Hi Harry,

  have a feeling I'm sailing close to the wind on this one, though I expect you
will take my response in good part.

--- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Harry Roth <groups@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, Jake,
>
> jakeus72 wrote:
> > I view very negatively the interpretation 'Bornless' promulgated by Mathers
and Crowley on the specious grounds that Head can mean 'beginning' in Hebrew.
Even where this so,
>
> The Hebrew word for head, rosh, is and has been regularly used for
> "beginning," as in Rosh Hodesh, the beginning of the month (New Moon), and >
Rosh Hashanah, the beginning of the year, for just a couple of examples. > That
said, if something is headless in that context, it would mean that it > doesn't
have a beginning, no? That could then be taken to mean someone who > was not
born. So it's not *totally* off the wall to call it "Bornless."

I've understood all that since before my hair turned grey, but he isn't the
Rosh-less one, but the A-kephalos.

In other words the language is Greek, the god Egyptian (Ptolemaic at that), so
why invoke Hebrew in the first place? Answer because 'pop' Qabalah was seen as
the master key to all things magical in the Western tradition back in the C19th,
and we're having trouble outgrowing that delusion even now.  So excuse me for
trying.


> >  Incidentally depictions of God riding in a chariot in the midst of the
Zodiac in ancient synagogue mosaics have much to do with Hellenistic influences
of this kind.
>
> The depictions at the synagogue of Dura-Europos are indeed in the
> Greco-Roman pop style, but that doesn't mean that the content originated in
Greco-Roman pop culture.

please explain, is the Temple of the pantheistic solar deity Zeus Heliopolitanus
at Baalbek - considered to be a masterpiece of Roman architecture, and not an
ounce of concrete employed - mere 'pop culture' while a synagogue isn't? I am
well aware that Judaism produced intellectuals from Philo and Maimonides to
Sigmund Freud and Einstein, demonstrating its stature ancient and modern, but
the gentiles have made some contributions to civilisation too.

And getting back to the Headless One a moment, he doesn't ride a chariot, and
isn't a part of Jewish iconography. There may be a headless demon somewhere in
the Judaic tradition, but it is a fair bet he isn't synonymous with Jehovah. So
once again, just how does a C19th etymological conceit help us here?


The concept of God in a chariot is right out of
> the Hebrew Bible and not influenced by Greek mythology. It coincides with
> YHVH Tsevaot [Lord God of Hosts], which is an ancient Hebrew view of God,
> and also with the vision of the Chariot, which is much later but definitely
> not Greek.

I am not the first - nor the best-educated - to notice that in the context of
the papyri Helios 'competes' with IHVH Sabaoth. Indeed they frequently exchange
attributes, and are both as intimately involved in the development of 'Abraxas'.
I concede oriental influences on the Greeks (Crete was colonised around 6000 BC,
from the Eastern side), but there seems to be a reluctance to give the Greeks
credit in return, while folks conveniently forget that the ancient Middle East
doesn't reduce to Moses and Solomon.

It is a fair bet that the most important and enduring oriental influences on
Greece included Asia Minor, not to mention Syria (where the Greeks had ample
connection with Babylonians aka Chaldeans all their very own).

So let's talk about the Hellenic,Syriac and Jewish super-god in the papyri.

Certainly IAO (IHVH Grecized) is the most commonly invoked god in the entire
genre, but Helios is by far the most commonly invoked Greek god.

Yes, even more so than Hermes, which must surely surprise some Western
magicians.

Now I've gone over and over the academic stuff I can lay my hands on and it
looks like the presence of Jewish elements is treated as a given, despite
endless quibbling over details, and accumulation of footnotes referencing Syria
and so forth. Helios contrastingly gets swiftly passed over as if his presence
was unimportant or accidental, which it clearly isn't.

Now the inter-linkage  of Helios with Eastern gods is exceedingly ancient, and
involves several oriental cultures. Once he gets syncretized with Apollo (600
BCE if memory serves) all sorts of things kick off in Greek culture, which I
don't have time to even summarise; just take it from me for now they are a big
deal. Rhodes was obviously superbly placed for contact with ancient Syria, along
with some of the other Greek islands where knowledge of astronomy first advanced
in the Greek world - such as Samos.

>You are right that the zodiac is foreign to the ancient Hebrew
> world view. It came in with the Babylonian captivity, however, and not from
Greece. All the planet names (and lunar month names, lots of which are actually
zodiacal signs) in Hebrew are Babylonian and came into the culture a few
centuries before the Hasmoneans, the main Greek influence on Judaism,

Thing is Harry, Western magicians don't practice Babylonian star-lore,  they
practice - or at least recognise - 'Astrology'. A 'Logy' is what happens when
the Greeks get their systemizing mitts on a body of tradition, in this case
Babylonian tradition. By Greeks of course I mean Greek speaking intellectuals,
and when it comes to the Hellenic period, as well as earlier, rather a lot of
them were Syrian, Egyptian and so forth. There was - of course - a huge
percentage of Jews in Alexandria, where we might locate the emergence of the
Western Tradition in the form we now recognise. But they weren't alone, nor was
Egypt the only place where this sort of melting pot was happening. The poor old
forgotten Seleucids in Syria had quite a bunch of Hellenized thinkers and
brilliant astronomers of their own - but no sexy Cleopatra and no Tutankhamun
either! So they don't figure much in 'pop' culture, while Egypt and Israel do.

Problem is, whether we are talking about gods or processes, cultures rarely
adopt wholesale something which has nothing similar in their own culture, it has
to serve a need, and be reshaped according to local conditions. This rarely
happens in a one way street, especially in the cosmopolitan phase of
civilisation initiated by Greek expansion eastwards. So who invented the 'Ascent
rituals' in which the chariot is so important a feature? Academia may never
finally decide, but while Jewish gnostics have a good hand in the game, so do
plenty of other folks.

I have no beef with Judaising tendencies in magic particularly, and they are
very far from being unrepresented. On the other hand I no more believe that the
Jews were wholly responsible for Abraxas than I believe the Hebrew tongue is the
oldest hieratic language, and the one and only key to all Western magic
regardless of time and place of origin on a case to case basis.

Fact is that Hellenistic ideas influenced the Jews as well as vice versa -
textual analysis of Homer is far older than Kabbalah, while Philo *deliberately*
Hellenised textual studies of Judaism. The figure of an all powerful cosmocrator
evolved from more primitive deities, in cultures which were in contact - he is
just as likely to have been a Syrian Baal with a chalet on Rhodes as a IHVH with
a condo in Egypt. And either way, when it comes to pagan magic as in the papyri
the Syrian form gets on better with the Greek.

