Hi there

I have noooo idea about the unfermented sugar thing etc.

I brew spirit using 19Kilos  of dextrose (sugar) and top up fermenter to 50
L with water. Then I add some still sprits turbo extra yeast (from
http://www.stillspirits.com/) then once fermented (when it stops bubbling
after about 1-2 weeks) I run it through there 5L reflux still.. The alcohol
comes out crystal clear.. Then I carbon filter it using there filter
system.. Then its ready to flavour and drink!  Check out there site.. They
have lots of info.

Also.. its not legal to make it here either!

dave
----- Original Message -----
From: <maurice161gbr@...>
To: <new_distillers@egroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 10:06 AM
Subject: [new_distillers] NEW BOY INTRO


> THANKS DAVID FOR YOUR PROMPT REPLY...ILL TRY YOUR SUGGESTIONS NEXT
> TIME I RUN.....I NEVER INTRODUCED MYSELF PROPERLY.SO ILL GIVE YOU A
> RUN DOWN MY NAME IS MAURICE DOHERTY AND I HAIL FROM DONEGAL IN
> IRELAND..IVE BEEN EXPERIMENTING WITH DISTILLING FOR FIFTEEN YEARS.BUT
> HAVE NOT PRODUCED A FIRST CLASS PRODUCT YET ..DISTILLING IN IRELAND
> IS ILLEGAL...IF YOU DONT PAY THE TAX..SO IT IS A FAIRLY CLANDESTINE
> AFFAIR THE LAW WILL TURN A BLIND EYE TO IT IF YOUR NOT SELLING IT OR
> GIVING IT TO THE LOCAL POPULATION AND SENDING THEM BONKERS WITH
> IT.....ILL ASK ONE QUESTION BEFORE I SIGN OFF...DOES UNFERMENTED
> SUGAR IN THE WASH GIVE THE FINAL SPIRIT A BURNT TASTE.OR IS MY HEAT
> SOURCE..A PLUMBERS BLOWLAMP..TOO CONCENTRATED A HEAT ON THE BOTTOM OF
> THE STILL......MAURICE.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
>
>

sorry for the delay in responding to your replies folks.I was in
bonny scotland for a holiday ..thanks the two davids for your
answers...its the county dave not the town.the inishowen peninsula to
be a bit more precise.let me now when your sending the guards so i
can hide my equipment ha ha.....what size of heating element would be
suitable for a still of 25lt capacity also the potentiometer where
would one obtain one as any heater controls i come across work with a
thermostat and control is poor.i had a setup once where i heated the
wash to boiling with an electric kettle element then took over with
the blowlamp for the control the gas gave.i found that the element of
the heater wore away in no time..would a stainless steel element be
preferable..did anybody ever try this one when distilling put a
teaspoonful of ordinary table salt into the wash ..the spirit comes
over much better..also butter helps as well about two or three ounces
to 25lt..but it is messy and makes the still a chore to
clean..........maurice.

heres one kieran..this is a recipe from county fermanagh.....7lb of
bakers yeast.......3 stone of brown sugar..........4lb of
treacle......1lb of hops...steep ingredients in 3 gallons of lukewarm
water at the bottom of a 40 gallon barrel after steeping fill barrel
to three quarter full with cold spring water leave in a cool place to
settle..after several weeks transfer to your still..this was taken
from a book called ; in praise of poteen. ive never tried it myself.
let me know how it turns out..maurice

hello folks,...I once found a recipe for making ethanol using a
chemical called calgon it was used for softening the water in your
washing machine.....its chemical name is sodium hexa meta phosphate.I
think....anyway the wash was very sucessful it fermented rapidly from
1068sg to 0990 with plenty of activity in the fermenter and stopped
fairly suddenly,unlike others that would tick on for ages.the spirit
that was produced tasted healthy and did not give any hangovers
except for a thirst the next day..anyway it was taken off the market
here for environmental reasons.i think too much phosphate in the
rivers there is something else going under the name calgon now..does
anyone know anything about this chemical..is it safe for beverage
alcohol?..if so it would be good for thin wash setups as the wash
cleared well.....maurice.

Thanks Maurice.

I'll keep you posted.

