Cmon Dragano.. you _know_ you wanted to!

 

Maeryk

(sorry if that was tactless.. I was mainly trying to be humorous)

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Dragano Abbruciati

To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 10:38 AM

Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] triangle stool

*Whew*  Glad I didn't go there!

 

What my (apparently tactless) collegue is trying to say is that medieval furnishing were most usually made to fit the intended owner.  The breadth, height, and construction of your stool will be dependent upon your own size and shape.  Make it comfortable for you.

 

Dragano

maeryk <maeryk@...> wrote:

Umm.. how to put this delicately.. how wide is your butt?

I'd go from there.

Maeryk

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Roberts" <croberts85us@...>
To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 8:36 PM
Subject: [MedievalSawdust] triangle stool


> Hey this is Chris Roberts from Manteo NC.  I was wondering if anyone
> has made a triangle stool?  I have been using the directions by
> thomas rettie on his web site to make my first stool.  In his
> directions i find no measurement for the horizontal rails.  How wide
> are these stools supposed to be? Thomas mentions the diameter of the
> pieces and the length of the tenon but not the total length of the
> stool.
>
> Any help is appreciated,
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>



<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/

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The stool thread has got me thinking about something I saw a while back
on TV....

Has anyone ever seen a tool you can chuck in you lathe to make round
tenons of a specific size?  Kinda works like a pencil sharpener, but
you hold the wood and the cutter goes around.  It was used by a guy who
made windsor chairs.  Anyone know what it's called and/or who sells
something like that?

Thanks,
Ulrich




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Lee Valley make a couple of different round tennon cutters, but they are
for use in a hand held electric drill or with a brace & bit. Using
something like this in a powered lathe is an invite for it to pick you up
and mop the workshop with your body! Really! At least if it jams in a hand
drill you just let go & maybe get a rap on the knuckles.

There was a discussion on this a while ago - I think it was in the
Australian "Woodwork Forums" - the operator only had to patch a hole in the
roof IIRC as he let go in time :-0 He was using an 'old' tennon cutter
intended for hand use to cut tennons on wheel spokes with a brace & bit setup.

regards
Brusi

At 11:25 PM 7/1/04, you wrote:

>The stool thread has got me thinking about something I saw a while back
>on TV....
>
>Has anyone ever seen a tool you can chuck in you lathe to make round
>tenons of a specific size?  Kinda works like a pencil sharpener, but
>you hold the wood and the cutter goes around.  It was used by a guy who
>made windsor chairs.  Anyone know what it's called and/or who sells
>something like that?
>
>Thanks,
>Ulrich

> The tool is called a stail engine or rounder plane

Thanks for the tip.  I've seen rounder planes, but all were hand
cranked.

> Of course these solutions assume that the tenon is the same size as
> the rail, producing straight grained round cross sections.

Here in Ohio, we call that a dowel.  ;)

Ulrich




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> Has anyone ever seen a tool you can chuck in you lathe to make round
> tenons of a specific size? Kinda works like a pencil sharpener, but
> you hold the wood and the cutter goes around. It was used by a guy who
> made windsor chairs. Anyone know what it's called and/or who sells
> something like that?

Don't know about lathes, but Lee Valley sells "tenon cutters" for drills:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=42299&category=1,180,42288,45539&ccurrency=1&SID=

Woodcraft carries them as well, so you could see them in a store.

I think the old "hollow augers", for use in a bit brace, would do the same thing.

A cheaper alternative, for use by hand, is a dowel rounder:

http://www.japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?dept_id=11880

http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2734

I have a couple of these which work OK.   An old "rounder plane" is essentially the same thing if you can find one.

Glenn McDavid
gmcdavid@...
http://www.winternet.com/~gmcdavid

> None of these solutions would work on a lathe safely... Brusi
> is quite right. Unless of course you could REALLY slow
> your lathe down, and even then, I wouldn't

FWIW. http://www.crafts32.fsnet.co.uk/products_rotary_planes.htm claims that their product can be used on a slow lathe.  However, I have not seen it, or any independent review.

