Shree Hari Ram Ram

This brings closure to this topic.   thank you all for your participation.
Gita Talk Moderators,
Ram Ram

Dear Geeta Sadhakas, Namaskar

B. Sathyanarayanji has mentioned in one of his postings...In Upanishadas, it is
stated that Mahapralayam (Final Dissolution) is expected, sometime, when the
whole Earth will be covered with water....

That is true. It is an example of the scientific foresight, our Great Thinkers
of the Past (GTPs) had....Just think it over scientifically...you will get the
answer....

Presently, there are mountains...material at high level..and oceans, lakes,
rivers etc... water filled at low levels...Now erosion is taking place...every
year tons and tons of soil is brought down from high levels and that is filling
the low lying areas of the earth...

In thousands of years...the high level areas will be gradually reduced and low
lying areas will be filled with soil...

In essesnce the Earth`s surface is getting equalised....A state will come, when
these levels will be equal...then where will the water of the rains, lakes,
rivers and oceans will go?...

It will cover the whole surface of Earth...and that is exactly the concept of
Mahapralaya as stated in Upanishads....

...Gee Waman

===============================================

Hari Om

The Scriptures of Sanatan Dharma are enchanting . One has to read them to
believe. Here is nectar bath to all of you, Divine Sadhaks from Yoga Vashishtha:

Shrishti layayo paunahpunyam- CONSTANT REPETION OF CREATION ANS DISSOLUTION :

Multitudes of living beings will spring up like fresh sprouts in the spring
season and will go to destruction there itself, like sugar canes in summer.
Those very multitudes of living beings and others are repeatedly born,
constantly stay in periods of time and are absorbed in the Supreme Spirit.

Certain species of living beings are of long standing at the end of a thousand
births.Certain classes are settled in the state having some past births. Having
risen repeatedly with time and having experienced a succession of bodies,
multitudes of living beings by themselves disappear in the Abode that is the
Supreme Spirit.

Kalpaante Sarvasankhshayah- THE DESTRUCTION OF EVERYTHING AT THE E0ND OF AN AEON
:

At the close of Kalpa (an aeon or cyclic universal period), the remaining
objective world perishes entirely and quickly , just as a dream-city perishes
for one who has gone to the state of deep sleep! At that time, the earth,
mountains, the ten quarters, activity, time and order perish without
distinction. Nothing whatever is left remaining.

All beings perish and even the sky, together with semblance of the whole world,
vanishes all round on account of the non-existence of one who perceives it !!
Even the name of even those beginning with Brahma, Visnu and Rudra , who are
indeed the causes of all causes, does not exist here beyond the end of cycle of
time.

At the end of an aeon , this world is extinguished as a dream in the act of
waking or as wakefulness is extinguished in sleep. This entire world, animate
and inanimate , that is seen, perishes at the end of kalpa like a dream in deep
sleep...!!!

Brahmaiva Kalpaantevashishyate - ONLY ULTIMATE REALITY IS LEFT REMAINING AT THE
END OF AN AEON:

Then at the end of a universal cycle of time, a certain Existence (or Reality)
is left remaining, which is without name, unmanifest, still and profound,
extended infinitely and is neither light nor darkness. There exists only Brahman
calm, undecaying, infinite in nature, void, eternally risen, subtle, without
limitation or attribute and staying as Supreme Spirit !!!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
----------------------------------------------

You and the world is a singular process. The world can not be vouchsafed without
'you'. and 'you' is all the time subject to death(not-being). Known plus unknown
is the totality. When brain has a touch with the unknown, one sees continuous
destruction and renewal. When the totality is seen (known and unknown), one sees
the whole game as 'live' and not with a sense of fear or aloofness. One is not
separate from the process (destruction and renewal). By talking about the end of
the world, one is simply trying to ward off the stress of 'not-being', which is
all the time with you.
Now one sees oneself as not different from the 'whole', which includes
destruction and renewal and so on.
Y V Chawla

-------------------------------------------------

Let us first understand what does Bhagavatam and other scriptures say ---

Each full day of brahma has day and night. During day time, there is creation.
During night, the whole creation is destroyed. New creation starts again with
the next day.

Each day is comprised of 100 kalpas. One kalpa is comprised of 4 yugas - satya,
treta, dvapara and kali-yuga.
The duration of kalpa is 432,000 * (1 + 2 + 3 + 4) = 4, 320, 000 years.

Each day of brahma is divided into 14 manvantaras. Each manvantara has new Manu,
Indra, sapta-rishis etc.  We are currently on 7th manvantara.
With the change of man-vantara, there is partial annihilation. Creation is
destroyed. New manu brings forth creation again.

You might be able to show correlation of above theory with science. It might be
worth researching. But I think it is beyond the purview of this group.

Srimad Bhagavatam discusses above concepts elaborately. Personally, I don't
care. I need to solve and understand my current situation.

Swami Ramsukhdasji did not focus on these topics.

At His feet in service,
G B

----------------------------------------------

JAI SHRI RAM,
IT IS ABOUT SPIRITUAL DISSOLUTION, WITH THE SPREAD OF KNOWLEDGE,  AND NOT THE
PHYSICAL DISSOLUTION. WATER IN THIS CASE IS THE SYMBOL OF SPREAD OF UNIFORM
DHARMA WHERE BECAUSE OF KNOWLEDGE NO PREJUDICES REMAINS.
A.K.Mukhi


------------------------------------------
regarding mini mahapralayas i would like to say that they keepon happening so
frequently that we forget them very soon --sunamis ,floods ,volcanoes
earthquakes and in so many other forms thousands of people get killed become
homeless and many other die as after effectsdue to diseases ---previously also
many times people had forecasted about total destruction of the earth but
nothing happened of the scale of their predictions regarding the age of one
person --i believe the time of birth ,death are all predestined even the place
so why should we worry .at least i think worrying about the life --doing good
for someone or be useful to someone ..can be a cause for worry .jai shree
krishna
Chaman nigam

---------------------------------------------
Dear Sadaks,
All messages are posted with context to Puranas, Sastras, Vedas Etc. Nothing I
am contributing. Sadaks want references can always ask.
Krtitha Yug (Sathya Yug) 17, 28,000 years, Thretha Yug 12,96,000, Dwaperyug
8,64,000 and Kaliyug 4,32,000 years. Sadaks once this period is over
Mahapralayam said in Srimath Bhagavath more clearly in detail. First huge fire
Maha Agni swallows water & earth, (Imagine a glass of water placed before 1 Lakh
Kw heater furnace- water disappears in 3 seconds), Then hug wind (Maha Vayu) at
nearly 500 Km speed swallows fire, this Maha Agni abides in Avyaktham and this
in stomach of Sri Vishnu. About Pralayam it is in Bible also. A big boat built
by God devote, carried all species etc during great pralaya. Same appears in
Vishnu puran about Sapta Rishies in boat with all spices saved by Match Avathar-
fish Avathar (Big Wale). During nearing end of Maha Pralaya human height will be
2.5 feet and age span 35 years most. Woman conceives at age 8. Everywhere fraud
and lies (It explains types of fraud & lies & cheating), even at that time if a
man could pluck Thumba flower (Thumba Plant height 2 ft) and places it before
Sri Narayana in Manasha roop, he gets liberated. Probably, Bagavan said,
Pathram, Pushpam Thoyam--. In old testament this 4 yugas are depicted in as a
square with one line vertical and another horizontal it makes 4 small Squares.
Columbus was beheaded for telling earth is round by Christian fanatics. They
never thought as symbol. Similarly Hindi Bhrama is depicted with 4 heads- 4
yugas. If you add up all 4 yugas it is 4,32,0000. Like this 27 Maha Pralayas
have completed and we are in 28th. The soft ware of GOD is, if one observe, take
any flower/fruit it will have 3 or 5 or 9 or 13 petals or contours. Even leaves
if you take Vilva it will be 3 and Maha Vilva 1. The leaf nerves will be in
3,5,7,9, etc. Number 9 is key word in astrology and it is non divisable says
scientist. That is all for now. If futher please ask.
B.S

---------------------------------------------------
As per Vedic time scale given in Bhagavatham... span of Kali yug is 4,32,000 yrs
and only we have crossed 5,100 yrs till now... then why do we panic about this
2012/mahapralayam?

Suneel Kotte

----------------------------------------------------
Dear Sadhaks,
It is my third post on this subject,and I feel to communicate.The holes in ozone
layer is bound to allow various harmful radiations reigning cosmos.Another point
is,just suopose a baloon full of pressurised air collapsing when a small hole is
pricked.We live on a pressurised environment of earth which decreases as we
ascend.Outside our environment is almost vacuum of cosmos.Any accident arising
out of our unusual activities on earth can release this air into cosmos and the
earth will be depleted of its environment so essential for our existence.
subhashtewari

--------------------------------------------------
Dear Sadhakas,
It is sad to see that Krishna's followers are running scared of and spreading
panic(?),about Pralaya...it has to come,whether you like it or not...that will
mark the end of Kaliyuga...which runs for 432000 years since it began...
And herald the GOLDEN PERIOD IN THE ANNALS OF THE WORLD'S HISTORY... !
With best wishes,
Yogesh Lajmi

------------------------------------------


Thanks to the so called scientific and technological advancement and the callous
human nature and the heckling of Dharma, the ozone layer has been punctured and
the earth is exposed to the radiational effect from sun and probably from many
other celestial bodies. the result is warming of polar regions resulting in
increase of sea levels. As the member said, there may not be mountains above
earths surface; they will be submerged under the seas. End of the earth was
anticipated logically. everything that has a beginning (physical) has to end.
AVYAKTAAT VYAKTAYA SARVAAH PRABHAVAMTI AHAH AAGAME
RAATRI AAGAME PRALEEYAMTE TATRA EVA AVYAKTA SAMGJIKE
Do not worry about pralaya and do not contribute to vilaya. If and when it has
to come it will come. We just wait and serve our fellow beings.
krishna

----------------------------------------------
Dear Ones, Namaste!

It is very interesting observation by Gee Wamanji, scientifically solid.
However, at the end of all such observations, I say so what? My response is the
only thing that matters! Here it is!

In the light of Bhagwad Gita Ch 2: 20 and 2:23, it doesn't matter what will
happen in time and space.
Everything located in space and time changes constantly, dying as one form and
born again as another form eternally, in a cyclical manner. Some cycles are
relatively longer and some are shorter, that is all. It is how IT is. One who
has problem with what IS, goes through suffering!

Even without Mahapralayas, people are dying due to their own afflictions and
inflictions! We should do the best we could to help alleviate suffering of the
people around us by using our body-mind as tool to serve and play our assigned
role in harmony with so-called others! It is our Karma in line with Dharma while
remaining lovingly detached!

I live from the vantage point of That which is not born in all births, never
died in all deaths, cannot be harmed by mahapralays! I am no forms, even as
appearing as all forms!

Namaskar...Pratap
------------------------------------------

Sarga … Pralaya … Mahaa Sarga … Mahaa Pralaya …



Origin and end of physical world CAN NEVER BE WITHIN HUMAN PERCEPTION as no
human brain can neither sustain the world nor can it dictate the world in any
fashion. One each human brain is mere dust in universal space. Two, each human
span is mere micro-seconds in universal span. One who does not author something
can never wield any authority over that in any fashion. Forget about authoring
the universal fate or even planetary fate of earth, one cannot even read their
history beyond a fraction that is exposed to one's observation. How can you
expect a limited intellect such as human ever fathom the magnanimous truth of
existence across the universe?



It can only imagine based on extrapolations and interpolations of its
observation within its miniscule span of existence. Therefore, all utterances
regarding the end of physical world remain mere utterances … may be as good as
the words from best physicists such as Steven or Einstein ... a speculation.
Planetary inception and dissolution are often referred to as Sarga and Pralaya
while universal inception and dissolution are often called Mahaa Sarga and Mahaa
Pralaya respectively. Of course, with all humility, I have to concede that there
is immense appreciation beneath such observations ... yet, I am afraid, I have
to say that they cannot exceed the speculative limits ever ...



What makes sense and appears useful to me is the spiritual meanings of these
phenomena. The only world we author is the world of our notions and emotions
which is often considered as Maayaa, illusion, by many seers. Study of their
origin individually (Sarga) and collectively (Mahaa Sarga) is essential to
annihilate the same individually (Pralaya) and collectively (Mahaa Pralaya).
Even the life perceived is noting but the span of time and space embedded within
these dominions. All our scriptures focus on this aspect - the perceived life
and its nature in order to understand their roots in their origin and their
destinations in their termination. Of course observations on the physical world
are often drawn to put across the appreciation effectively in order to
appreciate the intricate world built within.



An individual is born bound to one's individually perceived world (Sarga). There
are debates whether that Sarga runs across physical births and deaths ... but,
can never be conclusively established. However, one suffers (enjoys?!) existence
within this perceived domain as one remains bound within the cocoon. To
appreciate the universal presence and the associated qualities, one will have to
break open this individual cocoon! That is the true Pralaya to the individual as
the ego truly perishes.



Since one is still bound to the bigger cocoons of collective existence such as
society and nature, one will continue to be bound within the limits of those in
one's perception. A subtle ego remains which can grow back to the individual
domain at any time. Therefore, the peace attained remain limited. Then the next
level practice and cultivation starts to appreciate the nature of universal
existence, origin and destination. Only when one appreciates the individual
nature of origin, existence and destination can ever fathom the extrapolated
appreciation in terms of universal bounds to existence. When one is able to
break open the boundaries of universally existential bondage, one is truly
liberated from a possibility of ego ever. That is the true Mahaa Pralaya.



Asmaanllokaan pretya …

Etamannamayamaatmaanamupasankramya …

Etam praaNamayamaatmaanamupasankramya …

Etam manomayamaatmaanamupasankramya …

Etam vignyaanamayamaatmaanamupasankramya …

Etamanandamayamaatmaanamupasankramya …

Imaallokaan kaammannee kaamaroopyanusancharan …



Respects.



Naga Narayana.
-----------------------------------------------
Mahaprayayam can also begin if accidentally or politically motivativated nuclear
holocaust happens.The whole of glaciers in antartica and arctic region will
melt,some part may boil off into clouds and cause immense inundation throughout
the world.Rest of misery may occur due to radiation.Asides,some asteroids may
cause unforeseen destruction.Volcanoes erupt because of internal pressure of
gases within earth.Their is eneough of hydrogen as hot metal at the centre of
earth which if gets a vent can boil off oceans or anything.Quaymat,otherwise,is
far away as our patron star,Sun,will blow some 4 billion years
later.Sun,blasting will burn anything in its present proximity of planets,I mean
upto Pluto. So,the 2012 Mhaprayalam,can occur only due to bad intentions and bad
karma.
subhashtewari

--------------------------------------------------

-Shree Hari-

Namaste!

Geology

'The Formation of the Himalayas

Although the phase of major upheaval of the Himalayas has passed, the
Himalayas are still rising, albeit at a much slower rate. The Indian
plate is continuously moving north at the rate of about 2 cms every
year. Because of this reason the Himalayas are rising at the rate of
about 5 millimeter per year. This means that the Himalayas are still
geologically active and structurally unstable. For this reason,
earthquakes are a frequent occurrence in the entire Himalayan region. '

Mountains and land is dynamic process: An undersea volcano erupting just south
of Spain's Canary Islands may be the beginnings of a new island, or an extension
to an existing one. For some, it's a colourful spectacle - for others a major
blow to their livelihood.

Where I live there is a yacht club, problem is it has no water it's land bound,
since when I first knew the clubhouse in the 1970, it and the jetty where large
fishing boats used to moor, have seen the encroachment of the land caused by
marine deposits, this area is depository, the jetty has been completely covered
by sand, the remnants pulled up. There are ancient ports around the world many
miles inland, yes and others under the ocean. Australia is a very ancient land,
its mountains have been greatly eroded, but paradoxically the entire centre of
the country was once under the ocean.

So long as there is tectonic plates in collision and continental drift, we will
always have new land/mountains(and loose old land), as long as there are tides
and winds, you will have land erosion and land deposits, the system is dynamic.

As I see it all activity must stop for the land to be covered in
water. But no activity means no wind no rain, thus no erosion, ah such a
paradox!

Om ... Shanti ...

Mike

------------------------------------------------------------

Here in the cities, we are covering mother earth with cement and tar with
abandon. Drilling borewells sucking moisture from her with abandon. We are
averse to growing plants because it attracts snakes and human labour. Even used
water is diverted to somewhere away. Civilisation is making mother earth
underneath our feet as parched as possible. If mother earth attracts pralaya to
quench her thirst or for further existence even that comes across as blessing.
"...paadasparsham khamaswame..." is not enough a mantra. narakaasura is residing
in us with vengeance!
Pranaam
Veena

----------------------------------------------

After mahapralayam, how and when the equalised surface of the earth brings
mountains and oceans in to being? What physical agency does so? Speak
scientifically, please.
Humbly,
Saadhaka

-----------------------------------------------

Radhey ! Radhey !!

So take one step forward. A mini-pralay (our own death) is already at the door
step ..let us worry about the same. What is our readiness? DO BATON KO BHOOL MAT
JO CHAHE KALYAAN ! NARAIN EK MAUT KO DOOJE SHREE BHAGWAAN !!

But there is time for MAHAPRALAY. So far humanity is eating only animals, they
have not yet become cannibals. We are in Kaliyuga- only 5000 years of Kaliyuga
have yet completed. In TRETA YUGA even the people had started eating flesh of
holy people/sadhus/saints. We have not yet reached that ferocity. Soon Holy
Ganges will return to Her abode in Vainkuntha (in another 50/75 years). All
teerthas except Kashi and Vrindavan shall go back to their origins with Holy
Ganges. The average age of humans shall fall to 25/30 years. A 13 year old girl
with become grand ma ! The humanity is heading towards extra ordinary
deterioration. It will take time. So far only ghastly sins like abortions,
foetus killing are increasing, a day will come when anybody talking even about
God will be eaten alive. Humanity at large will not even get water easily, what
to talk of food !

Hence let us concentrate on priority about our own emancipation.

Radhey ! Radhey !!

Nisha Chatterji
---------------------------------------------

There has been too much air about this apprehension since last few
years,particularly in reference to Mayan forecasts.About 3-4 years back when
Large Head Collider machine started working in Cern,Switzerland,the
apprehensions went very prevailed throughout the world.It was doubted that
accidental generation of blackholes which will swallow and digest the whole of
earth.It was also doubted that any mishap can also generate so much heat which
will boil off the oceans.MAHAPRALAYAM.
subhashtewari

-----------------------------------------------



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when we study gita there are so many meanings of aatma.
so many words substituting aatma.
why is it necessary?
how to simplify?

sushil jhunjhunwala

===============================================

Hari Om

Very good question by Sadhak Sushil Jhunjhunwala. Qs like this are hall marks of
Satsanga.

"Atma" is sentient (one who knows self as well as others) ! In Gita the term
'aatma' has been mentioned total 88 times.

10 times to denote Lord Himself in Sagun Sakaar Form (Bhagwan) ; 3 times to
denote His Nirgun Nirakar Form(Paramatma); and 3 times to denote His Sagun
Nirakar Form (Paramatma) ! Upto here there is justification because ATMA is
sentient and so is Paramatma !

Then, the term has been used 31 times in Gita to denote Self / Jeevatma and 8
times to denote human form of Self - Justified as we are direct fragment of
Paramatma and are sentient.

The above takes care of 55 references. Now remains 33 more.

Atma has been referred in 5 verses denoting 'body' (shareer), 14 times it has
been referred to denote Antahkarana (inner senses- mind/intellect/ego/chitta) ,
8 times as mind, 2 times as sensory organs and 4 times as 'getting mixed'
(tadakaar) , becoming one while not being one.

Now these corelations to body/antahkarana etc are primarily because of
'soul/self' getting hugely entangled with body/mind/intelllect etc...just as
water when mixed with milk takes color of milk and secondly because 'atma' also
means 'essence' ! 'Atma' (aatmeeyata) also means very closeness.

Take for example: the term 'hinsatmakah' in 18:27 ..here the violence has taken
complete control of Jeevatma , violence has become essence of Jeevatma !
Violence and Self have become very similar , very close.- hence powerful
expression - Hinsatmakah ! Similarly - Kaamatmanah in 2:43 - here the very aatma
has become hugely entangled with 'desires' - Jeevatma has 'become' desire form !
Jeevatma here is not able to distinguish between self and desire. His acceptance
level with world is so high that he can not even understand as to how a person
do karma without desire being present there. On the other hand , on positive
side, 'prasannatma' in 18:54 is closeness to blissful state of antahkaran and so
on. It always refers Jeevaatma 's some trait, and Jeevatma is sentient. Hence at
all such places also the term is rightly used.

Read Sadhak Sanjeevani and Gita Darpan. You will find detailed and more accurate
reasons. I don't have Sadhak Sanjeevani handy at the time of writing. I am sure
Swamiji must have given reasons somewhere/somehow.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------------------------------------
Dear Sadaks,
Water is called Neeru in Telugu, Paani in Hindi etc. But water is water H2 O.
The uses of water and effects is steam, ice, etc For each effect is called
differently but water is the same.
B.S

------------------------------------------------

The words
atma,
Braham,
Param-atma

are not equal but represent different organizations of similar make.

The Jeev atma is a part of jeev trinity defined as Jad,
chetan and jeev atma.

similar to this is
Braham which has braham trinity defined as virat, antaryami and Hirnayagarbha.

similarily
param braham or real God has own trinity defined as
sat,chit,anand.

Thus all Jeev atmas are in virat of brahaman
and
all hirnayagarbh are in lowest part of parbraham
and
parbaram is wholistic or singularity or oneness.

we can know only one of the hirnayagarbha as jeev
atma has access to only one of the virat ,antaryami and hirnayagarbh unit.

thus Geeta tells us and as do Guru Nanak in Jappu jee sahib that no jeev atma
can know Lord fully untill and unless by own will of Parbraham Lord  one is
shown all the Hirnayagarbha units or multiple bigbangs.

This is the relationship between
jeev atma
and
Braham atma or Hirnayagarbh
and
par braham atma or Pratpar param Braham or simply Lord or Hari where all
hirnayagarbhs turn to one source

  "Dr. Puneet Gupta"

Dear Ones, Namaste!

SushilJi, you recognized many different words as meanings of Atma while studying
Gita, that itself is a great leap forward on the path. Now if one knows Atma,
one knows all that needs to be known.

Atma is Atman in sanskrit, meaning Aham, or I that all use universally. However,
it doesn't refer to a body-mind of a person as is used in common usage. This I
or Atma or Aham is not ego.

It is Sat, or Reality of a person which will be found to be the ONE Reality of
all beings upon inquiry, Sat being Imperishable Ever Existing. Sat is the
experience of ever existing with us waking, sleeping, dreaming. This is the
Knowing that "I am", and is self-evident, meaning it doesn't need any sense
organs, and mind to know it. It is not a mind's experience, but mind express it
for communication purpose.

Swamiji refers to this as "hona or hun, or hai" in Hindi as our humble sadhaka
puts it (as I understand it). This is also Sat-Chit experience that is always
with us, namely you always know "I exist and I am conscious", everything else I
know is through this Consciousness only. This is referred to as Atma in the
context of a person(jeevatma), however, it is the same as Brahman, or Ishwara or
Self, or God, the only One Universal Reality. Atma is not a part of the Brahman
as is conveniently referred to, Brahman is Atman and Atman is Brahman, ever
expanding Self-Aware Universe reflecting through all!

Namaskar..........Pratap Bhatt

-------------------------------------------

Radhey ! Radhey !!

You have to co-relate the terms used by Gita comprehensively with other verses,
immediate context etc. With wonderful and really divine book written by Swamiji
Ramsukhdasji Maharaj- GITA DARPAN- the Gita study has now become very easy and
simple. In Gita Darpan Swamiji has meticulously picked various terms used in
Gita and have stated as to what meaning is to be assigned to a particular term
in the particular verse. It is an amazing experience for a sadhak to understand
and read Gita then. Yardstick: The meaning must be in conformity with all other
verses and no contradiction must surface with other verses or with any other
Scripture of Sanatan Dharma !

Gita reading thus becomes very simple. One is also adviced to read Gita by
surrendering to it. Gita becomes a grand riddle for 'intellectuals' ! The
'bhavas' of Gita are 'unlimited' (anant) !! By using intellect you can't
decipher out Gita.Refer in this regard a recent satsanga on this Forum under the
head KARMA, where an elaborate discussion took place on the meaning of DAIVA
used in Gita verse 18:14. The beauty of Gita is that only one meaning can be
assigned ! All other alternative meanings make the meaning contradictory. Hence
Gita Darpan book is a must for really serious sadhaks, researchers and curious.
Hence instead of getting entangled in dozens of commentaries available on Gita ,
one should concentrate on Sadhak Sanjeevani Treatise written for sadhaks by
Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj and Gita Darpan, which is effectively a Foreword of
Sadhak Sanjeevani ! EKE SADHE SAB SADHE SAB SADHE SAB JAAY !!

Radhey ! Radhey !!

Nisha Chatterji

--------------------------------------------------
Krishna say look Arjuna there is first Pran, then
manas then budhi and beyond all these is jeev atma located in jeev heart or
hridya kosh.
This can be deciphered and got concealed via fifteen yags which is similar to
full moon which become obvious on fifteenth day and again undeciphered after
fifteen days.
Thus in Hindu calenders month start from dark night and ends in dark night.one
part of fifteen days is called shukal paksh and another krishan paksh.
every day is a day to decipher or undecipher the self atma..

"Dr. Puneet Gupta"

------------------------------------------------
Aatmaa ... single or multiple ... simple or complex ...



SIMPLEST THAT EVER IS … THAT JUST IS … Nothing can ever express THAT and yet
THAT verily IS everything that is ever expressed! Nothing can suppress THAT
either and yet THAT remains the unmanifested hidden in everything!! Everything
confluences into THAT as THAT encompasses everything!!!



One fails to fathom such a SIMPLEST ONE since one WANTS to see only many in
their utmost complexity! One has convoluted one's very thought-process to
imagine everything with multitude of attributes, properties and qualities that
"make sense" within! One insists to draw lines and boundaries ONLY TO look at
ITS expressed attributes, to appreciate ITS perceived properties and to feel ITS
experienced qualities. One can't act or think or experience otherwise! One
insists to sense the fragments of the world that is never fractured, to imprint
discrete images of the apparent attributes in one's memory that is one continuum
ever, and to experience isolated incidences in one's consciousness that is ever
connected to all. One cannot believe one's very living otherwise!!



The complexity is created by existential nature of the being. All meanings for
Aatmaa (and anything else as a matter of fact) is generated by individuals …
that is you and me ... for only one reason - to relate oneself to the rest! The
existential cognitive mechanism works only that way - IT HAS TO SPLIT THE
EXISTENCE INTO TWO CATEGORIES - SUBJECT AND OBJECTS - in order to draw lines and
boundaries in existence as action, thought and experience; in order to
discretize each into their own multiplicity ... in order to live. THE UNITY
remains as such. Nothing can be different irrespective of the way anything is
conceived by anyone. The subject remains in all the objects and all the objects
in the subject as ever. They remain as inseparable as ever. That is why one can
be confident about any perceived idea - a fraction of the whole captured as an
image in one's perception - ONLY IN A SUPERFICIAL SENSE! As soon as one
entertains serious introspection within regarding the authority and authenticity
of the perceived notions, the lines and boundaries start becoming hazy and start
slipping away. The once-confident cognizer looses sense in the once-sensible
idea that was conceived!! All lines and boundaries one has drawn within one's
perception are as permanent as the lines drawn in space.



IndriyaaNaam prithagbhavam udayaastamayou cha yat |



The sensed permanency in such perceived division is only through one's memorial
insistence. One has to be bound to a superficial appreciation to retain
multiplicity in existence. The existence is as ever (Sat, The Truth). The
perceived multiplicity is as never (Asat, lie). One relieving fact in the lie is
that the very lie ought to remain within The Truth as ever ... and hence ought
to be TRUE as well. In fact, that is the only potential way out as well as in to
appreciate the same universal reality in the subject as well as the objects ...
there is no other way ... Evam tvayi naaanyathe'to'sti ...



Compassionate that The Gita is, IT caters to seekers from all walks of life.
While relating the BASIC INTEGRAL PRINCIPLE to the relative existential mosaic
of faiths and beliefs, variant meanings may appear. But, if you are sincere, IT
takes you to the center radially sooner than you catch up with IT; IT never
digresses tangentially in teaching the fellow who seeks The Truth. One who
insists to seek lies will have no choice but to see the lies anywhere and
everywhere as none can ever change one's vision against one's insistence!!!



Knowing clearly the uncertainty of the images one perceives from around and the
falsity of the images one gathers from within, one would not chase the
complexity in multiplicity anymore ...



Prithagutpadyamaanaanaam mattvaa dheero na shochati ||



My dear friend, The Gita as well as its basis (Upanishads) never try to confuse
anyone with complex multiplicity. They all propound THE ONE AND THE ONLY
SIMPLEST TRUTH of MERE BEING in all. They may relate to complex multitude of
existential perceived cases to start with so that the seeker can relate oneself
and join the path of awareness within. They all univocally propound - YOU START
YOUR SCRUTINY WITH ANYTHING IN PHYSICAL OR PERCEIVED WORLDS, YOU OUGHT TO SETTLE
WITH THE UNIQUE TRUTH THAT EVER IS ...



Respects.



Naga Nrayana.

----------------------------------------

If "VASUDEV: SARVAM" is NOT FALSE, what you or anyone calls Aatmaa IS
PARAMAATMAA so Aatmaa has as many attributes as are possessed by PARAMAATMAA and
if one gets bewildered by these two names, he or she proves Gita verse 19 of
chapter 7 completely FALSE.
Humbly,
Saadhaka

---------------------------------------------
The words God, Atma, self and so on do not refer to anything which mind can
conceive of. β€˜You and God’ or β€˜you and Atma’, this bifurcation is made
by thought to satisfy itself. Seeing this clearly takes you to the origin of
thought. You realize yourself as unique operating entity; you may call yourself
God, self or Atma.

Atma is not a finding by the brain. It is mutation in the brain itself.

Y V Chawla

--------------------------------------------------------

Same word can be and has to be used to mean more than one thing. The meaning
depends on the context. It is common in human languages. When the context is
properly understood, no confusion arises. In fact using the same word to mean
several things is a test for the reader. If the reader is following the context
properly, ther eis no confusion.
I am sure the members have seen the movie TriSool with amitabh bacchan and
Sanjeev kumar. there is one scene in it when Sanjeev Kumar says "Ek minute ke
liye main samjhaa apni hi khoon hai" Apni hi khoon is used literally here; but
when taken idiomatically it means that SKumar thought for a moment that AB is
his son. Such use of the same word in various contexts adds spice to writing or
narration. particularly refer to sloka 6.5,6 of Gita.
krishna

---------------------------------------------------------

Dear All,
Aatma is sum total of your thoughts, expectations, hopes, experiences,
imaginations, memories actions reactions in your thought world till now.
A.K.Mukhi

-----------------------------------------------------------

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http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org (hindi)
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===============================================

Subject: Protest against Govt's proposal to export meat

  Main Point: Avbl.: Report of the Govt. that proposes lifting of ban on beef
export

  Category of Topic: Animal Welfare

  Message: 16th February, 2012 Another Alarm call with the highest decibel of
sound !!!

Dear Friends, We had drawn your attention with an alarm call against the
proposals of 10th Five Year Plan by our communication dated 14th July, 2001
regarding the proposal of the Government to set up approx. 5000 new slaughter
houses in the country. As a result of sustained year long opposition to this
move led by Viniyog Parivar, the Government was forced to drop the proposal.
This is another Alarm call in that series. The Planning Commission is now in the
process of formulating the 12th Five Year Plan and various Ministries have
appointed working groups to formulate proposals. These Ministries have also
appointed sub-groups to make recommendations on particular issues so that the
same may be considered while formulating the plan. One such working group has
been appointed in the Animal Husbandry and Dairying Department of Agriculture
Ministry and there is a sub-group on meat and abattoirs sector. This sub-group
has already prepared its recommendation a copy of which is enclosed, You would
be horrified to read the draft report which recommends an aggressive thrust to
increase slaughter rate, modernisation of existing slaughter houses, setting up
more and more mechanised slaughter houses, removal of the impediments in the
export of meat and recommends various steps in those directions. One additional
and most horrifying feature is the recommendation for removal of ban on beef
export. Beef export is banned in the import-export policy for the last 63 years
since independence. Emboldened by the dying opposition to meat export (buffalo
meat, sheep and goat mutton and poultry meat) the Government is moving forward
to permit beef export. This will be the final nail in the coffin of the Indian
agriculture and animal husbandry and will compromise food security of the
country irreversibly. No wonder the report moves on these lines, considering the
fact that Dr. S.K. Ranjan, Director, Hind Agro Industries Ltd. is nominated on
the sub-group as Convener. Dr. S.K. Ranjan's Company is one of the largest meat
exporters from the country. The propriety of nominating people who have vested
interests in the issue itself is challengable. In addition, another member of
the sub-group is Dr. N. Kondaiah, a known-protagonist of meat export who has
been on the sub-group for the last three plans. In earlier Plans there were
other non-official members of the sub-group co-opted from various NGOs or other
activists. For the 12th Plan this has been done away with. It is a ploy ..2 of
the Government to do what it wants without facing any opposition on the subject
and without much publicity in the public fora. The whole report goes against the
campaign to ban meat export from the country and this has to be resisted lest it
becomes part of the approach paper of the 12th Five Year Plan and later on the
plan itself. Meat export has already dealt a death blow to the economy of the
nation to satiate the greed of a handful few with the tacit support, patronage
and encouragement of the Government. Now with the move to remove ban on beef
export there will be a final fatal blow. All of us have to resist this approach
tooth and nail and force the Government to drop its plans in the field of meat
export.

We urge you to do whatever you can to achieve this object.

We request you to send your strongest protest to :

1) The Dy. Chairman, Planning Commission, Yojana Bhavan, Sansad Marg, New Delhi
- 110 001. E-mail: plancom@...

2) Prof. Abhijeet Sen, Member (Agriculture), Planning Commission, Yojana Bhavan,
Sansad Marg, New Delhi-110 001. Email: abhijit.sen@...

3) Shri Anand Sharma Hon'ble Minister of Commerce, 45, Udyog Bhavan, New Delhi -
110 011. Email : anandsharma@...

4) Shri Sharad Pawar, Hon'ble Minister of Agriculture, 120, Krishi Bhavan, New
Delhi-110 011. Email : sharadpawar.sp@...

Please send a copy of your protest letter to Viniyog Parivar
(info@...  )so that the same may be used in case litigation on
the matter is needed.

- VINIYOG PARIVAR TRUST N,B. A copy of the title page of the report, Index page
of the report and a copy of the relevant chapter is also attached. The full
report can be accessed on the website of Planning Commission.
  Additional Information 1: Report of the Govt.
  Name: Viniyog Parivar Trust
  Organisation: Viniyog Parivar Trust
  Location: Mumbai


==============================================
Dear SHRI SHARAD PAWAR Sir,

I the undersigned am writing you this request letter to stop the unconditional
act done on cows.

Cow is an innocent and precious animal. It has many qualities that even cow dung
is useful to us. In some part of our country cow is worshiped. There was a
restriction of exporting the flesh of the cow from 63 years. So this restriction
should not be removed and kept as it is. If the flesh of cow is exported then
like there is extinction of tiger and lion similarly there will be extinction of
cow and we are the once who are going to suffer.

I would assure that you will look over this matter as soon as possible.


Hiren Shah


Dear MONTEKSIHA AHALUWALIA sir,

Like now we are saving lions & tigers, we should also save cow. We should not
kill cow and export its flesh. If cow will become extinct we will suffer and
this can give rise to artificial dairy products.

I would assure that you will look over this matter as soon as possible.


Hiren.H.Shah

Mumbai.


==============================================
For All previous postings on this topic please visit -

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/4659

Respected Sadhaks of this Enlightened group ,,

I am a private sector professional aged 52 , working in Surat , Gujarat .
I read all the posts here regularly and have gained a lot from the messages
posted by all the wise souls here .
I stay alone here and am away from 730 AM to 730 pm at work .
Rest of the time I read various spiritual books .
I feel the need of a living Guru who can guide me in my spiritual progress .
Can this group please help me .

Respectful Pranaams ,

Hemant H Jadhav

---------------------------------------
Shree Hari Ram Ram

Namasteji, Along with all your other spiritual books, you may also spend some
time listening to lectures and question and answers, and also reading from the
following links pertaining to GURU.

Let us know if some points are not clear to you and you need clarification.

At your service,
Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

------------------------------------------

shree hari ram ram

PLEASE LISTEN TO FEW RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS BY SWAMIJI WHEN ASKED ABOUT A GURU :
http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net/Audio/Audio-QA-Guru-Saint.htm

Here are some very good links related to Guru / Sat Guru

KYA GURU BINA MUKTI NAHIN in HINDI

http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijibooks/pustak/pustak1/html/kya%20guru%20b\
ina%20mukti%20nahi/main.html

"Is Salvation Not Possible without a Guru?" You may view a few of the chapters
at:

http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net/ebooks.html

Sadhak message links on Guru are at :

What is a True Spiritual Guide like?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1161

Gita's View on Guru - Part I & II
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1129
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1130

Who is the Real Guru?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/2597
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/2598

Is it Essential for a Guru to be a Self Realized Soul ?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1926

On Guru Disciple Relationship
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1903

On Guru - Sishya
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1105

Is it not Essential to Engage in Guru Disciple Relationship ?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1819

Worship of Guru - Part 1
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1738

Worship of Guru - Part 2
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1739

On Having Lost Faith in a Guru
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/2529

God is Guru of this Universe
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1661

Sri Krishna is the Guru and Gita is the Mantra
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/2449

Qualities of a True Spiritual Guide or Guru
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1659

Real Guru is your discrimination
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1547

There is no Sin in letting go of false Guru
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1484

Who can be considered a Guru?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1301

================================================

Gita Talk discussion links related to GURU are at:

How to recognize a Satguru
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/4512

Guru Related Questions
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/4476

Please Help - My huge Dilemma about a Guru - as I am in association of a Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/3591

Can a Woman Make Someone a Guru?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/2912

Can There Be No Liberation Without a Guru ?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/1844

Guru Worship related
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/1121



===============================================

Do you need a spiritual friend or a spiritual guru?

I have need of spiritual friends and companionship. But after reading Swami
Ramsukhdasji books, the formal guru is not required anymore.

At His feet in service,
G B

-----------------------------------------
As learnt from Swameejee :
Do not regard the mind and intellect as yours.  The moment this happens, at that
very same moment,  who ever you come together with, that you do not know, but is
that and that alone.

IN HINDI
Man aur Buddhi ko apanee mat maano. jis kshan aisaa huaa, usee kshanase jisase
judanaa huaa, use jaanataa to naheen par vahee hai aur vahee hai.
Humbly,
Saadhaka

------------------------------------------
Dear Ones, Namaste!

HemantJi, Already Moderators have suggested Swamiji's books and talks on Guru
for your help!

As long as there remains a strong need for a living Guru, you will end up
finding one.
However, it is not necessary to go looking for one. I would rather continue
seeking truth by becoming a sincere and honest disciple to deserve a Guru.
Longing for the Truth will bring you all that you need at your doorstep or take
you to the door where you will find it. I can tell this from my experience!
For a sincere sadhak, universe will make sure he gets what he needs.

No one is Guru for everyone. Disciple-Guru relationship is born upon prolong
Satsangs in which sadhak feels his questions are answered and as a result a
great deal of reverence is born for such a being naturally! All of a sudden
sadhak finds a Guru in front of him, that is all! Guru never calls himself a
Guru, for he knows it is God speaking through him for the benefit of that
Sadhak.

Living Guru can be of great help because not only he/she teaches with words, but
with his presence, way of living,  body gestures, and with his silence! Sadhak
has to spend a great deal of time in his presence when that happens!

Keep a flame burning in your heart for Truth, don't extinguish it by going
around looking for Guru!
Actually when you look for Spiritual help, it is Truth itself stirring in you to
shake off ignorance!

Namaskar....... Pratap Bhatt

--------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,
Guru gives Knowledge (Athuma Gyan). By interrogation and discussion only a sadak
becomes perfection can be seen in various scripts. In that manner, what ever
possible you may question to quickly understand Sanatha Dharm.
B.S

-----------------------------------------------
Dear All,
                              Namaskar!
For getting a living spiritual Sat Guru the most important is
the cent percent urge to achieve a particular stage in the path
of enlightenment. The mother nature is so loving and sympathetic
that Sat Guru set his journey to reach the deserving Shesh to
quench his thirst of getting true Sat Guru for the purpose he has
cent percent urge to get!!!

Jai Sri Krishna!!

Kuldeep Kaul
-------------------------------------------------

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http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org (hindi)
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Hari Om,
  I am reading the thoughts expressed by sadhakas here for sometime.I am a 55
years old lady, living alone and working for small children.
I have read Gita, Upanisad and many spiritual books, written articles on
positive thinking on world magazines, devoted myself in service for mankind.But
amidst all this I feel always lonely and seek love from others.Because of my
ethical approach to life I have not been accepted by people in my family as it
goes against their way of functioning in a easy give and take principle.I do not
compromise on truth.But I need love from those whom I have worked for or living
with like my maternal family members, my husband , my community whom I have
served for years.But it is only give and give situation for me which drains my
energy after sometime and I feel poor and empty from inside.I cannot accept this
kind of life for myself.Is it wrong to seek love and unconditional acceptance
from husband and family members to remain happy in life ?how I shall get love
from my own  people to live my life.Arjuna had also this dilema in Mahabharata,
but got the guidance from Krishna.No doubt he won the war, but lost his sons and
his last life was not full of happiness. We ordinary human being who are trying
to live a good and happy life how to achieve that in places where we do not get
to join a satsang and written words do not inspire ! Please help.

sister


-------------------------------------------------

Related Link:
http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net (english)
http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org (hindi)
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Hari Om,
I am reading the thoughts expressed by sadhakas here for sometime.I am a 55
years old lady, living alone and working for small children.
I have read Gita, Upanisad and many spiritual books, written articles on
positive thinking on world magazines, devoted myself in service for mankind.But
amidst all this I feel always lonely and seek love from others.Because of my
ethical approach to life I have not been accepted by people in my family as it
goes against their way of functioning in a easy give and take principle.I do not
compromise on truth.But I need love from those whom I have worked for or living
with like my maternal family members, my husband , my community whom I have
served for years.But it is only give and give situation for me which drains my
energy after sometime and I feel poor and empty from inside.I cannot accept this
kind of life for myself.Is it wrong to seek love and unconditional acceptance
from husband and family members to remain happy in life ?how I shall get love
from my own people to live my life.Arjuna had also this dilema in Mahabharata,
but got the guidance from Krishna.No doubt he won the war, but lost his sons and
his last life was not full of happiness. We ordinary human being who are trying
to live a good and happy life how to achieve that in places where we do not get
to join a satsang and written words do not inspire ! Please help.

sister


-------------------------------------------------

In Nature there is a Law : Whatever you give, you receive. Whatever you don't
give, you won't receive. [It is not necessary that you will receive from the
person whom you give, that is why it is said that we receive from God.]
You or anyone is NO exception to this Law of Nature.
Humbly,
Saadhaka

-----------------------------------------------

It is quite difficult to answer this question without knowing your exact
situation.

Yes.. You need love. Accept that Krishna (God) loves you and you love Krishna.
People around you are Krishna's manifestations. Love them and accept love from
them. If people around you don't give you love, then be happy as you know that
the Supreme Lord loves you.

Yes.. You need happiness. Your self is beyond matter and is always happy. Accept
that your self is always happy. If you experience suffering or difficult
circumstances in your life, then don't sweat about them. Let go of external
circumstance (both happiness and unhappiness). Don't hold on to them as you know
that self is always happy and these circumstances are fleeting in nature.
External unhappiness and happiness both will come and go. You don't need to deny
external happiness. Be externally happy but don't attach importance to it.
Attach importance to your atma (self) which is eternal, full of knowledge and
happiness.

Yes.. You need companionship and don't need loneliness. First accept that
Krishna is always with you and He will always remain with you. So, you are not
lonely. Seek companionship of your husbands, kids and other family members
knowing that you are always with Krishna. Enjoy with them. Be happy with them
and give them happiness. See them as manifestation of Krishna and be happy in
their companionship.

Yes.. sometimes family and community drains our energy. But if you see that you
are serving Krishna within them, then they won't drain your energy. Now, you are
not working for them but for Krishna. At least, this attitude will drain lesser
energy. More you will apply it, more happier you will become.

It is our nature to seek love and unconditional acceptance from husband and
family members to remain happy in life. You cannot change your nature. There is
one person who surely gives you this. It is Krishna (God). Krishna
unconditionally loves you. So, accept that unconditional love. After this
acceptance, be happy with what you get. If your family members love you
unconditionally, then it is great. If they don't, accept it. You can't change
them. If you accept unconditional love of Krishna, I hope you will get from
others too. At least you won't be disturbed if you don't get it from others.

>>  how to achieve that in places where we do not get to join a satsang and
written words do not inspire !

I read Swamiji's book Sadhan-Sudha-Sindhu. It is on the web. Whenever I have
time, I read this book on my phone. Since I read it on my phone, no one even
notices and I end up reading a lot. I might have even read some chapters more
than dozen times.

Before reading this book, I have attended many satsangs (more than 1000s). I
used to attend satsang twice a day and even lived in temple. But those things
did not advance me much. Reading this book is even better than those satsangs.
It goes to the heart and the teachings of Gita appear so simple and obvious.

At His feet in service,
G B

--------------------------------------------------

We all have to practice unconditional love, unconditional service, unconditional
acceptance of others/situations....to experience true happiness, peace,
love..... Words have power to transform if understood in the right context...

Conditions restrict our happiness or change it into unhappiness...  Conditions
are nothing but strong desires expecting people to behave / situations to occur
in a certain way....  Try doing away with all conditions...to feel fulfilled,
feel the joy of service to others, feel the joy of giving.....world may change
entirely....best wishes

Sushil Jain

---------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Dear Sister, it is understandable dilemma for those in your situation.

You asked,"Is it wrong to seek love and unconditional acceptance from husband
and family members to remain happy in life ?"

Please know that happiness that depends on anything, either material things or
acceptance, or love from another, be that spouse, children, parents, friends, is
not happiness. It is a short term gratification of senses and mind, even when
obtained through such seeking. You already are experiencing emptiness, energy
drained out of you, etc.,  which is the proof of this dependency.
Problem is the dependency itself robbing you of freedom! It is precisely because
Happiness(Love) is not "yours" or "mine", it is Impersonal, not limited, and not
caused by a thing. Seeking gets you limited, giving up seeking gets total
freedom!

Just give up any such dependency in your understanding, and see what happens!
You will discover a great freedom from all seeking in a flash of understanding
that "personal seeker" is the problem.
We want to be loved because we don't love. If we do love unconditionally then we
cannot ask to be loved in return(it is condition). Please see this clearly. Be
one with your aches, pains and emptiness in total surrender! The more we fight
with such emotions more will be their power over us.

Besides, you are doing service to humanity, writing on positive thinking in
magazines, sticking to truth at all cost, right? These acts are rewards in
themselves, so, don't use them as means to bring Love and Happiness. Please
discover within that Love is the Whole, not a result of doing and expecting.

When you discover "me/mine", as the root cause of all dependencies arising out
of feeling lack within, you put an end to all seeking"!

Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt

-------------------------------------------------
By default heart is the well with spring of love. Love springs like swyambhu and
originate on its own. All hearts have that swayambhu called Love which only
originate to give. But then there are rocks and weeds covering this well unless
kept clean. These rocks and weeds are kaam, krodh, lobh, moh, raag, dwesh and
ahamkaar as mentioned in geeta.
One's effort or karma should be to work on keeping the well of heart clean, so
as the spring of love is unclogged and it comes out to give and only give.
Though it sounds easy, but its tough to practice.

One way to succeed on this cleansing exercise is to work for higher goals, to
work for god (what else can be highest goal then god itself), the goal of being
able to see that swayambhu always in that cleaned up well. Thats also one
definition of nishkaam karma.

While we do any act lets watch that the objective/goal remains to be clearly
able to see & feel that swayambhu called Love. Please don't expect the well to
get cleaned up overnight as this is not a magical pill. The skill of speaking a
language helps for 30 years of career. The skill of people management helps
probably 70 years. But Nishkaam karma is the skill, the art of living to be
learnt for this birth and beyond.

regds,
rakesh

------------------------------------------

Dear Sister

My sincere appreciation for the good work you are doing for so long !!

God loves you for the good work you are doing and thats precisely why HE has
made you post your feelings here .
I have no doubt at all that the enlightened wise souls in this group will help
you transform into a very Happy Content cheerful and enthusiastic person who
will continue to do the noble service that you are doing .
I am receiving a lot of valuable guidance for my post here regarding finding a
Guru .

May I offer my humble thinking on this matter ??

Everyone and everything is the Lord . Believe firmly in this !! Say this to
yourself a 100 times a day for a 100 days or as long as needed to be carved like
a rock in your consciousness .
Then you will see that you are serving the Lord in all the good work you do !!

We need to be free of expectations and desires to be Happy and content .thats
another aspect you may consider . It frees us from the unpredictable behaviour
of others and never will we feel dissapointed .

So I request you dear sister to look upon God and God alone on whom to make all
your demands and expect nothing from any other perishable relationship of this
world .

May the wise and much respected souls here bring God's voice to you through this
group .
I wish you inner peace ,bliss and contentment .

Your brother ,

Hemant Jadhav
------------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

Why do you seek reciprocation/acknowledgment/ appreciation / fame (called 'love'
by you ) from those who you 'served' ? 'Service' means no expectations ! If you
seek love in return, how is it 'service' ? It is a trade/business then. You
praise me/notice me/acknowledge me/ appreciate me , and I do service to you
....this is business not service. This tendency/desire for 'love' is converting
a 'Rupee' into a 'chavanni' (25 paisa) ! In spiritual language it is seeking
peanuts...'Chavanni chhap desire' !!!

There was one 'yogi' (concentrating mind/body) ! He had amazing power of sitting
motionless for months. He once went to King and told him about his power to
concentrate. Kind got interested . Yogi said , I am sitting motionless here, you
can build a house upon me leaving only air space and I will remain motionless
till the construction is over. King agreed and asked him as to what he will take
for showing this power ! Yogi replied: ' Sir Ghoda Loonga, Ghoda' ( Sir I will
take one horse in reward) !!!

Seeking petty appreciation is akin to that 'Ghoda loonga' , Divine Sister. Leave
this desire ! Throw it away...MUJHE TUM SE KUCHH BHI NA CHAHIYE...!

Actually it is not 'giving' and 'giving' which is draining energy from you (as
claimed by you) , it is 'not being able to take' which is draining you. It is a
law: If you desire anything, you yourself have created obstacles into
fulfillment of the same. The 'poverty/emptiness' felt by you is due to that
desire ...and that desire only. Desire as a law creates 'deficiency' as soon as
it perks up/arises. Only that is deficient/poor/empty/beggar , who desires. If
you don't desire, where is deficiency/poverty/ emptiness ? THINK : What
difference will it make if somebody praises you or not praise you ? Horse is too
little a reward for that Yogi who can reach Paramatma if desire for horse goes.

There is one sitting at top called Paramatma...is He not watching you ? Focus on
Him..rather than on worldly people. If worldly people praise you, consider that
to be an insult. Get sad then, because it is then that your whole Rupee gets
exchanged for a petty 'chavanni' !!

Read also recent deliberations on this Divine Forum under a similar Q raised by
another Divine Sister like you...Saritaji !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

-------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadak,
Raga & Deuvesa (Likes and dislikes) are fruits of our past Karma. So it may be
necessary to know what that does. What you give and give is that which you took
and took. This earth is literally jail for Athuma. May be it God, if HE comes
here, the Karma role never leaves. You have family and have to perform Karma-
failing you will have to take another to complete. Just keep saying this Sloka
once a day, things will change as you said Arjuna seeked Sri Krishna so also you
can seek Sri Krishna.
NARAYANAL BHRAMA JAYATHE,
NARAYANAL RUDRO JAYATHE,
NARAYANAL INDRO JAYATHE,
NARAYANAL PRAJAPATHI JAYATHE,
NARAYANAL PRAVARTHANTHE,
NARAYANE PRELEEYATHE,
ETHA DRIDVETHA SRIRO DIYATHE.
If you need to pronounce correctly- kindly reply I shall mail the video of that
sloka.
B.S

-----------------------------------------------
Hari OM sister,
Even Bhakta Pralhad was not accepted by his father because he was a devotee of
God. So, it is probably not correct to seel love. Rather, one needs to give love
to all who accepts and not hate anyone, even the foes. Mere words and satsang
will not help. If you are so destined, you will change the course of your
thinking and stop worrying about not getting love and fair treatment from those
you loved, lived with and cared for. You will have a change of attitude and
perspective to one one of loving others without expectation of anything in
return. If one considers everyone and everything
as God's various forms and intensely love and submit to that thought and God,
all other negative thoughts of not being accepted and not being loved will go
away. Have trust in God and submit all your pains and suferings to his feet.
After all it is He who has provided for all your sufferings /disappointments.
Return all these to Him as your offerings and do not keep them in your heart and
mind. It is extremely difficult but that is the only way to love God and all his
forms. Just pray to God to give you the strength to ignore all non-acceptance,
non-recognition, neglect and that are inflicted on you by others. Do not
complain. Do not remember them. Forgive everyone all the time. Realise that you
are the Atman and no one can hurt you by non-acceptance, non-recognition or
neglect. Love is not for seeking
and getting: love is for giving away. As one gives love away, more love fills in
the heart. Give up the ego that you need to be loved and cared for, give up the
ego that gets hurt.
Basudeb Sen

-----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sister
Thank you for sending this question. It is amazing that your message could have
been completely mine as well except for writing in world magazines and age of
course. I am wory of writing articles. Thanks to these satsangas I have stopped
seeking acceptance from individuals around me. If they do it is devine grace.
Many a time we women do not know what our original nature and needs are. It need
not be the same as men or need not be subservient and never against. At the best
it should be complementary. Not knowing our nature, it is natural to get lost.
Saving grace is that we are able to articulate our doubts and seek help.
Examples will not give answers, but they definitely guide. Krishnaa(Draupadi)
was a princess herself, blessed with eternal beauty, had five great men for
husbands, Krishna for a brother and hugely experienced Pritha(Kunti) with her to
name a few. Yet she had to go through worst possible difficulties.  Vasudhaiva
Kutumbakam thought helps me swim. As they say I may be alone but not lonely.
Watching/just looking at all the five senses as I go through my day has been
extremely helpful along with aasanas and pranayama.
Thank you
Veena

---------------------------------------------------
Reply to the sister who has made a appeal for guidance

To follow the right path first you must cut off all contact with those of your
relatives who do not love or respect you. Go to a ashram or old age home & work
there in return for being allowed to stay there. I promise if you follow this
you will find respect for the work you will be doing & also loving friends. Do
not tell your relatives where you are living otherwise they will come & trouble
you. Learn & do pranayam & also teach the others. This pranayam done 20 times in
the morning will show the right way
  the meaning of pranayam is "om" but simply repeating the word om is not enough.
The breathing
Will lead you to the highest happiness
Best wishes
balbir singh

-------------------------------------------------------

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Shri Hari
Ram Ram

Acceptace of truth that God is mine & I am God's (Bhagwat Gita 15.7) is possible
but very difficult.

