Ah ok now I see clearer =). Thanks to all and for the description.
As soon as I get another Hakama I will try it myself. 


Pia


________________________________
  Von: Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie <ishiyama@...>
An: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: 22:48 Freitag, 23.März 2012
Betreff: Re: [SCA-JML] Could someone help me identify these "pants"?


 
Eileen Young wrote:
> Is the hat in the picture a man's hat or a hat that everyone wore?

The hat is a "sando gasa", and is appropriate for townfolk and
travellers, though I would actually be hard pressed to document it
as truly period for either gender.

In the SCA, it is commonly worn by both men and women. It is most
notable for being an actual Japanese hat, similar enough to
documentable headwear to pass, and actually can be bought in North
America (overseas shipping adds up, even on light items).

Pia Lampert wrote:
> How come that your Hakama aren't as full as the ones in the picture?
> What makes the differences? Cloth? The way he tied up his Hakama?

Logically speaking, clothing fullness is a function of wealth. That
photo was taken at Pennsic, and I am dressed extremely informally
as a commoner due to warm weather. He is obviously a highly-paid,
skilled swordsman.

Mechanically speaking, the hakama I am wearing in that picture only
use three panels per leg (2 in front, 1 in back), and the panels are
somewhat narrow. He probably has four panels per leg, and the panels
look pretty wide. Period looms are anywhere from 14 to 16 inches wide.
My panels might have been cut from 54" fabric, giving me 13.5 inch
panels.

Here's a museum picture showing a lower-class peddler -

http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/busou/26.htm

Here's a picture showing a warrior -

http://www.iz2.or.jp/english/fukusyoku/busou/15.htm

> I am having a hard time trying to imagine how it works. Are there
> any pictures or tutorials on how to do it? Where does the cord end
> and is it hidden? So many questions =).

For the blue hakama in my picture, I simply used the hem as a casing
and ran a cord through it all the way around the leg opening. The
cord enters and leaves at the outside seam. The cord is about two
feet longer than the total circumference of the opening, so the legs
can be completely opened and hang straight down.

To use, I simply cross the cords and pull them tight, just like the
top of a drawstring bag, position the gathers just below my knee,
and tie the cords. Because of the amount of fabric, this is
sometimes not as "simple" as I say, and takes some adjusting. You
can imagine gathering the fabric by hand and tying it in place with
a cord, but you might need somebody to help you with that. Some
people tell me that instead of a separate cord, you can tie the
gathered fabric in place with the kyahan, but I don't trust that to
hold, and have never tried it.

Whatever method you use, it's hidden no matter what because the
fabric blouses out and down, covering whatever you do.

--
The Hon. Lord Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie
(mka: Elliott C. "Eeyore" Evans)
ishiyama@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've been playing with a recipe I found in Eric Rath's Food and Fantasy In
Premodern Japan over the past few weeks.

http://tousando.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=food&thread=4023&pa\
ge=1

Rath's translation is of a recipe for kasutera (Pao de Castela or Bread from
Castile) that dates to 1641, however, the treat was known during our period.

"Knead together 10 eggs, 160 momme (600 grams or 2.5 cups*) of sugar and 160
momme of wheat flour. Spread paper in a pot and sprinkle it with flour. Place
the dough on top of this. Place a heat source above and below to cook. There are
oral instructions." from the Nanban Ryorisho or Southern Barbarian's Cookbook,
which dates from 1641.

The first batch from a couple weeks ago used ten modern Grade A large eggs, 2.5
cups Gold Medal all purpose flour and 2.5 cups granulated sugar. This produced a
wet, yellow batter that baked thoroughly at 350 degrees in about 30 minutes in a
pan lined with parchment paper. Baked, it  looked a lot like corn bread and was
much more cake-like than it probably should have been. It tasted pleasantly
sweet and a little eggy and had a slightly spongy texture 24 hours later.

Today I baked two batches, one using seven eggs, one using six. The six-egg
batch actually produced dough instead of batter, required a slightly longer
baking time before my testing skewer came away clean, and only rose about an
inch. The flavor is about the same and the consistency is dense, chewy and a bit
more bread-like.

I'll be adding this baby to my website shortly.

Saionji Shonagon
West Kingdom

It's funny that you mention those hakama, the movie those pictures are from is
Red Sun with Toshiro Mifune and Charles Bronson.  When I was making my husband's
first set of Japanese garb he said he wanted pants like the ones Mifune wore in
Red Sun.  I searched the web, and every Japanese clothing book I could find,
trying to figure out what kind of pants those were.  I watched the movie several
times, fast-forwarding to any scene where I could clearly see the pants and
found a brief snippet of a scene that answered the question.  They are normal
hakama that he hitches up at the sides and tucks into his obi making them look
like short, baggy, hakama.  As soon as I read your subject line that movie
popped into my head and I chuckled when I saw the pictures.

