Colleen

I have an 1857 death cert for my relative in Dundee saying she was buried in
Mains(?) Old Church Yard as certified by Archibald Beats? undertaker in a
column marked up "Burial Place, Undertaker, or other Person, by whom
certified"  & I also have one from 1860 saying buried in "Logie Burying
Ground, Dundee" - however, by the time I get to my next death in the family
in Dundee, 1863 - this column is omitted from certs.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards.
Caroline Day

PS:   I have found out from marriage certs. that my family were Catholics,
not death certs.  I have found a lot of my Dundee family attended St Josephs
Chapel, Dundee in late 1880's (from marriage certs) and luckily I have found
a lovely priest that has the records and is very helpful.

----- Original Message -----
From: <IACSCOTT@...>
To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: [scots-origins] FRAME burials


> Colleen
>
> I have downloaded may Death Certificates and looked at many more at New
> Register House and the number that show the place of burial is not large.
While I
> cannot be precise in quoting dates, it would appear that you may find the
place
> of burial on certificates prior to about 1860 from the time Statutory
> Registration commenced but after that it is unlikely you will see this on
> certificates. I have checked a number of the certificates I hold from 1862
and none have
> the place of burial. It should also be remembered that many burials took
place
> in a different parish from that where the death occurred.
>
> If you find a certificate with the place of burial stated on it you may be
> able to deduce the religious denomination of the deceased but it is not
> specifically stated. The notation will say something like 'Buried in
Xxxxxxxxx
> Churchyard and will be signed 'so and so', Beadle or some similar term.
>
> The certificate that will give you anyone's religious denomination is the
> marriage certificate which is likely to state that the marriage has taken
place
> in accordance with the format of the ???????? Church.
>
> Even where the entry for a birth is found in the Old Parish Records it is
no
> guarantee that the child or its parents were members of the Established
Church
> as all births were supposed to be recorded in the Parish Records. Most of
> those that were related to the children of members of the Established
Church but
> others denominations can be found and, of course, many births of children
of
> members of the Established Church were not recorded at all or were done in
> batches (some children walked to their christenings many years after their
birth)
> and for that reason it is quite possible to find death certificates
bearing
> ages which do not correspond with the birth or christening information
recorded.
>
> I hope this clarifies the position.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
> Scots Origins (www.scotsorigins.com). The group has been set up so that
members can share genealogical information about Scotland, to reply send an
email to scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
scots-origins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Carole
I don't think I was specifically referring to your email, or perhaps I hit
the wrong button. It was a general question addressed to the other 40 odd
lemon curders.
Alistair

Judy Strachan wrote:

>That said, as a writer I firmly believe that the most wonderful thing about
>the English language is its ability to change with the times.
>
In case I was less than clear, I completely agree. But there is some
kind of basic stability, whereby we mostly now add to the corpus of the
language rather than change it. So 'sexed-up' in its context will add to
the range of expression (in my view, anyway) and doesn't detract from
anything before. Like it or hate it, it will stick!

Bruce H

I don't post here often but I've been reading this discussion of genealogy
vs history with great interest.  Names, dates and places are just the bones
of genealogy - you need history, geography, and the social structure of the
time to put meat on those bones.  I do agree that sometimes the discussions
become overly long but I don't mean in the length of time they continue.  I
mean in the respect that some people, when replying to the list, don't
bother to delete the extraneous.  I pasted Digest #1440, all 54 pages, into
a word processing program, deleted the extraneous, and ended up with a very
coherent 27 pages, without reformatting.  What takes up a lot of room,
besides those that reply to the list and resend the entire list, are the
personal messages, links, and disclaimers that some use as part of their
signature, when a name and location would suffice.  What I'm not interested
in is someone's personal philosophy, whether or not they think everything
they write needs to be copyrighted, or what anti-virus program they use.
I'll trust that everyone has a philosophy, everyone writes, and everyone
uses an anti-virus program.

Now I've had my say.

Barbara Sleeper
Middleboro, MA USA

mark douglas wrote:

>I'm being teased here, I suspect. Oh dear, I WISH I hadn't had that sense of
>humour bypass operation...
>
Okay, unreserved apology. Yes, it was meant to be teasing; I'm sorry.

