Thanks for this too! :)
Elena

--- In backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer Enberg <jenberg@...>
wrote:
>
> Our 4 year old son carries Camelbak's Mini MULE - he has used in a few dozen
times over the last year and it is still in tip-top shape.   Enough room for his
water, emergency gear, a couple Matchbox trucks and the required Teddy Grahams
:), yet small enough that we know we won't overload him.   His straps are still
cinched quite a bit, so I'm sure he'll continue to use it for a while as he
grows.
> Have fun!!
>
> Jen
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

That whole making sure they know you won't get mad at them for getting lost
thing is important. I know my daughter might actually hide if she thought we
would be mad at her for getting lost, and then she would STAY lost, which would
be horrible.

She gets ashamed of making mistakes so easily that it can be a real issue. So
thanks for addressing that.



--- In backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer Enberg <jenberg@...>
wrote:
>
> Although each of us is sure that our child will never get lost because we will
always keep them in site, as a searcher I know that the best laid plans....
>
> I teach a class for kids, and parents, through our SAR team - the program,
called Lost but Found, Safe and Sound teaches kids how to NOT get lost, what to
do if someone in their group gets lost, and what to do to help yourself get
found by searchers in the event that things don't go as planned.  We teach what
equipment to bring with you and how to use it to keep yourself safe, dry, warm,
and as comfortable as possible.
>
> Our son carries
>
> 1.       some water
>
> 2.       a snack that he can eat at any time during the hike (usually a reward
for reaching a peak)
>
> 3.       an emergency snack in a Ziploc that he know is only for a true
emergency (the Ziploc can double as a rain catcher or puddle scoop in extreme
emergencies)
>
> 4.       a couple of whistles (to alert searchers and to "talk" to any animals
that might be in the area)
>
> 5.       a reflector (which can be made with aluminum foil so it's lightweight
and not breakable)
>
> 6.       a bright strip of cloth (not surveyor's tape as that is often how we
mark search areas) that he can hang on a branch to alert searchers
>
> 7.       a bandana or hat to retain heat
>
> 8.       a contractor bag that can be used as a poncho (or an actual poncho),
and
>
> 9.       a couple of very small toys that he can play with or a kid's magazine
and crayon.  Although it's not on the program's list, I recommend the toy, tiny
stuffed animal or a picture of family that a child can hold close to feel safe
until help comes along.
>
> He also carries a map and compass and we're working on teaching him to read
maps.
>
> Then before going out, we practice using each.  And we go over the tips for
the "just in case" moments - the most important being that if you get lost, stay
in one place!   We've practiced making a "nest" to keep off the ground, and how
to choose a good place to wait for searchers that isn't a "hiding" spot.   And
then I stress to the kids that no one is going to be mad at them for getting
lost, but instead will be so proud that they remembered what they learned and
helped themselves get found.
>
>
>
> From: backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carrie
> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 9:57 AM
> To: backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [backpackingwithchildren] Re: Pack for 5-yr old
>
>
>
> Thanks, I'll check those out. We need to work on what he carries- last time we
went for a little hike he was so excited he loaded up his school backpack with
all kinds of stuff (and carried it without complaint), but we don't want to
overload him.
>
> What does he carry for emergency gear?
>
> Carrie
> --- In
backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com<mailto:backpackingwithchildren%40yahoogr\
oups.com>, Jennifer Enberg <jenberg@> wrote:
> >
> > Our 4 year old son carries Camelbak's Mini MULE - he has used in a few dozen
times over the last year and it is still in tip-top shape. Enough room for his
water, emergency gear, a couple Matchbox trucks and the required Teddy Grahams
:), yet small enough that we know we won't overload him. His straps are still
cinched quite a bit, so I'm sure he'll continue to use it for a while as he
grows.
> > Have fun!!
> >
> > Jen
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Could you pass along those links to the directions and resources? That would be
great! Thanks.
Elena


--- In backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <cwchickenman@...>
wrote:
>
> Yeah, I looked at Tim's site and read that thread last night. I think I might
try making one myself. I found a few sites that give pretty good directions and
info where to buy the stuff. I'm sure I could do it. But in the mean time I like
your idea of layering and the down jacket. Thats a great idea. Thanks everyone!
>
> --- In backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com, R & D McCulloch
<rdmcculloch1@> wrote:
> >
> > Very small children's bags are very hard to find and often extremely heavy.
We backpacked in <20 degrees when our son was less than one. We used layering of
lots of fleece layers (start with the size that fits him and then put larger
sizes, like 2T on top.) We used fleece sleep sacks too (Carter's and Halo make
them). Then he slept in my husband's down jacket, zipped up. It worked quite
well. However - now we have gotten a bit more streamlined. We bought a down
blanket with a foot box. We scoot him down to the bottom and use the extra
material to either put under him as extra insulation or as a blanket on top. We
still use multiple layers of fleece b/c he squirms, but the system works quite
well for us.
> >
> > Check www.backpackinglight.com. Tim Marshall has made several custom bags
for kids in various sizes and people love them. There was a thread from Fall
2009 with comments from several people, including Tim. The BLP search engine
isn't great, but you can find some good stuff about kids equipment if you poke
around (try searching child AND sleep or child AND bag).
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Chris <cwchickenman@>
> > To: backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thu, April 29, 2010 3:52:26 AM
> > Subject: [backpackingwithchildren] Infant Sleeping Bag
> >
> >
> > So I have been searching online for the past 3 hours for a sleeping bag for
my 9 month old son. I can not find anything decent! We would need something
thats rated at 0 degrees, and the smallest bag I can find is 48" long and that
bag doesn't even have the greatest reviews. Ideally we're looking for something
thats rated about 0 degrees, is a mummy style bag and is smaller than 48" long.
Any info on where to find one would be GREATLY appreciated! We need to purchase
the bag within the next week or so. Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

We always dressed my daughter up really warm, lots of long sleeves, pants, and a
hat that wouldn't come off, and zipped two bags together and she just slept with
me. It worked VERY well for us.