Western civilisation was once thought to be built on twin pillars -
Judaeo-Christian on one side, Classical on the other. We now know this is a
gross simplification. Nevertheless consigning Classical lore to the dumpster
while retaining Judaeo-Christian 'moral superiority' is not an option for me. 
Nor, unless we are content to be Chaos magicians with traditional tendencies, is
it an option for Western magicians.

ALWays

Jake

--- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "kheph777" <kheph777@...> wrote:
> On another tangent:
>
> The Rite includes some instructions for preparation before moving into the
full invocation.  In part, it tells you to face the north and recite "Six
Names."  Has anyone yet discovered what these six names are?  There are a hell
of a lot more than six names mentioned in the invocation itself...
>
> LVX
> Aaron

Thelema Aaron,

My feeling is that the six names intended are:

AOT ABAOT BASUM ISAK SABAOT IAO.

This same string appears in other related rituals and is clearly climactic in
the Headless One.

ALWays

Jake

Greetings, RO

Well, to put it back into the context of the original post, I was addressing
someeone who appeared to have no magickal experience whatsoever.

Even in your case, you suggest first conuring the Genius and Michael.  So a
person would presumably have enough experience to accomplish that before going
for the Bornless.

As someone else here pointed out, it is definitely a Solar/Tipharethic Rite, and
one of the more advanced ones at that.  I think that might be a bit advanced for
a true novice to jump directly into.

On another tangent:

The Rite includes some instructions for preparation before moving into the full
invocation.  In part, it tells you to face the north and recite "Six Names." 
Has anyone yet discovered what these six names are?  There are a hell of a lot
more than six names mentioned in the invocation itself...

LVX
Aaron



--- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Rufus Opus <rufusopus@...> wrote:
>
> Quoting kheph777 <kheph777@...>:
>
>
> > Now, if you want us to cover the subject of protection magick, we
> > can do that.  I would NOT suggest the Bornless Rite.  On one hand, I
> > would not suggest a beginner ever play around with that ceremony.
>
> Hey Aaron, I'm taking this out of context to pursue a tangent, hope
> you don't mind.
>
> Why wouldn't you suggest a beginner start with the Bornless Rite? It's
> one of the things I suggest people start doing as soon as possible,
> after conjuring the Genius and Michael.
>

Mine of course.  :)

I actually created two files - one is my version of the Bornless Rite, and the
other is a Bornless Eucharist.  Both of them take some inspiration from the
Golden Dawn version of the Rite, but I restored all the Names and invocations to
their original forms.

I had them saved in the MWG Group file section, but they seem to have vanished. 
I'll look for them when I get home in the morning...

LVX
Aaron


--- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Sara Amis <mabonwy@...> wrote:
>
> So, which available version of the ritual do you all think is the best one,
> and why?
>
> Sara
>
> --
> "Always dream and shoot higher than you know you can do. Don't bother just
> to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than
> yourself." -- William Faulkner
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I agree with Aaron. The Bornless is the Tipheret Working. Doing so too early
tends to cause issues that should be resolved with simple banishing or
protection magick.

Note that using it for *EVERYTHING* comes from the Crowley Goetia, I'm not
familiar with it being widely used at lower grades before that point (as per
_Zanoni_).
 
My Hermetic Order:
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.theorderofmichaelsgrail.com/">http://www.theorderofmichaelsgrai\
l.com/</a>


My Egyptian Org:
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PAS_Meriti/">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/P\
AS_Meriti/</a>


My Thelema:
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://groups.yahoo..com/group/AlchemicThelema/">http://groups.yahoo.com/g\
roup/AlchemicThelema/</a>




________________________________
From: Rufus Opus <rufusopus@...>
To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 10:33:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Solomonic] Re: Is the Bornless ritual satanic?

 
Quoting kheph777 <kheph777@yahoo. com>:

> Now, if you want us to cover the subject of protection magick, we
> can do that. I would NOT suggest the Bornless Rite. On one hand, I
> would not suggest a beginner ever play around with that ceremony.

Hey Aaron, I'm taking this out of context to pursue a tangent, hope
you don't mind.

Why wouldn't you suggest a beginner start with the Bornless Rite? It's
one of the things I suggest people start doing as soon as possible,
after conjuring the Genius and Michael.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Not at all Rufus. The Agothodemon is associated with The Serpent because it is
Cthonic. See Farnell's _Hero Cults_, and Harrison's _Prologea_. It is the form
that Olympianises to Vesta/Hestia see _Ancient City_; its not Satan its Grandpa!
 

http://tinyurl. com/yaxnmfj

It's the original rite as translated by Betz. NO mention of Satan at
all. Only the "Good Messenger of God" or Agathosdaimon, a Hellenistic
spirit associated with Apollo and the Oracle of Delphi. Which was
symbolized by a Serpent, which was probably Satan anyway, so I would
be awfully carreful. Wouldn't want your Christian heart tempted by the
EVIL ONE while you're heading into a Tiphareth initiation.

Heavens forbid.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You took Apollos name in vain n woked Scarlettte ;)
 
My Hermetic Order:
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://www.theorderofmichaelsgrail.com/">http://www.theorderofmichaelsgrai\
l.com/</a>


My Egyptian Org:
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PAS_Meriti/">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/P\
AS_Meriti/</a>


My Thelema:
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlchemicThelema/">http://groups.yahoo.com/gr\
oup/AlchemicThelema/</a>




________________________________
From: Rufus Opus <rufusopus@...>
To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 10:29:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Solomonic] Is the Bornless One Ritual Satanic?

 
Quoting Scarlet Magdalene <scarlet.magdalene@ gmail.com>:

> The HGA is roughly akin to the Greek concept of the Agathos Daimon, who was
> depicted as a young man but also as a winged serpent--AKA a dragon.
>
> Why people think dragons are somehow linked to Satanism, I don't know. Are
> you new to Western occultism?

Hey Chicka! What stirred you outta the cave? Good to see you posting again.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

.......

Thee I invoke, the Postless One!

Thee that didst create the Igroup and the Blog, Thee that didst create the chat
and the email

Thou art Worldwidewebious! Whom no server hast seen at any time.

Thou art Internetious, Thou art Yahoogroupious!

Thou did create the Server and the keyboard.

Thou didst distigush between the file and the spam.

Thou has made us to post to one another and to YELL to one another.

I am thy prophet BillGatious to whom thou has committed they
Mysteries, the
Secrets  of Microsoft!

Read thou my email and make every program subject on to me.....

...The server wrapped with a mouse cord is my name........