Kieran

-----Original Message-----
From:   maurice161gbr@... [SMTP:maurice161gbr@...]
Sent:   Sunday, September 03, 2000 4:28 PM
To:     new_distillers@egroups.com
Subject:        [new_distillers] poteen recipe

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heres one kieran..this is a recipe from county fermanagh.....7lb of
bakers yeast.......3 stone of brown sugar..........4lb of
treacle......1lb of hops...steep ingredients in 3 gallons of lukewarm
water at the bottom of a 40 gallon barrel after steeping fill barrel
to three quarter full with cold spring water leave in a cool place to
settle..after several weeks transfer to your still..this was taken
from a book called ; in praise of poteen. ive never tried it myself. 
let me know how it turns out..maurice




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com

been reading and ready to try distilling. i just received my new
still, a "Disti". no help at all came with it, ie, booklet. my
question is cooling. should i cool the condener first, or the tower?
start with the top or bottom inlet?
just not sure how to route the tubing for cooling it the right way.
thanks for any and all help, brian

>been reading and ready to try distilling. i just received my new
>still, a "Disti". no help at all came with it, ie, booklet. my
>question is cooling. should i cool the condener first, or the tower?
>start with the top or bottom inlet?
>just not sure how to route the tubing for cooling it the right way.
>thanks for any and all help, brian

Brian,

Hook it up so the coldest water is entering at the lowest point on the
condensor, then connect the condensor outlet to the top one of the tower,
then finally the warmest water exiting from low down on the tower.

see http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller/image/labmaster_still.gif for a
photo of it(its a labmaster still, but the same principle applies)

The reason for this is that you want to ensure that ALL the vapour coming
out the condensor is condensed.  Having the coldest contact at the outlet
of the condensor gives the best chance of this happening.

If you want some instructions that are specific to your still, see the Home
Distilling Handbook  http://partyman.se/Engelsk/default.htm  from Gert
Strand (Partyman) for US$5.  The Labmaster & Desti stills are much the same
thing.

Best of sucess with your still.


Tony
http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller

thank you for the info, very helpful. i took your
advice and ordered the on-line book for Strand, also
very helpful. i have not been able to fined "yeast
nutrients" locally. what, in your opinion, can i use
,"from the store". potatos, apples, oranges, etc.? is
one better then another? also read a can of tomato
paste is good to add also. as long as the yeast has
something to live on, should work, right? i'm
thinking, maybe wrong(won't be the first time)a
combination of a couple differant friuts and veggies
will give the yeast  a larger menu to live off of.
sound right? thanks again for the info,  brian
--- Tony & Elle Ackland
<Tony.Ackland@...> wrote:
>
> >been reading and ready to try distilling. i just
> received my new
> >still, a "Disti". no help at all came with it, ie,
> booklet. my
> >question is cooling. should i cool the condener
> first, or the tower?
> >start with the top or bottom inlet?
> >just not sure how to route the tubing for cooling
> it the right way.
> >thanks for any and all help, brian
>
> Brian,
>
> Hook it up so the coldest water is entering at the
> lowest point on the
> condensor, then connect the condensor outlet to the
> top one of the tower,
> then finally the warmest water exiting from low down
> on the tower.
>
> see
>
http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller/image/labmaster_still.gif
> for a
> photo of it(its a labmaster still, but the same
> principle applies)
>
> The reason for this is that you want to ensure that
> ALL the vapour coming
> out the condensor is condensed.  Having the coldest
> contact at the outlet
> of the condensor gives the best chance of this
> happening.
>
> If you want some instructions that are specific to
> your still, see the Home
> Distilling Handbook
> http://partyman.se/Engelsk/default.htm  from Gert
> Strand (Partyman) for US$5.  The Labmaster & Desti
> stills are much the same
> thing.
>
> Best of sucess with your still.
>
>
> Tony
> http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller
>


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Hey Brian
I use molasses as a nutrient. It works very well and the colour comes out
when you distil.
Cheers,
Katherine
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> i have not been able to fined "yeast
> nutrients" locally. what, in your opinion, can i use
> ,"from the store"

Brian,

Nutrients also need to be present. Yeast cells require phosphorus, nitrogen
and potassium, as well as amino acids and vitamins, for metabolic
processes. The extent to how much is required depends on the feedstock
being used. The nitrogen requirement may be supplied in the form of amino
acids or ammonia, ammonium salts or urea. If the solids are separated from
the sugar solution prior to fermentation (or say starting only with sugar)
the bulk of the protein will be removed, and hence a potential nitrogen
source lost. Ammonia or ammonium salts are the preferred source of of
additional nitrogen if its needed, however avoid using excessive amounts
because it can kill the yeast. Both nitrogen and phosphorus can be supplied
by ammonium phosphate (commonly available as a fertilizer). Many
fermentations will proceed satisfactorly without vitamin suppliments bec
ause the fermentation medium contains sufficient of these nutrients,
however in most cases, cell growth is enhanced when B-vitamins are added.