She was right next to me and if she squirmed up too far, I could feel the cold
draft and tuck her back in next to me. :)
Elena



--- In backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com, R & D McCulloch
<rdmcculloch1@...> wrote:
>
> Very small children's bags are very hard to find and often extremely heavy. We
backpacked in <20 degrees when our son was less than one. We used layering of
lots of fleece layers (start with the size that fits him and then put larger
sizes, like 2T on top.) We used fleece sleep sacks too (Carter's and Halo make
them). Then he slept in my husband's down jacket, zipped up. It worked quite
well. However - now we have gotten a bit more streamlined. We bought a down
blanket with a foot box. We scoot him down to the bottom and use the extra
material to either put under him as extra insulation or as a blanket on top. We
still use multiple layers of fleece b/c he squirms, but the system works quite
well for us.
>
> Check www.backpackinglight.com. Tim Marshall has made several custom bags for
kids in various sizes and people love them. There was a thread from Fall 2009
with comments from several people, including Tim. The BLP search engine isn't
great, but you can find some good stuff about kids equipment if you poke around
(try searching child AND sleep or child AND bag).
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Chris <cwchickenman@...>
> To: backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, April 29, 2010 3:52:26 AM
> Subject: [backpackingwithchildren] Infant Sleeping Bag
>
>
> So I have been searching online for the past 3 hours for a sleeping bag for my
9 month old son. I can not find anything decent! We would need something thats
rated at 0 degrees, and the smallest bag I can find is 48" long and that bag
doesn't even have the greatest reviews. Ideally we're looking for something
thats rated about 0 degrees, is a mummy style bag and is smaller than 48" long.
Any info on where to find one would be GREATLY appreciated! We need to purchase
the bag within the next week or so. Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

It's been quiet around here lately.  Is anyone still out there?
 
Anyway, I hope you enjoy this trip report:
 
http://www.summitpost.org/mountains-jungles-orangutans-wild-caves-raging-rivers-\
and-erupting-volcanoes/691015




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Great looking trip, Scott!

For myself, my kids are too old, and soooo bored with anything "Dad" -- I expect
to not have anything to post until we get a new list going...
"BackpackingwithGRANDchildren".....

I think some of our newer, YOUNGER members need to step up and post and moderate
and SHOW THE WAYYYYYYyyyyyyyy...  [cue diminishng echo...]

--- In backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com, scott patterson <kesscokim@...>
wrote:
>
> It's been quiet around here lately.  Is anyone still out there?
>  
> Anyway, I hope you enjoy this trip report:
>  
>
http://www.summitpost.org/mountains-jungles-orangutans-wild-caves-raging-rivers-\
and-erupting-volcanoes/691015
>
>

Looks like a very cool trip!!!

Thanks for sharing!!

Jeremy


--- In backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com, "sloetoe" <sloetoe@...> wrote:
>
> Great looking trip, Scott!
>
> For myself, my kids are too old, and soooo bored with anything "Dad" -- I
expect to not have anything to post until we get a new list going...
"BackpackingwithGRANDchildren".....
>
> I think some of our newer, YOUNGER members need to step up and post and
moderate and SHOW THE WAYYYYYYyyyyyyyy...  [cue diminishng echo...]
>
> --- In backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com, scott patterson <kesscokim@>
wrote:
> >
> > It's been quiet around here lately.  Is anyone still out there?
> >  
> > Anyway, I hope you enjoy this trip report:
> >  
> >
http://www.summitpost.org/mountains-jungles-orangutans-wild-caves-raging-rivers-\
and-erupting-volcanoes/691015
> >
> >
>

I am so happy to be here! My name is Marlena, and I am the mother of five - boys
ages 18, 12, 6, 4 and my baby girl is 3.  I take the younger three camping
(solo) frequently, and this summer I am planning on taking them to the back
country.  I am blessed to live in California (Modesto-the "3rd Most Miserable
City in America!") and am only about two hours from Yosemite.

I have enlisted the help of another mother, and possibly along with her 14 year
old (and maybe my 18 year old), we are considering a 14 day trip on John Muir
Trail, portions of segment two from Tuolumne Meadows to Reds Meadow - 37 miles. 
That's an average of 3-4 miles per day.

Here are some random thoughts and questions:

1) The permit process - we will be a group of five, six or seven.  Do my little
ones need their own permits, or does the permit cover our whole party?  How
likely will we be able to get our permit in Mid-June? We've missed the 24 week
cut off. Yes...I know, bad planning!

2) They will each carry their own (age and size appropriate) packs.  Between the
three children and myself we eat two adult portions per day.  How many bear
canisters do you think we need? I'm thinking three to carry enough food for 14
days?

3) Sleeping.  I am thinking two sleeping bags for the four of us.  The boys (4
and 6) will share, and I will share with my 3 year old girl.

4) What is the best (economical and size) water treatment method for us?

Thanks so much!

