Thanks for the reply. How did you feel reading Kardec's prayers and
from the Bible? If I have any ancestors helping me out, they are most
certainly Christian so they would probably benefit from Bible
readings. And I believe the Bible has a ton of wisdom in it. I just
wish I could find an unbiased translation. :)

The food you offer to your Egun shrine. . . how do you dispose of it?
Trash? I would think if you're doing it every day that it would be
very inconvenient to have to dispose of it anywhere else.

I will try to spend more time at my tiny little boveda talking through
my life with them. I have no doubts that over time things will become
more clear.

Curtis

Alafia Curtis:

As I said, reading the prayers was aggrevating because of the poorly
written english.  I was focusing more on the incorrectness and
difficulty to read than the intent of the prayer.  So, I stopped using
it.  I have a vast amount of African-Centered Metaphysical material;
inspirational materials - some Christian and some not.  I just use that
instead and it feels right. I read the Bible when I am "urged" to -
usually the Psalms, Proverbs and whatever else I am guided to read.
Most of the time I just let the bible open to whatever page (we call it
"cutting" in my community)...you'd be surprised how it usually has a
lesson or answer to a spiritual challenge I might be facing.

As for the daily food, yea, it goes in the trash.

One...
Oba Anya, Oni-Oni



Curtis wrote:

>Thanks for the reply. How did you feel reading Kardec's prayers and
>from the Bible? If I have any ancestors helping me out, they are most
>certainly Christian so they would probably benefit from Bible
>readings. And I believe the Bible has a ton of wisdom in it. I just
>wish I could find an unbiased translation. :)
>
>The food you offer to your Egun shrine. . . how do you dispose of it?
>Trash? I would think if you're doing it every day that it would be
>very inconvenient to have to dispose of it anywhere else.
>
>I will try to spend more time at my tiny little boveda talking through
>my life with them. I have no doubts that over time things will become
>more clear.
>
>Curtis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In santeriaonline@yahoogroups.com, "Curtis" <bonestud2000@...> wrote:
>
> Hmm. . . interesting. The last two readings I've got have both
> mentioned Egun (yes, I know a boveda is not for Egun) and taking care
> of them. I don't have a boveda so I found a small area where I could
> dedicate to them and just put a candle and a glass of water there.
> I'm glad I wasn't too off track. My Odu for this period prohibits
> flowers so I couldn't do that. But I put a fresh cup of coffee every
> morning and some rum every once in awhile. On the right track still?
>
> I know the boveda and the Egun shrine are different. And even though
> the boveda comes from a European tradition, it seems to me a very
> effective way to appease/thank/communicate with the muertos/spirits
> that effect/help us in our daily lives. It doesn't strike me as
> incongruous with our African roots.
>
> Now as far as communicating with them. You said that if you spend
> time at your boveda your guides will advise you how many glasses to
> have and what to put on it. How do they do this? Are we talking
> clairvoyance? Hearing voices? Gut feelings? Or what? That whole side
> of things is completely unknown to me. If there is an opposite
> of "sixth sense" that's what I have.
>
> Curtis
>

I was told by my padrino to put seven glasses there--six little ones and a
goblet.  That's
not necessarily for everybody, just for me.  In my case, the directions came up
in an Odu.
You sound much more attentive than I am--shame on me--but I have a white cloth,
the
seven glasses, a plain white seven day candle burning all the time, a photo of
my
grandparents, my grandma's rosary and (often) a fresh cup of coffee. You can
offer other
food, just not hot or with any salt added.  Information comes up in consulations
and I
write things down--it all accumulates.

Yes, I do get "gut feelings," but I check them out with my elders and with
common sense.
My grandfather adored coconut cake, so if I want to please him then I'll put
that out.
Sometimes things will "happen," like if the boveda is too dry I will spill the
water as I refill,
or if stuff has been ikky lately I will use very fresh spring water, or if the
candle burns
sooty it's time to take everything off, wipe it all down with Florida water, and
put it back
together.  When you start doing this and the candle burns clean again, you'll
have
confidence that you are communicating properly and it will get easier.

I think in a way it is like learning to understand what a baby needs, though
really we are
the babies.  When a baby cries or when my cats yowl, at first I have to
guess--fresh water?
food?  diaper?  cuddles?  nothing, just aggravated?--but as time goes on I learn
"oh, that's
the diaper yell, that's the dry food meow."

I've read your posts and you do have the sixth sense--common sense!

Doll

In a message dated 3/4/2006 11:51:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
awo1@... writes:

Alafia  Curtis:

As I said, reading the prayers was aggrevating because of the  poorly
written english.  I was focusing more on the incorrectness and
difficulty to read than the intent of the prayer.  So, I stopped  using
it.  I have a vast amount of African-Centered Metaphysical  material;
inspirational materials - some Christian and some not.  I  just use that
instead and it feels right. I read the Bible when I am  "urged" to -
usually the Psalms, Proverbs and whatever else I am guided to  read.
Most of the time I just let the bible open to whatever page  (we call it
"cutting" in my community)...you'd be surprised how it usually  has a
lesson or answer to a spiritual challenge I might be  facing.

As for the daily food, yea, it goes in the  trash.



Alafia my sister Oba Anya, Oni Oni,
I was reading your above reply to Curtis and would like to add my own 8
cents too, :) I have a boveda, its in the room I use for my office (computer
set-up, etc.) I have on it pictures of my ancestors I have never met, which
include my own birthparents, and granparents.  I was adopted at a young  age, as
were several of my birth siblings, (long story, I found them all, but  over 30
years later).  My birthfather was born a jew, my birthmother was  born
Christian, Irish Catholic.  I have on my boveda along with the many  glasses of
water,
a menora, a cross, a small african doll, dressed in purple,  and a list of
the names of my Lukumi ocha ancestors, along with a small candle  holder, but my
main point in writing this is to tell you and all that read this,  I also
have a small area in my backyard, with a large oak tree in it, that is  used for
ancestoral rites too.  I really feel more connected to all my  ancestors there
than I do at the boveda and I'm going to suspect its because its  outside in
the earth.  Oro to egun is done in that area prior to ocha's and  other
rituals.

Feeding the earth is very important, and as a gardener, I keep this in mind
constantly.  I use no pesticides, nor any non organic fertilizers.   All foods
that are put to egun, once removed are composted, to put back to the  earth.
The feathers from the animals are also added to the compost bins,  (very high
in nitrogen) and eventually, after it breaks down is added back to  the
garden soils.  The eje from washing orisha (in those buckets) can also  be added
to
either the compost piles, again a high source of nitrogen which  helps in the
process of breaking down the other organic materials.  I know  this is a long
way from the topic of this thread, "my boveda" but I thought I'd  add my 8
centavos, :)
Alberta, Olo Obatala


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

http://www.cutleryexpress.com/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Some of the people that have mentioned how you communicate with
spirits reminded me of a scene from a movie. . . wait. . .I'm thinkin
of the name. . . Richard Gere. . .  Pennsylvania. . .The Mothman
Propecies. There we go. Gere's character asked an expert why, if
this/these entity(ies) are so intelligent and spiritually enlightened,
why do we have such a hard time understanding what they are saying.
The expert says "well we're a whole lot more intelligent and
enlightened than a cockroach but we aren't very good at communicating
with IT are we?"

I always assume the "baby" is me. :) I sat down today in front of my
bovedita but no prayers came out. I'm telling you, it's a nasty side
effect of being raised Lutheran. I came out of that experience
thinking of out-loud prayer as silly. Still can't get over it. I know
prayer is NOT silly now, but the actual act of doing it is still
difficult. So my plan is to just sit there each day and eventually
things will flow--I know.

Funny thing is as soon as I set up that tiny little boveda I could
tell within a day things were straightening out in my life.