:-)

Thee that didst create the

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 3, 2010, at 10:26 PM, "kheph777" <kheph777@...> wrote:



--- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Tyler Brown <tyler8779@...> wrote:
>
> I looked at the Bornless Ritual translations...
[....]
> And what would you use it for?

I just realized that this last question was never answered...

The Bornless Rite was a preface to an exorcism. Contrary to popular belief, it
was NOT an exorcism in and of itself. It is simply an invocation of the Highest
Divine Force (comprehensible to man) before an exorcism is attempted.

It can still be used for its original purpose. It can also be used anytime pure
Divine Brilliance must be invoked.

The Golden Dawn adapted it for invocation of the Holy Guardian Angel. Though
many in the GD erroneously believe that Abramelin's HGA is the Higher Self, I
have found the Bornless Rite useful even with the more traditional view of the
HGA as an objective entity. The Guardian Angel is very closely related to the
Logos/Christos concept, so the Bornless Rite is relevant to it.

On the other hand, I should point out that the Bornless is not a safe and
friendly Rite that should be performed just for the fun of it, or as a standard
ritual opening, etc. Other cultures that deal with "Headless" deities consider
their Rites to be extremely dangerous. (In Santeria, invocations of Olokun- the
Headless One- are often thought to lead to the death of the Priest/ess that
invokes Her.)

While I do not think the Bornless Rite will result in death, I still think it
wise to approach the Rite with respect and caution, using it only for the
highest purposes.

LVX
Aaron







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Here is a Link to the Crowley Translation of Libre Samekh


http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib800.html


I have not found anything in the way of good general protection magick.  If you
do not understand magick and how it works, how do you know you are not making
the problem worse with whatever rituals you are doing?


________________________________
From: kheph777 <kheph777@...>
To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 7:48:41 AM
Subject: [Solomonic] Re: Is the Bornless ritual satanic?


KD,

The
best way to make a curse work is to tell a gullible victim that they
have been cursed.  From there, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy.  This
is what has happened to you.

This is not to say that your
attacker isn't working some kind of negative magick against you.  He
*might* even know what he is doing.  But what is plainly obvious from
your two posts here is that this person is going out of his way to
cyber-stalk you and intimidate you when you try to ask others for help.

The
good news is that such a person is not likely working any real magick
against you, and if he is working such magick, then he is likely not
very good at it.  YOU are providing him with what he needs.

Now,
if you want us to cover the subject of protection magick, we can do
that.  I would NOT suggest the Bornless Rite.  On one hand, I would not
suggest a beginner ever play around with that ceremony.  And for
another, it's not a protection ritual.  If anything, you would perform
the Bornless before continuing on to the protection magick.

However,
we can talk about protection spells forever- but if you continue to
insist on running like a scared child from some wanna-be cyber-stalker
who claims to be a Big Scary Black Magician(tm) - then there is nothing
anyone can do for you.

LVX
Aaron

--- In solomonic@yahoogrou ps.com, "Kali" <shiva201061@ ...> wrote:
>
>
hi. i've been under black magic attack 24 hours a day for about twelve
days now and have great difficulty with protection. this is a
continuation of ongoing high level interference and it has been
suggested that i should attempt this ritual even though i am not
officially up to its grade level. Or maybe i am, but haven't done the
ceremony yet. i am wondering if its possible to get a copy of the
ritual from somewhere
>
> KD
>

That's kind of a harsh way to put it, but it *is* a good idea to make sure
you're not unconsciously complicit in abuse or attack.  However, just because
there are people who react with misguided submissiveness to bullies or harbor
beliefs that they don't have the right to defend themselves doesn't mean you're
one of them.  Still, it is important for you as a magician to be queen of
your own life, and to thereby weild the authority that directs your immensely
powerful inner guardian to crush any who would assail you.  If you doubt that
you have the right to win, and prefer someone else to weild the responsibility
associated with aggressive behavior, the outcome for you will depend upon
whether someone else feels like stepping up as your white knight.  Anyway, the
guy probably doesn't want you dead, he's probably just trying to make you his
bee-yotch.  Get a weapon and learn to use it.  Also, get clarity about your
ethical system so that you can
  hold your ground without self-doubt; lack of inner conflict is key to full
access to your power.  If you have some kind of emotional attachment to the
guy, analyze what sort of person would attempt to terrorize or murder someone
who cares about them.  Such a person doesn't deserve mercy, you'll find.
 
Layo


--- On Mon, 1/4/10, kheph777 <kheph777@...> wrote:


From: kheph777 <kheph777@...>
Subject: [Solomonic] Re: Is the Bornless ritual satanic?
To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 5:48 AM


 



KD,

The best way to make a curse work is to tell a gullible victim that they have
been cursed. From there, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. This is what has
happened to you.

This is not to say that your attacker isn't working some kind of negative magick
against you. He *might* even know what he is doing. But what is plainly obvious
from your two posts here is that this person is going out of his way to
cyber-stalk you and intimidate you when you try to ask others for help.

The good news is that such a person is not likely working any real magick
against you, and if he is working such magick, then he is likely not very good
at it. YOU are providing him with what he needs.

Now, if you want us to cover the subject of protection magick, we can do that. I
would NOT suggest the Bornless Rite. On one hand, I would not suggest a beginner
ever play around with that ceremony. And for another, it's not a protection
ritual. If anything, you would perform the Bornless before continuing on to the
protection magick.

However, we can talk about protection spells forever- but if you continue to
insist on running like a scared child from some wanna-be cyber-stalker who
claims to be a Big Scary Black Magician(tm) - then there is nothing anyone can
do for you.

