I'll throw in my $0.02 :)

In part it depends on what construction methods you use.  I hand-carve
many flutes and for that you basically just want a good set of carving
tools, some needle files, sanding blocks and clamps.  I also solid
bore some flutes on the drill press.  Dremel or (better) Foredom
rotary tools are useful for lots of things.  I use a table saw for
dimensioning flute blanks.  Bandsaw (12-14") for resawing thick lumber
and splitting blanks.  I have a scroll saw that I occasionally use to
rough-cut blocks.   Make a shooting board by cutting a piece of
plywood about 4" by 24" and glue like 150 grit sandpaper to it with
rubber cement.  I use this all the time.  If you use routers for split
bore construction, a router on router table or a shaper.  For actually
routing the bore, I would say a plunge router with a custom jig.  If
you like to turn the outside of the flute, a wood lathe.  Can also be
used for solid-boring.

Since it sounds like you don't already have a lot of stationary power
tools, you might look at a Shopsmith.  They are really handy if you
want a lot of stationary power tools and either don't have an enormous
budget or a lot of space.  The downside is that to go from one tool to
another requires some setup time.  I don't have one, but used to work
in a shop where we built and repaired keyboard instruments (pianos,
harpsichords, clavichords), and the shopsmith was the main power tool
in that shop.  Given enough space though, it is nice to have more
dedicated tools, so you don't have as much setup time when you want to
use one.

Dust collector.  This can be as simple as a big shopvac.  However, if
we're talking fairy godmother, definitely a good powerful dust
collector with permanent connections to all dust-producing tools.

A good solid workbench with a nice thick work surface is one of the
greatest things.

I have a ton of different kinds of clamps, but the clamps I actually
use to glue flutes together are Jorgenson wood clamps and Irwin one
handed bar clamps.

-Jeremy

--- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "little_raven_flutes"
<little_raven_flutes@...> wrote:
>
> I'll throw in my $0.02 :)
>
> In part it depends on what construction methods you use.  I hand-
carve
> many flutes and for that you basically just want a good set of
carving
> tools, some needle files, sanding blocks and clamps.  I also solid
> bore some flutes on the drill press.  Dremel or (better) Foredom
> rotary tools are useful for lots of things.  I use a table saw for
> dimensioning flute blanks.  Bandsaw (12-14") for resawing thick
lumber
> and splitting blanks.  I have a scroll saw that I occasionally use
to
> rough-cut blocks.   Make a shooting board by cutting a piece of
> plywood about 4" by 24" and glue like 150 grit sandpaper to it with
> rubber cement.  I use this all the time.  If you use routers for
split
> bore construction, a router on router table or a shaper.  For
actually
> routing the bore, I would say a plunge router with a custom jig.  If
> you like to turn the outside of the flute, a wood lathe.  Can also
be
> used for solid-boring.
>
> Since it sounds like you don't already have a lot of stationary
power
> tools, you might look at a Shopsmith.  They are really handy if you
> want a lot of stationary power tools and either don't have an
enormous
> budget or a lot of space.  The downside is that to go from one tool
to
> another requires some setup time.  I don't have one, but used to
work
> in a shop where we built and repaired keyboard instruments (pianos,
> harpsichords, clavichords), and the shopsmith was the main power
tool
> in that shop.  Given enough space though, it is nice to have more
> dedicated tools, so you don't have as much setup time when you want
to
> use one.
>
> Dust collector.  This can be as simple as a big shopvac.  However,
if
> we're talking fairy godmother, definitely a good powerful dust
> collector with permanent connections to all dust-producing tools.
>
> A good solid workbench with a nice thick work surface is one of the
> greatest things.
>
> I have a ton of different kinds of clamps, but the clamps I actually
> use to glue flutes together are Jorgenson wood clamps and Irwin one
> handed bar clamps.
>
> -Jeremy
>
Hi
I'm a newbie and I'm in the process of making my first flute using
pre-routered blanks that I bought. I am going to buy a router and
table, but I'm also very interested in using just hand tools. Can you
give me more information on the types of tools you use, and your
process when gouging the the bore and SAC?

Thanks
Steve

Steve, try doing some searches through the archives using "branch
flute" or "gouge" as a search criteria. Also, be sure to download the
file "NAFTipsTricksSecrets2.01.pdf" in the files section. It has
pointers or links to a bunch of good threads in the archives and is a
good place to start. Once you have spent some time looking around, if
you have additional questions please ask, the more specific the better
the answers you will get. General questions like "How do I make a
flute" are too broad to get good answers via email.

Mike Jones

-----Original Message-----
From: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of redoak_1
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:04 AM
To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: need info on setting up shop


Hi
I'm a newbie and I'm in the process of making my first flute using
pre-routered blanks that I bought. I am going to buy a router and
table, but I'm also very interested in using just hand tools. Can you
give me more information on the types of tools you use, and your
process when gouging the the bore and SAC?

Thanks
Steve

To those here making flutes with hand tools, I would like get some
recommendations for carving gouges. I make 3/4", 7/8" and 1" and will be
making 1.25" and 1.5" in the future. I currently use a router, but want
to make some by hand. I have a nice set of swiss made wood carving
chisels from the mid-80's but I don't have any gouges that are big
enough to efficiently make a bore.

I am looking for source, size and brand recommendations. Any help is
appreciated. Woodcraft has them but i don't understand their #
classification system.
http://www.woodcraft.com/depts.aspx?DeptID=4003
<http://www.woodcraft.com/depts.aspx?DeptID=4003>

Thanks a bunch!

Jason Gianfriddo

jason@... <mailto:jason@...>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "Jason G" <jason@...>
wrote:
>
>
> To those here making flutes with hand tools, I would like get some
> recommendations for carving gouges. I make 3/4", 7/8" and 1" and
will be
> making 1.25" and 1.5" in the future. I currently use a router, but
want
> to make some by hand. I have a nice set of swiss made wood carving
> chisels from the mid-80's but I don't have any gouges that are big
> enough to efficiently make a bore.
>
> I am looking for source, size and brand recommendations. Any help is
> appreciated. Woodcraft has them but i don't understand their #
> classification system.
> http://www.woodcraft.com/depts.aspx?DeptID=4003
> <http://www.woodcraft.com/depts.aspx?DeptID=4003>
>
> Thanks a bunch!
>
> Jason Gianfriddo
>
> jason@... <mailto:jason@...>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Jason

The the woodcraft site has a chart that indicates the "sweep"
diameter. I believe a #9 is round, while the other numbers are
different degrees.

