I used this product:

http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?BrandID=25&SubcatID=26

under Atlas Code 83 Flex (plastic ties) and on top Woodland Scenics foam.
This was a test piece that was 9 feet long. Six months later I was able to
get under the track with a putty knife, and with a little careful effort, I
was able to remove the track from the foam.

I just flipped the track over, and was ably to roll the sealant off the
bottom of the ties revealing clean ties. It took some effort (hard rubbing)
but it will come off. You gotta work at it.

Here's a FAQ on the 3.0 sealant:

http://www.dap.com/3point0/faq.html

--Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: prandn [mailto:saltnpepper69@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 3:41 PM
To: handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [handlaidtrack] DAP, Cork & ME flex track - Any problems?

I think I have finally found the right DAP product:
DAP KWIK Seal Plus premium Kitchen & Bath Adhesive Caulk.  It comes in
white, biscuit & clear.

While reading the instructions, it appears that this product doesn't play
well with plastics.  I am under the impression that ME flex track ties are
of a plastic type composition.

So the question is:

Has anyone used the DAP with cork & ME flex track and had the DAP attack
either the cork or the ME flex track?

I have cross posted this to a couple other lists also in hopes of receiving
as many replies as possilbe.

Thanks for your time & help.

Loren Martell
Beaverton, OR




------------------------------------

You are enjoying the ramblings of the handlaidtrack group.


Yahoo! Groups Links

I have used DAP adhesive caulk to mount ME flex track on another layout
without any problems.  The plastic used in ME flex track is an acetal
copolymer (Delrin or Celcon) and are unaffected by common solvents.  I
believe Atlas also uses a polyacetal.  The tie strips from Central Valley
are polystyrene and they will be damaged by these solvents.



Earl Hackett

Modeling the C&O in 1952

   _____

From: handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com [mailto:handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of prandn
Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 4:41 PM
To: handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [handlaidtrack] DAP, Cork & ME flex track - Any problems?





I think I have finally found the right DAP product:
DAP KWIK Seal Plus premium Kitchen & Bath Adhesive Caulk. It comes in white,
biscuit & clear.



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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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03:22:00




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think I have finally found the right DAP product:
DAP KWIK Seal Plus premium Kitchen & Bath Adhesive Caulk.  It comes in white,
biscuit & clear.

While reading the instructions, it appears that this product doesn't play well
with plastics.  I am under the impression that ME flex track ties are of a
plastic type composition.

So the question is:

Has anyone used the DAP with cork & ME flex track and had the DAP attack either
the cork or the ME flex track?

I have cross posted this to a couple other lists also in hopes of receiving as
many replies as possilbe.

Thanks for your time & help.

Loren Martell
Beaverton, OR

Atlas also sells a product called Conductalube that I've used for a while and
can recommend.



Roy

> To: handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com
> From: hacketet@...
> Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 09:27:48 -0500
> Subject: RE: [handlaidtrack] Re: Tie Stain w/o Oil or Wax
>
> LPS #1 is a lubricant commonly used for electrical contacts. I use tiny
> amounts of it on my railheads to eliminate track cleaning, much like some
> use Wahl Clipper Oil. It's my understanding that Wahl Clipper oil works
> well, but I just feel better using a product that is intended to maintaining
> good electrical contact.
>
>
>
> Earl Hackett
>
> Modeling the C&O in 1952
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.124/2596 - Release Date: 01/01/10
> 04:20:00
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> You are enjoying the ramblings of the handlaidtrack group.
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ed, May I suggest a timplate with a 30 dreegre slope. From looking at my track
and right of way standards for the B&O Railroad the slope apiears to be about 30
dreegres. I have a picture of that chart over in the photos scetion of layout
design sig. if you want to have a look.
L. Lee Davis




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

LPS #1 is a lubricant commonly used for electrical contacts.  I use tiny
amounts of it on my railheads to eliminate track cleaning, much like some
use Wahl Clipper Oil.  It's my understanding that Wahl Clipper oil works
well, but I just feel better using a product that is intended to maintaining
good electrical contact.