Bruce H

I have to agree, Tom.
Cecelia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom McQuarrie" <tishimself@...>
To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 5:01 AM
Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Geneaology


> respectfully disagree.
> To me geneaology is as much about history as it about a list of names. I
> want to know enough to understand what was going on in the world of my
> ancestors. A tree is more then it various branches.
>
> If you discount discussions on history what would be left to read on this
> message board.
>
> My 2 cents
>
> Tom
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 05:49:52 AM
> To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Geneaology
>
> I must confess but I agree with Agnes. Maybe 2 sites are needed? one to
> address genealogy, another to address history. Sheena
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: bilag2000
> To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 10:04 AM
> Subject: [scots-origins] Geneaology
>
>
> I used to love this site as the postings were about family records.
> Now they are about history which is great but it goes on way too long,
> I think the moderator should try to see to this. I know a lot of you
> will be upset at me and chastise me on line, but this is another
> problem. Free speech is for everyone.
>
> Agnes
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
> Scots Origins (www.scotsorigins.com). The group has been set up so that
> members can share genealogical information about Scotland, to reply send
an
> email to scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
scots-origins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups
> com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> .
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
> Scots Origins (www.scotsorigins.com). The group has been set up so that
members can share genealogical information about Scotland, to reply send an
email to scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
scots-origins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Not that I know of. I have bits of information from here and there. Probably
the best link I can give you is below. You can email them to research for
you.
If I can answer any other questions please let me know.

Julia
http://www.archives.gla.ac.uk/collects/lists/business/shipping/shiprep.html

> From: MITSFN1@...
> Reply-To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:45:09 EDT
> To: scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Beardmores Shipyard
>
>
> Is there a web site called Beardmores Shipyard?
>
> My great grandfather(Arthur McKenna) worked as a Rivetmaker Journeyman.
>
> Thank you,
> Michele
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
> Scots Origins (www.scotsorigins.com). The group has been set up so that
> members can share genealogical information about Scotland, to reply send an
> email to scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
> scots-origins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Lynn Mason,
After reading your message, I cannot control myself.   First off, If you are
referring to my message pertaining to the 'other' group as an alternative to
using this group as a 'general discussion' group, let me further explain what
you obviously want to disregard!
scots-origins was formed to help people in their search for 'family'.  An
alternative group,  www.origins.net/ScotsLife/ was formed to allow people to
'talk' about other topics.    (If you feel that someone should 'simply leave the
group', then may I suggest it be you?)   I might also point out, there WERE a
lot more people who contributed to this group, in the past.  They seem to have
lost interest!  I wonder why?
"GET A LIFE!!!"        I have one!   It's 71 years young and thriving!  You
see, I don't have the time to read all the tripe that is sometimes incorporated
into this forum.  I cannot, in good conscience, "delete" without giving it a
once over to see if I can be of any help to someone looking for information.

I guess I need to ask other people in Scotland if your statement about Scot's
History, not being taught in the schools, is valid.   (I know  I have
Cousins, educated in the Scottish School System, that are well versed in Scot's
History!)  If you would like to read up on them, contact me off line.  I'll give
you their names and you can do a 'google' on them.

Yes, It's sad that you know nothing of William Wallace, except what you see
at the 'pictures'.   I might also suggest that you will NOT get a clear picture
of what actually happened (History) from this group.  Everyone has their own
outlook and opinions.   Might I advance the notion that you obtain a library
card and read some History Books?

I sleep very well at night, having  had a very full day of worthwhile
activities.  If I should have a little difficulty with getting to sleep
(unwinding
after a full day) I 'read a good book'.

Bye the bye,  Rules are made to live by.  It's when the rules are broken that
havoc occurs.  (Example: when the rules that govern this group are broken)

Sincerely,
Anna Wyber Dunne


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Listers
We are not only trying to find the parents of Jarvis[Gervas]Faulkner but also
those of his wife Elizabeth Lees now at a guess I would say they would have been
born in the late 1780's-early 1790's.Her around the Nottingham area and him
possibly Whitby at a guess their son who was my gr gr grandfather was born in
Whitby in 1811 so their birth years are only a guess on my part.I have tried
family search org but so far not much luck so thought I would give this
group a shot and see if anyone can help.
Carole



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Alistair
Thats fine I must have got it wrong.Maybe I was having a bad hair day.
Carole

Alistair Macdonald <alistair.macdonald@...> wrote:
Carole
I don't think I was specifically referring to your email, or perhaps I hit
the wrong button. It was a general question addressed to the other 40 odd
lemon curders.
Alistair