By chanting the name of God it is easy to accept the truth.

I have to chant the name of God so no alternative for God realisation/peace of
mind. No other can help,I have to chant the name of God in the age of Kaliyug.

Is my understanding right.
Thanks & Regards

Pawan Kumar Singhal


--------------------------------------------

FOLLOW UP QUESTION

So after reading above posts, i have one doubt remaining....

How should I observe my relationship with God....should I see it in sense of
worldly relations like I am His son or I am His lover or in any type....Because
while doing so, am I not committing the mistake of seeing myself still as a body
and not as "I am only God's" ?
Rishabh Didwania

---------------------------------------------

Shree Hari Ram Ram

FROM MANAS MEIN NAAM VANDAN by Swami Ramsukhdasji

Even if "kasturi" (the musk of a deer), is made to promise to not spread it's
fragrance, then will she be able to stop?   The scent will surely spread. 
Similarly, if someone even silently does "bhajan" and if no one comes to know, 
then too Maharaj,  it will be revealed.  It's unique and extra-ordinary
qualities will be seen.   It will have an effect on the people;  because God's
name is so very transcendental, so extra-ordinary,  that not just this world,
but the world beyond will also be benefited.  A child from an ordinary household
who was not regarded as anyone special previously, can become an ascetic.  And
further, if he becomes immersed in "bhajan" worship, adoration of God then he
can become a great saint,  a great soul.  Many miraculous things can happen
through him.  What is the point here?   This is the glories of the divine name
of the Lord.

Meera Das,  Ram Ram

==============================================

By talking about God, Enlightenment, liberation and so on, one is seeking a way
out of pain and uncertainty of normal life. Unless one absorbs pain and
uncertainty "as it is", there is no chance of finding the "True".
You can not run away from yourself. The illusion gives the impression as if
comforting ideas or addition to securities will undo pain and uncertainty.
God does not mean that things will be alright in future. God means whatever is
there is Order. Every movement is from order to order and not from disorder to
order. Instantly, you feel one with yourself, one with whole existence. Relaxed
and conscious action emerges. Now ANY action in ANY direction is creation.
Y V Chawla

---------------------------------------------------

Of recent I have been doing Naam Japa.  I read in Jivan Upyogi pravachan an
excellent book that with naam japa, sense pleasures and  sins are wiped out,
agitation of mind is removed, and one gains immense peace. Also, "bhajan"
increases, and the impossible becomes possible.

The books says that when worries come to mind, for half hour simply chant God's
name, and all worries will disappear. With Naam Japa, you become one with the
Name.  hope this helps.

Sarita

------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhaks,



After working for 51 yrs I have called it a day.  God has directed me to devote
rest of my life for a social cause.  He has directed me to convey His message
that He has given more than required resources for every body to live a
Prosperous, Peaceful and Happy life.  All the sufferings, poverty and violence
in the world are man-made.

You can search for my blog
Mahendra Kumar Agarwal

------------------------------------------
Acceptance and its blind spot …



Acceptance is like the steering that guides the vehicle toward intended
destination. It is the greatest tool of all for realization. No doubt about
that. It takes the body-mind cluster toward the intended destination without
failure. Yet … it has a blind spot of its own … it is guided or driven by
another fellow within - the individual, the ego! Steering remains blind until
the driver remains blind!! Therefore, it is of paramount importance that the
driver is given proper vision to steer the steering properly enabling oneself to
move the associated body-mind cluster toward the destination.



One needs to practice the steering lessons with acute observation and astute
determination to gain good vision. But, practice in itself is crippled unable to
connect the visionary to the vision ahead. For example, one needs to understand
what exactly Ahimsa means to practice whatever enable that. Mere practice
induces kind of insistence in the belief perceived. A person advocating Ahimsa
turns into fight in order to thwart any opposition! That is the weakness of
practiced Acceptance - a bias is created toward the very belief! The bias always
retains a potential to become FANATISM given an intensifying environment!!



But, one ought to keep it in mind that practice remains vital in seeking Truth
since one is capable of understanding ONLY perceived realities in life! One has
practiced to believe what is revealed within the cognitive system. Perceived
reality alone can be the guiding lamp in the pursuit TO START WITH. Therefore,
perpetual education to the perceiver to be cognizant of the boundaries of the
very perception remains vital not to idolize the perceived realities in the
process! Idolization would halt the very pursuit in its very epicenter!! For
example, Ahimsa becomes an IDOL while it still remains an invalidated notion
within!!!



What is missing in practiced acceptance is a cultivation within. One needs to
appreciate the values observed and practiced with absolute transparency within.
Appreciation without any bias is CULTIVATION! Acutely subtle awareness is
essential here - THERE CANNOT BE ANY BIAS EVEN TOWARD THE VERY PRACTICE THAT
ENABLED IT!!



True acceptance of anything is NOT TO SEE ANY TRACE OF ITS POTENTIAL OPPOSITE.
Without one's multi-polar nemesis around, how can that exist anymore?!
Therefore, true acceptance of anything would instantly retire the very thing
that was accepted into THE ABSOLUTE that ever IS. For example, true acceptance
of Ahimsa is to realize the impossibility of its nemesis Himsa altogether.
Ahimsa ought to dismiss itself with such a true acceptance. If insistence on
Ahimsa remains, it means a hint of Himsa is retained within! Same way, true
Bhakti is an absolute acceptance of THE ABSOLUTE! How can it retain itself as
anything then?! Bhakti ought to dissolve into the very ABSOLUTE as ever!! If
Bhakti is insisted upon, The Bhagavaan is forced to be an object of a pursuit!!!
That is cultivation ... to let the perceived acceptance percolate within into
one's very existence ... so much that the very acceptance dissolves within ...
as ever ...



Therefore, true acceptance is one wherein it is no more needed!!!



Respects.



Naga Narayana.

--------------------------------------------


Sadhak Rishabh Didwaniajee!
Every relationship (son, father, mother, friend, sakha, daas etc) that arises
(comes in to being) will vanish when physical body ends.
Self that is eternally God's (before the body is born, during the body exists
and after the body perishes) remains God's, needing no relationship.
Accept with firm determination,"I am God's ONLY and ONLY God's mine" [as
directed by Swameejee) and see that IT IS and all other relationships with God
change with time.
Humbly,
Saadhaka

-----------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
Welcome ManjulaJi! Nice to see your short and sweet response after long time!

This is response to Follow up question by RishabhJi.

Somehow I feel strongly that if the meaning of God is understood through our
experience, using God given Intelligence, Trust in Scriptural/Swamiji's words,
interest, then you will know the true meaning of "God is mine and I am God's"!
Relationships are problem only if one wants to possess, dominate, depend, use
someone for one's own interests! So, even such relations as son, lover, friend,
may be used to glorify one's ego.
In the absence of ego, all relations are Divine! We can Love God only through
some such relationship, and above all by serving such relationships! One cannot
relate to God with body identification, if you relate to God sincerely, then
identification drops off!

In this way worldliness is replaced by Godliness!

You are fine if you can be honest about it!
All bodies are His body! When you hear or read "I am not the body", it means I
am not this body only, I am either all bodies, or no body, both are fine! No one
body can survive on its own, and bodies never tell us they are separate! When
you understand "God is mine" you are acknowledging the demise of ego, you are
never limiting God to be "yours" alone! How can you?

Namaskar...Pratap Bhatt

------------------------------------------------
Hari Om

Re: Follow up Question

Your desire 'to observe' the relationship as son or friend etc itself is example
of the acceptance: 'I am body' ! You need not go that deep. In Bhakti Yoga-
there is no need to begin with ' I am not body'. A bhakta considers ultimately
that everything is belonging to His God and sees his God everywhere. Hence you
need not worry too much on this aspect. Just consider you to be belonging to Him
rather than to the world. BELIEVE this firmly, it will set into you because it
is truth. In case of Bhakti Yoga, it is God's responsibility to arrange for
whatever is needed by a Bhakta. You simply establish a relationship with Him, an
exclusive relationship.

Actually in Bhakti, sadhak 'CHANGES' his (her) AHAM. He doesnot purify (karma
yoga) or eliminate (Jnana yoga)
Aham...He changes from I am of the world to I am God's ! In that change , both
'me' (ahankar) and 'mine' (mamta) get addressed while in Karma Yoga 'mine' gets
purified (removal of bhoktahood) and in Jnana yoga 'me' gets eliminated. But in
Bhakti, both undergo a change. There it becomes duty of God to make you realise-
I am not body.

Concentrate more on 'Doosaro Na Koi' ...'Mere to Girdhar Gopal' has to be
exclusive ...no other should be yours...Doosaro Na Koi !!!

Hence you can fearlessly consider Him to be your father/friend/lover..anything
though God loves FRIENDSHIP the most. In Ramayana Lord made 3 friends- Nishadraj
Guha (Siddha); Vibheesan (Sadhak) and Sugreeva (Bhogi/worldly) ! Lord Krishna
also made Arjuna as His friend.

Change of aham is instant. There is no need for you to set yardsticks/try to
know as to whether you have actually become or not or what aresymptoms thereof.
Just have child like belief. When we can't leave 'asat' (false) even easily, how
truth will leave us?

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
------------------------------------------------
Dear Sadaks,

Why do we chant? 1) Fear of death and to get mukthi. 2) Because sastras says
Namasankeethan is Bakthi in Kaliyug and liberation. 3) For nis Kama Prema
Bakthi.(Pure Love towards God not thinking of anything in return). From Chanting
IF we develop love towards God -1, next we chant more frequently without seeing
who is observing-2, then we continue chanting irrespective of sufferings or
problems-3. But chanting-1 itself leads to emancipation of soul in better
structure atleast in next birth. finally after 3 stages, a person becomes Guna
Teeth which Bagavan says in Geetha HE likes him most. In that stage chanting is
not necessary. There was A Bhramin referred in Garuda Puran, who never chanted.
Narath Rishi asked Sri Vishnu who is HIS best Baktha. Bhramin was told. Naradh
came down to earth and saw tha Bhramin sharpening a sword. Smelling trouble-
Naradh in disguise as ordinary man asked the Bhramin why he was sharpening
sword. Bhramin replied,"I want to kill Arjuna, next Narath, because they are
always chanting Sri Vishnu name Narayana causing God trouble". This Bhramin
utmost love not to trouble GOD. If that we get NO need to chant. But chanting
will lead to GOD in this same birth or over few birth depending on strength and
quality of chanting. In Shiva Baktha everyone knows Sant Kannaper who never knew
to chant. Ajamilan you all know never chanted but went to heaven. HOW IS
POSSIBLE- Can any sadak reply. Same thing with prostitute pingala- Gokar brother
never chanted but hearing Bagavath liberated- chanting mantra was main for Jada
Bharat, but he had to be born as Deer, Jayadev was great Baktha of Pori Jaganth,
but his wife saw Bagavan first- Any Sadak NOW THIS STORY? Kasi Batt was chanting
Jaganath randomly, but Bagavan Jaganath came to his house,- Droupathi had Sri
Krishna name in her corner of mind strongly. When she was striped, she called ,
"A KRISHNA DWARKA VASIM---" God came to her rescue. whereas Dharmaraj her
husband could he called Hey Krishna once while throwing chess, he would have
won. So calling Paramathuma if deep in body, mind and soul (Thrikarna) one need
not keep chanting but he will be relishing love on GOD internally and will look
like mad man. Recently I saw vedio presentation on day of Shiva Rathri of a
Guruji at Coimbatore belonging Ayush. There was lot of music Didwans singing,
Drum beater dancing Etc. I asked a person who is close to that Guruji, why this
show. He said, Shiva Rathri one should not sleep, but should do Shiva Nama
Sankeerthan. The I asked why not do that instead of musical night. You can have
the show any other day of Guruji birthday, not on Holy day. NO answer. Option
are given to humans by God with very great benevolence, that atleast one day- be
it Shiva Rathri or Vaikunt Ekadasi one day chanting short cut to mukthi. Gurujis
never tell their disciple the concept of Bagavan Shiva or Narayana- Why I dont
Know. Big statues of Shiva or Narayana outside is immaterial when NO BAKTHI
within. Pardon my posting if any mistakes.
B.S


--------------------------------------------------
Dear Divine,
Pranams.
Think how is your breath flowing in and out of your body - go beyond physical
organs. Think who is pulling this breath? Know who owns each one of your breath?
Understand how much control do you have over so call 'my breath'?
In every inhalation and every exhalation try to chant HIS Divine name. Be aware
of each breath, listen to your own chanting and feel the transformation it is
bringing. You will get what you are looking for.
Let God/Gurus blessings showering upon us all the time be realized.
Humble regards,
always at Thy Divine Feet
Manjula Patel

---------------------------------------------
Hi
According to me, merely chanting the name of ram or krishna is not enough
The object of life is to be healthy,prosperous & live happily & giving thanks to
god by right actions & good deeds done to others but secretly. But how ? By
knowledge
But how to get this knowledge
Says lord krishna-"all work in its entirety culminates in knowledge o partha
(arjun)
So according to me, the first step is hard work no matter what job you are in;
high or low
From your hard work combined with prayer & taking gods name you will get health,
wealth & happiness
balbir singh

-----------------------------------------------

Rishabji, Thanks for the question. Very relevant indeed.



To relate God and Self … ANY -> ALL -> NONE



Relationship is bimodal in notion: I belong to others … others belong to me.
Former generates a sense of dependency and imposes bondage in terms of
submission and inferiority in one's perception. Later induces a sense of
ownership and imposes a bondage in terms of command and superiority in one's
understanding. Therefore, all relations indicate ownership since the entities
related are never considered equal. In fact, one is incapable of cognizing
anything that is not related to oneself! As soon as some new information is
introduced, one instinctively looks how the new information is related to
oneself. One cannot and will not proceed unless such a relation is established.
One, how to communicate the new information inward unless it is linked to at
least some memory cells within? Two, if it remains unconnected within, how to
use the new information?? The very communication process breaks down without a
relation.



Naturally, ownership indicators such as my, mine, his, her, belong-to, etc.
naturally creep into any expression of a relation! Until one perceives a
relation, ownership remains in one's perception. Until one perceives ownership,
insistence of subjective existence (ego) persists. Until the ego persists, all
its relatives such as crave, greed, aspiration, excitement, anxiety,
frustration, anger, depression, etc. will flourish in one's experience. The only
way to drive all these notions away is to remove the very notion of relations
within. The only way to mitigate the relations is to purge the very instinct
that keeps churning relations after relations - the ego!



Cessation of the subject (individual) from the perceived objects (world) IS
ESSENTIAL to claim any relation either way. The ignition key for the very
cognition remains in such a cessation. As soon as a cessation is perceived, a
relation enters the arena along with associated ownership. Therefore, one does
not know how to proceed without a relation as one's cognitive system is locked
into the notion of a relation implicitly! Then how one can ever escape such a
vicious circle?!



Therefore, one has to win over one's very instinct to stake ownership everything
that is perceived. For this one has to (1) realize how all such stakes are faked
just to sustain cognition from within; and (2) find a legitimate owner for all
to reinforce the realization within.



The duality in ownership - I belong to some and some belong to me - is the root
cause for instability within. One claims to be the owner ... but, any such
notion flickers in its very inception and vanishes sooner than it appears! Thus,
the want for ownership remains forever pushing one to stake claims of ownership
on one or the other to sustain the self-proclaimed owner, the ego. Therefore,
such duality has to be mitigated to attain an absolute stability within. Until
one stakes individual claims, this duality ought to remain in the arena since
the perceived objects continue to reciprocate sentiments opposed to the claimed
stakes. The only way to mitigate such notional turbulence within is to realize
an unquestionable authority on all.



The remedy is to attain a no-relation state! But how?? Antidote for any problem
remains within the problem itself. Find a relationship that cannot reciprocate
any duality. That is where the concepts of God and Self become useful.



The concept of God (Brahman) is fathomed from around - there should be a
universal entity that dwells the whole universe to generate, sustain and absorb
all its activities in absolute integrity ... Eeshaavasyamidam sarvam yatkincha
jagatyaam jagat! Though the very concept removes all potential relations, one
would not fathom it instantly. One starts nurturing a relation "I belong to
God". Such a relation cannot reciprocate as "God belongs to me" would instantly
remove the very notion of God from its conceived pedestal of supremacy.



Persistent and vigilant examination of all potential ownerships would start
loosening one's ignorant beliefs on ownership on one hand and start revealing
how the conceived God ought to be the owner of all ... Tena tyaktena bhunjeethaa
maa gridhah kasya sviddhanam!! As the contemplation percolates within, the
concept becomes conviction and conviction becomes reality. One looses one's
individual claims altogether and God alone remains. When God alone remains, WHO
IS WHOSE???!!! All relations vanish altogether ... ONLY TRUTH REMAINS AS IS AND
AS EVER.



The concept of Self (Aatman) arises from a contemplation within - if the subject
remains secluded from the objects as per the perceived cessation, how could
there be any communication at all?! Then, how can there be any relation as
such??!! Therefore, there should be one that never seeks cessation ever and
maintains an unbroken communication across all the apparently discrete entities
in order to enable the very relations ... Ritam pibantou sukritasya loke guhaam
pravishTou parame paraardhye! The fellow does not seek any association and none
can associate with Him. Therefore, the very notion of belonging falters there.
Now the question remains, what are these entities that relating to each other.



Persistent and vigilant examination of all potential existence would start
loosening one's ignorant beliefs on the very existence on one hand and start
revealing how everything is just a shadow of The Invariant within all ...
Chaayaatapou brahmavido vadanti panchaagnayo ye cha triNaachiketaah!! As the
contemplation percolates within, the concept becomes conviction and conviction
becomes reality. One looses one's individual existence altogether and Self alone
remains. When Self alone remains, WHO IS WHOSE???!!! All relations vanish
altogether ... ONLY TRUTH REMAINS AS IS AND AS EVER.



Therefore, my dear friend, choose "a relation" that you revere from your heart;
realize how that alone remains in all other perceived relations; and then how
can the very notion of relation remain?! Till then … practice the contemplation
(Manthana) … cultivate the realization that churns out from the very process ...



Respects.



Naga Narayana.


---------------------------------------------------------

Sadhak says,"Acceptance of truth that God is mine & I am God's (Bhagwat Gita
15.7) is possible but very difficult"
Saadhaka understands ACCEPTANCE (I am God's and God's mine) is the MOST EASY
HAPPENING (Not an action to be done) as whether one accepts or doesn't accept,
EACH and EVERYONE is God's and God's EVERYONES. [Swameejee says,"bhagwaan ke
samaan sulabh koee hai hee nahhen." Manavamaatrake kalyaanake liye page 84].
Chanting God's name is an action and all actions or inaction are not as EASY as
this ACCEPTANCE IS.
Humbly,
Saadhaka.

-----------------------------------------------

Hari Om

Well there is no doubt that 'chanting of God's name' is a very easy mean of
accomplishing Bhakti Yoga and is in itself a 'sadhan bhakti' ! In Kaliyuga,
there is special glory of 'naam japa'.

However, it gives faster results when 'naam japa' is accompanied by Prem (Love
for God) ! That PREM comes to you, when you accept 'mineness' with Paramatma. It
is a law : Love emanates effortlessly out of mineness. Actually, in the methods
of God Realisation 'activity' is not important rather 'bhava' (sentiment) and
'Jnana' (knowledge) is important. Naam Jap is a wonderful medium of awakening
bhavas and jnana though indulging in activity. But if 'bhava' is deficient, naam
jap does not give special results. Regarding 'bhava' there are lot of things,
but the most important is 'mineness with Paramatma' !

Said Goswamiji Maharaj - HOHI RAAM KO NAAM JAPI ...! You 'become' of Raam and
then chant His name...if you do so that gives INSTANT results. Mistake we make
is that we remain of world, and then call Paramatma. " We are worldly people,
Kaliyugi jeevas" - like this if you accept then world and kaliyuga will impact
you more, because you established relationship with them. People say: " Ham to
khaali Raam Raam karate hain" (We do empty- only- Raam Raam) ! Why do you do
'khaali' Raam Raam...why not with 'bhava' (mineness) ?

I don't know why we consider the 'acceptance' to be difficult. Even a child does
not experience any difficulty in accepting: Mother is mine ! Actually the glory
lies in 'becoming of God' ! A chaste Indian wife never utters the name of her
husband throughout her life, still because she 'becomes' of her husband, she
gets emancipated. Such is the glory of 'acceptance' ! The more attached a child
is to mother, faster she comes.

JUST AS: In group there are many mothers and children . When a particular child
calls "Maa" - only his mother comes running , not all mothers inspite of the
fact that all are mothers. Meaning: Child becomes of that particular mother and
then calls. That impacts the mother. Not his use of words 'Maa' ! Had only words
been powerful all mothers would have come running ! So it is 'mineness' which is
primary.

But your understanding in Kaliyuga is not imperfect. Yes...Naam Japa is an
independent sadhan. We must do that. When you do so, by grace of God you shall
'become' of God also, in due course. Ma Suchah ! Keep doing 'naam japa' whole
heartedly, doubtlessly..! Words can't express the glory of 'naam japa' !

JO JEEVA CHAHE MUKTI KO , TO SUMREEJE RAAM ! 'HARIYA' GAILE CHALATA, JAISE AAWE
GAAM !!

If Jeeva wants emancipation, he should keep remembering Raam. Just As: By
keeping on walking, you reach a vilage.

All said and done, still, I can't advice you 'not to accept mineness with
Paramatma'. HOHI RAAM KO NAAM JAPI- is correct method of naam jap. A naam jap
without Prem (bhava) is not futile, in Kaliyuga highly recommended, but
'becoming of Him' gives very fast results. You should ask more Qs on
'acceptance' !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
----------------------------------------------

Hari SharaNam,

Sri ShankaraachaaryaJi Maharaaj says ..

NA MOKSHASYAAKAANKSHAA BHAVAVIBHAVAVAANCHAAPI CHA NA ME ,
NA VIGYAANAAPEKSHAA SHASHIMUKHA SUKHECHCHHEPI NA PUNAH |
ATASTVAAM SANYAACHE JANANI JANANAM YAATU MAM VAI,
MRRIDAANI RUDRAANI SHIV SHIV BHAVAANI-ITI JAPATAH || (DEVI-APARAADHA-KSHAMAA
Stotra/8)

I don't have the desire to attain Moksha, neither I have the desire for the
worldly wealth. I don't have expectations of sciences and O the Moon-faced
Goddess! I don't even desire for the luxuries and comfort. O Mother! Thus, I beg
You, that whenever I am born, give me the chanting of these names to me β€"
Mridani, Rudrani, Shiv, Bhavani.

If you really have the true quest to understand the meaning/importance/glory of
chanting Lord's name from Saints & Scriptures, you can study the lines starting
from "BANDAU RAAM NAAM RAGHUVAR KO -1/18/1" to "SUMIRI SO NAAM RAAM GUNA
GAATHAAA, KARAUN NAAI RAGHUNAATHAHI MAATHAA -1/28/2" of "Sri Raam Charit Maanas"
by GoswaamiJi.

I would also strongly suggest to study the chapters "10 to 15" of the section
"Bhakti Yoga" of "Saadhan-Sudha-Sindhu" by Swami RamSukhaDasJi to have detailed
understanding about chanting Lord's name. SwamiJi has explained each & every
step very nicely.

May all be blessed!
Niteesh Dubey


------------------------------------------------


Dear Sadhaka,
Hare Krishna.
Your understanding of chanting the Holy names, is absolutely correct.

In Brhan Naradiya Purana,3.8.126, it is mentioned,
" Hare Nama Harer nama,
Harer namaiva hi kevalalam,
Kalau nasty eva nasty eva,
Nasty eva, gatir anyatha. "
Which means,
' In this age of kali, there is no other means of self realization, no other
means, no other means, than the chanting of the holynames, chanting of the holy
names, chanting of the holy names. '

Bhagavad Gita also says,
" Yajnanam japa yajnosmi. "
( Gitaji 10, 25)
Which means,
' Of sacrifices, I am the chanting of the holy names, ( Japa) '

' Kaliyuge Smaranan Muktih' which means,
Chanting of the Holy names is the way for liberation in this kaliyuga.

Let us chant and spread the divine wisdom.


Thank you.

Prasad. A. Iragavarapu, MD

------------------------------------------------------

Dear Ones, Namaste!

Pawan KumarJi, your understanding is right, chanting God's name with total
Trust, longing of the heart, and making it the highest priority of life will do
miracle!
It is not only in Kaliyuga, in any age it is so. One caution: It should not be
casually done just because Saints tell us that it is enough in Kaliyuga to chant
only, nothing else needs to be done, while I go about living a life as I please.

Life style, in the sense of making an honest living, helping others, remaining
content with what one has, following some Gita principles whatever one
understands! The beauty of Gita or any scriptures, for that matter, is that you
don't need to first understand the entire text to implement it, one can start
with whatever one has understood even if its just a verse or two. So, don't
worry about difficult to accept, just know for a fact that whatever one
understands gets automatically in one's behaviors!

If acceptance of "God is mine and I am of God" is possible then it is not
difficult!
It becomes difficult because we say it is difficult and mind obliges us because
we already accepted "yes, is difficult"!

The process is that by chanting sincerely, one will know what is God, and what
it means to be of God. From there one can see, "oh, it means God is "I/me" also
in addition to all "I/me's" of others!
If everyone can say "God is mine and I am of God only", then, God must be all
inclusive! Thus one may start seeing God in others as well, first, occasionally
and then more often, and then nothing but God!

When that happens what else remains to run after?

Namaskar.........Pratap Bhatt

----------------------------------------------

Chanting … Power of contemplation …



Vaalmiki was a ruthless hunter plus robber in his prior life. Once Devarshi
Naarada is countered by the fellow. Naarada asks him, "Why are you doing such
heineous act?". Valmiki says, "Yes! I am doing this for my family". Naarada
counters him back, "Do you think any would share your sins?!" The confident
robber says, "Yes! My family adores me!!" Naarada chuckles, "Why don't you
confirm? I will wait for you."



The fellow returns crest-fallen after a while and tells Naarada, "I was
mistaken. Everybody wants what I take home; but, nobody wants to share my sins!
Please guide me out of this!!" Naarada's mission was accomplished. He asked the
illiterate robber to chant "RAMA". The fellow says, "I don't know what it is!
What is the use?!". Naarada shows him a tree and asks him, "What is that?".
Valmiki says, "MARA (tree in Kannada)". Naarada says, "OK! Chant MARA". Vaalmiki
starts chanting "MARA" continuously. The chant turns into "RAMA" sooner than he
realized what RAMA is in the MARA itself. The illiterate brute becomes a
realized Maharshi as Lord Rama reveals Himself to the truthful contemplation
within through a tree (Mara).



That is the power of meditative contemplation. Just a simple sound such as "OM"
is enough ... a simple object such as a stone is enough ... simply, oneself is
enough ... even nothing is enough. Wherever you start and however you proceed,
deep contemplation ought to reveal THE TRUTH in anything and everything that is
contemplated upon ... BECAUSE THE TRUTH IS EVERYTHING!



|| Tasyai tapo damah karmeti pratishThaa || Undeterred vigilant focus is the
basis for contemplation. It empties the mind off all the notions.



|| Vedaah sarvangaani || Knowledge pours into an absolutely unprejudiced empty
mind. Rather it floods in with no barriers as all potential barriers for
receiving the same are dropped in the very process.



|| Satyamaayatanam || The very contemplation being initiated toward THE TRUTH
marches ahead to attain the same as awareness fills the empty fellow from within
as the knowledge fills from around. THE TRUTH remains in the altar as the
knowledge of the world grows with absolute awareness. As the existential
knowledge merges into The Awareness within, The Awareness alone shines and THE
TRUTH alone remains in the horizon AS IS ... and ... AS EVER.



Rather what you chant does not matter … how you apply yourself in the same
matters a lot … why you do it matters much more. There cannot be any barrier to
chanting in time or space. It is a foolproof path to realize in all Yugas
anywhere in the world ... as far as it is done right. Therefore, chant my dear
friend … Chant to contemplate! Contemplate to meditate!! Meditate to realize!!!
Let that awareness in that realization shower the very meditation. Let that
cleansed meditation wash the dirt in contemplation. Let that divine Gangaa flow
down from such contemplation to the very existence that is immersed in the
chanting ... to cleanse the ignorance and inertia scattered in its nooks and
corners. Let The Awareness BE as IS and as EVER illumining all the activities
within as well as around.

Respects.

Naga Narayana.
-----------------------------------------------------
Kaliyug naam adhara.If you exercise devoution(chanting is the simplest
technique) sincerely,you knock the gates.In His blessings you shall feel the
response.
subhashtewari

-------------------------------------------------------
Dear Gita-Talk member,

Chanting God's name by mouth while your mind is
wandering somewhere else is of no use. Nothing
of your chanting will ever reach God. Instead you
should "throw all your thoughts away" and then "chant
God's name" in your thinking. This will have the effect
you are looking for. With this process, you will eventually
loose your EGO. Once this is done, in 3+ years of
"chanting" will abolish almost all your negative karma
and you will be getting "bells and whistles" for higher
powers as you move forward.

Good luck! Bye!
Notesh Otes

-----------------------------------------------------


It is about knowing our self and being our self while everything happens....
It is all in our interest i.e. to live in peace, joy, happiness, bliss.....
qualities of true self....
Choice exists..... to live with clear understanding of who we are.....

What we choose determines whether it is going to be satyug or kalyug for us.....

Question should be reframed to "Do we really know what we wish for"....


Sushil Jain

-------------------------------------------------------
Dear Divine, pranams.
BG: " Mamaivaansho jeevaloke..." We are an atom of God so He resides in us.
Establish the relationships with your TRUE SELF first and rest will be
understood automatically!!!

Vedic Shaanti Mantra: "Aum sham no mitrah... namaste vaayo, tvamev pratyaksham
brahmaasi..." this atom within us is connected to THE SELF via breath which is
considered as brahman ITSELF. Without breath, nothing is perceived, no
realization so be conscious of it.

BG: "Omityekaaksharm..." Om sound is the primordial sound that represents the
Divinity within us - everything starts from IT and everything merges in IT.
Chant it, hear it being chanted (outloud or in silence - doesn't matter) and
realize IT. You can chant any mantra but know that as you become silent within
they all merge in OM - more so to the lingering sound of Ommmmmm - naadbindu.

Heads up: want to share my experience - our mind wants to run away from what is
good for the SELF so be watchful. While chanting align your breath with it and
keep on listening to yourself also. Mind will distract & either you will forget
to watch the breath or forget to listen to yourself chant but keep bringing your
attention back to both chanting & breath awareness.

Good luck!
Humble regards,
always at Thy Lotus Feet

Manjula Patel

-------------------------------------------------
Hari Om

Instead of eliminating Aham (Jnana Yoga) , the change of aham (Bhakti Yoga) is
easier and better. Therefore change the aham form atom to 'I am God's and not
world's' ! Actually we are God's naturally, automatically, erroneously we have
become of world. Just As: The acceptance that 'I am householder' makes your
house holdership 'solid/undivided' Similarly: When you accept 'I am God's' then
your relationship with God becomes 'akhand' (undivided) ! " I am God's and not
of any other" - Mere To Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro Na Koi...this is your NEW BIRTH.
When you become of God..your 'gotra' changes..you become 'achyut gotra' , there
is no caste then of yours..you are BHAKTA ! If you have pride of caste then you
have not become of God. 'Deeksha' ( teaching of Guru) means - To change !!!

Your 'acceptance' only binds you, your acceptance only releases you.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------------------------------------------------

Radhe Radhe

Acceptance is not difficult. Acceptance of the Truth is man's duty. You accepted
your wife (assuming you are married), however she may have been. Once married,
it is DONE! Thereafter, you regarded her as your family. You accepted your
family as your own, your guru as your own, and so on. What else is this besides
acceptance? You know both acceptance and non-acceptance. Swamiji says to apply
this knowledge of "acceptance" and accept that you are God's and only God is
yours (only He will remain with you always).

After this acceptance, there is nothing more to be done for yourself! So now
chant, do kirtan, japa, swadhyaa, satsang , but this is all for others. Not for
yourself, as you have already turned yourself over to God. You are his
responsibility now. So simple! (as Swamiji says).


Radha Rani
Radhe Radhe

--------------------------------------------------------

Shree Hari Ram Ram

You may benefit from reading these articles by Swamiji

Become God's and Chant His Holy Name
http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net/eBooks/Become-Gods-and-Chant-His-Holy-Name.pdf

Glories of Chanting the Lord's Name
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/2882

On Chanting and Repeating God's Divine Name
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1967

Chanting Holy Name Transcends Nature
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1521

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

------------------------------------------------

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Hari Om,
I am reading the thoughts expressed by sadhakas here for sometime.I am a 55
years old lady, living alone and working for small children.
I have read Gita, Upanisad and many spiritual books, written articles on
positive thinking on world magazines, devoted myself in service for mankind.But
amidst all this I feel always lonely and seek love from others.Because of my
ethical approach to life I have not been accepted by people in my family as it
goes against their way of functioning in a easy give and take principle.I do not
compromise on truth.But I need love from those whom I have worked for or living
with like my maternal family members, my husband , my community whom I have
served for years.But it is only give and give situation for me which drains my
energy after sometime and I feel poor and empty from inside.I cannot accept this
kind of life for myself.Is it wrong to seek love and unconditional acceptance
from husband and family members to remain happy in life ?how I shall get love
from my own people to live my life.Arjuna had also this dilema in Mahabharata,
but got the guidance from Krishna.No doubt he won the war, but lost his sons and
his last life was not full of happiness. We ordinary human being who are trying
to live a good and happy life how to achieve that in places where we do not get
to join a satsang and written words do not inspire ! Please help.

sister


-------------------------------------------------


-Shree Hari

Dear Sister Namaste!

You do these acts of service for whom? For you? I do not think so, the service
for mankind is service for The Beloved, it's in you soul, a divine expression of
your bhava; this understanding of selfless service not seeking reward is known
and admired across many cultures:

"The beginning of love is to let those we love be perfectly themselves, and not
to twist them to fit our own image. Otherwise we love only the reflection of
ourselves we find in them." Thomas Merton

4:20. Having abandoned attachment to the fruit of the action, ever content,
depending on nothing, he does not do anything Though engaged in activity.
22. Content with what comes to him without effort, free from the pairs of
opposites and envy, even-minded in success and failure, Though acting, he is not
bound.

Anywhere I see suffering, that is where I want to be, doing what I can.
Princess Diana

Luke 6:35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in
return; and your reward shall be great, and you shall be the children of the
Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Be good, be kind, be humane, and charitable; love your fellows; console the
afflicted; pardon those who have done you wrong.
Zoroaster

Can you not see Divine Sister, that all the love you would ever need is pouring
out of the Supreme Lord into your heart.

Stay blessed.

Om ... Shanti ...

Mike.

-------------------------------------------------

Material, physical dependence is a fact. There is interdependence.
But psychologically every one is self sufficient. One is under the illusion that
psychological discomfort can be undone or escaped by depending upon others. It
has to be borne, absorbed by the individual himself. In fact, when one does not
go for avoidance of this discomfort by consolations, explanations- it is
automatically absorbed.
To see psychological sufficiency is the key, is unalloyed enjoyment, is your
connection to the 'whole'.

Y V Chawla

----------------------------------------------
Dear Sister,
                                          Namaskar!

By now, you might be satisfied with what learnt Sadaks on the forum have
suggested that Love and respect from anybody what to speak from spouse, children
or friends & relatives can/should never be demanded but earned. Even if by all
means and trial love is not reciprocated, refer to KARMANE VA ADIKARESTE.....
the theme and very famous Verse of whole B. GITA...and be only happy and
peaceful with your sincere action without any return expectations!!!

Sadak B.S. has very correctly put all your efforts for unconditional loving
others
with no return of love even from your family members to YOUR PAST KARMAS!! 
Sister, see it is logical and easy to understand that "What we sow we are bound
to reap  that only" and that is why some great person has said a proverb: "AS
YOU SOW SO SHALL YOU REAP!!!"

In view of above reality, it is logical to agree that those people whom you are
loving must have loved you in past lives and in this life now are getting return
as fruit and you have not loved your spouse, children and relatives etc., in
past lives and that is why you are not getting back love from them in return.
Thus, having firm faith in KARMA philosophy which, would help you to be always
happy and would help you not to get depressed when Love is not received back.
Rather, for all the return unpleasant fruits for your Dharmic actions in present
life YOU MUST THANK LORD THAT HE HAS HELPED YOU TO GET ERASED THE BALANCE OF
RETURN FROM PAST BAD ACTIONS FRUITS DUE TO YOU, IN PRESENT LIFE  BY NOT
PROVIDING PLEASANT FRUITS!!!!!

Hope above elaborate explanation of Karma philosophy might help to remove your
dis-satisfaction from not receiving Love from near & dears!

Love and blessings from elder brother,

I am
(Kuldeep Kumar Kaul)

---------------------------------------------

Expectations - right or wrong?



Wanting certain response from others is NOT WRONG; it is but natural to anyone …
in fact, that is the only way anyone can ever know how to live! But alignment of
the same with wisdom remains crucial for the success :).



If you want something from others, YOU SHOULD DO WHAT THEY WANT ... NOT WHAT YOU
WANT! That is the rule of the game called society and nature. Nothing in the
universe would care to alter one's own agenda (nature) unless there is either a
threat or a boost for one's very existence. Therefore, you can get response of
your choice from others only by two ways: Threaten them or lure them! Either way
they see their benefits. When threatened, one runs to protect one's current
status. When lured, one runs to enhance one's current status.



The only way you get a favorable response from your environment is by aligning
yourself in its favor. That is the law of nature that nobody can trespass. For
example, never try to hallucinate of overpowering gravity by your command. If
you insist, you would hurt yourself ... you may even break your limbs, ribs,
neck and skull depending on the intensity of your insistence!!! On the other
hand, if you align your actions along with the gravitational force, you may
achieve many things that you would not dream of doing on your own. That is the
power of alignment - it derives synergy from the collective presence.



In your case, you may think that you are "giving" to others. It does not
necessarily mean they believe that they are "receiving" anything worthwhile from
you. In fact, they may even think on the contrary that they are presented with
some unwanted, annoying or threatening "gift" from you!! When they believe they
receive something worthwhile to them, they will definitely respond favorably to
you.



Threatening others also depends on others more than you! Unless others feel
threatened if they do not act as per your dictates, they will not respond in
your favor. In fact, if they find ways to threaten you back more than you can …
you are inviting their wrath rather than favor!! Therefore, you need to
calculate your power as against theirs and calibrate the same perpetually in
order to keep "winning" over others. Speculating on your background, you would
not want to entertain this path at all :).



But remember that the world is like a mirror - it religiously reflects the
sentiments with which you approach it. It may even exaggerate the sentiments
based on its own emotional baggage leading divergence in the associated
relations. If you threaten it ... you will be threatened! If you attempt to lure
it ... you will be lured!! The question remains, therefore, whether you are fit
to face the retaliated sentiments!!!



More importantly, it depends whether you could wield wisdom to bring in
convergence in the relation. Divergence brings in conflicts from around and
contradictions from within pitting the fellow into a perpetual fight. It
threatens the fellow in its immediate vicinity and flushes an anxiety of
potential isolation in distant horizons. Therefore, convergence in any relation
is the key to reduce the conflicts and the associated miseries from survival
perspective.



Remember, all relations could be gateways to LIBERATION, ABSOLUTE FREEDOM … if
you know how to make them converge. Convergence is also 2-sided just like its
nemesis, divergence. Instead of distancing the entities involved like divergence
would, convergence would bring the entities closer and closer. As differences
amongst them mitigate, the entities involved in the relation also would approach
their relative unity. UNITY is FREEDOM ... no more threats ... no more lures.
Therefore, every relation could be a gateway to the ultimate UNITY, Self
Realization as well from spiritual perspective.



Survival or Spiritual … it is wiser to stay with wisdom and strive to converge
upon our relations. Rather survival is just a subset of Spirituality; but,
remains the only gateway to anything in one's life. Therefore, survive wisely …
spirituality is the natural eventuality to a wise survival.



Respects.



Naga Narayana.
-------------------------------------------

In Nature there is a Law : Whatever you give, you receive. Whatever you don't
give, you won't receive. [It is not necessary that you will receive from the
person whom you give, that is why it is said that we receive from God.]
You or anyone is NO exception to this Law of Nature.
Humbly,
Saadhaka

-----------------------------------------------

It is quite difficult to answer this question without knowing your exact
situation.

Yes.. You need love. Accept that Krishna (God) loves you and you love Krishna.
People around you are Krishna's manifestations. Love them and accept love from
them. If people around you don't give you love, then be happy as you know that
the Supreme Lord loves you.

Yes.. You need happiness. Your self is beyond matter and is always happy. Accept
that your self is always happy. If you experience suffering or difficult
circumstances in your life, then don't sweat about them. Let go of external
circumstance (both happiness and unhappiness). Don't hold on to them as you know
that self is always happy and these circumstances are fleeting in nature.
External unhappiness and happiness both will come and go. You don't need to deny
external happiness. Be externally happy but don't attach importance to it.
Attach importance to your atma (self) which is eternal, full of knowledge and
happiness.

Yes.. You need companionship and don't need loneliness. First accept that
Krishna is always with you and He will always remain with you. So, you are not
lonely. Seek companionship of your husbands, kids and other family members
knowing that you are always with Krishna. Enjoy with them. Be happy with them
and give them happiness. See them as manifestation of Krishna and be happy in
their companionship.

Yes.. sometimes family and community drains our energy. But if you see that you
are serving Krishna within them, then they won't drain your energy. Now, you are
not working for them but for Krishna. At least, this attitude will drain lesser
energy. More you will apply it, more happier you will become.

It is our nature to seek love and unconditional acceptance from husband and
family members to remain happy in life. You cannot change your nature. There is
one person who surely gives you this. It is Krishna (God). Krishna
unconditionally loves you. So, accept that unconditional love. After this
acceptance, be happy with what you get. If your family members love you
unconditionally, then it is great. If they don't, accept it. You can't change
them. If you accept unconditional love of Krishna, I hope you will get from
others too. At least you won't be disturbed if you don't get it from others.

>> how to achieve that in places where we do not get to join a satsang and
written words do not inspire !

I read Swamiji's book Sadhan-Sudha-Sindhu. It is on the web. Whenever I have
time, I read this book on my phone. Since I read it on my phone, no one even
notices and I end up reading a lot. I might have even read some chapters more
than dozen times.

Before reading this book, I have attended many satsangs (more than 1000s). I
used to attend satsang twice a day and even lived in temple. But those things
did not advance me much. Reading this book is even better than those satsangs.
It goes to the heart and the teachings of Gita appear so simple and obvious.

At His feet in service,
G B

--------------------------------------------------

We all have to practice unconditional love, unconditional service, unconditional
acceptance of others/situations....to experience true happiness, peace,
love..... Words have power to transform if understood in the right context...

Conditions restrict our happiness or change it into unhappiness... Conditions
are nothing but strong desires expecting people to behave / situations to occur
in a certain way.... Try doing away with all conditions...to feel fulfilled,
feel the joy of service to others, feel the joy of giving.....world may change
entirely....best wishes

Sushil Jain

---------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Dear Sister, it is understandable dilemma for those in your situation.

You asked,"Is it wrong to seek love and unconditional acceptance from husband
and family members to remain happy in life ?"

Please know that happiness that depends on anything, either material things or
acceptance, or love from another, be that spouse, children, parents, friends, is
not happiness. It is a short term gratification of senses and mind, even when
obtained through such seeking. You already are experiencing emptiness, energy
drained out of you, etc., which is the proof of this dependency.
Problem is the dependency itself robbing you of freedom! It is precisely because
Happiness(Love) is not "yours" or "mine", it is Impersonal, not limited, and not
caused by a thing. Seeking gets you limited, giving up seeking gets total
freedom!

Just give up any such dependency in your understanding, and see what happens!
You will discover a great freedom from all seeking in a flash of understanding
that "personal seeker" is the problem.
We want to be loved because we don't love. If we do love unconditionally then we
cannot ask to be loved in return(it is condition). Please see this clearly. Be
one with your aches, pains and emptiness in total surrender! The more we fight
with such emotions more will be their power over us.

Besides, you are doing service to humanity, writing on positive thinking in
magazines, sticking to truth at all cost, right? These acts are rewards in
themselves, so, don't use them as means to bring Love and Happiness. Please
discover within that Love is the Whole, not a result of doing and expecting.

When you discover "me/mine", as the root cause of all dependencies arising out
of feeling lack within, you put an end to all seeking"!

Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt

-------------------------------------------------
By default heart is the well with spring of love. Love springs like swyambhu and
originate on its own. All hearts have that swayambhu called Love which only
originate to give. But then there are rocks and weeds covering this well unless
kept clean. These rocks and weeds are kaam, krodh, lobh, moh, raag, dwesh and
ahamkaar as mentioned in geeta.
One's effort or karma should be to work on keeping the well of heart clean, so
as the spring of love is unclogged and it comes out to give and only give.
Though it sounds easy, but its tough to practice.

One way to succeed on this cleansing exercise is to work for higher goals, to
work for god (what else can be highest goal then god itself), the goal of being
able to see that swayambhu always in that cleaned up well. Thats also one
definition of nishkaam karma.

While we do any act lets watch that the objective/goal remains to be clearly
able to see & feel that swayambhu called Love. Please don't expect the well to
get cleaned up overnight as this is not a magical pill. The skill of speaking a
language helps for 30 years of career. The skill of people management helps
probably 70 years. But Nishkaam karma is the skill, the art of living to be
learnt for this birth and beyond.

regds,
rakesh

------------------------------------------

Dear Sister

My sincere appreciation for the good work you are doing for so long !!

God loves you for the good work you are doing and thats precisely why HE has
made you post your feelings here .
I have no doubt at all that the enlightened wise souls in this group will help
you transform into a very Happy Content cheerful and enthusiastic person who
will continue to do the noble service that you are doing .
I am receiving a lot of valuable guidance for my post here regarding finding a
Guru .

May I offer my humble thinking on this matter ??

Everyone and everything is the Lord . Believe firmly in this !! Say this to
yourself a 100 times a day for a 100 days or as long as needed to be carved like
a rock in your consciousness .
Then you will see that you are serving the Lord in all the good work you do !!

We need to be free of expectations and desires to be Happy and content .thats
another aspect you may consider . It frees us from the unpredictable behaviour
of others and never will we feel dissapointed .

So I request you dear sister to look upon God and God alone on whom to make all
your demands and expect nothing from any other perishable relationship of this
world .

May the wise and much respected souls here bring God's voice to you through this
group .
I wish you inner peace ,bliss and contentment .

Your brother ,

Hemant Jadhav
------------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

Why do you seek reciprocation/acknowledgment/ appreciation / fame (called 'love'
by you ) from those who you 'served' ? 'Service' means no expectations ! If you
seek love in return, how is it 'service' ? It is a trade/business then. You
praise me/notice me/acknowledge me/ appreciate me , and I do service to you
....this is business not service. This tendency/desire for 'love' is converting
a 'Rupee' into a 'chavanni' (25 paisa) ! In spiritual language it is seeking
peanuts...'Chavanni chhap desire' !!!

There was one 'yogi' (concentrating mind/body) ! He had amazing power of sitting
motionless for months. He once went to King and told him about his power to
concentrate. Kind got interested . Yogi said , I am sitting motionless here, you
can build a house upon me leaving only air space and I will remain motionless
till the construction is over. King agreed and asked him as to what he will take
for showing this power ! Yogi replied: ' Sir Ghoda Loonga, Ghoda' ( Sir I will
take one horse in reward) !!!

Seeking petty appreciation is akin to that 'Ghoda loonga' , Divine Sister. Leave
this desire ! Throw it away...MUJHE TUM SE KUCHH BHI NA CHAHIYE...!

Actually it is not 'giving' and 'giving' which is draining energy from you (as
claimed by you) , it is 'not being able to take' which is draining you. It is a
law: If you desire anything, you yourself have created obstacles into
fulfillment of the same. The 'poverty/emptiness' felt by you is due to that
desire ...and that desire only. Desire as a law creates 'deficiency' as soon as
it perks up/arises. Only that is deficient/poor/empty/beggar , who desires. If
you don't desire, where is deficiency/poverty/ emptiness ? THINK : What
difference will it make if somebody praises you or not praise you ? Horse is too
little a reward for that Yogi who can reach Paramatma if desire for horse goes.

There is one sitting at top called Paramatma...is He not watching you ? Focus on
Him..rather than on worldly people. If worldly people praise you, consider that
to be an insult. Get sad then, because it is then that your whole Rupee gets
exchanged for a petty 'chavanni' !!

Read also recent deliberations on this Divine Forum under a similar Q raised by
another Divine Sister like you...Saritaji !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

-------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadak,
Raga & Deuvesa (Likes and dislikes) are fruits of our past Karma. So it may be
necessary to know what that does. What you give and give is that which you took
and took. This earth is literally jail for Athuma. May be it God, if HE comes
here, the Karma role never leaves. You have family and have to perform Karma-
failing you will have to take another to complete. Just keep saying this Sloka
once a day, things will change as you said Arjuna seeked Sri Krishna so also you
can seek Sri Krishna.
NARAYANAL BHRAMA JAYATHE,
NARAYANAL RUDRO JAYATHE,
NARAYANAL INDRO JAYATHE,
NARAYANAL PRAJAPATHI JAYATHE,
NARAYANAL PRAVARTHANTHE,
NARAYANE PRELEEYATHE,
ETHA DRIDVETHA SRIRO DIYATHE.
If you need to pronounce correctly- kindly reply I shall mail the video of that
sloka.
B.S

-----------------------------------------------
Hari OM sister,
Even Bhakta Pralhad was not accepted by his father because he was a devotee of
God. So, it is probably not correct to seel love. Rather, one needs to give love
to all who accepts and not hate anyone, even the foes. Mere words and satsang
will not help. If you are so destined, you will change the course of your
thinking and stop worrying about not getting love and fair treatment from those
you loved, lived with and cared for. You will have a change of attitude and
perspective to one one of loving others without expectation of anything in
return. If one considers everyone and everything
as God's various forms and intensely love and submit to that thought and God,
all other negative thoughts of not being accepted and not being loved will go
away. Have trust in God and submit all your pains and suferings to his feet.
After all it is He who has provided for all your sufferings /disappointments.
Return all these to Him as your offerings and do not keep them in your heart and
mind. It is extremely difficult but that is the only way to love God and all his
forms. Just pray to God to give you the strength to ignore all non-acceptance,
non-recognition, neglect and that are inflicted on you by others. Do not
complain. Do not remember them. Forgive everyone all the time. Realise that you
are the Atman and no one can hurt you by non-acceptance, non-recognition or
neglect. Love is not for seeking
and getting: love is for giving away. As one gives love away, more love fills in
the heart. Give up the ego that you need to be loved and cared for, give up the
ego that gets hurt.
Basudeb Sen

-----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sister
Thank you for sending this question. It is amazing that your message could have
been completely mine as well except for writing in world magazines and age of
course. I am wory of writing articles. Thanks to these satsangas I have stopped
seeking acceptance from individuals around me. If they do it is devine grace.
Many a time we women do not know what our original nature and needs are. It need
not be the same as men or need not be subservient and never against. At the best
it should be complementary. Not knowing our nature, it is natural to get lost.
Saving grace is that we are able to articulate our doubts and seek help.
Examples will not give answers, but they definitely guide. Krishnaa(Draupadi)
was a princess herself, blessed with eternal beauty, had five great men for
husbands, Krishna for a brother and hugely experienced Pritha(Kunti) with her to
name a few. Yet she had to go through worst possible difficulties. Vasudhaiva
Kutumbakam thought helps me swim. As they say I may be alone but not lonely.
Watching/just looking at all the five senses as I go through my day has been
extremely helpful along with aasanas and pranayama.
Thank you
Veena

---------------------------------------------------
Reply to the sister who has made a appeal for guidance

To follow the right path first you must cut off all contact with those of your
relatives who do not love or respect you. Go to a ashram or old age home & work
there in return for being allowed to stay there. I promise if you follow this
you will find respect for the work you will be doing & also loving friends. Do
not tell your relatives where you are living otherwise they will come & trouble
you. Learn & do pranayam & also teach the others. This pranayam done 20 times in
the morning will show the right way
the meaning of pranayam is "om" but simply repeating the word om is not enough.
The breathing
Will lead you to the highest happiness
Best wishes
balbir singh

-------------------------------------------------------

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Shree hari Ram Ram

Revisiting an older posting.  Adding unposted messages.
Last round before closure.
Ram Ram

------------------------------------------

Respected Sir

Jai Shri Ram

In Chapter 7, Bhagwan says that Nothing is beyond Him," Mattah Pertaram Naanyat
- - - Sootre Maniganh ev".
In Ram Charit Manas, Bhagwan Shankar says "Hari byapak sarvata samaana, Prem te
prakat hoi main jaana"

What exactly is meant by " Prem ".  We do talk about prem routinely but when
this chaupaai crossed my mind i could exactly know or understand the meaning of
"Prem".  This means
that Prem is the key to realise Him who is there everywhere.  Now that I have
found the key, I do not know the meaning of Prem.  Please help me with meaning
of PREM.  I believe that I am very close now.

Man Mohan Batra

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Prem means unconditional surrender with implicit faith in HIM and HIS deeds.
That is all. Love and Love alone.... P. Gopi Krishna

------------------------------------------------------------

Pure Love by Swami Bhoomananda Tirtha

The mind and heart in us, not the body, are the mirror to reflect Truth.
Therefore, make them pure and fine, more and more so every day. For that, they
should be nourished and treated properly. Nothing other than pure love, which
flows from the heart spontaneously, will help you to this end.

Do not be poor in the matter of loving. Love, love and love. That is all. Do not
ask questions and wait until you get full answers. Begin the pursuit, and you
will find it progresses and fulfils itself in time. A mind which cannot take to
love, radiate and manifest it amply, is virtually a stone.