One recipe for nutrient ale salts is
58 g sodium chloride (common table salt)
170 g citric acid
7 g ammonium sulphate
6 g magnesium sulphate
2.5 g grape tannin
This mixture is hygroscopic (attracts water), so keep it in a cool dry
place with a good lid.
The "Great New Zealand Home Wine Making Book" suggests to ... "buy some
ammonium sulphate or ammonium phosphate, and some pottassium phosphate or
potassium sulphate and add 2g (1/2 teaspoon) of each to every 4.5 L.
Another valuable addition is vitamin B1. You can buy these as tiny 3
milligram tablets from your local chemist or pharmacy and add one of these
each 4.5 L" ...
Tony
http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller



.

Hi

My name is Steve and im also new to distilling, ive
been making beer for a few years and i thought it was
time to step up a level.

Ive been reading what i can on distilling and i come
across some conflicting information and i was
wondering if any one can help. I purchased a cheap 5
litre still to start off with and in the directions it
said not to let the column temperature go above 92
degrees. Im confused because im also building a larger
better quality still and in the directions for that
still it says don't let the temperature in the column
go over 80 degrees. Can some tell me which is correct
or is there different temperatures for different
stills. I was under the impression that different
temperatures in the column produce different
substances from the wash ( methanol, propanol ect).
What should the correct temperature be ?

Any advise would be appreciated.

Thanks Guys and Gals



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hi Steve
For a still with a reflux column you shouldn't let the tempurature go
above 80 because you will start to get propanol at 82. i am guessing
the other still you where refering to was a pot still which would
explain why they say 90 because pot still's don't get much separation
so you have to increase the tempurature to get adiquate amounts of
distillate.

in case you wanted to know the boiling points of several liquids
which will be in the wash are as follows
methanol 67
ethanol 78
propanol 82

so assuming that this new still has a reflux column which will
separate these different substances quite well. You should have to
top of the column at 70 and throw all of that stuff away because it
will be mostly methanol. After this run the still at 79 or 80 untill
all of the ethyl alcohol (the good stuff) is bottled.

you should be able to tell when all of the alcohol is gone because
the temperature will jump up several degrees.
i hope i have been some help.
from scott

thanks again tony. i'm sure all my dumb questions have
been asked and anwsered a dozen time on here. hope to
wipe up a mash this week and see what happens. thanks
again, brian
--- Tony & Elle Ackland
<Tony.Ackland@...> wrote:
>
> > i have not been able to fined "yeast
> > nutrients" locally. what, in your opinion, can i
> use
> > ,"from the store"
>
> Brian,
>
> Nutrients also need to be present. Yeast cells
> require phosphorus, nitrogen
> and potassium, as well as amino acids and vitamins,
> for metabolic
> processes. The extent to how much is required
> depends on the feedstock
> being used. The nitrogen requirement may be supplied
> in the form of amino
> acids or ammonia, ammonium salts or urea. If the
> solids are separated from
> the sugar solution prior to fermentation (or say
> starting only with sugar)
> the bulk of the protein will be removed, and hence a
> potential nitrogen
> source lost. Ammonia or ammonium salts are the
> preferred source of of
> additional nitrogen if its needed, however avoid
> using excessive amounts
> because it can kill the yeast. Both nitrogen and
> phosphorus can be supplied
> by ammonium phosphate (commonly available as a
> fertilizer). Many
> fermentations will proceed satisfactorly without
> vitamin suppliments bec
> ause the fermentation medium contains sufficient of
> these nutrients,
> however in most cases, cell growth is enhanced when
> B-vitamins are added.
>
> One recipe for nutrient ale salts is
> 58 g sodium chloride (common table salt)
> 170 g citric acid
> 7 g ammonium sulphate
> 6 g magnesium sulphate
> 2.5 g grape tannin
> This mixture is hygroscopic (attracts water), so
> keep it in a cool dry
> place with a good lid.
> The "Great New Zealand Home Wine Making Book"
> suggests to ... "buy some
> ammonium sulphate or ammonium phosphate, and some
> pottassium phosphate or
> potassium sulphate and add 2g (1/2 teaspoon) of each
> to every 4.5 L.
> Another valuable addition is vitamin B1. You can buy
> these as tiny 3
> milligram tablets from your local chemist or
> pharmacy and add one of these
> each 4.5 L" ...
> Tony
> http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller
>
>
>
> .
>


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I am in the U.S. and have had to try to make a still on the sly, So
far the only product that I can get to come out of my (extremely)
modest pot still is quite foul smelling and I am sure nasty tasting.
I used sugar water and cracked corn with bakers rapid rise yeast in
an attempt
to make whiskey.  Has anybody got any help for me? I am already
making a MUCH better still and just need some good ideas for liquor.
Thanks all!!

I've just been going through some rec.crafts.brewing posts, and found that I
may have been put wrong about using urea as a possible yeast nutrient.  I'll
try and dig around a little more to substantiate the claim that its harmful
(I've never heard of ethyl carbamates before).

