----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Xmas Revealed <xmas.revealed@...>
To: Xmas Revealed <xmas.revealed@...>
Sent: Tue, December 1, 2009 3:05:09 AM
Subject: [ Xmas-Revealed ] The Devil Is In Your Chimney!





________________________________

�
The Devil Is In Your Chimney!
Is Santa Claus, Satan? (A Special Report Concerning the Origin of Santa Claus)

Freehold, Iowa - Satan's evil plan has created jobs for hundreds of thousands of
old lecherous pedophiles throughout this Godly country every December. These
filthy homeless hobos just lay on their urine-stained cardboard beds 11 months
out of the year, dreaming of Christmas�when they can drunkenly traipse into the
warmth of departments stores and have innocent little Christian children sit on
their vermin-infested laps. Unwary parents happily snap pictures while Satan's
obesely wheezing drunks ask their children whether they've been "bad" and
whisper lewd suggestions in their angelic little ears with their filthy
booze-breath and cigarette-discolored lips. How many unsuspecting tots have
suffered a quick grope before Satan's little helper moves on to the next hopeful
child in line?
People think that Halloween�is the time of year that Satan dresses up, but this
is just flat-out wrong. See? The Devil will always try to fool you! Halloween is
when Satan delights in watching humans dress in ways that will ensure them entry
into the Devil's realm. But it is Christmas time that the Devil saves for
himself! It is then when he puts on his most devious costume! And it takes no
Sherlock Holmes to see that the Devil's annual disguise is none other than
Santa! He even wears his favorite color -- demon red. Even his last name,
"Claus," is Olde English for "hoof-claws." Lucifer may be the wiliest of all the
deceitful demons that ever drew breath of fire in Hell, but he was pretty sloppy
when he decided to try to spoil our Savior's birthday with this disguise. His
big devil ego got the better of him when he decided to name his Christmas
Anti-Christ after himself. He just moved around the letters in the name,
"Satan," into a sonogram and got
  "Santa." Well, this is to put Prince of Darkness on notice: We are on to you
Satan! And we unmask you and heartily rebuke you!� Get thee hence from our
Christ's birthday party!
Satan once was God's favorite angel. But he tried a heavenly coup and God should
have by all rights killed him right then and there. But God, being all that is
good, gave him his very own place to rule and called it Hell. And even though
God gave Satan free reign to tempt as many people as he wanted (even Christ
Himself!) and lots of fabulous stuff to tempt them with (like eternal youth and
Lincoln Continentals), Satan was still not satisfied. It made him jealous that
Americans have made Christmas the most important retail event of the year, far
overshadowing Satan's own holiday, Halloween. So Satan has tried to undermine
Christmas by making Santa even more popular than Jesus!�
You don't think so? Even the law of the land forbids a baby Jesus�in the town
square, but who is there instead? You guessed it! Santa! Every time a so-called
Christian child asks Santa for something, he is praying to Satan. With each
request fulfilled, parents are unwittingly making a pact with the Devil. They
may as well be writing in blood, "Satan please distract our children from Jesus
with all these shiny toys!" But you know what? When your little boys and girls
have grown up and no longer believe that Santa is real, they will find out just
how real Satan is when he comes to collect their souls in exchange for all those
presents! And God will turn a deaf ear to their pathetic wails of desperation.
God will say, "You were more interested in that fat demon who was giving you
presents than my Son who was giving you salvation, so you can all rot in Hell
for all I care."�
So talk to your children before it is too late! Tell them that Santa is no
kindly old man; he is an evil demon. And next time your family sees some propped
up gin-soaked vagrant in a Mall wearing a red suit with white furry cuffs, set a
good example and witness for the other deluded people waiting in line. Loudly,
rebuke him! Announce to all the children in the store "Not only is Santa a lie,
he will ravage you sexually, drink your blood and drag your palpating carcasses
down to Hell with him!" It is only through setting a good example that we can
put the Christ back in Christmas.
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news1299/santy.html

________________________________

�







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 




 
Great organization and great web site
http://www.ffrf. org/
   

which is your favorite?

these truths are self evident

1. Abstinence Makes the Church Grow Fondlers.
2. Honk If Your Religious Beliefs Make You An  Asshole.
3. Intelligent Design Makes My Monkey Cry.
4. Too Stupid to Understand Science? Try Religion.
5. Theres A REASON Why Atheists Dont Fly Planes  Into  Buildings.
6. "Worship Me or I Will Torture You Forever. Have a  Nice Day." God.
7. God Doesnt Kill People. People Who Believe in  God  Kill People.
8. If There is No God, Then What Makes the Next  Kleenex Pop Up?
9. He's Dead.It's Been 2,000 years. He's Not Coming  back. Get OVER It Already!
10. All religion is simply evolved out of fraud,  fear,  greed, imagination, 
and poetry.  Edgar Allen Poe.
11. Viva La Evoluci br  12. Actually, If You Look It Up, The Winter Solstice 
Is The Reason For The Season.
13. I Wouldnt Trust Your God Even If He Did Exist.
14. Cheeses Is Lard. Argue With THAT If You Can.
15. People Who Dont Want Their Beliefs Laughed at  Shouldnt Have Such Funny
Beliefs.
16. Jesus is Coming? Dont Swallow That.
17. Threatening Children With Hell Is FUN!
18. GOD. - APPLY DIRECTLY TO FOREHEAD!
19. Jesus Told Me Republicans SUCK.
20. God + Whacky Tobacky = Platypus
21. God Doesnt Exist. So, I Guess That Means No One Loves You.
22. When the Rapture Comes Well Get Our Country  Back!
23. Q. How Do We Know the Holy Ghost Was Catholic?
      A. He Used the Rhythm Method Instead of a Condom.
24. You Say "Heretic" Like It Was a BAD Thing.
25. I Love Christians. They Taste Like Chicken.
26. Science: It Works, Bitches.
27. "Intelligent Design" Helping Stupid People Feel Smart Since 1987.
28. I Found God Between The Sheets.
29. I Gave Up Superstitious Mumbo Jumbo For Lent.
30. My Flying Monkey Can Beat Up Your Guardian Angel.
31. Every Time You Play With Yourself, God Kills a  Kitten.
32. If God Wanted People to Believe in Him, Then Why Did He Invent Logic?
33. Praying Is Politically Correct Schizophrenia.
34. ALL Americans Are African Americans.
35. I Forget - Which Day Did God Make All The Fossils?
36. I Was An Atheist Until The Hindus Convinced Me That I Was God.
37. The Spanish Inquisition: The Original  Faith-based  Initiative
38. If We Were Made In His Image, Then Why Arent Humans Invisible Too?
39. JESUS SAVES....You From Thinking For Yourself.
40. How Can You Disbelieve in Evolution If You Cant Even Define It?
41. Q. How Can You Tell That Your God is Man-made?
  A. If He Hates All the Same People You Do.
42. Every Time You See a Rainbow, God is Having Gay Sex.
43. I Went to Public School in Kansas and All I Got Was This Lousy T-shirt and a
Poor Understanding of  the  Scientific Method.
44. WWJD = We Won. Jesus Died.
45. The Family That Prays Together is Brainwashing the Children.
46. Oh, Look, Honey Another Pro-lifer For War.
47. Another Godless Atheist for Peace and World Harmony
48. God is Unavailable Right Now. Can I Help You?
49. When Lip Service to Some Mysterious Deity Permits
 Bestiality on Wednesday and Absolution on Sundays.Cash  Me Out. Frank Sinatra
50. No Gods. No Mullets.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, Judy <cobbie1919@...> wrote:
>
>  
> Great organization and great web site
> http://www.ffrf. org/

Link doesn't work (spaces are not valid in domain names).

> 5. Theres A REASON Why Atheists Dont Fly Planes  Into  Buildings.

There's is a contraction of "there is".

> 7. God Doesnt Kill People. People Who Believe in  God  Kill People.

Doesn't is a contraction of "does not".

> 8. If There is No God, Then What Makes the Next  Kleenex Pop Up?

I thought it was the fact that the next tissue was weakly connected to the one
just pulled out.

> 9. He's Dead.It's Been 2,000 years. He's Not Coming  back. Get OVER
> It Already!

Actually no, if Jesus actually existed (very much doubtful) he would have likely
died around the late second decade of the Common Era so it'd be more like dead
for 198? years.

> 11. Viva La Evoluci br  12. Actually, If You Look It Up, The Winter
> Solstice  Is The Reason For The Season.

Should be a new line, and it's the Summer Solstice coming up.

> 13. I Wouldnt Trust Your God Even If He Did Exist.

Wouldn't is a contraction of "would not".

> 15. People Who Dont Want Their Beliefs Laughed at  Shouldnt Have
> Such Funny Beliefs.

Don't is a contraction of "do not" and shouldn't is a contraction of "should
not".

Aside from that it is very much true.

> 16. Jesus is Coming? Dont Swallow That.

Don't is a contraction of "do not".

> 18. GOD. - APPLY DIRECTLY TO FOREHEAD!

http://cectic.com/113.html

> 19. Jesus Told Me Republicans SUCK.

I thought they were the party of Jesus (or is it God's party).

> 21. God Doesnt Exist. So, I Guess That Means No One Loves You.

Doesn't is a contraction of "does not".

> 22. When the Rapture Comes Well Get Our Country  Back!

We'll is a contraction of "We Will" (but without the apostrophe is something
completely different).

> 25. I Love Christians. They Taste Like Chicken.

Christian babies are even tastier.  I want my baby back baby back baby back baby
back, ribs.

> 38. If We Were Made In His Image, Then Why Arent Humans Invisible
> Too?

Aren't is a contraction of "Are not".

> 40. How Can You Disbelieve in Evolution If You Cant Even Define It?

Can't is a contraction of "can not".

> 46. Oh, Look, Honey Another Pro-lifer For War.

Pro-coathanger would be more like it.

The Atheist Camel

________________________________

Mike Huckabee: Another “Good Christian” with Blood on His Hands
Posted: 01 Dec 2009 09:46 AM PST


Mike Huckabee can kiss his presidential aspirations goodbye. Thank Dog! One less
Creationist Supernaturalist God Fearing mental midget to compete for the
Presidency.

When Southern Baptist preacher Huckabee was governor and head Creationist of
Arkansas he commuted the sentences of 1,033 prisoners… twice as many as did
his three predecessors combined! It was no secret that he was prone to reduce
sentences of convicted felons who testified to having come to Jesus and seen the
error of their criminal ways, thus appealing to Mike’s Christian values. One
would be hard pressed to find many Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Wiccans, or atheists
who benefited from Mike’s mercy.

Maurice Clemmons, the piece of human flotsam that executed those four police
officers in Seattle last week, was a beneficiary of Mike Huckabee’s Christian
mercy. He had written a letter to then Governor Huckabee attesting to his
Christian beliefs and having turned around his life.

Bam! A felon with a long list of crimes on his record, and with a long sentence
still to finish, was released with a stroke of Pastor Mike’s pen. The rest of
the story is the sorry history we are reading about today.

Huckabee had also released a convicted rapist of a teen aged girl, who promptly
committed murder after his release. It would be safe to assume that of the 1,033
good Christian prisoners whose sentences were commuted by Pastor-Governor
Huckabee, some significant number went on to resume their murderous, raping,
robbing Christian ways.

But Pastor Huckabee doesn’t want to own any of this. Why would he? It
doesn’t speak well of his respect for the criminal justice system, his concern
for the well being of his law abiding constituents, his rationality, or his
ability to separate his faith from his duties as a public servant. In short, a
typical religious fanatic whose lack of judgment, common sense and regard for
reality wreaks havoc on society.

We already had eight years of one of those. Been there, done that. We don’t
need another. Perhaps Mike can go back to ministering to the flock full time. He
can start by telling the families of those police officers how their loved ones
are in a better place and it was all God’s will.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A Sunday school teacher asked her class, "What was�Jesus' mother's name?" One
child answered, "Mary."

The teacher then asked, "Who knows what�Jesus' father's name was?"

A little kid said, "Verge."

Confused, the teacher asked, "Where did you get that?"

The kid said, "Well, you know they are always talking about Verge n' Mary.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for you comments. This was copied from a friend, if you would like a
correct copy I'd be happy to give you the site addy of the FFRF, just ask and
I'll send it.

