馬市長欠健保費　馬政府編預算還錢
TVBS 更新日期:"2009/09/03 12:53" 楊鎮全

台北市政府因為積欠中央超過2百億的健保費，好幾筆台北市的土地遭到查封，問題一拖將�\
�7年，中央為了徹底解決，決定出手，明年度編列24億的預算，要補助台北市還錢；行政院\
的做法引發綠營抨擊，說馬市長欠錢，竟然是由馬總統編預算解決，不過行政院強調，補助\
地方政府還錢，是要用制度面來解決問題。

為了健保費，7年前的台北市長馬英九，曾經這樣公開槓衛生署。時任台北市長馬英九（200\
2.1.11）：「我們不是衝著衛生署或中央健保局，我再強調，不是去製造中央和地方的對抗\
，我在這裡不是要和誰對抗。」

台北市和中央政府的戰爭，從民進黨執政，延燒到國民黨奪回政權，馬英九也從台北市長變\
成總統，現在中央政府卻打算編列預算，幫台北市歸還一半的欠款，光是明年就補助至少24\
億。

國民黨立委李鴻鈞：「你現在又要從中央補助給地方，然後又是百姓買單嘛，是百姓買單，\
不是馬總統買單。」

民進黨立委高志鵬：「揮霍成性的敗家子，一旦因為繼承祖產，就可以來清償債務，這實在\
是很不可取的做法。」

台北市欠中央上百億的健保費，打了好久的行政訴訟最後也敗訴，就連台北車站前的土地都\
遭到法院查封，行政院強調，中央的做法是要解決問題。新聞局長蘇俊賓：「並不是馬市長\
任期的台北市政府，才有這樣的問題，中央是積極的跟北高兩市，協調一個可以共同解決的\
方法。」

行政院強調，補助不是只針對台北市，而是各縣市有欠款的，中央希望統一解決，只是健保\
連年虧損的徵結不解，補助能解決的也只是眼前的問題而已。

Inability to cope with government financing started all the way from Ma's
mayoral days when he owed the central government over 20 billion NTD and failed
to satisfy the debt obligation. At the end, the court even have to seize the
city real estate. This is ridiculous, were the Taiwanese voters aware of this
when they voted for Ma? And now as mayor of Taipei, he is not asking the new
mayor Hao to take care of it, he himself is using power as president to take
care of the debt incurred back in his Taipei mayor days?? How is such behavior
acceptable? The government talked about this is not just for Taipei but for all
other regions in red as well, how is this relevant??
First, if the green towns all post positive balance sheet, then they basically
get no reward for teir good effort, how is that fair?? Second, if the bad
magistrates who got their cities in debt can be bailed out like this, then
shouldnt they at least step down to take the responsibility? I dont see any
government disciplinary actions at all! And finally, local governments are
financed by local sales taxes nd real propety taxes, central government is
financed by national income and other state owned enterprises, why do we all
have to chip in for the incompetency of mayors and magistrates of other towns??

拿扁450萬還罵扁? 施明德：是你家錢嗎?不要臉!
2009年07月29日 14:10中國新聞網


施明德痛批陳水扁，把募款來的錢都當自家的錢，很不要臉。圖片來源:台灣「今日新聞」

中新網7月29日電據台灣「今日新聞」報導，陳水扁28天在言詞辯論庭上，痛批施明德拿了�\
L450萬還要罵他貪，不過施明德29日出面重炮反擊，說錢都是由助理處理，而且每筆都有清\
楚的用途，他痛批陳水扁當黨主席，為黨員募款本來就是義務，但扁家全把募款來的錢都當\
自家的錢，很不要臉。

施明德說:「不要臉到這種程度，所以我看他的家人都這樣，『誰沒有拿我爸爸的錢』，是�\
A家的錢嗎？」

痛罵陳水扁一家，施明德火氣很大，因為陳水扁又扯到他拿了扁家的450萬，施明德一一反�\
憿C

施明德說:「我開出支票，結果他也不敢說是他的，郭文彬也知道，陳水扁也知道，說如果�\
O他(扁)捐的，我一定拒收。」

錢都是助理郭文彬拿的，一筆一筆算得很清楚，對於陳水扁自誇對「民主」貢獻，施明德相\
當不屑。施明德:「真正有貢獻的人，都不會在這裡自己炫耀啦，心甘情願啦，你對價關心�\
麭o種程度，你還好意思講。」

施明德一臉不耐煩，對陳水扁的烏賊戰術、東拉西扯，施明德只好見招拆招。

It is interesting how Shi Ming De now is criticizing Abian for taking credit of
his enormous donation to Shi. Shi Ming De said that Chen was SUPPOSED to raise
money for the party members but Chen treated the funds raised as his own money.
However, according to the existing laws, political contributions should be
treated as reportable taxable personal assets, so I do not see why Shi is so mad
since the political contribution received by Chen were for Chen. Why id Shi
think that it was Chen's obligation to give Shi money if Shi was not good enough
to raise on his own? It is funny that he shifted the blame to his assistant,
shouldnt his assistant know better not to accept from Chen if they knew Shi
would not accept? Does Shi think Taiwanese are dumb? How transparent Shi would
like to make his expenditure be is really his business, and Chen as a head of
DPP and head of state definitely should have a certain secrecy in the way he
distributes his wealth and resources, how is that wrong?


--- In taiwanprideinternational@yahoogroups.com, mafia_godfather <no_reply@...>
wrote:
>
>
> 拿扁450萬還罵扁? 施明德：是你家錢嗎?不要臉!
> 2009年07月29日 14:10中國新聞網
>
>
>
施明德痛批陳水扁，把募款來的錢都當自家的錢，很不要臉。圖片來源:台灣「今日新聞」
>
>
中新網7月29日電據台灣「今日新聞」報導，陳水扁28天在言詞辯論庭上，痛批施明德拿了�\
L450萬還要罵他貪，不過施明德29日出面重炮反擊，說錢都是由助理處理，而且每筆都有清\
楚的用途，他痛批陳水扁當黨主席，為黨員募款本來就是義務，但扁家全把募款來的錢都當\
自家的錢，很不要臉。
>
>
施明德說:「不要臉到這種程度，所以我看他的家人都這樣，『誰沒有拿我爸爸的錢』，是�\
A家的錢嗎？」
>
>
痛罵陳水扁一家，施明德火氣很大，因為陳水扁又扯到他拿了扁家的450萬，施明德一一反�\
憿C
>
>
施明德說:「我開出支票，結果他也不敢說是他的，郭文彬也知道，陳水扁也知道，說如果�\
O他(扁)捐的，我一定拒收。」
>
>
錢都是助理郭文彬拿的，一筆一筆算得很清楚，對於陳水扁自誇對「民主」貢獻，施明德相\
當不屑。施明德:「真正有貢獻的人，都不會在這裡自己炫耀啦，心甘情願啦，你對價關心�\
麭o種程度，你還好意思講。」
>
> 施明德一臉不耐煩，對陳水扁的烏賊戰術、東拉西扯，施明德只好見招拆招。
>

I still can`t believe it. Dirty politics by the Chinese annnexationists.

Tina

貓纜掩弊 北市府疑爆偽造文書
自由 更新日期:"2009/09/14 04:09"

〔記者陳曉宜、曾韋禎、邱紹雯／台北報導〕繼馬市長任內「政績」｜貓纜、內湖捷運、新\
生高、大巨蛋等工程、招標案疑似弊端連環爆後，現又傳出北市府疑似偽造文書掩�\貓纜弊\
端事件。

北市府去年聲稱，貓纜所有塔柱基樁都是依照公共工程委員會「第02476章井基施工規範」�\
I工、監造，但工程會日前證實，該委員會從來都沒有這一章規範。

市府稱依工程會規範施工 遭工程會戳破

民進黨立委蔡煌瑯痛批，八八水災讓人民看清馬英九的無能，其市長任內的四大爛攤，更證\
明馬當年決策錯誤、欺騙人民，現在的馬總統也無法再給人民期待；而郝市府根本是為包庇\
馬英九不斷說謊、圓謊，否則為何要在事發後偽造文書掩飾疏失，背後究竟掩藏多少弊端令\
人質疑。

T16
塔柱坍塌後，貓纜各基樁的施工過程即受專業界強烈質疑，其中監造與施工單位是否在施工\
過程依照井基施工規範施作，成為檢驗依據。但奇怪的是，記者調�\北市府歷次公文仔細比\
對發現，去年十月二十二日北市府提供市議員李文英貓纜合約內容，包括台北市工程施工規\
範、補充施工說明，都沒有「井式基礎施工規範」這一章。