Steve

Thanks Steve, i just found it.  For all those interested, here is the
chart. Looks like #9 is what i'm looking for and probably sizes a tad
smaller than the bore I am shooting for.

http://www.woodcraft.com/articles.aspx?articleid=396
<http://www.woodcraft.com/articles.aspx?articleid=396>

Jason


--- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "redoak_1"
<neptune2298@...> wrote:
>
> --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "Jason G" jason@
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > To those here making flutes with hand tools, I would like get some
> > recommendations for carving gouges. I make 3/4", 7/8" and 1" and
> will be
> > making 1.25" and 1.5" in the future. I currently use a router, but
> want
> > to make some by hand. I have a nice set of swiss made wood carving
> > chisels from the mid-80's but I don't have any gouges that are big
> > enough to efficiently make a bore.
> >
> > I am looking for source, size and brand recommendations. Any help is
> > appreciated. Woodcraft has them but i don't understand their #
> > classification system.
> > http://www.woodcraft.com/depts.aspx?DeptID=4003
> > <http://www.woodcraft.com/depts.aspx?DeptID=4003>
> >
> > Thanks a bunch!
> >
> > Jason Gianfriddo
> >
> > jason@ <mailto:jason@
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >Jason
>
> The the woodcraft site has a chart that indicates the "sweep"
> diameter. I believe a #9 is round, while the other numbers are
> different degrees.
>
> Steve
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Jones"
<jonesmr@...> wrote:
>
> Steve, try doing some searches through the archives using "branch
> flute" or "gouge" as a search criteria. Also, be sure to download
the
> file "NAFTipsTricksSecrets2.01.pdf" in the files section. It has
> pointers or links to a bunch of good threads in the archives and is
a
> good place to start. Once you have spent some time looking around,
if
> you have additional questions please ask, the more specific the
better
> the answers you will get. General questions like "How do I make a
> flute" are too broad to get good answers via email.
>
> Mike Jones
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
redoak_1
> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:04 AM
> To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: need info on setting up shop
>
>
> Hi
> I'm a newbie and I'm in the process of making my first flute using
> pre-routered blanks that I bought. I am going to buy a router and
> table, but I'm also very interested in using just hand tools. Can
you
> give me more information on the types of tools you use, and your
> process when gouging the the bore and SAC?
>
> Thanks
> Steve
>
I had done a complete research of the files prior to to asking my
questions, and while there is some info on hand tools I didn't find
that much on the process.
Also, I didn't ask "How do I make a flute" I simply asked for info on
gougeing the SAC, bore, and the tools used.

Steve

----- Original Message -----
From: "redoak_1" <neptune2298@...>
To: <nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:04 AM
Subject: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: need info on setting up shop


> --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "little_raven_flutes"
> <little_raven_flutes@...> wrote:
>>
>> I'll throw in my $0.02 :)
>>
>> In part it depends on what construction methods you use.  I hand-
> carve
>> many flutes and for that you basically just want a good set of
> carving
>> tools, some needle files, sanding blocks and clamps.  I also solid
>> bore some flutes on the drill press.  Dremel or (better) Foredom
>> rotary tools are useful for lots of things.  I use a table saw for
>> dimensioning flute blanks.  Bandsaw (12-14") for resawing thick
> lumber
>> and splitting blanks.  I have a scroll saw that I occasionally use
> to
>> rough-cut blocks.   Make a shooting board by cutting a piece of
>> plywood about 4" by 24" and glue like 150 grit sandpaper to it with
>> rubber cement.  I use this all the time.  If you use routers for
> split
>> bore construction, a router on router table or a shaper.  For
> actually
>> routing the bore, I would say a plunge router with a custom jig.  If
>> you like to turn the outside of the flute, a wood lathe.  Can also
> be
>> used for solid-boring.
>>
>> Since it sounds like you don't already have a lot of stationary
> power
>> tools, you might look at a Shopsmith.  They are really handy if you
>> want a lot of stationary power tools and either don't have an
> enormous
>> budget or a lot of space.  The downside is that to go from one tool
> to
>> another requires some setup time.  I don't have one, but used to
> work
>> in a shop where we built and repaired keyboard instruments (pianos,
>> harpsichords, clavichords), and the shopsmith was the main power
> tool
>> in that shop.  Given enough space though, it is nice to have more
>> dedicated tools, so you don't have as much setup time when you want
> to
>> use one.
>>
>> Dust collector.  This can be as simple as a big shopvac.  However,
> if
>> we're talking fairy godmother, definitely a good powerful dust
>> collector with permanent connections to all dust-producing tools.
>>
>> A good solid workbench with a nice thick work surface is one of the
>> greatest things.
>>
>> I have a ton of different kinds of clamps, but the clamps I actually
>> use to glue flutes together are Jorgenson wood clamps and Irwin one
>> handed bar clamps.
>>
>> -Jeremy
>>
> Hi
> I'm a newbie and I'm in the process of making my first flute using
> pre-routered blanks that I bought. I am going to buy a router and
> table, but I'm also very interested in using just hand tools. Can you
> give me more information on the types of tools you use, and your
> process when gouging the the bore and SAC?
>
> Thanks
> Steve
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Steve, I just used that phrase as the most extreme example possible,
not trying to say that you asked it that way. Sorry for the
miscommunication.

I prefer hand gouges, Donn swears by his heavy duty rotary tool with
kutsall (sp?) carbide burs that can really eatup the wood.

First, rough shape the outside of the blank, including the mouth
piece. mark out the TSH and SAC exit. Then split the blank with a
bandsaw. transfer the TSH and SAC exit guides to the inside of the
flute, draw a line at the thickness you want the walls to be. Use a
knife to score the wood at the line marking the wall thickness, at the
TSH back wall and SAC exit wall, and SAC wall thickness. Use your
gouge to cut out the wood at the edges of the bore wall first. Then
alternate using the gouge and the knife to gouge out the TSH area with
a flat back wall at the plug. Donn prefers to drill several small
holes for the TSH and SAC exit prior to splitting the bore to aid in
this step, I prefer to do the gouging, then burn in the TSH and SAC
exit.

Do the same for the SAC.

finish gouging the length of the bore. I used a flap sander 3/4"
diameter to smooth out the bore of the last branch flute I did. You
can cut the ramp for the TSH with a chisel or flat gouge and shape the
TSH, before glueup. a dowel with sand paper wrapped around it works
well to smooth the bore after gouging.

Glue the halves together, wrap with long strips of inner tube rather
than clamps to get a more even pressure, specially on odd shaped
branch flutes. be sure to clean the glue on the inside of the bore
before it dries.

Work the TSH and SAC exit and flue until you get a good fundamental.
Finish the inside and outside with a coat of finish to seal it while
tuning. Tune it.


Mike Jones

-----Original Message-----
From: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of redoak_1
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 10:07 AM
To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: need info on setting up shop

--- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Jones"
<jonesmr@...> wrote:
>
> Steve, try doing some searches through the archives using "branch
> flute" or "gouge" as a search criteria. Also, be sure to download
the
> file "NAFTipsTricksSecrets2.01.pdf" in the files section. It has
> pointers or links to a bunch of good threads in the archives and is
a
> good place to start. Once you have spent some time looking around,
if
> you have additional questions please ask, the more specific the
better
> the answers you will get. General questions like "How do I make a
> flute" are too broad to get good answers via email.
>
> Mike Jones
>

I posted FluteSheet3.1.xls in the Shibuibob folder.  The only change is
a correction in the tuning/temperature adjustment section.  The tuning
adjustment using cents is now more accurate.
Bob

Steve:

In regards to using a gouge for making flutes, I would only recommend the
Flexicut gouges.
Many will differ with me, but the brand is what I was taught to use by John
Suttles and the Fallen Branch Group.
The power handle is just a wood handle that receives the blades, but it
allows you to purchase several blades to interchange during crafting.
I have a fairly concise how to over on the Basic NAF site should you want to
take a look.  Plus on this forum I have a few posted pictures of the tools I
use for the branch flutes in the files.
I am one of a very few that use the MasterCarver flex shaft with the Kutzall
flame burr to clear the bore of a split branch flute.
I really do not like lathes and routers because of their potential dangers,
especially to newbies or people not willing to learn safety from a seasoned
shopmaster.

