Hello everyone.  I am new to the forum and was referred here by a respected
author.  I have never written a book before, but I am currently in the process
of trying my hand at a book about 1850's gangsters.  While most history books
tend to speak of the gangster era starting with the prohibition days, this book
is going to take it back 100 years earlier.

There was a quite extensive criminal network of horse thieves, counterfeiters,
and robbers, who operated in Canada, New York, Michigan, Ohio, Indiana and
eventually branched out to Illinois and Iowa.  They were connected in all of the
ways the 1930's gangsters were connected, except I can find very little evidence
of one group fighting another.  They even had the political influence to receive
on Presidential pardons and three pardons from Governors of two different
states.

Admittedly, several chapters will also be about a relative of mine, who was an
admitted horse thief.  He was arrested and hung by the neck in 1858.

I have a background in Criminal Justice.  I have a four year degree in Justice
administration, worked for 10 years for uniformed law enforcement in two states
and three years in uniformed federal law enforcement.  I actually finding my
background makes it slightly difficult in book writing.  I have grown used to
writing specific fact reports, while book writing requires more 'flowery' words
that I am not used to using.

I am interested from hearing everyone as to the topic itself, suggestions on how
to make the book work, and anything you would like to see in the book.  I am
kept my expectations low on this project as I'm a 'newbie' but I still want to
give it my best shot.

Linda, I can't believe its already been a year since Rick, left this place we
call planet earth. I wasn't really a personal friend of his. Although I have
been in contact with him from time to time when he was alive. My contact with
him was a very friendly & pleasant experience. He was one of the most
knowledgeable people I knew when it came to organized crime stuff. He's a
seriously missed organized crime researcher & buff. I still reference his
treasure trove of an almanac from time to time.

Josh

--- In gangsterologists@yahoogroups.com, "RickM" <mdog_921@...> wrote:
>
> Here is a link to the video which was played during Rick's final farewell
service one year ago today. Everyone please raise a glass and toast this
remarkable man at 6pm tonight! I'm sure wherever he is Halloween will never be
the same.
> Love ya all, Linda
>
> http://youtu.be/VYCekEn4Pyc
>
> Just copy and paste
>

For anyone interested, there is a restaurant down in Hudson, Indiana.  It used
to be called Dillingers, but rumor has it the Dillinger family wasn't happy
about the restaurant using their name, so it was changed to the Gangster Grille.

The restaurant was built in a building that was formerly a bank that was robbed
by Dillinger.

You would have to ask the restaurant for sure, but I thought I remembered there
being bullet holes still in the wall.

Hudson is a very small town in Steuben County, Indiana located in the far
northeast part of the state.  I ate there one time when it was still Dillingers.
I really can't remember if the food was good or not, as I only remember the bad
meals.

I used to live down in Mooresville, Indiana which was the home of Dillinger. The
funeral home that had his services was torn down about ten years ago to make
room for a video store.  Sad to lose that history but I guess we can't save it
all.

I just came across an interesting anecdote in a trivia book. It says that when
Capone hitmen caught up with Northside gang member Jack Zuta in a resort near
Milwaukee, they shot him on the dance floor, and their fire was so intense that
it slammed him into a coin-operated piano. The piano then began to play, "Good
for You, Bad for Me." Anyone know if that's true?  Ed Butts

Does Jack also get credit for the terminology "Zuta Suit"? ...Oh, wait, that was
"Zoot Suit", huh? :)
Sorry...Ha! Pam "Rabbit" Tippet

--- In gangsterologists@yahoogroups.com, "Ed B" <edpbutts@...> wrote:
>
> I just came across an interesting anecdote in a trivia book. It says that when
Capone hitmen caught up with Northside gang member Jack Zuta in a resort near
Milwaukee, they shot him on the dance floor, and their fire was so intense that
it slammed him into a coin-operated piano. The piano then began to play, "Good
for You, Bad for Me." Anyone know if that's true?  Ed Butts
>

Thanks for your input, Ron and Bill. I had a hunch that Bentz, Doll and Simons
were involved. Judging from Doll's statements, Gus Stone sounds a lot like Vern
Miller; however, there are several elements to the story that equally suggest
Stone and Miller were not one in the same.

Bob


--- In gangsterologists@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Rosner" <Outlaw502@...> wrote:
>
> After being arrested, Eddie Doll told federal agents that besides himself, the
other pepole involved with the Lincoln robbery were Homer Wilson, Eddie Bentz,
Old Charlie (Fitzgerald), Gus Stone, Big Slim and Shorty.  Shorty is believed to
be Avery Simons.  Doll stated Big Slim was killed at Redwing, Minnesota by
gangsters early in 1933.  I got this from the FBI files online of the Bremer
kidnapping, Part 15, starting at page 203.  As far as the Winkler killing, the
one name that kept popping up was Charles Fitzgerald.
>

Ran across something today, I've never seen offered before, a Colt Monitor
Machine Rifle. Maybe it's the long lost Baby Face Nelson one...