Tony

*********  SNIP **************
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:37:10 -0400
From: "Pannicke, Glen A." <glen_pannicke@...>
Subject: Urea

>Whilst in an investigational study involving yeast nutrients, ...
<snip>
>     "Please inform this brewer that urea based products are banned
>throughout most of the World for beverage alcohol.
>They produce ethyl carbamates which are CARCINOGENIC.

***********  SNIP  ***********


to which a bit later this was the reply re what various nutrients might
contain (eg is there any urea in them ?)


***********  SNIP  ***********

Subject: Yeast Nutrient Composition
From: Mark Evenson <wine-hop@...>
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 13:04:56 -0800

For the person with the question on chemical composition of yeast
nutrient: Three of the largest homebrew/winemaking wholesale suppliers
use varying formulas in their "house brand".  Your local homebrew shop
should be able to identify their source (especially if you're willing to
share your info).

L.D. Carlson (Kent, OH) food-grade urea and diammonium phosphate; white
in color with fairly large, rounded granules

G.W. Kent (Ann Arbor, MI) these folks have two types
  - -"Nutrient" diammonium phosphate; white, small crystals similar in size
to sugar crystals (though more long than square)
  - -"Energizer" diammonium phosphate, yeast hulls, magnesium sulfate,
thiamine, folic acid, niacin, calcium pantothenate; small tan grains
with some white particles visible. I believe this is from Lalvin.

Crosby & Baker (Westmort, MA) Fermax(TM) contains diammonium phosphate,
dipotassium phosphate, magnesium sulfate, autolyzed yeast.

also DLB Vineyards (Westlake, OH) diammonium phosphate; white grains.

Sorry for the delay in responding;  I wanted to check with the suppliers
listed above to get official permission to post this info.  Nobody said
"no" although if you want more detailed info (i.e., what percentage of
each chemical) you should contact your local homebrew shop.

To support one of my comments of 11-22-97, I haven't found yeast
nutrient to be helpful in my fermentations when pitching *large*
quantities of yeast (5 gr dried wine yeast/gallon). My starting SG
ranges from 1.090 to 1.100, and ferments to dryness (0.996 to 1.002) in
about 2 1/2 to 3 weeks. When I did use 1 tsp nutrient in a 6 gal batch
pitching 5 gr yeast/gallon, fermentation time was still 3 weeks, and
left a strong chemical flavor (metallic, to my tastebuds). I'd like to
stress that I've not done side-by-side tests with yeast hulls or bee
pollen, so I don't know how these behave. After the "test batch" came up
with such a strong flavor of nutrient, I swore off nutrient entirely...
Anyway, that's my nickel's worth.

Thanks for providing the forum for discussion!

Anne T c/o wine-hop@...

Urea as in URINE.... wow must be some strong hooch. seems like regular yeasts
are a better way to go although it is interesting.


"Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)" wrote:

> I've just been going through some rec.crafts.brewing posts, and found that I
> may have been put wrong about using urea as a possible yeast nutrient.  I'll
> try and dig around a little more to substantiate the claim that its harmful
> (I've never heard of ethyl carbamates before).

Ok, I've found a bit more out about the effect of Urea (a fertilizer, not
urine ... but there is some urea in urine ....).  See :

http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~frf/fc0488ur.html
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/CONSUMER/CON00193.html

In summary ... if you use urea as a yeast nutrient, it can end up in
producing some urethane (also known as ethyl carbamate), which in certain
concentrations can cause cancer.  The recommended limit for urethane is
about 125 ppb (parts per billion); typically it is present in levels like
that.  Many US producers are therefore volunterily trying to reduce the
amount present, either by not adding urea as a fertilizer to the grain
crops, not using it as a yeast nutrient, and finding better strains of
yeast that can deal to it.  So all in all, probably best to avoid using
urea as a nutrient for drinking alcohol.

From the first link ...
Some factors influencing urethane production in alcoholic beverages, such
as the weather, are beyond human control. Others, however, can be modified.
For instance, some wine makers used to add a substance called urea to
stimulate fermentation. However, when urea combines with the alcohol
produced during fermentation, it can produce urethane. Now all the major
U.S. wineries that had used urea have eliminated it from the manufacturing
process. Similarly, manufacturers are experimenting with different baking
conditions for sherry to try to reduce levels of urethane. (Sherry is baked
to enhance its flavor.) And bourbon manufacturers have found that modifying
the distillation process can result in lower levels of urethane by removing
more of the chemical during distillation
Among the more widely marketed distilled spirits tested by the agencies
(and by industry), bourbons generally contained the highest levels of
urethane. Many bourbons contained up to several hundred parts per billion
(ppb). According to Curtis Coker of the division of regulatory guidance in
the Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition, "It appears that the
distillation conditions, such as temperature. needed to produce the
characteristic flavor of bourbons result in levels of urethane
significantly higher than those found in some other distilled spirits, such
as vodka, which are distilled under significantly different conditions."
Vodka and gin have shown negligible amounts, if any, of urethane. Levels of
the chemical in plum and cherry brandies varied from 200 to 12,000 ppb;
dessert wines, such as cream sherries, contained from less than 4 ppb to
several hundred ppb; and table wines had levels generally from zero to 25
ppb.