LVX
Aaron

--- In solomonic@yahoogrou ps.com, "Kali" <shiva201061@ ...> wrote:
>
> hi. i've been under black magic attack 24 hours a day for about twelve days
now and have great difficulty with protection. this is a continuation of ongoing
high level interference and it has been suggested that i should attempt this
ritual even though i am not officially up to its grade level. Or maybe i am, but
haven't done the ceremony yet. i am wondering if its possible to get a copy of
the ritual from somewhere
>
> KD
>
> --- In solomonic@yahoogrou ps.com, "kheph777" <kheph777@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In solomonic@yahoogrou ps.com, Tyler Brown <tyler8779@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I looked at the Bornless Ritual translations. ..
> > [...]
> > > And what would you use it for?
> >
> > I just realized that this last question was never answered...
> >
> > The Bornless Rite was a preface to an exorcism. Contrary to popular belief,
it was NOT an exorcism in and of itself. It is simply an invocation of the
Highest Divine Force (comprehensible to man) before an exorcism is attempted.
> >
> > It can still be used for its original purpose. It can also be used anytime
pure Divine Brilliance must be invoked.
> >
> > The Golden Dawn adapted it for invocation of the Holy Guardian Angel. Though
many in the GD erroneously believe that Abramelin's HGA is the Higher Self, I
have found the Bornless Rite useful even with the more traditional view of the
HGA as an objective entity. The Guardian Angel is very closely related to the
Logos/Christos concept, so the Bornless Rite is relevant to it.
> >
> > On the other hand, I should point out that the Bornless is not a safe and
friendly Rite that should be performed just for the fun of it, or as a standard
ritual opening, etc. Other cultures that deal with "Headless" deities consider
their Rites to be extremely dangerous. (In Santeria, invocations of Olokun- the
Headless One- are often thought to lead to the death of the Priest/ess that
invokes Her.)
> >
> > While I do not think the Bornless Rite will result in death, I still think
it wise to approach the Rite with respect and caution, using it only for the
highest purposes.
> >
> > LVX
> > Aaron
> >
>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It is worth your time to ask what you are getting, psychologically, out of
participating in this drama. I question whether these interferences are
anything kore than the ordinary bad luck and annoyance of tHE world as it
is, and I questoon whether these attacks are much more than very bad shifts
in mood and perspective, brought on exactly by your insistence that an
oppresive and special power is being brought down on you. It is exactly
becasue I think that magick is very real in an objective way that I would
never allow my own power to be turned against me by wearing the sort of
mind-set that you are now wearing.

As I said at the beginning, I think that if you really, really look at your
motivs and beleifs, that you will find that you get something out of this
drama and thereby participate in validating it--for example, you might get
an increased sense that "this stuff is for rea;"--which it is, but moreso
without the drama than with--you might get to add a level of meaning or at
least  deeper menace to the dialy miseries we all put up with--etc--the main
thing you should consider banishing are thes egames and the main thing you
need to invke is your own resolve to actually make your real life better by
the means readily at hand to all of us.

Benjamin

On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 5:06 AM, Kali <shiva201061@...> wrote:

> my predator claims i've broken a vow for putting my issue on the forum and
> that he has to kill me and has started immediately. i dont believe i have
> broken a vow, and i think he is being unreasonable.i simply said  what is
> happening to me, black attacks and interference and because of my protection
> issue bornless is something i would like to do
>
> In fact rather than killing me now i think it would be better if he changed
> to white so i dont have such a big issue any more and so i have a chance to
> do the ritual.
>
> KD
> --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "kheph777" <kheph777@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
>  > --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Tyler Brown <tyler8779@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I looked at the Bornless Ritual translations...
> > [...]
> > > And what would you use it for?
> >
> > I just realized that this last question was never answered...
> >
> > The Bornless Rite was a preface to an exorcism.  Contrary to popular
> belief, it was NOT an exorcism in and of itself.  It is simply an invocation
> of the Highest Divine Force (comprehensible to man) before an exorcism is
> attempted.
> >
> > It can still be used for its original purpose.  It can also be used
> anytime pure Divine Brilliance must be invoked.
> >
> > The Golden Dawn adapted it for invocation of the Holy Guardian Angel.
>  Though many in the GD erroneously believe that Abramelin's HGA is the
> Higher Self, I have found the Bornless Rite useful even with the more
> traditional view of the HGA as an objective entity.  The Guardian Angel is
> very closely related to the Logos/Christos concept, so the Bornless Rite is
> relevant to it.
> >
> > On the other hand, I should point out that the Bornless is not a safe and
> friendly Rite that should be performed just for the fun of it, or as a
> standard ritual opening, etc.  Other cultures that deal with "Headless"
> deities consider their Rites to be extremely dangerous.  (In Santeria,
> invocations of Olokun- the Headless One- are often thought to lead to the
> death of the Priest/ess that invokes Her.)
> >
> > While I do not think the Bornless Rite will result in death, I still
> think it wise to approach the Rite with respect and caution, using it only
> for the highest purposes.
> >
> > LVX
> > Aaron
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> "Secrets of the Magickal Grimoires" is now available!  Let me know what you
> think.
> http://kheph777.tripod.com/indexsecrets.htmlYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Quoting kheph777 <kheph777@...>:


> Now, if you want us to cover the subject of protection magick, we
> can do that.  I would NOT suggest the Bornless Rite.  On one hand, I
> would not suggest a beginner ever play around with that ceremony.

Hey Aaron, I'm taking this out of context to pursue a tangent, hope
you don't mind.

Why wouldn't you suggest a beginner start with the Bornless Rite? It's
one of the things I suggest people start doing as soon as possible,
after conjuring the Genius and Michael.

Quoting "desi.magia" <desi.magia@...>:

> Hello Rufus.
> I thought i should come back to what you said: that madness isn't
> proof of anu cursing. But I beg to differ.

Are you REALLY trying to say that madness is ALWAYS proof of cursing?
Because that's stupid.

If you're just saying it CAN BE a symptom of cursing, I already said that.

Really, you're just looking to start an argument or brag about
yourself. Why don't you get a blog? that's what I did. :)

Quoting Scarlet Magdalene <scarlet.magdalene@...>:

> The HGA is roughly akin to the Greek concept of the Agathos Daimon, who was
> depicted as a young man but also as a winged serpent--AKA a dragon.
>
> Why people think dragons are somehow linked to Satanism, I don't know. Are
> you new to Western occultism?

Hey Chicka! What stirred you outta the cave? Good to see you posting again.

Quoting Tyler Brown <tyler8779@...>:

> I looked at the Bornless Ritual translations, and it theres a lot of Satan
> my Lord this, and I am wrapped with the Dragon that.
> But that was only in the Crowley translation, in the other translations,
> with slightly changed words, it only mentioned satan once.

It's a conjuration of a Solar Assistant. You use it to conjure a Solar
assistant. check this out:

http://tinyurl.com/yaxnmfj

It's the original rite as translated by Betz. NO mention of Satan at
all. Only the "Good Messenger of God" or Agathosdaimon, a Hellenistic
spirit associated with Apollo and the Oracle of Delphi. Which was
symbolized by a Serpent, which was probably Satan anyway, so I would
be awfully carreful. Wouldn't want your Christian heart tempted by the
EVIL ONE while you're heading into a Tiphareth initiation.

Heavens forbid.

So, which available version of the ritual do you all think is the best one,
and why?