-------------------------------------------------------
This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
Scots Origins (www.scotsorigins.com). The group has been set up so that members
can share genealogical information about Scotland, to reply send an email to
scots-origins@yahoogroups.com

To unsubscribe send a blank email to: scots-origins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

** Reply to note from Bruce Humphrey <brucehum@...> Fri, 01 Aug 2003
19:36:17 +0800
>
> Bob wrote:
>
> >** Reply to note from Bruce Humphrey <brucehum@...> Thu, 31 Jul
2003 20:32:58 +0800
> >
>
> >Pardon my ignorance but what on earth does the above have to do with "Kirk
> >Session Records"
> >
> >Rest regards,
> >
> >Bob
> >
> >
> >Knowledge emerges only through invention and re-invention, through the
> >restless, impatient, continuing, hopeful inquiry human beings pursue in the
> >world, with the world, and with each other.  (Paulo Friere)
> >
>
> Nothing whatsoever, save that (amongst other matters) re-invention of
> the meaning and/or origin of the word 'kirk' was not aiding knowledge,
> and was creating impatience and restlessness.
>
> "Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: And with all thy
> getting, get understanding." (Ecclesiates)
>
>
>

You sir seem have deliberately "misunderstood" the point of my message.
The subject was "Kirk Session Records" and I have been unable to find any
reference in your posting to "Kirks" or "Records".

But that's OK I have just added you to my twit list.

Regards,

Bob


Knowledge emerges only through invention and re-invention, through the
restless, impatient, continuing, hopeful inquiry human beings pursue in the
world, with the world, and with each other.  (Paulo Friere)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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          brought to you via Postroad Mailer & OS/2 WARP 5.2

NAME: Alex McTurk
         AREA OF GLASGOW: Dalmuir/Clydebank
         FROM: 1920s
         TO:

         YOUR OUTSTANDING MEMORY:

         I was born and bred in Dalmuir which although not a part of Glasgow
is awfy close. I have stayed there all my life.

         My earliest recollection is school. I started at Beardmore Street
School where we had slates and slate pencils. [The school building is still
there today but is used for small business outlets.] The road led down to
Beardmore's shipyard where today the HCI Hospital and Hotel are now
situated.

         The canal which divides Dalmuir into East and West was a great
attraction in our young days, when yachts and fishing boats came through
from the East coast. The boats used to stop at the Canal Bridge to sell fish
to the locals, then some of the fishermen called into the pub after tying up
for the night.

         The Canal Bridge itself was an attraction because it was a swing
bridge and when the weather was hot the metal for the tram rails, which
crossed the bridge, expanded with the heat. This meant the bridge either did
not open or when open did not shut properly. The lock keeper had to come out
with hoses to hose the rails and cool them down. To us youngsters this was
great fun.

         Dalmuir was a happy place to be when we were all young. As boys we
were all football daft. Your schoolbag's most important item was your
"tanner ba' " used at playtime, then came your pieces, and then your
schoolbooks, in that order of importance.

         Summer days when young seemed to be so long and sunny maybe memory
makes us think that this was the case. One thing about summer as boys was
running along with your "Gird and Cleek". The local shipyard must have
produced hundreds as well as the ships they built. A "Bogey" made out of an
old orange box and pram wheels was another source of fun.

         Before the 1939-1945 war Dalmuir Public Park was a popular
attraction as there was always a brass band playing in the bandstand every
Sunday afternoon. Big crowds gathered in the sunshine to sit, listen and
enjoy the entertainment along with their ice cream. Dancing, with our age
group at that time,  was also popular and you always met people selling
tickets for the local dances and functions. We also had tennis, golf and
swings for the kids in the park. A great time was had by one and all.

         Then ... War. We were a generation of boys and girls who were called
up, some of whom came through, some who did not. The Clydebank Blitz of
March 13-14, 1941 changed the town completely. Many Bankies were killed,
many were injured and left homeless through the bombing of their homes. Only
8 houses in the whole town was left undamaged after these two horrific
nights.

         Amazingly, however, the town sprang back to life, the majority of
Bankies finding employment with Singers or John Brown's which lasted
uninterrupted till the late 1970s.

         Today where Singers stood we have Radio Clyde and a thriving
business Park near the Clyde Shopping Centre. John Brown's is now UIE and
where once the great liners were built we now see oil rigs etching the
skyline.