Ibo,


It could be a number of things.
1) Was it a good fermentation - did you keep the temperature constant at
around 20C (68F), did it bubble strongly for a couple of days. Did it taste
ok when it was finished (should be agreeable, not nasty (infection?) or too
sweet (unfermented sugars present).  Did you happen to measure the specific
gravity of it before & after fermentation ?

If the fermentation didn't go well, then little point in progressing.
  Gotta have the alcohol there before you can distil it.

2)When you transfered it into the still, were you carefull not to get too
much of the sediment/yeast carried over into it  (this will burst when
heated and give a bad smell)

3) The temperature you want to measure is the vapour temperature.  For a
pot still, this will get up to around 90C (194F) when running.

4)Did you stop collecting the distillate once the tails started coming over
?  If you collect these, it'll ruin what you've got.  Read  the
http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller/dtw.htm page carefully & a couple
of times.

5) How much did you start with ?  How much distillate did you collect ?

6) Don't throw anything away yet - thats the beauty of distilling - you can
generally redistill any mistakes and turn them honest.

Tony



-----Original Message-----
From: Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS) [SMTP:Tony.Ackland@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 9:08 AM
To: ackland@...
Subject: [new_distillers] newbie



> ----------
> From:  ibo_caro_1@...[SMTP:IBO_CARO_1@...]
> Sent:  Wednesday, September 27, 2000 9:07:39 AM
> To:  new_distillers@egroups.com
> Subject:  [new_distillers] newbie
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>
I am in the U.S. and have had to try to make a still on the sly, So
far the only product that I can get to come out of my (extremely)
modest pot still is quite foul smelling and I am sure nasty tasting.
I used sugar water and cracked corn with bakers rapid rise yeast in
an attempt
to make whiskey.  Has anybody got any help for me? I am already
making a MUCH better still and just need some good ideas for liquor.
Thanks all!!



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com

Well I didn't know a whole lot when I started the ferment...It stayed
around 80-85 F  and it really smelled kind of like sweet beer through
the ferment time but knowing so little, I didn't know exactly how to
prepare my corn for a good mash and I still have a few cloudy areas
about it.  It was probably not fermented long enough and I didn't
siphon it well at all (lots of sediment)  And I had real limited
ability to take temperature readings.  Don't worry I am going to keep
on trying and with you  and this group on my side I am sure to get it
right soon.  Thank you
Ian

I've had a couple of requests of being able to download a copy of my site for
offline perusal.  So you now can (and its free, as always).

see http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller/download.htm

cheers,

Tony

2 cheers for BP :-(


> FRENCH AID FOR BIOFUELS RULED ILLEGAL
>
> PARIS, France, September 28, 2000 (ENS) - A French program to boost the
> biofuels sector through reduced excise duty on agriculturally derived
> bioethanol
> for gasoline additives has been dealt a blow by the European Court of
> Justice.
>
> For full text and graphics visit:
> http://ens-news.com/ens/sep2000/2000L-09-28-05.html
>
> --
> Steve Spence
> Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
> http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm
>
> Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com
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> sspence@...
> (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax
> We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors,
> we borrow it from our children.
> --

Hi  my name is Quvii and I have been looking into making a reflux
tower still.   On stillmakers page the design shows where to hook up
the water lines but there isnt any mention of what is used to pump
the water through.  Do I just hook it to a house tap or should I have
a separate tank with its own pump?

Quvii, i am very new to distilling, still waiting for
my first run to be ready. but i am going to use a
small  submersable pump from my saltwater reef aquaium
to circulate the water. these pumps are cheap from pet
stores, or cheaper from the "net". $50(US) and less.
brian
--- sweetquvii@... wrote:
> Hi  my name is Quvii and I have been looking into
> making a reflux
> tower still.   On stillmakers page the design shows
> where to hook up
> the water lines but there isnt any mention of what
> is used to pump
> the water through.  Do I just hook it to a house tap
> or should I have
> a separate tank with its own pump?
>
>