Selecting and using gouges gets down to personal preference and personal
skills.  Also, it depends on how and who taught you to carve.
What works for me does not seem natural for others.  Personally, I use a
Flexicut curved gouge that is 1/4 in wide.  The most ususeful also, is the
1/4 and the 1/2 in flat blade chisels in the Flexicut blades.   For all the
rest, the Kutzall burrs and the diamond files, along with the dremel drum
sanders do the rest.
Personally, I use the gouge from side to side to chip out the bore,  but I
only do the first 3 in on the TSH side.  I finish the rest of the flute and
SAC with the Kutzall.  The final shaping is done with the other files and
cutting tools.
Mike Jones and others use a slightly wider gouge and like to go down the
grain through the bore length.  For me, doing that causes lots of grief with
checking and uneven bore shape.  My bores are smooth and consistant and it
only takes me less than 3 hours to do a smooth neat job of both sides of a
flute ready to do the finishing touches on the sound mechanism before glue
up.   It took me several months to learn the technique, but I keep wondering
why so many people keep beating up on themselves determined to do it the old
way and be proud of all their blisters and frustrations.
Of course, I do not sell my flutes, and each piece of wood is a new
adventure, which is the best part about branch flutes.
I really hope that the Fallen Branch guys get that DVD out soon.  It will
probably be a great help to newbies.  For those still wanting to use routers
and lathes, go for it. It is what you learned to do best.
I hope you find your own path and the tools that fit your needs and style.

Oh yes,  about that wonder shop.  They forgot to mention the vertical
rotating  occillating  spindle bench sander.  It is great for helping to
shape up a branch flute blank.

Regards,

Tejas Medicineman
Donn Shands

--- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Jones"
<jonesmr@...> wrote:
>
> Steve, I just used that phrase as the most extreme example possible,
> not trying to say that you asked it that way. Sorry for the
> miscommunication.
>
> I prefer hand gouges, Donn swears by his heavy duty rotary tool with
> kutsall (sp?) carbide burs that can really eatup the wood.
>
> First, rough shape the outside of the blank, including the mouth
> piece. mark out the TSH and SAC exit. Then split the blank with a
> bandsaw. transfer the TSH and SAC exit guides to the inside of the
> flute, draw a line at the thickness you want the walls to be. Use a
> knife to score the wood at the line marking the wall thickness, at
the
> TSH back wall and SAC exit wall, and SAC wall thickness. Use your
> gouge to cut out the wood at the edges of the bore wall first. Then
> alternate using the gouge and the knife to gouge out the TSH area
with
> a flat back wall at the plug. Donn prefers to drill several small
> holes for the TSH and SAC exit prior to splitting the bore to aid in
> this step, I prefer to do the gouging, then burn in the TSH and SAC
> exit.
>
> Do the same for the SAC.
>
> finish gouging the length of the bore. I used a flap sander 3/4"
> diameter to smooth out the bore of the last branch flute I did. You
> can cut the ramp for the TSH with a chisel or flat gouge and shape
the
> TSH, before glueup. a dowel with sand paper wrapped around it works
> well to smooth the bore after gouging.
>
> Glue the halves together, wrap with long strips of inner tube rather
> than clamps to get a more even pressure, specially on odd shaped
> branch flutes. be sure to clean the glue on the inside of the bore
> before it dries.
>
> Work the TSH and SAC exit and flue until you get a good fundamental.
> Finish the inside and outside with a coat of finish to seal it while
> tuning. Tune it.
>
>
> Mike Jones
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
redoak_1
> Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 10:07 AM
> To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: need info on setting up shop
>
> --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Jones"
> <jonesmr@> wrote:
> >
> > Steve, try doing some searches through the archives using "branch
> > flute" or "gouge" as a search criteria. Also, be sure to download
> the
> > file "NAFTipsTricksSecrets2.01.pdf" in the files section. It has
> > pointers or links to a bunch of good threads in the archives and
is
> a
> > good place to start. Once you have spent some time looking around,
> if
> > you have additional questions please ask, the more specific the
> better
> > the answers you will get. General questions like "How do I make a
> > flute" are too broad to get good answers via email.
> >
> > Mike Jones

> >
>Just what I was looking for Mike. Thanks much!

Steve

--- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "tejasmed"
<tejasmed@...> wrote:
>
> Steve:
>
> In regards to using a gouge for making flutes, I would only
recommend the
> Flexicut gouges.
> Many will differ with me, but the brand is what I was taught to use
by John
> Suttles and the Fallen Branch Group.
> The power handle is just a wood handle that receives the blades,
but it
> allows you to purchase several blades to interchange during
crafting.
> I have a fairly concise how to over on the Basic NAF site should
you want to
> take a look.  Plus on this forum I have a few posted pictures of
the tools I
> use for the branch flutes in the files.
> I am one of a very few that use the MasterCarver flex shaft with
the Kutzall
> flame burr to clear the bore of a split branch flute.
> I really do not like lathes and routers because of their potential
dangers,
> especially to newbies or people not willing to learn safety from a
seasoned
> shopmaster.
>
> Selecting and using gouges gets down to personal preference and
personal
> skills.  Also, it depends on how and who taught you to carve.
> What works for me does not seem natural for others.  Personally, I
use a
> Flexicut curved gouge that is 1/4 in wide.  The most ususeful also,
is the
> 1/4 and the 1/2 in flat blade chisels in the Flexicut blades.   For
all the
> rest, the Kutzall burrs and the diamond files, along with the
dremel drum
> sanders do the rest.
> Personally, I use the gouge from side to side to chip out the
bore,  but I
> only do the first 3 in on the TSH side.  I finish the rest of the
flute and
> SAC with the Kutzall.  The final shaping is done with the other
files and
> cutting tools.
> Mike Jones and others use a slightly wider gouge and like to go
down the
> grain through the bore length.  For me, doing that causes lots of
grief with
> checking and uneven bore shape.  My bores are smooth and consistant
and it
> only takes me less than 3 hours to do a smooth neat job of both
sides of a
> flute ready to do the finishing touches on the sound mechanism
before glue
> up.   It took me several months to learn the technique, but I keep
wondering
> why so many people keep beating up on themselves determined to do
it the old
> way and be proud of all their blisters and frustrations.
> Of course, I do not sell my flutes, and each piece of wood is a new
> adventure, which is the best part about branch flutes.
> I really hope that the Fallen Branch guys get that DVD out soon.
It will
> probably be a great help to newbies.  For those still wanting to
use routers
> and lathes, go for it. It is what you learned to do best.
> I hope you find your own path and the tools that fit your needs and
style.
>
> Oh yes,  about that wonder shop.  They forgot to mention the
vertical
> rotating  occillating  spindle bench sander.  It is great for
helping to
> shape up a branch flute blank.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tejas Medicineman
> Donn Shands
>


Great information! I was actually looking at flexicut gouges in a
store yesterday. It's always nice to have an endorsement before
laying down the cash.