         Alex

         http://www.welcometoclydebank.org.uk/history/shipyards.shtml


         The original communities within this district were Broomlands,
Luckensford, Craigiehall, Barsale, Rashilea and Erskine. Then when Beardmore
built the hanger etc. for the dirigible in the early twenties the houses for
their employees were built at what is now known as Beardmore Cottages. When
Beardmore's venture failed the property was purchased in the late twenties
by
         an American company called India Tyres from Akron, Ohio to develop
it into a tyre production factory. The first manager was Paul Worth who had
a house right on the factory grounds. He was still the manager when I
started work there in the mid fifties (I worked there for ten years before
immigrating to Canada in 1967) though he no longer lived on the property.
His house was converted into the Fire Dept.
         http://www.inchinnan.org.uk/history/people/jimmy_monson.htm
         http://www.clydeshipping.co.uk/viewalbum.asp?folder=Steam+Yachts

----- Original Message -----
From: <MITSFN1@...>
To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Beardmores Shipyard


>
> Is there a web site called Beardmores Shipyard?
>
> My great grandfather(Arthur McKenna) worked as a Rivetmaker Journeyman.
>
> Thank you,
> Michele
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
> Scots Origins (www.scotsorigins.com). The group has been set up so that
members can share genealogical information about Scotland, to reply send an
email to scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
scots-origins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There is obviously a secret part of this site where
people sit around laughing immoderately at private
jokes, eating lemon curd from silver spoons and being
invited to parties in New Zealand......
What about the rest of us?

Also, to the lady who objected to all the "funny" bits
tacked on at the end- most of us can't do anything
about it, because it's the (advertising) price we pay
for having free email. I like Yahoo but I wish they
wouldn't append all their stuff to my emails. However,
I'm too much of a Scot to pass up the chance of
something for nothing. Like a lot of other people, I
stick in my own wee toty bits at the end in a feeble
attempt to get my own back.

"Mains of Tolquhon"-I'm not sure that the wrong
information about this was ever corrected. "Mains
of....anything" is a farm. Twelve year old farm
servants were commonplace right up to the twentieth
century. My grandmother was one. She was glad to get a
bed to herself, enough to eat, and a penny to put in
the collection at church. Being a canny Scottish
papist, she kept the penny for herself but cherished
the Presbyterian kindness which gave her the coin and
"a pandrop for the sermon".

Oh...crofts...I've always wanted one-and they DID
exist in Ireland as well...only without becoming the
legal triumph which is the Scottish croft-"a piece of
land surrounded by regulations".

Rosemary





=====
"loun" or "loon":

1.A fellow of the lower orders
2.A rogue, wretch, scoundrel.
3.A sexually immoral person.
4.A fellow, chap, lad.
5.Nickname for a native of Forfar.
6.A boy or youth as opposed to a lassie.
7.A male child, a son, a baby boy

The Concise Scots Dictionary

________________________________________________________________________
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Hi Folks

Any Glaswegians know of Oak St in Glasgow around 1897 I have searched old
maps and new maps also street name changes but I still cant find it.

Bill in Aust.

"ScotHeritage" wrote:

  > Ian I am not familure with the south so I do not like to comment on
  > some of the issues. I meant no slight or to suggest there were not
  > crofts in the south.

I think the point was not that there were crofts in the south, but that
there were crofts in the Lowlands (which extend from Caithness to the
Tweed).

  > As to the changing face of the crofts, the change could not come too
  > soon. I remember the days when you had to run out back to use the
  > lavie, and the whole place was heated by a single peat fire which was
  > also used to cook on.

Exactly the situation in my grandmother's house in Aberdeen (with the
sole exception that the fuel was coal, which had to be bought, as
opposed to the peats, which are laborious to cut, but free for the
taking).  The crofters and the highlanders had no monopoly on misery.


Gavin Bell

Lynn Mason.

Just goes to prove we are all different.  How boring the world would be if
we were all the same, had the same thoughts - Yuck.  Vive le differance!!!!

AF(NZ) (no disclaimers, no copyright statements, no virus alerts, just my
own thoughts.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Mason" <lynn.feral07@...>
To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 12:35 AM
Subject: [scots-origins] groups

I am looking for information on alexander findlater born about 1835
in aberdeen.