To love one and all is not anything alien to our heart or soul. In fact, not to
do so is antagonistic to the innocent human nature. A man who loves will begin
his considerations from the premise of acceptance. Accept those that are with
you and around you. It may create a conflict and raise grave questions. That
should not stop you in your efforts. To think of the conflict and resolve it in
the end, you will need to discover the basic truth and unity of everything in
the universe.
--
Paritala Gopi Krishna

-----------------------------------------------

When we come out of our lower mind, we canget the first glimpse of Prem. Unlike
movement of mind or body as seen in attachment,Prem is a state of Bliss
accompanied with Prakash or Light of Universal Understanding. It is experienced
when wandering mind goes within and merges with Inner Divinity. Bhagvad-Geeta
Chapter 6 Verse18 describes this process as 'Yada Viniyatam Chittam, Atmani eva
avtishthte, Nihispruhah Sarva Kamabhyah, Yukta iti Uchyate Tada.
As we approach this state, consiousness starts expanding and touching more and
more people with its purity. Ultimately as Bertrand Russel read his paper at
Mathematical Congress in Paris, when Ego becomes Zero, Consiousness becomes
Infinite. This is similar to the Hari Vyapak Sarva Samana. It is not possible to
experience this State without Prem which is illustrated in outer world as Sun.It
gives light as well as Life to everything living; but is unattached. As the New
Testament reads'Sun shines equally on  the vituous and wicked' Parable of Sun as
incarnation of Yoga or Light starts at the beginning of Ch.4 as'Imam Vivaswate
Yogam, proctavan aham avyayam' So also verse 34 of Ch.13. Love or Prem is light
of understandding and is also accompanied by ever expanding Consiousness tending
towards Infinity.
Jayantilal Shah


---------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhak,

I am God's and ONLY GOD is mine.

Strictly adhere to this mul mantra and see how the supreme Love menifest through
you. This exclusive mineness with Gopala is the master Key to LOVE !!!
No need to define love, just be Love....

with Love,
a sadhika
Sadhna Karigar
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
------
Dear Sadaks,
What Sant meera means that she does not give second thought on anything in world
other than Giridhar..
MERE TO GIRDHAR GOPAL, DOOSARO NA KOI
In world she married, in law  poisoned her. She lost her most loved Idol of Sri
Krishna which she was carrying with her. But her consistence in mind on
Giridhar. Here there no question of mineness. She saw Giridhar in all as in case
of Prahalad. We all know God is for all. That prem comes understanding that this
Jagat is Maya and God is only Truth.
Meera says I do not have another to be interested. DOOSARO NA KOI. But we are
interested in everything on earth except God.
Jai Sri Krishna
B.Sathyanarayan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-

Hari Om

The Q of Batraji takes us to the ultimate end result of the Human life. Prem! In
fact, real Prem flows after you are liberated ! When are you liberated? You are
liberated when you cease to get impacted by the world
(body/mind/ego/intellect.... Worldly people/activities/things) ! That Prem is
then called in Scriptures as PARA BHAKTI !!

In Parabhakti state.... The biggest obstacle comes between self and God
Realisation ... In the form of what we call "insistence of a particular way"
(matvaad) like dvait or advait, karma yoga or jnana yoga, bhakti yoga or
meditation, etc ! If you don't insist that x or y is the way ... Para Bhakti
very quickly makes you realise God.... So says Swamiji in the Preface/Foreword
of Sadhak Sanjeevani ! You get "Anant Ras" in Para Bhakti !

There is nothing beyond this Parabhakti ... PREM.... Exclusive Love with
Paramatma .... Which springs forth automatically out of having the sentiment of
"Exclusive Mineness with Paramatma" ! Hence let us establish "mineness" with Him
! APNAPAN is the answer!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
---------------------

Very precisly said by Vyas NB ji. It cant be explained in words. Like a feeling.
U cant say how sweet is sugar. U can feel urself in evey one is an indication by
gitaji. MADBHAVAMAGATA.
THANX
RAJA Gurdasani
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----------------------


"nearness Now is nari’s pain" ...............The Song of Love


  From somewhere close, closer than  closeness can be,

  nari heard a voice, " Come into my Embrace, narinder,

  The nearness now is near no more... too far is this nearness, nari...

  Come closer, and let even nearness disappear into the Great Void of Silence

  Where You are not You, nor I am I, any the more !"


And in despairing nariness, hope of Being did blossom

  Into the song of Love...............................

  " Come into my Embrace , Krishna

The nearness too, distance so far has become, in This Moment Now... yes too far
...!

Come closer, Beloved , and let nariness die forever unto the void of Silence

Where Krishna is Krishna , Only Krishna, not Nari or Narinder !! "


AUM

narinder bhandari
"nearness Now is nari's pain" ...............The Song of Love

  From somewhere close, closer than  closeness can be,

  nari heard a voice, " Come into my Embrace, narinder,

  The nearness now is near no more... too far is this nearness, nari...

  Come closer, and let even nearness disappear into the Great Void of Silence

  Where You are not You, nor I am I, any the more !"

  And in despairing nariness, hope of Being did blossom

  Into the song of Love...............................

  " Come into my Embrace , Krishna

The nearness too, distance so far has become, in This Moment Now... yes too far
...!

Come closer, Beloved , and let nariness die forever unto the void of Silence

Where Krishna is Krishna , Only Krishna, not Nari or Narinder !! "

AUM

narinder bhandari
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
Dear sadhakas,
Hare krishna.

This is in response to a question from a sadhaka, regarding prem.

Prem means love. Love is very essential for peace of mind in this life and also
for spiritual advancement to realize the lord.

Lord krishna says in bhagavad gita,

" Tesham satata yuktanam,
Bhajatam priti purvakam,
Dadami buddhi yogam tam,
Yena mam upayanti te. " ( Gita 10, 10)

Which means,

" To those who are devoted to serving me with love all the time, I give them the
understanding by which they can. reach me. "

The words buddhi , and yogam are very important here. Buddhi means intelligence.
Buddhi yoga is the action in krishna consciousness. It is the highest
intelligence.

When we try to goback to the supreme personality of godhead and, takeup the
devotional service of lord krishna, then this action is buddhi yoga. Buddhi yoga
is the process by which we get out of material misery.

Once we know our goal, and we are in devotional service constantly to reach lord
krishna, then we are in buddhi yoga or bhakti yoga, which is the highest stage.

If we serve the lord with prem ( love), then lord krishna gives us the
intelligence ( buddhi), by which we can advance in spiritual life and
ultimately, go back to supreme personality of godhead.

Thank you.

Hare krishna.

Prasad. A. Iragavarapu. M. D
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Love is ................................ NO COMPLAINT .................

Love is ....................................silence in bloom

Love is .................................... Joy spreading its fragrance
choicelessly

Love is ...................................an 'happening'...............just as
meditation is



Love is ...................................... just love
..........................

anarvachniya ............Ah !!!!

AUM

narinder bhandari
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-------

Hey Govind!
My dear saadhak friends,
        When I saw the topic  "What is meant by PREM?". I could not think of any
word or sentence which can dare to go near the "prem tatva". But, when I started
reading all the posted messages specially by "Shri Deosharan Bisnath ji", I got
myself merged with it. I really thank you all. I pray God to be surrounded with
such great devotee who are full of divine love.
       Dear "Shri Vyas ji", I think you meant by "I am God's " and not "I am God"
in your sentence (i.e. PREM = I am God, only God is mine, nothing else is mine !
).

Hey Vaasudev!
Niteesh
==============================================

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadaks,
Sri Man Mohan Batra --you are NOT close to prem but you are in prem. The prem
which Gopies had on Bagavan. This prem when develops unconditional (In Suk and
Duk) it manifest in everything- living and Non living (mountains, fresh air,
deep blue sky Etc. Then you see Bagavan in them. Eg: Deep blue sky, you will
recollect Sri Krishna as light blue body colour, you see pink flowers, you
recollect HIS lips, like Sant Namadev saw Vital in a dog. It is confirmed in
sastras, vedas, Bagavath geetha and Srimath Bagavath that Sri Krishna is going
to be with you soon. Where as people doing meditation, pooja, Yagna and people
who elaborate texts  will be behind Bagavan not knowing whether they will
succeed. Prem is simple, soft, ego less, deep in heart succeeds vedas.
Jai Sri Krishna
B.Sathyanarayan

----------------------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

Dear Batraji ! "PREM" is the automatic and natural outcome of "APNAPAN"
(mineness) ! Divine Prem (Love) hence essentially means exclusive "mineness with
Paramatma" ! When you establish exclusive "mineness" with Him- Prem flows ! When
you establish "mineness" with Him- your "ego" CHANGES ! Because your ego
consists of "me and mine" only ! When your ego changes, you change; your bhavas
change and since karta has changed, hence "karmas" also change. Instead of
"kaamana" (desires for worldly things) - Prem for Paramatma comes in its place
!! But mineness should be EXCLUSIVE :

MERE TO GIRDHAR GOPAL, DOOSARO NA KOI !

PREM = I am God's, only God is mine, nothing else is mine !

I am happy you are getting closer to the truth.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

PREM means unconditional Love.............
Love without conditions..........not even the hidden ones.....
In unconditional love you experience the bliss.....be one.....
Go beyond the two.....
Sushil Jain
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Prem means love. Love does not only mean the type we see in films. It means a
broader all-encompassing love which includes everybody. When you have that God
himself will come before you.

Hari Shanker Deo


---------------------------------------------------------------------

Namaste

PREM or Divine love is the flower of flowers. It is the rarest of all flowers
and it is cultivated in the hearts of all devotees. PREM or bhakti is intense
love, or the highest form of devotion to God. It is supreme attachment to the
lotus-feet of the Lord. It springs from the bottom of the devotee's heart. In it
there is no effort - there is only genuine, natural, spontaneous longing to meet
God.

God is love. Love is God. God is nectar. God is PREM. Supreme love towards God
is PREM. It is the greatest power on earth. It gushes from one's pure heart. It
redeems and saves. It purifies the heart. Devotion is the seed. Faith is the
root. Service of the saints is the shower. Communion with the Lord is the fruit.

Just as a fish cannot live without water, just as the sunflower cannot live
without the sun, just as the chaste wife cannot live without her husband, so
also a true devotee with PREM cannot live without God - even for a moment.

PREM is of the nature of nectar. It gives freedom to the devotee and makes him
perfectly and fully satisfied. It takes him to the feet of the Lord.

PREM is love of God as the servant of God. To serve God and to carry out his
wishes - realising his virtues, his nature, his mystery and his glory and
considering oneself as a slave of the supreme master - this is PREM. Serving and
worshipping the murtis (images) in the temples, sweeping the temples, meditating
on God and serving Him like a slave (mentally), serving the saints and the
sages, serving the devotees of God, serving the poor and the sick, is also
included in PREM.

To follow the words of the scriptures, to act according to the injunctions of
the vedas considering them to be direct words of God, is PREM. Association with
and service of love-intoxicated devotees and service of those who have knowledge
of God, is PREM. The purpose of this is to be ever with God, in order to offer
your services to him and win his divine grace and thereby attain immortality.

PREM is intense, concentrated, pure love of the Lord. PREM brings the devotee
face to face with the Lord. Bhakti culminates in PREM. It is pure nectar.
PREM destroys pains and sorrows. It makes one immortal and blissful and
peaceful. It is very difficult to describe the nature of PREM. You will have to
experience it yourself. Cultivate it through japa (repetition of God's name),
kirtan (chanting), satsanga (holy company), service of devotees and study of the
scriptures. Repetition of hymns and so on will instil in your heart peace, joy,
bliss. Sing the praises of the Lord daily to obtain the Lord's grace and dwell
in him always.

Educate your eyes to see God in all faces, to behold the divine form in all
beings. Educate your ears to hear the sweet melodious kirtans (hymns) of Lord
Hari. Educate your tongue to sing his praises and to utter pleasant, loving and
truthful words. Educate your hands to do charity and serve the poor. Educate the
mind to be cheerful always, to think of him always and to be calm. This is the
true path to develop PREM.

There is only one truth - God. And there is nothing else. The world is His
manifestation. All activities, happenings, doings, are His. All is He. This
world is ephemeral and a passing show, a phenomenon only for a time. There is no
individual existence. The individuality is simply imaginary, an ignorant
condition of the mind.

PREM is Pure love, a divine flame, ever brilliant, never exhausted. It is the
very essence
of pure love to be willing to suffer for the good of others, to place its
happiness in the happiness of others.

Love looks not with the eyes but with the heart. It is the crowning grace of
humanity. Love is indeed heaven upon earth. It casts out fear. Love your
neighbour as your own self. Love God with all your heart, mind and soul. PREM.


This, from a previous post, is what a sadhak who has experienced PREM would
think, ponder, sing, recite, and articulate:

O Father, let me never forget You. Oh compassionate One ! Let your sweet memory
always be with me. O kind-hearted, my Father, my Master, let me not forget You
even in my dreams. My Swami. While walking, eating, sleeping, let me only think
of You. In whatever I do may I always think of You. Your sweet sweet memories
ever remain. Please grace me with this remembrance. As the Gopis always
remembered their Lord Krishna . Whatever work they are doing, yet in their
hearts, in their minds is only Krishna.

Let not even a second pass without me remembering You. Let me think of You every
second. Let me never forget. Let me remember at all times. Like Bharatji said
that I want neither wealth, nor Dharma. nor salvation, nor fulfillment of any
desires - I just want the love of Your lotus Feet. At all times let me remember
only You. Let there be memory of only You. Even if Lord Rama himself thinks of
me as cunning, let my love for His feet never dwindle.

Let me have no other work. Let me never forget Your character, Your qualities,
Your love and Your grace that You shower on Your devotees, Your secrets, Your
pastimes, Your nature - let me never forget You. Whether they are friendly to
You or not, yet You continue to shower Your grace naturally. Like the sun needs
no effort to radiate and brighten the world, You need no effort to love, to
shower Your grace. Your love, Your grace, Your compassion are natural. With Your
grace, let me never forget You. I have no other desire or want. Only love for
Your lotus feet. I ask for it again and again. Let me remember nothing else - I
have no other work or want or desire. Only Your Love . With Your grace grant me
exclusive devotion. Let me be absorbed in your thoughts and nothing else. There
is no other desire what so ever. Even if there is a slight desire, may you get
rid of it. It is so easy for you to grant this and I will be blessed. I only
need your remembrance.

Let my mind and senses be focused only on Your lotus feet. Nothing else in this
world is mine - only You are. My mind is only for You - whatever comes in my
mind is only You, whatever I hear is only You, whatever I see is only You,
whatever I think of is only You, whatever I taste is only You, whatever I smell
is only You. Nothing else comes to any of my senses. Let me become mad in the
eyes of the world. No desire to live or to die or to work - only be with your
thoughts. Be situate in You.

You are my all. You are my only support. My mind is only absorbed at your feet.
You are my all. Let me forget myself - Who am I? Where am I? What am I? Only
your sweet memory. There is nothing else. Let me remember you all 24 hours - in
all situations and circumstances. Besides your grace I remember nothing else.
Not even in my sleep do I forget you. It is a simple straightforward thing for
you. I only desire Your remembrance at all times. Not even the slightest desire
for anything else besides Your remembrance and contemplation. I do not wish to
go anywhere, to do anything. Only that my mind remains attached to Your lotus
feet.

This is my only goal, my only desire, my only want, my only necessity - LET ME
NEVER FORGET YOU. My existence does not remain. I merge with You. Besides you
there is no one else. There is no one else that will come to help me, to support
me. Let me remain ever immersed in your remembrance. Grace me with this, such
that I never forget you. I remember that sweet sweet memories of you. Nothing
else is remembered. Not even food or drinks. Even in sleep, even while sitting
or running, let it be only you. Only you ! Let me be totally absorbed in Your
glories, in Your deep talks and nothing else. Let me become such that I don't
remember who I am, what I am? At all times, let there be only You. And let there
be no desire for anything from You. At all times, there is only sweet memories
of You. I have become useless to the world.

Hey Prabhu, O' Compassionate One! O' Merciful One! No other wishes. Not even to
live, not even to die, not even to enjoy, not to go anywhere. Only You. Besides
your association, nothing else is remembered. Let me become mad in your sweet
remembrance. Whatever I have is all yours. Besides you there is nothing else
that is my own. Let my mind be ever engaged in your lotus feet. Oh My very own !
There cannot be anyone else besides you that is mine, never was, and will never
ever be. You are my everything (Twameva maata...) My very own Prabhu, My very
own Father ! Nothing else is remembered. Not even the least bit of desire.. not
even to become a devotee, to become a lover. Only Your sweet memory. Wherever I
look up, down, sideways, all around, I see only you. Whatever I see, hear,
remember, do, smell, it is all You. Nothing else is there in the least bit,
besides You. Hey Naath ! Hey Mere Swami ! 24 hours, not a moment leaves without
your remembrance. It is You and You alone. Besides You there is nothing else.
This is my request, my wish, my aim, my goal.

Hey Mere Naath (Father), Let me never forget You. Let me become completely
absorbed within and without. Let me be totally immersed in You. No other work
has to be done. Let me become simply mad about You. Hey Narayana ! O' caregiver
of the wretched and the poor. Let me Never Forget You ! Narayana ! Narayana !
Narayana !   (By Swami Ramsukhdasji)

Ram Ram ,
Deosaran Bisnath
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
------
Dear Sadhak,

Love is found every where in human life.Love that is generally understood is
between families.This love is required to be diverted to love for almighty God
This is divine love which is required for seeking God

Tru;y  Yours

S S Bhatt

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
---



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Shree Hari Ram Ram

This brings closure to this topic.  Sister is satisfied with the responses.  
Gita Talk Moderators,  Ram Ram

-------------------------------------------

Hari Om,
I am reading the thoughts expressed by sadhakas here for sometime.I am a 55
years old lady, living alone and working for small children.
I have read Gita, Upanisad and many spiritual books, written articles on
positive thinking on world magazines, devoted myself in service for mankind.But
amidst all this I feel always lonely and seek love from others.Because of my
ethical approach to life I have not been accepted by people in my family as it
goes against their way of functioning in a easy give and take principle.I do not
compromise on truth.But I need love from those whom I have worked for or living
with like my maternal family members, my husband , my community whom I have
served for years.But it is only give and give situation for me which drains my
energy after sometime and I feel poor and empty from inside.I cannot accept this
kind of life for myself.Is it wrong to seek love and unconditional acceptance
from husband and family members to remain happy in life ?how I shall get love
from my own people to live my life.Arjuna had also this dilema in Mahabharata,
but got the guidance from Krishna.No doubt he won the war, but lost his sons and
his last life was not full of happiness. We ordinary human being who are trying
to live a good and happy life how to achieve that in places where we do not get
to join a satsang and written words do not inspire ! Please help.

sister

------------------------------------------------
Hari Om,
  Thank you very much for your help.It is really the voice of God, so pure and so
appropriate.I have found my God in all of you!
Sister


-------------------------------------------------

Shree Hari


Dear Sister Ram Ram!


Thanks for sharing your personal issue. It is great that you have read Gitaji
and Upnisads already. Ordinarily, in this world, it is not unusual to expect
love in return and not receive it.


For a true spiritual seeker true love means giving and giving only and not
expecting anything in return since expecting something back would make it a
business. Also, whatever we are doing for others, we are able to do with things
provided by God only and with nothing to claim as our own. Seva (duty or
Kartvaya) is supposed to be performed by a sadhaka as an act of Yajna only, not
seeking anything in return since doing things with expectation binds man
(Gitaji: 3/9). Therefore, do all actions only as an offering to God (Gitaji:
9/27, 18/46).


We have absolutely no control on others. It is not fair for us to expect from
others what they should do for us, they are independent to choose since we too
may not be delivering exactly what others want from us. Naturally they would not
do what we want them to do. Even at that if we simply do not insist on them to
return our love, they are more likely to return.


In the world, it is only the appearance of love but it is not true love, the
worldly love is mixed with selfishness and it is changing all the time. Why
should we beg from the world, the world does not have the capability to give
love consistently. True love can only be with God where it stays the same all
the time; we should demand it from Him only since we are His Amsha (Gitaji:
15/7).


In his discourses, Swami Ramsukhdasji explains what people have to deal with
into two categories:
1) Things which happen (HONA) in terms of situations, circumstances, getting
pleasure and pain etc., these are strictly based on Prarabhda, we are not
independent to choose, one therefore should joyfully accept things as they come.
We are receiving these because of our own Karmic package from past lives.  We
should not curse those who bring these to us but instead be thankful to them for
bringing these to us thereby helping us reduce our burden.

2).  In doing new actions (KARNA), we are independent in choosing whatever we
want to do-- good actions, bad actions, perform or not perform, perform them
diligently or carelessly etc., Swamiji Maharaj says we should be careful in
doing new actions using scripture as our guide (Gitaji: 16/24). In any case we
should not do anything which we know to be wrong.


Goswami Tulsidasji says in Ramcharitmanas (7 - 117 -1/2):


Iswara amsha jiva abinashi, chetna amala sahaj sukh rashi
so mayabasa bhayau gosai, badhyo kia markata ki nai


"The individual soul is a ray of Divine Consciousness, immortal, conscious,
untainted by Maya and naturally blissful. Such a soul, my Lord, has allowed
itself to be dominated by Maya and has been caught in its trap like a parrot or
a monkey."

For our true happiness nothing outside of us is needed (Gitaji: 2/55). We are
masters of our own destiny, therefore we should not depend on others for our
happiness!


|| Ram Ram ||


Humble regards,
Madan Kaura

=============================================

Love is the quest of each individual to join his complimentary personality,every
feeling for whom is an association in mind.Sacrifice and posessiveness are two
parameters of its yardstick.Eternal love of Radha and hatred of Kamsa have been
compared as two different forms of love,each directing itself towards Sri
Krishna.
subhashtewari

-------------------------------------------


-Shree Hari

Dear Sister Namaste!

You do these acts of service for whom? For you? I do not think so, the service
for mankind is service for The Beloved, it's in you soul, a divine expression of
your bhava; this understanding of selfless service not seeking reward is known
and admired across many cultures:

"The beginning of love is to let those we love be perfectly themselves, and not
to twist them to fit our own image. Otherwise we love only the reflection of
ourselves we find in them." Thomas Merton

4:20. Having abandoned attachment to the fruit of the action, ever content,
depending on nothing, he does not do anything Though engaged in activity.
22. Content with what comes to him without effort, free from the pairs of
opposites and envy, even-minded in success and failure, Though acting, he is not
bound.

Anywhere I see suffering, that is where I want to be, doing what I can.
Princess Diana

Luke 6:35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in
return; and your reward shall be great, and you shall be the children of the
Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Be good, be kind, be humane, and charitable; love your fellows; console the
afflicted; pardon those who have done you wrong.
Zoroaster

Can you not see Divine Sister, that all the love you would ever need is pouring
out of the Supreme Lord into your heart.

Stay blessed.

Om ... Shanti ...

Mike.

-------------------------------------------------

Material, physical dependence is a fact. There is interdependence.
But psychologically every one is self sufficient. One is under the illusion that
psychological discomfort can be undone or escaped by depending upon others. It
has to be borne, absorbed by the individual himself. In fact, when one does not
go for avoidance of this discomfort by consolations, explanations- it is
automatically absorbed.
To see psychological sufficiency is the key, is unalloyed enjoyment, is your
connection to the 'whole'.

Y V Chawla

----------------------------------------------
Dear Sister,
Namaskar!

By now, you might be satisfied with what learnt Sadaks on the forum have
suggested that Love and respect from anybody what to speak from spouse, children
or friends & relatives can/should never be demanded but earned. Even if by all
means and trial love is not reciprocated, refer to KARMANE VA ADIKARESTE.....
the theme and very famous Verse of whole B. GITA...and be only happy and
peaceful with your sincere action without any return expectations!!!

Sadak B.S. has very correctly put all your efforts for unconditional loving
others
with no return of love even from your family members to YOUR PAST KARMAS!!
Sister, see it is logical and easy to understand that "What we sow we are bound
to reap that only" and that is why some great person has said a proverb: "AS YOU
SOW SO SHALL YOU REAP!!!"

In view of above reality, it is logical to agree that those people whom you are
loving must have loved you in past lives and in this life now are getting return
as fruit and you have not loved your spouse, children and relatives etc., in
past lives and that is why you are not getting back love from them in return.
Thus, having firm faith in KARMA philosophy which, would help you to be always
happy and would help you not to get depressed when Love is not received back.
Rather, for all the return unpleasant fruits for your Dharmic actions in present
life YOU MUST THANK LORD THAT HE HAS HELPED YOU TO GET ERASED THE BALANCE OF
RETURN FROM PAST BAD ACTIONS FRUITS DUE TO YOU, IN PRESENT LIFE BY NOT PROVIDING
PLEASANT FRUITS!!!!!

Hope above elaborate explanation of Karma philosophy might help to remove your
dis-satisfaction from not receiving Love from near & dears!

Love and blessings from elder brother,

I am
(Kuldeep Kumar Kaul)

---------------------------------------------

Expectations - right or wrong?



Wanting certain response from others is NOT WRONG; it is but natural to anyone …
in fact, that is the only way anyone can ever know how to live! But alignment of
the same with wisdom remains crucial for the success :).



If you want something from others, YOU SHOULD DO WHAT THEY WANT ... NOT WHAT YOU
WANT! That is the rule of the game called society and nature. Nothing in the
universe would care to alter one's own agenda (nature) unless there is either a
threat or a boost for one's very existence. Therefore, you can get response of
your choice from others only by two ways: Threaten them or lure them! Either way
they see their benefits. When threatened, one runs to protect one's current
status. When lured, one runs to enhance one's current status.



The only way you get a favorable response from your environment is by aligning
yourself in its favor. That is the law of nature that nobody can trespass. For
example, never try to hallucinate of overpowering gravity by your command. If
you insist, you would hurt yourself ... you may even break your limbs, ribs,
neck and skull depending on the intensity of your insistence!!! On the other
hand, if you align your actions along with the gravitational force, you may
achieve many things that you would not dream of doing on your own. That is the
power of alignment - it derives synergy from the collective presence.



In your case, you may think that you are "giving" to others. It does not
necessarily mean they believe that they are "receiving" anything worthwhile from
you. In fact, they may even think on the contrary that they are presented with
some unwanted, annoying or threatening "gift" from you!! When they believe they
receive something worthwhile to them, they will definitely respond favorably to
you.



Threatening others also depends on others more than you! Unless others feel
threatened if they do not act as per your dictates, they will not respond in
your favor. In fact, if they find ways to threaten you back more than you can …
you are inviting their wrath rather than favor!! Therefore, you need to
calculate your power as against theirs and calibrate the same perpetually in
order to keep "winning" over others. Speculating on your background, you would
not want to entertain this path at all :).



But remember that the world is like a mirror - it religiously reflects the
sentiments with which you approach it. It may even exaggerate the sentiments
based on its own emotional baggage leading divergence in the associated
relations. If you threaten it ... you will be threatened! If you attempt to lure
it ... you will be lured!! The question remains, therefore, whether you are fit
to face the retaliated sentiments!!!



More importantly, it depends whether you could wield wisdom to bring in
convergence in the relation. Divergence brings in conflicts from around and
contradictions from within pitting the fellow into a perpetual fight. It
threatens the fellow in its immediate vicinity and flushes an anxiety of
potential isolation in distant horizons. Therefore, convergence in any relation
is the key to reduce the conflicts and the associated miseries from survival
perspective.



Remember, all relations could be gateways to LIBERATION, ABSOLUTE FREEDOM … if
you know how to make them converge. Convergence is also 2-sided just like its
nemesis, divergence. Instead of distancing the entities involved like divergence
would, convergence would bring the entities closer and closer. As differences
amongst them mitigate, the entities involved in the relation also would approach
their relative unity. UNITY is FREEDOM ... no more threats ... no more lures.
Therefore, every relation could be a gateway to the ultimate UNITY, Self
Realization as well from spiritual perspective.



Survival or Spiritual … it is wiser to stay with wisdom and strive to converge
upon our relations. Rather survival is just a subset of Spirituality; but,
remains the only gateway to anything in one's life. Therefore, survive wisely …
spirituality is the natural eventuality to a wise survival.



Respects.



Naga Narayana.
-------------------------------------------

In Nature there is a Law : Whatever you give, you receive. Whatever you don't
give, you won't receive. [It is not necessary that you will receive from the
person whom you give, that is why it is said that we receive from God.]
You or anyone is NO exception to this Law of Nature.
Humbly,
Saadhaka

-----------------------------------------------

It is quite difficult to answer this question without knowing your exact
situation.

Yes.. You need love. Accept that Krishna (God) loves you and you love Krishna.
People around you are Krishna's manifestations. Love them and accept love from
them. If people around you don't give you love, then be happy as you know that
the Supreme Lord loves you.

Yes.. You need happiness. Your self is beyond matter and is always happy. Accept
that your self is always happy. If you experience suffering or difficult
circumstances in your life, then don't sweat about them. Let go of external
circumstance (both happiness and unhappiness). Don't hold on to them as you know
that self is always happy and these circumstances are fleeting in nature.
External unhappiness and happiness both will come and go. You don't need to deny
external happiness. Be externally happy but don't attach importance to it.
Attach importance to your atma (self) which is eternal, full of knowledge and
happiness.

Yes.. You need companionship and don't need loneliness. First accept that
Krishna is always with you and He will always remain with you. So, you are not
lonely. Seek companionship of your husbands, kids and other family members
knowing that you are always with Krishna. Enjoy with them. Be happy with them
and give them happiness. See them as manifestation of Krishna and be happy in
their companionship.

Yes.. sometimes family and community drains our energy. But if you see that you
are serving Krishna within them, then they won't drain your energy. Now, you are
not working for them but for Krishna. At least, this attitude will drain lesser
energy. More you will apply it, more happier you will become.

It is our nature to seek love and unconditional acceptance from husband and
family members to remain happy in life. You cannot change your nature. There is
one person who surely gives you this. It is Krishna (God). Krishna
unconditionally loves you. So, accept that unconditional love. After this
acceptance, be happy with what you get. If your family members love you
unconditionally, then it is great. If they don't, accept it. You can't change
them. If you accept unconditional love of Krishna, I hope you will get from
others too. At least you won't be disturbed if you don't get it from others.

>> how to achieve that in places where we do not get to join a satsang and
written words do not inspire !

I read Swamiji's book Sadhan-Sudha-Sindhu. It is on the web. Whenever I have
time, I read this book on my phone. Since I read it on my phone, no one even
notices and I end up reading a lot. I might have even read some chapters more
than dozen times.

Before reading this book, I have attended many satsangs (more than 1000s). I
used to attend satsang twice a day and even lived in temple. But those things
did not advance me much. Reading this book is even better than those satsangs.
It goes to the heart and the teachings of Gita appear so simple and obvious.

At His feet in service,
G B

--------------------------------------------------

We all have to practice unconditional love, unconditional service, unconditional
acceptance of others/situations....to experience true happiness, peace,
love..... Words have power to transform if understood in the right context...

Conditions restrict our happiness or change it into unhappiness... Conditions
are nothing but strong desires expecting people to behave / situations to occur
in a certain way.... Try doing away with all conditions...to feel fulfilled,
feel the joy of service to others, feel the joy of giving.....world may change
entirely....best wishes

Sushil Jain

---------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Dear Sister, it is understandable dilemma for those in your situation.

You asked,"Is it wrong to seek love and unconditional acceptance from husband
and family members to remain happy in life ?"

Please know that happiness that depends on anything, either material things or
acceptance, or love from another, be that spouse, children, parents, friends, is
not happiness. It is a short term gratification of senses and mind, even when
obtained through such seeking. You already are experiencing emptiness, energy
drained out of you, etc., which is the proof of this dependency.
Problem is the dependency itself robbing you of freedom! It is precisely because
Happiness(Love) is not "yours" or "mine", it is Impersonal, not limited, and not
caused by a thing. Seeking gets you limited, giving up seeking gets total
freedom!

Just give up any such dependency in your understanding, and see what happens!
You will discover a great freedom from all seeking in a flash of understanding
that "personal seeker" is the problem.
We want to be loved because we don't love. If we do love unconditionally then we
cannot ask to be loved in return(it is condition). Please see this clearly. Be
one with your aches, pains and emptiness in total surrender! The more we fight
with such emotions more will be their power over us.

Besides, you are doing service to humanity, writing on positive thinking in
magazines, sticking to truth at all cost, right? These acts are rewards in
themselves, so, don't use them as means to bring Love and Happiness. Please
discover within that Love is the Whole, not a result of doing and expecting.

When you discover "me/mine", as the root cause of all dependencies arising out
of feeling lack within, you put an end to all seeking"!

Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt

-------------------------------------------------
By default heart is the well with spring of love. Love springs like swyambhu and
originate on its own. All hearts have that swayambhu called Love which only
originate to give. But then there are rocks and weeds covering this well unless
kept clean. These rocks and weeds are kaam, krodh, lobh, moh, raag, dwesh and
ahamkaar as mentioned in geeta.
One's effort or karma should be to work on keeping the well of heart clean, so
as the spring of love is unclogged and it comes out to give and only give.
Though it sounds easy, but its tough to practice.

One way to succeed on this cleansing exercise is to work for higher goals, to
work for god (what else can be highest goal then god itself), the goal of being
able to see that swayambhu always in that cleaned up well. Thats also one
definition of nishkaam karma.

While we do any act lets watch that the objective/goal remains to be clearly
able to see & feel that swayambhu called Love. Please don't expect the well to
get cleaned up overnight as this is not a magical pill. The skill of speaking a
language helps for 30 years of career. The skill of people management helps
probably 70 years. But Nishkaam karma is the skill, the art of living to be
learnt for this birth and beyond.

regds,
rakesh

------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhaka,



Namah Shivay



The only and only source of purest of the pure love, clearest of the clear
understanding and the realistic of the real bliss is the Satsang of Brahmnisth
shrotiya Saints.



You should only make every possible attempt for partaking in the Satsang so that
your needs become pure and come true.



Shubhamastu,



RAJINDER MOHAN VOHRA
----------------------------------------------

Dear Sister

My sincere appreciation for the good work you are doing for so long !!

God loves you for the good work you are doing and thats precisely why HE has
made you post your feelings here .
I have no doubt at all that the enlightened wise souls in this group will help
you transform into a very Happy Content cheerful and enthusiastic person who
will continue to do the noble service that you are doing .
I am receiving a lot of valuable guidance for my post here regarding finding a
Guru .

May I offer my humble thinking on this matter ??

Everyone and everything is the Lord . Believe firmly in this !! Say this to
yourself a 100 times a day for a 100 days or as long as needed to be carved like
a rock in your consciousness .
Then you will see that you are serving the Lord in all the good work you do !!

We need to be free of expectations and desires to be Happy and content .thats
another aspect you may consider . It frees us from the unpredictable behaviour
of others and never will we feel dissapointed .

So I request you dear sister to look upon God and God alone on whom to make all
your demands and expect nothing from any other perishable relationship of this
world .

May the wise and much respected souls here bring God's voice to you through this
group .
I wish you inner peace ,bliss and contentment .

Your brother ,

Hemant Jadhav
------------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

Why do you seek reciprocation/acknowledgment/ appreciation / fame (called 'love'
by you ) from those who you 'served' ? 'Service' means no expectations ! If you
seek love in return, how is it 'service' ? It is a trade/business then. You
praise me/notice me/acknowledge me/ appreciate me , and I do service to you
....this is business not service. This tendency/desire for 'love' is converting
a 'Rupee' into a 'chavanni' (25 paisa) ! In spiritual language it is seeking
peanuts...'Chavanni chhap desire' !!!

There was one 'yogi' (concentrating mind/body) ! He had amazing power of sitting
motionless for months. He once went to King and told him about his power to
concentrate. Kind got interested . Yogi said , I am sitting motionless here, you
can build a house upon me leaving only air space and I will remain motionless
till the construction is over. King agreed and asked him as to what he will take
for showing this power ! Yogi replied: ' Sir Ghoda Loonga, Ghoda' ( Sir I will
take one horse in reward) !!!

Seeking petty appreciation is akin to that 'Ghoda loonga' , Divine Sister. Leave
this desire ! Throw it away...MUJHE TUM SE KUCHH BHI NA CHAHIYE...!

Actually it is not 'giving' and 'giving' which is draining energy from you (as
claimed by you) , it is 'not being able to take' which is draining you. It is a
law: If you desire anything, you yourself have created obstacles into
fulfillment of the same. The 'poverty/emptiness' felt by you is due to that
desire ...and that desire only. Desire as a law creates 'deficiency' as soon as
it perks up/arises. Only that is deficient/poor/empty/beggar , who desires. If
you don't desire, where is deficiency/poverty/ emptiness ? THINK : What
difference will it make if somebody praises you or not praise you ? Horse is too
little a reward for that Yogi who can reach Paramatma if desire for horse goes.

There is one sitting at top called Paramatma...is He not watching you ? Focus on
Him..rather than on worldly people. If worldly people praise you, consider that
to be an insult. Get sad then, because it is then that your whole Rupee gets
exchanged for a petty 'chavanni' !!

Read also recent deliberations on this Divine Forum under a similar Q raised by
another Divine Sister like you...Saritaji !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

-------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadak,
Raga & Deuvesa (Likes and dislikes) are fruits of our past Karma. So it may be
necessary to know what that does. What you give and give is that which you took
and took. This earth is literally jail for Athuma. May be it God, if HE comes
here, the Karma role never leaves. You have family and have to perform Karma-
failing you will have to take another to complete. Just keep saying this Sloka
once a day, things will change as you said Arjuna seeked Sri Krishna so also you
can seek Sri Krishna.
NARAYANAL BHRAMA JAYATHE,
NARAYANAL RUDRO JAYATHE,
NARAYANAL INDRO JAYATHE,
NARAYANAL PRAJAPATHI JAYATHE,
NARAYANAL PRAVARTHANTHE,
NARAYANE PRELEEYATHE,
ETHA DRIDVETHA SRIRO DIYATHE.
If you need to pronounce correctly- kindly reply I shall mail the video of that
sloka.
B.S

-----------------------------------------------
Hari OM sister,
Even Bhakta Pralhad was not accepted by his father because he was a devotee of
God. So, it is probably not correct to seel love. Rather, one needs to give love
to all who accepts and not hate anyone, even the foes. Mere words and satsang
will not help. If you are so destined, you will change the course of your
thinking and stop worrying about not getting love and fair treatment from those
you loved, lived with and cared for. You will have a change of attitude and
perspective to one one of loving others without expectation of anything in
return. If one considers everyone and everything
as God's various forms and intensely love and submit to that thought and God,
all other negative thoughts of not being accepted and not being loved will go
away. Have trust in God and submit all your pains and suferings to his feet.
After all it is He who has provided for all your sufferings /disappointments.
Return all these to Him as your offerings and do not keep them in your heart and
mind. It is extremely difficult but that is the only way to love God and all his
forms. Just pray to God to give you the strength to ignore all non-acceptance,
non-recognition, neglect and that are inflicted on you by others. Do not
complain. Do not remember them. Forgive everyone all the time. Realise that you
are the Atman and no one can hurt you by non-acceptance, non-recognition or
neglect. Love is not for seeking
and getting: love is for giving away. As one gives love away, more love fills in
the heart. Give up the ego that you need to be loved and cared for, give up the
ego that gets hurt.
Basudeb Sen

-----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sister
Thank you for sending this question. It is amazing that your message could have
been completely mine as well except for writing in world magazines and age of
course. I am wory of writing articles. Thanks to these satsangas I have stopped
seeking acceptance from individuals around me. If they do it is devine grace.
Many a time we women do not know what our original nature and needs are. It need
not be the same as men or need not be subservient and never against. At the best
it should be complementary. Not knowing our nature, it is natural to get lost.
Saving grace is that we are able to articulate our doubts and seek help.
Examples will not give answers, but they definitely guide. Krishnaa(Draupadi)
was a princess herself, blessed with eternal beauty, had five great men for
husbands, Krishna for a brother and hugely experienced Pritha(Kunti) with her to
name a few. Yet she had to go through worst possible difficulties. Vasudhaiva
Kutumbakam thought helps me swim. As they say I may be alone but not lonely.
Watching/just looking at all the five senses as I go through my day has been
extremely helpful along with aasanas and pranayama.
Thank you
Veena

---------------------------------------------------
Reply to the sister who has made a appeal for guidance

To follow the right path first you must cut off all contact with those of your
relatives who do not love or respect you. Go to a ashram or old age home & work
there in return for being allowed to stay there. I promise if you follow this
you will find respect for the work you will be doing & also loving friends. Do
not tell your relatives where you are living otherwise they will come & trouble
you. Learn & do pranayam & also teach the others. This pranayam done 20 times in
the morning will show the right way
the meaning of pranayam is "om" but simply repeating the word om is not enough.
The breathing
Will lead you to the highest happiness
Best wishes
balbir singh

-------------------------------------------------------

Related Link:
http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net (english)
http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org (hindi)
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Shree Hari Ram Ram

ADDED A FEW UNPOSTED MESSAGES TO AN OLDER POSTING.  LAST ROUND BEFORE CLOSURE. 
RAM RAM

--------------------------------------------

Shree Hari  Ram Ram

There does not appear to be a word in English equivalent to"Vishwaas".  Per
dictionary "Vishwaas" is trust, faith, confidence, belief, reliance - all of the
above.   In Swamiji's words "Vishwaas" is that faith, confidence that - "
Bhagwaan (God) exists (IS) and that He is our very own, "

Please share your insights / understanding of "Vishwaas",  and understanding of
Swamiji's message, specifically that - 1) "Vishwaas" (trust, faith, confidence,
belief, reliance) 2) Relations and 3) Actions - all three of these should not be
opposing to our power of discrimination.  (in Hindi - Vishwaas, sambandh aur
karma, yeh teeno vivek virodhi nahin hone chahiye)      Gita Talk Moderators, 
Ram Ram

------------------------------------------

Jai Shri Hari

I agree with "Mr KrishnaJi" about the literal meaning of VISWAAS as "VI" (
vishisTa  i.e. special) + "SWAAS" (breathe). In my understanding, the way
breathe gives power to the body, the VISWAAS gives power/confidence to the
jeev/self.

The VISWAAS is generally used in two ways.1) To accept without any inquiry and
2) Feelings. It starts with the acceptance and builds the feelings which has a
potential to be converted into realization if it is associated with the
SAT/TRUTH (Gitaji 17/27).

We can see few of its usages in Maanas by Goswami TulasidasJi.
1)  a)       SADGURU VAIDYA VACHAN VISWAASAA |  SANJAM YAH NA VISHHAYA KAI
AASHAA ||  (Maanas: 7/122-3).
          Here, the suggestion is to accept (i.e. believe/trust upon) the
instructions given by Guru and Doctor.

       b)    "VINU VISWAAS BHAGATI VINU TEHI VINU DRAWAHI NA RAAM" (7/90A)
           Here also, GoswamiJi says "GOD can not be touched/realized unless one
accepts him and take refuge in him".

2)   MORE MAN PRABHU US VISWAASAA | RAAM TE ADHIK RAAM KAR DAASAA || (Maanas: 
7/120/8)
      Here, GoswamiJi is saying about his feeling that "Bhakt/Sewak/Devotee is
superior to RAAM (i.e. GOD)".

Regarding the alignment of VISWAAS, RELATIONSHIP, ACTION and VIVEK,  for the
truth-seeker, all four are used  to the attain the same supreme goal without any
contradiction though they work in different areas. ACTION an VIVEK are used in
the world to get rid of the attachment to the world as they are LAUKIK NISHTHA 
(Gitaji 3/3) whereas the VISWAAS is used to realize our true RELATIONSHIP with
our SUPREME SELF.  In my understanding, all of these help each other  too though
they work in different areas.

Thanks & Best Regards
Niteesh Dubey

------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sadhak,
                   There are long interpretations but as a practical reciter of
Bhgavata Gita, faith is considered equivalent to Vishwasa Please refer to 
Chapter  XVII  verses 1 and 2 for its further explanation.When we have deep
faith in God then he will bless us,not by arguing with his interpretations

Om Jaya Sri Krishna
I have faith in you
I have viswhwas in you
A re you satisfied

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt
---------------------------------------

Hari Om

With due respect to all and with all the humility at my command, I beg to state
that there is too much cereberal talk in these pages and very little practice.
Let us be at least good Karma yogis and surrender the fruits of our action to
the Lord.

Lord bless all.

Shivkumar Israni

-----------------------------------------


-------------------------------------------

What is Vishwaas? Thoughts on Vishwaas …

Vocabulary is just a tip of the iceberg. Even the apparently mundane word such
as "cup" is just a hint for what a cup would really be. We have developed so
much confidence (vishwaas) in the vocabulary that we use in our daily
transaction we develop a belief (vishwaas) that the names or words (Naama) used
are absolutely representative of the object that is referred to!

We try to trivialize the universe in terms of Naama (word), Roopa (image) and
Karma (action). We fragment the monolithic existence (Sat) into the illusive
fragments (Asat) in our imagination in terms of words, images and actions in our
mind and start insisting that the universe is a bunch of such fragments that we
could ever hoard in the junkyard of our memory. That is the precise reason why
the universe appears real ONLY AS fragmented (Dwaita), momentary (Martya) and
ever-changing (Jagat). The belief developed by the mind is so strong that it
takes extraordinary effort to convince the mind that what it sees as "real" is
actually unreal and "The Real" is what it is and what everything else is as far
as it stops projecting its randomly discrete images on its own infinitely
fractured screen to make up a belief of what the world "should be" in its own
framented vocabulary of words, images and actions.

But, yet, as the creatures that we are, we are helpless but to depend on the
very words, images and actions to appreciate our lives within as well as the
life around. Nothing wrong in being respectful to the Naama, Roopa and Karma as
far as the focus is on The Life rather than the pieces of information gathered
regarding the same in terms of the resulting vocabulary and imagery. To me
Viswaasa means "to be", the universal reality, THAT ABSOLUTE which encompasses
everything in the universe, which lives within everything in the universe, and
which remains the very basis for all our existence as well as awareness.

Vishwaasa is something that transcends all our notions and hence represents the
non-notional appreciation of anything. In other words, an absolutely objective
appreciation of the life as is with no taints of subjective vocabulary, imagery
and tendencies is Vishwaasa. In a way it represents the perfect union of Yoga,
Gnyaana and Bhakti - absolute essence of existence, awareness and experience.
Vishvaasa means the absolute integrity across ones body, mind and speech
(Kaayaa, Vaachaa and Manasaa) in ones appreciation of the life. Vishvaasa is
where all the conflicts, polarities and dualities in one's perceieved existence
are dissolved into the essence of all in absolute unison.

Respects.

Naga Narayana

----------------------------------------------

There is a great Shakespearean drama called Much Ado about Nothing.

This falls in the same category.

Is Guru equal to a Teacher ?

Is Vishvaas or Bharosaa equal to Faith or Trust ?

You can split this however you want and as many times----
but it means the one and the same thing, unless you are out
to prove that only Sanskrit based words have a full meaning !

D.  Mankikar,MD
--------------------------------------------

Vishwas (Implicit faith, being free of all doubts) mein hee Vish (poison) ka
Vaas (place where it lives) Hain.
This is what the world has proved

Shivkumar
--------------------------------------------
Vishwas means faith. In spirituality it means faith in God and your Guru.
Sambandh means relation and it means in spirituality your relation with God.
Karma means action and in spirituality it means good deeds performed without
hankering for the fruits of such actions. When you say that all three should not
go against vivek or the power of discrimination it means that the sadhak should
be such that his powers of discrimination should not clash against faith in God,
proper relations with the Parmatma and performance of good deeds.
Hari Shanker Deo

----------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING

Vishwaas ...........

silent  inner "knowing'" beyond intellect ................

the Gift of God

that invokes the  self to choose the self , with all the self

and, walk the Way

unto God's heart  ........................


AUM
  narinder bhandari

-------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Friends,

Vishwas is simple belief without investigating or experiencing.
It can have no basis and one can have false beliefs leading to false
experiences and evil deeds in in name of misguided beliefs. But shraddha or
belief after deep tapas or experience of the divine
consciousness is what is the true meaning of viswas. This is translated by the
word faith of an extraordinary kind which comes after deep reverence or bhakti
and becomes experiential. Thiswill lead to Self discovery.
Dr. Vispi Jokhi
PS Hope this is brief and well understood.
------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,
The exact meaning of Vishwas is "complete and implicit faith". Faith in what
good is heard, from saints, scriptures and God. Example: Sri Krishna said to
Gopies who wanted to cross the flooded Yamuna river to give food to Saint
Durvasa, "Oh gopies, tell the river that I (Sri Krishna) am Nitya Bhramachari
(Eternal Celibate) and the river will part ways to let you cross it". Gopies
laughed first but having "Vishwas" in Bagavan they told the river Bhagwaan's
words with whole heartedness, and the river DID part to let them cross over to
the other side.
B.Sathyanarayan

---------------------------------------------

Dear Ones Namaste!
I see vishwaas being more potent than belief, the former has experiential
knowing as its base, the later may be based on tradition one is born into, or
someone in whom one has Vishwaas, trust, tells one to believe. Ultimately belief
needs to resolve in knowing beyond any shadow of doubts to be Vishwaas! I can
understand belief playing a role in spiritual practice. But one must go beyond
it to know first handed by looking into one's own experience specially in
spiritual matters, and God realization.

Belief cannot be called Anubhuti(Self-Realization), however, vishwaas is rooted
in Anubhuti. Realization is one's own Anubhuti. In practical life belief and
vishwaas are used interchangeably, but in spiritual context, it is not
equivalent in my view.
God is anubhutirupah, He is wordless inner experience of Impersonal Conscious
Presence(God), verbalized/conceptualized for seekers and scriptures! Thus, God
is not a  matter of belief, rather, is a matter of knowing, experiencing. It is
Awareness aware of Awareness Itself shredding all identifications with
objects(notions, beliefs, ideas, concepts) liberating Itself from them!
It is like waking up from the waking dream!
Put in another way, God is "experiencing" itself present in all experiences,
itself remaining constant, and attributeless, not to be experienced as object of
perception or conception!
When we say God is beyond knowledge, it means He is unknowable as any other
object of the world by mind and sense organs which only conceive and limit
objects. However, God is Limitless, Perceiving Subject itself, Experiencing
itself, knowingness itself, Being itself, and is our own inner continuous
experience right now. He is not knowledge, rather Knowingness behind all
knowledge! He is shining as all bodies, all minds! He is Impersonal
Intelligence, Beauty in nature, Love,  Compassion, Peace and Harmony, and deep
abiding Silence in emptiness!
And this is my Vishwaas!
Namaskar.....Pratap Bhatt
---------------------------------------

Viswas is the great and strong belief on the guru vakya.Through viswas only the
curtain between the guru and shishya becomes non -existant.It is the key to open
the storehouse of guru
Badri Narayana Miriyala

-----------------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,
"VISHWAS"?. One has to be faithful to Guru and Sri Govind. One has to be
faithful to sastras. One has to be faithful to his wife/husband/children as Sri
Rama. One has to be faithful a friend like Sri Krishna to Kuchela. One has to
faithful to pancha boothas water by offering water to plants, by serving foods
to birds/animals, being faith to agni by doing agni hotri. Faithful to earth by
keeping earth clean, faithful to Aakash (Sky) by not poluting Etc. And faithful
to ones own mind by being having pure thoughts for loka kalyan, faithful to body
as a temple where Bagavan abides by not eating non-veg and not drinking alcohol,
Etc. This vishwas leads one to divinity. Many saints fell when faith was lost. A
small thought for a second is enough in serious trouble, "Whether God exit or
Not". Some saints arose to heaven when they were having Vishwas even in most
serious situations. Like Baktha Gora trampled his child in mud by mistake, but
remained firm on Sri Vital. Bagavan sent flying object (Pushpaka Viman) to Sri
Tukaram. He had faith and he went to Vaikunt. Where as his wife had no faith in
her husband words, remained on earth. Jesus asked the man who saw Jesus walking
on water, to come to HIM. The man thus walked and reached Jesus, but drowed when
he thought "What if I drown". Abosolute faith. Faith can move mountains is
proverb.
B.Sathyanarayan
------------------------------------------------------

=====================

PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

VISHWAS means BELIEF ! Other words frequently used in Scriptures are : Faith ,
Shraddha, Trust, Acceptance, Reliance for this BELIEF ! "To believe" is one of
the ONLY three powers which JEEVA has ! JEEVA has powers of 1. To do something:
2. To know something and 3 To believe something. Apart from these three powers
JEEVA has no powers. As against these three powers , Jeeva has 3 desires to
fulfill. 1 To do something. 2 To know something 3 To get something.
JEEVA uses Power to "do something" in Karma Yoga and thereby Jeeva DOES that
after doing which nothing remains to be done …the very desire "to do"
extinguishes. Jeeva uses Power to "know something" in Jnana Yoga and thereby
Jeeva KNOWS that after knowing which nothing remains to be known. Jeeva uses
Power to "believe something" in Bhakti Yoga and thereby GETS that after getting
which nothing remains to be got…the very desire to get something extinguishes
!!!
Coming to observations of Param Shraddheya Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj
regarding Power of Belief; Doing and Knowing (sambandh) not being opposed to
Viveka :

It is an old habit of Jeeva that where it should place Faith .. He tries to
"know" ( Who is God? How is He? Is He there? How does He look? Proof ? What is
my "sambandh"- connection? ) And where he should "do" or "know" ( The world/
Jeeva ) he believes !! Religion, particularly Sanatan Dharma, and Saints like
Swamiji let you use these powers correctly.

Swamiji therefore wants here to place your POWER OF BELIEF correctly. Why?

Because, it is observed that Jeeva mostly MUST believe to begin with. Take for
example… Who is our this birth Father? What kind of knowledge we can claim to
possess as to who is our father of this birth? Hence we have no choice but to
"believe" ! Later on, as one becomes older …his walking/talking style' mannersm
etc tend to become like that of his father and they become so apparent that
people start guessing that he must be son of Mr So and So !! Same is the case
with Paramatma. You don't have any choice except to "believe" in His existence
and in His being yours. (Sambandh/ Connection) Later on, by His Grace …your
belief gets strengthened and you REALISE Him.

Now out of habit we place vishwas with reference to world. Regarding your belief
that "I am of world; world is mine" (connection/sambandh) .. Swamiji wants you
to use Viveka ! BUT NOT for - " I am of God; God is mine", because here Viveka
has no role, Vishwas has a role.

Basically, Power of " To know" something and "to do something" CAN ONLY be
exercised with reference to the world and Jeeva …these powers have no role in
God Realisation. Power "to believe something" is with reference to Paramatma ,
who is BEYOND KNOWLEDGE ! The power of belief is exercised therefore at those
places where Jeeva has no direct knowledge available to him.

"Vishwas" or "Belief" can not be called to be "anbhooti" or "experience" by any
stretch of imagination. Belief in fact is placed by Jeeva…without any direct
experiential knowledge. But, if placed correctly …"belief" tends to become
"knowledge" !! In the beginning…as stated "belief" is applied where there is no
reach of "knowledge" and hence "belief" and "knowledge" are exactly reverse to
each other.