Marlena

Hi Marlena,
Well to start off with a permit can take of group of 15 so with 1 permit should
be good for your size group Toulumne Meadows shouldn't be that hard. If you cant
reserve your permit what I suggest is go to the backpacker campground at and
spend a few nights getting use to the elevation and try to get a walk up permit,
2nd a bear vault 500 will hold about 7 day of food for one person, you can rent
this and  it could hold up to 9 day of food.  http://wild-ideas.net/index2.html
. What you have to take a close look at what type of food you will be taken with
you. 3rd I might suggest is making a or getting a quilt type of sleeping bag
that will cover two people. 4th As far as a water filter for my part really
depend on your over all need and what you hope to use it long term I use the
StePen Journey.
Also you have to take a close look at the gear that the adults are going to
take. You guys are going to be the pack horses for the group, Take a close look
at your tent and backpack and how much it weighs. Try to go as light weight
as possible.
The first part of the trail is nice and easy but need to make sure you camp out
near the base of Lyell Canyon before you start your climb to Donahue Pass. The
way I see it, should take you 2 day to get over Donahue pass. 1st campsite will
be near the foot bridge the next then near the base on the pass.
Last year I came across this 6 year old girl doing the whole JMT with her
mother. So it could be done with your kids. If I where you I wouldn't go pass
Thousand Island Lakes once you hit the jct at Thousand Island Lake to towards
Agnew Meadow. The JMT trail for that point to Reds Meadow is not worth taken
because of all the up and down you have to do. Good Luck and keep us posted

Ed Rodriguez



________________________________
From: birthnlove <Heylove@...>
To: backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, April 18, 2011 6:32:06 AM
Subject: [backpackingwithchildren] New here!


I am so happy to be here! My name is Marlena, and I am the mother of five - boys
ages 18, 12, 6, 4 and my baby girl is 3.  I take the younger three camping
(solo) frequently, and this summer I am planning on taking them to the back
country.  I am blessed to live in California (Modesto-the "3rd Most Miserable
City in America!") and am only about two hours from Yosemite.


I have enlisted the help of another mother, and possibly along with her 14 year
old (and maybe my 18 year old), we are considering a 14 day trip on John Muir
Trail, portions of segment two from Tuolumne Meadows to Reds Meadow - 37 miles.
That's an average of 3-4 miles per day.

Here are some random thoughts and questions:

1) The permit process - we will be a group of five, six or seven.  Do my little
ones need their own permits, or does the permit cover our whole party?  How
likely will we be able to get our permit in Mid-June? We've missed the 24 week
cut off. Yes...I know, bad planning!

2) They will each carry their own (age and size appropriate) packs.  Between the
three children and myself we eat two adult portions per day.  How many bear
canisters do you think we need? I'm thinking three to carry enough food for 14
days?

3) Sleeping.  I am thinking two sleeping bags for the four of us.  The boys (4
and 6) will share, and I will share with my 3 year old girl.


4) What is the best (economical and size) water treatment method for us?

Thanks so much!

Marlena




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Check out backpackinglight.com.  There is a good kid's section on there and
lots of great ideas for lightening your load without sacrificing comfort.
  There is a great article just posted about a guy planning on hiking the PCT
with his 11-year old daughter this year that might give you some insight.
  You may have to pay for a membership as some articles are not free to the
public, but it is worth it's weight in gold

I only have  3 yr old and a 1 yr old, so I can't give too much advice based
on experience.  The only thing I would recommend is to try and do a couple
one-night trips if possible beforehand to experiment with your gear.  Go
light as you possibly can, by increasing your knowledge of how to adjust for
different situations with minimal gear instead of bringing "what if" gear
for every situation.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

We are looking for a relatively easy, fun 3-day backpacking trip (3-5 miles per
day) in the Trinity Alps in northern California. Never been to this area. Any
recommendations?
Thanks,
Julie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Marlena,
Sounds like a fun and ambitious trip. We took my son backpacking last summer for
the first time (4 years old, 3 days, 2 nights, 3-4 miles per day). I am also an
avid backpacker and have done sections of the JMT, including the one section you
are considering. Hopefully my comments are helpful.
1. Permits - it might be too late to get the permits you want, just call the
Wilderness Permit office to check. Kids do count in the permit process. You
might have better luck starting out of Agnew Meadows or June Lake too.
2. Snow pack - This year is a big snow pack year and mid June might be early for
a trip. The elevation of Donohue Pass might be your only issue, I would check
again with the rangers and ask them.
3. Trip - You might consider starting in Reds Meadow or Agnew Meadows and end in
Tuolumne Meadows. The climb over Donohue Pass going south is pretty brutal and
might not be too fun for your little ones. Heading northbound will be much
easier.
4. Sleeping bags - My son had his own sleeping bag. Honestly, I can't imagine
sharing a sleeping bag, it is already a pretty tight fit, even for kids. If you
are only out for a night or two, maybe you could get away with this. But 13
nights of sharing might be tough.
5. Bear canisters - I would borrow, rent or buy one at REI (then return without
using it) to just see how much food you can pack in it. Then rent the needed
bear canisters at the permit office.
6. Water filter - I use a filter and also iodine tablets and ascorbic acid (to
take the iodine taste and color away. My filter is a Katydyn. Have had it for
years and works great. There are other lighter weight options. I have not heard
great things about the SteriPens. Cold water (which is what you have in the
Sierras) doesn't get sterilized as well.
http://www.katadyn.com/usen/katadyn-products/products/katadynshopconnect/katadyn\
-water-filters-backcountry-series-products/katadyn-hiker-usa/
7. Last comments - In my opinion, your trip sounds very ambitious for such young
kids. If you are experienced backpackers (you and your kids, then go for it). If
this is your kids first or second trip, then a shorter trip might be better and
the kids will have positive memories.A beautiful, easy backpack trip is the
Little Lakes Valley near Rock Creek in the Eastern Sierras, just south of
Mammoth. This is where we took our son. Lyell Canyon south on the JMT from
Tuolumne Meadows is very flat and there are some great campsites along the
river. The Cathedral Lake area from Tuolumne Meadows might be good. Sherwin
Lakes near Mammoth Lakes is also beautiful. There are also tons of options on
the Western Sierra since it is more gradual. The eastern Sierras are pretty
steep.
Good luck with your trip.
Julie


--- On Mon, 4/18/11, birthnlove <Heylove@...> wrote:

From: birthnlove <Heylove@...>
Subject: [backpackingwithchildren] New here!
To: backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, April 18, 2011, 6:32 AM
















 









       I am so happy to be here! My name is Marlena, and I am the mother of five
- boys ages 18, 12, 6, 4 and my baby girl is 3.  I take the younger three
camping (solo) frequently, and this summer I am planning on taking them to the
back country.  I am blessed to live in California (Modesto-the "3rd Most
Miserable City in America!") and am only about two hours from Yosemite.



