Please read and go to site and VOTE! Currently 65 to 35 FOR allowing
proselytizing in workplace.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Careers/story?id=691389&page=1

Charlene
Newport Beach, CA

atheistactivist@...

Why must you spam us?

--- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, "TOR" <tor_h_tor@h...> wrote:
> Groove on over to the Yahoo Group and listen
> to this amazingly amusing "SuperStar" parody in its full jocular
> splendiferousness.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/spammer/

In times such as these, where the Religious Right is day by day
moving this country towards a fundamentalist theocracy, a vibrant
movement of resistance is needed.
The religious fanatics all have their missionaries to spread their
messages of hate. The theocrats have state power and are slowly
moving towards plunging the world into a Dark Age-style religious
dictatorship, they are using the power of the state to destroy
rights of all who are not like them; women, homosexuals, immigrants,
and all non-Christians, or even Christians that don't support the
same neo-fascist agenda that the Christian Right does.
We must become foot soldiers of the 'Cultural War.' Why? The
government is trying to push the religious agenda as far as
possible. That is why it is most necesarry at this point to begin
propagating atheism to counteract the fascistic Christian law
dreamed of by the Republicans.
I propose a nationally organized, propagandist organization to
challenge the Christian Right as they move to deconstruct the law
and literally replace it with the Bible.
We must create and distribute literature showing the truth about
religion, mainly Christianity. Leaflets and pamphlets can be easily
created and distributed. There is already much dispersed throughout
the interntet, but there is no organization that is out there,
actively promoting scientific understanding. We must gather people
and information to spread. By doing this, especially on campuses, we
can begin to disintergrate the social base of the Christian Fascists.
We must join forces with any and all groups that oppose the
imposition of religion upon our private lives, and the use of
religion to justify government policy. The enemy fo my enemy is my
friend.
We need people most of all. Any atheist can be of use to the
movement, and consequently, of use to the human race. People to
write movie and book critiques, study the contradictions of each
religion, principally Christianity, and show the fallacy of them.
People with knowledge of science to debunk the myth of Creationism.
People to distribute literature at schools and in all of society.
People that follow the religous influence in the government and it's
affects on our lives, and where the Christian Fascists (note: I
don't call all Christians fascists, just those that wish to create a
theocracy) want to take this country. Any and all atheists concerned
about the future should join up with the movement and spread the
truth.
We must defend even religious groups that fall under attack by
others. When in any case, 'faith' is used to oppress another person,
we must fight against it.
We need to formulate a list of demands. These will not be able to be
voted into being, as both parties are 'faith-based.' What must be
done is a social movement that will crumble the feet of the giant.
There are already a great number of excellent atheist groups
throughout the country. I support all of these in the fight against
theocracy. But what is lacking is outreach. This is what must be
done. The atheist meetup groups (atheists.meetep.com) are a great
place to start chapters throughout the country to begin the counter
attack of the Cultural War.
I am currently compiling all the atheist literature that I can email
anyone that requests it.
Anyone who would like to be part of an organized propaganda network
can email me at theocracynow@... or visit
theocracynow.blogspot.com
With Love, T.N.

--- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, "pukaviracocha"
<theocracynow@g...> wrote:
> study the contradictions of each religion, principally Christianity,
> and show the fallacy of them.

That's already been done.  For example http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

> People with knowledge of science to debunk the myth of Creationism.

See http://www.talkorigins.org/

Hello, I just joined, I'm not even sure if this is the place to be
posting questions like this, but.......
I need some advice on dealing with religious relatives, who don't want
to listen when I say I don't believe in god, and I'm not interested in
their religion. It isn't a matter of just cutting off contact with
them, because otherwise they are good people, and I don't have much
family, so I try to keep in touch with them.
It never was an issue before, because I have lived across the country
from my father and various other religious family members since I was
14, and I've always avoided discussing religion and politics over the
phone with them. But now I am moving back to the area where they live,
to go to school (no option in going to another school, this is the
one), and I am going to see much more of them. So what should I do?
Aviod them, or keep everyone constantly entertained during visits so
there is no time for the topic to even come up? Pretending to agree
with what they think is not an option, and discussing my beliefs just
leads to back and forth neverending conversations. I'm trying to have
a plan before I do move back.

You'll probably just need to somehow try to get them to agree not to
discuss it with you.  I really don't see any other way.

--- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, pink_plastic_deer
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Hello, I just joined, I'm not even sure if this is the place to be
> posting questions like this, but.......
> I need some advice on dealing with religious relatives, who don't want
> to listen when I say I don't believe in god, and I'm not interested in
> their religion. It isn't a matter of just cutting off contact with
> them, because otherwise they are good people, and I don't have much
> family, so I try to keep in touch with them.
> It never was an issue before, because I have lived across the country
> from my father and various other religious family members since I was
> 14, and I've always avoided discussing religion and politics over the
> phone with them. But now I am moving back to the area where they live,
> to go to school (no option in going to another school, this is the
> one), and I am going to see much more of them. So what should I do?
> Aviod them, or keep everyone constantly entertained during visits so
> there is no time for the topic to even come up? Pretending to agree
> with what they think is not an option, and discussing my beliefs just
> leads to back and forth neverending conversations. I'm trying to have
> a plan before I do move back.

Change the subject. Tell them you know all about what they're telling
you. Don't pretend to agree, but don't vocally disagree either. Let
them finish, and say something like, "Religious belief is a personal
private thing, and I'm going to keep it that way." Or maybe something
like, "Thank you for telling me that, I'll take it under
consideration."

They'll eventually get tired of you blowing them off and they'll stop
talking about it so much.



--- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, pink_plastic_deer
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Hello, I just joined, I'm not even sure if this is the place to be
> posting questions like this, but.......
> I need some advice on dealing with religious relatives, who don't
want
> to listen when I say I don't believe in god, and I'm not interested
in
> their religion. It isn't a matter of just cutting off contact with
> them, because otherwise they are good people, and I don't have much
> family, so I try to keep in touch with them.
> It never was an issue before, because I have lived across the
country
> from my father and various other religious family members since I
was
> 14, and I've always avoided discussing religion and politics over
the
> phone with them. But now I am moving back to the area where they
live,
> to go to school (no option in going to another school, this is the
> one), and I am going to see much more of them. So what should I do?
> Aviod them, or keep everyone constantly entertained during visits
so
> there is no time for the topic to even come up? Pretending to agree
> with what they think is not an option, and discussing my beliefs
just
> leads to back and forth neverending conversations. I'm trying to
have
> a plan before I do move back.

Wrong!

There is no part of christianity that is legislated in the USA laws.
That's a right-wing slant designed to sneak their religion in through
the back door, and it won't fly here.
The USA isn't some eutopia, our country is screwed up like many others,
we're just the richest. Rich doesn't mean right.


--- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, "darsoclass" <darsoclass@y...>
wrote:
>We do need to be realistic about
> the threat! The so-called "Christian Ethic" is the foundation of our
> whole legal system.  If we pretend different, we look like ammoral
> fools to the enemy.

Right, Cut - the Constitution specifically leaves out any mention of
god/gods on purpose - the "founding fathers" were considered atheists
by the fundamentalists of the day for it, too, btw.

BTW - what enemy would that be?