Thanks for all the info will look into it.
    Cheers,   Lily
A Flower of Scotland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alistair Cameron" <acameron@...>
To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: [scots-origins] fathers of illegitimate children


>
>
> Lily wrote:
>
> > I was born in 1937 and am illegitmate, and have no father on my
certificate
> > didn't  even get  a birth certificate just one with the heading
> > "ILLEGITIMATE". even to this day when i applied for my birth cert.
lately it
> > is still  in the same format. does that help?
>
> You might do well to examine the birth register or have a professional do
it for you. If there is a coded entry "RCE.." in the margin then there is a
cross ref to another source held at New
> register House.
>
> It is also possible that your birth was twice registered, with differences
between. If your name is Wilhelmina then search again as Williamina. if your
name is Janet then search again as
> Jessie. And so on.........
>
> The church attended by your birth mother or by your adoptive mother if
applicable, probably has a Baptism record. The Kirk Session or Minister
would often attempt to procure a marriage of
> the parent couple, or at least attempt to ensure sustenance of the babe
and sometimes the mother who may have lost her job or otherwise been in
financial trouble. The Kirk Session book is
> possibly still at the Church, and this may be checked along with the
Christening register. Note, some Churches resist giving up their registers
to a central repository.
>
>
> >    Lily A Flower of Scotland
>
> Cheers,
>
> ALISTAIR M. CAMERON        http://quozl.netrek.org/cameron-research/
>
> PO Box 215 BUNDANOON NSW 2578 AUSTRALIA
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
> Scots Origins (www.scotsorigins.com). The group has been set up so that
members can share genealogical information about Scotland, to reply send an
email to scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
scots-origins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

In a message dated 7/31/03 1:18:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, WMILNE8@...
writes:


> Sorry Kate but my husbands Milnes are from the east coast
>

I saw this message on the list.  I have MILNE'S in my tree.  They were living
in Dundee.  I have a William Milne (b.1833) married to a Marjory Kennedy with
7 children, but my connection was Bella White Milne who married Alexander
Dunlop in 1908.  Just curious.
Carol


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: <Epaxton@...>
To: <SCT-ARGYLL-L@...>
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 4:33 PM
Subject: [ARGYLL] UK geography beginners guide


> With thanks to Stan Mapstone the list owner for Sunderland
> list............... probably helpful to those unfamiliar with the UK
>
> http://www.statistics.gov.uk/geography/beginners_guide.asp
>
>
> edward
> Limpsfield, Surrey
> Using Norton Anti-Virus 2003
>
>
> ==== SCT-ARGYLL Mailing List ====
> *****************************************************************
> http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/Scotland/Argyll is the
> GenConnect board for Argyll
>

Hi
   I am so excited to have found this site, my mother and her family
came from scotland, I think they came over to the US in 1935, but I
am unable to get anymore information because everyone has passed on.
Sorry to say I don't know my Grandmothers maiden name but my
Grandfarther name was Robert Mccourtie, and he had 2 sons one named
Alexander and one James.
   I do remember my Grandmother speaking of a city and please forgive
the spelling Occenlech. I never saw it in print, just heard her say
it.
    My dream is to go to scotland, and visit relatives. I would
appreciate any tips you could give me to track down my ancesters.
Thanks
Pam

I am still searching for the maternal side of my Great Grandfather Ezra L.
Fowler. I have no surname for her. I recently unearthed another name in my quest
for my Scottish GGGreatgrandmother.  Could the surname "Gabriel" have a chance
of being Scottish?  I have always thought of it as being English or French.

I need your opinion.

Darline Fowler Smith



"If you have a garden and a library you have everything you need."

-Cicero


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi there all

I am looking for

James Kerr born approx 1793 in Ireland.
Married
Cecilia McLachlan/McLauchlan. Died before 1867.

The story is that they made several trips back forth from Glasgow,
Lanarkshire to Co.Donegal, Ireland & so am trying to see if I can
find anything else on them or maybe another contact.

Children:
John Kerr Born: Ireland
Mary Kerr Born: 1825 in Ireland
Susan Kerr Born: 1828 in Ireland
**Bridget Kerr Born: 1834 in Kilaghtee, Co.Donegal, Ireland.**
Fanny Kerr Born: 1839 in Ireland
**Ann Kerr Born: 1841-44 in Co.Donegal, Ireland **

Bridget Kerr married James Haughey on the 21st May 1854 in Gorbals
Glasgow, Scotland where they had 11 children. Immigrating to New
Zeaand in 1874 with 6 children.