Glenn McDavid
gmcdavid@...
http://www.winternet.com/~gmcdavid

The one thing I have completed satisfactorily in my brand-new avocation: a
triangle stool. General advice:

1.) Don't skimp on the hardness or the diameter of the legs; no less than 2
inches, if you ask me. The depth of the round mortices for the horizontal pieces
is the only source of lateral stability (fighting against sway and what I can
only describe as corkscrewing: you attempt a swivel, and the poor joints bend to
allow it; next thing you know, CRUNCH).

2.) If you still have instability (like I did, because I didn't drill the
mortices deep enough or whittle the tenons long enough), try this: you know the
two little vertical rails between the legs (total six)? Instead of making them
vertical, move the top holes together slightly and the bottom holes apart
slightly, and situate those rails slightly towards an A frame, such as you'd see
in a span of a radio tower. This is likely to pull the piece out of period, but
it makes the stool rock-solid.

Reijnier VerPlanck.

Harbor Freight sells them, as do the upscale woodworking supply catalogs.

They suggest you use them for making "rustic log furniture".. theres
actually a couple of variants.. most of the ones I have seen are designed
for hand drills.

You can also make your own.. its basically an easier version of a
threadbox.. Underhill shows how to make one in one of the books, I believe.

Maeryk

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Hayes" <von_landstuhl@...>
To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 9:25 AM
Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Tool for round tenons?


>
> The stool thread has got me thinking about something I saw a while back
> on TV....
>
> Has anyone ever seen a tool you can chuck in you lathe to make round
> tenons of a specific size?  Kinda works like a pencil sharpener, but
> you hold the wood and the cutter goes around.  It was used by a guy who
> made windsor chairs.  Anyone know what it's called and/or who sells
> something like that?
>
> Thanks,
> Ulrich
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: James Winkler

To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 5:07 PM

Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Tool for round tenons?

Of course..  one way to point dowels on a lathe is to buy a fairly expensive 'pattern follower'...  or copy set.  You could make consistant round tenons that way...  expensive... by consistant...  then again... ya' could learn to turn REALLY WELL...

 

Chas.

----- Original Message -----

From: Joseph Hayes

To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 9:17 AM

Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Tool for round tenons?

> The tool is called a stail engine or rounder plane

Thanks for the tip.  I've seen rounder planes, but all were hand
cranked.

> Of course these solutions assume that the tenon is the same size as
> the rail, producing straight grained round cross sections.

Here in Ohio, we call that a dowel.  ;)

Ulrich



           
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From: Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart

To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com

Sent: 6/30/2004 5:30:26 PM

Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] triangle stool

> "Masterpieces: Making Furniture From Paintings."
>
> Ulrich
>

Neat book!

Got one myself from a friend ( he paid $3 for it )

=====
Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
Seneschal, Barony of Fenix

   Aude Aliquid Dignum
     ' Dare Something Worthy '


           

Of course..  one way to point dowels on a lathe is to buy a fairly expensive 'pattern follower'...  or copy set.  You could make consistant round tenons that way...  expensive... by consistant...  then again... ya' could learn to turn REALLY WELL...

 

Chas.

----- Original Message -----

From: Joseph Hayes

To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 9:17 AM

Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Tool for round tenons?

> The tool is called a stail engine or rounder plane

Thanks for the tip.  I've seen rounder planes, but all were hand
cranked.

> Of course these solutions assume that the tenon is the same size as
> the rail, producing straight grained round cross sections.

Here in Ohio, we call that a dowel.  ;)

Ulrich



           
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Has anyone ever seen a tool you can chuck in you lathe to make round
tenons of a specific size?  Kinda works like a pencil sharpener, but
you hold the wood and the cutter goes around.  It was used by a guy who
made windsor chairs.  Anyone know what it's called and/or who sells
something like that?

eBay has been known to have something like that, for hand augers, not
lathes. You wouldn't want to be holding a piece of wood when it decides to
start spinning at 110rpm (slowest I know of for a lathe). Instead, clamp
the wood in your bench vise, grab your hollow auger and your brace, and
you are done in a few seconds.