T.
http://thebeekeepersapprentice.com
On Jul 12, 2005, at 11:45 AM, Cut You Up In Pieces wrote:

>
>  Wrong!
>
>  There is no part of christianity that is legislated in the USA laws.
>  That's a right-wing slant designed to sneak their religion in through
>  the back door, and it won't fly here.
>  The USA isn't some eutopia, our country is screwed up like many
> others,
>  we're just the richest. Rich doesn't mean right.
>
>
>  --- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, "darsoclass" <darsoclass@y...>
>  wrote:
>  >We do need to be realistic about
>  > the threat! The so-called "Christian Ethic" is the foundation of our
>  > whole legal system.  If we pretend different, we look like ammoral
>  > fools to the enemy. 
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Atheism
> Religion
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>  ▪   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The hard-core, conservative religious freaks are obsessed with
reversing Roe vs. Wade, replacing teaching evolution in schools
ENTIRELY with teaching "creationism," requiring christian prayer in
ALL schools, installing theior members on all school boards top
ensure their christian ways always get pushed.  Hard-care xian
religious fanatics ARE INDEED VERY MUCH AT WORK trying to change
this country that EVERYONE must obey the stupid xian ways.  We MUST
FIGHT AND RESIST the xians.  The People for the American Way is
leading the fight.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, "Cut You Up In Pieces"
<slambango@y...> wrote:
>
> Wrong!
>
> There is no part of christianity that is legislated in the USA
laws.
> That's a right-wing slant designed to sneak their religion in
through
> the back door, and it won't fly here.
> The USA isn't some eutopia, our country is screwed up like many
others,
> we're just the richest. Rich doesn't mean right.
>
>
> --- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, "darsoclass"
<darsoclass@y...>
> wrote:
> >We do need to be realistic about
> > the threat! The so-called "Christian Ethic" is the foundation of
our
> > whole legal system.  If we pretend different, we look like
ammoral
> > fools to the enemy.

I do fundraising for democratic campaigns. One of which (although bipartisan,
even though most republicans hate their guts) is the P.F.T.A.W. I know how bad
this is; I am doing my part...
R.J.

tarrat47 <tarrat47@...> wrote:
The hard-core, conservative religious freaks are obsessed with
reversing Roe vs. Wade, replacing teaching evolution in schools
ENTIRELY with teaching "creationism," requiring christian prayer in
ALL schools, installing theior members on all school boards top
ensure their christian ways always get pushed.  Hard-care xian
religious fanatics ARE INDEED VERY MUCH AT WORK trying to change
this country that EVERYONE must obey the stupid xian ways.  We MUST
FIGHT AND RESIST the xians.  The People for the American Way is
leading the fight.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, "Cut You Up In Pieces"
<slambango@y...> wrote:
>
> Wrong!
>
> There is no part of christianity that is legislated in the USA
laws.
> That's a right-wing slant designed to sneak their religion in
through
> the back door, and it won't fly here.
> The USA isn't some eutopia, our country is screwed up like many
others,
> we're just the richest. Rich doesn't mean right.
>
>
> --- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, "darsoclass"
<darsoclass@y...>
> wrote:
> >We do need to be realistic about
> > the threat! The so-called "Christian Ethic" is the foundation of
our
> > whole legal system.  If we pretend different, we look like
ammoral
> > fools to the enemy.




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

EVERYONE IS CRAZY BUT YOU AND ME AND SOMETIMES I'M NOT SURE OF THEE
By New 10.
X
   Folie a deux (Insanity). The French distinguished mental
alienation from insanity (folie), considering the former in a
generic sense, while they used folie to denote a psychiatric
condition acquired by a person who had previously been in good
mental health.
	 Folie a deux (double insanity). Folie a deux has been known
by number names: communicated insanity, induced insanity, double
insanity. Suggestibility plays a part, among other factors, in the
genesis of folie a deux…when two persons closely associated with
one another suffer a psychosis simultaneously, and when one member
of the pair appears to have influenced the other. The condition is
not confined to two persons, and can involve three or even more.
Certainly the witch hunts of the 17th Century is a prime example, as
were the inquisition and the crusades. The communist hunts, heavens
gate, the popularity of the KKK in the 1930s, and Hitler's Germany
are all good examples of communicated insanity. We all (at least
those who are as old as I am) witnessed the rise of the Nazi party
that started as a small band of misfits in the 1920s. This was
during the time when Germany's economy was in shambles – when it
took a million Marks to buy a loaf of bread. I am sure Hitler
exploited this time to make promises to the German people.
	 Since the 1950s, Luce, the publisher of Time magazine, told
his editor to "PUFF" a minor preacher by the name of Billy Graham.
This was the beginning of a new wave of insanity culminating in our
present day folie a deux called "Christian Fundamentalism",
(Evangelical) one of the fastest growing religions in the world. In
addition, as you can see, our president, George Bush, is infecting
America with a new rash of insanity. Only historians in the future
will be able to look back at this period in American history to
assess the damage. They may find that this religion has caused a new
DARK AGE. There never will be a Democratic Party again in America as
long as religious fanatics have control of the Republican Party and
the U.S. government. Americans are slowly slipping into the
psychosis of fascist Christian fundamentalism, America will NEVER
recover from this mind set.
www.atheistfellowship.com

Hey ya'll.  I can't access my old email address, and therefore am
unable to mod the group anymore.  There are some messages pending, so
if another mod would be kind enough to check them out and approve or
not, that would be stupendous.  Also, it might be wise to change the
group setting or else check the group more often, otherwise some
messages may not get through.  If ya don't want the responsibility, I'd
be happy to continue supervising the kids, but I no longer have the
powers :(

devas

IS THIS TOO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND?

By New10.



Of all the Gods once believed in by our ancestors, none exists today. There are
no more temples dedicated to the god Zeus, no more temples dedicated to the god
Mithra no more temples built to honor Asclepius, the god of health and healing
no more temples to honor Apollo the sun god or the thousands of other gods once
believed by the masses. All have been killed off by science, old age or
competition.

             It seems, however, there are two gods that will not stay dead. They
are Jesus and Jehovah--new temples are being built every day dedicated to these
two gods. If all the old gods are known to be mythical, what are the chances
that Jesus and Jehovah are not?

www.atheistfellowship.com

  drnjoseph@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have a friend who is an atheist married to a christian, not ONLY is he
a believer but he believes in everything supernstural.How do they get
along? great! They don't discuss religion or the supernatural, simple

“Christianity indeed has equaled Judaism in the atrocities, and exceeded it in
the extent of its desolation. Eleven millions of men, women, and children have
been killed in battle, butchered in their sleep, burned to death at public
festivals of sacrifice, poisoned, tortured, assassinated, and pillaged in the
spirit of the Religion of Peace, and for the glory of the most merciful God.”
-- Percy Bysshe Shelley, A Refutation of Deism, 1814


The following sentence is true - The preceding sentence is false

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, n1n31nchn3rd
<n1n31nchn3rd@p...> wrote:
> (How can we NOT break the law and offend those nasty liberals with
our brainwashing? Take it off
> school property of course!)
>
> Bible Breaks at Public Schools Face Challenges in Rural Virginia
>
> By Carol Morello
> Washington Post Staff Writer
> Sunday, January 23, 2005; Page A01
>
> STAUNTON, Va. -- Lunch is over and some classes already are at
recess


THIS IS HOW YOU TURN CHILDREN INTO RELIGIOUS ADDICTS
NEW10

I don't think we can distroy religion. But I think it can be weakened.
If it were possible that atheist groups with unlimited resources in
regards to money,we could have hour long twice daily atheist programs
on prime time TV. If Freethought publications were given wider
distrabution and if we had atheist columns in major newspapers. "IF"
magizines and newspapers were not cowed by the threat of boycot from
fanatical christian groups. If had atheist lobbyists in
Whashington, "if".

Lotta IF's!

Many freethinkers of the late 19th Century thought that religion would
die down, but it in fact increased.

I am reading Susan Jacoby's book "Freethinkers" now and she attributes
this increase in religious belief to the advent of mass media, radio
and such, that made it possible for those of faith to reach out to a
bigger audience and thus unite, if not increase, their ranks.

This has all culminated in the recent puch by religious groups in the
70's infiltrating schools boards and political offices at the hand of
Pat Robertson and the Christian Coalition (a curse on them).

I do not think religion is going anywhere NEAR the wayside. It may
eventually, but not for a very long time. The questions we should ask
is how do we promote atheism and freethought...and how do we EDUCATE
the otherwise sheepish members of our society?

Mr. P.

--- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, "Newton Joseph"
<drnjoseph@s...> wrote:
> I don't think we can distroy religion. But I think it can be
weakened.
> If it were possible that atheist groups with unlimited resources in
> regards to money,we could have hour long twice daily atheist programs
> on prime time TV. If Freethought publications were given wider
> distrabution and if we had atheist columns in major newspapers. "IF"
> magizines and newspapers were not cowed by the threat of boycot from
> fanatical christian groups. If had atheist lobbyists in
> Whashington, "if".

http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4133&n=2

KANSAS CITY, KS—As the debate over the teaching of evolution in public
schools continues, a new controversy over the science curriculum arose
Monday in this embattled Midwestern state. Scientists from the
Evangelical Center For Faith-Based Reasoning are now asserting that the
long-held "theory of gravity" is flawed, and they have responded to it
with a new theory of Intelligent Falling.
Rev. Gabriel Burdett (left) explains Intelligent Falling.
Above: Rev. Gabriel Burdett (left) explains Intelligent Falling.

"Things fall not because they are acted upon by some gravitational
force, but because a higher intelligence, 'God' if you will, is pushing
them down," said Gabriel Burdett, who holds degrees in education,
applied Scripture, and physics from Oral Roberts University.

Burdett added: "Gravity—which is taught to our children as a law—is
founded on great gaps in understanding. The laws predict the mutual
force between all bodies of mass, but they cannot explain that force.
Isaac Newton himself said, 'I suspect that my theories may all depend
upon a force for which philosophers have searched all of nature in
vain.' Of course, he is alluding to a higher power."

Founded in 1987, the ECFR is the world's leading institution of
evangelical physics, a branch of physics based on literal interpretation
of the Bible.

According to the ECFR paper published simultaneously this week in the
International Journal Of Science and the adolescent magazine God's Word
For Teens!, there are many phenomena that cannot be explained by secular
gravity alone, including such mysteries as how angels fly, how Jesus
ascended into Heaven, and how Satan fell when cast out of Paradise.

The ECFR, in conjunction with the Christian Coalition and other
Christian conservative action groups, is calling for public-school
curriculums to give equal time to the Intelligent Falling theory. They
insist they are not asking that the theory of gravity be banned from
schools, but only that students be offered both sides of the issue "so
they can make an informed decision."

"We just want the best possible education for Kansas' kids," Burdett said.

Proponents of Intelligent Falling assert that the different theories
used by secular physicists to explain gravity are not internally
consistent. Even critics of Intelligent Falling admit that Einstein's
ideas about gravity are mathematically irreconcilable with quantum
mechanics. This fact, Intelligent Falling proponents say, proves that
gravity is a theory in crisis.

"Let's take a look at the evidence," said ECFR senior fellow Gregory
Lunsden."In Matthew 15:14, Jesus says, 'And if the blind lead the blind,
both shall fall into the ditch.' He says nothing about some gravity
making them fall—just that they will fall. Then, in Job 5:7, we read,
'But mankind is born to trouble, as surely as sparks fly upwards.' If
gravity is pulling everything down, why do the sparks fly upwards with
great surety? This clearly indicates that a conscious intelligence
governs all falling."

Critics of Intelligent Falling point out that gravity is a provable law
based on empirical observations of natural phenomena. Evangelical
physicists, however, insist that there is no conflict between Newton's
mathematics and Holy Scripture.

"Closed-minded gravitists cannot find a way to make Einstein's general
relativity match up with the subatomic quantum world," said Dr. Ellen
Carson, a leading Intelligent Falling expert known for her work with the
Kansan Youth Ministry. "They've been trying to do it for the better part
of a century now, and despite all their empirical observation and
carefully compiled data, they still don't know how."

"Traditional scientists admit that they cannot explain how gravitation
is supposed to work," Carson said. "What the gravity-agenda scientists
need to realize is that 'gravity waves' and 'gravitons' are just secular
words for 'God can do whatever He wants.'"

Some evangelical physicists propose that Intelligent Falling provides an
elegant solution to the central problem of modern physics.

"Anti-falling physicists have been theorizing for decades about the
'electromagnetic force,' the 'weak nuclear force,' the 'strong nuclear
force,' and so-called 'force of gravity,'" Burdett said. "And they tilt
their findings toward trying to unite them into one force. But readers
of the Bible have already known for millennia what this one, unified
force is: His name is Jesus."

Mr. Pessimistic wrote:
<"The questions we should ask is how do we promote atheism and
freethought...and how do we EDUCATE the otherwise sheepish members of
our society?">

Instead of promoting 'atheism' or 'freethought', perhaps we ought to
use the tactics that the religious use and seem to understand better.
That is to constantly point out the flaws in their thinking or
reasoning by asking them to explain it in terms that everyone can
understand, even those without a religious background.

We don't need to present them with other possibilities. We want to get
them to question for themselves what they accept as truth. We can do
this by asking them to continue to explain until they realize they
can't because they don't understand. When they come down to its just
faith" or some such, ask them to explain what faith is and how it
works, or how is it different than simply refusing to question, or
even to explain why refusing to question is preferable to seeking
knowledge. They will have to stop you from questioning, but if you
stop when they know you are still questioning, they will begin to
question themselves. Never try to get them to change their beliefs,
but only to know that you are curious.

The Socratic method of teaching is extremely effective no matter what
the subject. Get the student to answer questions without giving them
any new information. Instead of giving them  an answer which they may
immediatly object to, simply leave them questioning their own
statements or declarations (beliefs). People really don't like
unanswered questions and they will try to find answers. When they
realize they can't get the answers they start looking elsewhere.
Giving them the proper questions is the key.

We should avoid using the standard language of belief or faith, let
them discover for themselves what these things are and how they
compare when dealing with the world in which they live.

Religions are cultural. That is, every religion is unique to its
locale. Simply asking a religious person to explain why people of one
area believe one way and they believe another is enough to begin them
questioning themselves IF you don't get them started defending their
own beliefs. People must cling to their knowledge of the world (world
view)  otherwise everything they know might be wrong and that would
cause extreme anxiety.

They can be inspired to question themselves, a bit at a time, but they
can not be 'forced' to look at their entire belief structure.

Just my morning ramblings . . . . .

--- deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
>
>
> There are 2 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
>       1. Re: "IF"
>            From: "Mr. Pessimistic"
> <badleathermonkey@...>
>       2. Evangelical Scientists Refute Gravity With
> New 'Intelligent Falling' Theory
>            From: n1n31nchn3rd
> <n1n31nchn3rd@...>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
>    Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 20:03:08 -0000
>    From: "Mr. Pessimistic"
> <badleathermonkey@...>
> Subject: Re: "IF"
>
> Lotta IF's!
>
> Many freethinkers of the late 19th Century thought
> that religion would
> die down, but it in fact increased.
>
> I am reading Susan Jacoby's book "Freethinkers" now
> and she attributes
> this increase in religious belief to the advent of
> mass media, radio
> and such, that made it possible for those of faith
> to reach out to a
> bigger audience and thus unite, if not increase,
> their ranks.
>
> This has all culminated in the recent puch by
> religious groups in the
> 70's infiltrating schools boards and political
> offices at the hand of
> Pat Robertson and the Christian Coalition (a curse
> on them).
>
> I do not think religion is going anywhere NEAR the
> wayside. It may
> eventually, but not for a very long time. The
> questions we should ask
> is how do we promote atheism and freethought...and
> how do we EDUCATE
> the otherwise sheepish members of our society?
>
> Mr. P.
>
> --- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, "Newton
> Joseph"
> <drnjoseph@s...> wrote:
> > I don't think we can distroy religion. But I think
> it can be
> weakened.
> > If it were possible that atheist groups with
> unlimited resources in
> > regards to money,we could have hour long twice
> daily atheist programs
> > on prime time TV. If Freethought publications were
> given wider
> > distrabution and if we had atheist columns in
> major newspapers. "IF"
> > magizines and newspapers were not cowed by the
> threat of boycot from
> > fanatical christian groups. If had atheist
> lobbyists in
> > Whashington, "if".
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
>    Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 21:18:56 -0400
>    From: n1n31nchn3rd <n1n31nchn3rd@...>
> Subject: Evangelical Scientists Refute Gravity With
> New 'Intelligent Falling' Theory
>
>
http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4133&n=2
>
> KANSAS CITY, KS—As the debate over the teaching of
> evolution in public
> schools continues, a new controversy over the
> science curriculum arose
> Monday in this embattled Midwestern state.
> Scientists from the
> Evangelical Center For Faith-Based Reasoning are now
> asserting that the
> long-held "theory of gravity" is flawed, and they
> have responded to it
> with a new theory of Intelligent Falling.
> Rev. Gabriel Burdett (left) explains Intelligent
> Falling.
> Above: Rev. Gabriel Burdett (left) explains
> Intelligent Falling.
>
> "Things fall not because they are acted upon by some
> gravitational
> force, but because a higher intelligence, 'God' if
> you will, is pushing
> them down," said Gabriel Burdett, who holds degrees
> in education,
> applied Scripture, and physics from Oral Roberts
> University.<<

"There is no fool like an educated fool,
once he gets off the thing he was educated in."