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Quvii
	 I originally used mains water but found that as the pressure varied
during the run the flow rate of cooling water varied and this would affect
the output stability and quality and as the mains pressure in my area is
above 100 psi it was very difficult to set a low flow rate and not destroy
tape seats.  What I did was to install a 20 litre header tank fitted with a
toilet bowl float switch (20 litre plastic water container fitted with
fluidmaster float switch in shed rafters)connected to the mains.  I used the
output socket on the 20 litre container to supply water to my still and this
provided a stable low pressure supply that could be easily controlled at low
flow rates with greatly improved the stability.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: sweetquvii@... [SMTP:sweetquvii@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, 4 October 2000 04:38 am
> To: new_distillers@egroups.com
> Subject: [new_distillers] cooling design
>
> Hi  my name is Quvii and I have been looking into making a reflux
> tower still.   On stillmakers page the design shows where to hook up
> the water lines but there isnt any mention of what is used to pump
> the water through.  Do I just hook it to a house tap or should I have
> a separate tank with its own pump?
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> new_distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
>

Usually, if on "town supply", you'd just hook up the cooling water to a
regular tap.

If however you're in the country, and tank/well water is scarce, you can
circulate it from a tank.  If doing this though, you need a fair amount of
water in the circuit - probably like 400L.  I had problems when doing it out
of a 200L supply as the water heated up too much over time.  Some people get
around this by freezing a couple of 2L PET bottles full of water, and using
these to help cool the supply.  If running off tank water, it can be as
simple as just making sure you return the water to the main house tank.

Tony

New Distillers FAQ
******************************************************************
"NEW DISTILLERS" Frequently Asked Questions (Sept'00)

Posted near the 1st of each month, to the NEW_DISTILLERS newsgroup at
www.egroups.com

Please email any additions, corrections, clarifications required, etc
regarding the FAQ to Tony Ackland (ackland@...), however please
direct any general questions to the newsgroup itself.

*******************************************************************

1) Is distilling hard to do ?
2) Is it legal ?
3) Will it make me blind ?
4) Whats the difference between a pot still, reflux still, and
fractionating column ?
5) How do I get or make a still ?
6) How do I make a whisky / rum / vodka / gin ?
7) Should I use sugar or grains ?
8) Can I use fruit wine ?
9) How do I get rid of that "off-taste" ?
10) How do I measure the strength of it & dilute it ?
11) How do I flavour/turn the vodka's into something else ?
12) What web resources are there ?
13) How do I contact the NEW DISTILLERS news group ?
14) Can I run my car on it ?
15) How do I convert between gallons and litres and ....
16) What is a "Thumper" ?

**********************************************************************
1) Is distilling hard to do ?
Nope - if you can follow instructions enough to bake scones, then you can
sucessfully distil. To distil well however, will require you to understand
what you're doing, so read around and get a bit of information under your
belt before you begin.
2) Is it legal ?
Probably not. It is only legal in New Zealand, and some European countries
turn a blind eye to it, but elsewhere it is illegal, with punishment
ranging from fines to imprisonment or floggings. This action against it is
usually the result of either religous beliefs (right or wrong), but more
generally due to the great revenue base it provides Governements through
excise taxes. So if you are going to distil, just be aware of the potential
legal ramifications.
3) Will it make me blind ?
Not if you're careful. This pervasive question is due to moonshine lore,
which abounds with myths of blindness, but few actual documented cases. The
concern is due to the presence of methanol (wood alcohol), an optic nerve
poison, which can be present in small amounts when fermenting grains or
fruits high in pectin. This methanol comes off first from the still, so it
is easily segregated and discarded. A simple rule of thumb for this is to
throw away the first 50 mL you collect (per 20 L mash used). Probably the
greatest risk to your health during distilling is the risk of fire -
collecting a flammable liquid near a heat source. So keep a fire
extinguisher nearby.
4) Whats the difference between a pot still, reflux still, and
fractionating column ?
A pot still simply collects and condenses the alcohol vapours that come off
the boiling mash. This will result in an alcohol at about 40-60% purity,
with plenty of flavour in it. If this distillate were put through the pot
still again, it would increase in purity to around 70-85% purity, and lose
a bit of its flavour.

A reflux still does these multiple distillations in one single go, by
having some packing in a column between the condensor & the pot, and
allowing some of the vapour to condense and trickle back down through the
packing. This "reflux" of liquid helps clean the rising vapour and increase
the % purity. The taller the packed column, and the more reflux liquid, the
purer the product will be. The advantage of doing this is that it will
result in a clean vodka, with little flavour to it - ideal for mixing with
flavours etc.