Here is my search I use for eBay:
http://search.ebay.com/tenon-cutter-spoke-pointer_W0QQcombineZyQQfromZR14QQfromZ\
R9QQsatitleZQ28Q22tenonQ20cutterQ22Q2cQ20spokeQ20pointerQ22Q29QQsocolumnlayoutZ3\
QQsosortpropertyZ1

This is a sample hit that might be what you are looking for, but it really
looks more like a threading auger than just a hollow tenon cutter.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4123&item=6105058400&rd=1\
&ssPageName=WDVW

There is also no reason you can't practice until you can make consistent
tenons on the lathe using your standard lathe tools (scraper) and a
caliper.

For the people doing three legged stools, what was the state of the woods
they were using? Did you use the same wood for the seat as the legs as for
the braces?

Did you bake the braces before sizing and inserting them into the legs?

By dry heating the wood a bit, it will dry and shrink slightly, expanding
when you have it in the joint, locking the tenon in tighter.

Haraldr

Joseph Hayes said:
>
> The stool thread has got me thinking about something I saw a while back
on TV....
>
> Has anyone ever seen a tool you can chuck in you lathe to make round
tenons of a specific size?  Kinda works like a pencil sharpener, but you
hold the wood and the cutter goes around.  It was used by a guy who made
windsor chairs.  Anyone know what it's called and/or who sells something
like that?
>
> Thanks,
> Ulrich
>


--
Haraldr Bassi, Frosted Hills, East
haraldr at drakkar org

>
> Hey this is Chris Roberts from Manteo NC.  I was wondering if anyone
> has made a triangle stool?

you might like to talk to Julian Daniels
<http://merchants-medieval.com/cockerel/>, who made a lovely three
legged stool for me in Oak a year or so ago. You can find a picture in
<http://homepage.mac.com/rhook/sablerose/gallery/items/index.html>
----
“Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate” - William of Occam.

mailto: rhook@...
http://homepage.mac.com/rhook (source PGP signature from here)
Robert Hook
Brisbane, Qld, Australia

--- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, rikwolff@a... wrote:

> 1.) Don't skimp on the hardness or the diameter of the legs;
> no less than 2 inches, if you ask me.

If you're using turner's joints (round tenons), you can't go much
less than 2 inches on the posts without producing a very weak joint.
The smaller the diameter of the post, the closer together the
mortises are and the less wood there is in between them to hold
things together.

An alternative is to use a square tenon on one rail and a round one
on the ajoining rail. The round one goes through the square one,
locking it in place. It lets you do through tenons (common in
period) and also leaves a stronger post.

> The depth of the round mortices for the horizontal pieces is
> the only source of lateral stability (fighting against sway
> and what I can only describe as corkscrewing: you attempt a
> swivel, and the poor joints bend to allow it; next thing
> you know, CRUNCH).

When using turner's joints for the top seat rails, I always make the
tenons long enough that they intersect, and miter them so the ends
joint together snug. You can stagger the lower rails so they don't
intersect, or they only partially intersect and lock each other in
place.

However you do your tenons, plan on there being some tension in the
horizontal rails. Even with a drill press, you probably won't bore
the mortises precisely on every post. This tension can help hold
everything together though; I've got stools with no glue or pegs,
they're rock solid on just the internal tension of the rails and
posts.

Regards,

Fin
(Tom R.)

Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 06:25:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joseph Hayes
Subject: Tool for round tenons?


The stool thread has got me thinking about something I saw a while back
on TV....

Has anyone ever seen a tool you can chuck in you lathe to make round
tenons of a specific size? Kinda works like a pencil sharpener, but
you hold the wood and the cutter goes around. It was used by a guy who
made windsor chairs. Anyone know what it's called and/or who sells
something like that?

Thanks,
Ulrich

I have also seen one where your wood must be cut square, It goes in
a square socket that you while pushing the wood through a box with
blades in it. This lets you cut longer tennons if needed. But, it
does not go on a lathe.

your servant,
mahee

I recently made several beds that have glue-up legs. I do not own a
lot of tools, but I do have a belt sander. So I sanded and sanded to
get the edge smooth after the glue dried. It took forever to sand
the edges smooth. Then, after having done half of them I saw the one
tool I got from my grandfather, a hand plan. The hand plane took a
couple of minutes to do what it took me an hour to do with my belt
sander and did a better job too.

Sometimes the old tools are the best tool for the job.