Sanada Katsumi

Heh, yeah same here. I stumbled across the movie and liked it at once. When I
saw his "pants" I wanted to have them, but like you I had problems to figure out
what kind of pants Mifune is wearing.  Good to know that there are people out
here with so much knowledge =)

But how would you tuck your Hakama into your obi? Anyways I am going to do that
as well. it looks really stylish. 

Amaya



________________________________
  Von: Jess <slaoen@...>
An: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: 15:46 Montag, 26.März 2012
Betreff: [SCA-JML] Re: Could someone help me identify these "pants"?


 
It's funny that you mention those hakama, the movie those pictures are from is
Red Sun with Toshiro Mifune and Charles Bronson.  When I was making my husband's
first set of Japanese garb he said he wanted pants like the ones Mifune wore in
Red Sun.  I searched the web, and every Japanese clothing book I could find,
trying to figure out what kind of pants those were.  I watched the movie several
times, fast-forwarding to any scene where I could clearly see the pants and
found a brief snippet of a scene that answered the question.  They are normal
hakama that he hitches up at the sides and tucks into his obi making them look
like short, baggy, hakama.  As soon as I read your subject line that movie
popped into my head and I chuckled when I saw the pictures.

Sanada Katsumi




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Pia Lampert <ti1816@...> wrote:
> But how would you tuck your Hakama into your obi?

You don't. The obi goes on underneath. Yes, really.

Saionji Shonagon
West Kingdom

Portuguese sweet bread dates back much further in Portugal. But also think they
may have used what we call small eggs because that is all they had.

Sent from my iPhone

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Jane Bettencourt <sealynn@...> wrote:
>
> Portuguese sweet bread dates back much further in Portugal.

Clearly. Rath cites a source mentioning the selling of kasutera in Japan that is
a full 50 years earlier than the recipe in the Nanban Ryori. I would love to
find a period Portuguese source to see if there are any variations.

> But also think they may have used what we call small eggs because that is all
they had.

Modern eggs sold to stores are sorted for uniformity of size. When a friend used
to bring me eggs from his chickens, I'd get a dozen that were a gamut of sizes
(and colors - the pale green ones were quite pretty). I realized my error as I
mixed the first batch two weeks ago. Six Grade A Large eggs* came a lot closer
to producing a dough-like consistency.

*This is the smallest size my local market sells.

Saionji Shonagon
West Kingdom

Pia Lampert wrote:
> But how would you tuck your Hakama into your obi? Anyways I am going
> to do that as well. it looks really stylish. 

I don't do this myself, but some people swear by it in hot weather. Just reach
down in through the side openings of the hakama, grab the bottom hem, pull it
up, and tuck a corner of it up between the obi (or the hakama himo if you're not
wearing an obi) and kosode.

I guess you could do this at multiple points to even it out, but most people
seem to do it just at either side.
--
The Hon. Lord Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie
(m.k.a. Elliott C. "Eeyore" Evans)
ishiyama@...

Thank you for sharing!  I love culinary things to try out!

Gwenhwyvar

--
"All knowledge is worth having."  Anafiel Delaunay, Kushiel's Dart.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For a shortening of the legs somewhere between full length and pulling the
bottom hem up to the belt, you can also grab the lowest point of the side cuts
and pull it up through the obi/himo.  Both of the people in the foreground of
this picture have done it:
http://s163.photobucket.com/albums/t303/jdmcowan/?action=view¤t=DSCF2833.j\
pg

To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
From: ishiyama@...
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:58:30 -0400
Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Could someone help me identify these "pants"?




























       Pia Lampert wrote:

> But how would you tuck your Hakama into your obi? Anyways I am going

> to do that as well. it looks really stylish.



I don't do this myself, but some people swear by it in hot weather. Just reach
down in through the side openings of the hakama, grab the bottom hem, pull it
up, and tuck a corner of it up between the obi (or the hakama himo if you're not
wearing an obi) and kosode.



I guess you could do this at multiple points to even it out, but most people
seem to do it just at either side.

--

The Hon. Lord Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie

(m.k.a. Elliott C. "Eeyore" Evans)

ishiyama@...