In fact whenever Jeeva places "power of belief " with reference to the world....
WITHOUT applying discrimination ... he ultimately gets cheated .. his belief
invariably gets broken.. Unless he negates (discriminates) ! Reason: Power of
belief is exercisable with reference to Divine. (I am of God; Only God is mine;
THIS IS VISHWAS Nothing else is mine- THIS IS VIVEKA) ! When Taat Shree
(Swamiji) stated VISHWAS should not be opposing to Viveka - He meant "Mere to
Girdhar Gopal" (Vishwas) should be accompanied with "Doosaro no Koi" ( Viveka)
!! Meaning as Miraji Dass said "it should be DOUBTLESS !! How beautiful ! How
deep !! How Great !!! This is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj for you, Divine
Sadhaks ! This is Divinity !! This is SAT !!!

The world and Jeeva are subject matter of 'knowledge' (and hence of Viveka) and
God is subject matter of 'belief ' (Acceptance/Shraddha/Trust/Vishwas) !
Similarly , the power "to know" or "to do" if applied with reference to
Paramatma become futile. (Also "viveka" too is futile- Refer Swamiji: Where
there predominance of Viveka there is no belief) ! Hence these two powers are
useful in getting "disconnection from world "ONLY , while power to believe is
useful in getting "connection with Paramatma" ! "Sambandh" in Hindi means
"connection" in English !!!

Indeed, where is belief if there is doubt? (Right You are Miraji Dass, as always
) ! "Viveka" discriminates ! Viveka doubts/eliminates and gets you knowledge in
the end... Makes you doubtless ! Vishwas starts with doubtlessness and never
looks back !! Thus, Where is doubt if there is knowledge? Where is Viveka if
there is Vishwas? Where is Vishwas if there is Viveka? Where is experience
(anubhooti) if there is belief ? Where is belief if there is knowledge ? Where
is knowledge if there is no experience ?

It is only the Grace of God (BG 7:21/17:2) which IN THE END converts "belief"
into "experience" or "knowledge" ! Sure.. ultimately, upon God/Self Realisation,
belief, experience, Viveka and knowledge ALL become ONE ! But not before
God/Self Realisation !! Hence for Sadhaks : Belief (Vishwas) and Knowledge
(Viveka) are two extreme poles- two independent ways !
AT ONE PLACE IT IS VISHWAS ! AT OTHER PLACE IT IS VIVEKA!!

There is so much to write on the topic.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Shree Hari   Ram Ram

Sadhaks ... PLEASE REMEMBER ...... BREVITY !!!!  It is a great loss... when a
sadhak unsubscribes only due to long postings.... PLEASE REMEMBER !!!   Gita
Talk Moderators,  Ram Ram

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
Vineetji and Meeraji have expressed beautifully the meaning of "Vishwaas"!
That knowledge which is experiential leaves no doubt whatsoever, and has power
to act through us! We may call it "Viswaas or Shraddha or trust, conviction, etc
which drive all our actions. Discrimination is inherent in such actions!

However, we use term "Vishwaas" or trust in our daily relationships with people
meaning that we either trust or don't trust people. Actually we really never
trust others, we trust "image" of others we have stored in our minds!
We also have our own image-me in the same mind and so in reality it is "image-me
trusting image-others" which unfortunately passes for relationship!
  Even when we say we have vishwaas or trust or shraddha in God, it may still be
our image of God, based on acquired information about God and driven by desires
and fears!
As we move toward experiential knowing of God from such superficial knowledge of
God, discrimination happens automatically, and terms like Vishwaas, Trust ,
Shraddha take on extra-ordinary meaning for us! Images are replaced by true "I"
and true "others", and actions in relationships come alive!
Ultimately when one deeply understands beyond a shadow of doubt what one is, it
is this "understanding" that acts, not a person. God is just another name for
such Understanding.
With such understanding-anubhuti-realization, you trust God only, in all your
trusting and vishwaas!
Namaskar.....Pratap Bhatt

---------------------------------------------------

1. Vishwas is the understanding and practice, in daily life, of the Truth that
nothing in this Creation is independent and free and yet they are nothing but
the seen or unseen forms of the same, ultimate Creator.

In the spiritual context, the English word for Vishwas is Realization:
realization is nothing but trust, faith, belief, reliance, confidence and
acceptance without any doubt or question that anything less than realisation is
the bondage of illusion and ego.In other words, Vishwas is beyond the existence
and absebce of Abishwas.
2. Paratma is beyond description. Description of Paratma will always be
partially correct. The scriptures therefore describe Paratma in various, but
mutually non-conflicting ways. Such descriptions help the process of
understanding the concept of Paratma and reflect the Truth that in whatever way
one may describe Paratma, one cannot be wrong but one would still fail to fully
explain what Paratma is. Paratma is what one realises when all things, concepts
including the idea of atman and Paramatman just disappear from separate
existences..
3. True Vishwas is the state free of even vishwas and avishwas: When one reaches
the point that fails to distinguish between the concepts of avishwas and vishwas
(see1 above).
4. Vishwas is beyond Vivek, Vichar and ignorance: it is the Viswarjan of the
Self as an identity.
Basudeb Sen
-----------------------------------------------------
Respected Sir,

This word VISHWAS has troubled me for many years.  Kindly let me know as to
"Does the word
VISHWAS have any relation to the word SHWAS (Breathing) ? Because while writing
in hindi, the spellings appear to have a relation with each other but the
meaning as far as my knowledge goes is unrelated. Pl enlighten.

Man Mohan Batra
-------------------------

  Fellow learners,
Visvaasaha (you call it Vishvaas) is "vihita or visihta Svaasaha that is
elevated or exalted breath. Here breath should not be understood as merely
intaking and exhaling air into the lungs. For the seeker of the Truth Which is
one, but different people percieve it differently, the knowledge however little
it might be of the Truth gained (Inhaled) and the consequent action (Karma)that
eschews out, meant for universal welfare (chikeershuh Loka sangraham cf. 3.25,
Gita) is exhaling. Visvaasah is the combination of this Inhale and exhale.
It is true that in several non Indian languages this word does not exist with
the same aphoristic tenor. Belief, Faith etc may describe a part of Visvaasaha;
but cant be complete. Confidence is no where near Visvaasaha. Confidence is more
of secret sharing. It has Latin origin. Con means with and fidence is a
derivative and relative o fidelity.
Our mistake is that we try to find synonyms of all words in Sanskrit in western
languages. I explained the incompatibilty of Sin and Paapa. Sanskrit is a
language born out of the dire necessity to coin words for certain phenomenon
that
can or could not be described by existing languages. Thus words (some)in
Sanskrit can not be equvalently translated into other languages. I can give
several examples. but that will make the posting dreary.
Finally, Hela in Sanskrita is Hallow (how close sounding they are). As the
westerners have a habit of not letting out air through the mouth while talking H
is not pronounced as Hakaara. Hence Hela become Ela or with the halanta (ending
with consonant habit) it become El (in Hebrew it is the shining God), Elahi is
also from Hela.
I asked a friend to write Soola Mana in Arabic and Hebrew. The result was
Suleiman! Surprised. Do not be for me it was anticipated.
Krishna
-------------------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

In English what is called,  I do not quite know.  However, in Hindi,  "Vishwaas"
is not just a word, rather it is "anubhooti",  experiential knowledge,  a
realization,  by which the individual experiences within that which he is unable
to express in any words what is it that he is experiencing.   Now,  he is unable
to express in words, how much "vishwaas" (faith, belief, trust, reliance,
confidence) he has on  "God IS" (Bhagwaan Hai) .   For example you may say to
someone "I am thirsty",  the other person gauges this thirst by his own
experience, and says I have understood how thirsty you are.

"Vishwaas" (trust, faith, confidence, belief, reliance) 2) Relations and 3)
Actions - all three of these should not be opposing to whose power of
discrimination?  It must not be opposed to your own power of discrimination, and
only you can know whether your faith, relations and actions are opposed to your
power of discrimination or not.   What can someone else tell you about this.

So be it,

Vineet Sarvottam

--------------------------------------------------------------

Shree Hari   Ram Ram

Only addressing the first part,  Swamiji has said that "Vishwaas" is that in
which one has no
doubt whatsoever.  Where there is not even the slightest possibility of a doubt
arising.  "Vishwaas" is free of all doubts, from the very beginning.  Whereas,
inquiry (seeking to know,  jnana marg) is on those things where there is some
element of doubt.

Meera Das,  Ram Ram

--------------------------------------------------------------------



Vishwas comes only after one has surrendered (that is, mind has touched zero
ground).
Without touching zero ground, vishwas is simply an ego trip, a mental comfort.
Y V Chawla

---------------------------------------------------------

: Shree Hari:
Ram Ram

28th October, 2009, Wednesday, Karthik Shukla Dashami

Question:  If no one is able to describe Paramatma (God), then the description
of God that is given in the scriptures and by words of Saints, how can we be
sure that it has a meaning, significance or purpose?

Answer:  If one engages in their spiritual disciplines, as described in the
scriptures,  then Paramatma will be surely realized, thus those descriptions are
useful.

Question:  How can our "vishwaas" (trust, faith, confidence, belief, reliance)
in Bhagwaan (God) become "drdh" (fixed, firm, unyielding, solid and strong)?

Answer:  By giving up "vishwaas" (trust, faith, confidence, belief,
reliance)that are opposing to our power of discrimination, our "vishwaas"
(trust, faith, confidence, belief, reliance) in Bhagwaan will become unyielding,
firm and fixed.

1) "Vishwaas" (trust, faith, confidence, belief, reliance) 2) Relations and 3)
Actions - all three of these should not be opposing to our power of
discrimination.

1) Believing and relying on the world, is "belief" that goes against our power
of discrimination (vivek).
2) Considering the world as ours, is "relations" that goes against our power of
discrimination.
3) Doing actions that are contrary to the ordinance of the scriptures or doing
actions with desire for fruit are "actions" that go against our discrimination.

"Vishwaas" (trust, faith, confidence, belief, reliance) does not lend strength
to one's discrimination "vivek".   Where there is predominance of discrimination
"vivek",  there is no belief, faith, trust, reliance etc., and where there is
predominance of faith, trust, belief etc., there is no vivek "discrimination". 
One must only ask for "vishwaas" (trust, faith, confidence, belief, reliance) in
front of Bhagwaan (God).  Besides vishwaas (belief, faith, trust) there is no
need to ask for anything else.  Vishwaas (Faith, Belief, Trust) is instrumental
in Love.  In having "vishwaas" (faith, trust, confidence, belief) - " Bhagwaan
(God) exists (IS) and that He is my very own, "  one develops love.

From "Prashnouttermanimaala"  in Hindi pg 66 by Swami Ramsukhdasji

Ram Ram

For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net
For full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org

-------------------------------------------------------

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Shree hari Ram Ram

This brings closure to this thread.   thank you all!
Ram Ram

------------------------------------------

Respected Sir

Jai Shri Ram

In Chapter 7, Bhagwan says that Nothing is beyond Him," Mattah Pertaram Naanyat
- - - Sootre Maniganh ev".
In Ram Charit Manas, Bhagwan Shankar says "Hari byapak sarvata samaana, Prem te
prakat hoi main jaana"

What exactly is meant by " Prem ". We do talk about prem routinely but when this
chaupaai crossed my mind i could exactly know or understand the meaning of
"Prem". This means
that Prem is the key to realise Him who is there everywhere. Now that I have
found the key, I do not know the meaning of Prem. Please help me with meaning of
PREM. I believe that I am very close now.

Man Mohan Batra

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

The PREM referred in Scriptures actually arises after Liberation. Actual PREM is
different than the attraction which we see commonly say between a dog and a
bitch indulging in physical union. PREM is never seeking anything. It always
gives. There is not even a shadow of expectation of any reciprocation from the
other. It is essentially ONE SIDED. In PREM, the sight does not move from one
target at all. There is just one thought...there is no worry for any
surroundings. RADHA (Prem) is not some gender ! It has nothing 'physical' !

Example of real PREM is Gopis. Those Gopis never sought anything from Krishna.
They never 'made up' themselves, they just ran as they were, listening the sound
of flute. There was no dressing/make up...ran AS IT IS. Gopis there renounced
all margas (paths) including arya path even. Uddhavji said: "May I get the sand
touching feet of those Gopis. Let me become grass beneath the feet of Gopis."

That PREM , Divine Sadhaks, arises after Liberation and increases only. Prem
neither reduces nor ends.

Aatma naam( own name), Guru naam(name of Guru), Ati kripanasya naam( name of
very miser person), ati paapi's name (name of vilest siinner), wife's name (name
of spouse), eldest son's name( name of son)- these 6 names are not uttered by
wise and knowledgeable. Sukdevji Maharaj never took/uttered the name of RADHAJI
in Bhagvatam. Why? He considered Radhaji as GURU ! What is Radhaji ? Only
unadulterated pure PREM !

Once somebody asked why there is always a talk of Krishna-Rukmiini wedding...why
not of Krishna-Radha wedding? A Bhakta said: For marriage two persons are
needed. Radha/Krishna are not two. They are ONE ! That is PREM !!!

Actually PREM only God does, a bhakta only can do 'mineness' ! Of a PREMI Bhakta
, there is no independent existence. There is ONLY God existing. The non-duality
(advait) in Prem inspite of being one, is two and instead of being two is one !
Hence PREM is ANIRVACHNEEYA ( beyond words/description).

PREM is beyond Liberation/Kaivalya/ Self Realisation/ God Realisation ! One who
does not get satisfied by Liberation gets PREM ! It does not come to you by
VIVEKA, it arises in you by VISHWAS (faith) !

Eligible for PREM: Liberated Mahapurushas...ONLY !!!

PREM is final frontier for a human. There is nothing beyond Prem. The
experiencer of JNANA is only Self, but the experiencer of Prem is Paramatma
Himself. God is not hungry for Jnana but of Prem. After liberation, a Jnani gets
satisfied but not Bhakta ! Final thing therefore is not mukti (liberation) but
Prem ! In Prem there are two states: One- When Premi drowns in Prem so much that
he (Premi) and God (Beloved/Premaspad) become one . Two- When Prem reaches such
a peak, that for Leela the Premi and Premaspad become two. Actually they both
are 'indivisible' !

'Ever increasing' trait comes because of 'yoga' (union) and 'viyoga'
(disconnection) in Bhakti ONLY. If there is always YOGA, never VIYOGA, as is the
case in JNANA, the Prem- Ras does not increase, it remains unchanged and
similar. In Prem the sentient element becomes sometimes lover and sometimes
Beloved. In the highest of adverse states, the Prem increases to its peak,
because the very form of Prem is EVER INCREASING !!!

THERE IS NO OTHER WAY OF GETTING PREM EXCEPT MINENESS WITH PARAMATMA ! You don't
get Prem by any other means even by Yagya, charities, austerities, pilgrimages,
...nothing except by accepting - MERE TO GIRDHAR GOPAL, DOOSARO NA KOI !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
-------------------------------------------------

Fellow learners,
Prema (I prefer vowel ending or ajanta) is the expression of Priyatattva or
being priya. But Prema or Love a sit is translated has to be classified into at
least two categories. One is the feeling of Priyata to Prakritik objects and
sentiments. Mother's love to children and the other way is an example of such
Prem. Less noble is the love between a male and female. such love or Preeti is
caused by Prakritik factors. What I love you may not. This type of Love or Prema
is individual specific, not universal. But the problem is that this isa the only
Prem Human can feel and realize. In this type of Prema or Love, there is always
an expectation. One loves his mother as she does so manythings to her children,
A male loves a female, you know for what. In fact this Prem also gives rise to
hatred. I love something and I hate the person harming that object. I love my
country and hence I hate people who come across the border and explode bombs in
my country. So, Prakriti generated love or Prema is necessarily a twin of
Hatred.

The second type of Prema is the one not generated by Prakritic factors or the
Triguna. It is Triguna ateeta. Here the Love or Prema is directed towards just
one object, which is beyond the influence of Prakriti. At the same time Love to
this single object has to manifest into Love to an uncountable infinity of
elements of the single objects creation or manifestation. In this Prema, Hatred
is thus absent or banished. Which Object to hate after all every object is the
replica of that single object. Can you love a person but hate his or her little
finger and cut it off?. So the second type of Prema hates nothing. It also
follows as a consequence, that such love demands nothing fromthe object loved.
In this state of Prema the welfare of every object is desired and the
destruction of any element is unwanted. For this feeling Prem is insufficient
word. This is Bhakti.
Going to a temple and doing pooja to th eidol there, demanding some goody like
seat for you son in MBBS is business, neither bhakti nor Love of second type.

Languages are formed by humans with no idea of Bhakti. Hence, the word Bhakti is
available in Sanskrit alone. Devotion is not Bhakti. tell yourself can be
devoted to job, children, gardening and so many otherthings; but in Bhakti you
cannot distribute it to more than one object, uynless you find all objects in It
and in It all objects. Thus in literature Love is used for Bhakti. It is a pity
that we Indians also use the same insufficient word Prema or Love to describe
the second type of Love. In anothe rland, the land of Israel, or Turukhye, wher
eSt. Paul taught, he was handicapped by lack of proper language and used Love
for Bhakti. Please read the following passage with Love replaced by Bhakti and
find any  difference.
Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant or
rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it
does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things,
believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things

Krishna

-------------------------------------------------


The secret of prem in spiritual context is that
when one realises the stage of
kaivalya
or
oneness
it leads to mutual understanding,peace,togetherness;
lack of mutual hatered,lack of mutual disrespect,misunderstanding,differences or
simply love for all.

Dr. Puneet Gupta

------------------------------------------------
Prema … the surest gateway to THE BLISS …



To a true seeker everything can indicate THE TRUTH alone, nothing else. But
there are certain emotions that reveal the universal presence to an individual.
It is called JOY. One would loosen up one's self-proclaimed identities instantly
to be … to just be ... when overwhelmed by joy, whatsoever the reason for it
could be. Unfortunately, the fellow does not realize the true cause for JOY -
ABSENCE OF IDENTITIES; instead, one starts believing the medium that enabled one
to attain the state as the prime cause. The individual is thus mislead by one's
ignorance and the associated lopsided observance to believe that the apparent
trigger that let the fellow experience it to be the true cause for the joy.



The fellow develops acute dependence on the substance or instance that triggered
the experience for the joy. The ignorance drives the ignorant fellow into an
addiction toward the perceived substance or instance instigating the fellow to
crave for it more and more. The gullible fellow does not realize that the very
crave is the pain rather than the lack of the craved substance or instance. The
pain of experienced as well as anticipated separation (Viraha Vedana) of the
craved objects and relations kills the fellow from within. The objects and
relations would show no indication of any empathy or sympathy toward the
fellow's pain within! As they show their own lack of availability due to their
own natural scarcity and short existential span, the fellow suffers more and
more. The separation is certain for everything that joined once! Therefore, one
who depends on the "yoga" (existential association/conjugation) ought to face of
the wrath of its separation eventually. Threatened by the anticipated
separation, one would strive hard to sustain ("kshema") the conjugation as far
as possible. One's very disposition toward the "kshema" is the pain!



Prema (love) is one emotional notion one develops toward anything that supports
one's sustenance and enhances one's joy within. Anything that helps one to reach
one's very roots is acknowledged with gratitude knowingly or unknowingly. Again,
mislead by the ignorance within, one would depend on relations that enabled the
sentiments within and end up in a relational addiction (Mamakaara).



One ought to realize THE FACT that being oneself is the TRULY JOYFUL STATE ON
ITS OWN. Only then the Mamakaara retracts its tentacles spread around one's very
existence and eventually retreats to let the person free of all the emotional
bondage. Then what is the hurdle?! Let me just be!! Sooner than one takes this
position, one looses the same from within. The fellow from within gushes out
seeking the world again and again. Till the separation of one's individual
existence from the rest of the world, this will happen and this ought to
happen!!! The ego being incapable of fathoming itself in others, suffers the
worldly separation due its own insistence on its independent existence!!!



Prema is one of the surest gateways to UNIVERSAL PRESENCE as it enables an
individual to see oneself in another entity naturally. An instinct is built-in
all the living beings to see oneself in one's dear ones - offsprings, spouses,
parents, friends, society, etc. One would instinctively react the same way when
one's dear-ones are treated as oneself is treated. This gives a golden
opportunity for a spiritual seeker regarding the RELATIVE UNIVERSALITY of THE
SELF in a first-hand experience. The very understanding purifies the very
emotion toward a deeper and deeper appreciation within eradicating the
insistence of separate individual existence in the relation and eventually with
the whole universe, if pursued. When the very notion of cessation is eradicated
categorically, one dissolves in THE ONE that ever IS. Then how can there be any
room for any emotions of conjugation (Moha) and separation (Shoka)???!!!



Yasmin sarvaaNi bhootaani aatmaivaabhoodvijaanatah |

Tatra ko mohah kah shokah ekattvamanupashyatah ||



As love for anything deepens its purity within, it becomes PREMA. As the
fragrance of Pure Love (Prema) spreads around it becomes Devotion (Bhakti). As
the Purity of Devotion absorbs the fellow from within one submits one's very
individuality completely (Mano Naasha). At the same time, as IT surrounds the
fellow from around, one revels one's universal presence AS IS and AS EVER (Aatma
Bodha). THE BLISS OF ABSOLUTE TRUTH ALONE REMAINS ... AS IS AND AS EVER ...



|| Hari byapak sarvata samaana, Prem te prakat hoi main jaana ||



Indeed, LIFE spreads itself in perfect balance all through the universe and IS
well expressed in terms of LOVE that sustains the integrity thereof. LOVE is the
most apparent existential aspect that takes us to Shreehari, The Bliss,
instantly. Only what is left for us to do is to SEE HIM THERE.



Respects.



Naga Narayana.

--------------------------------------------

Radhey ! Radhey !!

In the pure 'svaroop' (self) there is a natural attraction towards Paramatma of
which it is a part/fragment- that attraction/liking is called Prem. When that
Self forms affinity with world, Prem gets dominated and 'kaam' arises. So long
as 'kaam' remains in you (so long you are bound/not liberated), PREM does not
awaken/arise. Prem is sans relative increase, deterioration and fulfillment.
Only Prem is that element, where there are no divisions. In Prem all become one.
In Jnana, there is no elemennt division,but there remains opinion division.

When you become totally desireless, then in you Prem arises spontaneously and
effortlessly. There then takes place a divine flow and exchange between lover
and the Beloved ..in Yoga there is thought of Viyoga, and in Viyoga there is
remembrance of Yoga...this flow continues for aeons. You forget as to who is
lover and who is the Beloved.

'Only God is mine' - by this acceptance, there arises effortlessly Prem in you
for Bhagwaan. Where there is Prem, it is a law, there is continuous automatic
remembrance of the Beloved.

In liberation, there is AKHAND ANANDA (indivisible bliss) ; in Prem there is
ANANT ANANDA (unlimited Bliss) ! Prem is the LAST SIDDHI of Bhakti. There is no
independent existence of Premi (Lover) only Paramatma exists (Naarad Bhakti
Sutra- 41)

Radhey ! Radhey !!

Nisha Chatterji

------------------------------------------------

Prem means unconditional surrender with implicit faith in HIM and HIS deeds.
That is all. Love and Love alone.... P. Gopi Krishna

------------------------------------------------------------

Pure Love by Swami Bhoomananda Tirtha

The mind and heart in us, not the body, are the mirror to reflect Truth.
Therefore, make them pure and fine, more and more so every day. For that, they
should be nourished and treated properly. Nothing other than pure love, which
flows from the heart spontaneously, will help you to this end.

Do not be poor in the matter of loving. Love, love and love. That is all. Do not
ask questions and wait until you get full answers. Begin the pursuit, and you
will find it progresses and fulfils itself in time. A mind which cannot take to
love, radiate and manifest it amply, is virtually a stone.

To love one and all is not anything alien to our heart or soul. In fact, not to
do so is antagonistic to the innocent human nature. A man who loves will begin
his considerations from the premise of acceptance. Accept those that are with
you and around you. It may create a conflict and raise grave questions. That
should not stop you in your efforts. To think of the conflict and resolve it in
the end, you will need to discover the basic truth and unity of everything in
the universe.
--
Paritala Gopi Krishna

-----------------------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,
According to me Prem has opposite hatred. We have encountered loving people but
hated while they misbehaved or misunderstood. Due to prem on our loved ones, we
tolerate their mischief and even support them in wrong doing. The real prem is
that we should guide them, punish them or even distance from them if they
continue wrong ways. Then it real. Prem can be to the country, like Gandhiji
had. But the Prem towards GOD is Devotion not prem. Like very old days few
chaste wives had prem on their husbands, and they were even stopped rotation of
earth, or saw Yama. That is devotion. So devotion has NO opposite. Sukh has
opposite Dukh, but Aanadha has NO opposite. In my opinion Prem is worldly
emotion like SPARISHA, GANDHA, ROOPA ETC.
B.S

-------------------------------

You can be peaceful, harmonious only when you are comfortable with pain,
uncertainty, contradictions, confusion, ambiguity, negativity-otherwise love is
a wishful idea to maintain the status quo.
Y V Chawla

--------------------------------

When we come out of our lower mind, we canget the first glimpse of Prem. Unlike
movement of mind or body as seen in attachment,Prem is a state of Bliss
accompanied with Prakash or Light of Universal Understanding. It is experienced
when wandering mind goes within and merges with Inner Divinity. Bhagvad-Geeta
Chapter 6 Verse18 describes this process as 'Yada Viniyatam Chittam, Atmani eva
avtishthte, Nihispruhah Sarva Kamabhyah, Yukta iti Uchyate Tada.
As we approach this state, consiousness starts expanding and touching more and
more people with its purity. Ultimately as Bertrand Russel read his paper at
Mathematical Congress in Paris, when Ego becomes Zero, Consiousness becomes
Infinite. This is similar to the Hari Vyapak Sarva Samana. It is not possible to
experience this State without Prem which is illustrated in outer world as Sun.It
gives light as well as Life to everything living; but is unattached. As the New
Testament reads'Sun shines equally on the vituous and wicked' Parable of Sun as
incarnation of Yoga or Light starts at the beginning of Ch.4 as'Imam Vivaswate
Yogam, proctavan aham avyayam' So also verse 34 of Ch.13. Love or Prem is light
of understandding and is also accompanied by ever expanding Consiousness tending
towards Infinity.
Jayantilal Shah


---------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhak,

I am God's and ONLY GOD is mine.

Strictly adhere to this mul mantra and see how the supreme Love menifest through
you. This exclusive mineness with Gopala is the master Key to LOVE !!!
No need to define love, just be Love....

with Love,
a sadhika
Sadhna Karigar
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
------
Dear Sadaks,
What Sant meera means that she does not give second thought on anything in world
other than Giridhar..
MERE TO GIRDHAR GOPAL, DOOSARO NA KOI
In world she married, in law poisoned her. She lost her most loved Idol of Sri
Krishna which she was carrying with her. But her consistence in mind on
Giridhar. Here there no question of mineness. She saw Giridhar in all as in case
of Prahalad. We all know God is for all. That prem comes understanding that this
Jagat is Maya and God is only Truth.
Meera says I do not have another to be interested. DOOSARO NA KOI. But we are
interested in everything on earth except God.
Jai Sri Krishna
B.Sathyanarayan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-

Hari Om

The Q of Batraji takes us to the ultimate end result of the Human life. Prem! In
fact, real Prem flows after you are liberated ! When are you liberated? You are
liberated when you cease to get impacted by the world
(body/mind/ego/intellect.... Worldly people/activities/things) ! That Prem is
then called in Scriptures as PARA BHAKTI !!

In Parabhakti state.... The biggest obstacle comes between self and God
Realisation ... In the form of what we call "insistence of a particular way"
(matvaad) like dvait or advait, karma yoga or jnana yoga, bhakti yoga or
meditation, etc ! If you don't insist that x or y is the way ... Para Bhakti
very quickly makes you realise God.... So says Swamiji in the Preface/Foreword
of Sadhak Sanjeevani ! You get "Anant Ras" in Para Bhakti !

There is nothing beyond this Parabhakti ... PREM.... Exclusive Love with
Paramatma .... Which springs forth automatically out of having the sentiment of
"Exclusive Mineness with Paramatma" ! Hence let us establish "mineness" with Him
! APNAPAN is the answer!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
---------------------

Very precisly said by Vyas NB ji. It cant be explained in words. Like a feeling.
U cant say how sweet is sugar. U can feel urself in evey one is an indication by
gitaji. MADBHAVAMAGATA.
THANX
RAJA Gurdasani
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----------------------


"nearness Now is nari’s pain" ...............The Song of Love


From somewhere close, closer than closeness can be,

nari heard a voice, " Come into my Embrace, narinder,

The nearness now is near no more... too far is this nearness, nari...

Come closer, and let even nearness disappear into the Great Void of Silence

Where You are not You, nor I am I, any the more !"


And in despairing nariness, hope of Being did blossom

Into the song of Love...............................

" Come into my Embrace , Krishna

The nearness too, distance so far has become, in This Moment Now... yes too far
...!

Come closer, Beloved , and let nariness die forever unto the void of Silence

Where Krishna is Krishna , Only Krishna, not Nari or Narinder !! "


AUM

narinder bhandari
"nearness Now is nari's pain" ...............The Song of Love

From somewhere close, closer than closeness can be,

nari heard a voice, " Come into my Embrace, narinder,

The nearness now is near no more... too far is this nearness, nari...

Come closer, and let even nearness disappear into the Great Void of Silence

Where You are not You, nor I am I, any the more !"

And in despairing nariness, hope of Being did blossom

Into the song of Love...............................

" Come into my Embrace , Krishna

The nearness too, distance so far has become, in This Moment Now... yes too far
...!

Come closer, Beloved , and let nariness die forever unto the void of Silence

Where Krishna is Krishna , Only Krishna, not Nari or Narinder !! "

AUM

narinder bhandari
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-
Dear sadhakas,
Hare krishna.

This is in response to a question from a sadhaka, regarding prem.

Prem means love. Love is very essential for peace of mind in this life and also
for spiritual advancement to realize the lord.

Lord krishna says in bhagavad gita,

" Tesham satata yuktanam,
Bhajatam priti purvakam,
Dadami buddhi yogam tam,
Yena mam upayanti te. " ( Gita 10, 10)

Which means,

" To those who are devoted to serving me with love all the time, I give them the
understanding by which they can. reach me. "

The words buddhi , and yogam are very important here. Buddhi means intelligence.
Buddhi yoga is the action in krishna consciousness. It is the highest
intelligence.

When we try to goback to the supreme personality of godhead and, takeup the
devotional service of lord krishna, then this action is buddhi yoga. Buddhi yoga
is the process by which we get out of material misery.

Once we know our goal, and we are in devotional service constantly to reach lord
krishna, then we are in buddhi yoga or bhakti yoga, which is the highest stage.

If we serve the lord with prem ( love), then lord krishna gives us the
intelligence ( buddhi), by which we can advance in spiritual life and
ultimately, go back to supreme personality of godhead.

Thank you.

Hare krishna.

Prasad. A. Iragavarapu. M. D
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Love is ................................ NO COMPLAINT .................

Love is ....................................silence in bloom

Love is .................................... Joy spreading its fragrance
choicelessly

Love is ...................................an 'happening'...............just as
meditation is



Love is ...................................... just love
..........................

anarvachniya ............Ah !!!!

AUM

narinder bhandari
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-------

Hey Govind!
My dear saadhak friends,
When I saw the topic "What is meant by PREM?". I could not think of any word or
sentence which can dare to go near the "prem tatva". But, when I started reading
all the posted messages specially by "Shri Deosharan Bisnath ji", I got myself
merged with it. I really thank you all. I pray God to be surrounded with such
great devotee who are full of divine love.
Dear "Shri Vyas ji", I think you meant by "I am God's " and not "I am God" in
your sentence (i.e. PREM = I am God, only God is mine, nothing else is mine ! ).

Hey Vaasudev!
Niteesh
==============================================

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadaks,
Sri Man Mohan Batra --you are NOT close to prem but you are in prem. The prem
which Gopies had on Bagavan. This prem when develops unconditional (In Suk and
Duk) it manifest in everything- living and Non living (mountains, fresh air,
deep blue sky Etc. Then you see Bagavan in them. Eg: Deep blue sky, you will
recollect Sri Krishna as light blue body colour, you see pink flowers, you
recollect HIS lips, like Sant Namadev saw Vital in a dog. It is confirmed in
sastras, vedas, Bagavath geetha and Srimath Bagavath that Sri Krishna is going
to be with you soon. Where as people doing meditation, pooja, Yagna and people
who elaborate texts will be behind Bagavan not knowing whether they will
succeed. Prem is simple, soft, ego less, deep in heart succeeds vedas.
Jai Sri Krishna
B.Sathyanarayan

----------------------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

Dear Batraji ! "PREM" is the automatic and natural outcome of "APNAPAN"
(mineness) ! Divine Prem (Love) hence essentially means exclusive "mineness with
Paramatma" ! When you establish exclusive "mineness" with Him- Prem flows ! When
you establish "mineness" with Him- your "ego" CHANGES ! Because your ego
consists of "me and mine" only ! When your ego changes, you change; your bhavas
change and since karta has changed, hence "karmas" also change. Instead of
"kaamana" (desires for worldly things) - Prem for Paramatma comes in its place
!! But mineness should be EXCLUSIVE :

MERE TO GIRDHAR GOPAL, DOOSARO NA KOI !

PREM = I am God's, only God is mine, nothing else is mine !

I am happy you are getting closer to the truth.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

PREM means unconditional Love.............
Love without conditions..........not even the hidden ones.....
In unconditional love you experience the bliss.....be one.....
Go beyond the two.....
Sushil Jain
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Prem means love. Love does not only mean the type we see in films. It means a
broader all-encompassing love which includes everybody. When you have that God
himself will come before you.

Hari Shanker Deo


---------------------------------------------------------------------

Namaste

PREM or Divine love is the flower of flowers. It is the rarest of all flowers
and it is cultivated in the hearts of all devotees. PREM or bhakti is intense
love, or the highest form of devotion to God. It is supreme attachment to the
lotus-feet of the Lord. It springs from the bottom of the devotee's heart. In it
there is no effort - there is only genuine, natural, spontaneous longing to meet
God.

God is love. Love is God. God is nectar. God is PREM. Supreme love towards God
is PREM. It is the greatest power on earth. It gushes from one's pure heart. It
redeems and saves. It purifies the heart. Devotion is the seed. Faith is the
root. Service of the saints is the shower. Communion with the Lord is the fruit.

Just as a fish cannot live without water, just as the sunflower cannot live
without the sun, just as the chaste wife cannot live without her husband, so
also a true devotee with PREM cannot live without God - even for a moment.

PREM is of the nature of nectar. It gives freedom to the devotee and makes him
perfectly and fully satisfied. It takes him to the feet of the Lord.

PREM is love of God as the servant of God. To serve God and to carry out his
wishes - realising his virtues, his nature, his mystery and his glory and
considering oneself as a slave of the supreme master - this is PREM. Serving and
worshipping the murtis (images) in the temples, sweeping the temples, meditating
on God and serving Him like a slave (mentally), serving the saints and the
sages, serving the devotees of God, serving the poor and the sick, is also
included in PREM.

To follow the words of the scriptures, to act according to the injunctions of
the vedas considering them to be direct words of God, is PREM. Association with
and service of love-intoxicated devotees and service of those who have knowledge
of God, is PREM. The purpose of this is to be ever with God, in order to offer
your services to him and win his divine grace and thereby attain immortality.

PREM is intense, concentrated, pure love of the Lord. PREM brings the devotee
face to face with the Lord. Bhakti culminates in PREM. It is pure nectar.
PREM destroys pains and sorrows. It makes one immortal and blissful and
peaceful. It is very difficult to describe the nature of PREM. You will have to
experience it yourself. Cultivate it through japa (repetition of God's name),
kirtan (chanting), satsanga (holy company), service of devotees and study of the
scriptures. Repetition of hymns and so on will instil in your heart peace, joy,
bliss. Sing the praises of the Lord daily to obtain the Lord's grace and dwell
in him always.

Educate your eyes to see God in all faces, to behold the divine form in all
beings. Educate your ears to hear the sweet melodious kirtans (hymns) of Lord
Hari. Educate your tongue to sing his praises and to utter pleasant, loving and
truthful words. Educate your hands to do charity and serve the poor. Educate the
mind to be cheerful always, to think of him always and to be calm. This is the
true path to develop PREM.

There is only one truth - God. And there is nothing else. The world is His
manifestation. All activities, happenings, doings, are His. All is He. This
world is ephemeral and a passing show, a phenomenon only for a time. There is no
individual existence. The individuality is simply imaginary, an ignorant
condition of the mind.

PREM is Pure love, a divine flame, ever brilliant, never exhausted. It is the
very essence
of pure love to be willing to suffer for the good of others, to place its
happiness in the happiness of others.

Love looks not with the eyes but with the heart. It is the crowning grace of
humanity. Love is indeed heaven upon earth. It casts out fear. Love your
neighbour as your own self. Love God with all your heart, mind and soul. PREM.


This, from a previous post, is what a sadhak who has experienced PREM would
think, ponder, sing, recite, and articulate:

O Father, let me never forget You. Oh compassionate One ! Let your sweet memory
always be with me. O kind-hearted, my Father, my Master, let me not forget You
even in my dreams. My Swami. While walking, eating, sleeping, let me only think
of You. In whatever I do may I always think of You. Your sweet sweet memories
ever remain. Please grace me with this remembrance. As the Gopis always
remembered their Lord Krishna . Whatever work they are doing, yet in their
hearts, in their minds is only Krishna.

Let not even a second pass without me remembering You. Let me think of You every
second. Let me never forget. Let me remember at all times. Like Bharatji said
that I want neither wealth, nor Dharma. nor salvation, nor fulfillment of any
desires - I just want the love of Your lotus Feet. At all times let me remember
only You. Let there be memory of only You. Even if Lord Rama himself thinks of
me as cunning, let my love for His feet never dwindle.

Let me have no other work. Let me never forget Your character, Your qualities,
Your love and Your grace that You shower on Your devotees, Your secrets, Your
pastimes, Your nature - let me never forget You. Whether they are friendly to
You or not, yet You continue to shower Your grace naturally. Like the sun needs
no effort to radiate and brighten the world, You need no effort to love, to
shower Your grace. Your love, Your grace, Your compassion are natural. With Your
grace, let me never forget You. I have no other desire or want. Only love for
Your lotus feet. I ask for it again and again. Let me remember nothing else - I
have no other work or want or desire. Only Your Love . With Your grace grant me
exclusive devotion. Let me be absorbed in your thoughts and nothing else. There
is no other desire what so ever. Even if there is a slight desire, may you get
rid of it. It is so easy for you to grant this and I will be blessed. I only
need your remembrance.

Let my mind and senses be focused only on Your lotus feet. Nothing else in this
world is mine - only You are. My mind is only for You - whatever comes in my
mind is only You, whatever I hear is only You, whatever I see is only You,
whatever I think of is only You, whatever I taste is only You, whatever I smell
is only You. Nothing else comes to any of my senses. Let me become mad in the
eyes of the world. No desire to live or to die or to work - only be with your
thoughts. Be situate in You.

You are my all. You are my only support. My mind is only absorbed at your feet.
You are my all. Let me forget myself - Who am I? Where am I? What am I? Only
your sweet memory. There is nothing else. Let me remember you all 24 hours - in
all situations and circumstances. Besides your grace I remember nothing else.
Not even in my sleep do I forget you. It is a simple straightforward thing for
you. I only desire Your remembrance at all times. Not even the slightest desire
for anything else besides Your remembrance and contemplation. I do not wish to
go anywhere, to do anything. Only that my mind remains attached to Your lotus
feet.

This is my only goal, my only desire, my only want, my only necessity - LET ME
NEVER FORGET YOU. My existence does not remain. I merge with You. Besides you
there is no one else. There is no one else that will come to help me, to support
me. Let me remain ever immersed in your remembrance. Grace me with this, such
that I never forget you. I remember that sweet sweet memories of you. Nothing
else is remembered. Not even food or drinks. Even in sleep, even while sitting
or running, let it be only you. Only you ! Let me be totally absorbed in Your
glories, in Your deep talks and nothing else. Let me become such that I don't
remember who I am, what I am? At all times, let there be only You. And let there
be no desire for anything from You. At all times, there is only sweet memories
of You. I have become useless to the world.

Hey Prabhu, O' Compassionate One! O' Merciful One! No other wishes. Not even to
live, not even to die, not even to enjoy, not to go anywhere. Only You. Besides
your association, nothing else is remembered. Let me become mad in your sweet
remembrance. Whatever I have is all yours. Besides you there is nothing else
that is my own. Let my mind be ever engaged in your lotus feet. Oh My very own !
There cannot be anyone else besides you that is mine, never was, and will never
ever be. You are my everything (Twameva maata...) My very own Prabhu, My very
own Father ! Nothing else is remembered. Not even the least bit of desire.. not
even to become a devotee, to become a lover. Only Your sweet memory. Wherever I
look up, down, sideways, all around, I see only you. Whatever I see, hear,
remember, do, smell, it is all You. Nothing else is there in the least bit,
besides You. Hey Naath ! Hey Mere Swami ! 24 hours, not a moment leaves without
your remembrance. It is You and You alone. Besides You there is nothing else.
This is my request, my wish, my aim, my goal.

Hey Mere Naath (Father), Let me never forget You. Let me become completely
absorbed within and without. Let me be totally immersed in You. No other work
has to be done. Let me become simply mad about You. Hey Narayana ! O' caregiver
of the wretched and the poor. Let me Never Forget You ! Narayana ! Narayana !
Narayana ! (By Swami Ramsukhdasji)

Ram Ram ,
Deosaran Bisnath
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
------
Dear Sadhak,

Love is found every where in human life.Love that is generally understood is
between families.This love is required to be diverted to love for almighty God
This is divine love which is required for seeking God

Tru;y Yours

S S Bhatt

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
---



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SHREE HARI RAM RAM

THIS BRINGS CLOSURE TO THIS THREAD!  THANK YOU ALL!  RAM RAM

---------------------------------------------


Shri Hari
Ram Ram

Acceptace of truth that God is mine & I am God's (Bhagwat Gita 15.7) is possible
but very difficult.

By chanting the name of God it is easy to accept the truth.

I have to chant the name of God so no alternative for God realisation/peace of
mind. No other can help,I have to chant the name of God in the age of Kaliyug.

Is my understanding right.
Thanks & Regards

Pawan Kumar Singhal


--------------------------------------------


FOLLOW UP QUESTION

So after reading above posts, i have one doubt remaining....

How should I observe my relationship with God....should I see it in sense of
worldly relations like I am His son or I am His lover or in any type....Because
while doing so, am I not committing the mistake of seeing myself still as a body
and not as "I am only God's" ?
Rishabh Didwania

---------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------

Shree Hari Ram Ram

You may benefit from reading these articles by Swamiji

Become God's and Chant His Holy Name
http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net/eBooks/Become-Gods-and-Chant-His-Holy-Name.pdf

Glories of Chanting the Lord's Name
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/2882

On Chanting and Repeating God's Divine Name
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1967

Chanting Holy Name Transcends Nature
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1521

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

------------------------------------------------




Radhe Radhe

Acceptance is not difficult. Acceptance of the Truth is man's dharma. You
accepted your wife (assuming you are married), however she may have been. Once
married, it is DONE! Thereafter, you regarded her as your family. You accepted
your family as your own, your guru as your own, and so on. What else is this
besides acceptance? You know both acceptance and non-acceptance. Swamiji says to
apply this knowledge of "acceptance" and accept that you are God's and only God
is yours (only He will remain with you always).

After this acceptance, there is nothing more to be done for yourself! SO NOW
CHANT, do kirtan, japa, swadhyaa, satsang , BUT THIS IS ALL FOR OTHERS. NOT FOR
YOURSELF, as you have already turned yourself over to God. You are his
responsibility now. So simple! (as Swamiji says).


Radha Rani
Radhe Radhe

------------------------------------

Hari Om

Instead of eliminating Aham (Jnana Yoga) , the change of aham (Bhakti Yoga) is
easier and better. Therefore change the aham form atom to 'I am God's and not
world's' ! Actually we are God's naturally, automatically, erroneously we have
become of world. Just As: The acceptance that 'I am householder' makes your
house holdership 'solid/undivided' Similarly: When you accept 'I am God's' then
your relationship with God becomes 'akhand' (undivided) ! " I am God's and not
of any other" - Mere To Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro Na Koi...this is your NEW BIRTH.
When you become of God..your 'gotra' changes..you become 'achyut gotra' , there
is no caste then of yours..you are BHAKTA ! If you have pride of caste then you
have not become of God. 'Deeksha' ( teaching of Guru) means - To change !!!

Your 'acceptance' only binds you, your acceptance only releases you.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhaka,
Hare Krishna.
Your understanding of chanting the Holy names, is absolutely correct.

In Brhan Naradiya Purana,3.8.126, it is mentioned,
" Hare Nama Harer nama,
Harer namaiva hi kevalalam,
Kalau nasty eva nasty eva,
Nasty eva, gatir anyatha. "
Which means,
' In this age of kali, there is no other means of self realization, no other
means, no other means, than the chanting of the holynames, chanting of the holy
names, chanting of the holy names. '

Bhagavad Gita also says,
" Yajnanam japa yajnosmi. "
( Gitaji 10, 25)
Which means,
' Of sacrifices, I am the chanting of the holy names, ( Japa) '

' Kaliyuge Smaranan Muktih' which means,
Chanting of the Holy names is the way for liberation in this kaliyuga.

Let us chant and spread the divine wisdom.


Thank you.

Prasad. A. Iragavarapu, MD

------------------------------------------------------


>> should I see it in sense of worldly relations like I am His son or I am His
lover or in any type....Because while doing so, am I not committing the mistake
of seeing myself still as a body and not as "I am only God's" ?

Beautiful question. This is one of the conflict between jnana-yoga and
bhakti-yoga. Difficult to comprehend.

This is beautifully explained by Gosvami Tulsidasji as follows --
Sri Rama (the Lord of the Raghus), who reigned in Ayodhya, was the undisputed
sovereign of the entire earth girdled by the seven oceans. This lordship (of the
entire earth) was nothing great for Him as every hair-hole of his Cosmic body
contains infinite universes. To him, who has realized the greatness of the Lord,
even this description (of being the king of earth) will sound highly
disparaging. But even those, who have realized the greatness of the Lord (as
indicated above) ,relish His pastimes (exploits) as the king of Ayodhya. The
result of realizing Ram as the Lord of the universe is to develop taste and
fondness towards His glories as the king of Ayodhya.

Sukadeva Gosvami was realized himself as the atma and did not have any illusion
of self as body. Still, great souls like him relish the glories of the Lord.

SB 1.7.9: Śrī Śaunaka asked Sūta Gosvāmī: Śrī Śukadeva Gosvāmī was
already on the path of self-realization, and thus he was pleased with his own
self. So why did he take the trouble to undergo the study of such a vast
literature?SB 1.7.10: All different varieties of ātmārāmas [those who take
pleasure in ātmā, or spirit self], especially those established on the path of
self-realization, though freed from all kinds of material bondage, desire to
render unalloyed devotional service unto Krishna. This means that the Lord
possesses transcendental qualities and therefore can attract everyone, including
liberated souls.

There are five rasas in bhakti-yoga in which the devotee forms relationship with
Krishna (shanta, dasya, vatsalya, sakhya and madhurya). The great souls who see
themselves as atma and not body also form relationship with Him in those rasas.

Swami Ramsukhdasji says that dvaita (difference between self and Krishna) in
lower stages binds us. In lower stage, we see ourselves separate from God and
see self as the product of matter. Same dvaita (separatedness from Krishna) is
the source of unlimited happiness or prema in the higher stage.

This is complicated topic.

If you really want to understand it, then please read Ram Charit Manas multiple
times. The prolonged association of the glories of Lord Ram will make you
understand this topic.

At His feet in service,

G B

------------------------------------------------

Sadhak says,"Acceptance of truth that God is mine & I am God's (Bhagwat Gita
15.7) is possible but very difficult"
Saadhaka understands ACCEPTANCE (I am God's and God's mine) is the MOST EASY
HAPPENING (Not an action to be done) as whether one accepts or doesn't accept,
EACH and EVERYONE is God's and God's EVERYONES. [Swameejee says,"bhagwaan ke
samaan sulabh koee hai hee nahhen." Manavamaatrake kalyaanake liye page 84].
Chanting God's name is an action and all actions or inaction are not as EASY as
this ACCEPTANCE IS.
Humbly,
Saadhaka.

-----------------------------------------------

Hari Om

Well there is no doubt that 'chanting of God's name' is a very easy mean of
accomplishing Bhakti Yoga and is in itself a 'sadhan bhakti' ! In Kaliyuga,
there is special glory of 'naam japa'.

However, it gives faster results when 'naam japa' is accompanied by Prem (Love
for God) ! That PREM comes to you, when you accept 'mineness' with Paramatma. It
is a law : Love emanates effortlessly out of mineness. Actually, in the methods
of God Realisation 'activity' is not important rather 'bhava' (sentiment) and
'Jnana' (knowledge) is important. Naam Jap is a wonderful medium of awakening
bhavas and jnana though indulging in activity. But if 'bhava' is deficient, naam
jap does not give special results. Regarding 'bhava' there are lot of things,
but the most important is 'mineness with Paramatma' !

Said Goswamiji Maharaj - HOHI RAAM KO NAAM JAPI ...! You 'become' of Raam and
then chant His name...if you do so that gives INSTANT results. Mistake we make
is that we remain of world, and then call Paramatma. " We are worldly people,
Kaliyugi jeevas" - like this if you accept then world and kaliyuga will impact
you more, because you established relationship with them. People say: " Ham to
khaali Raam Raam karate hain" (We do empty- only- Raam Raam) ! Why do you do
'khaali' Raam Raam...why not with 'bhava' (mineness) ?

I don't know why we consider the 'acceptance' to be difficult. Even a child does
not experience any difficulty in accepting: Mother is mine ! Actually the glory
lies in 'becoming of God' ! A chaste Indian wife never utters the name of her
husband throughout her life, still because she 'becomes' of her husband, she
gets emancipated. Such is the glory of 'acceptance' ! The more attached a child
is to mother, faster she comes.

JUST AS: In group there are many mothers and children . When a particular child
calls "Maa" - only his mother comes running , not all mothers inspite of the
fact that all are mothers. Meaning: Child becomes of that particular mother and
then calls. That impacts the mother. Not his use of words 'Maa' ! Had only words
been powerful all mothers would have come running ! So it is 'mineness' which is
primary.

But your understanding in Kaliyuga is not imperfect. Yes...Naam Japa is an
independent sadhan. We must do that. When you do so, by grace of God you shall
'become' of God also, in due course. Ma Suchah ! Keep doing 'naam japa' whole
heartedly, doubtlessly..! Words can't express the glory of 'naam japa' !

JO JEEVA CHAHE MUKTI KO , TO SUMREEJE RAAM ! 'HARIYA' GAILE CHALATA, JAISE AAWE
GAAM !!

If Jeeva wants emancipation, he should keep remembering Raam. Just As: By
keeping on walking, you reach a vilage.

All said and done, still, I can't advice you 'not to accept mineness with
Paramatma'. HOHI RAAM KO NAAM JAPI- is correct method of naam jap. A naam jap
without Prem (bhava) is not futile, in Kaliyuga highly recommended, but
'becoming of Him' gives very fast results. You should ask more Qs on
'acceptance' !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
----------------------------------------------

Hari SharaNam,

Sri ShankaraachaaryaJi Maharaaj says ..

NA MOKSHASYAAKAANKSHAA BHAVAVIBHAVAVAANCHAAPI CHA NA ME ,
NA VIGYAANAAPEKSHAA SHASHIMUKHA SUKHECHCHHEPI NA PUNAH |
ATASTVAAM SANYAACHE JANANI JANANAM YAATU MAM VAI,
MRRIDAANI RUDRAANI SHIV SHIV BHAVAANI-ITI JAPATAH || (DEVI-APARAADHA-KSHAMAA
Stotra/8)

I don't have the desire to attain Moksha, neither I have the desire for the
worldly wealth. I don't have expectations of sciences and O the Moon-faced
Goddess! I don't even desire for the luxuries and comfort. O Mother! Thus, I beg
You, that whenever I am born, give me the chanting of these names to me β€"
Mridani, Rudrani, Shiv, Bhavani.

If you really have the true quest to understand the meaning/importance/glory of
chanting Lord's name from Saints & Scriptures, you can study the lines starting
from "BANDAU RAAM NAAM RAGHUVAR KO -1/18/1" to "SUMIRI SO NAAM RAAM GUNA
GAATHAAA, KARAUN NAAI RAGHUNAATHAHI MAATHAA -1/28/2" of "Sri Raam Charit Maanas"
by GoswaamiJi.

I would also strongly suggest to study the chapters "10 to 15" of the section
"Bhakti Yoga" of "Saadhan-Sudha-Sindhu" by Swami RamSukhaDasJi to have detailed
understanding about chanting Lord's name. SwamiJi has explained each & every
step very nicely.

May all be blessed!
Niteesh Dubey


------------------------------------------------


Dear Sadaks,
A lady was walking on rope at a height of 15 feet with balancing stick
carelessly. I cant do it. But if I practice for some period, I can also do it.
Chanting is easy, but without love it is NO use. There are real incidents where
sadaks, poojaries, saints were chanting names and slokas but could not see GOD.
A farmer, potter, a barber, a goldsmith, a hunter etc could get GOD near them.
So Sri Krishna saying, "Pathram Pushpam etc", if deeply thought over, it is not
pushpam, it is pushpam with utmost unconditional love or even without pushpam
GOD will come to you.
B.S

-------------------------------------------------
Kaliyug naam adhara.Chanting is a part attempt to synchronise mind and body and
thus assign naam an effective parameter.Righteous kama

subhashtewari

------------------------------------------

Shree Hari Ram Ram

FROM MANAS MEIN NAAM VANDAN by Swami Ramsukhdasji

Even if "kasturi" (the musk of a deer), is made to promise to not spread it's
fragrance, then will she be able to stop? The scent will surely spread.
Similarly, if someone even silently does "bhajan" and if no one comes to know,
then too Maharaj, it will be revealed. It's unique and extra-ordinary qualities
will be seen. It will have an effect on the people; because God's name is so
very transcendental, so extra-ordinary, that not just this world, but the world
beyond will also be benefited. A child from an ordinary household who was not
regarded as anyone special previously, can become an ascetic. And further, if he
becomes immersed in "bhajan" worship, adoration of God then he can become a
great saint, a great soul. Many miraculous things can happen through him. What
is the point here? This is the glories of the divine name of the Lord.