Curtis

LOL - my apologies - was trying to mail this to someone in the group
and it went to the whole group.

Denise

Bendicion Iya Alberta:

Adupe! An enriching 8 cents it is!

One...
Oba Anya, Oni-Oni


Albee7447@... wrote:

>
>In a message dated 3/4/2006 11:51:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>awo1@... writes:
>
>Alafia  Curtis:
>
>As I said, reading the prayers was aggrevating because of the  poorly
>written english.  I was focusing more on the incorrectness and
>difficulty to read than the intent of the prayer.  So, I stopped  using
>it.  I have a vast amount of African-Centered Metaphysical  material;
>inspirational materials - some Christian and some not.  I  just use that
>instead and it feels right. I read the Bible when I am  "urged" to -
>usually the Psalms, Proverbs and whatever else I am guided to  read.
>Most of the time I just let the bible open to whatever page  (we call it
>"cutting" in my community)...you'd be surprised how it usually  has a
>lesson or answer to a spiritual challenge I might be  facing.
>
>As for the daily food, yea, it goes in the  trash.
>
>
>
>Alafia my sister Oba Anya, Oni Oni,
>I was reading your above reply to Curtis and would like to add my own 8
>cents too, :) I have a boveda, its in the room I use for my office (computer
>set-up, etc.) I have on it pictures of my ancestors I have never met, which
>include my own birthparents, and granparents.  I was adopted at a young  age,
as
>were several of my birth siblings, (long story, I found them all, but  over 30
>years later).  My birthfather was born a jew, my birthmother was  born
>Christian, Irish Catholic.  I have on my boveda along with the many  glasses of
water,
>a menora, a cross, a small african doll, dressed in purple,  and a list of
>the names of my Lukumi ocha ancestors, along with a small candle  holder, but
my
>main point in writing this is to tell you and all that read this,  I also
>have a small area in my backyard, with a large oak tree in it, that is  used
for
>ancestoral rites too.  I really feel more connected to all my  ancestors there
>than I do at the boveda and I'm going to suspect its because its  outside in
>the earth.  Oro to egun is done in that area prior to ocha's and  other
>rituals.
>
>Feeding the earth is very important, and as a gardener, I keep this in mind
>constantly.  I use no pesticides, nor any non organic fertilizers.   All foods
>that are put to egun, once removed are composted, to put back to the  earth.
>The feathers from the animals are also added to the compost bins,  (very high
>in nitrogen) and eventually, after it breaks down is added back to  the
>garden soils.  The eje from washing orisha (in those buckets) can also  be
added to
>either the compost piles, again a high source of nitrogen which  helps in the
>process of breaking down the other organic materials.  I know  this is a long
>way from the topic of this thread, "my boveda" but I thought I'd  add my 8
>centavos, :)
>Alberta, Olo Obatala
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Alafia Curtis:

You know, I came up in a Holliness Church.  After a period of time, I
came to believe that prayer was very personal between you and your God.
From that, I developed the habit of praying silently.  It is something
that I continue to do today.  I do my Mojuba out loud, but, my personal
communication is done silently - with Spirit Guides, Egun and Ocha.  I
have gotten more comfortable with the idea of praying out loud, and do
it (usually without thought) from time to time, but mostly its' silent.

I don't believe the Spirits will hold it against you.  They are more
interested in your true feelings and actions taken out of sheer love and
respect....from the heart, than with you doing something from "rote"
because this is how others do it.  These are your Spiritual Guides and
Protectors....they will feel you---and you them.

One....
Oba Anya, Oni-Oni


Curtis wrote:

>Some of the people that have mentioned how you communicate with
>spirits reminded me of a scene from a movie. . . wait. . .I'm thinkin
>of the name. . . Richard Gere. . .  Pennsylvania. . .The Mothman
>Propecies. There we go. Gere's character asked an expert why, if
>this/these entity(ies) are so intelligent and spiritually enlightened,
>why do we have such a hard time understanding what they are saying.
>The expert says "well we're a whole lot more intelligent and
>enlightened than a cockroach but we aren't very good at communicating
>with IT are we?"
>
>I always assume the "baby" is me. :) I sat down today in front of my
>bovedita but no prayers came out. I'm telling you, it's a nasty side
>effect of being raised Lutheran. I came out of that experience
>thinking of out-loud prayer as silly. Still can't get over it. I know
>prayer is NOT silly now, but the actual act of doing it is still
>difficult. So my plan is to just sit there each day and eventually
>things will flow--I know.
>
>Funny thing is as soon as I set up that tiny little boveda I could
>tell within a day things were straightening out in my life.
>
>Curtis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Bendiciion Iya Denise:

Modupe to Eleggua.....we all need good knives in everyday life and Ocha.
Lord knows I know some Priests who could use some!

One....
Oba Anya, Oni-Oni



Denise Oliver-Velez wrote:

>LOL - my apologies - was trying to mail this to someone in the group
>and it went to the whole group.
>
>Denise
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I also think that is interesting that when every I am
not paying close enough attention to my egun or boveda
that this yahoogroup always starts a discussion about
it.  Much Love,
Iyawo Oshun

--- doll_particular <doll_particular@...>
wrote:

> --- In santeriaonline@yahoogroups.com, "Curtis"
> <bonestud2000@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hmm. . . interesting. The last two readings I've
> got have both
> > mentioned Egun (yes, I know a boveda is not for
> Egun) and taking care
> > of them. I don't have a boveda so I found a small
> area where I could
> > dedicate to them and just put a candle and a glass
> of water there.
> > I'm glad I wasn't too off track. My Odu for this
> period prohibits
> > flowers so I couldn't do that. But I put a fresh
> cup of coffee every
> > morning and some rum every once in awhile. On the
> right track still?
> >
> > I know the boveda and the Egun shrine are
> different. And even though
> > the boveda comes from a European tradition, it
> seems to me a very
> > effective way to appease/thank/communicate with
> the muertos/spirits
> > that effect/help us in our daily lives. It doesn't
> strike me as
> > incongruous with our African roots.
> >
> > Now as far as communicating with them. You said
> that if you spend
> > time at your boveda your guides will advise you
> how many glasses to
> > have and what to put on it. How do they do this?
> Are we talking
> > clairvoyance? Hearing voices? Gut feelings? Or
> what? That whole side
> > of things is completely unknown to me. If there is
> an opposite
> > of "sixth sense" that's what I have.
> >
> > Curtis
> >
>
> I was told by my padrino to put seven glasses
> there--six little ones and a goblet.  That's
> not necessarily for everybody, just for me.  In my
> case, the directions came up in an Odu.
> You sound much more attentive than I am--shame on
> me--but I have a white cloth, the
> seven glasses, a plain white seven day candle
> burning all the time, a photo of my
> grandparents, my grandma's rosary and (often) a
> fresh cup of coffee. You can offer other
> food, just not hot or with any salt added.
> Information comes up in consulations and I
> write things down--it all accumulates.
>
> Yes, I do get "gut feelings," but I check them out
> with my elders and with common sense.
> My grandfather adored coconut cake, so if I want to
> please him then I'll put that out.
> Sometimes things will "happen," like if the boveda
> is too dry I will spill the water as I refill,
> or if stuff has been ikky lately I will use very
> fresh spring water, or if the candle burns
> sooty it's time to take everything off, wipe it all
> down with Florida water, and put it back
> together.  When you start doing this and the candle
> burns clean again, you'll have
> confidence that you are communicating properly and
> it will get easier.
>
> I think in a way it is like learning to understand
> what a baby needs, though really we are
> the babies.  When a baby cries or when my cats yowl,
> at first I have to guess--fresh water?
> food?  diaper?  cuddles?  nothing, just
> aggravated?--but as time goes on I learn "oh, that's
>
> the diaper yell, that's the dry food meow."
>
> I've read your posts and you do have the sixth
> sense--common sense!
>
> Doll
>
>
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

--- In santeriaonline@yahoogroups.com, OnyOny <awo1@...> wrote:
>
> Alafia Curtis:
>
> You know, I came up in a Holliness Church.  After a period of time, I
> came to believe that prayer was very personal between you and your
God.
> From that, I developed the habit of praying silently.  It is something
> that I continue to do today.  I do my Mojuba out loud, but, my personal
> communication is done silently - with Spirit Guides, Egun and Ocha.  I
> have gotten more comfortable with the idea of praying out loud, and do
> it (usually without thought) from time to time, but mostly its' silent.