Earl Hackett

Modeling the C&O in 1952



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04:20:00




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It is similar to, but is NOT, WD-40.

In this case you could probably get away with WD-40. I would test it first.

--Jon

-----Original Message-----
From: ekelly18@... [mailto:ekelly18@...]
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 8:13 PM
To: handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [handlaidtrack] Re: Tie Stain w/o Oil or Wax

Earl,
What is LPS #1 lubricant?
Thanks,
Ed Kelly




--- In handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com, "Earl Hackett" <hacketet@...> wrote:
>
> I've only had one experience with sticking points, but it was all 12
> of 'em in a double slip.  I just gave them a squirt of some LPS #1
> lubricant, pushed them back and forth a couple of times and the problem
was solved.
>
>
>
> Earl Hackett
>
> Modeling the C&O in 1952
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.123/2595 - Release Date:
> 12/31/09 03:52:00
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




------------------------------------

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Yahoo! Groups Links

When I glued (*using epoxy) the turnouts to the wood ties  I coated very
lightly the bottom of the points with oil. Then I placed the turnout on the tie
base and clamped them down overnight.  Never had a sticky problem.

   Note:
  1.  I use minwax dark walnut (for mainline ties its quite heavy) you must let
these dry thoroughly.
  2.  While constructing and shaping the points (the movable section) I put a
slight bevel on the underside (bottom of rail) so the when the rail slides over
the ties they don't scrape or gouge the wood ties. This helps alot.
  3.  Using tie plates on the turnouts will help reduce the sticky problem
because they will raise the rail over the tie surface about the thickness of the
etched metal.   I imagine narrow gauge railroads probably had the same problem
because they didn't use tie plates (a generalization of course)on their track.
  4.  All rail is weathered after soldering and before clamping down on the wood
ties.   This eliminates the problem with getting the weathering on the ties,   a
light weathering (rust) is then dusted on the rail/tie interface to represent
the rust off the rail/tie plates.

Rob

Earl,
What is LPS #1 lubricant?
Thanks,
Ed Kelly




--- In handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com, "Earl Hackett" <hacketet@...> wrote:
>
> I've only had one experience with sticking points, but it was all 12 of 'em
> in a double slip.  I just gave them a squirt of some LPS #1 lubricant,
> pushed them back and forth a couple of times and the problem was solved.
>
>
>
> Earl Hackett
>
> Modeling the C&O in 1952
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.123/2595 - Release Date: 12/31/09
> 03:52:00
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I've only had one experience with sticking points, but it was all 12 of 'em
in a double slip.  I just gave them a squirt of some LPS #1 lubricant,
pushed them back and forth a couple of times and the problem was solved.



Earl Hackett

Modeling the C&O in 1952



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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.123/2595 - Release Date: 12/31/09
03:52:00




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Ed,

   > Now comes the question of the slope of the ballast.

The angle of repose for stone ballast will be between about 1:2
and 1:1.5, that's between about 26 degrees and 34 degrees from
the horizontal. Say 30 degrees as a good general slope, so not as
steep as you might think.

Some diagrams here:

  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=312388#p312388

regards,

Martin.

Hi All,
My ties are drying from the application of the Minwax Dark Walnut.  Now comes
the question of the slope of the ballast. Should I use 45 degrees or 60 degrees
or some other angle?  I will be making a template for shaping the ballast with
notches for the rails so I can slide it over the rails and shape the ballast to
the desired slope.
Any suggestions for the "desired" slope?
Thanks,
Ed Kelly

Hi,
If the points stick, remove the points then use some 220 grit sandpaper (very
fine) and sand lightly, very lightly.  To add some color back to the ties, use a
brown Sharpie.  The ink or stain or whatever is in it won't raise the grain or
add any thickness to the tie.

Since I started this thread, I want to thank everyone for their input.  I also
started the thread regarding Elmer's yellow carpenter's glue. Thanks to these
people too.