Sara

--
"Always dream and shoot higher than you know you can do. Don't bother just
to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than
yourself." -- William Faulkner


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey Jake!  Welcome back.  :)

As always, I'm glad to see your research into the Greek Papyri.  I wish you'd
write some essays about it and publish them.  ;)

My only point of contention is with your contention over the use of the term
"Bornless."  Personally, I've never considered that "Headless = Bornless" simply
because of Hebrew or the Qabalah.  I've never actually run across that view
before.

Meanwhile, I look at other ancient traditions that recognize Headless Gods.  I
was specifically influenced by what I was taught of the African God/dess Olokun
(who I mentioned in a previous post) - who represents the bottom of the sea, and
is considered "Headless."  This is a direct euphamism to the fact that she has
no beginning.  In this case, the word "head" indicates the same as the head of a
river.  The bottom of the sea has no headwaters, no beginning, no birth.  It
simply "always was" (eternal).

The depictions of Gods in Egyptian/Coptic/Greek/Gnostic occultism are highly
talismanic.  It is, after all, where the art of Iconography (and Talismanic
Imaging) as we know it originated.  The way a God is depicted says something
about its nature - and I strongly suspect that the Headless Gods are depicted as
such because they are extremely exalted eternal Gods who were believed to have
no beginning.

LVX
Aaron


--- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "jakeus72" <jakestrattonkent@...> wrote:
>
>
>  Thelema All,
>
>   the Headless One looks to be as controversial as ever!
>
> There are several layers involved in the ritual, even where it possible to
disregard the GD/AC spin on it (bear in mind they had only a fraction of the
papyri available to them, and things have moved on considerably in that area
since).
>
> I view very negatively the interpretation 'Bornless' promulgated by Mathers
and Crowley on the specious grounds that Head can mean 'beginning' in Hebrew.
Even where this so, the context of the ritual has much more to do with
Greco-Egyptian forms; here, as so often, interpreting everything via 'Qabalah'
is misleading rather than enlightening. Of course from a historiographical point
of view their error is still relevant to an understanding of their respective
systems ('some errors are traditional').Crowley's 'translation' is also coherent
enough in his terms, but it is well to examine the ritual in context.
>
> Comparing the ritual with others in the papyri it becomes apparent that many
of the phrases and some of the names employed are 'stock' terms that can be
found in many invocations of Typhon-Set throughout the genre. Here and in other
examples Typhon-Set is syncretised with the local interpretation of the Jewish
God, as is obvious enough from the opening which can be recognised as an account
of the Seven Days of Creation.
>
> Typhon-Set has been compared to 'Satan', but it would be unwise to push this
too far as quite opposite views prevailed in different periods and among
different people. At one extreme, in a much earlier period, we have the alleged
syncretism of the hated Hyksos god Sutekh (supposed, probably wrongly, to be a
form of Set) with the Jewish God.
>
> Closer to the times of the papyri however quite dissimilar views were current.
An invocation by Martianus Capellus (AD 490) includes Typhon among the forms of
a Universal solar deity (compare Abraxas)along with Apollo & Helios, Serapis,
Osiris, Mithra, Dis, Attis, Ammon & Adonis, and climactically - via a numerical
cipher - with Dionysus. This is a very similar context to Typhon's starring role
in the Headless One. Incidentally depictions of God riding in a chariot in the
midst of the Zodiac in ancient synagogue mosaics have much to do with
Hellenistic influences of this kind.
>
> ALWays
>
> Jake
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "kheph777" <kheph777@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Tyler Brown <tyler8779@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I looked at the Bornless Ritual translations...
> > [...]
> > > And what would you use it for?
> >
> > I just realized that this last question was never answered...
> >
> > The Bornless Rite was a preface to an exorcism.  Contrary to popular belief,
it was NOT an exorcism in and of itself.  It is simply an invocation of the
Highest Divine Force (comprehensible to man) before an exorcism is attempted.
> >
> > It can still be used for its original purpose.  It can also be used anytime
pure Divine Brilliance must be invoked.
> >
> > The Golden Dawn adapted it for invocation of the Holy Guardian Angel. 
Though many in the GD erroneously believe that Abramelin's HGA is the Higher
Self, I have found the Bornless Rite useful even with the more traditional view
of the HGA as an objective entity.  The Guardian Angel is very closely related
to the Logos/Christos concept, so the Bornless Rite is relevant to it.
> >
> > On the other hand, I should point out that the Bornless is not a safe and
friendly Rite that should be performed just for the fun of it, or as a standard
ritual opening, etc.  Other cultures that deal with "Headless" deities consider
their Rites to be extremely dangerous.  (In Santeria, invocations of Olokun- the
Headless One- are often thought to lead to the death of the Priest/ess that
invokes Her.)
> >
> > While I do not think the Bornless Rite will result in death, I still think
it wise to approach the Rite with respect and caution, using it only for the
highest purposes.
> >
> > LVX
> > Aaron
> >
>

Hi, Jake,

jakeus72 wrote:
> I view very negatively the interpretation 'Bornless' promulgated by Mathers
and Crowley on the specious grounds that Head can mean 'beginning' in Hebrew.
Even where this so,

The Hebrew word for head, rosh, is and has been regularly used for
"beginning," as in Rosh Hodesh, the beginning of the month (New Moon), and
Rosh Hashanah, the beginning of the year, for just a couple of examples.
That said, if something is headless in that context, it would mean that it
doesn't have a beginning, no? That could then be taken to mean someone who
was not born. So it's not *totally* off the wall to call it "Bornless."

>  Incidentally depictions of God riding in a chariot in the midst of the Zodiac
in ancient synagogue mosaics have much to do with Hellenistic influences of this
kind.

The depictions at the synagogue of Dura-Europos are indeed in the
Greco-Roman pop style, but that doesn't mean that the content originated in
Greco-Roman pop culture. The concept of God in a chariot is right out of
the Hebrew Bible and not influenced by Greek mythology. It coincides with
YHVH Tsevaot [Lord God of Hosts], which is an ancient Hebrew view of God,
and also with the vision of the Chariot, which is much later but definitely
not Greek. You are right that the zodiac is foreign to the ancient Hebrew
world view. It came in with the Babylonian captivity, however, and not from
Greece. All the planet names (and lunar month names, lots of which are
actually zodiacal signs) in Hebrew are Babylonian and came into the culture
a few centuries before the Hasmoneans, the main Greek influence on Judaism,
were even a twinkle in their dad's eye.

Just sayin'.

Harry Roth
--
The Alchemist's Garden
http://herbalwitchcraft.com/blog/

When you don't die, will you come to the realization that he's nothing buy hot
air?  Or will you still fear him and fall for his next bogus claim?