先無後有 冒出第02476章井基施工規範

李文英表示，她繼續行文市府要求提供T16塔柱井基施工規範，新工處去年十一月二十日回�\
憛u並無研究室所需之井基規範」；十一月二十八日召開協調會，新工處也一再於會議中明�\
扔L此規範，但監造單位台灣世曦公司卻說有，但也拿不出來，當天新工處人員在辦公室找�\
麇艉W十一點多都找不到。

李文英說，到了十二月，市府突然行文台北市議會，送來一份「第02476章井基施工規範」�\
A並在十二月十五日的文中載明「監造單位於井基施工過程，係參考公共工程委員會第02476\
章井式基礎等相關規範，據以執行監造業務」。

市府稱是補充協議小疏漏 立委痛斥說謊

但蔡煌瑯日前向工程會調�\此規範，工程會回文卻稱「查本會公共工程施工綱要規範並無第\
02476章井式基礎乙章」。

對此新工處科長陳世杰在接受記者查證時表示，此為統包工程，所以簽約時無此規範，等到\
施工時，才又做補充協議。記者詢問，既有補充協議，為何先前議員查詢時均說沒有，陳表\
示，「是當時的小疏漏」。記者再問，工程會其實並無此規範，陳才坦承，「議員質詢後上\
網查，也確實沒查到」。新工處長吳俊賢狡辯說，當時網路查不到是因資料已撤下，彙編成\
冊，實際上確實有。

蔡煌瑯痛批市府根本在說謊，工程會說得很清楚，井基施作屬特殊工程，應由各機關在簽訂\
契約時個別訂之，所以工程會從過去到現在都沒訂過該規範，也沒有第02476章。

蔡煌瑯說，貓纜最主要的工程就是塔柱基樁的井基挖掘，在簽約時，竟可以沒有，等議員質\
詢一時拿不出來，就說是依照工程會的規範在做施工、監造，他質疑，所謂「補充協議」也\
是在貓纜出事後補上，目的是在掩飾監造與施工的嚴重弊端。


Ma administration came to power because people believed he was "clean" and
flawless, but that is impossible in the world of politics, because you simply
cannot get things done if everything is "clean". However, how people should
judge the politicians is whether or not the politicians did it for the interest
of the citizens. In the case of Maokong Gondola, there were obvious damages done
to public and various corruptions committed. Now I wonder how can ma
administration remain in power if he is both incompetent and corrupted?

Looks like DDP and Da Hwa Talk show is on top of the "mysterious" trip that new
premierer-to-be and now the premiere Wu took to Hong Kong just piror to taking
office.

All the accusation claims seemed to make sense, and quite clear, if you follow
the news and the talk shows.

However, what I want to talk about is the fact that the rest of the media, which
are mostly pan-blue, cannot seem to be righteousness enough to simply want the
truth of what/why he took that trip...it's SAD.

Similarly, the accusation that Ma had taken his customary daily morning swim in
the middle of the hurricane seemed to be just easily refuted by the presidential
office--EVEN SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS what a president's itiniary cannot even be
confirmed, it's just sad....

             Ming

http://tw.news.yahoo.com/article/url/d/a/090921/5/1rj42.html

立院召委選舉　藍要全拿綠爭一席
中央社 更新日期:"2009/09/21 20:14"

(中央社記者周永捷台北21日電)立法院朝野黨團今天協商第四會期各委員會召委選舉事宜，\
藍營表示，這會期尚有三大預算案及重大法案待處理，無法禮讓綠營；綠營表示，會爭取社\
環委員會1席召委。

立法院第七屆第四會期8個常設委員會召委選舉將於23日舉行，國民黨立法院黨團書記長呂�\
Ф怐磳隉A由於這會期尚有99年中央政府總預算案等三大預算案以及政府組織再造等重大法�\
蚴E待處理，議程進行有時效性及急迫性，因此，國民黨團不打算禮讓召委席次。

國民黨團方面，目前僅剩交通委員會出現3名立委爭搶兩席召委、司法及法制委員會僅1名立\
委有意出任召委，其他6個常設委員會初步都已敲定召委名單，不過具體人選須待黨團內部�\
膃X後再敲定。

民進黨團方面，民進黨團幹事長王幸男日前曾表示，不會要求國民黨黨團禮讓委員會召委席\
次，國民黨既然完全執政，就完全負責。不過，由於社會福利及衛生環境委員會有12名委員\
，民進黨有4席，因此，黨團將推派立委爭取可能的1席召委。

民進黨團總召蔡同榮在協商中建議立法院程序委員會能夠不要阻擋一竿子民進黨團提出的法\
案，能夠讓這些法案交付院會一讀後，進入委員會實質審查；呂學樟表示，為了議事和諧，\
除非是針對性或意識型態的議案，國民黨團願意盡可能讓所有提案付委審查。

立法院各委員會組織法規定，立法院各委員會置召委2人，由各委員會委員於每會期互選產�\
矷C立法院各委員會召委選舉辦法規定，各委員會召委選舉以票選行之時，以得票數較多數�\
怢怞虞篻鵅A票數相同者抽籤決定。

Election for the committee chairs of the committees of legislative yuan is
almost here. After the previous election, the Blues claimed they "kindly" gave
DPP out seat out of 18 possible spots. This time, the KMT wants them all. It is
very obvious the KMT has no respect for a normal democracy and wants to revert
to the old KMT autocracy. It is funny that the pan Blues claimed that this is
because there are various big bills need to be passed so they could not allow
the DPP to participate. Isnt this obvious that they simply regard DPP as a
distraction and all voices of opposition need to be silenced?

--- On Fri, 10/9/09, Kaito Liew <shadowfax1412@...> wrote:

From: Kaito Liew <shadowfax1412@...>
Subject: ��脩��嚗�撽祆�亥正鈭���函�瑞��撅勗祠���Wonder
Girls嚗���扳����剛歲Nobody嚗�MUST WATCH!! Malaysia ALL MALE Wonder Girls!!
To: shadowfax1412@...
Date: Friday, October 9, 2009, 7:23 PM

��脩����剔��嚗�撽祆�亥正鈭���瑞�����Wonder Girls霂����鈭�嚗�嚗�嚗�

��拙�賜��撠�憟喟�����Wonder
Girls�����剛麾Nobody銝���脫�����嚗����蝥Ｗ�函�����撽祆�亥正鈭�銝���賭犖���嚗�鈭�\
銝芸之��瑞��蝛輯絲��扳����剛��嚗���渲絲斢���喳�����嚗����������憍�憡�憭�憪踱����\
����憟喃犖���嚗���脩瑪憭詨����啗歲韏瑚����芸楛��寧�����銝剜�����Nobody嚗����摰嫣\
誑��券����唳嗾���皜訾蛹銝鳴��雿�憌�憭扯��嚗�隞支犖銋������琿平嚗�嚗�

BREAKING VIDEO!! Malaysian MALE Wonder Girls are coming!!!


Korean girl group Wonder Girls has became super popular because of a hit single
Nobody which strike the whole world. And it came to Malaysia, 5 big boys turned
to 'pretty gals' and danced their edited version of Nobody!! It has stunned the
world too!!��


敹����嚗�霂瑞�孵�颱誑銝�餈���交����曄�����
MUST watch!! please click the hyperlink or the picture below!!

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��嗅��嚗���支�����撅勗祠���Wonder
Girls嚗���港葉隞�隞砌����Ｗ����瑕�輯澈嚗�蝚���渲正鋆�嚗�頝喳�粹�喳��憌���潦��隞�\
��湧�喳����������孵��嚗�瞍�蝏�鈭�撅�鈭���芸楛���Nobody嚗�嚗�

Besides acting as 'pretty gals', they also danced in their 'real' body with
masculine style. Combining the Yin and Yang.






隞�隞砍�啣����臭����寧�����嚗�Who are they actually?

隞�隞砍停��航��撉刻�塚��隞�銵券帕��亥正鈭���箏��銝�������璉�������皜詨之韏����頞\
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The problem is not American Beef, it's Taiwan Ma.

From time to time, I would check on the follownig site :

http://popblog.tvbs.com.tw/blog/tvbs2100/

to see what the pan-blue media is talking about.

This past week, three of the biggest news in Taiwan are:
- US beef into Taiwan
- Taiwan baseball scandal
- Premiere Wu's link to crime figure

However, if you check the link about; they spent nearly all the time on the
baseball scandal....

So pathetic.

Isn't a political talk show's purpose in life is suppose to perform check and
balance against the goverment?

Pathetic Pan-blue media.....