  Thanks much Donn.

Steve, I use the Flexcut gouges, as well.  They are great and maintain a sharp
edge for a long time.  I bought a 3/4" wide Flexcut, because most of the bores
on my flutes are 3/4" to 1 1/4" DIA.  Guess what.  I never use it.  The 1/2" and
1/4" are much more useful.  It takes a lot of pressure to push through that wide
3/4" gouge and the chances of slipping or taking off too much is great.  I can
go a lot faster and more efficiently with the narrower gouges. Oh, well. Lesson
learned.

I learned most of what I know from Donn Shands, Mike Jones, and the Fallen
Branch guys.

Peace, David


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have a nice mesquite flute by Butch Hall and it is beautiful and plays good.
Dave
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: cerdaclan@...
   To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 8:07 AM
   Subject: [Native Flute Woodworking] Mesquite


   Has anyone made a flute from mesquite? I make totems from Mesquite and
   LOVE it. It is a GORGEOUS wood, but extremely hard. I nearly lost my
   hand last year in my compound miter saw trying to cut a small piece off
   a block! I go to a local firewood yard to pick up scraps and always
   look for a piece I could use to build a flute with. Now, I am getting
   ready to cut a young mesquite down in my back yard and I would like to
   try to kiln dry it and attempt to build some flutes with it. I wonder
   if there is a reason that you do not see mesquite flutes? I know it is
   difficult to find mesquite that is not full of cracks.,....but is the
   wood toxic? I have a list of toxic woods and do not see it on there
   and I know it is used a lot for furniture.

   Terri




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Donn,
Do you recomend the real coarse kutzall bits and is the flame shape better than
the round shape? Is there a part number for the bit you are talking about?
Thanks,
Carl

--- On Sun, 3/1/09, tejasmed <tejasmed@...> wrote:

From: tejasmed <tejasmed@...>
Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: need info on setting up shop
To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 12:55 PM






Steve:

In regards to using a gouge for making flutes, I would only recommend the
Flexicut gouges.
Many will differ with me, but the brand is what I was taught to use by John
Suttles and the Fallen Branch Group.
The power handle is just a wood handle that receives the blades, but it
allows you to purchase several blades to interchange during crafting.
I have a fairly concise how to over on the Basic NAF site should you want to
take a look. Plus on this forum I have a few posted pictures of the tools I
use for the branch flutes in the files.
I am one of a very few that use the MasterCarver flex shaft with the Kutzall
flame burr to clear the bore of a split branch flute.
I really do not like lathes and routers because of their potential dangers,
especially to newbies or people not willing to learn safety from a seasoned
shopmaster.

Selecting and using gouges gets down to personal preference and personal
skills. Also, it depends on how and who taught you to carve.
What works for me does not seem natural for others. Personally, I use a
Flexicut curved gouge that is 1/4 in wide. The most ususeful also, is the
1/4 and the 1/2 in flat blade chisels in the Flexicut blades. For all the
rest, the Kutzall burrs and the diamond files, along with the dremel drum
sanders do the rest.
Personally, I use the gouge from side to side to chip out the bore, but I
only do the first 3 in on the TSH side. I finish the rest of the flute and
SAC with the Kutzall. The final shaping is done with the other files and
cutting tools.
Mike Jones and others use a slightly wider gouge and like to go down the
grain through the bore length. For me, doing that causes lots of grief with
checking and uneven bore shape. My bores are smooth and consistant and it
only takes me less than 3 hours to do a smooth neat job of both sides of a
flute ready to do the finishing touches on the sound mechanism before glue
up. It took me several months to learn the technique, but I keep wondering
why so many people keep beating up on themselves determined to do it the old
way and be proud of all their blisters and frustrations.
Of course, I do not sell my flutes, and each piece of wood is a new
adventure, which is the best part about branch flutes.
I really hope that the Fallen Branch guys get that DVD out soon. It will
probably be a great help to newbies. For those still wanting to use routers
and lathes, go for it. It is what you learned to do best.
I hope you find your own path and the tools that fit your needs and style.

Oh yes, about that wonder shop. They forgot to mention the vertical
rotating occillating spindle bench sander. It is great for helping to
shape up a branch flute blank.

Regards,

Tejas Medicineman
Donn Shands



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Safety to add to the great ventilation system you would have set up:



Multiple flexible  gloves, some nitrile, chemical resistant; some Kevlar



A half face negative pressure respirator with escape filters, or dual HEPA
/)V filters;

Or a PAPR (powered air purifying respirator) with dual HEPA/OV filters.



Ellie



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have seen gloves recommended here several times. Unless you
only do flutes by hand with gouges I would leave the gloves out
of the shop. You only need to see and individual whose glove
got caught in a spinning lathe or cutter to know why. I have
seen guys with long hair get it caught in a cutter being turned
with a 20 HP motor. Not a pretty sight. Some safty to think about.
Jerry






--- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "Ellie Barbarash"
<ebarbarash@...> wrote:
>
> Safety to add to the great ventilation system you would have set up:
>
>
>
> Multiple flexible  gloves, some nitrile, chemical resistant; some Kevlar
>
>
>
> A half face negative pressure respirator with escape filters, or
dual HEPA
> /)V filters;
>
> Or a PAPR (powered air purifying respirator) with dual HEPA/OV filters.
>
>
>
> Ellie
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Carl:

Check www.woodcarverssupply.com

They will list the Kutzall burrs
The burrs come in black, (super course)  silver, course,  and the gold,
fine.

The part that I use more than any of the others is the flame burr.  It will
be listed as their Q  265098 Silver
Be careful as there are three sizes of the burr, a 1/4 , and 1/2 and 3/4
head.
The general shaping tool is the 1/2 in head and that is what I prefer to
use.
Be aware that while most individuals do not have anything more powerful than
a standard dremel, the Kutzall required to do bore work, will not work as
the bit required has a 1/4 in shank.
Granted you can buy burrs with 1/8 shanks, but the time consumed and the
machines burned up are not worth it.
The Master Carver and the Foredom have handles that take the 1/4 in shank,
have the HP to make it work, and the speed needed for smooth cutting.
I have tried the ball burrs, and the ball ended burrs,   for some reason,
the flame allows me better control and the ability to get to tight corners
especially when pre dressing the inner TSH and SAC areas.  That point makes
a big difference.  I finish that area with exacto, diamond files, and dremel
with small carbide and diamond burrs.
When the motor set came,  they sent me the green Saburkut bit instead of the
standard Kutzall silver bit.  It is also made by Kutzall.
The teeth on the green Saburkut are spaced evenly and are supposed to be
less clogging.
Maybe so if you were using wet or resinous wood.  It just did not act right
for me, and it was like night and day to use the silver and gold Kutzall.
Using the silver against the gold is a learned issue.  The silver is fairly
universal and will still leave a fairly smooth surface on the bore. The gold
will leave a nice smooth surface.
However, time and place for each. On real hard woods,  like pecan, use the
silver.  On pulpy woods, use the gold.
Using a 1/4 Kutzall is not an evening project of leisurely daintily holding
your handle in one hand and detailing on a piece of wood.
You have to have a wood holding device to free up two hands,  wear gloves,
and eye protection, and there is absolutely no way to excape using a rubber
respirator mask  with filters.  (less than 25 bucks off Amazon.  )
Putting a vacc hose up next to the work area helps a lot too.
The trick to the whole thing is to get the burr up to high speed.  Low speed
will allow the burr to grab and jump and not only will it scare the heck out
of you,  but it is easy to ruin a piece being worked on.  That bit has to be
up to speed at all times it is near or on that wood.  Learn to use the foot
pedal properly,  it also serves as a safety device.
For those of the group that use lathes and routers, there is not much use
for the Kutzall, for those of us that have crooked branches,  it is a great
tool.  While the traditionalist cry foul, Suttles has wryly  said that if
the old timers had the tools like we have now, there would have been a lot
more happy braves with courting flutes.

