You still do not get it is your entire Changing Earth Creationist scheme
On the solar data set it is not just the older ones but there is no general
decreasing trend, justt the typical variations of experimental error.
Further more backwards projections of this data eve the new ones place the
sun at the Earth no earlier than Moses' time and so fails as evidence for
anything other than experimental error.
The Pioneer anomaly is readily explained in two young Earth cosmologies and
so it is no evidence for YOUR Changing Earth Creationist scheme.
Galactic redshift are readily explained in both old and young Earth
cosmologies and so it is no evidence for YOUR Changing Earth Creationist
The scull shapes you mentioned only require the person to be 4-5 hounded
years old not eons old.
YOUR interpretation of the Bible is based on you unproven assumption that
ancient people did not have the same sense of tine that we do and that past
days and years were some how longer than today. To think when the ancient
Israelites read evening and morning six times in Genesis 1 that they would
think of any thing but the normal day/ night cycle of Earth is ludicrous. To
suggest that days and years were some how longer in a past smaller solar
system is not only without any bases but contrary to observed fact.
Including the observed fact that the rotation of the Earth is actually
slowing not speeding up.
YOUR Changing Earth Creationist scheme also denies that God has preserved
His word in transmission and translation. If the Bible is as mistranslated
as your scheme requires then we do not have the word of God in English and
our faith is in vain being based on a lie, however contrary to the
requirements of YOUR scheme God has preserved his word in transmission and
translation into English in the King James.
Your Changing Earth Creationist scheme has proven to be just another
perversion of the Biblical account.
------ Charles Creager Jr.
Genesis Science <http://gscim.com/
Creation Science Talk <http://creationsciencetalk.blogspot.com/
Behalf Of Victor McAllister
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: [CreationTalk] Amazingly Close Planets Challenge Planet
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 6:42 AM, Chuck <chuckpc@...
> Chuck wrote:
> I look at the solar parallax data on you blog and the best explanation is
> experimental error. If it indicated an actual decrease it would be more
> consistently down. However the actual measurements over the last 400 years
> show the ups and downs that is typical of experimental error.
> Some of the early ones produce problematic figures for the distance to the
> sun. The one by Arstarchus of Samos in the 3rd century BC place the sun at
> just 5 million miles from Earth not only is that deadly close but it
> represents an increase of 370 times the moon's distance in 22 centuries
> that's a rate of 16.8 times the moon's distance per century. That would
> place at the Earth's surface 23.2 centuries ago or the 4th century BC. I
> think we can both agree that this is way too short. The slowest rate that
> can be derived from this data is from 1672 - 2004 which produces a rate of
> 47,229 km per year, so projecting back from 154.08 million km pot the sun
> the Earth 3,262 years ago or 1,263 BC which once again is way too short a
> time. As a result your model fails on this point alone.
> It fails in another way as well and that is the fact that if the solar
> system were expanding the years would have been shorter in the past and
> longer in the past. The length of a year would be getting longer not
> Thus your model fails completely in that you own "supporting data"
> inconsistent and impossible results.
> ------ Charles Creager Jr.
Changing Earth Creationists are not like Young or Old Earth creationists
because we start with the issue of first principles.
When analyzing natural history, we must start with first principles and
interpret both the Bible and the visible data with the principle used by
the biblical writers. They saw change in the very places we use our
contrary principle to claim constants. There is one place where knowledge
is available to all (Psalm 19) the plural heavens - the spreading place.
The only place we can directly compare the past to the present is in
galactic history. It is in galactic history that we confirm what the
Apostle Paul stated, the the creation is enslaved to change, that this
degeneration is natural (it actively obeys in an orderly manner the command
to degenerate). Paul used two together verbs to illustrate how this works.
Things that change together change relationally. Light reveals truth and
exposes error because everything that is visible is light. It is light, not
mathematics, that shows that every atom is changing itself as it ages.
1. God continued to form the Sun, Moon and stars and continued to place
them in the spreading place. We observe in galactic history how galaxies
started out naked, without starry arms. At closer ranges we observe globs
in equally spaced chains coming out of the cores. In nearby galaxies we
occasionally observe jets coming out of point sources, taking up more
volume and changing their spectral frequencies as matter takes form. This
exactly fits the text of Genesis 1 & 2 and Isaiah. We observe how galaxies
grew into huge, local, dusty growth spirals, exactly as the literal text of
the Bible states repeatedly, not just in Genesis. What is visible shows
that none of science's definitions or laws are valid. What is visible so
clearly contradicts the scientific assumption (that the properties of
matter are fixed) that they have invented a magical, invisible universe so
that they do not have to believe the light from long ago.