My decision was to switch to Titebond II which claims to be "weatherproof with
excellent water-resistance".  I also decided on Minwax Dark Walnut, #2716.  I
follow directions and wipe it off after 15 minutes.  If I have a problem of
points sticking, I will follow my own advice mentioned above because it worked
for me before.

Thanks again to all who offered their knowledge.

Regards,
Ed Kelly




--- In handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Wynne" <groups@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Davo,
>
>    > I've been told by an old hand, that the oil based stains
>    > will cause turnout points to stick.
>
> The turnout points don't slide directly on the timbers. They slide
> above the timbers on the tie plates or baseplates or slide chairs.
> If the timbers are stained before construction, there shouldn't be
> any problem with points sticking, as they won't touch the actual timber.
>
> regards,
>
> Martin.
>

Hi Davo,

    > I've been told by an old hand, that the oil based stains
    > will cause turnout points to stick.

The turnout points don't slide directly on the timbers. They slide
above the timbers on the tie plates or baseplates or slide chairs.
If the timbers are stained before construction, there shouldn't be
any problem with points sticking, as they won't touch the actual timber.

regards,

Martin.

Steve,

I've been told by an old hand, that the oil based stains will cause turnout
points to stick. For that reason I use shoe dye cut with alcohol.

Davo in Orlando

-----Original Message-----

1a. Re: Tie Stain w/o Oil or Wax
     Posted by: "Stephen Bartlett" tower.op@... notsold
     Date: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:58 am ((PST))

Fred,

I don't remember the reason given a few weeks ago for wanting to avoid
oil based stains.

Hey Fred!

I am in Houston, where are you?

--Jon



-----Original Message-----
From: fred_swain [mailto:fred_swain@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 9:08 AM
To: handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [handlaidtrack] Re: Tie Stain w/o Oil or Wax

I use standard Minwax Stain in either early american or dark walnut
depending on what type of track I'm modelling. For rarely used sidings, I'll
use the lighter early american as it shows dried out ties. I'll also really
rought them up with a rasp to show age. For mainlines I'll use the dark
walnut stain. If it isn't dark enough, I'll go over it again. After it is
down, some weathering makes it quite believable.

Most track out there, at least here in south Texas, doesn't have really dark
ties. They just don't stay very dark for very long and quickly turn a nice
shade of brown. Rust from tie plates and spikes lightens them up too. I have
tried the tie and bridge stain from Micromark which gives the ties a gray
color. To me this isn't very realistic although it does look good on fences
and piers. Sometimes the ties have to soak for a long time before they get
decently dark. Other times they don't. It depends on the tie. This product
causes the ties to swell enough that they don't fit into my tie jigs anymore
where they do with standard stain.

Fred

--- In handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Bartlett <tower.op@...> wrote:
>
> Fred,
>
> I don't remember the reason given a few weeks ago for wanting to avoid
> oil based stains.
>
> Years ago I tried a couple of wood stains, as well as real creosote.
> None of them soaked into the wood enough to give me the dark color I
> wanted, so I used Rit dye.
> It worked well, and I even mixed a brown and gray together to get a
> more weathered color.
>
> It was years later that someone mentioned that Rit contains salt,
> which causes rusting of steel spikes and rail.  I also found that it
> made the ties slightly electrically conductive, especially in high
humidity.
> This does not cause short circuits per se, so won't noticably affect
> train running, but can cause false occupancy with current type signal
> detection circuits.
>
> Steve Bartlett
>
> fred swain wrote:
>
> I'm pretty late to this topic and it seems never ending. What was the
> original reasoning behind not wanting an oil or wax based stain? Is it
> a corrosion issue?
>
> Fred
>




------------------------------------

You are enjoying the ramblings of the handlaidtrack group.


Yahoo! Groups Links

That's all I use.  The cost of these 'art' products is obscene.  The talc in
the flat version is pretty big and settles out after diluting it 4:1.  I now
use the satin finish.



Earl Hackett

Modeling the C&O in 1952

   _____

From: handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com [mailto:handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Rob Kirkham
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 2:01 PM
To: handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [handlaidtrack] Matt Medium from Michaels??





