For the next couple of months I can host something on the sandy shores of
Southern Ma. That way, Northern Shore can meet in Boston and RI, CT can meet for
little necks on Cape Cod. After that, I'm suppose to give up all hobbies and
escapism for the next 6-9 months, for spiritual awareness training. But, I could
say it's for an assignment and get it approved, I'm sure. I'll be in Reykjavik,
though, so probably no hosting, maybe a few elk or horses as company. ; ) But
I'll be with you all in spirit, reading under the covers covertly. (What a
shtupid regulation!)

I would like to make some suggestions...

Power versus Force David Hawkins

The Way of the Shaman Michael Harner

The Symbolism of the Tarot by P.D. Ouspensky
accompanied by Wisdom of the Tarot by Elizabeth Haich (Ouspensky's may be read
in an hour, maybe two. It's less than 100 pages)

Quantum Psychology by RAW

Angel Tech by Antero Alli

The Heart of the Master by Crowley

The Fourth Way by Oupsensky

The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot

Sounds like a lot of fun.

Cheryl

--- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com, "nuhermetix" <nuhermetix@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Cheryl,
>
> I forgot to mention it... here's the text of what I sent to my newsletter
list:
>
> The votes came in fast and furious for the last minute Taurus pick for the
Esoteric Book Club. Several books were strong contenders, and the top choice
shifted around several times, but one eventually took the day.
>
>
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1594773084?tag=esobooclu-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&\
linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=1594773084&adid=19MEBAXRD9MADZRY5JW3&
>
> The winner was The Temple of High Magic: Hermetic Initiations in the Western
Mystery Tradition by Ina Cüsters-van Bergen. This link will take you to Amazon
`so you can buy it and we can get this book club really going.
>
> It is SO easy to start a group for this thing. I have 5-7 people in my
Sarasota, FL group already and I haven't even made a flyer. If you live near me,
drop me a line to come to our first meeting.
> I'd love to help you all get groups going in your cities. I know a lot of you
are voting so I'd love to see you reading the books and hanging out with each
other. It is one evening per month (and of course reading a book). All you need
to do is choose a place, date and time to meet and the rest will take care of
itself. I'm putting together a packet to make it absolutely effortless. The
following cities around the world probably already have enough people I know for
groups already:
>
> Anchorage, AK; Los Angeles, CA (and adjacent cities); San Francisco CA (and
adjacent cities); Miami, FL; Atlanta, GA; Chicago, IL; New Orleans, LA;
Cambridge/Boston, MA; Minneapolis, MN; Las Vegas, NV; New York, NY (and
burroughs); Rochester, NY; Dayton, OH; Memphis, TN; Dallas, TX; Houston, TX;
Seattle, WA; Melbourne, AUS; Sydney, AUS; Victoria, AUS; Vancouver, CAN;
Montreal, CAN; Copenhagen, DNK; Dublin, IRL; Amsterdam, Netherlands; Mo i Rana,
NOR
>
> If you live in one of these cities and are willing to help get a group started
in your town I'll be happy to help you and try to get contacts together. If you
live somewhere else I'd still love to help you too, of course!
>
> Oh, and I'd love suggestions for book nominees for Leo, Virgo, Libra and
Scorpio. I'll be assembling the voting lists in the next few weeks. Visit the
Esoteric Book Club site if you want some hints on possible topics.
>
> http://www.esoteric-book-club.org/
>
> Love
> Jaso
>

Awesome suggestions for books Cheryl! A couple are already in my list,
("Holographic Universe" was almost a Gemini nominee) but I'll add the rest. I'd
love for you or someone else from the list to suggest appropriate Zodiac Signs
for each. This is an engaging form of practical Qabala. There's no right or
wrong answers. So, there's no need to be rude. :-)

This could be a fun project for this group.

Power versus Force David Hawkins  -Sign?
The Way of the Shaman Michael Harner -Sign?
The Symbolism of the Tarot by P.D. Ouspensky -Sign?
Wisdom of the Tarot by Elizabeth Haich -Sign?
Quantum Psychology by RAW -Sign?
Angel Tech by Antero Alli -Sign?
The Heart of the Master by Crowley -Sign?
The Fourth Way by Ouspensky -Sign?
The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot -Sign?

Anyone have any other book/sign suggestions?

It's so nice that many of you are interested in helping to start local groups!
This should be very fun and I will help out in any way I can. I hope even more
of you will jump on the bandwagon!

To begin with here's a simple step-by-step plan. These steps are just as
applicable to those who have already started groups as some of this is new stuff
that will help things really get going properly.

1. Inform me that you want to start a group and make up a "secret book club
name" for yourself. This is like a magical motto except that it does not need to
be literary, profound, Latin or even serious. "Sister Chocolate" is fine. Please
don't spend a giant amount of thought on this. :-) But choose something you can
live with.

2. Create a new dedicated email address and let me know what it is so that I can
place a link to it on the Esoteric Book Club site. Use yahoo or gmail or some
other free email service like that. (Remember to check it regularly!)

3. Choose a place where your group will meet. Bookstores and cafes will be very
amenable to such an activity. With cafes you don't really even need to ask if
you don't want to, but they may help you promote it if you let them know. Yoga
studios or even pubs are definite possibilities. Certain kinds of places are of
course better than others. Places owned or staffed by crunchy, hippie, yoga-ish,
goth, punk or new agey looking people will probably result in a more cordial
response than places run by fundamentalist Christians or atheist scientific
materialists. I am not necessarily suggesting that you "spiritually profile" but
you may find it useful to think of some places that would suit an "Esoteric Book
Club." I'm sure you can think of several. It's ultimately unimportant which one.
Just find one and stake your claim. I highly suggest that you have it at a
public place and not a private home.

4. Choose a day and time to regularly meet once a month. "The third Sunday of
each month at 6 PM," for instance is an excellent format. It doesn't need to be
this though. You could choose the "second Tuesday at 3:45 AM," or anything else
if that seems better.

5. Let me know the place, date and time so that I can keep it on file. I won't
put the place up on the internet, but I will put the date and time. We don't
want any businesses getting upset. On the other hand if the business is okay
with it and you are okay with randoms showing up at your meetings then I can put
the info up. But the email buffer will help you to get a sense of who and what
you are dealing with.

6. You can use the flyer template I've created (it is uploaded to the files
area) to create handy flyers for your group if you'd like. Or not. It's in a
Microsoft Word format so you can edit it as you see fit. Only include the name
and address of the venue if you have permission to do so from the venue. Print
out some flyers and hang them in cool places around town. (only on designated
bulletin boards please). This is a talismanic act. Feel free to charge the
posters with your intention to find quality, awesome, compatible people.

7. Let anyone you know that might be interested in attending know about the club
and your group.

8. You could also get in touch with networking groups through sites such as
http://www.meetup.com/ but I'd tread softly so that you are not viewed as a
poacher.

9. You could also just kick back and do nothing and let people find you. It's up
to you how much work you want to put into things. I will do my best to connect
people with you.

10. Get and read this month's book.

11. Make sure that you show up at the place on the day and time of the meeting
even if it's just you on the first month. This will establish the rhythm. More
will come soon.

Please do not use the template or start running a group without letting me know
that you are out there. This will not be useful for either of us. Please do not
request or accept money for anything related to this group unless it is
specifically to cover an expense incurred by the group such as printing, snacks
or location rental. Please do not engage in any kind of harassing or other
inappropriate behavior.

Send info to me at jason@...

Love
Jason

Hahahaha! Holographic Universe is perfect for Gemini, being Twins. heeheehee.

I forgot to add Life and Teachings of the Masters of the Far East, by Baird T.
Spalding and I think that would be ---Virgo, in my book.

Power versus Force--Leo

Heart of the Master, since it's so prophetic and poetical-- Pisces

The Fourth Way is tempered so --Aquarius (although, Gurjdieff's birthday is
April 13, I think. Arete sends us the newsletter. I'll double check that, but I
still think as the Way of accepting all feelings, it'd be best as Aquarius, it's
shadow as Leo)

Quantum Psychology --Libra, balancing the Mind with the Magick

The Tarot pairings-- (Haich and Ouspensky)--Sagitarrus

Way of the Shaman---maybe Scorpio, maybe Ares

Way of the Shaman--Ares
Angel Tech--Scorpio

This is just off the top of my head, first instinct being of importance. But let
me go into meditation and see what I get, too.

I'm cheating, however. I've read them all. How else to know to recommend them?
In meditation, I'll open myself up to some books I haven't read, maybe get a
whole zodiacal pairing for you--but you know, just for fun. I would love to hear
what others come up with, too.

Let me know when things are inked so I can smuggle some into my suitcase.

I'll make this into a 'homework assignment' (I love it when homeowrk is so much
fun) and get back to you.

Much love,
Cheryl

--- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com, "nuhermetix" <nuhermetix@...> wrote:
>
> Awesome suggestions for books Cheryl! A couple are already in my list,
("Holographic Universe" was almost a Gemini nominee) but I'll add the rest. I'd
love for you or someone else from the list to suggest appropriate Zodiac Signs
for each. This is an engaging form of practical Qabala. There's no right or
wrong answers. So, there's no need to be rude. :-)
>
> This could be a fun project for this group.
>
> Power versus Force David Hawkins  -Sign?
> The Way of the Shaman Michael Harner -Sign?
> The Symbolism of the Tarot by P.D. Ouspensky -Sign?
> Wisdom of the Tarot by Elizabeth Haich -Sign?
> Quantum Psychology by RAW -Sign?
> Angel Tech by Antero Alli -Sign?
> The Heart of the Master by Crowley -Sign?
> The Fourth Way by Ouspensky -Sign?
> The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot -Sign?
>
> Anyone have any other book/sign suggestions?
>
> It's so nice that many of you are interested in helping to start local groups!
This should be very fun and I will help out in any way I can. I hope even more
of you will jump on the bandwagon!
>
> To begin with here's a simple step-by-step plan. These steps are just as
applicable to those who have already started groups as some of this is new stuff
that will help things really get going properly.
>
> 1. Inform me that you want to start a group and make up a "secret book club
name" for yourself. This is like a magical motto except that it does not need to
be literary, profound, Latin or even serious. "Sister Chocolate" is fine. Please
don't spend a giant amount of thought on this. :-) But choose something you can
live with.
>
> 2. Create a new dedicated email address and let me know what it is so that I
can place a link to it on the Esoteric Book Club site. Use yahoo or gmail or
some other free email service like that. (Remember to check it regularly!)
>
> 3. Choose a place where your group will meet. Bookstores and cafes will be
very amenable to such an activity. With cafes you don't really even need to ask
if you don't want to, but they may help you promote it if you let them know.
Yoga studios or even pubs are definite possibilities. Certain kinds of places
are of course better than others. Places owned or staffed by crunchy, hippie,
yoga-ish, goth, punk or new agey looking people will probably result in a more
cordial response than places run by fundamentalist Christians or atheist
scientific materialists. I am not necessarily suggesting that you "spiritually
profile" but you may find it useful to think of some places that would suit an
"Esoteric Book Club." I'm sure you can think of several. It's ultimately
unimportant which one. Just find one and stake your claim. I highly suggest that
you have it at a public place and not a private home.
>
> 4. Choose a day and time to regularly meet once a month. "The third Sunday of
each month at 6 PM," for instance is an excellent format. It doesn't need to be
this though. You could choose the "second Tuesday at 3:45 AM," or anything else
if that seems better.
>
> 5. Let me know the place, date and time so that I can keep it on file. I won't
put the place up on the internet, but I will put the date and time. We don't
want any businesses getting upset. On the other hand if the business is okay
with it and you are okay with randoms showing up at your meetings then I can put
the info up. But the email buffer will help you to get a sense of who and what
you are dealing with.
>
> 6. You can use the flyer template I've created (it is uploaded to the files
area) to create handy flyers for your group if you'd like. Or not. It's in a
Microsoft Word format so you can edit it as you see fit. Only include the name
and address of the venue if you have permission to do so from the venue. Print
out some flyers and hang them in cool places around town. (only on designated
bulletin boards please). This is a talismanic act. Feel free to charge the
posters with your intention to find quality, awesome, compatible people.
>
> 7. Let anyone you know that might be interested in attending know about the
club and your group.
>
> 8. You could also get in touch with networking groups through sites such as
http://www.meetup.com/ but I'd tread softly so that you are not viewed as a
poacher.
>
> 9. You could also just kick back and do nothing and let people find you. It's
up to you how much work you want to put into things. I will do my best to
connect people with you.
>
> 10. Get and read this month's book.
>
> 11. Make sure that you show up at the place on the day and time of the meeting
even if it's just you on the first month. This will establish the rhythm. More
will come soon.
>
> Please do not use the template or start running a group without letting me
know that you are out there. This will not be useful for either of us. Please do
not request or accept money for anything related to this group unless it is
specifically to cover an expense incurred by the group such as printing, snacks
or location rental. Please do not engage in any kind of harassing or other
inappropriate behavior.
>
> Send info to me at jason@...
>
> Love
> Jason
>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the newhermeticstalk
group.