              Ming

Wu sorry over 'idiots' comment

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2009/12/10/2003460610

PUBLIC BACKLASH: After defending his use of the word 'idiots' in his description
of independence advocates, Wu Den-yih backed down and issued an apology
yesterday
By Shih Hsiu-chuan and Ko Shu-ling
STAFF REPORTERS
Thursday, Dec 10, 2009, Page 1

President Ma Ying-jeou, second right, accompanied by Premier Wu Den-yih, second
left, and Legislative Speaker Wang Jin-pyng, right, mails a letter to the UN
during an event to battle corruption and protect human rights in Taipei
yesterday.
PHOTO: CNA

Premier Wu Den-yih (�И媮x) yesterday apologized for controversial remarks he
made on Tuesday when he described independence advocates as ※idiots.§

In a press release Wu said he was sorry for using the term ※idiots§ to
describe people who seek independence for Taiwan and that he took it back.

His apology, however, came hours after several attempts to defend his remarks.

Wu said during an interview with the UFO Network on Tuesday: ※If you want to
talk about unification, nobody will support it. You don＊t have the capability
to unify [China] and you don＊t want to be unified by it. Declaring independence
is unnecessary because the ROC [Republic of China] is already an independent,
sovereign nation. If you want to found a country with a different national
title, it will only create division at home and stir tensions abroad. Only
irresponsible people or idiots would want to seek independence [for Taiwan].§

Approached by reporters yesterday morning, Wu at first defended himself, saying
what he meant was that the ROC has been an independent state since 1912.

Wu spoke to reporters before attending an event at the National Central Library
in Taipei to promote the Act Governing Execution of the International Covenant
on Civil and Political Rights and the International Covenant on Economic, Social
and Cultural Rights (鼠鏍鷂淉笥�鈶��齴H鼠廣摯����扦��恅趙�鈶��齴H鼠廣囥俴楊),
which goes into effect today.

He said he firmly believed in the ※three noes§ principle espoused by President
Ma Ying-jeou (醪荎嬝), referring to Ma＊s pledge not to discuss unification with
Beijing during his presidency, not to pursue or support Taiwanese independence
and not to resort to military force to resolve the Taiwan issue.

He said the administration＊s position is to maintain the ※status quo,§ adding
that all cross-strait policies must be based on the principle that Taiwan is
always the focus and public interest comes first.

Wu said he respected the freedom of those who seek independence for Taiwan and
such a right should be protected by the government.

However, as the premier of the ROC, Wu said his responsibility was to safeguard
the ROC 〞 not to seek unification or independence.

※It is my fundamental belief that protecting Taiwan means defending the
sovereignty integrity of the ROC and the safety and well-being of the 23 million
people of Taiwan,§ he said.

While some reporters still questioned whether the term ※idiot§ was too strong,
Wu said it was ※not good§ to focus only on a single word and that what he said
referred to two groups of people 〞 those who were ※irresponsible or idiots.§

※When I say you are either a boy or a girl, I don＊t necessarily say you are a
girl,§ Wu added.

The Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) panned Wu＊s comment and criticized the
government for ※burying its head in the sand§ when it comes to the nation＊s
sovereignty.

※It is unthinkable that a senior government leader could be so self-defeating.
This kind of mentality is completely unacceptable,§ DPP Legislator Tsai
Huang-liang (絆銓��) said.

Kuan Bi-ling (奪捺鍍), another DPP lawmaker, said Wu＊s statement was
discriminatory to all Taiwanese people who view themselves as citizens of a
sovereign state and called on the premier to recant his words.

DPP Spokesman Tsai Chi-chang (絆む荻) said it was an indisputable fact that the
ROC is an independent, sovereign country and if Wu has any doubt on the
country＊s status, then he should consider stepping down.

※Since he believes that people who support independence are idiots, does that
mean he is the idiotic premier leading an idiotic government?§ Tsai said.

Later yesterday, the Government Information Office issued a statement saying Wu
considered the words ※or idiots§ to be ※unnecessary words.§

The statement said Wu would like to take back ※or idiots§ because the term was
inconsistent with his ※mild§ and ※harmonious§ style.

ADDITIONAL REPORTING BY JENNY W. HSU

Also See: EDITORIAL : One third of the nation are idiots

台灣國台中市執行長周崇德為吳敦義最近的失言丟吳揆雞蛋，我在此向周老先生深深地鞠一\
個恭！雖然我不贊成暴力行為，但吳敦義身為民主體制政府的最高官員之一竟然敢說「支持\
台獨的，就是白痴」，這無不是打了�\多台灣人民一巴掌！吳敦義可以不支持台獨，他可以\
公開反對台獨，但他不能罵支持台獨的人都是白癡！




--- In taiwanprideinternational@yahoogroups.com, "ming" <mingch@...> wrote:
>
> Wu sorry over 'idiots' comment
>
> http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2009/12/10/2003460610
>
> PUBLIC BACKLASH: After defending his use of the word 'idiots' in his
description of independence advocates, Wu Den-yih backed down and issued an
apology yesterday
> By Shih Hsiu-chuan and Ko Shu-ling
> STAFF REPORTERS
> Thursday, Dec 10, 2009, Page 1
>
> President Ma Ying-jeou, second right, accompanied by Premier Wu Den-yih,
second left, and Legislative Speaker Wang Jin-pyng, right, mails a letter to the
UN during an event to battle corruption and protect human rights in Taipei
yesterday.
> PHOTO: CNA
>
> Premier Wu Den-yih (…ǶØÁx) yesterday apologized for
controversial remarks he made on Tuesday when he described independence
advocates as ¡°idiots.¡±
>
> In a press release Wu said he was sorry for using the term
¡°idiots¡± to describe people who seek independence for Taiwan and
that he took it back.
>
> His apology, however, came hours after several attempts to defend his remarks.
>
> Wu said during an interview with the UFO Network on Tuesday: ¡°If you
want to talk about unification, nobody will support it. You don¡‾t have
the capability to unify [China] and you don¡‾t want to be unified by it.
Declaring independence is unnecessary because the ROC [Republic of China] is
already an independent, sovereign nation. If you want to found a country with a
different national title, it will only create division at home and stir tensions
abroad. Only irresponsible people or idiots would want to seek independence [for
Taiwan].¡±
>
> Approached by reporters yesterday morning, Wu at first defended himself,
saying what he meant was that the ROC has been an independent state since 1912.
>
> Wu spoke to reporters before attending an event at the National Central
Library in Taipei to promote the Act Governing Execution of the International
Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the International Covenant on
Economic, Social and Cultural Rights
(¹«ÃñÅcÕþÖΙàÀû\
;‡øëH¹«¼s¼°½›úÉ&\
#231;•þÎÄ»‾™àÀû‡øëH&#\
185;«¼sÊ©Ðз‥), which goes into effect today.
>
> He said he firmly believed in the ¡°three noes¡± principle
espoused by President Ma Ying-jeou (ñRÓ¢¾Å), referring to
Ma¡‾s pledge not to discuss unification with Beijing during his
presidency, not to pursue or support Taiwanese independence and not to resort to
military force to resolve the Taiwan issue.
>
> He said the administration¡‾s position is to maintain the ¡°status
quo,¡± adding that all cross-strait policies must be based on the
principle that Taiwan is always the focus and public interest comes first.
>
> Wu said he respected the freedom of those who seek independence for Taiwan and
such a right should be protected by the government.
>
> However, as the premier of the ROC, Wu said his responsibility was to
safeguard the ROC ¡ª not to seek unification or independence.
>
> ¡°It is my fundamental belief that protecting Taiwan means defending the
sovereignty integrity of the ROC and the safety and well-being of the 23 million
people of Taiwan,¡± he said.
>
> While some reporters still questioned whether the term ¡°idiot¡±
was too strong, Wu said it was ¡°not good¡± to focus only on a
single word and that what he said referred to two groups of people ¡ª
those who were ¡°irresponsible or idiots.¡±
>
> ¡°When I say you are either a boy or a girl, I don¡‾t necessarily
say you are a girl,¡± Wu added.
>
> The Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) panned Wu¡‾s comment and
criticized the government for ¡°burying its head in the sand¡± when
it comes to the nation¡‾s sovereignty.
>
> ¡°It is unthinkable that a senior government leader could be so
self-defeating. This kind of mentality is completely unacceptable,¡± DPP
Legislator Tsai Huang-liang (²Ì»Í¬˜) said.
>
> Kuan Bi-ling (¹Ü±ÌÁá), another DPP lawmaker, said
Wu¡‾s statement was discriminatory to all Taiwanese people who view
themselves as citizens of a sovereign state and called on the premier to recant
his words.
>
> DPP Spokesman Tsai Chi-chang (²ÌÆä²ý) said it
was an indisputable fact that the ROC is an independent, sovereign country and
if Wu has any doubt on the country¡‾s status, then he should consider
stepping down.
>
> ¡°Since he believes that people who support independence are idiots,
does that mean he is the idiotic premier leading an idiotic government?¡±
Tsai said.
>
> Later yesterday, the Government Information Office issued a statement saying
Wu considered the words ¡°or idiots¡± to be ¡°unnecessary
words.¡±
>
> The statement said Wu would like to take back ¡°or idiots¡±
because the term was inconsistent with his ¡°mild¡± and
¡°harmonious¡± style.
>
> ADDITIONAL REPORTING BY JENNY W. HSU
>
> Also See: EDITORIAL : One third of the nation are idiots
>

English version:
http://www.ait.org.tw/en/news/officialtext/viewer.aspx?id=2009112501

Mandarin version:
http://www.ait.org.tw/zh/news/officialtext/viewer.aspx?id=2009112502

Above is the "official" statement from AIT (American Institute in Taiwan)
Chairman Burghardt, right after the visit by President Obama to China.