Good luck,  here to help more if needed.

Donn Shands
Tejas Medicineman

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Pettit" <cedarfluteman@...>
To: <nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: need info on setting up shop


> Donn,
> Do you recomend the real coarse kutzall bits and is the flame shape better
> than the round shape? Is there a part number for the bit you are talking
> about?
> Thanks,
> Carl
>
> --- On Sun, 3/1/09, tejasmed <tejasmed@...> wrote:
>
> From: tejasmed <tejasmed@...>
> Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: need info on setting up shop
> To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 12:55 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Steve:
>
> In regards to using a gouge for making flutes, I would only recommend the
> Flexicut gouges.
> Many will differ with me, but the brand is what I was taught to use by
> John
> Suttles and the Fallen Branch Group.
> The power handle is just a wood handle that receives the blades, but it
> allows you to purchase several blades to interchange during crafting.
> I have a fairly concise how to over on the Basic NAF site should you want
> to
> take a look. Plus on this forum I have a few posted pictures of the tools
> I
> use for the branch flutes in the files.
> I am one of a very few that use the MasterCarver flex shaft with the
> Kutzall
> flame burr to clear the bore of a split branch flute.
> I really do not like lathes and routers because of their potential
> dangers,
> especially to newbies or people not willing to learn safety from a
> seasoned
> shopmaster.
>
> Selecting and using gouges gets down to personal preference and personal
> skills. Also, it depends on how and who taught you to carve.
> What works for me does not seem natural for others. Personally, I use a
> Flexicut curved gouge that is 1/4 in wide. The most ususeful also, is the
> 1/4 and the 1/2 in flat blade chisels in the Flexicut blades. For all the
> rest, the Kutzall burrs and the diamond files, along with the dremel drum
> sanders do the rest.
> Personally, I use the gouge from side to side to chip out the bore, but I
> only do the first 3 in on the TSH side. I finish the rest of the flute and
> SAC with the Kutzall. The final shaping is done with the other files and
> cutting tools.
> Mike Jones and others use a slightly wider gouge and like to go down the
> grain through the bore length. For me, doing that causes lots of grief
> with
> checking and uneven bore shape. My bores are smooth and consistant and it
> only takes me less than 3 hours to do a smooth neat job of both sides of a
> flute ready to do the finishing touches on the sound mechanism before glue
> up. It took me several months to learn the technique, but I keep wondering
> why so many people keep beating up on themselves determined to do it the
> old
> way and be proud of all their blisters and frustrations.
> Of course, I do not sell my flutes, and each piece of wood is a new
> adventure, which is the best part about branch flutes.
> I really hope that the Fallen Branch guys get that DVD out soon. It will
> probably be a great help to newbies. For those still wanting to use
> routers
> and lathes, go for it. It is what you learned to do best.
> I hope you find your own path and the tools that fit your needs and style.
>
> Oh yes, about that wonder shop. They forgot to mention the vertical
> rotating occillating spindle bench sander. It is great for helping to
> shape up a branch flute blank.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tejas Medicineman
> Donn Shands
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Excellent information Don.  I just wanted to add that following the  burring
I use a 1/4 inch sanding  disk that is about an inch long and just  less in
diameter than the diameter of the bore.  I got mine at rockler and  the sanding
disks come in various grits.  This helps put a smoother surface  on the bore
following the burring.
Phil


In a message dated 3/1/2009 6:32:18 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
tejasmed@... writes:




Carl:

Check www.woodcarverssuppCheck

They will list the  Kutzall burrs
The burrs come in black, (super course) silver, course, and  the gold,
fine.

The part that I use more than any of the others is  the flame burr. It will
be listed as their Q 265098 Silver
Be careful  as there are three sizes of the burr, a 1/4 , and 1/2 and 3/4
head.
The  general shaping tool is the 1/2 in head and that is what I prefer to
use.
Be aware that while most individuals do not have anything more  powerful than
a standard dremel, the Kutzall required to do bore work,  will not work as
the bit required has a 1/4 in shank.
Granted you can  buy burrs with 1/8 shanks, but the time consumed and the
machines burned  up are not worth it.
The Master Carver and the Foredom have handles that  take the 1/4 in shank,
have the HP to make it work, and the speed needed  for smooth cutting.
I have tried the ball burrs, and the ball ended burrs,  for some reason,
the flame allows me better control and the ability to get  to tight corners
especially when pre dressing the inner TSH and SAC areas.  That point makes
a big difference. I finish that area with exacto, diamond  files, and dremel
with small carbide and diamond burrs.
When the motor  set came, they sent me the green Saburkut bit instead of the
standard  Kutzall silver bit. It is also made by Kutzall.
The teeth on the green  Saburkut are spaced evenly and are supposed to be
less clogging.
Maybe  so if you were using wet or resinous wood. It just did not act right
for  me, and it was like night and day to use the silver and gold Kutzall.
Using the silver against the gold is a learned issue. The silver is fairly
universal and will still leave a fairly smooth surface on the bore. The  gold
will leave a nice smooth surface.
However, time and place for  each. On real hard woods, like pecan, use the
silver. On pulpy woods, use  the gold.
Using a 1/4 Kutzall is not an evening project of leisurely  daintily holding
your handle in one hand and detailing on a piece of  wood.
You have to have a wood holding device to free up two hands, wear  gloves,
and eye protection, and there is absolutely no way to excape using  a rubber
respirator mask with filters. (less than 25 bucks off Amazon. )
Putting a vacc hose up next to the work area helps a lot too.
The trick  to the whole thing is to get the burr up to high speed. Low speed
will  allow the burr to grab and jump and not only will it scare the heck out
of  you, but it is easy to ruin a piece being worked on. That bit has to be
up  to speed at all times it is near or on that wood. Learn to use the foot
pedal properly, it also serves as a safety device.
For those of the  group that use lathes and routers, there is not much use
for the Kutzall,  for those of us that have crooked branches, it is a great
tool. While the  traditionalist cry foul, Suttles has wryly said that if
the old timers had  the tools like we have now, there would have been a lot
more happy braves  with courting flutes.

Good luck, here to help more if  needed.