Judy




________________________________
From: bestonnet_00 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
To: deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, December 2, 2009 2:18:45 AM
Subject: [Death To Religion] Re: Fw: [AgnosticsRefuge] Self-evident truths

 
--- In deathtoreligion@ yahoogroups. com, Judy <cobbie1919@ ...> wrote:
>
>  
> Great organization and great web site
> http://www.ffrf. org/

Link doesn't work (spaces are not valid in domain names).

> 5. Theres A REASON Why Atheists Dont Fly Planes  Into  Buildings.

There's is a contraction of "there is".

> 7. God Doesnt Kill People. People Who Believe in  God  Kill People.

Doesn't is a contraction of "does not".

> 8. If There is No God, Then What Makes the Next  Kleenex Pop Up?

I thought it was the fact that the next tissue was weakly connected to the one
just pulled out.

> 9. He's Dead.It's Been 2,000 years. He's Not Coming  back. Get OVER
> It Already!

Actually no, if Jesus actually existed (very much doubtful) he would have likely
died around the late second decade of the Common Era so it'd be more like dead
for 198? years.

> 11. Viva La Evoluci br 12. Actually, If You Look It Up, The Winter
> Solstice  Is The Reason For The Season.

Should be a new line, and it's the Summer Solstice coming up.

> 13. I Wouldnt Trust Your God Even If He Did Exist.

Wouldn't is a contraction of "would not".

> 15. People Who Dont Want Their Beliefs Laughed at  Shouldnt Have
> Such Funny Beliefs.

Don't is a contraction of "do not" and shouldn't is a contraction of "should
not".

Aside from that it is very much true.

> 16. Jesus is Coming? Dont Swallow That.

Don't is a contraction of "do not".

> 18. GOD. - APPLY DIRECTLY TO FOREHEAD!

http://cectic. com/113.html

> 19. Jesus Told Me Republicans SUCK.

I thought they were the party of Jesus (or is it God's party).

> 21. God Doesnt Exist. So, I Guess That Means No One Loves You.

Doesn't is a contraction of "does not".

> 22. When the Rapture Comes Well Get Our Country  Back!

We'll is a contraction of "We Will" (but without the apostrophe is something
completely different).

> 25. I Love Christians. They Taste Like Chicken.

Christian babies are even tastier. I want my baby back baby back baby back baby
back, ribs.

> 38. If We Were Made In His Image, Then Why Arent Humans Invisible
> Too?

Aren't is a contraction of "Are not".

> 40. How Can You Disbelieve in Evolution If You Cant Even Define It?

Can't is a contraction of "can not".

> 46. Oh, Look, Honey Another Pro-lifer For War.

Pro-coathanger would be more like it.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Someone was asking about areas that are less religious, I don't remember the
groups so I'm sending it to you all. The first map shows the states that are the
least religious.
Judy




 
http://froghopper. wordpress. com/2009/ 11/15/geography- of-no-religion/


Geography of No Religion
November 15, 2009 tmso Leave a comment Go to comments
Since today is Sunday, I thought I’d map and review the available data on
people in the United States that claim “No Religion”.
I got interested in this subject last summer when I read an article that
appeared in The Professional Geographer (a Journal of the Association of
American Geographers) titled The Geography of Religious Diversity in the United
States by Barney Warf and Mort Winsberg.
The article explores several cartographic methodologies to show religious
diversity within the United States.  They used four different quantitative
indices to show religious diversity: simple number of denominations present in
each county (i.e., species richness), total adherents who belong to the
county’s largest denomination as a proportion of the total (i.e., Nmax/N),
Shannon’s Index, and Simpson’s Index.  These indices were all developed to
measure biological species diversity rather than a cultural phenomenon but,
well, those are the empirical measures available to the researchers.  Go
figure. Maybe something better will come along as this field of study is
growing.
The article concludes based on these four indices that the religious landscape
in the United States is both complicated and convoluted.  In other words, hard
to map.  Three regions of the United States showed the highest religious
diversity: Pacific Northwest, a broad belt from Denver to Pittsburgh, and (of
all places) central Florida.  But what really caught my interest in this
article was the first table:

From Warf and Winsberg, 2008
This table clearly shows that just over 40%, +114 million people, claim no
religious affiliation.
I was dumbstruck.  Really?  Over 40%!
Yeah, it’s still a ‘minority’, but that’s an awfully big minority.  It
would appear that more and more atheist or non-religious folks who claim ‘No
Religion’ on those survey forms are doing just that: marking ‘No Religion’
on those survey forms.
A recent summary study was conducted by Barry Kosmin and Ariela Keysar using the
American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) data (both 1990 and 2008).  The
results were reported in USA Today.  You can play around with their interactive
map.  It’s pretty cool.
They report a “secular boom” occurred between 1990 and 2008, with over 1.3
million more adults claiming no religion.  Their study (based on random-digit-
dialed telephone interviews) found 15% of the American adult population now
claim  no religious affiliation (2008).
I like the sound of that – secular boom.
Anyway, the disparity of the No Religion numbers between the two studies
probably highlight the difference in data quality and sources (Warf and Winsberg
got their data from a 2002 census published by the Glenmary Research Center and
reconfigured by the Polis Center at the Indiana University).  Frankly, I like
Warf and Winsberg’s table, but that is a completely biased view.    Keep in
mind that the 40% reported in Warf and Winsberg includes everyone that didn’t
claim a specific, traditional religion.
What the two studies highlight, either purposely or not, are the growing number
of individuals in this country that claim No Religion.  Great!  So, just where
are all those infidels?
They are, literally, all over the map.  As we can see in the map below (based
on ARIS data), the highest No Religion populations are centered in the
Northeastern states: Delaware, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont (highest
percentage at 34% – I’m moving to Vermont!), and Maine; and the Pacific
Northwest: Washington, Oregon, Idaho (can you believe it), Nevada, and Wyoming
(wouldn’t have guessed it).  My home state, California, is at a measly 18% No
Religion affiliation.  Well, that’s WAY better than the great state of
Mississippi, doggedly holding onto to religion, showing only 5% surveyed
participates claiming No Religion.  Yikes!  That pretty much ensures that
I’ll never visit that state.

Percentage of No Religion
Black indicates lowest reported percentage of No Religion, states show in white
indicate highest percentage of No Religion affiliation (2008 data).
It’s very interesting to compare the map above with this one reported in the
Warf and Winsberg article:

From Warf and Winsberg, 2008
This is just a simple map showing the number of denominations per county as a
measure of diversity.  The darker the shade, the more diverse.  It’s
interesting to note that the southern states (with the exception of Florida)
show lighter shades, indicating low diversity.  The ARIS data shows those same
states reporting low No Religion affiliates.  Makes one wonder if religious
diversity is good for atheism or the lack of belonging to a specific religion. 
That would be an excellent premise for some young graduate student to explore. 
I’ll leave you with that thought for today.
Later,
tmso







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

�Obama and Tonto---this is a funny one!

�This should tickle your funny bone!

�Barack Obama and Tonto went camping in the� desert. After they got their tent
all set up, both men fell sound� asleep.
� Some hours later, Tonto woke the president� and said, "Kemo bro, look towards
sky, what you� see?"

� Obama replied, "I see millions of stars."

� "What that tell you?" asked� Tonto.

� Obama pondered for a minute then� said,
"Astronomically speaking,� it tells me there are millions of galaxies and
potentially billions of planets.
Astrologically, it tells me that Saturn is in� Leo.� Time wise, it appears to
be� approximately a quarter past three in the� morning.
Theologically, Mother Nature� is all-powerful and we are small and
insignificant.
Meteorologically, it seems we� will have a beautiful day tomorrow.
What's' it tell you, Tonto?"

� Tonto says, "Obama, you dumber than buffalo shit.� It means somebody stole
our� tent."




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jose Cuervo Christmas Cookies

1 cup of water
1 tsp baking soda
1 cup of sugar
1 tsp salt
1 cup or brown sugar
4 large eggs
1 cup nuts
2 cups of dried fruit
1 bottle Jose Cuervo Tequila

Sample the Cuervo to check quality. Take a large bowl,
Check the Cuervo again, to be sure it is of the highest quality,
Pour one level cup and drink.

Turn on the electric mixer. Beat one cup of butter
In a large fluffy bowl.

Add one peastoon of sugar. Beat again. At this point
it's best to make sure the Cuervo is still ok, try another
Cup just in case.

Turn off the mixerer thingy.

Break 2 leggs and add to the bowl and chuck in the cup
Of dried fruit.

Pick the frigging fruit off the floor.

Mix on the turner.

If the fried druit gets stuck in the beaters just pry
It loose with a drewscriver.

Sample the Cuervo to check for tonsisticity.

Next, sift two cups of salt, or something. Who geeves A sheet. Check the Jose
Cuervo. Now shift the lemon juice and strain your nuts.

Add one table.

Add a spoon of sugar, or somefink. Whatever you can Find.

Greash the oven.

Turn the cake tin 360 degrees and try not to fall Over.

Don't forget to beat off the turner.

Finally, throw the bowl through the window, finish the Cose Juervo and make sure
to put the stove in the wishdasher. Cherry Mistmas !




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

UC Hastings College of Law refused to officially recognize the Christian Legal
Society because it refused to admit gays and lesbians.

Reporting from Washington - The Supreme Court agreed Monday to decide whether a
Christian student group's right to religious liberty and the freedom of
association can trump a university's ban on discrimination against gays and
lesbians.

The case could set new rules for campus groups that receive funding through fees
paid by the students.

The justices agreed to hear an appeal from a San Francisco chapter of the
Christian Legal Society, which lost its recognition as a student group at the UC
Hastings College of Law because it refused to abide by the school's
anti-discrimination policy.

The law school said that officially recognized student groups must be open to
all. The university has a policy forbidding discrimination based on "race,
color, religion, national origin, ancestry, disability, age, sex or sexual
orientation" in all of its programs.

Five years ago, however, the new leaders of the CLS chapter at Hastings declared
they would not agree to accept gay or lesbian students or others who do not
adhere to traditional Christian beliefs. They cited the national policy of the
Christian Legal Society, which says: "In view of the clear dictates of
Scripture, unrepentant participation in and advocacy of a sexually immoral
lifestyle is inconsistent with an affirmation of the Statement of Faith" set by
the organization.

So the law school said the CLS chapter would lose its status as an official
student group. That meant the school would not pay travel costs for the group's
leaders to attend national meetings. The CLS group also lost its right to use
reserved rooms for meetings, and the school's website to promote itself to other
students.

The clash led to a lawsuit and, not surprisingly, the two sides differ over who
is the victim of discrimination.

Kim Colby, a lawyer for the CLS Center for Law and Religious Freedom, said a
Christian group should not be forced to "abandon its identity" in order to win
campus recognition. "Public universities shouldn't single out Christian student
groups for discrimination. All student groups have the right to associate with
people of like-mind and interest," he said.

Continued at:��
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-na-court-christians8-2009dec08,0\
,6381342.story





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If Santa Answered His Mail Honestly



Deer Santa,
I� wud like a kool toy space ranjur fer Xmas.

I'v ben a gud boy all yeer.

������������������ Yer Friend, Billy


Dear Billy,
Nice spelling. You're on your way to a career in lawn care.

How about I send you a book so you can learn to read and spell?

I'm giving your older brother the space ranger.

At least HE can spell.

����������������������� Santa

________________________________


Dear Santa,
I have been a good girl all year, and the only thing I ask for is peace and joy
in the world for everybody!�
�
����������������������� Love, Sarah
�
Dear Sarah,
Your parents smoked pot when they had you, didn't they?

����������������������� Santa

________________________________

Dear Santa,
I don't know if you can do this, but for Christmas, I'd like for my mommy and
daddy to get back together.

Please see what you can do.

������������������������ Love, Teddy�
�
Dear Teddy,
Look, your dad's banging the babysitter like a screen door in a hurricane.

Do you think he's gonna give that up to come back to your frigid mom, who rides
his ass constantly? It's time to give up that dream.

Let me send you some Legos instead.

����������������������� Santa

________________________________



Dear Santa,
I want a new bike, a Playstation Wii, a train, some G.I. Joes, a dog, a drum
kit, a pony and a tuba.�
�
���������������������� Love, Francis

Dear Francis,
Who names their kid "Francis" nowadays. I bet you're gay.

I'll set you up with a Barbie.

����������������������� Santa

________________________________


Dear Santa,
I left milk and cookies for you under the tree, and I left carrots for your
reindeer outside the back door.�
�
���������������������� Love, Susan

Dear Susan,
Milk gives me the shits and carrots make the deer fart in my face when riding in
the sleigh. You want to do me a favor?