Hmmm. . .someone else who does it like me. :) Yes, I am more
comfortable with silent prayer. Come to think of it, the only time I
actually enjoy praying out loud is when I'm taking care of Orula. And
then I whisper as it is the breathe that helps identify your Orula
with you.

Now that I don't have to worry about saying anything out loud I will
definitely spend more time with them. I remember the day I received my
Elegua and I was supposed to be spending time with him praying with
the maraca and the candle going and every time my padrino walked in
I'd be silent and he'd say "pidele!!" and I'm like "I AM!!!" haha.

Anyways. . . good thread.

Curtis

Alafia Oni Oni,

Thank you for posting this reply to Curtis.  It has helped me also.
I pray silently most of the time, and was told in the past that I
should be praying out loud.  The only prayers that I have felt
comfortable saying out loud is "Our Father and Hail Mary".  Praying
silently just felt more natural to me.

Ashe

--- In santeriaonline@yahoogroups.com, OnyOny <awo1@...> wrote:
>
> Alafia Curtis:
>
> You know, I came up in a Holliness Church.  After a period of time,
I
> came to believe that prayer was very personal between you and your
God.
> From that, I developed the habit of praying silently.  It is
something
> that I continue to do today.  I do my Mojuba out loud, but, my
personal
> communication is done silently - with Spirit Guides, Egun and
Ocha.  I
> have gotten more comfortable with the idea of praying out loud, and
do
> it (usually without thought) from time to time, but mostly its'
silent.
>
> I don't believe the Spirits will hold it against you.  They are
more
> interested in your true feelings and actions taken out of sheer
love and
> respect....from the heart, than with you doing something
from "rote"
> because this is how others do it.  These are your Spiritual Guides
and
> Protectors....they will feel you---and you them.
>
> One....
> Oba Anya, Oni-Oni
>
>
> Curtis wrote:
>
> >Some of the people that have mentioned how you communicate with
> >spirits reminded me of a scene from a movie. . . wait. . .I'm
thinkin
> >of the name. . . Richard Gere. . .  Pennsylvania. . .The Mothman
> >Propecies. There we go. Gere's character asked an expert why, if
> >this/these entity(ies) are so intelligent and spiritually
enlightened,
> >why do we have such a hard time understanding what they are saying.
> >The expert says "well we're a whole lot more intelligent and
> >enlightened than a cockroach but we aren't very good at
communicating
> >with IT are we?"
> >
> >I always assume the "baby" is me. :) I sat down today in front of
my
> >bovedita but no prayers came out. I'm telling you, it's a nasty
side
> >effect of being raised Lutheran. I came out of that experience
> >thinking of out-loud prayer as silly. Still can't get over it. I
know
> >prayer is NOT silly now, but the actual act of doing it is still
> >difficult. So my plan is to just sit there each day and eventually
> >things will flow--I know.
> >
> >Funny thing is as soon as I set up that tiny little boveda I could
> >tell within a day things were straightening out in my life.
> >
> >Curtis
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Alafia,

In addition, I do pray to my Warriors out loud and to Yemaya at the
beach, but to my Egun, always silently.  :-)

--- In santeriaonline@yahoogroups.com, "Brooke" <Bjamaica1@...> wrote:
>
> Alafia Oni Oni,
>
> Thank you for posting this reply to Curtis.  It has helped me
also.
> I pray silently most of the time, and was told in the past that I
> should be praying out loud.  The only prayers that I have felt
> comfortable saying out loud is "Our Father and Hail Mary".  Praying
> silently just felt more natural to me.
>
> Ashe
>
> --- In santeriaonline@yahoogroups.com, OnyOny <awo1@> wrote:
> >
> > Alafia Curtis:
> >
> > You know, I came up in a Holliness Church.  After a period of
time,
> I
> > came to believe that prayer was very personal between you and
your
> God.
> > From that, I developed the habit of praying silently.  It is
> something
> > that I continue to do today.  I do my Mojuba out loud, but, my
> personal
> > communication is done silently - with Spirit Guides, Egun and
> Ocha.  I
> > have gotten more comfortable with the idea of praying out loud,
and
> do
> > it (usually without thought) from time to time, but mostly its'
> silent.
> >
> > I don't believe the Spirits will hold it against you.  They are
> more
> > interested in your true feelings and actions taken out of sheer
> love and
> > respect....from the heart, than with you doing something
> from "rote"
> > because this is how others do it.  These are your Spiritual
Guides
> and
> > Protectors....they will feel you---and you them.
> >
> > One....
> > Oba Anya, Oni-Oni
> >
> >
> > Curtis wrote:
> >
> > >Some of the people that have mentioned how you communicate with
> > >spirits reminded me of a scene from a movie. . . wait. . .I'm
> thinkin
> > >of the name. . . Richard Gere. . .  Pennsylvania. . .The Mothman
> > >Propecies. There we go. Gere's character asked an expert why, if
> > >this/these entity(ies) are so intelligent and spiritually
> enlightened,
> > >why do we have such a hard time understanding what they are
saying.
> > >The expert says "well we're a whole lot more intelligent and
> > >enlightened than a cockroach but we aren't very good at
> communicating
> > >with IT are we?"
> > >
> > >I always assume the "baby" is me. :) I sat down today in front
of
> my
> > >bovedita but no prayers came out. I'm telling you, it's a nasty
> side
> > >effect of being raised Lutheran. I came out of that experience
> > >thinking of out-loud prayer as silly. Still can't get over it. I
> know
> > >prayer is NOT silly now, but the actual act of doing it is still
> > >difficult. So my plan is to just sit there each day and
eventually
> > >things will flow--I know.
> > >
> > >Funny thing is as soon as I set up that tiny little boveda I
could
> > >tell within a day things were straightening out in my life.
> > >
> > >Curtis
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

It's very important for all of us to remember that
santeria is a syncretic religion, and the boveda,
besides it is a combination of Kardec spiritism and
Afro spiritism should follow the basic rules. No one
has to change its way to pray, a catholic must say out
loud the prayers, remember that the entities can be
others than solely our family for example there are
gypsies, indians, afro ones, and they like the out
loud prayers.
Now, what kind of?, well, the christians in general
can use the "Our Father" the catholics must add some
prayers to the virgin, not the luterans and the others
who do not have that belief. If you are jewish, use
the prayers that are usual for the deads i think is
the kadosh, I don't know what a woman has to do
because I think it's forbiden for them to say this
prayer but there are many others that are good for
this case, also the mahometans has ways to pray
according to the Coran.
Remember, do as the general dictates in your own
religion.