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "LJonthebay" <wodeford@...> wrote:
> Rath's translation is of a recipe for kasutera (Pao de Castela or Bread from
Castile) that dates to 1641, however, the treat was known during our period.
>
> "Knead together 10 eggs, 160 momme (600 grams or 2.5 cups*) of
> sugar and 160 momme of wheat flour. Spread paper in a pot and
> sprinkle it with flour. Place the dough on top of this. Place a
> heat source above and below to cook. There are oral instructions."
> from the Nanban Ryorisho or Southern Barbarian's Cookbook, which
> dates from 1641.
>
> The first batch from a couple weeks ago used ten modern Grade A
> large eggs, 2.5 cups Gold Medal all purpose flour and 2.5 cups
> granulated sugar. This produced a wet, yellow batter that baked
> thoroughly at 350 degrees in about 30 minutes in a pan lined with
> parchment paper. Baked, it  looked a lot like corn bread and was
> much more cake-like than it probably should have been. It tasted
> pleasantly sweet and a little eggy and had a slightly spongy
> texture 24 hours later.
>
> Today I baked two batches, one using seven eggs, one using six. The
> six-egg batch actually produced dough instead of batter, required a
> slightly longer baking time before my testing skewer came away
> clean, and only rose about an inch. The flavor is about the same
> and the consistency is dense, chewy and a bit more bread-like.

From a little rummaging around the Net, it appears that it's _supposed_ to be a
batter; it's one of the many variations on sponge cake (or pound cake), which
depend for their rise on the expansion of the air trapped in the batter. Most of
the castela recipes specify that the eggs should be beaten until very light
(some sponge cake recipes separate the eggs and beat the whites to soft peaks to
get more air into the batter).

The last time I was in Nagasaki, my co-workers bought me some castela as an
omiyage.  The texture was soft and cakey, though a bit drier than most Western
cakes tend to be.  Think a slightly dry and more airy angel food or pound cake
and you've got the right idea.  I don't know, however, whether the texture of
modern castela resembles the texture of the period version or not.

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "SeanM" <srmalloy@...> wrote:
>
> --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "LJonthebay" <wodeford@> wrote:
> > Rath's translation is of a recipe for kasutera (Pao de Castela or Bread from
Castile) that dates to 1641, however, the treat was known during our period.
> >
> > "Knead together 10 eggs, 160 momme (600 grams or 2.5 cups*) of
> > sugar and 160 momme of wheat flour. Spread paper in a pot and
> > sprinkle it with flour. Place the dough on top of this. Place a
> > heat source above and below to cook. There are oral instructions."
> > from the Nanban Ryorisho or Southern Barbarian's Cookbook, which
> > dates from 1641.
> >
> > The first batch from a couple weeks ago used ten modern Grade A
> > large eggs, 2.5 cups Gold Medal all purpose flour and 2.5 cups
> > granulated sugar. This produced a wet, yellow batter that baked
> > thoroughly at 350 degrees in about 30 minutes in a pan lined with
> > parchment paper. Baked, it  looked a lot like corn bread and was
> > much more cake-like than it probably should have been. It tasted
> > pleasantly sweet and a little eggy and had a slightly spongy
> > texture 24 hours later.
> >
> > Today I baked two batches, one using seven eggs, one using six. The
> > six-egg batch actually produced dough instead of batter, required a
> > slightly longer baking time before my testing skewer came away
> > clean, and only rose about an inch. The flavor is about the same
> > and the consistency is dense, chewy and a bit more bread-like.
>
> From a little rummaging around the Net, it appears that it's _supposed_ to be
a batter; it's one of the many variations on sponge cake (or pound cake), which
depend for their rise on the expansion of the air trapped in the batter. Most of
the castela recipes specify that the eggs should be beaten until very light
(some sponge cake recipes separate the eggs and beat the whites to soft peaks to
get more air into the batter).
>

Noble Cousin!

Greetings from Solveig!

> But how would you tuck your Hakama into your obi? Anyways I am going to do
that as well. it looks really stylish.

It's not exactly stylish. It is like rolling up your sleeves. It is part of a
chambara cliche. The samurai going into a duel or other similar action also tie
back their sleeves with a cord.

Your Humble Servant
Solveig Throndardottir
Amateur Scholar



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings all,

I've picked up a DVD, "Shibori Celebrating 400 years of japanese artisan
design" and watched about half of it. I've realised that I'm not that
interested in silk dying. So I would like to sell it for about $50 (plus
postage). So I thought I would offer it here first, before placing it on
eBay.

On Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Arimatsu-Narumi-Shibori-Celebrating-Japanese-Language/dp/B\
000RGSX3S/

Yours in Service,
Yves de Lyle


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "SeanM" <srmalloy@...> wrote:
>
> --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "LJonthebay" <wodeford@> wrote:
> > Rath's translation is of a recipe for kasutera (Pao de Castela or Bread from
Castile) that dates to 1641, however, the treat was known during our period.
> >
> > "Knead together 10 eggs, 160 momme (600 grams or 2.5 cups*) of
> > sugar and 160 momme of wheat flour. Spread paper in a pot and
> > sprinkle it with flour. Place the dough on top of this. Place a
> > heat source above and below to cook. There are oral instructions."
> > from the Nanban Ryorisho or Southern Barbarian's Cookbook, which
> > dates from 1641.

> From a little rummaging around the Net, it appears that it's _supposed_ to be
a batter; it's one of the many variations on sponge cake (or pound cake), which
depend for their rise on the expansion of the air trapped in the batter.

Modern kasutera yes. The recipe cited above is in a document dated 1641 CE. No
milk, no honey, no fancy shmancy whisking. ;-D Both batches vanished
mysteriously into hungry faces at Estrella War with no complaints.

Saionji Shonagon
West Kingdom

Looks like nobody's looked at my original thread on the Tousando about this, so
I'm posting it again. (It includes description of modern kasutera, etc.)

http://tousando.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=food&thread=4023&pa\
ge=1

Batches 2(made with 7 eggs) and 3 (6 eggs) were cheerfully consumed at Estrella
War this week. In a discussion with one of my victims, we conjectured that the
consistency would have worked well for a ship bread, which makes a great deal of
sense when one thinks about how many months a voyage from Portugal to the Far
East took. After a couple of days in a zip-lock bag in the Arizona desert (a
climate FAR drier than Japan ever gets), the texture somewhat resembled
biscotti.

Saionji Shonagon, sugaring up the Known World for at least a week.
West Kingdom

Noble Cousin!

Greetings from Solveig!
> Modern kasutera yes. The recipe cited above is in a document dated 1641 CE. No
milk, no honey, no fancy shmancy whisking. ;-D Both batches vanished
mysteriously into hungry faces at Estrella War with no complaints.
The fancy whisking could be in the oral instructions. Given a culture of knife
ceremonies, fancy whisking would not be surprising.

Your Humble Servant
Solveig Throndardottir
Amateur Scholar



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, Solveig Throndardottir <nostrand@...> wrote:

> The fancy whisking could be in the oral instructions. Given a culture of knife
ceremonies, fancy whisking would not be surprising.

Rath describes this as a flat, pancake-like bread. Whisking aerates the eggs and
to my mind, makes sense for a cake batter, less for a bread dough.

I fully intend to pester one of our cooking Laurels if I see her this weekend
because I would LOVE to find a Portuguese or Spanish source for comparison.

Saionji Shonagon

http://nccbf.org/

Festival: Saturday and Sunday, April 14 & 15, 21 & 22, 2012
Grand Parade: Sunday, April 22, 2012
Queen Pageant: Saturday, April 14, 2012
Where?
Festival: Japantown (@ Post & Buchanan Streets), San Francisco
Grand Parade: Begins at San Francisco City Hall and ends at Post & Fillmore
Queen Pageant: Sundance Kabuki 8 Theater, Japantown

Saionji Shonagon
West Kingdom

Pittsburgh jumps on the cherry blossom drum wagon!

From http://www.pghsakuraproject.org/en/news/news12.html -

This spring we will hold our first Cherry Blossom Festival, on Sunday, April 29,
in honor of the centennial of the original gift of cherry trees from Japan to
the US in 1912. We hope you can join us!

Place: Near the Boat House in North Park
Date: Sunday, April 29, 2012, from 3:00 PM to 5:30 PM
Event: Planting 3 ceremonial young cherry trees and 3 others, Taiko, Music
Performances, Kite flying, Folk dance, Tea ceremony, Raffle, and more!

--
The Hon. Lord Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie
(m.k.a. Elliott C. "Eeyore" Evans)
ishiyama@...

There is a word for a Ronin or Samurai who is not serving a Lord but
travels to protect villagers and peasants from the abuses of wayword
samurai or other bandits.

I cannot remember that term and am hoping that someone here
understands the idea.

Kurosawa touches on this in many of his films.

--
Rick Johnson
http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
"Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
security will soon find that they have neither."

richard johnson wrote:
> There is a word for a Ronin or Samurai who is not serving a Lord but
> travels to protect villagers and peasants from the abuses of wayword
> samurai or other bandits.

"Yojimbo"?

I think a literal translation is more like "bodyguard",
but Kurosawa does have a movie by that title and your
description more-or-less matches the main character.

--
The Hon. Lord Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie
(m.k.a. Elliott C. "Eeyore" Evans)
ishiyama@...

No, it is another term for a similar person.or situation.
I understand the film, but the term i read years ago was different.