Claude - I've used "deep tint base" latex paint (without any tint, etc). I
can't recall if flat, egg shell, etc. were options. They look at you funny,
but it works for what I did (crating transparent tints for ground cover).
I'm uncertain how it would work for track/ballast.

Rob Kirkham



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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.123/2592 - Release Date: 12/29/09
02:47:00




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I use the Modge Podge.  It's great stuff.



Ken the guy from AR



   _____

From: handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com [mailto:handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Quesnelle, Claude
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 12:35 PM
To: handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [handlaidtrack] Matt Medium from Michaels??





Victor,

You mentioned you used Matte Medium from Michaels. I went through there a
couple days ago looking for that, but all I found was some Modge Podge for
paper. I had a bottle of Liquitex from a few years ago when I was in Canada,
but haven't found any here in the US yet. What brand/product from Michaels
did you use? Any other sources? I've heard that people used latex paint (un
tinted) instead. Do you or anyone else have experience with this? I keep
walking through Home Depot and Lowes looking at their paints trying to
figure out which would work in place of Matte Medium.

Thanks for any info.

Claude

>
>Hi Ed,
>I would not be concerned, as the ELmer's yellow carpenter's glue was
>never waterproof, but somewhat water resistant. I also used this for
>gluing the ties to cork for my wooden ties on my handlaid track. If you
>use Matte Medium (clear, not white) from Michaels or AC Moore, when
>ballasting and thinning with a water/alcohol solution (50/50). there
>will be very little water getting to the ties. Also, the Matte Medium
>is very water resistant, but is also pliable, so it has very good sound
>deadening features. In other words, don't use white glue and water to
>lay your ballast.
>
>Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris
>Raleigh, NC

This message (including any attachments) may contain confidential,
proprietary, privileged and/or private information. The information is
intended to be for the use of the individual or entity designated above. If
you are not the intended recipient of this message, please notify the sender
immediately, and delete the message and any attachments. Any disclosure,
reproduction, distribution or other use of this message or any attachments
by an individual or entity other than the intended recipient is prohibited.



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.123/2592 - Release Date: 12/29/09
01:47:00




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Claude - I've used "deep tint base" latex paint (without any tint, etc).  I
can't recall if flat, egg shell, etc. were options.  They look at you funny, but
it works for what I did (crating transparent tints for ground cover).  I'm
uncertain how it would work for track/ballast.

Rob Kirkham


From: Quesnelle, Claude
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 10:34 AM
To: handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [handlaidtrack] Matt Medium from Michaels??



Victor,

You mentioned you used Matte Medium from Michaels. I went through there a couple
days ago looking for that, but all I found was some Modge Podge for paper. I had
a bottle of Liquitex from a few years ago when I was in Canada, but haven't
found any here in the US yet. What brand/product from Michaels did you use? Any
other sources? I've heard that people used latex paint (un tinted) instead. Do
you or anyone else have experience with this? I keep walking through Home Depot
and Lowes looking at their paints trying to figure out which would work in place
of Matte Medium.

Thanks for any info.

Claude

>
>Hi Ed,
>I would not be concerned, as the ELmer's yellow carpenter's glue was
>never waterproof, but somewhat water resistant. I also used this for
>gluing the ties to cork for my wooden ties on my handlaid track. If you
>use Matte Medium (clear, not white) from Michaels or AC Moore, when
>ballasting and thinning with a water/alcohol solution (50/50). there
>will be very little water getting to the ties. Also, the Matte Medium
>is very water resistant, but is also pliable, so it has very good sound
>deadening features. In other words, don't use white glue and water to
>lay your ballast.
>
>Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris
>Raleigh, NC

This message (including any attachments) may contain confidential, proprietary,
privileged and/or private information. The information is intended to be for the
use of the individual or entity designated above. If you are not the intended
recipient of this message, please notify the sender immediately, and delete the
message and any attachments. Any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other
use of this message or any attachments by an individual or entity other than the
intended recipient is prohibited.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi again Ed,
I have used Mod Podge Matte Medium, but the Liquitex in a larger bottle is
cheaper.  I believe I bought it at AC Moore, but I also go to Michael's, so I am
not exactly sure where I purchased it. The Liquitex is the way to go if you have
easy access to buying it.  I haven't considered using untinted latex paint, I
wonder if that would work also?