  --- Curtis <bonestud2000@...> escribió:

> Some of the people that have mentioned how you
> communicate with
> spirits reminded me of a scene from a movie. . .
> wait. . .I'm thinkin
> of the name. . . Richard Gere. . .  Pennsylvania. .
> .The Mothman
> Propecies. There we go. Gere's character asked an
> expert why, if
> this/these entity(ies) are so intelligent and
> spiritually enlightened,
> why do we have such a hard time understanding what
> they are saying.
> The expert says "well we're a whole lot more
> intelligent and
> enlightened than a cockroach but we aren't very good
> at communicating
> with IT are we?"
>
> I always assume the "baby" is me. :) I sat down
> today in front of my
> bovedita but no prayers came out. I'm telling you,
> it's a nasty side
> effect of being raised Lutheran. I came out of that
> experience
> thinking of out-loud prayer as silly. Still can't
> get over it. I know
> prayer is NOT silly now, but the actual act of doing
> it is still
> difficult. So my plan is to just sit there each day
> and eventually
> things will flow--I know.
>
> Funny thing is as soon as I set up that tiny little
> boveda I could
> tell within a day things were straightening out in
> my life.
>
> Curtis
>
>
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
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This was excelent. each boveda is personal, now, Did
you know that the boveda should be open? this is made
by an "espiritista", you also got to be crowned
spiritually, its not expensive, in a spiritual mass.

  --- Albee7447@... escribió:

>
> In a message dated 3/4/2006 11:51:22 P.M. Eastern
> Standard Time,
> awo1@... writes:
>
> Alafia  Curtis:
>
> As I said, reading the prayers was aggrevating
> because of the  poorly
> written english.  I was focusing more on the
> incorrectness and
> difficulty to read than the intent of the prayer.
> So, I stopped  using
> it.  I have a vast amount of African-Centered
> Metaphysical  material;
> inspirational materials - some Christian and some
> not.  I  just use that
> instead and it feels right. I read the Bible when I
> am  "urged" to -
> usually the Psalms, Proverbs and whatever else I am
> guided to  read.
> Most of the time I just let the bible open to
> whatever page  (we call it
> "cutting" in my community)...you'd be surprised how
> it usually  has a
> lesson or answer to a spiritual challenge I might be
>  facing.
>
> As for the daily food, yea, it goes in the  trash.
>
>
>
> Alafia my sister Oba Anya, Oni Oni,
> I was reading your above reply to Curtis and would
> like to add my own 8
> cents too, :) I have a boveda, its in the room I use
> for my office (computer
> set-up, etc.) I have on it pictures of my ancestors
> I have never met, which
> include my own birthparents, and granparents.  I was
> adopted at a young  age, as
> were several of my birth siblings, (long story, I
> found them all, but  over 30
> years later).  My birthfather was born a jew, my
> birthmother was  born
> Christian, Irish Catholic.  I have on my boveda
> along with the many  glasses of water,
> a menora, a cross, a small african doll, dressed in
> purple,  and a list of
> the names of my Lukumi ocha ancestors, along with a
> small candle  holder, but my
> main point in writing this is to tell you and all
> that read this,  I also
> have a small area in my backyard, with a large oak
> tree in it, that is  used for
> ancestoral rites too.  I really feel more connected
> to all my  ancestors there
> than I do at the boveda and I'm going to suspect its
> because its  outside in
> the earth.  Oro to egun is done in that area prior
> to ocha's and  other
> rituals.
>
> Feeding the earth is very important, and as a
> gardener, I keep this in mind
> constantly.  I use no pesticides, nor any non
> organic fertilizers.   All foods
> that are put to egun, once removed are composted, to
> put back to the  earth.
> The feathers from the animals are also added to the
> compost bins,  (very high
> in nitrogen) and eventually, after it breaks down is
> added back to  the
> garden soils.  The eje from washing orisha (in those
> buckets) can also  be added to
> either the compost piles, again a high source of
> nitrogen which  helps in the
> process of breaking down the other organic
> materials.  I know  this is a long
> way from the topic of this thread, "my boveda" but I
> thought I'd  add my 8
> centavos, :)
> Alberta, Olo Obatala
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


__________________________________________________
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My godparents told me that i was able to "tirar cocos" to ask anything
i needed to know. and to help others,however they failed to tell me
how.Ive seen it done a million times but im afraid to attemt it cause
im afraid to do or say something wrong. can someone please tell me if
im out of line asking this question.if not i would like to know the
correct way to go about this.I ask my godparents to explain, but them
being cuban,i can bareley keep up , let alone understand. HELP...
                                             Thank You,
                                               Lynda

Ache.
    The Diaspora is the way to do thanks the syncretic habilitity of Ocha to
preserve itself  "rezandole a todos Los Santos". It's Santeria as Lukumi
expresion of Ocha in Onile the emerging religion. Please undertantand religion
as rituals of the memory of Oyo. When all was reunite.
   Bogbo to Ache Olodumare

   Obakinioba Obatesi
   www.munanso.com

Omonire <omonire@...> wrote:
   It's very important for all of us to remember that
santeria is a syncretic religion, and the boveda,
besides it is a combination of Kardec spiritism and
Afro spiritism should follow the basic rules. No one
has to change its way to pray, a catholic must say out
loud the prayers, remember that the entities can be
others than solely our family for example there are
gypsies, indians, afro ones, and they like the out
loud prayers.
Now, what kind of?, well, the christians in general
can use the "Our Father" the catholics must add some
prayers to the virgin, not the luterans and the others
who do not have that belief. If you are jewish, use
the prayers that are usual for the deads i think is
the kadosh, I don't know what a woman has to do
because I think it's forbiden for them to say this
prayer but there are many others that are good for
this case, also the mahometans has ways to pray
according to the Coran.
Remember, do as the general dictates in your own
religion.

--- Curtis escribió:

> Some of the people that have mentioned how you
> communicate with
> spirits reminded me of a scene from a movie. . .
> wait. . .I'm thinkin
> of the name. . . Richard Gere. . . Pennsylvania. .
> .The Mothman
> Propecies. There we go. Gere's character asked an
> expert why, if
> this/these entity(ies) are so intelligent and
> spiritually enlightened,
> why do we have such a hard time understanding what
> they are saying.
> The expert says "well we're a whole lot more
> intelligent and
> enlightened than a cockroach but we aren't very good
> at communicating
> with IT are we?"
>
> I always assume the "baby" is me. :) I sat down
> today in front of my
> bovedita but no prayers came out. I'm telling you,
> it's a nasty side
> effect of being raised Lutheran. I came out of that
> experience
> thinking of out-loud prayer as silly. Still can't
> get over it. I know
> prayer is NOT silly now, but the actual act of doing
> it is still
> difficult. So my plan is to just sit there each day
> and eventually
> things will flow--I know.
>
> Funny thing is as soon as I set up that tiny little
> boveda I could
> tell within a day things were straightening out in
> my life.
>
> Curtis
>
>
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
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Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis!
Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/




Yahoo! Groups Links











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lynda....

As usual, always follow the guidance and regulations of your  Godparent.
Anyone has the capacity to "Tirar coco"/ throw Obi to an orisha  or eggun (As
long as that orisha or eggun is yours.)

The first step is to learn your Majuba. Majuba is asking the blessings  in
lukumi. Once you have learned this you will incorporate your lineage,  your
padrino and iyubona.

My suggestion, is to print out and then go to your godparents to see if  they
will OK, this form of Mayuba.

Most important, before you embark on what seems to be a simple Obi, learn
the signs and form of questions you can ask.  Although it seems simple and  easy
enough, its actually complex.  Learn to throw out a bad letter and ask  the
question correctly.

Oni okoto.

In a message dated 03/06/2006 6:15:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
lynda.mendoza@... writes:

My  godparents told me that i was able to "tirar cocos" to ask anything
i  needed to know. and to help others,however they failed to tell me
how.Ive  seen it done a million times but im afraid to attemt it cause
im afraid to  do or say something wrong. can someone please tell me if
im out of line  asking this question.if not i would like to know the
correct way to go  about this.I ask my godparents to explain, but them
being cuban,i can  bareley keep up , let alone understand. HELP...
Thank You,
Lynda





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

YORUBA PRAYER AND ORISA FOODS WORKSHOPS!!!


