Indian
> > > > astrology.
> > > > Love and regards,
> > > > Sreenadh
> > > >
> > > > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Namaste Sunil ji,
> > > > >
> > > > > Please convey my regards to your learned friend. His words are
> > > > > meaningful.
> > > > >
> > > > > Galactic Center at 240 deg will make ayanamsa deviate many degrees
> > > > from
> > > > > Lahiri. BTW, this option is already supported in JHora 7.51!
> > > > >
> > > > > Apart from Galactic center at 0Sg0, JHora 7.51 also includes a fixed
> > > > > star based implementation of Chandra Hari ayanamsa, where Lambda
> > > > Scorpii
> > > > > star (Shaula) is always placed at 0Sg0. Please note that Lambda
> > > > Scorpii
> > > > > star used by Chandra Hari is several degrees away from the Galactic
> > > > > Center!
> > > > >
> > > > > Your friend's suggestion of the intersection of galactic equator and
> > > > > ecliptic is interesting and may be worth investigating.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > Philosophically speaking, I too am not really convinced that 180 deg
> > > > > point must be the anchor for defining ayanamsa.
> > > > >
> > > > > I can think of two logical possibilities:
> > > > >
> > > > > (1) Focus on Prajapati, the Creator. For example, Aldebaran (Alpha
> > > > > Tauri) can be placed at the center of Taurus in Rohini (the star
> > > owned
> > > > > by Prajapati). JHora already offers this option. The other option
> > > not
> > > > > supported by JHora yet is to place Aldebaran at the center of Rohini
> > > > > itself.
> > > > > (2) Apart from Prajapati's star, it would make sense for the
> > > > *Mooladhara
> > > > > chakra* of Kaala Purusha to be the anchor.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > Just because the Moola star is named "Moola", some people associate
> > > it
> > > > > with Mooladhara chakra. That is questionable. If stars are named
> > > based
> > > > > on chakras they represent, show me stars named based on other six
> > > > > chakras (svAdhiShThAna etc)!
> > > > >
> > > > > Moola simply means root and can be the root of anything. For
> > > example,
> > > > > "bAhu-mUla" (root of arm) means armpit. As Sg shows thighs of Kaala
> > > > > Purusha, Moola star (ruled by Nirriti!) at its beginning could show
> > > > the
> > > > > root of thighs, i.e. groins. That is NOT the location of Mooladhara
> > > > > chakra.
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > Mooladhara chakra is supposed to be located a little above anus and
> > > a
> > > > > little below the reproductive organ, both shown by Scorpio. After
> > > all,
> > > > > when Parasara defined zodiacal signs, he said Vi, Li, Sc and Sg are
> > > > the
> > > > > hips (kaTi), lower belly/abdomen (basti), privities (guhya) and
> > > thighs
> > > > > (Uru) of Kaala Purusha (respectively). Thus, Mooladhara chakra must
> > > be
> > > > > *well within* Scorpio, perhaps near the middle! Placing at at 0Sg0
> > > > makes
> > > > > no sense.
> > > > >
> > > > > Antares (Alpha Scorpii) is one of the brightest stars in that region
> > > > and
> > > > > one of the very few stars to lie within 5 deg from the ecliptic
> > > plane.
> > > > >
> > > > > One option is to place Antares in the middle of Scorpio (i.e.
> > > 15Sc0).
> > > > > The other (and better) option is to place it at the beginning of
> > > > > Jyeshtha star (i.e. 16Sc40). Please note that Jyeshtha means "the
> > > > > first/main/chief one".
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, Jyeshtha star is ruled by Indra and the deity of Mooladhara
> > > > chakra
> > > > > as per Tantras is also four-armed Indra on a white elephant!! The
> > > > beeja
> > > > > of Indra is laM (laM indrAya namaH) and laM is also the beeja of
> > > > > Mooladhara chakra!
> > > > >
> > > > > Apart from Indra, some texts also associate Ganapati with Mooladhara
> > > > > chakra and note that Ganapati is mentioned in RigVeda as
> > > jyeShTha-rAja
> > > > > (king of Jyeshtha)! Bottomline is that Mooladhara chakra controls
> > > > earth
> > > > > element or solid state of existence and offers stability and
> > > > > groundedness to one's awareness. Ganapati symbolizes that and so
> > > does
> > > > > Indra (indriyas or senses!) riding an elephant (solid/grounded
> > > > state!).
> > > > >
> > > > > * * *
> > > > >
> > > > > I am just thinking loud here, as far as "Jyeshthapaksha" ayanamsa
> > > > based
> > > > > on Kaala Purusha's Mooladhara chakra in Jyeshtha star is concerned.
> > > > >
> > > > > In any case, I am not at all convinced that 0Sg0 shows Mooladhara
> > > > chakra
> > > > > and hence should anchor the zodiac. If one carefully studies rasis
> > > of
> > > > > zodiac, body parts of Kaala Purusha shown by them and the location
> > > of
> > > > > chakras as per Tantras, one will conclude that Mooladhara chakra
> > > must
> > > > > lie *well within* Scorpio and close to its center.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just my 2 cents - take it or leave it!
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Narasimha
> > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > > > > Free Jyotish Software, Free Jyotish Lessons, Jyotish Writings,
> > > > > "Do It Yourself" ritual manuals for short Homam and Pitri Tarpana:
> > > > > http://www.VedicAstrologer.org
> > > > > Films that make a difference: http://SaraswatiFilms.org
> > > > > Spirituality: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vedic-wisdom
> > > > > Jyotish writings: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JyotishWritings
> > > > > Twitter ID: @homam108
> > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> >
> >
> > > > > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Sunil Bhattacharjya
> > > > > sunil_bhattacharjya@ wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Namaste Narasimhaji,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You wrote:
> > > > > > Quote
> > > > > >> not name it "Narasimha ayanamsa". I named it "Jagannatha
> > > ayanamsa".
> > > > > >> It > is available in JHora.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> In standard Lahiri ayanamsa, Chitra (spica) star *fluctuates*
> > > > around
> > > > > >> 180 > deg. In Jagannatha ayanamsa, Chitra is always *fixed* at
> > > > > >> exactly 180 > deg.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Secondly, the 2-dimensional plane onto which heavenly bodies are
> > > >
> > > > > >> projected is a *fluctuating* plane, in Lahiri ayanamsa (and most
> > > > > >> other > ayanamsas). Suppose we make a natal chart in April 1970
> > > and
> > > > a
> > > > > >> transit > chart in October 2011 and correlate planetary
> > > positions.
> > > > > >> The planes on > which planets are projected are totally different
> > > > on
> > > > > >> the two dates! Yet, > we compare the positions!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> In Jagannatha ayanamsa, this plane is fixed and does not change
> > > > from
> > > > > >> one > day to another. Instead of using the fluctuating Sun-earth
> > > > > >> rotation > plane, Jagannatha ayanamsa uses the *mean* Sun-earth
> > > > > >> rotation plane. So > it is fixed and does not fluctuate.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Thus, Jagannatha ayanamsa is just Lahiri ayanamsa with a truly
> > > > fixed
> > > > > >> > zero point and a fixed plane. It is very close to Lahiri
> > > > ayanamsa.
> > > > > > Unquote
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you for your reply. I have a liking for astrology but it may
> > > > not
> > > > > > be the very orthodox style of astrology. I am also not an
> > > unbeliever
> > > > > > in astrology like Kaulji has become with a vengeance. That is why