Donn Shands
Tejas Medicineman

----- Original Message  -----
From: "Carl Pettit" <_cedarfluteman@cedarflut_
(mailto:cedarfluteman@...) >
To:  <_nativeflutewoodworknativeflutewoodwnat_
(mailto:nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com) >
Sent:  Sunday, March 01, 2009 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re:  need info on setting up shop

> Donn,
> Do you recomend the  real coarse kutzall bits and is the flame shape better
> than the round  shape? Is there a part number for the bit you are talking
>  about?
> Thanks,
> Carl
>
> --- On Sun, 3/1/09,  tejasmed <_tejasmed@chili-tejasme_
(mailto:tejasmed@...) >  wrote:
>
> From: tejasmed <_tejasmed@chili-tejasme_ (mailto:tejasmed@...) >
>  Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: need info on setting up  shop
> To: _nativeflutewoodworknativeflutewoodwnat_
(mailto:nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com)
>  Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 12:55  PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  Steve:
>
> In regards to using a gouge for making flutes, I would  only recommend the
> Flexicut gouges.
> Many will differ with me,  but the brand is what I was taught to use by
> John
> Suttles and  the Fallen Branch Group.
> The power handle is just a wood handle that  receives the blades, but it
> allows you to purchase several blades to  interchange during crafting.
> I have a fairly concise how to over on  the Basic NAF site should you want
> to
> take a look. Plus on  this forum I have a few posted pictures of the tools
> I
> use  for the branch flutes in the files.
> I am one of a very few that use  the MasterCarver flex shaft with the
> Kutzall
> flame burr to  clear the bore of a split branch flute.
> I really do not like lathes  and routers because of their potential
> dangers,
> especially to  newbies or people not willing to learn safety from a
> seasoned
>  shopmaster.
>
> Selecting and using gouges gets down to personal  preference and personal
> skills. Also, it depends on how and who taught  you to carve.
> What works for me does not seem natural for others.  Personally, I use a
> Flexicut curved gouge that is 1/4 in wide. The  most ususeful also, is the
> 1/4 and the 1/2 in flat blade chisels in  the Flexicut blades. For all the
> rest, the Kutzall burrs and the  diamond files, along with the dremel drum
> sanders do the rest.
>  Personally, I use the gouge from side to side to chip out the bore, but  I
> only do the first 3 in on the TSH side. I finish the rest of the  flute and
> SAC with the Kutzall. The final shaping is done with the  other files and
> cutting tools.
> Mike Jones and others use a  slightly wider gouge and like to go down the
> grain through the bore  length. For me, doing that causes lots of grief
> with
> checking  and uneven bore shape. My bores are smooth and consistant and it
> only  takes me less than 3 hours to do a smooth neat job of both sides of a
>  flute ready to do the finishing touches on the sound mechanism before  glue
> up. It took me several months to learn the technique, but I keep  wondering
> why so many people keep beating up on themselves determined  to do it the
> old
> way and be proud of all their blisters and  frustrations.
> Of course, I do not sell my flutes, and each piece of  wood is a new
> adventure, which is the best part about branch  flutes.
> I really hope that the Fallen Branch guys get that DVD out  soon. It will
> probably be a great help to newbies. For those still  wanting to use
> routers
> and lathes, go for it. It is what you  learned to do best.
> I hope you find your own path and the tools that  fit your needs and style.
>
> Oh yes, about that wonder shop. They  forgot to mention the vertical
> rotating occillating spindle bench  sander. It is great for helping to
> shape up a branch flute  blank.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tejas Medicineman
> Donn  Shands
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  [Non-text portions of this message have been  removed]
>
>
>
>  ------------  ----  ----  -
>
> Yahoo!  Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>





**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps! (http://pr.a
twola.com/promoclk/100126575x1218822736x1201267884/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.free\
creditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID
%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jerry:

I absolutely agree with you about the lathes and cutters using gloves.
However, that does not leave out the use of safety push sticks and the
proper way to use them around routers.  Lathes, I leave to the experts to
teach the safety.

I advocate the wearing of the leather apron and gloves and safetyglasses for
most of the other tools.  For the more Darwin enclined,  WoodCrafters is
selling the kelvar glove for about 25 bucks each,  not a pair.  Great for
carvers.
I wear the heavy leather gloves for all the sanding tasks.  Sure has saved a
lot of skin.
Hair is a valid issue,  but  there are a lot of guys that wear loose long
sleeve shirts that just don't get it safety wise.

Getting sucked in is one issue,  getting exploded on is another serious
concern.
The leather apron and the full face shield worn on the head has saved a
bunch of hurt.  Using a spinning wire brush can cause a world of hurt when
those little bits stick into you. Picking them out of the leather apron is a
harsh reminder as to why I wore the protection in the first place.

I have mentioned this before, but I watched the plastic surgery results over
a year as a guy was  going through healing from a grinding wheel expolding
on him.  That is the other tool I will always use the apron and the full
face mask on.
Oh yes,  the other most dangerous tool in the kit is the Rotozip.
Especially if you use the cutoff disks with it. Don't be stupid, gear up
with the full armor.  Watch which way and on what the sparks are flying.
Think safety,  if you don't know how to use the tool,  get some trusted
craftsman to teach you the safe way.....FIRST.

Regards, and thanks for the reminder.

Tejas


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald Sandlin" <gsand@...>
To: <nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 7:59 PM
Subject: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: flute making equipment


>I have seen gloves recommended here several times. Unless you
> only do flutes by hand with gouges I would leave the gloves out
> of the shop. You only need to see and individual whose glove
> got caught in a spinning lathe or cutter to know why. I have
> seen guys with long hair get it caught in a cutter being turned
> with a 20 HP motor. Not a pretty sight. Some safty to think about.
> Jerry
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com, "Ellie Barbarash"
> <ebarbarash@...> wrote:
>>
>> Safety to add to the great ventilation system you would have set up:
>>
>>
>>
>> Multiple flexible  gloves, some nitrile, chemical resistant; some Kevlar
>>
>>
>>
>> A half face negative pressure respirator with escape filters, or
> dual HEPA
>> /)V filters;
>>
>> Or a PAPR (powered air purifying respirator) with dual HEPA/OV filters.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ellie
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Phil:

When you say sanding disks, do you mean the flat disks or the round drums?

I like to use the round fine dremel drum and run it down the bore to get the
lingering humps and bumps out.  Oh, that is the half bore......when the
flute is in two pieces to be accurate.


Another thing.....
After Mike taught me how to use the burning rods,  I finally tried it on a
branch flute.
Boy, talk about a difference.   I had no splinters on the inner bore, and
the time cleaning up the bore was almost zilch.  Use a stone cone in the
dremel to camfer the holes as needed also.

Tejas Medicineman
Donn Shands

Round drums about an inch long and various diameters.  Use a diameter  just
less than the half bore.  I use the foredom for the round drums  (bought at
rocklers) and its power and size makes an eaasier job of smothing  lumps and
bumps and making a smooth surface.  Having a large diameter  drum, near the size
of the half bore, helps keep smooth arcs.


In a message dated 3/1/2009 7:05:55 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
tejasmed@... writes:




Phil:

When you say sanding disks, do you mean the flat disks or the  round drums?

I like to use the round fine dremel drum and run it down  the bore to get the
lingering humps and bumps out. Oh, that is the half  bore......when the
flute is in two pieces to be accurate.

Another  thing.....
After Mike taught me how to use the burning rods, I finally  tried it on a
branch flute.
Boy, talk about a difference. I had no  splinters on the inner bore, and
the time cleaning up the bore was almost  zilch. Use a stone cone in the
dremel to camfer the holes as needed  also.