Take a look at our new website!  www.asaforitifa.org

____________________________________________________


Asaforitifa Temple of Orisa is proud to announce our Orisa Foods
Workshops and Yoruba Prayer Workshops!


The Orisa Foods workshops will take place at Saturday the 11th, 18th,
and 25th of March at 12pm in Bed-Stuy, Brooklyn. Topics will include:

- Foods for various Orisa
- Food preparation
- Materials and tools for food preparation
- Comparisons of Diasporal variations of Yoruba foods
- "Table" ettiquette and making offerings to the Orisa
- Methods of presenting foods to the Orisa

Participants will require writing materials. Audio recording devices
are optional but suggested. We will be preparing some of these foods
so be prepared to work and enjoy some of these meals. The workshop
will last about 3 hours.  The cost for registration is $75.  Folks
are required to RSVP for the workshop as space is limited.

In addition we will be facilitating the Yoruba Prayer Workshop as an
opportunity for devotees and priests of the Orisa tradition to
enhance their knowledge and practice of prayer. Topics will include:

- Prayer cycles and worship days
- Prayer postures
- Preparation for prayer
- Oriki and salutes/hails for various Orisa
- Foods for various Orisa
- Tools for prayer and invoking ase
- The meaning and dynamics of ijuba (paying homage)

The cost for registration for this workshop is $50 and it will be
held Sunday March 12th, 19th, and 26th at 4pm in Bedstuy, Brooklyn.
The workshop will be an hour and a half long with time for questions
and answers. Writing materials are required and tape recorders are
suggested. Folks are required to RSVP.

Please call 718-513-0800 to RSVP and for location.


Baba Aiku
owner of asaforitifa.org and indigeneorisa yahoo group

Thank You most sincerely

--- In santeriaonline@yahoogroups.com, oniokoto@... wrote:
>
>
> Lynda....
>
> As usual, always follow the guidance and regulations of your
Godparent.
> Anyone has the capacity to "Tirar coco"/ throw Obi to an orisha  or
eggun (As
> long as that orisha or eggun is yours.)
>
> The first step is to learn your Majuba. Majuba is asking the
blessings  in
> lukumi. Once you have learned this you will incorporate your
lineage,  your
> padrino and iyubona.
>
> My suggestion, is to print out and then go to your godparents to
see if  they
> will OK, this form of Mayuba.
>
> Most important, before you embark on what seems to be a simple Obi,
learn
> the signs and form of questions you can ask.  Although it seems
simple and  easy
> enough, its actually complex.  Learn to throw out a bad letter and
ask  the
> question correctly.
>
> Oni okoto.
>
> In a message dated 03/06/2006 6:15:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> lynda.mendoza@... writes:
>
> My  godparents told me that i was able to "tirar cocos" to ask
anything
> i  needed to know. and to help others,however they failed to tell
me
> how.Ive  seen it done a million times but im afraid to attemt it
cause
> im afraid to  do or say something wrong. can someone please tell me
if
> im out of line  asking this question.if not i would like to know
the
> correct way to go  about this.I ask my godparents to explain, but
them
> being cuban,i can  bareley keep up , let alone understand. HELP...
> Thank You,
> Lynda
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

CLOTHING DRIVE FOR ORISA COMMUNITY OF YORUBALAND!!!

***Please forward this to all your friends and elists.***

Greetings all.  This is Baba Aiku, the owner and moderator of
Indigeneorisa yahoo group and leader of Asaforitifa Temple of Orisa.
I'll be travelling to Yorubaland at the end of march to the end of
April and I will be doing a clothing drive to take to our Orisa folks
back home in the source of Orisa worldwide.

Since my years of travelling to Yorubaland I have been doing my best
as an individual to help our brothers and sisters in Yorubaland by
bringing clothing and helping folks financially.  It is now time that
we as a community of traditionalists and ALL Orisa devotees show our
support for our Orisa people in West Africa.

Baba Joe Quinones and his wife have already had a successful clothing
drive for Yorubaland.  As Baba Joe, alaganju, has pointed out, the
Orisa community is among the poorest of an already disadvantaged
population of Nigerians.  Orisa devotees and priests are cut off from
charities for Christians and Muslims in Nigeria from Europe and North
America, essentially all western assistance.  In addition Orisa folks
in Yorubaland get little support to help maintain shrines, help
proliferate the Orisa tradition in its homeland, and live more
productive lives from many of our own Orisa people in the West.

I'm having my home as a drop-off point, but we need more folks that
will volunteer their home for dropping of clothing.  Folks that are
willing to contribute can keep a large garbage can accessible to
deposit clothing while at work.  If interesting in assisting in this
project please contact me.

We are asking folks to volunteer their home as a drop-off point,
donate new or lightly used clothing for men, women and children,
and/or donate money to cover the costs for the freight on the plane.
The cost of extra baggage is $80 per extra 70lb bag.

I'm asking all that can make a clothing donation to please do so, and
all that can make a monetary pledge please contact me with your
pledge and send a money order, check, or make a payment through
paypal.

Folks can send checks or drop off clothing donations to the following:

Nathan Lugo
222 Monroe Street apt 8
Brooklyn, NY 11216

718-513-0800
iwindara@...
aborisa@...

The clothing will be distributed to Orisa folks in the areas of
Osogbo and Oyo township.  In addition, the priests in each area will
pray for the folks making donations in appreciation for support from
Orisa folks here in the States.

I thank you in advance for your support of OUR PEOPLE!

Baba Aiku
owner/moderator of Indigeneorisa
chief priest of Asaforitifa Temple of Orisa

Nathan Lugo
222 Monroe Street apt 8
Brooklyn, NY 11216

718-513-0800

iwindara@...
aborisa@...
www.asaforitifa.org

Orisa Workshops Reminder!

This is a courtesy reminder that we are having the Orisa Foods workshop
and Yoruba Prayer workship this weekend Saturday and Sunday in
Brooklyn.  RSVP is necessary to reserve your space.  The Orisa Foods
workship will be held Saturday 18th at 2pm and the Yoruba Prayer
workshop will be held Sunday 19th at 4pm.

For more information or to RSVP please call 718-513-0800

Baba Aiku

www.asaforitifa.org

The South Node is the Knowledge we have carried over from our past
lives.   The South Node represents our resources, innate talents, and
the abilities / habits, we have at our birth.  Knowing them will allow
you to utilize them in a conscious, focused manner.  We can utilize the
knowledge to live happier, fulfilled life.  We can use the South nodes
to enhance our lives.

   The North Node is a symbol of our own spiritual power and soul
integration.    It depicts the future and represents how new learned
behaviors can lead to the soul's evolutionary process / growth.

Why try to fly without a navigational map?

Astrology is NOT about your daily horoscope.  It is the study of your
souls' blue print.  It is a Map of your life's lesson.  The more
understanding we have of ourselves, the more we can accomplish.
Remember Awareness + Attention + Appreciation = Action!

Join is in an evening of learning & exploring who & what we truly are!

When:  Monday, March 27, 2006

Time: 7:00 pm till 9:00 PM

Where: 5914 Trouble Creek Rd. NPR, Fl.