> > > > the
> > > > > > ayanamsha controversy did not not bug me as much as it has done to
> > > > > > Kaulji.BTW has Kaulji commented on the "Jagannatha ayanamsa"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As regards the "Jagannatha ayanamsa" I was asking a knowledgeable
> > > > > > friend about your efforts on correcting the Lahiri ayanamsha. He
> > > has
> > > > > > the following to say:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Quote
> > > > > > If Citra has to be the anchor of the sidereal zodiac, then
> > > Narasimha
> > > > > > Rao's method is no doubt an important correction to the Lahiri
> > > > > > ayanamsha. However, from a philosophical point of view, I do not
> > > see
> > > > > > why Citra should play such an important part in astrology as to
> > > > define
> > > > > > the beginning of the rashichakra. E.g., why not take the Galactic
> > > > > > Centre at the beginning of Mulanakshatra? Kindly think of the
> > > > meaning
> > > > > > of mula! That would make more sense, would it not? Or maybe even
> > > > > > better: the intersection point of the Galactic equator with the
> > > > > > ecliptic could be put at the beginning of Mula? Or if you put that
> > > > > > intersection point into the middle of Mulanakshatra, it would even
> > > > be
> > > > > > close to Lahiri-Ayanamsha.
> > > > > > Unquote
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Will you like comment on it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Sunil KB
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > > From: Narasimha PVR Rao pvr@
> > > > > > To: JyotishWritings@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > vedic-astrology@yahoogroups.com;
> > > > > > JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 3:25 PM
> > > > > > Subject: [JyotishGroup] Re: Turning the clock back: Drik Siddhanta
> > > > vs
> > > > > > SSS
> > > > > > Namaste Ranjan,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for the nice words. The thing with intuition is that it
> > > > cannot
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > transmitted. One needs to work hard to develop it and often some
> > > > > > moral/spiritual fabric is needed in one's character. Logical
> > > > knowledge
> > > > > > on the other hand can be transmitted and preserved.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sadly, people have corrupted the "logical knowledge" portion of
> > > > > > Jyotish
> > > > > > teachings of rishis and making up for it with intuition for the
> > > last
> > > > > > several centuries.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But, with the the age of intelligent machines dawning on humanity
> > > > and
> > > > > > moral/spiritual fabric of humanity seeing a fast deterioration,
> > > > > > retrieving SOME "logical knowledge" portions of the teachings of
> > > > > > rishis
> > > > > > and preserving for coming generations in an easy form will be very
> > > > > > valuable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Namaste Sunil ji,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are many parameters other than ayanamsa, where people have
> > > > > > different opinions. Resolving the ayanamsa issue is just one piece
> > > > of
> > > > > > the puzzle.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > BTW, I have already come up with an ayanamsa, in 2008-2009. But I
> > > > did
> > > > > > not name it "Narasimha ayanamsa". I named it "Jagannatha
> > > ayanamsa".
> > > > It
> > > > > > is available in JHora.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In standard Lahiri ayanamsa, Chitra (spica) star *fluctuates*
> > > around
> > > > > > 180
> > > > > > deg. In Jagannatha ayanamsa, Chitra is always *fixed* at exactly
> > > 180
> > > > > > deg.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Secondly, the 2-dimensional plane onto which heavenly bodies are
> > > > > > projected is a *fluctuating* plane, in Lahiri ayanamsa (and most
> > > > other
> > > > > > ayanamsas). Suppose we make a natal chart in April 1970 and a
> > > > transit
> > > > > > chart in October 2011 and correlate planetary positions. The
> > > planes
> > > > on
> > > > > > which planets are projected are totally different on the two
> > > dates!
> > > > > > Yet,
> > > > > > we compare the positions!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In Jagannatha ayanamsa, this plane is fixed and does not change
> > > from
> > > > > > one
> > > > > > day to another. Instead of using the fluctuating Sun-earth
> > > rotation
> > > > > > plane, Jagannatha ayanamsa uses the *mean* Sun-earth rotation
> > > plane.
> > > > > > So
> > > > > > it is fixed and does not fluctuate.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thus, Jagannatha ayanamsa is just Lahiri ayanamsa with a truly
> > > fixed
> > > > > > zero point and a fixed plane. It is very close to Lahiri ayanamsa.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > Narasimha
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Sunil Bhattacharjya
> > > > > > <sunil_bhattacharjya@> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Dear Rohini,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Narasimhaji said:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> QUOTE
> > > > > >> I have not yet found what I am looking for, though I experimented
> > > a
> > > > > >> lot.
> > > > > >>> Neither SSS nor drik siddhanta with Lahiri/Jagannatha ayanamsa
> > > > (and
> > > > > >>> Tithi Pravesha etc) come close to that really. Nor does anything
> > > > > >>> else
> > > > > >>> I ever had exposure to.
> > > > > >> UNQUOTE
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Is it a prelude to Mr. Narasimha's possible coming out with a
> > > > > >> "Narasimha Ayanamsha"? Let us hope the Ayanamsha debate will be
> > > put
> > > > > >> to
> > > > > >> rest soon.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Best,
> > > > > >> SKB
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> ________________________________
> > > > > >> From: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@>
> > > > > >> To: JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012
> > > > 10:50
> > > > > >> PM
> > > > > >> Subject: [JyotishGroup] Re: Turning the clock back: Drik
> > > Siddhanta
> > > > vs
> > > > > >> SSS
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Â Happy Gudi Padwa, Narasimha!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> As the craft progresses and so do we, I am reminded of the words
> > > of
> > > > > >> Charles, my wise friend, which I paraphrase, rather than copy and
> > > > > >> paste!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> The bird of divination has two wings, Logic and Intuition. Cut
> > > off
> > > > > >> either one and the bird flops around, going in circles but never
> > > > > >> managing to leave ground and "take-off"
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> What you have given to Jyotish already, regardless of what
> > > > jyotishis
> > > > > >> and jyotishi-wanna_bees realize or not is simplicity, clarity and
> > > > > >> HONESTY!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Whether they *took* it or not is THEIR PROBLEM!!
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Warm regards,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Ranjan
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> --- In JyotishGroup@yahoogroups.com, Narasimha PVR Rao <pvr@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Namaste friends,
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Happy new lunar year Nandana!