Tejas Medicineman
Donn Shands





**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1218822736x1201267884/aol?redir=http:%2\
F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID
%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Donn,
Thanks for the info. I do have a foredom tool. I need to get a 1/4" handpiece. I
have the Wood Carvers Supply book and marked the kutzall burr you said to use.
Thanks,
Carl

--- On Sun, 3/1/09, tejasmed <tejasmed@...> wrote:

From: tejasmed <tejasmed@...>
Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: Kutzall bits
To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 9:31 PM






Carl:

Check www.woodcarverssupp ly.com

They will list the Kutzall burrs
The burrs come in black, (super course) silver, course, and the gold,
fine.

The part that I use more than any of the others is the flame burr. It will
be listed as their Q 265098 Silver
Be careful as there are three sizes of the burr, a 1/4 , and 1/2 and 3/4
head.
The general shaping tool is the 1/2 in head and that is what I prefer to
use.
Be aware that while most individuals do not have anything more powerful than
a standard dremel, the Kutzall required to do bore work, will not work as
the bit required has a 1/4 in shank.
Granted you can buy burrs with 1/8 shanks, but the time consumed and the
machines burned up are not worth it.
The Master Carver and the Foredom have handles that take the 1/4 in shank,
have the HP to make it work, and the speed needed for smooth cutting.
I have tried the ball burrs, and the ball ended burrs, for some reason,
the flame allows me better control and the ability to get to tight corners
especially when pre dressing the inner TSH and SAC areas. That point makes
a big difference. I finish that area with exacto, diamond files, and dremel
with small carbide and diamond burrs.
When the motor set came, they sent me the green Saburkut bit instead of the
standard Kutzall silver bit. It is also made by Kutzall.
The teeth on the green Saburkut are spaced evenly and are supposed to be
less clogging.
Maybe so if you were using wet or resinous wood. It just did not act right
for me, and it was like night and day to use the silver and gold Kutzall.
Using the silver against the gold is a learned issue. The silver is fairly
universal and will still leave a fairly smooth surface on the bore. The gold
will leave a nice smooth surface.
However, time and place for each. On real hard woods, like pecan, use the
silver. On pulpy woods, use the gold.
Using a 1/4 Kutzall is not an evening project of leisurely daintily holding
your handle in one hand and detailing on a piece of wood.
You have to have a wood holding device to free up two hands, wear gloves,
and eye protection, and there is absolutely no way to excape using a rubber
respirator mask with filters. (less than 25 bucks off Amazon. )
Putting a vacc hose up next to the work area helps a lot too.
The trick to the whole thing is to get the burr up to high speed. Low speed
will allow the burr to grab and jump and not only will it scare the heck out
of you, but it is easy to ruin a piece being worked on. That bit has to be
up to speed at all times it is near or on that wood. Learn to use the foot
pedal properly, it also serves as a safety device.
For those of the group that use lathes and routers, there is not much use
for the Kutzall, for those of us that have crooked branches, it is a great
tool. While the traditionalist cry foul, Suttles has wryly said that if
the old timers had the tools like we have now, there would have been a lot
more happy braves with courting flutes.

Good luck, here to help more if needed.

Donn Shands
Tejas Medicineman

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Pettit" <cedarfluteman@ yahoo.com>
To: <nativeflutewoodwork ing@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: need info on setting up shop

> Donn,
> Do you recomend the real coarse kutzall bits and is the flame shape better
> than the round shape? Is there a part number for the bit you are talking
> about?
> Thanks,
> Carl
>
> --- On Sun, 3/1/09, tejasmed <tejasmed@chili- usa.com> wrote:
>
> From: tejasmed <tejasmed@chili- usa.com>
> Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: need info on setting up shop
> To: nativeflutewoodwork ing@yahoogroups. com
> Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 12:55 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Steve:
>
> In regards to using a gouge for making flutes, I would only recommend the
> Flexicut gouges.
> Many will differ with me, but the brand is what I was taught to use by
> John
> Suttles and the Fallen Branch Group.
> The power handle is just a wood handle that receives the blades, but it
> allows you to purchase several blades to interchange during crafting.
> I have a fairly concise how to over on the Basic NAF site should you want
> to
> take a look. Plus on this forum I have a few posted pictures of the tools
> I
> use for the branch flutes in the files.
> I am one of a very few that use the MasterCarver flex shaft with the
> Kutzall
> flame burr to clear the bore of a split branch flute.
> I really do not like lathes and routers because of their potential
> dangers,
> especially to newbies or people not willing to learn safety from a
> seasoned
> shopmaster.
>
> Selecting and using gouges gets down to personal preference and personal
> skills. Also, it depends on how and who taught you to carve.
> What works for me does not seem natural for others. Personally, I use a
> Flexicut curved gouge that is 1/4 in wide. The most ususeful also, is the
> 1/4 and the 1/2 in flat blade chisels in the Flexicut blades. For all the
> rest, the Kutzall burrs and the diamond files, along with the dremel drum
> sanders do the rest.
> Personally, I use the gouge from side to side to chip out the bore, but I
> only do the first 3 in on the TSH side. I finish the rest of the flute and
> SAC with the Kutzall. The final shaping is done with the other files and
> cutting tools.
> Mike Jones and others use a slightly wider gouge and like to go down the
> grain through the bore length. For me, doing that causes lots of grief
> with
> checking and uneven bore shape. My bores are smooth and consistant and it
> only takes me less than 3 hours to do a smooth neat job of both sides of a
> flute ready to do the finishing touches on the sound mechanism before glue
> up. It took me several months to learn the technique, but I keep wondering
> why so many people keep beating up on themselves determined to do it the
> old
> way and be proud of all their blisters and frustrations.
> Of course, I do not sell my flutes, and each piece of wood is a new
> adventure, which is the best part about branch flutes.
> I really hope that the Fallen Branch guys get that DVD out soon. It will
> probably be a great help to newbies. For those still wanting to use
> routers
> and lathes, go for it. It is what you learned to do best.
> I hope you find your own path and the tools that fit your needs and style.
>
> Oh yes, about that wonder shop. They forgot to mention the vertical
> rotating occillating spindle bench sander. It is great for helping to
> shape up a branch flute blank.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tejas Medicineman
> Donn Shands
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I like that Phil.....

Use a drum that is near the size of the half bore.....

Will have to put that in the next how to.

I saw those drums over at the Wood Crafters store, but had to put them on
the not too critical wish list for now.  I think that Harbor freight has a
good set also,  and may wait until I get another 20% off coupon.

I had forgotten to mention that sometimes you can get some burrs at E bay,
but lately, their store shelves are slim pickings.  For a while there the
selection was fair.
Something I am sorta interested in is the different sizes of drum mandrels
and the carbide Kutzall sleeves that go on them. (same thing as the sanding
sleeves.)   There are times when I get a piece of wood that requires a lot
of exterior shaping and a small burr is a disaster for trying to level wide
surfaces.