Cost: 15.00 (personal chart is 10.00, please send DOB, location & time,
at least 3 days prior)

Master Astrologer:  Fifi Harper



E-mail: Edith@RocksRock <mailto:Edith@RocksRock>   -
Angelicrystals@... <mailto:Angelicrystals@...>

Live to serve & serve to live,
Edith
!Rocks, Rock!
Corner of:
Madison & Trouble Creek
http://www.RocksRock.net  <http://www.rocksrock.net/>
5914 Trouble Creek Rd.
New Port Richey, FL. 34652
727-845-5451
M-Saturday 10AM-5:45 PM



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

earthandHomeWitchery@yahoogroups.com
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From: "Millennium Twain" <yonibluestar@...>
Subject: Re: ~ Great Work ~ Great Mother Song, Not Quantum Con!
X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=196785175;
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X-Yahoo-Profile: yonibluestar

~~
~~~~

aho Gentle Children All!

not poison-ality, but personality ... persona.

not e-masculin-ated god, nor quantum con ...

rather electrodynamic spirit, Chi, spirit-song!


the 'tensegrity' of which you speak, which you seek,
is the living kundalini of your WHOLE electrodynamic
self -- only whole when healthy, fully-rested-dreamed,
and stretched, yoga-connected!

electromagnetic consciousness only exists in the dynamic
state -- which is the only state of connectivity.

thus absent from couch-potatoes, and the full-bellied!

yoga, stretching, yawning, whole-loving-respect for the
body-temple from which, through which, consciousness
comes and goes and originates -- this EMOTIVE life only
continues and grows when we are dynamic 24/7.

as our mentor/ancestor Whale and Dolphin, swimming,
pulsing in the dreamtime ocean 24 hours a day.

physicality, yoga, stretching, pulsing, vibrating, shaking,
dancing -- is NOT to be confused with physical abuse --

[whether bicycling, walking, dancing, working -- we NEVER
do actions which bring pain, break muscles, disconnect
one part of the body from another.  ALWAYS move in ways
which are warming, nurturing, feeling good, building
your body. all motions should be in gentle circles, which
consume little or no energy, and only connect and awaken
you.]

we are NOT here to break our bodies, break our backs,
kill our consciousness ... but rather to massage, nurture,
stimulate, awaken knowingness (at all frequencies, sleeping
and waking) ... to build ourselves and our families in
each and every and all actions ... as well as thoughts
and words.

this is the difference between Mother-Song, Creation-Song --
and the perversity of the Quantum Con.

no Big Bangs, no Black Holes, no exploding 'universes'.

the divine One is not Christian, nor any other State-dogma-tism!

SHE is Tsechenako, Thought Woman, Spider Woman, GrandMother
Turtle, of ALL names and legacies .. whose song is truly/literally a
soundwave -- electromagnetic wave, longitudinal wave, scalar
wave.=20

thus with thought and word become SONG we nurture our
collective child, world-family, baby Blue Star --

WHOLE Great Spirit Gong of all Mother Earth,

all our sacred relations, returned ...



Millennium Twain
(and Megumi Tatsuzawa)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In Illuminated_Dimensions, "SunMoonChild" wrote:

I was doing my last essay for my writing class, and came across
this.  I cannot remember it's source, but I found it during my mad
rush to become a Merkaba mystic ~ I was obsessed with the idea of
the "the Diamond Body."  I think I just posted about that when
describing my own exprience with "the Great Work."

See if this resonates with any of your material.

"Sublimatio means to raise or ennoble. Sublimatio is the vertical,
Middle path and corresponds with the element Air. In QBL, Shekinah is
the Middle Pillar. In psychology, alchemy and magick, it is the Anima
Mundi. She mediates the ascents and descents of the soul and spirit.
Through her, the ten spheres of the Tree of Life slowly sublimate
into Kether, the Crown (and Primordial Air). The "ascents and
descents" of the soul are characterized in ancient lore as Angels. An
example of this imagery is the story of Jacob's Ladder.
The Supernal Triad (the top three spheres of the Tree of Life)
represents the three aspects of knowledge: the Crown, Wisdom (the
Knower), and Understanding (that which is known). In Kether, the
Crown, all opposites reside in total union. It reconciles oppositions
which are distributed throughout the other spheres.

In alchemical thought, one may be redeemed through this self-
knowledge. But there is great danger in direct revelation of the
archetypal psyche. The danger lies in calling up the pure archetype,
which the ego-consciousness is never able to assimilate or integrate.
If one succumbs to the disintegrative effect, the personality is
annihilated in the Abyss of the transcendent imagination. This
dissolution has been likened to drowning. The alternate is release
from the personal ego attitude and a pro-active move toward
participation within the archetypal dimension.

Dreams, active imagination, and the practice of Theurgy or Ceremonial
Magick may all be seen as forms of coagulatio. In the process of
circulatio, there is a resurrection of the Soul of Body. Images are
an expedient mode of access to the knowledge of the soul, as it
circulates rhythmically throughout every cell of the body.
The body becomes subtle and spirit gains body. One is able to
maintain daily functions in the ordinary world without losing
intimate contact with the archetypal dimension. In fact, this
connectedness to daily life is essential to balance soul-travel in
archetypal realms. Maintain ordinary pursuits except during the
allotted meditation period.

This indirect penetration to the core-of-being produces fulfillment.
One may use conscious, purposeful action to intentionally produce
experience of unconscious non-action which is purposeless. This is a
natural preparation for death, the experience of awareness without
the constraints of time/space.

The dynamic activity associated with ego-consciousness (the desire to
know, to penetrate and illumine) culminates in a cessation of effort.
The rational process of controlling imagination defers to another
power, the autonomy of the stream of consciousness.
This experience of silence and tranquility is known as Sophia, or
Divine Wisdom. This means there is an emptying of the personal
attachments of the ego. We then experience a timeless incarnation of
the universal aspect of being.

The Merkabah mystics had one goal: entry into the throne-world of the
Merkabah, or Chariot of Fire (Diamond Body). They passed through the
seven lowest spheres of the Tree of Life before they gained
admittance. Using common shamanic methods to achieve a trance state,
they sent their souls upward or downward to pierce through the veil
surrounding the Throne Chariot.

The devotee sought nothing more than the vision of the Merkabah. No
explicit doctrinal statements beyond accounts of their journeys to
the heavens grew out of the experience, nor do we find the slightest
hint of a developed system beyond that of simple shamanism and the
later involvement with magic. The Merkabah-rider did not attempt to
see beyond the throne-kingdom or question its nature and origin. It
was there. It was to be experienced, and nothing more...no specific
mention is made about the precise nature of the transformation which
the Merkabah-rider underwent.(3)

These mystics threw their souls headlong into the fire of the
Universe for no other reason than the desire to experience the
Radiant Form of God.

A practical example of meditational use of the Cube of Space (Diamond
Body) is given by Gareth Knight, a contemporary British magician and
Qabalist. He suggests the aspirant not waste time and energy
in 'playing' with the symbols and symbol systems instead of using
them. The correspondences enrich the conceptual framework, but should
not become an intellectual preoccupation. Spontaneous offerings of
the unconscious should be acknowledged without sidetracking into
associations. Stick to the image, itself.

For instance, build the Cube of Space in the imagination with oneself
standing in the centre. Concentrate on the six main directions
initially and reflect on their general function and meaning. Then it
becomes a matter of following one's nose. The details of the minor
directions may be filled in. It may then well occur that certain
figures may appear more or less spontaneously in any particular
direction. These might be astrological figures, or Tarot pictures, or
William Blake's four Zoas, or images quite independent of any known
system. Simply take them for what they are worth and use them in the
immediate context in which they arise.

Our aim, when one crops up (say the Tarot Trump I, THE MAGICIAN, in
the West), is to consider what it may mean--not to rush away and
start to rack one's mentality on yet another mental construction of
images or how to allocate all the rest of the Trumps around the Cube.

This is to substitute reason for intuition.(4)
Just use the spontaneous image like an entry way and keep following
your symbols deeper and deeper, letting them unfold their hidden
aspects. The magical approach to the use of the Diamond Body has a
purpose other than the mystic's experience of the Divine. The
magician taps into the Divine power to which he has gained access.
This enhances his ability to pursue the Great Work.

We have our basic structure in the Cube of Space on which we have
affixed the Hebrew letters and their immediately associated symbols.
That is the fixed central part of our magical generator. We need to
let the other parts revolve around the fixed part if the generator is
going to work. The principle is just like an electrical machine, a
rotating coil and a fixed one, which can be used to convert motion to
power or power to motion--it is a two-way energy converter in
consciousness.(5)

The restoration of the original unity (Kether) is a collective
venture which each individual must set out to accomplish for himself.
This is not done through an imitation of the life of a god or gods.
It comes through fulfilling the Great Work which creates that unique
reality which is the individual. Each individual must experience the
diverse aspects of his relationship with Divinity, within the
constraints of time/space.

Polytheistic psychology would not suspend the commandment to have 'no
other Gods before me,' but would extend that commandment for each
mode of consciousness...polytheistic psychology obliges consciousness
to circulate among a field of powers. Each God has his due as each
complex deserves respect in its own right. In this circularity, there
seem no preferred positions.(6)"