LVX
Aaron


--- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "Kali" <shiva201061@...> wrote:
>
> my predator claims i've broken a vow for putting my issue on the forum and
that he has to kill me and has started immediately. i dont believe i have broken
a vow, and i think he is being unreasonable.i simply said  what is happening to
me, black attacks and interference and because of my protection issue bornless
is something i would like to do
>
> In fact rather than killing me now i think it would be better if he changed to
white so i dont have such a big issue any more and so i have a chance to do the
ritual.
>
> KD
> --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "kheph777" <kheph777@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Tyler Brown <tyler8779@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I looked at the Bornless Ritual translations...
> > [...]
> > > And what would you use it for?
> >
> > I just realized that this last question was never answered...
> >
> > The Bornless Rite was a preface to an exorcism.  Contrary to popular belief,
it was NOT an exorcism in and of itself.  It is simply an invocation of the
Highest Divine Force (comprehensible to man) before an exorcism is attempted.
> >
> > It can still be used for its original purpose.  It can also be used anytime
pure Divine Brilliance must be invoked.
> >
> > The Golden Dawn adapted it for invocation of the Holy Guardian Angel. 
Though many in the GD erroneously believe that Abramelin's HGA is the Higher
Self, I have found the Bornless Rite useful even with the more traditional view
of the HGA as an objective entity.  The Guardian Angel is very closely related
to the Logos/Christos concept, so the Bornless Rite is relevant to it.
> >
> > On the other hand, I should point out that the Bornless is not a safe and
friendly Rite that should be performed just for the fun of it, or as a standard
ritual opening, etc.  Other cultures that deal with "Headless" deities consider
their Rites to be extremely dangerous.  (In Santeria, invocations of Olokun- the
Headless One- are often thought to lead to the death of the Priest/ess that
invokes Her.)
> >
> > While I do not think the Bornless Rite will result in death, I still think
it wise to approach the Rite with respect and caution, using it only for the
highest purposes.
> >
> > LVX
> > Aaron
> >
>

KD,

The best way to make a curse work is to tell a gullible victim that they have
been cursed.  From there, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy.  This is what has
happened to you.

This is not to say that your attacker isn't working some kind of negative magick
against you.  He *might* even know what he is doing.  But what is plainly
obvious from your two posts here is that this person is going out of his way to
cyber-stalk you and intimidate you when you try to ask others for help.

The good news is that such a person is not likely working any real magick
against you, and if he is working such magick, then he is likely not very good
at it.  YOU are providing him with what he needs.

Now, if you want us to cover the subject of protection magick, we can do that. 
I would NOT suggest the Bornless Rite.  On one hand, I would not suggest a
beginner ever play around with that ceremony.  And for another, it's not a
protection ritual.  If anything, you would perform the Bornless before
continuing on to the protection magick.

However, we can talk about protection spells forever- but if you continue to
insist on running like a scared child from some wanna-be cyber-stalker who
claims to be a Big Scary Black Magician(tm)- then there is nothing anyone can do
for you.

LVX
Aaron

--- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "Kali" <shiva201061@...> wrote:
>
> hi. i've been under black magic attack 24 hours a day for about twelve days
now and have great difficulty with protection. this is a continuation of ongoing
high level interference and it has been suggested that i should attempt this
ritual even though i am not officially up to its grade level. Or maybe i am, but
haven't done the ceremony yet. i am wondering if its possible to get a copy of
the ritual from somewhere
>
> KD
>
> --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "kheph777" <kheph777@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Tyler Brown <tyler8779@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I looked at the Bornless Ritual translations...
> > [...]
> > > And what would you use it for?
> >
> > I just realized that this last question was never answered...
> >
> > The Bornless Rite was a preface to an exorcism.  Contrary to popular belief,
it was NOT an exorcism in and of itself.  It is simply an invocation of the
Highest Divine Force (comprehensible to man) before an exorcism is attempted.
> >
> > It can still be used for its original purpose.  It can also be used anytime
pure Divine Brilliance must be invoked.
> >
> > The Golden Dawn adapted it for invocation of the Holy Guardian Angel. 
Though many in the GD erroneously believe that Abramelin's HGA is the Higher
Self, I have found the Bornless Rite useful even with the more traditional view
of the HGA as an objective entity.  The Guardian Angel is very closely related
to the Logos/Christos concept, so the Bornless Rite is relevant to it.
> >
> > On the other hand, I should point out that the Bornless is not a safe and
friendly Rite that should be performed just for the fun of it, or as a standard
ritual opening, etc.  Other cultures that deal with "Headless" deities consider
their Rites to be extremely dangerous.  (In Santeria, invocations of Olokun- the
Headless One- are often thought to lead to the death of the Priest/ess that
invokes Her.)
> >
> > While I do not think the Bornless Rite will result in death, I still think
it wise to approach the Rite with respect and caution, using it only for the
highest purposes.
> >
> > LVX
> > Aaron
> >
>

my predator claims i've broken a vow for putting my issue on the forum and that
he has to kill me and has started immediately. i dont believe i have broken a
vow, and i think he is being unreasonable.i simply said  what is happening to
me, black attacks and interference and because of my protection issue bornless
is something i would like to do

In fact rather than killing me now i think it would be better if he changed to
white so i dont have such a big issue any more and so i have a chance to do the
ritual.

KD
--- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "kheph777" <kheph777@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Tyler Brown <tyler8779@> wrote:
> >
> > I looked at the Bornless Ritual translations...
> [...]
> > And what would you use it for?
>
> I just realized that this last question was never answered...
>
> The Bornless Rite was a preface to an exorcism.  Contrary to popular belief,
it was NOT an exorcism in and of itself.  It is simply an invocation of the
Highest Divine Force (comprehensible to man) before an exorcism is attempted.
>
> It can still be used for its original purpose.  It can also be used anytime
pure Divine Brilliance must be invoked.
>
> The Golden Dawn adapted it for invocation of the Holy Guardian Angel.  Though
many in the GD erroneously believe that Abramelin's HGA is the Higher Self, I
have found the Bornless Rite useful even with the more traditional view of the
HGA as an objective entity.  The Guardian Angel is very closely related to the
Logos/Christos concept, so the Bornless Rite is relevant to it.
>
> On the other hand, I should point out that the Bornless is not a safe and
friendly Rite that should be performed just for the fun of it, or as a standard
ritual opening, etc.  Other cultures that deal with "Headless" deities consider
their Rites to be extremely dangerous.  (In Santeria, invocations of Olokun- the
Headless One- are often thought to lead to the death of the Priest/ess that
invokes Her.)
>
> While I do not think the Bornless Rite will result in death, I still think it
wise to approach the Rite with respect and caution, using it only for the
highest purposes.
>
> LVX
> Aaron
>

hi. i've been under black magic attack 24 hours a day for about twelve days now
and have great difficulty with protection. this is a continuation of ongoing
high level interference and it has been suggested that i should attempt this
ritual even though i am not officially up to its grade level. Or maybe i am, but
haven't done the ceremony yet. i am wondering if its possible to get a copy of
the ritual from somewhere