Vic Bitleris
Raleigh, NC



To: handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com
From: brossard77@...
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:34:49 -0500
Subject: [handlaidtrack] Matt Medium from Michaels??




























       Victor,



You mentioned you used Matte Medium from Michaels.  I went through there a
couple days ago looking for that, but all I found was some Modge Podge for
paper.  I had a bottle of Liquitex from a few years ago when I was in Canada,
but haven't found any here in the US yet.  What brand/product from Michaels did
you use?  Any other sources?  I've heard that people used latex paint (un
tinted) instead.  Do you or anyone else have experience with this?  I keep
walking through Home Depot and Lowes looking at their paints trying to figure
out which would work in place of Matte Medium.



Thanks for any info.



Claude



>

>Hi Ed,

>I would not be concerned, as the ELmer's yellow carpenter's glue was

>never waterproof, but somewhat water resistant.  I also used this for

>gluing the ties to cork for my wooden ties on my handlaid track.  If you

>use Matte Medium (clear, not white) from Michaels or AC Moore, when

>ballasting and thinning with a water/alcohol solution (50/50). there

>will be very little water getting to the ties.  Also, the Matte Medium

>is very water resistant, but is also pliable, so it has very good sound

>deadening features.  In other words, don't use white glue and water to

>lay your ballast.

>

>Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris

>Raleigh, NC



This message (including any attachments) may contain confidential, proprietary,
privileged and/or private information.  The information is intended to be for
the use of the individual or entity designated above.  If you are not the
intended recipient of this message, please notify the sender immediately, and
delete the message and any attachments.  Any disclosure, reproduction,
distribution or other use of this message or any attachments by an individual or
entity other than the intended recipient is prohibited.
















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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Victor,

You mentioned you used Matte Medium from Michaels.  I went through there a
couple days ago looking for that, but all I found was some Modge Podge for
paper.  I had a bottle of Liquitex from a few years ago when I was in Canada,
but haven't found any here in the US yet.  What brand/product from Michaels did
you use?  Any other sources?  I've heard that people used latex paint (un
tinted) instead.  Do you or anyone else have experience with this?  I keep
walking through Home Depot and Lowes looking at their paints trying to figure
out which would work in place of Matte Medium.

Thanks for any info.

Claude

>
>Hi Ed,
>I would not be concerned, as the ELmer's yellow carpenter's glue was
>never waterproof, but somewhat water resistant.  I also used this for
>gluing the ties to cork for my wooden ties on my handlaid track.  If you
>use Matte Medium (clear, not white) from Michaels or AC Moore, when
>ballasting and thinning with a water/alcohol solution (50/50). there
>will be very little water getting to the ties.  Also, the Matte Medium
>is very water resistant, but is also pliable, so it has very good sound
>deadening features.  In other words, don't use white glue and water to
>lay your ballast.
>
>Good luck and regards, Vic Bitleris
>Raleigh, NC


This message (including any attachments) may contain confidential, proprietary,
privileged and/or private information.  The information is intended to be for
the use of the individual or entity designated above.  If you are not the
intended recipient of this message, please notify the sender immediately, and
delete the message and any attachments.  Any disclosure, reproduction,
distribution or other use of this message or any attachments by an individual or
entity other than the intended recipient is prohibited.

I use standard Minwax Stain in either early american or dark walnut depending on
what type of track I'm modelling. For rarely used sidings, I'll use the lighter
early american as it shows dried out ties. I'll also really rought them up with
a rasp to show age. For mainlines I'll use the dark walnut stain. If it isn't
dark enough, I'll go over it again. After it is down, some weathering makes it
quite believable.