A fractionating column is a pure form of the reflux still. It will condense
all the vapour at the top of the packing, and return about 9/10 back down
the column. The column will be quite tall - say 600-1200mm (2-4 foot), and
packed with a material high in surface area, but which takes up little
space (pot scrubbers are good for this). It will result in an alcohol 95%+
pure (the theoretical limit without using a vacuum is 95.6%), with no other
tastes or impurities in it.
5) How do I get or make a still ?
If you're after a pot still, these are generally home made using what-ever
you have at hand - say copper tubing and old water heaters or pressure
cookers. Reflux stills can be made from plans on the net, or bought from
several manufacturers. For reflux stil plans see Stillmakers :
http://stillmaker.dreamhost.com/ (free!) or Gert Strands :
http://partyman.se/Engelsk/default.htm (US$5), or for a fractionating
column see Nixon & Stones : http://www.gin-vodka.com/ (US$8). See the list
of "web resources" below for links to sites selling ready-made stills.

Regarding the choice of heating for the still - if you have 240V available
it is usually easiest to control & safer (particularly with internal
elements). Gas can be used, but more care is needed to keep the collection
container further away and not letting it overfill.
6) How do I make a whisky / vodka / rum / gin ?
Whiskey : Heat 4 kg cracked or crushed malt with 18 L of water to 63-65C,
and hold there for 1-1.5 hours. Heat to 73-75C, then strain off and keep
liquid, using 250 mL of hot water to rinse the grains. Cool to below 30C
(should have an initial specific gravity of 1.050). Add hydrated yeast &
leave to ferment (maintain at 26C) until airlock stops bubbling and final
SG of around 1.010. Let settle for a day, then syphon carefully into a pot
still. Discard the first 50 mL's, collect the next 2-3L of distillate or
until you start noticing the tails coming through.

Vodka : dissolve 5 kg of sugar & 60g of nutrients in 20L of water, cool to
below 30C and add hydrated yeast. Leave to ferment at 25C until below an SG
of around 0.990, then settle for a day. Syphon into a reflux or
fractionating still, and collect as per usual.

Rum : as per vodka, but use some brown sugar or mollasses, to give an
initial specific gravity (SG) of around 1.06 - 1.07. Run through either a
pot still, or a not-so-great reflux still.

Gin : make a very pure vodka, then add the following essence. Simmer 35g of
juniper berries in 350 mL of 50% vodka for ten minutes with the lid on, let
cool overnight, then filter through coffee filters. Use 5-10 mL of this
essence per bottle of vodka.

When doing any fermenting, take a lot of care to ensure that any items used
are clean/sterile (soaking them in a water + bleach (10 mL per litre) ), or
else the wash can start growing other things. Use a closed fermenter with
an airlock too, to let the CO2 out without letting wild yeasts, bugs etc
in. For more information about fermenting, see beer or wine homebrewing
sites.
7) Should I use sugar or grains ?
It depends on what sort of still you have, and what you are trying to make.
If you have a reflux or fractionating still, only use whatever is cheapest
(usually sugar), as the refluxing will strip out all the flavours anyhow.
If you have a pot still, and are after a bourban or whiskey, then you need
to go the grain route, or mollasses if after a rum. If you are trying to
make a neutral spirit for flavouring, go for sugar.
8) Can I use fruit wine ?
Sure, if you have it available. Again, using a pot still will result in a
brandy/grappa/schnapps, whereas a reflux still will just strip it down to
neutral spirit.
9) How do I get rid of that "off-taste" ?
That "rough moonshine edge" or "off-taste / wet cardboard smell" is due to
impurities such as the higher order alcohols, known as cogeners or fusel
oils. These will be present more when using a pot still, less if using a
reflux still, and just about absent if using a fractionating column. So one
way is to use a taller packed column and increase the amount of reflux
occuring. They can also indicate that you've tried to collect too much of
the alcohol, and have run into the "tails"; so finish collecting a little
bit earlier next time. Soaking tainted alcohol with activated carbon for a
week (or even months) will help remove some of this flavour - this is known
as "polishing" the spirit.
10) How do I measure the strength of it & dilute it ?
You need a hydrometer. This is a wee float, with a scale inside it. The
more alcohol that is present, the lighter the density of the liquid, so the
hydrometer sinks a bit lower. You then just read off the scale how much
alcohol is present. You need a seperate hydrometer for measuring the
density of the mash, as this is generally > 1.0, whereas the spirit is <
1.0, and they can't accurately do both ends of the scale.
11) How do I flavour/turn the vodka's into something else ?
There are now many commercial flavourings available, which turn vodka or
neutral alcohol into pretty decent gin or whiskey, or all manor of
liqueurs. See the commercial sites, like Des Zines
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~topkiwi or Ray Toms http://moonshine.co.nz/
for details.Or you can soak it with oak chips and make whiskey, or soak
fruits in it to make your own liqueurs.
12) What web resources are there ?
For more details, see :
Tony Ackland's http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller
Aaron Smiths's http://www.go.to/distillation
Steve Spence's http://www.webconx.com/ethanol.htm
13) How do I contact the NEW DISTILLERS news group ?
Both the NEW DISTILLERS and the DISTILLERS news groups are available via
Egroups, at http://www.egroups.com . NEW DISTILLERS is, as the name
suggests, intended for those of you new to distilling and after simple,
straight-forward discussions, whereas the DISTILLERS group is a bit more
advanced, throwing in bits of design philosophy, theory, and alternative
ways of achieving the results. Both tend to overlap to some extent.
14) Can I run my car on it ?
You can run your car on alcohol over about 80% purity. See Steve Spences
site for more details. In addition, in the USA, you can get a "small fuel
producer" permit, which allows small scale distilling for "motor fuel"
purposes. A nice advantage is that they don't require denaturing for "fuel"
used on the premises. The regulations are posted at
http://www.webconx.com/ethanolusaregs.htm
15) How do I convert between gallons and litres and ....
To convert between SI & Imperial units, multiply the first unit by the
conversion factor to get the second. Divide back to do it in reverse .eg 1L
= 0.264 US gal, so 20 L = 20 x 0.264 = 5.28 US gal, and 20 US gal / 0.264 =
75.76 L