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> If you are not interested in my views on Jyotish techniques and
> > > > > >>> controversies, please skip this mail.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Those who follow my Jyotish writings know that I switched to
> > > using
> > > > > >>> SSS (Sri Surya Siddhanta) for planetary calculations, at the end
> > > > of
> > > > > >>> 2010. I wrote a lot on it for a few months and then went almost
> > > > > >>> silent. The reason was that I was evaluating SSS vs drik
> > > siddhanta
> > > > > >>> with many more examples, after the initial euphoria died down. I
> > > > > >>> revisited many previous predictions and evaluated many more
> > > charts
> > > > > >>> and events and analyzed whether I made the right judgment in
> > > 2010.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Some people may be excited to hear this, some may be
> > > disappointed
> > > > > >>> and
> > > > > >>> some may be confused. But none of that is my intention. This is
> > > > just
> > > > > >>> an impassionate and rational judgment made over time. My
> > > apologies
> > > > > >>> to
> > > > > >>> anyone who is troubled by this in any way.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> * * *
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> It is my judgment that drik siddhanta with Lahiri/Jagannatha
> > > > > >>> ayanamsa
> > > > > >>> allowed me to make the most successful predictions, especially
> > > > using
> > > > > >>> the technique of Tithi Pravesha (learnt from, and thanks to, Pt
> > > > > >>> Sanjay Rath). Drik siddhanta with Jagannatha ayanamsa (a slight
> > > > > >>> variation of Lahiri ayanamsa) allowed me to come up with the
> > > most
> > > > > >>> promising objective techniques based on objective correlations
> > > > > >>> between divisional longitudes (e.g. stationary transits, padamsa
> > > > > >>> transits, vimsottari progression & transits, transit
> > > conjunctions
> > > > > >>> etc). Tithi Prav esha and none of those objective longitude
> > > > > >>> correlation techniques seem to work well with SSS and I could
> > > not
> > > > > >>> come up with any other objective methods with SSS. Though there
> > > > were
> > > > > >>> a few things (e.g. divisional Vimsottari dasa) that I was happy
> > > > with
> > > > > >>> when using SSS, they did not measure up in the final analysis,
> > > in
> > > > > >>> terms of consistency, objectivity and reliability with a much
> > > > larger
> > > > > >>> set of examples.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> After careful consideration over a few months, I determined that
> > > > > >>> turning the clock back by 13-14 months and switching back to
> > > drik
> > > > > >>> siddhanta and Jagannatha ayanamsa is the best way forward for me
> > > > to
> > > > > >>> carry on my Jyotish researches. That is what I will be doing in
> > > my
> > > > > >>> public writings, from today onwards!
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I have integrated a few ideas developed during the SSS journey
> > > > (e.g.
> > > > > >>> divisional Vimsottari dasa, correct interpretation of Parasara's
> > > > > >>> verses on aspect evaluation) into my old methodology based on
> > > drik
> > > > > >>> siddhanta and Jagannatha ayanamsa. I will be using them going
> > > > > >>> forward. But my staple will again be Tithi Pravesha. I will also
> > > > be
> > > > > >>> again picking up several interesting objective researches based
> > > on
> > > > > >>> divisional longitudes, which I came up with during 2008-2010
> > > > (please
> > > > > >>> see http://www.vedicastrologer.org/articles for the wrtieups).
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> * * *
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Just to be clear, Jagannatha Hora software will continue to
> > > > support
> > > > > >>> SSS, so that those who are interested in it can use it. Also, I
> > > am
> > > > > >>> thankful to Sri Vinay Jha for enabling me to experiment with SSS
> > > > and
> > > > > >>> to enable users of JHora to experiment with it. But I will not
> > > be
> > > > > >>> using SSS or promoting it anymore.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> * * *
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I have to honestly say one thing here.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> One learned friend once said that astrology is a combination of
> > > > > >>> science and art. He honestly said he started off with a "more
> > > > > >>> science
> > > > > >>> and less art" approach when young and settled with a "less
> > > science
> > > > > >>> and more art" approach in the end. He said everyone has to
> > > strike
> > > > > >>> the
> > > > > >>> right balance for oneself.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Some use tropical zodiac, some use sidereal zodiac, some use a
> > > > > >>> combination. Some use Lahiri ayanamsa, some use Krishnamoorthy
> > > > > >>> ayanamsa, some use some other ayanamsas. Some use rasi, some use
> > > > > >>> rasi-navamsa, some use all divisional charts. Some use
> > > Vimsottari
> > > > > >>> dasa, some use Chara dasa, some use many dasas. There are many
> > > > > >>> variations. People find what works for them and settle with some
> > > > > >>> "less science and more art" approach that suits their mind.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I too struck my balance in the past, but never stopped and kept
> > > > > >>> searching for a method that reduces the role of art (intuition).
> > > I
> > > > > >>> am
> > > > > >>> not looking to just strike a balance personally and pursue
> > > > something
> > > > > >>> for myself. My goal is to unearth some techniques that
> > > *minimize*
> > > > > >>> the
> > > > > >>> role of *intuition*, so that laymen of future generations can
> > > > > >>> benefit
> > > > > >>> from Jyotish, atleast for basic guidance in major life
> > > decisions,
> > > > > >>> without depending on astrologers who are increasingly becoming
> > > > > >>> commercial and unreliable.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I have not yet found what I am looking for, though I
> > > experimented
> > > > a
> > > > > >>> lot. Neither SSS nor drik siddhanta with Lahiri/Jagannatha
> > > > ayanamsa
> > > > > >>> (and Tithi Pravesha etc) come close to that really. Nor does
> > > > > >>> anything
> > > > > >>> else I ever had exposure to. Intuition still has *too
> > > significant*
> > > > a
> > > > > >>> role in all these techniques for them to be really useful to
> > > > laymen.
> > > > > >>> That is why I keep searching for something better. If I make a
> > > > wrong
> > > > > >>> turn, I'll come back when I realize it.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> In the end, it may very well turn out that my whole goal is a
> > > pipe
> > > > > >>> dream. A technique that minimizes the role of intuition and
> > > usable
> > > > > >>> by
> > > > > >>> laymen may not even exist, though some statements by Parasara in
> > > > > >>> BPHS
> > > > > >>> give me hope. Those who follow me overzealously may kindly note
> > > > this
> > > > > >>> possibility. I am perfectly ok with spending my entire life and
> > > > not
> > > > > >>> reaching my goal. If your goal is to strike some personal
> > > balance
> > > > > >>> and
> > > > > >>> becoming a good astrologer, you may be better off sticking to
> > > > > >>> something or the other (instead of following me on each turn and
> > > > > >>> twist) and working on your *intuition* through spiritual
> > > > practices.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Best regards,
> > > > > >>> Narasimha
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>