-Kenneth Copeland

A user of science myself, I find nothing wrong with
Burdett's statement. For instance, someone very
sensible once wrote that we COULD all believe that the
Universe revolved around the Earth IF WE CHOSE- all it
would do is just make astronomical computations a bit
more complicated. He wasn't advocating that- he wasn't
some religious nut- he just made a point.

Where I get very annoyed is where people concoct these
sorts of theories, then KILL AND DIE FOR THEM. For
WHAT? It is just a POINT OF VIEW!

What makes it WORSE is when THERE IS NO PRACTICAL
APPLICATION for the theory! What do you NEED it for,
then? See, if, along with the theory, Burdett now
reaches into his @$$, and yanks out A WORKING
ANTI-GRAVITY ENGINE, aha! NOW YOU ARE TALKING!
THAT would SURELY CHANGE LIFE ON EARTH AS WE KNOW IT!

This is the Problem with Pentecostalism (my chosen
religion): We got all these idiots who have visions
(we can PROVE that they DO have some measure of
usually uncontrollable ESP), and they meet "God." And
all they TALK about is HOW TO START A NEW
DENOMINATION! Why not ASK about, say, THE CURE FOR
CANCER (I already got that one), or PERPETUAL MOTION
(i.e. "FREE ENERGY," several someones else got that),
or A NEW GOSPEL ACCOUNT of THE LIFE OF CHRIST that
would END Christian disunity? (Working on it!) Silence
and eradicate the irrational sick nuts for ever?

But no- all we get out of them is something totally
mundane and short-sighted- an unnecessary Healing or
Prphetic "Gift" that would KILL ALL SPIRITUAL
DEVELOPMENT in the recipient, and those influenced by
him. (Example: Kenneth E. Hagin).


> Burdett added: "Gravity—which is taught to our
> children as a law—is
> founded on great gaps in understanding. The laws
> predict the mutual
> force between all bodies of mass, but they cannot
> explain that force.
> Isaac Newton himself said, 'I suspect that my
> theories may all depend
> upon a force for which philosophers have searched
> all of nature in
> vain.' Of course, he is alluding to a higher
power."<<

When I discovered SCIENTOLOGY around 1994, my reaction
was: WHY WAS I NOT *TOLD* THIS???

Three of L. Ron Hubbard's key disclosures was that the
Universe could be considered to be "Motion of Energy
in Space through Time;" "ALL Thought is concerned
wholly with motion;" "The Goal of all Existence is
Survival, and only Survival."

I realized then that what we in Bible Religion call
"The Commandments of God" are THE PRESCRIBED VECTORS
to PROMOTE LIFE. This had special significance to me,
because in the Faith Movement we are taught that "The
Word of God" "IS" Life.
So I realized that "LIFE" depends on SUPERCEDING
Newton's THREE LAWS OF MOTION.

Inanimate objects and CORPSES obey Newton's Three Laws
PERFECTLY, but LIVING THINGS DO NOT. Of course, if you
add up all the motion going on in any organism, and
correlate it with the calorific intake, you should
probably find that no magic energy comes from or
disappears to somewhere, BUT IN CHRISTIANITY
ESPECIALLY, we are specifically commanded to MOVE
DISPROPORTIONATELY to forces acting on us.

NEWTON: Objects continue in a state of rest, or
uniform motion in a straight line, unless acted upon
by  unbalanced forces.

JESUS: All things that you would others do for you, do
ye also to them, for this IS The Law and The prophets.

NEWTON: The rate of change of momentum is proportional
to the force applied.

JESUS: Bless them that curse you, do good to those who
hate you.

NEWTON: Action and reaction are equal and opposite.

JESUS: If anyone smite thee on thy right chhek, turn
to him the other also.

=====================================

We find that if we figure out how Human behavior is
flawed by our occasionally acting like an inanimate
object, a state New Testament thought calls "Death,"
we can derive a philosophy of life very similar to
what Jesus commanded, and the best teachings of the
Old Testament. It is very intersting to note that
JESUS' DISCIPLES and the so-called Apostle Paul
SHARPLY DEVIATED from those teachings, and actually
tried to HIDE Jesus' teachings from The Church- which
is how all the trouble with Christianity REALLY
started.

I am very intersted in the fact that NO CHRISTIAN has
ever reported what I have seen in L. Ron Hubbard's
doctrine- which is derived from the entirety of
Matthew 18 in The Bible.

It gets even more interesting when you try out even
those who consider themselves "deeply spiritual" with
the teachings of Dr. Carlos Castaneda, the
anthropologist who was accidentally trained as a
Native American Nagual seer, able to *see* visions at
will and teleport himself physically into Adjacent
Universes.
Carlos Castaneda proved more or less athenticity of
the entirety of Jesus of Nazareth's "crazy doctrine,"
but Christianity at large DOESN'T WANT TO KNOW THAT.

The most important thing about L. Ron Hubbard and
Carlos Castaneda is that THEY PROVE that you DON'T
NEED TO sell your soul to YAHWEH GOD, JESUS, SATAN or
any other entity, but if you just DISCIPLINE YOURSELF,
you can attain ANY spiritual level or power that you
want.
ONLY Carlos Castaneda has ever revealed publicly
EXACTLY what happens to people after they die, and
what the alternate options are. (There have been
people who knew this stuff all along, but they weren't
talking. Some learned to keep their mouths shut the
hard way!)

>
> Founded in 1987, the ECFR is the world's leading
> institution of
> evangelical physics, a branch of physics based on
> literal interpretation
> of the Bible.<<

I have never heard of it, but I will predict THIS
based on this one example you have shown us: THEY WILL
GET NOWHERE.

This thing has been tried before- CREATION RESEARCH
INSTITUTE- debunkers of the Evolutionary Theory.
They have some good points, but are stuck in a
dead-end. Jesus himself said, to the effect that it is
ridiculous to start to build a tower, then run out of
money before it is finished, creating a monument to
your own stupidity.

Christians have long substituted knowing what is right
themselves with telling other people they are wrong.
If an "Unbeliever" does not know that God created the
World, what is the business of a Christian to crucify
him for that? He himself DOES NOT KNOW that God
created the World- he merely BELIEVES IT. If he were
SERIOUS, he would then FIND OUT HOW God created the
World. This has NEVER happned in Christianity, yet.
(Excluding myself: for I DO know, now, thanks to
Hubbard and Castaneda. However, none of their
followers seem able to follow me when I explain it to
them, nor do they seem to have much of a handle on it
themselves. The two founders of Scientology and
Tensegrity can be demonstrated not to have realized
what they really had, but put it to the most
ridiculous use. Like inventing the diesel engine, and
using it for a door stop.)

>
> According to the ECFR paper published simultaneously
> this week in the
> International Journal Of Science and the adolescent
> magazine God's Word
> For Teens!, there are many phenomena that cannot be
> explained by secular
> gravity alone, including such mysteries as how
> angels fly, how Jesus
> ascended into Heaven, and how Satan fell when cast
> out of Paradise.<<

The Bible originally said that Satan originated on
Earth. This is consistent with certain phenomena that
prove a basis to the "Fall of Man" story. No one I
ever heard of has ever come up with SATAN'S REAL
MOTIVE.
WHY would an "ANGELIC BEING," possessed of superHuman
wisdom OPPOSE GOD HIS CREATOR? What is IN it for him?
WHY couldn't he FORSEE what would happen to him?