~~~

~~

I have an interest in Santeria which is why I joined this group. A few
months ago my mom passed away due to a severe illness and your kind
words helped me to understand things that I didn't before. I'm still
dealing with things..... Anyways I have a question. Someone once told
me that everyone you meet in your lifetime, even if it's a stranger
who casually says hello to you in the elevator, it's because you had a
past with them in another life. I just wanted to know Santeria's take
on this. Thank You.

Alafia Emeraldlatina:

A very interesting question.  I personally have not heard this issue
discussed from our religious perspective.
It will be interesting to see the responses.

One...
Oba Anya, Oni-Oni


emeraldlatina wrote:

>I have an interest in Santeria which is why I joined this group. A few
>months ago my mom passed away due to a severe illness and your kind
>words helped me to understand things that I didn't before. I'm still
>dealing with things..... Anyways I have a question. Someone once told
>me that everyone you meet in your lifetime, even if it's a stranger
>who casually says hello to you in the elevator, it's because you had a
>past with them in another life. I just wanted to know Santeria's take
>on this. Thank You.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Greetings Emeraldlatina,

I have never heard this - either from a Lukumi perspective or from an
African one.  Sounds more to me like a cross-over from some
interpretation of Hinduism/karma.

Denise, Omi Saide


At 10:32 PM 3/20/2006, you wrote:
>Alafia Emeraldlatina:
>
>A very interesting question.  I personally have not heard this issue
>discussed from our religious perspective.
>It will be interesting to see the responses.
>
>One...
>Oba Anya, Oni-Oni
>
>
>emeraldlatina wrote:
>
> >I have an interest in Santeria which is why I joined this group. A few
> >months ago my mom passed away due to a severe illness and your kind
> >words helped me to understand things that I didn't before. I'm still
> >dealing with things..... Anyways I have a question. Someone once told
> >me that everyone you meet in your lifetime, even if it's a stranger
> >who casually says hello to you in the elevator, it's because you had a
> >past with them in another life. I just wanted to know Santeria's take
> >on this. Thank You.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>SPONSORED LINKS
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Santeria+religion&w1=Santeria+religion&w2=\
Santeria&w3=Beliefs&w4=Spiritualism&w5=Religion&c=5&s=82&.sig=rdJyLuXP7Vm_bRXUWp\
hC7A>Santeria
>religion
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Santeria&w1=Santeria+religion&w2=Santeria&\
w3=Beliefs&w4=Spiritualism&w5=Religion&c=5&s=82&.sig=AvdSO0hypRbJFZpF7DgCQQ>Sant\
eria
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Beliefs&w1=Santeria+religion&w2=Santeria&w\
3=Beliefs&w4=Spiritualism&w5=Religion&c=5&s=82&.sig=u3Rnxk1hayJUbwWkQohFlA>Belie\
fs
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Spiritualism&w1=Santeria+religion&w2=Sante\
ria&w3=Beliefs&w4=Spiritualism&w5=Religion&c=5&s=82&.sig=sWJ2VBNbysF0TboBhzwKIg>\
Spiritualism
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Religion&w1=Santeria+religion&w2=Santeria&\
w3=Beliefs&w4=Spiritualism&w5=Religion&c=5&s=82&.sig=quM_nsXzUnTsKLjwDt4zTQ>Reli\
gion
>
>
>
>----------
>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
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>
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>----------


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alafia,
Although I have heard my teachers in Ocha, Palo and Ifá speak of the
concept of reincarnation and karma, its never been delved into to the
level I've seen when researching eastern traditions/religions like
Hinduism and Buddhism.
The main thing I hear in our African traditions/religions is this
phrase:
"Lo que no se aprende en esta vida se aprenderá en la próxima".
Translates to: "what we don't learn in this life we will learn in the
next".
On a personal note, and this is just my humble opinion, I do believe
that we have some form of karma with all we encounter. The stronger the
initial feeling is, the stronger the karma.
Bogbo to Ache

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:27 am, Denise Oliver-Velez wrote:
> Greetings Emeraldlatina,
>
> I have never heard this - either from a Lukumi perspective or from an
> African one.  Sounds more to me like a cross-over from some
> interpretation of Hinduism/karma.
>
> Denise, Omi Saide
>
>
> At 10:32 PM 3/20/2006, you wrote:
>> Alafia Emeraldlatina:
>>
>> A very interesting question.  I personally have not heard this issue
>> discussed from our religious perspective.
>> It will be interesting to see the responses.
>>
>> One...
>> Oba Anya, Oni-Oni
>>
>>
>> emeraldlatina wrote:
>>
>>  >I have an interest in Santeria which is why I joined this group. A
>> few
>>  >months ago my mom passed away due to a severe illness and your kind
>>  >words helped me to understand things that I didn't before. I'm still
>>  >dealing with things..... Anyways I have a question. Someone once told
>>  >me that everyone you meet in your lifetime, even if it's a stranger
>>  >who casually says hello to you in the elevator, it's because you had
>> a
>>  >past with them in another life. I just wanted to know Santeria's take
>>  >on this. Thank You.
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >Yahoo! Groups Links
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>
>>
>>
>> SPONSORED LINKS
>>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Santeria+religion&w1=Santeria+religion&w2=S\
anteria&w3=Beliefs&w4=Spiritualism&w5=Religion&c=5&s=82&.sig=rdJyLuXP7Vm_bRXUWph\
C7A>Santeria
>> religion
>>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Santeria&w1=Santeria+religion&w2=Santeria&w\
3=Beliefs&w4=Spiritualism&w5=Religion&c=5&s=82&.sig=AvdSO0hypRbJFZpF7DgCQQ>Sante\
ria
>>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Beliefs&w1=Santeria+religion&w2=Santeria&w3\
=Beliefs&w4=Spiritualism&w5=Religion&c=5&s=82&.sig=u3Rnxk1hayJUbwWkQohFlA>Belief\
s
>>
>>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Spiritualism&w1=Santeria+religion&w2=Santer\
ia&w3=Beliefs&w4=Spiritualism&w5=Religion&c=5&s=82&.sig=sWJ2VBNbysF0TboBhzwKIg>S\
piritualism
>>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Religion&w1=Santeria+religion&w2=Santeria&w\
3=Beliefs&w4=Spiritualism&w5=Religion&c=5&s=82&.sig=quM_nsXzUnTsKLjwDt4zTQ>Relig\
ion
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------
>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>>
>>     *  Visit your group
>>  "<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/santeriaonline>santeriaonline" on the
>> web.
>>     *
>>     *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>     *
>> 
<mailto:santeriaonline-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>santeriao\
nline-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
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>>     *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
>>  <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>>
>>
>> ----------
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
---
nkisi@...
http://www.munanso.com

Thnak You for you kind words.
----- Original Message -----
From: <santeriaonline@yahoogroups.com>
To: <santeriaonline@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 12:29 PM
Subject: [Santeria Online] Digest Number 626



There are 4 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

       1. I have a question
            From: "emeraldlatina" <anitaroy@...>
       2. Re: I have a question
            From: OnyOny <awo1@...>
       3. Re: I have a question
            From: Denise Oliver-Velez <DOlivervelez@...>
       4. Re: I have a question
            From: nkisi kimbisa ntoto <nkisi@...>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
    Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:55:12 -0000
    From: "emeraldlatina" <anitaroy@...>
Subject: I have a question

I have an interest in Santeria which is why I joined this group. A few
months ago my mom passed away due to a severe illness and your kind
words helped me to understand things that I didn't before. I'm still
dealing with things..... Anyways I have a question. Someone once told
me that everyone you meet in your lifetime, even if it's a stranger
who casually says hello to you in the elevator, it's because you had a
past with them in another life. I just wanted to know Santeria's take
on this. Thank You.