#64482 From: Sunil Nair <astro_tellerkerala@...>
Date: Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:34 am
Subject: Fw: Re: [VRI] Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis and phalita-jyotisha are of Geek origin!
astro_teller...
Send Email Send Email
 


--- On Fri, 13/4/12, Sunil Nair <astro_tellerkerala@...> wrote:

From: Sunil Nair <astro_tellerkerala@...>
Subject: Re: [VRI] Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis and phalita-jyotisha are of Geek origin!
To: "Rabinder Koul" <arrk00@...>
Cc: akrishnan08@...
Date: Friday, 13 April, 2012, 10:02 AM

 Dear rabinder Ji 

This avatar is a  typical avatar who has no respect for truth than committed to  his agenda s which includes belittling and calling name of all indian acharya s and prasing what ever western or their claims 

finaly i stopped respecting him since he has no rgrds for truth and treated him Like a chandala 

so many times i told him that greeks was not having a devlped mathematics even and most of the texts they hav is plagirised and u can see there is no continuation in their  tradition or any of the schools ,they lack a previous devlpment or after devlpment in any of the claims too but worked as a bridge to connect eastern Knowldge to western thoughts and devlpemnts 

They were busy in adapting what ever avilable frm any sources ,b it egyptian ,b it babylonians or b it indians 

alexander was consulting temple  oracle s ( even b4 starting  his conquest  )than astrologers where as Megastanese written in the Book indica ( which has givn 1000 times as reference and proof to this typical  avatar Ji ) says india has got a grp of people called philosophers who was into predicting for people and kings and according to him they will abstain frm rest of the Life and liv in seclusion in case their prediction goes wrong ,where as for this avatar  all the reference in purana s are added later and simply astrology is Gimmick 

more over astrology in various forms may b there in all over  world ( u can see lot of funny system s too )  but this system of astrology which is practised in india or similar one  needs a religious  philosophical support and a strong philosophical foundation supported by society to carry on this Numbr of yrs and millionia 's 

 which is a blf in Karma sidhantha and birth and re birth theory and a cosmological concept with mathematical model  which Greece is missing in large scale frm their Philosophy and relgion 

more over even the trignometrical models used by greeks was indian adaptation which is proved Later 

There is ample of proofs that greeks were studying in india where as No one can show a proof that indian learned in greek  in any gurukula or university 

rgrds sunil nair 



--- On Fri, 13/4/12, Rabinder Koul <arrk00@...> wrote:


Date: Friday, 13 April, 2012, 5:02 AM

Dear Avtar Ji:
What number system did the Greeks use to develop Algebra? So far I know there number system would of I, ...X , L etc would not be amenable to algebra or arithmetic. 
Ravindra Koul
अस्मद्रूपसमाविष्ठ: स्वात्मनात्मानिवारणे 
शिव: करोतु निजया नम: शक्त्या ततात्मने 

On Apr 11, 2012, at 5:31 AM, AK Kaul wrote:

 


http://www.crystalinks.com/hippocrates.html


In Greek antiquity, medicine was second to mathematics. Ancient Greek Civilization was at its peak during the 400's BC. During this period of time, sick people went to the temples dedicated to Asclepius, the Greek god of healing. At this time, a man named Hippocrates began teaching that every disease had only natural causes. He is known as the great ancient Greek physician. In medicine, doctors still refer to the Hippocratic oath, instituted by Hippocrates, who is also credited with laying the foundations of medicine as a science.

Galen built on Hippocrates' theory of the four humors, and his writings became the foundation of medicine in Europe and the Middle East for centuries. The Greek physicians Herophilos and Paulus Aegineta were pioneers in the study of anatomy, while Pedanius Dioscorides wrote an extensive treatise on the practice of pharmacology.

Hippocrates was the first physician known who actually considered medicine to be a science, and to be separate from religion. He wrote the Hippocratic oath, an oath that every new doctor-to-be still says to this day. It reflected Hippocrates high ideals.

Hippocrates of Kos (c. 460 BC­c. 380 BC) was an ancient Greek physician. He has been called "the father of medicine", and is commonly regarded as one of the most outstanding figures in medicine of all time. He was a physician trained at the Dream temple of Kos, and may have been a pupil of Herodicus. Writings attributed to him (Corpus hippocraticum, or "Hippocratic writings") rejected the superstition and magic of primitive "medicine" and laid the foundations of medicine as a branch of science. Little is actually known about Hippocrates's personal life, but some of his medical achievements were documented by such people as Plato and Aristotle.

The Hippocratic writings introduced patient confidentiality, a practice which is still in use today. This was described under the Hippocratic Oath and other treatises. Hippocrates recommended that physicians record their findings and their medicinal methods, so that these records may be passed down and employed by other physicians.Other Hippocratic writings associated personality traits with the relative abundance of the four humours in the body: phlegm, yellow bile, black bile, and blood, and was a major influence on Galen and later on medieval medicine.

The Hippocratic Corpus is a collection of about sixty treatises, most written between 430 BC and AD 200. They are actually a group of texts written by several different people holding several different viewpoints erroneously grouped under the name of Hippocrates, perhaps at the Library of Alexandria. None of the texts included in the Corpus can be considered to have been written by Hippocrates himself, and one of them at least was written by his son-in-law Polybus. The best known of the Hippocratic writings is the Hippocratic Oath; however, this text was most likely not written by Hippocrates himself. A famous, time-honoured medical rule ascribed to Hippocrates is Primum non nocere ("first, do no harm"); another one is Ars longa, vita brevis ("art is long, and life short").

The Hippocratic face is the change produced in the countenance by death, or long sickness, excessive evacuations, excessive hunger, and the like. The nose is pinched, the eyes are sunk, the temples hollow, the ears cold and retracted, the skin of the forehead tense and dry, the complexion livid, the lips pendent, relaxed, and cold. The Hippocratic face is so called because it was first described by Hippocrates.

In medicine, clubbing (or digital clubbing) is a deformity of the fingers and fingernails that is associated with a number of diseases, mostly of the heart and lungs. Idiopathic clubbing can also occur. Hippocrates was probably the first to document clubbing as a sign of disease, and the phenomenon is therefore occasionally called Hippocratic fingers.

Medical astrology is an ancient medical system that associates various parts of the body, diseases, and drugs as under the influence of the Sun, Moon, and planets, along with the twelve astrological signs. Hippocrates, the Greek physician who is regarded as the father of medicine, insisted his students study astrology, saying, "He who does not understand astrology is not a doctor but a fool." Each of the astrological signs (along with the Sun, Moon, and planets) are associated with different parts of the human body. Also, many plants are referred to in old herbals as being "under the influence of" some planet. This was used as a codification of the plants properties and used to create mixtures specific to different diseases.

The associations of the signs with the parts of the body are as follows:


  • Aries - head, face, brain, eyes
  • Taurus - throat, neck, thyroid gland, vocal tract
  • Gemini - arms, lungs, shoulders, hands, nervous sytem
  • Cancer - chest, breasts, stomach, alimentary canal
  • Leo - heart, chest, spine, spinal column, upper back
  • Virgo - digestive system, intestines, spleen, nervous system
  • Libra - kidneys, skin, lumbar region, buttocks
  • Scorpio - reproductive system, sexual organs, bowels, excretory system
  • Sagittarius - hips, thighs, liver, sciatic nerve
  • Capricorn - knees, joints, skeletal system
  • Aquarius - ankles, calves, circulatory systemPisces - feet, toes, lymphatic system, adipose tissue

The Hypocratic bench or scamnum was a device invented by Hippocrates (c. 460 BC­380 BC) which used tension to aid in setting bones. It is a forerunner of the traction devices used in modern orthopedics, as well as of the rack, an instrument of torture. The patient would lie on a bench, at an adjustable angle, and ropes would be tied around his arms, waist, legs or feet, depending on the treatment needed. Winches would then be used to pull the ropes apart, correcting curvature in the spine or separating an overlapping fracture.