Leave me a bottle of Scotch.

����������������������� Santa

________________________________


Dear Santa,
What do you do the other 364 days of the year?

Are you busy making toys?�
�
����������������������� Your friend, Thomas
�
Dear Thomas,
All the toys are made in China. I have a condo in Vegas where I spend most of my
time making low-budget porno films.

I unwind by drinking myself silly and squeezing the asses of cocktail waitresses
while losing money at�the craps table.��
�
Hey, you wanted to know.

���������������������� Santa

________________________________


Dear Santa,
Do you see us when we're sleeping,

�Do you really know when we're awake, like in the song?�
�
��������������������� Love, Jessica
�
Dear Jessica,
Are you really that gullible?

Good luck in whatever you do.

I'm skipping your house.

���������������������� Santa

________________________________


Dear Santa,
I really want a puppy this year. Please, please, please,

PLEASE, PLEASE could I have one?�
�
���������������������� Love, Timmy

Dear Timmy,
That whiney begging shit may work with your folks,� but that crap doesn't work
with me.

You're getting a sweater again.

���������������������� Santa
�

________________________________

�
Dearest Santa,
We don't have a chimney in our house.

How do you get into our home?�
�
���������������������� Love, Marky�

Dear Mark,
First stop callling yourself "Marky,"��that's why you're getting your ass
whipped at school.

Second, you don't live in a house, you live in a low-rent apartment complex.

Third, I get inside your pad just like the bogey man does, through your bedroom
window.

Sweet dreams,
Santa




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Why do you continue to send all these silly posts here?

Richard.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy" <cobbie1919@...>
To: <AgnosticsRefugeTwo@yahoogroups.com>; <Atheist_Singles@yahoogroups.com>;
<deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com>; <gayatheists@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:09 AM
Subject: [Death To Religion] If Santa Answered His Mail Honestly




If Santa Answered His Mail Honestly



Deer Santa,
I wud like a kool toy space ranjur fer Xmas.

I'v ben a gud boy all yeer.

Yer Friend, Billy


Dear Billy,
Nice spelling. You're on your way to a career in lawn care.

How about I send you a book so you can learn to read and spell?

I'm giving your older brother the space ranger.

At least HE can spell.

Santa

________________________________


Dear Santa,
I have been a good girl all year, and the only thing I ask for is peace and
joy in the world for everybody!

Love, Sarah

Dear Sarah,
Your parents smoked pot when they had you, didn't they?

Santa

________________________________

Dear Santa,
I don't know if you can do this, but for Christmas, I'd like for my mommy
and daddy to get back together.

Please see what you can do.

Love, Teddy

Dear Teddy,
Look, your dad's banging the babysitter like a screen door in a hurricane.

Do you think he's gonna give that up to come back to your frigid mom, who
rides his ass constantly? It's time to give up that dream.

Let me send you some Legos instead.

Santa

________________________________



Dear Santa,
I want a new bike, a Playstation Wii, a train, some G.I. Joes, a dog, a drum
kit, a pony and a tuba.

Love, Francis

Dear Francis,
Who names their kid "Francis" nowadays. I bet you're gay.

I'll set you up with a Barbie.

Santa

________________________________


Dear Santa,
I left milk and cookies for you under the tree, and I left carrots for your
reindeer outside the back door.

Love, Susan

Dear Susan,
Milk gives me the shits and carrots make the deer fart in my face when
riding in the sleigh. You want to do me a favor?

Leave me a bottle of Scotch.

Santa

________________________________


Dear Santa,
What do you do the other 364 days of the year?

Are you busy making toys?

Your friend, Thomas

Dear Thomas,
All the toys are made in China. I have a condo in Vegas where I spend most
of my time making low-budget porno films.

I unwind by drinking myself silly and squeezing the asses of cocktail
waitresses while losing money at the craps table.

Hey, you wanted to know.

Santa

________________________________


Dear Santa,
Do you see us when we're sleeping,

Do you really know when we're awake, like in the song?

Love, Jessica

Dear Jessica,
Are you really that gullible?

Good luck in whatever you do.

I'm skipping your house.

Santa

________________________________


Dear Santa,
I really want a puppy this year. Please, please, please,

PLEASE, PLEASE could I have one?

Love, Timmy

Dear Timmy,
That whiney begging shit may work with your folks, but that crap doesn't
work with me.

You're getting a sweater again.

Santa


________________________________


Dearest Santa,
We don't have a chimney in our house.

How do you get into our home?

Love, Marky

Dear Mark,
First stop callling yourself "Marky," that's why you're getting your ass
whipped at school.

Second, you don't live in a house, you live in a low-rent apartment complex.

Third, I get inside your pad just like the bogey man does, through your
bedroom window.

Sweet dreams,
Santa




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

I have been enjoying them
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Richard Godwin" <meta@...>
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:15:49
To: <deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] If Santa Answered His Mail Honestly

Why do you continue to send all these silly posts here?

Richard.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy" <cobbie1919@...>
To: <AgnosticsRefugeTwo@yahoogroups.com>; <Atheist_Singles@yahoogroups.com>;
<deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com>; <gayatheists@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:09 AM
Subject: [Death To Religion] If Santa Answered His Mail Honestly




If Santa Answered His Mail Honestly



Deer Santa,
I wud like a kool toy space ranjur fer Xmas.

I'v ben a gud boy all yeer.

Yer Friend, Billy


Dear Billy,
Nice spelling. You're on your way to a career in lawn care.

How about I send you a book so you can learn to read and spell?

I'm giving your older brother the space ranger.

At least HE can spell.

Santa

________________________________


Dear Santa,
I have been a good girl all year, and the only thing I ask for is peace and
joy in the world for everybody!

Love, Sarah

Dear Sarah,
Your parents smoked pot when they had you, didn't they?

Santa

________________________________

Dear Santa,
I don't know if you can do this, but for Christmas, I'd like for my mommy
and daddy to get back together.

Please see what you can do.

Love, Teddy

Dear Teddy,
Look, your dad's banging the babysitter like a screen door in a hurricane.

Do you think he's gonna give that up to come back to your frigid mom, who
rides his ass constantly? It's time to give up that dream.

Let me send you some Legos instead.

Santa

________________________________



Dear Santa,
I want a new bike, a Playstation Wii, a train, some G.I. Joes, a dog, a drum
kit, a pony and a tuba.

Love, Francis

Dear Francis,
Who names their kid "Francis" nowadays. I bet you're gay.

I'll set you up with a Barbie.

Santa

________________________________


Dear Santa,
I left milk and cookies for you under the tree, and I left carrots for your
reindeer outside the back door.

Love, Susan

Dear Susan,
Milk gives me the shits and carrots make the deer fart in my face when
riding in the sleigh. You want to do me a favor?

Leave me a bottle of Scotch.

Santa

________________________________


Dear Santa,
What do you do the other 364 days of the year?

Are you busy making toys?

Your friend, Thomas

Dear Thomas,
All the toys are made in China. I have a condo in Vegas where I spend most
of my time making low-budget porno films.

I unwind by drinking myself silly and squeezing the asses of cocktail
waitresses while losing money at the craps table.

Hey, you wanted to know.

Santa

________________________________


Dear Santa,
Do you see us when we're sleeping,

Do you really know when we're awake, like in the song?

Love, Jessica

Dear Jessica,
Are you really that gullible?

Good luck in whatever you do.

I'm skipping your house.

Santa

________________________________


Dear Santa,
I really want a puppy this year. Please, please, please,

PLEASE, PLEASE could I have one?

Love, Timmy

Dear Timmy,
That whiney begging shit may work with your folks, but that crap doesn't
work with me.

You're getting a sweater again.

Santa


________________________________


Dearest Santa,
We don't have a chimney in our house.

How do you get into our home?

Love, Marky

Dear Mark,
First stop callling yourself "Marky," that's why you're getting your ass
whipped at school.

Second, you don't live in a house, you live in a low-rent apartment complex.

Third, I get inside your pad just like the bogey man does, through your
bedroom window.

Sweet dreams,
Santa




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

CFD (Compulsive Forwarding Disorder).

--- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Godwin" <meta@...> wrote:
>
> Why do you continue to send all these silly posts here?
>
> Richard.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Judy" <cobbie1919@...>
> To: <AgnosticsRefugeTwo@yahoogroups.com>; <Atheist_Singles@yahoogroups.com>;
> <deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com>; <gayatheists@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 9:09 AM
> Subject: [Death To Religion] If Santa Answered His Mail Honestly
>
>
>
>
> If Santa Answered His Mail Honestly
>
>
>
> Deer Santa,
> I wud like a kool toy space ranjur fer Xmas.
>
> I'v ben a gud boy all yeer.
>
> Yer Friend, Billy
>
>
> Dear Billy,
> Nice spelling. You're on your way to a career in lawn care.
>
> How about I send you a book so you can learn to read and spell?
>
> I'm giving your older brother the space ranger.
>
> At least HE can spell.
>
> Santa
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> Dear Santa,
> I have been a good girl all year, and the only thing I ask for is peace and
> joy in the world for everybody!
>
> Love, Sarah
>
> Dear Sarah,
> Your parents smoked pot when they had you, didn't they?
>
> Santa
>
> ________________________________
>
> Dear Santa,
> I don't know if you can do this, but for Christmas, I'd like for my mommy
> and daddy to get back together.
>
> Please see what you can do.
>
> Love, Teddy
>
> Dear Teddy,
> Look, your dad's banging the babysitter like a screen door in a hurricane.
>
> Do you think he's gonna give that up to come back to your frigid mom, who
> rides his ass constantly? It's time to give up that dream.
>
> Let me send you some Legos instead.
>
> Santa
>
> ________________________________
>
>
>
> Dear Santa,
> I want a new bike, a Playstation Wii, a train, some G.I. Joes, a dog, a drum
> kit, a pony and a tuba.
>
> Love, Francis
>
> Dear Francis,
> Who names their kid "Francis" nowadays. I bet you're gay.
>
> I'll set you up with a Barbie.
>
> Santa
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> Dear Santa,
> I left milk and cookies for you under the tree, and I left carrots for your
> reindeer outside the back door.
>
> Love, Susan
>
> Dear Susan,
> Milk gives me the shits and carrots make the deer fart in my face when
> riding in the sleigh. You want to do me a favor?
>
> Leave me a bottle of Scotch.
>
> Santa
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> Dear Santa,
> What do you do the other 364 days of the year?
>
> Are you busy making toys?
>
> Your friend, Thomas
>
> Dear Thomas,
> All the toys are made in China. I have a condo in Vegas where I spend most
> of my time making low-budget porno films.
>
> I unwind by drinking myself silly and squeezing the asses of cocktail
> waitresses while losing money at the craps table.
>
> Hey, you wanted to know.
>
> Santa
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> Dear Santa,
> Do you see us when we're sleeping,
>
> Do you really know when we're awake, like in the song?
>
> Love, Jessica
>
> Dear Jessica,
> Are you really that gullible?
>
> Good luck in whatever you do.
>
> I'm skipping your house.
>
> Santa
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> Dear Santa,
> I really want a puppy this year. Please, please, please,
>
> PLEASE, PLEASE could I have one?
>
> Love, Timmy
>
> Dear Timmy,
> That whiney begging shit may work with your folks, but that crap doesn't
> work with me.
>
> You're getting a sweater again.
>
> Santa
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> Dearest Santa,
> We don't have a chimney in our house.
>
> How do you get into our home?
>
> Love, Marky
>
> Dear Mark,
> First stop callling yourself "Marky," that's why you're getting your ass
> whipped at school.
>
> Second, you don't live in a house, you live in a low-rent apartment complex.
>
> Third, I get inside your pad just like the bogey man does, through your
> bedroom window.
>
> Sweet dreams,
> Santa
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Sorry if I offended anyone. The chat seems slow, sometimes I get cute or funny
emails and I like to share. Even tho it is the holiday season and I am an
atheist and do not believe in it all, I still like to be happy, smile, sometimes
laugh out loud at these jokes and share with others.

From the Group Page:
Description

Don't worry about the name.. we're quite tolerant here. (Speak for
yourself.-Devas) "Reason shapes the future, but superstition infects the
present."


The group description even has a cute cartoon. The cartoons are on topic as
Santa is a� religious representation tradition...��

Sorry to offend, just delete my emails until the season is over. Who knows, I
may not even get anymore.