   File        : /EBC Flyer Taurus 2010.doc
   Uploaded by : nuhermetix <nuhermetix@...>
   Description : This is a flyer template for making two Esoteric Book Club mini
posters at a time

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newhermeticstalk/files/EBC%20Flyer%20Taurus%202010\
.doc

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.htmlfiles

Regards,

nuhermetix <nuhermetix@...>

Hi Oshun and everyone,

If you dig Haich (me too), you might like Sexual Energy and Yoga by her. Based
on your suggestions, I thought of this book for you. Personally, it assisted me
tremendously with my own Tantric practices and harnessing energy force...

In my booklist meditation, nothing changed. The feeling of As Is stayed
throughout. Silence is consent, so...as is.  But two more books popped into my
head, to fill the Cancer and Capricorn slots.

The Inner Reaches of Outer Space by Joseph Campbell--Cancer, for growth,
expansion and vitality of understanding

The Art of Dreaming by Carlos Castaneda--I want to say Scorpio, but it fits with
Capricorn, too.

Homework done. Off to put a gold star on my forehead. ; )

Much love,
Cheryl

--- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com, OC DuBellay <ceoskydancer@...> wrote:
>
> My book suggestions:
>
> Opening of the Way - Isha Schaller de Luibcz (probably my all time favorite
for so many years.  Literally, I would not travel (and I do that a lot) without
it in my purse for years.  I love this one and would be happy reading it again
in a book club)
>
> Wisdom of the Tarot - Elizabeth Haich (read it a while ago in French and
recently picked it up again in the English version - seems a little different. 
She's really good)
>
> Meditations on the Tarot - annonymous (but I believe it is actually written by
Valentin Tomberg.  I find this book to be an incredible journey into hermetic
mysticism touching upon Kabbalah, Christian mysticism and eastern
spirituality.  Such meditations are so deep the way it is so lucidly presented
here.  Worth going over again after not having touched it in such a long time -
especially nice in a nice online sangha like this.)
>
> The Book of Mirdad:  The Strange Story of a Monastery Which was once The
Ark  - Mikhail Naimy (By far, the BEST book EVER!!  I would read it with great
pleasure in a New Hermetics Book Club.  My Goddess, it is fabulous!!  I
stumbled across it about 15 years ago and bought 10 copies and gave them all
away.  It is a treasure even if it does not make it to the Book Club.)
>
> Frequency:  The Power of Personal Vibration - Penney Peirce (haven't read
much of this yet, actually only a few pages but I am really really interested in
going deep into this subject.)
>
> Between the
> Gates: Lucid Dreaming, Astral Projection, and the Body of Light in
> Western Esotericism - Mark Stavish
>
> Inner Guide Meditation - Edwin Steinbrechger (I am so wanting a working group
to do some study with this book.)
>
> The Way of Tarot: the Spiritual Teacher in the Cards - Alejandro Jodorowsky (I
loved this book in French and it has recently been translated in English and I
found it at the BodhiTree with such excitement.  I love the Tarot de Marseille
but few people in the US seem to know it.  In any case, this book and the
meditations therein are really wonderful.  Jodorowsky is really great.  He
still gives free tarot readings in a cafe in Paris every Wednesday.  Too bad
his book La
>  Danse de la réalité is not translated.  Now that's something for a Book
Club.)
>
> How Yoga Works - Michael Roach and Christie McNallay (A true gem of the
mystical nature within that is revealed through yoga and the gems are hidden
within this amazing little story that is so enchanting it is hard to put the
book down.  A good Book Club idea.)
>
> Much love everyone.
> Oshun
>
>
> C. Oshun DuBellay     Wherever you go, go with all your heart.  -- Confucius
      (650) 279-7401  (310) 439-2635   
>

Pardon my fun with this service announcement.

There once was a man from Limerick
Who could speak in nothing but Iambic;
He went about talking in rhyme,
Annoying all all the time
'Til everyone fell into their own sick.

and...

Spiritual Haiku

Words needed for tome
Come friends, gather your poems
Many thanks to muse


Thoughts those in the throes would appreciate this point:


A Spiritualist publisher plans a super new anthology of poems.

Provisionally entitled "Glad Tidings", all subjects accepted!

If you wish to see your poems and name in print in a book to treasure for years
to come, please write for further details to:-

Tudor Press (London) Ltd
27 Old Gloucester Street
London
WC1N 3XX
United Kingdom

or

email:- tortzen@...


Shine on,
Cheryl

So I am half way through the book and am enjoying it quite a bit.

I note strains of the all too common threads of magical elitism, but she
presents it in a tempered and infrequent way and it is easy enough to adjust to
my own thoughts or read around.

But moreover I am impressed with her clarity and directness. There is for me a
special value and benefit when someone can take the depths of the ineffable and
talk "around" them in a simple and clear way. For me that has tremendous value
even if it is on a subject I already know a lot about.

So wondering what other initial impressions people are having and things people
would like to share.
all best,

Doc

Hi Doc,

I'm a little less than half way through myself, and I agree with you on the all
too common thread of elitism. It runs rampant in Hermetics, however, so I think
we've all come to expect and forgive it at the same time. I also have seen a lot
of the same formula used in these type of books: the 'this is a book of
practical application and not for the the armchair magickian', yadayada and 'I
walk the talk whereas others don't' which was refreshing when used in the 60s,
but has gotten stale and commonplace now.

However, a lot might have been lost in translation, too. I have a friend who has
Dutch grandparents and so speaks fluent Dutch. The reason why I am lagging a bit
in the reading is because I'm having her help me with the original Dutch. She
says that it reads a lot better in it's native tongue. Since I don't have the
time, right now, to learn Dutch to the point of reading, I have to trust her
take on it and am willing to chalk up the hokey formula following to editing or
translation.

Discussions will, with all hope and love, be lively on the Esoteric Book Club
forum, I'm sure, when people, including myself, have had time to read it
through, absorb it and are ready to toss back some of their feedback and
insights.

Thank you for starting a chatting thread here..and reminding to schedule another
powwow with my Dutch speaking friend. This weekend should be fruitful.

Looking forward to furthering discussions. Thank you again!



--- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com, "docbluedog" <docbluedog@...> wrote:
>
> So I am half way through the book and am enjoying it quite a bit.
>
> I note strains of the all too common threads of magical elitism, but she
> presents it in a tempered and infrequent way and it is easy enough to adjust
to my own thoughts or read around.
>
> But moreover I am impressed with her clarity and directness. There is for me a
special value and benefit when someone can take the depths of the ineffable and
talk "around" them in a simple and clear way. For me that has tremendous value
even if it is on a subject I already know a lot about.
>
> So wondering what other initial impressions people are having and things
people would like to share.
> all best,
>
> Doc
>

> Discussions will, with all hope and love, be lively on the Esoteric Book Club
forum, I'm sure, when people, including myself, have had time to read it
through, absorb it and are ready to toss back some of their feedback and
insights.

Let me just officially say that since we do not yet have the dedicated forum
finished and there are only a few local groups with a meeting planned this month
that we use this place to have an online chat about the book club pick "The
Temple of High Magic" for those interested. I'm sure it won't take up too much
time away from the lively ongoing New Hermetics discussion.

Follow this link:

http://tinyurl.com/2abgdws

To get a copy of this book at amazon.com.

Those who have read it (few) may begin talking anytime. Those who have not yet
and are interested (many) can pick up the discussion ASAP.

IMHO while i am only about 50 pages in I think this book may serve as a useful
bridge between the Golden Dawn hermetic current and more pagan, new age, yoga
folks as it clearly defines much of the path without using so much jargon that
it is off putting.

On the other hand it does have quite a few of what i like to call "occult
whoppers" - Statements like the one in which Ina says that Mary Magdalene was
likely a priestess in a mystery temple that practiced sacred prostitution. This
statement (and its many friends that visit us in these pages) is not supported
in the text at all. It is just tossed in along the way. It doesn't add anything
to the story and generally makes it all seem less credible.

I realize that many people think that Mary Magdalene was a priestess, or that
she was the wife of Jesus, or that she and Jesus were both inter-dimensional
aliens from under the sea attempting to re-introduce lost spirit technology from
the planet Atlantis 23. But if you are going to make a statement like this you
need to support it, in some way at least.

Mary Magdalene, (if such a person ever existed) may have been a priestess, or
she may have been a prostitute, or she she may have been the daughter of the
temple cantor who was never involved in any sort of sex trade activity at all.
The Christian scriptures never identify Mary Magdalene as a prostitute, and most
biblical scholars do not think she was one. Not that I particularly care either
way, but it makes the whole book seem less reliable when unusual, unsupported
statements are made as if they should be perfectly obvious.

I like the fact that she is interested in legitimizing and raising our tradition
out of the smoky basements, guest rooms and armchairs that it is so often placed
into in the popular imagination.

I'll have more thoughts when I've read more I'm sure.

Love
Jason

I'm just thinking out loud here and perhaps others would have some thoughts,
too, but this could be where the words have our own personalized and modernized
meanings that differ from either their origin or the original use of them in the
cultural tongue (somethings go missing in the translation).

For instance, in ancient Greece, a prostitute was almost like a priestess. She
was educated, well respected. Men would go to her (usually, almost always a her)
for intellectual stimulation, philosophical musings and political debates. It
wasn't until the murder of Hypatia with the scattering of her ashes with Venus's
shells along the streets of Alexandria that the intellect was taken away from
the woman as a luring attribute (although Hypatia was a teacher of mathematics,
the most highly regarded, and not a prostitute). But from there, the role of the
woman diminished. It flared up again with the Courtesan, 17th/18th Century,
where again the prostitute was expected to be highly educated, this time in
poetry, literature and politics.

Europeans are not so puritanical about prostitution. It's legal in some
countries, Dutch speaking countries, encouraged in others.

So, could the word prostitution mean one thing to one and another to another...?
Could Mary simply have been the intellectual, philosophical and political
stimulus of Yeshua? Thus, the High Priestess. Often times in ancient
prostitution, sex was only secondary, if sought after at all, in the
prostitution liaison. People got off with the Yogic practice of turning that
sexual energy inward and used to achieve higher planes of consciousness, or
altered states of being--which is the ultimate goal, yes? no? It's really only
the Gnostic sect that is rumoured to use the exoteric act of sex in Rites
(although the Mendes tribe was also sexual: the goat--inverted Star of Venus or
Pentagram--being the sign of masculine Virility and the female 'emerald' being
the gateway into the higher planes). This said, whereas sexual alchemy is one
avenue, it doesn't have to be the only avenue and it could, or could not, be the
meaning behind the word 'prostitute'...or 'High Priestess' for that matter.

I'm interested in the Dutch usage of the word 'prostitute' or 'prostitution' and
see if it was meant as a sexual liaison or a philosophical/metaphysical equal.
As well as if the word for High Priestess was translated well, too. I will bring
it up this weekend.

--- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <jason_augustus_newcomb@...>
wrote:
>
> > Discussions will, with all hope and love, be lively on the Esoteric Book
Club forum, I'm sure, when people, including myself, have had time to read it
through, absorb it and are ready to toss back some of their feedback and
insights.
>
> Let me just officially say that since we do not yet have the dedicated forum
finished and there are only a few local groups with a meeting planned this month
that we use this place to have an online chat about the book club pick "The
Temple of High Magic" for those interested. I'm sure it won't take up too much
time away from the lively ongoing New Hermetics discussion.
>
> Follow this link:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2abgdws
>
> To get a copy of this book at amazon.com.
>
> Those who have read it (few) may begin talking anytime. Those who have not yet
and are interested (many) can pick up the discussion ASAP.
>
> IMHO while i am only about 50 pages in I think this book may serve as a useful
bridge between the Golden Dawn hermetic current and more pagan, new age, yoga
folks as it clearly defines much of the path without using so much jargon that
it is off putting.
>
> On the other hand it does have quite a few of what i like to call "occult
whoppers" - Statements like the one in which Ina says that Mary Magdalene was
likely a priestess in a mystery temple that practiced sacred prostitution. This
statement (and its many friends that visit us in these pages) is not supported
in the text at all. It is just tossed in along the way. It doesn't add anything
to the story and generally makes it all seem less credible.
>
> I realize that many people think that Mary Magdalene was a priestess, or that
she was the wife of Jesus, or that she and Jesus were both inter-dimensional
aliens from under the sea attempting to re-introduce lost spirit technology from
the planet Atlantis 23. But if you are going to make a statement like this you
need to support it, in some way at least.
>
> Mary Magdalene, (if such a person ever existed) may have been a priestess, or
she may have been a prostitute, or she she may have been the daughter of the
temple cantor who was never involved in any sort of sex trade activity at all.
The Christian scriptures never identify Mary Magdalene as a prostitute, and most
biblical scholars do not think she was one. Not that I particularly care either
way, but it makes the whole book seem less reliable when unusual, unsupported
statements are made as if they should be perfectly obvious.
>
> I like the fact that she is interested in legitimizing and raising our
tradition out of the smoky basements, guest rooms and armchairs that it is so
often placed into in the popular imagination.
>
> I'll have more thoughts when I've read more I'm sure.
>
> Love
> Jason
>

You might dig Magick That Works by Francis Harris and Nineveh Shadrach. Sorry to
keep contributing (but not really), but they both judge their magickal success
by how much light they are able to invite into their lives, rather than by how
much illusion to control they are able to convince themselves of. One can not
have control and want control at the same time. One must let the want of control
go in order to have control...or so has been taught by Masters...

Enough said. The book would speak volumes.

Bon libre,
C

--- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com, Mark Grennell <nationalpsychosis@...>
wrote:
>
> So far, I'm only a little more than halfway through the book as well.
> Besides some of the points that have been brought up by others, one thing
> that has really stood out to me about this book (in contrast to a lot of
> other popular occult books) is how much she emphasizes the role of magic in
> spiritual development, versus just solving whatever problems I might be
> having (other people not acting "right," not enough money, job sucks, etc.)
> It really has stimulated me further to consider something that's been
> nagging at me for a long time, namely, is it possible to change anything
> other than myself with magic? Of course, that in itself brings up the
> question of what is self and what is other, which I have a real hard time
> coming to a satisfactory answer on...
>
> ~mark
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 12:38 PM, bagheera2332 <maratnahs@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I'm just thinking out loud here and perhaps others would have some
> > thoughts, too, but this could be where the words have our own personalized
> > and modernized meanings that differ from either their origin or the original
> > use of them in the cultural tongue (somethings go missing in the
> > translation).
> >
> > For instance, in ancient Greece, a prostitute was almost like a priestess.
> > She was educated, well respected. Men would go to her (usually, almost
> > always a her) for intellectual stimulation, philosophical musings and
> > political debates. It wasn't until the murder of Hypatia with the scattering
> > of her ashes with Venus's shells along the streets of Alexandria that the
> > intellect was taken away from the woman as a luring attribute (although
> > Hypatia was a teacher of mathematics, the most highly regarded, and not a
> > prostitute). But from there, the role of the woman diminished. It flared up
> > again with the Courtesan, 17th/18th Century, where again the prostitute was
> > expected to be highly educated, this time in poetry, literature and
> > politics.
> >
> > Europeans are not so puritanical about prostitution. It's legal in some
> > countries, Dutch speaking countries, encouraged in others.
> >
> > So, could the word prostitution mean one thing to one and another to
> > another...? Could Mary simply have been the intellectual, philosophical and
> > political stimulus of Yeshua? Thus, the High Priestess. Often times in
> > ancient prostitution, sex was only secondary, if sought after at all, in the
> > prostitution liaison. People got off with the Yogic practice of turning that
> > sexual energy inward and used to achieve higher planes of consciousness, or
> > altered states of being--which is the ultimate goal, yes? no? It's really
> > only the Gnostic sect that is rumoured to use the exoteric act of sex in
> > Rites (although the Mendes tribe was also sexual: the goat--inverted Star of
> > Venus or Pentagram--being the sign of masculine Virility and the female
> > 'emerald' being the gateway into the higher planes). This said, whereas
> > sexual alchemy is one avenue, it doesn't have to be the only avenue and it
> > could, or could not, be the meaning behind the word 'prostitute'...or 'High
> > Priestess' for that matter.
> >
> > I'm interested in the Dutch usage of the word 'prostitute' or
> > 'prostitution' and see if it was meant as a sexual liaison or a
> > philosophical/metaphysical equal. As well as if the word for High Priestess
> > was translated well, too. I will bring it up this weekend.
> >
> >
> > --- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com<newhermeticstalk%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "Jason" <jason_augustus_newcomb@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Discussions will, with all hope and love, be lively on the Esoteric
> > Book Club forum, I'm sure, when people, including myself, have had time to
> > read it through, absorb it and are ready to toss back some of their feedback
> > and insights.
> > >
> > > Let me just officially say that since we do not yet have the dedicated
> > forum finished and there are only a few local groups with a meeting planned
> > this month that we use this place to have an online chat about the book club
> > pick "The Temple of High Magic" for those interested. I'm sure it won't take
> > up too much time away from the lively ongoing New Hermetics discussion.
> > >
> > > Follow this link:
> > >
> > > http://tinyurl.com/2abgdws
> > >
> > > To get a copy of this book at amazon.com.
> > >
> > > Those who have read it (few) may begin talking anytime. Those who have
> > not yet and are interested (many) can pick up the discussion ASAP.
> > >
> > > IMHO while i am only about 50 pages in I think this book may serve as a
> > useful bridge between the Golden Dawn hermetic current and more pagan, new
> > age, yoga folks as it clearly defines much of the path without using so much
> > jargon that it is off putting.
> > >
> > > On the other hand it does have quite a few of what i like to call "occult
> > whoppers" - Statements like the one in which Ina says that Mary Magdalene
> > was likely a priestess in a mystery temple that practiced sacred
> > prostitution. This statement (and its many friends that visit us in these
> > pages) is not supported in the text at all. It is just tossed in along the
> > way. It doesn't add anything to the story and generally makes it all seem
> > less credible.
> > >
> > > I realize that many people think that Mary Magdalene was a priestess, or
> > that she was the wife of Jesus, or that she and Jesus were both
> > inter-dimensional aliens from under the sea attempting to re-introduce lost
> > spirit technology from the planet Atlantis 23. But if you are going to make
> > a statement like this you need to support it, in some way at least.
> > >
> > > Mary Magdalene, (if such a person ever existed) may have been a
> > priestess, or she may have been a prostitute, or she she may have been the
> > daughter of the temple cantor who was never involved in any sort of sex
> > trade activity at all. The Christian scriptures never identify Mary
> > Magdalene as a prostitute, and most biblical scholars do not think she was
> > one. Not that I particularly care either way, but it makes the whole book
> > seem less reliable when unusual, unsupported statements are made as if they
> > should be perfectly obvious.
> > >
> > > I like the fact that she is interested in legitimizing and raising our
> > tradition out of the smoky basements, guest rooms and armchairs that it is
> > so often placed into in the popular imagination.
> > >
> > > I'll have more thoughts when I've read more I'm sure.
> > >
> > > Love
> > > Jason
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>

We brought up the whole woman's role in spirituality/magick/esoterica at the
book club meeting, based on the whole Mary Magdalene observation. It lead into
very interesting topics, that sort of related to the book, but not really. There
is more of an acceptance of prostitution in modern Dutch countries, but as a
commodity, and not in the historical perspective of the word 'prostitute.' Just
like there is a lack of historical perspective with the word Virgin. There are a
slew of Virgin Mothers on Earth today, because the word was used (in historical
perspective) to describe an unwed woman.

An interesting translation, however. One word, in Dutch, for prostitute is
verlagen, meaning someone who sells their talent for an unworthy cause. In
English, this is also the definition of prostitute, too--one of them. We could
see how all the disciples might have been called prostitutes, yes? Again,
keeping it in historical perspective. If there was an enlightened Master who was
throwing out the spiritual control mechanism of karma and turning the popular
eye for a eye consciousness on it's heels, many would see those efforts as an
unworthy cause. The same as today we would see medical doctors trying to get
patients to self heal rather than be dependent on the pharmaceutical
multi-billion dollar juggernaut as those selling their talents to an unworthy
cause (even though prescription drugs is the number one leading cause of death
today).

But lack of historical perspective is the mark of a poor scholar, anyway; the
ignorant leading the blind. The consciousness towards a prostitute during that
time was one of much higher respect than it is now. Much higher! A prostitute
was in par with being a teacher back then. A teacher.

It was an interesting discussion on the rise and fall of women in spirituality.
My group consists of mainly Romana gypsies, historians, a few Wiccans and two
Shinto shamans. Romana gypsies have their own brand of Catholicism that gave the
whole masterpiece of consciousness a great and wonderful contrast to the Wiccan
perspective. Being a Classical Skeptic (another great use of historical
perspective in understanding what those two words used together really stand
for), I was fascinated with the whole discussion. It was an interesting night. A
bit organic in the topic of discussion, but the road less traveled makes all the
difference.

Thank you for the opportunity to explore.

I love the History Channel. Great entertainment. It's a great inspirational
point to track down your own research (usually found in places other than
Wikipedia). One of the only benefits of having geeky brothers is that they rub
elbows with professeurs. Our local group is very informal, since we have an
already existing book club for over a year now. And, well, we blend it with our
Foodie night. Cook, drink, eat, discuss. There will be times when we read the
Esoteric Book Club choice, and there will be times when we're off on our own
adventure, books and topics, but I am grateful for the mix of backgrounds. It
gives it a more balanced and unbiased approach. Especially with such a topic as
early Christianity. I could go off on how Lucifer is really Venus in early
Christianity, but that's another post.

And ah yes, well, us dirty rotten magickians can't be corrupting the minds of
the public, now can we? Encouraging others to be Masters of their own Destiny!
Where are our moral compasses?! Gah, perish the thought of Liberation, Inner
Reflection and Knowing Thyself on public access. The public knows you, your
education is in their hands. (yeah right)

Off to have some hemlock tea. ; ) May you get your computer soon. Welcome to the
group! May your possibilities be unlimited!