But if you DISCOUNT the fragmentary hints of the
DISCREDITED JEWISH "PROPHETS" (Isaiah and Ezekiel) and
go back to MOSES ORIGINAL EXPLANATION you find that as
an EARTH-CREATED ANIMAL, The "Serpent" has a VESTED
INTEREST in STEALING MAN'S DIVINE-CLASS ENERGY that
would enable him to Operate and Exist in the seven
Higher Universes called "Heaven."
Everything falls into place, then.

It can be proven that this "Fall of Man" Op is STILL
GOING ON. EVERYONE experiences this. "Sin" largely
consists of UNTHINKING ACTIONS that will permit the
"Devil" species to steal our constantly regenerating
life force, until only about 1% of it is left.
This is why Human life is so fragile.
This is why our offspring are apparently born
helpless.
It is NOT natural.

>
> The ECFR, in conjunction with the Christian
> Coalition and other
> Christian conservative action groups, is calling for
> public-school
> curriculums to give equal time to the Intelligent
> Falling theory. They
> insist they are not asking that the theory of
> gravity be banned from
> schools, but only that students be offered both
> sides of the issue "so
> they can make an informed decision."
>
> "We just want the best possible education for
> Kansas' kids," Burdett said.
>
> Proponents of Intelligent Falling assert that the
> different theories
> used by secular physicists to explain gravity are
> not internally
> consistent. Even critics of Intelligent Falling
> admit that Einstein's
> ideas about gravity are mathematically
> irreconcilable with quantum
> mechanics. This fact, Intelligent Falling proponents
> say, proves that
> gravity is a theory in crisis.
>
> "Let's take a look at the evidence," said ECFR
> senior fellow Gregory
> Lunsden."In Matthew 15:14, Jesus says, 'And if the
> blind lead the blind,
> both shall fall into the ditch.' He says nothing
> about some gravity
> making them fall—just that they will fall. Then, in
> Job 5:7, we read,
> 'But mankind is born to trouble, as surely as sparks
> fly upwards.' If
> gravity is pulling everything down, why do the
> sparks fly upwards with
> great surety? This clearly indicates that a
> conscious intelligence
> governs all falling."
>
> Critics of Intelligent Falling point out that
> gravity is a provable law
> based on empirical observations of natural
> phenomena. Evangelical
> physicists, however, insist that there is no
> conflict
=== message truncated ===


__________________________________________________
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You do realise that the Onion (which published the Intelligent falling
article) is satire?

--- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, Olatunde Aroloye
<olatundearoloye@y...> wrote:
>
>
> --- deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > --------------------~-->
> > Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make
> > Yahoo! your home page
> >
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/DzVolB/TM
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
> >
> >
> > There are 2 messages in this issue.
> >
> > Topics in this digest:
> >
> >       1. Re: "IF"
> >            From: "Mr. Pessimistic"
> > <badleathermonkey@y...>
> >       2. Evangelical Scientists Refute Gravity With
> > New 'Intelligent Falling' Theory
> >            From: n1n31nchn3rd
> > <n1n31nchn3rd@p...>
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 1
> >    Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 20:03:08 -0000
> >    From: "Mr. Pessimistic"
> > <badleathermonkey@y...>
> > Subject: Re: "IF"
> >
> > Lotta IF's!
> >
> > Many freethinkers of the late 19th Century thought
> > that religion would
> > die down, but it in fact increased.
> >
> > I am reading Susan Jacoby's book "Freethinkers" now
> > and she attributes
> > this increase in religious belief to the advent of
> > mass media, radio
> > and such, that made it possible for those of faith
> > to reach out to a
> > bigger audience and thus unite, if not increase,
> > their ranks.
> >
> > This has all culminated in the recent puch by
> > religious groups in the
> > 70's infiltrating schools boards and political
> > offices at the hand of
> > Pat Robertson and the Christian Coalition (a curse
> > on them).
> >
> > I do not think religion is going anywhere NEAR the
> > wayside. It may
> > eventually, but not for a very long time. The
> > questions we should ask
> > is how do we promote atheism and freethought...and
> > how do we EDUCATE
> > the otherwise sheepish members of our society?
> >
> > Mr. P.
> >
> > --- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, "Newton
> > Joseph"
> > <drnjoseph@s...> wrote:
> > > I don't think we can distroy religion. But I think
> > it can be
> > weakened.
> > > If it were possible that atheist groups with
> > unlimited resources in
> > > regards to money,we could have hour long twice
> > daily atheist programs
> > > on prime time TV. If Freethought publications were
> > given wider
> > > distrabution and if we had atheist columns in
> > major newspapers. "IF"
> > > magizines and newspapers were not cowed by the
> > threat of boycot from
> > > fanatical christian groups. If had atheist
> > lobbyists in
> > > Whashington, "if".
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 2
> >    Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 21:18:56 -0400
> >    From: n1n31nchn3rd <n1n31nchn3rd@p...>
> > Subject: Evangelical Scientists Refute Gravity With
> > New 'Intelligent Falling' Theory
> >
> >
> http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4133&n=2
> >
> > KANSAS CITY, KS—As the debate over the teaching of
> > evolution in public
> > schools continues, a new controversy over the
> > science curriculum arose
> > Monday in this embattled Midwestern state.
> > Scientists from the
> > Evangelical Center For Faith-Based Reasoning are now
> > asserting that the
> > long-held "theory of gravity" is flawed, and they
> > have responded to it
> > with a new theory of Intelligent Falling.
> > Rev. Gabriel Burdett (left) explains Intelligent
> > Falling.
> > Above: Rev. Gabriel Burdett (left) explains
> > Intelligent Falling.
> >
> > "Things fall not because they are acted upon by some
> > gravitational
> > force, but because a higher intelligence, 'God' if
> > you will, is pushing
> > them down," said Gabriel Burdett, who holds degrees
> > in education,
> > applied Scripture, and physics from Oral Roberts
> > University.<<
>
> "There is no fool like an educated fool,
> once he gets off the thing he was educated in."
>
> -Kenneth Copeland
>
> A user of science myself, I find nothing wrong with
> Burdett's statement. For instance, someone very
> sensible once wrote that we COULD all believe that the
> Universe revolved around the Earth IF WE CHOSE- all it
> would do is just make astronomical computations a bit
> more complicated. He wasn't advocating that- he wasn't
> some religious nut- he just made a point.
>
> Where I get very annoyed is where people concoct these
> sorts of theories, then KILL AND DIE FOR THEM. For
> WHAT? It is just a POINT OF VIEW!
>
> What makes it WORSE is when THERE IS NO PRACTICAL
> APPLICATION for the theory! What do you NEED it for,
> then? See, if, along with the theory, Burdett now
> reaches into his @$$, and yanks out A WORKING
> ANTI-GRAVITY ENGINE, aha! NOW YOU ARE TALKING!
> THAT would SURELY CHANGE LIFE ON EARTH AS WE KNOW IT!
>
> This is the Problem with Pentecostalism (my chosen
> religion): We got all these idiots who have visions
> (we can PROVE that they DO have some measure of
> usually uncontrollable ESP), and they meet "God." And
> all they TALK about is HOW TO START A NEW
> DENOMINATION! Why not ASK about, say, THE CURE FOR
> CANCER (I already got that one), or PERPETUAL MOTION
> (i.e. "FREE ENERGY," several someones else got that),
> or A NEW GOSPEL ACCOUNT of THE LIFE OF CHRIST that
> would END Christian disunity? (Working on it!) Silence
> and eradicate the irrational sick nuts for ever?
>
> But no- all we get out of them is something totally
> mundane and short-sighted- an unnecessary Healing or
> Prphetic "Gift" that would KILL ALL SPIRITUAL
> DEVELOPMENT in the recipient, and those influenced by
> him. (Example: Kenneth E. Hagin).
>
>
> > Burdett added: "Gravity—which is taught to our
> > children as a law—is
> > founded on great gaps in understanding. The laws
> > predict the mutual
> > force between all bodies of mass, but they cannot
> > explain that force.
> > Isaac Newton himself said, 'I suspect that my
> > theories may all depend
> > upon a force for which philosophers have searched
> > all of nature in
> > vain.' Of course, he is alluding to a higher
> power."<<
>
> When I discovered SCIENTOLOGY around 1994, my reaction
> was: WHY WAS I NOT *TOLD* THIS???
>
> Three of L. Ron Hubbard's key disclosures was that the
> Universe could be considered to be "Motion of Energy
> in Space through Time;" "ALL Thought is concerned
> wholly with motion;" "The Goal of all Existence is
> Survival, and only Survival."
>
> I realized then that what we in Bible Religion call
> "The Commandments of God" are THE PRESCRIBED VECTORS
> to PROMOTE LIFE. This had special significance to me,
> because in the Faith Movement we are taught that "The
> Word of God" "IS" Life.
> So I realized that "LIFE" depends on SUPERCEDING
> Newton's THREE LAWS OF MOTION.
>
> Inanimate objects and CORPSES obey Newton's Three Laws
> PERFECTLY, but LIVING THINGS DO NOT. Of course, if you
> add up all the motion going on in any organism, and
> correlate it with the calorific intake, you should
> probably find that no magic energy comes from or
> disappears to somewhere, BUT IN CHRISTIANITY
> ESPECIALLY, we are specifically commanded to MOVE
> DISPROPORTIONATELY to forces acting on us.
>
> NEWTON: Objects continue in a state of rest, or
> uniform motion in a straight line, unless acted upon
> by  unbalanced forces.
>
> JESUS: All things that you would others do for you, do
> ye also to them, for this IS The Law and The prophets.
>
> NEWTON: The rate of change of momentum is proportional
> to the force applied.
>
> JESUS: Bless them that curse you, do good to those who
> hate you.
>
> NEWTON: Action and reaction are equal and opposite.
>
> JESUS: If anyone smite thee on thy right chhek, turn
> to him the other also.
>
> =====================================
>
> We find that if we figure out how Human behavior is
> flawed by our occasionally acting like an inanimate
> object, a state New Testament thought calls "Death,"
> we can derive a philosophy of life very similar to
> what Jesus commanded, and the best teachings of the
> Old Testament. It is very intersting to note that
> JESUS' DISCIPLES and the so-called Apostle Paul
> SHARPLY DEVIATED from those teachings, and actually
> tried to HIDE Jesus' teachings from The Church- which
> is how all the trouble with Christianity REALLY
> started.
>
> I am very intersted in the fact that NO CHRISTIAN has
> ever reported what I have seen in L. Ron Hubbard's
> doctrine- which is derived from the entirety of
> Matthew 18 in The Bible.
>
> It gets even more interesting when you try out even
> those who consider themselves "deeply spiritual" with
> the teachings of Dr. Carlos Castaneda, the
> anthropologist who was accidentally trained as a
> Native American Nagual seer, able to *see* visions at
> will and teleport himself physically into Adjacent
> Universes.
> Carlos Castaneda proved more or less athenticity of
> the entirety of Jesus of Nazareth's "crazy doctrine,"
> but Christianity at large DOESN'T WANT TO KNOW THAT.
>
> The most important thing about L. Ron Hubbard and
> Carlos Castaneda is that THEY PROVE that you DON'T
> NEED TO sell your soul to YAHWEH GOD, JESUS, SATAN or
> any other entity, but if you just DISCIPLINE YOURSELF,
> you can attain ANY spiritual level or power that you
> want.
> ONLY Carlos Castaneda has ever revealed publicly
> EXACTLY what happens to people after they die, and
> what the alternate options are. (There have been
> people who knew this stuff all along, but they weren't
> talking. Some learned to keep their mouths shut the
> hard way!)
>
> >
> > Founded in 1987, the ECFR is the world's leading
> > institution of
> > evangelical physics, a branch of physics based on
> > literal interpretation
> > of the Bible.<<
>
> I have never heard of it, but I will predict THIS
> based on this one example you have shown us: THEY WILL
> GET NOWHERE.
>
> This thing has been tried before- CREATION RESEARCH
> INSTITUTE- debunkers of the Evolutionary Theory.
> They have some good points, but are stuck in a
> dead-end. Jesus himself said, to the effect that it is
> ridiculous to start to build a tower, then run out of
> money before it is finished, creating a monument to
> your own stupidity.
>
> Christians have long substituted knowing what is right
> themselves with telling other people they are wrong.
> If an "Unbeliever" does not know that God created the
> World, what is the business of a Christian to crucify
> him for that? He himself DOES NOT KNOW that God
> created the World- he merely BELIEVES IT. If he were
> SERIOUS, he would then FIND OUT HOW God created the
> World. This has NEVER happned in Christianity, yet.
> (Excluding myself: for I DO know, now, thanks to
> Hubbard and Castaneda. However, none of their
> followers seem able to follow me when I explain it to
> them, nor do they seem to have much of a handle on it
> themselves. The two founders of Scientology and
> Tensegrity can be demonstrated not to have realized
> what they really had, but put it to the most
> ridiculous use. Like inventing the diesel engine, and
> using it for a door stop.)
>
> >
> > According to the ECFR paper published simultaneously
> > this week in the
> > International Journal Of Science and the adolescent
> > magazine God's Word
> > For Teens!, there are many phenomena that cannot be
> > explained by secular
> > gravity alone, including such mysteries as how
> > angels fly, how Jesus
> > ascended into Heaven, and how Satan fell when cast
> > out of Paradise.<<
>
> The Bible originally said that Satan originated on
> Earth. This is consistent with certain phenomena that
> prove a basis to the "Fall of Man" story. No one I
> ever heard of has ever come up with SATAN'S REAL
> MOTIVE.
> WHY would an "ANGELIC BEING," possessed of superHuman
> wisdom OPPOSE GOD HIS CREATOR? What is IN it for him?
> WHY couldn't he FORSEE what would happen to him?
>
> But if you DISCOUNT the fragmentary hints of the
> DISCREDITED JEWISH "PROPHETS" (Isaiah and Ezekiel) and
> go back to MOSES ORIGINAL EXPLANATION you find that as
> an EARTH-CREATED ANIMAL, The "Serpent" has a VESTED
> INTEREST in STEALING MAN'S DIVINE-CLASS ENERGY that
> would enable him to Operate and Exist in the seven
> Higher Universes called "Heaven."
> Everything falls into place, then.
>
> It can be proven that this "Fall of Man" Op is STILL
> GOING ON. EVERYONE experiences this. "Sin" largely
> consists of UNTHINKING ACTIONS that will permit the
> "Devil" species to steal our constantly regenerating
> life force, until only about 1% of it is left.
> This is why Human life is so fragile.
> This is why our offspring are apparently born
> helpless.
> It is NOT natural.
>
> >
> > The ECFR, in conjunction with the Christian
> > Coalition and other
> > Christian conservative action groups, is calling for
> > public-school
> > curriculums to give equal time to the Intelligent
> > Falling theory. They
> > insist they are not asking that the theory of
> > gravity be banned from
> > schools, but only that students be offered both
> > sides of the issue "so
> > they can make an informed decision."
> >
> > "We just want the best possible education for
> > Kansas' kids," Burdett said.
> >
> > Proponents of Intelligent Falling assert that the
> > different theories
> > used by secular physicists to explain gravity are
> > not internally
> > consistent. Even critics of Intelligent Falling
> > admit that Einstein's
> > ideas about gravity are mathematically
> > irreconcilable with quantum
> > mechanics. This fact, Intelligent Falling proponents
> > say, proves that
> > gravity is a theory in crisis.
> >
> > "Let's take a look at the evidence," said ECFR
> > senior fellow Gregory
> > Lunsden."In Matthew 15:14, Jesus says, 'And if the
> > blind lead the blind,
> > both shall fall into the ditch.' He says nothing
> > about some gravity
> > making them fall—just that they will fall. Then, in
> > Job 5:7, we read,
> > 'But mankind is born to trouble, as surely as sparks
> > fly upwards.' If
> > gravity is pulling everything down, why do the
> > sparks fly upwards with
> > great surety? This clearly indicates that a
> > conscious intelligence
> > governs all falling."
> >
> > Critics of Intelligent Falling point out that
> > gravity is a provable law
> > based on empirical observations of natural
> > phenomena. Evangelical
> > physicists, however, insist that there is no
> > conflict
> === message truncated ===
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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The success or failure of an ideal, a way of life, or a movement is
partly the appeal of the paradigm in question, partly the intrinsic
truth of the matter, but mostly the ability to instill in others how
important the matter is to those who hold it dear. Without speakers
of the utmost alacrity in seizing the opportunity to promulgate said
passions and who cannot deliver passionate oration in defending
those ideals, all we may witness is the death of something that
otherwise may have thrived. We need prolific speakers capable of
delivering the secular message with such alacrity that there can be
no debate against the purity of our ideals.