1 L = 0.264 US gal = 0.221 UK gal
1 L = 1.057 US qt = 0.880 UK qt
1 kg = 2.204 lbm = 32.15 oz (troy) = 35.27 oz (av)
deg F = ((9/5) x deg C )+ 32
1m = 1000 mm = 39.37 inch = 3.28 ft = 1.09 yd
16) What is a "Thumper" ?
A "thumper" is an extra chamber sometimes fitted to a pot still. It can be
as simple as a glass jar with two holes in the lid. The off-take from the
still is fed into it, with the pipe running almost all the way to the
bottom of the jar; the jar is half filled with liquid (water or mash or
tails) so that the vapour from the still will bubble up through it; then
the vapour coming off it is collected & cooled as per normal. It acts as a
second distilling chamber using just the heat from the vapour, and lifts
the purity from 50-60% to 70-80%, hence improving what might otherwise be a
very mediocre design.

Hi all! My name is Chris and I'm about to attempt to build a still
(geez, sounds like an intro at a support group).

I downloaded the free PDF StillMakers plans. Can anyone out there
give
me imput on the quality of that design? Anthing I should modify or
improve on? Is it going to blow up?


I'm pretty sure I'll have no problems building the tower. Would a
stainless steel pressure cooker work for the boiler? I found a
super-heavy-duty 50qt one for a good price. Is it bad to mix copper
and stainless steel? Anything wrong with converting pressure cookers
in general?

I'm looking forward to getting to know some of you. Thanks in advance
for the advice.

Chris

See the modifications that Rob van Leuvan has done to it
(see http://www.geocities.com/kiwi_distiller/others.htm )
This has improved it so that its now putting out 95% purity & easier to
control.

Tony

Hey Chris,

      I don't see anything wrong with you mixing copper and stainless.  In
fact, mine is a mixture.  I haven't had any problem(s).  I use a 15 (US)
gallon beer keg made of stainless and the rest is copper (pot still) and
have been making pretty good "drink" for a good while now.  I have read a
countless number of hours on many different sites, magazines and books and
have never found anything to the contrary about mixing stainless and copper.
   Even aluminum may be appropriate in some cases!  But for durability, you
may want to use stainless for the entire operation.   I encourage you to
read as much as you can, and, of course, obtain advise from these very
knowlegeable people here on this site. Hey!  Please don't blow yourself up!
David from Cajunland  (US) :-)


>From: cummingsc@...
>Reply-To: new_distillers@egroups.com
>To: new_distillers@egroups.com
>Subject: [new_distillers] Building a Stillmaker's still
>Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 22:18:34 -0000
>
>Hi all! My name is Chris and I'm about to attempt to build a still
>(geez, sounds like an intro at a support group).
>
>I downloaded the free PDF StillMakers plans. Can anyone out there
>give
>me imput on the quality of that design? Anthing I should modify or
>improve on? Is it going to blow up?
>
>
>I'm pretty sure I'll have no problems building the tower. Would a
>stainless steel pressure cooker work for the boiler? I found a
>super-heavy-duty 50qt one for a good price. Is it bad to mix copper
>and stainless steel? Anything wrong with converting pressure cookers
>in general?
>
>I'm looking forward to getting to know some of you. Thanks in advance
>for the advice.
>
>Chris
>

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Hi Chris,
           I just built and started using a stillmaker still, and it works
grandly.
  The tower took a lot of  soldering but came out nicely. and I use it on a
stainless-steel boiler ( a milk can).  I insalled my thermometer in the side
instead of the top, but otherwise followed the plans. I packed it with pot
scrubbers.
                                           Mark