I have enlisted the help of another mother, and possibly along with her 14 year
old (and maybe my 18 year old), we are considering a 14 day trip on John Muir
Trail, portions of segment two from Tuolumne Meadows to Reds Meadow - 37 miles. 
That's an average of 3-4 miles per day.



Here are some random thoughts and questions:



1) The permit process - we will be a group of five, six or seven.  Do my little
ones need their own permits, or does the permit cover our whole party?  How
likely will we be able to get our permit in Mid-June? We've missed the 24 week
cut off. Yes...I know, bad planning!



2) They will each carry their own (age and size appropriate) packs.  Between the
three children and myself we eat two adult portions per day.  How many bear
canisters do you think we need? I'm thinking three to carry enough food for 14
days?



3) Sleeping.  I am thinking two sleeping bags for the four of us.  The boys (4
and 6) will share, and I will share with my 3 year old girl.



4) What is the best (economical and size) water treatment method for us?



Thanks so much!



Marlena



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes the snow pack, make sure when you do go there is very little to no snow over
the pass. Did the JMT last year had to cross country over both sides of the
pass. Like the idea better going north bound. Shouldn't be a problem getting a
permit
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: J&J Bierle <jrbierle@...>
Sender: backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 09:35:00
To: <backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [backpackingwithchildren] New here!

Marlena,
Sounds like a fun and ambitious trip. We took my son backpacking last summer for
the first time (4 years old, 3 days, 2 nights, 3-4 miles per day). I am also an
avid backpacker and have done sections of the JMT, including the one section you
are considering. Hopefully my comments are helpful.
1. Permits - it might be too late to get the permits you want, just call the
Wilderness Permit office to check. Kids do count in the permit process. You
might have better luck starting out of Agnew Meadows or June Lake too.
2. Snow pack - This year is a big snow pack year and mid June might be early for
a trip. The elevation of Donohue Pass might be your only issue, I would check
again with the rangers and ask them.
3. Trip - You might consider starting in Reds Meadow or Agnew Meadows and end in
Tuolumne Meadows. The climb over Donohue Pass going south is pretty brutal and
might not be too fun for your little ones. Heading northbound will be much
easier.
4. Sleeping bags - My son had his own sleeping bag. Honestly, I can't imagine
sharing a sleeping bag, it is already a pretty tight fit, even for kids. If you
are only out for a night or two, maybe you could get away with this. But 13
nights of sharing might be tough.
5. Bear canisters - I would borrow, rent or buy one at REI (then return without
using it) to just see how much food you can pack in it. Then rent the needed
bear canisters at the permit office.
6. Water filter - I use a filter and also iodine tablets and ascorbic acid (to
take the iodine taste and color away. My filter is a Katydyn. Have had it for
years and works great. There are other lighter weight options. I have not heard
great things about the SteriPens. Cold water (which is what you have in the
Sierras) doesn't get sterilized as well.
http://www.katadyn.com/usen/katadyn-products/products/katadynshopconnect/katadyn\
-water-filters-backcountry-series-products/katadyn-hiker-usa/
7. Last comments - In my opinion, your trip sounds very ambitious for such young
kids. If you are experienced backpackers (you and your kids, then go for it). If
this is your kids first or second trip, then a shorter trip might be better and
the kids will have positive memories.A beautiful, easy backpack trip is the
Little Lakes Valley near Rock Creek in the Eastern Sierras, just south of
Mammoth. This is where we took our son. Lyell Canyon south on the JMT from
Tuolumne Meadows is very flat and there are some great campsites along the
river. The Cathedral Lake area from Tuolumne Meadows might be good. Sherwin
Lakes near Mammoth Lakes is also beautiful. There are also tons of options on
the Western Sierra since it is more gradual. The eastern Sierras are pretty
steep.
Good luck with your trip.
Julie


--- On Mon, 4/18/11, birthnlove <Heylove@...> wrote:

From: birthnlove <Heylove@...>
Subject: [backpackingwithchildren] New here!
To: backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, April 18, 2011, 6:32 AM
















 









       I am so happy to be here! My name is Marlena, and I am the mother of five
- boys ages 18, 12, 6, 4 and my baby girl is 3.  I take the younger three
camping (solo) frequently, and this summer I am planning on taking them to the
back country.  I am blessed to live in California (Modesto-the "3rd Most
Miserable City in America!") and am only about two hours from Yosemite.



I have enlisted the help of another mother, and possibly along with her 14 year
old (and maybe my 18 year old), we are considering a 14 day trip on John Muir
Trail, portions of segment two from Tuolumne Meadows to Reds Meadow - 37 miles. 
That's an average of 3-4 miles per day.



Here are some random thoughts and questions:



1) The permit process - we will be a group of five, six or seven.  Do my little
ones need their own permits, or does the permit cover our whole party?  How
likely will we be able to get our permit in Mid-June? We've missed the 24 week
cut off. Yes...I know, bad planning!



2) They will each carry their own (age and size appropriate) packs.  Between the
three children and myself we eat two adult portions per day.  How many bear
canisters do you think we need? I'm thinking three to carry enough food for 14
days?



3) Sleeping.  I am thinking two sleeping bags for the four of us.  The boys (4
and 6) will share, and I will share with my 3 year old girl.



4) What is the best (economical and size) water treatment method for us?