Let the Rain of Blessings fall,
C

--- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com, Roger Malafa <bhobflood@...> wrote:
>
> wow, this was a great post. the statement about lots of virgin mothers being
alive today hit me right between the eyes. i never knew that the original
meaning of that statement in the bible was an unmarried mother. i assume that it
was expande years later to create the meaning given it today by the modern
christian churches. but this idea goes back to older "pagan" religions whos gods
had a miraculous virgin which most students are farmiliar with. i mean i learned
of it on the History channel. anyway i joined this group but do not have
personal internet, only the weak public library access. when i joined it told me
i could NOT join due to "administrative restriction of content". nice way of
saying we nazi/commie/fascist beaurocrats who control the "public" library dont
think you should be a part of this yahoo group. So i havent been able to access
the group to read all the posts. but i do appreciate getting enails like this.
keep them coming. until i get
>  a new computer i remain mired in mediocrity of modern life, r
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: bagheera2332 <maratnahs@...>
> To: newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, May 16, 2010 5:00:50 AM
> Subject: [newhermeticstalk] A Minor Point
>
>  
> We brought up the whole woman's role in spirituality/magick/esoterica at the
book club meeting, based on the whole Mary Magdalene observation. It lead into
very interesting topics, that sort of related to the book, but not really. There
is more of an acceptance of prostitution in modern Dutch countries, but as a
commodity, and not in the historical perspective of the word 'prostitute.' Just
like there is a lack of historical perspective with the word Virgin. There are a
slew of Virgin Mothers on Earth today, because the word was used (in historical
perspective) to describe an unwed woman.
>
> An interesting translation, however. One word, in Dutch, for prostitute is
verlagen, meaning someone who sells their talent for an unworthy cause. In
English, this is also the definition of prostitute, too--one of them. We could
see how all the disciples might have been called prostitutes, yes? Again,
keeping it in historical perspective. If there was an enlightened Master who was
throwing out the spiritual control mechanism of karma and turning the popular
eye for a eye consciousness on it's heels, many would see those efforts as an
unworthy cause. The same as today we would see medical doctors trying to get
patients to self heal rather than be dependent on the pharmaceutical
multi-billion dollar juggernaut as those selling their talents to an unworthy
cause (even though prescription drugs is the number one leading cause of death
today).
>
> But lack of historical perspective is the mark of a poor scholar, anyway; the
ignorant leading the blind. The consciousness towards a prostitute during that
time was one of much higher respect than it is now. Much higher! A prostitute
was in par with being a teacher back then. A teacher.
>
> It was an interesting discussion on the rise and fall of women in
spirituality. My group consists of mainly Romana gypsies, historians, a few
Wiccans and two Shinto shamans. Romana gypsies have their own brand of
Catholicism that gave the whole masterpiece of consciousness a great and
wonderful contrast to the Wiccan perspective. Being a Classical Skeptic (another
great use of historical perspective in understanding what those two words used
together really stand for), I was fascinated with the whole discussion. It was
an interesting night. A bit organic in the topic of discussion, but the road
less traveled makes all the difference.
>
> Thank you for the opportunity to explore.
>

http://coxrexanu.chat.ru

Hey Roger,

You gave me a great idea! We're finishing up the book and discussions tomorrow
night. And it's my turn to cook this week. I think I'll bring up the whole
Lucifer and Venus subject, since sometimes the Higher Magick is great, but a
little lofty, too. There is a balance. I'll bring up the subject for some
balance.

I agree with you on the Goddess 'banishment.' Not only is Lucifer the Morning
Star (Venus, for making a five pointed star throughout the zodiacal path of the
year), but he is Hermes, as well. (Actually, Hermaphrodite is a perfect Union of
the Male and Female, of Hermes and Aphrodite. Here is the Alchemical Wedding).
Hermes, we know, as our patron God of Hermetics, is keeper of the Emerald
Tablet. Lucifer lost his emerald crown. Emerald is also the colour of lust and
Venus. Levi mistook the gargoyles outside the Cathedral of Notre Dame as the
Goat of Mendes, trying to accuse the priests of Devil Worship. He is way off.
First off, gargoyles were used to scare off evil spirit, and secondly, the tribe
of Mendes weren't evil. They came from the Black Sands, which means secret
knowledge. And they worshipped the goat, yes, but as a symbol of virility. They
were Tantric lovers. Mind you, able to tear your head off if their sacred
temples were invaded by those who didn't understand, but they were Lucifer
Worshippers because they were Lovers, not because they performed Black Magick,
as Levi alluded to with the accusation.

Anyway, not only is Lucifer the Goddess of Love and Lust as Venus, and the Goat
of Mendes as the Tantric Lover (the tribe of Mendes worshipped their women,
respected them as the Gateway into Higher Consciousness, giving great depth to
the word prostitute), but he was also Athena, as the Light Bringer, the Goddess
of Knowledge, and Isis as the Goddess of not only Magick, but Sexual Alchemy
(the serpent of wisdom climbing up the tree of knowledge). Eden did not have
apples in it. That is a reference to Venus. But historically, the place where
Eden is commonly thought to be WOULD have fashioned pomengrates, which is the
fruit of the Underworld and Peresphone and Hades.

Lucifer is gloriously layered, and often misunderstood. Often clumped with Satan
or Saturn, which is fascinated with the Venus archetype as well as Her torturer,
as we see in many cultures myths.

I'll gather my own thoughts and mix them with others and see what I can come up
with for a more focused 'essay' or, really, treatise on it. Why not? Great fun.
Shocks the public access people, too, which is good for them every once in a
while. Gets them out of the automaton mode.

Hmmm, let's see...for such a topic I would have to serve clams on the half shell
with a champagne icing, seared scallops with an applewine and butter sauce
served over, well, angel hair. For dessert, Apple crumb with a devil's chocolate
filling, something sensual for the sauce...Strawberry Malabor, which is flambeed
with Grand Marnier. We can warm the left over Grand Marnier in snifters while we
all smoke cigars, including the women. Very phallic. That outta do it!

; )

With a devilish smirk,
Cheryl

--- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com, Roger Malafa <bhobflood@...> wrote:
>
> thank you for your very friendly email. i appreciate it. you are lucky to be a
part of the club you mentioned. also, you are very right about what you said
about lucifer. the reason i say this is that some months ago i discovered a
utube video series that talked about this. it was a series of fantastic magical
lessons concerning the true explaination of how to use the goetia. it was from
the 80s but was spellbinding viewing (pun intended). the gentleman narrating it
was a virtual fountain of information on how the ancient godesses and gods were
recodified into demons by the early christian leaders. it was quiet an
eye-opener. well. i am looking forward to receiving more posts from the group.
thanks again. bob
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: bagheera2332 <maratnahs@...>
> To: newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, May 18, 2010 2:43:26 PM
> Subject: [newhermeticstalk] Re: A Minor Point
>
>  
> I love the History Channel. Great entertainment. It's a great inspirational
point to track down your own research (usually found in places other than
Wikipedia). One of the only benefits of having geeky brothers is that they rub
elbows with professeurs. Our local group is very informal, since we have an
already existing book club for over a year now. And, well, we blend it with our
Foodie night. Cook, drink, eat, discuss. There will be times when we read the
Esoteric Book Club choice, and there will be times when we're off on our own
adventure, books and topics, but I am grateful for the mix of backgrounds. It
gives it a more balanced and unbiased approach. Especially with such a topic as
early Christianity. I could go off on how Lucifer is really Venus in early
Christianity, but that's another post.
>
> And ah yes, well, us dirty rotten magickians can't be corrupting the minds of
the public, now can we? Encouraging others to be Masters of their own Destiny!
Where are our moral compasses?! Gah, perish the thought of Liberation, Inner
Reflection and Knowing Thyself on public access. The public knows you, your
education is in their hands. (yeah right)
>
> Off to have some hemlock tea. ; ) May you get your computer soon. Welcome to
the group! May your possibilities be unlimited!
>
> Let the Rain of Blessings fall,
> C
>
> --- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com, Roger Malafa <bhobflood@> wrote:
> >
> > wow, this was a great post. the statement about lots of virgin mothers being
alive today hit me right between the eyes. i never knew that the original
meaning of that statement in the bible was an unmarried mother. i assume that it
was expande years later to create the meaning given it today by the modern
christian churches. but this idea goes back to older "pagan" religions whos gods
had a miraculous virgin which most students are farmiliar with. i mean i learned
of it on the History channel. anyway i joined this group but do not have
personal internet, only the weak public library access. when i joined it told me
i could NOT join due to "administrative restriction of content". nice way of
saying we nazi/commie/fascist beaurocrats who control the "public" library dont
think you should be a part of this yahoo group. So i havent been able to access
the group to read all the posts. but i do appreciate getting enails like this.
keep them coming. until i
>  get
> > a new computer i remain mired in mediocrity of modern life, r
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: bagheera2332 <maratnahs@>
> > To: newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sun, May 16, 2010 5:00:50 AM
> > Subject: [newhermeticstalk] A Minor Point
> >
> >  
> > We brought up the whole woman's role in spirituality/magick/esoterica at the
book club meeting, based on the whole Mary Magdalene observation. It lead into
very interesting topics, that sort of related to the book, but not really. There
is more of an acceptance of prostitution in modern Dutch countries, but as a
commodity, and not in the historical perspective of the word 'prostitute.' Just
like there is a lack of historical perspective with the word Virgin. There are a
slew of Virgin Mothers on Earth today, because the word was used (in historical
perspective) to describe an unwed woman.
> >
> > An interesting translation, however. One word, in Dutch, for prostitute is
verlagen, meaning someone who sells their talent for an unworthy cause. In
English, this is also the definition of prostitute, too--one of them. We could
see how all the disciples might have been called prostitutes, yes? Again,
keeping it in historical perspective. If there was an enlightened Master who was
throwing out the spiritual control mechanism of karma and turning the popular
eye for a eye consciousness on it's heels, many would see those efforts as an
unworthy cause. The same as today we would see medical doctors trying to get
patients to self heal rather than be dependent on the pharmaceutical
multi-billion dollar juggernaut as those selling their talents to an unworthy
cause (even though prescription drugs is the number one leading cause of death
today).
> >
> > But lack of historical perspective is the mark of a poor scholar, anyway;
the ignorant leading the blind. The consciousness towards a prostitute during
that time was one of much higher respect than it is now. Much higher! A
prostitute was in par with being a teacher back then. A teacher.
> >
> > It was an interesting discussion on the rise and fall of women in
spirituality. My group consists of mainly Romana gypsies, historians, a few
Wiccans and two Shinto shamans. Romana gypsies have their own brand of
Catholicism that gave the whole masterpiece of consciousness a great and
wonderful contrast to the Wiccan perspective. Being a Classical Skeptic (another
great use of historical perspective in understanding what those two words used
together really stand for), I was fascinated with the whole discussion. It was
an interesting night. A bit organic in the topic of discussion, but the road
less traveled makes all the difference.
> >
> > Thank you for the opportunity to explore.
> >
>

Oooh! Oooh! Baked Apples with chocolates melted inside the cores for dessert.
And King Crimson playing as ambiance while cooking. Lark's Tongue in Aspic is my
favourite. The Ablum, not the recipe.

All of these recipes are references to not only Lucifer, but Venus. Oysters
would be good, too, whether sea coast or Rocky Mountain (a little heads up:
Rocky Mountain Oysters are Bulls balls. Kid you not. Just so you know if ever
you are dared to down a plate. I learned the hard way...Zodiacally appropriate,
too, since both Taurus and Virgo are Earth signs...bra-rump-bump-bump)

Again, a minor point...to a major theme. Got a lot of offlist emails to this
one. Love you all.

Just having fun. As it should be...


--- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com, "bagheera2332" <maratnahs@...> wrote:
>
> Hey Roger,
>
> You gave me a great idea! We're finishing up the book and discussions tomorrow
night. And it's my turn to cook this week. I think I'll bring up the whole
Lucifer and Venus subject, since sometimes the Higher Magick is great, but a
little lofty, too. There is a balance. I'll bring up the subject for some
balance.
>
> I agree with you on the Goddess 'banishment.' Not only is Lucifer the Morning
Star (Venus, for making a five pointed star throughout the zodiacal path of the
year), but he is Hermes, as well. (Actually, Hermaphrodite is a perfect Union of
the Male and Female, of Hermes and Aphrodite. Here is the Alchemical Wedding).
Hermes, we know, as our patron God of Hermetics, is keeper of the Emerald
Tablet. Lucifer lost his emerald crown. Emerald is also the colour of lust and
Venus. Levi mistook the gargoyles outside the Cathedral of Notre Dame as the
Goat of Mendes, trying to accuse the priests of Devil Worship. He is way off.
First off, gargoyles were used to scare off evil spirit, and secondly, the tribe
of Mendes weren't evil. They came from the Black Sands, which means secret
knowledge. And they worshipped the goat, yes, but as a symbol of virility. They
were Tantric lovers. Mind you, able to tear your head off if their sacred
temples were invaded by those who didn't understand, but they were Lucifer
Worshippers because they were Lovers, not because they performed Black Magick,
as Levi alluded to with the accusation.
>
> Anyway, not only is Lucifer the Goddess of Love and Lust as Venus, and the
Goat of Mendes as the Tantric Lover (the tribe of Mendes worshipped their women,
respected them as the Gateway into Higher Consciousness, giving great depth to
the word prostitute), but he was also Athena, as the Light Bringer, the Goddess
of Knowledge, and Isis as the Goddess of not only Magick, but Sexual Alchemy
(the serpent of wisdom climbing up the tree of knowledge). Eden did not have
apples in it. That is a reference to Venus. But historically, the place where
Eden is commonly thought to be WOULD have fashioned pomengrates, which is the
fruit of the Underworld and Peresphone and Hades.
>
> Lucifer is gloriously layered, and often misunderstood. Often clumped with
Satan or Saturn, which is fascinated with the Venus archetype as well as Her
torturer, as we see in many cultures myths.
>
> I'll gather my own thoughts and mix them with others and see what I can come
up with for a more focused 'essay' or, really, treatise on it. Why not? Great
fun. Shocks the public access people, too, which is good for them every once in
a while. Gets them out of the automaton mode.
>
> Hmmm, let's see...for such a topic I would have to serve clams on the half
shell with a champagne icing, seared scallops with an applewine and butter sauce
served over, well, angel hair. For dessert, Apple crumb with a devil's chocolate
filling, something sensual for the sauce...Strawberry Malabor, which is flambeed
with Grand Marnier. We can warm the left over Grand Marnier in snifters while we
all smoke cigars, including the women. Very phallic. That outta do it!
>
> ; )
>
> With a devilish smirk,
> Cheryl
>
> --- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com, Roger Malafa <bhobflood@> wrote:
> >
> > thank you for your very friendly email. i appreciate it. you are lucky to be
a part of the club you mentioned. also, you are very right about what you said
about lucifer. the reason i say this is that some months ago i discovered a
utube video series that talked about this. it was a series of fantastic magical
lessons concerning the true explaination of how to use the goetia. it was from
the 80s but was spellbinding viewing (pun intended). the gentleman narrating it
was a virtual fountain of information on how the ancient godesses and gods were
recodified into demons by the early christian leaders. it was quiet an
eye-opener. well. i am looking forward to receiving more posts from the group.
thanks again. bob
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: bagheera2332 <maratnahs@>
> > To: newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tue, May 18, 2010 2:43:26 PM
> > Subject: [newhermeticstalk] Re: A Minor Point
> >
> >  
> > I love the History Channel. Great entertainment. It's a great inspirational
point to track down your own research (usually found in places other than
Wikipedia). One of the only benefits of having geeky brothers is that they rub
elbows with professeurs. Our local group is very informal, since we have an
already existing book club for over a year now. And, well, we blend it with our
Foodie night. Cook, drink, eat, discuss. There will be times when we read the
Esoteric Book Club choice, and there will be times when we're off on our own
adventure, books and topics, but I am grateful for the mix of backgrounds. It
gives it a more balanced and unbiased approach. Especially with such a topic as
early Christianity. I could go off on how Lucifer is really Venus in early
Christianity, but that's another post.
> >
> > And ah yes, well, us dirty rotten magickians can't be corrupting the minds
of the public, now can we? Encouraging others to be Masters of their own
Destiny! Where are our moral compasses?! Gah, perish the thought of Liberation,
Inner Reflection and Knowing Thyself on public access. The public knows you,
your education is in their hands. (yeah right)
> >
> > Off to have some hemlock tea. ; ) May you get your computer soon. Welcome to
the group! May your possibilities be unlimited!
> >
> > Let the Rain of Blessings fall,
> > C
> >
> > --- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com, Roger Malafa <bhobflood@> wrote:
> > >
> > > wow, this was a great post. the statement about lots of virgin mothers
being alive today hit me right between the eyes. i never knew that the original
meaning of that statement in the bible was an unmarried mother. i assume that it
was expande years later to create the meaning given it today by the modern
christian churches. but this idea goes back to older "pagan" religions whos gods
had a miraculous virgin which most students are farmiliar with. i mean i learned
of it on the History channel. anyway i joined this group but do not have
personal internet, only the weak public library access. when i joined it told me
i could NOT join due to "administrative restriction of content". nice way of
saying we nazi/commie/fascist beaurocrats who control the "public" library dont
think you should be a part of this yahoo group. So i havent been able to access
the group to read all the posts. but i do appreciate getting enails like this.
keep them coming. until i
> >  get
> > > a new computer i remain mired in mediocrity of modern life, r
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: bagheera2332 <maratnahs@>
> > > To: newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Sun, May 16, 2010 5:00:50 AM
> > > Subject: [newhermeticstalk] A Minor Point
> > >
> > >  
> > > We brought up the whole woman's role in spirituality/magick/esoterica at
the book club meeting, based on the whole Mary Magdalene observation. It lead
into very interesting topics, that sort of related to the book, but not really.
There is more of an acceptance of prostitution in modern Dutch countries, but as
a commodity, and not in the historical perspective of the word 'prostitute.'
Just like there is a lack of historical perspective with the word Virgin. There
are a slew of Virgin Mothers on Earth today, because the word was used (in
historical perspective) to describe an unwed woman.
> > >
> > > An interesting translation, however. One word, in Dutch, for prostitute is
verlagen, meaning someone who sells their talent for an unworthy cause. In
English, this is also the definition of prostitute, too--one of them. We could
see how all the disciples might have been called prostitutes, yes? Again,
keeping it in historical perspective. If there was an enlightened Master who was
throwing out the spiritual control mechanism of karma and turning the popular
eye for a eye consciousness on it's heels, many would see those efforts as an
unworthy cause. The same as today we would see medical doctors trying to get
patients to self heal rather than be dependent on the pharmaceutical
multi-billion dollar juggernaut as those selling their talents to an unworthy
cause (even though prescription drugs is the number one leading cause of death
today).
> > >
> > > But lack of historical perspective is the mark of a poor scholar, anyway;
the ignorant leading the blind. The consciousness towards a prostitute during
that time was one of much higher respect than it is now. Much higher! A
prostitute was in par with being a teacher back then. A teacher.
> > >
> > > It was an interesting discussion on the rise and fall of women in
spirituality. My group consists of mainly Romana gypsies, historians, a few
Wiccans and two Shinto shamans. Romana gypsies have their own brand of
Catholicism that gave the whole masterpiece of consciousness a great and
wonderful contrast to the Wiccan perspective. Being a Classical Skeptic (another
great use of historical perspective in understanding what those two words used
together really stand for), I was fascinated with the whole discussion. It was
an interesting night. A bit organic in the topic of discussion, but the road
less traveled makes all the difference.
> > >
> > > Thank you for the opportunity to explore.
> > >
> >
>

This is where I go when I go to my happy place, that world of understanding, of
true Unity.

For me, the vehicle of getting there is to have fun with it all.

There is a French film, a short, called The Bodhisattva in the Metro. It's about
6 minutes long. No dialogue whatsoever. It is a train full of miserable people,
not looking at each other, going over and over silently in their minds their
lack of approval, their lack of control and safety, their need for separation or
their longing for Oneness. In comes a man, sits down, and starts to laugh...and
laugh...and laugh...and laugh. It becomes contagious. Suddenly, someone else
starts to giggle. And then someone else. By the end of the 6 minutes, everyone
is looking at each other, laughing their heads off, not a clue as to why, just
being in the moment of a full blown belly bellow of a laugh. And there is a
camaraderie that is so underlying, so palpable, it is felt through the film.
There is no replay of the misery inside their heads, just laughter, just union
with strangers, just this common pause and a silence found hidden in the sound
of laughter!

The last few seconds of the film is of this man that gets up and leaves the
train, a knowing smile on his face that speaks, 'My work here is done.' And then
we see him through the window of the first train sit down in a second train and
again, start to laugh as the train pulls away.

We get deeper in one night of merry making than an entire semester of exams and
study. It's when we relax and let our hair down that we are most open to tapping
foreheads together and coming up with some pretty profound veins of
consciousness. Whenever I have learned the best, it has always been at a table,
with food and drink and friends, sharing ideas, having fun with it all, being in
the moment and just letting it all out, a pot luck dinner, if you will, of ideas
and inspirations.

It gives new meaning to the adage of 'if you want to learn, you must first empty
your cup.' ; ) May your cup always be full, and may you always be willing to
empty it!