<just another lesson learned by the inexperienced>

your servant,
mahee

For those whose family is too healthy to be able to inherit tools, watch
the flea markets and yard sales. I have found some truly amazing tools
over the years. I won't pay collectors prices and am always looking for
servicable tools instead of 'lookers' that the damn collectors are
screwing to their walls ruining forever.

As you are just starting down the path of playing with old tools, a piece
of advice... be careful using a plane after having used a sander, the sand
paper leaves pieces of stone (carborundum and silica) in the wood that
then dulls the edges of your tools needlessly. For smoothing and rounding
over the sharp edges of furniture, don't forget the simple solution of an
old broken piece of glass. Take a small piece that is comfortable in your
hand and you can use the sharp edge as a scraper, leaving a very nice
finish on the piece. And if you have a source of free broken windows, the
tool is free :)

Enjoy and keep experimenting with tools... I am quite relishing the times
I can be in the shop and hear myself breath and the sound of wood slicing
away instead of the harsh tools.

Haraldr



mahee of acre said:
> I recently made several beds that have glue-up legs. I do not own a
> lot of tools, but I do have a belt sander. So I sanded and sanded to
> get the edge smooth after the glue dried. It took forever to sand
> the edges smooth. Then, after having done half of them I saw the one
> tool I got from my grandfather, a hand plan. The hand plane took a
> couple of minutes to do what it took me an hour to do with my belt
> sander and did a better job too.
>
> Sometimes the old tools are the best tool for the job.
>
> <just another lesson learned by the inexperienced>
>
> your servant,
> mahee
>


--
Haraldr Bassi, Frosted Hills, East
haraldr at drakkar org

I will say, though, that if it takes more time to remove stock with a
belt sander than with a hand plane, you need a coarser grit.

Will

Who currently has seven hand planes he has yet to use.  Although the
irons are sharp.

Will
-----Original Message-----
From: Haraldr Bassi [mailto:haraldr@...]
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 2:25 PM
To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Grandps old tools

For those whose family is too healthy to be able to inherit tools, watch
the flea markets and yard sales. I have found some truly amazing tools
over the years. I won't pay collectors prices and am always looking for
servicable tools instead of 'lookers' that the damn collectors are
screwing to their walls ruining forever.

As you are just starting down the path of playing with old tools, a
piece
of advice... be careful using a plane after having used a sander, the
sand
paper leaves pieces of stone (carborundum and silica) in the wood that
then dulls the edges of your tools needlessly. For smoothing and
rounding
over the sharp edges of furniture, don't forget the simple solution of
an
old broken piece of glass. Take a small piece that is comfortable in
your
hand and you can use the sharp edge as a scraper, leaving a very nice
finish on the piece. And if you have a source of free broken windows,
the
tool is free :)

Enjoy and keep experimenting with tools... I am quite relishing the
times
I can be in the shop and hear myself breath and the sound of wood
slicing
away instead of the harsh tools.

Haraldr



mahee of acre said:
> I recently made several beds that have glue-up legs. I do not own a
> lot of tools, but I do have a belt sander. So I sanded and sanded to
> get the edge smooth after the glue dried. It took forever to sand
> the edges smooth. Then, after having done half of them I saw the one
> tool I got from my grandfather, a hand plan. The hand plane took a
> couple of minutes to do what it took me an hour to do with my belt
> sander and did a better job too.
>
> Sometimes the old tools are the best tool for the job.
>
> <just another lesson learned by the inexperienced>
>
> your servant,
> mahee
>


--
Haraldr Bassi, Frosted Hills, East
haraldr at drakkar org



Yahoo! Groups Links

I'm in need of two chairs _with_backs_ for 17th century Polish
reenacting.  Ideally, I'd like something simple in design that folds
up or disassembles into something fairly compact.  I'm hoping to make
them by our next event which is at the end of the month.  Does anyone
have any suggestions or phots of what they are using?

The Glastonbury style isn't right for Eastern Europe.

Thanks,
Ron

>For those whose family is too healthy to be able to
>inherit tools, watch the flea markets and yard sales.


Watch ebay!  I've picked up a set of Stanley bench
planes, #8 down to #4 there and gotten a fair deal on
each one.  Sure, they need some work, but they're all
good tools in reasonable condition. Right now I'm
looking for a #90 or #93.