Asking $59,000.00

I did a search to see if anyone posted on this topic in the past.  I didn't see
anything, so I apologize if this has already been covered.

If anyone wants some interesting reading, the FBI had a list of topics in which
they get the most recent Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests.

For example, one of the first on the list is the files on Al Capone.  It is not
just limited to gangsters, but they have a few on the most requested list. 
Everything is web based and available for free without any kind of membership
username / password, etc.

Here is the link:  http://vault.fbi.gov/reading-room-index

Enjoy!

This maybe a military version, it's marked as a Colt Automatic Machine Rifle,
Ohio Ordanance has it. I also thought the last one was at 100,000 something.
Looks like a Monitor with a removable bipod and no muzzle break.
Maybe like Browning did with the 1918 BAR and the converted WWII BAR with the
bipod, and parkerized etc. for war use.

To rich for my blood anyway.

Sandy



> The last one I'd seen for sale was more like $90K.   So, if you're in the
market that actually sounds like a deal.
>
>

It's the R75A, if you go to Ohio Ordnance Works web page it's advertised on the
site. It was advertised on one of the gun sites.
Colt Automatic Machine Rifle, 30.06.
There is a rather common video of Hoover on a firing range watching agents
firing off Monitors ( I assume ) I bet Monitor parts are easy to find- With 125
Colt Monitors ever made, still wonder how Nelson got his hands on one and where
it went.
Good info from you & Jim Ballou. I don't have his book, but remember when he was
writing it- This was back in the days of Rick Cartridge and some others.
Is Hamer's Colt Monitor still on display at the Texas Ranger Museum ? 100K gun
hanging on the wall. Geeeez.

--- In gangsterologists@yahoogroups.com, dc10dvr@... wrote:
>
> Sandy,
> If it doesn’t have the Cutts Compensator, then it  probably isn’t a
> Monitor.  They all had it and none of them had a bi-pod or  a finned barrel. 
Colt
> made several commercial (as opposed to military)  versions of the BAR that
> they called the Colt Automatic Machine Rifle,  beginning right after WWI.
> The 1924 model was the first to have the added  pistol grip.  The next year,
> they added a bi-pod and a heaver finned  barrel.  The Monitor seems to have
> been a special variant of this  model.  The Monitor production ran from 1931
> through about 1940.   There were probably only 125 ever produced, and 90 of
> them went to the  FBI.  The Monitor was designed especially for law
> enforcement.  It  was 4 pounds lighter than the standard BAR, but was very
> controllable  because of the Cutts Compensator.
>
> If the gun you saw has a bi-pod and no compensator, it is almost  certainly
> what Colt called the model R75 or R75A.  If the bi-pod is  supported by an
> extra rod that runs below the gas tube, it is an R75.  If  it is supported
> by the gas tube itself, it is an R75A  The monitor was  called the R80.
>
> In case you are wondering how I could remember all that, I am  actually
> sitting here with my copy of  “A Rock in a Hard  Place”  by James L.
Ballou,
> basically “The Bible” on BARs and their  variants.  If you collect a few
> books like this, you too can sound like an  expert, while just reading from
> somebody else’ book, like me.
>
> Capt MidKnight
>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/7/2011 10:02:42 Central Standard Time,
> outlawhistory@... writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> This maybe a military version, it's marked as a Colt Automatic Machine
> Rifle, Ohio Ordanance has it. I also thought the last one was at 100,000
> something. Looks like a Monitor with a removable bipod and no muzzle  break.
> Maybe like Browning did with the 1918 BAR and the converted WWII BAR  with
> the bipod, and parkerized etc. for war use.
>
> To rich for my blood  anyway.
>
> Sandy
>
> > The last one I'd seen for sale was more like  $90K. So, if you're in the
> market that actually sounds like a deal.
> >
> >
>

I want one !!!! I had three display Monitors, which you probably saw one, made
with an FND and BAR receiver, Cutts Comp. One is in the DC Museum, other two are
in private collections. I doubt you can even get the parts these days, maybe a
grand for a 18 parts set ?

I want Nelson's Colt Monitor and the 1928 Thompson that the Dillinger gang
picked up in Racine.

Sell your Lear, to expensive to fly anymore anyway. My birthday is in April but
Christmas is just around the corner. Hint !





--- In gangsterologists@yahoogroups.com, dc10dvr@... wrote:
>
> Sandy,
> As far as Hamer's monitor is concerned, I can't imagine that the  Ranger
> Museum would have let it get away.  If a generic Monitor would fetch  100K,
> think of what one with a provenance directly to Frank Hamer might  cost!
>
> BTW, the price that Colt charged for a new Monitor back in the '30s  was
> $300, which included a cleaning kit and 6 magazines.
>