the 4 l's (love, life, laughter and learning),
Cheryl

--- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com, Roger Malafa <bhobflood@...> wrote:
>
> wow, that was realy interesting. deep. you and your comanions must be very
organized. after reading this i wondered what the world would be like if this
was common knowledge. if people behaved and related to one another with such an
understanding level. amazing. will write again. r
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: bagheera2332 <maratnahs@...>
> To: newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, May 21, 2010 6:20:08 PM
> Subject: [newhermeticstalk] Re: A Minor Point
>
>  
> Hey Roger,
>
> You gave me a great idea! We're finishing up the book and discussions tomorrow
night. And it's my turn to cook this week. I think I'll bring up the whole
Lucifer and Venus subject, since sometimes the Higher Magick is great, but a
little lofty, too. There is a balance. I'll bring up the subject for some
balance.
>
> I agree with you on the Goddess 'banishment.' Not only is Lucifer the Morning
Star (Venus, for making a five pointed star throughout the zodiacal path of the
year), but he is Hermes, as well. (Actually, Hermaphrodite is a perfect Union of
the Male and Female, of Hermes and Aphrodite. Here is the Alchemical Wedding).
Hermes, we know, as our patron God of Hermetics, is keeper of the Emerald
Tablet. Lucifer lost his emerald crown. Emerald is also the colour of lust and
Venus. Levi mistook the gargoyles outside the Cathedral of Notre Dame as the
Goat of Mendes, trying to accuse the priests of Devil Worship. He is way off.
First off, gargoyles were used to scare off evil spirit, and secondly, the tribe
of Mendes weren't evil. They came from the Black Sands, which means secret
knowledge. And they worshipped the goat, yes, but as a symbol of virility. They
were Tantric lovers. Mind you, able to tear your head off if their sacred
temples were invaded by those
>  who didn't understand, but they were Lucifer Worshippers because they were
Lovers, not because they performed Black Magick, as Levi alluded to with the
accusation.
>
> Anyway, not only is Lucifer the Goddess of Love and Lust as Venus, and the
Goat of Mendes as the Tantric Lover (the tribe of Mendes worshipped their women,
respected them as the Gateway into Higher Consciousness, giving great depth to
the word prostitute), but he was also Athena, as the Light Bringer, the Goddess
of Knowledge, and Isis as the Goddess of not only Magick, but Sexual Alchemy
(the serpent of wisdom climbing up the tree of knowledge). Eden did not have
apples in it. That is a reference to Venus. But historically, the place where
Eden is commonly thought to be WOULD have fashioned pomengrates, which is the
fruit of the Underworld and Peresphone and Hades.
>
> Lucifer is gloriously layered, and often misunderstood. Often clumped with
Satan or Saturn, which is fascinated with the Venus archetype as well as Her
torturer, as we see in many cultures myths.
>
> I'll gather my own thoughts and mix them with others and see what I can come
up with for a more focused 'essay' or, really, treatise on it. Why not? Great
fun. Shocks the public access people, too, which is good for them every once in
a while. Gets them out of the automaton mode.
>
> Hmmm, let's see...for such a topic I would have to serve clams on the half
shell with a champagne icing, seared scallops with an applewine and butter sauce
served over, well, angel hair. For dessert, Apple crumb with a devil's chocolate
filling, something sensual for the sauce...Strawberry Malabor, which is flambeed
with Grand Marnier. We can warm the left over Grand Marnier in snifters while we
all smoke cigars, including the women. Very phallic. That outta do it!
>
> ; )
>
> With a devilish smirk,
> Cheryl
>
> --- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com, Roger Malafa <bhobflood@> wrote:
> >
> > thank you for your very friendly email. i appreciate it. you are lucky to be
a part of the club you mentioned. also, you are very right about what you said
about lucifer. the reason i say this is that some months ago i discovered a
utube video series that talked about this. it was a series of fantastic magical
lessons concerning the true explaination of how to use the goetia. it was from
the 80s but was spellbinding viewing (pun intended). the gentleman narrating it
was a virtual fountain of information on how the ancient godesses and gods were
recodified into demons by the early christian leaders. it was quiet an
eye-opener. well. i am looking forward to receiving more posts from the group.
thanks again. bob
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: bagheera2332 <maratnahs@>
> > To: newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tue, May 18, 2010 2:43:26 PM
> > Subject: [newhermeticstalk] Re: A Minor Point
> >
> >  
> > I love the History Channel. Great entertainment. It's a great inspirational
point to track down your own research (usually found in places other than
Wikipedia). One of the only benefits of having geeky brothers is that they rub
elbows with professeurs. Our local group is very informal, since we have an
already existing book club for over a year now. And, well, we blend it with our
Foodie night. Cook, drink, eat, discuss. There will be times when we read the
Esoteric Book Club choice, and there will be times when we're off on our own
adventure, books and topics, but I am grateful for the mix of backgrounds. It
gives it a more balanced and unbiased approach. Especially with such a topic as
early Christianity. I could go off on how Lucifer is really Venus in early
Christianity, but that's another post.
> >
> > And ah yes, well, us dirty rotten magickians can't be corrupting the minds
of the public, now can we? Encouraging others to be Masters of their own
Destiny! Where are our moral compasses?! Gah, perish the thought of Liberation,
Inner Reflection and Knowing Thyself on public access. The public knows you,
your education is in their hands. (yeah right)
> >
> > Off to have some hemlock tea. ; ) May you get your computer soon. Welcome to
the group! May your possibilities be unlimited!
> >
> > Let the Rain of Blessings fall,
> > C
> >
> > --- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com, Roger Malafa <bhobflood@> wrote:
> > >
> > > wow, this was a great post. the statement about lots of virgin mothers
being alive today hit me right between the eyes. i never knew that the original
meaning of that statement in the bible was an unmarried mother. i assume that it
was expande years later to create the meaning given it today by the modern
christian churches. but this idea goes back to older "pagan" religions whos gods
had a miraculous virgin which most students are farmiliar with. i mean i learned
of it on the History channel. anyway i joined this group but do not have
personal internet, only the weak public library access. when i joined it told me
i could NOT join due to "administrative restriction of content". nice way of
saying we nazi/commie/fascist beaurocrats who control the "public" library dont
think you should be a part of this yahoo group. So i havent been able to access
the group to read all the posts. but i do appreciate getting enails like this.
keep them coming. until i
> > get
> > > a new computer i remain mired in mediocrity of modern life, r
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: bagheera2332 <maratnahs@>
> > > To: newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Sun, May 16, 2010 5:00:50 AM
> > > Subject: [newhermeticstalk] A Minor Point
> > >
> > >  
> > > We brought up the whole woman's role in spirituality/magick/esoterica at
the book club meeting, based on the whole Mary Magdalene observation. It lead
into very interesting topics, that sort of related to the book, but not really.
There is more of an acceptance of prostitution in modern Dutch countries, but as
a commodity, and not in the historical perspective of the word 'prostitute.'
Just like there is a lack of historical perspective with the word Virgin. There
are a slew of Virgin Mothers on Earth today, because the word was used (in
historical perspective) to describe an unwed woman.
> > >
> > > An interesting translation, however. One word, in Dutch, for prostitute is
verlagen, meaning someone who sells their talent for an unworthy cause. In
English, this is also the definition of prostitute, too--one of them. We could
see how all the disciples might have been called prostitutes, yes? Again,
keeping it in historical perspective. If there was an enlightened Master who was
throwing out the spiritual control mechanism of karma and turning the popular
eye for a eye consciousness on it's heels, many would see those efforts as an
unworthy cause. The same as today we would see medical doctors trying to get
patients to self heal rather than be dependent on the pharmaceutical
multi-billion dollar juggernaut as those selling their talents to an unworthy
cause (even though prescription drugs is the number one leading cause of death
today).
> > >
> > > But lack of historical perspective is the mark of a poor scholar, anyway;
the ignorant leading the blind. The consciousness towards a prostitute during
that time was one of much higher respect than it is now. Much higher! A
prostitute was in par with being a teacher back then. A teacher.
> > >
> > > It was an interesting discussion on the rise and fall of women in
spirituality. My group consists of mainly Romana gypsies, historians, a few
Wiccans and two Shinto shamans. Romana gypsies have their own brand of
Catholicism that gave the whole masterpiece of consciousness a great and
wonderful contrast to the Wiccan perspective. Being a Classical Skeptic (another
great use of historical perspective in understanding what those two words used
together really stand for), I was fascinated with the whole discussion. It was
an interesting night. A bit organic in the topic of discussion, but the road
less traveled makes all the difference.
> > >
> > > Thank you for the opportunity to explore.
> > >
> >
>

These are just the collective musings of our local group, some of which have had
more than 30 years experience with the esoteric, including myself...

We thought it a great plug for the Hermetic Order of Starlight, and anyone new
to Western Occult would benefit greatly from her perspective. However, much of
what she wrote is a common formula in most serious traditions. The Highways of
the Mind is ancient, and therefore found in many, many, many books. Again, I
wish I was 13 and picking up Hermetic Tradition for the first time again, this
would have been a great read. Her points are expected of any serious
practitioner. One SHOULD have daily practices. One SHOULD access the Archetypes
of the subconscious. One SHOULD train the mind. But there is an elitist tone and
a tug toward the exclusive ORDER mentality. I myself find that the only ultimate
teacher is Experience, but here, yet again (and eye roll) we find that Wisdom is
selective to the Chosen Few who are lucky to stumble and be 'Intiated' into the
Elusive, All Knowing, Lucky Order. And, the unwritten line is that of 'those who
picked up this book have come to it for a reason--you are ready to hear the
secrets within. You have been Chosen. You are among the Special Ones...like me.
Don't you want to belong? To the elusive group? This caters to your subconscious
need for not only Separation but Oneness.'

Interesting that it is encouraged to access an illogical database through a Map
of Consciousness...

Perhaps I have read too many books. I admit this may be my own personal trap.
But again, I am merely being the stenographer of the common feel of the book.
So, 15 people tonight have read too many books like this one in the past.

It was a good read, nevertheless. Per book, the applications of the practical
magick are yet to be seen. If someone was to stay with this Order and delve
deep, deep, deep, Truth would be the nugget found. This could be said of any
way, tradition, technique, Order, etc., however. If this is the first book read
of it's kind, what a great treasure it is! And pardon this cynical bag who has
read a few times around the block. Never mind the wizard behind the screen.
Revere Oz.

http://www.google.com/reader/item/tag:google.com,2005:reader/item/3b0358f4a90a09\
99

I could see how they were recorded at the same time. The same Muse runs through
them. My daughter's favourite is The Wake of Poisedon, but I think it's because
she's just now learning the Greek Myths. Poisedon is her favourite.

I like Emerson Lake and Palmer, but it's really King Crimson where they just
grooved with the music and experimented with different sounds. It has that
altered state consciousness to it that sort of gets smoothed over in ELP. I
guess you could say that of any artist. Early David Bowie is very surreal, later
stuff more superficial. Grateful Dead, Fleetwood Mac, even Julian Cope...didn't
he go on to the Bauhaus? It's when we're in that love of the flow, that Zen,
that the altered state comes through. Then Da Man comes in and kill joys the
vibe, or the ego arises and it becomes about the image, rather than the magick,
the idol rather than the ideal.

Don't get me wrong, ELP was pretty ideal, but it's the early King Crimson where
they really experimented and became the PyschoNauts of the Muses.

--- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com, Roger Malafa <bhobflood@...> wrote:
>
> that was another fantastic email. you are very lucky to have such
spiritual/inteligent friends. you mentioned Larks Toungs in Aspic... i was
priviledged to see KK when the did that tour back in, if memory serves me
'75...? It was the first time they played in Cleveland, Oh and it was
phenomenal. I still have that record. My favorite of theirs is still the two
record set, In the Court of the Crimson King and In the Wake of Posiedon. A
friend of mine who was aquainted with Greg Lake when they both lived in L.A.
back in the late 70s or early 80s said he told him they recorded those two at
the same time but they were released at different times. ont know if its true
but they are two of my all time favorite records. I have many questions to ask
you but i will write again. thanks r
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: bagheera2332 <maratnahs@...>
> To: newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sat, May 22, 2010 2:24:53 PM
> Subject: [newhermeticstalk] Re: A Minor Point
>
>  
> This is where I go when I go to my happy place, that world of understanding,
of true Unity.
>
> For me, the vehicle of getting there is to have fun with it all.
>
> There is a French film, a short, called The Bodhisattva in the Metro. It's
about 6 minutes long. No dialogue whatsoever. It is a train full of miserable
people, not looking at each other, going over and over silently in their minds
their lack of approval, their lack of control and safety, their need for
separation or their longing for Oneness. In comes a man, sits down, and starts
to laugh...and laugh...and laugh...and laugh. It becomes contagious. Suddenly,
someone else starts to giggle. And then someone else. By the end of the 6
minutes, everyone is looking at each other, laughing their heads off, not a clue
as to why, just being in the moment of a full blown belly bellow of a laugh. And
there is a camaraderie that is so underlying, so palpable, it is felt through
the film. There is no replay of the misery inside their heads, just laughter,
just union with strangers, just this common pause and a silence found hidden in
the sound of laughter!
>
> The last few seconds of the film is of this man that gets up and leaves the
train, a knowing smile on his face that speaks, 'My work here is done.' And then
we see him through the window of the first train sit down in a second train and
again, start to laugh as the train pulls away.
>
> We get deeper in one night of merry making than an entire semester of exams
and study. It's when we relax and let our hair down that we are most open to
tapping foreheads together and coming up with some pretty profound veins of
consciousness. Whenever I have learned the best, it has always been at a table,
with food and drink and friends, sharing ideas, having fun with it all, being in
the moment and just letting it all out, a pot luck dinner, if you will, of ideas
and inspirations.
>
> It gives new meaning to the adage of 'if you want to learn, you must first
empty your cup.' ; ) May your cup always be full, and may you always be willing
to empty it!
>
> the 4 l's (love, life, laughter and learning),
> Cheryl
>
> --- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com, Roger Malafa <bhobflood@> wrote:
> >
> > wow, that was realy interesting. deep. you and your comanions must be very
organized. after reading this i wondered what the world would be like if this
was common knowledge. if people behaved and related to one another with such an
understanding level. amazing. will write again. r
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: bagheera2332 <maratnahs@>
> > To: newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Fri, May 21, 2010 6:20:08 PM
> > Subject: [newhermeticstalk] Re: A Minor Point
> >
> >  
> > Hey Roger,
> >
> > You gave me a great idea! We're finishing up the book and discussions
tomorrow night. And it's my turn to cook this week. I think I'll bring up the
whole Lucifer and Venus subject, since sometimes the Higher Magick is great, but
a little lofty, too. There is a balance. I'll bring up the subject for some
balance.
> >
> > I agree with you on the Goddess 'banishment.' Not only is Lucifer the
Morning Star (Venus, for making a five pointed star throughout the zodiacal path
of the year), but he is Hermes, as well. (Actually, Hermaphrodite is a perfect
Union of the Male and Female, of Hermes and Aphrodite. Here is the Alchemical
Wedding). Hermes, we know, as our patron God of Hermetics, is keeper of the
Emerald Tablet. Lucifer lost his emerald crown. Emerald is also the colour of
lust and Venus. Levi mistook the gargoyles outside the Cathedral of Notre Dame
as the Goat of Mendes, trying to accuse the priests of Devil Worship. He is way
off. First off, gargoyles were used to scare off evil spirit, and secondly, the
tribe of Mendes weren't evil. They came from the Black Sands, which means secret
knowledge. And they worshipped the goat, yes, but as a symbol of virility. They
were Tantric lovers. Mind you, able to tear your head off if their sacred
temples were invaded by those
> > who didn't understand, but they were Lucifer Worshippers because they were
Lovers, not because they performed Black Magick, as Levi alluded to with the
accusation.
> >
> > Anyway, not only is Lucifer the Goddess of Love and Lust as Venus, and the
Goat of Mendes as the Tantric Lover (the tribe of Mendes worshipped their women,
respected them as the Gateway into Higher Consciousness, giving great depth to
the word prostitute), but he was also Athena, as the Light Bringer, the Goddess
of Knowledge, and Isis as the Goddess of not only Magick, but Sexual Alchemy
(the serpent of wisdom climbing up the tree of knowledge). Eden did not have
apples in it. That is a reference to Venus. But historically, the place where
Eden is commonly thought to be WOULD have fashioned pomengrates, which is the
fruit of the Underworld and Peresphone and Hades.
> >
> > Lucifer is gloriously layered, and often misunderstood. Often clumped with
Satan or Saturn, which is fascinated with the Venus archetype as well as Her
torturer, as we see in many cultures myths.
> >
> > I'll gather my own thoughts and mix them with others and see what I can come
up with for a more focused 'essay' or, really, treatise on it. Why not? Great
fun. Shocks the public access people, too, which is good for them every once in
a while. Gets them out of the automaton mode.
> >
> > Hmmm, let's see...for such a topic I would have to serve clams on the half
shell with a champagne icing, seared scallops with an applewine and butter sauce
served over, well, angel hair. For dessert, Apple crumb with a devil's chocolate
filling, something sensual for the sauce...Strawberry Malabor, which is flambeed
with Grand Marnier. We can warm the left over Grand Marnier in snifters while we
all smoke cigars, including the women. Very phallic. That outta do it!
> >
> > ; )
> >
> > With a devilish smirk,
> > Cheryl
> >
> > --- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com, Roger Malafa <bhobflood@> wrote:
> > >
> > > thank you for your very friendly email. i appreciate it. you are lucky to
be a part of the club you mentioned. also, you are very right about what you
said about lucifer. the reason i say this is that some months ago i discovered a
utube video series that talked about this. it was a series of fantastic magical
lessons concerning the true explaination of how to use the goetia. it was from
the 80s but was spellbinding viewing (pun intended). the gentleman narrating it
was a virtual fountain of information on how the ancient godesses and gods were
recodified into demons by the early christian leaders. it was quiet an
eye-opener. well. i am looking forward to receiving more posts from the group.
thanks again. bob
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: bagheera2332 <maratnahs@>
> > > To: newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tue, May 18, 2010 2:43:26 PM
> > > Subject: [newhermeticstalk] Re: A Minor Point
> > >
> > >  
> > > I love the History Channel. Great entertainment. It's a great
inspirational point to track down your own research (usually found in places
other than Wikipedia). One of the only benefits of having geeky brothers is that
they rub elbows with professeurs. Our local group is very informal, since we
have an already existing book club for over a year now. And, well, we blend it
with our Foodie night. Cook, drink, eat, discuss. There will be times when we
read the Esoteric Book Club choice, and there will be times when we're off on
our own adventure, books and topics, but I am grateful for the mix of
backgrounds. It gives it a more balanced and unbiased approach. Especially with
such a topic as early Christianity. I could go off on how Lucifer is really
Venus in early Christianity, but that's another post.
> > >
> > > And ah yes, well, us dirty rotten magickians can't be corrupting the minds
of the public, now can we? Encouraging others to be Masters of their own
Destiny! Where are our moral compasses?! Gah, perish the thought of Liberation,
Inner Reflection and Knowing Thyself on public access. The public knows you,
your education is in their hands. (yeah right)
> > >
> > > Off to have some hemlock tea. ; ) May you get your computer soon. Welcome
to the group! May your possibilities be unlimited!
> > >
> > > Let the Rain of Blessings fall,
> > > C
> > >
> > > --- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com, Roger Malafa <bhobflood@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > wow, this was a great post. the statement about lots of virgin mothers
being alive today hit me right between the eyes. i never knew that the original
meaning of that statement in the bible was an unmarried mother. i assume that it
was expande years later to create the meaning given it today by the modern
christian churches. but this idea goes back to older "pagan" religions whos gods
had a miraculous virgin which most students are farmiliar with. i mean i learned
of it on the History channel. anyway i joined this group but do not have
personal internet, only the weak public library access. when i joined it told me
i could NOT join due to "administrative restriction of content". nice way of
saying we nazi/commie/fascist beaurocrats who control the "public" library dont
think you should be a part of this yahoo group. So i havent been able to access
the group to read all the posts. but i do appreciate getting enails like this.
keep them coming. until
>  i
> > > get
> > > > a new computer i remain mired in mediocrity of modern life, r
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: bagheera2332 <maratnahs@>
> > > > To: newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Sun, May 16, 2010 5:00:50 AM
> > > > Subject: [newhermeticstalk] A Minor Point
> > > >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > We brought up the whole woman's role in spirituality/magick/esoterica at
the book club meeting, based on the whole Mary Magdalene observation. It lead
into very interesting topics, that sort of related to the book, but not really.
There is more of an acceptance of prostitution in modern Dutch countries, but as
a commodity, and not in the historical perspective of the word 'prostitute.'
Just like there is a lack of historical perspective with the word Virgin. There
are a slew of Virgin Mothers on Earth today, because the word was used (in
historical perspective) to describe an unwed woman.
> > > >
> > > > An interesting translation, however. One word, in Dutch, for prostitute
is verlagen, meaning someone who sells their talent for an unworthy cause. In
English, this is also the definition of prostitute, too--one of them. We could
see how all the disciples might have been called prostitutes, yes? Again,
keeping it in historical perspective. If there was an enlightened Master who was
throwing out the spiritual control mechanism of karma and turning the popular
eye for a eye consciousness on it's heels, many would see those efforts as an
unworthy cause. The same as today we would see medical doctors trying to get
patients to self heal rather than be dependent on the pharmaceutical
multi-billion dollar juggernaut as those selling their talents to an unworthy
cause (even though prescription drugs is the number one leading cause of death
today).
> > > >
> > > > But lack of historical perspective is the mark of a poor scholar,
anyway; the ignorant leading the blind. The consciousness towards a prostitute
during that time was one of much higher respect than it is now. Much higher! A
prostitute was in par with being a teacher back then. A teacher.
> > > >
> > > > It was an interesting discussion on the rise and fall of women in
spirituality. My group consists of mainly Romana gypsies, historians, a few
Wiccans and two Shinto shamans. Romana gypsies have their own brand of
Catholicism that gave the whole masterpiece of consciousness a great and
wonderful contrast to the Wiccan perspective. Being a Classical Skeptic (another
great use of historical perspective in understanding what those two words used
together really stand for), I was fascinated with the whole discussion. It was
an interesting night. A bit organic in the topic of discussion, but the road
less traveled makes all the difference.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for the opportunity to explore.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Hunky Dory is my favourite. Named a cat after Zyggy Stardust. I actually know
John Maclaughlin as Mahavishnu. Never knew his real name. I got into sound as a
form of altered state gateways when I was heavy into my Gurdjieff practices. I'm
getting more into now with my Ericksonian hypnosis practices, too.

I'll have to check out the rest of the stuff. Funny you should say that about
the German. Go with that. I'm a firm believer in following that tug that some
languages have over us. For me, it was Gaelic. Started to dream it first,
without ever having studied it, at first. Kinda freaked me out for a while. I
didn't know what to make of it, didn't know what was happening. I didn't even
know it was Gaelic. I went through many different languages to see if it
phonetically matched, even tracked down a Crowley recording of Enochian. Wasn't
Enochian. Thought of many different reasons for it happening, Past Life
Regression, brain hemorrhage, dream telepathy with someone in Scotland, my late
fiance speaking to me in Gaelic just to annoy me. I finally settle on the
conclusion (still unsure if it's the 'right' one, but it made the most sense to
me) was that there was only one time I was ever exposed to Gaelic on a regular
basis. It was the background noise of my best friend's parents as they were
conversing in Gaelic. We would go over there and do laundry, have dinner, just
be in a cozy home, and they were Welsh. They would speak Welsh Gaelic to each
other. And my late fiance was Scottish. So, the language in the dreams was my
subconscious bringing up yet another layer of healing, through the dreams. As
soon as I got the Rosetta Stone program and started to learn it, I could
understand the messages in the dreams. Sure enough, they were hidden messages
inside of there. And they were linked with those feelings and memories of a
comforts of the hearth--and healings of the heart.

So, follow that tug. There's something in the German for you. At least, that's
how I follow the path as it unfolds. Some would say, 'What use is Gaelic?' (and
you could probably find more of a practical use for German than Gaelic), but the
Soul knows what it wants, and speaks to us in weird ways.

I'd love to hear how your journey unfolds. Thanks for bringing alive the board
with some sound and passion.