Meera Das, Ram Ram

==============================================

By talking about God, Enlightenment, liberation and so on, one is seeking a way
out of pain and uncertainty of normal life. Unless one absorbs pain and
uncertainty "as it is", there is no chance of finding the "True".
You can not run away from yourself. The illusion gives the impression as if
comforting ideas or addition to securities will undo pain and uncertainty.
God does not mean that things will be alright in future. God means whatever is
there is Order. Every movement is from order to order and not from disorder to
order. Instantly, you feel one with yourself, one with whole existence. Relaxed
and conscious action emerges. Now ANY action in ANY direction is creation.
Y V Chawla

---------------------------------------------------

Of recent I have been doing Naam Japa. I read in Jivan Upyogi pravachan an
excellent book that with naam japa, sense pleasures and sins are wiped out,
agitation of mind is removed, and one gains immense peace. Also, "bhajan"
increases, and the impossible becomes possible.

The books says that when worries come to mind, for half hour simply chant God's
name, and all worries will disappear. With Naam Japa, you become one with the
Name. hope this helps.

Sarita

------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhaks,



After working for 51 yrs I have called it a day. God has directed me to devote
rest of my life for a social cause. He has directed me to convey His message
that He has given more than required resources for every body to live a
Prosperous, Peaceful and Happy life. All the sufferings, poverty and violence in
the world are man-made.

You can search for my blog
Mahendra Kumar Agarwal

------------------------------------------
Acceptance and its blind spot …



Acceptance is like the steering that guides the vehicle toward intended
destination. It is the greatest tool of all for realization. No doubt about
that. It takes the body-mind cluster toward the intended destination without
failure. Yet … it has a blind spot of its own … it is guided or driven by
another fellow within - the individual, the ego! Steering remains blind until
the driver remains blind!! Therefore, it is of paramount importance that the
driver is given proper vision to steer the steering properly enabling oneself to
move the associated body-mind cluster toward the destination.



One needs to practice the steering lessons with acute observation and astute
determination to gain good vision. But, practice in itself is crippled unable to
connect the visionary to the vision ahead. For example, one needs to understand
what exactly Ahimsa means to practice whatever enable that. Mere practice
induces kind of insistence in the belief perceived. A person advocating Ahimsa
turns into fight in order to thwart any opposition! That is the weakness of
practiced Acceptance - a bias is created toward the very belief! The bias always
retains a potential to become FANATISM given an intensifying environment!!



But, one ought to keep it in mind that practice remains vital in seeking Truth
since one is capable of understanding ONLY perceived realities in life! One has
practiced to believe what is revealed within the cognitive system. Perceived
reality alone can be the guiding lamp in the pursuit TO START WITH. Therefore,
perpetual education to the perceiver to be cognizant of the boundaries of the
very perception remains vital not to idolize the perceived realities in the
process! Idolization would halt the very pursuit in its very epicenter!! For
example, Ahimsa becomes an IDOL while it still remains an invalidated notion
within!!!



What is missing in practiced acceptance is a cultivation within. One needs to
appreciate the values observed and practiced with absolute transparency within.
Appreciation without any bias is CULTIVATION! Acutely subtle awareness is
essential here - THERE CANNOT BE ANY BIAS EVEN TOWARD THE VERY PRACTICE THAT
ENABLED IT!!



True acceptance of anything is NOT TO SEE ANY TRACE OF ITS POTENTIAL OPPOSITE.
Without one's multi-polar nemesis around, how can that exist anymore?!
Therefore, true acceptance of anything would instantly retire the very thing
that was accepted into THE ABSOLUTE that ever IS. For example, true acceptance
of Ahimsa is to realize the impossibility of its nemesis Himsa altogether.
Ahimsa ought to dismiss itself with such a true acceptance. If insistence on
Ahimsa remains, it means a hint of Himsa is retained within! Same way, true
Bhakti is an absolute acceptance of THE ABSOLUTE! How can it retain itself as
anything then?! Bhakti ought to dissolve into the very ABSOLUTE as ever!! If
Bhakti is insisted upon, The Bhagavaan is forced to be an object of a pursuit!!!
That is cultivation ... to let the perceived acceptance percolate within into
one's very existence ... so much that the very acceptance dissolves within ...
as ever ...



Therefore, true acceptance is one wherein it is no more needed!!!



Respects.



Naga Narayana.

--------------------------------------------


Sadhak Rishabh Didwaniajee!
Every relationship (son, father, mother, friend, sakha, daas etc) that arises
(comes in to being) will vanish when physical body ends.
Self that is eternally God's (before the body is born, during the body exists
and after the body perishes) remains God's, needing no relationship.
Accept with firm determination,"I am God's ONLY and ONLY God's mine" [as
directed by Swameejee) and see that IT IS and all other relationships with God
change with time.
Humbly,
Saadhaka

-----------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
Welcome ManjulaJi! Nice to see your short and sweet response after long time!

This is response to Follow up question by RishabhJi.

Somehow I feel strongly that if the meaning of God is understood through our
experience, using God given Intelligence, Trust in Scriptural/Swamiji's words,
interest, then you will know the true meaning of "God is mine and I am God's"!
Relationships are problem only if one wants to possess, dominate, depend, use
someone for one's own interests! So, even such relations as son, lover, friend,
may be used to glorify one's ego.
In the absence of ego, all relations are Divine! We can Love God only through
some such relationship, and above all by serving such relationships! One cannot
relate to God with body identification, if you relate to God sincerely, then
identification drops off!

In this way worldliness is replaced by Godliness!

You are fine if you can be honest about it!
All bodies are His body! When you hear or read "I am not the body", it means I
am not this body only, I am either all bodies, or no body, both are fine! No one
body can survive on its own, and bodies never tell us they are separate! When
you understand "God is mine" you are acknowledging the demise of ego, you are
never limiting God to be "yours" alone! How can you?

Namaskar...Pratap Bhatt

------------------------------------------------
Hari Om

Re: Follow up Question

Your desire 'to observe' the relationship as son or friend etc itself is example
of the acceptance: 'I am body' ! You need not go that deep. In Bhakti Yoga-
there is no need to begin with ' I am not body'. A bhakta considers ultimately
that everything is belonging to His God and sees his God everywhere. Hence you
need not worry too much on this aspect. Just consider you to be belonging to Him
rather than to the world. BELIEVE this firmly, it will set into you because it
is truth. In case of Bhakti Yoga, it is God's responsibility to arrange for
whatever is needed by a Bhakta. You simply establish a relationship with Him, an
exclusive relationship.

Actually in Bhakti, sadhak 'CHANGES' his (her) AHAM. He doesnot purify (karma
yoga) or eliminate (Jnana yoga)
Aham...He changes from I am of the world to I am God's ! In that change , both
'me' (ahankar) and 'mine' (mamta) get addressed while in Karma Yoga 'mine' gets
purified (removal of bhoktahood) and in Jnana yoga 'me' gets eliminated. But in
Bhakti, both undergo a change. There it becomes duty of God to make you realise-
I am not body.

Concentrate more on 'Doosaro Na Koi' ...'Mere to Girdhar Gopal' has to be
exclusive ...no other should be yours...Doosaro Na Koi !!!

Hence you can fearlessly consider Him to be your father/friend/lover..anything
though God loves FRIENDSHIP the most. In Ramayana Lord made 3 friends- Nishadraj
Guha (Siddha); Vibheesan (Sadhak) and Sugreeva (Bhogi/worldly) ! Lord Krishna
also made Arjuna as His friend.

Change of aham is instant. There is no need for you to set yardsticks/try to
know as to whether you have actually become or not or what aresymptoms thereof.
Just have child like belief. When we can't leave 'asat' (false) even easily, how
truth will leave us?

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
------------------------------------------------
Dear Sadaks,

Why do we chant? 1) Fear of death and to get mukthi. 2) Because sastras says
Namasankeethan is Bakthi in Kaliyug and liberation. 3) For nis Kama Prema
Bakthi.(Pure Love towards God not thinking of anything in return). From Chanting
IF we develop love towards God -1, next we chant more frequently without seeing
who is observing-2, then we continue chanting irrespective of sufferings or
problems-3. But chanting-1 itself leads to emancipation of soul in better
structure atleast in next birth. finally after 3 stages, a person becomes Guna
Teeth which Bagavan says in Geetha HE likes him most. In that stage chanting is
not necessary. There was A Bhramin referred in Garuda Puran, who never chanted.
Narath Rishi asked Sri Vishnu who is HIS best Baktha. Bhramin was told. Naradh
came down to earth and saw tha Bhramin sharpening a sword. Smelling trouble-
Naradh in disguise as ordinary man asked the Bhramin why he was sharpening
sword. Bhramin replied,"I want to kill Arjuna, next Narath, because they are
always chanting Sri Vishnu name Narayana causing God trouble". This Bhramin
utmost love not to trouble GOD. If that we get NO need to chant. But chanting
will lead to GOD in this same birth or over few birth depending on strength and
quality of chanting. In Shiva Baktha everyone knows Sant Kannaper who never knew
to chant. Ajamilan you all know never chanted but went to heaven. HOW IS
POSSIBLE- Can any sadak reply. Same thing with prostitute pingala- Gokar brother
never chanted but hearing Bagavath liberated- chanting mantra was main for Jada
Bharat, but he had to be born as Deer, Jayadev was great Baktha of Pori Jaganth,
but his wife saw Bagavan first- Any Sadak NOW THIS STORY? Kasi Batt was chanting
Jaganath randomly, but Bagavan Jaganath came to his house,- Droupathi had Sri
Krishna name in her corner of mind strongly. When she was striped, she called ,
"A KRISHNA DWARKA VASIM---" God came to her rescue. whereas Dharmaraj her
husband could he called Hey Krishna once while throwing chess, he would have
won. So calling Paramathuma if deep in body, mind and soul (Thrikarna) one need
not keep chanting but he will be relishing love on GOD internally and will look
like mad man. Recently I saw vedio presentation on day of Shiva Rathri of a
Guruji at Coimbatore belonging Ayush. There was lot of music Didwans singing,
Drum beater dancing Etc. I asked a person who is close to that Guruji, why this
show. He said, Shiva Rathri one should not sleep, but should do Shiva Nama
Sankeerthan. The I asked why not do that instead of musical night. You can have
the show any other day of Guruji birthday, not on Holy day. NO answer. Option
are given to humans by God with very great benevolence, that atleast one day- be
it Shiva Rathri or Vaikunt Ekadasi one day chanting short cut to mukthi. Gurujis
never tell their disciple the concept of Bagavan Shiva or Narayana- Why I dont
Know. Big statues of Shiva or Narayana outside is immaterial when NO BAKTHI
within. Pardon my posting if any mistakes.
B.S


--------------------------------------------------
Dear Divine,
Pranams.
Think how is your breath flowing in and out of your body - go beyond physical
organs. Think who is pulling this breath? Know who owns each one of your breath?
Understand how much control do you have over so call 'my breath'?
In every inhalation and every exhalation try to chant HIS Divine name. Be aware
of each breath, listen to your own chanting and feel the transformation it is
bringing. You will get what you are looking for.
Let God/Gurus blessings showering upon us all the time be realized.
Humble regards,
always at Thy Divine Feet
Manjula Patel

---------------------------------------------
Hi
According to me, merely chanting the name of ram or krishna is not enough
The object of life is to be healthy,prosperous & live happily & giving thanks to
god by right actions & good deeds done to others but secretly. But how ? By
knowledge
But how to get this knowledge
Says lord krishna-"all work in its entirety culminates in knowledge o partha
(arjun)
So according to me, the first step is hard work no matter what job you are in;
high or low
From your hard work combined with prayer & taking gods name you will get health,
wealth & happiness
balbir singh

-----------------------------------------------

Rishabji, Thanks for the question. Very relevant indeed.



To relate God and Self … ANY -> ALL -> NONE



Relationship is bimodal in notion: I belong to others … others belong to me.
Former generates a sense of dependency and imposes bondage in terms of
submission and inferiority in one's perception. Later induces a sense of
ownership and imposes a bondage in terms of command and superiority in one's
understanding. Therefore, all relations indicate ownership since the entities
related are never considered equal. In fact, one is incapable of cognizing
anything that is not related to oneself! As soon as some new information is
introduced, one instinctively looks how the new information is related to
oneself. One cannot and will not proceed unless such a relation is established.
One, how to communicate the new information inward unless it is linked to at
least some memory cells within? Two, if it remains unconnected within, how to
use the new information?? The very communication process breaks down without a
relation.



Naturally, ownership indicators such as my, mine, his, her, belong-to, etc.
naturally creep into any expression of a relation! Until one perceives a
relation, ownership remains in one's perception. Until one perceives ownership,
insistence of subjective existence (ego) persists. Until the ego persists, all
its relatives such as crave, greed, aspiration, excitement, anxiety,
frustration, anger, depression, etc. will flourish in one's experience. The only
way to drive all these notions away is to remove the very notion of relations
within. The only way to mitigate the relations is to purge the very instinct
that keeps churning relations after relations - the ego!



Cessation of the subject (individual) from the perceived objects (world) IS
ESSENTIAL to claim any relation either way. The ignition key for the very
cognition remains in such a cessation. As soon as a cessation is perceived, a
relation enters the arena along with associated ownership. Therefore, one does
not know how to proceed without a relation as one's cognitive system is locked
into the notion of a relation implicitly! Then how one can ever escape such a
vicious circle?!



Therefore, one has to win over one's very instinct to stake ownership everything
that is perceived. For this one has to (1) realize how all such stakes are faked
just to sustain cognition from within; and (2) find a legitimate owner for all
to reinforce the realization within.



The duality in ownership - I belong to some and some belong to me - is the root
cause for instability within. One claims to be the owner ... but, any such
notion flickers in its very inception and vanishes sooner than it appears! Thus,
the want for ownership remains forever pushing one to stake claims of ownership
on one or the other to sustain the self-proclaimed owner, the ego. Therefore,
such duality has to be mitigated to attain an absolute stability within. Until
one stakes individual claims, this duality ought to remain in the arena since
the perceived objects continue to reciprocate sentiments opposed to the claimed
stakes. The only way to mitigate such notional turbulence within is to realize
an unquestionable authority on all.



The remedy is to attain a no-relation state! But how?? Antidote for any problem
remains within the problem itself. Find a relationship that cannot reciprocate
any duality. That is where the concepts of God and Self become useful.



The concept of God (Brahman) is fathomed from around - there should be a
universal entity that dwells the whole universe to generate, sustain and absorb
all its activities in absolute integrity ... Eeshaavasyamidam sarvam yatkincha
jagatyaam jagat! Though the very concept removes all potential relations, one
would not fathom it instantly. One starts nurturing a relation "I belong to
God". Such a relation cannot reciprocate as "God belongs to me" would instantly
remove the very notion of God from its conceived pedestal of supremacy.



Persistent and vigilant examination of all potential ownerships would start
loosening one's ignorant beliefs on ownership on one hand and start revealing
how the conceived God ought to be the owner of all ... Tena tyaktena bhunjeethaa
maa gridhah kasya sviddhanam!! As the contemplation percolates within, the
concept becomes conviction and conviction becomes reality. One looses one's
individual claims altogether and God alone remains. When God alone remains, WHO
IS WHOSE???!!! All relations vanish altogether ... ONLY TRUTH REMAINS AS IS AND
AS EVER.



The concept of Self (Aatman) arises from a contemplation within - if the subject
remains secluded from the objects as per the perceived cessation, how could
there be any communication at all?! Then, how can there be any relation as
such??!! Therefore, there should be one that never seeks cessation ever and
maintains an unbroken communication across all the apparently discrete entities
in order to enable the very relations ... Ritam pibantou sukritasya loke guhaam
pravishTou parame paraardhye! The fellow does not seek any association and none
can associate with Him. Therefore, the very notion of belonging falters there.
Now the question remains, what are these entities that relating to each other.



Persistent and vigilant examination of all potential existence would start
loosening one's ignorant beliefs on the very existence on one hand and start
revealing how everything is just a shadow of The Invariant within all ...
Chaayaatapou brahmavido vadanti panchaagnayo ye cha triNaachiketaah!! As the
contemplation percolates within, the concept becomes conviction and conviction
becomes reality. One looses one's individual existence altogether and Self alone
remains. When Self alone remains, WHO IS WHOSE???!!! All relations vanish
altogether ... ONLY TRUTH REMAINS AS IS AND AS EVER.



Therefore, my dear friend, choose "a relation" that you revere from your heart;
realize how that alone remains in all other perceived relations; and then how
can the very notion of relation remain?! Till then … practice the contemplation
(Manthana) … cultivate the realization that churns out from the very process ...



Respects.



Naga Narayana.


---------------------------------------------------------



Dear Ones, Namaste!

Pawan KumarJi, your understanding is right, chanting God's name with total
Trust, longing of the heart, and making it the highest priority of life will do
miracle!
It is not only in Kaliyuga, in any age it is so. One caution: It should not be
casually done just because Saints tell us that it is enough in Kaliyuga to chant
only, nothing else needs to be done, while I go about living a life as I please.

Life style, in the sense of making an honest living, helping others, remaining
content with what one has, following some Gita principles whatever one
understands! The beauty of Gita or any scriptures, for that matter, is that you
don't need to first understand the entire text to implement it, one can start
with whatever one has understood even if its just a verse or two. So, don't
worry about difficult to accept, just know for a fact that whatever one
understands gets automatically in one's behaviors!

If acceptance of "God is mine and I am of God" is possible then it is not
difficult!
It becomes difficult because we say it is difficult and mind obliges us because
we already accepted "yes, is difficult"!

The process is that by chanting sincerely, one will know what is God, and what
it means to be of God. From there one can see, "oh, it means God is "I/me" also
in addition to all "I/me's" of others!
If everyone can say "God is mine and I am of God only", then, God must be all
inclusive! Thus one may start seeing God in others as well, first, occasionally
and then more often, and then nothing but God!

When that happens what else remains to run after?

Namaskar.........Pratap Bhatt

----------------------------------------------

Chanting … Power of contemplation …



Vaalmiki was a ruthless hunter plus robber in his prior life. Once Devarshi
Naarada is countered by the fellow. Naarada asks him, "Why are you doing such
heineous act?". Valmiki says, "Yes! I am doing this for my family". Naarada
counters him back, "Do you think any would share your sins?!" The confident
robber says, "Yes! My family adores me!!" Naarada chuckles, "Why don't you
confirm? I will wait for you."



The fellow returns crest-fallen after a while and tells Naarada, "I was
mistaken. Everybody wants what I take home; but, nobody wants to share my sins!
Please guide me out of this!!" Naarada's mission was accomplished. He asked the
illiterate robber to chant "RAMA". The fellow says, "I don't know what it is!
What is the use?!". Naarada shows him a tree and asks him, "What is that?".
Valmiki says, "MARA (tree in Kannada)". Naarada says, "OK! Chant MARA". Vaalmiki
starts chanting "MARA" continuously. The chant turns into "RAMA" sooner than he
realized what RAMA is in the MARA itself. The illiterate brute becomes a
realized Maharshi as Lord Rama reveals Himself to the truthful contemplation
within through a tree (Mara).



That is the power of meditative contemplation. Just a simple sound such as "OM"
is enough ... a simple object such as a stone is enough ... simply, oneself is
enough ... even nothing is enough. Wherever you start and however you proceed,
deep contemplation ought to reveal THE TRUTH in anything and everything that is
contemplated upon ... BECAUSE THE TRUTH IS EVERYTHING!



|| Tasyai tapo damah karmeti pratishThaa || Undeterred vigilant focus is the
basis for contemplation. It empties the mind off all the notions.



|| Vedaah sarvangaani || Knowledge pours into an absolutely unprejudiced empty
mind. Rather it floods in with no barriers as all potential barriers for
receiving the same are dropped in the very process.



|| Satyamaayatanam || The very contemplation being initiated toward THE TRUTH
marches ahead to attain the same as awareness fills the empty fellow from within
as the knowledge fills from around. THE TRUTH remains in the altar as the
knowledge of the world grows with absolute awareness. As the existential
knowledge merges into The Awareness within, The Awareness alone shines and THE
TRUTH alone remains in the horizon AS IS ... and ... AS EVER.



Rather what you chant does not matter … how you apply yourself in the same
matters a lot … why you do it matters much more. There cannot be any barrier to
chanting in time or space. It is a foolproof path to realize in all Yugas
anywhere in the world ... as far as it is done right. Therefore, chant my dear
friend … Chant to contemplate! Contemplate to meditate!! Meditate to realize!!!
Let that awareness in that realization shower the very meditation. Let that
cleansed meditation wash the dirt in contemplation. Let that divine Gangaa flow
down from such contemplation to the very existence that is immersed in the
chanting ... to cleanse the ignorance and inertia scattered in its nooks and
corners. Let The Awareness BE as IS and as EVER illumining all the activities
within as well as around.

Respects.

Naga Narayana.
-----------------------------------------------------
Kaliyug naam adhara.If you exercise devoution(chanting is the simplest
technique) sincerely,you knock the gates.In His blessings you shall feel the
response.
subhashtewari

-------------------------------------------------------
To pawan kumar & all other devoters & other questioners
I am a humble devotee of lord krishna. He has never asked people to accept his
teachings blindly. That is why he in his hours long dialogue with arjun on the
battle field is to convince him by rational reasoning, not by merely commanding
him to do this or that. In this modern age where all are educated to accept
anything blindly is the greatest sin, like doing japa without understanding.. O
you devotees when will you open your eyes to that reason for which god has given
you a mind & the awakening of education.do nothing without reason as krishna
does with arjun; he could have just commanded him to fight; but no, he patiently
reasoned with him that as a warrior it was his duty to fight. So too must you
all do nothing without reason, neither japa nor repeating the name of god.  That
was for the old days 3000 years ago when the mind of ordinary ignorant people
had not developed. So what is the right path you may ask
While most indians know stories from the ramayan & mahabharata, 99% have not
read the gita & of those even fewer have understood it. I am not trying to
belittle you. The very fact that you are on this portal shows your first step in
awakening & questioning which is very good.
There are 2 messages to be learnt from the gita
1.the philosophy of hinduism on how to live a happy & balanced life
2. The secret meaning of "om' knowing & following which one can overcome all the
problems in live & live a life of good health wealth & happiness unlimited & if
you are retired but not tired of life to spend some time (not money) to doing
social work with all the knowledge you have gained in your working to help your
community or country as i do
I send these online messages about the gita to people in india & some overseas
groups of indians & now i will be sending these to your group starting again in
about 30 sessions every 2nd day
You will be free to believe or reject my words but must follow your own mind &
senses  which god has given you
Sorry if any of my words have given offence to any one
With humble thanks
Balbir singh

---------------------------------------------
Dear Gita-Talk member,

Chanting God's name by mouth while your mind is
wandering somewhere else is of no use. Nothing
of your chanting will ever reach God. Instead you
should "throw all your thoughts away" and then "chant
God's name" in your thinking. This will have the effect
you are looking for. With this process, you will eventually
loose your EGO. Once this is done, in 3+ years of
"chanting" will abolish almost all your negative karma
and you will be getting "bells and whistles" for higher
powers as you move forward.

Good luck! Bye!
Notesh Otes

-----------------------------------------------------


It is about knowing our self and being our self while everything happens....
It is all in our interest i.e. to live in peace, joy, happiness, bliss.....
qualities of true self....
Choice exists..... to live with clear understanding of who we are.....

What we choose determines whether it is going to be satyug or kalyug for us.....

Question should be reframed to "Do we really know what we wish for"....


Sushil Jain

-------------------------------------------------------
Dear Divine, pranams.
BG: " Mamaivaansho jeevaloke..." We are an atom of God so He resides in us.
Establish the relationships with your TRUE SELF first and rest will be
understood automatically!!!

Vedic Shaanti Mantra: "Aum sham no mitrah... namaste vaayo, tvamev pratyaksham
brahmaasi..." this atom within us is connected to THE SELF via breath which is
considered as brahman ITSELF. Without breath, nothing is perceived, no
realization so be conscious of it.

BG: "Omityekaaksharm..." Om sound is the primordial sound that represents the
Divinity within us - everything starts from IT and everything merges in IT.
Chant it, hear it being chanted (outloud or in silence - doesn't matter) and
realize IT. You can chant any mantra but know that as you become silent within
they all merge in OM - more so to the lingering sound of Ommmmmm - naadbindu.

Heads up: want to share my experience - our mind wants to run away from what is
good for the SELF so be watchful. While chanting align your breath with it and
keep on listening to yourself also. Mind will distract & either you will forget
to watch the breath or forget to listen to yourself chant but keep bringing your
attention back to both chanting & breath awareness.

Good luck!
Humble regards,
always at Thy Lotus Feet

Manjula Patel

-------------------------------------------------





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If one has no desire to chant, but still accepts Krishna as The Absolute Truth,
can he consider himself as being still fortunate ? I use to chant, but now i
have no desire too. Could this mean that i have been cursed ?
OM TAT SAT
Dave

--------------------------------------------


Glories of Chanting the Lord's Name - 1

Naamsankirtanam yasya sarvapaappranaashanam  |

Pranaamo dukhshamanastam namaami harirm param ||  (Srimad Bhagwat 12/13/23)

"I prostrate respectfully to That Supreme Essence, Shri Hari, whose Name is
chanted,  the destroyer of all sins and bowing to Whom all sorrows come to an
end."

In this Kaliyug, the Divine Name of the Lord it most glorious of all.  The
glories of chanting the Divine Name is in all four "yugs" -  Satya, Treta,
Dvaapar and Kali (four ages of the world).  However,  in Kaliyug the chanting of
the Lord's Name is main premise, the greatest support,  the basic foundation. 
It is the Divine Name of the Lord that will easily lead one to Salvation and it
is the best of all spiritual disciplines.

One, the Divine Name is "maansik" japa,  one is "upaanshu"  japa, one is
"saadhaaran japa" and one is "sankirtan" .   "Maansik" japa is that in which the
Divine Name is chanted silently within the mind, where neither the throat, the
tongue or the lips move.  "Upaanshu"  japa is that in which the mouth is closed,
but with the throat and tongue the japa is taking place, and it cannot be heard
by the ears.   "Saadhaaran" japa is that in which the ears can hear and others
can also hear.   "Sankirtan" is that in which with musical notes and melody in a
loud voice and tone, one chants the Divine Name.  Besides the Divine Name, one
may also sing about the Lord's divine sports, His qualities, His power and
majesty etc. In all of this, the chanting of the Divine Name is the easiest and
best of all.

Just as in the case of Divine Name repetition that is done in the mind, the more
that the mind becomes immersed in God, the better it will be, similarly,  in
chanting the Lord's Name, along with the beats and tone, and the melody and
musical notes, chanting in a higher pitch, the more that one becomes immersed
while chanting the Lord's Name, that much better it will be.

The mind must become engaged in God and blissful while chanting the Lord's Name.
It means that whether others are looking or not, whether others are chanting or
not, whether the chanting has any affect on others -  such sentiments should not
remain at all in the mind.  Such sentiments are a great obstacle in one's
salvation.   When showmanship and worldly impression of name-fame comes into
chanting the Lord's Name, the power of the Divine Name does not have much
effect.

The three impressions that exist are -  impressions of people, body, and
scriptures.  Similarly there are three desires -  money, progeny, and honor. 
All these lead to great downfall.   Even after chanting the Divine Name,  doing
auspicious work, associating with holy company and Truth,  giving discourses, 
sharing the Lord's divine pastimes, when one blends with the filth of
impressions and desires, the glories of chanting the Lord's Name do not remain. 
However, Divine Name recitation, divine stories, chanting the Lord's Name,
association with Truth never goes wasted.  There will definitely be benefits
from it.  But due to these desires and worldly impressions,   one does not
benefit significantly from these, rather there is very little benefit.   (to be
continued)

From book "Kalyaan Path" in Hindi by Swami Ramsukhdasji
**********************************************************************
TO READ MESSAGE IN HINDI PLEASE VISIT:
http://www.satcharcha.blogspot.com
Titled "Sankirtan ki Mahima - 1" on Jan 14, 2011.

**********************************************************************
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ENGLISH:  www.swamiramsukhdasji.net

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radhe radhe.

please help me convince the lady of my dreams that it is okay to marry again.her
husband was abusive and abandoned her. he made it clear he has moved on and in a
relationship with his attorney. i have known this lady for years and she is what
i have prayed for--devoted,good, kind and very loving to god and all his
devotees.she is afraid that it is a sin to remarry. the sadakas here are very
knowledgeable and i am sure that you can explain to this good lady that she is
doing no wrong if she marries again. her family have given their blessings and
will be the happiest to see her happily married this time.

radhe radhe.

a sadaka.
vbp

----------------------------------------------------


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Respected Sadhaks of this Enlightened group ,,

I am a private sector professional aged 52 , working in Surat , Gujarat .
I read all the posts here regularly and have gained a lot from the messages
posted by all the wise souls here .
I stay alone here and am away from 730 AM to 730 pm at work .
Rest of the time I read various spiritual books .
I feel the need of a living Guru who can guide me in my spiritual progress .
Can this group please help me .

Respectful Pranaams ,

Hemant H Jadhav

---------------------------------------
Shree Hari Ram Ram

Namasteji, Along with all your other spiritual books, you may also spend some
time listening to lectures and question and answers, and also reading from the
following links pertaining to GURU.

Let us know if some points are not clear to you and you need clarification.

At your service,
Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

------------------------------------------

shree hari ram ram

PLEASE LISTEN TO FEW RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS BY SWAMIJI WHEN ASKED ABOUT A GURU :
http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net/Audio/Audio-QA-Guru-Saint.htm

Here are some very good links related to Guru / Sat Guru

KYA GURU BINA MUKTI NAHIN in HINDI

http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijibooks/pustak/pustak1/html/kya%20guru%20b\
ina%20mukti%20nahi/main.html

"Is Salvation Not Possible without a Guru?" You may view a few of the chapters
at:

http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net/ebooks.html

Sadhak message links on Guru are at :

What is a True Spiritual Guide like?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1161

Gita's View on Guru - Part I & II
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1129
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1130

Who is the Real Guru?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/2597
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/2598

Is it Essential for a Guru to be a Self Realized Soul ?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1926

On Guru Disciple Relationship
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1903

On Guru - Sishya
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1105

Is it not Essential to Engage in Guru Disciple Relationship ?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1819

Worship of Guru - Part 1
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1738

Worship of Guru - Part 2
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1739

On Having Lost Faith in a Guru
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/2529

God is Guru of this Universe
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1661

Sri Krishna is the Guru and Gita is the Mantra
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/2449

Qualities of a True Spiritual Guide or Guru
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1659

Real Guru is your discrimination
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1547

There is no Sin in letting go of false Guru
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1484

Who can be considered a Guru?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1301

================================================

Gita Talk discussion links related to GURU are at:

How to recognize a Satguru
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/4512

Guru Related Questions
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/4476

Please Help - My huge Dilemma about a Guru - as I am in association of a Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/3591

Can a Woman Make Someone a Guru?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/2912

Can There Be No Liberation Without a Guru ?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/1844

Guru Worship related
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/1121



===============================================

Hari Om

Guru is not the name of any individual made of flesh and bones. Guru is the name
of 'guidance' ! It can come to you in any form...situation, circumstance, child,
enemy, happening, books, ..any form. Keep your eyes and ears open, Guru will
reach you when you require. You need not search ! You just keep 'spiritual'
pursuits alive in you. There are no licenses issued by Lord for any pimps in
your path towards Him. Your Guru is sitting right inside you in the form of
Viveka. Krishna is Guru of all. Read good books, read Gita, do not cause harm to
any one...enough ! There is no need of Guru other than Satsanga, Satcharcha,
Sadvichaar .. !

Those who state that Guru is necessary, are cheating you, defrauding you...!
Such people direct you towards themselves rather than towards Govind. Beware of
such people...!!! Whoever says Guru made of flesh and bones is necessary for
Jeeva, is fraud...mark my words.

This Divine Forum has dealt with this Guru thing very extensively. Browse
through old postings on this subject. Read them very carefully. At the end of
reading this very desire for finding the Guru will end forever ! Do it..!!!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

-------------------------------------------

Dear sadak,
No living Sat Guru will keep his disciple with him on long term. After Updesh he
will send disciple away to practice what taught. Guru who keep disciple along
with him long term he is not sat guru. Ref: scripts from Adi Sankara. If you
earnestly love GOD, the Guru come to you.
B.S

------------------------------------------

The role of book, Guru, technique is over when you felt comfortable with your
uncomfortableness(pain and uncertainty) and saw the emergence of relaxed and
conscious action.
Truth is realized when you are comfortable with pain, uncertainty,
contradictions, confusion, ambiguity, negativity, that is, you do not treat them
as alien, you do not reject them as not belonging to you.

Y V Chawla

----------------------------------------------
Desciple - Teacher - Knowledge …



The SENSE OF NEED for a live teacher is as natural as the very birth. The only
way we know of learning anything since our inception is by mimicking a live
demonstration accessible to our cognitive mechanism. Therefore, I understand
your yearning for a "live" Guru.



Human intellect has progressed commendably in abstracting the essence of
knowledge that is mimicked by the human race for millenniums in terms of texts
and images. Yet, the efficiency of communication remains merely a fraction when
compared to live communication. It is but natural since the abstractable images
from the senses into our memorial vocabulary remains a mere fraction when
compared to the holistic appreciation we inculcate in any activity! Our learning
channels are abundant on the empathetic and intuitive sides. In fact, these two
channels are found to be most effective and efficient as they directly interact
with our right hemisphere - PRESENCE! Abstract information always draws heavily
on memorial backyard. Memory being faded and even mixed-up over time, the
channel remains long and inefficient. This article is a living testimonial for
this!!! In addition, spirituality remains most abstract in spite of its
simplistic highlights in terms of acceptance, submission, etc. BECAUSE it cannot
be traced and tracked in existential experiences directly! Therefore, I can
empathize your need for a "live" Guru for spiritual teaching in particular.



And, yet, I would like to bring out couple of essential factors for "learning"
here. Learning itself is very subtle. It remains extremely subtle particularly
when one deals with a "non-existential" idea such as "Self" or "God"! The only
way to approach the very KNOWLEDGE is with a deeply sincere submission to learn.
Our seers and scriptures are very vocal about such "SHISHYATTVA" or
"STUDENTHOOD". ONE CAN'T LEARN ANYTHING WITHOUT THREE FUNDAMENTAL QUALITIES OF A
TRUE STUDENT:



1. AWARENESS OF LACK OF KNOWLEDGE WITHIN.

2. EXPERIENCING ACUTE NEED FOR THE KNOWLEDGE.

3. PRO-ACTIVE APPROACH TO RIGHT SOURCES OF KNOWLEDGE.



A student should acknowledge studenthood within and nurture the same to
percolate into subtle sediments of information within and around. Being
positively focused, vigilant and active makes the foundation for the studenthood
- Tasyai tapo damah karmeti pratishThaa!



To a determined student, nothing can be anything other than a GURU, source of
knowledge, Veda. The very awareness for looking for knowledge everywhere is the
thirst for knowledge that is churned in the tri-modal - Tapa-Dama-Karma -
studenthood within. The learning grows when everything is explored with keen
learners' disposition to let the knowledge bloom and fill one's very existence -
Vedaah Sarvaangaani!!



All learning remains mere intellectual gymnastics if one lapses to appreciate
and pursue nothing but TRUTH in the quest. Without THE TRUTH all remains false
and hence the associated information as well … even the information regarding
the very TRUTH. Any piece of information turns to deep awareness if THE TRUTH is
kept in the pedestal of the search and research - Satyamaayatanam!!!



Ignorance is the notion of knowing, doing and enjoying. One becomes stupid by
concluding that one knows! One becomes impotent by claiming to have done
anything!! One becomes insentient by believing to have enjoyed anything!!! The
true power of disciplehood is to cutoff such notions at their very roots. The
very right to be a student is forfeited as soon as any of these notions are
harbored or nurtured. Disciplehood engages a battle directly on the ignorance
within. That is the power of being a disciple within - THE FREEDOM FROM
IGNORANCE.



Therefore, my dear friend, embrace TRUE STUDENTHOOD first. Then how can the GURU
escape you?! Anything and everything are obliged to be your GURU when you are
committed to be a disciple within. The mahaavaakya for a true disciple,
therefore, becomes "Gurumayam Sarvamidam Jagat!".



Again, a word of caution regarding the subtlety of sustaining such FREEDOM FROM
IGNORANCE! Embrace the five-fold learning resolution (SHRADDHAA) -
Tapa-Dama-Karma-Veda-Staya - tightly. The path is like a razor blade edge. Any
slight slip from the five-fold SHRADDHAA would bleed you. You may even slip away
into the oblivious darkness of ignorance. Therefore, approach the KNOWLEDGE
(GURU) with subtlest awareness of DESCIPLEHOOD (SHUSHYA) within.



UttishThata! Jaagrata!! Praapya varaannibodhata |

Kshurasya dhaaraa nishitaa duratyayaa durgam pathastatkavayo vadanti ||



REMEMBER! YOU WILL INSTANTLY FORFEIT THE GURU (AND HENCE KNOWLEDGE) WHEN YOU
SLIP FROM DESCIPLEHOOD!!



Let me salute THE LIFE and all ITS existential and non-existential components
for ITS Abundant Grace with ITS Abundant Knowledge vested in everything THAT IT
EVER IS.



Sri Gurubhyonnamah ! Harih Om!



Respects.



Naga Narayana.
------------------------------------------------------

Do you need a spiritual friend or a spiritual guru?

I have need of spiritual friends and companionship. But after reading Swami
Ramsukhdasji books, the formal guru is not required anymore.

At His feet in service,
G B

-----------------------------------------
As learnt from Swameejee :
Do not regard the mind and intellect as yours. The moment this happens, at that
very same moment, who ever you come together with, that you do not know, but is
that and that alone.

IN HINDI
Man aur Buddhi ko apanee mat maano. jis kshan aisaa huaa, usee kshanase jisase
judanaa huaa, use jaanataa to naheen par vahee hai aur vahee hai.
Humbly,
Saadhaka

------------------------------------------
Dear Ones, Namaste!

HemantJi, Already Moderators have suggested Swamiji's books and talks on Guru
for your help!

As long as there remains a strong need for a living Guru, you will end up
finding one.
However, it is not necessary to go looking for one. I would rather continue
seeking truth by becoming a sincere and honest disciple to deserve a Guru.
Longing for the Truth will bring you all that you need at your doorstep or take
you to the door where you will find it. I can tell this from my experience!
For a sincere sadhak, universe will make sure he gets what he needs.

No one is Guru for everyone. Disciple-Guru relationship is born upon prolong
Satsangs in which sadhak feels his questions are answered and as a result a
great deal of reverence is born for such a being naturally! All of a sudden
sadhak finds a Guru in front of him, that is all! Guru never calls himself a
Guru, for he knows it is God speaking through him for the benefit of that
Sadhak.

Living Guru can be of great help because not only he/she teaches with words, but
with his presence, way of living, body gestures, and with his silence! Sadhak
has to spend a great deal of time in his presence when that happens!

Keep a flame burning in your heart for Truth, don't extinguish it by going
around looking for Guru!
Actually when you look for Spiritual help, it is Truth itself stirring in you to
shake off ignorance!

Namaskar....... Pratap Bhatt

--------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,
Guru gives Knowledge (Athuma Gyan). By interrogation and discussion only a sadak
becomes perfection can be seen in various scripts. In that manner, what ever
possible you may question to quickly understand Sanatha Dharm.
B.S

-----------------------------------------------
The Sat Guru is indeed the most important
asset a human can have in a lifetime.

SatGuru has power to enlighten the
five recesses of ones hriday kosh as
all five mahatatvas lies dormant there
called kurushetra and when activated
the dharamshetra in Geeta.

The sadguru burns the mortal bhavas in
chetan ansh and remove ill desire of attachment with this mortal world after 
enlightening
the immortal divine atam prakash in hridaya
kosh.

The enlightened guru is thus quoted akin to a
convex lens that can help sadhak focus the Sun rays symbolic of atam prakash and
burn the black paper symbolic of ill desire of loving mortals or impure chetan
thus after enlightenment of heart dharamshetra

the same Jad ansh do nishkaam karmas with the purified chetan and remains
constantly enlightened by enlightened heart and

when Jad and chetan dies the
heart atam prakash mearges into
param atma
the kingdom of lights
and join the divine club of immortals.

"Dr. Puneet Gupta"

---------------------------------------------

To mr hemant jadhav
With reference to your enquiry about finding a guru, you have to change & become
a modern person
Have you not heard of the saying

All work & no play makes jack a dull boy. Or

He who enjoys only pleasures will surely get the plague
But he who enjoys no pleasures will wither away

You see god has given us the senses to relax & enjoy after doing hard work. The
hindu philosophy does not say to give up all pleasures but to keep them under
control. The gita clearly states that to follow the middle path in life is the
best way to happiness
It appears you are confused in life, looking for a guru
The only true guru to me is lord krishna who has revealed to me
That the only way to achieve the highest in life in any field
It is om not by repeating it as our indians have been doin for 3000 years
without understanding it   but doing the yogic beathing exercise which is the
true meaning of om
Is to do it daily this  exercise pranayam to be done 20 times in the morning. 
Why
Because it is like aaaooooommmmmmmmmm....the last part produces vibrations in
the brain & awakening the sleeping brain cells so that the persons intelligence
level increases manifold & finds  the answers to all problems & questions
without the need of a human guru many of whom are  in any case  a doubtful lot

  after a few months you will have all the answers you seek, otherwise
discontinue it
Going for movies, meeting friends over dinner or otherwise is also a from of
satsang. Do not deny yourself the pleasures of the senses given by the gods
Do it. Start from tommorrow
Best of luck
balbir singh

-------------------------------------------
Dear All,
Namaskar!
For getting a living spiritual Sat Guru the most important is
the cent percent urge to achieve a particular stage in the path
of enlightenment. The mother nature is so loving and sympathetic
that Sat Guru set his journey to reach the deserving Shesh to
quench his thirst of getting true Sat Guru for the purpose he has
cent percent urge to get!!!

Jai Sri Krishna!!

Kuldeep Kaul
-------------------------------------------------

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http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net (english)
http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org (hindi)
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Shree Hari Ram Ram

THIS BRINGS CLOSURE TO THIS POSTING. THANK YOU ALL!
GITA TALK MODERATORS,  RAM RAM

--------------------------------------------



Shree Hari Ram Ram

There does not appear to be a word in English equivalent to"Vishwaas". Per
dictionary "Vishwaas" is trust, faith, confidence, belief, reliance - all of the
above. In Swamiji's words "Vishwaas" is that faith, confidence that - " Bhagwaan
(God) exists (IS) and that He is our very own, "

Please share your insights / understanding of "Vishwaas", and understanding of
Swamiji's message, specifically that - 1) "Vishwaas" (trust, faith, confidence,
belief, reliance) 2) Relations and 3) Actions - all three of these should not be
opposing to our power of discrimination. (in Hindi - Vishwaas, sambandh aur
karma, yeh teeno vivek virodhi nahin hone chahiye) Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

------------------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,
Vishwas is unshakable faith in Bhagavan during happiness and sorrow. If one
fails in faith when in distress, it is NOT Vishwas.
B.S

----------------------------------------------

Dear Gita-Talk member,

"Vishwas" is trust, faith, truthfulness, belief, etc.. Once
you "develop" vishwas in divine by "throwing all your physical thoughts"
and praying in your thinking then, at some point in time, later, your
communication
with God/divine, the rest of your life will develop in that direction.

There is no other way. God Luck! Bye!

Notesh Otes

---------------------------------------------------
Radhey ! Radhey !!

There are 3 paths- Karma Yoga, Jnana Yoga and Bhakti Yoga. There is one guide-
DISCRIMINATION- Viveka.

   In Karma Yoga, Karma is essence. Hence your karma should be in consonance/in
accordance with Viveka. Karma Yogi continues relationship (connection)- SAMBANDH
with World.By using discrimination, yogi merely does karma for others and not
for self.That is viveka driven karma. The moment your Karma is not against the
Viveka, it ceases to bind you, it becomes Akarma. Hence Swamiji said: Karma
should not be against Viveka.

In Jnana Yoga - the Yogi recognises no relationship with world- GUNA GUNESHU
VARTANTE. Discrimination guides him/her that he/she is not connected with/having
any relationship with body/world at all. Hence where it comes to relationship,
he/she rejects any connection/relationship with world. That is discrimination
driven relationship. Hence Swamiji said: Your relationship should not be against
the dictates of Viveka.

In Bhakti Yoga- there is VISHWAS. A Bhakta 'believes' first and 'knows' later
on. This belief again has to be viveka driven. ' I am God's, God is mine' is
Vishwaas but ' Nothing else is mine' is viveka. Here role of viveka makes you
DOUBTLESS ! Hence your faith should be solid/firm...viveka driven in other
words..doubtless ! Hence Swamiji said your vishwas should not be against
Viveka...it should be doubtless, it should be exclusive ! Viveka by its dictate:
Doosaro Na Koi makes your belief viz Mere To Girdhar Gopal a solid/doubtless
faith.

Radhey ! Radhey !!

Nisha Chatterji

----------------------------------------------

Hari Om

I am of God; God is mine; THIS IS VISHWAS Nothing else is mine- THIS IS VIVEKA !
When Taat Shree (Swamiji) stated VISHWAS should not be opposing to Viveka - He
meant "Mere to Girdhar Gopal" (Vishwas) should be accompanied with "Doosaro no
Koi" ( Viveka) !! In other words, vishwas should not be anti-viveka ! It should
not be : God is mine, World is mine...! Affirmation should be accompanied with
negation (nishedh) !

What is "viveka-virodhi sambandha (connection opposed to Viveka)" ? To accept
body to be "me or mine or for me" is anti-viveka connection. No person can ever
realise Paramatma by considering (believing/accepting.. Having VISHWAS ) body to
be me/mine/for me, in other words having 'vivek virodhi sambandha' ! Your
VISHWAS should not be VIVEKA VIRODHI ; and your CONNECTION should not be
Viveka-virodhi.

Swamiji stated that vishwas , sambandha and karma should not be anti-viveka
because in all 3 viz Karma Yoga (karma), Jnana Yoga (connection), and Bhakti
Yoga (Vishwas) - viveka is essential. 'I am not body' - with this Viveka only
there arises 'abhilasha' for Liberation. Here you get disconnected. Leave aside
Liberation, even desire for Heavens etc viz for higher Lokas, arises only upon
the aforesaid Viveka of considering Self to be different than
body...disconnection. Both 'tyaag' (renunciation) and 'seva'
(selfless/expectationless service) are accomplished by Viveka and not by Karma.

All human beings are eligible for God Realisation ONLY because of God granted
Viveka ! Every human by giving importance to this Viveka ( in Swamiji's
aforesaid words by not having anti-viveka these 3 viz belief/connection/karma )
and by making this Viveka cleaner through Satsanga and Svaadhyaay , rise above
and realise Paramatma !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------------------------------------

By default we humans have automatic extinct to survive this mortal world.

The Guru and scriptures tells us to develop faith in
everlating truth or Sat.

Geeta tells a way to do it.

we humans have three subparts
Jad
Chetan
Atma

Jad is non innervated body parts

Chetan is indriya,manas and budhi

atma is in hridaya kosh.

when one get rid of default attachment
or bhava with this mortal world after
purification of chetan

through fourteen yagyas as in Geeta

then the atam prakash in heart is revealed
the divya Jyoti makes one aware of
oneness and then and then only
one gets firm belief or vishwass
in everlasting truth or Sat tatav
in everyone whether scorpian or
snake or man or women.

and leaves moha or attachment to mortals.

"Dr. Puneet Gupta"

----------------------------------------

Jai Shri Hari

I agree with "Mr KrishnaJi" about the literal meaning of VISWAAS as "VI" (
vishisTa i.e. special) + "SWAAS" (breathe). In my understanding, the way breathe
gives power to the body, the VISWAAS gives power/confidence to the jeev/self.

The VISWAAS is generally used in two ways.1) To accept without any inquiry and
2) Feelings. It starts with the acceptance and builds the feelings which has a
potential to be converted into realization if it is associated with the
SAT/TRUTH (Gitaji 17/27).

We can see few of its usages in Maanas by Goswami TulasidasJi.
1) a) SADGURU VAIDYA VACHAN VISWAASAA | SANJAM YAH NA VISHHAYA KAI AASHAA ||
(Maanas: 7/122-3).
Here, the suggestion is to accept (i.e. believe/trust upon) the instructions
given by Guru and Doctor.

b) "VINU VISWAAS BHAGATI VINU TEHI VINU DRAWAHI NA RAAM" (7/90A)
Here also, GoswamiJi says "GOD can not be touched/realized unless one accepts
him and take refuge in him".

2) MORE MAN PRABHU US VISWAASAA | RAAM TE ADHIK RAAM KAR DAASAA || (Maanas:
7/120/8)
Here, GoswamiJi is saying about his feeling that "Bhakt/Sewak/Devotee is
superior to RAAM (i.e. GOD)".

Regarding the alignment of VISWAAS, RELATIONSHIP, ACTION and VIVEK, for the
truth-seeker, all four are used to the attain the same supreme goal without any
contradiction though they work in different areas. ACTION an VIVEK are used in
the world to get rid of the attachment to the world as they are LAUKIK NISHTHA
(Gitaji 3/3) whereas the VISWAAS is used to realize our true RELATIONSHIP with
our SUPREME SELF. In my understanding, all of these help each other too though
they work in different areas.

Thanks & Best Regards
Niteesh Dubey

------------------------------------------------------

You are confident in action not because you are sure about the result or future
or you believe in God- but because you see that β€˜to seek surety about result
or future’ is to drain your energy, is to burden the mind with something,
which is not its domain.

Action becomes relaxed and conscious. You are attuned to the Original, to God.
Y V Chawla

---------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sadhak,
There are long interpretations but as a practical reciter of Bhgavata Gita,
faith is considered equivalent to Vishwasa Please refer to Chapter XVII verses 1
and 2 for its further explanation.When we have deep faith in God then he will
bless us,not by arguing with his interpretations

Om Jaya Sri Krishna
I have faith in you
I have viswhwas in you
A re you satisfied

Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt
---------------------------------------

Hari Om

With due respect to all and with all the humility at my command, I beg to state
that there is too much cereberal talk in these pages and very little practice.
Let us be at least good Karma yogis and surrender the fruits of our action to
the Lord.

Lord bless all.

Shivkumar Israni

-----------------------------------------


-------------------------------------------

What is Vishwaas? Thoughts on Vishwaas …

Vocabulary is just a tip of the iceberg. Even the apparently mundane word such
as "cup" is just a hint for what a cup would really be. We have developed so
much confidence (vishwaas) in the vocabulary that we use in our daily
transaction we develop a belief (vishwaas) that the names or words (Naama) used
are absolutely representative of the object that is referred to!

We try to trivialize the universe in terms of Naama (word), Roopa (image) and
Karma (action). We fragment the monolithic existence (Sat) into the illusive
fragments (Asat) in our imagination in terms of words, images and actions in our
mind and start insisting that the universe is a bunch of such fragments that we
could ever hoard in the junkyard of our memory. That is the precise reason why
the universe appears real ONLY AS fragmented (Dwaita), momentary (Martya) and
ever-changing (Jagat). The belief developed by the mind is so strong that it
takes extraordinary effort to convince the mind that what it sees as "real" is
actually unreal and "The Real" is what it is and what everything else is as far
as it stops projecting its randomly discrete images on its own infinitely
fractured screen to make up a belief of what the world "should be" in its own
framented vocabulary of words, images and actions.

But, yet, as the creatures that we are, we are helpless but to depend on the
very words, images and actions to appreciate our lives within as well as the
life around. Nothing wrong in being respectful to the Naama, Roopa and Karma as
far as the focus is on The Life rather than the pieces of information gathered
regarding the same in terms of the resulting vocabulary and imagery. To me
Viswaasa means "to be", the universal reality, THAT ABSOLUTE which encompasses
everything in the universe, which lives within everything in the universe, and
which remains the very basis for all our existence as well as awareness.

Vishwaasa is something that transcends all our notions and hence represents the
non-notional appreciation of anything. In other words, an absolutely objective
appreciation of the life as is with no taints of subjective vocabulary, imagery
and tendencies is Vishwaasa. In a way it represents the perfect union of Yoga,
Gnyaana and Bhakti - absolute essence of existence, awareness and experience.
Vishvaasa means the absolute integrity across ones body, mind and speech
(Kaayaa, Vaachaa and Manasaa) in ones appreciation of the life. Vishvaasa is
where all the conflicts, polarities and dualities in one's perceieved existence
are dissolved into the essence of all in absolute unison.

Respects.

Naga Narayana

----------------------------------------------

There is a great Shakespearean drama called Much Ado about Nothing.

This falls in the same category.

Is Guru equal to a Teacher ?

Is Vishvaas or Bharosaa equal to Faith or Trust ?

You can split this however you want and as many times----
but it means the one and the same thing, unless you are out
to prove that only Sanskrit based words have a full meaning !

D. Mankikar,MD
--------------------------------------------

Vishwas (Implicit faith, being free of all doubts) mein hee Vish (poison) ka
Vaas (place where it lives) Hain.
This is what the world has proved

Shivkumar
--------------------------------------------
Vishwas means faith. In spirituality it means faith in God and your Guru.
Sambandh means relation and it means in spirituality your relation with God.
Karma means action and in spirituality it means good deeds performed without
hankering for the fruits of such actions. When you say that all three should not
go against vivek or the power of discrimination it means that the sadhak should
be such that his powers of discrimination should not clash against faith in God,
proper relations with the Parmatma and performance of good deeds.
Hari Shanker Deo

----------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING

Vishwaas ...........

silent inner "knowing'" beyond intellect ................

the Gift of God

that invokes the self to choose the self , with all the self

and, walk the Way

unto God's heart ........................


AUM
narinder bhandari

-------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Friends,

Vishwas is simple belief without investigating or experiencing.
It can have no basis and one can have false beliefs leading to false
experiences and evil deeds in in name of misguided beliefs. But shraddha or
belief after deep tapas or experience of the divine
consciousness is what is the true meaning of viswas. This is translated by the
word faith of an extraordinary kind which comes after deep reverence or bhakti
and becomes experiential. Thiswill lead to Self discovery.
Dr. Vispi Jokhi
PS Hope this is brief and well understood.
------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,
The exact meaning of Vishwas is "complete and implicit faith". Faith in what
good is heard, from saints, scriptures and God. Example: Sri Krishna said to
Gopies who wanted to cross the flooded Yamuna river to give food to Saint
Durvasa, "Oh gopies, tell the river that I (Sri Krishna) am Nitya Bhramachari
(Eternal Celibate) and the river will part ways to let you cross it". Gopies
laughed first but having "Vishwas" in Bagavan they told the river Bhagwaan's
words with whole heartedness, and the river DID part to let them cross over to
the other side.
B.Sathyanarayan

---------------------------------------------

Dear Ones Namaste!
I see vishwaas being more potent than belief, the former has experiential
knowing as its base, the later may be based on tradition one is born into, or
someone in whom one has Vishwaas, trust, tells one to believe. Ultimately belief
needs to resolve in knowing beyond any shadow of doubts to be Vishwaas! I can
understand belief playing a role in spiritual practice. But one must go beyond
it to know first handed by looking into one's own experience specially in
spiritual matters, and God realization.