Avery

http://www.mindspring.com/~tripper/serena/TileProject/
Something many artisans can join in.
Happened to see this on the SCA-Arts discussion list today.
I didn't initiate the project or choose the links, however
it is somewhat gratifying to see that my writings are in at
least four of them.

As a side note many of the alternative ivory and anglo-saxon
arts books are listed for those who like delving into such
things as well as sources for repouss'e in period such as
the matrices or helmet pieces with raised decorations.
One note Valsgarde is misspelled as Valsgard. If you look
for that resource you are going to need the right word.

Master Magnus

A plane is the wrong tool for fast material removal in many cases.
Depending on the needs, a drawknife is perfect. An experienced user of a
sharp drawknife with a shave bench can do things that an equally
experienced  someone with a vise and a belt sander could not achieve in
the same time frame. And the real upside is you don't need a mask to be
able to breath. Or to keep changing belts to get to something remotely
resembling a finished surface.

Obviously a hand tool can be found for everything that our medieval
counterparts did, as they didn't use power tools. It can take a bit of
experience to become accomplished with some hand tools, and sharpening is
probably the most important skill to learn.

An example of a task we needed to accomplish a couple years ago, we were
using a tapered spoon bit to make the holes in a set of 3 legged trestle
tables and needed to taper to the same shape the round wood stock we were
using for legs. I found that even without a shave horse available, just a
basic vise on my high bench I was able to taper the ends in a few minutes,
to the exact radius needed with final tuning and smoothing being done with
a spoke shave and plane. I also ended up with a double handful of long
shavings instead of a bucket of dust with a cup of it in my lungs.

If anyone wants to experience a drawknife, spokeshave and shave bench,
come down to Budgardr camp at Pennsic and let us put the tools into your
hands.

Haraldr

Bill McNutt said:
> I will say, though, that if it takes more time to remove stock with a
belt sander than with a hand plane, you need a coarser grit.
>
> Will
>
> Who currently has seven hand planes he has yet to use.  Although the
irons are sharp.
>


--
Haraldr Bassi, Frosted Hills, East
yahoo at drakkar org



--

I just added some new photos to my folder

The bench that I showed Charles and Rhys at
Crown.

I made some changes to the design but kept
the major points similar.



=====
Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
Seneschal, Barony of Fenix

    Aude Aliquid Dignum
      ' Dare Something Worthy '




__________________________________
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We have reached 94% of our storage limit
for the photo page on the yahoo group.

Does anyone have any ideas for more space?

or do we need to clean out some of the
older photos?

We could start a second and use it just
to double the photo storage space, but I'd
bet we would overlook photos that way....


Ideas? Suggestions? Comments?

=====
Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
Seneschal, Barony of Fenix

    Aude Aliquid Dignum
      ' Dare Something Worthy '



__________________________________
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New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
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A few suggestions:

Everyone who has pictures posted, go in & delete the full sized image.
Yahoo only lets the rest of us see a reduced size copy anyhow, but keeps a
'full sized ' copy for you to look at, which counts against the limit. Put
a relevant blurb/caption with each pic, so people know what they are
looking at - Is it a copy?, where is it?

Reference pictures - ie. 'Period' art and items in Museums could be put in
folders in the 'Files' area, labeled as to the contents - such as chests,
tables, trestles - not "Phred's Photo's". Using the 'Files' area for
relevant material gives another 20 meg. or so to go with the 30 meg in the
Photo section.

If you have the same pictures up on your own site, just post a link instead
of duplicating the photo's. You can get a 'Yahoo' members photo album to
stick an individual 30 Meg or so of pic's in, just reference it instead.
You still get to put a blurb with the link.


regards
Brusi

At 12:11 PM 7/9/04, you wrote:
>We have reached 94% of our storage limit
>for the photo page on the yahoo group.
>
>Does anyone have any ideas for more space?
>
>or do we need to clean out some of the
>older photos?
>
>We could start a second and use it just
>to double the photo storage space, but I'd
>bet we would overlook photos that way....
>
>
>Ideas? Suggestions? Comments?
>
>=====
>Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
>Seneschal, Barony of Fenix
>
>    Aude Aliquid Dignum
>      ' Dare Something Worthy '