The Hippocratic Oath

The Hippocratic Oath is an oath traditionally taken by physicians, in which certain ethical guidelines are laid out. It is thought to be written by Hippocrates by some scholars, but this is disputed and instead thought to be written by the Pythagoreans. One traditional version is below but there are others.

Several parts of the Oath have been removed or re-worded over the years in various countries, schools, and societies but the Oath still remains one of the few elements of medicine that have remained unchanged. Most schools administer some form of oath, but the great majority no longer use this ancient version, which praises pagan gods, advocates teaching of men but not women, and forbids cutting, abortion, and euthanasia. Also missing from the ancient Oath and many modern versions are complex, new ethical landmines such as dealing with HMOs, living wills, and whether morning-after pills are technically closer to prophylactics or an abortion.

I swear by Apollo the physician, and Aesculapius, and Health, and All-heal, and all the gods and goddesses, that, according to my ability and judgment, I will keep this Oath and this stipulation- to reckon him who taught me this Art equally dear to me as my parents, to share my substance with him, and relieve his necessities if required; to look upon his offspring in the same footing as my own brothers, and to teach them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or stipulation; and that by precept, lecture, and every other mode of instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the Art to my own sons, and those of my teachers, and to disciples bound by a stipulation and oath according to the law of medicine, but to none others.

I will follow that system of regimen which, according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patients, and abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous.

I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion. With purity and with holiness I will pass my life and practice my Art.

I will not cut persons laboring under the stone, but will leave this to be done by men who are practitioners of this work. Into whatever houses I enter, I will go into them for the benefit of the sick, and will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief and corruption; and, further from the seduction of females or males, of freemen and slaves.

Whatever, in connection with my professional practice or not, in connection with it, I see or hear, in the life of men, which ought not to be spoken of abroad, I will not divulge, as reckoning that all such should be kept secret.

While I continue to keep this Oath unviolated, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and the practice of the art, respected by all men, in all times! But should I trespass and violate this Oath, may the reverse be my lot!



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#64483 From: "Sunil" <astro_tellerkerala@...>
Date: Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:39 am
Subject: Fw: Re: [VRI] Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis and phalita-jyotisha are of Geek origin!
astro_teller...
Send Email Send Email
 
Kaulians Knows only this kind of  title can attract lot of traffic where as he will repeat this same exercise so long as when ever there is No response and people r silent on his posts or claims 

In short every one is fed up and No one takes him serious other than a useless time waister 