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
    Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:32:40 -0500
    From: OnyOny <awo1@...>
Subject: Re: I have a question

Alafia Emeraldlatina:

A very interesting question.  I personally have not heard this issue
discussed from our religious perspective.
It will be interesting to see the responses.

One...
Oba Anya, Oni-Oni


emeraldlatina wrote:

>I have an interest in Santeria which is why I joined this group. A few
>months ago my mom passed away due to a severe illness and your kind
>words helped me to understand things that I didn't before. I'm still
>dealing with things..... Anyways I have a question. Someone once told
>me that everyone you meet in your lifetime, even if it's a stranger
>who casually says hello to you in the elevator, it's because you had a
>past with them in another life. I just wanted to know Santeria's take
>on this. Thank You.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
    Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 23:19:57 -0500
    From: Denise Oliver-Velez <DOlivervelez@...>
Subject: Re: I have a question

Greetings Emeraldlatina,

I have never heard this - either from a Lukumi perspective or from an
African one.  Sounds more to me like a cross-over from some
interpretation of Hinduism/karma.

Denise, Omi Saide


At 10:32 PM 3/20/2006, you wrote:
>Alafia Emeraldlatina:
>
>A very interesting question.  I personally have not heard this issue
>discussed from our religious perspective.
>It will be interesting to see the responses.
>
>One...
>Oba Anya, Oni-Oni
>
>
>emeraldlatina wrote:
>
> >I have an interest in Santeria which is why I joined this group. A few
> >months ago my mom passed away due to a severe illness and your kind
> >words helped me to understand things that I didn't before. I'm still
> >dealing with things..... Anyways I have a question. Someone once told
> >me that everyone you meet in your lifetime, even if it's a stranger
> >who casually says hello to you in the elevator, it's because you had a
> >past with them in another life. I just wanted to know Santeria's take
> >on this. Thank You.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>SPONSORED LINKS
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Santeria+religion&w1=Santeria+religion&w2=\
Santeria&w3=Beliefs&w4=Spiritualism&w5=Religion&c=5&s=82&.sig=rdJyLuXP7Vm_bRXUWp\
hC7A>Santeria
>religion
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Santeria&w1=Santeria+religion&w2=Santeria&\
w3=Beliefs&w4=Spiritualism&w5=Religion&c=5&s=82&.sig=AvdSO0hypRbJFZpF7DgCQQ>Sant\
eria
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Beliefs&w1=Santeria+religion&w2=Santeria&w\
3=Beliefs&w4=Spiritualism&w5=Religion&c=5&s=82&.sig=u3Rnxk1hayJUbwWkQohFlA>Belie\
fs
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Spiritualism&w1=Santeria+religion&w2=Sante\
ria&w3=Beliefs&w4=Spiritualism&w5=Religion&c=5&s=82&.sig=sWJ2VBNbysF0TboBhzwKIg>\
Spiritualism
><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Religion&w1=Santeria+religion&w2=Santeria&\
w3=Beliefs&w4=Spiritualism&w5=Religion&c=5&s=82&.sig=quM_nsXzUnTsKLjwDt4zTQ>Reli\
gion
>
>
>
>----------
>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>    *  Visit your group
> "<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/santeriaonline>santeriaonline" on the web.
>    *
>    *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>    *
>
<mailto:santeriaonline-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>santeriao\
nline-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>    *
>    *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>----------


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
    Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 05:56:33 -0500
    From: nkisi kimbisa ntoto <nkisi@...>
Subject: Re: I have a question

Alafia,
Although I have heard my teachers in Ocha, Palo and Ifá speak of the
concept of reincarnation and karma, its never been delved into to the
level I've seen when researching eastern traditions/religions like
Hinduism and Buddhism.
The main thing I hear in our African traditions/religions is this
phrase:
"Lo que no se aprende en esta vida se aprenderá en la próxima".
Translates to: "what we don't learn in this life we will learn in the
next".
On a personal note, and this is just my humble opinion, I do believe
that we have some form of karma with all we encounter. The stronger the
initial feeling is, the stronger the karma.
Bogbo to Ache

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 12:27 am, Denise Oliver-Velez wrote:
> Greetings Emeraldlatina,
>
> I have never heard this - either from a Lukumi perspective or from an
> African one.  Sounds more to me like a cross-over from some
> interpretation of Hinduism/karma.
>
> Denise, Omi Saide
>
>
> At 10:32 PM 3/20/2006, you wrote:
>> Alafia Emeraldlatina:
>>
>> A very interesting question.  I personally have not heard this issue
>> discussed from our religious perspective.
>> It will be interesting to see the responses.
>>
>> One...
>> Oba Anya, Oni-Oni
>>
>>
>> emeraldlatina wrote:
>>
>>  >I have an interest in Santeria which is why I joined this group. A
>> few
>>  >months ago my mom passed away due to a severe illness and your kind
>>  >words helped me to understand things that I didn't before. I'm still
>>  >dealing with things..... Anyways I have a question. Someone once told
>>  >me that everyone you meet in your lifetime, even if it's a stranger
>>  >who casually says hello to you in the elevator, it's because you had
>> a
>>  >past with them in another life. I just wanted to know Santeria's take
>>  >on this. Thank You.
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >Yahoo! Groups Links
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>
>>
>>
>> SPONSORED LINKS
>>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Santeria+religion&w1=Santeria+religion&w2=S\
anteria&w3=Beliefs&w4=Spiritualism&w5=Religion&c=5&s=82&.sig=rdJyLuXP7Vm_bRXUWph\
C7A>Santeria
>> religion
>>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Santeria&w1=Santeria+religion&w2=Santeria&w\
3=Beliefs&w4=Spiritualism&w5=Religion&c=5&s=82&.sig=AvdSO0hypRbJFZpF7DgCQQ>Sante\
ria
>>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Beliefs&w1=Santeria+religion&w2=Santeria&w3\
=Beliefs&w4=Spiritualism&w5=Religion&c=5&s=82&.sig=u3Rnxk1hayJUbwWkQohFlA>Belief\
s
>>
>>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Spiritualism&w1=Santeria+religion&w2=Santer\
ia&w3=Beliefs&w4=Spiritualism&w5=Religion&c=5&s=82&.sig=sWJ2VBNbysF0TboBhzwKIg>S\
piritualism
>>
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Religion&w1=Santeria+religion&w2=Santeria&w\
3=Beliefs&w4=Spiritualism&w5=Religion&c=5&s=82&.sig=quM_nsXzUnTsKLjwDt4zTQ>Relig\
ion
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------
>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>>
>>     *  Visit your group
>>  "<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/santeriaonline>santeriaonline" on the
>> web.
>>     *
>>     *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>     *
>>
>>
<mailto:santeriaonline-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>santeriao\
nline-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>     *
>>     *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
>>  <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>>
>>
>> ----------
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
---
nkisi@...
http://www.munanso.com

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



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