I STRONGLY encourage EVERYONE TO read this, to get a first hand view of how
America sess Taiwan.  I might add, it's quite encouraging.

Again, PLEASE READ IT, in English or Mandarin, BUT nevertheless, here are some
of the excerpts that I found to be REALLY INTERESTING...

"We understand very well in Washington that there is always a certain level of
anxiety in Taiwan whenever an American President visits Beijing and that's
completely understandable.  Those of us who have lived here, those of us who
know and love Taiwan certainly understand that.  That is exactly why the AIT
Chairman of the day almost always makes these trips right after a visit by an
American President to Beijing."
MING>>> Well, at least American are very sensative to our feeling/anxieties.


"I can affirm that U.S. private and public statements in Beijing, including the
U.S.-China Joint Statement, do not represent any change whatsoever in the U.S.
position concerning sovereignty over Taiwan.  The U.S. position concerning the
status of Taiwan is contained in the U.S.-China Joint Communiques of 1972 and
1979 in which we stated that the U.S. "acknowledges the Chinese position that
there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China."  That was the last time we
ever made a statement concerning the status of Taiwan.

For 37 years we have made clear that "acknowledges" does not mean recognize,
does not mean accept, does not mean anything else except acknowledges.  On a
number of occasions in the past 37 years there have been efforts to press the
United States to take a more specific position regarding sovereignty over
Taiwan, or to define Taiwan in political terms.  We have never agreed to do so. 
We have always urged that any issues between the two sides of the Taiwan Strait
must be resolved peacefully and with the assent of the people on both sides of
the strait."
MING>>> WOW, WOW, WOW....I have heard the first paragraph before, and have never
forgiven US for it...BUT the second paragraph IS THE KEY.... "Recognize" <>
"Accept"....etc.

But there's more.....

"Before closing I would like to clarify a few points concerning the Joint
Statement.

First, none of the three Joint Communiques, of the three U.S.-China Joint
Communiques, nor any previous joint statements with China mentioned the Taiwan
Relations Act.  There was zero possibility that China would have agreed to
include it in this statement.

Second, only one paragraph in the Joint Statement is relevant to Taiwan.  This
is the paragraph that begins, "The U.S. and China underscored the importance of
the Taiwan issue in U.S.-China relations" et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.  In
that paragraph there is a statement that "China", note unilaterally, "emphasized
that the Taiwan issue concerns China's sovereignty and territorial integrity,"
et cetera.

In this paragraph, second to the point, in this same paragraph there is a
statement that, "The United States welcomes the peaceful development of
relations across the Taiwan Strait and looks forward to efforts by both sides to
increase dialogues and interactions in economic, political and other fields and
develop more positive and stable cross-strait relations."

There has been some speculation, some over-analysis about the significance of
this sentence.  I would just note that over the years there have been numerous
exhortations by U.S. officials including myself when I was the Director here in
Taipei, urging cross-Strait negotiations, urging cross-Strait that there would
be progress in cross-Strait relations.  This statement should not be seen in any
other light except as one more of one such statement.  It should not be in any
way interpreted as putting pressure on Taiwan to negotiate.  Let me make clear
that the pace, the timing, the issues to negotiate or not negotiate is
completely up to Taiwan to decide.  The U.S. has no view on these matters."

MING>>> Note that there's confusion from press that maybe US is bowing to China
on Taiwan, or agreeing with China's stance--however, he has made it clear that
some of these views were strictly China's.  NOT US positions.!!!!!  Furthermore,
US is not pressuring or preferring Taiwan to negotiate with China as Ma or
pan-blue media is suggesting.

MORE....

"Lastly, concerning the Joint Statement.  The next paragraph following the one
we've just been talking about that talks about Taiwan, the only one that talks
about Taiwan, there is a paragraph that begins, "The two countries reiterated
that the fundamental principle of respect for each other's sovereignty and
territorial integrity is at the core of three U.S.-China Joint Communiques which
guide U.S.-China relations."

This paragraph was negotiated solely to cover issues regarding Tibet and
Xinjiang.  The negotiating record is clear that this paragraph was not intended
to concern Taiwan.  That certainly was the U.S. understanding."

MING>>> So, again, the press would have you believed that US was agreeing to
China's claim about 'sovereignty and integrity'--but in the second paragraph
it's clear that DID NOT include TAIWAN!!!!!
I LOVE USA AGAIN.....

             Ming

I have been thinking about what I/we should do during Chen Wen Lin's visit to
Taichung on 12/20/2009.....

Here're my thoughts:

-> We should not get into conflict with our police, since they're our citizens
as well, not to mention that they have better weapons than we do... :-)

-> We should not harm him physicially, since he has not yet harm us physicially
yet....

HOWEVER, his visit has greatly made some of us very un-comfortable; therefore,
we should make his visit very un-comfortable....IT'S ONLY FAIR...

So, how do we make him un-comfortable...yet, not harm him physically?

Well, slow down his travel, so he is stuck in traffic, stuck in the lobby, stuck
in everywhere he goes...

Make LOTS of noise...so he will not even get a good nights sleep...
Fire off fireworks, noise-makers...anything to make him un-comfortable....would
be ideal!!!

Here're a few other things to consider:
- GARBAGE--make lots of them, and in his path--hotel lobby ;-)
- SMELLY STUFF IN VENTILATION?  HOW? DON'T know?
- EGGS?  It's not going to kill anyone...but very messy....
- CUT OFF THE POWER?
- fireworks, noise makers, loud music....etc.

    God bless Taiwan.

    Taiwan is Taiwan, China is a piece of &%&%%%&%&

OK, now both pan-green and pan-blue politicians are angry at Su Chi for signing
the US beef import to Taiwan....

BUT can anyone tell me why is a commercial beef import deal being headed and
signed by the Secretary General, Su Chi, of the National Security Council ?????

Isn't NSC dealing with security, instead of commerce deals????

So, may be it really has to do with Ma's green card????    Ming

I just don`t know if this will be positive or negative for Taiwan. On the plus
side it could create some international breathing room and legitimacy for the
nation of Taiwan. Unfortunately, this non-combat aid could be a huge drain on
Taiwan`s already troubled finances. MG, any thoughts?


Happy New Year To All,


Tina

Ming, none of the things the AIT chief said on US policy towards Taiwan is new
actually. If we go back to the memo and meeting details between US and China on
Taiwan during the Nixon and Kissinger visits, you can see that the US has always
held that Taiwan's status is undertermined and they cannot control what develops
on Taiwan.

In my latest response to Mr. Walter Chung, who actually participated in a series
of debates with Roger CS Lin on this forum back in 2006...

"Well, US position has always been that Taiwan sovereignty status is
undetermined and its "One China Policy" is different than China's. I am sure if
US is forced to give interpretation on Taiwan's sovereignty, they will stick to
that and that they acknowledge Chinese position on Taiwan although not
recognizing. The US position still is that Taiwan is not a part of China and its
legal status undetermined. It's quite interesting if we look at the deal made by
Nixon, Kissinger and Zhou Enlai. They do not support or encourage independence,
but they will not suppress it or prevent it, either. In fact, they are letting
China know that if Taiwanese get independence on their own, so be it.