Belief cannot be called Anubhuti(Self-Realization), however, vishwaas is rooted
in Anubhuti. Realization is one's own Anubhuti. In practical life belief and
vishwaas are used interchangeably, but in spiritual context, it is not
equivalent in my view.
God is anubhutirupah, He is wordless inner experience of Impersonal Conscious
Presence(God), verbalized/conceptualized for seekers and scriptures! Thus, God
is not a matter of belief, rather, is a matter of knowing, experiencing. It is
Awareness aware of Awareness Itself shredding all identifications with
objects(notions, beliefs, ideas, concepts) liberating Itself from them!
It is like waking up from the waking dream!
Put in another way, God is "experiencing" itself present in all experiences,
itself remaining constant, and attributeless, not to be experienced as object of
perception or conception!
When we say God is beyond knowledge, it means He is unknowable as any other
object of the world by mind and sense organs which only conceive and limit
objects. However, God is Limitless, Perceiving Subject itself, Experiencing
itself, knowingness itself, Being itself, and is our own inner continuous
experience right now. He is not knowledge, rather Knowingness behind all
knowledge! He is shining as all bodies, all minds! He is Impersonal
Intelligence, Beauty in nature, Love, Compassion, Peace and Harmony, and deep
abiding Silence in emptiness!
And this is my Vishwaas!
Namaskar.....Pratap Bhatt
---------------------------------------

Viswas is the great and strong belief on the guru vakya.Through viswas only the
curtain between the guru and shishya becomes non -existant.It is the key to open
the storehouse of guru
Badri Narayana Miriyala

-----------------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,
"VISHWAS"?. One has to be faithful to Guru and Sri Govind. One has to be
faithful to sastras. One has to be faithful to his wife/husband/children as Sri
Rama. One has to be faithful a friend like Sri Krishna to Kuchela. One has to
faithful to pancha boothas water by offering water to plants, by serving foods
to birds/animals, being faith to agni by doing agni hotri. Faithful to earth by
keeping earth clean, faithful to Aakash (Sky) by not poluting Etc. And faithful
to ones own mind by being having pure thoughts for loka kalyan, faithful to body
as a temple where Bagavan abides by not eating non-veg and not drinking alcohol,
Etc. This vishwas leads one to divinity. Many saints fell when faith was lost. A
small thought for a second is enough in serious trouble, "Whether God exit or
Not". Some saints arose to heaven when they were having Vishwas even in most
serious situations. Like Baktha Gora trampled his child in mud by mistake, but
remained firm on Sri Vital. Bagavan sent flying object (Pushpaka Viman) to Sri
Tukaram. He had faith and he went to Vaikunt. Where as his wife had no faith in
her husband words, remained on earth. Jesus asked the man who saw Jesus walking
on water, to come to HIM. The man thus walked and reached Jesus, but drowed when
he thought "What if I drown". Abosolute faith. Faith can move mountains is
proverb.
B.Sathyanarayan
------------------------------------------------------

=====================

PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

VISHWAS means BELIEF ! Other words frequently used in Scriptures are : Faith ,
Shraddha, Trust, Acceptance, Reliance for this BELIEF ! "To believe" is one of
the ONLY three powers which JEEVA has ! JEEVA has powers of 1. To do something:
2. To know something and 3 To believe something. Apart from these three powers
JEEVA has no powers. As against these three powers , Jeeva has 3 desires to
fulfill. 1 To do something. 2 To know something 3 To get something.
JEEVA uses Power to "do something" in Karma Yoga and thereby Jeeva DOES that
after doing which nothing remains to be done …the very desire "to do"
extinguishes. Jeeva uses Power to "know something" in Jnana Yoga and thereby
Jeeva KNOWS that after knowing which nothing remains to be known. Jeeva uses
Power to "believe something" in Bhakti Yoga and thereby GETS that after getting
which nothing remains to be got…the very desire to get something extinguishes
!!!
Coming to observations of Param Shraddheya Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj
regarding Power of Belief; Doing and Knowing (sambandh) not being opposed to
Viveka :

It is an old habit of Jeeva that where it should place Faith .. He tries to
"know" ( Who is God? How is He? Is He there? How does He look? Proof ? What is
my "sambandh"- connection? ) And where he should "do" or "know" ( The world/
Jeeva ) he believes !! Religion, particularly Sanatan Dharma, and Saints like
Swamiji let you use these powers correctly.

Swamiji therefore wants here to place your POWER OF BELIEF correctly. Why?

Because, it is observed that Jeeva mostly MUST believe to begin with. Take for
example… Who is our this birth Father? What kind of knowledge we can claim to
possess as to who is our father of this birth? Hence we have no choice but to
"believe" ! Later on, as one becomes older …his walking/talking style' mannersm
etc tend to become like that of his father and they become so apparent that
people start guessing that he must be son of Mr So and So !! Same is the case
with Paramatma. You don't have any choice except to "believe" in His existence
and in His being yours. (Sambandh/ Connection) Later on, by His Grace …your
belief gets strengthened and you REALISE Him.

Now out of habit we place vishwas with reference to world. Regarding your belief
that "I am of world; world is mine" (connection/sambandh) .. Swamiji wants you
to use Viveka ! BUT NOT for - " I am of God; God is mine", because here Viveka
has no role, Vishwas has a role.

Basically, Power of " To know" something and "to do something" CAN ONLY be
exercised with reference to the world and Jeeva …these powers have no role in
God Realisation. Power "to believe something" is with reference to Paramatma ,
who is BEYOND KNOWLEDGE ! The power of belief is exercised therefore at those
places where Jeeva has no direct knowledge available to him.

"Vishwas" or "Belief" can not be called to be "anbhooti" or "experience" by any
stretch of imagination. Belief in fact is placed by Jeeva…without any direct
experiential knowledge. But, if placed correctly …"belief" tends to become
"knowledge" !! In the beginning…as stated "belief" is applied where there is no
reach of "knowledge" and hence "belief" and "knowledge" are exactly reverse to
each other.

In fact whenever Jeeva places "power of belief " with reference to the world....
WITHOUT applying discrimination ... he ultimately gets cheated .. his belief
invariably gets broken.. Unless he negates (discriminates) ! Reason: Power of
belief is exercisable with reference to Divine. (I am of God; Only God is mine;
THIS IS VISHWAS Nothing else is mine- THIS IS VIVEKA) ! When Taat Shree
(Swamiji) stated VISHWAS should not be opposing to Viveka - He meant "Mere to
Girdhar Gopal" (Vishwas) should be accompanied with "Doosaro no Koi" ( Viveka)
!! Meaning as Miraji Dass said "it should be DOUBTLESS !! How beautiful ! How
deep !! How Great !!! This is Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj for you, Divine
Sadhaks ! This is Divinity !! This is SAT !!!

The world and Jeeva are subject matter of 'knowledge' (and hence of Viveka) and
God is subject matter of 'belief ' (Acceptance/Shraddha/Trust/Vishwas) !
Similarly , the power "to know" or "to do" if applied with reference to
Paramatma become futile. (Also "viveka" too is futile- Refer Swamiji: Where
there predominance of Viveka there is no belief) ! Hence these two powers are
useful in getting "disconnection from world "ONLY , while power to believe is
useful in getting "connection with Paramatma" ! "Sambandh" in Hindi means
"connection" in English !!!

Indeed, where is belief if there is doubt? (Right You are Miraji Dass, as always
) ! "Viveka" discriminates ! Viveka doubts/eliminates and gets you knowledge in
the end... Makes you doubtless ! Vishwas starts with doubtlessness and never
looks back !! Thus, Where is doubt if there is knowledge? Where is Viveka if
there is Vishwas? Where is Vishwas if there is Viveka? Where is experience
(anubhooti) if there is belief ? Where is belief if there is knowledge ? Where
is knowledge if there is no experience ?

It is only the Grace of God (BG 7:21/17:2) which IN THE END converts "belief"
into "experience" or "knowledge" ! Sure.. ultimately, upon God/Self Realisation,
belief, experience, Viveka and knowledge ALL become ONE ! But not before
God/Self Realisation !! Hence for Sadhaks : Belief (Vishwas) and Knowledge
(Viveka) are two extreme poles- two independent ways !
AT ONE PLACE IT IS VISHWAS ! AT OTHER PLACE IT IS VIVEKA!!

There is so much to write on the topic.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Shree Hari Ram Ram

Sadhaks ... PLEASE REMEMBER ...... BREVITY !!!! It is a great loss... when a
sadhak unsubscribes only due to long postings.... PLEASE REMEMBER !!! Gita Talk
Moderators, Ram Ram

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
Vineetji and Meeraji have expressed beautifully the meaning of "Vishwaas"!
That knowledge which is experiential leaves no doubt whatsoever, and has power
to act through us! We may call it "Viswaas or Shraddha or trust, conviction, etc
which drive all our actions. Discrimination is inherent in such actions!

However, we use term "Vishwaas" or trust in our daily relationships with people
meaning that we either trust or don't trust people. Actually we really never
trust others, we trust "image" of others we have stored in our minds!
We also have our own image-me in the same mind and so in reality it is "image-me
trusting image-others" which unfortunately passes for relationship!
Even when we say we have vishwaas or trust or shraddha in God, it may still be
our image of God, based on acquired information about God and driven by desires
and fears!
As we move toward experiential knowing of God from such superficial knowledge of
God, discrimination happens automatically, and terms like Vishwaas, Trust ,
Shraddha take on extra-ordinary meaning for us! Images are replaced by true "I"
and true "others", and actions in relationships come alive!
Ultimately when one deeply understands beyond a shadow of doubt what one is, it
is this "understanding" that acts, not a person. God is just another name for
such Understanding.
With such understanding-anubhuti-realization, you trust God only, in all your
trusting and vishwaas!
Namaskar.....Pratap Bhatt

---------------------------------------------------

1. Vishwas is the understanding and practice, in daily life, of the Truth that
nothing in this Creation is independent and free and yet they are nothing but
the seen or unseen forms of the same, ultimate Creator.

In the spiritual context, the English word for Vishwas is Realization:
realization is nothing but trust, faith, belief, reliance, confidence and
acceptance without any doubt or question that anything less than realisation is
the bondage of illusion and ego.In other words, Vishwas is beyond the existence
and absebce of Abishwas.
2. Paratma is beyond description. Description of Paratma will always be
partially correct. The scriptures therefore describe Paratma in various, but
mutually non-conflicting ways. Such descriptions help the process of
understanding the concept of Paratma and reflect the Truth that in whatever way
one may describe Paratma, one cannot be wrong but one would still fail to fully
explain what Paratma is. Paratma is what one realises when all things, concepts
including the idea of atman and Paramatman just disappear from separate
existences..
3. True Vishwas is the state free of even vishwas and avishwas: When one reaches
the point that fails to distinguish between the concepts of avishwas and vishwas
(see1 above).
4. Vishwas is beyond Vivek, Vichar and ignorance: it is the Viswarjan of the
Self as an identity.
Basudeb Sen
-----------------------------------------------------
Respected Sir,

This word VISHWAS has troubled me for many years. Kindly let me know as to "Does
the word
VISHWAS have any relation to the word SHWAS (Breathing) ? Because while writing
in hindi, the spellings appear to have a relation with each other but the
meaning as far as my knowledge goes is unrelated. Pl enlighten.

Man Mohan Batra
-------------------------

Fellow learners,
Visvaasaha (you call it Vishvaas) is "vihita or visihta Svaasaha that is
elevated or exalted breath. Here breath should not be understood as merely
intaking and exhaling air into the lungs. For the seeker of the Truth Which is
one, but different people percieve it differently, the knowledge however little
it might be of the Truth gained (Inhaled) and the consequent action (Karma)that
eschews out, meant for universal welfare (chikeershuh Loka sangraham cf. 3.25,
Gita) is exhaling. Visvaasah is the combination of this Inhale and exhale.
It is true that in several non Indian languages this word does not exist with
the same aphoristic tenor. Belief, Faith etc may describe a part of Visvaasaha;
but cant be complete. Confidence is no where near Visvaasaha. Confidence is more
of secret sharing. It has Latin origin. Con means with and fidence is a
derivative and relative o fidelity.
Our mistake is that we try to find synonyms of all words in Sanskrit in western
languages. I explained the incompatibilty of Sin and Paapa. Sanskrit is a
language born out of the dire necessity to coin words for certain phenomenon
that
can or could not be described by existing languages. Thus words (some)in
Sanskrit can not be equvalently translated into other languages. I can give
several examples. but that will make the posting dreary.
Finally, Hela in Sanskrita is Hallow (how close sounding they are). As the
westerners have a habit of not letting out air through the mouth while talking H
is not pronounced as Hakaara. Hence Hela become Ela or with the halanta (ending
with consonant habit) it become El (in Hebrew it is the shining God), Elahi is
also from Hela.
I asked a friend to write Soola Mana in Arabic and Hebrew. The result was
Suleiman! Surprised. Do not be for me it was anticipated.
Krishna
-------------------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

In English what is called, I do not quite know. However, in Hindi, "Vishwaas" is
not just a word, rather it is "anubhooti", experiential knowledge, a
realization, by which the individual experiences within that which he is unable
to express in any words what is it that he is experiencing. Now, he is unable to
express in words, how much "vishwaas" (faith, belief, trust, reliance,
confidence) he has on "God IS" (Bhagwaan Hai) . For example you may say to
someone "I am thirsty", the other person gauges this thirst by his own
experience, and says I have understood how thirsty you are.

"Vishwaas" (trust, faith, confidence, belief, reliance) 2) Relations and 3)
Actions - all three of these should not be opposing to whose power of
discrimination? It must not be opposed to your own power of discrimination, and
only you can know whether your faith, relations and actions are opposed to your
power of discrimination or not. What can someone else tell you about this.

So be it,

Vineet Sarvottam

--------------------------------------------------------------

Shree Hari Ram Ram

Only addressing the first part, Swamiji has said that "Vishwaas" is that in
which one has no
doubt whatsoever. Where there is not even the slightest possibility of a doubt
arising. "Vishwaas" is free of all doubts, from the very beginning. Whereas,
inquiry (seeking to know, jnana marg) is on those things where there is some
element of doubt.

Meera Das, Ram Ram

--------------------------------------------------------------------



Vishwas comes only after one has surrendered (that is, mind has touched zero
ground).
Without touching zero ground, vishwas is simply an ego trip, a mental comfort.
Y V Chawla

---------------------------------------------------------

: Shree Hari:
Ram Ram

28th October, 2009, Wednesday, Karthik Shukla Dashami

Question: If no one is able to describe Paramatma (God), then the description of
God that is given in the scriptures and by words of Saints, how can we be sure
that it has a meaning, significance or purpose?

Answer: If one engages in their spiritual disciplines, as described in the
scriptures, then Paramatma will be surely realized, thus those descriptions are
useful.

Question: How can our "vishwaas" (trust, faith, confidence, belief, reliance) in
Bhagwaan (God) become "drdh" (fixed, firm, unyielding, solid and strong)?

Answer: By giving up "vishwaas" (trust, faith, confidence, belief, reliance)that
are opposing to our power of discrimination, our "vishwaas" (trust, faith,
confidence, belief, reliance) in Bhagwaan will become unyielding, firm and
fixed.

1) "Vishwaas" (trust, faith, confidence, belief, reliance) 2) Relations and 3)
Actions - all three of these should not be opposing to our power of
discrimination.

1) Believing and relying on the world, is "belief" that goes against our power
of discrimination (vivek).
2) Considering the world as ours, is "relations" that goes against our power of
discrimination.
3) Doing actions that are contrary to the ordinance of the scriptures or doing
actions with desire for fruit are "actions" that go against our discrimination.

"Vishwaas" (trust, faith, confidence, belief, reliance) does not lend strength
to one's discrimination "vivek". Where there is predominance of discrimination
"vivek", there is no belief, faith, trust, reliance etc., and where there is
predominance of faith, trust, belief etc., there is no vivek "discrimination".
One must only ask for "vishwaas" (trust, faith, confidence, belief, reliance) in
front of Bhagwaan (God). Besides vishwaas (belief, faith, trust) there is no
need to ask for anything else. Vishwaas (Faith, Belief, Trust) is instrumental
in Love. In having "vishwaas" (faith, trust, confidence, belief) - " Bhagwaan
(God) exists (IS) and that He is my very own, " one develops love.

From "Prashnouttermanimaala" in Hindi pg 66 by Swami Ramsukhdasji

Ram Ram

For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net
For full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org

-------------------------------------------------------

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This brings closure to this topic. Sister is satisfied with the responses. Gita
Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

-------------------------------------------

Hari Om,
I am reading the thoughts expressed by sadhakas here for sometime.I am a 55
years old lady, living alone and working for small children.
I have read Gita, Upanisad and many spiritual books, written articles on
positive thinking on world magazines, devoted myself in service for mankind.But
amidst all this I feel always lonely and seek love from others.Because of my
ethical approach to life I have not been accepted by people in my family as it
goes against their way of functioning in a easy give and take principle.I do not
compromise on truth.But I need love from those whom I have worked for or living
with like my maternal family members, my husband , my community whom I have
served for years.But it is only give and give situation for me which drains my
energy after sometime and I feel poor and empty from inside.I cannot accept this
kind of life for myself.Is it wrong to seek love and unconditional acceptance
from husband and family members to remain happy in life ?how I shall get love
from my own people to live my life.Arjuna had also this dilema in Mahabharata,
but got the guidance from Krishna.No doubt he won the war, but lost his sons and
his last life was not full of happiness. We ordinary human being who are trying
to live a good and happy life how to achieve that in places where we do not get
to join a satsang and written words do not inspire ! Please help.

sister

------------------------------------------------
Hari Om,
Thank you very much for your help.It is really the voice of God, so pure and so
appropriate.I have found my God in all of you!
Sister


-------------------------------------------------

Shree Hari


Dear Sister Ram Ram!


Thanks for sharing your personal issue. It is great that you have read Gitaji
and Upnisads already. Ordinarily, in this world, it is not unusual to expect
love in return and not receive it.


For a true spiritual seeker true love means giving and giving only and not
expecting anything in return since expecting something back would make it a
business. Also, whatever we are doing for others, we are able to do with things
provided by God only and with nothing to claim as our own. Seva (duty or
Kartvaya) is supposed to be performed by a sadhaka as an act of Yajna only, not
seeking anything in return since doing things with expectation binds man
(Gitaji: 3/9). Therefore, do all actions only as an offering to God (Gitaji:
9/27, 18/46).


We have absolutely no control on others. It is not fair for us to expect from
others what they should do for us, they are independent to choose since we too
may not be delivering exactly what others want from us. Naturally they would not
do what we want them to do. Even at that if we simply do not insist on them to
return our love, they are more likely to return.


In the world, it is only the appearance of love but it is not true love, the
worldly love is mixed with selfishness and it is changing all the time. Why
should we beg from the world, the world does not have the capability to give
love consistently. True love can only be with God where it stays the same all
the time; we should demand it from Him only since we are His Amsha (Gitaji:
15/7).


In his discourses, Swami Ramsukhdasji explains what people have to deal with
into two categories:
1) Things which happen (HONA) in terms of situations, circumstances, getting
pleasure and pain etc., these are strictly based on Prarabhda, we are not
independent to choose, one therefore should joyfully accept things as they come.
We are receiving these because of our own Karmic package from past lives. We
should not curse those who bring these to us but instead be thankful to them for
bringing these to us thereby helping us reduce our burden.

2). In doing new actions (KARNA), we are independent in choosing whatever we
want to do-- good actions, bad actions, perform or not perform, perform them
diligently or carelessly etc., Swamiji Maharaj says we should be careful in
doing new actions using scripture as our guide (Gitaji: 16/24). In any case we
should not do anything which we know to be wrong.


Goswami Tulsidasji says in Ramcharitmanas (7 - 117 -1/2):


Iswara amsha jiva abinashi, chetna amala sahaj sukh rashi
so mayabasa bhayau gosai, badhyo kia markata ki nai


"The individual soul is a ray of Divine Consciousness, immortal, conscious,
untainted by Maya and naturally blissful. Such a soul, my Lord, has allowed
itself to be dominated by Maya and has been caught in its trap like a parrot or
a monkey."

For our true happiness nothing outside of us is needed (Gitaji: 2/55). We are
masters of our own destiny, therefore we should not depend on others for our
happiness!


|| Ram Ram ||


Humble regards,
Madan Kaura

=============================================

Love is the quest of each individual to join his complimentary personality,every
feeling for whom is an association in mind.Sacrifice and posessiveness are two
parameters of its yardstick.Eternal love of Radha and hatred of Kamsa have been
compared as two different forms of love,each directing itself towards Sri
Krishna.
subhashtewari

-------------------------------------------


-Shree Hari

Dear Sister Namaste!

You do these acts of service for whom? For you? I do not think so, the service
for mankind is service for The Beloved, it's in you soul, a divine expression of
your bhava; this understanding of selfless service not seeking reward is known
and admired across many cultures:

"The beginning of love is to let those we love be perfectly themselves, and not
to twist them to fit our own image. Otherwise we love only the reflection of
ourselves we find in them." Thomas Merton

4:20. Having abandoned attachment to the fruit of the action, ever content,
depending on nothing, he does not do anything Though engaged in activity.
22. Content with what comes to him without effort, free from the pairs of
opposites and envy, even-minded in success and failure, Though acting, he is not
bound.

Anywhere I see suffering, that is where I want to be, doing what I can.
Princess Diana

Luke 6:35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in
return; and your reward shall be great, and you shall be the children of the
Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Be good, be kind, be humane, and charitable; love your fellows; console the
afflicted; pardon those who have done you wrong.
Zoroaster

Can you not see Divine Sister, that all the love you would ever need is pouring
out of the Supreme Lord into your heart.

Stay blessed.

Om ... Shanti ...

Mike.

-------------------------------------------------


There is simple funda of the life i.e. All actions having the reactions. What we
gave to others are getting it back from them.  Then why should we blame to
others of our wrong doings instead one should introspect.

If you are unable to accept above then you just do the things which are right in
your vision but without hurting the sentiments of others.   I strongly believe
that once you start doing this selflessly you will certainly get a lot of
strength and peace and won't feel alone.

With Jai Ram Ji Ki

RAMESH SHARMA

----------------------------------------------------

Material, physical dependence is a fact. There is interdependence.
But psychologically every one is self sufficient. One is under the illusion that
psychological discomfort can be undone or escaped by depending upon others. It
has to be borne, absorbed by the individual himself. In fact, when one does not
go for avoidance of this discomfort by consolations, explanations- it is
automatically absorbed.
To see psychological sufficiency is the key, is unalloyed enjoyment, is your
connection to the 'whole'.

Y V Chawla

----------------------------------------------
Dear Sister,
Namaskar!

By now, you might be satisfied with what learnt Sadaks on the forum have
suggested that Love and respect from anybody what to speak from spouse, children
or friends & relatives can/should never be demanded but earned. Even if by all
means and trial love is not reciprocated, refer to KARMANE VA ADIKARESTE.....
the theme and very famous Verse of whole B. GITA...and be only happy and
peaceful with your sincere action without any return expectations!!!

Sadak B.S. has very correctly put all your efforts for unconditional loving
others
with no return of love even from your family members to YOUR PAST KARMAS!!
Sister, see it is logical and easy to understand that "What we sow we are bound
to reap that only" and that is why some great person has said a proverb: "AS YOU
SOW SO SHALL YOU REAP!!!"

In view of above reality, it is logical to agree that those people whom you are
loving must have loved you in past lives and in this life now are getting return
as fruit and you have not loved your spouse, children and relatives etc., in
past lives and that is why you are not getting back love from them in return.
Thus, having firm faith in KARMA philosophy which, would help you to be always
happy and would help you not to get depressed when Love is not received back.
Rather, for all the return unpleasant fruits for your Dharmic actions in present
life YOU MUST THANK LORD THAT HE HAS HELPED YOU TO GET ERASED THE BALANCE OF
RETURN FROM PAST BAD ACTIONS FRUITS DUE TO YOU, IN PRESENT LIFE BY NOT PROVIDING
PLEASANT FRUITS!!!!!

Hope above elaborate explanation of Karma philosophy might help to remove your
dis-satisfaction from not receiving Love from near & dears!

Love and blessings from elder brother,

I am
(Kuldeep Kumar Kaul)

---------------------------------------------

Expectations - right or wrong?



Wanting certain response from others is NOT WRONG; it is but natural to anyone …
in fact, that is the only way anyone can ever know how to live! But alignment of
the same with wisdom remains crucial for the success :).



If you want something from others, YOU SHOULD DO WHAT THEY WANT ... NOT WHAT YOU
WANT! That is the rule of the game called society and nature. Nothing in the
universe would care to alter one's own agenda (nature) unless there is either a
threat or a boost for one's very existence. Therefore, you can get response of
your choice from others only by two ways: Threaten them or lure them! Either way
they see their benefits. When threatened, one runs to protect one's current
status. When lured, one runs to enhance one's current status.



The only way you get a favorable response from your environment is by aligning
yourself in its favor. That is the law of nature that nobody can trespass. For
example, never try to hallucinate of overpowering gravity by your command. If
you insist, you would hurt yourself ... you may even break your limbs, ribs,
neck and skull depending on the intensity of your insistence!!! On the other
hand, if you align your actions along with the gravitational force, you may
achieve many things that you would not dream of doing on your own. That is the
power of alignment - it derives synergy from the collective presence.



In your case, you may think that you are "giving" to others. It does not
necessarily mean they believe that they are "receiving" anything worthwhile from
you. In fact, they may even think on the contrary that they are presented with
some unwanted, annoying or threatening "gift" from you!! When they believe they
receive something worthwhile to them, they will definitely respond favorably to
you.



Threatening others also depends on others more than you! Unless others feel
threatened if they do not act as per your dictates, they will not respond in
your favor. In fact, if they find ways to threaten you back more than you can …
you are inviting their wrath rather than favor!! Therefore, you need to
calculate your power as against theirs and calibrate the same perpetually in
order to keep "winning" over others. Speculating on your background, you would
not want to entertain this path at all :).



But remember that the world is like a mirror - it religiously reflects the
sentiments with which you approach it. It may even exaggerate the sentiments
based on its own emotional baggage leading divergence in the associated
relations. If you threaten it ... you will be threatened! If you attempt to lure
it ... you will be lured!! The question remains, therefore, whether you are fit
to face the retaliated sentiments!!!



More importantly, it depends whether you could wield wisdom to bring in
convergence in the relation. Divergence brings in conflicts from around and
contradictions from within pitting the fellow into a perpetual fight. It
threatens the fellow in its immediate vicinity and flushes an anxiety of
potential isolation in distant horizons. Therefore, convergence in any relation
is the key to reduce the conflicts and the associated miseries from survival
perspective.



Remember, all relations could be gateways to LIBERATION, ABSOLUTE FREEDOM … if
you know how to make them converge. Convergence is also 2-sided just like its
nemesis, divergence. Instead of distancing the entities involved like divergence
would, convergence would bring the entities closer and closer. As differences
amongst them mitigate, the entities involved in the relation also would approach
their relative unity. UNITY is FREEDOM ... no more threats ... no more lures.
Therefore, every relation could be a gateway to the ultimate UNITY, Self
Realization as well from spiritual perspective.



Survival or Spiritual … it is wiser to stay with wisdom and strive to converge
upon our relations. Rather survival is just a subset of Spirituality; but,
remains the only gateway to anything in one's life. Therefore, survive wisely …
spirituality is the natural eventuality to a wise survival.



Respects.



Naga Narayana.
-------------------------------------------

In Nature there is a Law : Whatever you give, you receive. Whatever you don't
give, you won't receive. [It is not necessary that you will receive from the
person whom you give, that is why it is said that we receive from God.]
You or anyone is NO exception to this Law of Nature.
Humbly,
Saadhaka

-----------------------------------------------

It is quite difficult to answer this question without knowing your exact
situation.

Yes.. You need love. Accept that Krishna (God) loves you and you love Krishna.
People around you are Krishna's manifestations. Love them and accept love from
them. If people around you don't give you love, then be happy as you know that
the Supreme Lord loves you.

Yes.. You need happiness. Your self is beyond matter and is always happy. Accept
that your self is always happy. If you experience suffering or difficult
circumstances in your life, then don't sweat about them. Let go of external
circumstance (both happiness and unhappiness). Don't hold on to them as you know
that self is always happy and these circumstances are fleeting in nature.
External unhappiness and happiness both will come and go. You don't need to deny
external happiness. Be externally happy but don't attach importance to it.
Attach importance to your atma (self) which is eternal, full of knowledge and
happiness.

Yes.. You need companionship and don't need loneliness. First accept that
Krishna is always with you and He will always remain with you. So, you are not
lonely. Seek companionship of your husbands, kids and other family members
knowing that you are always with Krishna. Enjoy with them. Be happy with them
and give them happiness. See them as manifestation of Krishna and be happy in
their companionship.

Yes.. sometimes family and community drains our energy. But if you see that you
are serving Krishna within them, then they won't drain your energy. Now, you are
not working for them but for Krishna. At least, this attitude will drain lesser
energy. More you will apply it, more happier you will become.

It is our nature to seek love and unconditional acceptance from husband and
family members to remain happy in life. You cannot change your nature. There is
one person who surely gives you this. It is Krishna (God). Krishna
unconditionally loves you. So, accept that unconditional love. After this
acceptance, be happy with what you get. If your family members love you
unconditionally, then it is great. If they don't, accept it. You can't change
them. If you accept unconditional love of Krishna, I hope you will get from
others too. At least you won't be disturbed if you don't get it from others.

>> how to achieve that in places where we do not get to join a satsang and
written words do not inspire !

I read Swamiji's book Sadhan-Sudha-Sindhu. It is on the web. Whenever I have
time, I read this book on my phone. Since I read it on my phone, no one even
notices and I end up reading a lot. I might have even read some chapters more
than dozen times.

Before reading this book, I have attended many satsangs (more than 1000s). I
used to attend satsang twice a day and even lived in temple. But those things
did not advance me much. Reading this book is even better than those satsangs.
It goes to the heart and the teachings of Gita appear so simple and obvious.

At His feet in service,
G B

--------------------------------------------------

We all have to practice unconditional love, unconditional service, unconditional
acceptance of others/situations....to experience true happiness, peace,
love..... Words have power to transform if understood in the right context...

Conditions restrict our happiness or change it into unhappiness... Conditions
are nothing but strong desires expecting people to behave / situations to occur
in a certain way.... Try doing away with all conditions...to feel fulfilled,
feel the joy of service to others, feel the joy of giving.....world may change
entirely....best wishes

Sushil Jain

---------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Dear Sister, it is understandable dilemma for those in your situation.

You asked,"Is it wrong to seek love and unconditional acceptance from husband
and family members to remain happy in life ?"

Please know that happiness that depends on anything, either material things or
acceptance, or love from another, be that spouse, children, parents, friends, is
not happiness. It is a short term gratification of senses and mind, even when
obtained through such seeking. You already are experiencing emptiness, energy
drained out of you, etc., which is the proof of this dependency.
Problem is the dependency itself robbing you of freedom! It is precisely because
Happiness(Love) is not "yours" or "mine", it is Impersonal, not limited, and not
caused by a thing. Seeking gets you limited, giving up seeking gets total
freedom!

Just give up any such dependency in your understanding, and see what happens!
You will discover a great freedom from all seeking in a flash of understanding
that "personal seeker" is the problem.
We want to be loved because we don't love. If we do love unconditionally then we
cannot ask to be loved in return(it is condition). Please see this clearly. Be
one with your aches, pains and emptiness in total surrender! The more we fight
with such emotions more will be their power over us.

Besides, you are doing service to humanity, writing on positive thinking in
magazines, sticking to truth at all cost, right? These acts are rewards in
themselves, so, don't use them as means to bring Love and Happiness. Please
discover within that Love is the Whole, not a result of doing and expecting.

When you discover "me/mine", as the root cause of all dependencies arising out
of feeling lack within, you put an end to all seeking"!

Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt

-------------------------------------------------
By default heart is the well with spring of love. Love springs like swyambhu and
originate on its own. All hearts have that swayambhu called Love which only
originate to give. But then there are rocks and weeds covering this well unless
kept clean. These rocks and weeds are kaam, krodh, lobh, moh, raag, dwesh and
ahamkaar as mentioned in geeta.
One's effort or karma should be to work on keeping the well of heart clean, so
as the spring of love is unclogged and it comes out to give and only give.
Though it sounds easy, but its tough to practice.

One way to succeed on this cleansing exercise is to work for higher goals, to
work for god (what else can be highest goal then god itself), the goal of being
able to see that swayambhu always in that cleaned up well. Thats also one
definition of nishkaam karma.

While we do any act lets watch that the objective/goal remains to be clearly
able to see & feel that swayambhu called Love. Please don't expect the well to
get cleaned up overnight as this is not a magical pill. The skill of speaking a
language helps for 30 years of career. The skill of people management helps
probably 70 years. But Nishkaam karma is the skill, the art of living to be
learnt for this birth and beyond.

regds,
rakesh

------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhaka,



Namah Shivay



The only and only source of purest of the pure love, clearest of the clear
understanding and the realistic of the real bliss is the Satsang of Brahmnisth
shrotiya Saints.



You should only make every possible attempt for partaking in the Satsang so that
your needs become pure and come true.



Shubhamastu,



RAJINDER MOHAN VOHRA
----------------------------------------------

Dear Sister

My sincere appreciation for the good work you are doing for so long !!

God loves you for the good work you are doing and thats precisely why HE has
made you post your feelings here .
I have no doubt at all that the enlightened wise souls in this group will help
you transform into a very Happy Content cheerful and enthusiastic person who
will continue to do the noble service that you are doing .
I am receiving a lot of valuable guidance for my post here regarding finding a
Guru .

May I offer my humble thinking on this matter ??

Everyone and everything is the Lord . Believe firmly in this !! Say this to
yourself a 100 times a day for a 100 days or as long as needed to be carved like
a rock in your consciousness .
Then you will see that you are serving the Lord in all the good work you do !!

We need to be free of expectations and desires to be Happy and content .thats
another aspect you may consider . It frees us from the unpredictable behaviour
of others and never will we feel dissapointed .

So I request you dear sister to look upon God and God alone on whom to make all
your demands and expect nothing from any other perishable relationship of this
world .

May the wise and much respected souls here bring God's voice to you through this
group .
I wish you inner peace ,bliss and contentment .

Your brother ,

Hemant Jadhav
------------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

Why do you seek reciprocation/acknowledgment/ appreciation / fame (called 'love'
by you ) from those who you 'served' ? 'Service' means no expectations ! If you
seek love in return, how is it 'service' ? It is a trade/business then. You
praise me/notice me/acknowledge me/ appreciate me , and I do service to you
....this is business not service. This tendency/desire for 'love' is converting
a 'Rupee' into a 'chavanni' (25 paisa) ! In spiritual language it is seeking
peanuts...'Chavanni chhap desire' !!!

There was one 'yogi' (concentrating mind/body) ! He had amazing power of sitting
motionless for months. He once went to King and told him about his power to
concentrate. Kind got interested . Yogi said , I am sitting motionless here, you
can build a house upon me leaving only air space and I will remain motionless
till the construction is over. King agreed and asked him as to what he will take
for showing this power ! Yogi replied: ' Sir Ghoda Loonga, Ghoda' ( Sir I will
take one horse in reward) !!!

Seeking petty appreciation is akin to that 'Ghoda loonga' , Divine Sister. Leave
this desire ! Throw it away...MUJHE TUM SE KUCHH BHI NA CHAHIYE...!

Actually it is not 'giving' and 'giving' which is draining energy from you (as
claimed by you) , it is 'not being able to take' which is draining you. It is a
law: If you desire anything, you yourself have created obstacles into
fulfillment of the same. The 'poverty/emptiness' felt by you is due to that
desire ...and that desire only. Desire as a law creates 'deficiency' as soon as
it perks up/arises. Only that is deficient/poor/empty/beggar , who desires. If
you don't desire, where is deficiency/poverty/ emptiness ? THINK : What
difference will it make if somebody praises you or not praise you ? Horse is too
little a reward for that Yogi who can reach Paramatma if desire for horse goes.

There is one sitting at top called Paramatma...is He not watching you ? Focus on
Him..rather than on worldly people. If worldly people praise you, consider that
to be an insult. Get sad then, because it is then that your whole Rupee gets
exchanged for a petty 'chavanni' !!

Read also recent deliberations on this Divine Forum under a similar Q raised by
another Divine Sister like you...Saritaji !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

-------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadak,
Raga & Deuvesa (Likes and dislikes) are fruits of our past Karma. So it may be
necessary to know what that does. What you give and give is that which you took
and took. This earth is literally jail for Athuma. May be it God, if HE comes
here, the Karma role never leaves. You have family and have to perform Karma-
failing you will have to take another to complete. Just keep saying this Sloka
once a day, things will change as you said Arjuna seeked Sri Krishna so also you
can seek Sri Krishna.
NARAYANAL BHRAMA JAYATHE,
NARAYANAL RUDRO JAYATHE,
NARAYANAL INDRO JAYATHE,
NARAYANAL PRAJAPATHI JAYATHE,
NARAYANAL PRAVARTHANTHE,
NARAYANE PRELEEYATHE,
ETHA DRIDVETHA SRIRO DIYATHE.
If you need to pronounce correctly- kindly reply I shall mail the video of that
sloka.
B.S

-----------------------------------------------
Hari OM sister,
Even Bhakta Pralhad was not accepted by his father because he was a devotee of
God. So, it is probably not correct to seel love. Rather, one needs to give love
to all who accepts and not hate anyone, even the foes. Mere words and satsang
will not help. If you are so destined, you will change the course of your
thinking and stop worrying about not getting love and fair treatment from those
you loved, lived with and cared for. You will have a change of attitude and
perspective to one one of loving others without expectation of anything in
return. If one considers everyone and everything
as God's various forms and intensely love and submit to that thought and God,
all other negative thoughts of not being accepted and not being loved will go
away. Have trust in God and submit all your pains and suferings to his feet.
After all it is He who has provided for all your sufferings /disappointments.
Return all these to Him as your offerings and do not keep them in your heart and
mind. It is extremely difficult but that is the only way to love God and all his
forms. Just pray to God to give you the strength to ignore all non-acceptance,
non-recognition, neglect and that are inflicted on you by others. Do not
complain. Do not remember them. Forgive everyone all the time. Realise that you
are the Atman and no one can hurt you by non-acceptance, non-recognition or
neglect. Love is not for seeking
and getting: love is for giving away. As one gives love away, more love fills in
the heart. Give up the ego that you need to be loved and cared for, give up the
ego that gets hurt.
Basudeb Sen

-----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sister
Thank you for sending this question. It is amazing that your message could have
been completely mine as well except for writing in world magazines and age of
course. I am wory of writing articles. Thanks to these satsangas I have stopped
seeking acceptance from individuals around me. If they do it is devine grace.
Many a time we women do not know what our original nature and needs are. It need
not be the same as men or need not be subservient and never against. At the best
it should be complementary. Not knowing our nature, it is natural to get lost.
Saving grace is that we are able to articulate our doubts and seek help.
Examples will not give answers, but they definitely guide. Krishnaa(Draupadi)
was a princess herself, blessed with eternal beauty, had five great men for
husbands, Krishna for a brother and hugely experienced Pritha(Kunti) with her to
name a few. Yet she had to go through worst possible difficulties. Vasudhaiva
Kutumbakam thought helps me swim. As they say I may be alone but not lonely.
Watching/just looking at all the five senses as I go through my day has been
extremely helpful along with aasanas and pranayama.
Thank you
Veena

---------------------------------------------------
Reply to the sister who has made a appeal for guidance

To follow the right path first you must cut off all contact with those of your
relatives who do not love or respect you. Go to a ashram or old age home & work
there in return for being allowed to stay there. I promise if you follow this
you will find respect for the work you will be doing & also loving friends. Do
not tell your relatives where you are living otherwise they will come & trouble
you. Learn & do pranayam & also teach the others. This pranayam done 20 times in
the morning will show the right way
the meaning of pranayam is "om" but simply repeating the word om is not enough.
The breathing
Will lead you to the highest happiness
Best wishes
balbir singh

-------------------------------------------------------

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If one has no desire to chant, but still accepts Krishna as The Absolute Truth,
can he consider himself as being still fortunate ? I use to chant, but now i
have no desire too. Could this mean that i have been cursed ?
OM TAT SAT
Dave

--------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas,
Hare Krishna.
This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka regarding accepting Krishna.

Prahlada Maharaja described nine processes in the seventh Canto of Srimad
Bhagavatam that are recognized as pure devotional services.

1. Hearing ( Sravanam) the glories of the Lord.
2. Chanting( Kirtanam) of the holy names of the Lord.
3. Remembering ( Vishnu Smaranam).
4. Serving the Lord's lotus feet.
Goddess Lakshmi is constantly engaged in serving the lotus feet of the Lord.
5. Deity Worship ( Arcanam).
6. Praying ( Vandanam)
7. Executing orders ( Dasyam)
Like Hanuman who executed Lord Rama' s orders.
8. Serving as a friend ( Sakhyam). Krishna was Arjuna's friend in the
battlefield.
9. Complete surrender ( Atma Nivedanam).
We can serve the Lord in any of the nine ways. But in Kaliyuga, the chanting of
the Holy Names is advised because it is simple, and practical. Serving the Lord
in any way , helps us advance spiritually.
Thank You.
Prasad. A. Iragavarapu, MD

-----------------------------------------------

Dear Sadak,
Sri Dave you are blessed.
B.S

-------------------------------------------------

Dear Ones, Namaste!

DaveJI, Of course, Swamiji  has spoken below about the great benefit of chanting
when one is sincere and gets immersed in it. Chanting has to go down from the
lips to the heart with feeling every word as if engaging God in a one to one
dialogue.

However, it is perhaps true in your case, that chanting has generated a desire
for Absolute Truth. I am talking based on my experience. It is not that chanting
should be stopped forcefully, but chanting itself may be adding another aspect
in your life! One must be honest to examine the feeling of not chanting whether
it is due to boredom or laziness or it is natural!

It may also happen that you may get back to chanting more vigorously after
pursuit of Truth by clear understanding of what Krishna is experientially! As I
feel, Devotion is like a sacred water sprinkled over the path of Knowledge to
keep it wet with Love on the way to Realization.

Therefore, my suggestion is to leave it to Krishna to make this decision for you
while you sincerely pursue your Divine desire for Absolute Truth without holding
on to or refusing to whatever comes naturally your way!

Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt

-----------------------------------------------
Dear Dave,



I am a bit intrigued with couple of your utterances: "have I been cursed?"
"accept KrishNa … no interest in His chants"



One has to take FULL responsibility for whatever happens to oneself. If there is
any curse that can be effective on any … it ought to be one's own! Nobody can
curse anyone. Trust me. The eternal truth is "one is solely responsible for
whatever one becomes". One ought to help oneself. Nobody else can ever help when
one is not receptive. Same way, one's doom remains within one's own belief.
Nobody can create such a belief when one is not receptive. One alone is one's
friend as well as foe in all his/her deeds.



Uddharedaatmanaatmaanam naatmaanamavasaadayet |

Aatmaiva hyaatmano bandhuh aatmaiva ripuraatmanah || 6.5 ||



Therefore, the only curse possible is to let beliefs of doom and raise eclipse
one's appreciation of THE TRUTH; in other words, one's ignorance! You would lose
interest in chanting or anything else either when your intended results are not
perceived or when your intentions change. Therefore, the right questions are:
(1) Why did I fail to receive the results intended in chanting? and/or (2) Why
did I lose interest in chanting? These questions remain relevant ONLY IF you
care. Is it bothering you that you can't chant anymore? Then you should answer
these questions for your own sake. Maybe, the answer is in the confusion between
"acceptance" and "not chanting" ... just a perspective for your benefit ...



Secondly, I can't fathom how one can "accept" KrishNa and remain "not chanting
Him"! The very acceptance is chanting and the very reason for chanting is the
acceptance. If the two were isolated for any reason, there is no meaning in
either! THEY HAVE MEANING ONLY AS ONE ... NEVER AS TWO!



Chanting is not necessarily in some vocal sound ... that is just an expression!
Appreciating the ultimate reality through an expression of such a kind
perpetually is TRUE CHANTING. The expression could be a sound such as "Om",
"Hare KrishNa", "a-squared plus b-squared is c-squared", etc.; or an image such
as a flute, peacock feather, etc.; or an abstract idea such as time, space,
gravity, etc.; or just an absolute silence. The deep appreciation of THE TRUTH
amidst all the physical imagery around, sensorial noise within as well as the
abstract silence beyond is the TRUE ACCEPTANCE. Then how can there be anything
but a CHANT anywhere?!



When the acceptance is deep-rooted, anything that you see or not see remains a
divine chant. When you realize that anything you perceive is a divine chant as
such, then the very need for acceptance retires. When the acceptance is
dissolved deep within, there can't be anything but chanting anywhere. KrishNa
alone remains ... TRUTH IN ITS ABSOLUTE PRESTINE PRESENCE ...



Respects.



Naga Narayana.
-----------------------------------------------------

In fact Krishna says in Geeta
not to do jaap of name Krishna
instead to chant AUM
that to inside heart
not just dress a statue of Krishna and simply
stop worship after offering flowers.

Infact in later stages the
AUM shall come out with each beat of heart

Krishna says human is made of three parts

JAD
CHETAN
ATMA

or

non innervated
mental
spirit

The mental barrier gives us firm belief in this mortal
world and thus our true self or spirit can not be realized by brain or by
physical or mental chanting
but by enlightened heart which is seat of human soul.

so never mind to chant name Krishna
infacr Arjun had to beg a thousand times the
Krishna for gettong excuse for not chanting Aum
but taking name Krishna.

AUM,
AMEN,
AUNKAAR
AMIN

"Dr. Puneet Gupta"

--------------------------------------------

You have asked this question [to get an answer] and still say that you have no
desire. Strange statement.
Humbly,
Saadhaka

--------------------------------------------------


Glories of Chanting the Lord's Name - 1

Naamsankirtanam yasya sarvapaappranaashanam |

Pranaamo dukhshamanastam namaami harirm param || (Srimad Bhagwat 12/13/23)

"I prostrate respectfully to That Supreme Essence, Shri Hari, whose Name is
chanted, the destroyer of all sins and bowing to Whom all sorrows come to an
end."

In this Kaliyug, the Divine Name of the Lord it most glorious of all. The
glories of chanting the Divine Name is in all four "yugs" - Satya, Treta,
Dvaapar and Kali (four ages of the world). However, in Kaliyug the chanting of
the Lord's Name is main premise, the greatest support, the basic foundation. It
is the Divine Name of the Lord that will easily lead one to Salvation and it is
the best of all spiritual disciplines.

One, the Divine Name is "maansik" japa, one is "upaanshu" japa, one is
"saadhaaran japa" and one is "sankirtan" . "Maansik" japa is that in which the
Divine Name is chanted silently within the mind, where neither the throat, the
tongue or the lips move. "Upaanshu" japa is that in which the mouth is closed,
but with the throat and tongue the japa is taking place, and it cannot be heard
by the ears. "Saadhaaran" japa is that in which the ears can hear and others can
also hear. "Sankirtan" is that in which with musical notes and melody in a loud
voice and tone, one chants the Divine Name. Besides the Divine Name, one may
also sing about the Lord's divine sports, His qualities, His power and majesty
etc. In all of this, the chanting of the Divine Name is the easiest and best of
all.

Just as in the case of Divine Name repetition that is done in the mind, the more
that the mind becomes immersed in God, the better it will be, similarly, in
chanting the Lord's Name, along with the beats and tone, and the melody and
musical notes, chanting in a higher pitch, the more that one becomes immersed
while chanting the Lord's Name, that much better it will be.

The mind must become engaged in God and blissful while chanting the Lord's Name.
It means that whether others are looking or not, whether others are chanting or
not, whether the chanting has any affect on others - such sentiments should not
remain at all in the mind. Such sentiments are a great obstacle in one's
salvation. When showmanship and worldly impression of name-fame comes into
chanting the Lord's Name, the power of the Divine Name does not have much
effect.

The three impressions that exist are - impressions of people, body, and
scriptures. Similarly there are three desires - money, progeny, and honor. All
these lead to great downfall. Even after chanting the Divine Name, doing
auspicious work, associating with holy company and Truth, giving discourses,
sharing the Lord's divine pastimes, when one blends with the filth of
impressions and desires, the glories of chanting the Lord's Name do not remain.
However, Divine Name recitation, divine stories, chanting the Lord's Name,
association with Truth never goes wasted. There will definitely be benefits from
it. But due to these desires and worldly impressions, one does not benefit
significantly from these, rather there is very little benefit. (to be continued)

From book "Kalyaan Path" in Hindi by Swami Ramsukhdasji
**********************************************************************
TO READ MESSAGE IN HINDI PLEASE VISIT:
http://www.satcharcha.blogspot.com
Titled "Sankirtan ki Mahima - 1" on Jan 14, 2011.

**********************************************************************
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radhe radhe.

please help me convince the lady of my dreams that it is okay to marry again.her
husband was abusive and abandoned her. he made it clear he has moved on and in a
relationship with his attorney. i have known this lady for years and she is what
i have prayed for--devoted,good, kind and very loving to god and all his
devotees.she is afraid that it is a sin to remarry. the sadakas here are very
knowledgeable and i am sure that you can explain to this good lady that she is
doing no wrong if she marries again. her family have given their blessings and
will be the happiest to see her happily married this time.

radhe radhe.

a sadaka.
vbp

----------------------------------------------------

The following information are required to answer:
1.  whether the person is married, divorced  or going to divorce for
his love lady?
2. what is her age and what is the age of his lady love?
3. how many children this man and his lady love are having and how
many are male children and how many are female children and what are
their ages?
4. will the children accept this marriage?
5. will such marriage will asdversely maffect the future of the lives
of the children?
what is the profession of this man?
6. what is earning of this man?
7. is the lady love of this man a working woman or housewife? will
such marriage bring any disreputation to her or to her family?
8. why this man desires to marry  this lady? out of sheet love or just
to satisfy his  carnal desire?
9.what trust or guarantee this man can to his lady love that he will
not misbehave or desert her in future after marriage?

RATHINDRA PRASAD LAHIRI

---------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhaks, Namaste!

Dear vpbJi, We understand your dilemma! However, it is not clear from your post
the situation you are in. For example, what is yours and lady's age now; whether
this will be your first marriage. Do you need blessings of this forum to
convince her to remarry or it is a genuine concern for her on your part? Since
she thinks its a sin to remarry, does she have another ways to spend life
differently. I am assuming child is not involved here. Do yours and her
interests match in pursuing spirituality or other aspects such as children,
families on both sides, specially, if you have to live in a joint family! She is
your dream lady as you put it, however, are you hers? In all humility I would
ask you to consider these points.

As much as marriage is appropriate for a divorced person, more so for young
lady, it is still a big concern for long term commitment, specially for a lady
who has gone through the abusive marriage already.  I would allow her lot of
time to think about it very carefully and weigh all her options including your
proposal. She may be in need of understanding, love and care from people at this
time!

I don't imply here to take a business like approach and overlook the overriding
love and care for her you have! These are practical considerations for both of
you, not just for her. You know it that Love is blind but marriage is an eye
opener! After few years of marriage, physical attractions for each other are
diminished as a plan of Nature! At that time can both of you say "I couldn't
have gotten better partner than I have now"? Can you allow her all the freedom
to live God-centered life, and join her in it? Giving freedom is receiving
freedom too. Love is such Freedom in the marriage!

Even though I am not directly quoting scriptures, what I am saying is based on
practical implications that comes from Scriptures/BG/Swamiji's teaching and as I
have understood them in my life!

Namaskar..........Pratap Bhatt

-----------------------------------------------------


Marriage grants the opportunity to become devout to each other.It is a social
and spiritual partenership that functions with the fluid capital of love and
dedication.Married life in itself is meditation.This most probably is the
meaning of Khajuraho architecture--a temple complex.One  failure is nothing more
than an accident in life which needs rehablitation..
subhashtewari

------------------------------------------

Scriptures say Krishna and Radha never married each other YET they are the top
examples of LOVE [not passion that needs possession by marriage]. Hint is
sufficient for the wise.
Humbly,
Saadhaka
-------------------------------------------------------

I know 2 women from shastra. One is Mandodari and another is Tara (I might be
wrong with the name - it is wife of Sugreeva). Mandodari was wife of Ravana and
after Ravana's death, she accepted Vibhishana as her husband. The wife of
Sugreeva (I think Tara) accepted Vali has her husband when Sugreeva ran away.
After Vali's death, she accepted Sugreeva as her husband again. Don't worry
about this sin.

Relationships are complex. It shows your immaturity to ask this question in this
forum. I think you need to be confident about yourself and try to understand
her. I hope everything that will happen will be good. Have that faith!


At His feet in service,
G B

------------------------------------------------

In another forum some one questioned me: Is there any paap, wrong?
Ans. There are only legal bindings on a human being imposed by law of the land.
In all other matters, one is FREE to explore. In fact, this freedom is what
makes one grow 'what you call spiritually'.
Y V Chawla

-----------------------------------------------

Remarriage should be  welcome.
Mohan K Muju

--------------------------------------------------------

Marriage … re-marriage … conjugate unions … THE UNION …



There is absolutely nothing wrong in re-marriage if one chooses to … just like
there is absolutely nothing wrong if one chooses to marry in the first place.
But, it is worth to understand why one wants marriage to start with.



Every living being is born incomplete and perpetually look outward to fill the
void(s) in order to attain completeness. Gender is one such huge void that one
can't fathom how to transcend! In fact it is only next to its elder sibling,
ego, in its formidability. They do not even let the fellow wonder otherwise.
Every fellow inevitably starts cognizing with a self identification (The I) and
what immediately follows is the associated gender. Accordingly, the languages
concocted by such beings are also afflicted by the two - identity and gender.



If you consider it seriously, the two are self-crippled to be incomplete as
ever. The only way they can compensate their lopsided existence is to seek
relations with elements around that seem to complement them in a way. The
complementary requirement from the objects sought out is to possess the
qualities that are absent in oneself. Therefore, a male looks for a female and
vice versa. All other relations are also developed with mutually complementary
qualities in order to balance the mutually perceived difficiencies. Any void -
sense of incompleteness - that is left untreated within would generate a sense
of loneliness within. Everyone looks for relations only to eradicate such sense
of loneliness felt within. Naturally, one develops a kind of attraction to the
qualities that compenstate the lack of the same with oneself. All attractions
are developed only due to the perceived loneliness in the absence of the
targetted object.