Thanks so much!



Marlena



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi - I thought I would add a couple of things to this thread.

My wife and I are planning to hike this route in September for our anniversary.
We are leaving this kids home for this one. And we are planning to hike
northbound ourselves and end up in Yosemite Valley, if time permits. But we also
chose northbound to avoid the elevation gains.

Also with the snowpack, our family attempted to backpack in Lyell Canyon back in
2006 which I believe was also a heavy snow year. We attempted out hike in late
June and found snow and swollen creeks and run-off.  This made it some tricky
for us with small children. Although we were not planning to head over Donahue
Pass, a PCT Thru-Hiker did confirm that the pass was snow-covered. We eventually
had to head to a lower elevation when our 8 yr old (at the time) was showing
signs of altitude sickness. It can prove a difficult task to make sure that
smaller children are staying very hydrated.

Alex



________________________________
From: "ed_rodriguez52@..." <ed_rodriguez52@...>
To: backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, April 18, 2011 12:22:41 PM
Subject: Re: [backpackingwithchildren] New here!


Yes the snow pack, make sure when you do go there is very little to no snow over
the pass. Did the JMT last year had to cross country over both sides of the
pass. Like the idea better going north bound. Shouldn't be a problem getting a
permit

Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: J&J Bierle <jrbierle@...>
Sender: backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 09:35:00
To: <backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [backpackingwithchildren] New here!

Marlena,
Sounds like a fun and ambitious trip. We took my son backpacking last summer for
the first time (4 years old, 3 days, 2 nights, 3-4 miles per day). I am also an
avid backpacker and have done sections of the JMT, including the one section you
are considering. Hopefully my comments are helpful.

1. Permits - it might be too late to get the permits you want, just call the
Wilderness Permit office to check. Kids do count in the permit process. You
might have better luck starting out of Agnew Meadows or June Lake too.

2. Snow pack - This year is a big snow pack year and mid June might be early for
a trip. The elevation of Donohue Pass might be your only issue, I would check
again with the rangers and ask them.

3. Trip - You might consider starting in Reds Meadow or Agnew Meadows and end in
Tuolumne Meadows. The climb over Donohue Pass going south is pretty brutal and
might not be too fun for your little ones. Heading northbound will be much
easier.

4. Sleeping bags - My son had his own sleeping bag. Honestly, I can't imagine
sharing a sleeping bag, it is already a pretty tight fit, even for kids. If you
are only out for a night or two, maybe you could get away with this. But 13
nights of sharing might be tough.

5. Bear canisters - I would borrow, rent or buy one at REI (then return without
using it) to just see how much food you can pack in it. Then rent the needed
bear canisters at the permit office.

6. Water filter - I use a filter and also iodine tablets and ascorbic acid (to
take the iodine taste and color away. My filter is a Katydyn. Have had it for
years and works great. There are other lighter weight options. I have not heard
great things about the SteriPens. Cold water (which is what you have in the
Sierras) doesn't get sterilized as well.

http://www.katadyn.com/usen/katadyn-products/products/katadynshopconnect/katadyn\
-water-filters-backcountry-series-products/katadyn-hiker-usa/

7. Last comments - In my opinion, your trip sounds very ambitious for such young
kids. If you are experienced backpackers (you and your kids, then go for it). If
this is your kids first or second trip, then a shorter trip might be better and
the kids will have positive memories.A beautiful, easy backpack trip is the
Little Lakes Valley near Rock Creek in the Eastern Sierras, just south of
Mammoth. This is where we took our son. Lyell Canyon south on the JMT from
Tuolumne Meadows is very flat and there are some great campsites along the
river. The Cathedral Lake area from Tuolumne Meadows might be good. Sherwin
Lakes near Mammoth Lakes is also beautiful. There are also tons of options on
the Western Sierra since it is more gradual. The eastern Sierras are pretty
steep.

Good luck with your trip.
Julie


--- On Mon, 4/18/11, birthnlove <Heylove@...> wrote:

From: birthnlove <Heylove@...>
Subject: [backpackingwithchildren] New here!
To: backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, April 18, 2011, 6:32 AM


























I am so happy to be here! My name is Marlena, and I am the mother of five - boys
ages 18, 12, 6, 4 and my baby girl is 3.  I take the younger three camping
(solo) frequently, and this summer I am planning on taking them to the back
country.  I am blessed to live in California (Modesto-the "3rd Most Miserable
City in America!") and am only about two hours from Yosemite.




I have enlisted the help of another mother, and possibly along with her 14 year
old (and maybe my 18 year old), we are considering a 14 day trip on John Muir
Trail, portions of segment two from Tuolumne Meadows to Reds Meadow - 37 miles.
That's an average of 3-4 miles per day.




Here are some random thoughts and questions:



1) The permit process - we will be a group of five, six or seven.  Do my little
ones need their own permits, or does the permit cover our whole party?  How
likely will we be able to get our permit in Mid-June? We've missed the 24 week
cut off. Yes...I know, bad planning!




2) They will each carry their own (age and size appropriate) packs.  Between the
three children and myself we eat two adult portions per day.  How many bear
canisters do you think we need? I'm thinking three to carry enough food for 14
days?




3) Sleeping.  I am thinking two sleeping bags for the four of us.  The boys (4
and 6) will share, and I will share with my 3 year old girl.




4) What is the best (economical and size) water treatment method for us?



Thanks so much!