Judy



________________________________
From: "slwineboy@..." <slwineboy@...>
To: deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, December 10, 2009 12:44:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] If Santa Answered His Mail Honestly

�
I have been enjoying them
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Richard Godwin" <meta@...>
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:15:49
To: <deathtoreligion@ yahoogroups. com>
Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] If Santa Answered His Mail Honestly

Why do you continue to send all these silly posts here?

Richard.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Christmas Facts
 
Saint Nicholas of Myra, the original Santa Claus, was the patron saint of
children, thieves and pawnbrokers.
 
Based on previous surveys, 17 percent of you will embarrass yourselves in some
way at your office Christmas party.
 
A Mongolian wild ass can run 8 mph faster than a reindeer.
 
It's Donder, not Donner.
 
Christmas pudding should be stirred from east to west.
 
56 percent of Americans sing holiday carols to their pets.
 
53 percent of Americans plan to "re-gift" this year.
 
1 in 3 men will wait until Christmas Eve to finish their shopping.
 
1 in 6 men would like to get rid of all the "gift-giving nonsense."
 
A traditional Christmas dinner in early England was the head of a pig prepared
with mustard.
 
On Christmas Eve in 2001, the Bethlehem Hotel had 208 of its 210 rooms free.
 
It's "God rest ye merry, gentlemen," not "God rest ye, merry gentlemen."
 
There are 1.76 billion candy canes produced every year.
 
Kris Kringel, a man in his 40s, lives in North Pole, Alaska, and delivers pizzas
for a living. He drives a 1984 Ford Tempo.
 
Based on a 1999 estimated population count of North America and Europe, on
Christmas Eve of that year Santa Claus had to visit 42,466,666 homes in a
12-hour period — that's 983 homes per second.  




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

http://www.andycouch.com/whitetrashxmas/

It's cute, and rude, and might make you laugh.
Judy




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

No offense to me.  Just more junk for deletions.  No problem.

Richard.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy" <cobbie1919@...>
To: <deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 7:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] If Santa Answered His Mail Honestly


Sorry if I offended anyone. The chat seems slow, sometimes I get cute or
funny emails and I like to share. Even tho it is the holiday season and I am
an atheist and do not believe in it all, I still like to be happy, smile,
sometimes laugh out loud at these jokes and share with others.

From the Group Page:
Description

Don't worry about the name.. we're quite tolerant here. (Speak for
yourself.-Devas) "Reason shapes the future, but superstition infects the
present."


The group description even has a cute cartoon. The cartoons are on topic as
Santa is a religious representation tradition...

Sorry to offend, just delete my emails until the season is over. Who knows,
I may not even get anymore.

Judy



________________________________
From: "slwineboy@..." <slwineboy@...>
To: deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, December 10, 2009 12:44:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] If Santa Answered His Mail Honestly


I have been enjoying them
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Richard Godwin" <meta@...>
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:15:49
To: <deathtoreligion@ yahoogroups. com>
Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] If Santa Answered His Mail Honestly

Why do you continue to send all these silly posts here?

Richard.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Well... the Jews were right.    That Jesus guy was a
phoney baloney.

No wonder the Jews, have been persecuted --- everyone
knew the Truth would come out but, didn't want to admit
it.

The True Massiah;

                           TIGER WOODS

He's in FLA, so look in that direction, fall to your knees
and chant:

            "Oh Great Tiggy... we tickled pink!"

And... repeat.

As soon as this "Ho Issue" is cleared up he can start his
public life... stand on the beach and turn away Tsunami's...
go to Australia and, turn back icebergs headed to destroy
Perth... cure the Catholic Clergy of the Pedophilia Bug...
AND MORE!

       "Know yee the truth and it shall set yee free!"

PS
    Think Elin, can make LEFSE ?????

Hahahaa, now that was some funny shit Judy. Peace, Roger.....A/A




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello, all!

Sorry, been gone for a bit due to end of semester demands.

When I got back today, my mailbox had over 300 daily digests in it.

If there was something you'd still like to see me respond to from the time I've
been gone, please link me to the post and I'll take a look...


I hope all here are having a giving season of family, warmth, and light,
regardless of personal beliefs or religous affiliation....

and a Merry Christmas to my Christian friends!

To my Jewish friends... Chag Sameach!

Hannah

Thanks Roger,
I like to laugh!

Judy




________________________________
From: roger shrum <freethinker05@...>
To: deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, December 12, 2009 4:40:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] Obama and Tonto

 
Hahahaa, now that was some funny shit Judy. Peace, Roger.....A/ A

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Judy wrote:
> Christmas Facts
> It's Donder, not Donner.

Don't forget Blixem.

> Based on a 1999 estimated population count of North America and Europe, on
Christmas Eve of that year Santa Claus had to visit 42,466,666 homes in a
12-hour period — that's 983 homes per second.

Santa is a smart feller. He can manage things around time zones so it
gives him some extra time. Thus, proof he is real!

Hi Clint, I have never heard that before - Blixem I mean. Is that so?
Judy




________________________________
From: Clint <n1n31nchn3rd@...>
To: deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 11:10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] Christmas Facts

 
Judy wrote:
> Christmas Facts
> It's Donder, not Donner.

Don't forget Blixem.

> Based on a 1999 estimated population count of North America and Europe, on
Christmas Eve of that year Santa Claus had to visit 42,466,666 homes in a
12-hour period — that's 983 homes per second.

Santa is a smart feller. He can manage things around time zones so it
gives him some extra time. Thus, proof he is real!







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Makes me wonder if I'm still on moderation here. Mike

--- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, Judy <cobbie1919@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry if I offended anyone. The chat seems slow, sometimes I get cute or funny
emails and I like to share. Even tho it is the holiday season and I am an
atheist and do not believe in it all, I still like to be happy, smile, sometimes
laugh out loud at these jokes and share with others.
>
> From the Group Page:
> Description
>
> Don't worry about the name.. we're quite tolerant here. (Speak for
yourself.-Devas) "Reason shapes the future, but superstition infects the
present."
>
>
> The group description even has a cute cartoon. The cartoons are on topic as
Santa is a� religious representation tradition...��
>
> Sorry to offend, just delete my emails until the season is over. Who knows, I
may not even get anymore.
>
> Judy
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "slwineboy@..." <slwineboy@...>
> To: deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, December 10, 2009 12:44:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] If Santa Answered His Mail Honestly
>
> �
> I have been enjoying them
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Richard Godwin" <meta@...>
> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:15:49
> To: <deathtoreligion@ yahoogroups. com>
> Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] If Santa Answered His Mail Honestly
>
> Why do you continue to send all these silly posts here?
>
> Richard.
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

THE BOOK OF ADAM
(*** Not exactly what the Bible says!)
�
Expelled from the Bible
�
Translated from the Georgian original. Translator: J.-P. Mahe
Source: commissioned for this electronic edition.

1.1 It came to pass, when Adam went out from paradise with his wife Eve, they
went out at the eastern part of paradise. And Adam made a hut to live in. They
both entered (it) and resided there for seven days. They both wept with abundant
tears for they regretted the residences of the kingdom from which they had been
expelled.
2.1 And after seven "days, they were hungry and looked for something to eat.
2.2 Eve told Adam: "Adam, my lord, arise and (go) search for food for me that we
may eat, while waiting to try -- who knows -- (that) for the Lord to accept us
and take us back to the same place in paradise.
3.1 And Adam arose after seven days and went about upon the face of the earth
and he did not find any food like that which they used to eat in paradise. Adam
replied to Eve and told her, "We are going to die a death."
3.2 Eve told Adam, "Oh, if I were dead then God would have accepted you in
paradise!" Adam replied to Eve and said to her, "Because of us a great anger
lies against (upon?) all creatures. (However) I do not know this: whether it is
because of me or because of you." Eve replied to Adam, "My lord, if you think it
wise, kill me so that I will be exterminated from the sight of God and his
angels, so that God's anger against you may cease, which happened because of me:
and he will bring you back into paradise.
3.3 Adam replied and told her, "No, no! Do not mention this matter, lest God
send another judgment upon us because of (this) killing. How could I raise my
hand and cause my own flesh to suffer?" Then Eve told him, "Arise, let us both
seek vegetables."
4.1 And they did not find (anything) tasting like the fruit of the tree which
was in paradise.
4.2 And Eve told him, "God created that for the (wild-)beasts to get their food;
but our food was that by which the angels live.
4.3 Now, come and let us repent in penitence for forty days, so that God may
pity us and then give us better food than that of the (dumb) animals, lest we
should become like them."

Penitence and Second Temptation
5.1 Adam replied to Eve and told her, "Explain to me now what penitence you
(wish to) repent, or for how many days will you be able to repent in your
penitence, lest, perchance, we make a promise to God.
5.2 and we be unable to fulfill the promise which we will have made to him."
5.3 Eve replied to Adam and she told him, "Tell me about the number of days to
me, then; For what period of time will you consider doing penitence -- who
knows, (perhaps) I will add more to that --for it is I who have brought these
tribulations upon you."
6.1 Adam replied and said to Eve, "You will not be able to add (anything to it).
On the contrary, hold to the number of days which I will tell you and keep it.
And I will do penitence for forty days, and you, do penitence for thirty-four
days. Leave me these six days, since were you not created upon the sixth day,
when God completed the creation of all creatures? Now, You arise and go to the
river Tigris; and put a stone under your feet and stay in the water and clothe
yourself (with it) up to your neck. While you pray, (beware) let no sound come
from your mouth, for we are not worthy to open our mouths, for our lips are
impure because we transgressed the commandments, concerning the food [so as to
eat from the tree] of paradise which God had forbidden us.
6.2 Rather, be silent, only do penitence in the water for thirty-four days with
all your heart and I will do the same in the Jordan river, until God hearkens
and gives us food."
7.1 Eve went off to the Tigris river and she did as Adam had ordered her.
7.2 But Adam, he remained in the Jordan river and the hair of his head spread
out .
8.1 And Adam said, "I tell you, O Jordan, suffer with me and assemble all the
(dumb-) animals which are around you, so that they (may come) to surround you
and bewail me,
8.2 not for their own sakes, but for me [so Q,B]. Because God did not withhold
their fodder from them, which God gave them from the beginning, but I have been
withheld from my means of life and from my food."
8.3 When Adam had said that with bitter tears, all the cattle gathered close to
him and stood around him like walls. At the moment when the water (of) the
Jordan had restrained its flow, then Adam raised his voice towards God and he
varied his tone of voice six times, like the voices of all the angels in all
times.
9.1 When the twelve days of his weeping were completed, the devil trembled and
changed his shape and his clothes by his artful deceit. He went close to Eve, on
the Tigris river, and stood beside the bank.
9.2 He was weeping and had his false tears dripping (trickling) down on his
garment and from his garment down to the ground. Then he told Eve, "Come out of
that water (where you are) and stop your tribulations, for God has hearkened to
your penitence and to Adam your husband."
9.3 Moreover, we too have besought favor because of your misfortunes which we
have seen.
9.4 Thus God sent me to have you (plural) come forth and to give you the food on
account of which you repented.
9.5 Now, come upfrom there , for I have gone to Adam and he sent me and told me,
'Go and speak with Eve, my spouse; bring her back to me.' Come, now, and I will
lead you to Adam to the place where he is and where your food also is."
10.1 And Eve came up out of the water and her flesh was withered like rotten
vegetables because of the coldness of the water. All the form of her beauty had
been destroyed.
10.2 And when she had come up out of the water, she fell on the face of the
earth in great weakness and remained lying (on the ground) without moving for
two days. And after two days she arose and the devil led her to where Adam was.
10.3 And as soon as Adam saw Eve (and) how she was following the devil, he
started to weep with burning tears and called out with a great voice and told
her, "Where are the commands of repentance which I gave you? How have you been
deceived again by him, because of whom we are aliens to our dwellings?"
11.1 When Eve heard that, that it was the devil who had deceived her, she fell
down before him and Adam's distress for Eve increased twofold for he saw her
lying on the earth like one dead.
11.2 He was sad and said, groaning, "Woe to you who fight against us! What evil
have we done to you? For it is because of your calumnies that we went out from
paradise. Is it because we have caused you to be expelled that you are angry
against us?
11.3 Or is it because of us that you were despoiled of your glory? Or is it, in
some way, by our action that you are in such deficiency? Or are we the only
creatures of God that you fight against us alone?