Most track out there, at least here in south Texas, doesn't have really dark
ties. They just don't stay very dark for very long and quickly turn a nice shade
of brown. Rust from tie plates and spikes lightens them up too. I have tried the
tie and bridge stain from Micromark which gives the ties a gray color. To me
this isn't very realistic although it does look good on fences and piers.
Sometimes the ties have to soak for a long time before they get decently dark.
Other times they don't. It depends on the tie. This product causes the ties to
swell enough that they don't fit into my tie jigs anymore where they do with
standard stain.

Fred

--- In handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Bartlett <tower.op@...> wrote:
>
> Fred,
>
> I don't remember the reason given a few weeks ago for wanting to avoid
> oil based stains.
>
> Years ago I tried a couple of wood stains, as well as real creosote.
> None of them soaked into the wood enough to give me the dark color I
> wanted, so I used Rit dye.
> It worked well, and I even mixed a brown and gray together to get a more
> weathered color.
>
> It was years later that someone mentioned that Rit contains salt, which
> causes rusting of steel spikes and rail.  I also found that it made the
> ties slightly electrically conductive, especially in high humidity.
> This does not cause short circuits per se, so won't noticably affect
> train running, but can cause false occupancy with current type signal
> detection circuits.
>
> Steve Bartlett
>
> fred swain wrote:
>
> I'm pretty late to this topic and it seems never ending. What was the
> original reasoning behind not wanting an oil or wax based
> stain? Is it a corrosion issue?
>
> Fred
>

Fred,

I don't remember the reason given a few weeks ago for wanting to avoid
oil based stains.

Years ago I tried a couple of wood stains, as well as real creosote.
None of them soaked into the wood enough to give me the dark color I
wanted, so I used Rit dye.
It worked well, and I even mixed a brown and gray together to get a more
weathered color.

It was years later that someone mentioned that Rit contains salt, which
causes rusting of steel spikes and rail.  I also found that it made the
ties slightly electrically conductive, especially in high humidity.
This does not cause short circuits per se, so won't noticably affect
train running, but can cause false occupancy with current type signal
detection circuits.

Steve Bartlett

fred swain wrote:

I'm pretty late to this topic and it seems never ending. What was the
original reasoning behind not wanting an oil or wax based
stain? Is it a corrosion issue?

Fred

All of Elmer's products are crap now. Their white glue is more like
thinned-out caulking.

--Jon


-----Original Message-----
From: Earl Hackett [mailto:hacketet@...]
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 10:18 AM
To: handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [handlaidtrack] Trouble with Glue Softening and Ties Moving
During Ballasting?

I used Elmer's Yellow Carpenter's glue for years.  It was never truly water
resistant.   I never had a problem until about a year ago.  The new stuff
was much thinner and would not hold to vertical surfaces like the old stuff
did.  I still used it without problem for gluing ties.  However, since I
spike the rails down through to the sub roadbed before ballasting, I
wouldn't know if it softened or not.   I've since switched to Titebond glue.



Earl Hackett

Modeling the C&O in 1952

   _____

From: handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com [mailto:handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of ekelly18@...
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 9:23 AM
To: handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [handlaidtrack] Trouble with Glue Softening and Ties Moving During
Ballasting?





Hi All,
I have been using Elmer's Yellow Carpenter's Glue to glue down my ties
thinking that it was water resistant. The original gallon that I purchased
said it was. The current gallon does not.

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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04:18:00




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

You are enjoying the ramblings of the handlaidtrack group.


Yahoo! Groups Links

I use Elmer's Glue All give it a try it might work for you.



Ken the guy from AR



   _____

From: handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com [mailto:handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of ekelly18@...
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 6:05 PM
To: handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [handlaidtrack] Re: Trouble with Glue Softening and Ties Moving
During Ballasting?