Marlena



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Photo trip report from our latest trip to Utah; this time with my 8 year old
son:
 
http://www.summitpost.org/weekend-quandary-photo-trip-report/710680
 
I hope that you enjoy it.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Marlena, I have backpacked with my children but, none as young as yours. 
I am happy to hear you are willing to attempt a trip of that magnitude and
duration.  I will respond to a few of your questions;
1) Yosemite permits are given out on a first come first serve basis, if obtained
in person and if done by mail a certain number of permits are allowed to be
passed out on a first applied for to first awarded.  The permit covers the
group.  If you order the permit ahead of time plan on the maximum number of
people you could expect on the trip.
The permits regulate the number of people that can be accommodated at each
initial campsite in the back country.  Check with the rangers on permits AND....
from the Tuolumne Meadows trail-head, how far do you have to travel before
making camp?  It varies depending upon where you are going to camp.  I am not
familiar with the destinations you are going to.  I only took my children
backpacking at May Lake (great as a first backpacking trip), Tuolumne Meadows to
Glenn Aulin High Sierra Campground and, snowcamping at Badger Pass.  At the May
Lake camping ground, the last week of June 1991, we have heavy rain the first
afternoon and an a hail-storm the second afternoon (4" of hail in three hours! 
Hwy #120 was closed because of the hail, until the snow clearing trucks could
clear the highway!)  Rain & storms in the afternoon are common in the Sierra
Mountain Range in the summer, so be prepared!
Your two oldest boys can carry their full loads plus help you, younger children
with their massive load.  (I remember once a multi-day ski touring trip from
Badger Pass with a fifty-five pound pack with my son!)  The people who coming
with you helping out with the load can be a real blessing.  Your three year old
will have to be carried a fair portion of the trip, correct?  That can be a real
load.

2) The boys 6yo and 4yo if limited to a pack that is twenty percent of their
regular weight, could leave a fair amount left over.  I know nothing about bear
canisters.

4) I use the "First Need" water filter, you will have to research which one is
right for you... capability versus price.

Best of luck  -Adrian

--------------------------------

--- In backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com, "birthnlove" <Heylove@...>
wrote:
>
> I am so happy to be here! My name is Marlena, and I am the mother of five -
boys ages 18, 12, 6, 4 and my baby girl is 3.  I take the younger three camping
(solo) frequently, and this summer I am planning on taking them to the back
country.  I am blessed to live in California (Modesto-the "3rd Most Miserable
City in America!") and am only about two hours from Yosemite.

> Thanks so much!
>
> Marlena
>

We have come a long way in our planning, let me tell you!

We have had a few changes such as I don't think my 18 year old will be joining
us.  It's just how things go with an adult son!  It is disappointing to not have
the extra set of hands and eyes and someone to carry some of the load, but it
may be for the better!

This weather is just crazy!  More snow in the sierras this last weekend is not
GOOD for those of us trying to get over Tioga pass.  I think we'll be lucky if
Highway 120 is open by July 1st!  We are now hoping to start our trip by July 3
(instead of in June,) but we are still waiting to see when it will warm up and
melt that snow.

My hiking partner, Brigid (also a fabulous photographer!) and I set up a blog to
document some of the challenges of planning our trip, hiking and just being
moms!  http://twonuttymoms.wordpress.com/

My youngest three children are very excited for our John Muir Trip.  Brigid and
I took the lil' bits to Yosemite Valley, just overnight, a few weeks ago and we
just happened to be there on John Muir's BIRTHDAY!  We watched a movie about the
"Spirit of Yosemite" at the visitors center that included some information at
John Muir.  I have also come to find out that my four year old son is talking to
his friends, their parents, and his teachers about our upcoming trip and about
John Muir.  It is so exciting to me!

We also returned to Yosemite Valley and Happy Isles visitors center on its
opening day which was also Junior Ranger Day. My little girl is now a Junior
Ranger, too!  Happy Isles is traditionally the "starting point" for the JMT's
212 mile trail to Mt Whitney.  (We will only do a 37 mile portion between
Tuolumne Meadows and Reds Meadow.)

A large multi-family yard sale is planned for next Saturday, May 21, with most
of my proceeds going to fund our trip.  We will also have a bake sale, BBQ and
carwash so if anyone is in the central valley, stop on by!

We have two of our packs, and all of the sleeping bags we need. High on my list
of what we still need to get is our water purification systems.  I would like to
have three - one "pump" style, one of the gravity-type (sorry, I don't know what
its called!) and then have chemicals on hand as back up.  And then there is
always boiling as a back up to the back up!  We are also still looking for a
GPS/beacon.

I'm seriously considering a "dunnage drop" half-way through our trip to bring us
the last 50 (or so) pounds of food, supplies and fuel.  Just one hiker to meet
us about 15 miles from the end of our trip so we don't have to carry the whole
supply with us.  It would only take 2 days, but it's looking like it may cost
around $400 to do so.

I met the search and rescue team at Happy Isles and told them that I really
don't want to see them again!  On a serious note, I was encouraged that they
didn't seem to think that I was too insane for planning this trip.  They said as
long as we camp and stay near the trail, we should be fine.  Not a problem!

I couldn't make it to a Wilderness First Aid class in Sacramento a few weeks
ago, so I'm hoping that I will find one nearby soon!

That's our update for now!  I'm going to see if I can upload a picture of my
newest Junior Ranger! ;)