Zhou Enlai: "And the third point you mentioned was that you would not support or
allow a Taiwan independence movement, nor encourage it, either in the US or
Taiwan.
Kissinger: "Encourage. "Allow" is beyond our capability.
Zhou: "Discourage?
Nixon: Discourage.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/publications/DOC_readers/kissinger/nixzhou/14-1\
3.htm


Kissinger: "What we cannot do is to use our forces to suppress the
movement[independence] on Taiwan it it develops without our support. "

http://www.pdfdownload.org/pdf2html/pdf2html.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gwu.edu%2F\
~nsarchiv%2FNSAEBB%2FNSAEBB106%2FNZ-3.pdf&images=yes

Dr. Kissinger: We say that the United States "takes note of that position and
will support efforts to reach an equitable and peaceful resolution of the
ultimate relationship of Taiwan to the mainland." We can strengthen "takes note
of." These two sentences support each other.

PM Chou: But if you do not make clear that you will not carry out or support any
activities separating Taiwan from China, then one can have two interpretations
of this sentence -- "support efforts to reach an equitable and peaceful
resolution of the ultimate relationship of Taiwan to the mainland." This could
be interpreted as Taiwan being returned to the Motherland or separated from
China. Because if you do not say what you are opposed to, you cannot guarantee
the return of Taiwan to the Motherland.

Dr. Kissinger: We have the problem of what I told the Prime Minister. What I
have said to him is our policy on which he can rely, no matter what the
communique says. So he can rely on the fact that we will not support an
independent Taiwan. I am certain that the President will repeat this to the
Prime Minister and, of course, to the Chairman.

The second question therefore is the question of the communique, which is not so
much relevant for our policy but for public impression. Now we have attempted to
draft this in such a way -- in English these two sentences have a tendency to
support each other. But we could perhaps strengthen the second section by
instead of saying "takes note of that position", saying "does not challenge that
position."

PM Chou: That's one question of wording.

Dr. Kissinger: It makes clear that we are not opposing it.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/e13/73287.htm

PM Chou: Of course, on this we made use of one of your formulations in
acknowledging that "all Chinese on either side of the Taiwan Straits maintain
there is but one China." That's one point of view.

Secondly, we will put it this way, that is the United States will encourage the
Chinese to settle this internal question by themselves, through peaceful
negotiations. This is what you have said all along, and your side expressed a
willingness to do this.

Dr. Kissinger: The word "internal" will give us trouble at this stage.
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/e13/72503.htm



I think it is pretty clear that the US does not want Taiwan to be unified with
China and jeopardize US hegemony in Asia. The US simply wants to have everything
to be vague and keep this status quo as long as it can. But I have to say Taiwan
is not really an independent country as long as it remains to be in control by
the ROC government. It is still best to have Taiwanese to exercise self
determination and establish a native government to replace it. "

Once you have read these, you will know that the Taiwanese would understand US
position on Taiwan better if they have read these historic documents. Last thing
the US wants to see happen is to give Taiwan away to China, it is interesting
the US said they support any peaceful resolutions agree by both sides, how is
that ever going to be possible? Zhou Enlai saw that coming, but he thought US
president could make laws to let Nixon live as US president forever, but Nixon
knew all he needed to do is open up China and let future president take care of
the problems. None of the later presidents change this policy because it matters
tremedously to US interest.

--- In taiwanprideinternational@yahoogroups.com, "ming" <mingch@...> wrote:
>
>
> English version:
> http://www.ait.org.tw/en/news/officialtext/viewer.aspx?id=2009112501
>
> Mandarin version:
> http://www.ait.org.tw/zh/news/officialtext/viewer.aspx?id=2009112502
>
> Above is the "official" statement from AIT (American Institute in Taiwan)
Chairman Burghardt, right after the visit by President Obama to China.
>
> I STRONGLY encourage EVERYONE TO read this, to get a first hand view of how
America sess Taiwan.  I might add, it's quite encouraging.
>
> Again, PLEASE READ IT, in English or Mandarin, BUT nevertheless, here are some
of the excerpts that I found to be REALLY INTERESTING...
>
> "We understand very well in Washington that there is always a certain level of
anxiety in Taiwan whenever an American President visits Beijing and that's
completely understandable.  Those of us who have lived here, those of us who
know and love Taiwan certainly understand that.  That is exactly why the AIT
Chairman of the day almost always makes these trips right after a visit by an
American President to Beijing."
> MING>>> Well, at least American are very sensative to our feeling/anxieties.
>
>
> "I can affirm that U.S. private and public statements in Beijing, including
the U.S.-China Joint Statement, do not represent any change whatsoever in the
U.S. position concerning sovereignty over Taiwan.  The U.S. position concerning
the status of Taiwan is contained in the U.S.-China Joint Communiques of 1972
and 1979 in which we stated that the U.S. "acknowledges the Chinese position
that there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China."  That was the last
time we ever made a statement concerning the status of Taiwan.
>
> For 37 years we have made clear that "acknowledges" does not mean recognize,
does not mean accept, does not mean anything else except acknowledges.  On a
number of occasions in the past 37 years there have been efforts to press the
United States to take a more specific position regarding sovereignty over
Taiwan, or to define Taiwan in political terms.  We have never agreed to do so. 
We have always urged that any issues between the two sides of the Taiwan Strait
must be resolved peacefully and with the assent of the people on both sides of
the strait."
> MING>>> WOW, WOW, WOW....I have heard the first paragraph before, and have
never forgiven US for it...BUT the second paragraph IS THE KEY.... "Recognize"
<> "Accept"....etc.
>
> But there's more.....
>
> "Before closing I would like to clarify a few points concerning the Joint
Statement.
>
> First, none of the three Joint Communiques, of the three U.S.-China Joint
Communiques, nor any previous joint statements with China mentioned the Taiwan
Relations Act.  There was zero possibility that China would have agreed to
include it in this statement.
>
> Second, only one paragraph in the Joint Statement is relevant to Taiwan.  This
is the paragraph that begins, "The U.S. and China underscored the importance of
the Taiwan issue in U.S.-China relations" et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.  In
that paragraph there is a statement that "China", note unilaterally, "emphasized
that the Taiwan issue concerns China's sovereignty and territorial integrity,"
et cetera.
>
> In this paragraph, second to the point, in this same paragraph there is a
statement that, "The United States welcomes the peaceful development of
relations across the Taiwan Strait and looks forward to efforts by both sides to
increase dialogues and interactions in economic, political and other fields and
develop more positive and stable cross-strait relations."
>
> There has been some speculation, some over-analysis about the significance of
this sentence.  I would just note that over the years there have been numerous
exhortations by U.S. officials including myself when I was the Director here in
Taipei, urging cross-Strait negotiations, urging cross-Strait that there would
be progress in cross-Strait relations.  This statement should not be seen in any
other light except as one more of one such statement.  It should not be in any
way interpreted as putting pressure on Taiwan to negotiate.  Let me make clear
that the pace, the timing, the issues to negotiate or not negotiate is
completely up to Taiwan to decide.  The U.S. has no view on these matters."
>
> MING>>> Note that there's confusion from press that maybe US is bowing to
China on Taiwan, or agreeing with China's stance--however, he has made it clear
that some of these views were strictly China's.  NOT US positions.!!!!! 
Furthermore, US is not pressuring or preferring Taiwan to negotiate with China
as Ma or pan-blue media is suggesting.
>
> MORE....
>
> "Lastly, concerning the Joint Statement.  The next paragraph following the one
we've just been talking about that talks about Taiwan, the only one that talks
about Taiwan, there is a paragraph that begins, "The two countries reiterated
that the fundamental principle of respect for each other's sovereignty and
territorial integrity is at the core of three U.S.-China Joint Communiques which
guide U.S.-China relations."
>
> This paragraph was negotiated solely to cover issues regarding Tibet and
Xinjiang.  The negotiating record is clear that this paragraph was not intended
to concern Taiwan.  That certainly was the U.S. understanding."
>
> MING>>> So, again, the press would have you believed that US was agreeing to
China's claim about 'sovereignty and integrity'--but in the second paragraph
it's clear that DID NOT include TAIWAN!!!!!
> I LOVE USA AGAIN.....
>
>             Ming
>

In my opinion, if it is a combat- aid then yes. I have always supported
Taiwanese involvement in these international conflicts for very good reasons.

A. it makes Taiwanese military more experienced and any kind of information or
exprience they have over there can give our soildiers back home some good
learning values. Taiwanese soldiers in Taiwan today are like spoiled brats and
they do not have real live experience. I do not support war and not a hawk, but
I think Taiwanese need to have a sense of what real wars are like. I personally
know some Taiwanese Americans who are veterans from Iraqi war. I salute them and
appreciate all they have done for the US and the world, and I hope Taiwanese
troops can get that opportunity as well.


B. Taiwanese military involvement in these conflicts will not give us
international recognition as an independent sovereign country, because Taiwan is
not. As long as ROC government continues to occupy Taiwan and we do not
establish a native government to legally remove this government in exile, we
will never be recognized. However, military involvement does give us opportunity
to upset China and let world know that we are behaving as an independent state
and if there is any booty as result of the war, we want in.