Fall of Satan
12.1 the devil began to cry with forced tears and the devil told Adam, "O Adam,
all the greed and the anger and all the grief of my heart are directed against
you because it was through you that I fell from my dwellings, (it was) by you
that I was alienated from my own throne. My wings were more numerous than those
of the Cherubim, and I concealed myself under them. Because of you, now my feet
walk on the earth, which I would never have believed."
12.2 Adam replied to the devil and told him,
12.3 "What is my fault, by which I have done all that to you?"
13.1 The devil replied to him and told him, "You did nothing to me, but it is
because of you that I have fallen upon the earth."
13.2 The very day when you were created, on that day, I fell from before the
face of God, because when God breathed a spirit onto your face, you had the
image and likeness of the divinity. And then Michael came; he presented you and
made you bend down before God. And God told Michael, "I have created Adam
according to (my) image and my divinity."
14.1 Then Michael came; he summoned all the troops of angels and told them, "Bow
down before the likeness and the image of the divinity."
14.2 And then, when Michael summoned them and all had bowed down to you, he
summoned me also.
14.3 And I told him, "Go away from me, for I shall not bow down to him who is
younger than me; indeed, I am master prior to him and it is proper for him to
bow down to me.
15.1 The six classes of other angels heard that and my speech pleased them and
they did not bow down to you.
16.1 Then God became angry with us and commanded us, them and me, to be cast
down from our dwellings to the earth. As for you, he commanded you to dwell in
paradise.
16.2 When I had realized that I had fallen before you,[B, "by your power] that I
was in distress and you were in rest,
16.3 then I aimed at hunting you so that I might alienate you from the paradise
of Delights, just as I had been alienated because of you.
17.1 When Adam heard that, he cried in a loud voice and said, "Lord, my life is
in your hands. Make this enemy distant from me, who desires to lead me astray
and seeks to destroy my race. It is by him that Eve has been lost."
17.2 At that moment, Beliar became invisible.
17.3 As for Adam, he remained in the water and did repentance. But Eve had
fallen upon the earth like one dead. Then she stood up from the earth (ground?)

Separation of Adam and Eve
18.1 and told Adam, "Be saved, Adam, for you did not join me in the
transgression of the commandments, neither in the first (instance) nor in the
second. (But) the word of God will prevail against me." And Eve said to him,
"Behold, I shall so leave in the direction of the setting sun and I will eat
grass like a (dumb-)animal until I die, for by no means am I worthy (of having a
part) in the food of the living."
18.2 Then Eve went away in the direction of the setting sun and she remained
there in mourning and moaning.
18.3 And after these days, she made for herself a hut in the direction of the
setting sun. Now she had conceived three months before, and Cain was in her
womb,
19.1 when the days of her parturition arrived, then she started to tremble; she
wailed towards God in a loud voice and said:
19.2 "Where is Adam so that he can console me in my present pain, or who will
relate my sufferings to him? Is there none among the birds, who would go to him
and tell him, 'Come, help Eve, your spouse.' I beg of you, all you races of
heaven, and when you go to the east, relate my present sufferings to my lord."
20.1a Then Adam heard in the river Jordan her crying of tears and misfortunes.
20.1b Then God hearkened to Adam's prayer and sent him the angel Michael who
brought him a seeds, sealed with the divine seal, destined to be brought to
Adam. Then he taught him sowing and the work related to it, so that thus they
might be saved, (they) and all their descendants.
20.1c And when Adam (had) heard the prayer of Eve and the wailing of her tears
from the west, Adam recognized her voice and said in his heart, "This is the
voice of my rib, the voice of my SHEEP (?); I will arise and I will see why she
cries. Is it that the serpent is attacking her again?"
20.2 Adam arose and followed her footsteps. And he came close to her, in the
part of the West where Eve was, and when Eve saw Adam, she was crying with
abundant tears and said, "My lord, Adam, have you not heard the sound of my
tears? For, today, it is nine days, day and night, that there has been this
crying of mine towards you. Is it that the generations of the east have not
informed you when they arose? And have not the birds of the heavens and the
beasts of the earth informed you, for I begged them all that they tell you about
it. Arise, entreat your Creator to have pity, so that God may answer your prayer
and deliver me from my sufferings or, if it seems fitting to Him, send death to
me or, by your prayers, liberate me from my torments."
20.3 Adam prayed and spoke a plea to God on her behalf and the Lord hearkened to
him.
21.1 And behold, twelve angels and two powers came from heaven. And they came to
the place (where) Eve (was).
21.2 One of the powers came, touched Eve's face and her breast, and told Eve,
"Blessed are you, Eve, because of Adam, elect one and servant of God, for his
prayers are great before God and, because of him, God will deliver you. If you
had not been brought help because of him, you would have conceived such a thorn
that you could not have rescued yourself from your sufferings. Rise up now and
prepare yourself to give birth to a child."
21.3a Eve arose as the angel had instructed her: she gave birth to an child and
his color was like that of the stars. He fell into the hands of the midwife and
(at once) he began to pluck up the grass, for in his mother's hut grass was
planted.
21.3b The midwife replied to him and told him, "God is just that he did not at
all leave you in my hands. For, you are Cain, the perverse one, killer of the
good, for you are the one who plucks up the fruit-bearing tree, and not him who
plants it. You are the bearer of bitterness and not of sweetness."
21.3c And the power told Adam, "Remain by Eve until she has done with the infant
what I have taught her. [so QAC, ag. K]"

Death of Abel
[22]1.2 As for Adam, he took Eve and the child and he brought them into a part
of the East and he stayed there. And when the eighth year and the second month
were completed
[22]1.3 Eve became pregnant and bore another son whom the power of God called by
name Abel, and they remained there together.
[22]2.1 At that time Eve told Adam,
[22]2.2 "Adam, my lord, in my sleep I saw that the blood of my son Abel was
pouring into the mouth of Cain his brother and he drank it without mercy. And
Abel beseeched him to leave him]a little of his blood,
[22]2.3 and he did not agree to hearken to him but he drank it completely and
]it did not remain in his stomach but it went forth and he was smeared with it
and it could not at all be removed from his body."
[22]2.4a Adam replied to Eve and told her, "Lest Cain plan to kill him, let us
separate them from one another,
[23]2.4b and let us be with them, so as to provide no room to anger." And they
acted as Adam had said, and he told (them), "My sons, come and let us disperse,
each to his own place."
[23]3.2 Then God told the angel Gabriel, "Say to Adam: 'Do not reveal to Cain
the secret plan which you know, for he is a son of wrath, because his brother
will be killed by him!' However, let Adam not be sad, for I will raise up Seth
for him instead of Abel, and he will resemble my image and he, so QAC will teach
you everything of which I have a memory. But do not reveal this to anyone but
Adam!"
[23]3.3a That is what God told the angel and the angel spoke this word to Adam.
Then Adam kept the word in his heart. And they both were sad, Adam and his
spouse.
[23]3.3b And the time arrived when Abel was killed by Cain his brother and he =
Adam told her = Eve, "God has established an end for all human beings. Was death
anything else but the killing by which Abel has been killed by Cain and Cain's
jealousy delivered him to death because Cain was of a perverse race?"
[23]3.3c And the times arrived when Cain and Abel had gone up towards their
fields. Two demons resembling Cain and Abel came. One demon reproached the other
demon. He became angry with him and took a stone sword, which was of a
transparent stone [maybe same stone as Ex 4:25]. He cut his throat and killed
him.
[23]3.3d And when Cain saw the blood, he went quickly and took the stone in his
hand(s). But when Abel saw him coming upon him, he begged him, "Do not make me
die, O my brother Cain!" He, however, did not accept his prayer and he spilled
Abel's blood in front of him. And Adam and Eve afflicted themselves all that
time with great sadness.
[23]4.1 And after this, Adam entered his spouse and Eve became pregnant and bore
Seth who resembled Adam.
[24]4.2 Adam told Eve, "Behold, I have born a son in place of Abel, whom Cain
killed before me."
[24]5.1a And again, after that, Adam had thirty sons and thirty daughters. For
all the years of Adam were 930 years. And from him they multiplied over the
earth and settled over it.

Illness of Adam
[30]5.1b And when the 930 years were completed Adam fell ill and cried out in a
loud voice and said, "Gather to me ]ye all my descendants and I will see them
before my death."
[30]5.2 And all his progeny gathered to him who had settled, and he divided the
three parts of the earth among his descendants. And all Adam's descendants
assembled by him, for they had taken a position before his doors, in the place
which Adam had made, and into which he would enter and address his prayers to
God.
[30]5.3 And his sons told him, "What is this, Father Adam?"
[30]5.4 He told them, "I am sick, my sons." And they told him, "What is your
illness and how does a human being fall ill?"
[31]6.1 Seth, his son, replied to him and told him, "Father Adam, what has
befallen you? Have you remembered, perchance, the fruit of the Garden, and you
longed for it and you become sad yourself because of it?
[31]6.2 If it is thus, tell me and I will go before paradise and I will cast
dust upon my head and I will weep. And, if only God hears me, let him send his
angel and he ]the angel will bring me the fruit of paradise and I will bring it
to you so that you may calm your distress."
[31]6.3 And Adam told him, "My son Seth, it is not so, rather I am sick and I
have pain." Seth replied to him, "Father, what is pain and how do you have
pain?"

Adam's Story of the Fall
[32]7.1 Adam told Seth, "Son, when God made us, me and your mother, he set us in
the the paradise of Delights to eat its fruit. But there was one plant in the
middle of paradise, ]very beautiful, concerning which God commanded us, 'Eat not
of it.'
[32]7.2 And the serpent deceived your mother and caused her to eat of it,
because of which, now, we are going to die. When it was the hour for the
guardian angels to ascend to worship God, the enemy deceived her and she ate of
it
[32]7.3a and she deceived me, my children, for I did not know.
[32]7.3b And God had divided (paradise) between us, between me and your mother
Eve, so that we might guard it. As for me, he had given me the eastern and
northern portion; to your mother Eve he had entrusted the southern and the
western portion.
[33].1 And there were twelve angels with each of us to guard us
[33].2 until the time of the dawn, but at each (time, at) day, they ascended
(there). And at the moment of their ascent, the serpent deceived your mother and
caused her to eat of the tree, for he had seen that I was not with her any more
than the angels.
[33].3 She also made me eat of it and I did not understand.
[34]8.1 When we had eaten, God became angry with us and he told us,
[34]8.2 'You have, therefore, scorned my commandment; I too will scorn you.' And
he sent 70 evils upon us, to our eyes, and to our ears and as far as our feet,
plagues and portents, treasured in (his) treasuries. This God did to me to cause
me to perish through death."

Comand to Retrieve the Oil
[35]9.1
[35]9.2 (Eve) said, weeping, "My lord Adam, give me half of your sufferings and
I will bear your present pain, for your suffering is due to me and it is I who
caused these pains to come upon you."
[36]9.3 And Adam told Eve, "Arise and go with Seth, my son, to paradise; cast
soil on your head and weep before God so that he might give us grace.
[36]9.4 And (God) will send his angel to paradise where the tree of life is,
from which the oil flows out, so that he may give you a little of that oil. And
you will bring it here to me and I will anoint myself and I will be healed of my
sufferings.
[36]9.5 Then I will let you know the whole way in which we were tried."

Encounter with the Beast
[37]10.1
[37]10.2 "Woe is me, for when arrive at the day of judgment, all my sins will
burn me and (people) will tell me, 'In the first instance, it was you who did
not observe God's orders."
[37]10.3 Eve called out and told the wicked beast, "O evil beast, have you no
fear? Did you dare to fight the image of God? How did you take it upon yourself
to open your mouth and how have you (thought to) sink your teeth? Or how have
you not recalled the first order of God and have opened your mouth against the
image of God?"
[38]11.1 Then the beast replied to her and told Eve, "It is not from our
greed(iness) that your discontent and your weeping come, but your discontent and
your weeping come from your own greed(iness), for at the beginning of creation,
it was you who hearkened to the beast, the serpent.
[38]11.2 How did you dare to open your mouth and eat of the tree of which God
had commanded you not to eat? (It is) you, (because of) whom (Mahe emmendation)
the aspect of everything has changed.
[38]11.3 Now, you will not be able to endure, if I start talking and rebuking
you."
[39]12.1 Seth replied to him and told the beast, "Let your mouth be closed and
be silent, beast, and get away from us, the image of the divinity, until the day
when God will have you standing (before him)."
[39]12.2 Then also the beast told Seth, "Behold, then, that I get away from you,
image of God, dazzling (splendor) of God." And when the beast had left him
(her?), the beast fled (far) from Seth and the wounded man went to the hut of
Adam his father."