Marlena in Modesto, CA




--- In backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com, "Adrian" <avon1944@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Marlena, I have backpacked with my children but, none as young as yours.
I am happy to hear you are willing to attempt a trip of that magnitude and
duration.  I will respond to a few of your questions;
> 1) Yosemite permits are given out on a first come first serve basis, if
obtained in person and if done by mail a certain number of permits are allowed
to be passed out on a first applied for to first awarded.  The permit covers the
group.  If you order the permit ahead of time plan on the maximum number of
people you could expect on the trip.
> The permits regulate the number of people that can be accommodated at each
initial campsite in the back country.  Check with the rangers on permits AND....
from the Tuolumne Meadows trail-head, how far do you have to travel before
making camp?  It varies depending upon where you are going to camp.  I am not
familiar with the destinations you are going to.  I only took my children
backpacking at May Lake (great as a first backpacking trip), Tuolumne Meadows to
Glenn Aulin High Sierra Campground and, snowcamping at Badger Pass.  At the May
Lake camping ground, the last week of June 1991, we have heavy rain the first
afternoon and an a hail-storm the second afternoon (4" of hail in three hours! 
Hwy #120 was closed because of the hail, until the snow clearing trucks could
clear the highway!)  Rain & storms in the afternoon are common in the Sierra
Mountain Range in the summer, so be prepared!
> Your two oldest boys can carry their full loads plus help you, younger
children with their massive load.  (I remember once a multi-day ski touring trip
from Badger Pass with a fifty-five pound pack with my son!)  The people who
coming with you helping out with the load can be a real blessing.  Your three
year old will have to be carried a fair portion of the trip, correct?  That can
be a real load.
>
> 2) The boys 6yo and 4yo if limited to a pack that is twenty percent of their
regular weight, could leave a fair amount left over.  I know nothing about bear
canisters.
>
> 4) I use the "First Need" water filter, you will have to research which one is
right for you... capability versus price.
>
> Best of luck  -Adrian
>
> --------------------------------
>
> --- In backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com, "birthnlove" <Heylove@> wrote:
> >
> > I am so happy to be here! My name is Marlena, and I am the mother of five -
boys ages 18, 12, 6, 4 and my baby girl is 3.  I take the younger three camping
(solo) frequently, and this summer I am planning on taking them to the back
country.  I am blessed to live in California (Modesto-the "3rd Most Miserable
City in America!") and am only about two hours from Yosemite.
>
> > Thanks so much!
> >
> > Marlena
> >
>

Marlena, I am happy things are progressing with your trip.  In winter-spring of
1991 we got a good amount of snow.  In the 'last week of June', my family and I
went backpacking to May Lake (9,320-ft. ASL) there were still many patches of
snow on the ground.  What made it interesting was each afternoon we were there,
we had a storm!  The first afternoon we had heavy rain and the second afternoon
we had four inches of hail!  (SEE NOTE)  It forced us to change our trip,
curses!

NOTE;
Hwy #120 through Tuolumne Meadows was closed for the afternoon while thee snow
clearing equipment was brought back out and made the road passable.

Please take lots of pictures?    -Adrian



--- In backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com, "birthnlove" <Heylove@...>
wrote:
>
> We have come a long way in our planning, let me tell you!
>
> We have had a few changes such as I don't think my 18 year old will be joining
us.  It's just how things go with an adult son!  It is disappointing to not have
the extra set of hands and eyes and someone to carry some of the load, but it
may be for the better!
>
> This weather is just crazy!  More snow in the sierras this last weekend is not
GOOD for those of us trying to get over Tioga pass.  I think we'll be lucky if
Highway 120 is open by July 1st!  We are now hoping to start our trip by July 3
(instead of in June,) but we are still waiting to see when it will warm up and
melt that snow.

Here is a trip report from our adventure last weekend.   We got lots of nice
photos.   I hope you enjoy it.
 
http://www.summitpost.org/exploring-the-lecleed-narrows-photo-trip-report/720507


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com, scott patterson <kesscokim@...>
wrote:
>
> Here is a trip report from our adventure last weekend.�� We got lots of
nice photos.�� I hope you enjoy it.

----------------------

Thank you Scott, for sharing those photos on your family in that adventure. 
Your children are good climbers and the weather seemed to be decent.

GREAT pictures! How old are the kids?

--- In backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com, scott patterson <kesscokim@...>
wrote:
>
> Here is a trip report from our adventure last weekend.   We got lots of nice
photos.   I hope you enjoy it.
>  
>
http://www.summitpost.org/exploring-the-lecleed-narrows-photo-trip-report/720507
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

7 and 9.

--- On Sun, 6/12/11, birthnlove <Heylove@...> wrote:


From: birthnlove <Heylove@...>
Subject: [backpackingwithchildren] Re: Trip report with lots of photos from last
weekend
To: backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, June 12, 2011, 8:19 AM




GREAT pictures! How old are the kids?

--- In backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com, scott patterson <kesscokim@...>
wrote:
>
> Here is a trip report from our adventure last weekend.   We got lots of nice
photos.   I hope you enjoy it.
>  
>
http://www.summitpost.org/exploring-the-lecleed-narrows-photo-trip-report/720507
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My life has been a roller coaster trying to plan for this JMT trip, let me tell
you!  Then I read this article:
http://www.mammothtimes.com/content/tioga-pass-open-within-next-few-weeks
indicating the pass will be open by the end of June!!!!! This is great...even
with the 100's of times I have had to rearrange dates and appointments based on
when the pass will open!  At least it WILL open this year!

I'm sure there are some of you who are out every weekend --
who maybe don't have a million miles of experience,
but *do* have the interest....

Well, that's the thing!

A group of this sort is a community
and a community that shares a specific lifestyle: backpacking.
AND a community that shares a specific character: we're all parents of children
that we wish (for any broad number of reasons) to bring up in the woods, to take
up the mountains, to see the views beyond the parking lots...

At this point in time, my "kids" have had *years* of looking back down the trail
calling, "Dad? You coming?" Our BPwC founder Emma -- having solved
cotton-diaper-in-the-outback issues *years* ago-- has similarly been in
lurker-mode. (You know what? Since the economic downturn, I haven't even been
able to backpack for more than 2 nights since 2007. HOLY COW!)

Without having posted to the other "BPwC Leadership", I think (as leaders!) they
would agree: I think it's way time for fresh blood in the leadership of BPwC --
people with fresh experience, fresh questions about fresh issues, fresh (and
laughable) stories of failure, and of course, great stories of success. AND
PICTURES like those from the K-SLOTS Expedition two weeks ago.