Mike and I cut a large cedar log down to size with a chainsaw, and cut flute
blanks from it this weekend.
I got frustrated trying to use a plane, and a spoke shave, and a draw knife,
and  went over to the table belt sander and put on a 35 grit belt and went
after the wood.   I  rough finished three blanks and did a bit more
smoothing and shaping with the occillating spindle sander,  then dipped the
blanks in the shellac solution to seal for the time being.
35 grit is mean stuff,  but it got the job done.
For some reason, all the blanks come out slightly oblong in the shape of the
length.  Unlike the lathe,  the sanders in my shop do not have "round" in
their vocabulary or bag of tricks..:-)
When the flute is branch made, the flute outer surface will mostly turn out
nice and smooth.  I try to use the natural surface as much as possible.
When cut from a log,  the sanding process winds up being a rustic carved
look.  Frankly, I think it just adds character.  I really think the
mechanics and the sound are more important than a car finished rocket.
Talk about cedar sawdust.  I wore that respirator all afternoon, and had two
shop vacs going.

Later,

Donn Shands
Tejas Medicineman

Hi Donn,

With the burning rods:  Do you use a drilled pilot hole to prep the location?
Or, do you start out with a small burning rod?  Or, just start with the same rod
you end up with?  I am a little unclear on this.

Thanks, David




________________________________
From: tejasmed <tejasmed@...>
To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 1, 2009 10:05:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: Kutzall bits


Phil:

When you say sanding disks, do you mean the flat disks or the round drums?

I like to use the round fine dremel drum and run it down the bore to get the
lingering humps and bumps out.  Oh, that is the half bore......when the
flute is in two pieces to be accurate.

Another thing.....
After Mike taught me how to use the burning rods,  I finally tried it on a
branch flute.
Boy, talk about a difference.   I had no splinters on the inner bore, and
the time cleaning up the bore was almost zilch.  Use a stone cone in the
dremel to camfer the holes as needed also.

Tejas Medicineman
Donn Shands




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I start with a 3/16 or 1/8" rod and then gradually use larger rods until I am
somewhat close then do the rest of the fine tuning with the orange bullet shaped
dremel stone. Before the hole is completely in tune I also use a curved
(concave) carving exacto blade to bevel the inside edge of the hole.

Mike Jones



----- Original Message ----
From: David Allen <whiteoakart@...>
To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 7:25:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: Kutzall bits

Hi Donn,

With the burning rods:  Do you use a drilled pilot hole to prep the location?
Or, do you start out with a small burning rod?  Or, just start with the same rod
you end up with?  I am a little unclear on this.

Thanks, David




________________________________
From: tejasmed <tejasmed@...>
To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 1, 2009 10:05:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Native Flute Woodworking] Re: Kutzall bits


Phil:

When you say sanding disks, do you mean the flat disks or the round drums?

I like to use the round fine dremel drum and run it down the bore to get the
lingering humps and bumps out.  Oh, that is the half bore......when the
flute is in two pieces to be accurate.

Another thing.....
After Mike taught me how to use the burning rods,  I finally tried it on a
branch flute.
Boy, talk about a difference.  I had no splinters on the inner bore, and
the time cleaning up the bore was almost zilch.  Use a stone cone in the
dremel to camfer the holes as needed also.

Tejas Medicineman
Donn Shands


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Thank you ALL so much for the suggestions.  I have not been able to
respond to all of them, but I am taking everyones sage advice and
working with the fairy godmother.

I have a question about lumber.  Someone mentioned Rockler as a
source for wood.  I need to find a resource for a wide variety of
block cut lumber.....I looked at Rocker's site, but do you purchase
the "turning blocks" or how do you order lumber that is in block form
without ordering the whole tree?

So,  I have used Walnut, Cherry, Spalted Maple, Maple, Willow,
mahogany, cedar, and boxwood.......what others would everyone
recommend?  I want to stay away from woods that carry high
respiratory toxicity.  I HATE working with cedar because it is so
fragile.  My favorite thus far has been cherry.

So this is my last request and I need a list ASAP (like yesterday).
Please share sources and favorite woods to work with.  I love
beautiful grain! I agree with the woods you taste.....like Spanish
Cedar....it is gorgeous, but tastes terrible when you play it,
regardless of how much you sand and seal.

THANKS EVERYONE!!!!!  Stay tuned!

Terri

This is my experience carving totems, not working the wood as flutes.

I like poplar, even if it is rather common. I look for any boards that are
spalted or with interesting color figure when ever I go to Home Depot or Lowes.

I am not sure what you mean by "blocks" of wood

I like Cypress, good colors and works well. Walnut, especially, air dried rather
than kiln dried, there is more color. Cherry is a good favorite.

Mike


 


----- Original Message ----
From: "cerdaclan@..." <cerdaclan@...>
To: nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 9:54:33 AM
Subject: [Native Flute Woodworking] Wood shop Lumber question

Thank you ALL so much for the suggestions.  I have not been able to
respond to all of them, but I am taking everyones sage advice and
working with the fairy godmother.

I have a question about lumber.  Someone mentioned Rockler as a
source for wood.  I need to find a resource for a wide variety of
block cut lumber.....I looked at Rocker's site, but do you purchase
the "turning blocks" or how do you order lumber that is in block form
without ordering the whole tree?

So,  I have used Walnut, Cherry, Spalted Maple, Maple, Willow,
mahogany, cedar, and boxwood.......what others would everyone
recommend?  I want to stay away from woods that carry high
respiratory toxicity.  I HATE working with cedar because it is so
fragile.  My favorite thus far has been cherry.

So this is my last request and I need a list ASAP (like yesterday). 
Please share sources and favorite woods to work with.  I love
beautiful grain! I agree with the woods you taste.....like Spanish
Cedar....it is gorgeous, but tastes terrible when you play it,
regardless of how much you sand and seal.

THANKS EVERYONE!!!!!  Stay tuned!

Terri



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Any time I need a few pieces of wood, I go to the lumber yard and they cut
it to whatever size I want.   I'll be going there as soon as the snow stops
flying the the temperature gets warm enough to work outside.  Like in the
summer.   LOL


Lucille

----- Original Message -----
From: <cerdaclan@...>
To: <nativeflutewoodworking@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 10:54
Subject: [Native Flute Woodworking] Wood shop Lumber question


> Thank you ALL so much for the suggestions.  I have not been able to
> respond to all of them, but I am taking everyones sage advice and
> working with the fairy godmother.
>
> I have a question about lumber.  Someone mentioned Rockler as a
> source for wood.  I need to find a resource for a wide variety of
> block cut lumber.....I looked at Rocker's site, but do you purchase
> the "turning blocks" or how do you order lumber that is in block form
> without ordering the whole tree?
>
> So,  I have used Walnut, Cherry, Spalted Maple, Maple, Willow,
> mahogany, cedar, and boxwood.......what others would everyone
> recommend?  I want to stay away from woods that carry high
> respiratory toxicity.  I HATE working with cedar because it is so
> fragile.  My favorite thus far has been cherry.
>
> So this is my last request and I need a list ASAP (like yesterday).
> Please share sources and favorite woods to work with.  I love
> beautiful grain! I agree with the woods you taste.....like Spanish
> Cedar....it is gorgeous, but tastes terrible when you play it,
> regardless of how much you sand and seal.
>
> THANKS EVERYONE!!!!!  Stay tuned!
>
> Terri
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>