Arrival at Paradise
[40]13.1
[41]13.2a (And God sent to them the archangel Michael), who is in charge of the
souls, and he told Seth,
[41]13.2b "Man of God, do not labor to supplicate thus concerning the olive
tree, in command to anoint your father Adam.

Michael's Reply
[42]13.3 This is not to be right now but in the future times, when five thousand
years will be completed. Then, at the five and a half thousandth year, the
beloved son of God, Christ, will come upon the earth to r(esurrect) Adam's body
from his fall, because of the transgression of the commands.
[42]13.4 He will come and he will be baptized in the river Jordan. And as soon
as he will have come forth from of the water with the (anointing) of oil, he
will anoint him, him
[42]13.5 and all his descendants, so that they will rise at the time of the
resurrection. The Lord said, 'I will admit them into paradise and I will anoint
them with that unction.'

Return to Adam
[43]13.6 But now, go to your father Adam, because the days of his times are
completed. (In) three days his soul will go out of his body and numerous wonders
will be seen in the heavens."
[44]14.1 When the angel had told that to him, (immediately) he was hidden
underneath the plant of paradise. Now (as for) Seth and Eve they departed for
Adam's hut. And Adam wept because of the wound of the beast

Adam's Rebuke of Eve
[44]14.2 and he told Eve, "What have (all of) us done? For an evil has come upon
us and upon all our descendants.
[44]14.3 Indeed, tell your children what are your sins: for we will die, you and
I, and misfortunes will spread over the earth. All the descendants who have come
forth from us will curse us saying,
[44]14.4 'It was our father and mother who brought this misfortune upon us.'"

The Portions of Adam and Eve in Paradise
[44]15.1 Then Eve began to cry and she said, "Now hearken to me, my children,
and I will tell you how we were tricked.
[44]15.2 It happened, (then), that your father was guarding his portion of
paradise, the east and the north,
[44]15.3 while I was guarding my own portion, the west and the south. And the
devil came to Adam's portion. And there were beasts there
[44]15.4 for the Lord had also divided the beasts between us. All (that were)
male He had given to Adam, and all (that were) female, he had given to me. And
we each fed our own ones.

Satan's Encounter with the Beast
[44]16.1 When the devil came to your father's portion
[44]16.2 the devil summoned the serpent and told him, "Arise and come to me, and
I will teach you a useful word."
[44]16.3a Then, the serpent came and the Devil told the serpent, "I (hear) that
you are wiser than all the (dumb) animals and I have come to test your wisdom
(science), for Adam gives food to all the (dumb-)animals, thus also to you.
(mahe has note that is unexplained)
[44]16.3b When then all the (dumb) animals come to bow down before Adam from day
to day and from morning to morning, every day, you also come to bow down. You
were created before him, as large (as you) are, and you bow down before this
little one!
[44]16.3c And why do you eat (food) inferior to Adam's and his spouse's and not
the good fruit of paradise? But come and hearken to me so that we may have Adam
expelled from the wall of paradise just as we are outside. Perhaps we can
re-enter somehow to paradise."
[44]16.4 And the serpent told him, "How can we have them excluded?" The devil
replied and told the serpent, "Be a sheath for me and I will speak to the woman
through your mouth a word by which we will trick (them)."

Serpent's Approach to Paradise
[44]17.1 And the two of them came together and they allowed their heads to hang
on the wall of the paradise at the time where the angels had ascended to bow
down to God. Then the devil changed himself into the image of an angel; he
praised the praises of the angels. And I was gazing in the direction of the
enclosure to hear the praises.
[44]17.2a I stared and I saw him like an angel and at once he became invisible
[44]17.2b for he had gone forth to bring the serpent. And he told him, 'Arise
and come and I will be with you and I will speak though your mouth that which it
is proper for you to say.'
[44]17.2c He took on the form of the serpent (to go) close to the wall of
paradise and the devil slipped inside the serpent and he allowed his head to
hang on the wall of paradise. He cried out and said, 'Shame on you, woman, you
who are in the the paradise of Delight (and) who are blind! Come to me and I
will tell you a certain secret word.'
[44]17.2d And when I had come, he told me, 'Eve!' and I told him, 'Here I am.'
He replied to me and told me, 'What do you do in paradise?"
[44]17.3 I replied and told him, 'God has set me to guard paradise and eat (of
it).'
[44]17.4 The devil replied to me and told me through the mouth of the serpent,
'Well (done!) Do you eat the fruit of every tree which is in paradise?'
[44]17.5 I replied to him and told him, '(Yes), we eat all the fruit except for
only one tree which is here in the middle of paradise, for God commanded us, 'Do
not eat of it, so that you will not die of death.'

Temptation of Eve
[44]18.1 Then the serpent told me, 'I am distressed for you, for you are like
the (dumb) animals. God was jealous of you and he has not permitted you, but I,
I do not desire your ignorance. Rather come, eat and you will see the glory
which is to be with you.'
[44]18.2 However, I told him, 'I am afraid of dying, perhaps, as God said.'
[44]18.3 The serpent replied to me and told me, 'What is death and how does one
die? Death is life!' I replied to him and told him, 'I do not know.' He replied
to me and told me, 'God is living, just so that you (pl.) will not die, but at
the moment when you (pl.)eat your eyes will be opened and you will be
instructed, like God, about good and evil.
[44]18.4 God knew that you would become like him (unexplained *) and God was
jealous of you. Because of that God told you, 'Do not eat of it!'
[44]18.5 Look at (so Mahe emmendation) the tree and see the glory around it.' As
for me, when I had gone and I had seen its glory around it, then I said,
[44]18.6 'This tree is good and its fruit is well-known in my eyes. However, I
am afraid to stretch out my hand and take (it). But you, if you are not afraid,
bring it out to me and I will eat (of it) and I will know whether your (present)
words are true or not.' The serpent replied to and told me, 'Come, open the gate
and I will give you of it.'

Entrance of the Snake into Paradise
[44]19.1 And when I had gone to open the gate for him and he had entered
Paradise, he went forth, and then he stopped a little. I replied to him and
said, 'Why have you stopped?' But he, my children, began to use trickery with
me. He replied to me and told me, 'If I have stopped it is because I changed my
mind for fear that, perhaps if I should give you of it and you eat it, and your
eyes will be opened and you will become like God, and you will know good and
evil, and you will become prideful and become jealous of Adam and you will not
make him eat of it, and he will be like a (dumb) animal before you, as you were
before God, because God was jealous of you. If you wish (it), swear to me truly
that, if I make you eat it, you will not be jealous of Adam, your husband, but
will make him eat of it and give of it also to him.'
[44]19.2 I replied to him and told him, 'I do not know any oath, how could I
swear to you?' And he told me, 'Say: I swear by the plants of paradise and by
the Cherubs upon whom sits the Father and (upon which) he descends to paradise,
that if I eat and know it all, I will not be jealous but will give of it also to
Adam."
[44]19.3 And when he had made me take the oath, he bound me (to it), gave me of
the tree and I ate it.

Eve's Recognition of Her Sin
[44]20.4 [... (I was searching for leaves to cover)..] my nakedness and found
none on all the trees, for at the moment at which I had eaten, the leaves from
all the trees of paradise, in my portion, fell down.
[44]20.5 I took some and made a covering for myself and stood by the tree of
which I had eaten, my children. I was afraid because of the oath which I had
sworn by paradise and in which I had said, 'I will make Adam eat of it as well.'

Temptation of Adam
[44]21.2 Then your father Adam came. He had thought thus: that a beast had
entered paradise and he told me, 'What are you thinking for and why do you have
this fig-leaf on yourself?'
[44]21.3 I replied to him and I told him, 'Do you wish me to tell you something
or not? Until today we were like (dumb-) animals. When I understood (that of
which) the Lord had said to us, 'Do not eat of this' and when I saw its
splendor, I took of it and ate of it and I knew good and evil. Now, eat also of
it and you will you become like God.'
[44]21.4a Adam replied to me and told me, 'I fear lest God be angry with me and
tell me, "My commandment which I gave you, you did not keep it!"'
[44]21.4b But I told the father, "On me shall be this blame. If He asks you, say
thus: 'This woman whom you have given me is to blame for that; (she said:) See
the flavor of this glory.'!
[44]21.5 Then I gave him of it and he ate of it and became like me, and he also
took a leaf of the fig tree and covered his nakedness with it.

Entry of God into Paradise
[44]22.1 After which we heard that, through an angel, (God) blew the trumpet. He
(had) summoned the angels and told them,
[44]22.2 "Thus says the Lord, come to paradise and hear the sentence to which we
are going to judge (them)." Adam (told me), "We have sinned, for God is going to
come to judge us." We were afraid and we hid.
[44]22.3 And God came to paradise sitting upon the Cherubs and the angels were
singing hymns before him. When he had arrived at paradise, at once all (the)
tree(s) cast off their (its) foliage,
[44]22.4 and thrones were set up near the tree of life.
[44]23.1 And God summoned Adam and told him, "Adam, Adam, where are you? Are you
hiding from me? Or how will a house hide from its builder? Or why have you
hidden near the tree of paradise?"
[44]23.2 Then your father replied and told the Lord, "I have hidden because I am
afraid: I am naked and I am ashamed."
[44]23.3 God replied to him and told him, "Who told you that you are naked? Have
you scorned the commandment which I gave you?"
[44]23.4 Then Adam remembered my word(s) which I had said, "Do not be concerned
for (the blame) for it will lie upon me." And Adam said, "Lord, it is this woman
whom you gave to me who deceived me." Then He turned towards me and told me,
"What have you done?"
[44]23.5 And I remembered the serpent's word and I said, "It is the serpent who
deceived me!"

Judgment of Adam, Eve, and the Serpent
[44]24.1 God replied to Adam and told him, "Because you hearkened to your wife
and disobey my commandment, let the earth be cursed in your deeds.
[44]24.2 May you work it and it will give you no fruit; it will sprout only
thorns and thistles for you. By the sweat of your brow you shall eat bread.
[44]24.3 May you be with many sighs, labor in labors and you shall have (no)
rest. You shall hunger and you shall (not) be sated. You shall be affected by
bitterness and you shall (not) taste sweetness; you shall be tomrented by heat
and will undergo cold; you (pl.) shall be pauperized and you shall (not) be
enriched; you shall eat and shall (not) grow fat; you shall warm yourselves with
fire, and you shall not be heated. You will ???? (to soak) yourselves with water
and it will draw back.
[44]24.4 And the beasts over whom you (sing.) ruled shall rise up against you.
You shall be weakened because you have not kept my commandments."
[44]25.1 God turned to me and told me, "Why did you hearken to the serpent and
abandon my commandments with which I commanded to you? (May you) be in toils and
pains;
[44]25.2 (may you) give birth to many fruits and when you give birth to them you
will despair of your life because of the torments and pains.
[44]25.3 (You shall promise yourself) that if you are ever delivered from the
agonies, you will never go back to (your husband) and you will harden your heart
in view of the great combat which the serpent instituted with you.
[44]25.4 (But may you) return at once to the same point, may you bear your
offspring in hurt and return in pity to your husband, and he will rule over
you."
[44]26.1 When he had said all this to me, he became very angry with the serpent,
and he told it, "You, too, perish and be cursed among all the (dumb) animals.
[44]26.2 May you be withheld from you food which you used to eat and may the
soil be to you as food all the days of your life; you shall go on your breast
and on your stomach; your hands and your feet will be taken from you.
[44]26.3 May you have neither ears nor nails and may not even one limb remain
for you. Let the precious cross which my Son will take upon the earth condemn
you because of the deceit by which you deceived Adam. But may you again be
crushed and broken because of the evil of your heart.
[44]26.4 And I will set enmity between you and the offspring of the woman: she
will lay in wait for your head and you will lay in wait for her heel until the
day of judgment."