Yes, there will be disagreement, I know this, but that is fine. It
is healthy. But that does not change the fact that we, and I mean
all atheists, agnostics, freethinkers…whatever silly and
insignificant name we choose to call ourselves…we need to realize
that our common goal is important enough to rally around and is not
something that is safe to leave on the back-burner of our lives
anymore. The gauntlet of the faithful has landed on our doorsteps
once again and is growing strong. We need to stand up for ourselves
and NOT let them make any one of us feel ashamed for finding a more
substantial truth to the whys and hows of existence. We may not have
the entire truth, but we are getting there.

Robert Green Ingersoll was a very public agnostic back when
agnosticism was by far more un-tasty to the general public of the
US. Today, while the stigma of being anti-religious is still
poignant, atheists and agnostics are so much more free to explain
our POV without fear of Comstock like laws. Yet there is no person
of note that will stand out and espouse our ideals, for to do so
would be to incur the supposed wrath of the American people. It has
come to social stigma alone, which has grown more powerful than
legal oppression, that decides the fate of those who dare to
question dogma these days. It is a method that has been used with
the utmost fecundity by the current US Administration. A method used
to inspire a feeling of religious fealty among a nation of otherwise
differing opinions and has created a situation where religion
thrives well: through fear of enemies, mistrust of neighbors and a
semblance of holy war.

Politicians bow to the religious mindless and insert god into
speeches to placate the mindless need to revere an imaginary friend
to those who may otherwise have none. Are we to believe that NONE of
our politicians on the national scene are atheist? Or do they simply
not admit it? Where are the great people of today that are not
afraid to stand up and speak out for a world without god, as
Ingersoll did so eloquently over 100 years ago! Where are the great
minds like Paine and Jefferson and Ingersoll today!? We need to find
them and find them quickly.

Kowtowing to religious groups and people minimizes the secular
nature of the reforms of history and of the present that were not
religious in nature. It insults the efforts of those who do not
succumb to the absurdity of a weakness of the mind, yet promote
values even more pure and honorable than any religion can, for it
relies on MAN and our ability to love and understand the position of
man in the universe.

"Secularism teaches us to be good here and now…I know of nothing
better than goodness. Secularism teaches us to be just here and now.
It is impossible to be juster than just…Secularism has no `castles
in Spain'. It has no glorified fog. It depends on realities, upon
demonstrations; and its end and aim is to make this world better
every day – to do away with poverty and crime, and to cover the
world with happy and contented homes."

These are the words of Robert Ingersoll. And how true they ring to
my ears, and I hope anyone that realizes that it is through human
compassion and abilities that a just civilization will be realized.
We must work to promote each other, for the sake of each other and
not for some pretend creator, which if does exist, seems not to care
too much for all the strife and suffering we must seemingly endure
while living within it's creation. There is no love evident in any
version of a creator, despite any words ever ascribed to it by
ancient pens, when all one has to do is look around and see that the
world in which we live is cruel and unusual. But we have persevered,
and not because of any divine intervention or favored hand of our
sky-daddy, but by human ingenuity and effort.

No, we are on our own people. Lets wake up and realize that before
it is too late. It is time to lay aside the age old, and perpetually
antiquated ideas of the religion of choice. It is time to find
another type of faith, a faith born from the depths of the only
thing that we can count on to be true, a faith that is not a blind
stab in an unknown darkness, but a faith that can only be gained by
looking deep into the blinding brightness of the truth. A faith that
is based on the capacity of the human mind and heart. No need for
idols and no need for false gods, which they all are.

I had seen on yahoo search where in the early 1990s
this guy named Vince Diehl had issued over fifty
prophecies regarding America,  that he issued all of
them in public, in writing,  and that they are all
coming true.  At one time I went to a web site from
Yahoo and read some of them. A few of the ones that
stick in my mind are:
        .
"God will stir up the Arabs against America ..."
        .
"Those who had built America will sink down;  And
those God has sent to torment America will rise
above them ..."
        .
One was about outsourcing our jobs.  Another was about
the World Trade Center.  Several had to do
with President Bush. Several had to do with Osama Bin
Laden and others.  Now I heard he has issued a
prophecy about "after" Katrina,  and I would like to
read it  IF  I could only find it
        .
Has anyone besides me seen or heard of these
prophecies?  Or does anyone know how I might find
them?  I'm kind of new at this sort of thing.  The
prophecies I already read are still on Yahoo and
Google,  but I don't find any that pertain to Katrina.
  From what I heard this new prophecy is really bad
news for America.

Can anyone please help me find the above ?

mouse

I wouldn't care about such bullshit.  You can twist anything vague
enough to mean anything you want it to.

--- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, "little_mouse_white"
<little_mouse_white@y...> wrote:
> I had seen on yahoo search where in the early 1990s
> this guy named Vince Diehl had issued over fifty
> prophecies regarding America,  that he issued all of
> them in public, in writing,  and that they are all
> coming true.  At one time I went to a web site from
> Yahoo and read some of them. A few of the ones that
> stick in my mind are:
>        .
> "God will stir up the Arabs against America ..."
>        .
> "Those who had built America will sink down;  And
> those God has sent to torment America will rise
> above them ..."
>        .
> One was about outsourcing our jobs.  Another was about
> the World Trade Center.  Several had to do
> with President Bush. Several had to do with Osama Bin
> Laden and others.  Now I heard he has issued a
> prophecy about "after" Katrina,  and I would like to
> read it  IF  I could only find it
>        .
> Has anyone besides me seen or heard of these
> prophecies?  Or does anyone know how I might find
> them?  I'm kind of new at this sort of thing.  The
> prophecies I already read are still on Yahoo and
> Google,  but I don't find any that pertain to Katrina.
>  From what I heard this new prophecy is really bad
> news for America.
>
> Can anyone please help me find the above ?
>
> mouse

Wow! That was pretty intense! Well, no matter how much you do
reasoning, how can you expect someone react rationally if you tell
him/her all their life was based on a lie. It won't work that way. I
think this is brain self defense mechanism. Even if you can
successfully convince him/her, it is very dangerous and you might
hurt them permanently. The other thing that you should consider is
brainwashing factor by parent; this process starts from day one and
like a disease goes generation to generation. But anyway, it was fun
reading your posting.

--- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, "Cut You Up In Pieces"
<slambango@y...> wrote:
>
> GOD IS A FALLACY
>
> The whole idea of god is a fallacy, circular reasoning. The
believer
> begins by asserting all things require a creator, but quickly
exempts
> god from the rule. Here lies the fallacy: If the universe requires
a
> creator, why doesn't god? The only answer they can come up with
> is, "Because he's god" and that's not very compelling.
>
> Few believers stop there, however. It's not enough to simply
accept
> the existence of some creator, oh no, there's more. The creator
has
> likes and dislikes, very much like a "turn on and turn off" list.
And
> it's all been written down in a book called the Bible. Of course
this
> brings up more problems: How can we be sure that the writers of
the
> book got it right, and were truly divinely inspired… Well that's
> easy…. YOU TOO must be divinely inspired, and then it's all
crystal
> clear, POP! instantly!
>
> The book goes much deeper than that… if you keep reading (past the
> flood, the famines, the massacres, baby killing and porno scenes
> complete with… well we won't go there) you'll get to the part
where
> god realizes he's still pissed off about what Eve did way back in
> Chapter 1, and he can't seem to find it in his heart to forgive
> mankind for the evil sin of eating from the forbidden tree of
> knowledge. So he does like any loving creator does, he kills his
own
> son, and leaves a few drunken fisherman and goat herders to write
it
> all down.
>
> Now, Here comes the good part… If you believe this story (written
and
> told by humans), the god is HAPPY with you, and will reward you
with
> eternal never-ending bliss, but if you don't believe the story,
look
> out, god will become angry and not allow you into the never-ending
> party of bliss.
>
> The whole part about the camel and the eye of the needle… that's
good
> too. This way, you can look at the rich man and laugh, "What a
fool,
> he'll never get to heaven like me". But does the rich man care?
Heck
> no! He's having way too much fun with all that cash to worry
> seriously about the afterlife.
>
> Christianity or Crack Cocaine?
>
> Which is more Dangerous? I say Christianity, by far. "How can I
say
> this?" you ask. Both are destructive to the mind, distort reality,
> and destroy a person's ability to prioritize things in their life.
> Both are based on a lack of self-worth, and the need to escape
from
> reality. But why is Jesus more dangerous than crack? Because Jesus
is
> passed off as a good thing, and it's used as a recovery system for
> people hooked on crack and other drugs. They might be better off
> quitting Jesus for the crack, but you'll never convince them of
that.
>
> Lots of people enjoy getting high, there's nothing wrong with
that…
> Even Jesus had wine at every dinner party, so why condemn
someone's
> drug of choice? What makes marijuana worse than some new designer
> drug just approved by the FDA to help woody with his pecker
(destined
> to be pulled from the market after two or three hundred deaths are
> attributed to it)?
>
> Jesus Said You Must Hate Your Family
>
> Hey! I didn't write it! But, much to the chagrin of most
Christians,
> it's right there in Luke 14:26 (KJV) for all to see. It's not a
> metaphor, it's not out of context, its not part of a parable.
There's
> simply no way to deny that Jesus came right out and demanded his
> disciples to hate their families. I've heard some Christians say
I'm
> misinterpreting the word "hate", which always makes me chuckle, as
> I'm simply reading it from the page, no interpretation required.
Then
> of course we have the famous "hate means love-less" dance they do.
> This is devastating once you point out that if hate can mean love,
> then up can mean down, black can mean white and nothing in the
Bible
> can be trusted to be meaningful at all.
>
> Are they convinced? Do they throw down the Bible and say, "You got
> me, this whole book must be baloney." Well, no, of course not. The
> Christian cult has so brainwashed these poor fools that they have
> little chance of escaping. In most cases the whole idea is planted
> very young. "God wants you to believe he exists, and he left this
> book." I always thought, "Wow, and he expects me to believe THESE
> idiots?"
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> So, after reading all this you might ask, "Why are there so many
> christians in the world if their religious beliefs are so stupid?
How
> could so many people be fooled by such nonsense??"
>
> THE ANSWER:
>
> The same way people were fooled by disco, polyester & the ice
capades.

Wow! That was pretty intense! Well, no matter how much you do
reasoning, how can you expect someone react rationally if you tell
him/her all their life was based on a lie. It won't work that way. I
think this is brain self defense mechanism. Even if you can
successfully convince him/her, it is very dangerous and you might
hurt them permanently. The other thing that you should consider is
brainwashing factor by parent; this process starts from day one and
like a disease goes generation to generation. But anyway, it was fun
reading your posting.


--- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, "Cut You Up In Pieces"
<slambango@y...> wrote:
>
> GOD IS A FALLACY
>
> The whole idea of god is a fallacy, circular reasoning. The
believer
> begins by asserting all things require a creator, but quickly
exempts
> god from the rule. Here lies the fallacy: If the universe requires
a
> creator, why doesn't god? The only answer they can come up with
> is, "Because he's god" and that's not very compelling.
>
> Few believers stop there, however. It's not enough to simply
accept
> the existence of some creator, oh no, there's more. The creator
has
> likes and dislikes, very much like a "turn on and turn off" list.
And
> it's all been written down in a book called the Bible. Of course
this
> brings up more problems: How can we be sure that the writers of
the
> book got it right, and were truly divinely inspired… Well
that's
> easy…. YOU TOO must be divinely inspired, and then it's all
crystal
> clear, POP! instantly!
>
> The book goes much deeper than that… if you keep reading (past
the
> flood, the famines, the massacres, baby killing and porno scenes
> complete with… well we won't go there) you'll get to the part
where
> god realizes he's still pissed off about what Eve did way back in
> Chapter 1, and he can't seem to find it in his heart to forgive
> mankind for the evil sin of eating from the forbidden tree of
> knowledge. So he does like any loving creator does, he kills his
own
> son, and leaves a few drunken fisherman and goat herders to write
it
> all down.
>
> Now, Here comes the good part… If you believe this story
(written
and
> told by humans), the god is HAPPY with you, and will reward you
with
> eternal never-ending bliss, but if you don't believe the story,
look
> out, god will become angry and not allow you into the never-ending
> party of bliss.
>
> The whole part about the camel and the eye of the needle…
that's
good
> too. This way, you can look at the rich man and laugh, "What a
fool,
> he'll never get to heaven like me". But does the rich man care?
Heck
> no! He's having way too much fun with all that cash to worry
> seriously about the afterlife.
>
> Christianity or Crack Cocaine?
>
> Which is more Dangerous? I say Christianity, by far. "How can I
say
> this?" you ask. Both are destructive to the mind, distort reality,
> and destroy a person's ability to prioritize things in their life.
> Both are based on a lack of self-worth, and the need to escape
from
> reality. But why is Jesus more dangerous than crack? Because Jesus
is
> passed off as a good thing, and it's used as a recovery system for
> people hooked on crack and other drugs. They might be better off
> quitting Jesus for the crack, but you'll never convince them of
that.
>
> Lots of people enjoy getting high, there's nothing wrong with
that…
> Even Jesus had wine at every dinner party, so why condemn
someone's
> drug of choice? What makes marijuana worse than some new designer
> drug just approved by the FDA to help woody with his pecker
(destined
> to be pulled from the market after two or three hundred deaths are
> attributed to it)?
>
> Jesus Said You Must Hate Your Family
>
> Hey! I didn't write it! But, much to the chagrin of most
Christians,
> it's right there in Luke 14:26 (KJV) for all to see. It's not a
> metaphor, it's not out of context, its not part of a parable.
There's
> simply no way to deny that Jesus came right out and demanded his
> disciples to hate their families. I've heard some Christians say
I'm
> misinterpreting the word "hate", which always makes me chuckle, as
> I'm simply reading it from the page, no interpretation required.
Then
> of course we have the famous "hate means love-less" dance they do.
> This is devastating once you point out that if hate can mean love,
> then up can mean down, black can mean white and nothing in the
Bible
> can be trusted to be meaningful at all.
>
> Are they convinced? Do they throw down the Bible and say, "You got
> me, this whole book must be baloney." Well, no, of course not. The
> Christian cult has so brainwashed these poor fools that they have
> little chance of escaping. In most cases the whole idea is planted
> very young. "God wants you to believe he exists, and he left this
> book." I always thought, "Wow, and he expects me to believe THESE
> idiots?"
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> So, after reading all this you might ask, "Why are there so many
> christians in the world if their religious beliefs are so stupid?
How
> could so many people be fooled by such nonsense??"
>
> THE ANSWER:
>
> The same way people were fooled by disco, polyester & the ice
capades.

bestonnet_00 wrote:

> I wouldn't care about such bullshit.  You can twist anything vague
> enough to mean anything you want it to.

And there's nothing more vague than the term god because once they
attempt to describe/define it, it can easily be refuted.

Check out the post for 9/12/2005 by Timothy Schoonover. He is the
resident fiction writer on booktalk.org.

I like this story. It speaks so truthfully on the extremist mind.

http://tinyurl.com/amfkj

Mr. P.