Ken,
The glue softened and became gummy in about 20 minutes.
Regards,
Ed

--- In handlaidtrack@ <mailto:handlaidtrack%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, "Ken Burney" <wkburney@...> wrote:
>
> I use white glue for putting the ties down and matt medium for gluing the
> ballast and have never had a problem with the ties coming up. I think you
> would have to soak the area for days to really make the glue turn loose.
>
>
>
> My 2 cents
>
> Ken the guy from AR
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: handlaidtrack@ <mailto:handlaidtrack%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com [mailto:handlaidtrack@
<mailto:handlaidtrack%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of ekelly18@...
> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 8:23 AM
> To: handlaidtrack@ <mailto:handlaidtrack%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [handlaidtrack] Trouble with Glue Softening and Ties Moving
During
> Ballasting?
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi All,
> I have been using Elmer's Yellow Carpenter's Glue to glue down my ties
> thinking that it was water resistant. The original gallon that I purchased
> said it was. The current gallon does not.
> I had occasion to pour a couple of teaspoons of water into a container
with
> dried Elmer's Yellow Carpenter's Glue and it softened immediately. Now I
am
> worried that the glue under my ties will soften and lose their grip when I
> ballast and flood the ties with a white glue and water mix. My plan had
been
> to use the yellow carpenter's glue, which was supposed to be water
> resistant, to glue the ties and to use white glue to ballast thinking that
> the yellow glue and my ties would not budge during the ballasting process.
> Has anyone had any problems with the glue under the ties softening and the
> ties moving when you ballast the track?
> I am thinking of changing to Titebond II or Titebond III for my next batch
> of tie laying.
> Any comments would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Ed Kelly
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.122/2590 - Release Date:
12/28/09
> 01:16:00
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.122/2590 - Release Date: 12/28/09
01:16:00




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ken,
The glue softened and became gummy in about 20 minutes.
Regards,
Ed



--- In handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Burney" <wkburney@...> wrote:
>
> I use white glue for putting the ties down and matt medium for gluing the
> ballast and have never had a problem with the ties coming up.  I think you
> would have to soak the area for days to really make the glue turn loose.
>
>
>
> My 2 cents
>
> Ken the guy from AR
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com [mailto:handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of ekelly18@...
> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 8:23 AM
> To: handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [handlaidtrack] Trouble with Glue Softening and Ties Moving During
> Ballasting?
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi All,
> I have been using Elmer's Yellow Carpenter's Glue to glue down my ties
> thinking that it was water resistant. The original gallon that I purchased
> said it was. The current gallon does not.
> I had occasion to pour a couple of teaspoons of water into a container with
> dried Elmer's Yellow Carpenter's Glue and it softened immediately. Now I am
> worried that the glue under my ties will soften and lose their grip when I
> ballast and flood the ties with a white glue and water mix. My plan had been
> to use the yellow carpenter's glue, which was supposed to be water
> resistant, to glue the ties and to use white glue to ballast thinking that
> the yellow glue and my ties would not budge during the ballasting process.
> Has anyone had any problems with the glue under the ties softening and the
> ties moving when you ballast the track?
> I am thinking of changing to Titebond II or Titebond III for my next batch
> of tie laying.
> Any comments would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Ed Kelly
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.122/2590 - Release Date: 12/28/09
> 01:16:00
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I'm pretty late to this topic and it seems never ending. What was the original
reasoning behind not wanting an oil or wax based stain? Is it a corrosion issue?

Fred

--- In handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com, "Mel" <trainguy11@...> wrote:
>
> When I to used Fiebing's stain for the first time it was a water based touch
up dye for shoes .
>
> I was cautious at first but a neat thing happened ,  when I ballasted which I
do before I lay rail a little of the stain was rubbed off and when I applied the
glue which is Elmer's and water more of the stain seamed to come off .  WHA LA 
instant weathering.
>
>
> "I know exactly what I think I am talking about"
>
> Mel the trainguy
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I use white glue for putting the ties down and matt medium for gluing the
ballast and have never had a problem with the ties coming up.  I think you
would have to soak the area for days to really make the glue turn loose.



My 2 cents

Ken the guy from AR



   _____

From: handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com [mailto:handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of ekelly18@...
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 8:23 AM
To: handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [handlaidtrack] Trouble with Glue Softening and Ties Moving During
Ballasting?