The biggest thing is, of course, to spark conversation -- it's conversation
amongst a *community* -- which means we build great relationships, we go
off-topic, we argue and debate, we seek facts and learn and push ourselves and
our children (or we let our children *pull* us) -- just like the rest of our
parenting, and our other communities.

You can do this -- some time, some desire to lead, SOME QUESTIONS to ask, ......

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

You have not rec'd any responses to this? I would be interested in this as well.


--- In backpackingwithchildren@yahoogroups.com, J&J Bierle <jrbierle@...> wrote:
>
> We are looking for a relatively easy, fun 3-day backpacking trip (3-5 miles
per day) in the Trinity Alps in northern California. Never been to this area.
Any recommendations?
> Thanks,
> Julie
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I posted this on another yahoo group listserv, and thought I would post it here,
too.

One thing that I didn't mention on the other list was that when we headed out,
my three year old daughter didn't even make it ACROSS THE STREET from our van to
the trailhead before she started complaining about her itty-bitty backpack.  It
was just one of those parenting moments that I'm sure some of you could
appreciate!

Anyway...here's my post:

I am currently at a hotel in Mammoth, relaxing here for a few days after an
amazing six days backpacking with my kids and friends.

I hardly know where to begin! First, I want to mention that we were NOT the
group from Modesto that decided to go beyond the railing and fell over the
waterfall in Yosemite. We were in Little Yosemite Valley (4.5 miles out) when
we heard the news. The Mist Trail re-opened about one hour before we arrived.
There were several search and rescue folk on the trails, and plenty of news
crews there. What a tragedy. When I heard that they were also from my area, I
was instantly concerned that our friends and family would worry about us. Sure
enough, today I got a message from my dad (who lives in Hawaii) who read the
headline "Three Yosemite Hikers Killed Were With Church Group from Modesto."
Anyway, it was on my mind the whole way down and I am sure that my kids could
feel my tension as we made our way to Happy Isles.

We arrived in TM last Thursday, July 14, hoping to start the next day. Only
five permits were available and we needed six, so after we considered a few
options - either waiting a few days or a different trailhead, we decided to
start at Sunrise (Tenaya Lake) and meet the JMT at Sunrise High Sierra Camp.
Holy COW! We had no clue what we were getting into!

I don't know how to explain it, but I am SO happy I did this. I learned so
much, and things that I have been reading about for months suddenly make sense!
Like snow bridges and post-holes! The first two days were rough, trying to
figure out a routine with my trailmate, only hiking 2.5 miles each day because
of the steep climb (ascending 1000 feet in the first 2.5 miles) and because of
how difficult it was to find the trail at times due to snow.

When we arrived at Sunrise High Sierra Camp, it was suddenly ALL worth it! We
stayed for two days and met several other hikers who had already heard about us
and our little hikers ages 3, 5 and 6. We headed out from camp, and FINALLY on
the JMT, hiking 8.5 miles in one day to Little Yosemite Valley. That was quite
a long day for my little ones, and I am so proud of them. There were times when
THEY kept ME going! The last 4.5 miles to Happy Isles/Yosemite Valley was met
with a mix of emotion, elation to have completed such a journey, but sadness
surrounding the tragedy.

We stayed at Backpackers camp in the Valley on Wednesday night, and there was no
need to even set up the tent. It was nice to have a WARM night and very few
bugs! Watching my three youngest kids sleeping, seeing their little faces in
the moonlight brought tears to my eyes.

There were times that I wanted to turn around and go home, and there were times
when I swore I would NEVER do this again with my kids. But when my six year old
son told me that he wants to do the entire JMT two summers from now, I realized
that he may be hooked! My five year old probably whined the most, but heck, he
does all the time anyway! Most of the whining and complaining happened when no
one was around so I'm glad that no one (except our group) had to hear it! Okay,
there was the morning at Backpackers camp when my 6 year old was not happy about
waking up at 6AM so we could catch the bus at Curry Village and head back to our
car. I moved him as far away from camp as I could, and most campers were getting
up anyway. Anyhow, that's my blanket apology for anyone who had to hear my six
year old throw a fit!

There are many pictures to post, but I just have to wait for my trailmate to get
them to me. That's one of the great things of hiking with a professional
photographer!

Overall, after our hike and after talking to others, I would have to say that
late August would probably be the best time to attempt the JMT to avoid the snow
issues. Unfortunately, my kids start school at the beginning of August!

I'm headed back to the soft, warm bed!

Marlena from Modesto
13 miles of JMT down, 205 miles to go? ;)

Here is our trip report from Alaska.   We climbed several mountains, rafted a
river and walked 150 miles total:
 
http://www.summitpost.org/an-odyssey-through-southeast-alaska/747192
 
I hope you enjoy it.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Awesome trip report! It looks like you all had a great time. Thanks for sharing!

--
Robert Berkowitz
robert.berkowitz@...

Hi gang,

It's been a few years since I've posted to this but since my kids are old enough
to start backpacking now, I think it's time.  The last time I was around here I
was carrying them, hahahaha!!!

Anyway, we are in Phoenix and are looking for other families who backpack so we
can get out for a few trips this spring and summer.  I have a 9yr old who thinks
he's ready to give an over-nighter a shot.

Willing to drive to the right location in the state so if you're in Arizona, let
me know.

Safe hiking,
Jamie D.

My husband and I hiked part of the JMT in July 2011.  We would like to take our
children next year.  They are ages 9 and 12.  I haven't found a lot of
information on taking kids on such a long hike, so I am looking for advice from
parents who have taken similar trips.  We plan on starting in Tuolumne Meadows
and finishing at Mt. Whitney.  They are experienced day hikers and tent campers,
but we haven't done any overnight hikes yet.