However, non-combat aids would be just like normal foreign aids. I hope we are
sending people there to learn instead of giving away money like what we have
always done. It is not troubled Taiwanese finance I am worried about, because
the trouble isn't as bad as we thought, thanks to Chen's previous financial
reforms. What i worry more is if we dont spend these money on foreign aid, they
might just end up in pockets of some KMT politicians.



--- In taiwanprideinternational@yahoogroups.com, "tnxiao" <greatlegs57@...>
wrote:
>
> I just don`t know if this will be positive or negative for Taiwan. On the plus
side it could create some international breathing room and legitimacy for the
nation of Taiwan. Unfortunately, this non-combat aid could be a huge drain on
Taiwan`s already troubled finances. MG, any thoughts?
>
>
> Happy New Year To All,
>
>
> Tina
>

That`s interesting, I think I`ve just changed my mind because of your post.
You`re right, Taiwan has been throwing good money after bad with nothing to show
for it for far too long. While I certainly don`t want to see our young men
become casualties, the military experience could be invaluable.


--- In taiwanprideinternational@yahoogroups.com, mafia_godfather <no_reply@...>
wrote:
>
> In my opinion, if it is a combat- aid then yes. I have always supported
Taiwanese involvement in these international conflicts for very good reasons.
>
> A. it makes Taiwanese military more experienced and any kind of information or
exprience they have over there can give our soildiers back home some good
learning values. Taiwanese soldiers in Taiwan today are like spoiled brats and
they do not have real live experience. I do not support war and not a hawk, but
I think Taiwanese need to have a sense of what real wars are like. I personally
know some Taiwanese Americans who are veterans from Iraqi war. I salute them and
appreciate all they have done for the US and the world, and I hope Taiwanese
troops can get that opportunity as well.
>
>
> B. Taiwanese military involvement in these conflicts will not give us
international recognition as an independent sovereign country, because Taiwan is
not. As long as ROC government continues to occupy Taiwan and we do not
establish a native government to legally remove this government in exile, we
will never be recognized. However, military involvement does give us opportunity
to upset China and let world know that we are behaving as an independent state
and if there is any booty as result of the war, we want in.
>
> However, non-combat aids would be just like normal foreign aids. I hope we are
sending people there to learn instead of giving away money like what we have
always done. It is not troubled Taiwanese finance I am worried about, because
the trouble isn't as bad as we thought, thanks to Chen's previous financial
reforms. What i worry more is if we dont spend these money on foreign aid, they
might just end up in pockets of some KMT politicians.
>
>
>
> --- In taiwanprideinternational@yahoogroups.com, "tnxiao" <greatlegs57@>
wrote:
> >
> > I just don`t know if this will be positive or negative for Taiwan. On the
plus side it could create some international breathing room and legitimacy for
the nation of Taiwan. Unfortunately, this non-combat aid could be a huge drain
on Taiwan`s already troubled finances. MG, any thoughts?
> >
> >
> > Happy New Year To All,
> >
> >
> > Tina
> >
>

When I first saw the headline, I thought--my god, Ma is not recognizing
Taiwan/ROC as a Nation--HOWEVER, as the article indicated, it's actually NOT
reconizing PRC as a Nation....LOL....Ming

-----------------
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2010/02/19/2003466175

Ma＊s ＆two nations＊ comment a mistake: PO

INFALLIBLE: President Ma＊s rhetorical ＆faux pas＊ was attributed to an error
by a rookie employee at the Presidential Office and was immediately
＆corrected＊ on its Web site
By Mo Yan-chih
STAFF REPORTER
Friday, Feb 19, 2010, Page 1
President Ma Ying-jeou (堜褙朐) would not address the two sides of Taiwan Strait
as ※two nations§ in describing cross-strait relations, the Presidential Office
said yesterday.

※According to the Constitution, the Republic of China [ROC] is a sovereign
nation, and mainland China is an ＆area＊ under the structure of the ROC
Constitution,§ 〝Presidential Office Spokesman Wang Yu-chi (魦濊悜) said.

※We do not recognize the Chinese communist authorities＊ sovereignty. We only
hold a non-denial attitude toward its existence in the ＆Mainland area,＊§ Wang
said.

Wang made the remarks in response to a report by the Chinese-language Liberty
Times (the Taipei Times＊ sister paper) about changes made by the 〝Presidential
Office to Ma＊s wording after a meeting with US Representative James
Sensenbrenner Jr on Wednesday.

Meeting the US congressman in the Presidential Office, Ma discussed the
government＊s signing of an economic cooperation framework agreement (ECFA) with
China and called on the US Congress to supports Taiwan＊s efforts to sign a
bilateral extradition agreement with the US.

A press release the Presidential Office issued to media at about 12pm on
Wednesday quoted Ma as saying that his administration expected the signing of an
ECFA to ※institutionalize the more than NT$100 billion [US$3.1 billion] trade
volume between the two nations.§

In a press release on the Presidential Office Web site later in the day,
however, the term ※two nations§ was replaced with ※two sides.§

Wang said the phrase had been used by ※mistake§ by a new 〝employee and that
the Presidential Office made the correction 〝immediately after discovering the
mistake. The president would not make such a mistake, he said.

Wang said the term used by the government reflected the ※status quo§ across
the Taiwan Strait under the Constitution and that such a constitutional
structure was revised by former president Lee Teng-hui (軝崞��) and followed by
the Democratic Progressive Party government.

※It also reflects the political reality of the Strait. [The description] shows
no signs of weakness. Instead, it highlights the sovereignty of the ROC,§ Wang
said.

http://zen.sandiego.edu:8080/Jerome/1266566665/index_html

Taiwan's Ma Ying-jeou Continues to Invite Voters to Live in his Fantasy World
Friday February 19, by Jerome F. Keating Ph.D.

Caught in another faux pas, Taiwan's sometime-president, Ma Ying-jeou, (a.k.a.
Ma the Incompetent) crawfished backwards from his recent statement that China
and Taiwan were two different nations. In an effort to save face, Ma has chosen
instead to continue to invite Taiwan and the world to join him in his
make-believe, fantasy world. Key to that world is the out-dated and out-moded
1947 Constitution of the Republic of China (ROC). In Ma's fantasy world, the ROC
is the sovereign nation of China and the People's Republic of China (PRC) is a
non-entity. According to Ma, he does not recognize the sovereignty of the PRC
nor their rulers' rightful existence. Skip the fact that they do hold the United
Nation's seat for China. All that Ma will concede is a "non-denial" of their
existence in that nebulous "area" on the other side of the Taiwan Strait.

Nevertheless, if Ma really and sincerely believes in this fantasy world,
questions arise. Why has he refused to let the ROC flag be shown in sports games
in Taiwan when China was there displaying its flag? Why did he have the ROC flag
hidden when Chen Yunlin visited from China? Why is he feverishly working to get
an ECFA agreement with this area that has only a "non-denial" of its existence?
Why has Ma appeared as Mr. Ma and not President Ma when China's representatives
meet him? That is a lot of flip-flopping from someone in Ma's fantasy world.
Perhaps we should ask, how many fantasy worlds does Ma live in?

This is the problem that Taiwanese voters must face up to in the upcoming and
all future elections. Not only do they have an incompetent president, but they
have one who insists on living in a fantasy world. Is this the leadership they
want? They bought a used-car from this delusional salesman once, when he
promised them a 6 per cent national growth two years ago and it immediately
began dropping to the 2nd percentile. Do they want to do it again?

Saw "Formosa Betrayed" this past weekend.

http://www.formosathemovie.com/index.html

2-26-10 - Opening in NY, LA, Boston, Bay Area

STORY:
Inspired by actual events, FORMOSA BETRAYED is the story of FBI Agent Jake
Kelly's (James Van Der Beek) investigation of the brutal murder of a
Taiwanese-American professor on U.S. soil. With the help of his partner Tom
Braxton (John Heard) and a sharp Chicago police detective (Leslie Hope), Agent
Kelly discovers that the murderers have fled to Taiwan.....

"Inspired by actual events", however, the "story" is a made-up story, and it's a
bit confusing at first, as it conflicts with the actual "history".
The film story is about a US-Taiwanese professor, who's writing a book against
Taiwan government, murdered in US.

In actual history, The US-Taiwanese professor was murdered in Taiwan, while
Chiang-Nan, was murdered in Daly City....So, it was confusing if you try to put
history with story--however, if you get past this part, then it's a relatively
entertaining/educating film....

It's an interesting film, funds were raised by Independant US-Taiwanese
investors...so we should support this film--check it out...