--- In ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com, Sunil Nair <astro_tellerkerala@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 13/4/12, Sunil Nair astro_tellerkerala@... wrote:
>
> From: Sunil Nair astro_tellerkerala@...
> Subject: Re: [VRI] Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis and phalita-jyotisha are of Geek origin!
> To: "Rabinder Koul" arrk00@...
> Cc: akrishnan08@...
> Date: Friday, 13 April, 2012, 10:02 AM
>
>  Dear rabinder Ji 
> This avatar is a  typical avatar who has no respect for truth than committed to  his agenda s which includes belittling and calling name of all indian acharya s and prasing what ever western or their claims 
> finaly i stopped respecting him since he has no rgrds for truth and treated him Like a chandala 
>
> so many times i told him that greeks was not having a devlped mathematics even and most of the texts they hav is plagirised and u can see there is no continuation in their  tradition or any of
> the schools ,they lack a previous devlpment or after devlpment in any of the claims too but worked as a bridge to connect eastern Knowldge to western thoughts and devlpemnts 
> They were busy in adapting what ever avilable frm any sources ,b it egyptian ,b it babylonians or b it indians 
> alexander was consulting temple  oracle s ( even b4 starting  his conquest  )than astrologers where as Megastanese written in the Book indica ( which has givn 1000 times as reference and proof to this typical  avatar Ji ) says india has got a grp of people called philosophers who was into predicting for people and kings and according to him they will abstain frm rest of the Life and liv in seclusion in case their prediction goes wrong ,where as
> for this avatar  all the reference in purana s are added later and simply astrology is Gimmick 
> more over astrology in various forms may b there in all over  world ( u can see lot of funny system s too )  but this system of astrology which is practised in india or similar one  needs a religious  philosophical support and a strong philosophical foundation supported by society to carry on this Numbr of yrs and millionia 's 
>  which is a blf in Karma sidhantha and birth and re birth theory and a cosmological concept with mathematical model  which Greece is missing in large scale frm their Philosophy and relgion 
> more over even the trignometrical models used by greeks was indian adaptation which is proved Later 
> There is ample of proofs that greeks were studying in india where as No one can show a proof that indian learned in greek  in any gurukula or university 
> rgrds sunil nair 
>
>
> --- On Fri, 13/4/12, Rabinder Koul arrk00@... wrote:
>
>
> Date: Friday, 13 April, 2012, 5:02 AM
>
> Dear Avtar Ji:What number system did the Greeks use to develop Algebra? So far I know there
> number system would of I, ...X , L etc would not be amenable to algebra or arithmetic. 
> Ravindra Koulअस्मद्रूपसमाविष् : स्वात्मनात्मानिवारणे शिव: करोतु निजया नम: शक्त्या ततात्मने 
> On Apr 11, 2012, at 5:31 AM, AK Kaul wrote:
>  
>
> http://www.crystalinks.com/hippocrates.html
> In Greek antiquity, medicine was second to mathematics. Ancient Greek Civilization was at its peak during the 400's BC. During this period of time, sick people went to the temples dedicated to Asclepius, the Greek god of healing. At this time, a man named Hippocrates began teaching that every disease had only natural causes. He is known as the great ancient Greek physician. In medicine, doctors
> still refer to the Hippocratic oath, instituted by Hippocrates, who is also credited with laying the foundations of medicine as a science. Galen built on Hippocrates' theory of the four humors, and his writings became the foundation of medicine in Europe and the Middle East for centuries. The Greek physicians Herophilos and Paulus Aegineta were pioneers in the study of anatomy, while Pedanius Dioscorides wrote an extensive treatise on the practice of pharmacology. Hippocrates was the first physician known who actually considered medicine to be a science, and to be separate from religion. He wrote the Hippocratic oath, an oath that every new doctor-to-be still says to this day. It reflected Hippocrates high ideals. Hippocrates of Kos (c. 460 BC­c. 380 BC) was an ancient Greek physician. He has been called "the father of medicine", and
> is commonly regarded as one of the most outstanding figures in medicine of all time. He was a physician trained at the Dream temple of Kos, and may have been a pupil of Herodicus. Writings attributed to him (Corpus hippocraticum, or "Hippocratic writings") rejected the superstition and magic of primitive "medicine" and laid the foundations of medicine as a branch of science. Little is actually known about Hippocrates's personal life, but some of his medical achievements were documented by such people as Plato and Aristotle. The Hippocratic writings introduced patient confidentiality, a practice which is still in use today. This was described under the Hippocratic Oath and other treatises. Hippocrates recommended that physicians record their findings and their medicinal methods, so that these records may be passed down and employed by other physicians.Other Hippocratic writings associated personality traits with the relative abundance of the four
> humours in the body: phlegm, yellow bile, black bile, and blood, and was a major influence on Galen and later on medieval medicine. The Hippocratic Corpus is a collection of about sixty treatises, most written between 430 BC and AD 200. They are actually a group of texts written by several different people holding several different viewpoints erroneously grouped under the name of Hippocrates, perhaps at the Library of Alexandria. None of the texts included in the Corpus can be considered to have been written by Hippocrates himself, and one of them at least was written by his son-in-law Polybus. The best known of the Hippocratic writings is the Hippocratic Oath; however, this text was most likely not written by Hippocrates himself. A famous, time-honoured medical rule ascribed to Hippocrates is Primum non nocere ("first, do no harm"); another one is Ars longa, vita brevis ("art is long, and life short"). The Hippocratic face
> is the change produced in the countenance by death, or long sickness, excessive evacuations, excessive hunger, and the like. The nose is pinched, the eyes are sunk, the temples hollow, the ears cold and retracted, the skin of the forehead tense and dry, the complexion livid, the lips pendent, relaxed, and cold. The Hippocratic face is so called because it was first described by Hippocrates. In medicine, clubbing (or digital clubbing) is a deformity of the fingers and fingernails that is associated with a number of diseases, mostly of the heart and lungs. Idiopathic clubbing can also occur. Hippocrates was probably the first to document clubbing as a sign of disease, and the phenomenon is therefore occasionally called Hippocratic fingers. Medical astrology is an ancient medical system that associates various parts of the body, diseases, and
> drugs as under the influence of the Sun, Moon, and planets, along with the twelve astrological signs. Hippocrates, the Greek physician who is regarded as the father of medicine, insisted his students study astrology, saying, "He who does not understand astrology is not a doctor but a fool." Each of the astrological signs (along with the Sun, Moon, and planets) are associated with different parts of the human body. Also, many plants are referred to in old herbals as being "under the influence of" some planet. This was used as a codification of the plants properties and used to create mixtures specific to different diseases.The associations of the signs with the parts of the body are as
> follows:
> Aries - head, face, brain, eyes Taurus - throat, neck, thyroid gland, vocal tract Gemini - arms, lungs, shoulders, hands, nervous sytem Cancer - chest, breasts, stomach, alimentary canal Leo - heart, chest, spine, spinal column, upper back Virgo - digestive system, intestines, spleen, nervous system Libra - kidneys, skin, lumbar region, buttocks Scorpio - reproductive system, sexual organs, bowels, excretory system Sagittarius - hips, thighs, liver, sciatic nerve Capricorn - knees, joints, skeletal system Aquarius - ankles, calves, circulatory systemPisces - feet, toes, lymphatic system, adipose tissue The Hypocratic bench or scamnum was a device invented by Hippocrates (c. 460 BC­380 BC) which used tension to aid in setting bones. It is a
> forerunner of the traction devices used in modern orthopedics, as well as of the rack, an instrument of torture. The patient would lie on a bench, at an adjustable angle, and ropes would be tied around his arms, waist, legs or feet, depending on the treatment needed. Winches would then be used to pull the ropes apart, correcting curvature in the spine or separating an overlapping fracture.
>
> The Hippocratic Oath The Hippocratic Oath is an oath traditionally taken by physicians, in which certain ethical guidelines are laid out. It is thought to be written by Hippocrates by some scholars, but this is disputed and instead thought to be written by the Pythagoreans. One traditional version is below but there are others. Several parts of the Oath have been removed or re-worded over the years in
> various countries, schools, and societies but the Oath still remains one of the few elements of medicine that have remained unchanged. Most schools administer some form of oath, but the great majority no longer use this ancient version, which praises pagan gods, advocates teaching of men but not women, and forbids cutting, abortion, and euthanasia. Also missing from the ancient Oath and many modern versions are complex, new ethical landmines such as dealing with HMOs, living wills, and whether morning-after pills are technically closer to prophylactics or an abortion. I swear by Apollo the physician, and Aesculapius, and Health, and All-heal, and all the gods and goddesses, that, according to my ability and judgment, I will keep this Oath and this stipulation- to reckon him who taught me this Art equally dear to me as my parents, to share my substance with him, and relieve his necessities if required; to look upon his offspring in the same
> footing as my own brothers, and to teach them this art, if they shall wish to learn it, without fee or stipulation; and that by precept, lecture, and every other mode of instruction, I will impart a knowledge of the Art to my own sons, and those of my teachers, and to disciples bound by a stipulation and oath according to the law of medicine, but to none others. I will follow that system of regimen which, according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patients, and abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous. I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any such counsel; and in like manner I will not give to a woman a pessary to produce abortion. With purity and with holiness I will pass my life and practice my Art. I will not cut persons laboring under the stone, but will leave this to be done by men who are practitioners of this work. Into whatever houses I enter, I will go
> into them for the benefit of the sick, and will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief and corruption; and, further from the seduction of females or males, of freemen and slaves. Whatever, in connection with my professional practice or not, in connection with it, I see or hear, in the life of men, which ought not to be spoken of abroad, I will not divulge, as reckoning that all such should be kept secret. While I continue to keep this Oath unviolated, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and the practice of the art, respected by all men, in all times! But should I trespass and violate this Oath, may the reverse be my lot!
>
> ShareThis
>
> ANCIENT GREECE INDEX
> ANCIENT CIVILIZATIONS INDEX
> ALPHABETICAL INDEX OF ALL FILES
> CRYSTALINKS HOME PAGE
> PSYCHIC READING WITH ELLIE
> 2012 THE ALCHEMY OF TIME
>

#64489 From: Sunil Nair <astro_tellerkerala@...>
Date: Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:32 am
Subject: A comparative study between Panchangam and modern weather forecast
astro_teller...
Send Email Send Email
 

A comparative study between indian hindu  Panchangam and modern weather forecast was and published

 in the Indian Journal of Science and Technology


Now we hav lot of panchanga parishkartha' s ,can they giv a better model with their proposed systems  or is astrology is again predictive gimmick and No need to get a earlier prediction or  is it true that they will start giving curses Like God will destroy the Land where ever such a prediction is practised ( according to semitic religions blf transported to indian faith --because they r converted ???) 