On 4/16/12, Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie <ishiyama@...> wrote:
> richard johnson wrote:
>> There is a word for a Ronin or Samurai who is not serving a Lord but
>> travels to protect villagers and peasants from the abuses of wayword
>> samurai or other bandits.
>
> "Yojimbo"?
>
> I think a literal translation is more like "bodyguard",
> but Kurosawa does have a movie by that title and your
> description more-or-less matches the main character.
>
> --
> The Hon. Lord Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie
> (m.k.a. Elliott C. "Eeyore" Evans)
> ishiyama@...
>
>


--
Rick Johnson
http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
"Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
security will soon find that they have neither."

The term ronin means masterless samurai


Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 16, 2012, at 2:51 PM, richard johnson <rikjohnson39@...> wrote:

> No, it is another term for a similar person.or situation.
> I understand the film, but the term i read years ago was different.
>
> On 4/16/12, Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie <ishiyama@...> wrote:
> > richard johnson wrote:
> >> There is a word for a Ronin or Samurai who is not serving a Lord but
> >> travels to protect villagers and peasants from the abuses of wayword
> >> samurai or other bandits.
> >
> > "Yojimbo"?
> >
> > I think a literal translation is more like "bodyguard",
> > but Kurosawa does have a movie by that title and your
> > description more-or-less matches the main character.
> >
> > --
> > The Hon. Lord Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie
> > (m.k.a. Elliott C. "Eeyore" Evans)
> > ishiyama@...
> >
> >
>
> --
> Rick Johnson
> http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
> "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
> security will soon find that they have neither."
>
>
>
> TODAY(Beta) • Powered by Yahoo!
> Wounded Marine faces scary next move
> Privacy Policy
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I believe the term would be "watarikashi" which would be a person, usually an
ashigaru, hired on temporary basis to protect a person or persons on trips, etc.

Ishikawa Moritake

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, richard johnson <rikjohnson39@...> wrote:
>
> There is a word for a Ronin or Samurai who is not serving a Lord but
> travels to protect villagers and peasants from the abuses of wayword
> samurai or other bandits.
>
> I cannot remember that term and am hoping that someone here
> understands the idea.
>
> Kurosawa touches on this in many of his films.
>
> --
> Rick Johnson
> http://Rick-Johnson.webs.com
> "Those who give up a little freedom in return for a little imagined
> security will soon find that they have neither."
>

I sent this earlier and it hasn't showed up on the list yet so if it shows up
twice I apologize.

I was wondering if anyone had any references or images for the type of geta with
the two pieces that elevate the shoe off the ground? An example of what I'm
talking about can be seen here
http://www.photography-match.com/wallpapers/4866_geta/ I am trying to have at
least a little bit of documentation for each of my accessories.
Thanks
Agnes

I was wondering if anyone had any references or images for the type of geta with
the two pieces that elevate the shoe off the ground? An example of what I'm
talking about can be seen here
http://www.photography-match.com/wallpapers/4866_geta/ I am trying to have at
least a little bit of documentation for each of my accessories.
Thanks
Agnes

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Carey Gorla wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone had any references or images for
> the type of geta with the two pieces that elevate the shoe
> off the ground?

Here's some information on the web site for what is apparently
the Japan Footwear, Folk Toy, and Doll Museum.

J - http://www.footandtoy.jp/htenjiannai.html
E -
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.foota\
ndtoy.jp%2Fhtenjiannai.html

There's a tiny little bit of information on Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geta_%28footwear%29

These two associated pages are still my favorites.

http://japanesegeta.com/
http://www.egeorgeonline.com/getapage/index.html

Lastly, because all promotion is self-promotion, I should
mention my own project page.

http://www.ee0r.com/proj/geta.html

Hope all those help!

--
The Hon. Lord Ishiyama Gen'tarou Yori'ie
(mka: Elliott C. "Eeyore" Evans)
ishiyama@...

I've uploaded an image of my first attempt at women's garb to the photos
section.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca-jml/photos/album/594872653/pic/456670964/view?\
picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc

I'm entering this in Calontir's Tri-Levels this weekend.
Agnes

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Carey G" <agnesvonh@...> wrote:
>
> I've uploaded an image of my first attempt at women's garb to the photos
section.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca-jml/photos/album/594872653/pic/456670964/view?\
picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc
>
> I'm entering this in Calontir's Tri-Levels this weekend.
> Agnes

Good luck! Nice first attempt.

(To knock this photo out of the ball park, crop it - it'll get rid of the office
building in the corner and you can hide your modern footwear too.)

Saionji no Hana
West Kingdom