Any relation, from social perspectives, can be declared a success if the
completeness that is sought knowingly or unknowingly is attained and more
importantly sustained. In other words, if a perfect harmony is achieved amongst
the particpants in the relation to dissolve them into their collective UNITY,
the immediate purpose of the relations sought is served. BUT, WOULD THAT ABSOLVE
ALL THE RELATIONAL NEEDS ONE IS INFESTED WITH CATEGORICALLY?! Unfortunately, the
answer remains NO!! Any existential union achieved through mutual conjugation,
in spite of attaining a localized COMPLETENESS, is bound toward its own eventual
decimation sooner than it is conceived!!! So, the very collective entity starts
searching for alliances to fill in its newly perceived voids. The search
continues forever ... That is the existential path (DakshiNa Patha).





Coming back to your case, your yearning for the pious lady is very much
appreciable - it is natural as well as sane. If it is the social taboo that she
is hesitant, there is no basis for that - her parents are happy and the one who
wants to marry her is more than happy! If it is the religious taboo that she is
afraid of, you have to make her see through the paradoxes that a religion
imposes in one's ignorance with transparency from your end. IF SHE IS FEELING
LONELY WITHIN, SHE SHOULD ADDRESS HER PROBLEM ASAP! It is every being's natural
duty to address any such loneliness that may arise time to time. Only when one
can address such existential loneliness successfully, one would graduate to
spiritual considerations. BEWARE! TRANSPARENCY ALONE CAN CATCH SUCH NEEDS!! Any
blindfoldedness with wishful ideas and idols (more so if they have religious or
spiritual appearances) would only mislead and misplace as ever. How can a
fragile existence that cannot cater to a small void within can ever fill the
universe that ever is???!!!



But, at the same time, is it not wiser on your part to confirm the conjugate
need from the other end? Observing your appreciation of her qualities regarding
her spiritual orientation, it may be possible that she might be considering the
social separation from her previous husband as a boon in the hiding. It is
possible that she may feel liberated from the social bondage so that she can
focus on the ultimate unity that relieves one from the incomplete voids of
gender and identities altogether ... like Meerabai did! She may be thinking that
another existential marriage/relation could be a hurdle in the ONLY MARRIAGE
that is worthy ever ... THE UNION WITH LORD KRISHNA! If she is into such
transcendental path (Uttara Patha), no meaning in bother her ... you will have
to attend to your loneliness elsewhere.



Respects.



Naga Narayana.
------------------------------------------------------

To vbp
The old beliefs of widow remarriage were based on the  belief that the cause of
the husbands death was due to the bad vibes of the wife  which may or may not be
partly true, & the reply to which i will not give to you on this public portal
so as not to hurt others
However if you give me the name of the lady on my mail address i may be give you
my answer which you will be free to follow or not
Regards
Balbir singh

Shree hari Ram Ram

Balbirji, we do not encourage exchange of email ids in this forum,  thank you, 
gita talk moderators, ram ram

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If one has no desire to chant, but still accepts Krishna as The Absolute Truth,
can he consider himself as being still fortunate ? I use to chant, but now i
have no desire too. Could this mean that i have been cursed ?
OM TAT SAT
Dave

--------------------------------------------

OK, Naga Narayana. You put me in my place. Thanks.
Dave


----------------------------------------------

-Shree Hari-

Namaste! Dear Dave,

There was a great modern time Christian mystic who was trained by a
Hindu Swami, this mystic was Fr, John Main. In one of his books a
trilogy, he wrote:  "You must surrender to the mantra, in the end you
will surrender the mantra", where's the curse in that?

Om ... Shanti ...

Mike.

-----------------------------------------
Hari Om

First on fortunate/unfortunate/curse issue. The very fact that you have got
human birth takes away decisively and completely any scope/possibility of your
being ever spiritually unfortunate..till you breathe your last. If after getting
human birth, still there remains a scope for misfortune, then what is the glory
of this special gift of Paramatma to all of us ? There is no misfortune,
therefore, at all of any nature whatsoever for any human being walking on the
path which is the very goal of human birth viz spirituality. What curse? Human
life is a boon irrespective of any situation, circumstance, status...! There is
not even a shadow of curse over it.

You said you 'accept' Krishna but have no desire to chant His name. Let me first
dwell upon 'chanting' ! 'Chanting' essentially is an 'activity' and it is a Law:
You can't reach God by action. It is 'bhava' (sentiment) which reaches Him. All
actions take place in the regime of Prakruti and both you (Purusha) and
Paramatma are beyond Prakruti. There are two things : One- Doing Two-Happening.
You are talking of 'doing' the chanting of Lord's name. But the real Naam Japa
is NOT DONE, it HAPPENS effortlessly. Parrot does chanting, but in Bhakta the
chanting happens. Bhava is primary !

Glory actually is not of 'utterring' the name of Lord...it is of 'becoming' of
God. A Chaste (Pativrata) traditional Indian wife NEVER utters the name of her
husband throughout her life (even after death of her husband)..but so what? She
'becomes' of her husband and thereby gets emancipated. Number of names chanted
is not important, the concentration towards Him is important. Hence on this
count also you need not worry.

But you should worry on this 'acceptance' thing. I agree with Nagaji - once you
have 'accepted' , the chanting /remembrance should HAPPEN effortlessly.
Acceptance and remembrance then should go together. You should remember Him
without remembering. Do you need to make an effort to remember if you are
bachelor or married? Hence revisit your belief that you have 'accepted' ! There
is a difference between "learning" and "accepting"! Parrot also utters Raam..
Raam.. But it has not 'accepted' , it has only 'learnt' ! Hence when the cat
comes, it forgets Raam...Raam.. And starts uttering 'tain..tain' ! Hence
'accept' , do not 'learn'. 'Experience' follows 'acceptance' not 'learning' ! A
human ONLY can accept: I am God's, Only God is mine, nothing else is mine.

Lastly, what have you accepted? That Krishna is Truth? What does that mean?
Where is 'your relationship' with Him? You must accept YOUR relationship with
Krishna and Only Krishna and with no one else ! Where is negation of any other?
Where is even categorical statement: Mere To Girdhar Gopal ?

I also agree with Nagaji that when you 'accept' your relationship with Krishna,
thereafter all your actions can only be towards Him only JUST AS: Everything
done by a chaste wife is towards her husband only. Consider in this respect the
following two liner:

HAATH KAAM MUKH RAAM HAI, HIRDE SAANCHI PREET ! 'HARIYA' GRIHASHTHI SANT KI,
YEHI UTTAM REET !!

Said Saint Hariyaji: Work on hand, the Lord's Name on tongue and 'true love for
God' in heart...these 3 traits are the ideal rules of a true householder Saint.

TRUE LOVE FOR GOD- comes to you effortlessly (Happens) - when you ACCEPT - MERE
TO GIRDHAR GOPAL, DOOSARO NA KOI ! It is a law: Love emanates effortlessly out
of 'mineness' ! Here you have 'accepted' mineness with Girdhar Gopal...that is
it ! Now all of the above 3 traits will come effortlessly in you !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
-----------------------------------------------

Spirituality is not to give relief through experiences including chanting. It is
to show that stable relief through experiences is not possible. Suddenly, every
experience becomes 'live' whether painful or pleasurable.This liveliness is
chanting 24x7.
Y V Chawla

--------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas,
Hare Krishna.
This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka regarding accepting Krishna.

Prahlada Maharaja described nine processes in the seventh Canto of Srimad
Bhagavatam that are recognized as pure devotional services.

1. Hearing ( Sravanam) the glories of the Lord.
2. Chanting( Kirtanam) of the holy names of the Lord.
3. Remembering ( Vishnu Smaranam).
4. Serving the Lord's lotus feet.
Goddess Lakshmi is constantly engaged in serving the lotus feet of the Lord.
5. Deity Worship ( Arcanam).
6. Praying ( Vandanam)
7. Executing orders ( Dasyam)
Like Hanuman who executed Lord Rama' s orders.
8. Serving as a friend ( Sakhyam). Krishna was Arjuna's friend in the
battlefield.
9. Complete surrender ( Atma Nivedanam).
We can serve the Lord in any of the nine ways. But in Kaliyuga, the chanting of
the Holy Names is advised because it is simple, and practical. Serving the Lord
in any way , helps us advance spiritually.
Thank You.
Prasad. A. Iragavarapu, MD

-----------------------------------------------

Dear Sadak,
Sri Dave you are blessed.
B.S

-------------------------------------------------

Dear Ones, Namaste!

DaveJI, Of course, Swamiji has spoken below about the great benefit of chanting
when one is sincere and gets immersed in it. Chanting has to go down from the
lips to the heart with feeling every word as if engaging God in a one to one
dialogue.

However, it is perhaps true in your case, that chanting has generated a desire
for Absolute Truth. I am talking based on my experience. It is not that chanting
should be stopped forcefully, but chanting itself may be adding another aspect
in your life! One must be honest to examine the feeling of not chanting whether
it is due to boredom or laziness or it is natural!

It may also happen that you may get back to chanting more vigorously after
pursuit of Truth by clear understanding of what Krishna is experientially! As I
feel, Devotion is like a sacred water sprinkled over the path of Knowledge to
keep it wet with Love on the way to Realization.

Therefore, my suggestion is to leave it to Krishna to make this decision for you
while you sincerely pursue your Divine desire for Absolute Truth without holding
on to or refusing to whatever comes naturally your way!

Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt

-----------------------------------------------
Dear Dave,



I am a bit intrigued with couple of your utterances: "have I been cursed?"
"accept KrishNa … no interest in His chants"



One has to take FULL responsibility for whatever happens to oneself. If there is
any curse that can be effective on any … it ought to be one's own! Nobody can
curse anyone. Trust me. The eternal truth is "one is solely responsible for
whatever one becomes". One ought to help oneself. Nobody else can ever help when
one is not receptive. Same way, one's doom remains within one's own belief.
Nobody can create such a belief when one is not receptive. One alone is one's
friend as well as foe in all his/her deeds.



Uddharedaatmanaatmaanam naatmaanamavasaadayet |

Aatmaiva hyaatmano bandhuh aatmaiva ripuraatmanah || 6.5 ||



Therefore, the only curse possible is to let beliefs of doom and raise eclipse
one's appreciation of THE TRUTH; in other words, one's ignorance! You would lose
interest in chanting or anything else either when your intended results are not
perceived or when your intentions change. Therefore, the right questions are:
(1) Why did I fail to receive the results intended in chanting? and/or (2) Why
did I lose interest in chanting? These questions remain relevant ONLY IF you
care. Is it bothering you that you can't chant anymore? Then you should answer
these questions for your own sake. Maybe, the answer is in the confusion between
"acceptance" and "not chanting" ... just a perspective for your benefit ...



Secondly, I can't fathom how one can "accept" KrishNa and remain "not chanting
Him"! The very acceptance is chanting and the very reason for chanting is the
acceptance. If the two were isolated for any reason, there is no meaning in
either! THEY HAVE MEANING ONLY AS ONE ... NEVER AS TWO!



Chanting is not necessarily in some vocal sound ... that is just an expression!
Appreciating the ultimate reality through an expression of such a kind
perpetually is TRUE CHANTING. The expression could be a sound such as "Om",
"Hare KrishNa", "a-squared plus b-squared is c-squared", etc.; or an image such
as a flute, peacock feather, etc.; or an abstract idea such as time, space,
gravity, etc.; or just an absolute silence. The deep appreciation of THE TRUTH
amidst all the physical imagery around, sensorial noise within as well as the
abstract silence beyond is the TRUE ACCEPTANCE. Then how can there be anything
but a CHANT anywhere?!



When the acceptance is deep-rooted, anything that you see or not see remains a
divine chant. When you realize that anything you perceive is a divine chant as
such, then the very need for acceptance retires. When the acceptance is
dissolved deep within, there can't be anything but chanting anywhere. KrishNa
alone remains ... TRUTH IN ITS ABSOLUTE PRESTINE PRESENCE ...



Respects.



Naga Narayana.
-----------------------------------------------------

In fact Krishna says in Geeta
not to do jaap of name Krishna
instead to chant AUM
that to inside heart
not just dress a statue of Krishna and simply
stop worship after offering flowers.

Infact in later stages the
AUM shall come out with each beat of heart

Krishna says human is made of three parts

JAD
CHETAN
ATMA

or

non innervated
mental
spirit

The mental barrier gives us firm belief in this mortal
world and thus our true self or spirit can not be realized by brain or by
physical or mental chanting
but by enlightened heart which is seat of human soul.

so never mind to chant name Krishna
infacr Arjun had to beg a thousand times the
Krishna for gettong excuse for not chanting Aum
but taking name Krishna.

AUM,
AMEN,
AUNKAAR
AMIN

"Dr. Puneet Gupta"

--------------------------------------------

You have asked this question [to get an answer] and still say that you have no
desire. Strange statement.
Humbly,
Saadhaka

--------------------------------------------------


Glories of Chanting the Lord's Name - 1

Naamsankirtanam yasya sarvapaappranaashanam |

Pranaamo dukhshamanastam namaami harirm param || (Srimad Bhagwat 12/13/23)

"I prostrate respectfully to That Supreme Essence, Shri Hari, whose Name is
chanted, the destroyer of all sins and bowing to Whom all sorrows come to an
end."

In this Kaliyug, the Divine Name of the Lord it most glorious of all. The
glories of chanting the Divine Name is in all four "yugs" - Satya, Treta,
Dvaapar and Kali (four ages of the world). However, in Kaliyug the chanting of
the Lord's Name is main premise, the greatest support, the basic foundation. It
is the Divine Name of the Lord that will easily lead one to Salvation and it is
the best of all spiritual disciplines.

One, the Divine Name is "maansik" japa, one is "upaanshu" japa, one is
"saadhaaran japa" and one is "sankirtan" . "Maansik" japa is that in which the
Divine Name is chanted silently within the mind, where neither the throat, the
tongue or the lips move. "Upaanshu" japa is that in which the mouth is closed,
but with the throat and tongue the japa is taking place, and it cannot be heard
by the ears. "Saadhaaran" japa is that in which the ears can hear and others can
also hear. "Sankirtan" is that in which with musical notes and melody in a loud
voice and tone, one chants the Divine Name. Besides the Divine Name, one may
also sing about the Lord's divine sports, His qualities, His power and majesty
etc. In all of this, the chanting of the Divine Name is the easiest and best of
all.

Just as in the case of Divine Name repetition that is done in the mind, the more
that the mind becomes immersed in God, the better it will be, similarly, in
chanting the Lord's Name, along with the beats and tone, and the melody and
musical notes, chanting in a higher pitch, the more that one becomes immersed
while chanting the Lord's Name, that much better it will be.

The mind must become engaged in God and blissful while chanting the Lord's Name.
It means that whether others are looking or not, whether others are chanting or
not, whether the chanting has any affect on others - such sentiments should not
remain at all in the mind. Such sentiments are a great obstacle in one's
salvation. When showmanship and worldly impression of name-fame comes into
chanting the Lord's Name, the power of the Divine Name does not have much
effect.

The three impressions that exist are - impressions of people, body, and
scriptures. Similarly there are three desires - money, progeny, and honor. All
these lead to great downfall. Even after chanting the Divine Name, doing
auspicious work, associating with holy company and Truth, giving discourses,
sharing the Lord's divine pastimes, when one blends with the filth of
impressions and desires, the glories of chanting the Lord's Name do not remain.
However, Divine Name recitation, divine stories, chanting the Lord's Name,
association with Truth never goes wasted. There will definitely be benefits from
it. But due to these desires and worldly impressions, one does not benefit
significantly from these, rather there is very little benefit. (to be continued)

From book "Kalyaan Path" in Hindi by Swami Ramsukhdasji
**********************************************************************
TO READ MESSAGE IN HINDI PLEASE VISIT:
http://www.satcharcha.blogspot.com
Titled "Sankirtan ki Mahima - 1" on Jan 14, 2011.

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When Krishna is all in all for this universe why all his referenes are limited
to India . Probably in those times swarga was Himalaya and patal was south India
. At the max we see referene of Lanka in Ramayana and Gandhari from Gandhar in
Mahabharata . But these were part of Indian subcontinent .

Girish

=============================================



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radhe radhe.

please help me convince the lady of my dreams that it is okay to marry again.her
husband was abusive and abandoned her. he made it clear he has moved on and in a
relationship with his attorney. i have known this lady for years and she is what
i have prayed for--devoted,good, kind and very loving to god and all his
devotees.she is afraid that it is a sin to remarry. the sadakas here are very
knowledgeable and i am sure that you can explain to this good lady that she is
doing no wrong if she marries again. her family have given their blessings and
will be the happiest to see her happily married this time.

radhe radhe.

a sadaka.
vbp

----------------------------------------------------

radhe radhe



1. whether the person is married, divorced or going to divorce for
his love lady? am single
2. what is her age and what is the age of his lady love?  we are both in late
40's
3. how many children this man and his lady love are having and how
many are male children and how many are female children and what are
their ages? no children from her and one from mine who lives with his
mother...my lady love accepts him
4. will the children accept this marriage? yes
5. will such marriage will asdversely maffect the future of the lives
of the children? no
what is the profession of this man? am professional writer
6. what is earning of this man? good earnings
7. is the lady love of this man a working woman or housewife? non working will
such marriage bring any disreputation to her or to her family?no
8. why this man desires to marry this lady? out of sheet love or just
to satisfy his carnal desire? love the person that she is, will never force
carnal needs on her
9.what trust or guarantee this man can to his lady love that he will
not misbehave or desert her in future after marriage? she is my dream come true
and while there is not guarentee for the future, will try my best.
this discussion is to assure her that she is not commiting any sin by
remarriage. she loves me but is afraid of marrying second time. this is reason
why i ask here so when she reads your advise she will not feel guilty.



thanks to all who answered.



radhe radhe
vbp
-------------------------------------------------

One might need to be sure that the lady who lost her husband is not willing
to marry again really because she considers this as a sin punishable by God.
It all depends on the nature of the ladyand her current circumstances. She
may not be willing to marry because she thinks that she cannot mentally
accept another person as husband while she is still in such high intensity
love and devotion to her departed husband. She may also not want to bring
her children to the care of a foster father. She may worry that he may not
find a new husband of her liking if she remarries and dies not want to take
the risk of getting disappointed. She may be confident of living her life
independent of a husband rest of her life. She may be disgusted with the a
life with a husband. She might like to take up the responsibilty of
completing her lost husband's wishes and unfinished work. She may not like
to take the risk of marrying again and losing a new husband again and get
completely shattered. There could be various other reasons. It may not be
desirable to convince her to marry again by giving arguments as to why
marring again is desirable. She must be helped to think calmly and quietly
on her own on this issue. She would do well to write down her own arguments
of not marrying again and critically examine their about validity in the
light of her future expectations, obligations, resources as well as her
inner nature. She should be encouraged to deliberate with in herself on all
these and given unbiassed responses to her questions on the subject. It is
she who have to come out with a decision that is fully thought out by her.
Often people do not do this excercise adequately and clings to a decision
that really does not suit the persons nature, strengths and weaknesses.
She may study Gita on her own and get convinced that she is destined to do
and lead life in accordance with the wishes of the God. And, then she should
pray to God to get the illumination by His Grace.
Basudeb Sen

--------------------------------------------------

Radhey ! Radhey !!

Dear Mr Questioner:

Said Mira Baai - AISE VAR KO KYAA VAROO JO JAYE AUR MAR JAAY ! VAR VARYO
GOPALJI, MHARO CHUDLO AMAR HO JAAY !!

Why should one choose that to be one's husband, who takes birth and dies? Why
should not one choose Girdhar Gopal to be her husband so that her marital
relationship becomes immortal and glitter of bangles never fades ?

Why? Answer..!!

Radhey ! Radhey !!

Nisha Chatterji

---------------------------------------------
Hari Om

This is 'Gita Talk Forum' ! Here we can give you principles , we can tell you as
to what Scriptures provide for and we can state the views of Saints and Sages,
but we can not persuade lady in reference to take a call on an issue which she
herself is clearly perceiving as a SIN? She has her antar-atma guiding her
already. Even if each and every member of this Selfless Divine Forum says that
the act of re-marrying by her is not a sin, the very fact that she is
considering that act to be a SIN, will make that act to be a SIN. We do not make
others commit sin or recommend that one should act against his/her
ANTARATMA/Conscience/Viveka.

What is sin? Sin is an action against one's conscience (antaratma/Viveka/
Discrimination) or an action against dictates of Scriptures (BG 16:24) ! It is
only when one is KIMKARTAVYA VIMOODHA ( in dilemma regarding what is duty/what
is not duty) that the Scriptures are referred. But if one is very clear from
Antaratma , there is no need for any reference to Scriptures or seeking advice.
Hence I am not at all talking regarding views of Scriptures, Saints and Sages
and in particular of Param Shraddheya Swamiji Shri Ramsukhdasji Maharaj on the
issue of re-marriage by a female in principle.

Your antaratma is your Guru/Advisor ! In the instant case, fortunately, the lady
has already an 'awakened viveka/conscience' as she has gone through acute
sorrows already during her now abandoned marital relationship. Secondly, she has
reached Satsanga too through this Divine Forum. VIVEKA as a law gets AWAKENED by
two things: 1- Sorrows 2-Satsanga. Hence she already has , presumably and
logically, an awakened viveka and the voice of such an antar-atma is the BEST
GUIDE. Where then is need for any interference?

Poets have said about this ANTARATMA:

TORA MANN DARPAN KAHLAAYE ! BHALE BURE SAARE KARMO KO DEKHE AUR DIKHAAYE !! Your
mann (antar-atma/conscience/ Viveka) is a mirror. It invariably shows you
(guides you) as to what is good karma and what is bad karma.

Another poet said:

MUKHADAA DEKH LE PRAANI JARA DARPAN MAIN ! DEKH LE KITNA PUNYA HAI KITNA PAAP
TERE JEEVAN MAIN !! O Jeeva (Praani) ! See your face in the mirror (check with
your antaratma/viveka) and find out as regards the quantum of sins or virtues
made by you.

Such is the glory of Viveka/ Antaratma/ Conscience/Discrimination faculty/ "In
built mirror" placed in every human being as a special gift by Paramatma. The
glory of human birth is exclusively due to this "in built mirror" in you.

HOWEVER , if the lady herself, sincerely wants an advice and is in a dilemma
regarding way forward, it is another matter altogether. In that case, let her
ask the Q. We shall give appropriate and correct response to her based on
Scriptures of Sanatan Dharma /Saints and Sages.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadak,
First marriage has to disloved by way of Sastras and that lady should not wear
any thing belonging to her husband. She has to give gap of 30 days before
remarriage. Then she can get remarried in any temple that has prominance of
saints who visited it. Since it second marrage she has to be more careful to
follow sastras. She cannot share pleasures with you on certain days like day
before Ekadasi, on Ekadasi, next day Duvadesi, Poornima, Amavasyiya,  30 days of
Margasiras month. Rest God will bless you. Bhramin ladies are forbidden to
remarriage.
B.S

-------------------------------------------------
-Shree Hari-

Namaste!

Dear vdp the question lacks detail, RATHINDRA PRASAD LAHIRI, brought up some
good points for you to contemplate'
Not withstanding these comments I will give a good point of reference for you
and this lady you aspire to marry: (ex wikipedia)
Hinduism in general disapproves of divorce. A divorced woman is generally forced
to live as a widow. However in theological terms, both the Manusamhita and the
Arthashastra state that if a husband is impotent, a traitor, an ascetic or an
outcast, or missing for a prescribed number of years, the wife take her property
('Stridhan'), leave him without blame and marry again. The Arthashastra also
declares that in other circumstances, divorce can take place only by mutual
consent.

Rather than I getting tangled up in theological debate, I suggest you check out
those references above; some time ago I did read up on this subject, and prima
facie I cant see any sin being occurred by a divorce, and remarriage in the
circumstance you describe, I would put more bias in any research in
Arthashastra, as it appears more ancient and scholarly.

Om ... Shanti ...

Mike.
-----------------------------------------------------


i do not nserstand what this has got to do with Gita and its talk. Why are the
moderators allowing personal matters to appear in here?
krishna

------------------------------------------------


The following information are required to answer:
1. whether the person is married, divorced or going to divorce for
his love lady?
2. what is her age and what is the age of his lady love?
3. how many children this man and his lady love are having and how
many are male children and how many are female children and what are
their ages?
4. will the children accept this marriage?
5. will such marriage will asdversely maffect the future of the lives
of the children?
what is the profession of this man?
6. what is earning of this man?
7. is the lady love of this man a working woman or housewife? will
such marriage bring any disreputation to her or to her family?
8. why this man desires to marry this lady? out of sheet love or just
to satisfy his carnal desire?
9.what trust or guarantee this man can to his lady love that he will
not misbehave or desert her in future after marriage?

RATHINDRA PRASAD LAHIRI

---------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhaks, Namaste!

Dear vpbJi, We understand your dilemma! However, it is not clear from your post
the situation you are in. For example, what is yours and lady's age now; whether
this will be your first marriage. Do you need blessings of this forum to
convince her to remarry or it is a genuine concern for her on your part? Since
she thinks its a sin to remarry, does she have another ways to spend life
differently. I am assuming child is not involved here. Do yours and her
interests match in pursuing spirituality or other aspects such as children,
families on both sides, specially, if you have to live in a joint family! She is
your dream lady as you put it, however, are you hers? In all humility I would
ask you to consider these points.

As much as marriage is appropriate for a divorced person, more so for young
lady, it is still a big concern for long term commitment, specially for a lady
who has gone through the abusive marriage already. I would allow her lot of time
to think about it very carefully and weigh all her options including your
proposal. She may be in need of understanding, love and care from people at this
time!

I don't imply here to take a business like approach and overlook the overriding
love and care for her you have! These are practical considerations for both of
you, not just for her. You know it that Love is blind but marriage is an eye
opener! After few years of marriage, physical attractions for each other are
diminished as a plan of Nature! At that time can both of you say "I couldn't
have gotten better partner than I have now"? Can you allow her all the freedom
to live God-centered life, and join her in it? Giving freedom is receiving
freedom too. Love is such Freedom in the marriage!

Even though I am not directly quoting scriptures, what I am saying is based on
practical implications that comes from Scriptures/BG/Swamiji's teaching and as I
have understood them in my life!

Namaskar..........Pratap Bhatt

-----------------------------------------------------


Marriage grants the opportunity to become devout to each other.It is a social
and spiritual partenership that functions with the fluid capital of love and
dedication.Married life in itself is meditation.This most probably is the
meaning of Khajuraho architecture--a temple complex.One failure is nothing more
than an accident in life which needs rehablitation..
subhashtewari

------------------------------------------

Scriptures say Krishna and Radha never married each other YET they are the top
examples of LOVE [not passion that needs possession by marriage]. Hint is
sufficient for the wise.
Humbly,
Saadhaka
-------------------------------------------------------

I know 2 women from shastra. One is Mandodari and another is Tara (I might be
wrong with the name - it is wife of Sugreeva). Mandodari was wife of Ravana and
after Ravana's death, she accepted Vibhishana as her husband. The wife of
Sugreeva (I think Tara) accepted Vali has her husband when Sugreeva ran away.
After Vali's death, she accepted Sugreeva as her husband again. Don't worry
about this sin.

Relationships are complex. It shows your immaturity to ask this question in this
forum. I think you need to be confident about yourself and try to understand
her. I hope everything that will happen will be good. Have that faith!


At His feet in service,
G B

------------------------------------------------

In another forum some one questioned me: Is there any paap, wrong?
Ans. There are only legal bindings on a human being imposed by law of the land.
In all other matters, one is FREE to explore. In fact, this freedom is what
makes one grow 'what you call spiritually'.
Y V Chawla

-----------------------------------------------

Remarriage should be welcome.
Mohan K Muju

--------------------------------------------------------

Marriage … re-marriage … conjugate unions … THE UNION …



There is absolutely nothing wrong in re-marriage if one chooses to … just like
there is absolutely nothing wrong if one chooses to marry in the first place.
But, it is worth to understand why one wants marriage to start with.



Every living being is born incomplete and perpetually look outward to fill the
void(s) in order to attain completeness. Gender is one such huge void that one
can't fathom how to transcend! In fact it is only next to its elder sibling,
ego, in its formidability. They do not even let the fellow wonder otherwise.
Every fellow inevitably starts cognizing with a self identification (The I) and
what immediately follows is the associated gender. Accordingly, the languages
concocted by such beings are also afflicted by the two - identity and gender.



If you consider it seriously, the two are self-crippled to be incomplete as
ever. The only way they can compensate their lopsided existence is to seek
relations with elements around that seem to complement them in a way. The
complementary requirement from the objects sought out is to possess the
qualities that are absent in oneself. Therefore, a male looks for a female and
vice versa. All other relations are also developed with mutually complementary
qualities in order to balance the mutually perceived difficiencies. Any void -
sense of incompleteness - that is left untreated within would generate a sense
of loneliness within. Everyone looks for relations only to eradicate such sense
of loneliness felt within. Naturally, one develops a kind of attraction to the
qualities that compenstate the lack of the same with oneself. All attractions
are developed only due to the perceived loneliness in the absence of the
targetted object.



Any relation, from social perspectives, can be declared a success if the
completeness that is sought knowingly or unknowingly is attained and more
importantly sustained. In other words, if a perfect harmony is achieved amongst
the particpants in the relation to dissolve them into their collective UNITY,
the immediate purpose of the relations sought is served. BUT, WOULD THAT ABSOLVE
ALL THE RELATIONAL NEEDS ONE IS INFESTED WITH CATEGORICALLY?! Unfortunately, the
answer remains NO!! Any existential union achieved through mutual conjugation,
in spite of attaining a localized COMPLETENESS, is bound toward its own eventual
decimation sooner than it is conceived!!! So, the very collective entity starts
searching for alliances to fill in its newly perceived voids. The search
continues forever ... That is the existential path (DakshiNa Patha).





Coming back to your case, your yearning for the pious lady is very much
appreciable - it is natural as well as sane. If it is the social taboo that she
is hesitant, there is no basis for that - her parents are happy and the one who
wants to marry her is more than happy! If it is the religious taboo that she is
afraid of, you have to make her see through the paradoxes that a religion
imposes in one's ignorance with transparency from your end. IF SHE IS FEELING
LONELY WITHIN, SHE SHOULD ADDRESS HER PROBLEM ASAP! It is every being's natural
duty to address any such loneliness that may arise time to time. Only when one
can address such existential loneliness successfully, one would graduate to
spiritual considerations. BEWARE! TRANSPARENCY ALONE CAN CATCH SUCH NEEDS!! Any
blindfoldedness with wishful ideas and idols (more so if they have religious or
spiritual appearances) would only mislead and misplace as ever. How can a
fragile existence that cannot cater to a small void within can ever fill the
universe that ever is???!!!



But, at the same time, is it not wiser on your part to confirm the conjugate
need from the other end? Observing your appreciation of her qualities regarding
her spiritual orientation, it may be possible that she might be considering the
social separation from her previous husband as a boon in the hiding. It is
possible that she may feel liberated from the social bondage so that she can
focus on the ultimate unity that relieves one from the incomplete voids of
gender and identities altogether ... like Meerabai did! She may be thinking that
another existential marriage/relation could be a hurdle in the ONLY MARRIAGE
that is worthy ever ... THE UNION WITH LORD KRISHNA! If she is into such
transcendental path (Uttara Patha), no meaning in bother her ... you will have
to attend to your loneliness elsewhere.



Respects.



Naga Narayana.
------------------------------------------------------

To vbp
The old beliefs of widow remarriage were based on the belief that the cause of
the husbands death was due to the bad vibes of the wife which may or may not be
partly true, & the reply to which i will not give to you on this public portal
so as not to hurt others
However if you give me the name of the lady on my mail address i may be give you
my answer which you will be free to follow or not
Regards
Balbir singh

Shree hari Ram Ram

Balbirji, we do not encourage exchange of email ids in this forum, thank you,
gita talk moderators, ram ram

-----------------------------------------------


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When Krishna is all in all for this universe why all his referenes are limited
to India . Probably in those times swarga was Himalaya and patal was south India
. At the max we see referene of Lanka in Ramayana and Gandhari from Gandhar in
Mahabharata . But these were part of Indian subcontinent .

Girish

=============================================

Accepting or rejecting (a) Krishna is all in all for this universe, (b) Swarga
is Himalaya and Patal is South India, (c) Lanka in Ramayan and Gandhari from
Gandhar in Maharashtra and all these were part of Indian Continent, MAKES NO
DIFFERENCE TO THE TRUTH (FACTS).
Humbly,
Saadhaka
-----------------------------------------------

Ram..!

India is the country of God. A unique country in its own right. No where else in
the world there is such spiritual fragrance as is in India. Yes, all
incarnations of God take place ONLY in India because God incarnates to
re-establish Dharma. India is the origin country of Dharma and God can come here
only to re-establish Dharma.

Raam..!

Sachin

-----------------------------------------------

You are right, Hindus thought of Krishna limited to the the then boundaries of
India beyond which they might not have much real knowledge. Yes, Krishna is all
in all in the Universe whether this is known to all mankind or not. But Krishna
is known by different names in different socities / lands: God whose son was
Jesus, Prophet's Allah and so on. Do not get confused by the name: human
civilisations across the World in deffirent periods were in search of Thatwhich
is all in all in the Universe and the Universe.
Basudeb Sen

----------------------------------------------

Our civilization and some others like egyptian are quite ancient.You can analyse
certain prayer practices in different religions and observe some similarity.Many
time it makes believe that those prayers are altered forms and devised to
convenience of sadhaks Avtars happened or not,we do observe His omnipresence in
variety of divine applications.The supreme concept of God as Krishna is full of
knowledge about his existence, is felt while we peruse Srimad Bhagwat Gita.His
Viraat swaroop speaks to us about the variety of forms He exists and can appear
from time to time.Although He cannot be explained by we humble humans yet we do
feel Him as and when we meditate with dedication.HE IS THE CAUSE OF ALL THAT
HAPPENS AND YET HE IS NOT INVOLVED IN HAPPENNINGS.And in kaliedoscope of these
happenings we may observe His myriad forms,views.
subhashtewari

-------------------------------------------------

to girish ji
ref ur ? about y reincarnation is only in india please remember that all
religons have different rules beliefs & interpretations 2 help people thru unity
of religon  ; the object being so that people may bow down to god as that
attempts 2 remove the arrogance present in many of us so much so that EVEN THE
KING has to bow down to acknowledge the existance & power of god whose blessings
he seeks before going into battle.
just as all drops of water form riverluets streams rivers finally enetering the
ocean which water evaporates to again form to start the the cycle again which
leads us to believe in reincarnation.
however different religons are free to believe in whatever they think & we must
not think that  hinduism is the most knowledgeable for we have learnt so much in
the fields of medicine,science increasinng our food production etc from the
western world whose development  was  was partly due to their religon
your greatese gift of the very fact that you asked ur question was given u by
the west because indians never questioned the meaning of AUM or the swastika nor
any belief or ritual that the pandits translated to them the meaning from
sanskrit
keep it up & question every thing till u r satisfied
henceforth i will call u GIR-ISH  the LION
balbir singh
-------------------------------------------------
Punarjanma … Avataara … THE TRUTH …



Matter-energy clusters merge and separate perpetually only for one reason - TO
MAINTAIN EQUILLIBRIUM! There is no exception no matter how specific clusters are
identified as - soil, water, air, plants, animals, humans, planets, galaxies …
Everything is recycled to reform the universal appearance in order to preserve
its integral presence AS IS and AS EVER.  Humans, having developed extraordinary
(and, unnecessary!) affinity to their specific forms, would claim some special
existence amongst the rest. But, humans are no more or less than any being or
thing in this universe ... all mortal beings, including the humans, are recycled
just like all these plants to be re-born in variant forms as dictated by the
nature around  ... again and again ...



|| Sasyamiva pachyate martyah sasyamivaajaayate punah ||



One who is dictated by the limitations of one's intellect would get fascinated
by some particular pairs of such mergers and separations in order to define the
span of time and space bound between the two events as "a life". One who
dictates one's intellect with such limited perceptions would isolate such a span
from the rest to believe as if the span perceived is "the life" the associated
entity possessed. ONLY FROM THIS PERSPECTIVE birth and death do mean something.
So are their derivatives such as rebirth (Punarjanma) and re-incarnation
(Avataara).



The paradox in human appreciation of life is … they never appreciate the same
recycling process within the identified span of one's own life … but, claim
heavily how the fellow is subjected to recycling from "one" span or life to
"another" … Some take a helpless attitude that one will be recycled as per their
deeds (Karma) and some take a command to claim that one can dictate what one
would be in the next life. The helpless recycling is often called "re-birth" or
Punarjanma. The seemingly "voluntary" action to take a form is often called
"re-incarnation" or "Avataara".



Really speaking, all matter-energy clusters (Prajaah) are subjected perpetual
morphing (Yagnya) - apparently random in macroscopic or gross sense and very
specific in microscopic or elementary sense. No one can dictate The Yagnya.
Nobody could steer the gross changes in the world in any certain fashion - be it
death of a human body or its path beyond or a planet or anything else. At the
same time, nobody can change the elemental characteristics either - no one can
dictate Hydrogen to combine with Oxygen to make steel! The un-yielding
infinitude of elemental behavior seeks perpetual equilibrium amongst itself to
BE ... to just BE! Any meaning projected on Yagnya is just a wishful belief one
generates within one's perception!! Therefore, one can become anything as well
as nothing at all after death ...



Yonimanye prapadyante shareerattvaaya dehinah |

SthaaNumanye'nusanyanti yathaa karma yathaa shrutam ||



Therefore, if one insists, rebirth is real … it IS real as of NOW as EVER …
helpless recycling is all one can ride as long as the perception remains! If one
insists that God takes Avataara to sustain equilibrium in existence … it IS real
as of NOW and as EVER ... without such a force cycling through all the apparent
recycling, how can there be harmony across the diverse appearances the
matter-energy clusters morphs itself into?! How can any thing can remain
integral to whatever it IS without THAT??!!



If one transcends the limitations of one's intellect ... how can there be any
life isolated in this universe?! ... how can there be any disconnect between any
lives ever??!! ... HOW CAN THERE BE ANYTHING BUT THAT AS IS AND AS EVER???!!!
... Then ... how can there be any recycling at all? ... what is birth and what
is death?? … how can there be any re-birth or re-incarnation???



Does it matter who made the observations and how they were made?! TRUTH remains
AS IS and AS EVER irrespective of who perceives it and when, where and how IT is
perceived! Can Gravity be different because of Newton's interpretation; did the
apples start falling down differently??!! Can the matter-energy relation be
limited to whatever an Einstein says???!!! THE TRUTH REMAINS AS IS and AS EVER.
No one can dictate it in any way. When and where there was no recycling of
matter and energy? When and where there could be anything that sustains itself
without THAT?? How can there be any nows and thens, heres and theres, when ALL
remain THAT ALL-PERVASIVE TRUTH as IS and as EVER???



Please do not try to imagine some lines of boundaries in terms of space, time,
emotions, etc. in an attempt to limit THAT! Of course, NOTHING happens to THAT
... but, it would be a great loss for you though ...



Iha chedavedeetatha satyam (pratibodham amritam) asti na chedihaavedeen mahatee
vinashTih | Bhooteshu bhooteshu vichitya dheerah pretyaasmaallokaan amritaa
bhavanti ||



The wise ones realizing the ALL-INCLUSIVE PRESENCE of the ALL-EXCLUSIVE TRUTH
would erase the notional lines of separation and merger drawn within one's
imagination to BE THAT as IS and as EVER. It ought to be realized HERE and NOW.
Else, it is a great loss to one who doesn't. How can who fails to understand
something while alive (with all the faculties intact) as of now and here can
ever fathom the same after death (when all the faculties are also
disseminated)???!!! ...



Respects.



Naga Narayana.

  ----------------------------------------

Dear Gita-Talk member,

Reincarnations take place all over the globe. The
science is picking up data where ever it can find it
to prove it or disprove the concept of "karma and
reincarnation". The present trend supports the idea
of karma and reincarnation.

Good Luck! Bye!
Notesh Otes

-------------------------------------------





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radhe radhe.

please help me convince the lady of my dreams that it is okay to marry again.her
husband was abusive and abandoned her. he made it clear he has moved on and in a
relationship with his attorney. i have known this lady for years and she is what
i have prayed for--devoted,good, kind and very loving to god and all his
devotees.she is afraid that it is a sin to remarry. the sadakas here are very
knowledgeable and i am sure that you can explain to this good lady that she is
doing no wrong if she marries again. her family have given their blessings and
will be the happiest to see her happily married this time.

radhe radhe.

a sadaka.
vbp

----------------------------------------------------

Dear sadaks,
Dreams by itself is dangerous as it is vanishing causing pains. If it is to
happen it will happen. This subject is more of family issues and worldly
desires. vbp does not realize that he is in flowering stage, from bud stage and
going to asti stage. we know about jada bharat, durva, a bhramin in visnupuran
etc that they all had to take another birth to relish their desire. But desire
is endless Geetha says. so in next birth vbp will get fresh desire and one more
birth.we are all vbp-s. can we turn all our thought, sight, speach, action etc
towards GOD rather than worldly desires. Pardon me for this comment. This site
should be publishing Gyana material than ug-Gyana materials. We should not
become victim to family discussion group rather Sat Sangh. Sadaks please tell-
What is Sat Sangh?
B.S

---------------------------------------------------------


radhe radhe.

thanks for the words of advise.
@ basudeb sen: her husband was abusive to her flaunted his women and he deserted
her for one of them
@nisha chaterji: did krishna tell anyone to renounce and marry him?hindus are
not like christians who encourage women to become nuns who are married to jesus.
@vyas nb: am not forcing her. she wants to remarry but have doubts because of
traditional upbringing.will wait forever for her, will love and support even if
she does not want to marry me.she will not write here because she feels
embarassed to talk about her dilemma.thank you for your enlightening words.
@bs:thank you
@mike:her husband is already in a relationship,is it correct that this good lady
must live the life of a widow when her husband is alive with another woman?
@krishna: why should the moderators not allow this discussion? a devoted lady
has doubts and needs answers.when arjun had doubts and need answers did krishna
tell him that this is not allowed here?

i thank all for taking time to answer and help. i think that we heard what we
need to know.

radhe radhe
vbp.

--------------------------------------------------

Raam..!

It was a difficult question but I must say the responses have been amazingly
clear. The Qs by Lahiri were really focussed and so is Q by Nisha. I tend to
agree with Basudeb Sen and Vyas NB. Mike has referred to Arthshashtra but that
is worldly. At the top are 'moksha-shastras' like Gita, Upanishads. Next are
dharma shashtras and then artha shashtras etc. In any case, the parameters
mentioned there like impotency etc are not applicable here. I would like to know
the basis of the response by B Sathyanarayan. Where it is prescribed precisely?
Response by Krishna though reasonable but is not correct because Gita is
basically teaching 'vyavhaar main paramartha' ( spirituality in day to day
conduct). I don't see any thing wrong in catering to personal Qs so long as we
are clear and mature enough to link the same with principles taught by Gita and
by Maharajji. To my mind, that helps humanity more than pure law of Gita.

In my humble view, here is a Q where law of karma is clearly seen operating and
getting triggered. The questioner here seeks to distinguish love. He finds more
love for lady in reference than in already existing wife and son. The lady in
reference has already encountered a male, who saw more love in another lady than
her. Here is the male who sees more love in her than his existing wife. That is
real clue for lady in reference. Secondly, one should consider here the real aim
of human life. Is it finding love in opposite sex or emancipation? Finding
happiness in whatever little age has now been left or doing austerity? There is
a difference between other life forms and humans. What is that difference?
Deliberation on this aspect by the aggrieved lady should provide her answer.

Ram..!

Sachin

----------------------------------------------------

Ram..!

India is the country of God. A unique country in its own right. No where else in
the world there is such spiritual fragrance as is in India. Yes, all
incarnations of God take place ONLY in India because God incarnates to
re-establish Dharma. India is the origin country of Dharma and God can come here
only to re-establish Dharma.

Raam..!

Sachin

-------------------------------------------------

We continue actions, plans and designs keenly focusing our attention on to some
expected or wanted 'expressions' in future. 'This' moment is always neglected
and the loneliness continue theoretically and practically.

Muralee

----------------------------------------------------

Hinduism has straitjacketed widows (and divorced women like this one) but not
men to lives of loneliness by interpreting our Shastras with a male chauvinist
outlook. Yet as GB below points out there were women who sort of remarried in
Ramayana. Draupdi had 5 husbands in Mahabharata. In this case how can there be a
sin in remarrying when the first husband has abandoned her? If he has moved on
she has the right to move on also and find her soul mate in someone else. Manu
Smriti is a smriti not shruti and should not be consulted in this case. She
should not be afraid of what she has been conditioned to think as sin, rather
she should listen to her Heart where Parmatma resides and take the courage to
follow her heart without fear in this case. There is no sin, no selfishness in
this case, only fear, and fear that Hinduism is guilty of imposing certainly on
widows by its own male chauvinistic error and that only I think in the last
millennium not in it's glorious ancient past.
Anil Bhanot

----------------------------------------------------

To vbp,

You are trying to use what is essentially spirtual path for purpose of material
goal. Spritual path is for people who are trying to free their soul from MOHA,
MAYA etc. to get NIRVANA or MOKSHA, not earthly success.

Ideally You should respect the  lady's wishes and leave her alone. She is
already on higher spiritual path by accepting her fate and possibly trying to
free herself of Moha and Maya. It would be misuse of spritual knowledge to
convince her using spiritual teaching. Just because you fancy her or her family
will be happy is no good reason for her to marry you. Only if her  ANTERATMA
tell her to marry then she should marry, not otherwise.

A person should do what his or her  ANTERATMA tells, because that is the only
thing that connect to a person to divine powers. Person should avoid confusion
by listening too much to family and other so called well-wishers, because in
final analysis only he or she will ripe the fruits, not family members, as the
sage explained to Valmiki, prior to his turning to RAMANAMA.

RAVANA did Sitaharana because his  ANTERATMA, which wanted him to finally free
him from curse by getting killed by Bhagavan Shri Rama, told him to do that
eventhough he knew it was wrong thing to do.

So if you see it as your life's mission then you should persue it, not
otherwise.  This is what Gita would tell. It has nothing to do with social
acceptance or non-acceptance of remarriage, living together, sex outside
marraige and so on. Religion should not be misused for social morals or material
purpose.

Harry Desai

------------------------------------------

Dear Friend,



I truly appreciate your well intended proposal to the lady. It is very clear
from your perspective that it is all in fairness to expect the lady for the
proposed re-marriage. But, I need to warn you my dear friend. No relation stands
on spirituality or carnality or any other quality until the same is not
perceived by all parties involved! Every relation STANDS firmly on only one
thing - MUTUAL CONSENSUS!



Relation spurts only when there is a desire for the same from all the entities
involved. Relation sustains itself only with mutual acceptance and tolerance
amongst the involved individuals. Relation grows only when the party nurtures
mutual appreciation and develop respect for collective values. Relation attains
its ultimate target of UNITY only when all the differences in the stake-holders
of the same mitigate absolutely.



Of course, anything built upon mortal elements is naturally bound to seek its
own dissemination. The union breaks when differences crop up between the related
entities. The bonds start loosening difference of opinions grow. The relation
eats dust eventually as the parties start drifting apart.



Therefore, you do not need try hard to prove some spiritually or socially
benedictory basis to fructify a relation. No matter what you do will not help
you until the other party is convinced for the relation proposed. Therefore, you
need to understand and appreciate why she is hesitating. Only sincere,
transparent, and down-to-earth dialogue would help you break the ice (if any).



As I understand from your utterances, you believe she is afraid of the proposal
due to religious reasons. Then, you should understand her "religion" first.
Trust me! No religion exists in the scripts!! Religion is always deep-rooted in
one's beliefs. Therefore, you need to explore her beliefs, understand them, and
appreciate them. Only then you can ever empathize her stand. Sincere and
transparent empathy invariantly breaks the ice for sure. The ice could be her
coverage or yours or both. You will know then. Once the ice breaks open, either
she will see your point and concede to the proposed relation! Or, you will see
her point and respect the relation as is!! Or, both will modify your views
toward a whole new relation!!!



ALL THE BEST EITHER WAY.



Respects.



Naga Narayana.
-------------------------------------------------

I do not understyand why this personal matter is being given publicity by this
group. I suggest that this be stopped immediately. As for as the gent is
concerned, sir, is it not better that you wash your dirtylinen in your own
house? Please sir, solve your problem yourself. The solution is always in the
problem as as Atharva veda says
krishna

-----------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------

radhe radhe



1. whether the person is married, divorced or going to divorce for
his love lady? am single
2. what is her age and what is the age of his lady love? we are both in late
40's
3. how many children this man and his lady love are having and how
many are male children and how many are female children and what are
their ages? no children from her and one from mine who lives with his
mother...my lady love accepts him
4. will the children accept this marriage? yes
5. will such marriage will asdversely maffect the future of the lives
of the children? no
what is the profession of this man? am professional writer
6. what is earning of this man? good earnings
7. is the lady love of this man a working woman or housewife? non working will
such marriage bring any disreputation to her or to her family?no
8. why this man desires to marry this lady? out of sheet love or just
to satisfy his carnal desire? love the person that she is, will never force
carnal needs on her
9.what trust or guarantee this man can to his lady love that he will
not misbehave or desert her in future after marriage? she is my dream come true
and while there is not guarentee for the future, will try my best.
this discussion is to assure her that she is not commiting any sin by
remarriage. she loves me but is afraid of marrying second time. this is reason
why i ask here so when she reads your advise she will not feel guilty.



thanks to all who answered.



radhe radhe
vbp
-------------------------------------------------

One might need to be sure that the lady who lost her husband is not willing
to marry again really because she considers this as a sin punishable by God.
It all depends on the nature of the ladyand her current circumstances. She
may not be willing to marry because she thinks that she cannot mentally
accept another person as husband while she is still in such high intensity
love and devotion to her departed husband. She may also not want to bring
her children to the care of a foster father. She may worry that he may not
find a new husband of her liking if she remarries and dies not want to take
the risk of getting disappointed. She may be confident of living her life
independent of a husband rest of her life. She may be disgusted with the a
life with a husband. She might like to take up the responsibilty of
completing her lost husband's wishes and unfinished work. She may not like
to take the risk of marrying again and losing a new husband again and get
completely shattered. There could be various other reasons. It may not be
desirable to convince her to marry again by giving arguments as to why
marring again is desirable. She must be helped to think calmly and quietly
on her own on this issue. She would do well to write down her own arguments
of not marrying again and critically examine their about validity in the
light of her future expectations, obligations, resources as well as her
inner nature. She should be encouraged to deliberate with in herself on all
these and given unbiassed responses to her questions on the subject. It is
she who have to come out with a decision that is fully thought out by her.
Often people do not do this excercise adequately and clings to a decision
that really does not suit the persons nature, strengths and weaknesses.
She may study Gita on her own and get convinced that she is destined to do
and lead life in accordance with the wishes of the God. And, then she should
pray to God to get the illumination by His Grace.
Basudeb Sen

--------------------------------------------------

Radhey ! Radhey !!

Dear Mr Questioner:

Said Mira Baai - AISE VAR KO KYAA VAROO JO JAYE AUR MAR JAAY ! VAR VARYO
GOPALJI, MHARO CHUDLO AMAR HO JAAY !!

Why should one choose that to be one's husband, who takes birth and dies? Why
should not one choose Girdhar Gopal to be her husband so that her marital
relationship becomes immortal and glitter of bangles never fades ?

Why? Answer..!!

Radhey ! Radhey !!

Nisha Chatterji

---------------------------------------------
Hari Om

This is 'Gita Talk Forum' ! Here we can give you principles , we can tell you as
to what Scriptures provide for and we can state the views of Saints and Sages,
but we can not persuade lady in reference to take a call on an issue which she
herself is clearly perceiving as a SIN? She has her antar-atma guiding her
already. Even if each and every member of this Selfless Divine Forum says that
the act of re-marrying by her is not a sin, the very fact that she is
considering that act to be a SIN, will make that act to be a SIN. We do not make
others commit sin or recommend that one should act against his/her
ANTARATMA/Conscience/Viveka.

What is sin? Sin is an action against one's conscience (antaratma/Viveka/
Discrimination) or an action against dictates of Scriptures (BG 16:24) ! It is
only when one is KIMKARTAVYA VIMOODHA ( in dilemma regarding what is duty/what
is not duty) that the Scriptures are referred. But if one is very clear from
Antaratma , there is no need for any reference to Scriptures or seeking advice.
Hence I am not at all talking regarding views of Scriptures, Saints and Sages
and in particular of Param Shraddheya Swamiji Shri Ramsukhdasji Maharaj on the
issue of re-marriage by a female in principle.

Your antaratma is your Guru/Advisor ! In the instant case, fortunately, the lady
has already an 'awakened viveka/conscience' as she has gone through acute
sorrows already during her now abandoned marital relationship. Secondly, she has
reached Satsanga too through this Divine Forum. VIVEKA as a law gets AWAKENED by
two things: 1- Sorrows 2-Satsanga. Hence she already has , presumably and
logically, an awakened viveka and the voice of such an antar-atma is the BEST
GUIDE. Where then is need for any interference?

Poets have said about this ANTARATMA:

TORA MANN DARPAN KAHLAAYE ! BHALE BURE SAARE KARMO KO DEKHE AUR DIKHAAYE !! Your
mann (antar-atma/conscience/ Viveka) is a mirror. It invariably shows you
(guides you) as to what is good karma and what is bad karma.

Another poet said:

MUKHADAA DEKH LE PRAANI JARA DARPAN MAIN ! DEKH LE KITNA PUNYA HAI KITNA PAAP
TERE JEEVAN MAIN !! O Jeeva (Praani) ! See your face in the mirror (check with
your antaratma/viveka) and find out as regards the quantum of sins or virtues
made by you.

Such is the glory of Viveka/ Antaratma/ Conscience/Discrimination faculty/ "In
built mirror" placed in every human being as a special gift by Paramatma. The
glory of human birth is exclusively due to this "in built mirror" in you.

HOWEVER , if the lady herself, sincerely wants an advice and is in a dilemma
regarding way forward, it is another matter altogether. In that case, let her
ask the Q. We shall give appropriate and correct response to her based on
Scriptures of Sanatan Dharma /Saints and Sages.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadak,
First marriage has to disloved by way of Sastras and that lady should not wear
any thing belonging to her husband. She has to give gap of 30 days before
remarriage. Then she can get remarried in any temple that has prominance of
saints who visited it. Since it second marrage she has to be more careful to
follow sastras. She cannot share pleasures with you on certain days like day
before Ekadasi, on Ekadasi, next day Duvadesi, Poornima, Amavasyiya, 30 days of
Margasiras month. Rest God will bless you. Bhramin ladies are forbidden to
remarriage.
B.S

-------------------------------------------------
-Shree Hari-

Namaste!