Ann Kerr married Jeremiah McCartey on the 22 July 1867 in St.Johns
Chapel, Glagow. Where they had 3 children in Glasgow and another 5 in
New Zealand. They immigrated later on in 1874 to New Zealand.

Other children found of a James Kerr & a CHRSTINA McLachlan are:
Duncan Kerr b. 17 January 1830 in Hutchesontown, Gorbals, Glasgow
Margaret Kerr b. 7 January 1832 in Hutchesontown, Gorbals, Glasgow
Helen Kerr, b. 21 April 1834 in Hutchesontown, Gorbals, Glasgow
James Kerr, b. 13 July 1836 in Hutchesontown, Gorbals, Glasgow
William Kerr, b. 8 November 1838 in Hutchesontown, Gorbals, Glasgow

1851 Census: Found John,Mary,Susan,**Bridget, Fanny & **Ann Kerr
residing in Glasgow.
1861 Census: Found James (father), Susan, Fanny & Ann Kerr also
residing in Glasgow.


This could well be 2 separate families but would love to hear from
anyone else who may be researching these families.

I would ideally love to find them on the 1871 Census as I think this
would soon tell me another story.

Thanks
Judy
spookz@...
Hamilton, New Zealand

Rena, there is a reference to Crum Family in an article at the
following website:

http://www.eng.uci.edu/students/mpontius/hartley/177-179_.html

If you have problems getting through to this, it can be found on
Rampant Scotland.

http://www.rampantscotland.com/genealogy.htm

Dorothy

mark douglas wrote:

><snip> ... the American army of occupation ... <snip>
>

Hear! Hear! Just thought you Brits ought to know (if you don't already)
that a large minority (about 40%) of the people in the US were/are
against the war of aggression in Iraq, and consider what Bush is doing
as murder and lies, and that his actions are fueled (sorry for the pun!)
by his lust for the oil fields of Iraq, not by a desire for "Iraqi Freedom"!
I hope I'm not in danger now!
Sandi in Idaho

David

With regard to information you seek regarding a ship which sank after
leaving Port Ellen on Islay in 1850 here are a couple of sources to
try.

1)  The Museum of Islay Life, Port Charlotte, Isle of Islay, Argyll
PA48 7UA.  Web address is www.islaymuseum.freeserve.co.uk and the
email address is curator@....  The phone/fax
number is 01496 850358.

2)  The Islay Family History Society web address is
www.ileach.co.uk/familyhistory and their email address is
islayfamilyhistory@...

Perhaps one of these will be able to help in your search.

Good luck!

Christina Johnston


>             I am trying to see if there are any newspapers archives
> online that would have covered June 1850. I am looking for
information
> on an immigrant ship which sank after leaving Port Ellen on Islay in
> June 1850. Any sources would be helpful. I am told it sparked an
> investigation but I have not been able to find anything on it.
>
>
>
>             Thanks,
>
>             David Sutherland
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> It is interesting to see the bits and pieces of the wedding customs
> described that have carried over the pond to the USA.  Some are falling
out
> of style as the old traditions are replaced (evolve?) by new traditions -
as
> must be happening in other countries too.

One of the things I love about America is the fact that, like the many
different types of people who emmigrated here, their customs come as well!

An interesting wedding custom in the Southwestern part of America comes from
the Mexican culture, but is often used in weddings of all sorts.

The bride dances with her father (not that unusual) and the guests pin money
to her.  It is a way to help the young couple start out their life together
with a little bit of a nest egg.  A lot of people here are using that
custom; even if they are not of Mexican decent.

Margaret
Phoenix, Arizona

Dave

I've found that often the best way to take the sting out of someone else's
intentional insult is to hug it closely and take it as your own. Despite
what I said about how my family (in Glasgow) use the term Teuchtar, there
are several branches of my family that are well-qualified to be called that
and refer to themselves as such. In London, for instance, ethnic youths will
refer to themselves by the very names that were hurled as grotesque insults
at their parents in the 1950s/60s/70s. It's a show of contempt and a lack of
respect for those who believe themselves to be their betters - and it works
an absolute treat.

And for those of you who are a mite concerned about this being off-topic, my
response would be that society changes with time, and language and attitudes
to incomers (whether they are from the next village, county or continent)
reflect and affect these changes. It's part of living history and we are
merely recording, recalling and reflecting on this history.