C

--- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com, Roger Malafa <bhobflood@...> wrote:
>
> how right you are. yes elp is one of my all time faves. i actually was
privelidged to meet kieth emerson at a concert in Cleveland and then again in
Kent 3 months later. he is a very psychic scorpio. a very kind and inspirational
person who said some realy important words to me that have stuck with me to this
day. still have that first record and first kk. also hunky dorry and ziigy. all
of those have that '71 magic year vibe for me. how about bowies Low with eno?
thats my all time bowie fave. how about john mclaughlin? do you know Birds of
Fire and The Inner Mounting Flame from '71-'72? very spiritually inspirational
stuff. i just last thors-day picked up a Live BBC recordings from that period.
over 60 minutes of remastered mahavishnu bliss. whew!
> on a different line, have you ever watche Eliphas Leary's Lectures About Magic
on Utube? this is a not- to-be-missed series. from the very first episode on it
is a highly informative and very funny presentation that could easily be
presented on TV. He broadcasts from a town near Nestthiem, the home of
Cornielius Agrippa. There is an original German version an a very charming
english version. I like to listen in german because it is very magical. ive
watched them enough times that i understand what he is saying and its a neat
experience. also, i forgot to find the name of that other series i mentioned
which is also good. its the damned ADD. im writting a note. just have to
remember to check the note. ill write again in a few days when i get back to my
local library. i had to come to the city so i stopped in to the main county
library. 
> you only get free parking for one hour at the municiple parking lot. then its
2 bucks every 15 minutes. 
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: bagheera2332 <maratnahs@...>
> To: newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 8:53:31 PM
> Subject: [newhermeticstalk] Re: A Minor Point
>
>  
> I could see how they were recorded at the same time. The same Muse runs
through them. My daughter's favourite is The Wake of Poisedon, but I think it's
because she's just now learning the Greek Myths. Poisedon is her favourite.
>
> I like Emerson Lake and Palmer, but it's really King Crimson where they just
grooved with the music and experimented with different sounds. It has that
altered state consciousness to it that sort of gets smoothed over in ELP. I
guess you could say that of any artist. Early David Bowie is very surreal, later
stuff more superficial. Grateful Dead, Fleetwood Mac, even Julian Cope...didn't
he go on to the Bauhaus? It's when we're in that love of the flow, that Zen,
that the altered state comes through. Then Da Man comes in and kill joys the
vibe, or the ego arises and it becomes about the image, rather than the magick,
the idol rather than the ideal.
>
> Don't get me wrong, ELP was pretty ideal, but it's the early King Crimson
where they really experimented and became the PyschoNauts of the Muses.
>
> --- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com, Roger Malafa <bhobflood@> wrote:
> >
> > that was another fantastic email. you are very lucky to have such
spiritual/inteligent friends. you mentioned Larks Toungs in Aspic... i was
priviledged to see KK when the did that tour back in, if memory serves me
'75...? It was the first time they played in Cleveland, Oh and it was
phenomenal. I still have that record. My favorite of theirs is still the two
record set, In the Court of the Crimson King and In the Wake of Posiedon. A
friend of mine who was aquainted with Greg Lake when they both lived in L.A.
back in the late 70s or early 80s said he told him they recorded those two at
the same time but they were released at different times. ont know if its true
but they are two of my all time favorite records. I have many questions to ask
you but i will write again. thanks r
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: bagheera2332 <maratnahs@>
> > To: newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sat, May 22, 2010 2:24:53 PM
> > Subject: [newhermeticstalk] Re: A Minor Point
> >
> >  
> > This is where I go when I go to my happy place, that world of understanding,
of true Unity.
> >
> > For me, the vehicle of getting there is to have fun with it all.
> >
> > There is a French film, a short, called The Bodhisattva in the Metro. It's
about 6 minutes long. No dialogue whatsoever. It is a train full of miserable
people, not looking at each other, going over and over silently in their minds
their lack of approval, their lack of control and safety, their need for
separation or their longing for Oneness. In comes a man, sits down, and starts
to laugh...and laugh...and laugh...and laugh. It becomes contagious. Suddenly,
someone else starts to giggle. And then someone else. By the end of the 6
minutes, everyone is looking at each other, laughing their heads off, not a clue
as to why, just being in the moment of a full blown belly bellow of a laugh. And
there is a camaraderie that is so underlying, so palpable, it is felt through
the film. There is no replay of the misery inside their heads, just laughter,
just union with strangers, just this common pause and a silence found hidden in
the sound of laughter!
> >
> > The last few seconds of the film is of this man that gets up and leaves the
train, a knowing smile on his face that speaks, 'My work here is done.' And then
we see him through the window of the first train sit down in a second train and
again, start to laugh as the train pulls away.
> >
> > We get deeper in one night of merry making than an entire semester of exams
and study. It's when we relax and let our hair down that we are most open to
tapping foreheads together and coming up with some pretty profound veins of
consciousness. Whenever I have learned the best, it has always been at a table,
with food and drink and friends, sharing ideas, having fun with it all, being in
the moment and just letting it all out, a pot luck dinner, if you will, of ideas
and inspirations.
> >
> > It gives new meaning to the adage of 'if you want to learn, you must first
empty your cup.' ; ) May your cup always be full, and may you always be willing
to empty it!
> >
> > the 4 l's (love, life, laughter and learning),
> > Cheryl
> >
> > --- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com, Roger Malafa <bhobflood@> wrote:
> > >
> > > wow, that was realy interesting. deep. you and your comanions must be very
organized. after reading this i wondered what the world would be like if this
was common knowledge. if people behaved and related to one another with such an
understanding level. amazing. will write again. r
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: bagheera2332 <maratnahs@>
> > > To: newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Fri, May 21, 2010 6:20:08 PM
> > > Subject: [newhermeticstalk] Re: A Minor Point
> > >
> > >  
> > > Hey Roger,
> > >
> > > You gave me a great idea! We're finishing up the book and discussions
tomorrow night. And it's my turn to cook this week. I think I'll bring up the
whole Lucifer and Venus subject, since sometimes the Higher Magick is great, but
a little lofty, too. There is a balance. I'll bring up the subject for some
balance.
> > >
> > > I agree with you on the Goddess 'banishment.' Not only is Lucifer the
Morning Star (Venus, for making a five pointed star throughout the zodiacal path
of the year), but he is Hermes, as well. (Actually, Hermaphrodite is a perfect
Union of the Male and Female, of Hermes and Aphrodite. Here is the Alchemical
Wedding). Hermes, we know, as our patron God of Hermetics, is keeper of the
Emerald Tablet. Lucifer lost his emerald crown. Emerald is also the colour of
lust and Venus. Levi mistook the gargoyles outside the Cathedral of Notre Dame
as the Goat of Mendes, trying to accuse the priests of Devil Worship. He is way
off. First off, gargoyles were used to scare off evil spirit, and secondly, the
tribe of Mendes weren't evil. They came from the Black Sands, which means secret
knowledge. And they worshipped the goat, yes, but as a symbol of virility. They
were Tantric lovers. Mind you, able to tear your head off if their sacred
temples were invaded by those
> > > who didn't understand, but they were Lucifer Worshippers because they were
Lovers, not because they performed Black Magick, as Levi alluded to with the
accusation.
> > >
> > > Anyway, not only is Lucifer the Goddess of Love and Lust as Venus, and the
Goat of Mendes as the Tantric Lover (the tribe of Mendes worshipped their women,
respected them as the Gateway into Higher Consciousness, giving great depth to
the word prostitute), but he was also Athena, as the Light Bringer, the Goddess
of Knowledge, and Isis as the Goddess of not only Magick, but Sexual Alchemy
(the serpent of wisdom climbing up the tree of knowledge). Eden did not have
apples in it. That is a reference to Venus. But historically, the place where
Eden is commonly thought to be WOULD have fashioned pomengrates, which is the
fruit of the Underworld and Peresphone and Hades.
> > >
> > > Lucifer is gloriously layered, and often misunderstood. Often clumped with
Satan or Saturn, which is fascinated with the Venus archetype as well as Her
torturer, as we see in many cultures myths.
> > >
> > > I'll gather my own thoughts and mix them with others and see what I can
come up with for a more focused 'essay' or, really, treatise on it. Why not?
Great fun. Shocks the public access people, too, which is good for them every
once in a while. Gets them out of the automaton mode.
> > >
> > > Hmmm, let's see...for such a topic I would have to serve clams on the half
shell with a champagne icing, seared scallops with an applewine and butter sauce
served over, well, angel hair. For dessert, Apple crumb with a devil's chocolate
filling, something sensual for the sauce...Strawberry Malabor, which is flambeed
with Grand Marnier. We can warm the left over Grand Marnier in snifters while we
all smoke cigars, including the women. Very phallic. That outta do it!
> > >
> > > ; )
> > >
> > > With a devilish smirk,
> > > Cheryl
> > >
> > > --- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com, Roger Malafa <bhobflood@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > thank you for your very friendly email. i appreciate it. you are lucky
to be a part of the club you mentioned. also, you are very right about what you
said about lucifer. the reason i say this is that some months ago i discovered a
utube video series that talked about this. it was a series of fantastic magical
lessons concerning the true explaination of how to use the goetia. it was from
the 80s but was spellbinding viewing (pun intended). the gentleman narrating it
was a virtual fountain of information on how the ancient godesses and gods were
recodified into demons by the early christian leaders. it was quiet an
eye-opener. well. i am looking forward to receiving more posts from the group.
thanks again. bob
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: bagheera2332 <maratnahs@>
> > > > To: newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Tue, May 18, 2010 2:43:26 PM
> > > > Subject: [newhermeticstalk] Re: A Minor Point
> > > >
> > > > ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > I love the History Channel. Great entertainment. It's a great
inspirational point to track down your own research (usually found in places
other than Wikipedia). One of the only benefits of having geeky brothers is that
they rub elbows with professeurs. Our local group is very informal, since we
have an already existing book club for over a year now. And, well, we blend it
with our Foodie night. Cook, drink, eat, discuss. There will be times when we
read the Esoteric Book Club choice, and there will be times when we're off on
our own adventure, books and topics, but I am grateful for the mix of
backgrounds. It gives it a more balanced and unbiased approach. Especially with
such a topic as early Christianity. I could go off on how Lucifer is really
Venus in early Christianity, but that's another post.
> > > >
> > > > And ah yes, well, us dirty rotten magickians can't be corrupting the
minds of the public, now can we? Encouraging others to be Masters of their own
Destiny! Where are our moral compasses?! Gah, perish the thought of Liberation,
Inner Reflection and Knowing Thyself on public access. The public knows you,
your education is in their hands. (yeah right)
> > > >
> > > > Off to have some hemlock tea. ; ) May you get your computer soon.
Welcome to the group! May your possibilities be unlimited!
> > > >
> > > > Let the Rain of Blessings fall,
> > > > C
> > > >
> > > > --- In newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com, Roger Malafa <bhobflood@>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > wow, this was a great post. the statement about lots of virgin mothers
being alive today hit me right between the eyes. i never knew that the original
meaning of that statement in the bible was an unmarried mother. i assume that it
was expande years later to create the meaning given it today by the modern
christian churches. but this idea goes back to older "pagan" religions whos gods
had a miraculous virgin which most students are farmiliar with. i mean i learned
of it on the History channel. anyway i joined this group but do not have
personal internet, only the weak public library access. when i joined it told me
i could NOT join due to "administrative restriction of content". nice way of
saying we nazi/commie/fascist beaurocrats who control the "public" library dont
think you should be a part of this yahoo group. So i havent been able to access
the group to read all the posts. but i do appreciate getting enails like this.
keep them coming.
>  until
> > i
> > > > get
> > > > > a new computer i remain mired in mediocrity of modern life, r
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: bagheera2332 <maratnahs@>
> > > > > To: newhermeticstalk@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Sun, May 16, 2010 5:00:50 AM
> > > > > Subject: [newhermeticstalk] A Minor Point
> > > > >
> > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ 
> > > > > We brought up the whole woman's role in spirituality/magick/esoterica
at the book club meeting, based on the whole Mary Magdalene observation. It lead
into very interesting topics, that sort of related to the book, but not really.
There is more of an acceptance of prostitution in modern Dutch countries, but as
a commodity, and not in the historical perspective of the word 'prostitute.'
Just like there is a lack of historical perspective with the word Virgin. There
are a slew of Virgin Mothers on Earth today, because the word was used (in
historical perspective) to describe an unwed woman.
> > > > >
> > > > > An interesting translation, however. One word, in Dutch, for
prostitute is verlagen, meaning someone who sells their talent for an unworthy
cause. In English, this is also the definition of prostitute, too--one of them.
We could see how all the disciples might have been called prostitutes, yes?
Again, keeping it in historical perspective. If there was an enlightened Master
who was throwing out the spiritual control mechanism of karma and turning the
popular eye for a eye consciousness on it's heels, many would see those efforts
as an unworthy cause. The same as today we would see medical doctors trying to
get patients to self heal rather than be dependent on the pharmaceutical
multi-billion dollar juggernaut as those selling their talents to an unworthy
cause (even though prescription drugs is the number one leading cause of death
today).
> > > > >
> > > > > But lack of historical perspective is the mark of a poor scholar,
anyway; the ignorant leading the blind. The consciousness towards a prostitute
during that time was one of much higher respect than it is now. Much higher! A
prostitute was in par with being a teacher back then. A teacher.
> > > > >
> > > > > It was an interesting discussion on the rise and fall of women in
spirituality. My group consists of mainly Romana gypsies, historians, a few
Wiccans and two Shinto shamans. Romana gypsies have their own brand of
Catholicism that gave the whole masterpiece of consciousness a great and
wonderful contrast to the Wiccan perspective. Being a Classical Skeptic (another
great use of historical perspective in understanding what those two words used
together really stand for), I was fascinated with the whole discussion. It was
an interesting night. A bit organic in the topic of discussion, but the road
less traveled makes all the difference.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you for the opportunity to explore.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>