        Thanks, Ming

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2010/03/20/2003468502

Google to leave China April 10, state media says


, AFP, SHANGHAI
Saturday, Mar 20, 2010, Page 1
US Internet giant Google will close its business in China next month and may
announce its plans in the coming days, Chinese media reported yesterday, after
rows over censorship and hacking.

The China Business News quoted an official with an unidentified Chinese
advertising agency as saying Google would go through with its threatened
withdrawal on April 10, but that Google had yet to confirm the pull-out.

The agency is a business partner of Google, the report said.

The newspaper did not specify whether Google would close all or part of its
operations in the country. It quoted an unidentified Google staff member as
saying the company may announce on Monday the details of its exit from China and
compensation for its local staff.

Google China spokeswoman Marsha Wang declined to comment on the report, saying
only that there had been "no update" on the company's situation.

The report was the latest in a series of clues to emerge recently indicating
Google planned to leave China, which has the world's largest population of
online users, at 384 million.

Google confirmed earlier this week that it had received a letter purportedly
from a group of 27 Chinese advertising agencies calling for the US company to
open talks on compensation for possible business losses if it leaves China.

However, representatives of several of the firms subsequently said they knew
nothing of the letter and Chinese media reports have raised doubts about its
authenticity.

Wang said the company was still "reviewing" the letter.

Chinese media said on Wednesday that Google sent a notice to clients saying
google.cn could close at the end of the month.

Google has cried foul over what it said were cyberattacks aimed at its source
code and the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists.

The issue has sparked a simmering war of words between China and the
administration of US President Barack Obama, which has called on Beijing to
allow an unfettered Internet.

I`m really surprised. I thought they would cave into Beijing like most other big
companies have.

Tina

--- In taiwanprideinternational@yahoogroups.com, "ming" <mingch@...> wrote:
>
>
> http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2010/03/20/2003468502
>
> Google to leave China April 10, state media says
>
>
> , AFP, SHANGHAI
> Saturday, Mar 20, 2010, Page 1
> US Internet giant Google will close its business in China next month and may
announce its plans in the coming days, Chinese media reported yesterday, after
rows over censorship and hacking.
>
> The China Business News quoted an official with an unidentified Chinese
advertising agency as saying Google would go through with its threatened
withdrawal on April 10, but that Google had yet to confirm the pull-out.
>
> The agency is a business partner of Google, the report said.
>
> The newspaper did not specify whether Google would close all or part of its
operations in the country. It quoted an unidentified Google staff member as
saying the company may announce on Monday the details of its exit from China and
compensation for its local staff.
>
> Google China spokeswoman Marsha Wang declined to comment on the report, saying
only that there had been "no update" on the company's situation.
>
> The report was the latest in a series of clues to emerge recently indicating
Google planned to leave China, which has the world's largest population of
online users, at 384 million.
>
> Google confirmed earlier this week that it had received a letter purportedly
from a group of 27 Chinese advertising agencies calling for the US company to
open talks on compensation for possible business losses if it leaves China.
>
> However, representatives of several of the firms subsequently said they knew
nothing of the letter and Chinese media reports have raised doubts about its
authenticity.
>
> Wang said the company was still "reviewing" the letter.
>
> Chinese media said on Wednesday that Google sent a notice to clients saying
google.cn could close at the end of the month.
>
> Google has cried foul over what it said were cyberattacks aimed at its source
code and the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists.
>
> The issue has sparked a simmering war of words between China and the
administration of US President Barack Obama, which has called on Beijing to
allow an unfettered Internet.
>

China's revenue represents roughly 1-2% of Google's total revenue, apart frpom
insignigficant economic damage, Google is probably sensing the growing tension
between US and China, so they need to pick a side.



--- In taiwanprideinternational@yahoogroups.com, "tnxiao" <greatlegs57@...>
wrote:
>
> I`m really surprised. I thought they would cave into Beijing like most other
big companies have.
>
> Tina
>
> --- In taiwanprideinternational@yahoogroups.com, "ming" <mingch@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2010/03/20/2003468502
> >
> > Google to leave China April 10, state media says
> >
> >
> > , AFP, SHANGHAI
> > Saturday, Mar 20, 2010, Page 1
> > US Internet giant Google will close its business in China next month and may
announce its plans in the coming days, Chinese media reported yesterday, after
rows over censorship and hacking.
> >
> > The China Business News quoted an official with an unidentified Chinese
advertising agency as saying Google would go through with its threatened
withdrawal on April 10, but that Google had yet to confirm the pull-out.
> >
> > The agency is a business partner of Google, the report said.
> >
> > The newspaper did not specify whether Google would close all or part of its
operations in the country. It quoted an unidentified Google staff member as
saying the company may announce on Monday the details of its exit from China and
compensation for its local staff.
> >
> > Google China spokeswoman Marsha Wang declined to comment on the report,
saying only that there had been "no update" on the company's situation.
> >
> > The report was the latest in a series of clues to emerge recently indicating
Google planned to leave China, which has the world's largest population of
online users, at 384 million.
> >
> > Google confirmed earlier this week that it had received a letter purportedly
from a group of 27 Chinese advertising agencies calling for the US company to
open talks on compensation for possible business losses if it leaves China.
> >
> > However, representatives of several of the firms subsequently said they knew
nothing of the letter and Chinese media reports have raised doubts about its
authenticity.
> >
> > Wang said the company was still "reviewing" the letter.
> >
> > Chinese media said on Wednesday that Google sent a notice to clients saying
google.cn could close at the end of the month.
> >
> > Google has cried foul over what it said were cyberattacks aimed at its
source code and the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists.
> >
> > The issue has sparked a simmering war of words between China and the
administration of US President Barack Obama, which has called on Beijing to
allow an unfettered Internet.
> >
>

http://gizmodo.com/5546958/foxconns-ceo-talks-for-first-time-about-suicides-as-1\
1th-employee-jumps

Apple, Dell and HP are investigating their overseas partner Foxconn, a Chinese
component maker that has seen several employee suicides in the past year.

Labor activists have accused Foxconn of instituting sweatshop-like work
conditions for its employees, compelling nine workers to kill themselves to
escape their harsh routines. Apple, Dell and HP have announced that they are in
contact with Foxconn to examine the work conditions.

“We’re in direct contact with Foxconn senior management and we believe they
are taking this matter very seriously,” said Steve Dowling, an Apple spokesman,
in a statement to Bloomberg. “A team from Apple is independently evaluating the
steps they are taking to address these tragic events and we will continue our
ongoing inspections of the facilities where our products are made.”

Foxconn’s harsh work conditions have been especially high-profile because it is
known for producing components for the phenomenally popular iPhone, among
products for companies other than Apple. However, labor issues have been
prevalent across Asian suppliers for years. Many Asian-supply workers and
labor-rights activists have cited sweatshop-like conditions such as hourly wages
below a dollar, violations of work hours and firings without notice.

The most sensational story about Foxconn to date involved an employee committing
suicide over the loss of a prototype fourth-generation iPhone after allegedly
being bullied by the company’s security officers. The New York Times launched
an independent investigation, in which a reporter’s translator faced physical
threats from a Foxconn security officer while questioning the victim’s family.

The ninth Foxconn death occurred Tuesday with a 19-year-old’s apparent suicide
— just one week after the company’s eighth employee suicide.

To offer a first-hand account of Foxconn, reporter Liu Zhiyi of the Chinese
paper Southern Weekend went undercover as an employee at the factory. She
reported that workers were stuck in grueling, repetitive jobs and working long
hours for minimal pay.

In response to the scrutiny surrounding Foxconn, billionaire Terry Gou, founder
of Hon Hai (aka Foxconn Technology Group), this week opened a tour of the
factory to journalists.

“We expect our suppliers to employ the same high standards we do in our own
facilities,” a Dell spokesman said in a statement. “We enforce these standards
through a variety of tools, including the Electronics Industry code of conduct,
business reviews with suppliers, self-assessments and audits.”

HP has also said it is investigating “the Foxconn practices that may be
associated with these tragic events.”

Read More http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/05/foxconn-suicides/#ixzz0p4qQ3JCX
=====================================

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2010/05/27/2003473979

Foxconn opens its gates after suicides

MEDIA TOUR: Chairman Terry Gou led six busloads of journalists through the
company’s Shenzhen complex as the firm boosted efforts to curb a wave of
suicides

AP AND AFP , SHENZHEN, CHINA
Thursday, May 27, 2010, Page 1


Hon Hai Precision and Foxconn chairman Terry Gou, center, is surrounded by
journalists yesterday as he arrives for a media tour of the Foxconn plant in
Shenzen, China.