then why all this govmtmental exprnditure on weather forecast ??

rgrds sunil nair 





1 of 1 File(s)


#64490 From: vchiranjiv@...
Date: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:09 am
Subject: Re: [AIA] present PANCHANGAM AS A SCIENTIFIC WEATHER PREDICTION MODEL
vchiranjiv
Send Email Send Email
 
Is there enough knowledge currently to make these annual panchanga.
Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone

From: Sunil Nair <astro_tellerkerala@...>
Sender: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 16:37:25 +0800 (SGT)
To: <ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com
Cc: <akrishnan08@...>
Subject: [AIA] present PANCHANGAM AS A SCIENTIFIC WEATHER PREDICTION MODEL

 

A comparative study between Panchangam and modern weather forecast was done
>>and published in the Indian Journal of Science and Technology
>>
>>
>>http://www.indjst.org/archive/Apr-12/03_vandeep.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Following is the conclusion of the paper
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Though most of the Predictions in Panchangam  are
>>qualitative and usually generalised over a given area, say
>>a state, an in-depth study and analysis of the propositions
>>enshrined in the almanac, in conjunction with the modern
>>sophisticated meteorological science will result in the
>>evolution of a more accurate, reliable and accountable
>>weather forecasting in the near future. Our ancient
>>Indians did not have the luxury of sophisticated and
>>automated weather mapping devices. Yet, they were able
>>to develop astonishingly erudite and pertinent theories
>>and principles often without even looking at the sky,
>>which significantly coincided with the modern findings of
>>late. The calendar system and time scales in  the
>>Panchangam are immaculate.  A year with an
>>Adhikamaasam occurs around 7 times in 19 years.
>>Sometimes, due to the varying speeds of Earth’s rotation
>>around the Sun, it so happens that a solar month may be
>>shorter than the lunar month. This calls for a deduction of
>>a lunar month from the calendar. This eliminated month is
>>known as ‘Ksheenamaasam or Kshayamaasam’.
>>Panchangam predictions maintained a vigorous rate
>>of positive association with the authentic observations.
>>This extended from 10.6% to 72.8% in case of maximum
>>rainfall recorded on any given day of a particular year and
>>from 14.6% to 93.8% pertaining to the total mean annual
>>rainfall during the period of study. During the period of
>>South-West monsoon, this relationship fluctuated
>>between 9.7% and 78.1%. During North-East monsoon
>>time, this vacillated from 22.5% to 94.4%. The observed
>>total monsoonal mean rainfall corresponded to the
>>Panchangam predictions to an extent stretching from
>>16.1% to 88.1%.The prediction of rainfall based on the
>>planetary crown of a given year coincided with the actual
>>total annual rainfall to an extent of 81.8%. When it comes
>>to the issue of comparison of predicted dominant cloud
>>type during a year and the resultant rainfall, with the
>>recorded measurements, the scope of this association
>>was found to be 63.6%. Further, the direction of cloud
>>origin as foreseen in the Panchangam was discovered to
>>be likened to the real-time observations at a rate of
>>81.9%. When the predicted nature of wind velocity was
>>under deliberation, the height of concord with the on-site
>>observations during the period of study was established
>>to be 63.6%. Hence, to summarise at a bird’s eye view,
>>the degree of association between predictions and
>>recorded data was of the order ranging from a meagre
>>9.7% to a staggering 94.4% in case of individual
>>observations. On the whole, the general trend of
>>Panchangam predictions versus  actual observations
>>emerged out to be 56.75% (57% (approx.)).
>>
>>
>>THE PAPER CONCLUDES BY SAYING PANCHANGAM AS A SCIENTIFIC WEATHER PREDICTION
>> MODEL


#64491 From: "Sunil" <astro_tellerkerala@...>
Date: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:31 am
Subject: Re: [AIA] present PANCHANGAM AS A SCIENTIFIC WEATHER PREDICTION MODEL
astro_teller...
Send Email Send Email
 
My answer --Big No 

ever since pricely state s vanished No one wants to practise so many  fine systems practised in astrology since it is not a paying profession any more  and not even sanskrit universities are concentrating in it 

what i am asking is our daily nuisance of caldner reformers Like Kaul and malla yudha Ji ,does they hav consider this option too or will they run for cover saying astrology is  predictive gimmicks and predictive gimmicks  are against Hindus 

I mailed to one ayurveda colledge dean asking what is his opinion on astrology in roga nirnya and his exprnce or can he help us in getting charts of patients and with heir nature of disease and a brief History of disease  

i dont get any reply ,u should think that it needs money ,time and efforts to reserch even this matter ,and here in grp all r asking us to quench their thirst as if we r some slaves and hence it has lead to fall in astro mails frm my side 

i used to help some students ,now no more as they will not do any work than we want to work for them and tkeeping us as a free predictior for their near and dear 

so fall in standard of subjuct  and  exalted level of subjuct is totaly diffrnt matter 



rgrds sunil nair 


--- In ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com, vchiranjiv@... wrote:
>
> Is there enough knowledge currently to make these annual panchanga.
>
> Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sunil Nair astro_tellerkerala@...
> Sender: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 16:37:25
> To: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com
> Reply-To: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com
> Cc: akrishnan08@...
> Subject: [AIA] present PANCHANGAM AS A SCIENTIFIC WEATHER PREDICTION MODEL
>
> A comparative study between Panchangam and modern weather forecast was done
> >>and published in the Indian Journal of Science and Technology
> >>
> >>
> >>http://www.indjst.org/archive/Apr-12/03_vandeep.pdf
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Following is the conclusion of the paper
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Though most of the Predictions in Panchangam  are
> >>qualitative and usually generalised over a given area, say
> >>a state, an in-depth study and analysis of the propositions
> >>enshrined in the almanac, in conjunction with the modern
> >>sophisticated meteorological science will result in the
> >>evolution of a more accurate, reliable and accountable
> >>weather forecasting in the near future. Our ancient
> >>Indians did not have the luxury of sophisticated and
> >>automated weather mapping devices. Yet, they were able
> >>to develop astonishingly erudite and pertinent theories
> >>and principles often without even looking at the sky,
> >>which significantly coincided with the modern findings of
> >>late. The calendar system and time scales in  the
> >>Panchangam are immaculate.  A year with an
> >>Adhikamaasam occurs around 7 times in 19 years.
> >>Sometimes, due to the varying speeds of Earth’s rotation
> >>around the Sun, it so happens that a solar month may be
> >>shorter than the lunar month. This calls for a deduction of
> >>a lunar month from the calendar. This eliminated month is
> >>known as ‘Ksheenamaasam or Kshayamaasam’.
> >>Panchangam predictions maintained a vigorous rate
> >>of positive association with the authentic observations.
> >>This extended from 10.6% to 72.8% in case of maximum
> >>rainfall recorded on any given day of a particular year and
> >>from 14.6% to 93.8% pertaining to the total mean annual
> >>rainfall during the period of study. During the period of
> >>South-West monsoon, this relationship fluctuated
> >>between 9.7% and 78.1%. During North-East monsoon
> >>time, this vacillated from 22.5% to 94.4%. The observed
> >>total monsoonal mean rainfall corresponded to the
> >>Panchangam predictions to an extent stretching from
> >>16.1% to 88.1%.The prediction of rainfall based on the
> >>planetary crown of a given year coincided with the actual
> >>total annual rainfall to an extent of 81.8%. When it comes
> >>to the issue of comparison of predicted dominant cloud
> >>type during a year and the resultant rainfall, with the
> >>recorded measurements, the scope of this association
> >>was found to be 63.6%. Further, the direction of cloud
> >>origin as foreseen in the Panchangam was discovered to
> >>be likened to the real-time observations at a rate of
> >>81.9%. When the predicted nature of wind velocity was
> >>under deliberation, the height of concord with the on-site
> >>observations during the period of study was established
> >>to be 63.6%. Hence, to summarise at a bird’s eye view,
> >>the degree of association between predictions and
> >>recorded data was of the order ranging from a meagre
> >>9.7% to a staggering 94.4% in case of individual
> >>observations. On the whole, the general trend of
> >>Panchangam predictions versus  actual observations
> >>emerged out to be 56.75% (57% (approx.)).
> >>
> >>
> >>THE PAPER CONCLUDES BY SAYING PANCHANGAM AS A SCIENTIFIC WEATHER PREDICTION
> >> MODEL
>