Julianne

----- Original Message -----
From: <ScotHeritage@...>
To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [scots-origins] Teuchters was Dave


> In a message dated 31/07/2003 05:47:56 Central Daylight Time,
> Mulholland@... writes:
>
> While it did start off as a slur it has also been adopted by we Gaels as a
> rather funny remark and used between us. The Big un, (Billy Connely) uses
it in
> one of his acts for a few young lassies in the audience from the north of
> Scotland and describes it as meaning Tuch Tough, (a tough chicken) He
makes some
> rather politically INcorrect observations and if I ever stop laughing I
may be
> quite offended. One of his remarks is that when they see a bus they all
scream
> "Look a hoose on wheels" mind you since the man makes as much if not more
fun
> of his own Galsgow and it's population how can anyone get angry. There are
> several Gaelic commics who do the same and much worse when doing their
acts in
> the north. MacLean does a whole act based on the drunken Teuchter.  There
is a
> historic link to this in as much as there is a bit truth in every
comedian's
> act. The North did suffer a number of social issues very similar to the
North
> American Natives due to high unemployment, lack of future and poverty. But
a
> great deal has changed in the last 10 or 20 years. It certainly throws a
bit of
> a block in the vision of the Brigadoon we all like to imagine as the
> Highlands, or the thought of our ancestors doing a Highland charge. The
realities of
> life can be a real downer. MInd you me it's still good for a laugh at
times, as
> can be seen in the books by Mr. Compton MacKenzie.
> Dave
>
>
> > My penny's worth - to us (my family, that is) a teuchter is a
> > carrot-cruncher, a yokel or bumpkin. However, would you believe it's
never
> > used to be offensive but an "affectionate" shorthand to denote someone
not
> > from the sprawling metropolis of Glasgow (this is rather like Londoners
> > claiming everyone north of Watford is a Northerner and, therefore,
beyond
> > civilisation, naturally). You'd never guess from our family use of
language
> > that we live in scattered parts of the world and have a diverse ethnic
mix
> > ...Julianne
> >
>
>
>  MOL DO OIGHREACHD   CELEBRATE YOUR HERITAGE
> to listen to ScotRadio just click below      Click here for short films
> <A
HREF="http://www.live365.com/stations/240319">http://www.live365.com/station
s/240319</A>    <A
HREF="http://tvscots.neptune.com/index.html?selectedalbum_id=tvscots20033241
324203652">http://tvscots.neptune.com</A>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
> Scots Origins (www.scotsorigins.com). The group has been set up so that
members can share genealogical information about Scotland, to reply send an
email to scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
>
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>
>

I've checked several map websites including http://www.old-maps.co.uk/, but I
haven't been able to find these streets on any map.

My grandfather, Alexander Martin Forrest, was born at 5 Ross Street, Ferniegair,
Hamilton to Janet Allan Forrest on September 1, 1896. The RCE information on the
back of my grandfather's birth certificate indicates that Archibald Martin,
Miner, 8 Ferniegair Rows (writing is a little unclear), Hamilton was the father
of this illegitimate child.

I have not been able to find Ross Street or Ferniegair Rows on any map. Does
anyone familiar with Hamilton know whether these streets have been renamed or
still exist?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

Mary Ann

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Carin

With regards to the first part of your question, I'll leave that to someone
with real knowledge to respond to you.

I can tell you, however, that you are unlikely to be given access to your
father's army records without his written permission while he is still
alive. The MOD are especially sensitive with regards Data Protection rights.
However, if you can establish a real welfare issue you may find that the
Army Welfare Office (call your local barracks if you are based in the UK -
or, if not, e-mail me off list and I'll give you further details) may be of
some help.

Julianne


----- Original Message -----
From: "carin smith" <carin@...>
To: <scots-origins@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 5:06 PM
Subject: [scots-origins] [scots origins] British Army 1946-50


> Could someone give me an idea of which countries the army may have been
based during the period 1946 -50, and can I access records of my fathers
army career whilst he still alive to find out more about his first marriage
and birth of my half brother?
>
> Carin
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This message comes from the Scots Origins Discussion Group, sponsored by
> Scots Origins (www.scotsorigins.com). The group has been set up so that
members can share genealogical information about Scotland, to reply send an
email to scots-origins@yahoogroups.com
>
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to:
scots-origins-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>