PHOTO: AFP

Foxconn Technology Group (富士康) chairman Terry Gou (郭台銘) bowed deeply
several times and apologized yesterday for a spate of suicides at a factory that
makes Apple iPods and iPhones, promising the electronics giant will try to stop
more deaths.

But the usually media-shy executive, chairman of Foxconn’s Taiwanese parent
company, Hon Hai Precision Industry Co (鴻海精密), said there was only so much
his company could do.

“We’re a company, we are not a society,” Gou said. “We have a company’s
abilities to do things but we don’t have a society’s abilities.”

Foxconn opened up its sprawling factory complex in Shenzhen to reporters
yesterday, an unprecedented move from the normally super-secretive Taiwanese
company still struggling to come to terms with the suicides of 10 young workers
this year.

The company has been a lightning rod for labor activists who say its working
conditions cause misery for its vast work force.

The tour comes after the suicide on Tuesday of Li Hai (李海), 19. He was the
latest victim of the suicide surge, jumping to his death from a building at the
world’s largest contract maker of electronics, which also counts among its
products Dell computers and Nokia phones.


The parents of Ma Xiangqian, a Foxconn employee who died on Jan. 23, display a
portrait of their son as journalists gather at the Foxconn plant in Shenzen
yesterday.

PHOTO: AFP

Police said Li killed himself after working at the plant for only 42 days,
Xinhua news agency reported.

The suicide was the ninth at Foxconn’s massive plant in Shenzhen, which employs
more than 300,000 people. Two other workers have tried to kill themselves by
jumping from buildings in Shenzhen, but they survived. Another suicide occurred
at a smaller plant in Hebei Province in January.

Gou said many of the deaths were most likely caused by a variety of factors,
including failed romances, an area difficult for the company to get involved in.

However, he said Foxconn was consulting with a large group of mental health
professionals who have been reviewing the company’s personnel records.

Gou personally led six busloads of journalists through the industrial park,
which looks much like a small city. The palm-tree lined streets had fast food
restaurants, bakeries and banks. He showed off the complex’s swimming pool and
a large mental health center, with a long row of women working telephone
hotlines.

Labor activists say the string of suicides back up their long-standing
allegations that workers toil in terrible conditions at Foxconn. They claim
shifts are long, the assembly line moves too fast and managers enforce
military-style discipline on the work force.

But Foxconn has insisted that workers are treated well and are protected by
social responsibility programs that ensure their welfare.

Foxconn is a major manufacturer for Apple, and the US company said it has talked
to Foxconn’s senior management about the suicides and believes the firm is
taking the matter seriously.

“We are saddened and upset by the recent suicides at Foxconn,” Apple spokesman
Steve Dowling said. “Apple is deeply committed to ensuring that conditions
throughout our supply chain are safe and workers are treated with respect and
dignity.”

“A team from Apple is independently evaluating the steps they are taking to
address these tragic events, and we will continue our ongoing inspections of the
facilities where our products are made,” he said.

Dell said it was also looking into Foxconn’s situation.

“Any reports of poor working conditions in Dell’s supply chain are
investigated and, if warranted, appropriate action is taken,” Dell spokesman
Jess Blackburn said via e-mail.

“We expect our suppliers to employ the same high standards we do in our own
facilities,” Blackburn said.

Nokia Corp spokeswoman Louise Ingram declined to comment on specific suicide
cases.

“Nokia firmly believes that all employees have the right to ethical and legal
treatment. We set strict requirements to all our suppliers, including Foxconn,
and follow-up on them regularly,” she said.

Meanwhile, Foxconn yesterday reportedly urged its workers to promise in writing
not to kill themselves.

China’s Southern Metropolis Daily newspaper published a photograph of a memo
with a Foxconn letterhead that it said all employees were being asked to sign.

“I promise never to hurt myself or others in an extreme manner,” said a
section of the memo seen by the paper.

It also asked employees to allow the company to send them to a medical
institution if they appeared to be in an “abnormal mental or physical state for
the protection of myself and others.”

One Foxconn worker told the newspaper he had refused to sign because the company
was seeking the right to institutionalize employees.

“If I bicker with my supervisor, will I be sent to a mental hospital?” he
said.

Ahead of yesterday’s media tour of the Shenzhen site, the parents and sister of
Ma Xiangqian, who committed suicide in January, wept and knelt on the ground at
the gates, the father’s tears dripping on a picture of his son. Behind them
were signs displaying the fruits of the workers’ labor — Hewlett-Packard
computer screens, Sony TVs and Nokia handsets.

Foxconn official Louis Woo, one of the tour leaders, said the company was
starting a 24-hour helpline and planned to divide workers into groups of under
50, to counter isolation.

“The number one priority has to be to try to stop this spate of suicides,” Woo
said.

Part of the problem, he said, is that a “pretty high number” of employees are
aged from 18 to 24 — the prime age for suicides.

Many are also far away from their homes in remote parts of China for the first
time, he said.

The company was also said to be hanging safety nets around buildings at the
Shenzhen complex.

The Chinese government’s Taiwan Affairs Office said Beijing was working with
the company and local authorities to implement “effective measures” against
more suicides.

“We are deeply sorry for the Foxconn employees who jumped to their death,” a
spokesman at the office, Yang Yi (楊毅), told a news conference.

But beyond the factory gates, workers told of long hours, harsh supervisors and
low pay. A 21-year-old employee from Guangxi told the Hong Kong’s South China
Morning Post how she worked 12-hours a day, six days a week.

“The atmosphere inside our workplaces is so tight and depressing that we’re
not allowed to speak to each other for 12 hours or you’ll be reproached by your
supervisors,” she said.

Another worker, from Hunan Province, complained that the assembly line moved too
fast and she had to check thousands of motherboards for electronic gadgets every
day.

The 22-year-old’s monthly salary, including overtime, was 2,000 yuan (US$300)
— about the same as the US price of a 32 gigabyte iPhone.

“I feel like I have an empty life and work like a machine,” she told the
paper.

But there was no shortage of people trying to get through the factory gates.
Around 8,000 people apply to work at the factory every day, Foxconn spokesman
Liu Kun (劉坤) told the state-run China Daily.

http://micgadget.com/4042/shanghai-expo-german-pavilion-might-have-to-close-for-\
an-indefinite-period/

In Shanghai Expo, queues to get into the pavilions are very difficult, basically
it takes for hours of standing in line. According to daily S�ddeutsche Zeitung
reported on Tuesday, the misbehavior of Chinese visitors while queue had caused
the German Pavilion's commissioner sent a letter to the expo organizer in order
to request for additional security. Otherwise, the pavilion will lead to
closure. What is this all about? Actually, this cause by some Chinese Visitors
shouted out `na cui, na cui' (Nazi) at pavilion staffs. And, "Nazi" is a word
from German, which describes a person who uses his power in a malicious way or
someone who holds unreasonable views about race is also termed Nazi.

"I have personally observed workers at our pavilion suffer unbearable behavior
from the visitors, including shocking insults and physical attacks," general
commissioner for the German pavilion Dietmar Schmitz wrote on May 2.

Furthermore, the workers from the German pavilion actually had called the
Chinese emergency services on several occasions to break up fights and control
the crowd, the press spokeswoman Marion Conrady told the paper, adding that more
security will been patrolling the area for several days. The paper also stated
the skirmishes have also occurred at the English and Swiss pavilions.

Why has the board been silient for so long?

For those of you who would like to know what EXACTLY is America's One China
Policy, here is a good direct evidence(not an editorial or research article, but
the actual skinny), see page 12-13 on Taiwan.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB66/ch-40.pdf

To sum up:

- US maintains that Taiwan's status is legally undetermined and will be silent
on this position after diplomatic normalization with China.
- US will withdraw the troops from Taiwan and not allow Japanese troops from
moving into Taiwan.
- US will NOT support "TWO Chinas" or "One China One Taiwan." But US will NOT
prevent Taiwanese independence as its position is to let the political reality
to naturally evolve.
- US will replace ROC with PRC in UN and recognize China as the sole legitimate
government of China.
- US will accept any peaceful outcome agreed by both parties.
- US views recognition of Taiwan's unification of China as an ULTIMATE goal of
Nixon Administration policy.

I am actually more active on facebook now. You can check out the forums I
administer:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2204497989

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2204497989#!/pages/Chen-Shui-Bian-%E9%99%B\
3%E6%B0%B4%E6%89%81/48051774612

this is my profile
http://www.facebook.com/mafiagodfather69

--- In taiwanprideinternational@yahoogroups.com, "tweeti" <nodamegumi@...>
wrote:
>
> Why has the board been silient for so long?
>