2. There is not a single constant visible anywhere in the vast universe.
Every atomic clock is clocking a different frequency from modern atoms.
Even when we send calibrated clocks to the distant parts of the solar
system, their clock signals transmitted yesterday, change frequency
relative to our clocks of the moment with approximately the same ratio as
the clocks in billions of galaxies. It is impossible to invent precision
operationally defined units for time, mass or energy and other measuring
units (except for angles) without assuming that the properties of matter
are fixed, not emerging. All modern scientists have a first law, that all
things remain the same and reference everything in the universe to this
assumption (2 Peter 3:3 - 6).
3. Our Sun a few millennium ago was not the same as it is today. It shone
at lower (infrared) frequencies, it was smaller and its inertial properties
were not the same and all the planets orbited closer to the Sun. How do we
know? We can see in galactic history how every bit of matter keeps on
changing as the space stars took up, their inertial properties and their
orbits kept on changing as galaxies grew from the insides outwards. Most
astronomers claim that the stars in the arms of sprial galaxies are
rotating backwards from the sweep of the arms and the arms were formed by
undetectable density waves. Yet the history of how the arms formed is
visible at many ranges. In spirals, the star stream orbits do not close,
they open outwards as the streams of star globs continue to accelerate out
(relative to earlier circuits). The biblical God says He is the one who
calls the stars to come out in unbroken continuity, so none go missing.
4. I agree with you that we might be able to disregard the parallax of the
earliest astronomers. They did not measure with micrometer eyepieces like
Flamsteed did in 1687. Why has the optical parallax continued to decrease
even after clocks established the canonical distance to the Sun with radar
50 years ago? Why do even clocks manufactured on Earth continue to
accelerate, relative to today's precision clocks, when they transmit from
the past as they distance themselves from Earth. The Pioneers lost 1.5
seconds in 7.5 years as they got farther from earth.
5. The western concept of time is visibly false. You say years in the past
would have been shorter. I am showing you why years and days from the past
were longer, exactly as the Scriptures so plainly states in Genesis 47:9.
This is why Job could list the geological markers for the few days of life
during the dinosaur age, and we confirm his geological markers (and the
shape of their skulls). Evidently Job really did live for geological ages
in few days as he describes. There are no fixed references. Every atom is
changing itself as it ages, exactly as the Apostle Paul states - the
creation is enslaved to change and this is orderly and together.
You can't get there from here. We must go back to the issue of assumptions.
Science was founded on assumptions invented by Catholic friars in their
efforts to solve the problem of change that the Greeks were unable to
solve. Scientists have built a great edifice on this one assumption. They
measure things that only exist if the assumption is valid, things like
seconds, masses, energies. No one has detected a shred of visible evidence
for any of these things. They only exists in the mathematical world of
symbolical reality, if the scientific first law is false.
Every attempt to bend the Bible to fit western science will fail. The more
we tailor the bible to fit science, the more we drive people away from a
literal understanding of creation. Yet God tells us when our obedience is
complete, we will use His word to destroy the great castles of speculative
reasoning raised up against the knowledge of God. He wants us to triumph
for His glory, not to tailor the Bible to fit the world's way of reasoning.
Why did GOd make the universe the way He did? He made it mysterious for our
glory ( 1 Cor 2:7).
The triumph of the Word of God overs science will happen with evidence, not
speculations. This month the Europeans announced start moneys for the ELT
telescope in Chile. James Webb, although much delayed, may eventually
launch and it should see the creation age clearly (if it works). ALMA is
already operationally and new antennas are coming on line. It visualizes
the creation age in microwaves. The more scientists see, the more they have
invent myths about invisible things. Why? They obfuscate the history of the
plural heavens exactly as Peter predicted. Why? They have a first law, an
inflexible dogma that atoms are perpetual motion engines. It is galactic
history that will show how completely our God will make foolish the wise of
this age, exactly as He promised. What glory will be His when the pride of
man is laid low and the Lord alone is magnified.
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