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ontheoriginofspecies · On the Origin of Species - DARWINIAN EVOLUTION, PALEONTOLOGY, ARCHEOLOGY
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On the Origin of Species   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #1163 of 7040 |
Re: The fundamental question is

> How do you mean "re-consideration of the 2nd law"? If you are
> concerned with there continuing to be order in spite of an infinity
> of elapsed time, then let me share with you how I see it! Think
> about assigning an increasing number, R, to the amount of randomness
> in the universe at any one time, T! Give it the value R = 1 at the
> present time; T = 0! When T =1, R =2! When T =2, R = 4! When T =
> 3, R = 8! For any given T, R = 2^T; that is, 2 raised to the power
> T! At any time in the future R, increases as T increases! For any
> time in the past, it is clear that as T increases "negatively", R
> decreases! So, for example, if T = -5, then R = 1/32! Clearly,
> there is some randomness at any time in the past, as well as in the
> future, only the randomness in the past is always less as we go
> backwards in time! Maybe this exercise clarifies your concern!
>
> Charles

I have pored over my thermodynamics texts and can't find any of the
above mentioned equations with regard to Entropy or the 2nd Law. For
that matter, I couldn't find a version of the 2nd Law that stated that
"randomness" was increasing with time: it's mostly about tendencies
toward thermal equilibrium and expanding chemical states.

That aside, I think the "Design" people have, at best, a poor
understanding of randomness, insofar as they often contrast it with
order. Anyone whose watched a lottery drawing can tell you that order
is as much a part of randomness as disorder, to the point that getting
a completely disordered result from a drawing - no consecutive numbers;
no groupings - is less likely than getting a result with some order.
By definition, for a process to be random, it must be able to produce
order at some finite probability. If the universe is truly random, it
must be able to produce order - preventing order from arising out of
randomness requires as much "Design" as the ID folks place on order.





Mon Apr 1, 2002 3:50 pm

this_science...
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Message #1163 of 7040 |
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... that ... came ... existed " ... this ... of ... How do you mean "re-consideration of the 2nd law"? If you are concerned with there continuing to be order...
chafihar
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Mar 31, 2002
7:45 pm

... I have pored over my thermodynamics texts and can't find any of the above mentioned equations with regard to Entropy or the 2nd Law. For that matter, I...
this_science_guy
this_science...
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Apr 1, 2002
3:50 pm

... infinity ... randomness ... the ... = ... power ... any ... the ... For ... that ... order ... getting ... numbers; ... order. ... produce ... it ... of ...
jsk33
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Apr 1, 2002
8:56 pm

... I think it's important to distinguish the time arrow and entropy from our perceptions about disorder. For Hawking's one broken coffee cup, I could give...
this_science_guy
this_science...
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Apr 1, 2002
9:42 pm

... universe ... and ... a ... universe ... is ... reference. ... as ... from ... cup, I ... humans ... fusion. ... dense ... of ... into a ... sodium ... ...
jsk33
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Apr 2, 2002
1:28 pm

... So, in other words, the time arrow is along ever increasing complexity in the universe. This, I think, matches with the examples I've given, that while...
this_science_guy
this_science...
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Apr 2, 2002
7:29 pm

... used ... complexity ... given, ... complex. ... implying ... as "energy ... being ... The caveat is of course very true ,I'd guess, so long as there is ...
jsk33
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Apr 2, 2002
8:36 pm

... I'd say you're mostly correct, with the exception that it would be more accurate to say that the input energy is greater than the AVAILABLE output, since...
this_science_guy
this_science...
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Apr 2, 2002
9:16 pm

... the ... in ... produced ... THAT ... more ... it's ... that ... than ... reverse ... 0. ... and ... = "entropy". ... heat by ... agent." ... cycle, ... it ...
jsk33
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Apr 3, 2002
12:54 am

... in ... This is due to the fact that no machine works at 1oo% efficiency! When Sysi pushes the rock, he well undoubtedly waste energy in tripping over a...
chafihar
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Apr 3, 2002
3:59 am

... universe ... and ... a ... universe ... is ... reference. ... as ... from ... cup, I ... humans ... fusion. ... dense ... of ... into a ... sodium ... ...
chafihar
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Apr 3, 2002
3:48 am

... infinity ... randomness ... the ... = ... power ... any ... the ... For ... that ... Of course not! Randomness is not a rigorous concept! But if you ...
chafihar
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Apr 2, 2002
2:13 am

... The point I was trying to make was that Entropy and randomness are NOT the same thing. Entropy is a state function defined by dS = dQ/T, it is not some...
this_science_guy
this_science...
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Apr 2, 2002
7:39 pm

... is ... to ... less ... and ... NOT ... it ... the ... atomic ... I agree! Charles...
chafihar
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Apr 3, 2002
4:29 am

... infinity ... randomness ... the ... = ... power ... any ... the ... For ... that ... order ... getting ... numbers; ... order. ... produce ... I am not...
chafihar
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Apr 2, 2002
3:09 am

... Think ... T ... R ... Clearly, ... the ... tendencies ... with ... is ... simple ... order. Yup- I tried to imply this in a previous post...
jsk33
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Apr 2, 2002
5:16 am

Sorry, I got my wires crossed. It was that guy chafihar. <br><br>But I disagree:<br><br>"If it is being carried out by beings - alien or otherwise - that exist...
tikouka
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Feb 28, 2002
3:25 am
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