KD

--- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "kheph777" <kheph777@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Tyler Brown <tyler8779@> wrote:
> >
> > I looked at the Bornless Ritual translations...
> [...]
> > And what would you use it for?
>
> I just realized that this last question was never answered...
>
> The Bornless Rite was a preface to an exorcism.  Contrary to popular belief,
it was NOT an exorcism in and of itself.  It is simply an invocation of the
Highest Divine Force (comprehensible to man) before an exorcism is attempted.
>
> It can still be used for its original purpose.  It can also be used anytime
pure Divine Brilliance must be invoked.
>
> The Golden Dawn adapted it for invocation of the Holy Guardian Angel.  Though
many in the GD erroneously believe that Abramelin's HGA is the Higher Self, I
have found the Bornless Rite useful even with the more traditional view of the
HGA as an objective entity.  The Guardian Angel is very closely related to the
Logos/Christos concept, so the Bornless Rite is relevant to it.
>
> On the other hand, I should point out that the Bornless is not a safe and
friendly Rite that should be performed just for the fun of it, or as a standard
ritual opening, etc.  Other cultures that deal with "Headless" deities consider
their Rites to be extremely dangerous.  (In Santeria, invocations of Olokun- the
Headless One- are often thought to lead to the death of the Priest/ess that
invokes Her.)
>
> While I do not think the Bornless Rite will result in death, I still think it
wise to approach the Rite with respect and caution, using it only for the
highest purposes.
>
> LVX
> Aaron
>

There are actually several versions of the Ring of Solomon found throughout
western occultism.

If one constructed such a Ring based on Jewish Midrashim, it would likely be a
golden ring with a square bezel.  The bezel would depict a Pentagram (the
original Star of David) and four stones to represent the four quarters of the
world (the four Archangels supposedly brought these stones to Solomon). 
Personally, I would also suggest a diamond in the center - to represent the
Shamir.

Meanwhile, there is a Ring of Solomon found in the Goetia - which is intended to
protect the exorcist from the "flames and stinking fumes" of the spirits.  It
can be gold or silver, and has a round bezel with three Divine Names inscribed
upon it.

There is also a Ring of Solomon in Dee's angelic journals.  It is also gold,
with a square bezel, and has an odd figure and letters on it that have yet to be
satisfactorily deciphered.  The Archangel Michael revealed the ring to Dee, and
told him that without the Ring he (Dee) was to "do nothing."

I'm sure others will post yet more examples.  :)

LVX
Aaron


--- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "Kliamaks" <stjudge55@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> I read THE TESTAMENT OF SOLOMON and i was marvel at SOLOMON'S ring of power.
>
> *I love to get The same RING OF POWER OF SOLOMON.
>
> How should i go about it?
>
> OLAYE GEORGE
>

Thelema All,

   the Headless One looks to be as controversial as ever!

There are several layers involved in the ritual, even where it possible to
disregard the GD/AC spin on it (bear in mind they had only a fraction of the
papyri available to them, and things have moved on considerably in that area
since).

I view very negatively the interpretation 'Bornless' promulgated by Mathers and
Crowley on the specious grounds that Head can mean 'beginning' in Hebrew. Even
where this so, the context of the ritual has much more to do with Greco-Egyptian
forms; here, as so often, interpreting everything via 'Qabalah' is misleading
rather than enlightening. Of course from a historiographical point of view their
error is still relevant to an understanding of their respective systems ('some
errors are traditional').Crowley's 'translation' is also coherent enough in his
terms, but it is well to examine the ritual in context.

Comparing the ritual with others in the papyri it becomes apparent that many of
the phrases and some of the names employed are 'stock' terms that can be found
in many invocations of Typhon-Set throughout the genre. Here and in other
examples Typhon-Set is syncretised with the local interpretation of the Jewish
God, as is obvious enough from the opening which can be recognised as an account
of the Seven Days of Creation.

Typhon-Set has been compared to 'Satan', but it would be unwise to push this too
far as quite opposite views prevailed in different periods and among different
people. At one extreme, in a much earlier period, we have the alleged syncretism
of the hated Hyksos god Sutekh (supposed, probably wrongly, to be a form of Set)
with the Jewish God.

Closer to the times of the papyri however quite dissimilar views were current.
An invocation by Martianus Capellus (AD 490) includes Typhon among the forms of
a Universal solar deity (compare Abraxas)along with Apollo & Helios, Serapis,
Osiris, Mithra, Dis, Attis, Ammon & Adonis, and climactically - via a numerical
cipher - with Dionysus. This is a very similar context to Typhon's starring role
in the Headless One. Incidentally depictions of God riding in a chariot in the
midst of the Zodiac in ancient synagogue mosaics have much to do with
Hellenistic influences of this kind.

ALWays

Jake





--- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, "kheph777" <kheph777@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Tyler Brown <tyler8779@> wrote:
> >
> > I looked at the Bornless Ritual translations...
> [...]
> > And what would you use it for?
>
> I just realized that this last question was never answered...
>
> The Bornless Rite was a preface to an exorcism.  Contrary to popular belief,
it was NOT an exorcism in and of itself.  It is simply an invocation of the
Highest Divine Force (comprehensible to man) before an exorcism is attempted.
>
> It can still be used for its original purpose.  It can also be used anytime
pure Divine Brilliance must be invoked.
>
> The Golden Dawn adapted it for invocation of the Holy Guardian Angel.  Though
many in the GD erroneously believe that Abramelin's HGA is the Higher Self, I
have found the Bornless Rite useful even with the more traditional view of the
HGA as an objective entity.  The Guardian Angel is very closely related to the
Logos/Christos concept, so the Bornless Rite is relevant to it.
>
> On the other hand, I should point out that the Bornless is not a safe and
friendly Rite that should be performed just for the fun of it, or as a standard
ritual opening, etc.  Other cultures that deal with "Headless" deities consider
their Rites to be extremely dangerous.  (In Santeria, invocations of Olokun- the
Headless One- are often thought to lead to the death of the Priest/ess that
invokes Her.)
>
> While I do not think the Bornless Rite will result in death, I still think it
wise to approach the Rite with respect and caution, using it only for the
highest purposes.
>
> LVX
> Aaron
>

--- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Tyler Brown <tyler8779@...> wrote:
>
> I looked at the Bornless Ritual translations...
[...]
> And what would you use it for?