Hi All,
I have been using Elmer's Yellow Carpenter's Glue to glue down my ties
thinking that it was water resistant. The original gallon that I purchased
said it was. The current gallon does not.
I had occasion to pour a couple of teaspoons of water into a container with
dried Elmer's Yellow Carpenter's Glue and it softened immediately. Now I am
worried that the glue under my ties will soften and lose their grip when I
ballast and flood the ties with a white glue and water mix. My plan had been
to use the yellow carpenter's glue, which was supposed to be water
resistant, to glue the ties and to use white glue to ballast thinking that
the yellow glue and my ties would not budge during the ballasting process.
Has anyone had any problems with the glue under the ties softening and the
ties moving when you ballast the track?
I am thinking of changing to Titebond II or Titebond III for my next batch
of tie laying.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Ed Kelly



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.122/2590 - Release Date: 12/28/09
01:16:00




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Titebond yellow carpenter's glue, similar to the Elmer's yellow glue.  I
tried their waterproof glue and didn't notice any difference in performance
- just the cost.



Earl Hackett

Modeling the C&O in 1952

   _____

From: handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com [mailto:handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of ekelly18@...
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 1:17 PM
To: handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [handlaidtrack] Re: Trouble with Glue Softening and Ties Moving
During Ballasting?





Hi Earl,
Thanks. Which Titebond? There are several.
Regards,
Ed

--- In handlaidtrack@ <mailto:handlaidtrack%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, "Earl Hackett" <hacketet@...> wrote:
>
> I used Elmer's Yellow Carpenter's glue for years. It was never truly water
> resistant. I never had a problem until about a year ago. The new stuff
> was much thinner and would not hold to vertical surfaces like the old
stuff
> did. I still used it without problem for gluing ties. However, since I
> spike the rails down through to the sub roadbed before ballasting, I
> wouldn't know if it softened or not. I've since switched to Titebond glue.
>
>
>
> Earl Hackett
>
> Modeling the C&O in 1952
>
> _____
>
> From: handlaidtrack@ <mailto:handlaidtrack%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com [mailto:handlaidtrack@
<mailto:handlaidtrack%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of ekelly18@...
> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 9:23 AM
> To: handlaidtrack@ <mailto:handlaidtrack%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [handlaidtrack] Trouble with Glue Softening and Ties Moving
During
> Ballasting?
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi All,
> I have been using Elmer's Yellow Carpenter's Glue to glue down my ties
> thinking that it was water resistant. The original gallon that I purchased
> said it was. The current gallon does not.
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.121/2589 - Release Date:
12/27/09
> 04:18:00
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.121/2589 - Release Date: 12/28/09
02:16:00




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Unless there's something pushing your ties during your ballasting process they
aren't going anywhere regardless.  The glue just needs to keep the ties in place
while you push around the ballast, once the ballast is wet it's going to hold
those ties pretty well until everything is dry.



Roy

> To: handlaidtrack@yahoogroups.com
> From: ekelly18@...
> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 14:23:25 +0000
> Subject: [handlaidtrack] Trouble with Glue Softening and Ties Moving During
Ballasting?
>
> Hi All,
> I have been using Elmer's Yellow Carpenter's Glue to glue down my ties
thinking that it was water resistant. The original gallon that I purchased said
it was. The current gallon does not.
> I had occasion to pour a couple of teaspoons of water into a container with
dried Elmer's Yellow Carpenter's Glue and it softened immediately. Now I am
worried that the glue under my ties will soften and lose their grip when I
ballast and flood the ties with a white glue and water mix. My plan had been to
use the yellow carpenter's glue, which was supposed to be water resistant, to
glue the ties and to use white glue to ballast thinking that the yellow glue and
my ties would not budge during the ballasting process.
> Has anyone had any problems with the glue under the ties softening and the
ties moving when you ballast the track?
> I am thinking of changing to Titebond II or Titebond III for my next batch of
tie laying.
> Any comments would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Ed Kelly
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> You are enjoying the ramblings of the handlaidtrack group.
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]