Dear vdp the question lacks detail, RATHINDRA PRASAD LAHIRI, brought up some
good points for you to contemplate'
Not withstanding these comments I will give a good point of reference for you
and this lady you aspire to marry: (ex wikipedia)
Hinduism in general disapproves of divorce. A divorced woman is generally forced
to live as a widow. However in theological terms, both the Manusamhita and the
Arthashastra state that if a husband is impotent, a traitor, an ascetic or an
outcast, or missing for a prescribed number of years, the wife take her property
('Stridhan'), leave him without blame and marry again. The Arthashastra also
declares that in other circumstances, divorce can take place only by mutual
consent.

Rather than I getting tangled up in theological debate, I suggest you check out
those references above; some time ago I did read up on this subject, and prima
facie I cant see any sin being occurred by a divorce, and remarriage in the
circumstance you describe, I would put more bias in any research in
Arthashastra, as it appears more ancient and scholarly.

Om ... Shanti ...

Mike.
-----------------------------------------------------


i do not nserstand what this has got to do with Gita and its talk. Why are the
moderators allowing personal matters to appear in here?
krishna

------------------------------------------------


The following information are required to answer:
1. whether the person is married, divorced or going to divorce for
his love lady?
2. what is her age and what is the age of his lady love?
3. how many children this man and his lady love are having and how
many are male children and how many are female children and what are
their ages?
4. will the children accept this marriage?
5. will such marriage will asdversely maffect the future of the lives
of the children?
what is the profession of this man?
6. what is earning of this man?
7. is the lady love of this man a working woman or housewife? will
such marriage bring any disreputation to her or to her family?
8. why this man desires to marry this lady? out of sheet love or just
to satisfy his carnal desire?
9.what trust or guarantee this man can to his lady love that he will
not misbehave or desert her in future after marriage?

RATHINDRA PRASAD LAHIRI

---------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhaks, Namaste!

Dear vpbJi, We understand your dilemma! However, it is not clear from your post
the situation you are in. For example, what is yours and lady's age now; whether
this will be your first marriage. Do you need blessings of this forum to
convince her to remarry or it is a genuine concern for her on your part? Since
she thinks its a sin to remarry, does she have another ways to spend life
differently. I am assuming child is not involved here. Do yours and her
interests match in pursuing spirituality or other aspects such as children,
families on both sides, specially, if you have to live in a joint family! She is
your dream lady as you put it, however, are you hers? In all humility I would
ask you to consider these points.

As much as marriage is appropriate for a divorced person, more so for young
lady, it is still a big concern for long term commitment, specially for a lady
who has gone through the abusive marriage already. I would allow her lot of time
to think about it very carefully and weigh all her options including your
proposal. She may be in need of understanding, love and care from people at this
time!

I don't imply here to take a business like approach and overlook the overriding
love and care for her you have! These are practical considerations for both of
you, not just for her. You know it that Love is blind but marriage is an eye
opener! After few years of marriage, physical attractions for each other are
diminished as a plan of Nature! At that time can both of you say "I couldn't
have gotten better partner than I have now"? Can you allow her all the freedom
to live God-centered life, and join her in it? Giving freedom is receiving
freedom too. Love is such Freedom in the marriage!

Even though I am not directly quoting scriptures, what I am saying is based on
practical implications that comes from Scriptures/BG/Swamiji's teaching and as I
have understood them in my life!

Namaskar..........Pratap Bhatt

-----------------------------------------------------


Marriage grants the opportunity to become devout to each other.It is a social
and spiritual partenership that functions with the fluid capital of love and
dedication.Married life in itself is meditation.This most probably is the
meaning of Khajuraho architecture--a temple complex.One failure is nothing more
than an accident in life which needs rehablitation..
subhashtewari

------------------------------------------

Scriptures say Krishna and Radha never married each other YET they are the top
examples of LOVE [not passion that needs possession by marriage]. Hint is
sufficient for the wise.
Humbly,
Saadhaka
-------------------------------------------------------

I know 2 women from shastra. One is Mandodari and another is Tara (I might be
wrong with the name - it is wife of Sugreeva). Mandodari was wife of Ravana and
after Ravana's death, she accepted Vibhishana as her husband. The wife of
Sugreeva (I think Tara) accepted Vali has her husband when Sugreeva ran away.
After Vali's death, she accepted Sugreeva as her husband again. Don't worry
about this sin.

Relationships are complex. It shows your immaturity to ask this question in this
forum. I think you need to be confident about yourself and try to understand
her. I hope everything that will happen will be good. Have that faith!


At His feet in service,
G B

------------------------------------------------

In another forum some one questioned me: Is there any paap, wrong?
Ans. There are only legal bindings on a human being imposed by law of the land.
In all other matters, one is FREE to explore. In fact, this freedom is what
makes one grow 'what you call spiritually'.
Y V Chawla

-----------------------------------------------

Remarriage should be welcome.
Mohan K Muju

--------------------------------------------------------

Marriage … re-marriage … conjugate unions … THE UNION …



There is absolutely nothing wrong in re-marriage if one chooses to … just like
there is absolutely nothing wrong if one chooses to marry in the first place.
But, it is worth to understand why one wants marriage to start with.



Every living being is born incomplete and perpetually look outward to fill the
void(s) in order to attain completeness. Gender is one such huge void that one
can't fathom how to transcend! In fact it is only next to its elder sibling,
ego, in its formidability. They do not even let the fellow wonder otherwise.
Every fellow inevitably starts cognizing with a self identification (The I) and
what immediately follows is the associated gender. Accordingly, the languages
concocted by such beings are also afflicted by the two - identity and gender.



If you consider it seriously, the two are self-crippled to be incomplete as
ever. The only way they can compensate their lopsided existence is to seek
relations with elements around that seem to complement them in a way. The
complementary requirement from the objects sought out is to possess the
qualities that are absent in oneself. Therefore, a male looks for a female and
vice versa. All other relations are also developed with mutually complementary
qualities in order to balance the mutually perceived difficiencies. Any void -
sense of incompleteness - that is left untreated within would generate a sense
of loneliness within. Everyone looks for relations only to eradicate such sense
of loneliness felt within. Naturally, one develops a kind of attraction to the
qualities that compenstate the lack of the same with oneself. All attractions
are developed only due to the perceived loneliness in the absence of the
targetted object.



Any relation, from social perspectives, can be declared a success if the
completeness that is sought knowingly or unknowingly is attained and more
importantly sustained. In other words, if a perfect harmony is achieved amongst
the particpants in the relation to dissolve them into their collective UNITY,
the immediate purpose of the relations sought is served. BUT, WOULD THAT ABSOLVE
ALL THE RELATIONAL NEEDS ONE IS INFESTED WITH CATEGORICALLY?! Unfortunately, the
answer remains NO!! Any existential union achieved through mutual conjugation,
in spite of attaining a localized COMPLETENESS, is bound toward its own eventual
decimation sooner than it is conceived!!! So, the very collective entity starts
searching for alliances to fill in its newly perceived voids. The search
continues forever ... That is the existential path (DakshiNa Patha).





Coming back to your case, your yearning for the pious lady is very much
appreciable - it is natural as well as sane. If it is the social taboo that she
is hesitant, there is no basis for that - her parents are happy and the one who
wants to marry her is more than happy! If it is the religious taboo that she is
afraid of, you have to make her see through the paradoxes that a religion
imposes in one's ignorance with transparency from your end. IF SHE IS FEELING
LONELY WITHIN, SHE SHOULD ADDRESS HER PROBLEM ASAP! It is every being's natural
duty to address any such loneliness that may arise time to time. Only when one
can address such existential loneliness successfully, one would graduate to
spiritual considerations. BEWARE! TRANSPARENCY ALONE CAN CATCH SUCH NEEDS!! Any
blindfoldedness with wishful ideas and idols (more so if they have religious or
spiritual appearances) would only mislead and misplace as ever. How can a
fragile existence that cannot cater to a small void within can ever fill the
universe that ever is???!!!



But, at the same time, is it not wiser on your part to confirm the conjugate
need from the other end? Observing your appreciation of her qualities regarding
her spiritual orientation, it may be possible that she might be considering the
social separation from her previous husband as a boon in the hiding. It is
possible that she may feel liberated from the social bondage so that she can
focus on the ultimate unity that relieves one from the incomplete voids of
gender and identities altogether ... like Meerabai did! She may be thinking that
another existential marriage/relation could be a hurdle in the ONLY MARRIAGE
that is worthy ever ... THE UNION WITH LORD KRISHNA! If she is into such
transcendental path (Uttara Patha), no meaning in bother her ... you will have
to attend to your loneliness elsewhere.



Respects.



Naga Narayana.
------------------------------------------------------

To vbp
The old beliefs of widow remarriage were based on the belief that the cause of
the husbands death was due to the bad vibes of the wife which may or may not be
partly true, & the reply to which i will not give to you on this public portal
so as not to hurt others
However if you give me the name of the lady on my mail address i may be give you
my answer which you will be free to follow or not
Regards
Balbir singh

Shree hari Ram Ram

Balbirji, we do not encourage exchange of email ids in this forum, thank you,
gita talk moderators, ram ram

-----------------------------------------------


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When Krishna is all in all for this universe why all his referenes are limited
to India . Probably in those times swarga was Himalaya and patal was south India
. At the max we see referene of Lanka in Ramayana and Gandhari from Gandhar in
Mahabharata . But these were part of Indian subcontinent .

Girish

=============================================

Accepting or rejecting (a) Krishna is all in all for this universe, (b) Swarga
is Himalaya and Patal is South India, (c) Lanka in Ramayan and Gandhari from
Gandhar in Maharashtra and all these were part of Indian Continent, MAKES NO
DIFFERENCE TO THE TRUTH (FACTS).
Humbly,
Saadhaka
-----------------------------------------------

Ram..!

India is the country of God. A unique country in its own right. No where else in
the world there is such spiritual fragrance as is in India. Yes, all
incarnations of God take place ONLY in India because God incarnates to
re-establish Dharma. India is the origin country of Dharma and God can come here
only to re-establish Dharma.

Raam..!

Sachin

-----------------------------------------------

Sadhak says : India is the country of God. A unique country in its own right. No
where else in the world there is such spiritual fragrance as is in India. Yes,
all incarnations of God take place ONLY in India because God incarnates to
re-establish Dharma. India is the origin country of Dharma and God can come here
only to re-establish Dharma.
Saadhaka understands from above garvokti : India is the ONLY country where 23
times Dharma had to be re-established (by 23 incarnations of GOD) because Dharma
lost its existence 23 times in India ONLY and in NO OTHER country of the world.
What message goes to rest of the world through this garvokti is obvious from the
above statement.
Humbly,
Saadhaka

------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,
Many saints have said about India in perticular, that India (Bharatha Kand) is
very condusive for spritual upliftment. One saint has sang a song Gyanapana
(Drink Juice of Gyana), in which he says born in India is a blessing to Moksha.
More details on request
B.S

----------------------------------------------
Every being in the universe is an incarnation of Parama Atma. We in India have
got used to the stories of Dasaavataraara and hypnotized to be;lieve that thes
incar have taken place within the boundaries of ndia or Bharat. Remember that
Turkey and greee were established byu the sons of Yayaati Turvasu and Yavana.
That is why even today Turky is Turukhye and greeks are Ionians. Abraham of the
Old Testament was born in Ur Kasepedim, which was in Babylon in those days and
now is in Iraq. If you carefully observe the name, it could be a distortion of
KASYAPADHAAMA PURA. That is the seat of Kaasyapas. do you know any kaasyapa? Yes
HiraNyakaSipa and the avataara Nrusimha. It must have been in what is now Iraq.
Also, the story of Rama could have taken place in Yugarit (now in Syrian coast).
People of this region venerated samudra raaja tanaya and Asoka vruksha. You the
significance of Ashoka vruksha in Raamaayana. With all this evidence, it is not
correct to conclude that incarnations were limited to India. Further I noticed a
Sadhaka saying India is the land of God. well the fact is every bit of this
creation is God's
Krishna

----------------------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,
                         Namaskar!

Sadak Sachin's response seem to be quite satisfying! Definitely, it is the
environment which, develops the psychological thinking of human. In India Karma,
Rebirth,Ishwara, Avtars....etc have been inseparable part of the culture (from
pre-Vedic period) since tens of thousand of years which, is lacking even
currently in most parts of the world. Miracles as Lord Krishna, Rama have done
have been done in other part of the world as well but, their attribution and
interpretation is given differently. For example, Christ is considered son of
God while Hazrat Mahmood as messenger of God and the like.......

You may be astonished to know that not all living humans at Lord Krishna's time
were aware that Lord Krishna was incarnation of God!!! In fact only his parents
Deviki and Vasudev who have seen his Rupa and listened to HIM at the time of
birth or then later during Mahabharta Battle, Arjuna who only could see the
Virat-Swarupa on getting Devine eyes from Lord Krishna. To rest, Lord Krishna
has been just a ordinary powerful human with some extra ordinary powers! Of
course, it was however, Bhisham-Pitamaha, who was also aware of actuality.

Concluding, God does take Avtara only in India but takes Avtara anywhere
wherever the need is, in the whole of Universe what to speak of other parts of
the World! It would be more accurate to tell that whole universe just only a
part of God as Lord Krishna described in B-Gita Chapter 11, Last verse!

Narayana, Narayana!

(Kuldeep Kumar Kaul)

------------------------------------------------

You are right, Hindus thought of Krishna limited to the the then boundaries of
India beyond which they might not have much real knowledge. Yes, Krishna is all
in all in the Universe whether this is known to all mankind or not. But Krishna
is known by different names in different socities / lands: God whose son was
Jesus, Prophet's Allah and so on. Do not get confused by the name: human
civilisations across the World in deffirent periods were in search of Thatwhich
is all in all in the Universe and the Universe.
Basudeb Sen

----------------------------------------------

Our civilization and some others like egyptian are quite ancient.You can analyse
certain prayer practices in different religions and observe some similarity.Many
time it makes believe that those prayers are altered forms and devised to
convenience of sadhaks Avtars happened or not,we do observe His omnipresence in
variety of divine applications.The supreme concept of God as Krishna is full of
knowledge about his existence, is felt while we peruse Srimad Bhagwat Gita.His
Viraat swaroop speaks to us about the variety of forms He exists and can appear
from time to time.Although He cannot be explained by we humble humans yet we do
feel Him as and when we meditate with dedication.HE IS THE CAUSE OF ALL THAT
HAPPENS AND YET HE IS NOT INVOLVED IN HAPPENNINGS.And in kaliedoscope of these
happenings we may observe His myriad forms,views.
subhashtewari

-------------------------------------------------
Spiritual fragrance as is in India ?  A country where baby girls are murdered
and adult girls are raped. Where human index is one of the lowest in the world.
A country where Rama threw out his pregnant wife. Ridiculous.
Kindly answer the charges or Unsubscribe.
Alok

--------------------------------------------------

Gandhar is in Afghanistan.

Durgesh Mankikar,MD

--------------------------------------------------

to girish ji
ref ur ? about y reincarnation is only in india please remember that all
religons have different rules beliefs & interpretations 2 help people thru unity
of religon ; the object being so that people may bow down to god as that
attempts 2 remove the arrogance present in many of us so much so that EVEN THE
KING has to bow down to acknowledge the existance & power of god whose blessings
he seeks before going into battle.
just as all drops of water form riverluets streams rivers finally enetering the
ocean which water evaporates to again form to start the the cycle again which
leads us to believe in reincarnation.
however different religons are free to believe in whatever they think & we must
not think that hinduism is the most knowledgeable for we have learnt so much in
the fields of medicine,science increasinng our food production etc from the
western world whose development was was partly due to their religon
your greatese gift of the very fact that you asked ur question was given u by
the west because indians never questioned the meaning of AUM or the swastika nor
any belief or ritual that the pandits translated to them the meaning from
sanskrit
keep it up & question every thing till u r satisfied
henceforth i will call u GIR-ISH the LION
balbir singh
-------------------------------------------------
Punarjanma … Avataara … THE TRUTH …



Matter-energy clusters merge and separate perpetually only for one reason - TO
MAINTAIN EQUILLIBRIUM! There is no exception no matter how specific clusters are
identified as - soil, water, air, plants, animals, humans, planets, galaxies …
Everything is recycled to reform the universal appearance in order to preserve
its integral presence AS IS and AS EVER. Humans, having developed extraordinary
(and, unnecessary!) affinity to their specific forms, would claim some special
existence amongst the rest. But, humans are no more or less than any being or
thing in this universe ... all mortal beings, including the humans, are recycled
just like all these plants to be re-born in variant forms as dictated by the
nature around ... again and again ...



|| Sasyamiva pachyate martyah sasyamivaajaayate punah ||



One who is dictated by the limitations of one's intellect would get fascinated
by some particular pairs of such mergers and separations in order to define the
span of time and space bound between the two events as "a life". One who
dictates one's intellect with such limited perceptions would isolate such a span
from the rest to believe as if the span perceived is "the life" the associated
entity possessed. ONLY FROM THIS PERSPECTIVE birth and death do mean something.
So are their derivatives such as rebirth (Punarjanma) and re-incarnation
(Avataara).



The paradox in human appreciation of life is … they never appreciate the same
recycling process within the identified span of one's own life … but, claim
heavily how the fellow is subjected to recycling from "one" span or life to
"another" … Some take a helpless attitude that one will be recycled as per their
deeds (Karma) and some take a command to claim that one can dictate what one
would be in the next life. The helpless recycling is often called "re-birth" or
Punarjanma. The seemingly "voluntary" action to take a form is often called
"re-incarnation" or "Avataara".



Really speaking, all matter-energy clusters (Prajaah) are subjected perpetual
morphing (Yagnya) - apparently random in macroscopic or gross sense and very
specific in microscopic or elementary sense. No one can dictate The Yagnya.
Nobody could steer the gross changes in the world in any certain fashion - be it
death of a human body or its path beyond or a planet or anything else. At the
same time, nobody can change the elemental characteristics either - no one can
dictate Hydrogen to combine with Oxygen to make steel! The un-yielding
infinitude of elemental behavior seeks perpetual equilibrium amongst itself to
BE ... to just BE! Any meaning projected on Yagnya is just a wishful belief one
generates within one's perception!! Therefore, one can become anything as well
as nothing at all after death ...



Yonimanye prapadyante shareerattvaaya dehinah |

SthaaNumanye'nusanyanti yathaa karma yathaa shrutam ||



Therefore, if one insists, rebirth is real … it IS real as of NOW as EVER …
helpless recycling is all one can ride as long as the perception remains! If one
insists that God takes Avataara to sustain equilibrium in existence … it IS real
as of NOW and as EVER ... without such a force cycling through all the apparent
recycling, how can there be harmony across the diverse appearances the
matter-energy clusters morphs itself into?! How can any thing can remain
integral to whatever it IS without THAT??!!



If one transcends the limitations of one's intellect ... how can there be any
life isolated in this universe?! ... how can there be any disconnect between any
lives ever??!! ... HOW CAN THERE BE ANYTHING BUT THAT AS IS AND AS EVER???!!!
... Then ... how can there be any recycling at all? ... what is birth and what
is death?? … how can there be any re-birth or re-incarnation???



Does it matter who made the observations and how they were made?! TRUTH remains
AS IS and AS EVER irrespective of who perceives it and when, where and how IT is
perceived! Can Gravity be different because of Newton's interpretation; did the
apples start falling down differently??!! Can the matter-energy relation be
limited to whatever an Einstein says???!!! THE TRUTH REMAINS AS IS and AS EVER.
No one can dictate it in any way. When and where there was no recycling of
matter and energy? When and where there could be anything that sustains itself
without THAT?? How can there be any nows and thens, heres and theres, when ALL
remain THAT ALL-PERVASIVE TRUTH as IS and as EVER???



Please do not try to imagine some lines of boundaries in terms of space, time,
emotions, etc. in an attempt to limit THAT! Of course, NOTHING happens to THAT
... but, it would be a great loss for you though ...



Iha chedavedeetatha satyam (pratibodham amritam) asti na chedihaavedeen mahatee
vinashTih | Bhooteshu bhooteshu vichitya dheerah pretyaasmaallokaan amritaa
bhavanti ||



The wise ones realizing the ALL-INCLUSIVE PRESENCE of the ALL-EXCLUSIVE TRUTH
would erase the notional lines of separation and merger drawn within one's
imagination to BE THAT as IS and as EVER. It ought to be realized HERE and NOW.
Else, it is a great loss to one who doesn't. How can who fails to understand
something while alive (with all the faculties intact) as of now and here can
ever fathom the same after death (when all the faculties are also
disseminated)???!!! ...



Respects.



Naga Narayana.

----------------------------------------

Dear Gita-Talk member,

Reincarnations take place all over the globe. The
science is picking up data where ever it can find it
to prove it or disprove the concept of "karma and
reincarnation". The present trend supports the idea
of karma and reincarnation.

Good Luck! Bye!
Notesh Otes

-------------------------------------------





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Hare Krishna
My mother lived her full but still why do i think that she could have lived a
little longer and a thought of her being not there gives me a lot of pain.I go
to the Krishna temple but when i go to sleep or when i am alone i keep weeping.I
know this day comes in everyone's life but still Please guide me.We talk about
being unattached and so on but i find it really dificult.Once again please guide
me its my humble request.
Hare Krishna
Hare Rama

Sanjeev

============================================

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Hare Krishna
My mother lived her full but still why do i think that she could have lived a
little longer and a thought of her being not there gives me a lot of pain.I go
to the Krishna temple but when i go to sleep or when i am alone i keep weeping.I
know this day comes in everyone's life but still Please guide me.We talk about
being unattached and so on but i find it really dificult.Once again please guide
me its my humble request.
Hare Krishna
Hare Rama

Sanjeev

============================================

Radhe Krishna

You are thinking so, because you have still desire to take more happiness out of
her. You are crying for your OWN happiness not for her departure. It is for
one's SWAARTHA that one cries, else who does not know whoever takes birth ,
dies? Now concentrate on doing Son's role and get all prescribed rites done for
her with full dedication. Do not forget to immerse her ashes into Holy Ganges.
Go yourself there and perform all prescribed rituals. Walk on the path shown by
her. Remember her fondly and see her in a better Loka.

Mohit Desai

----------------------------------------------
Shri Hari

You are getting that pain because of selfishness only. UTNA HEE UPKAAR SAMAJH
KOI JITNA SAATH NIBHADE....be content with whatever good she has done to you.
Dont cry saying more..more !  Had she lived longer, what would have happened?
What happened when she was there before you? Could you serve her to the best of
your ability ? Do not cry now.Your pain is that had she lived longer, You would
have been more happy...isnt it? But a mother does not think so. She sacrifices
her pleasures for giving pleasure to her child, and you are crying because she
left you and had she remained longer, you would have been happy. See the
difference.

Ashish Dhawan

-------------------------------------------

Namaste

One who takes birth, dies. But it is natural to get sorrowful when the highest
capital of a human...mother departs. The laws of nature are strange. You are not
supposed to cry even, because if any one cries after death the departed soul has
to drink the tears as per Scriptures. The best way to avoid such state is to do
your duty to your elders when they are alive. It is also a law of nature that if
you have done your duty diligently , you dont remember the departed soul that
badly. Sorrow will be there, tears may too come but intensity will be less. Now
what guidance can be given to you, except do after death rituals quite seriously
and with shraddha. Distribute sweets to poor children and visualise her being
happy and in company of Almighty. Dont cry...for the reason given above. Keep
doing your duties.

Manoj Srivastava

------------------------------------------

Dear Sir,
First of all our deep condolences on your big loss.
At the same time I feel proud of fellow Indians where we still have sons who are
attached to their mothers.
Please don't treat this as weakness, its a strength of very high calibre.
While defining detachment, we must recognize that detachment as described in
scriptures don't mean losing attachment with higher dharma.
Detachment as per scriptures mean detaching from lower/negative values by
attaching to higher dharma.
What else can be higher dharma than matra-dharma? Attaching to your mother is
hence a strength and never think of detaching from that divine love.
Weeping in rememberance of your mother(God personified on earth) would help you
heal, like crying in rememberance of God.

regds,
rakesh

----------------------------------------

One wants to do away with pain, psychological discomfort by comforting ideas,
going to temple or other escapes. Bearing the pain 'as it is' without any
explanations lets you touch the Original ground.
Y V Chawla

------------------------------------------

Jai Siyaaram

Do your duty towards the departed soul. Time will heal the wounds. Whenever you
remember her...pray. !

Jai Siyaaraam

Sanjay Joshi

------------------------------------------

Radhey ! Radhey !!

The root of sorrow is desire for happiness

Radhey ! Radhey !!

Nisha Chatterji

----------------------------------------------

Indeed Mother is not only the most important but the only person that we
actually get birth inside and then
  get nurtured by her blood in scientific terms
and
when out of womb get nurtured by her milk as the only diet for four months.

This fact was most brilliantly bought forward by Shree Ganesha
when he was asked to make a circle of world he moved around parents and retold
that this world would have been non existent if he was not
  born and brought up by the mother and father.

However Lord Krishna saya in Geeta that one who thinks that we should just stop
at the understanding of our physical father and mother then it is not
appreciable of soul birth from our soul's
Father and Mother
that are
Sat Purush and Aadee Maya.

One must understand that our own
father and mother
  and
we our selves
and
even our own childern
shall to go back to
  Sat Purush and Aadee maya
and ultimatly by divine grace achieve Moksha.

if one do nothing and remains in love with
Jad ansh then
one goes into atam adhaugatee as said by Lord and becomes
matter or panch bhoot (solid,gas,liquid,space,plasma) in next birth;

one who reside in Prana becomes plants

and one who resides in mind becomes animal and

one who resides in Budhi becomes human and

one who gets atam shashatkaar becomes Devta;

then abhaas purush;
kutusth purush
and finally satpurush in current life
and those alone gets Moksha as said by Lord in Geeta.

Thus we all pray that your mother is back to resource
and we all shall do our best
in this lifetime to achieve Moksha and
not wait for next human birth
as it is almost certain that with great effort
human can again be born in human form if
one overcome Tamas and Rajas and get into Sattav
as narrated by Lord Krishna.

--

For global peace ;
Act local please.

With best greetings

DR PUNEET GUPTA

---------------------------------------------------

Dear Sanjeev,
What you are going thru is a natural and must happen process. Losing mother is
the most painful incident in life more socess to an Indian. Do not feel bad
about it Honestly, I would advise you to weep as much a syou can for your
mother. But at the same time look at your wife, children and your duty (job)
etc. By neglecting them, you can not get your mother back and more over they
suffer. will your mothe rbe happy then. Your objective should be to keep your
mother happy even when she is not amidst you. That is the job of a devoted son.
Karm akaanda boils down to doing such jobs and works that would have pleased the
parent. Go ahead, do not feel shy of weeping. It gets the pain out of your heart
and helps you to focus on you rfuture. god and your mom bless you my boy
krishna
--------------------------------------------

If you nurture a thought that although she has died,yet she is always looking
after you in an invisible manner,it will not only console you but will help you
accept the truth  gradually.
subhashtewari


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When Krishna is all in all for this universe why all his referenes are limited
to India . Probably in those times swarga was Himalaya and patal was south India
. At the max we see referene of Lanka in Ramayana and Gandhari from Gandhar in
Mahabharata . But these were part of Indian subcontinent .

Girish

=============================================

Hari Om

As usual I see wonderful talent emerging in this Divine Forum ! It is all Divine
Grace. Welcome Sachin ! This Forum is exceptional, a place where you can make
exception to Satyam Brooyaat, Priyam Brooyat, Na Brooyat Satyam Apriyam. Here
you can afford to speak Sat even if it is bitter. But you must speak SAT !

I agree with Sadhak Sachin and Kuldipji! Many sadhaks have confused 'avtaar'
with omnipresence of Paramatma. Just As: There is water everywhere beneath the
surface of earth but it comes out only through a well ! Just As: God is every
where but emerges only where there is Prem.. Similarly: While God is everywhere
but when it comes to avataar , it has to take place in India only . Reason is
simple: Re-establishment has to be at the place of establishment only. There may
be a different geographical state/definition of 'India' as we see today and as
then existing, but that is not material. 'Kandhaar' is in Afghanistan,
'Gandhaar' may not be (I am not sur). I don't see any logic in our trying to
find out what are the new names of cities mentioned in Scriptures. India is
India.

World has many religions but except Sanatan Dharma, all other have founders. The
Sanatan Dharma has no founder. It is NITYA (beginningless /end less/ ever
existing) - as old as is humanity itself.

Great Divine Satsanga ! Let us deliberate with no bias, equanimously. Let us be
proud of our country , of our heritage and of our Sanatan Dharma. Swamiji
Ramsukhdasji Maharaj always said that those who took birth in this great country
always have extra-privilege, very special Divine grace...!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

------------------------------------------------

Jai Siyaram

All 23 or more avataars of Param Prabhu Parameshwar have taken place in India
and any future avataars will also take place in India only. That is what
Scriptures say. This fact has no relevance with presence of God everywhere.
India is country of God - this statement does not mean that God is not present
in other countries. I wonder where Sadhak Alok is having his abode, but am sure
he must be living on the planet called earth only. Once that is so, is he sure
that the place where he lives no abortions take place or no injustice is
apparent ? For such flimsy and funny reasons one should not criticise one's home
country. Shame is not in what he has stated about India or about Lord Rama, but
shame is in the fact that he too belongs to this Great Country of Rishis, Saints
and Sages. One who can not be of his birth place, what can he be to other place?
Nothing, in fact....!

We should deliberate on the subject. One should give reasons for one's view. We
are not outcaste who have to worry as to whether the truth spoken is received
with what sentiments by other countries. We are in Satsanga and have duty to
speak truth. Oh....those who reside outside India how much flith they carry
about India? I am sure such people are not representative sample....! Somebody
from India may also be at the helm of this Divine Forum too....!!! That is
India.

Jai Siyaaraam

Sanjay Joshi

-------------------------------------------

Aum Namah Shivay

The response of Humble Sadhak is shocking. Where is need for worrying about
outer world while expressing truth? Even if the response of Sachin is wrong
(which it is not), then also how the image of India will take a beating? Is this
Great country so weak? No, it is not. We are weak, biased and proudy as
individuals. There is no GARVOKTI in what Sachin has said, you are VISHAM. You
are biased, have incomprensible logics and ASHOCHYANANVA
SHOCHASTVAM...PRAGYAAVADANSCH BHASASE..Gita 2:11! Realisation of Vasudev Sarvam
with such bias of antahkarana: Impossible.

Regards

Manoj Srivastava


-------------------------------------------

Radhey-Krishna

All reincarnations have happened in India because the India is mother country of
all religions. No country is as spiritual in essence as is India. There is no
GARVOKTI here, it is truth. In India only there are 6 seasons in a year...where
else in world? In India, still the dharma division made by Holy Gita is
practiced? Where else in worldf? In India Holy Ganges flows. Where else in
world? In India, Saints and Sages take birth. Where else in world? Even
foreigners like Mother Theresa have come to India and served humanity. Where
else in the world she went? India is unique example of unity in diversity. Where
else in the world such example exists. Fools only will adopt the yardstick of
material affluence to judge India. Even today, whatever the developed nations
may be boasting or some spoilt soul of India may be bragging sitting there, but
the fact is INDIA IS THE RICHEST COUNTRY in the world. Highest number of Saints,
Sages, Rishis, Warriors, Intellectuals, Scientists, Inventors, Philosophers,
Craftsmen...have taken birth in India. Where else in the world?

But the logic advanced by Kuldip Kaul and Sachin is the best answer to the Q. In
future also, India will be the focal point of the world. Lord Kali will
reincarnate here only in a shudra family and will reestablish Dharma as promised
by Gita.

Mohit Desai

--------------------------------------------------

When Krishna is all in all for this universe why all his referenes are limited
to India . Probably in those times swarga was Himalaya and patal was south India
. At the max we see referene of Lanka in Ramayana and Gandhari from Gandhar in
Mahabharata . But these were part of Indian subkontinent .

Girish

-------------------------------------------------------

Namaste

Responses of Humble Sadhak and Alok are too negative to deserve any comment at
all. What to say? Indeed it is greatness of Paramatma and Mother Earth that we
all are thriving. Did Alok ever read Ramayana? Look at the hatred and
immaturity! They are called Indians abroad. Dear Humble Sadhak: We are worried
about your objection to Sachin more, as to what impression does that carry
rather than for Sachin's genuine comments. Garvokti is in your message not in
his message.

Ashish Dhawan


------------------------------------------------
Lord Krishna was never the lord of earth alone but had power to affect whole
universe especially the milky way galaxy was his main play station.

Bhagvatam declares that
earth lies
thirty thousand yojans
from the hood of sheshnag.

The modern astronomy tells us that
sun lies
thirty thousand light years
from black hole.

science tells that
black hole of milky way
is approximatly the
oldest black hole
and about one thousand like these exist

Bhagvatam tells that sheshnag was
eldest of all
one thousand brothers.

science tells that milky way black hole has
engulfed three other small black holes till date.

Bhagvatam quotes that Sheshnag killed
three of the brothers and then went into penance.

Father and mother of Sheshnag are as old as the
creation of our universe and
science tells
that milky way black hole was formed very early
after big bang and is about as old as creation itself.
Astro science tells that black hole of milky was
the first one to form after big bang and still survives
after clashing with three black holes.

Lord Krishna says to Arjuna
I have revealed this ancient knowledge
in remote past
to sun
meaning the time when originated the Sun
and from sun
symbolizing the soul
it percolated down to
intellect
mind
prana
and Jad

symbolized by
Ishvankoo
Manu
rishis
kings

To understand this remote past
and the origin of sun
Bhagvatam mentions the fourteen Manvantras.

the seventh manvantra is ongoing.
actually to understan the secret of
fourteen manvantras
just like
fourteen moon days
we have

Hindu month starting in
dark moon
then fourteen days of developing moon
then similar fourteen days of decreasing moon
finally dark night of next month

similarily
hindu sun cycle
kalp
start with a
dark manvantar
then fourteen developing manvantars
then fourteen decreasing Manvantars
finally dark unnamed manvantar or pralay manvantar.

Lord krishna  thus say
new sun building block matter is born in the
dark manvantar
adjacent to sheshnag
also science say stars originate near black hole

then solar system takes form in say sixth manvantar.
now sun takes 240 million years to get around black hole signifying one
manvantar.

each 240 million years saw different origins of life
first came microscopic and macroscopic life in water
symbolized by  FISH incarnation of Lord.

then came dinosaurs symbolized by TURTLE incarnation of Lord as science tells us
that turtles were present throughout the dinosaurs period and
also survived even after their death.

Then in another 240 million cycle came the four chambered heart and sharp tusk
animals symbolized by WILD BOAR incarnation of Lord.

Then evolved mammals with strong territorial and multiple female dominance
symbolized by LION incarnation of Lord.

finally crude human ancesters evolved on earth in recent manvantra symbolized by
VAMAN avtar of Lord.

finally humans evolved as warriors occupying whole of the planet in current
seventh manvantra symbolized by PURSHU RAM avtar.

In coming closing up manvantras only pure souls like that of Lord RAMA and Lord
KRISHNA shall survive in twenty ninth manvantras as our milky way shall reach
very close to the great attractor for restart of THIRD kalp,with blowing off the
current sun and evolution of new sun.

after creation of our present sun
one dark
fourteen developing and
six wanning manvantars have gone
as we are in seven-th
thus actually 15+6=21 manvantars has gone
which means
the sun is about five billion years old
as revealed by Science and Bhagvat text.

and as we are in SECOND kalp
means
29 plus 21 manvantras
total fifty manvantras
meaning universe is
50 x 240 million years
around 12 billion years old

Latest Astronomy tells us today that

sun is about five billion years old

and universe is about twelve billion years old

these are well revealed by Lord Krishna

even further Bhagvatam calculations reveal that this universe shall expand for
1.2 crore crore crore years

nicknamed as
- Gupta limit-
by me for scientific writings

and then take same time to collapse back into mahakaal or bhavar Gufa as
mentioned in Geeta
and other Hindu scriptures.

Lord masters
multiple universe thus
science say we account for only a little energy in
our single universe
rest is missing
because Lord creats multiple universe
each from a part or little subset of own energy
as mentioned in Bhagvat.

koti koti koti
oblivations to Lord Krishna
Jai Shree Hari.

Dr. Puneet Gupta
------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhaka,

Namahshivay,

Bharat (India) is the `udgam sthana' (home - beginning of the creation) of the
creation of this universe and the sacred place All Mighty God chose to start the
play of being et se anek (taking many forms out of his One form). That is the
reason God chose to manifest Himself in different Avtaar forms on the most
revered land Bharat!

Shubhamastu

RAJINDER MOHAN VOHRA

-------------------------------------------

Dear Alok,
you have precisely defined the culture in actual suffering.And perhahps because
of these degenerations various reincarnations have to evolve from time to time
in india.Even those in command and enjoying elite status are insensitive to
problems of suffering humanity particularly ladies.everywhere.There are mass
movements organised by unscrupulous authorities in favour of rakshas.(recently
punjab).And it was during very immoral and irresponsible environment that Lord
Krishna struggled.This site is one of rare chances for all  of us to express and
remain connected.May be one day we are able cleanse the air.
subhashtewari

-------------------------------------------

Raam...!

Reply to Alok ! It is a law of nature: As you are, so looks the world to you.
Your looking at this great country is representative only of your own
mind/intellect and be certain that by your childish outburst no harm is caused
to this country and you only have sowed seeds of negative karma. Let such hatred
and negative conduct not become your habit. Concentrate on studies. If by Divine
Grace you have touched upon this type of Satsanga Forum make good use of it
rather than utterring non sense.Never forget your parents were born here and you
too are made of this dust only. What kind of service you can render to humanity
if you hate the very dust from which you have been made?

That reminds me of the story of two ants who met after long time. One was living
on a sugar mountain, was healthy and happy. Other on a salt mountain and was sad
and weak. Sugar one praised its home and took the salt ant there. When checked,
the salt ant said it finds no difference between its salt home and this sugar
home. That surprised sugar ant. It made the salt ant open its mouth and found
that it is retaining a salt crystal still in the mouth !!! Negativity, hatred,
violent senseless exhibition of emotions..these are those salt crystals which
prevent you from appreciating truth. Throw them away before they become part of
your habit. Youngsters can do it faster because habits take roots in young age.
Later such non sensical actions become habit and start writing your destiny. Act
fast.

Raam...!

Sachin

-----------------------------------------------

Accepting or rejecting (a) Krishna is all in all for this universe, (b) Swarga
is Himalaya and Patal is South India, (c) Lanka in Ramayan and Gandhari from
Gandhar in Maharashtra and all these were part of Indian Continent, MAKES NO
DIFFERENCE TO THE TRUTH (FACTS).
Humbly,
Saadhaka
-----------------------------------------------

Ram..!

India is the country of God. A unique country in its own right. No where else in
the world there is such spiritual fragrance as is in India. Yes, all
incarnations of God take place ONLY in India because God incarnates to
re-establish Dharma. India is the origin country of Dharma and God can come here
only to re-establish Dharma.

Raam..!

Sachin

-----------------------------------------------

Sadhak says : India is the country of God. A unique country in its own right. No
where else in the world there is such spiritual fragrance as is in India. Yes,
all incarnations of God take place ONLY in India because God incarnates to
re-establish Dharma. India is the origin country of Dharma and God can come here
only to re-establish Dharma.
Saadhaka understands from above garvokti : India is the ONLY country where 23
times Dharma had to be re-established (by 23 incarnations of GOD) because Dharma
lost its existence 23 times in India ONLY and in NO OTHER country of the world.
What message goes to rest of the world through this garvokti is obvious from the
above statement.
Humbly,
Saadhaka

------------------------------------------------
Raam...!

Reply to Humble Sadhak : I am sitting in Satsanga and hence have no
consideration as to what message goes to the rest of world by my views on the
subject. Only care which I need take is to express Truth as I understand that to
be. Yes..India is the ONLY ONLY country where God has taken Avtaars in the past
and would take in future. It is a statement of fact as I believe. If you have
desire to express contrary opinion , I do not, can not and should not object to
it. When I can not, how can you ? Why don't you give reasons as to the opposite
view? Do that, rather than worrying about appeasement or non appeasement of
imaginary constituents !

Yes...If God has taken say 23 Avataras so far, He did so to re-establish Dharma
in that country from which it originated. You are wondering merely because you
do not believe that or have not read Scriptures at all.

SAT (Truth) knows no boundaries ! Yes..India is the country from where Sanatan
Dharma has originated and it will continue to be that country for ever in this
Kalpa and hence all Avataars of God will continue to be in India ONLY ! Where is
'garvokti' here? It is a statement of fact. The shadow of 'garv' is all in your
inequanimous mind/intellect and no where else.

Raam...!

Sachin


-------------------------------------

dear brother, lots of loves and best wishes.
you must first try to undertake the job of study of geeta and other books giving
details of Lord Krishnas leelals and universal guidelines. no where in geeta or
any other literature lord krishna addresses to any particular group or place .
His all speeches are  specifically addressed to man in genral and also the
utility of His teaching and words are eternally meant for the whole human
kind.now your concept of swarg and patala also is well spoken and written in
puranas and shastras . these are not the places available on earth they are
higher lokas where one can reach with  astral bodies. these lokas are to be
crossed to reach the final consummation to  mohkhshya.
  now the second part of your query, why incarnations take place in india only.
dear sir you know that the saints and sages of this country, till date are
incessantly pursuing the quest for knowing the secrets of spirit and self
realisation,since the beginning of the creation. the same is evident from the
well recorded facts and figures and proper documentation. these facts and
figures are also well accepted and acknowledged by the philosophers and the
masters of science and arts of western world.perhaps you know that even profit
Mohammad and Christ have visited India for their spiritual gains. NOW TELL ME
WHERE ELSE THE GOD should incarnate as jagat guru.this is a wast subject and
needs time and space.

as such i hope this short description helps you to solve your doubt. please feel
free to contact me as and when you need some help. ckkaul


--------------------------------------



Dear Sadaks,
Many saints have said about India in perticular, that India (Bharatha Kand) is
very condusive for spritual upliftment. One saint has sang a song Gyanapana
(Drink Juice of Gyana), in which he says born in India is a blessing to Moksha.
More details on request
B.S

----------------------------------------------
Every being in the universe is an incarnation of Parama Atma. We in India have
got used to the stories of Dasaavataraara and hypnotized to be;lieve that thes
incar have taken place within the boundaries of ndia or Bharat. Remember that
Turkey and greee were established byu the sons of Yayaati Turvasu and Yavana.
That is why even today Turky is Turukhye and greeks are Ionians. Abraham of the
Old Testament was born in Ur Kasepedim, which was in Babylon in those days and
now is in Iraq. If you carefully observe the name, it could be a distortion of
KASYAPADHAAMA PURA. That is the seat of Kaasyapas. do you know any kaasyapa? Yes
HiraNyakaSipa and the avataara Nrusimha. It must have been in what is now Iraq.
Also, the story of Rama could have taken place in Yugarit (now in Syrian coast).
People of this region venerated samudra raaja tanaya and Asoka vruksha. You the
significance of Ashoka vruksha in Raamaayana. With all this evidence, it is not
correct to conclude that incarnations were limited to India. Further I noticed a
Sadhaka saying India is the land of God. well the fact is every bit of this
creation is God's
Krishna

----------------------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,
Namaskar!

Sadak Sachin's response seem to be quite satisfying! Definitely, it is the
environment which, develops the psychological thinking of human. In India Karma,
Rebirth,Ishwara, Avtars....etc have been inseparable part of the culture (from
pre-Vedic period) since tens of thousand of years which, is lacking even
currently in most parts of the world. Miracles as Lord Krishna, Rama have done
have been done in other part of the world as well but, their attribution and
interpretation is given differently. For example, Christ is considered son of
God while Hazrat Mahmood as messenger of God and the like.......

You may be astonished to know that not all living humans at Lord Krishna's time
were aware that Lord Krishna was incarnation of God!!! In fact only his parents
Deviki and Vasudev who have seen his Rupa and listened to HIM at the time of
birth or then later during Mahabharta Battle, Arjuna who only could see the
Virat-Swarupa on getting Devine eyes from Lord Krishna. To rest, Lord Krishna
has been just a ordinary powerful human with some extra ordinary powers! Of
course, it was however, Bhisham-Pitamaha, who was also aware of actuality.

Concluding, God does take Avtara only in India but takes Avtara anywhere
wherever the need is, in the whole of Universe what to speak of other parts of
the World! It would be more accurate to tell that whole universe just only a
part of God as Lord Krishna described in B-Gita Chapter 11, Last verse!

Narayana, Narayana!

(Kuldeep Kumar Kaul)

------------------------------------------------

You are right, Hindus thought of Krishna limited to the the then boundaries of
India beyond which they might not have much real knowledge. Yes, Krishna is all
in all in the Universe whether this is known to all mankind or not. But Krishna
is known by different names in different socities / lands: God whose son was
Jesus, Prophet's Allah and so on. Do not get confused by the name: human
civilisations across the World in deffirent periods were in search of Thatwhich
is all in all in the Universe and the Universe.
Basudeb Sen

----------------------------------------------

Our civilization and some others like egyptian are quite ancient.You can analyse
certain prayer practices in different religions and observe some similarity.Many
time it makes believe that those prayers are altered forms and devised to
convenience of sadhaks Avtars happened or not,we do observe His omnipresence in
variety of divine applications.The supreme concept of God as Krishna is full of
knowledge about his existence, is felt while we peruse Srimad Bhagwat Gita.His
Viraat swaroop speaks to us about the variety of forms He exists and can appear
from time to time.Although He cannot be explained by we humble humans yet we do
feel Him as and when we meditate with dedication.HE IS THE CAUSE OF ALL THAT
HAPPENS AND YET HE IS NOT INVOLVED IN HAPPENNINGS.And in kaliedoscope of these
happenings we may observe His myriad forms,views.
subhashtewari

-------------------------------------------------
Spiritual fragrance as is in India ? A country where baby girls are murdered and
adult girls are raped. Where human index is one of the lowest in the world. A
country where Rama threw out his pregnant wife. Ridiculous.
Kindly answer the charges or Unsubscribe.
Alok

--------------------------------------------------

Radhey ! Radhey !!

  There has been no Garvokti in Sachin's statement.  In fact, India is a divine
country. Country of Gods. In India lies the essence of all religions. Where else
God can take Avataar? Actually no sadhak is God however humble he may be and it
is not correct to presume that God has already reincarnated in the form of
Humble Saadhak in the country where he lives at present. Once that is certain,
where is objection to Sachin's statement? Else give reasons. Dont say God is
Omnipresent. That goes without saying.

Radhey ! Radhey !!

Nisha Chatterji

----------------------------------------------------

Dear Alok,



Your anger and frustration is quite perplexing. But your "charges" are to vague
and aimless though :(. You may want to articulate your expectations and
disappointments with more clarity and less emotions. If I am right, I see some
mix-up between social and spiritual responsibilities ...



Expecting any person or forum to be accountable for your understanding sounds a
bit lopsided to me. Don't you think so?! The anger and frustration is rooted in
you. You alone know what you feel by recalling RamayaNa or any other incident
heard or experienced. Therefore, you should "CHARGE" yourself upon your own
understanding for better clarity. That would be useful to you :).



On the other hand, your "charges" on others are like stones thrown into sky.
They can fall anywhere … like one that has landed in my hand. Most probably many
would fall on your own head! Your attitude spells that whoever has no
understanding in agreement to yours should be stupid. One, you have no idea what
others understand from RamayaNa or any other literature. Two, what authorizes
you to assume that the yardstick you are holding is the right one? Your
yardstick is so lopsided with bloated personal belief that it is utterly
incapable of measuring anyone else's viewpoint. Three, Do you think there can be
any yardstick at all? Can anything be measured as such?? Four, how could social
behavior be translated to generic principles and ambience of spirituality and
vice versa - have examined carefully? Disagreeing with any viewpoint is
perfectly fine. "Charging" others based on your personal beliefs and experiences
remains baseless. Expecting others to consider your utterances as "charges"
against them is also pointless; how are they accountable for your understanding
or misunderstanding?!



You may want to ponder on it further and articulate what exactly your objection
is. Make your objection objective so that others can learn from it as well as
respond. That would be useful for others, and again for you as well :).



Respects.



Naga Narayana.

---------------------------------------

Gandhar is in Afghanistan.

Durgesh Mankikar,MD

--------------------------------------------------

God incarnates everywhere, but recognized by indians.
Thats why we get Krishna and Rama in India, while other countries get the sons
and the messengers.

Its like only a person with eyesight can see light, not blind.
Its only a devotee who can recognize God, not an athiest.

regds,
rakesh

----------------------------------------------

to girish ji
ref ur ? about y reincarnation is only in india please remember that all
religons have different rules beliefs & interpretations 2 help people thru unity
of religon ; the object being so that people may bow down to god as that
attempts 2 remove the arrogance present in many of us so much so that EVEN THE
KING has to bow down to acknowledge the existance & power of god whose blessings
he seeks before going into battle.
just as all drops of water form riverluets streams rivers finally enetering the
ocean which water evaporates to again form to start the the cycle again which
leads us to believe in reincarnation.
however different religons are free to believe in whatever they think & we must
not think that hinduism is the most knowledgeable for we have learnt so much in
the fields of medicine,science increasinng our food production etc from the
western world whose development was was partly due to their religon
your greatese gift of the very fact that you asked ur question was given u by
the west because indians never questioned the meaning of AUM or the swastika nor
any belief or ritual that the pandits translated to them the meaning from
sanskrit
keep it up & question every thing till u r satisfied
henceforth i will call u GIR-ISH the LION
balbir singh
-------------------------------------------------
Punarjanma … Avataara … THE TRUTH …



Matter-energy clusters merge and separate perpetually only for one reason - TO
MAINTAIN EQUILLIBRIUM! There is no exception no matter how specific clusters are
identified as - soil, water, air, plants, animals, humans, planets, galaxies …
Everything is recycled to reform the universal appearance in order to preserve
its integral presence AS IS and AS EVER. Humans, having developed extraordinary
(and, unnecessary!) affinity to their specific forms, would claim some special
existence amongst the rest. But, humans are no more or less than any being or
thing in this universe ... all mortal beings, including the humans, are recycled
just like all these plants to be re-born in variant forms as dictated by the
nature around ... again and again ...



|| Sasyamiva pachyate martyah sasyamivaajaayate punah ||



One who is dictated by the limitations of one's intellect would get fascinated
by some particular pairs of such mergers and separations in order to define the
span of time and space bound between the two events as "a life". One who
dictates one's intellect with such limited perceptions would isolate such a span
from the rest to believe as if the span perceived is "the life" the associated
entity possessed. ONLY FROM THIS PERSPECTIVE birth and death do mean something.
So are their derivatives such as rebirth (Punarjanma) and re-incarnation
(Avataara).



The paradox in human appreciation of life is … they never appreciate the same
recycling process within the identified span of one's own life … but, claim
heavily how the fellow is subjected to recycling from "one" span or life to
"another" … Some take a helpless attitude that one will be recycled as per their
deeds (Karma) and some take a command to claim that one can dictate what one
would be in the next life. The helpless recycling is often called "re-birth" or
Punarjanma. The seemingly "voluntary" action to take a form is often called
"re-incarnation" or "Avataara".



Really speaking, all matter-energy clusters (Prajaah) are subjected perpetual
morphing (Yagnya) - apparently random in macroscopic or gross sense and very
specific in microscopic or elementary sense. No one can dictate The Yagnya.
Nobody could steer the gross changes in the world in any certain fashion - be it
death of a human body or its path beyond or a planet or anything else. At the
same time, nobody can change the elemental characteristics either - no one can
dictate Hydrogen to combine with Oxygen to make steel! The un-yielding
infinitude of elemental behavior seeks perpetual equilibrium amongst itself to
BE ... to just BE! Any meaning projected on Yagnya is just a wishful belief one
generates within one's perception!! Therefore, one can become anything as well
as nothing at all after death ...



Yonimanye prapadyante shareerattvaaya dehinah |

SthaaNumanye'nusanyanti yathaa karma yathaa shrutam ||



Therefore, if one insists, rebirth is real … it IS real as of NOW as EVER …
helpless recycling is all one can ride as long as the perception remains! If one
insists that God takes Avataara to sustain equilibrium in existence … it IS real
as of NOW and as EVER ... without such a force cycling through all the apparent
recycling, how can there be harmony across the diverse appearances the
matter-energy clusters morphs itself into?! How can any thing can remain
integral to whatever it IS without THAT??!!



If one transcends the limitations of one's intellect ... how can there be any
life isolated in this universe?! ... how can there be any disconnect between any
lives ever??!! ... HOW CAN THERE BE ANYTHING BUT THAT AS IS AND AS EVER???!!!
... Then ... how can there be any recycling at all? ... what is birth and what
is death?? … how can there be any re-birth or re-incarnation???



Does it matter who made the observations and how they were made?! TRUTH remains
AS IS and AS EVER irrespective of who perceives it and when, where and how IT is
perceived! Can Gravity be different because of Newton's interpretation; did the
apples start falling down differently??!! Can the matter-energy relation be
limited to whatever an Einstein says???!!! THE TRUTH REMAINS AS IS and AS EVER.
No one can dictate it in any way. When and where there was no recycling of
matter and energy? When and where there could be anything that sustains itself
without THAT?? How can there be any nows and thens, heres and theres, when ALL
remain THAT ALL-PERVASIVE TRUTH as IS and as EVER???



Please do not try to imagine some lines of boundaries in terms of space, time,
emotions, etc. in an attempt to limit THAT! Of course, NOTHING happens to THAT
... but, it would be a great loss for you though ...



Iha chedavedeetatha satyam (pratibodham amritam) asti na chedihaavedeen mahatee
vinashTih | Bhooteshu bhooteshu vichitya dheerah pretyaasmaallokaan amritaa
bhavanti ||



The wise ones realizing the ALL-INCLUSIVE PRESENCE of the ALL-EXCLUSIVE TRUTH
would erase the notional lines of separation and merger drawn within one's
imagination to BE THAT as IS and as EVER. It ought to be realized HERE and NOW.
Else, it is a great loss to one who doesn't. How can who fails to understand
something while alive (with all the faculties intact) as of now and here can
ever fathom the same after death (when all the faculties are also
disseminated)???!!! ...



Respects.



Naga Narayana.

----------------------------------------

Dear Gita-Talk member,

Reincarnations take place all over the globe. The
science is picking up data where ever it can find it
to prove it or disprove the concept of "karma and
reincarnation". The present trend supports the idea
of karma and reincarnation.

Good Luck! Bye!
Notesh Otes

-------------------------------------------





-----------------------------------------------


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Shree Hari.


>>>  worshipping the perishable, ever changing body,meditating on inert, and
forsaking the worship of the eternal, imperishable, divine, transcedental form
of God, not only results in a waste of our lives, but also causes a major deceit
and delusion in us.


Can this statement be clarified further? I know religious groups which engages
in worshiping perishable body of guru and claiming their guru to be best. Such
people also engage in bhajans. Outwardly, it may appear that they are helping us
in bhajan. How should one relate to them?




At His feet in service,
G B



-----------------------------------------------


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http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org (hindi)
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