I just realized that this last question was never answered...

The Bornless Rite was a preface to an exorcism.  Contrary to popular belief, it
was NOT an exorcism in and of itself.  It is simply an invocation of the Highest
Divine Force (comprehensible to man) before an exorcism is attempted.

It can still be used for its original purpose.  It can also be used anytime pure
Divine Brilliance must be invoked.

The Golden Dawn adapted it for invocation of the Holy Guardian Angel.  Though
many in the GD erroneously believe that Abramelin's HGA is the Higher Self, I
have found the Bornless Rite useful even with the more traditional view of the
HGA as an objective entity.  The Guardian Angel is very closely related to the
Logos/Christos concept, so the Bornless Rite is relevant to it.

On the other hand, I should point out that the Bornless is not a safe and
friendly Rite that should be performed just for the fun of it, or as a standard
ritual opening, etc.  Other cultures that deal with "Headless" deities consider
their Rites to be extremely dangerous.  (In Santeria, invocations of Olokun- the
Headless One- are often thought to lead to the death of the Priest/ess that
invokes Her.)

While I do not think the Bornless Rite will result in death, I still think it
wise to approach the Rite with respect and caution, using it only for the
highest purposes.

LVX
Aaron

The HGA is roughly akin to the Greek concept of the Agathos Daimon, who was
depicted as a young man but also as a winged serpent--AKA a dragon.

Why people think dragons are somehow linked to Satanism, I don't know. Are
you new to Western occultism?



-sm

On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 4:04 AM, Tyler Brown <tyler8779@...> wrote:

> I looked at the Bornless Ritual translations, and it theres a lot of Satan
> my Lord this, and I am wrapped with the Dragon that.
> But that was only in the Crowley translation, in the other translations,
> with slightly changed words, it only mentioned satan once.
>
> What are your perspectives on the Bornless Ritual. Do you see it as
> Satanic?
>
> And what would you use it for?
>
> Thanks,
> Tyler
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> LUX LUCIS PERDUCO UMBRA
>
> I am the Light that Leads through the shadows
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> "Secrets of the Magickal Grimoires" is now available!  Let me know what you
> think.
> http://kheph777.tripod.com/indexsecrets.htmlYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


--
“Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one.” Marcus
Aurelius
~
http://scarletmagdalen.livejournal.com
~
"For I am the first and the last.
I am the honored one and the scorned one.
I am the whore and the holy one.
I am the wife and the virgin." - The Thunder, Perfect Mind
~
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Great_Work
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/spirit_summoning


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi

I read THE TESTAMENT OF SOLOMON and i was marvel at SOLOMON'S ring of power.

*I love to get The same RING OF POWER OF SOLOMON.

How should i go about it?

OLAYE GEORGE

hi there the  Bornless has nothing to to with bloody Satania Ritual.
 
Regards
Fr.S.T.T.L

--- On Sun, 3/1/10, kheph777 <kheph777@...> wrote:


From: kheph777 <kheph777@...>
Subject: [Solomonic] Re: Is the Bornless One Ritual Satanic?
To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
Received: Sunday, 3 January, 2010, 4:13 AM


 




--- In solomonic@yahoogrou ps.com, Lori Nagel <jastiv@...> wrote:
>
> I don't know what the ritual is or was. Honestly, I do not care all that much.
[...]
>I tried it both ways (translated and not), but ended up using the Crowley
translation most of the time.
>

I know that it is late, and I may be missing something. But it seems for all the
world that you have posted that you do not know what the Bornless Rite is or
was, and do not care - yet you have performed the Rite in at least two different
forms. That can't be correct, can it?

LVX
Aaron









      
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In solomonic@yahoogroups.com, Lori Nagel <jastiv@...> wrote:
>
> I don't know what the ritual is or was. Honestly, I do not care all that much.
[...]
>I tried it both ways (translated and not), but ended up using the Crowley
translation most of the time.
>

I know that it is late, and I may be missing something.  But it seems for all
the world that you have posted that you do not know what the Bornless Rite is or
was, and do not care - yet you have performed the Rite in at least two different
forms.  That can't be correct, can it?

LVX
Aaron

I don't know what the ritual is or was. Honestly, I do not care all that much. 
I am a do  what works kind of person.  I am far more interested in practice than
academic theory. I started out working with the Star Ruby, then I realized I did
not just need to banish, I needed to get in contact with my true self, my HGA or
whatever, because my life had gotten very far out of aligment with that.

Prior to begining to work with it, I started down the Satanist path.  I had an
experience in church where I prayed against the current and I felt that  I was
in contact with something. As a result of reading a lot of occult books, I found
that Thelema was the philosophy that resonated most with me. I tried it both
ways (translated and not), but ended up using the Crowley translation most of
the time.  Is it Satanic? Well, first one would need to define Satanism,
something  that is  not an easy feat to begin with, as I found out early on in
my research into Satanism. Satan literally means adversary, but taken in an
individual context, it could be anything with out more descripton placed on it.

_______________________________
From: kheph777 <kheph777@...>
To: solomonic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 9:11:58 AM
Subject: [Solomonic] Re: Is the Bornless One Ritual Satanic?



Have you actually read the translation of the original?  See it in "The Greek
Magical Papyri in Translation" , ed. by Betz, H. D.  You aren't really getting
any insight into the original spell by looking at later Occultists' recensions
of the material.

Within the context of the original, the Bornless One seems to be one and the
same with the Gnostic Logos/Christos.  The Logos was not born, but emerged
whole-cloth from the Parent of the Entirety (Ancient of Days, God), and
immediately brought balance to the Pleroma.  It then became "God" from our
standpoint here on Earth.

In the Bornless Rite, this is the being called upon before attempting an
exorcism.  Satan is not mentioned anywhere in the text.

LVX
Aaron

--- In solomonic@yahoogrou ps.com, Tyler Brown <tyler8779@. ..> wrote:
>
> I looked at the Bornless Ritual translations, and it theres a lot of Satan
> my Lord this, and I am wrapped with the Dragon that.
> But that was only in the Crowley translation, in the other translations,
> with slightly changed words, it only mentioned satan once.
>
> What are your perspectives on the Bornless Ritual. Do you see it as Satanic?
>
> And what would you use it for?
>
> Thanks,
> Tyler
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> LUX LUCIS PERDUCO UMBRA
>
> I am the Light that Leads through the shadows
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>