#64492 From: "Sunil" <astro_tellerkerala@...>
Date: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:35 am
Subject: Re: [AIA] present PANCHANGAM AS A SCIENTIFIC WEATHER PREDICTION MODEL
astro_teller...
Send Email Send Email
 


Just now some one is asking how to predict marriage by looking at chart in one quick glance and exmple chart is his sons chart and he is pumping and i am rejecting the mails 

even i rejected with a explanation but he is pumping the mail 

this is how hindus support the dharma ,some one says astrology should b free and other missionary funded section says astrology is predictive gimmick and what ever reference in purana etc is interpolation 


that is situation now 

u need to sell ur ancient property and practise astrology and support this Hindus 


--- In ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com, "Sunil" <astro_tellerkerala@...> wrote:
>
> My answer --Big No
> ever since pricely state s vanished No one wants to practise so many
> fine systems practised in astrology since it is not a paying profession
> any more and not even sanskrit universities are concentrating in it
> what i am asking is our daily nuisance of caldner reformers Like Kaul
> and malla yudha Ji ,does they hav consider this option too or will they
> run for cover saying astrology is predictive gimmicks and predictive
> gimmicks are against Hindus
> I mailed to one ayurveda colledge dean asking what is his opinion on
> astrology in roga nirnya and his exprnce or can he help us in getting
> charts of patients and with heir nature of disease and a brief History
> of disease
> i dont get any reply ,u should think that it needs money ,time and
> efforts to reserch even this matter ,and here in grp all r asking us to
> quench their thirst as if we r some slaves and hence it has lead to fall
> in astro mails frm my side
> i used to help some students ,now no more as they will not do any work
> than we want to work for them and tkeeping us as a free predictior for
> their near and dear
> so fall in standard of subjuct and exalted level of subjuct is totaly
> diffrnt matter
>
>
> rgrds sunil nair
>
> --- In ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com, vchiranjiv@ wrote:
> >
> > Is there enough knowledge currently to make these annual panchanga.
> >
> > Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sunil Nair astro_tellerkerala@
> > Sender: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2012 16:37:25
> > To: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com
> > Reply-To: ancient_indian_astrology@yahoogroups.com
> > Cc: akrishnan08@
> > Subject: [AIA] present PANCHANGAM AS A SCIENTIFIC WEATHER PREDICTION
> MODEL
> >
> > A comparative study between Panchangam and modern weather forecast was
> done
> > >>and published in the Indian Journal of Science and Technology
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>http://www.indjst.org/archive/Apr-12/03_vandeep.pdf
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Following is the conclusion of the paper
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Though most of the Predictions in Panchangam are
> > >>qualitative and usually generalised over a given area, say
> > >>a state, an in-depth study and analysis of the propositions
> > >>enshrined in the almanac, in conjunction with the modern
> > >>sophisticated meteorological science will result in the
> > >>evolution of a more accurate, reliable and accountable
> > >>weather forecasting in the near future. Our ancient
> > >>Indians did not have the luxury of sophisticated and
> > >>automated weather mapping devices. Yet, they were able
> > >>to develop astonishingly erudite and pertinent theories
> > >>and principles often without even looking at the sky,
> > >>which significantly coincided with the modern findings of
> > >>late. The calendar system and time scales in the
> > >>Panchangam are immaculate. A year with an
> > >>Adhikamaasam occurs around 7 times in 19 years.
> > >>Sometimes, due to the varying speeds of Earth’s rotation
> > >>around the Sun, it so happens that a solar month may be
> > >>shorter than the lunar month. This calls for a deduction of
> > >>a lunar month from the calendar. This eliminated month is
> > >>known as ‘Ksheenamaasam or Kshayamaasam’.
> > >>Panchangam predictions maintained a vigorous rate
> > >>of positive association with the authentic observations.
> > >>This extended from 10.6% to 72.8% in case of maximum
> > >>rainfall recorded on any given day of a particular year and
> > >>from 14.6% to 93.8% pertaining to the total mean annual
> > >>rainfall during the period of study. During the period of
> > >>South-West monsoon, this relationship fluctuated
> > >>between 9.7% and 78.1%. During North-East monsoon
> > >>time, this vacillated from 22.5% to 94.4%. The observed
> > >>total monsoonal mean rainfall corresponded to the
> > >>Panchangam predictions to an extent stretching from
> > >>16.1% to 88.1%.The prediction of rainfall based on the
> > >>planetary crown of a given year coincided with the actual
> > >>total annual rainfall to an extent of 81.8%. When it comes
> > >>to the issue of comparison of predicted dominant cloud
> > >>type during a year and the resultant rainfall, with the
> > >>recorded measurements, the scope of this association
> > >>was found to be 63.6%. Further, the direction of cloud
> > >>origin as foreseen in the Panchangam was discovered to
> > >>be likened to the real-time observations at a rate of
> > >>81.9%. When the predicted nature of wind velocity was
> > >>under deliberation, the height of concord with the on-site
> > >>observations during the period of study was established
> > >>to be 63.6%. Hence, to summarise at a bird’s eye view,
> > >>the degree of association between predictions and
> > >>recorded data was of the order ranging from a meagre
> > >>9.7% to a staggering 94.4% in case of individual
> > >>observations. On the whole, the general trend of
> > >>Panchangam predictions versus actual observations
> > >>emerged out to be 56.75% (57% (approx.)).
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>THE PAPER CONCLUDES BY SAYING PANCHANGAM AS A SCIENTIFIC WEATHER
> PREDICTION
> > >> MODEL
> >
>

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