Adam's Plea for Mercy
[44]27.1 Thus God said, and he commanded both of us to be expelled from
paradise.
[44]27.2 Adam besought the angels and told them, "Wait for me to beseech the
Lord; who knows, perhaps the Lord will grant me a penitence for that which I
have done and I will not go out of paradise."
[44]27.3 Then the angels waited for us to ask. Adam besought the Lord and said,
"I beseech you, Lord, pardon me for what I have done."
[44]27.4 Then the Lord told the angels, "Why have you been waiting (before)
separating Adam from paradise? Is the blame mine (Am I to blame) or have I not
judged justly?"
[44]27.5 Then the angels fell to the ground and told him, bowing before the
Lord, "You are just, Lord, and you sentence is upright."
[44]28.1 The Lord turned and told Adam, "You are not to remain in paradise."
[44]28.2 Adam replied to the Lord and told him, "I beseech you, Lord, give me of
the tree of life so that I may eat before I have gone forth."
[44]28.3 Then the Lord addressed a speech to Adam and told him, "You will not
take any of it anymore in your lifetime. I have posted burning Cherubs and a
turning sword to keep it from you, lest you should taste it and become immortal
and boast saying, 'I shall not die ever'; and you will conduct the fight which
the enemy has conducted against you.
[44]28.4 If you go out of paradise and guard yourself from every evil, you will
die and after death you will arise in the future resurrection. Then, indeed, I
will give you of the tree of life and you will be immortal for ever."

Expulsion
[44]29.1 When the Lord had said that he commanded us to be chased out of
paradise.
[44]29.2 And your father wept before the angels, but they told him, "What is
this or what shall we do for you?"
[44]29.3 Then your father replied to them and told them, "Behold, I am going
out. Now I beseech you that at the very moment of my leaving paradise I may take
incense from paradise so that, when I go out, I may offer a sweet odered
incense-fragrance and God will be willing to hearken to me."
[44]29.6 And the angels let him and he took four sweet odered
incenses-fragrances: nard, saffron, reed, cinnamon; that is what Adam brought
from paradise onto the earth.

Death of Adam
[44]30.1 Now, therefore, my children I have taught you the whole way in which we
were tricked and I beseech you to watch yourselves and not to stop doing good.'
[45]31.1 That, then, is what Eve said in the midst of her children when Adam was
lying ill. And on the second day his soul was about to go out of his body. Eve
told Adam,
31.2 "Why are you alone dying and I am alive? Or, how long shall I exist? Or,
what will become of me after your death? Let me know about me that."
[45]31.3 Then Adam told Eve, "Be not concerned, whatever you have done. If we
must both die, you too will be set near me. And if I am to die alone, do not
move me from my place until God gives you an command about me,
[45]31.4 for the Lord will not forget me, but rather he will seek out the vessel
which he has made. Arise and pray a prayer to God that my soul be commended into
the hands of my Creator. For I do not know how I am going to reach the Creator
of all, or whether he is angry with me or whether he will accept me."

Eve's Confession
[45]32.1 Then Eve arose and went out from Adam('s place). She did penitance and
said,
[45]32.2 "I have sinned against you, God; I have sinned against you and I have
sinned before you. I have sinned before your elect angels. I have sinned before
the Cherubs. I have sinned before the altar of your holiness. I have sinned
before the generations of the heavens. I have sinned before the birds of
heavens. I have sinned before the beasts of the earth. I have sinned against
you, God, by all my greed, among all your creatures. I beseech you all, you
creatures of heaven and earth, beseech the Lord of all for me."
[45]32.3 While Eve was on her (knees) to pray, suddenly Michael came, the angel
of mankind, he stood and raised Eve up, and told her,
[45]32.4 "Arise from that penitence, for Adam your husband has gone forth from
the body. Arise and see his soul, how his Creator has already (got) it."

Angelic Liturgy
[45]33.1 Eve arose and put her hand on her face and the angel went up again, and
he told Eve, "Raise you eyes and abandon earthly concerns."
[45]33.2 As for Eve, when she had raised her eyes towards the heavens, she saw
chariots of fire and a light which went up, (borne) by four (winds): they were
so resplendent that no word could express it, and it was impossible to sound
them out, neither from the front nor from the back. And angels were proceeding
before these chariots.
[45]33.3 And when they had arrived (at the place) where the father was, the
chariot stopped and the Seraphs stood between him and the chariot(s).
[45]33.4 And I, Eve, saw three gold censers, and (three) cups and three angels
come quickly upon the altar. These angels took a burning coal and put it in the
censer and set the censer upon (the altar). And while they blew, the smoke went
up and veiled the frimaments of the heavens.
[45]33.5 the angels were praising (God), they were bowing before him, crying out
and saying, "God, forgive Adam for he is your image and the work of your hands:
he is your creature."
[46]34.1 And I, Eve, saw two great lights prostrated in fear before God and I
wept and told my son Seth,
[46]34.2 Rise from near your father's body, come towards me and see that which
your eyes have not seen, concerning Adam your father."
[46]35.1 Then Seth arose and went close to his mother Eve and told her, "Why are
you weeping?
[46]35.2 Raise your eyes and see the seven firmaments open and see the likeness
of the father Adam, as he lies before God and all the angels are beseeching him
and saying, 'God, forgive Adam, for he is your image and your likeness, because
it is you who have created him.'"
[46]35.3 "What is this, then, my son Seth,
[46]35.4 do they deliver the blood of my spouse to these Indians, for they were
before God?" Seth replied to Eve and told her, "No, mother, did you not
recognize those whom you called Indians in these colours of blood?" Eve replied
to him and told him, "I do not know them, my son."
[46]36.1 Seth replied to her and told her, "These are the sun and the moon: they
are prostrated and they are beseeching for Adam, my father."
[46]36.2 "Where is the light of the sun, for it is no more with it, or why is it
darkened thus?"
[46]36.3 Seth replied to her and told Eve, "Because its light has been eclipsed
before the God of all and its light had become darkened by fear of God."

Assumption of Adam to Paradise
[47]37.1 As Seth was telling that to Eve, at once a great angel blew the trumpet
and all the angels who were prostrated on their faces stood up again. They
besought Adam and cried out in a loud voice, and said,
[47]37.2 "Blessed is God, by all blessing. You pardoned the protoplast."
[47]37.3 And when the angels had said these words, one of the six-winged Seraphs
was sent towards him (Adam). He took Adam to the lake of (A)cheron,
[47]37.4 and he dipped him in it three times. Then he led him back before God
and (Adam) remained (prostrate) on his face for three hours. And after that, God
stretched out his hand from his Throne, raised Adam up and gave him to Michael,
and he told him,
[47]37.5 "Take him to the third heaven, to paradise, and set him before the
altar until the day of the "oikonomia" which I contemplate concerning all the
fleshly (beings) with my well beloved Son."
[47]37.6 Then Michael took Adam to the place which God had commanded and all the
angels were chanting angelic psalms. They were praising this wonder: the
forgiveness of Adam and the promise of a future (life).

Adam and Abel's Funerary Rites
[47]38.1 After which Michael cried out towards God,
[47]38.2 and God commanded that the trumpet be sounded and that all the angels
assemble before God, each one in his rank: those who held a censer; those who
held a psaltery; and those who sounded the trumpet.
[47]38.3 And behold, the Lord of Sabaoth rose upon the winds of the Cherubs, and
[47]37.1
[47]38.4 And (God) first reached his paradise, and the flowers of paradise, with
their sweet odors, were moved at the sweet odor of the glorious God. All the
children of Adam were breathless, except only for Seth, for he was son of the
greatness of God.
[47]39.1 And when the Lord had come to the body of Adam which had fallen in (the
earth), the Lord was sorrowful for him and told him in a sad voice, "If you had
kept my commandments, you would not have fallen in that place and your enemy
would not have been able to see that he had caused you to be expelled in that
place.
[47]39.2 But I will change his joy into sorrow and I will lead you back towards
this realm and I will set you upon your enemy's throne, where he was seated,
close (by the place) where his rebellion was discovered.
[47]39.3 He will fall in the place (where) you (are) and he will see you in that
(other) place sitting upon a throne."
[48]40.1 And after that, God gave an command to Michael
[48]40.2 who took (Adam) back to paradise, which is in the third heaven. They
seized three folded shrouds of (cloth) and God told Michael and Gabriel, "Unfold
these shrouds and envelop Adam's body and take the ointment from the olive tree
and pour it upon him." And three angels dressed him (in it) and when they had
dressed Adam's body (in it),
[48]40.3 God told them, "Take Abel's body as well, seize other shrouds and dress
him in them also
[48]40.4 for he had remained lying naked since the day when wicked Cain killed
him. And he wished to bury him in the earth and he was unable (to do so),
because his body came back out of the earth. For a voice made itself heard from
heaven and said to him,
[48]40.5a "He will not be able to be buried in the earth before he who was
created first has returned to the earth from which he was created."
[48]40.5b Then he took it to a rock and it remained spread out there until the
death of Adam. Thus (the angels) took him and dressed him like his father.
[48]40.6 God commanded that both of them should be taken up to paradise, on the
eastern part, in the place from which God had taken some soil and created Adam.
And God commanded Michael to dig.
[48]40.7 And God sent seven angels to paradise: they gathered much incense from
paradise and they brought them to them. Then they took both bodies, put them
into the grave and covered them (with earth).
[48]41.1 Then God turned and called Adam. Adam's body answered him from the soil
and said, "Here I am, (Lord)."
[48]41.2 And the Lord told him, "Behold, as I told you, you are soil and you
have returned to the soil,
[48]41.3 but I will raise you up in the resurrection which I have promised you,
at the time of resurrection.
[48]42.1 Then, after that, God took the triangular seal and sealed the tomb of
Adam and he said, "Let no person touch it during these six days, until your rib
returns to you.
[48]42.2 Then God reascended to the upper heaven and each of the angels to his
office.

Eve's Prayer to Join Adam
[48]42.3 But Eve grew numb when she saw (so Mahe) all that. Eve wept and wished
to see where they had put Adam, for she did not know. When the Lord had
descended upon the earth, the sweet odor of all the trees of paradise did not
(...) because of his sweet odor all had grown numb. Until the wrapping and the
burial of Adam, nobody understood anything except Seth.
[48]42.4 Then Eve begged (and) wept so that (God) might lead her off, show her
the place where they had put Adam. And when she had completed her prayer, she
said,
[48]42.5 "Lord, do not alienate me from Adam's place,
[48]42.6 but command me, me also, (to be) with him,
[48]42.7 as we both were in paradise, inseparable from one another.
[48]42.8 Do not separate us in our death, but place me where you have placed
him." And after this prayer she gave up her soul.

Eve's Funeral and Epilogue
[51]43.1 And the angel Michael came and taught Seth how to dress Eve. Three
angels came and took Eve's body and placed it where they had placed Adam's body.
[51]43.2 And after that, the angel Michael told him, "Thus dress every dead
person who dies, until the death of all human beings."
[51]43.3 When he had taught Seth all that, he ascended to the uppermost heaven,
far from Seth, and he told him, "Do not mourn for the dead more than five days
and on the seventh day rejoice, for on that day God rested from all his (works)
which the Lord had made."
[51]43.4 To him is glory and honor and adoration, with the Father and the Holy
Spirit, now and for ever and for ever and ever. Amen.

http://www.bibleufo.com/index.htm





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Michael,
Are you a new member? Some groups put new members on moderation to avoid
spammers. I don't know about this group, I am fairly new here also.
Judy




________________________________
From: MichaelD <mikeblamedenial@...>
To: deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 10:27:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] If Santa Answered His Mail Honestly

 
Makes me wonder if I'm still on moderation here. Mike

--- In deathtoreligion@ yahoogroups. com, Judy <cobbie1919@ ...> wrote:
>
> Sorry if I offended anyone. The chat seems slow, sometimes I get cute or funny
emails and I like to share. Even tho it is the holiday season and I am an
atheist and do not believe in it all, I still like to be happy, smile, sometimes
laugh out loud at these jokes and share with others.
>
> From the Group Page:
> Description
>
> Don't worry about the name.. we're quite tolerant here. (Speak for
yourself.-Devas) "Reason shapes the future, but superstition infects the
present."
>
>
> The group description even has a cute cartoon. The cartoons are on topic as
Santa is a  religious representation tradition...  
>
> Sorry to offend, just delete my emails until the season is over. Who knows, I
may not even get anymore.
>
> Judy
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: "slwineboy@. .." <slwineboy@. ..>
> To: deathtoreligion@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Thu, December 10, 2009 12:44:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] If Santa Answered His Mail Honestly
>
>  
> I have been enjoying them
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Richard Godwin" <meta@...>
> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:15:49
> To: <deathtoreligion@ yahoogroups. com>
> Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] If Santa Answered His Mail Honestly
>
> Why do you continue to send all these silly posts here?
>
> Richard.
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Not really. I was on moderation, so I quit posting. Looks like I'm OK now. Mike

--- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, Judy <cobbie1919@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Michael,
> Are you a new member? Some groups put new members on moderation to avoid
spammers. I don't know about this group, I am fairly new here also.
> Judy
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: MichaelD <mikeblamedenial@...>
> To: deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 10:27:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] If Santa Answered His Mail Honestly
>
>  
> Makes me wonder if I'm still on moderation here. Mike
>
> --- In deathtoreligion@ yahoogroups. com, Judy <cobbie1919@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > Sorry if I offended anyone. The chat seems slow, sometimes I get cute or
funny emails and I like to share. Even tho it is the holiday season and I am an
atheist and do not believe in it all, I still like to be happy, smile, sometimes
laugh out loud at these jokes and share with others.
> >
> > From the Group Page:
> > Description
> >
> > Don't worry about the name.. we're quite tolerant here. (Speak for
yourself.-Devas) "Reason shapes the future, but superstition infects the
present."
> >
> >
> > The group description even has a cute cartoon. The cartoons are on topic as
Santa is a  religious representation tradition...  
> >
> > Sorry to offend, just delete my emails until the season is over. Who knows,
I may not even get anymore.
> >
> > Judy
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: "slwineboy@ .." <slwineboy@ ..>
> > To: deathtoreligion@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Thu, December 10, 2009 12:44:36 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] If Santa Answered His Mail Honestly
> >
> >  
> > I have been enjoying them
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "Richard Godwin" <meta@>
> > Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:15:49
> > To: <deathtoreligion@ yahoogroups. com>
> > Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] If Santa Answered His Mail Honestly
> >
> > Why do you continue to send all these silly posts here?
> >
> > Richard.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Skeptoid #65
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4065

Debating with a creationist is actually really easy, because they only have a
few standard arguments, and haven't come up with any new cogent ones for some
time. These standard arguments have been published time and time again, and a
practiced creationist can handily draw them like a six-gun at the drop of a hat.
All of their arguments are silly in their wrongness and easily debunked, and if
you're prepared in advance, it's easy to beat down any creationist with a quick
verbal body slam. You're not going to change their mind, since creationists do
not base their opinions upon rational study of the evidence; but you might help
clear things up for an innocent bystander who overhears.
So here are the standard arguments for creationism, and the standard rebuttals
from the scientific consensus, starting with my favorite:
Evolution is just a theory, not a fact. This is an easily digestible sound bite
intended to show that evolution is just an unproven hypothesis, like any other,
and thus should not be taught in schools as if it were fact. Actually, evolution
is both a theory and a fact. A fact is something we observe in the world, and a
theory is our best explanation for it. Stephen Jay Gould famously addressed this
argument by pointing out that the fact of gravity is that things fall, and our
theory of gravity began with Isaac Newton and was later replaced by Einstein's
improved theory. The current state of our theory to explain gravity does not
affect the fact that things fall. Similarly, Darwin's original theory of
evolution was highly incomplete and had plenty of errors. Today's theory is
still incomplete but it's a thousand times better than it was in Darwin's day.
But the state of our explanation does not affect the observed fact that species
evolve over time.
The next argument you're likely to encounter states that Evolution is
controversial; scientists disagree on its validity. Creationists have latched
onto the fact that evolutionary biologists still have competing theories to
explain numerous minor aspects of evolution. Throwing out evolution for this
reason would be like dismissing the use of tires on cars because there are
competing tread designs. Despite the claim of widespread controversy, no
significant number of scientists doubt either the fact of evolution or the
validity of the theory as a whole. Creationists often publish lists of
scientists whom they say reject evolution. These lists are probably true. In the
United States, the majority of the general public are creationists of one flavor
or another. But the scientific community has a very different opinion: Most
surveys of scientists find that 95 to 98 percent accept evolution just as they
do other aspects of the natural world.
Creationists also argue that Evolution is not falsifiable, therefore it's not
science. One of the fundamentals of any science is that it's falsifiable. If a
test can be derived that, if it were to fail, falsified a proposition, then that
proposition meets a basic test of being a science. Something that cannot be
tested and falsified, like the existence of gods, is therefore not a science.
Creationists accept this to the point that they use it as an argument against
evolution's status as a science.
In fact, evolution could be very easily falsified. Evolutionary biologist JBS
Haldane famously said that a fossilized rabbit from the Precambrian era would do
it. Another way to falsify evolution would be to test any of the innumerable
predictions it makes, and see if the observation doesn't match what was
predicted. Creationists are invited to go through all the predictions made in
the evolutionary literature, and if they can genuinely find that not a single
one is testable, then they're right.
The next argument to be prepared for is that Evolution is itself a religion.
This argument has become increasingly popular in recent years as creationists
have tried to bolster their own position by decorating it with
scientific-sounding words like intelligent design. And as they try to convince
us that their own position is science based, they correspondingly mock evolution
by calling it a religion of those who worship Darwin as a prophet and accept its
tenets on faith since there is no evidence supporting evolution. Clearly this is
an argument that could only be persuasive to people who know little or nothing
about the concept of evolution or Darwin's role in its development. This
argument is easily dismissed. A religion is the worship of a supernatural divine
superbeing, and there is nothing anywhere in the theory of evolution that makes
reference to such a being, and not a single living human considers himself a
member of any "evolution church."
Creationists also like to argue that Evolution cannot be observed. Part of what
you need to do to validate a theory is to test it and observe the results.
Although there are evolutionary phenomena that can be directly observed like dog
breeding and lab experiments with fruit flies, most of what evolution explains
has happened over millions of years and so, quite obviously, nobody was around
to observe most of it. This is true, but it misstates what observation consists
of. There's a lot of observation in science where we have to use evidence of an
event: certain chemical reactions, subatomic particle physics, theoretical
physics; all of these disciplines involve experimentation and observation where
the actual events can't be witnessed. The theory of evolution was originally
developed to explain the evidence that was observed from the fossil record. So
in this respect, every significant aspect of evolution has been exhaustively
observed and documented,
  many times over.
One of the most tiresome creationist arguments against evolution tries to claim
that There is an absence of transitional fossils. If the ancestor of the modern
horse Miohippus evolved from its predecessor Mesohippus, then surely there must
be examples of transitional fossils that would show characteristics of both, or
perhaps an intermediate stage. I use the horse example because the fossil record
of horses is exceptionally well represented with many finds. If evolution is
true, shouldn't there be examples of transitional stages between Miohippus and
Mesohippus? The creationists say that there are not. Well, there are, and in
abundance. You can tell people that there aren't, but you're either
intentionally lying or intentionally refusing to inform yourself on a subject
you're claiming to be authoritative on. Kathleen Hunt of the University of
Washington writes:
A typical Miohippus was distinctly larger than a typical Mesohippus, with a
slightly longer skull. The facial fossa was deeper and more expanded. In
addition, the ankle joint had changed subtly. Miohippus also began to show a
variable extra crest on its upper cheek teeth. In later horse species, this
crest became a characteristic feature of the teeth. This is an excellent example
of how new traits originate as variations in the ancestral population.
The layperson need look no deeper than Wikipedia to find a long list of
transitional fossils. But be aware that many species known only from the fossil
record may be known by only one skeleton, often incomplete. The older fossil
records are simply too sparse to expect any form of completeness, especially if
you're looking for complete transitions. It's not going to happen. However, the
theory of punctuated equilibrium predicts that in many cases there will be no
transitional fossils, so in a lot of these cases, creationists are pointing to
the absence of fossils that evolutionary theory predicts probably never existed.
Here's another creationist argument, and when I first heard it I said "What the
heck are they talking about??" It's that Evolution violates the second law of
thermodynamics. The second law of thermodynamics states that there is no reverse
entropy in any isolated system. The available energy in a closed system will
stay the same or decrease over time, and the overall entropy of such a system
can only increase or stay the same. This is an immutable physical law, and it's
true. Creationists argue that this means a complex system, like a living
organism, cannot form on its own, as that would be a decrease of entropy. Order
from disorder, they argue, is physically impossible without divine intervention.
This argument is easy to make if you oversimplify the law to the point of
ignoring its principal qualification: that it only applies to a closed, isolated
system. If you attempt to apply it to any system, such as a plant, animal, or
deck of cards, you've just
  proven that photosynthesis, growth, and unshuffling are impossible too.
Organisms are open systems (as was the proverbial primordial goo), since they
exchange material and energy with their surroundings, and so the second law of
thermodynamics is not relevant to them. Innumerable natural and artificial
processes produce order from disorder in open systems using external energy and
material.
In a related vein, creationists also argue that Evolution cannot create complex
structures with irreducible complexity. This argument was made famous by Michael
Behe, an evangelical biochemist, who coined the term irreducible complexity.
Take a complex structure like an eyeball, and remove any part of it to simulate
evolution in reverse, and it will no longer function. Thus, an eyeball cannot
have evolved through natural selection, as a non-functioning structure would not
be a genetic advantage. It seems like it makes sense at face value, but it's
based on a tremendously faulty concept. Evolution in reverse is not accurately
simulated by taking a cleaver and hacking an eyeball in half. The animal kingdom
is full of examples of simpler eye structures, all of which are functional, all
of which are irreducibly complex, and all of which are susceptible to further
refinement through evolution. For a dramatic visual example of how irreducible
complexity can
  and does evolve through gradual refinement, and yet remain irreducibly complex,
take a look at Lee Graham's applet the Irreducible Complexity Evolver at
http://www.stellaralchemy.com/ice/.
Another effort to fight science using logic states that It's too improbable for
complex life forms to develop by chance. This is the old "747 in a junkyard"
argument. How likely is it that a tornado would go through a junkyard, and by
chance, happen to assemble a perfect 747? The same argument was made centuries
ago by William Paley, except he referred to the exquisite design of a
pocketwatch, and pointed out that such a thing is so complex and delicate that
it had to have been designed from the top down by a creator. This argument is
simply reflective of ignorance of the extraordinary power of evolution's
bottom-up design mechanism. Once you have an understanding of multigenerational
mutation and natural selection, and also understand how structures with
irreducible complexity evolve, there's nothing unlikely or implausible about
evolution at all. In fact, genetic algorithms (the computer software version of
evolution), are starting to take over the
  world of invention with innovative new engineering advances that top-down
designers like human beings might have never come up with. Bottom-up design is
not only probable, it's inevitable and nearly always produces better designs
than any intelligent creator could have.
You should also be prepared to hear that Evolution cannot create new
information. Based on a misinterpretation of information theory, this argument
states that the new information required to create a new species cannot suddenly
spawn into existence spontaneously; new information can only come from an
outside source, namely, an intelligent creator. This particular argument doesn't
go very far, since any genetic mutation or duplication can only be described as
new information. Not all of that information is good. Most of it's useless, but
once in a blue moon you get a piece that's beneficial to the organism. New
genetic information is observed in evolutionary processes every day.
For a final blow from the logic department, be ready for the argument that
Evolution does not explain some aspects of life or culture. This is an argument
which is really just a logical fallacy: that since evolution does not explain
everything, it is therefore entirely false. Evolutionary biologists are the
first ones to stand up and say that there are still plenty of aspects of life
we're still learning about. That doesn't make the things we've already learned
wrong. It's also increasingly common for creationists to point to things that
have nothing to do with the origin of life and speciation, like the Big Bang and
the age of the earth, and argue that since the theory of evolution does not
explain those things as well, it is therefore false. This is an even greater
logical fallacy. Theories explain only those observed phenomena they are
designed to explain. They are not intended to have anything to do with stuff
they have nothing to do with.
Those are the standard arguments. One thing I can't easily prepare you for are
the non-standard arguments you might get from a creationist who doesn't know his
business very well. For example, when evangelical actor Kirk Cameron and
Christian author Ray Comfort were given a platform by ABC television in April
2007 to express their beliefs to the creators of the Blasphemy Challenge, they
didn't even know the standard arguments and just started throwing random stuff
out left and right in a way that's much harder to debate intelligently. Phil
Plait of Bad Astronomy had a similar experience when debating moon hoax believer
Joe Rogan, and he summed it up quite aptly by pointing out that it's easy to
know the science better than a believer does, but a believer can easily know the
pseudoscience way better than you. Stick with what you know, and don't allow an
unpracticed creationist who's all over the place to steer you off the track.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Judy wrote:
> Hi Clint, I have never heard that before - Blixem I mean. Is that so?
> Judy

Apparently. I went to Wiki to check Donder because I never heard that
either. I guess Blixem is the original Swedish pronunciation or
something like that and Blitzen is German. I don't remember exactly but
it's something like that. Both mean the same thing so I guess it doesn't
matter how you say it.